1
00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:05,560
Speaker 1: What's up people, That's not how I opened the show,

2
00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:09,879
Speaker 1: but it happened. Now you turn into a tech bro.

3
00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:12,719
Speaker 1: You guys are both really positive about this, but Sophie

4
00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:15,120
Speaker 1: is giving me the thumbs down and looks livid. I'm

5
00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:18,680
Speaker 1: loving casual Evans over. Yeah, it's We're an hour three

6
00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:26,920
Speaker 1: of the zutcast the pod mark this weekend. I'm Robert Evans.

7
00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:29,520
Speaker 1: This is Behind the Bastards, the show where we tell

8
00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:31,520
Speaker 1: you everything you don't know about the very worst people

9
00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:33,360
Speaker 1: in all of history. And again, this is part three,

10
00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:38,279
Speaker 1: so listen to the other two episodes. First, don't like

11
00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:43,360
Speaker 1: Mark like that song about the jeeps. Yeah rules. As

12
00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:46,320
Speaker 1: you can tell, we are all deep into bags of derrito.

13
00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:49,440
Speaker 1: We are deep into bags of Derrito's in order to

14
00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:52,760
Speaker 1: handle the stress of being in a hardcore zuck hoole. Yeah,

15
00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:59,320
Speaker 1: fully fully zucked. We're getting in the EU in the

16
00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:07,920
Speaker 1: We're getting z in the E. Thankfully eating a nice

17
00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:14,440
Speaker 1: D helped me deal with that the demon Rito, that

18
00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:19,120
Speaker 1: the D and M. That's what busy people say from

19
00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:23,560
Speaker 1: time to save Rio. It's too much going on in

20
00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:28,399
Speaker 1: this workaday world. In March of two THO, some asshole

21
00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:31,240
Speaker 1: named Robert Evans published an article on cracked dot com

22
00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:33,920
Speaker 1: title five reasons the Internet could die at any moment

23
00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:37,120
Speaker 1: I am not proud of The title was a different time,

24
00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:39,760
Speaker 1: but one of the entries on that ultra clickabilistical is

25
00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:42,160
Speaker 1: relevant to our current topic. It was about the worry

26
00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:45,399
Speaker 1: that something called the strip mall effect was rapidly destroying

27
00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:47,680
Speaker 1: the wild and weird Internet that most of us grew

28
00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:49,840
Speaker 1: up on, the place where each new click was as

29
00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:51,680
Speaker 1: likely to bring you to goatze as it was to

30
00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:55,160
Speaker 1: some dudes meticulously archived coin collection, or a website full

31
00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:57,480
Speaker 1: of roy Orbis and clean wrap fetish fiction and nothing

32
00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:01,240
Speaker 1: in between. Nothing, No, I mean literally everything in between.

33
00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:05,920
Speaker 1: It was a fun place, and ten was the year

34
00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:08,560
Speaker 1: that Facebook hit five million users. People were spending more

35
00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:10,280
Speaker 1: time there than they've ever spent on a website. The

36
00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:12,839
Speaker 1: worry was that Facebook and a few other giant, consolidated

37
00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:15,720
Speaker 1: social media sites would swallow up the weird little websites

38
00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:18,200
Speaker 1: that had given the Internet it's character, much in the

39
00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:20,480
Speaker 1: same way that Walmart and Target had swallowed up the

40
00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:23,239
Speaker 1: tiny shops and a family owned businesses that once dominated

41
00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:27,400
Speaker 1: Main Street America. Fortunately that didn't happen. Yeah, I mean

42
00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:31,079
Speaker 1: I don't need to say that. That's exactly yeah. I mean,

43
00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:32,920
Speaker 1: and I didn't make that call. Somebody else that I

44
00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:35,040
Speaker 1: was citing in the article did, but it was prescient.

45
00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:37,120
Speaker 1: That's exactly what happened to the Internet. The term they

46
00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:38,680
Speaker 1: used at the time was splinter neet, which is not

47
00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:41,480
Speaker 1: a term we wound up using, but I kind of

48
00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:44,600
Speaker 1: like it. I defind what Facebook did pretty well now.

49
00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:47,760
Speaker 1: Something else happened, though that almost no one predicted. I

50
00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:50,160
Speaker 1: certainly didn't. Rather than being an engine for the spread

51
00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:52,280
Speaker 1: of knowledge is many techno utopians had hoped at the

52
00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:54,760
Speaker 1: turn of the millennium, the Internet became the greatest engine

53
00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:57,480
Speaker 1: for the spread of bullshit ever conceived. Rather than bringing

54
00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:00,960
Speaker 1: people together, it facilitated division and hatred on an precedented scale.

55
00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:03,799
Speaker 1: Facebook is not the only corporate behind this, but it's

56
00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:06,320
Speaker 1: probably the largest one. I don't think this was inevitable.

57
00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:08,520
Speaker 1: I think most of the negative impacts we've seen Facebook

58
00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:10,760
Speaker 1: have can be tied directly to the things we already

59
00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:13,400
Speaker 1: know about Mark Zuckerberg. Based on the first two parts

60
00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:15,800
Speaker 1: of this podcast, there are a couple of clear facts

61
00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:17,560
Speaker 1: I'm established about the man, and I'm going to list

62
00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:21,320
Speaker 1: number one. He believes Facebook fundamentally is good, and so

63
00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:24,280
Speaker 1: keeping people on the site longer is also fundamentally good.

64
00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:27,320
Speaker 1: Number two because he guessed one thing about the future

65
00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:29,679
Speaker 1: correctly once, he thinks he is always right about where

66
00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:32,440
Speaker 1: the future is headed. And three, he has no problem

67
00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:35,440
Speaker 1: with lying, cheating, and stealing to expand Facebook and further's

68
00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:41,640
Speaker 1: the things he believes to be inevitable. Ha ha ha. Now,

69
00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:45,320
Speaker 1: in April sixteen, Mark Zuckerberg announced to the world that

70
00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:48,680
Speaker 1: within five years, Facebook would be almost entirely a video. Video.

71
00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:51,880
Speaker 1: He assured us, was how most people now preferred to

72
00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:54,960
Speaker 1: consume their content. This is what the kids wanted. He

73
00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:57,840
Speaker 1: didn't know that, as Jamie Loftus knows, the kids wanted toritos.

74
00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:03,520
Speaker 1: Dorito's hooking up. They're making love when it's doritos. They

75
00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:07,720
Speaker 1: are always making love and never hooking up. Scissor Robert's

76
00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:15,320
Speaker 1: lovingly scissoring. Let them have their beautiful romance. This is

77
00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:17,840
Speaker 1: my christ and a chip, This is my the notebook.

78
00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:23,599
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, no, that whole video content worked out great,

79
00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:28,800
Speaker 1: Speaking of someone, aren't we still all employed by all

80
00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:31,440
Speaker 1: worked out? Yeah? I remember when my friends and I

81
00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:35,960
Speaker 1: all had healthcare. Yeah, and then this happened. Rats on

82
00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:39,560
Speaker 1: getting that far. Yeah. Actually I'm a little older than you.

83
00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:41,600
Speaker 1: I had a couple of extra years, you know. I

84
00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:44,919
Speaker 1: hit the internet at its sweet spot. I came in

85
00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:47,480
Speaker 1: too late. They were like, butt chug something, and we'll

86
00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:52,039
Speaker 1: give you seventy five dollars. Okay, and I did, and

87
00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:57,080
Speaker 1: it's there forever and never run for office. No, I

88
00:04:57,120 --> 00:04:59,599
Speaker 1: will say this the one good thing about President Donald Trump.

89
00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,000
Speaker 1: There is no way in which you're disqualified from office

90
00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:04,880
Speaker 1: for but chugging. A guy got to the Supreme Court

91
00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:08,479
Speaker 1: and we talked about boofing and co bofing in congresses

92
00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:11,960
Speaker 1: will be the name of my memoir because we're just

93
00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:18,000
Speaker 1: gonna cut the mental manager. Yeah. I was so weirded

94
00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:20,240
Speaker 1: out to hear a term that my friends and I

95
00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:22,960
Speaker 1: used when I was damaging public property as a nineteen

96
00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:29,200
Speaker 1: year old, especially from a band with gigantic pores. Yeah,

97
00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:32,720
Speaker 1: always my favorite term. And again, I don't want the

98
00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:35,120
Speaker 1: creepiness of Brett Kavanaugh to make boofing look like a

99
00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:38,360
Speaker 1: bad thing, because boofing is an inherently noble action. Yeah,

100
00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:44,640
Speaker 1: it's gorgeous. Yeah, much like to Dorito's making love turn away.

101
00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:49,960
Speaker 1: You guys knows they've started moving, they're moving together, They're

102
00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:54,680
Speaker 1: always moving in your heart. Yeah. So Mark Zuckerberg tells

103
00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:57,840
Speaker 1: everybody that within you know, five years, Facebook is going

104
00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:00,440
Speaker 1: to be almost all video videos. How most people consume content?

105
00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:02,560
Speaker 1: Who tells everyone that is what people want? By this point,

106
00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:05,880
Speaker 1: Facebook had more than one point six billion monthly users.

107
00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:08,720
Speaker 1: The site was increasingly the place where ad dollars are

108
00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:11,720
Speaker 1: being spent. On the first quarter of sixteen, five cents

109
00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:13,880
Speaker 1: out of every dollar spent an online advertising went to

110
00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:17,400
Speaker 1: either Facebook or Google. So what Facebook says, make video?

111
00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:21,200
Speaker 1: You make video now, Maggie, You and I were both

112
00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:24,080
Speaker 1: working for a website named crack right around this time.

113
00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:28,080
Speaker 1: We're not working there anymore. Do you remember that fun

114
00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:30,320
Speaker 1: six months when we all got extra money to make videos?

115
00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:32,279
Speaker 1: You know what? That was really fun? That wasn't fun

116
00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:34,280
Speaker 1: six months fun? That was wild. I didn't get to

117
00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:39,279
Speaker 1: make video, but you guys did. Yeah. I liked those videos,

118
00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:46,320
Speaker 1: quality videos, directed by great people. Yeah. And then anyway,

119
00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:50,120
Speaker 1: video companies that have just shut down suddenly and then

120
00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:52,760
Speaker 1: they're like, I I just contacted them to get like

121
00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:57,120
Speaker 1: tax information, and they're just like, we just destroyed everything.

122
00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:00,240
Speaker 1: We burnt our files. Yeah, the one I was, We're

123
00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:03,400
Speaker 1: going a different company that did like little like news videos,

124
00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:06,240
Speaker 1: um and they too like it was like one minute

125
00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:09,200
Speaker 1: we were working in the office, then my friend and

126
00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:11,920
Speaker 1: I complained about one of our sexist bosses and we

127
00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:14,760
Speaker 1: got told to work from home, and then the company

128
00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:20,559
Speaker 1: went under. Well stuff out. Yeah, yeah, I got paid.

129
00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:24,520
Speaker 1: So Jamie, you have an out. You're going to flee.

130
00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:28,000
Speaker 1: Now you have to go back. Guys, I didn't want

131
00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:31,280
Speaker 1: to like make a big deal of this, but there

132
00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:35,320
Speaker 1: is someone like waiting from me outside, and I am

133
00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:37,400
Speaker 1: going to go back and have my name kind of

134
00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:42,040
Speaker 1: like leaped down every time it's mentioned, because are you

135
00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:44,800
Speaker 1: on a date with Martha? No, No, Jamie, Look I

136
00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:54,400
Speaker 1: mean to say, no, I'm fucking the Winkle bosses so much.

137
00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:57,320
Speaker 1: When I got to ask before you go. When one

138
00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:04,920
Speaker 1: of them climaxes, does the other make this sound? It's

139
00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:07,560
Speaker 1: it's but like pitch it up in aftive pitch up.

140
00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:12,560
Speaker 1: That's it. And they come bitcoins, which is pretty do

141
00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:18,640
Speaker 1: they go right into your wallet stopping wet, absolutely disgusting.

142
00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:23,240
Speaker 1: Sorry guys, my, they're wedding in their bitcoin. You go,

143
00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:28,120
Speaker 1: you go find love like these Dorito's Goodbye friends, well,

144
00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:30,760
Speaker 1: we've lost a loftus. Yeah, I feel it. I feel

145
00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:38,000
Speaker 1: the absence. We are unfed were but still have a

146
00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:40,839
Speaker 1: Maggie made fish, which is pretty great. I'm alright, No,

147
00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:45,440
Speaker 1: I'm no winkle boss. Well you're one and a half

148
00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:52,320
Speaker 1: winkle Bye you, I would say so, thank you. I'm

149
00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:55,760
Speaker 1: so happy those weird guys are stuck in pop culture forever. Now,

150
00:08:56,559 --> 00:09:00,840
Speaker 1: there's like a permanent fixture. And the only images will

151
00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:02,800
Speaker 1: ever have of them is them rowing in a boat

152
00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:06,080
Speaker 1: and being angry about Facebook. And that's them forever. They'll

153
00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:09,280
Speaker 1: never do anything to and we don't care. We won't

154
00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:15,200
Speaker 1: ever carry yet, I will never care. Beautiful now, uh.

155
00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:18,199
Speaker 1: Facebook offered a lot of incentives to websites that pivoted

156
00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:20,080
Speaker 1: the video for a short time. They even offered a

157
00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:22,280
Speaker 1: partnership where they would pay you to post videos on

158
00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:25,640
Speaker 1: their site. The entire digital media world very quickly swerve

159
00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:27,760
Speaker 1: to oblige what they thought were just the new realities

160
00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:30,640
Speaker 1: of the world. In two thou sixteen and seventeen, MTV

161
00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:34,839
Speaker 1: news vice vocative Mike and Mashable all fired writers and

162
00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:38,400
Speaker 1: editors and put more resources into hiring new video teams. Now,

163
00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:40,880
Speaker 1: Maggie and I both worked for a would say medium

164
00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:43,720
Speaker 1: sized digital media company. At the time. Crack did not

165
00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:46,079
Speaker 1: lay off its editors and writers to hire video people.

166
00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:48,360
Speaker 1: But we started pumping a ton of company resources into

167
00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:50,640
Speaker 1: making videos, and the people who had been writing articles

168
00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:53,200
Speaker 1: started spending more and more of their time pivoting for

169
00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:56,560
Speaker 1: them sweet sweet Facebook dollars, which honestly, like as someone

170
00:09:56,640 --> 00:10:00,680
Speaker 1: who didn't know any of the like tech stuff made sense.

171
00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:02,760
Speaker 1: It seemed great. It seemed great, It seemed to make

172
00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:06,040
Speaker 1: sense with you know, YouTube and you know, so this

173
00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:10,280
Speaker 1: is what the kids wanted. Zuckerberg new, that's what we're

174
00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:13,040
Speaker 1: about to get to. Now. This was not having in

175
00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:15,400
Speaker 1: a vacuum from about two thirteen to do this in fifteen.

176
00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:17,400
Speaker 1: I think Facebook was very good to most of us

177
00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:20,199
Speaker 1: because people like sharing our articles, and Facebook's algorithm and

178
00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:22,240
Speaker 1: share the articles people like to share got shared. The

179
00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:25,480
Speaker 1: huge audiences that really started to shift in two thousands sixteen.

180
00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:27,760
Speaker 1: We started seeing the same kind of traffic from Facebook.

181
00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:30,280
Speaker 1: Every few months, they tweaked their algorithm again and traffic

182
00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:32,400
Speaker 1: but fall this was all part of a strategy. Mark

183
00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:34,959
Speaker 1: Zuckerberg outlined in an internal email that can two thousand

184
00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:38,480
Speaker 1: twelve quote the answer I came to is that we're

185
00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:40,520
Speaker 1: trying to enable people to share everything they want and

186
00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:42,439
Speaker 1: to do it on Facebook. Sometimes the best way to

187
00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:44,400
Speaker 1: enable people to share something is to have a developer

188
00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:46,439
Speaker 1: build a special purpose app or network for that kind

189
00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:48,320
Speaker 1: of content and to make that app social by having

190
00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:50,719
Speaker 1: Facebook plug into it. However, that may be good for

191
00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:53,040
Speaker 1: the world, but it's not good for us unless people

192
00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:55,640
Speaker 1: also share back to Facebook and that content increases the

193
00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:58,440
Speaker 1: value of our network. So ultimately, I think the purpose

194
00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:01,520
Speaker 1: of platform, even the read site, is to increase sharing

195
00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:05,319
Speaker 1: back to Facebook. So Facebook was doing well for us,

196
00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:07,640
Speaker 1: but Facebook did not think they were doing well enough

197
00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:11,199
Speaker 1: by us because they didn't want people ever off of Facebook.

198
00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:14,440
Speaker 1: The splinternet because it is a it is a good

199
00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:20,000
Speaker 1: it is it's inherently good, and it's inherently good if

200
00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:23,679
Speaker 1: like Piste off boomer News x nineteen looks just as

201
00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:26,040
Speaker 1: credible in a headline form as the New York Times

202
00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:29,440
Speaker 1: because it's all on your Facebook timeline and yeah, and uh,

203
00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:32,000
Speaker 1: we're not going to check, and we will, we will check,

204
00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:34,920
Speaker 1: but we're not gonna, you know, pull any cards here now.

205
00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:38,280
Speaker 1: For a year or so, there, digital media companies worshiped facebooks, algorithm,

206
00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:40,240
Speaker 1: as if it was some sort of mysterious elder god,

207
00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:43,640
Speaker 1: inscrutable but capable of delivering vast rewards if properly appeased.

208
00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:46,880
Speaker 1: We published Facebook instant articles because Facebook paid us for those.

209
00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:50,120
Speaker 1: Fantacitly promised that they would increase traffic for our other content,

210
00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:53,800
Speaker 1: and of course, we filled the Internet with videos now

211
00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:56,760
Speaker 1: unbeknownst to most of us. In August of two sixteen,

212
00:11:56,840 --> 00:11:59,840
Speaker 1: Facebook quietly published a blog post on its advertising helps

213
00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:02,640
Speaker 1: in admitting that it had wildly overestimated the amount of

214
00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:05,440
Speaker 1: time people spent watching videos on Facebook. It turned out

215
00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:07,920
Speaker 1: they've been counting any video views longer than three seconds

216
00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:11,000
Speaker 1: for their average duration of video viewed metric, and discarding

217
00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:13,360
Speaker 1: any views of less than this amount of time. If

218
00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:16,720
Speaker 1: you understand basic mathematics, you may recognize this as providing

219
00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:20,200
Speaker 1: wildly inaccurate information about how value video adds on Facebook were.

220
00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:22,959
Speaker 1: So they were ignoring anytime someone scrolled past the video

221
00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:25,600
Speaker 1: like you do nine of the time. That didn't count,

222
00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:29,160
Speaker 1: only if you watched it for more than three seconds. Right, Well, uh, yeah,

223
00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:35,040
Speaker 1: that makes sense. Yeah yeah, doesn't it do for Facebook? Yeah? Now,

224
00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:37,880
Speaker 1: even that blog post had the reality of the situation.

225
00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:41,120
Speaker 1: Here's vanity fair quote. According to a new lawsuit that

226
00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:43,840
Speaker 1: allowed a group of small advertisers in California to review

227
00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:46,600
Speaker 1: some eighty thousand pages of internal Facebook records, it appears

228
00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:48,880
Speaker 1: that Facebook was actually aware of the issue long before

229
00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:51,960
Speaker 1: it claimed. At the time, Facebook told advertisers that it

230
00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:54,720
Speaker 1: had overestimated views by about eighty percent at most, but

231
00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:58,440
Speaker 1: in Tuesday's complaint, the plaintiffs alleged that average viewership metrics

232
00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:04,800
Speaker 1: had been exaggerated by a hundred fifty to nine percent.

233
00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:09,680
Speaker 1: Oh my god, it's so infuriating. That's my my buddies

234
00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:13,440
Speaker 1: and I don't have health care no more. It's just

235
00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:17,199
Speaker 1: it's so it's wild. Shout out to Tom Ryman and

236
00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:19,360
Speaker 1: David Bell in the game Plan employed network back, I'm

237
00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:21,560
Speaker 1: on Patreon because they don't have health care anymore. Take

238
00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:25,160
Speaker 1: it like like, and they're great people, and it's so

239
00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:29,280
Speaker 1: it's infuriating because it's just how can someone think that

240
00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:31,280
Speaker 1: they are good at business and then do things like

241
00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:36,840
Speaker 1: this like insane? That is that? Okay? That's like if

242
00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:39,600
Speaker 1: Marie Condo came to your apartment and as she was

243
00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:43,280
Speaker 1: cleaning up, just stole most of your clothing and walked away.

244
00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:47,400
Speaker 1: It's not on the ground anymore. Isn't it clean? Isn't

245
00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:50,800
Speaker 1: it anyway? You'll make a profit. I'm gonna go sell

246
00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:55,920
Speaker 1: this ship to Buffalo Exchange. The result of all this

247
00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:58,240
Speaker 1: was the digital media crash we are all still dealing

248
00:13:58,240 --> 00:13:59,880
Speaker 1: with today, which is not to say that companies did

249
00:13:59,880 --> 00:14:02,120
Speaker 1: not make mistakes, like all those companies that fired their

250
00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:05,280
Speaker 1: writers in order to hire on. Errors were made, but

251
00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:07,439
Speaker 1: they were made based on the fact that the company

252
00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:10,640
Speaker 1: that was responsible for all of the ad money lied

253
00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:14,200
Speaker 1: to us blatantly, and so blatantly that I don't think

254
00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:16,840
Speaker 1: anyone could have predicted that they were inflating their numbers

255
00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:22,880
Speaker 1: by a hundred and fifty nine alleged by the advertisers

256
00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:25,360
Speaker 1: who also got screwed over. Although I'm not super simple.

257
00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:29,880
Speaker 1: Actually I love advertisers. They're great well when they are ethical.

258
00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:38,280
Speaker 1: When they're ethical by advertising on our podcast Gorito Doritos Now, Uh,

259
00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:43,479
Speaker 1: you're wonderful, Maggie Um. The digital media crash was exacerbated

260
00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:45,200
Speaker 1: by a number of things, including the fact that after

261
00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:48,520
Speaker 1: the election, Facebook de emphasized and limited the spread of

262
00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:51,200
Speaker 1: content from brands, largely his reaction to complaints about the

263
00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:53,960
Speaker 1: spread of fake news on their platform. Thousands upon thousands

264
00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:56,480
Speaker 1: of journalists, writers, and other creatives lost their jobs. The

265
00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:58,680
Speaker 1: results of this were earth shattering, too many of us.

266
00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:00,520
Speaker 1: To Mark Zuckerberg, it all came down to a couple

267
00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:03,760
Speaker 1: of speeches he probably only half remembers. Now. I started

268
00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:05,880
Speaker 1: with this example of a thing Facebook broke because it's

269
00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:08,360
Speaker 1: very personal to me. But the consequences of Mark Zuckerberg's

270
00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:10,560
Speaker 1: bad decision making have amounted to a lot more than

271
00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:13,840
Speaker 1: a few thousand lost jobs. Let's talk about Myanmar. Oh,

272
00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:17,000
Speaker 1: here we go. The ethnic cleansing of the Muslim row

273
00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:19,400
Speaker 1: Hinga and Myanmar by the Buddhist majority has to date

274
00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:21,760
Speaker 1: forced more than six and fifty thousand people out of

275
00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:24,480
Speaker 1: their homes. Tens of thousands have been massacred. Forty three

276
00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:26,360
Speaker 1: thousand dead seems to be the low end of the

277
00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:29,600
Speaker 1: body count estimates. Last year, the United Nations announced that

278
00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:32,640
Speaker 1: Facebook had played a determining role in the massacre United

279
00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:38,320
Speaker 1: Nations determining roles. Other social media was also blamed, but

280
00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:41,680
Speaker 1: Facebook was by far the big cahuna. Quote from the

281
00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:45,120
Speaker 1: United Nations, it is substantively contributed to the level of

282
00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:47,920
Speaker 1: acrimony and dissension and conflict if you will, within the public.

283
00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:49,840
Speaker 1: Hate speech is certainly, of course, a part of that.

284
00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:52,560
Speaker 1: As far as the Myanmar situation is concerned, social media

285
00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:56,440
Speaker 1: is Facebook, and Facebook is social media. The how here

286
00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:58,160
Speaker 1: has a lot in common with the whole issue of

287
00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:00,080
Speaker 1: fake news and the spread of violent, divisive con it

288
00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:02,920
Speaker 1: that's turned American politics upside down. It also has connections

289
00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:06,040
Speaker 1: to Russia, because of course it does. Remember how in

290
00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:11,160
Speaker 1: two thousand nine, Facebook introduced that news feed thing. Oh yeah.

291
00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:13,440
Speaker 1: In addition to turning the Internet to a walled garden

292
00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:15,880
Speaker 1: sucking in ever more ad dollars, it also ensured that

293
00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:18,240
Speaker 1: divisive content would spread further and faster than it ever

294
00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:21,720
Speaker 1: had before. This is because, per Mark Zuckerberg stated desires

295
00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:25,120
Speaker 1: Facebook's algorithm praise time spent on Facebook more than anything else.

296
00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:27,920
Speaker 1: What kind of content drives that sort of engagement? Why

297
00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:30,680
Speaker 1: the kind of content people argue over and get angry

298
00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:33,480
Speaker 1: over to Facebook? Piste off people are the people who

299
00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:36,440
Speaker 1: aren't going to leave Facebook. They'll keep commenting, fighting, and sharing.

300
00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:38,880
Speaker 1: It took a little while, but oppressive regimes around the

301
00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:41,480
Speaker 1: world realized this. One of those regimes was me and

302
00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:44,320
Speaker 1: Mars military hunt partly pushed out of power into this

303
00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:46,720
Speaker 1: and eleven, but still very powerful and very shitty. Here's

304
00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:49,400
Speaker 1: the New York Times. They began by setting up what

305
00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:51,960
Speaker 1: appeared to be newspages and pages on Facebook that were

306
00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:54,680
Speaker 1: devoted to Burme's pop stars, models and other celebrities like

307
00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:57,560
Speaker 1: a beauty queen with a pin shot for parroting military propaganda.

308
00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:00,680
Speaker 1: They didn't tended the pages to attract large number of followers,

309
00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:03,400
Speaker 1: said the people. They took over one Facebook page devoted

310
00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:06,040
Speaker 1: to a military stiper own monk who had won national

311
00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:08,439
Speaker 1: acclaim after being wounded in battle. They also ran a

312
00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:11,320
Speaker 1: popular blog called Opposite Eyes that had no outward ties

313
00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:15,280
Speaker 1: to the military. Those then became distribution channels for lurid photos,

314
00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:19,120
Speaker 1: false news, and inflammatory posts, often aimed Nean Mars Muslims.

315
00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:22,000
Speaker 1: Troll accounts run by the military helped spread the content,

316
00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:25,480
Speaker 1: shoutdown critics, and fuel arguments between commenters. To rile people up.

317
00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:28,120
Speaker 1: Often they posted sham photos of corpses that they said

318
00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:32,720
Speaker 1: were evidence of Ringa portrayed massacres. This is interesting. So

319
00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:35,720
Speaker 1: you know, we watched the frontline documentary Roach talks a

320
00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:39,200
Speaker 1: little bit about this um. And to bring it back

321
00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:41,960
Speaker 1: to how Zuckerberg never learned and never grows up. The

322
00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:45,119
Speaker 1: way he cheated on his final exam at Harvard was

323
00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:50,160
Speaker 1: to make a fake account on Facebook post a divisive

324
00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:53,560
Speaker 1: article about the art that he was supposed to appraise,

325
00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:59,399
Speaker 1: made another fake Facebook account to stoke arguments on his

326
00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:03,280
Speaker 1: pay each so that he could write an essay made

327
00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:05,520
Speaker 1: off of other people's arguments, and he went on the

328
00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:08,280
Speaker 1: site to make sure people kept talking about it, kept

329
00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:11,720
Speaker 1: fighting over it, and that that's included in the Social

330
00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:15,320
Speaker 1: Network movie. And it's just wild to see him do

331
00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:19,240
Speaker 1: the exact same thing that led to that the military

332
00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:22,280
Speaker 1: of Myanmar did in order to engage in an ethnic cleansing.

333
00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:24,920
Speaker 1: It is the exact same thing. And how he can

334
00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:27,520
Speaker 1: keep claiming that he has no idea in the military

335
00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:30,719
Speaker 1: of Meanmar received training from the Russian government because they

336
00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:33,600
Speaker 1: were pretty good at doing this sort of ship. Yeah, yeah,

337
00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:36,280
Speaker 1: funny for all they do, they're pretty good. It's funny

338
00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:42,680
Speaker 1: that shitty people all think the same. Yeah, good times.

339
00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:45,240
Speaker 1: Oh we are having fun, you know. Every once a while,

340
00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:47,320
Speaker 1: just glanced at the two chips having sex just to

341
00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:49,720
Speaker 1: look remind myself they're still beauty in the world. That's

342
00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:52,080
Speaker 1: what Doritos is there for to remind you of the

343
00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:57,480
Speaker 1: world's wonder splendor of the world deritos. Now, for most

344
00:18:57,520 --> 00:18:59,960
Speaker 1: people in Myanmar, Facebook is the Internet. This is because

345
00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:04,600
Speaker 1: of a plan launched by our man, Mark zuckety Zuck himself,

346
00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:08,320
Speaker 1: the ear Zucker, the ear Zucker. Now we're gonna get

347
00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:11,720
Speaker 1: into that plan, but first we're gonna get into both

348
00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:23,760
Speaker 1: products and occasionally if we have time services products, we're back.

349
00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:26,520
Speaker 1: We've been produced and service. That's not the way to

350
00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:35,800
Speaker 1: frame that. And we were the ads were products. I'm

351
00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:40,679
Speaker 1: gonna have me a do rito cover that up. That

352
00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:46,160
Speaker 1: crunchy taste. I like licking the cheese off of the chip. Fantastic.

353
00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:49,520
Speaker 1: This is going to be either the best episode or

354
00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:54,120
Speaker 1: the worst episode for the s mr crowd. It's really

355
00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:57,359
Speaker 1: hard to predict. Dog. He's laying on my coat. She

356
00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:01,399
Speaker 1: likes the way your coat smells. Dogs, it's my sweat.

357
00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:05,400
Speaker 1: I'm Mark Zuckerberg in that interview. I'm just sweating out

358
00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:09,000
Speaker 1: of all of my holes. And dogs love that because

359
00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:12,879
Speaker 1: they don't judge. A dog would love Mark Zuckerberg if

360
00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:19,880
Speaker 1: he were capable of human affection. He has a dog

361
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:25,159
Speaker 1: named Animal. Oh my god, no, no, that's just I

362
00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:26,520
Speaker 1: don't know if he has a dog or not. If

363
00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,040
Speaker 1: he did, he wouldn't name an animal or farm animal

364
00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:31,600
Speaker 1: or farm animal, and then rate whether or not girls

365
00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:33,199
Speaker 1: he met were hotter than it. I don't think I'm

366
00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:35,399
Speaker 1: hotter than a cow. I've been thinking about this entire

367
00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:39,000
Speaker 1: time since part one. He has a dog, it looks

368
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:41,800
Speaker 1: like a mop. He has an expensive looks like a mop.

369
00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:44,800
Speaker 1: It does look like a mop. He would choose a

370
00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:47,919
Speaker 1: dog that looks like an object because objects are valuable

371
00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:51,400
Speaker 1: to him, and dogs are objects to some people. Now,

372
00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:53,880
Speaker 1: for most people in the animal Facebook is the Internet,

373
00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:56,120
Speaker 1: and this is because of a plan launched by Mark Zuckerberg.

374
00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:57,959
Speaker 1: As I stayed in the last one. The plan had

375
00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,040
Speaker 1: its roots in two thousand twelve, when Facebook for she

376
00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:02,320
Speaker 1: went public as part of an I p O investors

377
00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:05,960
Speaker 1: get research on both the businesses potential and its potential pitfalls.

378
00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:09,040
Speaker 1: One problem that was noted for Facebook in the future

379
00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:10,760
Speaker 1: is that by the time it went public, it had

380
00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:13,399
Speaker 1: already connected virtually every human being in the parts of

381
00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:16,120
Speaker 1: the world with white spread internet access. There just wasn't

382
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:17,920
Speaker 1: a lot of room for the company to grow. Everybody

383
00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:19,760
Speaker 1: in Europe and America is everybody in the countries that

384
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:22,639
Speaker 1: have a lot of Internet money. Yeah where where the

385
00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:24,680
Speaker 1: money comes from, because it gets sucked out the other

386
00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:29,719
Speaker 1: but yeah yeah yeah. Uh So, Zuckerberg realized that in

387
00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:32,719
Speaker 1: order to expand Facebook, he would need to connect the world,

388
00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:35,520
Speaker 1: so he started partnering with makers of cheap mobile phones

389
00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:38,600
Speaker 1: and service providers, initially in the Philippines, providing their customers

390
00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:41,240
Speaker 1: with free data when they used Facebook and just Facebook.

391
00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:43,800
Speaker 1: These first steps seemed to work well, so Mark announced

392
00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:45,600
Speaker 1: a formal plan in two thousand and fourteen at the

393
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:48,640
Speaker 1: Mobile World Congress in Barcelona, which is a fun week

394
00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:52,200
Speaker 1: if you're in tech journalist. That for another drunken Matt

395
00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:54,879
Speaker 1: vomiting story. I had to go to like deal with

396
00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:57,040
Speaker 1: a bunch of like one of these products showcases at

397
00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:00,280
Speaker 1: a hotel and I got really sick, either because of

398
00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:02,440
Speaker 1: the drinking or because I ate some bad pie am

399
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:04,719
Speaker 1: and I vomited in front of the hotel and then

400
00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:06,679
Speaker 1: got into a cab and the cab driver asked me

401
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:08,040
Speaker 1: did you see the King? And I was like, what

402
00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:09,200
Speaker 1: do you mean? Did I see the King? And he

403
00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:12,320
Speaker 1: pointed like a flag flying on top of the hotel,

404
00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:13,880
Speaker 1: and he was like, whenever that flags there the King's

405
00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:15,720
Speaker 1: at the hotel, and I was like, I think I

406
00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:17,920
Speaker 1: might have just puked in front of the King's limousine.

407
00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:22,880
Speaker 1: That's my, that's my. Matt hasn't changed or learned anything,

408
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:26,120
Speaker 1: and Robert hasn't changed or learned anything. And thirty years story,

409
00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:28,760
Speaker 1: I'm kind of proud of that, thank you. I'm picturing it,

410
00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:33,840
Speaker 1: and I'm proud still have problematic substance and I'm fine

411
00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:37,440
Speaker 1: with that. You know why, I guess who didn't exacerbate

412
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:42,200
Speaker 1: and ethnic cleansing in this guy? This guy, you're fine exactly.

413
00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:44,719
Speaker 1: You know, you read about these people like Dick Cheney

414
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:47,200
Speaker 1: or like George Bush who had horrible substance abuse problems

415
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,639
Speaker 1: and then sobered up and then killed millions. What if

416
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:51,600
Speaker 1: they'd kept drinking and doing coke and died at fifty?

417
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:57,879
Speaker 1: Better world? If your only other option is drugs with

418
00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:04,040
Speaker 1: the presidency, choose drugs. Lease, Please don't go into politics

419
00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:08,880
Speaker 1: after sobering up. Yeah, oh boy, we are a dangerous

420
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:11,800
Speaker 1: ground with this podcast. Well, that is funny that Zuckerberg

421
00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:16,080
Speaker 1: did try to incite the idea of presidency. I have

422
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:17,880
Speaker 1: been on record as saying that I think a great

423
00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:20,080
Speaker 1: TV show idea would be about a time traveling drug

424
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:22,639
Speaker 1: dealer who finds horrible people in history like Saddam Hussein

425
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:24,880
Speaker 1: and gets them hooked on pills before they can kill

426
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:28,560
Speaker 1: people like if Hitler had just had oxy he no

427
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:31,440
Speaker 1: no Holocaust. There's just sitting in the room listening to

428
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:35,800
Speaker 1: fucking Wagner into shipload of pills until he dies. World.

429
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 1: That would what a beautiful world, time traveling drug dealer.

430
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:41,360
Speaker 1: If anyone listening is worth a network or a time

431
00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:43,959
Speaker 1: traveling drug dealer, go for it and cast Maggie may

432
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,919
Speaker 1: Fish as your lead. I saw those pictures you did

433
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:48,879
Speaker 1: when you were like a twenties detective. You could you

434
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:51,399
Speaker 1: could rock the look for the episode in the twenties

435
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:54,120
Speaker 1: about Hitler. Oh my god, I'll do it. Yeah, I'll

436
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:57,119
Speaker 1: do it. It would be great, boy, Hotty. That was

437
00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,720
Speaker 1: quite the diggression. Know how we got there? It's it's

438
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:03,480
Speaker 1: a Facebook status. We keep pausing to discuss and then

439
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:05,800
Speaker 1: come back to the feed. Yeah, well here's back to

440
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,639
Speaker 1: the feed. So Mark announced his plan to connect the

441
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,160
Speaker 1: world at the Mobile World Congress in two fourteen. Here's

442
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:12,880
Speaker 1: a quote from The Guardian covering a speech he gave

443
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:16,720
Speaker 1: that day. This is marked. There was this Deloitte study

444
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 1: that came out the other day. He told his audience

445
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:20,840
Speaker 1: that said, if you could connect everyone in emerging markets,

446
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:22,600
Speaker 1: you could create more than a hundred million jobs and

447
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 1: bring a lot of people out of poverty. The Deloitte study,

448
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:27,480
Speaker 1: which did indeed say this, was commissioned by Facebook based

449
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:33,240
Speaker 1: on data provided by Facebook, and was about Facebook. Now,

450
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 1: the crux of Mark's plan involved giving people in poor

451
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:38,720
Speaker 1: countries free internet access to a limited selection of websites.

452
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:41,760
Speaker 1: Mark started with Zambia, but India was the real prize,

453
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:45,080
Speaker 1: with six or seven hundred million potential new users. Now,

454
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 1: there were some signs that just rolling Facebook out for

455
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:49,879
Speaker 1: free in these places might be bad, and two thousand twelve,

456
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,640
Speaker 1: a series of fake images began circulating on Facebook purporting

457
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:55,720
Speaker 1: to show the massacre of Muslims by Buddhists. This marked

458
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,159
Speaker 1: a riot that left several debt, but Mark did not

459
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:00,960
Speaker 1: pay this much heat. He rolled right head with Internet

460
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:05,320
Speaker 1: dot Org and began connecting the world Zambia, India, the Philippines,

461
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:09,960
Speaker 1: Sri Lanka, and a little country called Myanmar. Now. Last year,

462
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,320
Speaker 1: in an interview with Fox, Mark directly responded to the

463
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 1: claims made by the United nations about the genocide his

464
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 1: social network was enabling and making much worse. He brought

465
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:21,720
Speaker 1: up a recent success story to fake news chain letters

466
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:23,880
Speaker 1: that had been circulating on Facebook before they were caught

467
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:26,920
Speaker 1: and deleted. Quote from Mark, So that's the kind of

468
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 1: thing where I think it is clear that people were

469
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:31,360
Speaker 1: trying to use our tools in order to concite real harm. Now,

470
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:33,720
Speaker 1: in that case, our systems detect that that's going on,

471
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 1: we stopped those messages from going through. Now, as soon

472
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 1: as the interview was published, it provoked fury from activists

473
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:42,879
Speaker 1: and social media researchers in Myanmar who were actually working

474
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:44,639
Speaker 1: to stop the spread of fake news and saved lives.

475
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 1: Their response to Mark is pretty damning. I'm going to

476
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 1: read a healthy excerpt from it. As representatives of Myanmar

477
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,560
Speaker 1: civil society organizations and the people who raised the Facebook

478
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:57,080
Speaker 1: messenger threat to your team's attention, we were surprised to

479
00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:59,159
Speaker 1: hear you use this case to praise the effectiveness of

480
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:01,920
Speaker 1: your systems and the context in Myanmar. From where we stand,

481
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 1: this case exemplifies the very opposite of effective moderation. It

482
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,399
Speaker 1: reveals an overreliance on third parties, a lack of proper

483
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,640
Speaker 1: mechanism for emergency escalation, a reticence to engage in local

484
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 1: stakeholders around the systemic solutions, and a lack of transparency.

485
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 1: Far from being an isolated incident, this case further epitomizes

486
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:18,680
Speaker 1: the kind of issues that have been rife on Facebook

487
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:20,639
Speaker 1: and Meanmar for more than four years now and the

488
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 1: inadequate response of the Facebook team. It is therefore instructive

489
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 1: to examine this Facebook messenger incident in more detail, particularly

490
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:29,680
Speaker 1: given your personal engagement with the case. The pictures were

491
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,080
Speaker 1: clear examples of your tools being used to incite real harm.

492
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 1: Far being stopped, they spread in an unprecedented way, reaching

493
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 1: country wide and causing widespread fear and at least three

494
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 1: violent incidents in the process. The fact that there was

495
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:42,640
Speaker 1: no bloodshed as a testament to our communities resilience into

496
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:46,399
Speaker 1: the wonderful work of peace building and interfaith organizations. This resilience, however,

497
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 1: is eroding daily as our community continues to be exposed

498
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 1: to violent hate speech and vicious rumors, which Facebook is

499
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:58,160
Speaker 1: still not adequately addressing. Damn that eviscerating. They reported those

500
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:02,360
Speaker 1: posts to Facebook, which eventually a couple of days later

501
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 1: I think, removed them and then Mark Zuckerberg lied in

502
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:07,439
Speaker 1: an interview and said that Facebook caught them and removed

503
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:11,200
Speaker 1: the motherfucker. One of the things that hit Facebook on

504
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 1: most in that letter was an over alliance on third parties.

505
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:15,159
Speaker 1: In this case, the third parties, of course, were the

506
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,920
Speaker 1: people writing this open letter quote. We identified the messages

507
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,480
Speaker 1: and escalated them to your legal team via email on

508
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:23,160
Speaker 1: Saturday the night September Me and mar time. At that point,

509
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 1: the messages have been circulating for three days, and they

510
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 1: continued to circulate for several days after they were reported.

511
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 1: So let me be clear exactly about what happened. Number one.

512
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 1: After years of bloodshed and racism spread by Facebook, local

513
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 1: activists managed to warn Facebook in a timely manner about

514
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 1: a new threat. Number two. In a miracle, Facebook listened

515
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:40,600
Speaker 1: to them and remove the threat days after it had

516
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 1: first been posted. Number three. When Mark Zuckerberg took flak

517
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 1: for enabling an ethnic cleansing, he touted this as a

518
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 1: success erasing the existence of local activists in Me and Martin,

519
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 1: pretending Facebook itself had done this. Yes. The way that

520
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:55,960
Speaker 1: Zuckerberg speaks, because he does view himself as such a genius,

521
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 1: he often says no one could have seen it coming.

522
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,960
Speaker 1: No one could of It's been happening for years, for years.

523
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 1: People have been telling you for years. Several people could

524
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 1: have stepped in at various moments. Now, Facebook, not Mark Zuckerberg,

525
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 1: did issue a response and apologize for racing the local activists.

526
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:18,160
Speaker 1: In Mark's first response, uh now, manmar is the most

527
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:21,119
Speaker 1: shocking example of Facebook enabling unspeakable evil, but it is

528
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 1: not the only one. While Internet dot org seems to

529
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 1: be something of a failure in India, oddly enough, in

530
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 1: part because of a massive grassroots net neutrality campaign. They

531
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 1: got a bunch of Indian peasants to understand net neutrality

532
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 1: and realize they wanted it. And like, it's a really

533
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 1: cool story, but we will not cover in enough to

534
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 1: tie because this is a sad podcast about bad people. Yeah, yeah,

535
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 1: but it is a cool story. Check it out. Fake

536
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 1: news spread through Facebook has exacerbated ethnic tensions between Muslims

537
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:46,920
Speaker 1: and Buddhist as well as Muslims and Hindus, leading to

538
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 1: numerous angry mobs and several deaths. There has been quite

539
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 1: a lot of bloodshed as a result of Mark's relentless

540
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 1: desire to connect the world. Here's a quote from the fantastic,

541
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 1: utterly indispensable New York Times article where countries are tender

542
00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 1: boxes and Facebook is a match, solid time, solid titling.

543
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:07,280
Speaker 1: That's sexy. Title. Almost makes me forget that they platformed

544
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 1: the Dictator of Turkey and an op ed recently. But

545
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 1: that's but that's on the op ed section. You know,

546
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 1: that's different from these guys get hard working journalists. Quote.

547
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 1: Last year, in rural Indonesia, rimors spread on Facebook and WhatsApp,

548
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 1: a Facebook down messaging tool, that gangs were kidnapping local

549
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 1: children and selling their organs. Some messages included photos of

550
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:28,480
Speaker 1: dismembered bodies or fake police flyers. Almost immediately, locals and

551
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 1: nine villages lynched outsiders they suspected of coming for their children.

552
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:34,959
Speaker 1: Near identical social media rumors have also led to attacks

553
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 1: in India and Mexico. Lynchings are increasingly filmed and posted

554
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 1: back to Facebook, where they go viral as grizzly tutorials.

555
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 1: That kind of content does really well. You don't get

556
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 1: to five million friends about making a few enemies. Oh

557
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 1: my god. One of the spokes people that um Facebook

558
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 1: put up for front Line, if she was confronted with

559
00:29:55,840 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 1: that she would say, um, yes, act so we are aware.

560
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 1: We are aware. We are gangs. We just I mean,

561
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 1: we're a company that came from a dorm room. I

562
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 1: don't know if you saw the movie A dorm Room quirky,

563
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:14,080
Speaker 1: isn't that quirky? We're just like you know, we're found

564
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:16,720
Speaker 1: the doom. And now college students are being dragged out

565
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 1: of their dorm rooms and beaten to death in several

566
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 1: countries for being gay. We hear you, hear you. It's

567
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 1: not our fault that fake news about them assaulting people

568
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 1: spread on Facebook and then they got murdered. It is

569
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 1: our fault. We like dorm rooms and if you try

570
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,560
Speaker 1: to put in any law to stop us, we'll just

571
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 1: get slower and worse at doing this. So don't you

572
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 1: fucking dare dare. We're Facebook now. This ship has happened

573
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 1: in Sri Lanka to last year in the capital city

574
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 1: of Colombo, and anti Muslim video went viral. Activists and

575
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 1: government officials watched in horror as prominent racist posted things

576
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 1: like kill all Muslims, don't even save an infant, and

577
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:59,080
Speaker 1: let Facebook's algorithm carry it off to millions of angry,

578
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 1: armed people. Now, social media analysts in Sri Lanka flagged

579
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 1: the video and that baby killing post and then sort

580
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 1: of sat back to see if anything would happen. Despite

581
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 1: repeatedly complaining about the horrific violence unleashed by Facebook, the

582
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 1: company had not provided these activists with any kind of

583
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 1: direct line. Facebook had assured them the tool would work

584
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 1: well enough. The anti Muslim video and the kill even

585
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 1: babies post were found not in violation of Facebook standards.

586
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 1: One of these researchers who helped flag the videos told

587
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 1: The New York Times, quote, you report to Facebook, they

588
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 1: do nothing. There's incitements to violence against entire communities, and

589
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 1: Facebook says it doesn't violate community standards. Now, Facebook standards

590
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:40,760
Speaker 1: can be hard to parse out or understand unlike a

591
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 1: human and emotional level. Yeah, since they are a private company,

592
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 1: we have no right to that information. The best that

593
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 1: we can do is looked at some of the comments

594
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 1: Mark Zuckerberg himself has made on similar matters. Yeah, let

595
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 1: us shall. In an interview with The Guardian, he was

596
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:59,479
Speaker 1: asked about the proliferation of Holocaust denial talking points on

597
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:03,720
Speaker 1: his site. He called such content deeply offensive, but said quote,

598
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 1: I don't believe that our platforms should take that down

599
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 1: because I think there are things that different people get wrong.

600
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 1: I don't think that they're intentionally getting it wrong. It's

601
00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 1: hard to impute an intent and to understand the intent.

602
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 1: I just think, as a part as some of those

603
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 1: examples are, I think the reality is that I also

604
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 1: get things wrong when I speak publicly. Oh so, oh well,

605
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:26,960
Speaker 1: I mean it makes sense. He is a liar and

606
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 1: a thief, so he should allow a site that allows

607
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 1: other liars and thieves, because that is, he's a billionaire.

608
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 1: I get things wrong and accidentally claim credit for the

609
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 1: work of diligent activists who are trying to stop the

610
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 1: damages of my platform. And so also holocausts get things

611
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:48,480
Speaker 1: wrong too, And I can't can't be angry at him,

612
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 1: you know, I can't, because who am I to get

613
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 1: angry at that? Now? Facebook is a private company. They

614
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 1: are publicly traded, but they're a private company, and they

615
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 1: can set a policy of sense ship for any of

616
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:02,760
Speaker 1: their like any of this internal stuff. They can claim

617
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:05,239
Speaker 1: that this is all like our standards and stuff is

618
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 1: like a business like thing that we need to keep

619
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 1: secret otherwise other social media companies computer exactly. So I

620
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 1: just love that quote that like, well, if they're honest

621
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 1: holocaust deniers, why why would we censor them? If they

622
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:24,040
Speaker 1: honestly think Muslim babies should be killed, why why would

623
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:26,920
Speaker 1: we censor them. It's their opinion that Muslim babies should

624
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 1: be murdered, and that's okay on Facebook in my online country.

625
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 1: That's okay with me. That's okay now. In the interview,

626
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 1: Zucky zuck Zuckaru state his opinion and presumably Facebook stance,

627
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 1: that offensive speech only crossed the line when it endangered people.

628
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 1: We are moving towards a policy of misinformation that is

629
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 1: aimed at or going to induce violence. We are going

630
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 1: to take down if it's going to result in real harm,

631
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:50,200
Speaker 1: real physical harm, or if you're attacking individuals, and that

632
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:53,560
Speaker 1: content shouldn't be on the platform. So it's sweet to

633
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 1: know that killed these Muslims and their babies did not

634
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:59,480
Speaker 1: cross that line. Yeah, for him personally cross that line,

635
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:04,719
Speaker 1: I don't he understands what danger or danger across means

636
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 1: or is No, his life would change irrevocably if someone

637
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:10,640
Speaker 1: just punched him in the face want which is why

638
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:13,319
Speaker 1: I am in favor of punching rich young men in

639
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 1: the face. I agree. I think he would therefore maybe understand, oh,

640
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 1: what these people in Sri Lanka and Myanmar are going through.

641
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:23,239
Speaker 1: It might be like that one time I got hit

642
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:30,399
Speaker 1: in the face and I hated that. Maybe that would help,

643
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 1: oh boy. In that same interview, Marzuck also addressed the

644
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:39,440
Speaker 1: hate speech ethnic cleansing problem in Myanmar. But people use

645
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 1: tools for good and bad. But I think that we

646
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:43,359
Speaker 1: have a clear responsibility to make sure that the good

647
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 1: is amplified and do everything we can to mitigate the bad.

648
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:50,400
Speaker 1: Because they're one of their um, I don't don't know,

649
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:54,920
Speaker 1: spokesperson Verbatim said about the mean mar Um. They had

650
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 1: a bad experienced experience with some death mobs in an

651
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 1: ethnic cleansing, and so we as a company, we want

652
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:06,279
Speaker 1: to make sure that we want to reduce the bad

653
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 1: and increase the increase the good. Now, don't ask me

654
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:12,239
Speaker 1: any more question. Just to imagine, who were like a

655
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:14,920
Speaker 1: microphone talking to some lady who's been beaten to death

656
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:17,480
Speaker 1: in the street for being a Muslim in me and marche, So,

657
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:19,680
Speaker 1: could you tell us how could Facebook improve your experience?

658
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:24,520
Speaker 1: How can we make this better? How can we how

659
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:26,880
Speaker 1: can we fix this just a little bit, No, not

660
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:28,479
Speaker 1: that we're not gonna take it down. We're not gonna

661
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,279
Speaker 1: take it down. When he said your baby should die,

662
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:33,720
Speaker 1: that was not a violation of our terms. But because

663
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 1: maybe your baby should die. If I improved the timeline,

664
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:40,400
Speaker 1: would that help you how that we can make it

665
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:44,720
Speaker 1: easier for you to tell people that your baby gut murder. Okay, Okay,

666
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:50,239
Speaker 1: So maybe that does not all clear up exactly what

667
00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:52,959
Speaker 1: Facebook's line is, But thankfully an internal guy they handed

668
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:55,239
Speaker 1: out to their content moderators did leak out, and it

669
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 1: included the clearest statement from the company yet on when

670
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 1: violent hateful speech crosses a line. It's like a power

671
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:04,359
Speaker 1: point slide. Introduction is up at the top and then

672
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:07,279
Speaker 1: it says why do we I p block content, and

673
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 1: then there's some bullet points the content does not violate

674
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:12,239
Speaker 1: our policies. We face the risk of getting blocked in

675
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:15,000
Speaker 1: a country or a legal risk. We've respect local laws

676
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 1: when the government has made clear its intention to pursue

677
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 1: its enforcement. Holocaust denial illegal and fourteen countries. We only

678
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:23,400
Speaker 1: consider it for the four countries that actively pursue the

679
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 1: issue with US. So Facebook will only block the spreaders

680
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:34,719
Speaker 1: of dangerous content with the governments of those countries actively

681
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:37,200
Speaker 1: go after them. We don't care that it's illegal in

682
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 1: your country to deny the Holocaust. Only if you threaten

683
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:45,320
Speaker 1: Facebook's bottom line. Will we block Holocaust denial content? Yes,

684
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 1: then and only then then and only the freedom of speech.

685
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 1: But also if you're a sex worker, you can't use

686
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:55,760
Speaker 1: Facebook and stuff that's not okay. Deny the Holocaust? Absolutely,

687
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:58,279
Speaker 1: do it all day long. Advertise your business as a

688
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:03,360
Speaker 1: sex worker. No, no, no, sir or madam. No violence

689
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:08,800
Speaker 1: yes sex, sex no, very American, very American, very, Mark Zuckerber,

690
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:15,759
Speaker 1: Mark Zuckerberg. Violence, yes, sex No. Actually that should be

691
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:18,239
Speaker 1: our T shirt. That should be a violence yes, sex no,

692
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:20,640
Speaker 1: Mark Zuckerberg's face in the middle. I think we got

693
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 1: us a T shirt. Oh my god, I'd wear it.

694
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 1: I'd wear it twice. I'll buy it and then I'll

695
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 1: donate money to my local sex workers. There you go.

696
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:36,480
Speaker 1: They will appreciate. Yeah, alright, we got some ads, some products,

697
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:39,719
Speaker 1: maybe a service or three, and uh, well will we

698
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:43,879
Speaker 1: wait for that? Are you just licking that Derina? This

699
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:45,840
Speaker 1: is I actually looked it earlier, and this is my

700
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:49,720
Speaker 1: second leg maximizing the flavor potential. Yeah, this is oh

701
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:52,839
Speaker 1: my god, that's what we call him. The bisin. Yeah, products,

702
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 1: we're back. We we just finished talking about when Facebook's

703
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:06,520
Speaker 1: cool with holocaust and and the answer is usually usually

704
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 1: usually unless you're Germany and you threatened to go after him,

705
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:12,799
Speaker 1: which good on Germany. Good on Germany. And also I

706
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:15,640
Speaker 1: realized there must have been a day or someone wrote

707
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 1: down the four countries that will come out where we

708
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 1: have to stop holocaust and paceswhere is illegal but we

709
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:28,440
Speaker 1: don't care. Yeah, but it won't affect us. But it

710
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 1: won't affect us, so we're fine with it. Yeah. Now,

711
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 1: it would be unfair of me to acknowledge all of

712
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:36,600
Speaker 1: this without acknowledging that Mark Zuckerberg himself does not want

713
00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:40,040
Speaker 1: any of this ship to spread. There are anecdotal stories

714
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:42,240
Speaker 1: that when Donald Trump first announced his run for president

715
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 1: with that uber racist wall speech, Mark wanted to ban

716
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:47,799
Speaker 1: Trump from Facebook and his campaign from Facebook. He was

717
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:51,440
Speaker 1: reported kock down from this. I have no doubt that

718
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 1: if Mark Zuckerberg had been on the other end of

719
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:55,399
Speaker 1: that flagged murdered the Baby's post when it came through,

720
00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:58,440
Speaker 1: he himself would have deleted the comment and I p

721
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 1: banned that person. Any mun would, but Mark didn't put

722
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:04,680
Speaker 1: a human in charge of that job. He chose a robot.

723
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:07,759
Speaker 1: The biggest problem with Internet dot org, the reason that

724
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:10,880
Speaker 1: has been responsible for so much bloodshed. It was also,

725
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:13,480
Speaker 1: by the way, absolutely critical to the rise of Rodrigo

726
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 1: de Tarte. He was now killed twenty people. He has

727
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 1: a social media army who harasses him since death threats

728
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:21,279
Speaker 1: to be a Facebook to his detractors. Anyway, Facebook also

729
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 1: sent people out to help train his team and how

730
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:28,360
Speaker 1: to use Facebook. That's fun. They do that don't. But

731
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 1: the big reason that all of this violence has been

732
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:34,560
Speaker 1: possible is that Mark Zuckerberg launched his groundbreaking society altering

733
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 1: technology into countries that neither he nor anyone else at

734
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:41,440
Speaker 1: his company understood. This is the Silicon Valley equivalent of

735
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 1: the Iraq War, which by the way, was planned without

736
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:46,760
Speaker 1: the input of anybody who spoke Arabic, let alone understood

737
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:50,720
Speaker 1: Iraqi culture. Uh, they didn't have one guy who wanted

738
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 1: to take Saddam down so that he could make a

739
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 1: bunch of money because he's a crupt motherfucker and to

740
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:56,720
Speaker 1: be Bouer himself. But they didn't. They didn't. They didn't

741
00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:58,920
Speaker 1: have any like experts on the culture. And other than that.

742
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:01,719
Speaker 1: This is what Mark zuckerbig dig two, you know, when

743
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:06,279
Speaker 1: he brought the Internet via Facebook. It's there's a very

744
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:08,279
Speaker 1: short distance for a tool to become a weapon. You

745
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:10,200
Speaker 1: just to hold it above your head. And there was

746
00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 1: no people from me and war, no people from Zambia,

747
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:14,920
Speaker 1: and no people who were like working for Facebook and

748
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:18,040
Speaker 1: like on the ground in the company. They're letting algorithms

749
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:21,439
Speaker 1: deal with it, figuring that I'll be fine now. Victoria Rio,

750
00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 1: a social media analyst in Myanmar, told The New York

751
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:26,720
Speaker 1: Times a major issue in the spread of violent rhetoric

752
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:28,800
Speaker 1: via Facebook in that country was the fact that Facebook

753
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:32,759
Speaker 1: had almost no Burmese speakers that local watchdogs could communicate with.

754
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 1: The few people who speak that language and work for

755
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:38,080
Speaker 1: Facebook are based in Dublin, which you may note as

756
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 1: not me and mar not at all, not at all. Uh.

757
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:46,719
Speaker 1: And this is where we see, in my opinion, the

758
00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:49,760
Speaker 1: clearest downside of the move fast and break things ethos.

759
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:52,799
Speaker 1: Sometimes things you break are people. Maybe, if you're going

760
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:54,680
Speaker 1: to introduce a service to a new country and that

761
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 1: service has the potential to absolutely revolutionize the way they communicate,

762
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:00,840
Speaker 1: you should not do that until you have a sizeable

763
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:03,960
Speaker 1: team of people who speak the language and understand the

764
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 1: country actually working for you. Maybe doing anything else is

765
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:11,399
Speaker 1: unspeakably irresponsible and perhaps even evil. This is why Mark

766
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:13,640
Speaker 1: Zuckerberg is my pick for the worst monster of the

767
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:16,760
Speaker 1: twenty first century so far. He is not a murderous,

768
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:20,680
Speaker 1: violent man like Vladimir Putin or Rodrigo Jutarte. In fact, many,

769
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:22,359
Speaker 1: if not most, of the people who spend a lot

770
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 1: of time around him, describe him as warm, decent, a

771
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 1: good listener, and an empathetic person. But the twenty first

772
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:30,640
Speaker 1: century so far is a period defined by arrogant, mostly

773
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 1: men making rash decisions based on little evidence that have

774
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:35,880
Speaker 1: a shattering, violent impact on the lives of millions of

775
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:38,440
Speaker 1: people who live far away from them. Mark Zuckerberg is

776
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:40,200
Speaker 1: the equivalent of a little kid who asked for a

777
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:42,560
Speaker 1: bb gun for Christmas and was given a nuclear warhead,

778
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:44,840
Speaker 1: when that is the positive way to spend this the

779
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:47,239
Speaker 1: conclusion that gives him the most credit as a human being.

780
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:49,560
Speaker 1: There is a lot of evidence that this is exactly

781
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:51,560
Speaker 1: what Mark wanted, that his dream all along was to

782
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:54,440
Speaker 1: become basically the dictator of a digital nation, and that

783
00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 1: connecting people has been less important to him this entire

784
00:41:57,160 --> 00:42:01,239
Speaker 1: time than building an empire. An October of two thousand ten,

785
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:04,920
Speaker 1: Vanity Fair declared Mark Zuckerberg our new Caesar, and an

786
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:08,240
Speaker 1: article lauding him as the greatest of the Silicon Valley Titans.

787
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:11,560
Speaker 1: I'm going to guess that was a comparison Mark really enjoyed.

788
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 1: Here's another quote from that fabulous New Yorker article. He

789
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:17,800
Speaker 1: first read the Inid while he was studying Latin in

790
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:20,319
Speaker 1: high school, and he recounted the story of Enius's quest

791
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:22,360
Speaker 1: in his desire to build a city. That he said,

792
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:25,399
Speaker 1: quoting the text in English, knows no boundaries in time

793
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 1: and greatness. Zuckerberg has always had a classical streak, his

794
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:31,040
Speaker 1: friends and family told me. Sean Parker, a close friend

795
00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:33,400
Speaker 1: of Zuckerberg who served as Facebook's president when the company

796
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:35,840
Speaker 1: was incorporated, said, there's a part of him that it

797
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:37,960
Speaker 1: was present even when he was twenty one, that this

798
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:40,920
Speaker 1: kind of imperial tendency. He was really into Greek odyssees

799
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:43,439
Speaker 1: and all that stuff. At a product meeting a couple

800
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:45,960
Speaker 1: of years ago, Zuckerberg quoted some lines from the INID.

801
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:48,239
Speaker 1: On the phone, Zuckerberg tried to remember the Latin of

802
00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:50,960
Speaker 1: the particular phrases. Later that night he I aimed me

803
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:52,880
Speaker 1: to tell me two phrases he remembered, giving me the

804
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:56,000
Speaker 1: Latin and then the English. Fortune favors the bold and

805
00:42:56,560 --> 00:43:01,200
Speaker 1: a nation empire without bound. We are all duly aware

806
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:03,480
Speaker 1: of how fake news spreads on Facebook and the impact

807
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:05,880
Speaker 1: it may have had on the election in the United States,

808
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 1: and for some of us are relationships with our family members.

809
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:11,280
Speaker 1: Mark denied this at first, but he has gradually copped

810
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:13,400
Speaker 1: to a tiny amount of responsibility for the hundreds of

811
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:16,240
Speaker 1: thousands of fake news pieces Russia's Internet research agency managed

812
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:18,120
Speaker 1: to promote, although he thinks it's silly to blame the

813
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 1: results of the election on that. There have been numerous

814
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:22,520
Speaker 1: calls since two thousand and sixteen from Mark to step

815
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:25,120
Speaker 1: down from his creation. He has so far refused them

816
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:28,120
Speaker 1: all At present, despite a falling stock price and uh

817
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:31,200
Speaker 1: all the corpses, Mark Zuckerberg has no plans to give

818
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 1: up his empire, and I don't think he ever will

819
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:38,719
Speaker 1: know why would he at this point? Yeah, he is

820
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 1: my pick for worst person of the twenty one century

821
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:44,120
Speaker 1: because he's like, it's like Hitler. Pretty much, everyone's gonna

822
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:46,760
Speaker 1: call the worst person the twentieth century now killed more people,

823
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:49,319
Speaker 1: but now killed more people mostly by accident. Hitler killed

824
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 1: them because he wanted to kill them, and killed them faster,

825
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:54,280
Speaker 1: like concentration camps are a huge deal in that country.

826
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:56,080
Speaker 1: Hitler is the guy who really figured out how to

827
00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:59,719
Speaker 1: make the most efficient, most vile, most like terrible and effective.

828
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:02,880
Speaker 1: Mark Zuckerberg is the greatest thing thing. George Bush is

829
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 1: another one. Just a dumbass guy, got in power, fucked

830
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:08,720
Speaker 1: with a place he didn't understand and caused unspeakable height.

831
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 1: And Mark Zuckerberg is that guy. But for the world,

832
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 1: it's just fascinating. The reason I kept saying that Marker

833
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:20,919
Speaker 1: marker Berg, Markatberg, zuck is dumb is because I think

834
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:23,960
Speaker 1: one it would hurt his feelings the most. Yah, that's

835
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:26,759
Speaker 1: the thing he clearly values. He clearly values it, and too,

836
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:32,880
Speaker 1: I don't understand how he just blatantly didn't want to

837
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:37,120
Speaker 1: consider anything outside of his I'm gonna connect this country,

838
00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:38,440
Speaker 1: but I'm not going to have an office in this

839
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:41,080
Speaker 1: country where there are people who can deal with, say,

840
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:44,480
Speaker 1: the spread of violent and like racist propaganda. Yeah, that

841
00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:47,279
Speaker 1: would reduce my stock value because it's more expensive. It's

842
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:50,799
Speaker 1: just it's baffling. Uh, And I don't know if a

843
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:53,839
Speaker 1: cautionary tale is correct, but kind of just like a diagnosis,

844
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:59,080
Speaker 1: like a problem. It's a problem like Facebook is here.

845
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:01,760
Speaker 1: You're not going to stop people from connecting on social media.

846
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:04,399
Speaker 1: He needs to be removed, right, he needs to be gone. Yeah,

847
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:06,920
Speaker 1: and we need to understand like a different set of

848
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:10,160
Speaker 1: values for what our online space is going to look

849
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:13,800
Speaker 1: like and how the tool is going to be used.

850
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:15,759
Speaker 1: If you have to put a guy in charge, pick

851
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:18,400
Speaker 1: someone like Hamdi Ulakai at the Chobani CEO who was

852
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:21,279
Speaker 1: a refugee as a kid and understands the dangers of

853
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:27,320
Speaker 1: hateful rhetoric spreading like wildfire. Yeah, it's just it's sad.

854
00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:32,520
Speaker 1: It's sad and also speaks to the problem when power

855
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:35,160
Speaker 1: is hand in hand with money, because this will always

856
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:37,319
Speaker 1: be a problem when that's the case. And Mark will

857
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:40,719
Speaker 1: always have power because he will always be one of

858
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:43,080
Speaker 1: the richest people in the world, and he will do

859
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:46,719
Speaker 1: god knows what with it next what God knows. But

860
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:52,200
Speaker 1: I'll bet you he doesn't think it's I bet he's

861
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:54,080
Speaker 1: not going to do like what Lebron James did and

862
00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:57,680
Speaker 1: just start good free schools. From four kids, even though

863
00:45:57,680 --> 00:45:59,759
Speaker 1: he could he could do hundreds of him. There could

864
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:02,279
Speaker 1: be for his book, schools all over, but instead there

865
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:06,080
Speaker 1: is a Facebook hospital that does not accept anybody's insurance,

866
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:14,520
Speaker 1: but does it accept bitcoin. Um yeah, you know. Also

867
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:15,920
Speaker 1: a good time to point out that he doesn't have

868
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 1: a charity. He has an LLC. Everything is for profit.

869
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:24,920
Speaker 1: He's giving away his wealth. Yes, sure, yeah, are you

870
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:26,759
Speaker 1: telling me that when he said he was making a

871
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:29,400
Speaker 1: charity he actually built a perpetual money machine for himself

872
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:32,400
Speaker 1: and his family. Is like what I'm saying that sounds

873
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:40,719
Speaker 1: like oh Zucky Zuck Oh man, you crazy fuck yeah? Wow.

874
00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 1: It Also it's fascinating, um, you know, watching all these

875
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:47,840
Speaker 1: interviews of Zuccherberg, how many times he cites his origin

876
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:52,319
Speaker 1: story um as portrayed by Yeah, even though he says

877
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 1: he doesn't like it. Yeah, he has really glommed onto

878
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:58,160
Speaker 1: that idea of himself. And there's again just a snake

879
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:01,120
Speaker 1: eating its own tail. He believed is the mythos of

880
00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:06,800
Speaker 1: his own gene. Mark the zuck zuckman with a Samurai

881
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 1: sword in one hand and dead Burmese baby in the other.

882
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:12,880
Speaker 1: That's how we should start picturing z That's the shirt.

883
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:19,360
Speaker 1: That's the shirt. That's the shirt. That's the shirt. Sophie

884
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:22,279
Speaker 1: looks like he thinks this is a terrible idea, and

885
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:25,000
Speaker 1: it may be. It may be. Let let's do it anyway.

886
00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:27,239
Speaker 1: Let's do it anyway. My income is no longer tied

887
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:33,880
Speaker 1: to Facebook. Boy, Maggie, do you have any research that

888
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:35,799
Speaker 1: you didn't get to in this podcast, because I know

889
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:37,439
Speaker 1: you did a bunch you and they're normally our guests

890
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:40,080
Speaker 1: coming cold, which allows me to have the illusion of

891
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:43,480
Speaker 1: being smart. Right. Well, again, I think we did basically

892
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:47,320
Speaker 1: cover all everything the idea that he um buys into

893
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 1: his mythosum when there was talk of him running for president,

894
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:57,480
Speaker 1: that motherfucking that he was running off of the reputation

895
00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:00,960
Speaker 1: that the film and the book gave him, none of

896
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:05,440
Speaker 1: his own work, or the fact this is a personal opinion.

897
00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:07,600
Speaker 1: I have no problem with that picture of Trump and

898
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:09,839
Speaker 1: a truck. I have a huge problem with that thing

899
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:12,320
Speaker 1: of Mark on a tractor because with Trump in the truck,

900
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:14,160
Speaker 1: he's clearly having a great time. He got a chance

901
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:15,680
Speaker 1: to be behind the wheel of a big truck. Of course,

902
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:18,080
Speaker 1: why not any that's the most human thing he's ever done.

903
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:22,479
Speaker 1: He's like, yeah, I want to be this fine mark

904
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:25,719
Speaker 1: looks like a fucking ah. This is how you humans

905
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:30,640
Speaker 1: make money? Yes, yeah, um. And it's also crazy he

906
00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:32,919
Speaker 1: wanted to run for president and yet when you hear

907
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:37,359
Speaker 1: him talk, he's a void of charis who it is

908
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:43,480
Speaker 1: a just as straight as a run should be on

909
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:51,720
Speaker 1: the T shirt holding up a ball. It's it's wild

910
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:55,600
Speaker 1: the way that he was able to um adopt his

911
00:48:55,719 --> 00:48:59,440
Speaker 1: own I don't know. He became a Greek legend in

912
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:03,440
Speaker 1: his own mind. Um. And so literally nothing will stop him.

913
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:07,120
Speaker 1: He will keep stealing and keep breaking until there are

914
00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:10,839
Speaker 1: laws in place, which, again their company, every way they

915
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:15,160
Speaker 1: word their responses is basically a warning like, look, these

916
00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:18,640
Speaker 1: are problems that we like may have could have fixed.

917
00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:20,680
Speaker 1: But one first of all, like who, you've seen it

918
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:26,360
Speaker 1: coming and nowhere coming? Yeah, like who? And then secondly, um, basically,

919
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:29,000
Speaker 1: we just don't have a lot of resources, so like,

920
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:32,680
Speaker 1: you better not try to like regulate us or like

921
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:36,640
Speaker 1: more people. We don't need to be regulated. Why would

922
00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:40,960
Speaker 1: that be necessary with the utility, which we're not, even

923
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:44,920
Speaker 1: though people use us in their daily life and we're indispensable.

924
00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:48,280
Speaker 1: Now we're not a utility, so we can't be regulated

925
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:50,520
Speaker 1: or controlled in any way, shape or form. Yeah, it's

926
00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:53,879
Speaker 1: a problematic mindset that comes from his background and who

927
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:57,080
Speaker 1: he is and his early success. And you know the

928
00:49:57,120 --> 00:50:00,400
Speaker 1: way that he talked about women being compared to farm animals.

929
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:04,520
Speaker 1: What are people signing up for Facebook? But more farm animals,

930
00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:10,080
Speaker 1: more dumb in his mind, people giving us their data

931
00:50:10,239 --> 00:50:15,279
Speaker 1: to hand off to others for profit, um and for

932
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:17,080
Speaker 1: the sake of completion, which I do think is a

933
00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:19,800
Speaker 1: big fact. He just wants, he wants, he wants six billions,

934
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:22,480
Speaker 1: He wants six billions, he wants all of it. He wants.

935
00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:24,600
Speaker 1: You know, when we tried to take over America, what

936
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:29,319
Speaker 1: is that called the expansion manifest destiny. Yeah, you're right,

937
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 1: you're right. This is that exact attitude. It's manifest destiny

938
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:38,160
Speaker 1: for the Internet and people's um data. Yeah, that's a

939
00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:43,440
Speaker 1: really good comparison to drum. Yeah. I want to amend

940
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:45,719
Speaker 1: that we were choking a little bit earlier about you know,

941
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:48,279
Speaker 1: people who have drug problems and then sober up and

942
00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:51,680
Speaker 1: do terrible things. I think the answer is really really

943
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:54,799
Speaker 1: rich kids should be encouraged. Just no, don't go, don't

944
00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:57,480
Speaker 1: start an app, don't start a company. She's doing your

945
00:50:57,520 --> 00:51:00,359
Speaker 1: dad's got all the money to do shipload a drugs markets. Fine, fine,

946
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:04,000
Speaker 1: it's fine, be lazy and be by yourself. Let some

947
00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:06,160
Speaker 1: kid who's been at the other end of the hate

948
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:09,279
Speaker 1: mob and survived start the social network and be like, yeah,

949
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:10,600
Speaker 1: but we gotta make sure it can't be used to

950
00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:13,680
Speaker 1: do this, because that's because that's true. I know how

951
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:17,640
Speaker 1: bad that is. Yeah, yeah, I mean again, it's just

952
00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:21,440
Speaker 1: like another one in a long line of why, like

953
00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:25,319
Speaker 1: diversity will make your company, yeah better, not just will

954
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:28,560
Speaker 1: make it better. We'll stop it from committing horrific crimes

955
00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:32,960
Speaker 1: against humanity. Were ruining itself. We're ruining itself and its

956
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 1: brand by contributing to horrible crimes against humanity. Well, Maggie,

957
00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:41,520
Speaker 1: as we close this out, I'm want to propose something.

958
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:45,000
Speaker 1: We have these these two derritos, which are merged in

959
00:51:45,239 --> 00:51:48,040
Speaker 1: the dorrito equivalent of coitus. I'm gonna grab one and

960
00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:50,640
Speaker 1: to grab the other. We'll pull them apart and we'll

961
00:51:50,719 --> 00:51:53,560
Speaker 1: have these last derritos here we go. Okay, all right,

962
00:51:56,520 --> 00:52:04,719
Speaker 1: m morgen, a cigarette that three episodes of a lot

963
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:08,640
Speaker 1: of stuff and to toritos derito's with a lot of

964
00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:13,000
Speaker 1: loving them because Derito's I love my friends, Maggie. I'm

965
00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:15,279
Speaker 1: gonna plug your plug doubles before we close this episode out,

966
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:18,000
Speaker 1: I do um. Well, first, I will say, since the

967
00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:22,680
Speaker 1: Loftest left, the Lofton left for her new life with

968
00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:25,160
Speaker 1: the Winkle Boss with the wink Um, so do make

969
00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:29,600
Speaker 1: sure to follow her on Twitter Jamie Loft, Jamie loft Is,

970
00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:34,000
Speaker 1: Help You Get and Jamie Christ Superstar Jamie Christ Superstar

971
00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:39,760
Speaker 1: um please and also check out her podcast Bechtel Canist.

972
00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:42,480
Speaker 1: If you ever see her in public, don't say anything

973
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:44,919
Speaker 1: to her, but hand her a single orange and then

974
00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:47,520
Speaker 1: wordlessly walk away. Oh my god, she'll love it. That's

975
00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:53,319
Speaker 1: so Godfather's gonna be assassinated the day. Well should listen

976
00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:56,160
Speaker 1: to the episode probably and that ruins the joke, but

977
00:52:56,200 --> 00:52:59,000
Speaker 1: it wasn't a nice joke. Do that or break a

978
00:52:59,080 --> 00:53:02,640
Speaker 1: light bulb or a light bulbs See this is this

979
00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:04,920
Speaker 1: is why you need a diverse crew around you. Otherwise

980
00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:10,400
Speaker 1: I'd just be a ruinous lightbulb chucking orange throwing wreck there. Yeah,

981
00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:12,440
Speaker 1: I would also be terrible without the people around me.

982
00:53:13,239 --> 00:53:18,720
Speaker 1: We all are. That's why society exists. Because we're gross

983
00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:20,960
Speaker 1: monsters on our own. We need to help each other

984
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:25,920
Speaker 1: be better. Um. Yeah, so to follow follower follow me

985
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:30,120
Speaker 1: on Twitter at Maggie may Fish and Instagram. Uh. You

986
00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:34,040
Speaker 1: can find out my video essays on film and cultural

987
00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:38,200
Speaker 1: phenomenons on YouTube at Maggie may Fish. Um, including a

988
00:53:38,239 --> 00:53:45,120
Speaker 1: really fantastic one on David Fincher's by Flight Club. It's great. Also,

989
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:48,480
Speaker 1: when I was rewatching the social network, Uh, what a

990
00:53:48,520 --> 00:53:52,040
Speaker 1: heavy lifting off of Fight Club. And I will say,

991
00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:55,800
Speaker 1: much as Zuckerberg stole a lot of his data and ideas,

992
00:53:56,120 --> 00:53:59,560
Speaker 1: Fincher stole a lot of his ideas from lesser known

993
00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:04,760
Speaker 1: French and Russian filmmakers. Well, who among us hasn't stolen

994
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:08,280
Speaker 1: from a Russian? Hey, that's that's why they're so angry.

995
00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:11,000
Speaker 1: I mean, that's why they're so mad. Sophie's admitting to

996
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:12,759
Speaker 1: stealing from any Russian. I don't know where your dog

997
00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:16,440
Speaker 1: came from genetically, I don't know. That's true, entirely possible

998
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:18,839
Speaker 1: it came from some wolf on the Siberian steps. Could

999
00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:21,680
Speaker 1: be no way to know. I mean, probably a way

1000
00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:23,160
Speaker 1: to know, but I don't know. I don't know. And

1001
00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:25,239
Speaker 1: I'm Robert Evans, the host of Behind the Bastards, which

1002
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:27,160
Speaker 1: you can find on the internet at Behind the Bastards

1003
00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:29,759
Speaker 1: dot com, where they will be the copious source list

1004
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:33,839
Speaker 1: for this episode wealth these episodes, Um, you can find

1005
00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:36,799
Speaker 1: us on The Graham courtesy of Mark Zuckerberg at at

1006
00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:39,000
Speaker 1: Bastard's Pod. You can find us on Twitter courtesy of

1007
00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:44,120
Speaker 1: another creepy guy at at Bastard's Pot. And I agree

1008
00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:46,880
Speaker 1: with guy who seems to have a real perfose for Nazis.

1009
00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:51,040
Speaker 1: And uh, you can find my book A Brief History

1010
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:54,480
Speaker 1: of Ice on Amazon. And there's a Bizos episode coming.

1011
00:54:56,239 --> 00:54:58,319
Speaker 1: I mean, how could there not be? How could they're

1012
00:54:58,320 --> 00:55:05,040
Speaker 1: not very excited whatever, I'm glad she's getting a bunch

1013
00:55:05,080 --> 00:55:07,000
Speaker 1: of money. I mean, that's what I'm excited. She might

1014
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:10,480
Speaker 1: become the richest woman in the world. I hope you recognize,

1015
00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:12,239
Speaker 1: like you got a hundred and thirty billion, White Fight

1016
00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:20,280
Speaker 1: billion are the same amount of money. Yeah, maybe maybe,

1017
00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:27,160
Speaker 1: Maybe I don't know the man anyway, I know the man. Yeah,

1018
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:30,359
Speaker 1: we all kind of do. Don't wait, we know him.

1019
00:55:30,520 --> 00:55:32,240
Speaker 1: We know him. I do love. One of my favorite

1020
00:55:32,239 --> 00:55:34,719
Speaker 1: things is to look at pictures of Silicon Valley billionaires

1021
00:55:34,719 --> 00:55:38,080
Speaker 1: backward before they were billionaires, like like Elon Musk, before

1022
00:55:38,080 --> 00:55:43,840
Speaker 1: he got money. It's so cute. Oh he's a totally

1023
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:47,040
Speaker 1: different man. He looks like Dana Carvey in that movie

1024
00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:53,759
Speaker 1: where Dana Carvey played a turtle. God. Oh my god,

1025
00:55:53,760 --> 00:55:59,799
Speaker 1: Oh my god, oh my god. Oh that's a good

1026
00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:02,000
Speaker 1: note to end on a little bit of joy. Look

1027
00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:04,840
Speaker 1: up Elon Musk before you get rich, and just have

1028
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:09,720
Speaker 1: you a good time until next week. I'm Robert Evans

1029
00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:15,640
Speaker 1: and I love roughly h