Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Crypto Daily Bloomberg I heard podcast. It's Tuesday,
Speaker 1: October four. I'm a senior crypto editor for Bloomberg News.
Speaker 1: In Today for Stacy Marine. For many of us, the
Speaker 1: pandemic has meant getting to know what it's like to
Speaker 1: work remotely and in most cases, from home. But in
Speaker 1: crypto remote working had already been the norm for some time,
Speaker 1: with many workers roaming the world all year round and
Speaker 1: logging in from dreaming locations like the sandy beaches of
Speaker 1: the Caribbean or the palm line prominence of Miami Beach.
Speaker 1: When crypto prices were high, these roving crypto workers enjoyed
Speaker 1: the benefits of being digital nomads, being from country to
Speaker 1: country in an attempt to leave behind the stress, expense,
Speaker 1: and bustle that's often associated with large financial centers. But
Speaker 1: now that the crypto market isn't quite a sunny many
Speaker 1: of these nomads have started trickling back to the financial
Speaker 1: hubs of the world. Today. I'm joined by Bloomberg reporter
Speaker 1: taz Aktar. It's also like communities have been built all over,
Speaker 1: like for example, Miami, Estonia, Portugal and Panther Protocol CEO
Speaker 1: Oliver Gail. Nothing will substitute for the human experience, So
Speaker 1: people need to come together to hear more about the
Speaker 1: crypto nomad lifestyle and why for the time being, he's
Speaker 1: trying to give it up. Hi, Oliver Taz, thank you
Speaker 1: for joining me. Hello, So let's start tas. You want
Speaker 1: to tell us how you know Oliver, how you guys
Speaker 1: met and how he ended up being in one of
Speaker 1: our stories. Yeah, sure, so I'm at It's Ali back
Speaker 1: in Miami in April. So we met as a crypto
Speaker 1: dinner hosted by the car Donal founder Charles Hoskinson. Um.
Speaker 1: Back then we were actually in a bear market as well, right, well,
Speaker 1: I don't know what crypto was trading out, but we
Speaker 1: was like, well, into a bear market, like we are now.
Speaker 1: Um and yeah, so he told me about his exchange
Speaker 1: called bit, which is headquartered in Barbados, and then we
Speaker 1: kept in touch by Instagram and here we are. Yeah.
Speaker 1: It was pretty I guess it was pretty organic. But
Speaker 1: I think during that dinner we mostly talked about travel,
Speaker 1: you know, chasing the sunsets and all. You were showing
Speaker 1: me pictures of like Barbados and his lifestyle on the road.
Speaker 1: I was talking about pizza quite a bit. So we
Speaker 1: both kind of had a similar lifestyle, right, So yeah,
Speaker 1: so tells what were your reporter? Now? What were you
Speaker 1: doing in Miami? I was covering the crypto conference, So
Speaker 1: a lot of my lifestyle involved like just chasing conferences
Speaker 1: and just being embedded with the crypto community. Really because
Speaker 1: you are a crypto Noma too, right for our listeners,
Speaker 1: like they might not all this, but we have too
Speaker 1: crypto two former cryptom But I'm I wouldn't say I'm
Speaker 1: well into the crypti industry, like I don't hold cryptome objective, right,
Speaker 1: So I was kind of like just getting a feel
Speaker 1: of what Miami is about. That's what happens. And actually
Speaker 1: Surrest was there as well, wasn't he the Miami um
Speaker 1: mayor mayor sorry the Miami So he was needed an
Speaker 1: opening note back into you were I mean you were
Speaker 1: sitting at the right table, you know, as a crypto journalist.
Speaker 1: Because you know, when Charles walks, the ground shakes a
Speaker 1: little bit, all right, So all they tell us about yourself,
Speaker 1: like where you're from, like and how and very how
Speaker 1: you ended up here in London again, right, because from
Speaker 1: Miami to where you were before like, yeah, well, some
Speaker 1: people say my accident is international and or is it Irish?
Speaker 1: And definitely not from Ireland and from Barbados and uh
Speaker 1: I was born in England but grew up in Barbados
Speaker 1: from an infant onwards. And my background in crypto really
Speaker 1: I set up the first Caribbean bitcoin exchange and mining
Speaker 1: company and then we just had huge problems with correspondent
Speaker 1: banks and regulators and so we ended up partnering with
Speaker 1: the Eastern Caribbean government and did the first central buying
Speaker 1: digital currency and so that was early days. I was
Speaker 1: CFO and president and co founder of that company, and
Speaker 1: then I left and set up a venture studio and
Speaker 1: began incubating protocols um CEO of one called Panther Protocol now,
Speaker 1: which is working to make everyone free by restoring privacy
Speaker 1: and rights to sovereignty. And that company was formed during
Speaker 1: the pandemic and so we raised all the capital, assembled
Speaker 1: the team began building the technology all remotely and it
Speaker 1: was a joy. But I've been traveling since twenty fourteen,
Speaker 1: moving countries for businesses. So what is it like the
Speaker 1: give us a sense that you're like, how long do
Speaker 1: you stay in one place? Do you know where you're
Speaker 1: gonna go next? Like how do you pick the places?
Speaker 1: Is it where there's a conference where the sun is Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1: I mean those last two points are really important for
Speaker 1: me at least that where's the sun shining? Where is
Speaker 1: there a conference or or business that can be done.
Speaker 1: I feel like at this day in time, you can
Speaker 1: do business remotely quite effectively, and so I can really operate.
Speaker 1: You know, we operate across almost all time zones as well,
Speaker 1: because it's not just one company. There's a a UK
Speaker 1: credit platform, there's a Gibraltar protocol business, there's a Delaware
Speaker 1: protocol business, there's a Cayman fund, there's the Barbadian Exchange,
Speaker 1: and so the team is all over the world. So
Speaker 1: wherever I am, I'm always in some some pockets time
Speaker 1: zone and we work an asynchronously a lot so emails
Speaker 1: and messenger platforms. I think it's also important noting that
Speaker 1: Oliver's lifestyle is quite common within the crypto industry, so
Speaker 1: you're gonna find a lot of businesses are decentralized, and
Speaker 1: there's also like communities that have been built all over
Speaker 1: like for example Miami, Estonia, Portugal. So I tell us
Speaker 1: why have you decided to kind of settle down and
Speaker 1: white London? And you know, have you seen more cryptonomics
Speaker 1: moved back to financial centers, Because I guess that's kind
Speaker 1: of the point of what we wrote, is like there
Speaker 1: was lots of moving around, but like slowly as the
Speaker 1: center's reopen, more people are trickling back. Yeah, and people
Speaker 1: want to see each other in person, you know, so
Speaker 1: the waiting of in person meetings has gone back up.
Speaker 1: In the pandemic, it was perfect. I loved it. Every
Speaker 1: thirty minutes you have a different meeting with somebody, you
Speaker 1: really connect with them virtually and you do whatever needs
Speaker 1: to be done because that's how you have to do it.
Speaker 1: Whereas now there's a discount on that. It's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: the virtual conference is great, but you know what's better
Speaker 1: looking someone in the eyes and shaking their hand. And
Speaker 1: since we can do it, we want to do it.
Speaker 1: And so that's my general observation when I look at
Speaker 1: London itself. Though um London is a fintech hub. It
Speaker 1: does have very good tax incentives for things like research
Speaker 1: and development if you're building software. They have good incentives
Speaker 1: for investors. European investors are are strong. British investors are strong,
Speaker 1: not as strong as those in the US in terms
Speaker 1: of their risk appetite and check size, but uh, what
Speaker 1: you've got is a huge pool of talent. And from
Speaker 1: a lifestyle perspective, to me, London is it. I mean
Speaker 1: the weather shore is not great, but I don't spend
Speaker 1: winter here, so it's like I'm you know, getting on
Speaker 1: a plane any minute now, it's October coming up. I
Speaker 1: won't be here for October and I never will if
Speaker 1: I can avoid it, unless I have to come for business.
Speaker 1: And you asked, like, what's it looked like in the
Speaker 1: I would say sixteen I was spending six months or
Speaker 1: so on average in a place. Now it's more like
Speaker 1: six days, maybe two weeks, and then ago wherever else.
Speaker 1: A lot of the time it's just synchronicity. You meet
Speaker 1: someone or see someone and you do business and they're like, hey,
Speaker 1: what are you doing next week? You should come so
Speaker 1: and so and speak or how or have a meeting
Speaker 1: or hang out and so you do it. So how
Speaker 1: how do you do that? I mean, I guess everybody's
Speaker 1: situation is different, but it seems quite expensive to move
Speaker 1: from one place to another because someone just invites you
Speaker 1: to a meeting or a conference and like, so, so,
Speaker 1: how has that, like the crypto winter affected movement, you think,
Speaker 1: for you and for the community at larger you seeing
Speaker 1: more people saying I have to like tone it down.
Speaker 1: In the bowl market, these conferences start to resemble a festival,
Speaker 1: and everybody's quote unquote got it, and they're you know,
Speaker 1: sailing high. Then the bear market comes around, and just
Speaker 1: like birds of migrating in winter, all of the transient
Speaker 1: people disappear again. And in the peak of a bear market,
Speaker 1: which we might not be in right now, uh like
Speaker 1: it could go, could go a lot longer than this.
Speaker 1: Then you start to look around the room and you
Speaker 1: see the familiar faces. Ah yeah, yeah, real ogs, that's
Speaker 1: what that's what they call them in crypto, And so yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it is expensive though, however, I've been in
Speaker 1: crypto a long time, so like there's multiple ways to
Speaker 1: look at it. One is I'm enjoying my life. The
Speaker 1: other is the impact that I have where I go
Speaker 1: exceeds the cost of what I'm doing, how much, you know,
Speaker 1: staying in a hotel or wherever. After the break More
Speaker 1: from Panther Protocol Ceo Oliver Gale about living the crypto
Speaker 1: nomad lifestyle and the lessons he's learned along the way.
Speaker 1: All my life, I've always been about my growth. In
Speaker 1: case you didn't no. Oliver is also a singer songwriter.
Speaker 1: The music underneath Us right now is Oliver's own song
Speaker 1: called Sail the Coast. So when you think about your
Speaker 1: time around the world, what were some of the lessons
Speaker 1: you learned or things that you think will stay with
Speaker 1: you as you remain in one place. Can you still
Speaker 1: be a nomad at heart, but like sleep in the
Speaker 1: same bed. Yeah, I think that's a that's a great
Speaker 1: place to look at it from, really and truly, there's
Speaker 1: a level of letting go of the plan when you're
Speaker 1: living a nomadic lifestyle because it's very difficult to plan,
Speaker 1: and if you do, changing flights and accommodation all the
Speaker 1: time will be the inevitable outcome. So I think one
Speaker 1: of the big things for me is it's pulled me
Speaker 1: into a sense of sometimes not knowing where I'm going
Speaker 1: to be tomorrow, Like tomorrow is tomorrow's problem, So let's
Speaker 1: figure out what Whether it's what meetings I have, where
Speaker 1: I have to go on my flying you know, I'll
Speaker 1: figure be told I'm flying tomorrow, but really, like, I
Speaker 1: don't even make plans anymore. And so there's a beauty
Speaker 1: to that because it gives you a huge sense of freedom.
Speaker 1: I think the other side to that too is I
Speaker 1: occur in people's lives like an ephemeral figure. Oh wow,
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, you're in l a Yeah, oh cool,
Speaker 1: you live here. No, I'm going to London. Then I'm
Speaker 1: in London. Oh you're in London. Do you live here?
Speaker 1: And no? Not right now, I'm going to Barbados. Oh wow,
Speaker 1: you're backing Barbados. No, good to see you again. So
Speaker 1: you stay. No, I'm off to Colombia. That's literally the
Speaker 1: last that's the two weeks in my life. That's the
Speaker 1: week that just passed, and it's the next two weeks
Speaker 1: in front of me. So it's great to form meaningful
Speaker 1: connections with people, whether they're personal or professional. But that's
Speaker 1: the challenge and I'm I'm really looking forward to actually
Speaker 1: grounding myself and building some more permanent community as well.
Speaker 1: And for me, big city like London, right next to Europe,
Speaker 1: different weather to the Caribbeans, so I can basically arbitrage
Speaker 1: the seasons but as companies scale and the sector matures,
Speaker 1: you think more people will need to have basis and
Speaker 1: you'll need to colless around communities are not read it
Speaker 1: like is there a benefit like, as you said, you know,
Speaker 1: meeting people and shaking their hand. Do you need that
Speaker 1: with your colleagues at one point? Right, because people listening
Speaker 1: to this will have experience working from home and never
Speaker 1: seeing their colleagues for two years and maybe they're seeing
Speaker 1: them now and they're like, WHOA, Yeah, it's actually cool
Speaker 1: to like chat before work, Like you need that to
Speaker 1: to scale a company or not? Really, I'm going to
Speaker 1: say it would definitely depend on the industry. In tech,
Speaker 1: I don't think so. I think cultural precedent was redefined
Speaker 1: during the pandemic, and it's pretty clear that if you
Speaker 1: have the right communication tools, project management tools, and accountable
Speaker 1: team you really need. You need a team of people
Speaker 1: that do what they say they will do when they
Speaker 1: say they'll do it. Otherwise distributed teams, remote teams don't work.
Speaker 1: So my experience of building teams of this nature is
Speaker 1: one bad apple can spoil the whole bunch because it's
Speaker 1: like a bad communication note in your network of people.
Speaker 1: They've got to go. You've got to find the right people.
Speaker 1: A tech facilitates that because it's non physical. That being said,
Speaker 1: nothing will substitute for the human experience. So people need
Speaker 1: to come together. I think working spaces are important. Workshops
Speaker 1: and team bonding sessions are important and also very difficult
Speaker 1: to coordinate. I've been trying to do it with Panther
Speaker 1: for like four months now, just to get people together,
Speaker 1: have some fun together. You know, it brings you together
Speaker 1: around the mission division of your company, so I would
Speaker 1: I'm not discounting it. And then as well, it depends
Speaker 1: on your position, So if you're the deal maker or
Speaker 1: responsible for bringing in capital one way or the other,
Speaker 1: nothing's gonna be sitting down with someone and spending particularly
Speaker 1: if you do everything but talk about business. That's really helpful.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Oliver, Thank you tas. You can find more
Speaker 1: of tas aktars reporting on the Bloomberg Terminal, on Bloomberg
Speaker 1: dot com and on Twitter at tansil Underscore Actar. That's
Speaker 1: at t A n Z E L Underscore A K
Speaker 1: H T A R. I'm Alera in today for Stacy
Speaker 1: Mary Ishmael on the next episode of Bloomberg Crypto Adam Newman,
Speaker 1: known for founding we Work and popularizing the idea of
Speaker 1: coworking spaces, as well as for extravagance in ex centric behavior,
Speaker 1: is back, and this time there's a crypto angle. This
Speaker 1: is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily podcast from Bloomberg and I
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Speaker 1: Moses on m Desta wonder At is our engineer. Original
Speaker 1: music by Leo Sidrin. I'm Stacy Marie Schmaal. We'll be
Speaker 1: back tomorrow.