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Speaker 1: Celebrity.

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Speaker 2: Oh, Lena, what a beautiful day in Los Angeles, America.

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Speaker 2: I love this city and it's charming weather and people.

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Speaker 1: I love it here too.

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Speaker 3: I love taking photographs of Americans doing American things, like

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Speaker 3: selling plastic on the street and I take photos of it,

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Speaker 3: and that's so contrast.

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Speaker 1: And we go to mall.

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Speaker 2: They are such a bizarre and obese people. They fascinate

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Speaker 2: me endlessly.

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Speaker 3: Have you ever passed that place, Burger King? I saw

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Speaker 3: a man so large there, so I started taking photos

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Speaker 3: of him.

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Speaker 2: It is such a fascinating American concept to be the

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Speaker 2: king of a burger a burger?

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Speaker 1: Who want to be the king of burger?

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Speaker 3: Because I would rather be the king of smoked fish

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Speaker 3: and one piece of carrot.

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Speaker 2: That is a kingdom, or should I say a queen?

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Speaker 2: That is quite fit for you, My dear love, Lina.

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Speaker 3: Werner, my husband, You're so sexy in this Los Angeles light.

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Speaker 2: Even though I am twenty years alter than you're, Lina.

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Speaker 2: We both share a passion for the natural world and

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Speaker 2: quaits our religious experiences.

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Speaker 3: Do you think maybe before we bought our flight confil

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Speaker 3: Festival we can make love in a very dark and

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Speaker 3: painful way.

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Speaker 2: That sounds extremely German and extremely beautiful. Let us do it.

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Speaker 2: I love speaking in English with you because it is

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Speaker 2: not a native tongue.

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Speaker 1: Neither of us really understand each other, which makes it

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Speaker 1: all the more erotic.

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Speaker 2: We speak with our bodies.

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Speaker 1: I'll get the chains.

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Speaker 2: Who's that knocking at the door. It's all your friends,

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Speaker 2: you filthy horse. Your husband's gone, and we've got books

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Speaker 2: and a bottle of wine to kill.

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Speaker 3: It's Hollywood, it's books, it's gossip.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure it's memoirs Martini, Celebrity poof Club.

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Speaker 4: Read it while it's hot.

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Speaker 1: Celebrity poop Club.

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Speaker 2: I'll tell your secrets.

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Speaker 3: We won't talk celebrity books.

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Speaker 1: No boys are a loud say it loud and poud.

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Speaker 2: Celebrity pook club.

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Speaker 1: Buzz me in. I brought the queer foe.

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Speaker 2: Hold on, friends.

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Speaker 3: I have very few friends on this earth, but it's

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Speaker 3: good to talk to them sometimes in the year.

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Speaker 2: Occasionally I see my friends from all over at the

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Speaker 2: globe where I've traveled extensively. Thank you for meeting me

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Speaker 2: and my hometown of New York City.

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Speaker 1: You're welcome, of course. I'm the host of the sponsors Lily.

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Speaker 2: I know this podcast. Stephen, great to see you.

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Speaker 1: I'm great to see you.

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Speaker 3: Now that we have video content, people are gonna know

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Speaker 3: that we matched by accident, and we were both wearing

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Speaker 3: the color blue, yes.

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Speaker 2: Because I wanted to contrast with the infamous red of

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Speaker 2: the Red studio at the iHeart headquarters in New York.

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Speaker 2: And then you sort of had the same idea, Lily Lewis.

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Speaker 3: I guess I was trying to match my own eye color,

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Speaker 3: which I know very well.

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Speaker 2: You know who doesn't know their own eye color because

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Speaker 2: he's so fucking heterosexual and.

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Speaker 1: He's so idea based.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he would never just gaze at himself in a

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Speaker 3: mirror and know his own eye color.

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Speaker 2: No, because he's totally not obsessed with them.

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Speaker 3: We're done with our two part Brittany, and we really

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Speaker 3: are flipping the switch.

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Speaker 2: We're flipping the switch, and said, what about a man, what.

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Speaker 3: About one of the most narcissistic, intellectual.

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Speaker 2: Just absolutely brave, fascinating, brave, courageous minds cent trick of

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Speaker 2: our generation. Of course, we're talking about them, not an

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Speaker 2: Irish Irish over here a little bit. Sorry, We're talking.

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Speaker 3: About one of the most famous groundbreaking film.

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Speaker 2: Directors, filmmakers, writers, opera.

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Speaker 1: Directors and soccer players, husbands.

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Speaker 4: And fathers, Sir actor Werner hurtzg and his new Yeah,

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Speaker 4: new book, new book every Man for Himself and God.

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Speaker 1: Against All a memoir.

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Speaker 2: I mean wow. And if you think it's dramatic, honey,

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Speaker 2: you're right, it.

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Speaker 1: Is every moment. If you think it's weird, it is.

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Speaker 2: Oh, it gets weirder.

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Speaker 3: The cover kind of classic star From the beginning, he's

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Speaker 3: in a beekeeping suit.

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Speaker 2: No, no, this is not a bee keep This is

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Speaker 2: like a space suit. It's I think this is like

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Speaker 2: a flame retardant. I am going to visit a volcanos.

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Speaker 1: Oh, okay, that makes sense.

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Speaker 2: So for those of you who don't know Erna Hertzog,

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Speaker 2: he's a famous filmmaker, very prolific, very very prolific, very productive,

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Speaker 2: ka and he's made a lot of documentary, a lot

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Speaker 2: of narrative as well.

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Speaker 1: He's also drugged operas.

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Speaker 3: He's like known for going towards the dock, going towards

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Speaker 3: the weird, going towards the unknown.

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Speaker 2: He's very into these kind of like solitary oft Demans's

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Speaker 2: a women like man against the elements, man against society,

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Speaker 2: stories about like one person's usually quixotic kind of quest

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Speaker 2: to do something, and like everyone's against them and they're

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Speaker 2: crazy and like all these sort of the madman he's

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Speaker 2: wearing into history, into the natural.

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Speaker 3: World, and like he puts himself as the madman kind

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Speaker 3: of almost matches subject.

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Speaker 1: Yes, Like he's almost method with his.

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Speaker 2: Very method directing, and so all of the films kind

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Speaker 2: of take on this quality that he's referred to as

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Speaker 2: ecstatic triuth, where the process of making the film sort

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Speaker 2: of mirrors some of the insanity and the tribulations that

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Speaker 2: the characters have gone through, whether it is documentary or fiction.

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Speaker 3: He is probably most famous for kind of your pop

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Speaker 3: film watchers, for his film Grizzly Man.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess that is the most famous.

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Speaker 3: Which is kind of weird, even though he's like I

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Speaker 3: would say he's most famous for being just like completely insane.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm being like, so.

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Speaker 3: It's so drummon and just being like, what if we

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Speaker 3: filmed a village, Yeah, that pray is the most attractive

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Speaker 3: man in the world, and I shot it nude yeh

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Speaker 3: in winter for three years my pins became prostited.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like, you know, the character infiltrates the filming

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Speaker 2: and of course because of his documentaries, he does a

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Speaker 2: lot of the narration and so that intense Bavarian accent

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Speaker 2: comes through. I was watching Grizzly Man last night and

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Speaker 2: he keeps saying bear, it's a bear, bears, bears, and

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Speaker 2: he became obsessed with the bear, the part near the

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Speaker 2: end when he's talking about right when the guy goes back.

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Speaker 2: So spoiler alert, Grizzly Man is about a guy who

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Speaker 2: like is obsessed with bears and then he gets eaten

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Speaker 2: by one.

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Speaker 3: And the finale of it, which I think everyone knows

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Speaker 3: what I want. The Oscar in like two thousand and

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Speaker 3: three is that he listens to the audio of the

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Speaker 3: man being eaten a lite. No.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that is an insane scene and you just

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Speaker 2: watch it. And but you watch him listening.

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Speaker 1: With the guy who was eating ex grap friend.

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Speaker 2: And she the whole time she keeps just saying I

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Speaker 2: was his girlfriend, I was his employee. She was so

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Speaker 2: like Alaska butch in that way where she was like

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Speaker 2: short hair.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I was his girlfriend and she was but

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Speaker 3: more than his girlfriend. I was his friend, but more

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Speaker 3: than his friend, I was his employee, just like I

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Speaker 3: didn't realize because you know, I remember when Grizzly Man

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Speaker 3: came out and like, of course people at my artsy

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Speaker 3: high school loved it, and I was like, I actually

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Speaker 3: have literally no interest.

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Speaker 2: Yeah I didn't. You were like a man, no, thank you, Okay,

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Speaker 2: I'm going shopping on Newbreeze through with my gay friends.

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Speaker 1: Gay friend singular.

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Speaker 3: It was more like all movies about men being alone.

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Speaker 3: I have no interest in one hundred and twenty eight

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Speaker 3: hours cast Away.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, to get this right.

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Speaker 3: It's just a man alone and we're supposed to watch

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Speaker 3: that for an hour and a half.

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Speaker 2: And you know, I think he on some level is

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Speaker 2: aware of that, because he injects so much of his

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Speaker 2: near to guide the viewer through the process that he's

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Speaker 2: always like making it interesting. He's like reminding, He's like,

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Speaker 2: he's not just about a man. It is about human nature.

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Speaker 2: And so you're like, okay, oh, this is about human nature. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: There's just this very funny line near the end where

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Speaker 2: when the guy decides to go back for his final

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Speaker 2: trip where he will die, and it's kind of the

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Speaker 2: end of the season. He's like, really shouldn't be going back.

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Speaker 2: It's like when the beards are turning to get super crazy,

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Speaker 2: and Verna's talking about his diaries, Like in his diaries

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Speaker 2: before he goes back, he is about to fly to

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Speaker 2: Vancouver and he has an altercation with an obese airline

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Speaker 2: attendant who rejects the validity of his ticket. I will say.

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Speaker 3: Werner like defines the type of European who's like not

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Speaker 3: into people.

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Speaker 2: Like he's talking about it. He's like, damn, Americans are fat.

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Speaker 2: There's like that family he lives with, and he's like,

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Speaker 2: when I saw them years later, I could not recognize them.

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Speaker 2: They had grown so large.

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Speaker 3: And then there's a point where he's talking about how

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Speaker 3: he is directing Walking in Phoenix and Joaquin Phoenix like

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Speaker 3: has to lose like seventy five pounds.

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Speaker 1: For the role, and he was like, so, of course

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Speaker 1: I decided.

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Speaker 3: To do it along with him, but lose half as

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Speaker 3: much weight as Joaquin Phoenix was losing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And he's like, how did I do it?

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Speaker 1: I'm easy.

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Speaker 3: I ate half as much as I normally do, Like,

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Speaker 3: I don't know why you guys have so many problems

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Speaker 3: losing weight.

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Speaker 2: Already humble bugs in this book, and I think, like,

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Speaker 2: as the book goes on towards the end, like he

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Speaker 2: really starts to show his hand a little more, where

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Speaker 2: he is like so obsessed with his own mythology and

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Speaker 2: like he's such an architect of it, and he's just

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Speaker 2: like it's so crisy that nobody knows how to lose weight,

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Speaker 2: or like it's so funny. I guess I have one

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Speaker 2: of those accents that everyone's obsessed with, and I just

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Speaker 2: keep making fun of it. But I like that I

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Speaker 2: have imitatus the.

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Speaker 1: Book, it's kind of my new favorite structure.

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Speaker 3: It goes from completely insane childhood where he's just being

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Speaker 3: like I slept on dried ferns straw, put in burloup bag.

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Speaker 3: Mother hit me because I was too hungry. So I

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Speaker 3: grabbed her leg and I said, mother, mother, please, can

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Speaker 3: I have cow and tustin? And she says, shut up,

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Speaker 3: go to village and play. My father, of course hated me.

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Speaker 3: He had litters of children. Of course, our great uncle

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Speaker 3: did molest my dear cousin.

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Speaker 2: Silvaka the great old go on the station and then

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Speaker 2: like they're like Pakistani friend. It's kind of like there's

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Speaker 2: a parallel to the Marina Abramovich book where she has

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Speaker 2: this Slavic childhood that's like so harsh, but like kind

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Speaker 2: of still like middle upper class, but like her parents

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Speaker 2: are just like brutal. Yes, And then like he has

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Speaker 2: like this incredible poverty that is like unimaginable, I think

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Speaker 2: to our modern.

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Speaker 3: But they're very like imagination, and like I feel like

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Speaker 3: his mother is like, oh, we wouldn't make fun of

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Speaker 3: this other family because they didn't know like the writings

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Speaker 3: of something.

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Speaker 2: And so she's like imparting like this import of knowledge

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Speaker 2: and art and he could could be something poor and

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Speaker 2: there's more of an anarchy, and he kind of like

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Speaker 2: looks at it quite fondly. He's like, my childhood was

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Speaker 2: like really insane, Like I was just running around the

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Speaker 2: Alps as a four year old with nothing to eat,

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Speaker 2: like climbing sheep and like breaking into farms and like

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Speaker 2: being completely random and like crying and sobbing, hiding underbails.

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Speaker 1: Of Hey, I'm always hiding underbails of hay.

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Speaker 3: And I feel like, also in a very slavic way,

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Speaker 3: he goes into like, and this is how my grandparents met,

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Speaker 3: which is of like if you wrote a memoir, would

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Speaker 3: you write about the meeting of your grandma?

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Speaker 2: No, but I do think that's maybe just more of

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Speaker 2: a European thing of like history versus Americans, which don't

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Speaker 2: have a sense of history. But I do think you

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Speaker 2: actually can kind of part of the difference between the

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Speaker 2: German and the Slavic experience if you look at those

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Speaker 2: two books, because I think like, ultimately there's a sense

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Speaker 2: of suffering, like the Slavic imagination that he's not as upseted,

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Speaker 2: like he's obsessed with all of the insane shit that

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Speaker 2: happens to him.

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Speaker 3: It's but it's less operatic where I feel like the

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Speaker 3: Slavs are a little more just like and then a

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Speaker 3: gun was placed to my head.

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Speaker 2: It's a little bit more depressive, I would say, whereas

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Speaker 2: he's not a depressive, He's just like all this insane

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Speaker 2: should happened, Like isn't that so fun? And then I

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Speaker 2: just decided to do more insane shit, like he kind

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Speaker 2: of seeks it out.

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Speaker 1: He's jackass.

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Speaker 3: He's jackass literally is kind of the original jackass. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: Like all of his films are just like, Okay, you're

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Speaker 3: gonna hang out with a bear for three years, I'm

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Speaker 3: gonna film it in the Alps, Like Okay, I guess

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Speaker 3: one of my big takeaways. I was almost like he's

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Speaker 3: almost like jealous he wasn't able to go.

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Speaker 2: To war because he was born right after the war.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I feel like that's why he goes so

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Speaker 3: hard in his filmmaking, where he's like always getting frost

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Speaker 3: bitten and like always about to like die or is

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Speaker 3: like getting.

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Speaker 1: Eaten by eels while filming.

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Speaker 3: And it's kind of like sure, absolutely, like go to

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Speaker 3: the end of the earth for your art, But are

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Speaker 3: you trying?

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Speaker 2: Yes, I think he's obsessed with something. Yes, he's trying

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Speaker 2: to feel something. He's obsessed with these figures and these

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Speaker 2: characters throughout history and then also of his own invention,

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Speaker 2: who are like, you know, against all odds. I mean

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Speaker 2: the title of the book Government from Self, Against All

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Speaker 2: It's like he's obsessed with this incredibly these dramatic stakes.

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Speaker 2: And of course, like you know, in his life as

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Speaker 2: a sort of a self made auteur and artists, it's

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Speaker 2: like the stakes aren't gonna be that high unless you

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Speaker 2: create them, and so like he has to put himself

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Speaker 2: in these situations, often using like unforgiving physical environments to

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Speaker 2: like create those intents, and then but also seeking out

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Speaker 2: like where there's political conflict, and so how this book

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Speaker 2: is like him going to places where there's like you know,

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Speaker 2: insane war and like famine and civil war and just

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Speaker 2: trying to be like, let me get in there, kind

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Speaker 2: of as like a journalist, but also just like as

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Speaker 2: this kind of thrill seeker.

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Speaker 3: So the first time I heard about Hertzog was from

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Speaker 3: It's a friend of mine.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I think you're gonna know because his father is

293
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Speaker 2: mentioned in this mentioned.

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Speaker 3: In this book, and I remember hearing about it from

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Speaker 3: the other side about Errol Morris that they were arch Nemesis.

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Speaker 1: Okay, which is so funny.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because he talks about Errol in this book in

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Speaker 2: this way that does feel a little bit arch Nemesis.

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Speaker 1: Very arch Nemesis.

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Speaker 3: So he talks about how because like before Errol was

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Speaker 3: a filmmaker, he was a private investigator and he was

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Speaker 3: studying ed Geen, the serial killer. Wernerd and Errol had

303
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Speaker 3: this whole plan to dig up ed Dean's mother together

304
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Speaker 3: to find out basically is she was murdered by ed Gean.

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Speaker 1: So he flies to Wisconsin.

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Speaker 3: He's like, Errold didn't show up, and I flew with

307
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Speaker 3: shovels to dig up this woman.

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Speaker 2: Okay, they want to see if he actually dug up

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Speaker 2: his mom. Yeah, and again he said, And then Errol

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Speaker 2: check it out, he.

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Speaker 3: Said, he checked out, and he was afraid of his

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Speaker 3: own courage.

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Speaker 1: So then he was so impressed.

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Speaker 3: By the landscape of Midwest culture and Wisconsin that he'd

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Speaker 3: decides to make a film of using the Wisconsin landscape

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Speaker 3: later on, and then like Errol gets mad at him

317
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Speaker 3: because he wanted to make a movie.

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Speaker 2: He's like, you stole Wisconsin, which I invented.

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Speaker 3: So like photography guys being like, wait, I wanted to

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Speaker 3: film at that dive bar.

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Speaker 2: I know it is over because it's so just like wait,

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Speaker 2: what if I made a movie about just like kind

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Speaker 2: of broken, broken down, the destitute sadness of like suburban

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Speaker 2: Midwestern America And there's a.

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Speaker 3: Weird man who works in a mechanic shops.

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Speaker 2: And it's like so just like a shot of like

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Speaker 2: a gas station at night, but like the lights are salon.

328
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Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, you invented this.

329
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Speaker 1: And then it's like big Sky Road.

330
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Speaker 2: But the way that he actually drags Errol so hard.

331
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Speaker 2: I just now realizing this, like whole passage was the

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Speaker 2: deepest drag apart from me. No one had ever taken

333
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Speaker 2: Errol particularly seriously because he had never completed anything. For

334
00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:56,080
Speaker 2: an instance, although musically extremely gifted, he had put his

335
00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:58,720
Speaker 2: cello away in a corner from one day to the next.

336
00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:03,160
Speaker 2: He had his doctor thesis practically finished but never got

337
00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:06,240
Speaker 2: around to submitting it. He had gathered thousands of pages

338
00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:09,120
Speaker 2: of material and serial killers, but never wrote the book.

339
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Speaker 2: It's really crazy, insane back all of it, just like, oh,

340
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Speaker 2: he just absolutely had no follow through. It all so funny,

341
00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:18,200
Speaker 2: it's so funny.

342
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Speaker 3: He was a genius, but he just couldn't funny in wait,

343
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Speaker 3: how various films have I made?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think at this point I had made, Oh,

345
00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:27,040
Speaker 2: I know, twenty thirty films or who's counting. By the way,

346
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Speaker 2: here's a list of my films.

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Speaker 1: And he's like, and I actually really loved his debut.

348
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Speaker 1: She really loved it.

349
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Speaker 2: It was really so cute that he actually finished a movie.

350
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Speaker 2: Isn't that adorable?

351
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Speaker 1: And then he said, he's like, we are great friends.

352
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Speaker 1: But it goes off and on.

353
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Speaker 3: But then of course, like Eryl is at his Shapanese dinner,

354
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Speaker 3: like when he.

355
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Speaker 2: Meets that which kills me.

356
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Speaker 3: Well, let's get into the Shapanese for a second. So

357
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Speaker 3: Werner loves Shapanese because of course he like hates McDonald's

358
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Speaker 3: and like America, and he's like chimpiness was so cool

359
00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:00,400
Speaker 3: because it's where intellectuals come and how were gone?

360
00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:02,920
Speaker 1: Like food, and he is being so dirty girl tomatoes.

361
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Speaker 2: It's being so like it was a leader of the

362
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Speaker 2: free speech movement, and it's also was making tomatoes affordable.

363
00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:12,200
Speaker 2: And it's just like, was the Japanese ever affordable?

364
00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:14,320
Speaker 3: It was exactly like it was some like cheap ass

365
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Speaker 3: cafe No. Twenty two for the tomatoes.

366
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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like I think it was always just like

367
00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:25,720
Speaker 2: Cambridge Intelligenzia and like Brooklyn Intelligentsia. Okay, so he's at Japanese,

368
00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:27,639
Speaker 2: so he goes. So I was going up the stairs

369
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Speaker 2: to the upper floor where we famously dined with a

370
00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:31,840
Speaker 2: friend of the Pad, George Cyrus a few months ago

371
00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:34,239
Speaker 2: at the bar. Because the table wasn't mad, it were

372
00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:36,359
Speaker 2: a couple of young women. One of them turned to me.

373
00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:39,800
Speaker 2: It was Lena, apparently, though I don't remember this. I

374
00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:41,800
Speaker 2: staid routed to the spot on top of the stairs,

375
00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:45,000
Speaker 2: transfixed a bolt of lightning. I'd never seen eyes of

376
00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:46,919
Speaker 2: such beauty and intelligence in my life.

377
00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:48,720
Speaker 1: She was in grad school this time, by the way,

378
00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:49,280
Speaker 1: and he's like.

379
00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:51,960
Speaker 2: Fifty that Ivina took a free chair and jammed myself

380
00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:54,160
Speaker 2: between her and her neighbor, and throughout the entire dinner

381
00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:56,800
Speaker 2: she and I talked as though there weren't anyone else around.

382
00:17:56,960 --> 00:17:58,879
Speaker 2: I learned in her school days in Siberia she had

383
00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:01,320
Speaker 2: secretly copied out by hand a couple of books that

384
00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:03,440
Speaker 2: were banned in the Soviet Union and passed them around

385
00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:05,919
Speaker 2: among trustworthy friends. She had copied out the whole of

386
00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:09,360
Speaker 2: bookgag Loves The Master of Margarita and should Shinstein's first

387
00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:13,000
Speaker 2: book One day in the life of Ivan Denishtrovich. I

388
00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:15,080
Speaker 2: know it instantly, this is the woman I want to

389
00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:17,680
Speaker 2: live with. So then she has this whole project where

390
00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:21,160
Speaker 2: she like records like the last speakers of a language

391
00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:24,200
Speaker 2: they're both obsessed with, like indigenous people.

392
00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:26,439
Speaker 3: Like the last speakers and the first speakers, and like

393
00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:31,119
Speaker 3: villagers that are untouched. It also defines like professor in

394
00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:33,040
Speaker 3: grad school girl who reads a.

395
00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:35,639
Speaker 1: Lot of books. Yeah, have you ever read Master from

396
00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:37,000
Speaker 1: the Margarita? And not a pride?

397
00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:41,280
Speaker 2: No no, but but I love both of those things.

398
00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:44,840
Speaker 2: If you know what I mean? Where are my alcoholic bottom?

399
00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:48,200
Speaker 2: A book club.

400
00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:55,720
Speaker 3: Club?

401
00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:58,880
Speaker 1: I was wonder if I could read a passage.

402
00:18:58,920 --> 00:18:59,639
Speaker 2: I thought she would never.

403
00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:02,959
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I love thy passages and texts because I

404
00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:08,680
Speaker 3: love knowledge. So one of his most famous features FITZGERALDO

405
00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:09,800
Speaker 3: Right Yes.

406
00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:11,840
Speaker 2: Which is another one of these sort of quixotic stories

407
00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:15,400
Speaker 2: of a man, you know, in an unforgiving physical environment

408
00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:17,600
Speaker 2: who wants.

409
00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:22,359
Speaker 3: To build an opera house in the Amazon Same and

410
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:26,639
Speaker 3: it's starring Klaus Kinski, which I guess basically like started

411
00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:27,880
Speaker 3: a lot of Werner Herzog movies.

412
00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:29,280
Speaker 1: I had never heard of him sane.

413
00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:33,800
Speaker 3: He's like a completely insane actor that was like mentally illan.

414
00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:36,480
Speaker 2: And they like meet in the most insane circumstance and

415
00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:39,159
Speaker 2: like where he's like living in this boarding house in

416
00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:41,439
Speaker 2: Munich with his mom, and Klaus Klinsky is like the

417
00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:45,040
Speaker 2: crazy roommate who doesn't pay rent and like has insane

418
00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:49,720
Speaker 2: like bouts of mania where he like breaks all the sinks.

419
00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:52,720
Speaker 3: And he's like you, you're a great actor.

420
00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:54,720
Speaker 2: I want to work with you on a film set.

421
00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:59,000
Speaker 3: And like they almost like murder each other like multiple times,

422
00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:01,879
Speaker 3: like at one point, like someone in Werner's crew is like,

423
00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:03,679
Speaker 3: I can murder him tonight.

424
00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:05,320
Speaker 2: They offer to murder him.

425
00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:07,240
Speaker 1: And he's like, you know what.

426
00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:15,400
Speaker 3: While that is a tempting offer, I'm gonna pass. Okay,

427
00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:18,320
Speaker 3: somebody the past is basically like the whole things. He

428
00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:20,919
Speaker 3: wants to build this opera house, and the character is

429
00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:22,760
Speaker 3: going through so much for this to happen.

430
00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:24,800
Speaker 1: But also Werner's.

431
00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:26,679
Speaker 3: Doing the same thing to get the film made. So

432
00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:29,200
Speaker 3: this is about how they needed to bring a ship

433
00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:31,920
Speaker 3: to this area of Brazil for the film.

434
00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:33,240
Speaker 1: But I also want.

435
00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:35,000
Speaker 3: To say there was a crisis in the shoot when

436
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:38,040
Speaker 3: our Brazilian technician was afraid to drag the ship up

437
00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:40,480
Speaker 3: the mountain because the prop, a dead post for which

438
00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:44,040
Speaker 3: the Spanish have the expressive turned werto, didn't seem stable

439
00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:45,040
Speaker 3: enough to support it.

440
00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:49,639
Speaker 1: The Brazilian quit, afraid of his own courage. I think.

441
00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:55,280
Speaker 3: I then assumed responsibility myself and had a new wereto

442
00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:58,000
Speaker 3: knocked deep into the ground. Technically Saxon was the man

443
00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:00,159
Speaker 3: who did it. This new prop would have borne the

444
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:04,400
Speaker 3: weight of five ships. Films are collaborative enterprises, so many

445
00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:08,000
Speaker 3: things mentioned one him being like this prop technician who

446
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,800
Speaker 3: I'm sure was not getting paid that much, like didn't

447
00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:13,480
Speaker 3: want to carry something that was the weight of five

448
00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:17,000
Speaker 3: ships up a mountain because he wasn't brave enough.

449
00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:19,080
Speaker 2: And then he was afraid of his own courage.

450
00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:23,119
Speaker 1: Was afraid of your own courage.

451
00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:23,520
Speaker 2: Right, if you.

452
00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:26,560
Speaker 1: Honestly all the time?

453
00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:28,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I see that.

454
00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:35,600
Speaker 3: Honestly, I was afraid of my to finish this three

455
00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:36,879
Speaker 3: hundred page's book.

456
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:39,320
Speaker 1: I was a little afraid of my own courage.

457
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:42,680
Speaker 3: But then he also was like being like, no, I'm

458
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:44,520
Speaker 3: the one who had to do it. He's like, technically

459
00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:47,600
Speaker 3: someone else did it, but basically it was.

460
00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:50,560
Speaker 2: Me, and I'm so grateful to everyone for working on it,

461
00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:54,639
Speaker 2: but ultimately, like I did kind of like have to

462
00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:55,800
Speaker 2: crack the whip a little bit.

463
00:21:56,119 --> 00:22:00,119
Speaker 1: And it's very like loner mail director being.

464
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:01,399
Speaker 2: I think he is a bit of a loner, and

465
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:03,440
Speaker 2: he mentions that a lot. You know. He he starts about

466
00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:05,840
Speaker 2: his dad once told him like that he's not outgoing

467
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:07,879
Speaker 2: enough to like pursue a career in film, and his

468
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:09,280
Speaker 2: dad was like, oh, I don't think you're gonna be

469
00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:12,160
Speaker 2: able to do this. Oh yeah, right, And so obviously

470
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:14,000
Speaker 2: that lights a fire und him, right, Yeah, you know,

471
00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:15,600
Speaker 2: it's funny how he says he's like my father was

472
00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:17,719
Speaker 2: a module figure in my life, like you know, But

473
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:20,040
Speaker 2: of course it's like, if you don't think this guy

474
00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:23,400
Speaker 2: has daddy issues, honey, what are you thinking? Because I think,

475
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:26,160
Speaker 2: of course, like the father's absence and the father having

476
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:29,560
Speaker 2: these other litters, and it sounds like, by all accounts,

477
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:32,400
Speaker 2: the dad was gregarious and charming and like did bet

478
00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:36,280
Speaker 2: all these women? Yes? And so like he does I

479
00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:39,000
Speaker 2: think aspired to that like level of confidence on some level.

480
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:42,040
Speaker 2: Of course, he wants his father to be impressed, would

481
00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:45,640
Speaker 2: be proud of him. One to seven hundred, seven hundred

482
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:50,600
Speaker 2: comes yeah, like all about these like loner, solitary male quests.

483
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:52,960
Speaker 2: But I think it, you know, it obviously comes back

484
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:56,640
Speaker 2: to this imagination that I think was forged in childhood.

485
00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:59,399
Speaker 2: I mean, one really interesting thing he talks about is

486
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:06,080
Speaker 2: his images us and how we have this sort of

487
00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:10,359
Speaker 2: like dearth I think of an image vocabulary today and

488
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:12,480
Speaker 2: because of so, we we were like sonne ofated with

489
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:16,680
Speaker 2: the screens, and so it's hard for us to generate

490
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:20,600
Speaker 2: images from within. And he does have this incredible ability

491
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:23,440
Speaker 2: to generate images from within. I think, at least for

492
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:25,800
Speaker 2: most of his movies. I think maybe the later ones

493
00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:28,320
Speaker 2: like maybe start to get a little bit more cheesy

494
00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:30,480
Speaker 2: in Netflix, but like the more like past ten years.

495
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:34,399
Speaker 2: But like I watched on Aguare Wrath of God.

496
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:36,960
Speaker 1: She talks a lot about also.

497
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:39,359
Speaker 2: Which is kind of similar to FITZGERALDO. It's about like

498
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:42,159
Speaker 2: a madman played by Klaus Klinsky, who is this like

499
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:46,440
Speaker 2: Spanish conquisto or in the fifteen hundreds, who's like trying

500
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:50,040
Speaker 2: to find El Dorado, And like the movie is about

501
00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:53,160
Speaker 2: like this crazy like European guy going to South America

502
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:56,080
Speaker 2: and like enslaving the indigenous people to try and like

503
00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:58,480
Speaker 2: find the city that doesn't exist, and then like being

504
00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:01,320
Speaker 2: against the elements and like getting shot like by so

505
00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:04,520
Speaker 2: many other tribes and arrows and like being psychotic and

506
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:08,880
Speaker 2: like killing his whole like team, and like obviously there's

507
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:12,280
Speaker 2: such a parallel with making the film, and like he also.

508
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:14,760
Speaker 1: Goes to like a place where there are villagers.

509
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:16,080
Speaker 2: And where there are villages and it's like no, he's

510
00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:18,439
Speaker 2: on enslaving the locals, but it's like he is like

511
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:23,320
Speaker 2: exploiting the territory like for his own glory. Obviously to

512
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:24,200
Speaker 2: make this film.

513
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,679
Speaker 3: Is Aguerre where he's put on tribunal or is that

514
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:32,840
Speaker 3: after Fitzgeralto for like war crimes.

515
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:34,920
Speaker 2: It was like there was this silly, random case where

516
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 2: it was like putting on tribunal for war crimes and

517
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:37,320
Speaker 2: then it got cleared up.

518
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 3: Anyway, could have been either of the films basically where

519
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 3: he's using a lot of people native to a certain country.

520
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:45,440
Speaker 1: That he arrives in and it's like, I shall make

521
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:46,360
Speaker 1: a film.

522
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:49,359
Speaker 2: But like, this doesn't seem like you know, your Netflix

523
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:51,879
Speaker 2: epic today where you're like, oh, they're really trying to

524
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 2: do the period. Like it feels like you're like, oh,

525
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:57,040
Speaker 2: these are like people in the seventies, like wearing little costumes.

526
00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:59,359
Speaker 2: Like it doesn't feel like immercive in that way. But

527
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 2: then you know, even just for a few minutes, you're like, oh,

528
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:05,440
Speaker 2: they're really there, Like they're actually in the jungle. They

529
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:08,119
Speaker 2: hike to somewhere that's incredibly hard to reach, Like you

530
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:10,400
Speaker 2: can just tell that, Like making the movie was like.

531
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:12,680
Speaker 3: You don't get that anymore when you can tell something

532
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:13,680
Speaker 3: that shot in Vancouver.

533
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 2: No, it's like when I watch Like the King and

534
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 2: it's like, oh, I can tell Timothy shallen Mae like

535
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:22,000
Speaker 2: on his phone in between tapes. Yeah, it's like you

536
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:24,520
Speaker 2: can tell that these actors are just like at each

537
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:27,680
Speaker 2: other's throats and like this is an insane experience.

538
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,480
Speaker 3: Which is why it is cool to go so methods.

539
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:31,400
Speaker 3: So it's like kind of wigs the prison cons where

540
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:34,240
Speaker 3: it's like no, probably like should this man like put

541
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 3: a ship on his back?

542
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 1: Maybe not?

543
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:38,920
Speaker 3: But also you don't get those no.

544
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:41,360
Speaker 2: Sometimes he has some line where he's just like if

545
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,719
Speaker 2: it's not real, I won't do it. It's like he's not

546
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:45,720
Speaker 2: missed special.

547
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:47,399
Speaker 1: Effects say no, which is cool.

548
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 2: Okay, Can I just say I do think this book

549
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 2: is beautiful. As I said, there's a German kind of

550
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:55,200
Speaker 2: like terseness to it that.

551
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 3: I really seem to have a big affinity for Germans,

552
00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:58,480
Speaker 3: as you are one yourself.

553
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,720
Speaker 2: Well, I'm you know, reconnect doing a lot of things. Well,

554
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 2: even though I do identify as one hundred percent Ukrainian obviously,

555
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 2: and I stand with Ukraine, I am also I think

556
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 2: one hundred percent German. But I feel like this book

557
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 2: is very dramatic. But I do think for the most part,

558
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:16,760
Speaker 2: he lets the drama speak for itself, and he has

559
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 2: these poetic turns of phrases that are really He's also

560
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,200
Speaker 2: obsessed with walking. He like walks around the entire country

561
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 2: of Germany and Austria. He's just constantly walking.

562
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 1: The walking part is beautiful.

563
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 3: And to your point about imagination, I miss my childhood imagination.

564
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 3: I would just walk and walk and walk, or bike

565
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 3: and bike with crazy fantasies.

566
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:42,480
Speaker 2: And I do you know, feel a bit pained, right

567
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:47,880
Speaker 2: for the kids of today whose imaginations are so they're

568
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 2: already taken over. They've already been outsourced to all these

569
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 2: other things, and like they have lost I think some

570
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,200
Speaker 2: of that ability to generate ideas for themselves.

571
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,480
Speaker 3: No, I mean, I'm playing out whole movies and it's like,

572
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 3: I don't want us to be so like Greens, but

573
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 3: it's like yeah.

574
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:03,679
Speaker 2: But so it's walk on. I just want to read that.

575
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,320
Speaker 2: This is like he's been walking around Germany forever and

576
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,200
Speaker 2: he's always just like breaking into someone's cabin and finishing

577
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:10,400
Speaker 2: the crossword, which I love.

578
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:13,120
Speaker 3: Well, He's like, do you remember one time I did

579
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:15,879
Speaker 3: part of your mom's crossword? And I remember being in

580
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:18,200
Speaker 3: the back of the Volvo and she goes.

581
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 1: Who touched my crossword?

582
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 2: Oh?

583
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was me?

584
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,359
Speaker 3: And I remember I had filled out a Beach Boys lyric,

585
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 3: but I'd done it correctly.

586
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,919
Speaker 2: Oh, I mean that's really her wheelhouse, Lily right.

587
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 3: I was getting into her music. Yeah, and she was

588
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 3: pissed and then she fell back. I think she thought

589
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 3: it was a dug or something. Oh yeah, and I

590
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 3: was and she was like, oh sorry. But then it

591
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:44,879
Speaker 3: was like, don't ever yeah my crossword. You've never touched

592
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 3: anyone's crossword since wow.

593
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 2: Wait no, but I do want you to get back

594
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 2: into cross I'm afraid of cross you're afraid of crosswords.

595
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 3: And my own courage to finish them. Okay.

596
00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:58,439
Speaker 2: So he's walking around Germany blah blah blah. A few

597
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:00,440
Speaker 2: hours later, still night, I got up, troubled by the

598
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 2: lights down in the valley and the stars overhead, and vomited.

599
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 2: And this is he's young. It's like the fifties, so

600
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:09,159
Speaker 2: like we're yeah, we're all vomiting the fifties. In the

601
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 2: small hours, I fell asleep, but then it started to

602
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 2: get light. The sun was about to rise. Overhead on

603
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:16,879
Speaker 2: a bow, I could hear a bird shaking itself out

604
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:21,119
Speaker 2: and tidying its plumage. After that it started singing. I

605
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:25,879
Speaker 2: got up Germany before dawn looked unredeemed, its torn fields

606
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 2: staring up at the expression of sky. Isn't that just

607
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,480
Speaker 2: a beautiful, chilling way to describe, you know, a country

608
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 2: post war grappling with its identity. I mean, just the

609
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 2: fields staring at the sky. It's not over dramatic. Is

610
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 2: this just beautifully poignant? Are you crying? Yeah?

611
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 1: Crying?

612
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 2: You're reading of that, so, I mean I do.

613
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 3: I'll give it to Werner for kind of like his

614
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 3: chapter on women of his wives.

615
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 2: Oh wait, I love that. It just that had just

616
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 2: a chapter. It's just like wives and children, Like, let's

617
00:28:57,720 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 2: get into it. I married like four times.

618
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, He's like, look like, I'm a crazy director. I

619
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 3: love all my wives. I could have never raised my

620
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 3: children and my children the other way they are because

621
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 3: of them. They're all fab Like do you want to

622
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 3: be married to me? Probably not?

623
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 2: Like no, he is being like, they're fab I mean,

624
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 2: I love how we're talking about his daughter that he

625
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 2: has that actress who doesn't marry our daughter. Hannah is

626
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 2: a visual artist who builds imaginary sets and locates herself

627
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:23,960
Speaker 2: within them. The final result is a photograph. But I

628
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 2: wouldn't describe her as a photographer, So she's kind of

629
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:28,720
Speaker 2: like being kind of a Cindee Sherman in this way,

630
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 2: but not using herself as subject.

631
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:32,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, some art school ass kids.

632
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:35,240
Speaker 2: And then he goes, of course, as of late, she's

633
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 2: transferred herself to written texts. I'm very curious what she

634
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 2: will do next. I see, I know that's the most

635
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 2: I say, so curious about what my daughter is up.

636
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 2: He's going to would love to see her next project.

637
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 3: Her like her gallery show. It's like and he's in

638
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 3: like a big rumpled army.

639
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 2: Cause she has an opening, Hana.

640
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 1: This is wonderful. And he's with the younger wife.

641
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 2: She absolutely calls him Werner.

642
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, she was like, thanks for coming, Verner, and he's

643
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 3: like giving her like really detailed critiques.

644
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely yes, and she's kind of like, okay, yes,

645
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 2: I like the interplay of light in the western corner

646
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 2: of your work. I'm not sure that the subject seemed weak.

647
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 1: This painting looks like it has no courage.

648
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 2: Yes, you need more courage.

649
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 1: Maybe you need to step on now.

650
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 2: And then he's staring at her and just going, you

651
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 2: look like your mother. One of the finest actresses in

652
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 2: German cinema.

653
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 1: She was so beautiful. I looked her up. Did you

654
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 1: look her up?

655
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 2: Oh even matters.

656
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 3: Gorgeous, gorgeous, but kind of interesting, not your normal gorgeous. Yeah,

657
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 3: not normal gorgeous, not.

658
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 2: Like did she kind of have a fucked up nose?

659
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 2: Like what's going on?

660
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 4: She's more like strty well diurdy German.

661
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, we come from sturdy stock and.

662
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 1: Like I mentioned her blonde, she was more brunette.

663
00:30:57,880 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 3: But the first wife, he was very like, oh, she

664
00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 3: was so wonderful, but she said our march collapse because

665
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 3: I was never there. She got a job as an

666
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:07,480
Speaker 3: Austrian TV presenter. Well, of course I did.

667
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 2: Not want to move by a production company. Yeah, well,

668
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:12,440
Speaker 2: because she was going to go to South Africa as

669
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 2: an Austrian TV correspondent, which is one of those random

670
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 2: things where you're like, do those two countries need to

671
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 2: be like corresponding to each other?

672
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 3: And he's like, oh, but she did such an amazing

673
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 3: sound recording on my like seventies documentaries.

674
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:31,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, Zydebar. He does reveal that he had this

675
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,280
Speaker 2: female editor for a long time, and I was kind

676
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:38,480
Speaker 2: of thinking, I do feel like the editor position within

677
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 2: the film industry is like definitely skews more female than

678
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 2: like directors. And then I remembered how Marshall Lucas, George

679
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 2: Lucas's wife is the one who edited all the Star

680
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 2: Wars movies.

681
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, the woman telling the man to be like,

682
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 3: let's cut this down and cut this down to make sense.

683
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 2: It's blah blah blah. It's like they can't kill their darlings.

684
00:31:57,720 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 2: They want to keep everything.

685
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, what if he made the stuff hours? Yeah, of course.

686
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 3: I also lived in the same conduct community as another

687
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:11,240
Speaker 3: famous documentary filmmaker, l Morris Frederick Wiseman, No that I don't.

688
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 1: Know, Okay.

689
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 3: He made a film about a wild mental hospital that

690
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 3: was like also when an Oscar, okay, and he was

691
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 3: like just like also looked like this a bit crazier

692
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 3: and was so scary and I was so like, it's

693
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 3: the booky man. When I was like walking down the street,

694
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 3: he had like crazy gray hair. And I always remember

695
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 3: just like funky girls with bangs.

696
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 1: Who my mom told me were like his editors, like

697
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 1: always like leaving.

698
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 2: Oh, it was like this parade of like bang.

699
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 3: Nineties bangs girls like going there and chopping up the

700
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:47,480
Speaker 3: reel to reels.

701
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 1: Uh.

702
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 2: And maybe one of them had an affair with him.

703
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 1: I mean he had a wife. But I guess you

704
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:53,720
Speaker 1: can have an affair and have a wife.

705
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:55,719
Speaker 2: Yes you can, Yes you can.

706
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:57,760
Speaker 3: But I don't think the bangs girls were getting with

707
00:32:57,800 --> 00:32:58,560
Speaker 3: Fredrick Wiseman.

708
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 2: The bangs were not getting banged.

709
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:02,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like I think Verner herd song is a little

710
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 3: more of a in the documentary, were a little more

711
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:04,560
Speaker 3: of a pimp.

712
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 2: For well, let's talk about him in a pimp for

713
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 2: a second.

714
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 1: So let's get into it.

715
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 2: So, first of all, I mean he was attractive grin

716
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 2: when he was younger, big mustache, hulking, sturdy, sturdy Germany,

717
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 2: but not like so hulk. He kind of like a

718
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 2: little bit lithe too. I mean he he kind of

719
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 2: has like a modern hot seventies like dad energy.

720
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 3: Well, and he played soccer against the Bavarian Butcher's Guild.

721
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 2: And we no soccer keeps you fit as a fit all,

722
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 2: I feel like he has huge No. I think it's

723
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 2: just a beautiful seven in German cock beautiful? Was that

724
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 2: what you got?

725
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 3: Yeah?

726
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 2: Sure? Well, okay, do you remember the scene where they're

727
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 2: in like Peru or something and he's like there was

728
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 2: like some crazy like they was a mining accident and

729
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,959
Speaker 2: then like the villagers thought he was actually the evil

730
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 2: owner of the mine who was responsible for it. But

731
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 2: then they were able to explain that no, we're just

732
00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:00,160
Speaker 2: feed macas and it was like raining. Then he's like

733
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 2: in a hut and then like one of the villagers like, oh, okay,

734
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 2: like here's two local prostitutes. Oh, and then he doesn't

735
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 2: say whether or not him and his friend like enjoyed

736
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 2: the services. But I'm kind of just like me that

737
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 2: was like, oh, they absolutely like slept with these local prostitutes.

738
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:18,760
Speaker 3: I'm sure they did. But there's another part.

739
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:21,240
Speaker 2: Are you talking about in fitzgeraldo oh yes, yeah, Okay,

740
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 2: So this is the part of the book where it

741
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:25,759
Speaker 2: almost feels like it's Mike Lindell, where the amount of

742
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:29,799
Speaker 2: like insane shit that's happening has this incredibly Like. What

743
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 2: I love about his writing style is there's like a

744
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 2: stoicism to German writing, or to just German personalities, where

745
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:37,600
Speaker 2: they just like say something and leave it and then

746
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:40,239
Speaker 2: move on. The whole book is him like mentioning some

747
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 2: person that he like once saw at a store, and

748
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 2: then he's like, and then they later got cancer of

749
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 2: the throat and died, but not before they defeated the

750
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 2: entire German army. But before that they also killed the

751
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:53,479
Speaker 2: mad and then it's like you're like, oh, that was it, Okay.

752
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 2: Then he's aming Fitzgrawaldo. The movie Lily was just mentioning

753
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 2: that's in Brazil. Okay. So we suffered two plane crashes,

754
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:04,600
Speaker 2: each of them single engines. Nessa's one with stores. The

755
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:07,360
Speaker 2: other was several indigenous extras on board. The latter crash

756
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 2: was caused by a twig flying up. Everyone in it

757
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:12,680
Speaker 2: was hurt and one person was left paraplegic. That weighs

758
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:14,560
Speaker 2: on my heart to this day. We later set him

759
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 2: up in a general store we built for him in

760
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 2: the village to provide him with an income. One of

761
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 2: our woodsmen was bitten by a snake, a chashuope, the

762
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:23,759
Speaker 2: most poisonous of all. He knew that his heart and

763
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 2: lungs would be lamed within sixty seconds. At that the

764
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:28,440
Speaker 2: camp with our doctor in this serum was twenty minutes away,

765
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 2: so he picked up his chainsaw and cut off his foot.

766
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:37,360
Speaker 2: He survived. Then three other people were ambushed by the

767
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:41,200
Speaker 2: local Amajuaca people. This like unconducted tribe, and it was

768
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:43,279
Speaker 2: like the driest of seasons. And they were looking for

769
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 2: turtlelegs further down the river than they normally do. They

770
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 2: shot his film crew with six foot long arrows, and

771
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:54,759
Speaker 2: then they have to go operate on them. And then

772
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:58,959
Speaker 2: he's just like he's holding the lantern and with one

773
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 2: hand and the ugspran the other to get rid of

774
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 2: the mosquitoes that are trying to like swarm the woman's

775
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:06,719
Speaker 2: stomach cavity as they're operating on her.

776
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:09,359
Speaker 3: At this point of the book, I almost was like, wait,

777
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:11,040
Speaker 3: are we still filming a movie?

778
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 2: Or like what you are?

779
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:13,720
Speaker 1: Like, are you in war?

780
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:17,799
Speaker 2: Like, like what's happening? We're fully in war. Then his

781
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 2: cameraman splits open the webbing of his fingers because like,

782
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 2: the river's getting so crazy. He too, was stitched up

783
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 2: by her gifted indigenous assistant paramedic who was extraordinarily deaf

784
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 2: with dislocations and stitching up wounds.

785
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 3: Just like h you know, and you have a good

786
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:35,720
Speaker 3: paramedic who's really good with dislocations.

787
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:38,880
Speaker 2: And had once put Maux's dislocated shoulder back, But because

788
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:41,319
Speaker 2: all the anesthetics had been used up in the hour

789
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:45,280
Speaker 2: long operations on the arrow victims, Mau suffer great pains

790
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:47,400
Speaker 2: I held him in my arms, but that didn't help much.

791
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 2: Finally I called in one of the two working girls

792
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 2: we'd employed, Carmen, who squeezed his head between her breasts

793
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 2: and talked to him softly. She did it lovingly, magnanimously

794
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 2: and heroically, like a strange thing for a film production.

795
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:03,880
Speaker 2: But even the Dominican priests from the missionary station at

796
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:06,680
Speaker 2: Timpia fifty kilometers down river had insisted that we have

797
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 2: prostitutes in our company because with the number of male

798
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:11,960
Speaker 2: woodcutters and canoeists, that was of every risk of attacks

799
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 2: on the local populations.

800
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:15,160
Speaker 3: And this is why we need to legalize sex work.

801
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 2: No, it's so true, because the woodcutters are like a

802
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 2: violent demographic and they will like rape the locals if

803
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:25,319
Speaker 2: we don't have prostitutes on.

804
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:28,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, it so right. Anyway, we're not really thought of everything,

805
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:29,160
Speaker 1: you know.

806
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:31,480
Speaker 2: No, I mean I think that there's elements of kind

807
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 2: of the exoticizing Western gaze, and like it could get

808
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 2: into the sort of classic problematic like you know, noble

809
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:41,480
Speaker 2: savage stereotype in the way that he views likedigenous cultures,

810
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 2: but he also is putting his money where his mouth

811
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:46,600
Speaker 2: is and he is always like you know, he always

812
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 2: taking the side of the oppressed, and he is telling

813
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:52,160
Speaker 2: these stories of the oppressives. No, and there's that part

814
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 2: where he almost sees like I toyed with the idea

815
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:57,280
Speaker 2: of making an indigenous Mayan state in Mexico.

816
00:37:57,760 --> 00:37:59,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, he almost goes.

817
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:01,279
Speaker 3: So for the you're just like, oh, are you just

818
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:04,160
Speaker 3: this like white guy being like, isn't it so interesting?

819
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 1: I mean, the people who live in the Amazon and that.

820
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 2: But he's also like doing it, like he's going there

821
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:14,040
Speaker 2: and like fucking getting bitten by so many It is there.

822
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:17,000
Speaker 3: For three years first, like I'm gonna go and shoot

823
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:20,160
Speaker 3: this from a drone and make it for Netflix.

824
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, sot drone.

825
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 1: We'll give him that.

826
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:25,640
Speaker 2: You have to get into that.

827
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 3: So he also has this chapter about like docs he

828
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:31,600
Speaker 3: hasn't made that he wanted to make, and he talks

829
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:37,560
Speaker 3: about these British twins who spoke freaky at the same

830
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:38,920
Speaker 3: time together.

831
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:41,960
Speaker 2: He thinks it's the weirdest thing ever. I'm actually a

832
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 2: little bit like, yeah, I gotta I get that.

833
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 1: Well.

834
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 2: Also, like you and I are finished.

835
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 3: Exactly cut that's away, And I watched this like clip

836
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:53,279
Speaker 3: of them being like British and it's a little more

837
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:56,120
Speaker 3: they're finishing each other's sentences.

838
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:58,320
Speaker 2: Not speaking in exact unison.

839
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:00,160
Speaker 3: But they do at times, which I also think I do,

840
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:02,200
Speaker 3: because sometimes I think I do this on the pod

841
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:03,839
Speaker 3: all the time, and I get annoyed when I hear

842
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:08,120
Speaker 3: myself doing it. Is I get so excited about like

843
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:09,440
Speaker 3: what we're talking.

844
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 2: About, you get afraid of your own courage.

845
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:14,680
Speaker 3: No that I start just kind of like trying to

846
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:16,520
Speaker 3: finish your sentence.

847
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:19,239
Speaker 2: Oh, I see, yeah, And you hear yourself and your

848
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:21,440
Speaker 2: be like let him speak.

849
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 1: Right, And that's sometimes I hear you drone on and

850
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:28,719
Speaker 1: shut her up. But it was like these.

851
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 3: Two twins, they became very sexually attracted to a Lorry

852
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:34,880
Speaker 3: driver was the neighbor who was their neighbor.

853
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:36,920
Speaker 2: I think it was more than neighbor and less Laurie.

854
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:39,480
Speaker 1: But and they would like fuck him in a shed.

855
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 2: Yeah.

856
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:42,440
Speaker 3: And then at one point he decides like it's too

857
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:44,880
Speaker 3: weird to get married, so they get put in jail

858
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 3: for a month.

859
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:46,960
Speaker 2: Wait, the twins go to jail.

860
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 1: Yes, really like harassment.

861
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:52,520
Speaker 2: Oh right, because they're like stalking him, yeah, as their neighbor.

862
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:56,720
Speaker 3: But the end of the book, it is so funny

863
00:39:56,719 --> 00:40:00,799
Speaker 3: because it's like, first, okay, crazy German childhood. You know,

864
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:03,560
Speaker 3: the middle is like Fitzceraldo and like I built it

865
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:05,920
Speaker 3: Deli and arrows, and then the end is like so

866
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:12,160
Speaker 3: his like post Oscar Heyday, where he's being like, so, yeah, actually.

867
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:15,239
Speaker 1: The Simpsons wanted me to have me on, but I

868
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 1: never heard of the Simpsons because I'm like such a

869
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:19,640
Speaker 1: documentary filmmaker and I thought it was just a comic book.

870
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:21,800
Speaker 1: But it turns out it's been on for twenty two seasons.

871
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:23,239
Speaker 1: But then he does the.

872
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:26,600
Speaker 2: Simpsons also goes, I never audition, and then he goes,

873
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:27,880
Speaker 2: I'm only asked.

874
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:31,040
Speaker 3: The sounds of recorder cold didn't help himself from laughing

875
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:33,839
Speaker 3: so loud during my takes that we had to keep

876
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:36,000
Speaker 3: on doing them because they were laughing so long.

877
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 2: He starts just fully bragging by the end where you're like,

878
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 2: and you know, it's like it makes sense. You know,

879
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:42,960
Speaker 2: you've made all these movies about padam mglomaniacs, and we

880
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:44,839
Speaker 2: know that obviously you aren't. You know, you do have

881
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:48,200
Speaker 2: to be one to an extent to be this prolific

882
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:50,520
Speaker 2: and to like, you know, do these things that are

883
00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:55,360
Speaker 2: punishing and like could only result in like potential glory,

884
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 2: like a few years on the line, you see, so

885
00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:57,320
Speaker 2: it is your.

886
00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:58,880
Speaker 3: Time to be on the Simpsons and being like the

887
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:02,960
Speaker 3: sound recorder. Yeah, and he's like Tom Cruise actually respects

888
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:03,439
Speaker 3: me a lot.

889
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:06,680
Speaker 2: Okay, so Tom Cruise was extremely respectful to me because

890
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:08,840
Speaker 2: he's in Jack Reacher, which I haven't seen, which I

891
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:12,919
Speaker 2: should probably love such a he goes. For my part,

892
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:15,400
Speaker 2: I was impressed by his absolute professionalism, which is what

893
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 2: I always think about. He was always thoroughly prepared physically

894
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:21,920
Speaker 2: at peak fitness alert. Among his vast entourage, he had

895
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 2: a dietician who every two hours gave him a tiny,

896
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:29,080
Speaker 2: scrupulously balanced meal. I jokingly asked if he had a

897
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:31,880
Speaker 2: shrink for his dogs there as well. No one else

898
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:34,120
Speaker 2: dared ask him that kind of question, and he seemed

899
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:36,200
Speaker 2: happy that there was someone on side who wasn't rigid

900
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:38,680
Speaker 2: with awe him just being like, yeah, so I'm actually

901
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:43,040
Speaker 2: the only person who's a total fucking terrier around Tom Cruise,

902
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:47,200
Speaker 2: Like sorry, like I'm a botch and I could play ball.

903
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:51,640
Speaker 2: I feel like that's zvie. I've always been just like, wait,

904
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:53,040
Speaker 2: what's the word I use when I say I love

905
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:56,120
Speaker 2: to like confront men, you're a challenger or a challenger?

906
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:58,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're like, hey, Lily, I went to this party

907
00:41:58,400 --> 00:41:58,799
Speaker 1: last night.

908
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:01,319
Speaker 3: I met this guy and she's totally ripping him, like

909
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:04,120
Speaker 3: he challenged me, but then I challenged him.

910
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:06,439
Speaker 2: And he loved being challenged because I called him after

911
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:08,480
Speaker 2: being a total capitalist and he thought that was hot.

912
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:11,480
Speaker 1: And you're like, yeah, we challenged each other all night long.

913
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:15,799
Speaker 2: So he's definitely calling himself a challenger. Also in this

914
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:17,920
Speaker 2: section where he's sort of bragging about how he's like

915
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:20,959
Speaker 2: just so into the art, and we kind of mentioned

916
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:22,799
Speaker 2: this in the beginning, but he goes first of all,

917
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 2: he starts to kind of do how does she live?

918
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:27,719
Speaker 2: Because what does my average day look like? Who are

919
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 2: my friends? What sort of life do I lead? I

920
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:32,799
Speaker 2: have trouble describing myself because I have a vexed relationship

921
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:35,279
Speaker 2: with mirrors. I look in the mirror when I shave

922
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:38,080
Speaker 2: so I don't cut myself, but that shows me my jawline,

923
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:40,719
Speaker 2: not my person. To this day, I couldn't tell you

924
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:44,480
Speaker 2: what color my eyes are. Introspection naval gazing is not

925
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:45,120
Speaker 2: my thing.

926
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:49,279
Speaker 3: So I thought, should we're wrapping this up, I have

927
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:50,399
Speaker 3: to go to Midtown.

928
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:54,960
Speaker 2: Have to go. Sorry, all color my eyes are. I'm

929
00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:58,160
Speaker 2: so straight that I have no idea what I look

930
00:42:58,239 --> 00:42:59,800
Speaker 2: at so many storyboards.

931
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:03,239
Speaker 1: I'm in the Amazon, like I'm in a jungle.

932
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:05,759
Speaker 2: You've got to be kidding me. And it's just like

933
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:08,640
Speaker 2: and of course I know that he is like doing

934
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:12,480
Speaker 2: this on purpose because he's you know, he loves his

935
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 2: he loves his own mythology. He loves his mythology as

936
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:18,839
Speaker 2: being like this crazed outeur who is pursuing his art

937
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:20,920
Speaker 2: to the end of the earth. I mean, he's literally

938
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:22,600
Speaker 2: on the edge of the world. On the cover, it's

939
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 2: like looks like blue eyes. It is hard to tell.

940
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 2: I will say they're dark because Bavaria is dark. I

941
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 2: don't know. It could go either way. Snowy, but yeah,

942
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:37,280
Speaker 2: snow colored eyes. It's right on the border of Austria,

943
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:38,600
Speaker 2: you know what i mean, snow.

944
00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:42,960
Speaker 3: Before we get to segments, I've one questioned for you

945
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:47,400
Speaker 3: that he has to ask himself if you had a

946
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:51,960
Speaker 3: friend who was dying m and they said kill me the.

947
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:56,279
Speaker 2: Bruce Chadwick, could you And he kind of demurs, for

948
00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:58,200
Speaker 2: he doesn't actually kill his friend.

949
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:01,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's like I thought about taking a pillow case

950
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:05,400
Speaker 3: and stuffing it in his mouth, but I couldn't.

951
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:09,320
Speaker 2: Oh god, I kind of love the simplicity of pulling

952
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:12,840
Speaker 2: the plug, you know what I mean. As you say.

953
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:15,440
Speaker 3: Simplicity, he talks about like, oh, it has to be

954
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:18,120
Speaker 3: this violent thing where you're like grabbing like a wood

955
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:20,200
Speaker 3: piece and like smacking them, and it's like it.

956
00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:22,120
Speaker 1: Could just be unplugged.

957
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:25,600
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean I have killed a mouse before. I've

958
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:27,200
Speaker 2: drowned a mouse in my home that.

959
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:29,880
Speaker 1: I caught my neighbor on the last life.

960
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:31,880
Speaker 2: The mouse basically begged me. I mean, it was struggling,

961
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:34,560
Speaker 2: it was attached to the flypaper, and I said, we're

962
00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:37,080
Speaker 2: going to do this the paintless way. I'm not going

963
00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:38,399
Speaker 2: to throw it to the I'm not going to crush

964
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:41,120
Speaker 2: your skull with a dictionary. I'm going to drown you

965
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:45,919
Speaker 2: in a shallow bowl. And I think he appreciated that.

966
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:51,600
Speaker 2: So I'd like to think that I could kill a friend. Yeah,

967
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 2: that's kind of where I'm dadding out on that I

968
00:44:53,239 --> 00:45:05,839
Speaker 2: don't know. And then finish, how does she eat?

969
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:09,080
Speaker 1: How does she live? What does she wear?

970
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:12,480
Speaker 3: Like? I was so director, like I feel like she's

971
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:15,160
Speaker 3: so like rumpled army coat kind of.

972
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:18,239
Speaker 2: I mean obviously, as you said, it's the war. It's

973
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:18,879
Speaker 2: the kind of like.

974
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:22,480
Speaker 3: War, Yeah, like it's a rumpled white the world's kind.

975
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:25,520
Speaker 2: Of it's like being born right in the aftermath of

976
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:29,080
Speaker 2: the war and sort of like seen this just the ravage,

977
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:34,680
Speaker 2: the ravaged, ravaged country in this ravaged continent and being like, oh,

978
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:38,240
Speaker 2: like I'll never have that kind of never have those steaks.

979
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:42,160
Speaker 2: And so yeah, there's gonna be Epaullett's there's gonna be cargo.

980
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:45,120
Speaker 3: Pockets, cargo pockets for like lenses and.

981
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:48,040
Speaker 2: Vast for more like and I think also because he

982
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:49,920
Speaker 2: wants to see himself as someone who doesn't know his

983
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:53,480
Speaker 2: eye collar, he's always gonna wear stuff that seems overly

984
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:56,480
Speaker 2: useful and utilitarian. And yes, but.

985
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:58,720
Speaker 3: Don't you think it still is like this really expensive

986
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:02,480
Speaker 3: jacket that he's like, I've this jocket from thinking.

987
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:05,080
Speaker 2: Is so Blackbird's bly pain and he like he does

988
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:10,319
Speaker 2: know this Japanese like shorecoat attilie. He's like, it's such

989
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 2: a good jackut you only have to got von nine

990
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:16,000
Speaker 2: hundred and sixty five dollars years. Yeah, but then he's

991
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:17,279
Speaker 2: also buying a new and every year.

992
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:19,200
Speaker 3: Right at the same time, he's like, well, I was

993
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:20,920
Speaker 3: visiting my good friend.

994
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:25,080
Speaker 1: Huckle like at his little little wolf shop.

995
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:28,120
Speaker 2: Yess, his tiny wollowy because I think that getting in

996
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:29,600
Speaker 2: to how does she live? It's like I do think

997
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:33,120
Speaker 2: that despite that he is like living in the jungle

998
00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:35,680
Speaker 2: for three years, I think he also does have a

999
00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:38,520
Speaker 2: taste for luxury, yes, and so like.

1000
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 3: So I mean he likes to go to Japanese like.

1001
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:43,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, and like when he talks about how like Jack Nicholson,

1002
00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:46,360
Speaker 2: who was almost in like one movie like flew him oh.

1003
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:48,120
Speaker 1: Wait that it seems completely insane.

1004
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:50,239
Speaker 2: He flies him to Denver to see Lakers game like

1005
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:52,880
Speaker 2: against the Nuggets or whatever. And that also Jack Nicholson

1006
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:55,040
Speaker 2: refuses to be in any movie where he can't see

1007
00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:56,439
Speaker 2: the Lakers play every home game.

1008
00:46:56,719 --> 00:46:59,319
Speaker 3: Okay, but also he's like, oh, Jack Nicholson invited me.

1009
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:02,000
Speaker 3: We're all was watching Laker games. Then one time we're

1010
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:03,799
Speaker 3: all watching it in his.

1011
00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:07,040
Speaker 2: Bed with Angelica Houston and then Werner falls asleep at

1012
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:09,000
Speaker 2: the foot of the bed and Jack's like, sorry, we

1013
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 2: need to fuck.

1014
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:12,120
Speaker 3: It's like that's also just finding him like curling up

1015
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:14,600
Speaker 3: at jagonalls and Angela Houston's feet.

1016
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:16,440
Speaker 2: Wat can I say this? And I can say this

1017
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:18,600
Speaker 2: because my people, there's really very German about that.

1018
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:20,759
Speaker 3: It's very like a new we are new does a

1019
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:22,799
Speaker 3: family and also not getting the cues.

1020
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:25,600
Speaker 2: No, not reading the cues because like obviously German people

1021
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:28,440
Speaker 2: are like, we're all naked in the park together. It's

1022
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:31,319
Speaker 2: a normal family thing to be naked together. So of

1023
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:34,000
Speaker 2: course I'm shoes off on your bed while you're about

1024
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:37,239
Speaker 2: to fuck Angelica Houston. We're all watching vasketball. Oh you

1025
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:38,799
Speaker 2: can have sex. I don't mind.

1026
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:39,279
Speaker 1: I don't care.

1027
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:43,200
Speaker 3: I'll keep on watching the gag. Yeah, batis ar Batis.

1028
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:45,680
Speaker 2: Batis are Batis. He would have been completely content.

1029
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:50,240
Speaker 1: He's like, it's quite interesting his moves that he did.

1030
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:52,400
Speaker 2: So this is why I do think that his house.

1031
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:55,239
Speaker 2: It's like there's this passage where he says he moved

1032
00:47:55,239 --> 00:47:58,160
Speaker 2: to Los Angeles because of course it's the most interesting

1033
00:47:58,239 --> 00:47:59,120
Speaker 2: city in America.

1034
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:01,320
Speaker 3: Ash, He's like, you thing, New York is so cultural.

1035
00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:04,960
Speaker 3: He's like, Los Angeles is there's more photography shows.

1036
00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:08,239
Speaker 2: He says, it also has the best mathematicians. And I'm

1037
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:08,680
Speaker 2: just like.

1038
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:12,240
Speaker 1: What because if you see la.

1039
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 2: I'm just like, because of like one observatory, It's like

1040
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:15,520
Speaker 2: what about Harvard and m I T I mean, I

1041
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:17,640
Speaker 2: don't know. I'm not talking to mathematicians in Boston, but

1042
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:20,200
Speaker 2: I'm it's surprising that he isn't so like Cambridge and

1043
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:22,200
Speaker 2: Berkeley because he is so Cambridge and he is so

1044
00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:24,440
Speaker 2: Errol Morris. But I guess maybe that's Errol's territory and.

1045
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:26,440
Speaker 1: He doesn't want to like, yeah, it's coastal.

1046
00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:29,120
Speaker 2: It's coastal. They're so like Biggie Tupac.

1047
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:32,839
Speaker 1: All my neighbors were were mathematicians, right.

1048
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:36,440
Speaker 3: I think that's the aral rivalry because he has to

1049
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:39,719
Speaker 3: be like, actually, Errol, I live with mathematicians, so we're

1050
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:41,799
Speaker 3: always talking about like because.

1051
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:44,600
Speaker 2: He actually is even a little bit more famine because

1052
00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:48,120
Speaker 2: Errol is being so like dusty cluttered Cambridge house with

1053
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:50,719
Speaker 2: Florida Ceily medieval portraits, and Warner actually is a little

1054
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:54,080
Speaker 2: bit more like dunking memes.

1055
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:57,719
Speaker 3: And I think it's like I'm imagining huge windows mid

1056
00:48:57,760 --> 00:48:59,719
Speaker 3: century yes, oh Ben steel.

1057
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:03,920
Speaker 2: Stairs, and it's leaning. It's massive, like photograph of Angelic

1058
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:04,880
Speaker 2: A Houston leaning.

1059
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:07,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then also like other I.

1060
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:10,560
Speaker 2: Mean there's so many photos of like indigenous tribes and

1061
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:14,560
Speaker 2: masks and masks, honey, it's masked him and Errol.

1062
00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:16,200
Speaker 1: Like both do He's getting Errol a.

1063
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:20,640
Speaker 2: Mask, yeah, and Errol's writing him a letter that's like,

1064
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 2: thank you. I already have several masks from this period,

1065
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:28,880
Speaker 2: but I don't have one this small, So thank you

1066
00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:32,239
Speaker 2: so much for this tiny mask. And I think that.

1067
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:36,000
Speaker 3: I think the bed is low honestly reminiscent of his

1068
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:37,399
Speaker 3: childhood of sleeping on.

1069
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:41,040
Speaker 2: Straw, Yeah, on hard, hard lumpies.

1070
00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:44,040
Speaker 3: Do you think he does the amounda Knox switch asides?

1071
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:44,799
Speaker 1: Every night?

1072
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:51,279
Speaker 2: He's my son, extremely sided because I think he has

1073
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:54,040
Speaker 2: a big, huge pile of books and he's always like

1074
00:49:54,880 --> 00:50:00,400
Speaker 2: he's always like rereading like Chaucer or like rereading Hammarabi's coach.

1075
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:03,480
Speaker 1: Men love to be like, there's one book here I reread.

1076
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:05,040
Speaker 2: Oh, well with the part where he says his favorite

1077
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:09,239
Speaker 2: book is the Dictionary. Oh, and he's like, when I

1078
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:10,880
Speaker 2: had to have a meeting with all of a sacks,

1079
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:13,839
Speaker 2: I forgot the address because I'm so not interested in

1080
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:17,080
Speaker 2: like address addresses, and like because I'm just so by

1081
00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:17,839
Speaker 2: the seat of my pants.

1082
00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:21,760
Speaker 3: And I saw plump Man reading the Dictionary through a window,

1083
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:23,600
Speaker 3: and I knew that had to be him.

1084
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:28,319
Speaker 2: Because only such a cavinist capacious mind would love the

1085
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:33,480
Speaker 2: dictionary as much as I. So he's got a huge dictionary.

1086
00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:33,960
Speaker 1: Huge dictionary.

1087
00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:38,000
Speaker 2: Need to get a dictionary, like wheeling it over on

1088
00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:41,200
Speaker 2: the mid century bar card to the bed. Lena has

1089
00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:43,160
Speaker 2: like glasses on, and maybe she has.

1090
00:50:43,080 --> 00:50:44,560
Speaker 1: The pull up part glasses.

1091
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:47,880
Speaker 2: A she's pull up part glasses. She's almost wearing like

1092
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:51,920
Speaker 2: those like American Airlines headphones from the nineties that are

1093
00:50:51,960 --> 00:50:53,320
Speaker 2: like lightweight and corded.

1094
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:55,320
Speaker 3: Oh, yes, because those are very documentary.

1095
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:57,600
Speaker 2: It's very document it's very like museum guide.

1096
00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:00,480
Speaker 1: Yes to their style museum.

1097
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:04,040
Speaker 2: She's walking around their own house with like a museum

1098
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:08,200
Speaker 2: guide like recorder thing, just like listening to her latest whatever.

1099
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:11,439
Speaker 1: He's very friend of the pot of Alex's dad.

1100
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:14,880
Speaker 3: And he's also buying Japanese like wool dresses for Lena

1101
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:19,440
Speaker 3: and he's like, I saw this dress that a wagon.

1102
00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:22,239
Speaker 2: No, he doesn't know his own eye collar, but he's

1103
00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:23,280
Speaker 2: styling his wife.

1104
00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:28,480
Speaker 1: Yes, I mean I think he's still like me.

1105
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:31,080
Speaker 2: I mean she loves but forgetting. He's hard, loves to

1106
00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:32,399
Speaker 2: say that he's forgetting to eat.

1107
00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:35,200
Speaker 3: Yes, he's like, oh I haven't made anything all day,

1108
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:36,040
Speaker 3: I don't need it.

1109
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:41,440
Speaker 2: Yes, I'm working. I'll just have a hard boiled egg sandwich.

1110
00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:43,919
Speaker 1: I was literally about to say hard boiled eggs.

1111
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:45,560
Speaker 2: But it's hard oiled egg like in wheat.

1112
00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:48,760
Speaker 1: Bread with no rye, heavy rye.

1113
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:51,759
Speaker 2: And like it's very dry. Oh, it's just butter and

1114
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:54,239
Speaker 2: hard boiled eggs. That's very German.

1115
00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:57,719
Speaker 3: German that and then like he'll do a Shapenese, he'll

1116
00:51:57,719 --> 00:51:58,440
Speaker 3: do a dinner.

1117
00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:02,480
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, And he's definitely like slamming all the solids

1118
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:04,280
Speaker 2: at Shay, Like, oh, he.

1119
00:52:04,239 --> 00:52:07,480
Speaker 3: Drinks that much, but like also has a lot of

1120
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:09,400
Speaker 3: wine that like people's given him.

1121
00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:12,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he's a social drinker. It's like he's

1122
00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:15,720
Speaker 2: being handed whatever, like either the goats blood or the beer,

1123
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:16,520
Speaker 2: and he's like I'm.

1124
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:19,200
Speaker 1: Doing in like a Boordain way.

1125
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:21,399
Speaker 2: But then I'm like, maybe he drinks way more than

1126
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:23,400
Speaker 2: he lets on in this Ulysses says Grant way, and.

1127
00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:25,200
Speaker 1: That's why he is red facing crazy.

1128
00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:29,919
Speaker 2: And I mean he's also like, yeah, I think he's

1129
00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:31,600
Speaker 2: red facing crazy just because he's like, no, we're in

1130
00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:33,800
Speaker 2: sun screens. People don't know about that in the sixties.

1131
00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:35,480
Speaker 1: Wait, who are you in the book?

1132
00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:39,080
Speaker 3: I was gonna say, either we are the British twins that.

1133
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:43,520
Speaker 2: Were because we want to fuck a lorry driver.

1134
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:47,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I think it's like hilarious harass him.

1135
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:52,120
Speaker 2: Okay, but are you the PA on the Harmony Karen

1136
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:55,560
Speaker 2: Set He's like dragging Harmony Karin. He's been like this

1137
00:52:56,080 --> 00:52:59,120
Speaker 2: stuff is obsessed with IM. I go upstairs and all

1138
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:00,840
Speaker 2: of a sudden, he want to walk talk. He's on

1139
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:03,239
Speaker 2: the stass. Then I come back downside and they say

1140
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:04,279
Speaker 2: he's on site.

1141
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:08,120
Speaker 1: But you're also kind of werner sometimes where you are like.

1142
00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:10,440
Speaker 2: But then it's just like I would love to like

1143
00:53:10,640 --> 00:53:12,400
Speaker 2: really devote myself to my art, but then I do

1144
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:14,200
Speaker 2: feel like I am like not wanting to be in

1145
00:53:14,239 --> 00:53:15,360
Speaker 2: the jungle for three years.

1146
00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:16,360
Speaker 1: Definitely not that.

1147
00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:18,680
Speaker 3: But I think you would push to like get a

1148
00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:20,520
Speaker 3: ship rot somewhere.

1149
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:22,160
Speaker 2: I'm just like it needs to be this.

1150
00:53:22,719 --> 00:53:24,400
Speaker 1: But then like you're leaving and you're like, wait, what

1151
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:25,280
Speaker 1: happened with the ship?

1152
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:28,360
Speaker 2: I mean like wait, so like did you guys like

1153
00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:30,560
Speaker 2: clean that up or like what went down? I'm so

1154
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:33,840
Speaker 2: curious to know. Oh, let me know. I'm going to Malta.

1155
00:53:34,239 --> 00:53:40,799
Speaker 1: I give this book like four point five arrows. Four

1156
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:41,919
Speaker 1: point five's lot.

1157
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:44,640
Speaker 2: Actually, I mean honestly, I'm giving this five out of

1158
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:46,719
Speaker 2: five on of Miss Snakes. I think this is like

1159
00:53:47,239 --> 00:53:48,799
Speaker 2: there weren't five out of five. There were so many

1160
00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:52,040
Speaker 2: times and I was like, oh my god, oh my god,

1161
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:54,880
Speaker 2: oh my god. Where it's like there's that, But then

1162
00:53:54,920 --> 00:53:57,200
Speaker 2: there's all these really beautiful moments, and I do feel

1163
00:53:57,200 --> 00:54:01,080
Speaker 2: like it's revealing just enough, like there's just an up tea,

1164
00:54:01,280 --> 00:54:05,880
Speaker 2: like it's got really there's history. It's like the child.

1165
00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:08,160
Speaker 3: It does have it all in the end, stuff of

1166
00:54:08,239 --> 00:54:11,600
Speaker 3: him bragging and like just like being like wife chapter Harmony,

1167
00:54:11,600 --> 00:54:14,600
Speaker 3: current track was kind of funny instead of celebrities wrap

1168
00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:17,080
Speaker 3: it up with their life and now I started a charity.

1169
00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:18,759
Speaker 2: No, I was so ready for it to get to

1170
00:54:18,840 --> 00:54:20,720
Speaker 2: charity land, but then the end of the book actually

1171
00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:22,080
Speaker 2: became kind of the most revealed.

1172
00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:25,600
Speaker 3: My favorite partner just being like I love coffee in

1173
00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:26,280
Speaker 3: Los Angeles.

1174
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:30,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I really can't recommend this book on off.

1175
00:54:30,239 --> 00:54:33,279
Speaker 1: I take your time with it, like we did, you

1176
00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:33,680
Speaker 1: know a.

1177
00:54:33,719 --> 00:54:39,040
Speaker 2: Couple of weeks. Let it seep in and watch his films, yeah,

1178
00:54:39,239 --> 00:54:40,960
Speaker 2: or watch some of them. Yeah, I don't obviously do

1179
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:42,120
Speaker 2: not have to watch all. Yeah.

1180
00:54:42,239 --> 00:54:44,239
Speaker 3: I started the one about death Row and then I

1181
00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:46,640
Speaker 3: was like, this is actually to depressing and it's funny

1182
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:47,600
Speaker 3: because I.

1183
00:54:47,600 --> 00:54:49,359
Speaker 2: Said, and I also thought it was gonna be too sad.

1184
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:51,399
Speaker 3: In his book, he wanted to do more of those,

1185
00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:54,640
Speaker 3: and then he was waking up screaming, and his wife said,

1186
00:54:54,640 --> 00:54:58,120
Speaker 3: you know, you don't have to continue doing death row docs.

1187
00:54:58,239 --> 00:55:02,520
Speaker 3: So me and Bernard agreed, I didn't have to watch

1188
00:55:02,600 --> 00:55:05,160
Speaker 3: the death row do Okay?

1189
00:55:06,320 --> 00:55:09,279
Speaker 2: So fun can you guys get out there and you know,

1190
00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:11,960
Speaker 2: as Werner says, the world reveals itself to those who

1191
00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:14,439
Speaker 2: travel it on foot. So go for a walk.

1192
00:55:14,760 --> 00:55:16,640
Speaker 1: Go for a walk and just look around.

1193
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:29,800
Speaker 2: Fantasize yes, generated images from them ball Balls. Celebrity Books

1194
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:35,600
Speaker 2: Club was produced in Bavaria by Dabi Masters. The supervising

1195
00:55:35,719 --> 00:55:42,120
Speaker 2: producers a Booza far who circumnavigated the globe in a

1196
00:55:42,320 --> 00:55:47,399
Speaker 2: small metal tool in nineteen thirty five. It was engineered

1197
00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:51,200
Speaker 2: by Bahit Fresher in the very small village on the

1198
00:55:51,239 --> 00:55:56,160
Speaker 2: Alpine border where everyone shares one cow as a best friend.

1199
00:55:56,880 --> 00:56:03,160
Speaker 2: The executive producer was Christine Everett, who died in an

1200
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:08,000
Speaker 2: avalanche in nineteen sixty one, but not before she became

1201
00:56:08,200 --> 00:56:11,920
Speaker 2: the first woman to summit the matterhorn in the nut

1202
00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:18,279
Speaker 2: Teddy Blanks did the graphic design. He also died in

1203
00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:23,000
Speaker 2: an avalanche nude. Stephen Phillips, host did the theme song.

1204
00:56:23,520 --> 00:56:27,400
Speaker 2: He is one of the most beautiful men who have

1205
00:56:27,680 --> 00:56:33,880
Speaker 2: ever skied the length of the border of Liechtenstein and Germany.

1206
00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:36,839
Speaker 2: It is a short border. It was not very hard,

1207
00:56:36,920 --> 00:56:42,280
Speaker 2: but he was the first. He also is my brother

1208
00:56:42,719 --> 00:56:48,160
Speaker 2: and lover. Prolog Projects originally created the show in Gdansk

1209
00:56:48,719 --> 00:56:52,879
Speaker 2: before the German repatriated it during the time we won't

1210
00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:56,040
Speaker 2: talk about and if you would like to know more

1211
00:56:56,080 --> 00:56:58,680
Speaker 2: about the show, you can go to Patreon dot com,

1212
00:56:58,719 --> 00:57:03,239
Speaker 2: slash CBC the pod. It is an interesting website on

1213
00:57:03,280 --> 00:57:07,799
Speaker 2: the World Wide Web where you can pay money to

1214
00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:14,600
Speaker 2: get more media into your portable device. Dank Ashank