WEBVTT - Taxonomy of the Modern Mystery Story

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<v Speaker 1>Pushkin. Hello, Hello everyone, Malcolm Glapwell here we're continuing our

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<v Speaker 1>build up to the main event in this season of

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<v Speaker 1>Revision's History, which is a mini series on guns, six

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<v Speaker 1>parts beginning August thirty first, which is some of my

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<v Speaker 1>favorite work that we've ever done, a Revision's History. So

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<v Speaker 1>please put that on your calendar and if you want

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<v Speaker 1>to binge listen to it early without any adds. Go

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<v Speaker 1>to Pushkin dot fm, slash plus and sign up for

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<v Speaker 1>a Pushkin subscription anyway to get you in the mood

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<v Speaker 1>for that series, which I will say right now goes

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<v Speaker 1>in some very strange directions. I thought i'd give you this.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a speech I gave at the New Orleans Book

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<v Speaker 1>Festival at Tulane University. I asked the organizers if I

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<v Speaker 1>could do it, an old fashioned lecture on murder mysteries

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<v Speaker 1>and police procedurals, which I have been obsessed with ever

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<v Speaker 1>since my dad read schrlock Holms short stories to me

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<v Speaker 1>and my brothers when we were kids. They said sure,

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<v Speaker 1>and I said, oh my god. So picture a packed auditorium.

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<v Speaker 1>Everyone has book bags, and while they're waiting, they're reading books.

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<v Speaker 1>They're not on their phones, catching up on their crust.

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<v Speaker 1>This is a talk to a room full of serious readers,

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<v Speaker 1>which is to say, a room full of people who

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<v Speaker 1>are more interested in being delighted than they are in

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<v Speaker 1>being persuaded. My kind of people. All Right, here it is.

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<v Speaker 1>I want to thank the New Orleans Book Festival for

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<v Speaker 1>allowing me this time today. I wanted to start by

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<v Speaker 1>apologizing for the title. I don't know if you saw

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<v Speaker 1>the title in the program, Eastern, Western, Northern, Southern, and

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<v Speaker 1>over theorized and potentially absurd taxonomy of the modern mystery story. First,

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<v Speaker 1>a simple warning that title is dead serious. This whole

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<v Speaker 1>episode is going to get a little absurd and over theorized.

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<v Speaker 1>So don't stand up at the end and say, mister Glawell,

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<v Speaker 1>I found your presentation absurd and over theorized. I already

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<v Speaker 1>warned you. I have disclosed that risk at the outset. Secondly,

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<v Speaker 1>I've chosen to speak about crime novels because and mysteries

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<v Speaker 1>because I'm addicted to them. I read in order spy novels,

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<v Speaker 1>thrillers of various kinds, novels involving events that potentially threaten

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<v Speaker 1>the safety of the entire planet, and the category that

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<v Speaker 1>concerns us today police procedurals and crime stories and their

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<v Speaker 1>television and film equivalents. You know when you go into

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<v Speaker 1>the Hudson News in an airport and there's that whole

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<v Speaker 1>wall of paperbacks. I have read every one of those

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<v Speaker 1>paperbacks except for the ones with the word girl in

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<v Speaker 1>the title. My daughter, who is eighteen months old, spends

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of time in a very large playpen, and

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<v Speaker 1>the playpen immediately abuts the bookcase where I keep all

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<v Speaker 1>of my thrillers, and a couple days ago she reached

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<v Speaker 1>up and grabbed Daniel Silva's The Kill Artist and started

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<v Speaker 1>to turn the pages. Now, The Kill Artist is the

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<v Speaker 1>first installment in Daniel Silva's series of books on the

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<v Speaker 1>legendary Israeli assassin Gabriel Alon, involving, in this case, his

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<v Speaker 1>pursuit of the dastardly Palestinian terrorist Tarik. It's one of

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<v Speaker 1>my favorite books ever. And I mean, I don't think

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<v Speaker 1>any father ever has been more proud of his daughter

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<v Speaker 1>than I was at that moment. But as I said,

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<v Speaker 1>it's stories about the police that concern us today, because

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<v Speaker 1>I think that stories about the police have not been

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<v Speaker 1>given nearly the kind of close cultural scrutiny that they deserve,

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<v Speaker 1>which makes no sense because the attitude of popular culture

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<v Speaker 1>towards the police is really, really weird. So, there are

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<v Speaker 1>two million truck drivers in the United States. How many

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<v Speaker 1>TV books and movies and novels are there about truck drivers? Right?

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<v Speaker 1>Once in a blue moon? There are three million nurses

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<v Speaker 1>in the United States. How many movies are there about nurses?

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<v Speaker 1>Is there a genre of fiction devoted to nurses? No,

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<v Speaker 1>there is not. There are four million teachers in the

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<v Speaker 1>United States. Teachers are everywhere. There must be a ton

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<v Speaker 1>of teachers in this room right now. How many teachers

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<v Speaker 1>do you know personally? I'm sure all of us. The

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<v Speaker 1>list is this long. But has any sixteen year old

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<v Speaker 1>ever asked his girlfriend to come with him to see

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<v Speaker 1>the new teacher movie at the multiplex? No, the creative

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<v Speaker 1>role was taught by teachers, nurtured by teachers, encouraged by teachers.

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<v Speaker 1>But they don't want to tell us stories about teachers.

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<v Speaker 1>They want to tell us stories about cops. There are

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<v Speaker 1>only seven hundred thousand police officers in this country, but

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<v Speaker 1>they are massively overrepresented in the culture. My guess is

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<v Speaker 1>that almost everyone in this room can name way more

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<v Speaker 1>fictional police officers than they can name real police officers.

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<v Speaker 1>Have you ever heard a real police officer refer to

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<v Speaker 1>a purp? Have you ever heard a real police officer

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<v Speaker 1>talk about a cold case. Have you ever heard a

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<v Speaker 1>real police officer say you have the right to remain silent.

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<v Speaker 1>Have you ever heard a real police officer say of

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<v Speaker 1>his partner, if you're going in there, I'm going in

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<v Speaker 1>there with you too. Or hold on, Jimmy, just hold on.

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<v Speaker 1>Remember when we were rookies together, Jimmy, No, no, no.

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<v Speaker 1>Virtually everything we know about the police comes from the

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<v Speaker 1>movies and television and novels. Right, martians currently circling the

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<v Speaker 1>United States in a hot air balloon. If I'm sorry,

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<v Speaker 1>If one of those Martians currently circulating the United States

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<v Speaker 1>in a hot air balloon ever gets a Netflix subscription,

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<v Speaker 1>they will say, my god, we appear to have stumbled

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<v Speaker 1>on a country of people running around in tight blue

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<v Speaker 1>uniforms and wearing aviator classes. So today I want to

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<v Speaker 1>ask the question, what have we learned from our immersion

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<v Speaker 1>in all these police procedurals and crime novels, and what

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<v Speaker 1>are the social consequences of that learning? Which is an

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<v Speaker 1>important question, because I think all of those crime books

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<v Speaker 1>and movies have really really screwed us up. Okay, let's

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<v Speaker 1>begin with Ed McMain. Now, for those of you who

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<v Speaker 1>may not be familiar with Ed McBain, he was, in

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<v Speaker 1>the postwar years, one of America's most popular mystery writers.

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<v Speaker 1>He wrote police Procedurals about a fictional eighty seventh precinct,

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<v Speaker 1>and the officers in his precinct were all young men.

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<v Speaker 1>They were all had very pretty wives, they were all

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<v Speaker 1>happily married. They all got along wonderfully. They worked together well.

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<v Speaker 1>And I want to read to you from one of

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<v Speaker 1>the novels in that series, called The Killer's Wedge, and

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<v Speaker 1>it's about one of the officers in the eighty seventh precinct,

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<v Speaker 1>Cotton Hawes, who's just been transferred in from another precinct,

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<v Speaker 1>and the eighty seventh is in a bad part of town,

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<v Speaker 1>and he initially has all kinds of doubts about what

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<v Speaker 1>it would mean to work a poor part of town.

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<v Speaker 1>So this is Ed McBain talking about how Cotton Hawes

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<v Speaker 1>is making sense of his experience. He had learned that

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<v Speaker 1>the people of the slums were only people. They enjoyed

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<v Speaker 1>the same pleasures he did, and they suffered a great

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<v Speaker 1>many misfortunes would never have to suffer. They wanted love,

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<v Speaker 1>and they wanted respect, And the walls of a tenement

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<v Speaker 1>did not necessarily become the cage of an animal. He

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<v Speaker 1>had learned this from the men of the squad. He

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<v Speaker 1>had seen each and every one of them in action.

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<v Speaker 1>Then he goes on, but he was surprised to learn

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<v Speaker 1>that the men of the eighty seventh clung to another

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<v Speaker 1>concept which in no way limited the effectiveness of their

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<v Speaker 1>law enforcement. That concept was fairness. And within this concept

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<v Speaker 1>they knew when to get tough and when to understand.

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<v Speaker 1>They did not automatically equate slum dwellers with criminals. A

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<v Speaker 1>thief was a thief, but a person was a person.

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<v Speaker 1>Now this is eight remarkably idealized view of law enforcement, right.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, let me give you another example from the

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<v Speaker 1>same era, eighteen fifties, which is, of course, the television

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<v Speaker 1>show Dragnet, created by Jack Webb. At its height, Dragnet

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<v Speaker 1>is an astonishingly popular television show. At one point of

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<v Speaker 1>the twenty seven million American homes with televisions, sixteen million

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<v Speaker 1>will be tuned to Dragnet. On Thursday nights when it ran,

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<v Speaker 1>which is a number that has never been approximated since

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<v Speaker 1>it's an insane number. And Dragnet is a show about

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<v Speaker 1>the LPD, and it's the story of a group of dispassionate,

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<v Speaker 1>unbelievably professional, highly competent police officers. One of my favorite

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<v Speaker 1>Dragnet episodes involved Joe Friday, who is the hero of Dragnet,

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<v Speaker 1>arresting a woman for a crime and at the end

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<v Speaker 1>of the episode, the woman he arrests thanks him for

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<v Speaker 1>arresting her, which when has this ever happened in real

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<v Speaker 1>life ever? But it happened in Dragnet. And you know,

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<v Speaker 1>you could make a list of the if you make

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<v Speaker 1>a list of it's a very fun exercise of the

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<v Speaker 1>tops the five most influential television shows of all time

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<v Speaker 1>right sixty minutes. Probably The Real World, which kind of

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<v Speaker 1>invents reality TV, probably put The Cosby Show on there

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<v Speaker 1>for its influence on race relations. But it absolutely is

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<v Speaker 1>the case that Dragnet is one of the five most

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<v Speaker 1>influential and important television shows of all time. And it

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<v Speaker 1>belongs in that list because what it does is it

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<v Speaker 1>represents the first time on television that the same idea

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<v Speaker 1>that Ed McBain has is put forth, and which is

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<v Speaker 1>this notion that the police are good at what they do. Right.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm quoting here from a Time magazine article on Dragnet

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<v Speaker 1>when it first became a hit. The flood of Dragnet

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<v Speaker 1>fan mail suggests that the US completely forgets that it

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<v Speaker 1>is a nation of incipient cop haters when its eyes

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<v Speaker 1>are glued on web show, that it has gained a

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<v Speaker 1>new appreciation of the underpaid, long suffering ordinary policemen, and

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<v Speaker 1>in many cases, its first rudimentary understanding of real life

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<v Speaker 1>law enforcement. So this is Time Magazine in the nineteen fifties,

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<v Speaker 1>when it was the embodiment of Middle America, describing the

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<v Speaker 1>United States as a nation of incipient cop haters. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>today when we think of cop paters, we think of

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<v Speaker 1>you know, progressives, radicalized activists, civil rights zealots. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>back then, Time Magazine is saying America, Middle America were

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<v Speaker 1>the cop haters until people like Ed McBain and Dragon

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<v Speaker 1>Kim along and convinced Americans that their perception of law

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<v Speaker 1>enforcement was wrong. Right. Those shows represent a massive narrative innovation.

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<v Speaker 1>They introduced Americas to an idea that had never occurred

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<v Speaker 1>to them before, and that is the idea of the

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<v Speaker 1>excellent police officer. More on the taxonomy of the modern

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<v Speaker 1>mystery story in a moment. Now back to my speech

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<v Speaker 1>on the taxonomy of police storytelling. Now, this is, of course,

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<v Speaker 1>not the only way that the popular culture represents law enforcement.

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<v Speaker 1>Before Dragon came along, the dominant narrative mode was the Western.

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<v Speaker 1>And what is the Western? It's the parable about the

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<v Speaker 1>consequences of the absence of institutional authority. What do you

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<v Speaker 1>do in your little town on the plains when there

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<v Speaker 1>is no police department. Well, ordinary citizens, possessed of no

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<v Speaker 1>more than their own courage and a six shooter, have

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<v Speaker 1>to restore order on their own. Now, alongside that, you

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<v Speaker 1>had the rise in fiction of the private detective. Herkilpoio

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<v Speaker 1>Sherlock Hoomb's Philip Marlowe Angela Lansbury in Murders, she wrote,

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<v Speaker 1>and what is the prevailing view of law enforcement in

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<v Speaker 1>the world of the private detective? It is that the

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<v Speaker 1>police are present, but they're incompetent. They can only catch

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<v Speaker 1>bad guys with the help of talented outsiders. Right, babamitters,

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<v Speaker 1>If you've read your Sholacombs, you know all about Jola Colmes'

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<v Speaker 1>long relationship with Inspector Lestrade of Scotland Yard. Lestrade is honest,

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<v Speaker 1>he's dogged, he's hard working, but he lacks imagination and

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<v Speaker 1>he can't solve a crime to save his life. And

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<v Speaker 1>there's a moment in the adventure in the Adventures of

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<v Speaker 1>the Six Napoleons in nineteen hundred when we have this

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<v Speaker 1>passage Lestrade is addressing Holmes after Holmes has just done

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<v Speaker 1>one of his spectacular feats of deduction and figured out

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<v Speaker 1>who the real criminal is, and Lestre says, we are

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<v Speaker 1>not jealous of you at Scotland Yard, No, sir, we

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<v Speaker 1>are very proud of you. And if you come down tomorrow,

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<v Speaker 1>there's not a man from the oldest inspector to the

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<v Speaker 1>youngest constable who wouldn't be glad to shake you by

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<v Speaker 1>the hand. So at Scotland Yard they are under absolutely

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<v Speaker 1>no illusion about their own ability, right. They know Holmes

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<v Speaker 1>is better than they are. They know that they're useless

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<v Speaker 1>at this task of crime solving, and that the guy

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<v Speaker 1>with the pipe and the crazy hat from Baker Street

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<v Speaker 1>is the only way they're going to keep the criminals

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<v Speaker 1>of London under control. Same thing in Agatha Christie's her

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<v Speaker 1>kil Paro novels. Right, her kile Paro is solving crime

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<v Speaker 1>after crime to the extent the police ever show up. Right,

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<v Speaker 1>when they show up, they have no idea what's going on.

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<v Speaker 1>And he looks at them, our little Belgian with the

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<v Speaker 1>mustaches looks at the police with absolute contempt because he's

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<v Speaker 1>the only one who can ever finger the bad guy. Right.

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<v Speaker 1>So we have stories about highly competent cops, and for

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<v Speaker 1>the sake of argument, let's call those Easterns. We have

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<v Speaker 1>stories about absent cops. Let's call those Westerns, right, they

0:15:04.156 --> 0:15:09.756
<v Speaker 1>are called Westerns. And we have stories about incompetent cops.

0:15:09.796 --> 0:15:14.676
<v Speaker 1>And let's call those northerns, which only leaves the southern.

0:15:14.876 --> 0:15:18.876
<v Speaker 1>So what's the Southern. Well, the Southern is the narrative

0:15:18.956 --> 0:15:21.676
<v Speaker 1>of the police and authority as malignant.

0:15:22.236 --> 0:15:22.396
<v Speaker 2>Right.

0:15:22.476 --> 0:15:26.796
<v Speaker 1>Think about the great Brian de Palmer movie The Untouchables,

0:15:26.836 --> 0:15:30.156
<v Speaker 1>with Kevin Costner playing the role of elliot Ness, Right,

0:15:30.156 --> 0:15:34.196
<v Speaker 1>the incorruptible Chicago District Attorney elliot Ness who goes on

0:15:34.276 --> 0:15:37.116
<v Speaker 1>his crusade against the mob during the heart of Prohibition.

0:15:37.556 --> 0:15:41.436
<v Speaker 1>The reason it matters that Ness is incorruptible is that

0:15:41.556 --> 0:15:46.036
<v Speaker 1>all around him. The police of Chicago are corruptible, right.

0:15:46.116 --> 0:15:50.436
<v Speaker 1>They're not absent, they're not incompetent, They're not deaft and professional. No,

0:15:50.756 --> 0:15:53.796
<v Speaker 1>they have been seduced by the criminality that they're supposed

0:15:53.796 --> 0:15:57.396
<v Speaker 1>to contain. They are indistinguishable from the bad guys. That's

0:15:57.396 --> 0:16:00.716
<v Speaker 1>what a Southern is, right. So these are the four

0:16:00.876 --> 0:16:09.916
<v Speaker 1>kinds of police stories. Excellence, absence, incompetence, corruption, And this

0:16:09.996 --> 0:16:12.396
<v Speaker 1>is the first. Here's the first of my claims. I

0:16:12.436 --> 0:16:16.796
<v Speaker 1>think that every single example of a crime novel or

0:16:16.836 --> 0:16:20.396
<v Speaker 1>a police procedural falls into one of these four categories

0:16:20.796 --> 0:16:25.436
<v Speaker 1>without exception. So let's explore this. I assume some of

0:16:25.476 --> 0:16:29.156
<v Speaker 1>you have read the Lee Child Jack Reacher series, and

0:16:29.196 --> 0:16:32.876
<v Speaker 1>if you haven't, you need to start right after this.

0:16:33.516 --> 0:16:35.956
<v Speaker 1>The talk is over. I once said a back of

0:16:35.956 --> 0:16:39.036
<v Speaker 1>the envelope calculation based on the very large sample of

0:16:39.116 --> 0:16:42.116
<v Speaker 1>Jack Reacher novels that I've read, which, as it follows,

0:16:42.836 --> 0:16:49.596
<v Speaker 1>Reacher kills on average twelve bad guys per book. There

0:16:49.596 --> 0:16:53.556
<v Speaker 1>are twenty six Reacher books, meaning that he has murdered

0:16:53.556 --> 0:16:56.516
<v Speaker 1>two hundred and eighty four people over the course of

0:16:56.556 --> 0:16:59.396
<v Speaker 1>his life. He is the most prolific serial killer in

0:16:59.476 --> 0:17:04.396
<v Speaker 1>American fiction and yet twenty six years after Jack Reacher

0:17:04.436 --> 0:17:08.116
<v Speaker 1>first appeared in The Killing Floor, he remains at large.

0:17:08.916 --> 0:17:11.876
<v Speaker 1>This is pretty good evidence that the police are absent

0:17:12.676 --> 0:17:17.196
<v Speaker 1>in the Reacher series, the Reacher novels, the Westerns. Only

0:17:17.236 --> 0:17:18.876
<v Speaker 1>in the Western can you get away with killing two

0:17:18.916 --> 0:17:22.236
<v Speaker 1>hundred and four people and remain a large right for

0:17:22.356 --> 0:17:26.156
<v Speaker 1>the Northern For the incompetent police. We have more examples

0:17:26.316 --> 0:17:29.916
<v Speaker 1>than we can count. But the one that I remember

0:17:29.956 --> 0:17:31.876
<v Speaker 1>from my childhood, and many of you are old enough

0:17:31.956 --> 0:17:35.796
<v Speaker 1>to remember this as well, is Hogan's Heroes, the legendary

0:17:35.916 --> 0:17:39.476
<v Speaker 1>nineteen seventies sitcom. For those of you who are too

0:17:39.516 --> 0:17:43.276
<v Speaker 1>young to remember Hogan's Heroes, it was a hugely successful

0:17:43.276 --> 0:17:46.276
<v Speaker 1>TV show set in a German prisoner of war camp

0:17:46.396 --> 0:17:49.476
<v Speaker 1>during the Second World War, in which the comic foils

0:17:49.516 --> 0:17:57.116
<v Speaker 1>of the captured German soldiers were Nazi prison guards. Don't

0:17:57.116 --> 0:18:00.036
<v Speaker 1>even try pitching that show today, by the way, because

0:18:01.676 --> 0:18:04.196
<v Speaker 1>and why do we laugh at the Nazis, if memory

0:18:04.196 --> 0:18:10.796
<v Speaker 1>serves Colonel Klink and Sergeant Schultz right, Not because they

0:18:10.796 --> 0:18:19.276
<v Speaker 1>are malicious or vicious, not because they are ineffective or indifferent. No,

0:18:19.636 --> 0:18:23.276
<v Speaker 1>we laugh at them because they're inapt. Because Clink is

0:18:23.316 --> 0:18:26.956
<v Speaker 1>a self important fool, because Schultz is a clown who

0:18:26.956 --> 0:18:30.876
<v Speaker 1>says I know nothing, I see nothing. Right. The literary

0:18:30.916 --> 0:18:35.796
<v Speaker 1>conceit of Hogan's heroes is that is that the Nazis

0:18:35.796 --> 0:18:39.356
<v Speaker 1>were the three Stooges, which is a northern That's what

0:18:39.396 --> 0:18:43.756
<v Speaker 1>it is. Right. Then there's the Southern authority as malignant

0:18:43.756 --> 0:18:46.396
<v Speaker 1>and corrupt. Who is the king of the Southern Well,

0:18:46.436 --> 0:18:48.836
<v Speaker 1>I think it's obvious if you think about it, it's

0:18:49.516 --> 0:18:53.276
<v Speaker 1>John Grisham. The plot of every John Grisham novel ever,

0:18:53.356 --> 0:18:56.076
<v Speaker 1>and I say this as someone who loves John Grisham

0:18:56.116 --> 0:19:01.196
<v Speaker 1>like a brother, is about the subversion of institutional authority.

0:19:01.636 --> 0:19:05.396
<v Speaker 1>How does the Pelican Brief end? The richest man in

0:19:05.396 --> 0:19:09.196
<v Speaker 1>the country is under indictment, as are his closest aids

0:19:09.236 --> 0:19:11.476
<v Speaker 1>and all of his lawyers. The chief of staff to

0:19:11.516 --> 0:19:14.516
<v Speaker 1>the President of the United States has resigned, and the

0:19:14.556 --> 0:19:19.116
<v Speaker 1>President himself has wisely decided not to seek a second term.

0:19:19.436 --> 0:19:22.316
<v Speaker 1>In the firm, our hero, played in the movie version

0:19:22.316 --> 0:19:25.436
<v Speaker 1>by Tom Cruise, discovers that the biggest client of his

0:19:25.516 --> 0:19:30.996
<v Speaker 1>law firm is a mafia crime family. The FBI gets involved,

0:19:30.996 --> 0:19:33.196
<v Speaker 1>and we think the movie is going to end with

0:19:33.236 --> 0:19:38.836
<v Speaker 1>the FBI helping Tom Cruise resolve the matter. But no,

0:19:39.476 --> 0:19:41.876
<v Speaker 1>what does our hero do. He ends up making a

0:19:41.956 --> 0:19:44.956
<v Speaker 1>deal with the mafia crime family and turning his back

0:19:45.076 --> 0:19:49.436
<v Speaker 1>on the FBI. Why because the FBI double crosses him.

0:19:49.676 --> 0:19:52.676
<v Speaker 1>Of course they do, right, this is a Grisham novel. Right,

0:19:52.916 --> 0:19:56.316
<v Speaker 1>the law is less trustworthy than a mafia crime family.

0:19:57.716 --> 0:20:00.956
<v Speaker 1>I have argued long, at hard over the years to

0:20:01.436 --> 0:20:05.236
<v Speaker 1>very deaf ears that Grisham is the most important literary

0:20:05.236 --> 0:20:09.396
<v Speaker 1>figure of our generation. And I'm not joking. I mean,

0:20:10.636 --> 0:20:13.476
<v Speaker 1>why did so many Americans think the twenty twenty two

0:20:13.556 --> 0:20:18.356
<v Speaker 1>election was stolen, that truckloads of purloined ballots were ferried

0:20:18.356 --> 0:20:21.796
<v Speaker 1>around Philadelphia in the back of pickup trucks, that voting

0:20:21.836 --> 0:20:27.876
<v Speaker 1>machines magically preferred Democrats to Republicans. Because these are the

0:20:27.956 --> 0:20:29.756
<v Speaker 1>kinds of things that happen all the time in John

0:20:29.796 --> 0:20:33.916
<v Speaker 1>grisham novels. Right, And given that John Grisham has sold

0:20:33.956 --> 0:20:38.556
<v Speaker 1>three hundred million books and has had twenty eight consecutive

0:20:38.596 --> 0:20:41.756
<v Speaker 1>number one New York Times bestsellers, it is a statistical

0:20:42.276 --> 0:20:45.196
<v Speaker 1>certainty that a good majority of the people wearing mega

0:20:45.236 --> 0:20:50.156
<v Speaker 1>hats and storming the Capitol on January sixth read a

0:20:50.276 --> 0:20:55.716
<v Speaker 1>Grisham book every night before bedtime, after of course being

0:20:55.756 --> 0:21:01.836
<v Speaker 1>inoculated with their daily dose of Tucker cars. Let's still

0:21:01.876 --> 0:21:05.436
<v Speaker 1>more difficult example. Some of you may have seen the

0:21:05.596 --> 0:21:11.036
<v Speaker 1>new Apple TV series Slow Horse, based on the mickhern

0:21:11.476 --> 0:21:15.796
<v Speaker 1>Spy novels. The show is about an intelligence officer played

0:21:15.836 --> 0:21:19.276
<v Speaker 1>by Gary Oldham who has been exiled to a decrepit

0:21:19.556 --> 0:21:23.956
<v Speaker 1>outbuilding called slow House and along with all the other misfits,

0:21:23.996 --> 0:21:27.676
<v Speaker 1>all the other rejects, screw ups, weirdos who can no

0:21:27.716 --> 0:21:32.196
<v Speaker 1>longer make it within I five headquarters. So what's that? Well,

0:21:32.236 --> 0:21:36.476
<v Speaker 1>that that sounds like a Northern right, It's an authority

0:21:36.516 --> 0:21:37.196
<v Speaker 1>is incompetent.

0:21:37.316 --> 0:21:37.516
<v Speaker 3>Right.

0:21:37.596 --> 0:21:40.156
<v Speaker 1>We have a group of screw ups, but then the

0:21:40.236 --> 0:21:42.636
<v Speaker 1>slow House crew go on to solve some of the

0:21:42.676 --> 0:21:46.876
<v Speaker 1>most pressing national security crises of the day, which makes

0:21:46.916 --> 0:21:50.356
<v Speaker 1>it sound like an Eastern like a dragnet and Ed

0:21:50.436 --> 0:21:55.916
<v Speaker 1>McBain like uber competent authority. So it doesn't fit, right,

0:21:56.076 --> 0:22:01.716
<v Speaker 1>Doesn't that invalidate my theory? No? No, no, Slow Horses

0:22:02.076 --> 0:22:05.796
<v Speaker 1>is just a hybrid, right. It's hybrids have been around forever.

0:22:06.036 --> 0:22:09.556
<v Speaker 1>If you remember how many people read Scarlet Pimpernel novels

0:22:09.596 --> 0:22:12.596
<v Speaker 1>growing up. What is the scarlet pimpernel. He is the

0:22:12.596 --> 0:22:16.756
<v Speaker 1>nobleman who everyone thinks is stupid but is simultaneously outwitting

0:22:16.796 --> 0:22:17.876
<v Speaker 1>all of the evil French.

0:22:18.236 --> 0:22:18.396
<v Speaker 2>Right.

0:22:18.596 --> 0:22:22.756
<v Speaker 1>Or think about Columbo, right, the magnificent nineteen seventies television

0:22:22.796 --> 0:22:26.836
<v Speaker 1>detective series, but where Peter Falk pretends to be a

0:22:26.876 --> 0:22:30.996
<v Speaker 1>bumbling fool but always gets the bad guy in the end.

0:22:31.636 --> 0:22:39.236
<v Speaker 1>These are Easterns masquerading as Northerns. They're Northeasterns. There are

0:22:39.276 --> 0:22:39.916
<v Speaker 1>no easters.

0:22:40.476 --> 0:22:40.676
<v Speaker 3>Right.

0:22:41.356 --> 0:22:44.836
<v Speaker 1>What does Hamlet say to Horatio? There are more things

0:22:44.996 --> 0:22:48.556
<v Speaker 1>in heaven and Earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

0:22:48.756 --> 0:22:52.636
<v Speaker 1>That does not apply to my taxonomy. Okay, Why am

0:22:52.676 --> 0:22:55.716
<v Speaker 1>I going on and on about the four categories? Because

0:22:55.716 --> 0:22:59.756
<v Speaker 1>I think they're deeply problematic, and I think they distort

0:22:59.836 --> 0:23:03.396
<v Speaker 1>our understanding of what policing is. And here I'm going

0:23:03.476 --> 0:23:07.276
<v Speaker 1>to go on a digression and simultaneously get a little

0:23:07.316 --> 0:23:11.516
<v Speaker 1>bit serious. The father of modern policing was a man

0:23:11.596 --> 0:23:15.116
<v Speaker 1>named Sir Robert Peel, and he founds the Metropolitan Police

0:23:15.116 --> 0:23:17.956
<v Speaker 1>Force in London in eighteen twenty nine, which is the

0:23:17.956 --> 0:23:22.036
<v Speaker 1>first great urban police department. And Peel famously sets out

0:23:22.596 --> 0:23:27.396
<v Speaker 1>nine principles that he thinks ought to govern modern police forces,

0:23:27.436 --> 0:23:31.116
<v Speaker 1>and they are as applicable, if not more applicable, today

0:23:31.596 --> 0:23:34.196
<v Speaker 1>than they were in eighteen twenty nine. They are the

0:23:34.236 --> 0:23:37.476
<v Speaker 1>ten commandments of policing. They're what every police officer is

0:23:37.516 --> 0:23:40.876
<v Speaker 1>taught on the first day of their time at police academy.

0:23:41.156 --> 0:23:42.436
<v Speaker 1>And to give you a flavor, I'm going to read

0:23:42.436 --> 0:23:47.156
<v Speaker 1>a couple of Peel's principles. The ability of the police

0:23:47.156 --> 0:23:51.116
<v Speaker 1>to perform their duties is dependent upon public approval of

0:23:51.196 --> 0:23:55.916
<v Speaker 1>police existence, actions, behavior, and the ability of the police

0:23:56.236 --> 0:24:01.836
<v Speaker 1>to secure and maintain public respect. He's another one. The

0:24:01.876 --> 0:24:06.156
<v Speaker 1>police must secure the willing cooperation of the public in

0:24:06.236 --> 0:24:09.356
<v Speaker 1>voluntary observance of the law to be able to maintain

0:24:09.916 --> 0:24:14.596
<v Speaker 1>and secure public respect. There's another one. The degree of

0:24:14.676 --> 0:24:19.316
<v Speaker 1>cooperation of the public that can be secured diminishes proportionately

0:24:19.556 --> 0:24:22.196
<v Speaker 1>to the necessity for the use of physical force and

0:24:22.236 --> 0:24:26.796
<v Speaker 1>compulsion in achieving police objectives. And here's the crucial one.

0:24:27.396 --> 0:24:30.676
<v Speaker 1>The police at all times should maintain a relationship with

0:24:30.756 --> 0:24:34.716
<v Speaker 1>the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that

0:24:34.756 --> 0:24:38.116
<v Speaker 1>the police are the public and the public are the police.

0:24:38.796 --> 0:24:38.996
<v Speaker 2>Right.

0:24:40.036 --> 0:24:42.236
<v Speaker 1>What is the word that appears in all of those

0:24:42.236 --> 0:24:49.076
<v Speaker 1>principles as often as police. It's public right, public, public, public.

0:24:49.196 --> 0:24:52.276
<v Speaker 1>The police are the public and the public are the police.

0:24:52.636 --> 0:24:55.116
<v Speaker 1>I would submit to you that that those two sentences

0:24:55.116 --> 0:24:57.996
<v Speaker 1>are one of the most beautiful and essential lines that

0:24:58.036 --> 0:25:02.796
<v Speaker 1>have ever been written about the modern democratic experiment. Now

0:25:03.756 --> 0:25:07.916
<v Speaker 1>where are we today with respect to Peel's principles in America?

0:25:08.236 --> 0:25:10.996
<v Speaker 1>Are we a societ that believes that the people are

0:25:11.036 --> 0:25:15.716
<v Speaker 1>the police and the police are the people? I'm not

0:25:15.796 --> 0:25:18.716
<v Speaker 1>so sure of that. One of the ways, for example,

0:25:18.756 --> 0:25:22.636
<v Speaker 1>that we measure the health and effectiveness of a police

0:25:22.636 --> 0:25:26.556
<v Speaker 1>force is clearance rates. A clearance rate is simply the

0:25:26.876 --> 0:25:30.236
<v Speaker 1>percentage of crimes that are solved by the police, and

0:25:30.276 --> 0:25:33.156
<v Speaker 1>the most important of those, obviously, is the homicide clearance rate.

0:25:34.276 --> 0:25:37.756
<v Speaker 1>And over the last thirty years, the homicide clearance rate

0:25:37.876 --> 0:25:40.996
<v Speaker 1>in this country has been falling, and not by a

0:25:41.036 --> 0:25:43.916
<v Speaker 1>small amount, by a large amount. Thirty years ago it

0:25:43.956 --> 0:25:49.916
<v Speaker 1>was roughly seventy percent. It's now fifty percent. So half

0:25:49.956 --> 0:25:53.796
<v Speaker 1>of all murders committed in the United States go unsolved

0:25:54.196 --> 0:25:56.636
<v Speaker 1>by the police. And by the way, that's an average.

0:25:57.036 --> 0:25:58.956
<v Speaker 1>There are many many places where the clearance rate is

0:25:59.036 --> 0:26:02.316
<v Speaker 1>much lower than that. The clearance rate in Michigan is

0:26:02.396 --> 0:26:07.956
<v Speaker 1>seventeen percent for homicide. In Honolulu it's eighteen percent. It

0:26:07.956 --> 0:26:11.116
<v Speaker 1>also varies by neighborhoo. But if somebody was murdered outside

0:26:11.156 --> 0:26:14.276
<v Speaker 1>of this auditorium here in Tulane, the clearance rate would

0:26:14.276 --> 0:26:16.436
<v Speaker 1>probably be ninety percent, but in the seventh ward it's

0:26:16.476 --> 0:26:20.476
<v Speaker 1>probably I don't know, ten fifteen percent. Right, That is

0:26:20.516 --> 0:26:24.636
<v Speaker 1>a very, very big problem for modern society. In the

0:26:24.756 --> 0:26:31.516
<v Speaker 1>classic formulation of deterrence, deterrence is a function of the certainty, swiftness,

0:26:31.996 --> 0:26:35.556
<v Speaker 1>and severity of punishment. And of those three things, the

0:26:35.596 --> 0:26:39.156
<v Speaker 1>first is the most important. Right, Deterrence is really a

0:26:39.156 --> 0:26:42.036
<v Speaker 1>function of the likelihood of being caught. And if we

0:26:42.076 --> 0:26:44.636
<v Speaker 1>are in a situation where the clearance rates in many

0:26:44.716 --> 0:26:49.316
<v Speaker 1>high crime neighborhoods is less than twenty percent, then that's

0:26:49.356 --> 0:26:50.676
<v Speaker 1>the description of a failed state.

0:26:51.316 --> 0:26:51.556
<v Speaker 2>Right.

0:26:52.236 --> 0:26:55.516
<v Speaker 1>We live in a society now where there are many

0:26:55.716 --> 0:27:01.036
<v Speaker 1>neighborhoods where murderers murder with impunity. Now, why are clearance

0:27:01.116 --> 0:27:04.196
<v Speaker 1>rates falling? It makes no sense that police today are

0:27:04.236 --> 0:27:06.756
<v Speaker 1>better funded, they're better trained than ever before, they have

0:27:06.796 --> 0:27:10.516
<v Speaker 1>more access to technology. There's cameras everywhere. Plus murder rates

0:27:10.516 --> 0:27:12.516
<v Speaker 1>have fallen dramatically over the last thirty years, they have

0:27:12.596 --> 0:27:16.116
<v Speaker 1>less to do. If you watch CSI on television or

0:27:16.196 --> 0:27:18.236
<v Speaker 1>Law and Order, you would think clearance rates would be

0:27:18.276 --> 0:27:22.916
<v Speaker 1>one hundred percent, but they're not. They're low and they're dropping.

0:27:23.676 --> 0:27:26.236
<v Speaker 1>One reason for that is obvious, and that's the rise

0:27:26.276 --> 0:27:29.836
<v Speaker 1>of gun violence. Guns used to be a small percentage

0:27:29.876 --> 0:27:33.676
<v Speaker 1>of homicides. They're now an overwhelming percentage of homicides. And

0:27:33.716 --> 0:27:36.076
<v Speaker 1>a gun crime is a lot harder to solve than

0:27:36.596 --> 0:27:39.436
<v Speaker 1>a knife crime. Right, less physical evidence, the killer can

0:27:39.476 --> 0:27:42.876
<v Speaker 1>be further away. But that's not the real reason. The

0:27:42.916 --> 0:27:47.276
<v Speaker 1>real reason is that the most important factor in solving

0:27:47.276 --> 0:27:51.596
<v Speaker 1>a homicide is the cooperation of the public. You find

0:27:51.636 --> 0:27:54.036
<v Speaker 1>out who pulled the trigger because three people come to

0:27:54.076 --> 0:27:56.916
<v Speaker 1>you and said, I was there, I saw Billy pull

0:27:56.996 --> 0:28:00.436
<v Speaker 1>the trigger. Right. But if those three people don't come forward,

0:28:00.716 --> 0:28:03.476
<v Speaker 1>if they don't trust the police anymore, if they think

0:28:03.516 --> 0:28:06.356
<v Speaker 1>of the police as an occupying force, then you have

0:28:06.396 --> 0:28:12.676
<v Speaker 1>a problem. Remember that those principles from Peel The ability

0:28:12.716 --> 0:28:16.476
<v Speaker 1>of the police to perform their duties is dependent upon

0:28:17.036 --> 0:28:22.996
<v Speaker 1>public approval of police existence, actions, behavior, and the ability

0:28:23.036 --> 0:28:26.916
<v Speaker 1>of the police to secure and maintain public respect. That

0:28:27.196 --> 0:28:29.996
<v Speaker 1>is what we don't have right now. In the most

0:28:30.036 --> 0:28:33.756
<v Speaker 1>recent Gallup poll, only nineteen percent of black adults said

0:28:33.756 --> 0:28:36.716
<v Speaker 1>they were confident they had any confidence or trust in

0:28:36.756 --> 0:28:40.596
<v Speaker 1>the police. The numbers for white Americans are a little

0:28:40.596 --> 0:28:43.316
<v Speaker 1>bit higher, but they are also at historic lows. Right,

0:28:43.756 --> 0:28:46.236
<v Speaker 1>how do you solve a homicide in the community where

0:28:46.276 --> 0:28:50.876
<v Speaker 1>eight out of ten people don't trust you. What Robert

0:28:51.036 --> 0:28:55.196
<v Speaker 1>Peel said two hundred years ago is absolutely correct. The

0:28:55.436 --> 0:28:59.316
<v Speaker 1>police cannot do their job without the support of the public.

0:28:59.996 --> 0:29:04.156
<v Speaker 1>Right now, you might say, well, this collapse in trust

0:29:04.236 --> 0:29:07.396
<v Speaker 1>makes perfect sense. Think about the last ten years. We

0:29:07.436 --> 0:29:12.316
<v Speaker 1>had Ferguson, we had George Floyd, we just had tire

0:29:12.436 --> 0:29:14.916
<v Speaker 1>Nichols On and on. Right, all of these stories of

0:29:15.076 --> 0:29:19.756
<v Speaker 1>kinds of things that would naturally undermine our faith in

0:29:19.916 --> 0:29:24.476
<v Speaker 1>law enforcement. But that still doesn't solve the puzzle, right

0:29:24.596 --> 0:29:27.916
<v Speaker 1>because in every way this kind of problem was worse

0:29:28.516 --> 0:29:31.676
<v Speaker 1>fifty years ago than it is today. Would you rather

0:29:31.716 --> 0:29:35.156
<v Speaker 1>have the police Department of Birmingham, Alabama in nineteen sixty

0:29:35.196 --> 0:29:39.316
<v Speaker 1>three or the Police Department of Birmingham, Alabama today? Would

0:29:39.356 --> 0:29:42.276
<v Speaker 1>you rather have the police Department of Los Angeles in

0:29:42.316 --> 0:29:44.836
<v Speaker 1>nineteen sixty three, when they wouldn't even let black officers

0:29:44.916 --> 0:29:47.916
<v Speaker 1>ride in the same squad cars as white officers than

0:29:47.956 --> 0:29:51.316
<v Speaker 1>the LAPD of today. Now, I mean, I could go on.

0:29:51.436 --> 0:29:55.716
<v Speaker 1>I mean, in Atlanta in nineteen forty eight, they hire

0:29:55.756 --> 0:30:00.156
<v Speaker 1>their first black police officers, group of eight men. They

0:30:00.196 --> 0:30:03.516
<v Speaker 1>call them the YMCA eight. Why because they won't let

0:30:03.596 --> 0:30:07.036
<v Speaker 1>them into the precincts. They make them work out of

0:30:07.116 --> 0:30:14.396
<v Speaker 1>the basement of the colored downtown. Right, and they get

0:30:14.396 --> 0:30:16.196
<v Speaker 1>so much abuse that half of them quit within the

0:30:16.196 --> 0:30:20.196
<v Speaker 1>first year. Abuse from their fellow white police officers. They're

0:30:20.196 --> 0:30:22.316
<v Speaker 1>not allowed to drive squad cars, They're not allowed to

0:30:22.436 --> 0:30:25.956
<v Speaker 1>arrest white people, they're not allowed to patrol white neighborhoods.

0:30:26.596 --> 0:30:29.076
<v Speaker 1>White officers would gang up against them and falsely report

0:30:29.116 --> 0:30:32.476
<v Speaker 1>them for drinking on the job. White officers tried to

0:30:32.596 --> 0:30:35.396
<v Speaker 1>run down a couple of them in the street. One

0:30:35.436 --> 0:30:38.556
<v Speaker 1>white officer in Atlanta put up bounty on the head

0:30:38.596 --> 0:30:40.716
<v Speaker 1>of the black officers, saying he would give two hundred

0:30:40.716 --> 0:30:44.596
<v Speaker 1>dollars to anyone who killed one of those officers. Now,

0:30:45.396 --> 0:30:48.396
<v Speaker 1>those are good reasons not to trust a police department, right,

0:30:48.916 --> 0:30:52.796
<v Speaker 1>really good reasons. Not today, not today, when the Atlanta

0:30:52.836 --> 0:30:56.436
<v Speaker 1>Police Department is world's better and different from that, you

0:30:56.476 --> 0:30:59.556
<v Speaker 1>would have thought there was a crisis in clearance rates

0:30:59.596 --> 0:31:14.276
<v Speaker 1>back then, not now, We'll be right back. You would

0:31:14.276 --> 0:31:16.756
<v Speaker 1>have thought that in every way we would be better

0:31:16.796 --> 0:31:20.596
<v Speaker 1>off today than we were fifty years ago. So what's

0:31:20.596 --> 0:31:21.236
<v Speaker 1>to blame for this?

0:31:21.556 --> 0:31:21.756
<v Speaker 3>Right?

0:31:21.836 --> 0:31:25.276
<v Speaker 1>This is one of the most profound problems facing our society.

0:31:25.636 --> 0:31:28.796
<v Speaker 1>I think that there are many, many important issues, but

0:31:28.836 --> 0:31:31.756
<v Speaker 1>the one I want to talk about is the influence

0:31:32.236 --> 0:31:35.796
<v Speaker 1>of these four narratives. The first problem with the narratives,

0:31:35.796 --> 0:31:38.276
<v Speaker 1>I think is obvious, and that is that it is

0:31:38.316 --> 0:31:41.956
<v Speaker 1>a dangerous thing to over narrativize a group of people.

0:31:42.436 --> 0:31:45.716
<v Speaker 1>The obvious analogy is the way the popular culture treated

0:31:45.756 --> 0:31:48.636
<v Speaker 1>African Americans in the movies in the first half of

0:31:48.676 --> 0:31:51.956
<v Speaker 1>the twentieth century. There were only three categories of black

0:31:51.996 --> 0:31:55.396
<v Speaker 1>people in the movies in that period. There was the Mammy,

0:31:55.556 --> 0:31:59.196
<v Speaker 1>remember Gone with the Wind, the role played by Hattie McDaniel,

0:31:59.636 --> 0:32:03.156
<v Speaker 1>And that is the big, warm, sassy surrogate mother who

0:32:03.236 --> 0:32:07.596
<v Speaker 1>puts her mistress's children ahead even of her own children,

0:32:08.036 --> 0:32:10.516
<v Speaker 1>and who keeps her mische in line, you know, with

0:32:10.636 --> 0:32:11.356
<v Speaker 1>her straight talk.

0:32:11.476 --> 0:32:11.636
<v Speaker 3>Right.

0:32:11.716 --> 0:32:15.596
<v Speaker 1>That's stereotype number one. Second stereotype was the sambo. What

0:32:15.716 --> 0:32:21.356
<v Speaker 1>is the sambo? The sambo is the childlike passive, deeply

0:32:21.476 --> 0:32:25.476
<v Speaker 1>loyal man servant, right, the uncle Tom. And if you

0:32:25.556 --> 0:32:29.116
<v Speaker 1>were a black actor or actress in Hollywood in the

0:32:29.156 --> 0:32:32.556
<v Speaker 1>first forty years of the twentieth century, those are the

0:32:32.556 --> 0:32:34.996
<v Speaker 1>two roles that were available to you. And the third

0:32:35.076 --> 0:32:41.796
<v Speaker 1>group is the shiftless, devious, untrustworthy, lazy, subversive. Right. The

0:32:41.836 --> 0:32:45.396
<v Speaker 1>screenwriters and the novelists of America put all black people

0:32:45.396 --> 0:32:49.356
<v Speaker 1>into one of those three categories for one hundred years.

0:32:50.196 --> 0:32:53.156
<v Speaker 1>Why because they couldn't be bothered to explore the idea

0:32:53.516 --> 0:32:56.636
<v Speaker 1>that there was as much variety and beauty and complexity

0:32:56.676 --> 0:32:59.356
<v Speaker 1>in black people as they were in white people. A

0:32:59.436 --> 0:33:04.036
<v Speaker 1>narrative is a stereotype. It's a kind of shorthand used

0:33:04.076 --> 0:33:09.476
<v Speaker 1>by writers. And these stereotypes aren't harmless. There's a famous

0:33:09.476 --> 0:33:12.516
<v Speaker 1>study done in the nineteen thirties of ethnic stereotypes where

0:33:12.516 --> 0:33:16.436
<v Speaker 1>a group of psychologists asked thousands of Americans to describe

0:33:16.476 --> 0:33:19.036
<v Speaker 1>what they felt black people were like, and the three

0:33:19.116 --> 0:33:23.716
<v Speaker 1>most popular adjectives used by white people to describe black

0:33:23.716 --> 0:33:28.196
<v Speaker 1>people were superstitious, happy, go lucky, and lazy. And the

0:33:28.316 --> 0:33:30.596
<v Speaker 1>kicko was that most of the white people they talked

0:33:30.636 --> 0:33:34.076
<v Speaker 1>to for that survey didn't know any black people. So

0:33:34.156 --> 0:33:36.396
<v Speaker 1>where do they get those ideas? They got them from

0:33:36.476 --> 0:33:40.956
<v Speaker 1>the movies. Right. So the stereotypes that are put forth

0:33:41.076 --> 0:33:45.876
<v Speaker 1>in popular culture matter. They are the raw material that

0:33:45.916 --> 0:33:49.756
<v Speaker 1>people use to form their attitudes and perspectives about the

0:33:49.796 --> 0:33:52.836
<v Speaker 1>rest of the world. And I really worry that police

0:33:52.916 --> 0:33:56.156
<v Speaker 1>narratives are doing the same thing. They are doing an

0:33:56.196 --> 0:34:00.196
<v Speaker 1>injustice to our understanding of the police. You know, Derek

0:34:00.236 --> 0:34:04.036
<v Speaker 1>Schavan murders George Floyd, and thousands of people take to

0:34:04.076 --> 0:34:07.796
<v Speaker 1>the streets and say, let's defund the police. Right. The

0:34:07.836 --> 0:34:14.276
<v Speaker 1>George Floyd case activated the Southern narrative law enforcement as

0:34:14.356 --> 0:34:17.876
<v Speaker 1>impossibly corrupt and malicious. Our only choice is to shut

0:34:17.916 --> 0:34:21.236
<v Speaker 1>it down. But there's seven hundred thousand police officers in

0:34:21.276 --> 0:34:24.636
<v Speaker 1>this country. How do you possibly label the entire group

0:34:24.716 --> 0:34:27.996
<v Speaker 1>based on the behavior of a small number. You know,

0:34:28.036 --> 0:34:32.276
<v Speaker 1>after the Ruddy King beating thirty years ago that led

0:34:32.276 --> 0:34:36.316
<v Speaker 1>to the Los Angeles Riots, the Los Angeles Police Department

0:34:36.396 --> 0:34:39.556
<v Speaker 1>was thrown into chaos, and they were accused of racial

0:34:39.596 --> 0:34:42.716
<v Speaker 1>bias and insensitivity and turning a blind eyed to misconduct.

0:34:43.196 --> 0:34:45.236
<v Speaker 1>And they had once, of course been the embodiment of

0:34:45.276 --> 0:34:49.036
<v Speaker 1>the Eastern Dragnet was a celebration of the perfection and

0:34:49.076 --> 0:34:51.916
<v Speaker 1>professionalism of the LAPD, and now they were the Southern.

0:34:52.036 --> 0:34:54.916
<v Speaker 1>They were cast as corrupt and malicious, and there was

0:34:54.956 --> 0:34:58.596
<v Speaker 1>a massive investigation that was launched. And what the investigation

0:34:58.756 --> 0:35:03.716
<v Speaker 1>found was that of the eighty five hundred police officers

0:35:03.756 --> 0:35:07.476
<v Speaker 1>in the LAPD, one hundred and eighty three had been

0:35:07.956 --> 0:35:12.116
<v Speaker 1>the a subject of four or more excessive force complaints

0:35:12.116 --> 0:35:15.076
<v Speaker 1>over in the period between nineteen eighty six and nineteen

0:35:15.156 --> 0:35:18.916
<v Speaker 1>ninety Right, so one hundred and eighty three out of

0:35:18.996 --> 0:35:21.916
<v Speaker 1>eighty five hundred forty four of those one hundred and

0:35:21.916 --> 0:35:25.316
<v Speaker 1>eighty three had six or more complaints and sixteen had

0:35:25.396 --> 0:35:29.396
<v Speaker 1>eight or more complaints. The investigation found that the LAPD,

0:35:29.436 --> 0:35:32.636
<v Speaker 1>in other words, had a very small core of really

0:35:32.676 --> 0:35:35.556
<v Speaker 1>bad apples and did a really bad job of identifying

0:35:35.556 --> 0:35:38.396
<v Speaker 1>their bad apples and getting rid of them. That is

0:35:38.516 --> 0:35:42.796
<v Speaker 1>not an Eastern where everyone is perfect. There was one

0:35:42.796 --> 0:35:46.996
<v Speaker 1>officer who had more than sixteen excessive force complaints in

0:35:47.036 --> 0:35:49.756
<v Speaker 1>the previous four years and still had his job. Right,

0:35:49.796 --> 0:35:54.036
<v Speaker 1>that's not dragnet. That's something very different. That's problem. But

0:35:54.076 --> 0:35:56.076
<v Speaker 1>at the same time, that is not the description of

0:35:56.076 --> 0:35:59.356
<v Speaker 1>a Southern It's not a description of an entire department.

0:35:59.796 --> 0:36:05.396
<v Speaker 1>That is malicious and malignant. Right, you cannot call a

0:36:05.396 --> 0:36:10.116
<v Speaker 1>department of eighty five hundred people corrupt and malignant because

0:36:10.156 --> 0:36:13.316
<v Speaker 1>it has forty four really bad apples. So our police

0:36:13.396 --> 0:36:17.436
<v Speaker 1>narratives have made us sloppy. They've made it really hard

0:36:17.476 --> 0:36:20.356
<v Speaker 1>for us to understand the nature of the problem we're facing.

0:36:20.876 --> 0:36:24.276
<v Speaker 1>They blur over the subtleties. You know, you have one

0:36:24.356 --> 0:36:27.756
<v Speaker 1>side saying it's all rotten, and the other watching Dragnet

0:36:27.836 --> 0:36:31.116
<v Speaker 1>and reading Ed McBain and saying, these are noble, courageous

0:36:31.116 --> 0:36:34.316
<v Speaker 1>men doing an impossible job against overwhelming odds. They deserve

0:36:34.316 --> 0:36:38.316
<v Speaker 1>our unqualified to support. Right that neither of those narratives

0:36:38.316 --> 0:36:42.236
<v Speaker 1>are true. How can the people be the police and

0:36:42.276 --> 0:36:45.116
<v Speaker 1>the police be the people when the people don't understand

0:36:45.156 --> 0:36:50.556
<v Speaker 1>who the police are. Problem number one. We don't make

0:36:50.596 --> 0:36:53.476
<v Speaker 1>this mistake with teachers. We don't make it with truck drivers.

0:36:53.876 --> 0:36:55.996
<v Speaker 1>We don't make with nurses. When we hear that the

0:36:56.036 --> 0:36:58.836
<v Speaker 1>teacher is a bad teacher whose students don't learn anything,

0:36:59.156 --> 0:37:03.876
<v Speaker 1>we don't say, oh, man, teaching is broken. Let's defund teaching. Right,

0:37:03.996 --> 0:37:06.716
<v Speaker 1>that's a We just say that's a bad teacher who

0:37:06.756 --> 0:37:08.916
<v Speaker 1>should be replaced, and let's do a better job of

0:37:09.196 --> 0:37:11.916
<v Speaker 1>training and selected them next time. And the reason we're

0:37:11.956 --> 0:37:14.716
<v Speaker 1>free to do that is that none has come along

0:37:15.076 --> 0:37:19.916
<v Speaker 1>and constructed a magical teacher genre that allows us to

0:37:19.916 --> 0:37:26.836
<v Speaker 1>assign every teacher to one of four reductive narrative categories. Second,

0:37:27.396 --> 0:37:29.916
<v Speaker 1>and a more important point, is that I think we

0:37:29.996 --> 0:37:33.276
<v Speaker 1>need to consider what these narratives do to those within

0:37:33.836 --> 0:37:38.636
<v Speaker 1>the profession, because how the police think of themselves is

0:37:38.676 --> 0:37:41.356
<v Speaker 1>also shaped by these theories. You know, it's often been

0:37:41.396 --> 0:37:44.196
<v Speaker 1>said that the Godfather. I'm sure you've heard this, the

0:37:44.236 --> 0:37:47.996
<v Speaker 1>Godfather started out being about the mob, but before long

0:37:48.116 --> 0:37:51.996
<v Speaker 1>the mob was about being like the Godfather. Right, they

0:37:52.036 --> 0:37:57.236
<v Speaker 1>all started pretending they were Marlon Brando or Cultural narratives

0:37:57.276 --> 0:38:01.076
<v Speaker 1>about groups don't just reflect those groups, they also start

0:38:01.116 --> 0:38:04.276
<v Speaker 1>to define those groups. So the police also watched law

0:38:04.276 --> 0:38:07.316
<v Speaker 1>in Order, Right, They also read crime novels. And what

0:38:07.356 --> 0:38:10.076
<v Speaker 1>do they learn from them? They learned that law enforcement

0:38:10.276 --> 0:38:14.396
<v Speaker 1>is about them. It's the story of their own identity

0:38:14.476 --> 0:38:17.956
<v Speaker 1>and skill. Are they any good? Are they honest? Are

0:38:17.956 --> 0:38:21.356
<v Speaker 1>they as dogged and skilled and fundamental and as the

0:38:21.356 --> 0:38:25.036
<v Speaker 1>police of Ed McBain's eighty seventh Precinct, or as hapless

0:38:25.076 --> 0:38:29.916
<v Speaker 1>as Colonel Clink and sergeant Schultz. The great crime novelist

0:38:29.956 --> 0:38:33.556
<v Speaker 1>Joseph Wambach, who was an LAPD officer for many years,

0:38:34.636 --> 0:38:37.636
<v Speaker 1>one said that the modern police novel was not about

0:38:37.716 --> 0:38:40.996
<v Speaker 1>the man working the case, but the case working the man,

0:38:41.916 --> 0:38:44.636
<v Speaker 1>meaning that the innovation of police fiction in the modern

0:38:44.676 --> 0:38:48.716
<v Speaker 1>era was to turn the spotlight on what the job

0:38:48.796 --> 0:38:52.396
<v Speaker 1>of maintaining law and order did to the psychology and

0:38:52.476 --> 0:38:55.316
<v Speaker 1>peace of mind and character of the man tasked with

0:38:55.796 --> 0:39:00.476
<v Speaker 1>maintaining law order. And I think that's exactly what the

0:39:00.516 --> 0:39:04.476
<v Speaker 1>four narratives are doing. They are simply giving different answers

0:39:04.476 --> 0:39:08.236
<v Speaker 1>to that question of who the police officer is. In

0:39:08.276 --> 0:39:11.476
<v Speaker 1>the Western it's it's just the ordinary man must summon

0:39:11.676 --> 0:39:14.356
<v Speaker 1>his own courage to step into the breach. In the Northern,

0:39:14.516 --> 0:39:16.516
<v Speaker 1>the officer is not up to the task. In a

0:39:16.636 --> 0:39:19.996
<v Speaker 1>Southern the officer is corrupted by his responsibilities. And in

0:39:20.036 --> 0:39:25.916
<v Speaker 1>the Eastern, our hero rises magnificently to the challenge. Police fiction,

0:39:26.196 --> 0:39:30.476
<v Speaker 1>in all of those forms is an exercise in narcissism.

0:39:30.716 --> 0:39:33.596
<v Speaker 1>These are not novels and shows about solving crimes. There

0:39:33.636 --> 0:39:37.516
<v Speaker 1>shows about crime solvers. And where is the public in

0:39:37.596 --> 0:39:41.276
<v Speaker 1>that right? Where If Robert Peel were alive today, he

0:39:41.276 --> 0:39:43.316
<v Speaker 1>would look around him, and he would say, we have

0:39:43.436 --> 0:39:47.476
<v Speaker 1>given police officers a picture of their profession that leaves

0:39:47.476 --> 0:39:51.316
<v Speaker 1>out the most important element in their success, the people

0:39:51.396 --> 0:39:56.396
<v Speaker 1>whose respect and support make police work possible. Remember that

0:39:56.996 --> 0:39:59.956
<v Speaker 1>Peel principle. The ability of the police to perform their

0:40:00.036 --> 0:40:06.996
<v Speaker 1>duties is dependent on public approval of police existence. I

0:40:07.156 --> 0:40:10.756
<v Speaker 1>defy you to find they're in the world of crime

0:40:10.796 --> 0:40:15.596
<v Speaker 1>fiction a representation of that idea. It doesn't exist. That's

0:40:15.636 --> 0:40:19.516
<v Speaker 1>not the reason people write fiction police fiction, and it's

0:40:19.516 --> 0:40:23.276
<v Speaker 1>not the reason why readers like me love please fiction.

0:40:25.156 --> 0:40:28.156
<v Speaker 1>So what is the solution? Well, it breaks my heart

0:40:28.196 --> 0:40:31.156
<v Speaker 1>to say this, but it is time for us to

0:40:31.196 --> 0:40:36.316
<v Speaker 1>turn our backs on a spine novel right, No more enough.

0:40:36.676 --> 0:40:40.436
<v Speaker 1>It's been one hundred years or more and it has

0:40:40.796 --> 0:40:45.196
<v Speaker 1>left us worse off than we started. I'm sure all

0:40:45.196 --> 0:40:49.276
<v Speaker 1>of you. I've been watching the Governor Florida on his

0:40:49.356 --> 0:40:53.956
<v Speaker 1>current cultural cleansing campaign, and all I have to say is,

0:40:54.876 --> 0:40:58.316
<v Speaker 1>where is Ron DeSantis when we need him? He's so

0:40:58.436 --> 0:41:02.716
<v Speaker 1>busy banning Jody Picot novels that he's missed the real culprit,

0:41:02.956 --> 0:41:09.076
<v Speaker 1>which is the child John Grisham, Ed McBain and our

0:41:09.276 --> 0:41:13.716
<v Speaker 1>Conan Doyle let us go to the Hudson News at

0:41:13.716 --> 0:41:17.756
<v Speaker 1>the Jacksonville Airport, take all of those paperbacks off the wall,

0:41:18.716 --> 0:41:21.356
<v Speaker 1>put them in a big pile in front of the

0:41:21.396 --> 0:41:26.716
<v Speaker 1>State House in Tallahassee, and light a match. Thank you.

0:41:40.676 --> 0:41:45.316
<v Speaker 1>I have time for a few questions. I think anyone

0:41:45.356 --> 0:41:46.596
<v Speaker 1>wants to come forward.

0:41:49.756 --> 0:41:53.316
<v Speaker 3>Hi, I just wanted to ask if, in this new

0:41:53.356 --> 0:41:58.516
<v Speaker 3>conclusion that it's time to move past the mystery novel,

0:41:58.556 --> 0:42:01.276
<v Speaker 3>the spy novel. Do you think there's a room for

0:42:01.356 --> 0:42:04.996
<v Speaker 3>something more nuanced, one that has evolved maybe with our

0:42:05.116 --> 0:42:08.596
<v Speaker 3>understanding and our ability to capture information. You know, certainly

0:42:08.676 --> 0:42:12.516
<v Speaker 3>when these the genre was born, we did not have

0:42:12.636 --> 0:42:15.196
<v Speaker 3>cell phones, we didn't have social media, and we certainly

0:42:15.636 --> 0:42:18.756
<v Speaker 3>didn't have instant news. And these have all drastically changed

0:42:18.756 --> 0:42:21.716
<v Speaker 3>the culture around policing and at least in the US.

0:42:22.276 --> 0:42:24.996
<v Speaker 3>Do you think there's a way for the genre to

0:42:25.076 --> 0:42:29.796
<v Speaker 3>move on and be more incorporative of these elements and

0:42:29.956 --> 0:42:32.716
<v Speaker 3>more reflective of the way policing actually is.

0:42:33.556 --> 0:42:37.756
<v Speaker 1>I do think that. I mean, basically, what has happened

0:42:37.796 --> 0:42:40.876
<v Speaker 1>I think is if we have exhausted the possibilities of

0:42:40.916 --> 0:42:45.916
<v Speaker 1>the form and it's time for reinvention. And I think

0:42:45.916 --> 0:42:48.396
<v Speaker 1>as well, that people who write this kind of fiction

0:42:48.516 --> 0:42:53.516
<v Speaker 1>need to understand what their social obligations are. That what

0:42:53.596 --> 0:42:55.356
<v Speaker 1>has happened, I think is that there's a generation. I

0:42:55.396 --> 0:42:57.236
<v Speaker 1>think this is more true in Hollywood than it is

0:42:57.716 --> 0:43:01.396
<v Speaker 1>in the world of fiction, that people have really dodged

0:43:01.396 --> 0:43:04.276
<v Speaker 1>the question of what the impact of their writing is.

0:43:04.796 --> 0:43:07.036
<v Speaker 1>And you make a movie, you make a really bad

0:43:07.716 --> 0:43:10.556
<v Speaker 1>cop movie, and you just shrug and say it's entertainment,

0:43:10.956 --> 0:43:13.596
<v Speaker 1>and you forget that actually know, what you are providing

0:43:13.716 --> 0:43:17.476
<v Speaker 1>is the cultural raw material for the way we make

0:43:17.516 --> 0:43:19.756
<v Speaker 1>sense of the world. And if you just mail it

0:43:19.796 --> 0:43:23.476
<v Speaker 1>in and just stick to some formula that is no

0:43:23.556 --> 0:43:25.676
<v Speaker 1>longer relevant to the world we live in, you're doing

0:43:26.036 --> 0:43:29.516
<v Speaker 1>society a disservice. So yes, I do think it is

0:43:29.596 --> 0:43:31.476
<v Speaker 1>possible to reinvent it, but I think it's going to

0:43:31.516 --> 0:43:35.396
<v Speaker 1>require a change of heart within the creative community.

0:43:35.876 --> 0:43:36.276
<v Speaker 3>Thank you.

0:43:39.116 --> 0:43:41.356
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so hi, my name is Isabella. First of all, thank

0:43:41.356 --> 0:43:43.556
<v Speaker 2>you so much for talking. I wanted to ask a

0:43:43.556 --> 0:43:46.076
<v Speaker 2>little bit about kind of going along that same crime

0:43:46.076 --> 0:43:49.716
<v Speaker 2>show narrative, about how much police officers are really able

0:43:49.716 --> 0:43:52.156
<v Speaker 2>to do and how that kind of changes our public

0:43:52.236 --> 0:43:54.756
<v Speaker 2>view and our public narrative. I'm a huge fan of

0:43:54.756 --> 0:43:57.156
<v Speaker 2>Brooklyn nine nine knives out all that stuff, and we

0:43:57.196 --> 0:44:00.716
<v Speaker 2>see police officers and detectives going in asking questions, breaking

0:44:00.756 --> 0:44:03.596
<v Speaker 2>into things, all without warrants and everything like that. Do

0:44:03.676 --> 0:44:05.916
<v Speaker 2>you think that changes the way we view police officers

0:44:05.956 --> 0:44:07.836
<v Speaker 2>and how incompetent we may see them to be.

0:44:08.436 --> 0:44:12.916
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So it's a really interesting point, the unreality of

0:44:14.116 --> 0:44:18.116
<v Speaker 1>a lot of police fiction. Does it contributes to our

0:44:18.116 --> 0:44:23.036
<v Speaker 1>disillusionment because we have this impression from the way that

0:44:23.236 --> 0:44:28.036
<v Speaker 1>police work is represented in fiction that the police officer

0:44:28.476 --> 0:44:30.716
<v Speaker 1>has an awful lot more agency than he or she

0:44:30.796 --> 0:44:34.956
<v Speaker 1>actually does in real life. Right, there are, for good reasons,

0:44:34.996 --> 0:44:38.356
<v Speaker 1>significant constraints on what they are able to do, and

0:44:38.556 --> 0:44:40.876
<v Speaker 1>of course it doesn't make for a good story. So

0:44:41.316 --> 0:44:43.556
<v Speaker 1>when we compare the there's a whole line of psychology

0:44:43.596 --> 0:44:48.036
<v Speaker 1>on what's called the CSI effect in juries that juries

0:44:48.076 --> 0:44:54.236
<v Speaker 1>are now more likely to acquit defendants because the level

0:44:54.276 --> 0:44:57.076
<v Speaker 1>of evidence presented in the trial does not match up

0:44:57.076 --> 0:44:59.396
<v Speaker 1>with the level of evidence they're used to seeing in

0:44:59.436 --> 0:45:03.516
<v Speaker 1>criminal trials from CSI. And that's a good example of

0:45:03.596 --> 0:45:07.716
<v Speaker 1>how like that's there's no surer path to distrust and

0:45:07.756 --> 0:45:11.676
<v Speaker 1>disillusionment if the standard of police work is described over

0:45:11.716 --> 0:45:14.436
<v Speaker 1>here in fiction and in real life it's over here,

0:45:14.916 --> 0:45:20.396
<v Speaker 1>So I think that that is a very accurate observation.

0:45:21.156 --> 0:45:21.516
<v Speaker 2>Thank you.

0:45:22.636 --> 0:45:24.396
<v Speaker 1>I think I've run out of time, so thank you

0:45:24.476 --> 0:45:39.596
<v Speaker 1>all very much. This episode of Revisionist History was produced

0:45:39.596 --> 0:45:43.036
<v Speaker 1>by Kiara Powell with Ben Nadapph Haffrey, and Jacob Smith.

0:45:43.636 --> 0:45:47.036
<v Speaker 1>Our showrunner is Peter Clowney. Original scoring by Luis Garra,

0:45:47.476 --> 0:45:52.636
<v Speaker 1>mastering by Lawn Williams, and engineering by Nina Lawrence. Thank

0:45:52.676 --> 0:45:55.796
<v Speaker 1>you to everyone at the New Orleans Book Festival, including

0:45:55.956 --> 0:46:00.076
<v Speaker 1>Lindsay Phillips and Amy Bradshaw. If you haven't signed up

0:46:00.116 --> 0:46:03.436
<v Speaker 1>yet for Pushkin Plus, now is the time. We're about

0:46:03.436 --> 0:46:06.596
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0:46:06.956 --> 0:46:09.956
<v Speaker 1>where we go down all kinds of strangebit holes about

0:46:09.956 --> 0:46:13.716
<v Speaker 1>our national obsession. It's going to drop August thirty first

0:46:14.276 --> 0:46:17.676
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<v Speaker 1>add free. Everyone else gets the first episode and then

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0:46:24.636 --> 0:46:28.196
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0:46:28.996 --> 0:46:32.316
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0:46:32.956 --> 0:46:34.436
<v Speaker 1>I'm Mountain Bubble