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Speaker 1: On the doecast.

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Speaker 2: The questions asked if movies have women and them, are

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Speaker 2: all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they

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Speaker 2: have individualism? It's the patriarchy Zephy and Beast start changing

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Speaker 2: it with the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 1: Caitlyn, Yes, Asla, you got it. Uh, do not cite

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Speaker 1: the Deep podcast to me, which I was there when

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Speaker 1: it was recorded. Mm hmmm, I wrote that one down.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you. Actually we should pause because I'm

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Speaker 1: assuming the listener is applauding.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, like uplorious laughter.

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Speaker 1: I'm like Cynthia Arrivo.

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Speaker 3: Glorious get it, it's a lion.

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Speaker 1: Yes'm I'm doing. I'm doing what Cynthia Arriva does at

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Speaker 1: the end of the Wizard and I it literally pause

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Speaker 1: for applause, assuming that everyone is cheering and she's right,

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Speaker 1: and so am I.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you, applause, applause, clap, clap, clap, and now

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Speaker 3: calm down, everyone, settle down.

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Speaker 1: Easy, easy, plot incoming. Welcome to the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 3: My name is Jamie, my name is Caitlin, and this

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Speaker 3: is our the Chronicles of Narnia, The Lion, the Witch,

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Speaker 3: and the Wardrobe episode.

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Speaker 1: Get ready because we're all going to become Christians today,

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Speaker 1: We're going to become lion fearing whatever. So this is

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Speaker 1: our podcast where we take a look at your favorite

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Speaker 1: movies using an intersectional feminist lens and the Bechdel Test

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Speaker 1: as a jumping off point. But Kitlin, what the hell

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Speaker 1: is that? I'll tell you what. C. S. Lewis wouldn't

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Speaker 1: give a rats ass, But let's let the people know.

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Speaker 3: Sure, it is a media metric created by our best

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Speaker 3: friend in the whole wide world, Alison Bechdel. There are

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Speaker 3: many versions of the test. The one that we use

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Speaker 3: is do two characters of a marginalized gender have names?

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Speaker 3: Do they speak to each other? And is their conversation

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Speaker 3: about something other than a man or a male lion?

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Speaker 1: Exactly? Yes, Liam Neeson lion, and we'll talk about Lion Nissan,

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Speaker 1: we'll talk about Lion Nison. Is that anything was very

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Speaker 1: impactful to me. It's so funny when I was trying

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Speaker 1: to think of what is another I feel like we've

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Speaker 1: talked about it recently. A movie that's trying to make

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Speaker 1: you religious but then just ends up making you horny.

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Speaker 1: Because that is my experience of this movie. This movie

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Speaker 1: I did not successfully make me believe in like the Bible,

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Speaker 1: but it did successfully make me horny. I'm trying it'll

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Speaker 1: come to me. But there's another like important movie text

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Speaker 1: to me that is ultimately trying to be like Jesus

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Speaker 1: is real, right, and you're just sort of like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I was I mean, was it Jesus Christ Superstar? Oh? Yes, okay, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it is like something that you're like, oh, I'm supposed

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Speaker 1: to be thinking about the Bible, but I'm actually just

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Speaker 1: thinking about having sex with Judas kind of the opposite

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Speaker 1: intent of the intended effect. Sure, sure, anyways, this is

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Speaker 1: our Chronicles of Narnia episode. If you are a member

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Speaker 1: of our Patreon aka Matreon, and you should be yes,

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Speaker 1: this is a This is a quick plug. Five dollars

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Speaker 1: a month gets you two bonus episodes at the Metical

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Speaker 1: Cast a month on a theme of yours or sometimes

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Speaker 1: are choosing depending on the month. There's over almost two

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Speaker 1: hundred episodes of backlog, so if you have if there's

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Speaker 1: a movie we haven't covered on the main feed, there

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Speaker 1: is a really good chance we have covered it over

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Speaker 1: on the matred And it's a very fun community. We've

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Speaker 1: been doing it forever and yeah, it's the holiday season,

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Speaker 1: give a gift to yourself, give a gift to someone else.

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Speaker 1: But so we this the genesis of this episode.

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Speaker 3: Hmm, yeah, exactly, that's that's a part of the Bible.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, holding for applause once again.

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Speaker 3: Yeah again, Calm down, Calm down, everybody.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, more revelations in coming, folks. Okay, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: tap up pretty soon, because I really know.

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Speaker 3: I was like, can I name another book of the Bible? No?

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Speaker 1: I can't, Copeter, No.

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Speaker 3: John, John? Is there a John in there?

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Speaker 1: There is? There's definitely a John. Yeah. Name It's like whatever,

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Speaker 1: It's just like names of the Bible. It's like calling

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Speaker 1: role in a second grade classroom in like nineteen ninety five. Basically. Yeah, anyways,

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Speaker 1: what we're Oh, so this began over on the matread.

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Speaker 1: We were thinking of some wintery holiday coded movies that

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Speaker 1: we haven't covered over the years, and Narnia. There was

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Speaker 1: just such a ridiculous appetite for this movie that we

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Speaker 1: were like, we got to bring it to the people.

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Speaker 1: Much like the Word of Christ, we need to bring

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Speaker 1: it to the people.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we're missionaries in that way. We are, we're podcast missionaries.

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Speaker 3: Oh god, you know what I bet that there are

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Speaker 3: people who say that with complete sincerity.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well we'll get we'll get into it. I listened.

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Speaker 1: I had to listen to a lot of Christian podcasts

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Speaker 1: to prepare for this, oh my, and some were actually

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Speaker 1: very helpful in any case. So this started on the Matreon.

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Speaker 1: So we're we're covering this here, but we are just

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Speaker 1: to close the loop on the plug covering two other

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Speaker 1: holiday classics over on the Matreon that our community really

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Speaker 1: wanted to hear about. Those being The Family Stone Rip

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Speaker 1: Diane Keaton and Black Christmas Rip. I have to assume

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Speaker 1: a good chunk of that cast is a pretty old movie.

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Speaker 1: It was made in the seventies. So yeah, but two

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Speaker 1: movies that I don't know, Like, we've been talking about

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Speaker 1: this a lot as we approach our ten year anniversary.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of movies that you would think we

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Speaker 1: would have covered by now, but but we haven't, and

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Speaker 1: we're having a great time. This movie included indeed, Caitlin,

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Speaker 1: what is your history with this movie? And also just

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Speaker 1: the Narnia Expanded Universe.

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Speaker 3: Sure. So at my house growing up, we had the

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Speaker 3: box set of all of the c s. Lewis Narnia books.

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Speaker 1: Same same is the one that you have at your apartment,

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Speaker 1: your childhood copy, because I think I had the same set.

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Speaker 3: It is not my childhood copy. I don't know where

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Speaker 3: or when I acquired this, but there is a little

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Speaker 3: price tag on it that says eighty cents damn. So

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Speaker 3: I think this must have been, like.

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Speaker 1: That's the going price for the word of Christ. Brutal, brutal.

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Speaker 1: This is the one with like the little like aerials

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Speaker 1: shot of like.

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Speaker 3: Mister Tumnus, right, yeah, and he's got his little umbrella

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Speaker 3: and his packages. Yeah. I think this was maybe purchased

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Speaker 3: at a yard sale or something for eighties. I don't

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Speaker 3: know why it.

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Speaker 1: Only cost eighty cents salesrep, but that, like whatever, that

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Speaker 1: was my childhood I had the box set. I don't

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Speaker 1: know I have that, but for some reason, I think

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Speaker 1: it was a street book. I have all seven in

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Speaker 1: a paperback with Tilda Swinton on the cover, and so

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Speaker 1: that was what I used for prep and it felt

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Speaker 1: good nice. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So I did read the line The Witch and the

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Speaker 3: Wardrobe when I was a kid, I don't remember what age,

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Speaker 3: and then the the only other book in the series

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Speaker 3: that I read was Prince Caspian, and I remember liking

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Speaker 3: it more than I liked The Lion, The Witch and

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Speaker 3: the Wardrobe. Really yeah, but I couldn't tell you a

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Speaker 3: single thing about it. I have no idea what it

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Speaker 3: was about. I can tell you I was just like,

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Speaker 3: I think I like this more than the other one.

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Speaker 3: It is more like adventury, I feel like it is. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: Prince Caspian is good.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I wanted to so for listeners, just

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Speaker 1: for context, like this whatever. I mean, like we're not apologizing.

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Speaker 1: This is people right there, like doctoral feces on C. S.

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Speaker 1: Lewis and these books. There are so many things we

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Speaker 1: could have done to prepare for this, and we just

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Speaker 1: you know, it's a weekly show. We weren't able to

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Speaker 1: do all of it. I wish I had had time

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Speaker 1: to rewatch because I'm honestly not sure if I've seen

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Speaker 1: Prince Caspian. I know I've seen Voyage of the Dawn

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Speaker 1: Treader because maybe Will Poulter is in that. Oh Andy, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this was just a series that made me very as

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Speaker 1: a kid. So, okay, so you read you read two of.

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Speaker 3: The books, Yes, but I remembered The Lion, the Witch

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Speaker 3: and the Wardrobe and its whole narrative far better because

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Speaker 3: I think it just like the cultural osmosis of this

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Speaker 3: story is like just way more in the zeitgeist. Sure,

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Speaker 3: so I was pretty familiar with the story going into

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Speaker 3: watching this movie the two thousand and five adaptation. What

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Speaker 3: I had never seen, and I don't think had ever

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Speaker 3: even knew existed was the nineteen eighty eight BBC Mini series.

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Speaker 1: I am so curious why this was the route. This

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Speaker 1: was your this was your over the top prep route.

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Speaker 1: What drew you to this series?

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Speaker 3: I'll tell you why. Okay, the comments on the Matreon

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Speaker 3: poll when it was clear that this movie was like

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Speaker 3: winning by a large margin.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, to the point where we were like, we can't

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Speaker 1: even pay all this. It feels wrong.

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Speaker 3: Right right a lot of people and the comments were like, well,

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Speaker 3: you also have to talk about the nineteen eighty eight

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Speaker 3: BBC mini series, And I was like, what, I had

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Speaker 3: no idea that was even a thing because I grew

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Speaker 3: up in America. God damn it, I'm not watching BBC.

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Speaker 1: None of my business.

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Speaker 3: And so I took it upon myself to watch this

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Speaker 3: BBC adaptation and I had the time of my life. Really,

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Speaker 3: this damn thing. The costumes. It I would say, it's

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Speaker 3: not like good, but it's so it's can'ty, it's ridiculous.

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Speaker 3: The effects are horrible, the costumes are horrible.

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Speaker 1: Every clip you sent me more baffling than the last.

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Speaker 1: I do want to watch this because it sounds like

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Speaker 1: it just it just is like, you know, we have

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Speaker 1: forty dollars, let's see what we can do.

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Speaker 3: It seems simultaneously very low budget and very high budget

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Speaker 3: because they're like the costumes and the sets seemed expensive.

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Speaker 3: But then also the camera does not move. They put

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Speaker 3: the camera in one place and then they never like

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Speaker 3: there are no dolly shots, there's no crane shots, there's

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Speaker 3: no like maybe a pan or a tilt here and there,

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Speaker 3: but it's just like this stationary camera and then stuff

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Speaker 3: happens in front of it.

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Speaker 1: Huh.

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Speaker 3: Anyway, So as I was watching that, I was simultaneously

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Speaker 3: rereading the book. Yeah, so I would like read a

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Speaker 3: few chapters of the book and then watch the like

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Speaker 3: corresponding episode of the mini series to prep for this,

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Speaker 3: And I did that about ten days ago and whatever.

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Speaker 3: I'll say a few more things maybe about the BBC adaptation,

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Speaker 3: but it's a very very loyal adaptation. It's basically identical

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Speaker 3: story beats. Most of the dialogue from the BBC version

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Speaker 3: is directly like word for word, lifted from the book.

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Speaker 3: So it's a very, very very faithful adaptation. But anyway,

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Speaker 3: so I'm jumping all over the place. I read the

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Speaker 3: book as a kid. I saw this movie, the two

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Speaker 3: thousand and five adaptation, around the time it came out,

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Speaker 3: I think, probably in theaters.

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Speaker 1: Okay. I was like, that's.

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Speaker 3: Fun, but it's no Lord of the Rings.

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Speaker 1: So well, which and these these two writers are very connected.

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Speaker 3: They're BFFs.

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Speaker 1: Yes, the boys they're and they're always bitching at each

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Speaker 1: other about something or other. Did you know that C. S.

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Speaker 1: Lewis is the basis for Oh my god, what is

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Speaker 1: the Lord of the Rings? Tree character tree tree Beard,

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Speaker 1: tree Beard? That's C. S.

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Speaker 3: Lewis. Oh fun, okay, yeah, And Gerard Telking's like, look,

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Speaker 3: I think you're annoying.

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Speaker 1: You're loud at annoying. This is you. You're a tree.

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Speaker 1: And he's like, oh, that's pretty awesome. King. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Anyway, so the movie I thought was fine. The main

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Speaker 3: thing I remembered was Tilda Swinton.

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Speaker 1: Which oh so impactful.

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Speaker 3: Tell me about it. Yeah, so I saw the movie

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Speaker 3: once around the time it came out. I watched it

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Speaker 3: again with our friend Bryant last year around the holiday season,

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Speaker 3: and then I watched it again twice to prep for

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Speaker 3: this episode. So that is my CS Lewis Narnia experience.

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Speaker 1: Awesome. What about yours, Genie? So I believe I was Hmm,

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Speaker 1: I read all the books. I had the books as

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Speaker 1: a kid. I have like a very strong memory. I

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Speaker 1: think it would have been before the movie came out,

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Speaker 1: maybe even in anticipation of the movie, either right before

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Speaker 1: or right after. I'm pretty sure before though, we would

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Speaker 1: go up to Maine to see my grandma, and I

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Speaker 1: really felt the need to hide from my family as

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Speaker 1: much as possible. And this was a big deal for

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Speaker 1: me because when we went up to Maine to visit

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Speaker 1: my grandma, I could have my own room that had

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Speaker 1: a door, and at my house I had my own room,

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Speaker 1: but it didn't have a door, and so any level

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Speaker 1: of privacy, I would go into a room, bring a

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Speaker 1: bajillion books with me, close the door, lock it, and

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Speaker 1: really just come out for food. And it was my

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Speaker 1: My family really did not like this quality helped me,

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Speaker 1: but but I you know, I didn't. I didn't want

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Speaker 1: to hang. I wanted to read. I remember there was

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Speaker 1: just like a trip where I locked myself in that

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Speaker 1: room and I read. Also had Narnia books.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I had the time of my life doing it.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure I missed out on some really beautiful family memories.

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Speaker 1: We'll never know, but I remember reading all of them.

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Speaker 1: I definitely like language and the wardrobe the best. I

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Speaker 1: don't have a really like descent, and and they're a

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Speaker 1: couple that I'm like, this one is boring. I read

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Speaker 1: through some of the synopsis just like jogged my memory.

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Speaker 1: I like, you know, I'm I'm kind of like I

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Speaker 1: like the ones with the Pevinc's in it and the

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Speaker 1: ones without. When it when we start to stray away

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Speaker 1: from the Pevinc's, I'm maybe not as interested.

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Speaker 3: But it took me forever to realize that that's their

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Speaker 3: last name. I was like what, and then it yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's the four kids, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, when it's not the four kids, And like

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Speaker 1: you get into there's like a character named Jill Pole

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Speaker 1: who comes in at some point. There's a character named

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Speaker 1: Polly there's used to scrub that's a little bl polter

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Speaker 1: character that's their cousin. Okay, so there's like this whole

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Speaker 1: expanded universe of kids because there are like Narnia, I

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Speaker 1: don't know whatever, we'll talk about it. Because Narnia has

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Speaker 1: deep ties into like Christian storytelling and biblical storytelling, which

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Speaker 1: I don't think I was really aware of when I

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Speaker 1: was reading them.

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Speaker 3: I definitely was not.

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Speaker 1: I think maybe after the movie came out. So when

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Speaker 1: the movie came out, I was twelve and anything would

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Speaker 1: make me horny, and so I I think I never

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Speaker 1: I'm so surprised I haven't brought it up before. Maybe

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Speaker 1: I did years ago or something. But my two like

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Speaker 1: important horny posters I had as a kid were the

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Speaker 1: Alfred Molina Spiderman two poster duh, easy of course. But

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Speaker 1: I also had the Chronicles of Narnia poster with the

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Speaker 1: big as land on top. And I would kiss Asa

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Speaker 1: before I would go to bed. But it wasn't it

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Speaker 1: wasn't a sexual thing. It was like I just respec

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Speaker 1: to him so much. I don't know what it was.

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Speaker 1: I would kiss the poster before mead. That's all I

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Speaker 1: can say.

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Speaker 3: Incredible.

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Speaker 1: Uh, Yeah, I had a crush on basically everyone in

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Speaker 1: this movie. Even though it's kind of boring, it is

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Speaker 1: like a very viby, like you're asleep kind of but

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Speaker 1: you're also awake. I would kiss Aslan. I kind of

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Speaker 1: had a crush on Edmund, even though he's a menace

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Speaker 1: to society.

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Speaker 3: Oh this little shit.

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Speaker 1: Definitely had a crush on Telda Swinton and definitely had

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Speaker 1: a crush on James McAvoy, mister Tumnus. I was like,

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Speaker 1: I was all in on James McAvoy, mister Tumnus. I

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Speaker 1: was like, what if I was the little angenue that

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Speaker 1: met mister Tumnus And then he was like, you want

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Speaker 1: to be my best friend? Like it was, I know

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Speaker 1: I'm not alone there. I know I'm not alone there.

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Speaker 1: Do not contact me if you feel similarly, but you

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Speaker 1: know you were seen.

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Speaker 3: Sure.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I had a crush on everyone in the movie.

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Speaker 1: Really liked it. But then I guess it's like I

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Speaker 1: think of this movie series as like the first movie

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Speaker 1: was really big, and then the second ones I like,

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Speaker 1: I don't even think I saw the second ones in theaters.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they like diminishing returns on the sequels, and.

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Speaker 1: Then they didn't finish. I mean, and now I'm very

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Speaker 1: curious because Greta Gerwig is making a huge Narnia movie

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Speaker 1: that's gonna come out next year. Yeah, and you know

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Speaker 1: I'll be there. I'll be there. I'm curious what she

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Speaker 1: does with it. I don't think you can really top

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Speaker 1: James McAvoy, mister Tumnus, but I invited her to try.

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Speaker 1: I invited her to try, and so for for my

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Speaker 1: prep for this, I revisited the movie. I had reread

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Speaker 1: the book last year, but I went more in on

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Speaker 1: the UH symbolism side and the C. S Lewis lore side,

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Speaker 1: so we can sort of talk through it a little bit.

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Speaker 1: I feel there's again C. S Lewis, there's just like

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Speaker 1: so much stuff written about him, and with a short

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Speaker 1: amount of time. It's actually weirdly hard to research because

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Speaker 1: a lot of the sources you find are very Christian

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Speaker 1: and so they're is like an extreme tilt to the

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Speaker 1: way his work is presented. So it's hard to find

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Speaker 1: what I would consider to be like slightly more objective sources.

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Speaker 1: But I did my best.

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Speaker 3: Sure. C.

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Speaker 1: S Lewis, I'll tell you what a weird man. A

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Speaker 1: weird weird man. It's hard for And also, like listeners,

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Speaker 1: if you have. You know, there's been many biographies written

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Speaker 1: of him, so these are just broad strokes. My takeaway

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Speaker 1: was that he is prejudiced in many of the ways

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Speaker 1: you would expect for someone born in eighteen ninety nine,

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Speaker 1: but not in all of the ways you would expect.

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Speaker 1: I think that the main things are and they're also

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Speaker 1: you know, prejudices that bear out in Christianity where there's

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Speaker 1: like something called like the C. S. Lewis Foundation or whatever,

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Speaker 1: like it's a Christian organization where they're still trying to

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Speaker 1: figure out whether they're accepting gay people or not, like

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Speaker 1: that kind of like religious homophobia. Like, yeah, that does

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Speaker 1: feel present. And as we'll talk about, his views on

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Speaker 1: women fluctuate throughout his life in a way that is

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Speaker 1: kind of interesting, okay. And then there's just some fun

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Speaker 1: facts that I was like, hmm, can I tell you

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Speaker 1: by CS Lewis fact that really I was like, what's

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Speaker 1: going on there?

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Speaker 3: Please? Okay.

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Speaker 1: So his mother passed away when he was quite young.

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Speaker 1: I think he was like ten eleven something like that.

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Speaker 1: Then he because he was born in eighteen ninety nine,

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Speaker 1: he of course is drafted into World War One, makes

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Speaker 1: friends with this guy named Patty and Patty and him

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Speaker 1: make a pact, and Patty is like, if I die

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Speaker 1: in World War One, will you make sure that my

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Speaker 1: mother is taken care of? And C. S Lewis is like, ah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't have a mom. Like that's really nice. Then unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: rip Patty, Patty dies at war, and then C. S

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Speaker 1: Lewis enters a three decade long romantic relationship with Patty's mom.

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Speaker 1: Patty's mom. It's it's a it's a lot going on.

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Speaker 1: It's like yeah, and and kind of what I was

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Speaker 1: enjoying as I because I watched a like whatever, like

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Speaker 1: any biography on C. S Lewis, I read a lot

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Speaker 1: about his life, and really, no one knows the right

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Speaker 1: way to frame this because it's so weird where it's

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Speaker 1: like they're two consentic adults, but it feels pretty fucking weird.

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Speaker 1: But anyways, he he was twenty one, she was forty six,

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Speaker 1: and they were together until her death. Wow, so he

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Speaker 1: just was hooking up with his friend. But I'm just like,

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Speaker 1: certainly that was not what Patty had in mind.

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Speaker 3: But he's not what he meant when he said, take

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Speaker 3: care of my mom?

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Speaker 1: Are we? Yeah? Take care of her?

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Speaker 3: Come on, wink.

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Speaker 1: I just don't you know, I is it? You know,

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Speaker 1: I guess he's not around to complain, but I it

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Speaker 1: was like kind of disrespectful to Patty to be like,

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Speaker 1: I'll take care of your mom already. Whatever. You know.

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Speaker 1: It seems like they were happy. And then later in

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Speaker 1: his life C. S. Lewis he got married again. Oh yeah.

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Speaker 1: The other work of C. S. Lewis that I've read

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Speaker 1: that I actually really liked was he wrote this very

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Speaker 1: short book after his his wife. But he was never

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Speaker 1: married to Patty's mom. They just had a thing for

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Speaker 1: thirty years. And then he did get married not too long,

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Speaker 1: like when he was older, to this woman that a

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Speaker 1: lot of people were like, is that That's why? I

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Speaker 1: was like, he kind of got cooler as he got older.

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Speaker 1: He married divorced Jewish American woman, which basically everyone in

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Speaker 1: his life was like, you can't do that, and he's like,

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Speaker 1: watch me, but you're so Christian, right right? And then

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Speaker 1: like he was like a hardcore Christian and yet I mean,

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Speaker 1: like many Christians, was very lucy goosey of like what

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00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:57,440
Speaker 1: applied to him and what didn't sure, But in ways

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Speaker 1: that seemed mainly I mean, whatever we'll get into He

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Speaker 1: is certainly guilty of a fair amount of misogyny, but

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Speaker 1: in this marriage, it seemed like it was very happy

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Speaker 1: and that she was I don't know, like it seemed

401
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Speaker 1: really lovely. And he wrote a book when she died

402
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Speaker 1: pretty suddenly and is called a Grief Observed, and it's

403
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Speaker 1: very similar to like Joan Didion's like The Year of

404
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Speaker 1: Magical Thinking, like very written like in real time after

405
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Speaker 1: losing his spouse. And I just think it's really beautiful.

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Speaker 1: So if you're in grief mode, I would recommend it.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, weird guy, we'll talk more about him. That

408
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Speaker 1: was so I kind of went into the Lewis zone.

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Speaker 1: I mean it sounds like you had more fun.

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Speaker 3: Honestly, yeah, I did none of that, So thank you

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Speaker 3: for doing that research. I really just watched that BBC

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Speaker 3: mini series and laughed my ass off anytime mister Beaver.

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Speaker 1: Was on screen.

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Speaker 3: He's still big, he's human size, souse, it's a human

415
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Speaker 3: in a beaver costume, just waddling around being like I

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Speaker 3: found them.

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Speaker 1: I've found the Sons Adam and the daughters of Eve.

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Speaker 3: And you're just like, what is going on?

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Speaker 1: God? What a gift? But a gift. Well, let's take

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Speaker 1: a quick break and we'll come back with the recap.

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Speaker 1: And we're back, okay.

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Speaker 3: Here is the recap of the line, The Witch and

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Speaker 3: the Wardrobe two thousand and five. It is World War two.

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Speaker 3: So four children, Peter, Susan, Edmund and Lucy are sent

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Speaker 3: from London during the Blitz to safety in the English

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Speaker 3: countryside to stay with a distant relative called the Professor,

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Speaker 3: who lives in this huge, old downton abby ass mansion,

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Speaker 3: and the children start to settle in. Peter is the eldest,

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Speaker 3: so he's like, you know, the responsible leader of the group.

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Speaker 3: Lucy is the youngest, so she's the baby. She wants

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Speaker 3: to play games all the time.

432
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:18,639
Speaker 1: Lucy is a legend. I love Lucy.

433
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:20,919
Speaker 3: Wow, you love Lucy?

434
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:24,439
Speaker 1: I wow, no one's ever said that before. I love Lucy.

435
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:28,200
Speaker 1: I also just remembered I loved the actress who played her.

436
00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:31,160
Speaker 1: I just follows her on Instagram the other day. She's thriving,

437
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:37,320
Speaker 1: she's like bisexual icon, winning like theater awards in London.

438
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:40,919
Speaker 1: She's killing it nice. But little Georgie Henley, Oh, I

439
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:44,760
Speaker 1: loved her. Her and her little Bob. Come on, she's cute.

440
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:45,639
Speaker 1: She's so cute.

441
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:50,240
Speaker 3: Then there's Edmund, the second youngest.

442
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:53,760
Speaker 1: Who is now basically like a what I always forget

443
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 1: the like the names of the British Conservative Party. He's

444
00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:01,840
Speaker 1: basically he that actor Scandar Keynes is now like an

445
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:07,119
Speaker 1: advisor for English Conservatives. Oooh yeah, kind of a bummer.

446
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:11,640
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, based on his character of Edmund, I know,

447
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 3: it was all very surprised because it.

448
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:17,639
Speaker 1: Was all there. I know, he's canonically aligned with fascism always.

449
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:21,639
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, Edmund is a little shit. That's his

450
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:26,160
Speaker 3: main character trait. And then Susan is there too.

451
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:30,320
Speaker 1: Oh I that's not nice to Susan.

452
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:33,240
Speaker 3: I mean, it's not okay, it's not a reflection of

453
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:35,679
Speaker 3: how I feel about Susan. I like Susan, but I

454
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,720
Speaker 3: feel like the story is just like and she's here

455
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 3: as well.

456
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:42,520
Speaker 1: I do agree. I feel like if you like Susan,

457
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:45,400
Speaker 1: you kind of need to like build some headcanon for

458
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:48,640
Speaker 1: her because also, and we'll talk about this, she gets

459
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,240
Speaker 1: written out of later books in a pretty pointed way,

460
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 1: which we can we can talk about after we talk

461
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:55,199
Speaker 1: about the movie. Damn.

462
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, So those are the kids One Rainy Day.

463
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:02,199
Speaker 3: Lucy's a just they play hide and seek, and she

464
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 3: wanders into a mysterious spare room or spare oom with

465
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 3: nothing inside but a large wardrobe. She goes inside the

466
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:16,200
Speaker 3: wardrobe and it's full of these like fur coats as

467
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:18,960
Speaker 3: well as an entire country.

468
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:22,960
Speaker 1: Shames McAvoy topless. I'm like elbowing against the back of

469
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:25,160
Speaker 1: any cabinet as a twelve year old, being like, where

470
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,920
Speaker 1: is he at? Where's the at? But he was never

471
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:29,320
Speaker 1: in there.

472
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:35,160
Speaker 3: So this wardrobe is this like portal to this alternate

473
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:39,680
Speaker 3: dimension fantasy realm called Narnia.

474
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:42,040
Speaker 1: It's so awesome. It's right up there with like the

475
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:45,679
Speaker 1: entry into Oz for me of like entering another world

476
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 1: and feeling so like practical and so magical, and it's

477
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 1: just it's just beautiful. I love It's great. I love

478
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 1: this shit right, It's so well done. And it's especially

479
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,720
Speaker 1: because like pretty soon after you're like entering kind of

480
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 1: like Uncanny Valley Marvel territory. But it's like it's just

481
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:05,640
Speaker 1: so pretty. I love it.

482
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:11,160
Speaker 3: And it's very cold and snowy and everything is snow covered,

483
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:15,760
Speaker 3: and there's a lamp post that's like the landmark that

484
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 3: lets you know that, oh, you're near the entrance of

485
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 3: the Wardrobe.

486
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:24,400
Speaker 1: Which legend has it, Oh that these whatever J R.

487
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:29,440
Speaker 1: Tolkien and C. S Lewis best best friends, like jar R.

488
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:33,159
Speaker 1: Tolkien is one of the main motivating factors for C. S.

489
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,720
Speaker 1: Lewis to become a Christian because C. S. Lewis didn't

490
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:40,440
Speaker 1: become a Christian in a meaningful way until his thirties.

491
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:43,399
Speaker 1: But he was just hanging out with his boy JR. R.

492
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:47,359
Speaker 1: Y and Jarr got him into it. But I guess

493
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 1: that whatever j R. R. Tolkien was like, I bet you

494
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 1: couldn't make something like an innocuous object feel really magical.

495
00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 1: And that's where the lamp post comes from. Huh okay, yeah,

496
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 1: and guess what he did it? He did it and

497
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:09,439
Speaker 1: he made feminist iconost and feminist icon mister Tumdus.

498
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 3: Right, because the first being that Lucy encounters in Narnia

499
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:22,000
Speaker 3: is a fawn named Tumnus. And he's like, oh my gosh,

500
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 3: are you a daughter of Eve? A human child? And

501
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 3: she's like, yeah, bitch, what do you mean? And he's like, wow,

502
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:32,840
Speaker 3: I've never seen a human before. Why don't you come

503
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:37,200
Speaker 3: to my house for tea? So Lucy goes to Tumnus's house.

504
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 1: He's but well, he says, he does not really say tea.

505
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 3: Though.

506
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 1: He gets this little girl to come to his house

507
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 1: by being like, I've got it. I got pounds and

508
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:47,359
Speaker 1: pounds of sardines at my house.

509
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 3: Like right, He's like, there's toast and cake and maybe

510
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:56,640
Speaker 3: if you're good, I'll bust out the sardines, as if

511
00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 3: that's like a selling point.

512
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:00,240
Speaker 1: And then Lucy validates it. She's like, well, if you've

513
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 1: got sardines, I was like wow, I like this is

514
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 1: like I.

515
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 3: Don't understand what's going on in the UK A British

516
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:10,639
Speaker 3: children loved sardines.

517
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:14,200
Speaker 1: Wow, the one way to lure a child. A stranger

518
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 1: luring a child into his home with the promise of sardines.

519
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:20,399
Speaker 1: You're like, sure, Wow, I guess I guess it was

520
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:23,359
Speaker 1: you know, economic downturn. You know it was hard and

521
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 1: I do. We'll talk about this, but I did appreciate.

522
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:28,680
Speaker 1: I mean, this is like more I feel like it's

523
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:32,639
Speaker 1: it's in the book, but it's more like thoroughly grounded.

524
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 1: In the movie of like the children are you know,

525
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 1: displaced and you know they're separated from their mom and

526
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 1: it's really sad.

527
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 3: There's a scene at the beginning of this movie where

528
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 3: their mom takes them to a train station that kind

529
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 3: of looks like Paddington Station, and she puts these tags

530
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 3: on them that basically say, like here's the train stop

531
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 3: that these kids are supposed to get off at, and

532
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 3: here's their names, and like who's so supposed to come

533
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 3: and collect them? I think is like probably generally the

534
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 3: information that was on these And it's very similar to

535
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 3: in Paddington when Aunt Lucy puts the tag on him

536
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 3: and it says, please look after this bear, and then

537
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 3: he shows up at the train station in London.

538
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 1: There really are kind of like four little bears being

539
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 1: shipped out to the country.

540
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just it's sort of like the opposite journey,

541
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 3: but it's the same sentiment as far as like these

542
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:31,719
Speaker 3: small children are displaced. Yeah, they're refugees and they're like

543
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 3: seeking safety they ah.

544
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, it really made me think more this time again. Like,

545
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:38,760
Speaker 1: I don't know, I think if we have recorded this

546
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 1: episode ten years ago, I would have been extremely hostile

547
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 1: to the concept of faith as it's presented within these books.

548
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 1: But I don't know, I don't know, if it's just

549
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 1: I'm older, whatever it is, But like I do. I

550
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 1: did kind of appreciate it more this time around, where

551
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 1: it's like the grounding of like these kids are displaced

552
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 1: from their family, their refugees, and they're like kind of

553
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 1: looking for something to feel grounded in and believe in,

554
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 1: and so in the context of that, you're like, yeah,

555
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:07,760
Speaker 1: it makes sense. True.

556
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 3: So mister Tumnus is like, Lucy, I've got sardines at

557
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 3: my house, come on over, and she's like, you bet

558
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:16,720
Speaker 3: UK listeners.

559
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 1: Would this work on you there?

560
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 3: Yeah? Let us know please, And she's like, hell, yeah,

561
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 3: I'll do that. So she goes to his house and

562
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 3: eventually Tumness confesses that he is in the employ of

563
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 3: someone named the White Witch, who is an evil woman

564
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 3: who has taken control of Narnia. She's the one who

565
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 3: makes it always winter but never Christmas ugh, and she

566
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 3: had instructed Tumness to kidnap any humans he finds, And

567
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 3: Tumness reveals that he is actively kidnapping Lucy, but he's

568
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 3: had a change of heart and so he helps her

569
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 3: get back home through the wardrobe back into the house.

570
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,959
Speaker 1: It's really sweet and I feel like is a great

571
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 1: sort of foregrounding of what I think Susan I agree

572
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 1: with you. Is like not a very well rounded out

573
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 1: or thought through character, but I really liked how like

574
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:16,120
Speaker 1: Lucy from the very beginning is like I don't know,

575
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:19,560
Speaker 1: like she's she is effective. She was like, no, you

576
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 1: can't kidnap me. Look at me. I'm so cute. And

577
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 1: then he's like, damn, you're right, you're right, you gotta go.

578
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 1: Like that scene was great.

579
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then he's crying and she's like, here's my handkerchief,

580
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 3: like you need this more than I do, and their

581
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 3: besties and their besties from that moment fourth it's true.

582
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 3: So Lucy enters back through the wardrobe into the spare

583
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 3: room and discovers that even though hours have passed in Narnia,

584
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 3: no time has passed in like her world. And when

585
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 3: Lucy tells her siblings about Narnia, they don't believe her,

586
00:31:56,080 --> 00:32:00,720
Speaker 3: and Edmund especially is a shit about it, but they

587
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:03,480
Speaker 3: like give her the benefit of the doubt. They investigate

588
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 3: the wardrobe, but when they, you know, open it up,

589
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 3: it just seems like a normal wardrobe. One night, a

590
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 3: short time later, a very determined Lucy goes into the

591
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 3: wardrobe again. Edmund sees her and follows her, and this

592
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 3: time Narnia is back. It's there in the wardrobe, and

593
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 3: we stay with Edmund as he starts to explore Narnia,

594
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 3: and who does he immediately encounter but the White Witch herself.

595
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 1: Literally Satan inserts Evan walks in and immediately a tried

596
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:44,360
Speaker 1: look and it's his vibes. It's I'm just saying, Lucy

597
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 1: does not immediately attract Satan, right, Yeah.

598
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 3: But Edmund is Judas or something, and.

599
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 1: So well, this is well we'll talk about it. Like there,

600
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people are like trying to

601
00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 1: figure out the one to one of Narnia and person

602
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 1: he has Lewis He's like, no, it's not one. Yeah,

603
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 1: there's like definitely like Aslan is like obviously Jesus, and

604
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 1: the White Witch is definitely Satan Codd but like outside

605
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 1: of that, there's not a ton of one to one.

606
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 3: Right, So we meet the White Witch played by Tilda Swinton,

607
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 3: and it's a white woman with dreadlocks. So we're like,

608
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 3: we're like, beware.

609
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 1: That's that's the truth. That is true. That's the kind

610
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 1: of a universal indicator of maybe do not trust. Yeah,

611
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 1: it is incredible to me that this is how an

612
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 1: entire generation of children learned who till this Swinton was?

613
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:42,440
Speaker 1: I mean, this is absolutely how I learned who till

614
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 1: the Swinton was. Sure, it's like right up there with

615
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 1: like Antonio Banderas and spy kids with like an incredible

616
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 1: way to introduce a child to an iconic actor. M

617
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:55,120
Speaker 1: so good. Yeah, I love those. Yeah. Perfect.

618
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:59,320
Speaker 3: The Witch tells Edmund that she's the Queen of Narnia,

619
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 3: and she gives him some magical Turkish delight, which puts

620
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:08,319
Speaker 3: him under a spell, which basically makes him even more

621
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:09,960
Speaker 3: shitty than he already is.

622
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:13,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's like, arguably it didn't take a lot, right.

623
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, And she tells Edmund to bring his siblings to her.

624
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 3: If he does, she might make him Prince of Narnia,

625
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 3: so he agrees. She leaves, and then Lucy shows up.

626
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:32,960
Speaker 3: She's been visiting with mister Tumnus again, and Lucy is

627
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:37,799
Speaker 3: delighted because now Edmund can vouch for Narnia existing to

628
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 3: Peter and Susan. But when the time comes, Edmund betrays

629
00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 3: Lucy and says that she's making it all up.

630
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:48,239
Speaker 1: Oh he's dirty for this. I hate. If there's one

631
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:53,960
Speaker 1: bitch I hate, it's Edmund Pevensey. I hate that little asshole.

632
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I kind of like, due to reasons we'll

633
00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 3: talk about, I kind of love Peter because Peter's like

634
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 3: fuck Edmund.

635
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 1: Peter's t Lucy.

636
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:06,400
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, And so Lucy is devastated by this, and

637
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:10,399
Speaker 3: Peter and Susan go to the Professor, who, by the way,

638
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:16,799
Speaker 3: is played by Jim Broadbent, who plays Paddington. Wow, so

639
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 3: similarities keep piling up.

640
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:23,480
Speaker 1: He's really great, and his character I don't remember. I

641
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 1: don't know, like if you countered this, but his character whatever,

642
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:29,840
Speaker 1: there's a whole like Langwich and the Wardrobe is the

643
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 1: first book published in this series, but it's the second

644
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 1: canonically in the series when it's all written.

645
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:36,360
Speaker 3: Out in like chronology. Yeah.

646
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, so like story wise, the what's his name? What's

647
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 1: the Jim Bradbent character's name?

648
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:45,360
Speaker 3: Professor?

649
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:48,160
Speaker 1: I don't even know if he has a more specific name.

650
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:54,239
Speaker 1: He definitely does, because oh, professor Kirk, Professor Kirk. If

651
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:58,759
Speaker 1: I did my research correctly, in the first book in

652
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:03,040
Speaker 1: the Chronicles of Narnia series, he is a boy in

653
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:06,839
Speaker 1: that book and like whatever, something something. I think there's

654
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:08,879
Speaker 1: an apple tree and with the wood from the apple tree,

655
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:11,760
Speaker 1: they make the wardrobe, so he like went to Narnia

656
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 1: as a child, and the wardrobe has access to Narnia

657
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 1: because it's made from Narnian wood or whatever. So when

658
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:22,839
Speaker 1: he's like he he haha, tell me more about it,

659
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 1: it's because he's been to Narnia.

660
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:28,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's heavily implied in this movie.

661
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 1: But unfortunately, for my money, one of the more boring books.

662
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:36,319
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't need like tree Lore. I'm not

663
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:38,800
Speaker 1: worried about where it came from. I made tree Beard

664
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 1: any day Lewis, I don't remember. I just like struggle

665
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:48,799
Speaker 1: with fantasy. There's too many details. It's too hard for me.

666
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:51,960
Speaker 1: But I don't remember, Like what is the vibe of

667
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,279
Speaker 1: tree Beard? Is it like passive aggressive to be like

668
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 1: your tree Beard or is it kind of like nice?

669
00:36:56,840 --> 00:37:01,360
Speaker 3: He I think is a generally liked character, but he

670
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 3: talks really slowly because he's a tree. Therefore I find

671
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 3: him kind of boring.

672
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,160
Speaker 1: Okay, because the C. C. S. Lewis was like, from

673
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 1: what I could tell, was known to be like really

674
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 1: loud and yappy. Oh but I don't know. Anyways, there's a.

675
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:23,439
Speaker 3: Part in Two Towers when tree Beard rallies a bunch

676
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:26,960
Speaker 3: of other trees or ents rather, and they're like, oh

677
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:29,840
Speaker 3: my god, let's go kill Sarmon and then they attack

678
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:33,080
Speaker 3: Eisengarde and destroy it and it's this really great sequence.

679
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 3: Yeah remember that, Jamie.

680
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 1: No I was like, yeah, so, okay, I'm sorry. I

681
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:43,719
Speaker 1: just double checked my my stars the one wiki to

682
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 1: rule them all, which says yes. Treebeard's deep, booming voice

683
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:52,319
Speaker 1: was directly inspired by C. S. Lewis's. Tolkien reportedly told

684
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:56,840
Speaker 1: Neville Coghill, god, that's a British name, that he modeled

685
00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:59,360
Speaker 1: Treebeard's voice off of the booming voice of C. S. Lewis,

686
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:04,400
Speaker 1: including the rum mannerisms, and that like it. I guess C.

687
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:09,800
Speaker 1: Has Lewis had a wide gate. Men are so weird. Anyways,

688
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:13,359
Speaker 1: let's go back to Okay, back to the story I'm Born,

689
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 1: So Peter and Susan, because Lucy is so insistent that

690
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:19,360
Speaker 1: Narnia is real.

691
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:23,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, Peter and Susan go to the professor to be like,

692
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:25,440
Speaker 3: what do you think is going on? And the Professor's

693
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 3: just like, hey, maybe tried believing your sister, you little shits. Oh,

694
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:32,919
Speaker 3: And they're like, oh, I guess yeah.

695
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 1: He's like, apologize, apologize, now bitch.

696
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:40,840
Speaker 3: Then one day the kids accidentally break some shit in

697
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 3: the house and they have to run away from Ms McCready,

698
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:47,279
Speaker 3: who works for the professor, and they all end up

699
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 3: in the spare room and they hide in the wardrobe,

700
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:54,279
Speaker 3: and sure enough they all wind up in Narnia, and

701
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:57,560
Speaker 3: Peter and Susan are like, oh my god, so sorry,

702
00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:00,920
Speaker 3: Lucy that we did not believe you. You were so

703
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 3: true all along.

704
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:06,640
Speaker 1: And then Peter's like, Edmund, you're a little asshole, piece

705
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:09,879
Speaker 1: of your piece of shit, and and he's right, He's right.

706
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:14,480
Speaker 3: So then they all head to mister Tumnus's house, only

707
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 3: to discover that he has been abducted by the White

708
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:24,840
Speaker 3: Witch's Wolf Police Force for fratenizing with humans aka Lucy.

709
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:27,799
Speaker 1: I do feel like there's like a little bit of uh,

710
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:32,840
Speaker 1: you know, real life fascism commentary going on here. I

711
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 1: particularly liked the line of like, I don't know, every

712
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:38,320
Speaker 1: kid has the moment realizing this, they're like, she'll we

713
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:40,759
Speaker 1: called the police. No, the police are doing this, and

714
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:43,759
Speaker 1: they're like, oh, so we have to do something a

715
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 1: bat at, yes.

716
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:51,040
Speaker 3: Yes, So the siblings decide to try to help Tumnus,

717
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:55,760
Speaker 3: but they're not sure what to do until mister Beaver

718
00:39:56,040 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 3: shows up. Your favorite, your favorite I do like mister Beaver.

719
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:05,239
Speaker 3: He brings them to his house where he lives with

720
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 3: his wife, Missus Beaver. And what does she do well,

721
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:15,960
Speaker 3: She cooks them dinner. Women be cooking, even beaver women.

722
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 1: Even beaver women. To be fair, you know, C. S

723
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:22,279
Speaker 1: Lewis was kind of dating his mom, so it's kind

724
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:25,520
Speaker 1: of like it's C. S. Lewis's views on women. And

725
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:27,879
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that they're excusable. I'm just saying that

726
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:32,120
Speaker 1: they're they're they're very particular because he's fucking Patty's mom

727
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:35,840
Speaker 1: while he's writing this book, and you're just like whatever

728
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:38,960
Speaker 1: they took in, I guess during World War Two they

729
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:42,799
Speaker 1: the two of them took in refugees, which I'm sure

730
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:46,120
Speaker 1: had some influence on this story. And there are stories

731
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:48,840
Speaker 1: of like, you know, like young people who passed through

732
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:51,520
Speaker 1: the house kind of in like a boarding house capacity

733
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:54,439
Speaker 1: that were like he was really lovely and yeah they

734
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:58,720
Speaker 1: had something, who knows, and they were together. They were together,

735
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:02,759
Speaker 1: all right. I forget where that was going, but yeah,

736
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 1: I was like, it is like it is very you know,

737
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 1: gender essentialist for him to be like women be cooking.

738
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:10,560
Speaker 1: But I'm like, is he just thinking like mommy's be cooking?

739
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:15,000
Speaker 1: Are all women mommies? To him? Oh no, we don't know.

740
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:17,600
Speaker 1: Which is still misogynous, but you know, just food for that.

741
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:20,760
Speaker 3: And speaking of food, they all sit down to missus

742
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:25,520
Speaker 3: Beaver's fish and chips. It's no sardines, but I mean

743
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 3: I was, I was hungry.

744
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:28,799
Speaker 1: I was like fish. Oh, I love I love some

745
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:29,520
Speaker 1: fish and chips.

746
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:35,360
Speaker 3: So during the dinner, mister Beaver tells the kids about Aslan,

747
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:39,560
Speaker 3: a lion who is the rightful king of the land.

748
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:42,720
Speaker 1: He literally is like, while I've got you here, I'd

749
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 1: like to tell you about my one and only Lord, Lord,

750
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:48,440
Speaker 1: say Jesus Christ, You're like, oh no, I knew. I

751
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:50,239
Speaker 1: knew that the food's never really free.

752
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:54,839
Speaker 3: You know, it comes at a price. Aslan has been

753
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:58,399
Speaker 3: gone for many generations, but word has it that he's

754
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:01,560
Speaker 3: on his way back to Narnia to set things right.

755
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:06,359
Speaker 3: Mister Beaver also tells them about a prophecy that when

756
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:10,480
Speaker 3: two sons of Adam and two daughters of Eve, the

757
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:16,320
Speaker 3: two genders according to C. S. Lewis, sit on thrones

758
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 3: at the Castle care paravel that will defeat the White

759
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:27,920
Speaker 3: Witch and restore peace to Narnia. So it's speculated that

760
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:33,560
Speaker 3: these four siblings are who the prophecy is about. Then Peter, Susan,

761
00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 3: and Lucy discover that Edmund has snuck out and abandoned

762
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:41,640
Speaker 3: them at some point during dinner, and he's heading to

763
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 3: the White Witch's castle. And the only thing that really

764
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:51,440
Speaker 3: can save any of them now is Aslan. So mister

765
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:55,960
Speaker 3: and Missus Beaver and the three remaining siblings set off

766
00:42:56,040 --> 00:43:01,880
Speaker 3: toward Aslan. And this is where things start to slightly

767
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 3: depart from the book a little bit in that there's

768
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 3: like some more.

769
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:10,080
Speaker 1: Like an added action sequence. Ye kind of yeah, it's

770
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:13,880
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say it's thrilling. It feels very like studio notes,

771
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:15,719
Speaker 1: like we need.

772
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 3: We need a big action set piece right here.

773
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:21,560
Speaker 1: I'm not mad about it, but yeah, yeah.

774
00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:26,120
Speaker 3: So they set off and they're being chased by wolves.

775
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:31,359
Speaker 3: The wolf police acab includes these wolf.

776
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:34,480
Speaker 1: Cops, includes the Michael Madsen Wolf.

777
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:38,560
Speaker 3: Or whatever, the voice actors.

778
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:41,520
Speaker 1: The voice actors. It's kind of funky, yeah, mister Fox

779
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 1: Rupert Everett.

780
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:46,400
Speaker 3: Didn't know, yes of Shrek two fame?

781
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:49,319
Speaker 1: Yes, Well, because this movie we have how could we

782
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 1: have gotten this far into it. Directed by Andrew Adamson,

783
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:57,000
Speaker 1: the director of Shrek, Shrek two, Yeah, And can I

784
00:43:57,080 --> 00:44:02,400
Speaker 1: just say yes, that's range is range? That is range.

785
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 1: Shrek two comes out the year before this. I would

786
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:08,200
Speaker 1: never in a million years guess this is the same guy.

787
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:12,400
Speaker 3: I know. Yeah, where are the fart jokes in Narnia?

788
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:15,560
Speaker 1: I think, you know? And the restraint there was strength

789
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:19,239
Speaker 1: he shows. And I don't know what, I'm curious. Maybe

790
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:20,920
Speaker 1: it's like one of those things where it's like he

791
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:22,960
Speaker 1: just has so much money he does. He's like, whatever

792
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:27,440
Speaker 1: Shrek residuals, you know, will feed my family for centuries.

793
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:31,799
Speaker 1: But he really like does so he does Shrek, Shrek two, yeah,

794
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:34,799
Speaker 1: and then all three chronicles and no directs the first

795
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:39,240
Speaker 1: two Chronicles in Narnia movies, and then in twenty twelve

796
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 1: directs a movie called Mister Pip starring Hugh Laurie. I'm saying,

797
00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:47,000
Speaker 1: you're like, hmm, okay, that's none of my business. And

798
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:50,160
Speaker 1: then a cert Di Silay movie, and that's kind of it.

799
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 1: And that's like kind of it. I think it seems

800
00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:53,600
Speaker 1: like he kind of produces.

801
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:59,440
Speaker 3: It's too yeah, producing, because he produces other Shrek properties

802
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:02,840
Speaker 3: such as the Puss in Boots movies and the other

803
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:04,520
Speaker 3: Shrek movies.

804
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:08,800
Speaker 1: I would be curious at like how involved he actually

805
00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:10,640
Speaker 1: is in those though, or if it's just sort of

806
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 1: like he's mister Shrek, so he's got to get a

807
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:17,080
Speaker 1: credit on everything, Shrek Forever, right, Shrek Forever after you

808
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:20,319
Speaker 1: can even say whoa which he mysteriously actually does not

809
00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 1: have a credit on. No, he is the EP on

810
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:26,200
Speaker 1: Shrek Forever after? Oh is he? Yeah? Oh yes it is? Yes,

811
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:29,920
Speaker 1: I am okay, Yeah, shout out Andrew Adamson. Yeah, we

812
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:32,399
Speaker 1: were not familiar with your game and then we were

813
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:34,359
Speaker 1: and then you kind of stop directing stuff.

814
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:37,799
Speaker 3: So well more men should stop directing stuff. So I'm

815
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 3: not mad about it.

816
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:40,280
Speaker 1: I'm not mad about it. I'm just saying the range

817
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:42,520
Speaker 1: Shrek two two thousand and four Chronicles and Arria two

818
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:43,680
Speaker 1: thousand and five, it's impressive.

819
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:48,360
Speaker 3: It is it is. And yeah, there's a Rupert Everett

820
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:54,200
Speaker 3: voiced Fox character in this movie that I think is

821
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:57,640
Speaker 3: a complete edition, not in the book at all.

822
00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:01,120
Speaker 1: And kind of like for what, like I wasn't really

823
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:04,840
Speaker 1: sure what this yeah, because I didn't remember if I

824
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:08,040
Speaker 1: went through like a list of changes but like you're

825
00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:11,879
Speaker 1: sort of like, why, I don't know. I never want

826
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:14,759
Speaker 1: a movie to have more CG animals.

827
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:17,759
Speaker 3: So right, right, yeah, but I do want movies to

828
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:19,520
Speaker 3: have more rupert everet.

829
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:22,520
Speaker 1: So it's a toss up. It's complicated. Oh you know

830
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:24,239
Speaker 1: what we need to talk about, and this is like

831
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:28,880
Speaker 1: there's obviously there's not time right now. But Sarah Marshall

832
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:32,040
Speaker 1: was visiting this weekend and I forget how we watch

833
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:33,719
Speaker 1: We got to this. But are you aware of the

834
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:38,640
Speaker 1: movie mister Wrong? No, okay, I was not aware of

835
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:41,879
Speaker 1: it either. Is a rom com from nineteen ninety six

836
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:44,359
Speaker 1: during Ellen DeGeneres pre coming out.

837
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:47,400
Speaker 3: Oh right, this one, okay, I with Bill Pullman. I

838
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:49,840
Speaker 3: know the poster, but I've never seen the movie.

839
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:52,520
Speaker 1: Genuinely, one of the more unhinged things I've ever seen.

840
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:54,719
Speaker 1: I think we should cover it on the Matreon at

841
00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:58,319
Speaker 1: some point because people like absolutely hated it, and it's

842
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:02,280
Speaker 1: time and I'm not saying it's good. I am saying

843
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 1: I never knew what was gonna happen. Like I was

844
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:08,000
Speaker 1: on the edge of my seat. You will not believe

845
00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:13,760
Speaker 1: the list of things that happen in the movie, mister Wrong. Okay.

846
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 1: The least of which is Ellen degenerous peek Ellen Right, Well,

847
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:20,480
Speaker 1: like I guess, like the first phase of Ellen pre

848
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 1: talk show. She made two million dollars to be in

849
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:27,719
Speaker 1: that movie, and she does accidentally look into the camera twice.

850
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:33,319
Speaker 1: Incredible ten out of ten on the rampometer. But you know,

851
00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 1: someday it would be interesting to cover on the Bechdel

852
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 1: Cast because Bill Pullman is giving one of the weirdest

853
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:40,120
Speaker 1: performances I think I've ever seen.

854
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:42,960
Speaker 3: Whoa Okay, listeners, really do you want that? Do you

855
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:44,640
Speaker 3: want us to talk about mister wrong?

856
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:49,880
Speaker 1: We will because yeah, I mean you we could, we could.

857
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:53,280
Speaker 1: I would watch it again. Okay, yeah, all right. Anyways,

858
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:54,200
Speaker 1: back to the chronicles.

859
00:47:56,760 --> 00:48:00,359
Speaker 3: Okay, so most of the siblings are trying to get

860
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:04,560
Speaker 3: their way to Aslan and they're being chased by the wolves. Meanwhile,

861
00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:08,400
Speaker 3: Edmund shows up at the Witch's castle and she's pissed

862
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:11,080
Speaker 3: that he came alone since he was supposed to bring

863
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:14,040
Speaker 3: his siblings, and she's about to kill him or maybe

864
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:16,719
Speaker 3: turn him into stone because she loves doing that.

865
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:19,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, she kind of like it feels like you have

866
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:22,719
Speaker 1: like a weird James McAvoy, like han solo carbonite guy.

867
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:27,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, and Edmund's like, no, wait, the beaver mentioned something

868
00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:32,080
Speaker 3: about Aslan, So now the Witch knows that Aslan is

869
00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:35,839
Speaker 3: coming back to Narnia and she really does not like this,

870
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:39,920
Speaker 3: so she takes Edmund to go looking for the others

871
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:44,040
Speaker 3: so that she can kill them to prevent the prophecy

872
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:49,239
Speaker 3: from coming true. And Edmund is finally starting to realize

873
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:51,880
Speaker 3: that maybe the White Witch is not very nice and

874
00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:54,799
Speaker 3: that maybe he shouldn't align himself with fascism.

875
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:58,400
Speaker 1: He's a bit dense, isn't he, it it, and really,

876
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:01,400
Speaker 1: like many before him, and you know, I'm sure that

877
00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:04,320
Speaker 1: this is commentary of some sort. He really only starts

878
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:05,920
Speaker 1: to be like, maybe I shouldn't do this when it

879
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:08,600
Speaker 1: starts to affect him personally. It is when he's thrown

880
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:12,719
Speaker 1: in jail that he's like, wait, maybe I don't like this, right? Yes.

881
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:18,560
Speaker 3: Meanwhile, the children and the beavers, they're still like journeying

882
00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:23,200
Speaker 3: toward the stone table, which is like Asland headquarters. The

883
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:27,240
Speaker 3: Witch catches up with them in her sleigh. But wait

884
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:30,719
Speaker 3: a minute, it's not the Witch. It's Santa Claus.

885
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:34,239
Speaker 1: I always forget that Santa is in this movie. It

886
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:38,319
Speaker 1: is so weird that Santa is in this movie. I

887
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:42,960
Speaker 1: like it, but you're like, why is Santa in the movie.

888
00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:46,880
Speaker 1: I mean Santa knows God? Like what do you mean? Well,

889
00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:49,520
Speaker 1: Santa feels kind of I think if Santa's kind of

890
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:52,040
Speaker 1: his own thing, he's a secular guy. But no, not here,

891
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:56,040
Speaker 1: Santa knows Jesus. He's like, Santa's like Jesus has returned,

892
00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:59,920
Speaker 1: Like I don't know's I see that scene and I'm

893
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:04,000
Speaker 1: sure why not? And and he gives them weapons. He's like,

894
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:09,840
Speaker 1: Merry Christmas, bitch, you're going to war. And then he's like, yeah, weird.

895
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:17,040
Speaker 3: He gives Lucy a little dagger and some magic healing juice.

896
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:20,000
Speaker 1: Because women be healing, not fighting, as we will see

897
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:20,719
Speaker 1: m M.

898
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:26,160
Speaker 3: He gives Susan a bow and arrow as well as

899
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:30,600
Speaker 3: a horn, which is meant to like communicate with others,

900
00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:33,960
Speaker 3: because the burden of communications on women.

901
00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:39,319
Speaker 1: Women be communicating, women be witnessing the crucifixion. Like I

902
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:41,600
Speaker 1: got lost after a while of like what women be doing.

903
00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:46,200
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, Peter gets a big soul. He's a

904
00:50:46,239 --> 00:50:48,719
Speaker 1: fifteen year old boy a lethal weapon, and he's like,

905
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:51,880
Speaker 1: I just again, you're like things you're not used to

906
00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:54,880
Speaker 1: seeing Santa doing is that what happened in that movie

907
00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:56,279
Speaker 1: Red One? We don't know?

908
00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:58,239
Speaker 3: Well I do know because I saw it.

909
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:01,160
Speaker 1: Oh because oh I forgot you were the one. You

910
00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 1: were the one person who saw it. I really I

911
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:07,560
Speaker 1: that maybe maybe I'll maybe I'll watch it this year

912
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:10,839
Speaker 1: if it's free, because I like those polar Bears were

913
00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:14,880
Speaker 1: They're so jagged. Not that that's a selling point. I

914
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:17,480
Speaker 1: guess I made it sound like I gotta see because.

915
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:22,160
Speaker 3: I don't really remember what happened in that movie. I

916
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:25,200
Speaker 3: think that I do remember not liking it. So Lucy

917
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:28,560
Speaker 3: Losing it right, I should watch it? How bad could

918
00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:31,040
Speaker 3: it be, Lucy Lose? I think in it, I remember

919
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:33,680
Speaker 3: the Rock is in it. The Rock is well, yeah,

920
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:36,000
Speaker 3: he'll do he'll do anything. True.

921
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:37,840
Speaker 1: Yeah okay.

922
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:43,080
Speaker 3: So also Santa Claus is presence, his p R E

923
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:47,280
Speaker 3: s E n ce, not his not his like gifts.

924
00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:51,960
Speaker 3: Hold for a clause again, Calm down, everybody.

925
00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:54,480
Speaker 1: Sorry, we've been doing this for a while. Not anyone

926
00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:54,920
Speaker 1: could do that.

927
00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:59,280
Speaker 3: His presence in Narnia means that things are starting to change,

928
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:02,600
Speaker 3: because before there was never Christmas, but now there's Christmas.

929
00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:08,120
Speaker 3: And we also see the snow and ice starting to thaw.

930
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:12,440
Speaker 3: And melt away, and then there's this whole actiony set

931
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:18,280
Speaker 3: piece of the siblings trying to cross a river as

932
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:21,560
Speaker 3: the ice is breaking because it's melting and the wolves

933
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:24,640
Speaker 3: are chasing them. But then they escape and they make

934
00:52:24,719 --> 00:52:29,359
Speaker 3: it to the Stone Table, where Aslan has assembled an

935
00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:35,520
Speaker 3: army of like centaurs and shit. Aslan comes out, and

936
00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:40,600
Speaker 3: of course he is the lion king, and he takes

937
00:52:40,640 --> 00:52:44,239
Speaker 3: Peter aside, and they gaze upon the land and he's

938
00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:49,040
Speaker 3: basically like, Simba, my son. Everything the light touches will

939
00:52:49,080 --> 00:52:49,760
Speaker 3: be yours.

940
00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:53,719
Speaker 1: It's true. And you're like and I and and like,

941
00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:56,840
Speaker 1: you know, twenty years later, the cgi isn't great. Liam

942
00:52:56,880 --> 00:53:02,000
Speaker 1: Neeson does elect to just use his neson Lion Neeson

943
00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:05,640
Speaker 1: is using really just his speaking voice. Like, yes, Grant

944
00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:08,440
Speaker 1: was in the kitchen when I was watching the movie

945
00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:10,279
Speaker 1: and didn't even need to look. He's like, I didn't

946
00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:12,279
Speaker 1: know Liam Neeson was in this movie. I was like, well, yeah,

947
00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:15,840
Speaker 1: I guess he's not really acting. He's just talking. But

948
00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:18,920
Speaker 1: I don't know what it was. Something about that damn lion,

949
00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:21,759
Speaker 1: something about that damn lion. I just you wanted to

950
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:29,200
Speaker 1: kiss him every night. I didn't just want to I did. Yeah,

951
00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:30,759
Speaker 1: no accounting for it.

952
00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:32,240
Speaker 3: Look, no judgment.

953
00:53:33,080 --> 00:53:33,440
Speaker 1: Okay.

954
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:36,360
Speaker 3: So they're all hanging out now at the Stone Table.

955
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:41,040
Speaker 3: Then the wolf cops show up and they're about to

956
00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:45,839
Speaker 3: attack Lucy and Susan, but then Peter saves them and

957
00:53:45,880 --> 00:53:49,000
Speaker 3: he kills one of the wolves with his sword, and

958
00:53:49,080 --> 00:53:52,640
Speaker 3: so now he's a man or something.

959
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:57,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, it gets pretty gender essentialist in the back in

960
00:53:57,360 --> 00:53:58,320
Speaker 1: the back half.

961
00:53:58,320 --> 00:54:03,080
Speaker 3: Yes me. Meanwhile, the White Witch is gathering an army

962
00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:06,400
Speaker 3: of her own, and she's also making her way to

963
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:09,760
Speaker 3: the Stone Table. But before she gets there, a few

964
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:15,520
Speaker 3: of Aslan's soldiers appear rescue Edmund and bring him back

965
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:20,840
Speaker 3: to the others, and Aslan is basically like, don't worry Edmund,

966
00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:25,480
Speaker 3: you don't need to apologize, and kids, you just have

967
00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:28,040
Speaker 3: to forgive your brother for what he did.

968
00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:33,480
Speaker 1: Right, And I mean, look, I guess if you're the

969
00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:36,399
Speaker 1: other Pevincy's what are you gonna do. You can't really

970
00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:37,720
Speaker 1: kill your eleven year old brother.

971
00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:41,520
Speaker 3: You can't kill him, but you can, I don't know,

972
00:54:41,640 --> 00:54:45,399
Speaker 3: hold him somewhat accountable for yes, I mean, I.

973
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:48,080
Speaker 1: Be trading them. I think at this point it gets

974
00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:51,799
Speaker 1: tricky because we're like stuck in the Christianity of it all,

975
00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:54,960
Speaker 1: where it's like, Okay, you know, he's been forgiven, like

976
00:54:55,080 --> 00:54:58,080
Speaker 1: Jesus has forgiven him, and we have to do the

977
00:54:58,200 --> 00:55:01,759
Speaker 1: christ like thing and be like right, even though it's like, yeah,

978
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:04,799
Speaker 1: he should be at least demoted. I'm not advocating that

979
00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:08,200
Speaker 1: we kill the kid, but like, you know, he should

980
00:55:08,200 --> 00:55:11,200
Speaker 1: feel he should. This is not the kind of kid

981
00:55:11,239 --> 00:55:13,680
Speaker 1: that I feel like learns a lesson from being shown

982
00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:18,480
Speaker 1: grace and forgiveness by everyone. But you know whatever, right, Yeah.

983
00:55:18,719 --> 00:55:22,880
Speaker 3: So, then the four children prepare for the impending battle

984
00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:27,160
Speaker 3: with the Witch in her army. She shows up to

985
00:55:27,239 --> 00:55:31,720
Speaker 3: be like, according to the laws of Narnia something something

986
00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:36,880
Speaker 3: deep magic, any trader belongs to me, so Edmund is

987
00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:37,680
Speaker 3: my property.

988
00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:40,080
Speaker 1: Well, and then he says, do not cite the deep

989
00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:43,080
Speaker 1: magic to me, which I was there when it was written,

990
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:46,879
Speaker 1: and it's like it is kind of iconic. I love

991
00:55:46,920 --> 00:55:49,640
Speaker 1: that line. It's pretty it's pretty sick. Yeah he he

992
00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:51,719
Speaker 1: kind of, you know, he really showed her.

993
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:57,720
Speaker 3: Yeah. Then Aslan and the Witch have a private meeting

994
00:55:57,880 --> 00:56:03,240
Speaker 3: where some negotiation is made in which Edmund is spared

995
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:07,080
Speaker 3: and no longer belongs to the Witch, but in exchange

996
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:10,719
Speaker 3: for what we don't yet know, but we find out

997
00:56:10,760 --> 00:56:15,080
Speaker 3: soon when that night, Susan and Lucy can't sleep, so

998
00:56:15,120 --> 00:56:19,279
Speaker 3: they leave their tent and see Aslan headed somewhere, so

999
00:56:19,320 --> 00:56:21,200
Speaker 3: they join him for a while, but then he has

1000
00:56:21,239 --> 00:56:25,200
Speaker 3: to go on alone, and Susan and Lucy watch from

1001
00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:29,160
Speaker 3: afar as he goes to the Stone Table, where he

1002
00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:34,960
Speaker 3: is awaited by the Witch and her minions, who tie

1003
00:56:35,120 --> 00:56:39,280
Speaker 3: Aslan up, They taunt him, they shave him, and then

1004
00:56:39,600 --> 00:56:43,360
Speaker 3: the Witch kills him because apparently he had bargained to

1005
00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:48,319
Speaker 3: save Edmund's life by agreeing to give his own. So

1006
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:52,480
Speaker 3: he dies, and then the Witch and her army leave.

1007
00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:58,640
Speaker 3: Susan and Lucy approach Aslan's body. They're devastated. They're crying.

1008
00:56:58,840 --> 00:57:03,280
Speaker 3: There's mice doing through the ropes, blah blah blah whatever.

1009
00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:08,200
Speaker 3: They then send word via the trees to their brothers

1010
00:57:08,440 --> 00:57:11,520
Speaker 3: that Aslan is dead. So now Peter has to lead

1011
00:57:11,960 --> 00:57:16,680
Speaker 3: Aslan's army to war with the Witch, who shows up

1012
00:57:16,680 --> 00:57:20,440
Speaker 3: on the battlefield looking like a lion herself.

1013
00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:25,280
Speaker 1: Really great outfit, really great outfit. I don't really care

1014
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:31,040
Speaker 1: about battle scenes in general. It's just not my culture.

1015
00:57:31,400 --> 00:57:34,560
Speaker 1: Same goes for the Lord of the Rings movies. I

1016
00:57:34,600 --> 00:57:37,320
Speaker 1: do feel like this movie was kind of marketed as

1017
00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:40,040
Speaker 1: Lord of the Rings Junior for sure, which and I

1018
00:57:40,040 --> 00:57:42,400
Speaker 1: think kind of the books were as well, which is

1019
00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:44,840
Speaker 1: really funny that these two guys knew each other very well,

1020
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:46,800
Speaker 1: and that j R. R. Tolkien was sort of like,

1021
00:57:47,240 --> 00:57:51,600
Speaker 1: why do you write books for kids? You fucking lose her, you.

1022
00:57:51,560 --> 00:57:54,920
Speaker 3: Know, even though The Hobbit his first book was for kids.

1023
00:57:55,200 --> 00:57:57,480
Speaker 1: It just sounds like Jerr R. Tolkien was. I don't

1024
00:57:57,520 --> 00:58:00,440
Speaker 1: know very much about them, and again, someone that people

1025
00:58:00,480 --> 00:58:03,320
Speaker 1: write doctoral thesis on, so what do I know?

1026
00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:06,120
Speaker 3: But it seems like he had kind of a streak

1027
00:58:06,160 --> 00:58:09,240
Speaker 3: of pettiness, very British pettiness to him.

1028
00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:10,880
Speaker 1: That seems kind of fun.

1029
00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:13,440
Speaker 3: We love men being bitchy to each other.

1030
00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:16,240
Speaker 1: So and it seems like these two were. Really they

1031
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:19,720
Speaker 1: were like both converting each other to various religions and

1032
00:58:20,040 --> 00:58:23,200
Speaker 1: huge bitches like they were. It was a rich text

1033
00:58:23,240 --> 00:58:27,360
Speaker 1: between them. But anyways, I like this battle scene more

1034
00:58:27,480 --> 00:58:31,280
Speaker 1: than I like other battle scenes. I don't know, I

1035
00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:34,040
Speaker 1: just wish that Susan and Lucy were allowed to participate

1036
00:58:34,040 --> 00:58:35,800
Speaker 1: in it because it seems like the it seems like

1037
00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:38,520
Speaker 1: the Witch is the only woman on the battlefield question.

1038
00:58:38,520 --> 00:58:42,400
Speaker 1: I think so really bizarre that the one woman invited

1039
00:58:42,520 --> 00:58:46,720
Speaker 1: is Satan, which feels pointed right right right.

1040
00:58:46,840 --> 00:58:52,120
Speaker 3: Yeah. Also, this battle scene, which is like a paragraph

1041
00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:56,960
Speaker 3: in the book, yeah, gets extended into this long sequence

1042
00:58:57,000 --> 00:58:59,640
Speaker 3: in the movie because it comes out in the wake

1043
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:02,920
Speaker 3: of the Lord of the Rings movies. So every movie

1044
00:59:03,120 --> 00:59:07,000
Speaker 3: like this needed a hashtag epic battle.

1045
00:59:07,680 --> 00:59:10,480
Speaker 1: Which does manage to make this children's movie two and

1046
00:59:10,560 --> 00:59:12,880
Speaker 1: a half hours long, which is like pretty.

1047
00:59:12,720 --> 00:59:16,320
Speaker 3: And also really violent. Like the violence in this battle

1048
00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:21,840
Speaker 3: scene is It's not bloody necessarily, but you feel the IMpower.

1049
00:59:21,400 --> 00:59:24,840
Speaker 1: All war as hell. I kind of liked that though.

1050
00:59:24,840 --> 00:59:26,600
Speaker 1: I feel like even as a kid, you're just like,

1051
00:59:26,720 --> 00:59:29,640
Speaker 1: damn that. I don't know, but I also saw the

1052
00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:32,280
Speaker 1: Lord of the Rings movies by that time, so maybe

1053
00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:35,040
Speaker 1: it feels felt less. But yeah, it definitely didn't feel

1054
00:59:35,080 --> 00:59:38,360
Speaker 1: like Battle Junior. It was pretty gory for kids.

1055
00:59:38,440 --> 00:59:39,120
Speaker 3: It was graphic.

1056
00:59:39,200 --> 00:59:41,000
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah.

1057
00:59:41,320 --> 00:59:45,360
Speaker 3: Okay. So meanwhile, the girls are not allowed to be

1058
00:59:45,480 --> 00:59:48,720
Speaker 3: in the battle, so they have stayed with Aslan's body

1059
00:59:48,800 --> 00:59:52,720
Speaker 3: all night, and then they finally start to leave, and

1060
00:59:52,840 --> 00:59:57,320
Speaker 3: as they do, they hear this thunderous crack and they

1061
00:59:57,360 --> 01:00:00,280
Speaker 3: look up and see that Aslan's body is gone and

1062
01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:03,800
Speaker 3: the stone table is split in half, and then a

1063
01:00:03,920 --> 01:00:11,440
Speaker 3: resurrected Jesus I mean Aslan appears and explains that the

1064
01:00:11,520 --> 01:00:15,280
Speaker 3: Deep Magic says that if a willing victim who has

1065
01:00:15,360 --> 01:00:20,640
Speaker 3: committed no treachery is killed in a trader's stead, then

1066
01:00:20,720 --> 01:00:22,280
Speaker 3: death can be undone.

1067
01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:25,840
Speaker 1: And you're like, oh, cool, he knew that hacking no

1068
01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:26,439
Speaker 1: one else did.

1069
01:00:28,120 --> 01:00:31,160
Speaker 3: So really convenient for this specific story.

1070
01:00:31,280 --> 01:00:34,120
Speaker 1: I think for stuff like this, this is where and

1071
01:00:34,160 --> 01:00:36,680
Speaker 1: this is like, you know, we won't get into it

1072
01:00:36,720 --> 01:00:39,360
Speaker 1: because it's like so pedantic and weird, But there are

1073
01:00:39,440 --> 01:00:42,240
Speaker 1: certain even though like this book is these where, these

1074
01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:47,920
Speaker 1: books in general are pretty massively popular in many Christian circles,

1075
01:00:48,160 --> 01:00:51,240
Speaker 1: there are still hardcore people that are like, Jesus would

1076
01:00:51,320 --> 01:00:54,120
Speaker 1: never be a lion, that's pagan. And the fact that

1077
01:00:54,160 --> 01:00:57,480
Speaker 1: they say deep magic, even the word magic, oh makes

1078
01:00:57,600 --> 01:01:01,280
Speaker 1: some you know, like super hyper religious people like lose

1079
01:01:01,320 --> 01:01:04,480
Speaker 1: their mind. I'm like, he made Jesus into a lion,

1080
01:01:04,560 --> 01:01:07,800
Speaker 1: that is net good for your project? You would chill out.

1081
01:01:08,080 --> 01:01:13,360
Speaker 3: M mm hmmm true. Yeah, Okay. So then Aslan takes

1082
01:01:13,680 --> 01:01:17,320
Speaker 3: the sisters to the Witch's castle, where she has a

1083
01:01:17,320 --> 01:01:21,640
Speaker 3: whole courtyard full of beings that she has turned to stone,

1084
01:01:22,080 --> 01:01:28,240
Speaker 3: including Tumness, and then Aslan breathes his hot lion breath

1085
01:01:28,320 --> 01:01:30,120
Speaker 3: on them and that brings them back to life.

1086
01:01:30,200 --> 01:01:31,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, kind of fun.

1087
01:01:31,280 --> 01:01:34,600
Speaker 3: And then back on the battlefield, the Witch is turning

1088
01:01:34,640 --> 01:01:38,120
Speaker 3: all of the good guys to stone with her wand

1089
01:01:38,720 --> 01:01:43,480
Speaker 3: so Edmund destroys the wand but then she stabs Edmund,

1090
01:01:43,800 --> 01:01:47,520
Speaker 3: so he's dying. Then Aslan shows up with everyone that

1091
01:01:47,600 --> 01:01:51,520
Speaker 3: he had brought back from being stone, and then Aslan

1092
01:01:52,320 --> 01:01:55,880
Speaker 3: attacks and kills the Witch in what should be like

1093
01:01:56,040 --> 01:01:58,960
Speaker 3: the big climax of the movie, but it feels very

1094
01:01:59,120 --> 01:02:00,400
Speaker 3: very anti climax.

1095
01:02:00,760 --> 01:02:03,560
Speaker 1: Which is wild because the like you're saying, the build

1096
01:02:03,640 --> 01:02:07,360
Speaker 1: up is massive, yeah, and then the yeah, the big kill,

1097
01:02:07,440 --> 01:02:10,800
Speaker 1: You're like like, oh, blanket, you ad miss it. But

1098
01:02:11,320 --> 01:02:13,440
Speaker 1: you know Edmund got stabbed, so.

1099
01:02:14,800 --> 01:02:19,160
Speaker 3: Right, and he's dying. So Lucy gives him some of

1100
01:02:19,200 --> 01:02:23,000
Speaker 3: her magic healing potion that Santa Claus gave her, which

1101
01:02:23,080 --> 01:02:26,560
Speaker 3: is a ridiculous sentence to say, amazing, and then he

1102
01:02:26,840 --> 01:02:30,440
Speaker 3: is absolutely fine now because this story is obsessed with

1103
01:02:31,080 --> 01:02:32,480
Speaker 3: bringing people back from the.

1104
01:02:32,440 --> 01:02:34,200
Speaker 1: Dead or near dead.

1105
01:02:35,120 --> 01:02:39,880
Speaker 3: Then the four siblings are crowned the Kings and Queens

1106
01:02:39,880 --> 01:02:44,480
Speaker 3: of Narnia at the Castle of care paravel just like

1107
01:02:44,560 --> 01:02:50,080
Speaker 3: the prophecy foretold, and peace is restored to Narnia, and

1108
01:02:50,160 --> 01:02:55,440
Speaker 3: then Aslan focks off to somewhere else because he's God

1109
01:02:55,560 --> 01:02:58,360
Speaker 3: or Jesus or something and he's got other things to do, but.

1110
01:02:58,680 --> 01:03:01,720
Speaker 1: He'll be back one day, just like they're always telling us.

1111
01:03:02,280 --> 01:03:05,000
Speaker 1: And I like how mister Tumnus is sort of tasked

1112
01:03:05,000 --> 01:03:08,920
Speaker 1: with having to explain that. He's like, yeah, you know, Jesus,

1113
01:03:09,840 --> 01:03:13,600
Speaker 1: He's just kind of like, we don't know, maybe we'll

1114
01:03:13,600 --> 01:03:15,640
Speaker 1: see him, maybe we want m m. And then he's like,

1115
01:03:15,640 --> 01:03:18,520
Speaker 1: all right, do you want any more sardines or whatever?

1116
01:03:21,000 --> 01:03:24,200
Speaker 1: And then we get that little moment with with Jim

1117
01:03:24,240 --> 01:03:27,720
Speaker 1: Bradbent where he's like he he maybe you'll go back someday.

1118
01:03:28,440 --> 01:03:32,480
Speaker 3: Oh yes. So the last beat here, or the last

1119
01:03:32,520 --> 01:03:37,160
Speaker 3: few beats here, are that the siblings rule over Narnia

1120
01:03:37,200 --> 01:03:41,200
Speaker 3: for a couple decades. They become adults and one day

1121
01:03:41,200 --> 01:03:44,200
Speaker 3: they're out hunting in the woods and they happen upon

1122
01:03:44,560 --> 01:03:49,040
Speaker 3: the lamp post near the entrance to Narnia and they're like, hmm,

1123
01:03:49,720 --> 01:03:51,920
Speaker 3: that's kind of familiar, what's all this? And then they

1124
01:03:51,960 --> 01:03:54,920
Speaker 3: go and they find the coats and the next thing

1125
01:03:54,960 --> 01:03:58,840
Speaker 3: they know, they're tumbling out of the wardrobe. Except they're

1126
01:03:58,920 --> 01:04:02,840
Speaker 3: back to being children and no time has passed. So

1127
01:04:02,960 --> 01:04:09,120
Speaker 3: imagine like growing into adulthood, living this whole life as

1128
01:04:09,240 --> 01:04:11,600
Speaker 3: like whatever, like imperial.

1129
01:04:11,120 --> 01:04:14,960
Speaker 1: Ass like yeah, but yeah, just like living being in Narnia,

1130
01:04:15,200 --> 01:04:19,000
Speaker 1: living out an entire fantasy. It is interesting that they

1131
01:04:19,040 --> 01:04:21,960
Speaker 1: make that detail because again, like we'll get into it,

1132
01:04:22,000 --> 01:04:26,720
Speaker 1: but like Susan later stops going in Narnia, h And

1133
01:04:27,280 --> 01:04:30,560
Speaker 1: I'm sort of like, well, yeah, I mean like possible

1134
01:04:31,000 --> 01:04:33,760
Speaker 1: that she's over it. She sounds like she's really put

1135
01:04:33,840 --> 01:04:36,120
Speaker 1: in a lot of time there. Yeah, but they make

1136
01:04:36,160 --> 01:04:38,120
Speaker 1: it out to be this big well we'll talk about it,

1137
01:04:38,160 --> 01:04:39,360
Speaker 1: but they make it out to be this big thing.

1138
01:04:39,400 --> 01:04:41,440
Speaker 1: I'm like, you know what, You're allowed to move on.

1139
01:04:42,080 --> 01:04:44,640
Speaker 3: Sure, but yeah, it's just so weird that like they

1140
01:04:44,680 --> 01:04:48,080
Speaker 3: grow into adulthood, they're like in their thirties maybe, and

1141
01:04:48,080 --> 01:04:50,680
Speaker 3: then they revert back to childhood.

1142
01:04:51,040 --> 01:04:53,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they're like, oh, why, my dad, it's still

1143
01:04:53,760 --> 01:04:54,520
Speaker 1: World War two?

1144
01:04:55,040 --> 01:04:58,040
Speaker 3: Like yeah, because like no time has passed. So they're

1145
01:04:58,040 --> 01:05:01,360
Speaker 3: still at the professor's house and the professor comes in

1146
01:05:02,200 --> 01:05:08,280
Speaker 3: and says basically welcome back from Narnia. Did you have

1147
01:05:08,320 --> 01:05:11,520
Speaker 3: a nice time? Because he's been there too, is.

1148
01:05:11,480 --> 01:05:15,000
Speaker 1: What it's implied. The end, the end.

1149
01:05:15,480 --> 01:05:17,600
Speaker 3: So let's take another quick break and then we'll come

1150
01:05:17,640 --> 01:05:28,400
Speaker 3: back to discuss.

1151
01:05:29,320 --> 01:05:33,640
Speaker 1: And we're back, all right, Where do we start? I

1152
01:05:33,680 --> 01:05:36,440
Speaker 1: feel like we've started. I mean, we've like touched on

1153
01:05:36,480 --> 01:05:39,960
Speaker 1: a lot of my bigger notes, like story wise for this,

1154
01:05:40,400 --> 01:05:42,760
Speaker 1: which is that like I don't know, like it's not

1155
01:05:42,880 --> 01:05:44,960
Speaker 1: as bad as it could be. I guess for a

1156
01:05:45,000 --> 01:05:47,920
Speaker 1: movie that's like pretty faithfully adapting a book from nineteen fifty.

1157
01:05:48,760 --> 01:05:51,360
Speaker 1: But I mean I think that the big sort of

1158
01:05:51,440 --> 01:05:55,600
Speaker 1: sweeping things going on here are it falls down like

1159
01:05:56,000 --> 01:06:00,280
Speaker 1: very very very traditional gender lines. Yes, gender lion, you

1160
01:06:00,440 --> 01:06:04,400
Speaker 1: might even say, I guess with the except the White Witch,

1161
01:06:04,440 --> 01:06:06,960
Speaker 1: there's like a little more going on there, but not

1162
01:06:07,040 --> 01:06:10,600
Speaker 1: necessarily in a positive way. But if we're talking about

1163
01:06:10,600 --> 01:06:13,960
Speaker 1: the kids, I'm sort of of two minds about it

1164
01:06:14,040 --> 01:06:17,880
Speaker 1: right where it's like I was surprised that the girls

1165
01:06:18,280 --> 01:06:20,280
Speaker 1: were doing as much as they were for a book

1166
01:06:20,280 --> 01:06:23,960
Speaker 1: of this age. But there are those broad like they

1167
01:06:24,000 --> 01:06:27,919
Speaker 1: are not allowed to go to battle. They are sort

1168
01:06:27,960 --> 01:06:33,720
Speaker 1: of tasked with the emotional burdens of I read that

1169
01:06:34,080 --> 01:06:37,920
Speaker 1: like Susan and Lucy in the like religious read of

1170
01:06:38,000 --> 01:06:41,640
Speaker 1: this book, you know, are supposed to almost like represent

1171
01:06:41,680 --> 01:06:46,040
Speaker 1: Mary Magdalen of like witnessing the death of Christ and

1172
01:06:46,080 --> 01:06:49,640
Speaker 1: then like having to and then witnessing his resurrection. I

1173
01:06:49,680 --> 01:06:52,840
Speaker 1: don't know, I don't know maybe but anyways, you know,

1174
01:06:53,040 --> 01:06:54,520
Speaker 1: I think the big thing is they don't get to

1175
01:06:54,520 --> 01:06:58,200
Speaker 1: go to war. Susan's character I thought was very kind

1176
01:06:58,240 --> 01:07:03,000
Speaker 1: of She's constantly golden for like thinking too hard. Yeah,

1177
01:07:03,240 --> 01:07:06,280
Speaker 1: where you know Peter, I mean Peter and Susan. It's like,

1178
01:07:07,080 --> 01:07:10,520
Speaker 1: in some ways it's like just an antagonistic sibling relationship.

1179
01:07:10,520 --> 01:07:13,280
Speaker 1: They're the two eldest. There is a moment that I

1180
01:07:13,560 --> 01:07:16,480
Speaker 1: couldn't even tell how intended it was, but towards the

1181
01:07:16,520 --> 01:07:18,520
Speaker 1: beginning when the kids are being put on the train,

1182
01:07:19,440 --> 01:07:22,760
Speaker 1: where their mom is referring to Peter as a man

1183
01:07:22,840 --> 01:07:26,320
Speaker 1: and saying to like look out for everyone, and Susan

1184
01:07:26,400 --> 01:07:28,400
Speaker 1: is referred to as a girl, and it seems to

1185
01:07:28,480 --> 01:07:30,600
Speaker 1: kind of bother her, Like I think that she wants

1186
01:07:30,640 --> 01:07:32,960
Speaker 1: to take more of a leadership role. Maybe this is

1187
01:07:33,000 --> 01:07:34,919
Speaker 1: me Headcandon yet, but like it seems like she wants

1188
01:07:34,960 --> 01:07:37,200
Speaker 1: to take more of a leadership role that Peter has

1189
01:07:37,280 --> 01:07:40,480
Speaker 1: been given as like quote unquote the man of the house,

1190
01:07:41,000 --> 01:07:44,200
Speaker 1: which I do think it is intentional. He clearly is

1191
01:07:44,320 --> 01:07:49,200
Speaker 1: struggling with like he wants to fight in a war

1192
01:07:49,400 --> 01:07:54,520
Speaker 1: like his father, right, and like that is presented pretty unambiguously.

1193
01:07:54,760 --> 01:07:56,400
Speaker 1: I don't think that there's a lot of thought into it,

1194
01:07:56,440 --> 01:07:59,360
Speaker 1: but like, you know, it makes sense that he then

1195
01:07:59,800 --> 01:08:03,200
Speaker 1: is very quick to enlist in the Narnia War or

1196
01:08:03,240 --> 01:08:05,800
Speaker 1: whatever because he wants to be like Daddy.

1197
01:08:05,960 --> 01:08:08,400
Speaker 3: He's like, oh, well, Santa Claus gave me a sword,

1198
01:08:08,560 --> 01:08:09,840
Speaker 3: so I have to use it.

1199
01:08:10,080 --> 01:08:12,120
Speaker 1: But I will say I don't think that this movie

1200
01:08:12,120 --> 01:08:14,000
Speaker 1: boils down to being like fathers and sons like you

1201
01:08:14,040 --> 01:08:18,080
Speaker 1: would expect. True, it is kind of like about Jesus

1202
01:08:18,080 --> 01:08:22,400
Speaker 1: and a bunch of kids, Yeah, lions and children, and

1203
01:08:22,439 --> 01:08:25,240
Speaker 1: I think there is I think of the four kids,

1204
01:08:25,439 --> 01:08:32,080
Speaker 1: Lucy is sort of the most memorable, and also I

1205
01:08:32,080 --> 01:08:34,719
Speaker 1: think in the world of the books because she becomes

1206
01:08:34,760 --> 01:08:38,400
Speaker 1: the protagonist of three out of the seven books and

1207
01:08:38,439 --> 01:08:42,040
Speaker 1: the other kids sort of fall by the way side.

1208
01:08:43,000 --> 01:08:46,240
Speaker 1: A star is born twenty eighteen, but whatever, just keeping

1209
01:08:46,240 --> 01:08:49,840
Speaker 1: it focused on this, I like that Lucy is the

1210
01:08:49,960 --> 01:08:53,960
Speaker 1: kid who discovers Narnia, who sticks to her guns about

1211
01:08:54,040 --> 01:08:58,559
Speaker 1: it exists, and that her siblings, with the exception of Edmund,

1212
01:08:58,560 --> 01:09:02,200
Speaker 1: who we hate, apologize to her and you know, like

1213
01:09:02,479 --> 01:09:06,840
Speaker 1: see her worth and value throughout. So I don't know,

1214
01:09:06,920 --> 01:09:09,760
Speaker 1: I mean, I think the big thing for me is

1215
01:09:09,960 --> 01:09:13,680
Speaker 1: Susan being underwritten and the girls are not allowed to

1216
01:09:13,680 --> 01:09:17,160
Speaker 1: participate in the big action piece. But that's more of

1217
01:09:17,160 --> 01:09:20,120
Speaker 1: a criticism of the movie than the book, because the

1218
01:09:20,160 --> 01:09:23,320
Speaker 1: book is like, the battle scenes are so short.

1219
01:09:23,479 --> 01:09:27,080
Speaker 3: Right, The movie takes a lot of liberties with the

1220
01:09:27,120 --> 01:09:30,160
Speaker 3: battle scenes, so it easily could have made adjustments to

1221
01:09:30,280 --> 01:09:34,800
Speaker 3: be more inclusive of the girls, but it doesn't. And

1222
01:09:34,840 --> 01:09:37,200
Speaker 3: this is like, this is what like most of my

1223
01:09:37,320 --> 01:09:40,439
Speaker 3: notes are about. So yeah, I'll just kind of give

1224
01:09:40,479 --> 01:09:44,320
Speaker 3: my little spiel here. Where As we've said, this movie

1225
01:09:44,360 --> 01:09:49,280
Speaker 3: is a fairly faithful adaptation with a few exceptions. As

1226
01:09:49,320 --> 01:09:53,360
Speaker 3: far as the script seems to add a few, like again,

1227
01:09:53,479 --> 01:09:59,240
Speaker 3: actiony set pieces, it heightens tension. It generally just makes

1228
01:09:59,280 --> 01:10:04,000
Speaker 3: the story more cinematic and like an action y so

1229
01:10:04,080 --> 01:10:07,160
Speaker 3: for example, like the part where the wolves are chasing them,

1230
01:10:07,680 --> 01:10:09,400
Speaker 3: the set piece at the river.

1231
01:10:09,439 --> 01:10:13,639
Speaker 1: Like all the clunky CGI stuff feels like it's expanded added.

1232
01:10:13,920 --> 01:10:16,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, because those beats are in the book. But

1233
01:10:16,720 --> 01:10:19,559
Speaker 3: like in the book, the wolves are following them, but

1234
01:10:19,600 --> 01:10:22,599
Speaker 3: they never really get that close to the children, Like

1235
01:10:22,920 --> 01:10:26,080
Speaker 3: on their journey to the Stone Table, the kids do

1236
01:10:26,160 --> 01:10:28,439
Speaker 3: have to cross the river, but in the book it's

1237
01:10:28,479 --> 01:10:31,760
Speaker 3: not like the ice is breaking apart, the wolves aren't there,

1238
01:10:32,200 --> 01:10:34,599
Speaker 3: Lucy doesn't almost drown. So there's these like.

1239
01:10:34,680 --> 01:10:38,320
Speaker 1: You can see it few changes. It's so like kind

1240
01:10:38,320 --> 01:10:40,639
Speaker 1: of funny where it's like this movie is so clearly

1241
01:10:40,760 --> 01:10:44,679
Speaker 1: in conversation with the very successful Lord at the Rings

1242
01:10:44,720 --> 01:10:46,599
Speaker 1: movies that just came out totally. Yeah.

1243
01:10:46,640 --> 01:10:50,439
Speaker 3: Absolutely, And then again, as we alluded to earlier, like

1244
01:10:51,200 --> 01:10:55,040
Speaker 3: I'd imagine that one of the reasons that the battle

1245
01:10:55,120 --> 01:10:59,080
Speaker 3: scene is so expanded upon for this movie is to

1246
01:10:59,120 --> 01:11:01,960
Speaker 3: sort of like capitalize on the success of.

1247
01:11:01,800 --> 01:11:03,960
Speaker 1: The Lord of the Rings movies, which, like the Lord

1248
01:11:03,960 --> 01:11:07,679
Speaker 1: of the Rings movies, you know, kind of famously include

1249
01:11:07,840 --> 01:11:13,400
Speaker 1: women in battle scenes in key moments include one woman. Look,

1250
01:11:13,520 --> 01:11:16,759
Speaker 1: I'm not saying it's great. I actually do think in general,

1251
01:11:16,880 --> 01:11:22,480
Speaker 1: Chronicles and Narnia does pretty squarely better on just including

1252
01:11:22,520 --> 01:11:24,960
Speaker 1: women in the story for sure than Lord of the

1253
01:11:25,000 --> 01:11:25,920
Speaker 1: Rings for sure.

1254
01:11:26,280 --> 01:11:31,240
Speaker 3: But in this movie, not in the battle. Actually, as

1255
01:11:31,240 --> 01:11:34,120
Speaker 3: we've been talking about, so again, there's the big battle

1256
01:11:34,120 --> 01:11:38,000
Speaker 3: at the end. And as I'm like rewatching this movie,

1257
01:11:38,240 --> 01:11:41,120
Speaker 3: you know, through the beachdal Lens for the first time,

1258
01:11:41,920 --> 01:11:45,360
Speaker 3: and I've just reread the book, I'm like, Okay, maybe

1259
01:11:45,360 --> 01:11:48,720
Speaker 3: this adaptation is going to give the girls more of

1260
01:11:48,760 --> 01:11:52,880
Speaker 3: a chance to participate in the battle, especially after Santa

1261
01:11:52,920 --> 01:11:56,160
Speaker 3: Claus gives them their gifts, because what happens here every

1262
01:11:56,240 --> 01:11:56,680
Speaker 3: time we.

1263
01:11:56,640 --> 01:12:01,120
Speaker 1: Say Santa Claus, I'm just like, right, And Santa Claus

1264
01:12:01,160 --> 01:12:01,320
Speaker 1: is in.

1265
01:12:01,360 --> 01:12:03,960
Speaker 3: The Santa Claus is in the movie as a character.

1266
01:12:05,080 --> 01:12:12,400
Speaker 1: He's warmongering Santa Claus like Mary, He's a merry Christmas,

1267
01:12:12,400 --> 01:12:14,040
Speaker 1: go kill a guy, like.

1268
01:12:14,040 --> 01:12:19,320
Speaker 3: It's yeah wow. So so in the book, Santa Claus

1269
01:12:20,080 --> 01:12:24,599
Speaker 3: gives Lucy the dagger and Susan the bow and arrow,

1270
01:12:24,800 --> 01:12:28,120
Speaker 3: and then he says, hopefully you don't have to use

1271
01:12:28,200 --> 01:12:32,080
Speaker 3: these battles are ugly when women fight.

1272
01:12:32,680 --> 01:12:37,560
Speaker 1: And this is a C. S. Lewis to get into C. S.

1273
01:12:37,640 --> 01:12:42,880
Speaker 1: Lewis's attitude towards women very briefly, like there's to say

1274
01:12:42,880 --> 01:12:48,200
Speaker 1: he's better than talking on gender isn't really saying very much, right,

1275
01:12:48,360 --> 01:12:50,760
Speaker 1: But there are you know, throughout the Narnia series there

1276
01:12:50,760 --> 01:12:54,559
Speaker 1: are a series of women protagonists, not just I mean

1277
01:12:54,640 --> 01:13:01,320
Speaker 1: Lucy Pevensey is a major protagonist throughout. There's also oh gosh,

1278
01:13:02,000 --> 01:13:04,600
Speaker 1: let me see if I can find the names of

1279
01:13:04,640 --> 01:13:08,200
Speaker 1: these characters. But there's like no fewer than I think

1280
01:13:08,600 --> 01:13:12,360
Speaker 1: three to four of the books where there are young

1281
01:13:12,400 --> 01:13:18,240
Speaker 1: women at the front of the story. However, C. S.

1282
01:13:18,280 --> 01:13:23,519
Speaker 1: Lewis himself for a great chunk of his life and career,

1283
01:13:24,200 --> 01:13:26,200
Speaker 1: while it seems like, you know, on a one to

1284
01:13:26,240 --> 01:13:30,040
Speaker 1: one basis, he was like not like out and out

1285
01:13:30,120 --> 01:13:32,960
Speaker 1: like fuck all women, but very of his time where

1286
01:13:33,000 --> 01:13:35,560
Speaker 1: the big thing with him was he was a professor

1287
01:13:35,960 --> 01:13:40,800
Speaker 1: at Oxford and then Cambridge because British and he was

1288
01:13:41,000 --> 01:13:45,479
Speaker 1: very against women going to I think it was Cambridge,

1289
01:13:45,760 --> 01:13:48,559
Speaker 1: which it seems like, again it's so hard because there's

1290
01:13:48,680 --> 01:13:51,479
Speaker 1: a people who are very invested in caping for him,

1291
01:13:51,600 --> 01:13:54,360
Speaker 1: So this might be an overly generous read. It seems

1292
01:13:54,360 --> 01:13:57,799
Speaker 1: like as he got older, and particularly once he married

1293
01:13:57,960 --> 01:14:04,320
Speaker 1: a really cool woman, his views on gender evolved towards

1294
01:14:04,360 --> 01:14:06,360
Speaker 1: the end of his life. But I think like for

1295
01:14:06,439 --> 01:14:11,120
Speaker 1: most of his career he you know, tolerated women but

1296
01:14:11,400 --> 01:14:15,160
Speaker 1: wasn't an ally, let's say, but did I don't know, sure,

1297
01:14:15,200 --> 01:14:18,240
Speaker 1: it's tricky anyways, that's all right. Yeah.

1298
01:14:18,280 --> 01:14:22,960
Speaker 3: So in the book, Santa Claus is like, battles are

1299
01:14:23,040 --> 01:14:26,800
Speaker 3: ugly when women fight. In the movie, this line gets

1300
01:14:26,960 --> 01:14:32,560
Speaker 3: changed to Santa Claus simply saying battles are ugly affairs.

1301
01:14:32,760 --> 01:14:37,679
Speaker 3: So this gendered language is removed from the movie adaptation.

1302
01:14:37,880 --> 01:14:40,280
Speaker 3: So I'm wondering, okay, like if the movie is gonna

1303
01:14:40,479 --> 01:14:44,559
Speaker 3: lean into the action and the fighting and we've sort

1304
01:14:44,600 --> 01:14:48,800
Speaker 3: of removed this gendered line of Santa Claus is, will

1305
01:14:48,840 --> 01:14:51,840
Speaker 3: the sisters be allowed to participate as much as the brothers,

1306
01:14:52,520 --> 01:14:56,400
Speaker 3: especially because they've been given weapons. But the answer, as

1307
01:14:56,439 --> 01:14:58,680
Speaker 3: we keep saying, is still no.

1308
01:14:59,400 --> 01:14:59,639
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1309
01:14:59,680 --> 01:15:03,120
Speaker 3: I mean I get why Lucy because she's so young,

1310
01:15:03,520 --> 01:15:05,519
Speaker 3: I understand why she would not be put in the

1311
01:15:05,560 --> 01:15:10,040
Speaker 3: middle of battle. But Susan seems to be pretty close

1312
01:15:10,080 --> 01:15:13,040
Speaker 3: in age to Peter. She has a bow and arrow.

1313
01:15:13,160 --> 01:15:16,280
Speaker 3: I think she uses it one time to kill Deep

1314
01:15:16,360 --> 01:15:17,160
Speaker 3: Roy's character.

1315
01:15:17,520 --> 01:15:20,080
Speaker 1: I think that that is Yeah, it felt very like

1316
01:15:20,280 --> 01:15:23,479
Speaker 1: that old school, like that mcsweeze article we used to

1317
01:15:23,840 --> 01:15:25,320
Speaker 1: quote a lot where it's like she gets to do

1318
01:15:25,439 --> 01:15:28,719
Speaker 1: one thing. Yep, I because you just read the book.

1319
01:15:28,760 --> 01:15:32,240
Speaker 1: I reread the I don't remember the specifics here does

1320
01:15:32,760 --> 01:15:36,799
Speaker 1: she get to use the weapon because it felt almost

1321
01:15:36,840 --> 01:15:40,680
Speaker 1: like like, let's have her train with the Like we

1322
01:15:40,720 --> 01:15:43,479
Speaker 1: see her training with the weapon. She very intentionally is like,

1323
01:15:43,560 --> 01:15:46,559
Speaker 1: I have to go practice, yes, so that she can

1324
01:15:46,680 --> 01:15:48,640
Speaker 1: use it once at the end of the movie. But

1325
01:15:48,680 --> 01:15:50,720
Speaker 1: I was like kind of frustrated. I think for the

1326
01:15:50,720 --> 01:15:54,040
Speaker 1: same reason of like, the movie is setting it up

1327
01:15:54,120 --> 01:15:54,879
Speaker 1: so that they're.

1328
01:15:54,680 --> 01:15:59,679
Speaker 3: Involved, right, because also Lucy like flings her dagger at

1329
01:15:59,760 --> 01:16:02,120
Speaker 3: the target like during the targer practice thing, and then

1330
01:16:02,160 --> 01:16:04,240
Speaker 3: hits a bull's eye, And first of all, I'm like,

1331
01:16:04,520 --> 01:16:07,320
Speaker 3: I mean, maybe she's a child protist gee at the

1332
01:16:07,479 --> 01:16:10,760
Speaker 3: dagger throwing, but like she's also seven years old, So

1333
01:16:11,000 --> 01:16:12,160
Speaker 3: are we sure about that?

1334
01:16:12,280 --> 01:16:15,160
Speaker 1: I'm well, I'm willing to suspend my displate that Diva

1335
01:16:15,200 --> 01:16:16,280
Speaker 1: can do anything to me.

1336
01:16:16,600 --> 01:16:19,799
Speaker 3: Well, okay, sure, but yeah, it is. It is setting

1337
01:16:19,840 --> 01:16:23,000
Speaker 3: it up because again, they're training, they're practicing with their weapons.

1338
01:16:23,320 --> 01:16:27,840
Speaker 3: It seems like they're gonna participate, but pretty much not. Yeah,

1339
01:16:27,880 --> 01:16:30,599
Speaker 3: the moment when Susan does use her bow and arrow

1340
01:16:30,640 --> 01:16:35,320
Speaker 3: to kill the deep Roy character, it is to save Edmund,

1341
01:16:36,080 --> 01:16:40,720
Speaker 3: So we do see you know, a girl saving a boy.

1342
01:16:41,560 --> 01:16:43,280
Speaker 3: So that's something.

1343
01:16:43,800 --> 01:16:47,760
Speaker 1: Again, it's it's like more than you might expect, but

1344
01:16:48,040 --> 01:16:51,519
Speaker 1: still not a lot, is sort of what it came

1345
01:16:51,600 --> 01:16:52,160
Speaker 1: down to.

1346
01:16:53,000 --> 01:16:56,799
Speaker 3: And then also so it does take Edmund a while

1347
01:16:56,840 --> 01:16:59,879
Speaker 3: to join in the battle. He's sort of like standing

1348
01:17:00,080 --> 01:17:04,000
Speaker 3: way off in the back in the distance with the

1349
01:17:04,040 --> 01:17:09,480
Speaker 3: beavers and with what appears to be women's centaurs.

1350
01:17:10,160 --> 01:17:15,040
Speaker 1: The women's centaurs. I noticed this.

1351
01:17:15,120 --> 01:17:18,240
Speaker 3: Okay, so the man's centaurs they're fighting in the battle

1352
01:17:18,560 --> 01:17:22,519
Speaker 3: on the front lines. The women's centaurs apparently are not

1353
01:17:22,680 --> 01:17:28,639
Speaker 3: allowed to fight on the front lines. Like we're basically

1354
01:17:28,680 --> 01:17:32,240
Speaker 3: not doing anything. One of them fires a bow and arrow,

1355
01:17:32,280 --> 01:17:36,839
Speaker 3: the arrow turns into a bird that turns into fire,

1356
01:17:37,640 --> 01:17:40,200
Speaker 3: and then like creates that sort of like fire blockade thing.

1357
01:17:40,600 --> 01:17:45,200
Speaker 1: It's frustrating. I feel like this is very emblematic of

1358
01:17:45,320 --> 01:17:49,880
Speaker 1: the two thousands of Like clearly these productions are aware

1359
01:17:50,120 --> 01:17:55,720
Speaker 1: enough of feminism women in general that they're willing to

1360
01:17:55,840 --> 01:18:00,880
Speaker 1: add these sort of like bread crummy kind of of things.

1361
01:18:01,120 --> 01:18:04,040
Speaker 1: Susan gets to do something once a woman centaur does

1362
01:18:04,120 --> 01:18:06,680
Speaker 1: one thing, and it's like, okay, so you know what

1363
01:18:06,720 --> 01:18:10,200
Speaker 1: you're doing, Like obviously we know that but it's just

1364
01:18:10,200 --> 01:18:13,080
Speaker 1: frustrating to see movies of this era, I mean and

1365
01:18:13,720 --> 01:18:17,160
Speaker 1: movies and this era. I mean, this continues for years

1366
01:18:17,160 --> 01:18:19,760
Speaker 1: and years and years, like this continues throughout the like

1367
01:18:19,880 --> 01:18:24,679
Speaker 1: Avengers franchise. But it's just it's so irritating to see.

1368
01:18:24,680 --> 01:18:28,080
Speaker 1: I didn't even pick up on the woman's centaur moment,

1369
01:18:28,240 --> 01:18:31,160
Speaker 1: which is like you're like sure, but it's like it's

1370
01:18:31,160 --> 01:18:33,240
Speaker 1: I don't know. Sometimes I'm like, it's almost worse than nothing.

1371
01:18:33,680 --> 01:18:37,639
Speaker 3: The women centaurs are like relegated to the to being

1372
01:18:37,680 --> 01:18:41,240
Speaker 3: way in the back with a literal child, and the

1373
01:18:41,240 --> 01:18:45,200
Speaker 3: beavers like basically the people who can't fight for shit.

1374
01:18:45,680 --> 01:18:48,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I mean yeah, I was like, do I

1375
01:18:48,200 --> 01:18:51,320
Speaker 1: want like Lucy, you know, out there with a with

1376
01:18:51,360 --> 01:18:55,639
Speaker 1: a glock? No? No, so, but yeah, Susan, I mean Susan.

1377
01:18:55,680 --> 01:18:58,920
Speaker 1: It just again they give you the little bread crummy moment,

1378
01:18:59,000 --> 01:19:02,000
Speaker 1: but you don't really get the full you know, what

1379
01:19:02,439 --> 01:19:04,400
Speaker 1: our character deserves and what it seems like the movie

1380
01:19:04,479 --> 01:19:07,040
Speaker 1: is building up to, and so what I've seen a

1381
01:19:07,040 --> 01:19:09,280
Speaker 1: lot in a lot of the Christian reads of this

1382
01:19:09,960 --> 01:19:14,480
Speaker 1: movie that it is thought to be by some a

1383
01:19:14,560 --> 01:19:19,920
Speaker 1: showing of deference and respect to the girls that they

1384
01:19:20,040 --> 01:19:24,120
Speaker 1: are the ones that Aslan trusts to witness, like he

1385
01:19:24,240 --> 01:19:29,000
Speaker 1: chooses them to witness this and to witness his resurrection

1386
01:19:29,560 --> 01:19:33,599
Speaker 1: versus the boys. It almost feels like whatever if we're

1387
01:19:33,640 --> 01:19:35,920
Speaker 1: going with the allegorical read that C. S. Lewis kind

1388
01:19:35,920 --> 01:19:39,840
Speaker 1: of waffles on over the years that he's favoring Mary

1389
01:19:39,880 --> 01:19:46,880
Speaker 1: Magdalen over the Disciples. Again, I'm like, not whatever, that's

1390
01:19:46,960 --> 01:19:49,800
Speaker 1: just there's that. But I do think like if we're

1391
01:19:49,840 --> 01:19:52,120
Speaker 1: reworking like this movie, like you're saying, takes a lot

1392
01:19:52,160 --> 01:19:55,000
Speaker 1: of liberties, expands on a lot of stuff, just jush

1393
01:19:55,040 --> 01:19:57,559
Speaker 1: the timeline and have them be able to be present

1394
01:19:57,600 --> 01:20:00,439
Speaker 1: at the battle Aslan's whatever behind them whatever. That's like,

1395
01:20:00,800 --> 01:20:02,280
Speaker 1: it's it's Narnia.

1396
01:20:02,600 --> 01:20:05,280
Speaker 3: Just make it up right, Like Aslan shows up with

1397
01:20:05,840 --> 01:20:08,719
Speaker 3: the sisters and the rest of the army and then

1398
01:20:09,160 --> 01:20:11,800
Speaker 3: and then that's when the battle maybe really kicks off,

1399
01:20:11,920 --> 01:20:14,760
Speaker 3: Like right, not that hard to do.

1400
01:20:15,479 --> 01:20:17,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I'm going to talk a little bit more

1401
01:20:17,880 --> 01:20:21,559
Speaker 1: about Susan if it's okay, Yeah, please, So canonically, there's

1402
01:20:21,600 --> 01:20:25,640
Speaker 1: a whole thing around Susan that a later generation of

1403
01:20:25,760 --> 01:20:30,200
Speaker 1: fantasy writers, they all have something to say about Susan.

1404
01:20:30,240 --> 01:20:34,040
Speaker 1: Pevensey and two of them are now deeply disgraced because

1405
01:20:34,080 --> 01:20:38,040
Speaker 1: it's Neil Gayman and JK. Rowling. But Susan Pevensey. So

1406
01:20:38,200 --> 01:20:44,960
Speaker 1: she is in let me be completely sure, she is

1407
01:20:45,160 --> 01:20:47,599
Speaker 1: in The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, and then

1408
01:20:47,640 --> 01:20:52,439
Speaker 1: she's in little bits of the other books. She's in

1409
01:20:53,120 --> 01:20:57,000
Speaker 1: all of Prince Caspian. She is basically written out of

1410
01:20:57,600 --> 01:21:00,840
Speaker 1: Voyage of the Dawn Treader. She has little parts in

1411
01:21:00,920 --> 01:21:04,639
Speaker 1: The Horse and His Boy. But so in the Last Battle,

1412
01:21:04,680 --> 01:21:08,200
Speaker 1: one of the Narnian books, we are given a reason

1413
01:21:08,360 --> 01:21:11,880
Speaker 1: why Susan is no longer present. So Narnia, I don't

1414
01:21:11,920 --> 01:21:15,840
Speaker 1: know it works. I think it's easiest to explain in

1415
01:21:15,920 --> 01:21:19,920
Speaker 1: like polar express logic, where you like whatever, the kid

1416
01:21:19,920 --> 01:21:21,599
Speaker 1: can hear the bell if they believe in Santa. If

1417
01:21:21,600 --> 01:21:24,160
Speaker 1: they don't believe, they can't. So the way that Narnia

1418
01:21:24,160 --> 01:21:28,800
Speaker 1: appears to work is that kids go to Narnia to

1419
01:21:29,120 --> 01:21:34,200
Speaker 1: learn that Jesus is awesome, and then after a while

1420
01:21:34,240 --> 01:21:37,960
Speaker 1: you're no longer able to access Narnia. I wasn't able

1421
01:21:38,000 --> 01:21:41,400
Speaker 1: to find like a consistent reason why this is. C. S.

1422
01:21:41,479 --> 01:21:44,320
Speaker 1: Lewis explains it, and because he had all these fan letters,

1423
01:21:44,360 --> 01:21:46,920
Speaker 1: he would write He explains it at some points as like,

1424
01:21:47,240 --> 01:21:51,720
Speaker 1: when you understand the importance of Aslan in Narnia, then

1425
01:21:51,760 --> 01:21:54,280
Speaker 1: you can understand the importance of Jesus in the regular world,

1426
01:21:54,680 --> 01:21:57,400
Speaker 1: and you don't need to go to Narnia anymore. But

1427
01:21:57,560 --> 01:22:01,960
Speaker 1: the way he talks about Susan is this is how

1428
01:22:02,080 --> 01:22:05,360
Speaker 1: Susan is talked about in the Last Battle. She's being

1429
01:22:05,360 --> 01:22:10,320
Speaker 1: talked about by another young woman, Jill Poll. So they

1430
01:22:10,400 --> 01:22:14,000
Speaker 1: frame it as if Susan has had a spiritual downfall

1431
01:22:14,040 --> 01:22:16,200
Speaker 1: in a way a lot of people read as misogynists,

1432
01:22:16,200 --> 01:22:20,800
Speaker 1: and I agree, okay, quote Oh Susan, said Jill. She's

1433
01:22:20,840 --> 01:22:24,680
Speaker 1: interested in nothing nowadays except nylons and lipsticks and invitations.

1434
01:22:25,120 --> 01:22:27,400
Speaker 1: She always was a jolly sight too, keen on being

1435
01:22:27,439 --> 01:22:30,320
Speaker 1: grown up. Grown up indeed, said the lady Polly, I

1436
01:22:30,360 --> 01:22:32,479
Speaker 1: wish she would grow up. She wasted all her school

1437
01:22:32,520 --> 01:22:34,120
Speaker 1: time wanting to be the age she is now, and

1438
01:22:34,160 --> 01:22:36,120
Speaker 1: now she'll waste all the rest of her life trying

1439
01:22:36,120 --> 01:22:38,280
Speaker 1: to stay that age. Her whole idea is to race

1440
01:22:38,320 --> 01:22:40,400
Speaker 1: onto the silliest time of one's life as quick as

1441
01:22:40,439 --> 01:22:42,960
Speaker 1: she can, and then stop there as long as she can.

1442
01:22:43,880 --> 01:22:46,960
Speaker 1: So wow, I know, like basically they're like, oh, she

1443
01:22:47,400 --> 01:22:52,120
Speaker 1: came of age and now she's into silly woman stuff, right.

1444
01:22:52,640 --> 01:22:55,479
Speaker 1: And the argument against that is that like, oh, well,

1445
01:22:55,479 --> 01:22:58,360
Speaker 1: he's just writing about kids growing up and becoming interested

1446
01:22:58,360 --> 01:23:00,439
Speaker 1: in adult things. But I think I think that what

1447
01:23:00,560 --> 01:23:03,840
Speaker 1: chafes with that is Peter eventually can't go to in Narnia either,

1448
01:23:04,120 --> 01:23:07,519
Speaker 1: and it's not framed that way even remotely. Edmund can

1449
01:23:07,560 --> 01:23:09,880
Speaker 1: eventually not go to Narnia, like all of the kids

1450
01:23:09,920 --> 01:23:13,040
Speaker 1: age out of Narnia at some point, which doesn't really

1451
01:23:13,080 --> 01:23:15,840
Speaker 1: make sense because like you're saying their maturity levels like

1452
01:23:15,880 --> 01:23:20,200
Speaker 1: all over the place, right, But anyways, it's been like

1453
01:23:20,240 --> 01:23:23,240
Speaker 1: something that's been sort of talked about for seventy seventy

1454
01:23:23,240 --> 01:23:26,360
Speaker 1: five years now about like it's generally thought that Susan

1455
01:23:26,439 --> 01:23:28,760
Speaker 1: is done dirty in the books in general, because she's

1456
01:23:28,840 --> 01:23:32,640
Speaker 1: underwritten to begin with, and then he just writes her

1457
01:23:32,680 --> 01:23:35,680
Speaker 1: out over time, being like oh she's like too silly,

1458
01:23:35,920 --> 01:23:39,320
Speaker 1: she likes lipstick too much, so she's actually not welcome

1459
01:23:39,920 --> 01:23:44,200
Speaker 1: in Christ's kingdom anymore. You're just like, oh, I don't

1460
01:23:44,240 --> 01:23:44,559
Speaker 1: love it.

1461
01:23:44,680 --> 01:23:47,519
Speaker 3: I mean the way that like teen girls are the

1462
01:23:47,560 --> 01:23:51,559
Speaker 3: recipients of so much vitriol for what they like, what

1463
01:23:51,560 --> 01:23:56,200
Speaker 3: they're interested in speaking very generally here. But and it's

1464
01:23:56,280 --> 01:24:01,000
Speaker 3: just like, well, that's just because the critics are old men,

1465
01:24:01,760 --> 01:24:02,080
Speaker 3: are C.

1466
01:24:02,280 --> 01:24:04,439
Speaker 1: S Lewis? Okay, So I have a quote from C.

1467
01:24:04,600 --> 01:24:07,360
Speaker 1: S Lewis that kind of confirms this. Misogynists raid of it?

1468
01:24:08,080 --> 01:24:11,640
Speaker 1: He says, Okay, so this is from a letter he

1469
01:24:11,680 --> 01:24:15,479
Speaker 1: wrote to a child because there were kids write again,

1470
01:24:15,560 --> 01:24:20,000
Speaker 1: being like, where's Susan? I miss Susan? And he says, quote,

1471
01:24:20,080 --> 01:24:22,240
Speaker 1: the books don't tell us what happened to Susan. She

1472
01:24:22,320 --> 01:24:24,240
Speaker 1: is left alive in this world at the end, having

1473
01:24:24,320 --> 01:24:27,080
Speaker 1: by then turned into a rather silly, conceited young woman.

1474
01:24:27,560 --> 01:24:29,360
Speaker 1: But there's plenty of time for her to mend, and

1475
01:24:29,400 --> 01:24:31,639
Speaker 1: perhaps she will get to Aslan's country in the end

1476
01:24:32,000 --> 01:24:35,040
Speaker 1: in her own way. So you're just like, you know,

1477
01:24:36,000 --> 01:24:39,280
Speaker 1: his explanations really do sort of bear out the worst

1478
01:24:39,320 --> 01:24:46,559
Speaker 1: faith reading of that choice, and it sucks. Justice for Susan,

1479
01:24:47,000 --> 01:24:51,400
Speaker 1: Justice for goddamn Susan. Yeah, Lucy, it doesn't seem like,

1480
01:24:51,520 --> 01:24:55,040
Speaker 1: you know, she is sort of dealt quite as bad

1481
01:24:55,080 --> 01:24:56,800
Speaker 1: a hand as Susan. But it's also I think just

1482
01:24:56,840 --> 01:24:59,640
Speaker 1: because she's younger, and clearly C. S Lewis has a

1483
01:24:59,640 --> 01:25:03,120
Speaker 1: bone to pick with like young women coming of age.

1484
01:25:03,240 --> 01:25:05,960
Speaker 3: I don't know, Well, he never saw it happen because

1485
01:25:05,960 --> 01:25:08,519
Speaker 3: he went off to war and then he met true

1486
01:25:08,560 --> 01:25:11,559
Speaker 3: he actually never met Patty's mother, who was forty seven

1487
01:25:11,560 --> 01:25:12,559
Speaker 3: in her mid forties.

1488
01:25:13,360 --> 01:25:16,479
Speaker 1: That is so true. I like, this is so much

1489
01:25:16,479 --> 01:25:19,080
Speaker 1: of C. S. Lewis's stuff. You're just like can be

1490
01:25:19,360 --> 01:25:23,880
Speaker 1: kind of reduced to like this. You know, take everything

1491
01:25:23,880 --> 01:25:25,679
Speaker 1: he says with a grown of salt because he had

1492
01:25:25,880 --> 01:25:29,719
Speaker 1: like absurd mommy issues, which brings me to the Witch.

1493
01:25:30,200 --> 01:25:32,320
Speaker 1: Let's talk about the Witch. Yes, please, mommy.

1494
01:25:33,000 --> 01:25:34,800
Speaker 3: I like her, I like, I mean, I don't like

1495
01:25:34,840 --> 01:25:38,080
Speaker 3: her politics, I don't like her fascism, but I like

1496
01:25:38,760 --> 01:25:43,040
Speaker 3: when she's played by Tilda Swinton. She's also a pretty

1497
01:25:43,040 --> 01:25:46,559
Speaker 3: fun character in the BBC adaptation, Oh yeah, tell me,

1498
01:25:47,240 --> 01:25:51,160
Speaker 3: I didn't write down the actor who plays her. The

1499
01:25:51,240 --> 01:25:56,720
Speaker 3: costume is pretty wild and she's giving quite a performance.

1500
01:25:56,880 --> 01:26:00,320
Speaker 3: It is like full camp. She's screaming all the time.

1501
01:26:00,560 --> 01:26:04,240
Speaker 3: She's so mean and I love it.

1502
01:26:04,479 --> 01:26:07,280
Speaker 1: I love it. I mean till this written, she's perfect

1503
01:26:07,280 --> 01:26:10,200
Speaker 1: in this movie. Yeah, she's so good. She's so scary.

1504
01:26:10,760 --> 01:26:13,840
Speaker 1: I love a good female villain. I know that that

1505
01:26:13,880 --> 01:26:17,000
Speaker 1: comes with a lot of baggage. And I think it's

1506
01:26:17,040 --> 01:26:22,439
Speaker 1: worth pointing out that, you know, in a world where

1507
01:26:22,560 --> 01:26:27,080
Speaker 1: women characters are pretty sparse, all of the sympathetic characters

1508
01:26:27,080 --> 01:26:29,439
Speaker 1: we meet in this world, with the exception of Missus Beaver,

1509
01:26:30,360 --> 01:26:34,479
Speaker 1: are men. Jesus Aslan is a man. Mister Tumnus is

1510
01:26:34,520 --> 01:26:37,040
Speaker 1: a man. Mister. You know, all of most the actively

1511
01:26:37,160 --> 01:26:39,200
Speaker 1: kind characters we meet in this world are pretty much

1512
01:26:39,240 --> 01:26:44,479
Speaker 1: all men. And the woman we know the best is Satan,

1513
01:26:45,320 --> 01:26:51,640
Speaker 1: but she is also so Cundy, and like, it's not

1514
01:26:51,680 --> 01:26:53,240
Speaker 1: like I was, like, I wish this character was played

1515
01:26:53,240 --> 01:26:55,800
Speaker 1: by a man, because I don't. I guess what would

1516
01:26:55,960 --> 01:27:00,000
Speaker 1: have been cool is to have, like like so many time,

1517
01:27:00,360 --> 01:27:03,679
Speaker 1: a second woman who was allowed to do something other

1518
01:27:03,720 --> 01:27:06,360
Speaker 1: than cook or like respond to men.

1519
01:27:06,560 --> 01:27:14,920
Speaker 3: Especially because so many members of Aslan's army are mythological

1520
01:27:15,040 --> 01:27:20,599
Speaker 3: creatures and in this world maybe patriarchy doesn't exist. Why

1521
01:27:20,640 --> 01:27:26,320
Speaker 3: not have the woman centaurs? Like there's like a general

1522
01:27:26,680 --> 01:27:32,280
Speaker 3: it seems of Aslan's army who is a man centaur.

1523
01:27:32,720 --> 01:27:35,600
Speaker 3: Why not have that be a woman centaur? Why not

1524
01:27:35,640 --> 01:27:38,880
Speaker 3: be But like all of the soldiers in the army

1525
01:27:39,040 --> 01:27:42,360
Speaker 3: seem to be like male coded, which again bonds and

1526
01:27:42,400 --> 01:27:43,600
Speaker 3: centaurs and stuff.

1527
01:27:43,400 --> 01:27:46,640
Speaker 1: Does seem like something I mean, I think particularly in

1528
01:27:46,920 --> 01:27:50,559
Speaker 1: The Horse and His Boy, not the book you would

1529
01:27:50,600 --> 01:27:56,360
Speaker 1: expect to have some light feminist themes, but there is

1530
01:27:56,400 --> 01:28:01,080
Speaker 1: a character named Erevus in that book who flee, who

1531
01:28:01,160 --> 01:28:05,439
Speaker 1: runs away from home to escape an arranged marriage, then

1532
01:28:05,600 --> 01:28:09,240
Speaker 1: sort of becomes this warrior, which is kind of cool,

1533
01:28:09,640 --> 01:28:13,200
Speaker 1: except the fact that the culture she's fleeing is sort

1534
01:28:13,240 --> 01:28:16,960
Speaker 1: of a veiled version of Islam, So it is c.

1535
01:28:17,160 --> 01:28:23,200
Speaker 1: S lewis being islamophobic, Yeah, Islamophobic while trying to be feminist.

1536
01:28:23,360 --> 01:28:27,000
Speaker 1: So it's just like it's a mess. It's all a mess.

1537
01:28:27,240 --> 01:28:30,479
Speaker 1: I'm sure that there are Narnia books where there are

1538
01:28:30,560 --> 01:28:33,320
Speaker 1: more women in this world, at least more than appear

1539
01:28:33,360 --> 01:28:36,960
Speaker 1: to be in Lord of the Rings world. But regardless,

1540
01:28:37,000 --> 01:28:39,519
Speaker 1: it's like, this is the iconic one and the woman

1541
01:28:39,600 --> 01:28:44,960
Speaker 1: we know best is Satan and you know, objectively not ideal,

1542
01:28:45,160 --> 01:28:49,320
Speaker 1: but I also am like, she's so good, She's so.

1543
01:28:49,400 --> 01:28:54,439
Speaker 3: Good, she's great, very reclaimable character, I think, And yes,

1544
01:28:54,560 --> 01:28:57,960
Speaker 3: as far as adult women go. And then the two sisters,

1545
01:28:58,520 --> 01:29:01,920
Speaker 3: they're children, but they are very active participants in this story,

1546
01:29:01,920 --> 01:29:05,240
Speaker 3: more so Lucy than Susan, as we've discussed. But I

1547
01:29:05,280 --> 01:29:08,280
Speaker 3: do appreciate that there's a component of this story which

1548
01:29:08,439 --> 01:29:16,000
Speaker 3: is Lucy dealing with her siblings not believing her about Narnia.

1549
01:29:16,280 --> 01:29:20,280
Speaker 3: And you can presume it's because Lucy is both a

1550
01:29:20,360 --> 01:29:24,679
Speaker 3: girl and the youngest, because there's a long history of

1551
01:29:25,439 --> 01:29:31,120
Speaker 3: people not believing women and girls and people not believing

1552
01:29:31,200 --> 01:29:37,639
Speaker 3: children when they disclose something or have to like say

1553
01:29:37,680 --> 01:29:40,280
Speaker 3: like this thing happened to me, absolutely, because you can

1554
01:29:40,320 --> 01:29:44,479
Speaker 3: imagine that if Peter was the first person to discover Narnia,

1555
01:29:44,600 --> 01:29:49,080
Speaker 3: he'd be like, hey, younger siblings, come with me on

1556
01:29:49,160 --> 01:29:52,559
Speaker 3: an adventure. They'd be like, awesome, sounds great and definitely

1557
01:29:52,600 --> 01:29:57,440
Speaker 3: sounds real. Right because it's Lucy, she's a little girl,

1558
01:29:57,640 --> 01:30:01,080
Speaker 3: They're like, pishposh, there's no way that's true. And then

1559
01:30:01,160 --> 01:30:06,519
Speaker 3: to the professor's defense, he is like, you maybe should

1560
01:30:06,520 --> 01:30:08,840
Speaker 3: believe your sister. Let's logic through this.

1561
01:30:09,160 --> 01:30:11,840
Speaker 1: Let's take what she's saying seriously. Like, take what she's

1562
01:30:11,840 --> 01:30:14,800
Speaker 1: saying seriously. I also like the scene. It's a very

1563
01:30:14,840 --> 01:30:18,360
Speaker 1: short scene, but I liked the scene between Lucy and

1564
01:30:18,439 --> 01:30:22,280
Speaker 1: Susan about growing up. I thought that that was very sweet.

1565
01:30:22,320 --> 01:30:24,479
Speaker 1: It reminded me of like a lot of my cousins

1566
01:30:24,560 --> 01:30:28,679
Speaker 1: where it's right before they like spend time with Aslin

1567
01:30:28,720 --> 01:30:31,080
Speaker 1: and then Aslin dies, all very back to back to back,

1568
01:30:31,120 --> 01:30:35,080
Speaker 1: but there's a brief Bechdel cast passing exchange between the

1569
01:30:35,120 --> 01:30:39,120
Speaker 1: two of them that basically boils down to like Susan

1570
01:30:40,040 --> 01:30:42,360
Speaker 1: being like, oh, I'm sorry, like we don't hang out

1571
01:30:42,360 --> 01:30:44,679
Speaker 1: as much and because but it's more like a reference

1572
01:30:44,760 --> 01:30:48,880
Speaker 1: to their difference in age and maturity, and Lucy kind

1573
01:30:48,880 --> 01:30:50,599
Speaker 1: of pokes at Susan and is like, well, it's because

1574
01:30:50,640 --> 01:30:52,599
Speaker 1: you're so boring now in the way that your you know,

1575
01:30:52,640 --> 01:30:56,439
Speaker 1: elder siblings seem boring when they're interested in other things

1576
01:30:56,439 --> 01:30:58,160
Speaker 1: in you. And I just thought it was a very

1577
01:30:58,200 --> 01:31:04,000
Speaker 1: sweet moment. And again it is not much, but I

1578
01:31:04,040 --> 01:31:07,280
Speaker 1: did appreciate that, you know, like in general, you do

1579
01:31:07,400 --> 01:31:11,920
Speaker 1: get moments between sibling pairs in a way that I

1580
01:31:11,960 --> 01:31:15,640
Speaker 1: think shows more thought than you would maybe expect, like

1581
01:31:15,680 --> 01:31:18,640
Speaker 1: and I liked having that that the movie takes a

1582
01:31:18,680 --> 01:31:22,040
Speaker 1: moment to be like, what is Lucy's relationship with her

1583
01:31:22,080 --> 01:31:24,360
Speaker 1: older sister in the same way that and I think,

1584
01:31:24,479 --> 01:31:27,040
Speaker 1: especially with Lucy, you have a very clear idea of

1585
01:31:27,120 --> 01:31:31,559
Speaker 1: like what the distinct relationships are. I think between kind

1586
01:31:31,600 --> 01:31:34,120
Speaker 1: of all the siblings, because Susan and Peter have the

1587
01:31:34,120 --> 01:31:38,800
Speaker 1: sort of like eldest thing going where they both think

1588
01:31:38,800 --> 01:31:41,960
Speaker 1: they're hot shit and think their sibling sucks, which feels

1589
01:31:42,080 --> 01:31:45,840
Speaker 1: you know that scans right. Lucy and Edmund have their

1590
01:31:46,200 --> 01:31:49,200
Speaker 1: like Edmund sucks. Everyone kind of hates Edmund. That's everyone's

1591
01:31:49,240 --> 01:31:53,160
Speaker 1: relationship to Edmund is like we you know our parents.

1592
01:31:53,320 --> 01:31:55,519
Speaker 1: You know, something happened at the baby factory.

1593
01:31:56,439 --> 01:31:58,800
Speaker 3: Well, there's a there's a reference in the book that's

1594
01:31:58,880 --> 01:32:02,640
Speaker 3: not in the movie toward the very end of the

1595
01:32:02,680 --> 01:32:07,120
Speaker 3: book that and again it's been like it's been too

1596
01:32:07,160 --> 01:32:09,400
Speaker 3: many days have passed since I've read it, so basically

1597
01:32:09,520 --> 01:32:11,880
Speaker 3: eighty four years. It's seeping out of my memory. But

1598
01:32:12,640 --> 01:32:18,120
Speaker 3: the idea is that apparently something happened at school with Edmund.

1599
01:32:18,680 --> 01:32:21,080
Speaker 3: We're not sure if maybe he was the victim of

1600
01:32:21,200 --> 01:32:24,360
Speaker 3: bullying or something like that, but basically there was some

1601
01:32:24,439 --> 01:32:27,600
Speaker 3: experience that he had at school that kind of that

1602
01:32:27,760 --> 01:32:31,000
Speaker 3: was the catalyst for him to behave the way that

1603
01:32:31,120 --> 01:32:34,800
Speaker 3: we see him behaving. Oh interesting, Okay throughout the like

1604
01:32:35,080 --> 01:32:38,880
Speaker 3: first like two thirds of the story.

1605
01:32:39,160 --> 01:32:42,800
Speaker 1: Okay, well, that's actually like helpful to just have it

1606
01:32:42,920 --> 01:32:44,559
Speaker 1: even contextualize a little bit.

1607
01:32:45,160 --> 01:32:48,280
Speaker 3: It's literally like one sentence, but yeah, there is that

1608
01:32:48,400 --> 01:32:52,080
Speaker 3: little bit of context. The movie doesn't include that, which

1609
01:32:52,080 --> 01:32:54,559
Speaker 3: I understand why, Like it might have been like clunky

1610
01:32:54,600 --> 01:32:57,519
Speaker 3: to include, right, But we just don't really know why,

1611
01:32:58,160 --> 01:33:01,400
Speaker 3: at least according to the movie, why Edmund is the

1612
01:33:01,439 --> 01:33:02,200
Speaker 3: way he is.

1613
01:33:03,320 --> 01:33:06,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, he's just like sometimes kids are little shits.

1614
01:33:06,840 --> 01:33:09,679
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean I think again, like I did

1615
01:33:09,720 --> 01:33:14,720
Speaker 1: appreciate that whatever, all of the sibling pairings have a

1616
01:33:14,760 --> 01:33:18,680
Speaker 1: distinct dynamic more or less, but unfortunately, I think it

1617
01:33:18,760 --> 01:33:21,439
Speaker 1: is Susan who kind of gets the I always thought

1618
01:33:21,479 --> 01:33:23,960
Speaker 1: of like Susan and Peter as like they were boring

1619
01:33:24,040 --> 01:33:26,640
Speaker 1: to me. But Susan you get the least out of

1620
01:33:26,840 --> 01:33:29,800
Speaker 1: out of them. Yeah.

1621
01:33:30,200 --> 01:33:33,720
Speaker 3: The nineteen eighty eight BBC mini series, I've already said

1622
01:33:33,760 --> 01:33:35,560
Speaker 3: most of what I wanted to say about it, but

1623
01:33:35,600 --> 01:33:38,400
Speaker 3: I was, like, I did spend three hours of my

1624
01:33:38,560 --> 01:33:43,400
Speaker 3: one human life watching it, so the last things I'll

1625
01:33:43,439 --> 01:33:48,560
Speaker 3: say about it. The episodes are directed by a woman, Okay,

1626
01:33:49,240 --> 01:33:54,880
Speaker 3: Marilyn Fox, a TV producer, writer and director who mostly

1627
01:33:55,120 --> 01:34:00,960
Speaker 3: worked on BBC programming specific to like like Chill's programming

1628
01:34:01,680 --> 01:34:06,280
Speaker 3: from the nineteen sixties to the nineties, so she had

1629
01:34:06,360 --> 01:34:10,600
Speaker 3: a pretty prolific career. And yeah, she directed all the

1630
01:34:10,600 --> 01:34:15,880
Speaker 3: episodes of this mini series. Again, lots of goofy effects

1631
01:34:15,960 --> 01:34:19,720
Speaker 3: and costumes. There's also a part where, so the part

1632
01:34:19,720 --> 01:34:22,840
Speaker 3: of the story where Edmund has left the Beaver House

1633
01:34:23,280 --> 01:34:26,960
Speaker 3: and is making his way to the Witch's palace. In

1634
01:34:27,040 --> 01:34:31,679
Speaker 3: the book, he's having an inner monologue, which is tricky

1635
01:34:31,720 --> 01:34:35,959
Speaker 3: to put on screen. And sure, you know, some writers

1636
01:34:36,040 --> 01:34:39,160
Speaker 3: might have had Edmund just kind of talking to himself.

1637
01:34:39,240 --> 01:34:44,280
Speaker 3: Some maybe would have included his inner monologue as voiceovers.

1638
01:34:45,280 --> 01:34:48,280
Speaker 3: The two thousand and five movie kind of doesn't really

1639
01:34:48,320 --> 01:34:51,840
Speaker 3: do anything. It just shows him walking without any sort

1640
01:34:51,840 --> 01:34:56,280
Speaker 3: of indication that he's having thoughts or feelings. The nineteen

1641
01:34:56,320 --> 01:35:01,040
Speaker 3: eighty eight adaptation chooses to do the worst option of

1642
01:35:01,080 --> 01:35:05,960
Speaker 3: them all, which is to have Edmund talk to an

1643
01:35:06,000 --> 01:35:08,880
Speaker 3: imaginary hologram of himself.

1644
01:35:09,400 --> 01:35:10,599
Speaker 1: Okay, that's awesome.

1645
01:35:12,560 --> 01:35:17,200
Speaker 3: It's visually really bizarre and hilarious. This happens multiple times,

1646
01:35:17,880 --> 01:35:24,880
Speaker 3: and so that's that. Aslan is an animatronic who talks

1647
01:35:24,920 --> 01:35:27,880
Speaker 3: a lot, but his lips don't move. His head is

1648
01:35:27,920 --> 01:35:30,799
Speaker 3: just sort of like nodding up and down.

1649
01:35:31,200 --> 01:35:32,320
Speaker 1: I kind of watch this.

1650
01:35:32,280 --> 01:35:37,000
Speaker 3: Also he can fly the part where he is resurrected

1651
01:35:37,040 --> 01:35:39,439
Speaker 3: and then he takes Susan and Lucy to the Witch's castle.

1652
01:35:39,880 --> 01:35:45,360
Speaker 3: He flies them there in the BBC version, So pretty

1653
01:35:45,479 --> 01:35:46,360
Speaker 3: pretty cool stuff.

1654
01:35:46,560 --> 01:35:50,920
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, yeah, I can't wait to watch it.

1655
01:35:51,040 --> 01:35:53,519
Speaker 1: This sounds like the perfect I have a fever thing

1656
01:35:53,600 --> 01:35:57,160
Speaker 1: to watch. Absolutely amazing. Yeah, I guess the last thing

1657
01:35:57,240 --> 01:36:00,679
Speaker 1: there are four creditive writers on this movie is a woman,

1658
01:36:00,920 --> 01:36:05,240
Speaker 1: so there you go, and Peacock and Peacock cool name.

1659
01:36:06,200 --> 01:36:09,599
Speaker 1: She's got some other credits. But other than that, we

1660
01:36:09,680 --> 01:36:13,160
Speaker 1: are really dealing with a pretty heavily male production team.

1661
01:36:13,920 --> 01:36:16,400
Speaker 1: All things considered, I think what this boils down to

1662
01:36:16,520 --> 01:36:19,799
Speaker 1: for me is it's like it is ultimately soft Christian

1663
01:36:19,880 --> 01:36:24,920
Speaker 1: prop Baganda. But but I will say that it is

1664
01:36:25,240 --> 01:36:29,519
Speaker 1: ignorable to me anyways. Like I don't know, it's not

1665
01:36:29,720 --> 01:36:32,840
Speaker 1: so aggressive that you can't enjoy it. I do feel like,

1666
01:36:33,800 --> 01:36:38,360
Speaker 1: I mean, Jesus Lion, it's pretty unignorable. But I do

1667
01:36:38,360 --> 01:36:40,439
Speaker 1: feel like this is a take it or leave it

1668
01:36:40,680 --> 01:36:45,559
Speaker 1: kind of movie, and I'm leaving it, but you know, respectfully, Sure,

1669
01:36:45,720 --> 01:36:48,760
Speaker 1: I don't know. I still I think probably some of

1670
01:36:48,800 --> 01:36:51,360
Speaker 1: it's nostalgia, but I still have a lot of affection

1671
01:36:51,439 --> 01:36:56,240
Speaker 1: for this movie, and it is worth saying extremely white,

1672
01:36:56,479 --> 01:36:58,960
Speaker 1: so so absurdly white.

1673
01:36:59,200 --> 01:37:02,759
Speaker 3: I think the BBC version might be better about being

1674
01:37:03,000 --> 01:37:08,760
Speaker 3: more inclusive in its casting choices. It's all like background

1675
01:37:08,840 --> 01:37:14,160
Speaker 3: characters and like fonds and stuff. But like, yeah, between

1676
01:37:14,200 --> 01:37:16,960
Speaker 3: the two thousand and five movie and the BBC mini series,

1677
01:37:17,560 --> 01:37:21,880
Speaker 3: neither adaptation has any meaningful diversity in the cast.

1678
01:37:22,680 --> 01:37:26,040
Speaker 1: And that I'm hopeful, and I guess looking forward to

1679
01:37:26,920 --> 01:37:29,439
Speaker 1: the Greta Gerwig interpretation, I hope it is a more

1680
01:37:29,439 --> 01:37:33,720
Speaker 1: inclusive interpretation. And it seems like, you know, having a

1681
01:37:33,760 --> 01:37:38,360
Speaker 1: woman at the Helm of Narnia. Hopefully we get coherent Susan.

1682
01:37:39,080 --> 01:37:41,639
Speaker 1: Here's to maybe a coherent Susan next year.

1683
01:37:41,920 --> 01:37:46,880
Speaker 3: Yes, indeed, i'd imagine that Greta Gerwig's adaptation she's doing

1684
01:37:47,680 --> 01:37:49,479
Speaker 3: Is she doing another line the Witch and the wardrobe?

1685
01:37:49,520 --> 01:37:49,680
Speaker 3: Is she?

1686
01:37:49,760 --> 01:37:50,120
Speaker 1: What does she?

1687
01:37:50,800 --> 01:37:52,800
Speaker 3: This is like I don't know enough about this.

1688
01:37:53,160 --> 01:37:54,960
Speaker 1: I don't know. I just know it's been in production

1689
01:37:55,280 --> 01:37:57,559
Speaker 1: forever and the first one is coming out in theaters

1690
01:37:57,600 --> 01:38:01,679
Speaker 1: next year. Okay, I believe she's doing it in chronological order,

1691
01:38:01,880 --> 01:38:05,400
Speaker 1: not publishing order though, so I think she's not starting

1692
01:38:05,400 --> 01:38:08,280
Speaker 1: with Lion Witch in the wardrobe. Okay, but we'll see.

1693
01:38:08,360 --> 01:38:10,680
Speaker 1: I mean, we'll see, we'll see next year. I'm like,

1694
01:38:10,840 --> 01:38:15,000
Speaker 1: I will, I'll see anything she releases, Like I'm not

1695
01:38:15,040 --> 01:38:17,360
Speaker 1: excited for her adaptation of this the way that I

1696
01:38:17,400 --> 01:38:20,120
Speaker 1: was excited to see her adaptation of Little Women Her Barbie,

1697
01:38:20,120 --> 01:38:24,519
Speaker 1: but you know, hopefully it's amazing. We'll see, we will see.

1698
01:38:25,200 --> 01:38:28,840
Speaker 1: It passes the Bechdel test. It definitely does, not extensively.

1699
01:38:28,920 --> 01:38:31,280
Speaker 1: But even that scene we were just talking about with

1700
01:38:32,040 --> 01:38:34,479
Speaker 1: Susan and Lucy, that entire scene where they're talking about

1701
01:38:34,479 --> 01:38:37,599
Speaker 1: their relationship and their relationship to growing up, I feel

1702
01:38:37,600 --> 01:38:40,240
Speaker 1: like it is. Actually it is very plot relevant and

1703
01:38:40,360 --> 01:38:42,720
Speaker 1: a very sweet moment. And I'm sure that there is

1704
01:38:42,760 --> 01:38:45,840
Speaker 1: a pass with one of the two and the white

1705
01:38:45,840 --> 01:38:49,680
Speaker 1: Witch and but their mother at the beginning. There's a

1706
01:38:49,680 --> 01:38:55,320
Speaker 1: few passes as well. So not extensive, but it does pass.

1707
01:38:57,000 --> 01:38:59,120
Speaker 1: I'm giving it to them. But what about the most

1708
01:38:59,160 --> 01:39:01,400
Speaker 1: important metric in this world?

1709
01:39:01,880 --> 01:39:05,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, that would be, of course, the Bechdel cast nipple scale,

1710
01:39:05,200 --> 01:39:07,920
Speaker 3: where we rate the movie on a scale of zero

1711
01:39:08,000 --> 01:39:12,240
Speaker 3: to five nipples based on examining the movie through an

1712
01:39:12,240 --> 01:39:13,719
Speaker 3: intersectional feminist lens.

1713
01:39:13,840 --> 01:39:19,000
Speaker 1: And I will give this movie like I think like.

1714
01:39:19,560 --> 01:39:23,559
Speaker 3: One and a half that feels free. Yeah, maybe two

1715
01:39:24,040 --> 01:39:29,240
Speaker 3: again i'm feeling in the generous holiday spirit, but probably yeah,

1716
01:39:29,280 --> 01:39:32,719
Speaker 3: probably only one and a half, mostly because this movie

1717
01:39:32,760 --> 01:39:36,160
Speaker 3: had the opportunity. And again, if we're gonna like meet

1718
01:39:36,240 --> 01:39:39,160
Speaker 3: the movie where it is, which we don't have to do,

1719
01:39:39,200 --> 01:39:42,920
Speaker 3: but let's for argument's sake, say, Okay, this is a

1720
01:39:42,920 --> 01:39:44,880
Speaker 3: movie that's coming out in two thousand and five. It's

1721
01:39:44,920 --> 01:39:48,360
Speaker 3: coming out after the success of the Lord of the

1722
01:39:48,439 --> 01:39:52,160
Speaker 3: Rings movies, which had lots of battle things, So we're

1723
01:39:52,160 --> 01:39:56,000
Speaker 3: gonna expand the battle sequence of the Narnia movie, and

1724
01:39:56,080 --> 01:40:01,240
Speaker 3: therefore there are opportunities to take liberties with how inclusive

1725
01:40:01,439 --> 01:40:06,400
Speaker 3: the story is with especially the older the elder sister

1726
01:40:06,720 --> 01:40:10,200
Speaker 3: Susan with her bow and arrow, and can she do

1727
01:40:10,320 --> 01:40:12,960
Speaker 3: some stuff? If this is going to be like a

1728
01:40:13,080 --> 01:40:15,360
Speaker 3: baddly actiony movie.

1729
01:40:15,280 --> 01:40:18,000
Speaker 1: And it feels like we're stuck in like Princess Leah Land,

1730
01:40:18,040 --> 01:40:20,320
Speaker 1: where it's like she can do one stuff and then

1731
01:40:20,320 --> 01:40:22,160
Speaker 1: she and then and then we're cutting her off.

1732
01:40:22,360 --> 01:40:24,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, even Princess Leah does more stuff than

1733
01:40:25,320 --> 01:40:27,679
Speaker 3: Susan gets to do in this one movie at least.

1734
01:40:27,680 --> 01:40:33,880
Speaker 3: But so, yeah, I there were opportunities that were squandered.

1735
01:40:34,760 --> 01:40:36,479
Speaker 3: But again, if we are going to compare this to

1736
01:40:37,040 --> 01:40:43,720
Speaker 3: the Lord of the Rings trilogy, which basically which has

1737
01:40:44,560 --> 01:40:49,439
Speaker 3: like fewer women in far fewer narratively significant roles, and

1738
01:40:49,680 --> 01:40:53,639
Speaker 3: in the movie adaptation of those, there were like female

1739
01:40:53,680 --> 01:40:58,280
Speaker 3: characters who were drawn out of the like appendices and

1740
01:40:58,320 --> 01:41:02,559
Speaker 3: like other material that J. R. Tolkien had written that

1741
01:41:02,640 --> 01:41:05,680
Speaker 3: weren't even in like the source material of like the

1742
01:41:05,720 --> 01:41:08,280
Speaker 3: Lord of the Rings books, Like I think Arwin it

1743
01:41:08,320 --> 01:41:10,880
Speaker 3: was that barely in the books things were that dire,

1744
01:41:11,200 --> 01:41:11,880
Speaker 3: like it.

1745
01:41:11,920 --> 01:41:13,439
Speaker 1: Was, it was that right.

1746
01:41:14,200 --> 01:41:17,280
Speaker 3: So this movie, in this story in general, is doing

1747
01:41:17,320 --> 01:41:21,800
Speaker 3: better than that. The bar is low. And you know,

1748
01:41:21,840 --> 01:41:26,880
Speaker 3: as we've talked about in past episodes, fantasy, at least

1749
01:41:26,920 --> 01:41:32,040
Speaker 3: the fantasy that gets adapted to film in Hollywood is

1750
01:41:33,160 --> 01:41:40,240
Speaker 3: quite male driven, very white, very like Anglo Saxon.

1751
01:41:40,200 --> 01:41:44,599
Speaker 1: Which vibes Yeah, which is improved, but not by as

1752
01:41:44,680 --> 01:41:46,400
Speaker 1: much as you would hope over time.

1753
01:41:46,760 --> 01:41:46,960
Speaker 3: Right.

1754
01:41:47,160 --> 01:41:50,200
Speaker 1: Also, I'm just so sick of big tent pole fantasy movies.

1755
01:41:50,280 --> 01:41:51,960
Speaker 1: I'm like, how about we make them about no One?

1756
01:41:52,040 --> 01:41:57,360
Speaker 1: I'm so bored. But yeah, that said, yeah, i think

1757
01:41:57,400 --> 01:42:02,200
Speaker 1: I'm going to meet you at two. Taking into considerations.

1758
01:42:03,240 --> 01:42:07,639
Speaker 1: It's time because I think for a fantasy series, it's

1759
01:42:07,720 --> 01:42:11,760
Speaker 1: doing better than most other fantasy series of its time.

1760
01:42:11,840 --> 01:42:15,400
Speaker 1: So I'll give it a little edge for that reason.

1761
01:42:15,960 --> 01:42:19,960
Speaker 1: And I just really love Lucy and the White Witch.

1762
01:42:21,320 --> 01:42:24,479
Speaker 1: Even though there are fewer women characters in this movie

1763
01:42:24,479 --> 01:42:27,040
Speaker 1: than male characters, I do think that the women in

1764
01:42:27,080 --> 01:42:32,160
Speaker 1: general are the more memorable and more iconic. And I agree.

1765
01:42:32,320 --> 01:42:36,120
Speaker 3: So I'm sort of like Asla, I'm bored the White Witch.

1766
01:42:36,600 --> 01:42:38,320
Speaker 3: I'm engaged the White Witch.

1767
01:42:38,360 --> 01:42:41,200
Speaker 1: I Yeah, she's She's the one that stands the test

1768
01:42:41,240 --> 01:42:45,040
Speaker 1: of time, you know. And that's coming from someone who

1769
01:42:45,120 --> 01:42:49,599
Speaker 1: used to move Aslan before bed right right. The White

1770
01:42:49,600 --> 01:42:53,879
Speaker 1: Witch takes it regardless. So I'm gonna give it to nipples.

1771
01:42:53,960 --> 01:42:55,240
Speaker 1: Who are you giving your nipples to?

1772
01:42:55,479 --> 01:43:00,439
Speaker 3: I'll give it to as well. Merry Christmas everyone, and

1773
01:43:00,479 --> 01:43:04,800
Speaker 3: I'll give it to one to Tilda Swinton and one

1774
01:43:05,200 --> 01:43:09,040
Speaker 3: to Andrew Adamson's Shrek and Shrek two.

1775
01:43:09,240 --> 01:43:11,880
Speaker 1: I was gonna say an argument to bump it down

1776
01:43:11,880 --> 01:43:14,080
Speaker 1: to one and a half is that we know Andrew

1777
01:43:14,080 --> 01:43:16,880
Speaker 1: Adamson can make a feminist masterpiece. He just made Shrek two,

1778
01:43:17,960 --> 01:43:21,200
Speaker 1: so there is that You're like, we know the bar

1779
01:43:21,320 --> 01:43:25,960
Speaker 1: for Andrew Adamson feminist masterpiece is relatively high, but I'll

1780
01:43:25,960 --> 01:43:27,800
Speaker 1: stick with two. I'm gonna give one to Lucy. I'm

1781
01:43:27,800 --> 01:43:29,799
Speaker 1: gonna give one to Warlord Santa.

1782
01:43:30,320 --> 01:43:32,200
Speaker 3: Oh oh yeah, wow.

1783
01:43:33,040 --> 01:43:36,160
Speaker 1: Never forgets so funny that Santa sin is. Apparently j R. R.

1784
01:43:36,240 --> 01:43:38,559
Speaker 1: Tolkien was also like your joke, you're a flop? Why

1785
01:43:38,560 --> 01:43:41,759
Speaker 1: is Santa in your book? Which is very funny?

1786
01:43:42,840 --> 01:43:44,000
Speaker 3: All right, incredible.

1787
01:43:44,120 --> 01:43:47,360
Speaker 1: Well, there you go, listeners, nine years after you started

1788
01:43:47,400 --> 01:43:50,040
Speaker 1: asking for it, there's our Chronicles of Nardia episode. We

1789
01:43:50,160 --> 01:43:54,080
Speaker 1: hope you enjoyed it, and you can find us in

1790
01:43:54,439 --> 01:43:57,560
Speaker 1: all the normal places. You can find us mostly on Instagram,

1791
01:43:57,600 --> 01:44:00,800
Speaker 1: on social media, and you can find us, as we

1792
01:44:00,840 --> 01:44:03,200
Speaker 1: said at the beginning of the episode, on the Patreon

1793
01:44:03,200 --> 01:44:05,280
Speaker 1: aka Matreon, which is how we were able to figure

1794
01:44:05,320 --> 01:44:08,519
Speaker 1: out how badly everyone wanted this episode. But if you

1795
01:44:08,560 --> 01:44:12,400
Speaker 1: want to head over there for additional holiday episodes, we

1796
01:44:12,520 --> 01:44:18,360
Speaker 1: covered the family Stone and Black Christmas, another popular request, indeed,

1797
01:44:19,640 --> 01:44:26,000
Speaker 1: And with that, Happy holidays, Happy Holidays. Here's a sword,

1798
01:44:26,080 --> 01:44:28,880
Speaker 1: Go kill someone young one.

1799
01:44:28,479 --> 01:44:31,200
Speaker 3: Bye bye bye.

1800
01:44:32,840 --> 01:44:36,200
Speaker 1: The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted and

1801
01:44:36,280 --> 01:44:38,519
Speaker 1: produced by me Jamie Loftus and.

1802
01:44:38,520 --> 01:44:42,360
Speaker 3: Me Caitlyn Dorante. The podcast is also produced by Sophie

1803
01:44:42,360 --> 01:44:43,479
Speaker 3: Lichtermann and.

1804
01:44:43,520 --> 01:44:45,840
Speaker 1: Edited by Caitlyn Durrante. Ever Heard of Them?

1805
01:44:46,320 --> 01:44:49,760
Speaker 3: That's Me? And our logo and merch and all of

1806
01:44:49,800 --> 01:44:53,519
Speaker 3: our artwork in fact, are designed by Jamie Loftus, Ever

1807
01:44:53,560 --> 01:44:54,040
Speaker 3: heard of her?

1808
01:44:54,240 --> 01:44:57,240
Speaker 1: Oh My God? And our theme song, by the way,

1809
01:44:57,360 --> 01:44:59,120
Speaker 1: was composed by Mike Kaplan.

1810
01:44:59,000 --> 01:45:01,200
Speaker 3: With vocals by Katharine Voskrosynski.

1811
01:45:01,640 --> 01:45:06,120
Speaker 1: Iconic and especial thanks to the one and only Aristotle Ascevedo.

1812
01:45:06,640 --> 01:45:10,439
Speaker 3: For more information about the podcast, please visit Linktree Slash

1813
01:45:10,479 --> 01:45:11,240
Speaker 3: Spectelcast