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Speaker 1: Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeartRadio. Good Morning,

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Speaker 1: This is Laura. Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast. Today's

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Speaker 1: episode is going to be a longer one part of

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Speaker 1: the series where I interview fascinating people about how they

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Speaker 1: take their days from great to awesome and any advice

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Speaker 1: they have for the rest of us.

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Speaker 2: So today I.

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Speaker 1: Am delighted to welcome Eric Fisher to Before Breakfast. Eric

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Speaker 1: is the host of the long running productivity podcast Beyond

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Speaker 1: the to Do List. So Eric, welcome to the show.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for having me. I'm glad to be here.

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Speaker 1: Why don't you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, gosh, I've been heavily involved in online marketing

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Speaker 2: and social media and oblously podcasting, consulting and working in

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Speaker 2: all of that for a very long time. But the

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Speaker 2: thing I think most people would know me for is

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Speaker 2: my podcast that's based on productivity, Beyond the Today List,

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Speaker 2: which is hitting about six hundred episodes somewhere here, and

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Speaker 2: I've been doing it for thirteen years, talking with people

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Speaker 2: like yourself, as well as many other experts in the field,

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Speaker 2: as well as fringe people that you know you wouldn't

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Speaker 2: normally think of how to get the most out of

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Speaker 2: your day, but do it in a I don't know,

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Speaker 2: non hustle culture kind of a way. I guess.

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Speaker 1: So, how did you get started in this productivity world?

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Speaker 1: I don't have a good origin story, but maybe you do.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think I always needed it. I definitely

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Speaker 2: have ADHD. I got diagnosed years ago and that was

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Speaker 2: no surprise to me. Then I actually got rediagnosed recently,

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Speaker 2: and I'm kind of starting a new journey there in

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Speaker 2: terms of, you know, reacclimating as an adult with that.

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Speaker 2: But I was the one who always had a little

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Speaker 2: you know, notebook, flip open pad of paper and a pencil,

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Speaker 2: just writing ideas and capturing didn't really think of that

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Speaker 2: as productivity per se. But once, you know, early two

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Speaker 2: thousands through two thousand and five, somewhere in there, David

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Speaker 2: Allen's book Getting Things Done came out, and the Internet

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Speaker 2: and I was, you know, I was doing a lot

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Speaker 2: of sitting in a cubicle data entry time, and then

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Speaker 2: I would get done faster than other people that were

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Speaker 2: doing the same job. And so I'd surf the web

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Speaker 2: and I would find podcasts when they came out. But

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Speaker 2: also just different sites like Merlin Mann and a few

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Speaker 2: other things, and started just, oh my gosh, I love

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Speaker 2: this stuff, like this is basically it's self management. It's

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Speaker 2: you know, it's leadership, but leadership of yourself and of

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Speaker 2: course others. But that's where I started to realize, oh, so,

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Speaker 2: the way that I can kind of cope, or I

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Speaker 2: guess a better term would be manage as well as

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Speaker 2: even exceed and thrive with ADHD is to have productivity

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Speaker 2: systems in place. And that's where I started to cobble

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Speaker 2: together scaffolding and structures and workflows, and then married that

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Speaker 2: with podcasting. Once I had started getting into that and

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Speaker 2: doing that and started the show around, I'd been on

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Speaker 2: other shows and co hosts things. But summer of twenty twelve,

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Speaker 2: so now it's been thirteen years.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you have been podcasting for a long time. I

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Speaker 1: guess people really were podcasting in twenty twelve.

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Speaker 2: It was early, but again twenty years ago at the

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Speaker 2: time of this recording. Right now, somewhere in the June

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Speaker 2: July month was months was when Steve Jobs gets on

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Speaker 2: stage and announces we've added podcasting to iTunes, and I'm like,

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Speaker 2: I don't know what that is, and then there's an

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Speaker 2: update sitting there at that data entry computer, and I'm like,

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Speaker 2: all right, bio break, coffee, reset, sit down, go to

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Speaker 2: plug in my headphones and listen to music again and

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Speaker 2: start typing. And I see this tab over there, and

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Speaker 2: I'm like podcast, what is that clicked in? And I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 2: this is like TVO for radio for people that remember

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Speaker 2: what TVO is. I can pause and unpause these things

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Speaker 2: that aren't just music. I can be entertained as well

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Speaker 2: as educated and learn while I'm sitting here. This is

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Speaker 2: is breaking my brain right now.

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Speaker 1: It's funny to think about the iPod giving its name

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Speaker 1: to podcasting since we moved on from iPods a while ago. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: You've interviewed so many people and shared so many tips

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Speaker 1: on your show over the years. I wonder what some

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Speaker 1: of your favorite ones are, like, the ones that you

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Speaker 1: actually use in your daily life.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. One of the biggest ones for me was just

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Speaker 2: because it's easy when we're staring at screens all day

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Speaker 2: and then have other screens nearby, to be distracted constantly.

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Speaker 2: And one of the cool things was kind of treating

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Speaker 2: those distractions in an, let's say, meditational kind of approach.

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Speaker 2: And what I mean by that is having an analog system,

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Speaker 2: a panter pencil and like a legal pad sitting there

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Speaker 2: that while I'm sitting and doing and focusing, like I'm

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Speaker 2: talking to you, and if a thought pops into my head,

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Speaker 2: slide that over, acknowledge the thought, write it down, and

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Speaker 2: then slide it away. And notice I'm not saying grab

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Speaker 2: the phone or grab you know, open another window, or

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Speaker 2: you know, pick up a tablet. It's analogue to you.

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Speaker 2: You're shifting it and in in your you know, workfold brain.

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Speaker 2: It's not adding more digital on top of digital, stacking things.

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Speaker 2: And what it does is it lets you acknowledge the thought,

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Speaker 2: kind of like meditation, accept the thought, and then push

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Speaker 2: it back away. And those of us who've been who

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Speaker 2: are parents, or have been parents of small children, know

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Speaker 2: that this is like treating your inner brain like a toddler.

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Speaker 2: It's it's it's not saying no, it's saying not right now.

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Speaker 2: And and what happens is is those distractions. And this

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Speaker 2: is how I've found it to work, is that the

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Speaker 2: more that I allow myself to acknowledge the thought, instead

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Speaker 2: of fighting against the thought like you'd say no, no, no,

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Speaker 2: not now to a toddler instead just say in a

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Speaker 2: moment or when this time comes, or you know, here's

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Speaker 2: what you know, so acknowledge, treat it with fairness and

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Speaker 2: kindness and not necessarily judgment, and then let it go away.

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Speaker 2: And you know, sometimes you might have great ideas during

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Speaker 2: that time, but you've dedicated that calendar time to a

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Speaker 2: certain task. You're on a call, you're in a meeting,

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Speaker 2: or you're in a meeting with yourself, you're doing a thing.

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Speaker 2: But then after that, by again having a little calendar break,

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Speaker 2: definitely not jimmy your calendar so full that you've got

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Speaker 2: no buffer time in between things. You can use that

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Speaker 2: buffer time to one take a break, but two take

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Speaker 2: a look at that notebook triage it is there anything

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Speaker 2: in here that popped up in my brain panicwise from

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Speaker 2: during that work session that I need to address now

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Speaker 2: or where can I park those things later? And just

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Speaker 2: by addressing that that meditational calm kind of way instead

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Speaker 2: of oh my gosh, I just remembered, like there's an

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Speaker 2: emergency thing, Well, you can take care of that in

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Speaker 2: twenty minutes when you finish the thing, you already can

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Speaker 2: made a commitment.

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Speaker 1: To the later list as then I'll get to it later.

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Speaker 2: Yes, love it.

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Speaker 1: I love that tip. Well, We're going to take a

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Speaker 1: short ad break and then I will be back with

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Speaker 1: more from Eric Fisher. Well, I am back talking with

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Speaker 1: Eric Fisher, host of the Beyond the to do List podcast.

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Speaker 1: He was just sharing the idea of writing down things

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Speaker 1: in order to make yourself less distracted. I wonder if

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Speaker 1: you have some other tips have stuck with you.

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Speaker 2: This one is when I'm trying to actually make a

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Speaker 2: habit right now. It came out of the idea that again,

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Speaker 2: and it kind of flows with the one I just

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Speaker 2: talked about, which is, you know, our our perception of

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Speaker 2: time and our hurried brain that always feels like it's

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Speaker 2: working off of a sugar high instead of consistent, you know, reasoned,

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Speaker 2: measured activity. And what I do with this is basically

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Speaker 2: first thing in the morning. And you can this can

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Speaker 2: take whatever form you know in cert your form of

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Speaker 2: what this is for you, But for me, it's first

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Speaker 2: thing in the morning. The dog wants to walk, well,

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Speaker 2: they both do, but I only take one because only

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Speaker 2: one of them likes me. So we go out and

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Speaker 2: I put no headphones in, I don't put on them.

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Speaker 2: I leave the phone at home, I don't take anything

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Speaker 2: with me but the dog and we walk and then

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Speaker 2: my brain. Yeah, it does kind of the thing where

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Speaker 2: it's like remembering, oh, what am I doing today? Things

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Speaker 2: like that, But I try not to think about anything.

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Speaker 2: I just kind of let my mind wander. In other words,

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Speaker 2: I'm letting my mind breathe. I'm warming up, not just

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Speaker 2: my body physically, which does play into the mental and

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Speaker 2: emotional and everything, but letting my brain acclimate to the day.

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Speaker 2: I'm waking up and sometimes actually, and honestly, some people

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Speaker 2: are like, you're crazy. Take coffee with you if you

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Speaker 2: need to. I don't. I'll do that after I get back.

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Speaker 2: It's kind of a reward, But it's that allowing of

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Speaker 2: that time where you're not in I am being very intentional,

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Speaker 2: but I am not intentionally doing any work. Now that's

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Speaker 2: not to say that our subconscious is doing stuff and

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Speaker 2: needs to, but I've just found that that's one great

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Speaker 2: way to set the tone for the day. First thing,

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Speaker 2: instead of screw you know, scanning and scrolling for fires

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Speaker 2: that inevitably most of the time aren't really even there.

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Speaker 2: Do you remember, I mean we most most mornings were

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Speaker 2: waking up or like, is there anything that's like calling

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Speaker 2: to my attention? First thing, it should be what you want,

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Speaker 2: not what others want. Well, this is a way of

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Speaker 2: kind of setting that tone for the day. And again,

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Speaker 2: you're not picking up a device and scrolling over the

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Speaker 2: never ending buffet that is always there of information that

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Speaker 2: you could get. There's there's never we're never at a

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Speaker 2: lack for somebody else who's posted something, news that has

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Speaker 2: come out, et cetera, et cetera. That's always there. Take

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Speaker 2: the time time before you even take a look at that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we are big fans of morning routines on this show.

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Speaker 1: Do you have anything else you do as part of

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Speaker 1: your morning routine beyond walking your dog?

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Speaker 2: So after that and after having you know that breathing brain,

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Speaker 2: breathing time, what I will do is I will go

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Speaker 2: over the list that I have for myself for the day.

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Speaker 2: I check the calendar, I check my to do list.

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Speaker 2: And what I kind of do actually before the day

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Speaker 2: before is, you know, hand off the baton to my

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Speaker 2: future self. I will close loops. I will leave loops

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Speaker 2: in places where it's possible for me to pick. Like

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Speaker 2: in other words, this is where you start on this project.

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Speaker 2: Like I will almost be super explicit about saying, this

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Speaker 2: is where you left off, this is the next thing

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Speaker 2: you need to do so that next morning me doesn't

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Speaker 2: need to think about it at all. The baton is

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Speaker 2: being passed because, I mean, that's one of we know

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Speaker 2: this from studying racing. One of the biggest things is

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Speaker 2: that baton toss. You screw that up and you lose

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Speaker 2: like so much time and the other team passes you.

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Speaker 2: Now this is a you know, a competition with yourself.

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Speaker 1: But still you've mentioned that one of your big ideas

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Speaker 1: these days is peaceful productivity.

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Speaker 2: What is that? Yeah, it really means having a I

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Speaker 2: mean again, we all want to have plans. We want

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Speaker 2: to execute on those plans. For me, uh, And this

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Speaker 2: is even you know I would I would relate this

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Speaker 2: to uh. Something that you know, the walk kind of

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Speaker 2: makes me think of is that time where you know,

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Speaker 2: we have these we have our best thoughts in the shower.

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Speaker 2: Is the saying kind of goes It's it's allowing those

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Speaker 2: times to exist in your schedule where no one can

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Speaker 2: reach you and you're not needing to be reached like

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Speaker 2: you you know, okay, nobody should need me. I'm going

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Speaker 2: to go do that like in other words, I mean

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Speaker 2: go back to parenting, Like the rare times you could

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Speaker 2: get a shower in because the kids are around, it's like, okay,

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Speaker 2: they're all set up, nothing's going to happen, no emergencies.

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Speaker 2: Now I'm going to enter into me time. It's hygiene whatever,

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Speaker 2: but it's not that. In other words, it's work, and

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Speaker 2: so allowing those times to be in place. The other

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Speaker 2: thing is I just try not to stack the day

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Speaker 2: filled with stuff back to back to back to back.

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Speaker 2: I love to have buffer time in between the things

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Speaker 2: I do have, and to have those things be as

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Speaker 2: important as possible. The big picture stuff. Now we know

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Speaker 2: there's lots of little picture or admin type things, but

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Speaker 2: I will group those together. Those are some of the

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Speaker 2: things that always pop up when I do the legal

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Speaker 2: pad trick that I was talking about a moment ago.

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Speaker 2: Those are the things that then, oh, yeah, you're right me,

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Speaker 2: I need to do that. Tell you what. I'll give

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Speaker 2: you a time and a place for that in this

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Speaker 2: calendar block called admin on such and such a day,

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Speaker 2: And it's like a good you know, it's a half hour,

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Speaker 2: no more, no less, And I'll group all those two

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Speaker 2: minute activities right in there. That's where it goes. And

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Speaker 2: so then and you actually gain more trust in your

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Speaker 2: system and in yourself by doing that.

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Speaker 1: So you've shared a lot of great tips from the show.

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Speaker 1: But I'm wondering and talking with so many people over

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Speaker 1: the years, is there anything that you've heard a lot

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Speaker 1: but you don't do because it just doesn't work for you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I think that one of the things for me.

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Speaker 2: We've all heard that multitasking is bad, and I think

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Speaker 2: it's that our perception of what that is is bad.

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Speaker 2: You can set up multiple things to go and be

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Speaker 2: automated and do their thing, and then you can switch

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Speaker 2: between those softwares like I mean, I speak especially to

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Speaker 2: AI as our thing that we've been using now for

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Speaker 2: almost two years. You can set up workflows for that

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Speaker 2: and have it run and then I can switch back.

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Speaker 2: I will often do this. I will answer emails and

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Speaker 2: then flip back into AI and type something else and

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Speaker 2: further it along in the process or dialogue, and then

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Speaker 2: flip back to email, and that kind of breaks it up.

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Speaker 2: That's actually a healthy thing for me. With ADHD, you'd think, oh, no,

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Speaker 2: stay on focus, it's focused time you need to do

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Speaker 2: you know no. Actually, by jumping back and forth, it

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Speaker 2: does give me a little bit or enough, i should say,

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Speaker 2: of a variety of switching tasks. That so when we

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Speaker 2: say multitasking worse, I mean I'm doing two things at once,

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Speaker 2: but I'm not. I'm switching tasks. And again, if I

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Speaker 2: were to add a third or fourth thing in there,

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Speaker 2: that's where we get into trouble, and it's like which

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Speaker 2: thing what? Whoop? Uh no, and then I move none

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Speaker 2: of them forward as fast. But if I can switch

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Speaker 2: like two things, and it's going to kind of be

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Speaker 2: the right things. But play with that a little bit,

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Speaker 2: figure out what are some of those things that like

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Speaker 2: maybe you do something, you do two things that you

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Speaker 2: don't want to do at the same time, and then

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Speaker 2: because you're switching back and forth, you feel that perception

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Speaker 2: of time moving faster and that momentum, and you're getting

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Speaker 2: two things done and then you check them off.

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Speaker 1: So we have to do the right form of multitasking.

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Speaker 1: Got it. Well, We're going to take one more quick

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Speaker 1: ad break and then I will be back with more

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Speaker 1: from Eric Fisher. So I am back talking with Eric Fisher,

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Speaker 1: host of the long running podcast Beyond the to Do List,

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Speaker 1: I know podcasting has gone through a lot of changes

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Speaker 1: in the last few years. I mean, what do you

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Speaker 1: see as the future of podcasting.

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Speaker 2: I think it continues to grow, that's for sure. More

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Speaker 2: and more people know about it, know what it is,

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Speaker 2: and are consuming it in some form or fashion, whether

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Speaker 2: that's audio or video, or audio on a video platform

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Speaker 2: like YouTube. All these different platforms are starting to offer this,

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Speaker 2: like Spotify and YouTube. I have to assume because video

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Speaker 2: podcasting is not new. I used to watch video podcasts

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Speaker 2: back in that five oh seven oh nine time, and

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Speaker 2: they would download automatically through my Apple devices and I

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Speaker 2: would watch them certain ones. So it's not like it's

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Speaker 2: a new thing. But more and more people have access

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Speaker 2: to it, and more and more people are aware of it,

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Speaker 2: and so it's you know, and I think the other

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Speaker 2: key pieces I love that there's now shows or there

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Speaker 2: has been all along, but there's now shows that are

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Speaker 2: shorter like yours are except for this one, this episode,

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Speaker 2: I should say, But having that as like little pockets

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Speaker 2: of information that you can say, Okay, what's that one thing,

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Speaker 2: that one takeaway, what's that one experiment if you will,

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Speaker 2: that I can try from that episode? I think I

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Speaker 2: think there's definitely still more room to grow. I mean again,

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Speaker 2: twenty plus years now, but a lot of people didn't

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Speaker 2: know about it for the last ten or for the

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Speaker 2: first ten, and some have just even found it in

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Speaker 2: the last five. So it continues to grow and I'm

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Speaker 2: loving it.

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Speaker 1: Well, here's hoping we get to keep growing. Eric I

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Speaker 1: always ask my guests this question, what is something you

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Speaker 1: have done recently to take a day from great to awesome?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say again that I'm gonna lean on

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Speaker 2: my ADHD brain and one of the things that I've

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Speaker 2: found is doing something spontaneous and surprising. So for me,

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Speaker 2: it's hey, there's that new coffee shop that I've never tried.

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Speaker 2: Let's go there, let's sit there, let's soak in the atmosphere,

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Speaker 2: try something new, and it gives you a new environment

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Speaker 2: and a new you know, site, sound, smells, all the

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Speaker 2: sensory stuff, and that really can open you up in

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Speaker 2: your imagination, your creativity and all of that. And again,

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Speaker 2: it doesn't have to be just something that's consuming or consumable.

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Speaker 2: It can be going to a different place, it can

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Speaker 2: be even listening to different type of music, or it

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Speaker 2: can be but I stress that it's usually something sensory

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Speaker 2: for me that really makes things different. The one other

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Speaker 2: thing make it maybe relational. Call up that person that

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Speaker 2: you haven't talked to. I mean it's been six months

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Speaker 2: since we'd like talked, you know. Yes, people you still

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Speaker 2: use phones and have voice calls? Do that have that?

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Speaker 2: Two weeks ago I saw a friend I hadn't seen

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Speaker 2: in a year, and he happened to be in town,

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Speaker 2: and me and some other friends we all met up

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Speaker 2: and it was like, yeah, this so doing some of

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Speaker 2: those things that reinforce surprise and joy and creativity and

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Speaker 2: just fun, because I mean, what's the point of productivity

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Speaker 2: if we're not like enjoying our life because of it?

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Speaker 1: We definitely should enjoy life. Do you ever find it

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Speaker 1: challenging to come up with so many ideas?

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Speaker 2: I think that's not the problem. I think I have

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Speaker 2: more ideas than I can do anything with. I think

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Speaker 2: one of the sayings that you know, I think I

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Speaker 2: said this first, I don't know I've never heard anyone

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Speaker 2: else say it, is that good ideas come from many ideas.

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Speaker 2: So the many can mean a lot of them are crap.

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Speaker 2: But some of those crap ones put together with other

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Speaker 2: crap ones start to come into Oh that's a good idea,

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Speaker 2: but what's the great idea? And then oh, there's a

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Speaker 2: good idea and two crap ideas put together, so now

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Speaker 2: it's a great idea. So again, this is another one

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Speaker 2: of those reasons why we have like the legal pad

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Speaker 2: trick I talked about earlier capturing things, but also having

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Speaker 2: that kind of back burner simmering in some sort of

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Speaker 2: maybe uh digital brain where those ideas are captured. And

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Speaker 2: when you're looking for stuff that you know, you know,

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Speaker 2: I don't quite have it yet, but maybe I've got

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Speaker 2: something stored in my not in my real brain, not

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Speaker 2: in my physical brain, but my digital brain, and you

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Speaker 2: start to search for something topically related and it comes up.

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Speaker 2: And this is actually where some of the AI stuff

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Speaker 2: comes in. If you give it access to some of

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Speaker 2: that digital brain stuff and say, hey, I'm looking for

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Speaker 2: an idea I had that was about such and such

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Speaker 2: and da da da, and they well looks like, you know,

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Speaker 2: two months ago you had this brief snippet of something

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Speaker 2: is that you know, is that related in your mind?

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Speaker 2: And oh yes, there you go. So treating you know,

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Speaker 2: AI like an intern that can track your stuff.

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Speaker 1: Yes, Ai can be our interns, I guess before we

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Speaker 1: get to the point where AI becomes all of our bosses. Eric,

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Speaker 1: what are you looking forward to these days?

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Speaker 2: I'm I'm really looking forward to just some of the

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Speaker 2: things I've got on the horizon. A couple of different

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Speaker 2: things with like a group of nonprofits that I'm speaking

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Speaker 2: with in October that's going to be really cool, all

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Speaker 2: about podcasting and how they can use that. Really looking

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Speaker 2: forward to seeing kind of the questions they throw at me,

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Speaker 2: because they've a lot of them are interested in using

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Speaker 2: it but haven't used it yet, So that's one. Got

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Speaker 2: some other speaking things coming on coming up in the future,

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Speaker 2: and honestly just kind of growing and expanding and working

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Speaker 2: with some of the stuff like I have a partnership

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Speaker 2: with Blinkist that app where we put short versions of

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Speaker 2: my show in there, making more of those coming up.

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Speaker 2: Lots of cool stuff like that, and just just you know,

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Speaker 2: enjoying the life of productivity instead of the doing of

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Speaker 2: the productivity.

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Speaker 1: That sounds good. Where can people find you?

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Speaker 2: The best way is to go to beyond the to

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Speaker 2: do list dot com. There's a contact form there as

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Speaker 2: well as some of the links to socials that'll take

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Speaker 2: you to my LinkedIn or other things like that where

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Speaker 2: you can reach out.

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Speaker 1: Yes, please check out beyond the to do list. It's

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Speaker 1: a great show. Eric, Thank you so much for joining us,

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Speaker 1: and thank you to everyone for listening. If you have

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Speaker 1: feedback about this or any other episode, you can always

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Speaker 1: reach me at Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. In

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Speaker 1: the meantime, this is Laura. Thanks for listening, and here's

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Speaker 1: to making the most of our time. Thanks for listening

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Speaker 1: to Before Breakfast. If you've got questions, ideas, or feedback,

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Speaker 1: you can reach me at Laura at Laura vandercam dot com.

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Speaker 1: Before Breakfast is a production of iHeartMedia. For more podcasts

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Speaker 1: from iHeartMedia, please visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

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Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.