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Speaker 1: welcome to hoops tonight. You're at the volume. Happy Saturday, everybody.

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Speaker 1: Hope all of you guys are having a great weekend.

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Speaker 1: We are here at the Serious XM studios at the

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Speaker 1: Win in Las Vegas. Shout out to the guys from

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Speaker 1: Serious XMENT. They're taking great care of us. My good

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Speaker 1: friend Adam, who I got to meet in person in

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Speaker 1: Denver a couple of weeks ago, who I was stunned

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Speaker 1: as I came over to your house for dinner and

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Speaker 1: he opens the door and he's like every bit as

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Speaker 1: tall as me, not taller, And I'm like, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: because we've just seen each other on zoom calls all

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Speaker 1: these times. But I appreciate you taking the time to

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Speaker 1: come hang out. Adam Mars does DMVR. Big Nuggets guy

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Speaker 1: also does a bunch of stuff for that company, and

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Speaker 1: they're building a really cool product that covers the league

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Speaker 1: on a team specific level. And before we talk any Nuggets, Adam,

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Speaker 1: there was a story this morning that came out on ESPN.

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Speaker 1: There's some frustrations, some drama brewing in Los Angeles. What's

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Speaker 1: your take on this whole situation with Lebron and the Lakers.

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Speaker 2: What a predictable mess we're in. Honestly, like this Lakers

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Speaker 2: Lebron era has. It's been longer than expected in many ways,

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Speaker 2: just because Lebron keeps playing. He's played there I think

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Speaker 2: more consistently, right more years in a row than anywhere

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Speaker 2: else in his career. It was almost always going to

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Speaker 2: end bad, and when the Luca trade happened, clearly the

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Speaker 2: team's moving on. So there's this weirdness between what do

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Speaker 2: they owe Lebron and because he hasn't been there there

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Speaker 2: his whole career, it feels inevitable that they get to

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Speaker 2: this place where it's hey, man, our future doesn't involve you,

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Speaker 2: and so for us to sort of mold ourselves to

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Speaker 2: fit you, you know, would slow us down for after

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Speaker 2: you're gone. So from part of me looks at this

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Speaker 2: and says, I get what the Lakers are doing.

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Speaker 1: It sucks.

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Speaker 2: You'd like to be able to send a guy off

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Speaker 2: after all he did. But in my opinion, this is

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Speaker 2: not at all surprising. It's unfortunate for Lebron, and here

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Speaker 2: he is, on the other side of some of what

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Speaker 2: he's been on his whole career, putting pressure on an

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Speaker 2: order to do his bidding. The Lakers are saying, hey,

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Speaker 2: we're not considering you. I don't know. It's kind of

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Speaker 2: funny to me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I see multiple angles here because I

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Speaker 1: totally think it's reasonable to look at Lebron and be like, yo, dude,

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Speaker 1: we can't go all in on this particular season. That's

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Speaker 1: too much to ask. With the big picture potential this

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Speaker 1: group has. We're trying to block Luca up long term.

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Speaker 1: If we go after let's say and Andrew Wiggins, for instance,

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Speaker 1: and they tried to include a first round pick, there

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden, handicapping your ability to make a

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Speaker 1: move down the line. Andrews thirty. There's some downsides there

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Speaker 1: in terms of him being a depreciating asset. I think

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Speaker 1: where I see a little bit more of a Lebron

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Speaker 1: like I get defensive of Lebron, is the contract side

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Speaker 1: of it, because like, I don't think Lebron is expecting

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Speaker 1: the Lakers to like trade Dalton in a first for

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Speaker 1: like a thirty three year old win. Now, I don't.

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Speaker 1: I don't think Lebron's that unreasonable. I think where he

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Speaker 1: is frustrated is like he was sixth at MVP voting.

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Speaker 1: He was second team All NBA even after he got hurt.

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Speaker 1: When he came back, he's still playing in that like,

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Speaker 1: you know, eleventh to fifteenth best player in the league

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Speaker 1: type of level at that point in time. And I

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Speaker 1: think he looks at it and he goes like James

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Speaker 1: Harden just signed a new two year deal, Like, why

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Speaker 1: is it that I am being like handstrung on just

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Speaker 1: wanting a one plus one like he always wants and

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Speaker 1: he feels like he deserves I think he feels like

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Speaker 1: as a basketball player, he deserves a one plus one,

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Speaker 1: and I I side with him on that.

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Speaker 2: They clearly spiritually are trying to move on, I think

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Speaker 2: is what it looks like. And I think the big

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Speaker 2: question is just how close are they? Because you're right,

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Speaker 2: Lebron is still great. I don't know if he can

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Speaker 2: be great for eighty two plus four rounds. That's the

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Speaker 2: big question. Lucas obviously great, You're eighty ninety percent the

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Speaker 2: way there. They do need to add a lot of depth.

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Speaker 2: Could they have done that this offseason? I would say no,

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Speaker 2: But I know a team that did add a lot

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Speaker 2: of depth with no assets or resources this summer, So

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Speaker 2: maybe it is possible. And of course I'm referencing the

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Speaker 2: Denver Nuggets, so maybe it was possible. Because in today's NBA,

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Speaker 2: I think everybody is trying to make these like four

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Speaker 2: or five year plans, or at least that's been the

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Speaker 2: status quot for the last several years. I think four

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Speaker 2: or five year plans are out the window, and so

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Speaker 2: the Lakers, with their decision making with Lebron, almost feels like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: but we got to set ourselves up for years down

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Speaker 2: the line. Maybe they'll be right about that, and maybe

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Speaker 2: Lebron is just too much for you to overcome and

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Speaker 2: your planning. But I look at it, I mean, I

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Speaker 2: do understand what you're saying. Is it realistic that they

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Speaker 2: could have built a contender, given them a one plus

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Speaker 2: one and said, yes, but we're going to do this

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Speaker 2: for two years and try to happen. Maybe probably not.

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Speaker 2: Maybe you owed it to him. It's a tough one, man.

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Speaker 2: They just clearly, I think, are spiritually moved on from him.

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Speaker 1: Well, and that's my thing is like I feel like

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Speaker 1: if you give him a one plus one, you know

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Speaker 1: he's certainly going to be worth the money the first

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Speaker 1: year as a player, like just ensure in terms of

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Speaker 1: sheer production, like sixty games the Lebron plus the playoffs

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Speaker 1: is still better than a lot of dudes who are

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Speaker 1: making fifty million hundred percent day, like Jalen Brown made

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Speaker 1: fifty million for a team that won the championship last year,

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Speaker 1: Like Karl Anthony Towns is going to make fifty million

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Speaker 1: dollars like is there are a lot of players around

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Speaker 1: the league that Lebron is just a better basketball player,

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Speaker 1: then that are that that provide more winning impact at

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Speaker 1: that salary number. So I sympathize with him in that

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Speaker 1: specific regard. However, I do think you're onto something. I

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Speaker 1: think this is a bigger picture, like philosophical We want

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Speaker 1: to clean slate not just from Lebron, but from the

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Speaker 1: entire era, right from when Genie Bus owned the team.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna we're gonna behave like one of the higher spending,

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Speaker 1: more sophisticated teams in the NBA. We're going to invest

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Speaker 1: more in all of these specific areas where the Lakers

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Speaker 1: organization was not investing the right amount of money. And

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Speaker 1: I think I think they're just viewing Lebron as like

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Speaker 1: get him out the doors, almost just like a complete

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Speaker 1: culture shift for the team moving forward, and I think

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Speaker 1: I think he's just a little offended by that.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's also power though, it's power and its leverage,

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Speaker 2: and Lebron has always had power and leverage impressed it.

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Speaker 2: One plus one is yes, we'll continue to allow you

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Speaker 2: to have that, saying hey, this is the last year

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Speaker 2: that's like you no longer have this. You want to

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Speaker 2: be part of the team here, You're part of the

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Speaker 2: team this year, But going beyond this, you have no

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Speaker 2: leverage or power. And whether that's the right move or not, again,

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Speaker 2: I just the Lakers are spiritually moving on from it,

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Speaker 2: and that's what that signals to me.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so before we move on to some nuggets, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to put you on the spot about the Lakers

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Speaker 1: in the West. So we have this top tier, the

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Speaker 1: three teams, and we're not going to put him in

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Speaker 1: any particular order right now, but Oklahoma City, Houston, and Denver,

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Speaker 1: and then I think there's a little drop off. But

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Speaker 1: we have like Golden State in this mix. We have

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Speaker 1: the Lakers in this mix. We have Minnesota in this mix.

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Speaker 1: There's the Clippers in this mix. San Antonio could theoretically

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Speaker 1: be in this mix. But there's that group of teams.

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Speaker 1: Is there a particular team in that mix as a

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Speaker 1: Nuggets as a person who covers the Nuggets that you

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Speaker 1: view as more dangerous to be a threat out of

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Speaker 1: that tier.

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Speaker 2: What's interesting about that group to me is you have

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Speaker 2: two teams Minnesota, who's had Denver's number, you know, for

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Speaker 2: the last handful of years with multiple bigs. And then

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Speaker 2: look what the Clippers just did. Norman Powell had an

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Speaker 2: incredible year for them. They lose him, willing to lose him,

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Speaker 2: but they bolster their front court with Collins and Lopez,

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Speaker 2: and I just look at those moves and I go,

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Speaker 2: that's a Denver Nuggets move. I don't know who that's for.

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Speaker 2: I mean, there are there Houston's, Minnesota's perhaps that you're

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Speaker 2: going to need that depth, or even just getting through

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Speaker 2: the regular season. You want to guys come in and

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Speaker 2: out of the lineup. You want to have somebody there.

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Speaker 2: But I look at that and I go in the

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Speaker 2: playoffs and I say, Okay, Zubots guarded Yokic really well,

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Speaker 2: but yok still over kayments still got them through that series.

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Speaker 2: But now they have forty eight minutes of at least

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Speaker 2: one big if not two, And so to me, I

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Speaker 2: think the Clippers now move into that category. The only

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Speaker 2: difference is the Clippers nailed this season. They were healthy.

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Speaker 2: Everything they did mean they were healthy going into the playoffs.

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Speaker 2: Can they do that again? I doubt it, But if

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Speaker 2: they are healthy, I would say Clippers and Minnesota those

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Speaker 2: are the two.

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Speaker 1: It was also the first year Kawhi didn't look like

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Speaker 1: a world beater in the postseason, because if we remember

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Speaker 1: in those other years when he would get hurt, Like

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Speaker 1: for the few games that he'd be playing, he looked

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Speaker 1: like I was like, oh my god, he might be better

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Speaker 1: than KD in this series, Like, oh my god, he

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Speaker 1: might be better than this guy or that guy.

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Speaker 2: Like, yeah, that one game, do you remember what was it,

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Speaker 2: like seventeen and nineteen or something. Yeah, the one game

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Speaker 2: he didn't miss any shot.

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Speaker 1: Yeah he had the one. Yeah, the one really good

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Speaker 1: game in the first round. Other than that, he was

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Speaker 1: he just didn't look as indomitable. And some of that, too,

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Speaker 1: is a credit to Aaron Gordon and just the job

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Speaker 1: that he does. But yeah, the Clippers are an interesting

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Speaker 1: one for me. It's the ball handling a shortcoming there.

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Speaker 1: Like I like that team a lot. If they do

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Speaker 1: get Bradley Beal, but without Bradley bal I look at

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Speaker 1: it as like, Okay, what if Kawhy does play thirty

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Speaker 1: five games again, it's a lot of James Harden at

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Speaker 1: that point. Okay, let's talk to some Denver Nuggets. So

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Speaker 1: as we zoom out from the offseason, they trade Michael

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Speaker 1: Porter Junior in an unprotected first round pick for Cam Johnson,

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Speaker 1: a move that I absolutely loved. We're gonna get into

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Speaker 1: that a lot. They signed Bruce Brown to one year deal,

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Speaker 1: They signed Tim Hardaway Junior, and they trade Dario Sariz

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Speaker 1: for Yonis Valancuna's a backup center. You also have the

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Speaker 1: potential for Darren Holden's to come back from his achilles

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Speaker 1: injury and potentially be an alternative big slash, a two

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Speaker 1: big kind of option that they can look at. So

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Speaker 1: a significant influx in talent, And the first thing that

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Speaker 1: I thought about when I saw this was just the

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Speaker 1: ability of Jokic to elevate and maximize offensive talent. And

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Speaker 1: I think Cam Johnson is just a better player than

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Speaker 1: Michael Porter Junior Tim Hardaway Junior to me as a

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Speaker 1: movement off screen score is such a perfect fit alongside

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Speaker 1: Nicole Jokic. Bruce Brown has demonstrated a fit in this matchup.

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Speaker 1: I was you shared this clip and I when I

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Speaker 1: saw it, it thought it made me think of just

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Speaker 1: like what a testament it is to Nicole Jokic and

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Speaker 1: just what an all time great offensive player. I've said

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Speaker 1: this before my show. I believe he's the greatest offensive

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Speaker 1: player I've ever seen Tate with. I think it was

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Speaker 1: old man of the Three Asks Cam Johnson and Tim

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Speaker 1: Hardaway Junior, Like, what do you guys think about the

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Speaker 1: prospect of playing with Nikole Jokic, And both dudes just

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Speaker 1: started cheesing, like right away, simultaneously, like not influenced by

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Speaker 1: each other, they both just get actively excited. Is that

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Speaker 1: literally what you were feeling this entire summer as all

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Speaker 1: this was taking shape.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it happened so quickly. To be honest with you,

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Speaker 2: I had thought we were joking over on the DNVR

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Speaker 2: show where we said what would PARR be for the offseason?

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Speaker 2: I was like, all right, maybe they had Canard, Luke Canard,

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Speaker 2: Bruce Brown, that's par anything better than that? This is

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Speaker 2: way better than that. And it all happened in forty

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Speaker 2: eight hours. And here's how I would put it with

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Speaker 2: Cam Johnson and actually Tim Hardaway Junior is one of

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Speaker 2: the guys I was trying to think of who's going

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Speaker 2: to be the biggest winner from this, and it might

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Speaker 2: be Tim Hardaway Junior. But here's what I'll say about Jokic.

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Speaker 2: Forget talent, He's never played with an all Star, all

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Speaker 2: defensive player, all NBA guy. Some of that is by design,

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Speaker 2: not all of it, but some of that is when

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Speaker 2: you play Jokic's style, everything goes through him. Some guys

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Speaker 2: are so much much better at it because the skill

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Speaker 2: you need there, in addition to ball handling and shooting

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Speaker 2: and whatever you specialize in, it's the ability to read

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Speaker 2: the court. Yep. And even if you go back and

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Speaker 2: watch when the Nuggets made their title run, Michael Porter

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Speaker 2: was a huge part of that. But there were games,

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Speaker 2: including in the finals, where Bruce Brown closed and the

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Speaker 2: reason he closed it was, we have to collectively solve

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Speaker 2: whatever the defense is throwing at us right now, and

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Speaker 2: CACP could do it, Jamal Murray could do it. Erin

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Speaker 2: Gordon could do it. Michael Porter can make shots, but

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Speaker 2: he can't always think on the fly. I think Cam

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Speaker 2: Johnson among your elite role playing shooters, is as good

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Speaker 2: as anyone at okay, what are they trying to do?

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Speaker 2: What are we trying to do? Read it on the fly.

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Speaker 2: So I think it is a perfect fit for Denver.

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Speaker 2: I think Cam Johnson is a perfect everything you got

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Speaker 2: with Michael Porter plus everything you wished you got from

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Speaker 2: him but didn't, and then even the ball handling like

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Speaker 2: he has been in Brooklyn these last couple of years,

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Speaker 2: and you know, role player, low usage guy gets to

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Speaker 2: Brooklyn this last year and a half and they say, hey,

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Speaker 2: expand a little bit attack. He's so good at it.

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Speaker 2: Off the dribble, handoff, off the pick and roll, and

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Speaker 2: good at it in the exact way that I think

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Speaker 2: is important for playing with Jokic. Not eight dribbles, not

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Speaker 2: nine dribbles. It's I'm coming off the handoff and I'm

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Speaker 2: not open. So how do I extend this quarter advantage

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Speaker 2: into the next thing. He's so good at it. I

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Speaker 2: think it's going to be a seamless fit. And it's

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Speaker 2: why I'm so high on the Nuggets and so excited.

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Speaker 2: I think Jokic looks at this and says, this is

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Speaker 2: like if you put in a lab, you put together

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Speaker 2: a bunch of guys that I want to play with.

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Speaker 2: This is the group.

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Speaker 1: Is this the best team that Nicola Jokic's ever played with.

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Speaker 2: I actually asked somebody on the Nugget staff this question,

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Speaker 2: and they said, I think so. But I also know

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Speaker 2: that the West is better than it was when we

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Speaker 2: won the title, and so I think yes. I mean,

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Speaker 2: we'll have to see it on paper. Bruce Brown knows

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Speaker 2: how to play this style. That's six. I think Denver

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Speaker 2: has had six guys who could play the style before.

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Speaker 2: I think Tim Hardaway Junior you mentioned him earlier. Great

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Speaker 2: off the ball, off ball, coming off screens, gets his

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Speaker 2: feet set, he can knock down the shots. He's not

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Speaker 2: a great like Iso score one or two dribbles, though,

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Speaker 2: It's almost like his limitations feed into what you want,

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Speaker 2: because you don't want a guy taking three four dribbles

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Speaker 2: come off if you need to take one or two

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Speaker 2: to get it to extend the advantage to it. So

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Speaker 2: I think he's going to have a great year because

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Speaker 2: he fits as well. And then you got the Valanchunis

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Speaker 2: piece of this, which is, you know, a little bit

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Speaker 2: of a wild card, but they've never had a backup

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Speaker 2: center of his caliber. So I would say that gives

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Speaker 2: me eight guys that I really feel confidence in. I've

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Speaker 2: only ever had confidence in six. So yes, I think

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Speaker 2: this is the best team.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know the part the point you're making about

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Speaker 1: like interchangeability is really important, and I think like a

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Speaker 1: lot of it with Bruce Brown was just as much

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Speaker 1: about Michael Porter Junior and his shortcomings as it was

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Speaker 1: about Bruce Brown and his strengths. And like, you know,

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Speaker 1: Michael Porter Junior had some utility. His ability to be

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Speaker 1: like a secondary rim protector slash defensive rebounder gave some

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Speaker 1: flexibility for Denver to use Aaron Gordon as a perimeter defender.

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Speaker 1: And that was the one Like if someone asked me, like,

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Speaker 1: what's what is Michael Porter Junior better at than Cam Johnson,

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Speaker 1: That's what I would say, I'd be like secondary rim protection,

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Speaker 1: defensive rebounding, Like those are the two things that I

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Speaker 1: think that And if you wanted to say, like straight up, standstill,

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Speaker 1: wide open three point shooting, he's probably at the same level,

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Speaker 1: if not maybe a little higher because he's had some.

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Speaker 2: I think a little higher. But that's such a low

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Speaker 2: part of shooting.

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Speaker 1: And how many of those are you really getting How

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Speaker 1: many of these like wide open catch and shoot threes

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Speaker 1: are you really getting? Right? And so Cam Johnson to me, like,

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Speaker 1: Cam is not a guy that I would feel comfortable

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Speaker 1: with guarding the other team's best player in four rounds.

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Speaker 1: But I do think he's a guy you can deploy

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Speaker 1: on the second best perimeter defender, a perimeter initiator on

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Speaker 1: the other team, And so I think that kind of

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Speaker 1: puts Aaron Gordon in a situation, and you and I

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Speaker 1: were actually texting about this shortly after the deal, Like

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Speaker 1: it's it allows Aaron Gordon to remain in the back line,

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Speaker 1: which I actually think is better for him with the

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Speaker 1: mileage that he has on his body now too, like

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Speaker 1: I want him by the rim rather than out chasing

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Speaker 1: guys around on the perimeter. But it also opens up

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Speaker 1: this door to where, like I think, I think Adamman

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Speaker 1: will be able to choose between Cam and Bruce based

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Speaker 1: solely on their strengths and not be hamstrung where it's

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Speaker 1: like mpj's not in this matchup, MPJ is struggling with

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Speaker 1: the physicality in minnesot to MPJ is struggling with this. Instead,

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Speaker 1: I think he's going to have like legitimate options that

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Speaker 1: he can go to.

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Speaker 2: I love the way you framed this because, first of all,

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Speaker 2: your point about the defensive end was I think you

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Speaker 2: were the first one on that, and I think it's

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Speaker 2: very accurate that it allows Aaron Gordon to be in

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Speaker 2: the right spot. But what you just said is interesting.

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Speaker 2: Denver would go with, oh, this is the better option,

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Speaker 2: but I think now they can go to this is

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Speaker 2: the right option. It's not like it's the better of

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Speaker 2: two evils. It's no, this is the tool we need

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Speaker 2: for this moment, and so we'll go with Bruce, or

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Speaker 2: we'll go with Tim Hardaway, or we'll go with Cam

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Speaker 2: Johnson or whatever it is. And the nice thing about

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Speaker 2: Bruce Brown, you know, because a lot of people ask

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Speaker 2: me why has he been so bad, you know over

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Speaker 2: these last couple of years, he is really good at versatility,

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Speaker 2: which is a weird thing to say. But if you

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Speaker 2: don't need that, and you're like, no, we need a

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Speaker 2: shooting guard, it's like, well, he's an okay shooting guard.

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Speaker 2: He can do some stuff, but he can play the one,

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Speaker 2: he could play the two, he can play the three,

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Speaker 2: and he could even play the four. I mean, he's

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Speaker 2: one of the rare examples of a guy his size

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Speaker 2: that plays the four at a pretty good level. And

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Speaker 2: Denver needs that because to your point, you might need

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Speaker 2: Christian Brown, Cam and Bruce might need Bruce Cam and

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Speaker 2: Aaron Gordon, any combination of those guys, you can throw

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Speaker 2: him in. And it was proved that's what they did

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Speaker 2: in that title run, and he could just plug whatever

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Speaker 2: hole it is. So I agree. I don't think he

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Speaker 2: no longer you have to pick the best of bad

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Speaker 2: options you actually have in theory good options or just

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Speaker 2: about everything.

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Speaker 1: So specifically with Cam, I think one of the other

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Speaker 1: elements to this is I think he is like legitimately

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Speaker 1: a full tier, if not two tiers ahead of Michael

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Speaker 1: Porter Junior. As like an off the dribble shot creator.

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Speaker 1: He's got a much higher capability of generating separation off

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Speaker 1: the dribble, and like rescue possession situations, he's got a

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Speaker 1: good side step three going both directions or step back

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Speaker 1: three going to his left. He's got like just a

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Speaker 1: little bit more of like a bag for lack of

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Speaker 1: a better term, in terms of being able to create

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Speaker 1: his own shot. There was this idea that Michael Porter

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Speaker 1: Junior could scale up his offense alongside Yo Kitchen certain

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Speaker 1: matchups like if Jamal Murray was out or anything along

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Speaker 1: those lines, and I think that that was true to

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Speaker 1: an extent, but it felt very matchup or like matchup dependent.

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Speaker 1: It depended on like type of coverage he was facing,

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Speaker 1: the type of perimeter defender he was on. I think

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Speaker 1: that Cam is going to give them a substantially higher

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Speaker 1: floor offensively because of the different options that they can

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Speaker 1: go to, like Aaron Gordon has developed into a nice

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Speaker 1: little low post, low post option as a shot creator.

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Speaker 1: I like Obviously Jamal Murray with bench units has been

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Speaker 1: a switch attacker. Actually we're going to talk about a minute,

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Speaker 1: but you know, Sevalincunis, I think is going to unlock

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Speaker 1: a little bit of some of the first team offense

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Speaker 1: with the second team, which I think is going to

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Speaker 1: be some you know, schemes, scheme consistency there. But Cam

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Speaker 1: Johnson just gives you guys an entirely different entry point

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Speaker 1: on offense that didn't exist in the past, and I

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Speaker 1: think that that's just going to add an entirely different element.

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Speaker 1: Like so, let me just ask you this. Do you

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Speaker 1: think Cam changes the way Denver plays at all on

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Speaker 1: either end, on either end of the floor.

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Speaker 2: One hundred percent. I'll go further. I think it's actually significant.

429
00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:51,080
Speaker 2: And I'll even disagree with you with what you said

430
00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:53,159
Speaker 2: about Michael Porter. And this is no knock on him.

431
00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:54,280
Speaker 2: I think he's a great player. And he had the

432
00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:56,640
Speaker 2: quote about I feel like my game plateau, and I'm excited.

433
00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:59,680
Speaker 2: I hope he's right about that. Honestly, I'm not trying

434
00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:01,120
Speaker 2: to I'm not try to like lad on the guy.

435
00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:03,560
Speaker 2: I hope he's right about that because I like Michael Porter,

436
00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:07,320
Speaker 2: but he actually has been a pretty robust creator, like

437
00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:10,200
Speaker 2: individual creator. And you were saying there's matchups. I don't

438
00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:12,000
Speaker 2: know if I agree with that, because I don't know

439
00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:13,480
Speaker 2: if there were guys where you're like, oh, he has

440
00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:15,680
Speaker 2: a size advantage, throw him into the post. He wasn't

441
00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:17,760
Speaker 2: very efficient at that. Oh we have a slow footed guy,

442
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:19,440
Speaker 2: let's clear out and give him space. I don't know

443
00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:21,520
Speaker 2: that he was great at that. What's great about Cam

444
00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:23,959
Speaker 2: Johnson is, yes, it changes the way they play because

445
00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:27,160
Speaker 2: they have Christian Brown, who actually got a lot better

446
00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:29,120
Speaker 2: as the season went on and over the years, over

447
00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:31,000
Speaker 2: his three years in the NBA, and just being able

448
00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:33,280
Speaker 2: to take these one and two dribble we run a

449
00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:36,280
Speaker 2: hand off, nothing's there, turn a half step advantage into

450
00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:38,679
Speaker 2: a full step advantage, and then move the ball to

451
00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:41,399
Speaker 2: get everybody into rotation. He can do that. Aaron Gordon's

452
00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:44,120
Speaker 2: phenomenal at it, and Cam Johnson I think is this

453
00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:46,120
Speaker 2: is the thing from going through the tape and watching,

454
00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:47,760
Speaker 2: you know, over the last week, I've been watching a

455
00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:49,760
Speaker 2: lot of him in this last year he's actually really

456
00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:51,840
Speaker 2: good at it, and in Brooklyn they gave him a

457
00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:54,480
Speaker 2: lot of freedom to say, we're running pick and rolls.

458
00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:56,080
Speaker 2: Probably if it gets you wide open, great, but it's

459
00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:58,119
Speaker 2: probably not do something with it. Get the guy on

460
00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:00,280
Speaker 2: your hip and do something with it. And he was parkab,

461
00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:03,919
Speaker 2: not flashy, not doing crazy things, but he was remarkably

462
00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:05,800
Speaker 2: good at just reading the court and figuring out which

463
00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:07,760
Speaker 2: way to go to get shots off. So now I

464
00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:09,120
Speaker 2: look at it and I say, your bread and butter

465
00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:11,439
Speaker 2: is Murray and Jokic. Aaron Gordon knows what to do

466
00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:13,720
Speaker 2: to keep the ball moving and turn these advantages into

467
00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:17,280
Speaker 2: big advantages. Christian Brown's getting better. Cam Johnson's probably the

468
00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:20,439
Speaker 2: best third option of that that Denver's ever had, and

469
00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:24,359
Speaker 2: probably even the second option behind Jamal Murray. So I think, yes, Denver,

470
00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:26,200
Speaker 2: I think the ball is going to be popping this year.

471
00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:29,119
Speaker 2: I think their offense, when it finds its flow, is

472
00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:31,800
Speaker 2: going to be incredible, and so I'm really high on

473
00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:34,720
Speaker 2: that starting five. I just think it's the most we

474
00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:37,120
Speaker 2: call it Jokic ball. Keep the ball moving, nobody slow

475
00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:39,440
Speaker 2: it down, reset, no resets, just keep going into the

476
00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:41,639
Speaker 2: next action. They have five guys that can do that.

477
00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:44,840
Speaker 1: It's going to be so beautiful. I'm particularly excited. I

478
00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:47,360
Speaker 1: like Cam. I think two is a guy that we

479
00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:50,440
Speaker 1: has developed a lot since he left Phoenix, and I

480
00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:52,560
Speaker 1: think his reputation is something that is a little bit

481
00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:54,359
Speaker 1: misunderstood around the league, Like this is a guy who

482
00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:58,200
Speaker 1: showed real on ball chops both offensively and defensively over

483
00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:00,159
Speaker 1: the course of the last year and a half. A

484
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:02,399
Speaker 1: couple of like kind of like smaller questions on the

485
00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:03,719
Speaker 1: fringe of the roster, and then I want to kind

486
00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:05,560
Speaker 1: of zoom out and look bigger picture with the league.

487
00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:09,560
Speaker 1: What are you hearing about the jonisvalan Chuna situation. Is

488
00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:10,720
Speaker 1: he going to be a Denver nugget.

489
00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:12,640
Speaker 2: I think he will be on the Denver Nugget roster.

490
00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:15,679
Speaker 2: I actually think that it'll be resolved relatively shortly. And

491
00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:17,399
Speaker 2: a lot of this has to do with Denver holds

492
00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:19,600
Speaker 2: the cards here. I mean, Denver can force him to

493
00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,560
Speaker 2: do what they want. You know, how much of a

494
00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:24,679
Speaker 2: fight is he going to put up? I think he

495
00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:27,399
Speaker 2: wants to be in Denver for a basketball reasons, you know.

496
00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:29,600
Speaker 2: I think I've heard some people say he doesn't want

497
00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:31,760
Speaker 2: to be a backup or backing up Jokic is so tough.

498
00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:33,679
Speaker 2: I don't think he has anything to do with those things.

499
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:35,800
Speaker 2: I think being part of a winning culture is great.

500
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:37,720
Speaker 2: He's bounced around the league a lot, and I think

501
00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:39,120
Speaker 2: it's been tough on him, and I think he sees

502
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:42,320
Speaker 2: stability over there. Denver can't offer him that, but they

503
00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:43,960
Speaker 2: do hold the cards, and I do think they'll be

504
00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:45,879
Speaker 2: able to talk him in to hey, look, this is

505
00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:47,840
Speaker 2: going to be a fun year. This isn't Memphis, this

506
00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:49,359
Speaker 2: isn't Washington, this isn't New Orleans.

507
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:50,080
Speaker 1: We like each other.

508
00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:51,040
Speaker 2: We like each other.

509
00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:51,560
Speaker 1: You know.

510
00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:53,879
Speaker 2: Justin Holiday had this great quote the year he was here,

511
00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:57,160
Speaker 2: which was twenty twenty four, and he said this, being

512
00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:00,240
Speaker 2: here this year made me believe in basketball again because

513
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:02,000
Speaker 2: he was a journeyman and there was a lot of

514
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:03,639
Speaker 2: teams and I hear of this from a lot of people.

515
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:06,480
Speaker 2: There's a lot of unserious teams and organizations, and you

516
00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:08,119
Speaker 2: go there and if you're not part of the like

517
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:10,840
Speaker 2: toxic culture or whatever that's going on here, you're just like,

518
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:13,600
Speaker 2: I'm in a looney bin. People that go to Denver,

519
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:14,800
Speaker 2: not all of them, but the people that go to

520
00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:17,600
Speaker 2: the Denver that just want a good stable culture. They

521
00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:19,840
Speaker 2: find it there, and I think Valentinas will find it

522
00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:21,719
Speaker 2: there as well. They'll talk them into it. But at

523
00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:25,280
Speaker 2: the end of the day, with Valentunis on the roster,

524
00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:28,400
Speaker 2: I put Denver in Tier one, and I put them

525
00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:31,320
Speaker 2: not like one B or you know, the number two

526
00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:33,359
Speaker 2: or number three. I put him right there with whoever

527
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:35,080
Speaker 2: you think is best in the NBA. I put him there.

528
00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:37,480
Speaker 2: Without valentiunists, they have the same problem they always have,

529
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:40,000
Speaker 2: which is every second Yokage is on the court, we're

530
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:42,520
Speaker 2: going to be hemorrhaging points. So he's essential to their

531
00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:44,840
Speaker 2: title odds, and I think that's the reason that they're

532
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:46,960
Speaker 2: going to say, sorry, man, we can't budge on this,

533
00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:49,600
Speaker 2: so before we look at where they rank at the

534
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:51,880
Speaker 2: top of the league. Because I'm fascinated by that concept.

535
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:55,240
Speaker 2: I have a couple more small ones centering around yonas

536
00:22:55,280 --> 00:23:00,439
Speaker 2: Valentiunis with Dayron Holmes. Do you view him as a

537
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:05,359
Speaker 2: guy that will potentially threaten Jonus and his backup spot

538
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:06,800
Speaker 2: or do you view him as more of like a

539
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:08,359
Speaker 2: guy who's going to be in two big looks as

540
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:12,720
Speaker 2: essentially an oversize four. I cannot imagine him overtaking vald Gnis.

541
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:14,439
Speaker 2: I mean, for one, just the sides, he's not that

542
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:16,440
Speaker 2: big of a guy. I mean he's a young guy,

543
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:18,080
Speaker 2: so he's still filling out. He actually, I think it

544
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:20,040
Speaker 2: did really good work over the last four months or

545
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:22,560
Speaker 2: so getting his body bigger than what it was. Yeah,

546
00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:24,760
Speaker 2: vound Junas is a seven footer with the you know,

547
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:28,040
Speaker 2: broad shoulders, big, big, thick guy. So number one, no,

548
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:30,480
Speaker 2: absolutely not. But the second part is I'm not sure

549
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 2: he'll be in the rotation. You know, he'll compete with

550
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:36,399
Speaker 2: Zeke Naji for backup power forward, but Denver also can

551
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:38,640
Speaker 2: play Cam Johnson at power forward. They can play Bruce

552
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:41,000
Speaker 2: Brown at that spot, They can play Peyton Watson at

553
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,000
Speaker 2: that spot and move other people into the guard. So

554
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:45,600
Speaker 2: to me, Doron Holmes doesn't only have to beat out

555
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:49,159
Speaker 2: Zeke Naji, but or Aaron Gordon Stagger, whoever it is.

556
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:50,360
Speaker 2: But then you have to beat out all the other

557
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 2: guys that you can just play small. So I like him.

558
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:54,719
Speaker 2: I think it'd be putting too much pressure on him

559
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:56,159
Speaker 2: to expect him to be a part of the rotation.

560
00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:59,280
Speaker 2: I think he'll get minutes just by eighty two game season.

561
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:02,359
Speaker 2: But my expectation is that this will be a true

562
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:04,399
Speaker 2: like training Will's year for him and he won't be

563
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:05,760
Speaker 2: a meaningful part of their season.

564
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:07,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's an important thing to Mr. He's literally not

565
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:10,760
Speaker 1: played NBA Basket CAAM for so there could be an adjustment.

566
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:12,399
Speaker 1: They're one of the things I'm specifically excited about with

567
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:13,920
Speaker 1: jonas found erin As we talked about this a little

568
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 1: bit earlier. We hinted at it, but like, is the

569
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 1: scheme consistency. So one of the things I've noticed consistently

570
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:20,439
Speaker 1: with Denver over the years is that when they go

571
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 1: to their bench, because they haven't had a good backup

572
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:25,640
Speaker 1: center option, the majority of the time, they've gone smaller,

573
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:28,720
Speaker 1: and it's you know, maybe it's the anology, maybe it's Aaron

574
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:30,760
Speaker 1: Gordon at the five, but they just go to a

575
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:33,800
Speaker 1: switching defense and then on the offensive end of the

576
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 1: floor of the opponent because they're going against a bunch

577
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:39,119
Speaker 1: of perimeter players, also ends up switching everything and then

578
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:42,040
Speaker 1: it kind of just devolves into this like Yoka or

579
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:45,359
Speaker 1: excuse me, Murray and Gordon like picking on matchups. It

580
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:47,159
Speaker 1: might be Gordon attacking out of the post, who might

581
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 1: meet Jamal taking a big out on the perimeter or

582
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:52,000
Speaker 1: a smaller guard to the post and just working a

583
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:55,800
Speaker 1: lot of ISO against switches. I think Jonis will give

584
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 1: them the ability to essentially have scheme consistency from the

585
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:02,600
Speaker 1: starting group to the bad essentially meaning Jonas can run

586
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:05,040
Speaker 1: the same version of the drop coverage that Nikola Jokic

587
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:07,280
Speaker 1: does up at the level or deeper drop depending on

588
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:09,120
Speaker 1: the matchup. And then I think he's going to allow

589
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:11,480
Speaker 1: them to continue to run their a lot of their

590
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,840
Speaker 1: like five out type of attack with a dribble handoffolkrum

591
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:16,359
Speaker 1: at the top of the key in the form of Yonas,

592
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:18,959
Speaker 1: and Yonas is capable of popping the way that Jokic

593
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:21,719
Speaker 1: is in ball screens. Yonas is capable of like like

594
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,520
Speaker 1: he's got a big, a backup big who can't handle

595
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 1: him on the block, We're going to toss him the

596
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:27,119
Speaker 1: ball and he's going to be able to go to

597
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:29,600
Speaker 1: work there. And so in terms of all the versatility

598
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 1: we were discussing earlier, now the Nuggets will have small

599
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 1: ball looks and the ability to maintain some schemes consistency

600
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 1: when they go to the bench.

601
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:42,679
Speaker 2: He might be right about that. I think Valanchiunas is

602
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:44,880
Speaker 2: good at those things. Maybe he's better than we've seen.

603
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 2: And when you have a team that's you know, you're

604
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:48,200
Speaker 2: not if a guy is a good at a thing,

605
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,240
Speaker 2: do you alter your offense to run that style? Whereas

606
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 2: Denver already runs that style. So if he can do it,

607
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:55,639
Speaker 2: then of course we'll allow him to expand on that.

608
00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 2: So it's interesting. David Adelman said this yesterday on the broadcast,

609
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:00,960
Speaker 2: So I think you're onto it, even though to me

610
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:03,159
Speaker 2: it seems a little bit foreign. David Adaman said that

611
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 2: exact thing. He reminds me of Jokich. He'll be able

612
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 2: to play like Jokic with the second unit, and it

613
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 2: will be interesting. If you knew that, you know, it's interesting.

614
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:11,520
Speaker 2: I'm taking this a little bit of a different direction.

615
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,439
Speaker 2: Let's just say it's a little funnier. I don't know

616
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:17,960
Speaker 2: if people know this, but Serbia, well, really Yugoslavia and

617
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 2: then Serbia and then Lithuania have a nice history. I

618
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:24,400
Speaker 2: mean it's a thirty year history and really going back

619
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,679
Speaker 2: because the breakup of Yugoslavia and the breakup of the

620
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,480
Speaker 2: Soviet Union happened at similar times, and so you get

621
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 2: this like golden era of Serbian basketball. At the exact

622
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 2: same time as the golden era of the Soviet Union

623
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,240
Speaker 2: and the Lithuanian basketball, and they had a nice rivalry.

624
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 2: And who did they have, Vladi Devots or Venus Sabonis,

625
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,200
Speaker 2: two all time great European centers who just happened to

626
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 2: be hitting their peak at the same time and played

627
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 2: similar styles more or less. And so there's always been

628
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 2: a nice rivalry between these two countries. I say nice.

629
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 2: I don't know if they would say it's nice. I

630
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 2: think it's actually contentious. But what's cool about it is

631
00:26:57,520 --> 00:26:59,679
Speaker 2: those are two basketball nations in Europe. Those are the

632
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:01,480
Speaker 2: two in my opinion. I mean Italy if you go

633
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:04,119
Speaker 2: back even further, but and then France Spain they've had

634
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:05,720
Speaker 2: their different eras. But if you go back one hundred

635
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:09,480
Speaker 2: years and just say, okay, those countries really adapted basketball,

636
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:11,880
Speaker 2: and now you got two of the best of their

637
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 2: you know, own countries now on the same team. And

638
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 2: I'm just curious if it brings out the best of

639
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,440
Speaker 2: them in that way. So your point about Valentunis can

640
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:21,920
Speaker 2: play like Jokic. I almost wonder if it's like, hey,

641
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:24,919
Speaker 2: Lithuania and Serbia, here we are. Let's both you know,

642
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 2: kind of play this style and get things going.

643
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, can Yogic bring the best out of him?

644
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:28,920
Speaker 2: Correct?

645
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:31,920
Speaker 1: Exactly No, And honestly, like I'm not trying to sit

646
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 1: here and say like Yonis can do a Yokic impression.

647
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:37,919
Speaker 1: That's not at all what I mean. It's more just

648
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 1: like there scheme consistencies is good in terms of being

649
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 1: able to run certain types of sets, but then also

650
00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 1: there's a lower bar with the bench groups, like Yonis

651
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:49,400
Speaker 1: will also be going against lesser talent, and that's really

652
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:51,880
Speaker 1: the thing is, like can he run a reasonable fact

653
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:55,359
Speaker 1: simile of what Yokic does against lesser talent and still

654
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 1: have some impact? And I do think that he has

655
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 1: the potential to do that. And again, like if there's

656
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:03,359
Speaker 1: a specific set that's getting Jamal good looks because of

657
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 1: the matchup and the scheme that they're running, you can

658
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:07,960
Speaker 1: run that with Yonis and a bench group and still

659
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 1: have some success there.

660
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 2: And some teams a backup center is Trey Lyles.

661
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:14,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's likely, and you just handled the ball.

662
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 2: You're like, hey, all right, sorry, you're giving up sixty pounds.

663
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 2: Good luck down there.

664
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:21,879
Speaker 1: Exactly exactly a couple other small ones, any chance the

665
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:23,720
Speaker 1: Nuggets bring Russell Westbrook back.

666
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:26,119
Speaker 2: I don't think so. I don't see it.

667
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,359
Speaker 1: Is it more of like we have too much guard

668
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:30,440
Speaker 1: depth now or is it like we had the Russ

669
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:31,679
Speaker 1: experience and we're done with it.

670
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:34,320
Speaker 2: What I think it is is that Russ is a

671
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:37,640
Speaker 2: lowed player. Denver had a shallow bench last year. So

672
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 2: you have a guy who makes up the entire personality

673
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 2: of your second unit. That's good because you didn't have

674
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 2: anything else. They do have personality now, they do want continuity.

675
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,719
Speaker 2: Russ changes that. He changes the entire dynamic. And then

676
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:50,480
Speaker 2: on top of that, and I know Russ fans. I

677
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 2: enjoyed Russ. I thought he was phenomenal this last year.

678
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:54,160
Speaker 2: People are going to be mad at me for saying that.

679
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 2: I look at this year. Every team has one guy

680
00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 2: who's sort of like the odd ball to odd character. Yeah,

681
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 2: but he the curveball to the character of the locker.

682
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 2: I don't think never has that this year. Maybe Peyton

683
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 2: Watson he gets an extension this year. We'll see. He's

684
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:08,120
Speaker 2: kind of still coming into his own. But I look

685
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,920
Speaker 2: at that, I go Russ is a curveball, good and bad.

686
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 2: I think Denver looks at it and says there's nine,

687
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 2: ten to eleven guys that can all play at any

688
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:16,800
Speaker 2: given night, and they all want the same thing and

689
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 2: are aiming for the same thing. You bring Russ in,

690
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 2: It's like, okay, everybody change because now we have a

691
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 2: different personality, a different style. I think they enjoyed their

692
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 2: rust experience and I think they're done with it.

693
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 1: They did get the most out of him out of

694
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 1: anybody post primary ball handler Russell Westbrook. I think also,

695
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 1: like just in general, last year, you guys were in

696
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 1: a different position. I remember you came on the show.

697
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 1: We talked before the season, and you like straight up

698
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 1: said before the season, You're like, I don't think we

699
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 1: can win the title this year, and you guys actually

700
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 1: ended up overachieving and getting closer to it than we thought.

701
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 1: You know, But like last year, you guys were in

702
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:49,720
Speaker 1: a situation where high risk, high reward options were like

703
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 1: something you had to consider. This year, we just talked

704
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 1: about it earlier. This might be the best team nicoll

705
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 1: A Yoak which she's ever played with, so like, there's

706
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 1: no need to take a high risk, high reward option

707
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 1: in this particular situation. This question before we zoom out

708
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 1: started talking about the rest of the West. There has

709
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 1: been a narrative surrounding the team, especially with the coaching

710
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:11,480
Speaker 1: change and the idea that the young players were not

711
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 1: being given enough of a leash to show what they

712
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 1: can do. We talked about how two playoff runs ago,

713
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 1: Peyton Watson was like playing extensively down the stretch of

714
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:22,600
Speaker 1: the regular season and then was just like literally not

715
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 1: used against a Minnesota Timberwolves team that was huge and athletic,

716
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 1: and you might have seen some utility in your big

717
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 1: athletic forward that could help the situation. So with the

718
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 1: influx of guys like Bruce Brown, Tim Hardaway Junior, even

719
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 1: the at the Ford spot with the Deron Holmes, are

720
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 1: you worried at all about this potentially taking minutes away

721
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 1: from guys like Jalen Pickett, Julian Strawther, Peyton Watson and

722
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 1: not affecting their development.

723
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 2: Well, let's put Picket to the side, because I just

724
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 2: don't know how much I love the guy. I'm the

725
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 2: biggest Jalen Picket fan in the world, but I just

726
00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 2: don't know if he's in the cards for the Nuggets.

727
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 2: Strather and Hayton Watson and Deron Holmes I guess you

728
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 2: can add him there. Those are the three guys, but

729
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 2: I'm not worried about it because Denver had relied on

730
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 2: those guys to hit in years past, and they don't.

731
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 2: Now Tim Hardway juniors there, Bruce Brown's their balance unis

732
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 2: is there? If those guys don't hit, you're fine. The

733
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 2: problem for me because it's like, did they play the

734
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 2: young guys, would they have won? I don't think so.

735
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 2: But here's what happened. Calvin Booth was very very specific

736
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 2: about what the plan was. We have drafted these young

737
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 2: guys because we have to and we might suffer. He

738
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 2: even came out and said, in the title defense year,

739
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 2: it's gonna be one of our worst years. I don't

740
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 2: know if we're going to defend the title this year,

741
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 2: but we have to use it as an investment. The

742
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 2: Nuggets didn't invest in it, and then it was like, well,

743
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:41,320
Speaker 2: we don't have the flexibility now because and then last

744
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 2: year they signed Zeke Naji or that contract extension or

745
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 2: actually at the same time they signed him, and it

746
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 2: was like, is he an eight million a year player? No,

747
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 2: but let's get him there so we could trade him.

748
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:52,920
Speaker 2: That's our only middle of the road contract. He never played.

749
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 2: So I think what my problem was wasn't play the

750
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 2: young guys. They're good, They're gonna be good. It's the

751
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 2: plan requires those guys to at least betrayed. Yeah, and

752
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 2: they weren't even given a chance. They weren't tradable, and

753
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 2: you didn't win. So it was like to me, you

754
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 2: you lost on both fronts.

755
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 1: So Jalen Pickett obviously, as we talked about most likely

756
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 1: going to be out of the rotation, we talk about

757
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 1: Julian Strather and Peyton Watson. Do you think one of

758
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 1: the do you think Julian gets squeezed in this situation?

759
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 2: So Julian is competing with Tim Hardaway Junior and they

760
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 2: are kind of similar players. Yeah, Tim Hardaway Junior, I

761
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 2: think obviously a veteran, more consistent, even though he fits

762
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:28,480
Speaker 2: funny for a veteran, he's not the most consistent player.

763
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 2: I think he will be when he plays with Jokic,

764
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 2: but Julian Strather is competing with him. I think the

765
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 2: challenge David Adaman has and by the way, the biggest

766
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 2: X factor to me outside of Jamal Murray's just health

767
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 2: and everything.

768
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 1: Else, which is always in next.

769
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:43,960
Speaker 2: David Adaman. We saw him in a playoff run. Awesome.

770
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 2: That's different from managing an eighty two game season, especially

771
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:49,760
Speaker 2: when you talk about ten eleven guys who could rotation.

772
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,600
Speaker 2: How do you manage that? That's its own sort of

773
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 2: challenge of leadership. But to me, Julian Strather is competing

774
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 2: with Tim Hardaway Junior, and I think Tim Hardaway Junior

775
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 2: will have a leg up in it. Adamman's challenge will

776
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 2: be how do you win on both fronts? Tim Martiway

777
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 2: Junior plays, but where do you find minutes for Julian

778
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 2: Strather so that he's not just sitting on the bench

779
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:08,479
Speaker 2: for months on end?

780
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 1: And I wonder if it ends up being because of

781
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 1: how deep they are in other position groups, And with

782
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 1: Cam Johnson, I wonder if they can buy Jamal Murray

783
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 1: more days off, which could be a thing that ends

784
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 1: up allowing for more opportunity for guys like Julian to play.

785
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 1: Like you could argue that with Jamal every time there's

786
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 1: three games in four nights, he just give him a night.

787
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, you almost have to, honestly with him. But with

788
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 2: Peyton Watson though, circling back to him, he's the one

789
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 2: guy I look at it. There's one thing that concerns

790
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:37,240
Speaker 2: me about Denver. It's this, Peyton Watson is the only

791
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 2: defensive player on the bench. Bruce Brown can defend, but

792
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 2: I don't know if he's a stopper. Tim Martiway Junior isn't,

793
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 2: Julian Strawther isn't, Valanciunis isn't. And you have Christian Brown

794
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 2: who's very good against specific types of defenders, and you

795
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 2: have Aaron Gordon who's good. There's a gap in there

796
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 2: that is for Peyton Watson. He has to become playoff

797
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 2: playable for them so that they have all options, they're

798
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 2: versatile enough to guard everybody, and then there's some teams

799
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 2: that you can need all three of them out there

800
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 2: because you you know that you have a lot of

801
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 2: offense that you have to cover. So to me, he's

802
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:09,799
Speaker 2: going to start out as a guy. He's the one

803
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:11,279
Speaker 2: guy that I think has to play through good and

804
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:13,799
Speaker 2: bad games and play every single night because he has

805
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:15,640
Speaker 2: to get to the point where Denverrick can rely on

806
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 2: him in the postseason.

807
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:18,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, he could be an interesting look if you if

808
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:20,759
Speaker 1: you've I mean, I actually I think Christian Brown played

809
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 1: really well. I thought he at in big spots in

810
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:26,920
Speaker 1: important moments in the series. He figured out how to

811
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 1: at least be somewhat effective against Shay at times. I

812
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 1: actually want to talk a little bit about Denver's defense

813
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:34,400
Speaker 1: in a second in that playoff un because thought it

814
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,160
Speaker 1: was fascinating. But Cam, I think could play the two

815
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 1: and so you could see universe, especially with how well

816
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 1: Aaron Gordon shot the ball, where like if you needed

817
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 1: to go super big and athletic, you could theoretically play

818
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 1: a couple of those forwards alongside Jokic with the defense,

819
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:52,279
Speaker 1: I thought it was really fascinating that up until I

820
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:54,799
Speaker 1: can't remember which game it was of the finals, but

821
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:56,560
Speaker 1: there was a point in the finals before I think

822
00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:58,399
Speaker 1: it was before they beat the hell out of them

823
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:02,720
Speaker 1: in Game six, before Indiana beat up Okasee, where Denver

824
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:04,919
Speaker 1: had logged the best defensive rating out of any team

825
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:08,920
Speaker 1: against Oklahoma City. If you had to explain in sixty seconds,

826
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:12,760
Speaker 1: what how Denver managed to get as many stops against

827
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 1: Oklahoma City in that series? How would you break it down?

828
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 2: Well, here's the thing, and well, it's funny that you

829
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:20,719
Speaker 2: mentioned Kawhi Leonard not having a great series, because what

830
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:23,840
Speaker 2: Jokic specifically. I mean Jokic is your anchor on defense

831
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 2: and that he has limitations, but I always said he's

832
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:28,279
Speaker 2: actually a phenomenal defender at a lot of things. He's

833
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:30,239
Speaker 2: really bad the most core thing, which is spread pick

834
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:32,920
Speaker 2: and roll, especially if you can put shooters out there.

835
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:35,879
Speaker 2: Kawhi Leonard doesn't like the spread pick and roll. James

836
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:38,280
Speaker 2: Harden did and he had some really nice games. Jokicic

837
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:40,600
Speaker 2: king guard guys that are trying to iso on the elbow.

838
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 2: He's just smart. He knows how to cut off the

839
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:45,240
Speaker 2: angles and into what you do. Oklahoma City is similar

840
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 2: in this way. They do have a good pick and roll.

841
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:49,319
Speaker 2: But what Denver really did was they threw zones out there.

842
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 1: Yep.

843
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:53,240
Speaker 2: And David Adaman will actually, I should say Andrew Munson,

844
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:55,320
Speaker 2: who's coaching the Summer League team, one of the assistants.

845
00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:59,640
Speaker 2: In the lead up to Summer League said Adamman wants

846
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,399
Speaker 2: experimenting with a lot of things this Summer League because

847
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 2: we're working on some new identities next year. I prided

848
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:05,839
Speaker 2: him on it, Hey, what is that? What is that?

849
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 2: What is that? And he finally let go, well, we're

850
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:09,800
Speaker 2: gonna play a lot of zone in Summer League, and

851
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:11,680
Speaker 2: I thought, man, they ran a lot of zone against

852
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 2: Oklahoma City. They didn't do it a whole lot all year,

853
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:15,440
Speaker 2: although they did do it against Oklahoma City in the

854
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:16,560
Speaker 2: regular season a lot.

855
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:18,840
Speaker 1: And then they did it the two three were they

856
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:20,960
Speaker 1: doubled shave every time across half court. That was a

857
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:21,399
Speaker 1: fun game.

858
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:23,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, they weren't the ones that invented Who is it

859
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:26,319
Speaker 2: that invented that style? And Denver copied it? But yes,

860
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 2: it was.

861
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:27,000
Speaker 1: It was.

862
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 2: It kind of threw them off. They didn't know what

863
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 2: to do in the regular something like that. It was

864
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:34,640
Speaker 2: pretty dominant. So Denver went to zone in the playoffs

865
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 2: and it was very effective. And I think they looked

866
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:38,840
Speaker 2: at that and said, is this less of a gimmick

867
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:40,880
Speaker 2: and more of something we can build our identity on

868
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:45,320
Speaker 2: going forward. And I'm up two minds about that, because

869
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 2: one I do believe and I remember I used to

870
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:48,239
Speaker 2: do a show with George Carl and he was so

871
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:50,759
Speaker 2: big about teams aren't running zone enough. If I was

872
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 2: coaching today, I would be running a lot of zone,

873
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 2: a lot of zone. And George Carl, whatever you think

874
00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:56,759
Speaker 2: of him, very good at forward thinker about where things

875
00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:00,040
Speaker 2: are going. He always was, So Denver's gonna think I

876
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:03,480
Speaker 2: used that, and I'm excited for them to experiment with it.

877
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:06,800
Speaker 2: But also, eighty two games is a long time to scout,

878
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 2: and if they run it all year, I think it

879
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:10,880
Speaker 2: worked as a curveball in the playoffs. You run it

880
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 2: all year, Is that just all right? Denver's his own team,

881
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:14,439
Speaker 2: here's how we do attack it. I don't know, we'll

882
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:14,839
Speaker 2: find out.

883
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:20,080
Speaker 1: Yeah. I like if. I think defensive IQ is an

884
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 1: underrated element of that part of the floor in the

885
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:26,760
Speaker 1: sense that you obviously had Christian Brown and Aaron Gordon,

886
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 1: two players that I think are good defenders on the floor.

887
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:31,840
Speaker 1: But Jamal's smart and he's a little bit of a

888
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:36,520
Speaker 1: defensive playmaker, and so is Jokic, and in general, they

889
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:39,759
Speaker 1: just were a smarter defense than the other teams that

890
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:41,560
Speaker 1: went up against Oklahoma City. And I want to credit

891
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:44,799
Speaker 1: Adaman for this too, because Minnesota and Indiana, their dumbasses

892
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:47,720
Speaker 1: went out there and tried to pick up Shae full court,

893
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 1: which compromised them at the point of attack almost immediately

894
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 1: in every single situation. And there was some success that

895
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:56,200
Speaker 1: Indiana had with their ball pressure and wearing Shaye down

896
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 1: and exposing a little bit of a lack of ball

897
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:01,560
Speaker 1: handling depth for Oklahoma City. For the most part, it

898
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:04,320
Speaker 1: was like abundantly clear, especially with Jada McDaniels, who was

899
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:08,319
Speaker 1: just literally looked lost against Shay in that third round.

900
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 1: But I thought Denver went into the series with the

901
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:15,040
Speaker 1: appropriate pickup point, the mixing up of coverages, the sagging

902
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:17,880
Speaker 1: off and the short closeouts, the passing link closed outs.

903
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 1: They forced Oklahoma City to beat them with their brains.

904
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 1: And they didn't lose that series because they didn't get

905
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 1: enough stops. They lost that series because in the fourth

906
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 1: quarter of Game four and in the fourth quarter of

907
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:33,880
Speaker 1: Game five, nobody showed up offensively other than Yokich and

908
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:36,759
Speaker 1: that ended up being the nail in the coffin. But

909
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 1: like if they get a couple, like if Michael Porter

910
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:41,400
Speaker 1: Junior misses a couple of wide open threes at the

911
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:43,280
Speaker 1: top of the key in Game five, Jamal Murray misses

912
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 1: a wide open three in the right corner in Game

913
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:47,880
Speaker 1: four in a big spot, That's the thing that's exciting

914
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:49,440
Speaker 1: for me as we look forward, they just have so

915
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 1: much more depth offensively and depth in general to where

916
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 1: I don't think they'll wear down at the end of

917
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:55,799
Speaker 1: games the way that they did. But I thought that

918
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 1: they just showed a very intelligent approach defensively to getting

919
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:01,520
Speaker 1: stops insid Oklahoma City team, and I just want to

920
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:03,080
Speaker 1: give them credit for that because, like, I think it's

921
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:05,799
Speaker 1: a proof of concept, so to speak, because Denver was

922
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:08,279
Speaker 1: not just bad defensively to end the season, but like

923
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:11,160
Speaker 1: kind of embarrassing for Denver Nuggets basketball to be as

924
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:11,839
Speaker 1: bad as they were.

925
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:13,919
Speaker 2: This is why you're so good at this. I don't

926
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:15,600
Speaker 2: mean to compliment you on your own show. That's why

927
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:16,960
Speaker 2: you're so good at it because you get to the

928
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:19,279
Speaker 2: heart of something for it. You're watching all these teams.

929
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:20,840
Speaker 2: You're not a Denver guy, but you're getting to the

930
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,359
Speaker 2: heart of like a core identity for Denver. And one

931
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 2: of what I think it is is they are going

932
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:27,720
Speaker 2: to force you to play the game on their terms.

933
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:29,919
Speaker 2: And a lot of people think that of Yokiic's pace,

934
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:31,279
Speaker 2: he's going to slow it down and you're gonna have

935
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:33,799
Speaker 2: to be at his pace. But you said they were

936
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:35,440
Speaker 2: going to make this a mental game. They were going

937
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 2: to say, Okay, we're not good. You're way more athletic,

938
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:39,920
Speaker 2: you're way quicker. So we're going to turn this into

939
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:42,720
Speaker 2: how do we turn this into where we're on level

940
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:45,440
Speaker 2: fit footing and now you're going to have a skill advantage,

941
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:47,840
Speaker 2: but we're going to make this a slow down mental game.

942
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:50,480
Speaker 2: And the zone was a part of that, just you know,

943
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 2: playing low Shaye I had this great staff from Mark

944
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 2: Campbell who said, I'm picking rolls. I think he was

945
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:58,400
Speaker 2: one of the lowest point guards in terms of where

946
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:01,200
Speaker 2: he received screens because he's not a great pull up

947
00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:04,759
Speaker 2: three point shooting threat. So teams would sink and say, hey, no,

948
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:07,239
Speaker 2: you have to pick the screen below the line. Denver

949
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:09,440
Speaker 2: did that as well, and they mixed in some zone

950
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:11,879
Speaker 2: and to me, that was their way of saying, take

951
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 2: everything out. We're playing this style because it's slow and

952
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:17,399
Speaker 2: it's cerebral, and we feel like we can beat you there.

953
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:19,880
Speaker 2: So I think that's part of it. And now they

954
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:22,880
Speaker 2: have a smarter team than ever. And even in that series,

955
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:25,719
Speaker 2: I don't mean to pick on Michael Porter. You have

956
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 2: six great possessions in a row, and one where you

957
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:29,879
Speaker 2: completely screw up and give a layup. That was him

958
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:32,920
Speaker 2: all his whole career. Is that six good possessions one

959
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:34,799
Speaker 2: where you just completely messed up and it's a wide

960
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:37,400
Speaker 2: open dunk. I think just take out those wide open dunks,

961
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:39,319
Speaker 2: take the three or four you give up a game,

962
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 2: erase those and it makes a huge difference on how

963
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:43,320
Speaker 2: effective you are defensively.

964
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:46,240
Speaker 1: The attention to detail I when it comes to especially

965
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:48,680
Speaker 1: big possessions in crunch time, it's actually the higher floor

966
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:50,880
Speaker 1: guys that coaches trust the most. Can I trust you

967
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 1: to be in the right spot, not make a mistake

968
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:56,760
Speaker 1: so that my star and dictate the terms of what happens,

969
00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 1: because I ultimately it is going to be that guy

970
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:00,920
Speaker 1: who ends up determining everything. All right, let's zom out

971
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:04,840
Speaker 1: top of the West right now. According to DraftKings, the

972
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:07,920
Speaker 1: Denver Nuggets have the third best oughts to win the title.

973
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 1: Houston is in second place at plus seven to fifty.

974
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:13,280
Speaker 1: You guys are at plus eight hundred. I think Oklahoma

975
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 1: City is right around like plus two to fifty in

976
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:19,239
Speaker 1: that range. I am very tempted to pick Denver's my

977
00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 1: favorite to win the title. The biggest thing that I

978
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:24,600
Speaker 1: keep coming back to is, I think, separate from anything

979
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 1: having to do with on paper talent, I just think

980
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:30,799
Speaker 1: they match up extremely well with Oklahoma City so I'm

981
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:32,600
Speaker 1: on the fence. I don't know where I'm going to land.

982
00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 1: I'll probably decide when we get closer to October. Make

983
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:39,360
Speaker 1: the case to me for why Denver should be the

984
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:40,799
Speaker 1: team that is favored to win the title.

985
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:42,719
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, I'm going to start by saying this,

986
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:46,600
Speaker 2: I have only once ever picked did the Denver Nuggets

987
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 2: to win an NBA championship, and that was in twenty

988
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:50,920
Speaker 2: twenty three. So I'm one for one on pick it up.

989
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:51,279
Speaker 1: Hell yeah.

990
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 2: Now, I will say, because I heard you say this

991
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:54,319
Speaker 2: on a show the other day, that you're like, this

992
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 2: is a July prediction, We'll have an October. I might

993
00:41:57,160 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 2: make a January, February, March predictions. Then I think it's true.

994
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:01,839
Speaker 2: We're making predictions we don't even know. I faun Chin

995
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:03,960
Speaker 2: is coming over. I think the Nuggets are gonna win

996
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:06,440
Speaker 2: it this year. I think they have everything that it takes.

997
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:09,839
Speaker 2: I just have such faith in Jokic's ability. I happen

998
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:12,319
Speaker 2: to agree with you. I don't know ranking guys number one,

999
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:14,359
Speaker 2: number two offense, I don't know. At a certain point,

1000
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:16,279
Speaker 2: you're just saying, this is a short list of guys

1001
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:18,200
Speaker 2: that are so good that you can't. They can solve

1002
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:20,879
Speaker 2: every problem. Jokic is one of those guys, and he's

1003
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:22,759
Speaker 2: never had a team with this many guys that can

1004
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:25,480
Speaker 2: contribute to his brain. That can be an extension of

1005
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:27,440
Speaker 2: what it is that he's trying to do. So I

1006
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:28,759
Speaker 2: look at that and I agree with you. I mean,

1007
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:30,439
Speaker 2: they gave Oklahoma City trouble and they had the most

1008
00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:32,839
Speaker 2: flawed roster of the last four years, and they still

1009
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:35,320
Speaker 2: gave him a hard time. I think they're going to

1010
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:36,880
Speaker 2: do it again this year, if they can be healthy

1011
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:40,400
Speaker 2: and everything comes together for him. I do think Houston's

1012
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:42,279
Speaker 2: going to be a great regular season team, and I

1013
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:44,919
Speaker 2: think they'll be a good playoff team. I'm skeptical about

1014
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:47,920
Speaker 2: Kevin Durant's ability to make it through four rounds, and

1015
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:50,920
Speaker 2: I'm just skeptical of the accumulation of talent does not

1016
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:53,359
Speaker 2: always equal you know, Oh, this is a great team.

1017
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 2: It's going to have to come together. They might do that.

1018
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:57,799
Speaker 2: I think he Mayadoka is a great coach. Defensively, they

1019
00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:00,840
Speaker 2: certainly did it last year. I don't know. I can't

1020
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:02,719
Speaker 2: see the finish line for Houston the way I can

1021
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:05,200
Speaker 2: for Denver and then Oklahoma City. We know they're great.

1022
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:06,640
Speaker 2: I mean, they've already done it. I think that's going

1023
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:09,160
Speaker 2: to be by far the biggest challenge. But to your point,

1024
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:11,920
Speaker 2: there's something about their style that I think Denver kind

1025
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:14,920
Speaker 2: of understands and can compete with. And there's just no

1026
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:18,359
Speaker 2: solution for Yo Kich Hartenstein's great chedholmgering By like guarded

1027
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:20,080
Speaker 2: him for one game before they said no, we're never

1028
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:22,719
Speaker 2: doing that. Ye switches are we putting you there? So

1029
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:24,200
Speaker 2: I look at that and I just say, you know what,

1030
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:26,000
Speaker 2: that's going to be a great series if we get

1031
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:28,280
Speaker 2: to it. But I think Denver might have the pieces

1032
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:29,160
Speaker 2: to get it done this time.

1033
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:31,520
Speaker 1: Yeah. I keep coming back to a couple different things.

1034
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:34,439
Speaker 1: Joki's best player, and I think he's on a tier

1035
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:36,760
Speaker 1: on it by himself, which I think is a unique

1036
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:40,239
Speaker 1: advantage in the sort of situation. They are the most

1037
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:44,400
Speaker 1: experienced team and have like the best continuity out of

1038
00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:48,279
Speaker 1: the contenders like Oklahoma City. To me, yeah, strangely like

1039
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 1: they they I also think in general that teams can

1040
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:54,319
Speaker 1: scale up more on defense in the playoffs and they

1041
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 1: can scale up on offense. Uh for example, like a

1042
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:02,720
Speaker 1: team like a team like Denver is able to approximate

1043
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:05,560
Speaker 1: a good playoff defense despite no evidence of that during

1044
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:08,000
Speaker 1: the regular season. But you're never going to see a

1045
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:11,359
Speaker 1: team on offense be just like ass all year long

1046
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:13,760
Speaker 1: on offense and then suddenly just start picking teams apart

1047
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:15,520
Speaker 1: when they get into the postseason. And so I think

1048
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:17,320
Speaker 1: that's part of it for me, Like a team like Houston,

1049
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:19,719
Speaker 1: for instance, Like I could see Houston, like if you

1050
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:21,920
Speaker 1: ask me right now, like, how do if Houston loses

1051
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:24,080
Speaker 1: in the playoffs, how does Houston lose in the playoffs?

1052
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:26,760
Speaker 1: They can't score? That's what it is. Kevin Durant faces

1053
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:29,840
Speaker 1: a super physical defender, struggles to get separation as a

1054
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:32,560
Speaker 1: thirty seven year old player at that point in time,

1055
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:35,600
Speaker 1: and he's just not able to do quite enough. And

1056
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:37,719
Speaker 1: the defense is still really good, But so did the

1057
00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:39,799
Speaker 1: great offense that they lost to who scaled up their

1058
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 1: defense and they ended up having an issue. Okloma City,

1059
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:45,200
Speaker 1: to me, still has major offensive warts and experience warts.

1060
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:47,839
Speaker 1: That's kind of the angle that I see them fitting into.

1061
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 1: But now you got me all interested. Before we get

1062
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:51,920
Speaker 1: out of here, I have to just like make the

1063
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:54,520
Speaker 1: case for you why I think Jokic is the best

1064
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:58,360
Speaker 1: offensive player that I've ever seen I think Steph Curry

1065
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:01,759
Speaker 1: is the best advantage creator I've ever seen in the

1066
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:05,520
Speaker 1: sense that just his sheer presence on the court creates

1067
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:09,239
Speaker 1: more openings than any player that I can remember, in

1068
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:11,320
Speaker 1: terms of just like he just breaks the brain of

1069
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:13,239
Speaker 1: every defense that he goes against, and guys start making

1070
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 1: mistakes and jumping out on switches and leaving dudes open,

1071
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:18,279
Speaker 1: and there's dunks and layups that they give up. The

1072
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:21,319
Speaker 1: thing with Steph is Steph was never as reliable as

1073
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:24,360
Speaker 1: the top guys as like a key possession late in

1074
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:26,320
Speaker 1: the game, he needs to get a bucket, the team

1075
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 1: does switch everything correctly. He just was never as good

1076
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:32,360
Speaker 1: at that, and there was a little bit more variance

1077
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:34,480
Speaker 1: being that he's a jump shooter, so he was prone

1078
00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:38,680
Speaker 1: to some cold shooting nights. Lebron to me, was not

1079
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:41,560
Speaker 1: quite as good of an advantage creator as Steph, but

1080
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:44,120
Speaker 1: he was still nearly as good of an offensive player

1081
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:46,640
Speaker 1: because he had the big physicality the ability to get

1082
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:50,000
Speaker 1: to his spots. Jokic, to me, bridges the gap between

1083
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:54,280
Speaker 1: both of those guys. He is a top tier historical

1084
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:56,719
Speaker 1: advantage creator in terms of the ability to break the

1085
00:45:56,760 --> 00:45:59,400
Speaker 1: defense and create all of these openings. He has a

1086
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:02,239
Speaker 1: similar packed to steph for his ability to consistently bring

1087
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:05,560
Speaker 1: the rim protector out to the perimeter inverts the defense

1088
00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:08,560
Speaker 1: to where now there's less size waiting at the rim

1089
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:11,480
Speaker 1: for your cutters and your slashers and your closeout attackers

1090
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:14,719
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. But then he adds to that, this,

1091
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:17,600
Speaker 1: if you let me go one on one and you

1092
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 1: switched everything properly, I have a shot that I can

1093
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 1: get to that I'm going to hit sixty percent of

1094
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:26,719
Speaker 1: the time and there's no variance, and like, like, even

1095
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 1: in the games where he played poorly, like Game four,

1096
00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:30,560
Speaker 1: for instance, down the stretch, he was able to get

1097
00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:32,120
Speaker 1: to the bucket a few times and get a get

1098
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:34,600
Speaker 1: a couple, like makeuple shots for him. And so to me,

1099
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:38,080
Speaker 1: like he brings the best combination of indomitable on an

1100
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:42,320
Speaker 1: island scoring but like defense breaking, advantage creation, and that

1101
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:45,200
Speaker 1: to me like puts him. I just can't ever remember

1102
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:47,840
Speaker 1: watching a player that had that same impact on a defense.

1103
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:51,560
Speaker 2: You made a great case. I like it. I mean, look,

1104
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:54,440
Speaker 2: here's how I feel about Jokich. He's the only to

1105
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:57,640
Speaker 2: the not the only, more so than any other player,

1106
00:46:57,800 --> 00:47:01,800
Speaker 2: including Lebron, there is no defense for him like whatever

1107
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:05,120
Speaker 2: you do, because he has every skill, so every defense

1108
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 2: is a compromise to something else. And there's a lot

1109
00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:09,839
Speaker 2: of teams where even Lebron and his heyday, it was, well,

1110
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:11,439
Speaker 2: we're gonna force him in to submit range, we're gonna

1111
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:12,839
Speaker 2: run him off the line, we're gonna protect the pain,

1112
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:16,080
Speaker 2: We're gonna do this that Jokic is comfortable with literally everything.

1113
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:19,080
Speaker 2: The question is he's a team player. He's, as they

1114
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:22,080
Speaker 2: called Steph, a collaborative superstar, and so you need the

1115
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:24,279
Speaker 2: guys around him who can complete the players, because sometimes

1116
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:26,239
Speaker 2: the right play is to drag things over and then

1117
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:28,200
Speaker 2: find the open guy. I just don't think he has

1118
00:47:28,239 --> 00:47:31,000
Speaker 2: any weaknesses. I tell people I think they say best

1119
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:33,160
Speaker 2: passing big man of all time. He's an steer passer.

1120
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:34,920
Speaker 2: I mean he's a top five passer I think of

1121
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:37,480
Speaker 2: all time. And then it's not his number one skill.

1122
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:41,279
Speaker 2: His number one skill is probably his touch from floater zone. Yeah,

1123
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:43,960
Speaker 2: I mean it's he's ten percentage points better than average

1124
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:45,960
Speaker 2: from that spot and he can get to there anytime.

1125
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:48,640
Speaker 2: And then the third skill he has that's also probably

1126
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:51,719
Speaker 2: number one all time or at least on a short list,

1127
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:53,880
Speaker 2: is he has the best hands I've ever seen, every

1128
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:56,920
Speaker 2: loose ball, every pass of defensibody, you could throw it.

1129
00:47:56,920 --> 00:47:58,160
Speaker 2: I mean, this is why Russ was so good. With

1130
00:47:58,400 --> 00:47:59,759
Speaker 2: one of the reasons Russ was so good, he throw

1131
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:02,160
Speaker 2: a ninety mile per hour pass for from me to you,

1132
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:05,000
Speaker 2: we are whip a pass like that and Yepe just

1133
00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:08,000
Speaker 2: would grab it out of nowhere and finish it. So

1134
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:10,080
Speaker 2: he has three skills to me that he might be

1135
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:12,400
Speaker 2: number one all time in or at least has a

1136
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 2: case for it. And he can do everything, so it's

1137
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:17,200
Speaker 2: a strong case. Here's where I disagree her. Here's where

1138
00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:21,600
Speaker 2: I go different the goat conversation of the greatest or

1139
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:23,359
Speaker 2: any of those types of things. Basketball is such a

1140
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:26,200
Speaker 2: diverse game. It's such a wide game that there's so

1141
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:28,080
Speaker 2: many different ways to dominate. I think there were guys

1142
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:30,560
Speaker 2: who were more individually like the thing they did best.

1143
00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:34,000
Speaker 2: There were guys that were better at that than Yokicha's

1144
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:36,080
Speaker 2: at any one thing. So if you had to, if

1145
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:38,440
Speaker 2: you could press that advantage, it was like, Yeah, that's

1146
00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:41,760
Speaker 2: the most dominant thing I've ever seen. And so there's

1147
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:44,160
Speaker 2: that way to win. There's oh, I can do more

1148
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:46,600
Speaker 2: different types of winning and then the last thing is

1149
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:49,000
Speaker 2: the game is just so different. I mean, this is

1150
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:51,440
Speaker 2: what makes Lebron so incredible. As he came in two

1151
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:53,160
Speaker 2: thousand and three, he was on TRL. I saw this

1152
00:48:53,239 --> 00:48:55,080
Speaker 2: on Twitter the other day, which is great. I don't

1153
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:56,520
Speaker 2: think anybody listening to the show he even knows what

1154
00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:59,160
Speaker 2: TRL is. It was a cable show from thirty years ago.

1155
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:01,160
Speaker 1: I don't know elis.

1156
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:05,640
Speaker 2: He was on TRL and MTV twenty five years ago

1157
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:07,919
Speaker 2: and he's still playing in the NBA. And he went

1158
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:11,719
Speaker 2: from those Piston Spurs era grinded out. You know, he

1159
00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:16,600
Speaker 2: played with Verajao and Jerkaskas at the same time, and

1160
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:18,880
Speaker 2: then he evolved at all these different evolutions and his

1161
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:21,680
Speaker 2: skill set fits all of it. I think Jokic is

1162
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:24,320
Speaker 2: standing on the shoulders of giants both from the NBA

1163
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:27,640
Speaker 2: history but also from European history, and it's just hard

1164
00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:30,680
Speaker 2: to compare and say, what would of a lot of

1165
00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:34,520
Speaker 2: these guys done if they Jokic learned the game from

1166
00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:36,120
Speaker 2: them and then built on top of it in a

1167
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:38,760
Speaker 2: way that I think is underrated how much he's added

1168
00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:41,399
Speaker 2: to the game. I mean Jokic coming into the league

1169
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:43,760
Speaker 2: and what he's added, even though you don't have another Jokic.

1170
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:47,120
Speaker 2: The game has changed in how the coaches think about

1171
00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:49,439
Speaker 2: it because of his impact, and so it's so hard

1172
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:51,680
Speaker 2: to compare guys that didn't have that advantage. They stand

1173
00:49:51,719 --> 00:49:52,440
Speaker 2: on his shoulders.

1174
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:54,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it's been fascinating. I had a mailbag

1175
00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:56,319
Speaker 1: question the other day where someone was like, why does

1176
00:49:56,520 --> 00:50:00,719
Speaker 1: nobody high volume post up anymore in the NBA? And

1177
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:02,040
Speaker 1: there's like a kas I'm like you, if you look

1178
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:05,640
Speaker 1: at Yokic's posts, if you just like sorted all players

1179
00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:07,680
Speaker 1: in the NBA by the number of post ups they run,

1180
00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:10,319
Speaker 1: Jokic is just on a It doesn't even look right.

1181
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:13,799
Speaker 1: He's like off the chart. And I've always I kept

1182
00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:16,200
Speaker 1: obviously on the spot had to come up with an answer,

1183
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:19,239
Speaker 1: and when I immediately went to was like NBA defenses

1184
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:21,840
Speaker 1: are so sophisticated now with their ability to shrink the

1185
00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:25,239
Speaker 1: floor and to make things feel tight on a post up,

1186
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:26,880
Speaker 1: Like I watched this with Anthony Davis for years. I

1187
00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:28,719
Speaker 1: watched Laker fans be like, why don't they force the

1188
00:50:28,719 --> 00:50:30,359
Speaker 1: ball to Anthony to I'll tell you exactly why they

1189
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:32,279
Speaker 1: didn't force the ball Anthony Davis because he'd get down

1190
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:34,719
Speaker 1: there and they would load up the strong side and

1191
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:36,520
Speaker 1: the open man would be in the weak side corner,

1192
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:38,160
Speaker 1: and he was just unable to get the ball there

1193
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:39,840
Speaker 1: in a way to where he actually had an advantage

1194
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:42,760
Speaker 1: he could attack attack there, And so as a result,

1195
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:45,040
Speaker 1: like there's just like I was watching DeAndre Ayton footage,

1196
00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:47,120
Speaker 1: you know, obviously scouting him for the Lakers, and like

1197
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:49,400
Speaker 1: if you watch Ayton's post ups, he just like doesn't

1198
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:52,040
Speaker 1: know what's happening around elsewhere on the floor while he's

1199
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:55,520
Speaker 1: down there. And like Jokic just has that like court

1200
00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:58,239
Speaker 1: awareness level one hundred to where like you didn't even

1201
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:00,160
Speaker 1: have to look to know where help defenders are, and

1202
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:02,040
Speaker 1: he's just is always aware of what's happening around him,

1203
00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:05,719
Speaker 1: and so he can actually abuse size mismatches and take

1204
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:08,040
Speaker 1: advantage of where the opening is in the defense in

1205
00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:12,400
Speaker 1: a very sophisticated era of NBA defense. And it just

1206
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:14,040
Speaker 1: to me has been the seperator.

1207
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:16,400
Speaker 2: And this is like some fun because we're both basketball players.

1208
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:18,759
Speaker 2: So I think you might resonate with this when you're

1209
00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:21,520
Speaker 2: playing not just pick up a really more structured game

1210
00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:24,120
Speaker 2: and you get the ball in the post, what direction

1211
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:26,400
Speaker 2: or what kind of move? At least for me that

1212
00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:28,120
Speaker 2: I'm going to try to attack with has a lot

1213
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:29,960
Speaker 2: to do with how I'm being guarded and where the

1214
00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:32,480
Speaker 2: help is because and this is what Yokis does every

1215
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:34,719
Speaker 2: single time. It's Okay, I see this guy over here,

1216
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:36,640
Speaker 2: so I'm going to make the move towards the center

1217
00:51:36,680 --> 00:51:38,080
Speaker 2: of the paint because I want him to be the

1218
00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:39,920
Speaker 2: help guy. And this is what he's doing all the time.

1219
00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:41,520
Speaker 2: He is like, I'm attacking here. Oh he's not helping

1220
00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:43,080
Speaker 2: all right, I got to my spot or I spun

1221
00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:45,839
Speaker 2: the other direction. And that's what he's doing every single time.

1222
00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:47,760
Speaker 2: So when people say they can't post up or these numbers,

1223
00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:48,440
Speaker 2: I always look at it.

1224
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:48,560
Speaker 1: Go.

1225
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:51,799
Speaker 2: This game was straight up. Nobody helped. Nobody. Doubles would

1226
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:54,440
Speaker 2: have a one point nine points per possession on post up.

1227
00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:57,120
Speaker 2: But he's not just going to score. He's going to

1228
00:51:57,200 --> 00:51:59,840
Speaker 2: just read and he's constantly manipult. Everything he does is

1229
00:51:59,840 --> 00:52:02,640
Speaker 2: to manipulate somebody else on the court. And it's fun

1230
00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:04,239
Speaker 2: when you watch it over and over again, you see

1231
00:52:04,239 --> 00:52:05,560
Speaker 2: it more and more and you're like, this is fun

1232
00:52:05,560 --> 00:52:07,359
Speaker 2: to watch. Man. It's just a cat and mouse game

1233
00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:09,719
Speaker 2: with all five guys, and all five guys are kind

1234
00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:11,440
Speaker 2: of sitting there a second behind him, going like, am

1235
00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:13,680
Speaker 2: I doing the right thing? Am I wait? Nope? Oh

1236
00:52:13,719 --> 00:52:15,080
Speaker 2: he was attacking me yep, my bed.

1237
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:18,520
Speaker 1: It's so funny because I in general, over the years,

1238
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:22,320
Speaker 1: different players resonate with me more or less than others,

1239
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:26,840
Speaker 1: Like I have grown to enjoy watching Steph Curry so much,

1240
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:30,360
Speaker 1: but then like Shake Gils Alexander, for instance, it's I

1241
00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:33,520
Speaker 1: don't enjoy watching him play basketball as much even Luca,

1242
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:36,520
Speaker 1: And I'm a believer in Luca's talent, I don't think

1243
00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:41,200
Speaker 1: Luca would derive the same reaction from Timartway Junior and

1244
00:52:41,239 --> 00:52:43,440
Speaker 1: Cam Johnson playing with now they would be like, yeah,

1245
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:44,879
Speaker 1: we're gonna get some open looks, but they're not gonna

1246
00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:48,000
Speaker 1: enjoy playing in that system as much because Joki is

1247
00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:50,520
Speaker 1: very much a collaborative talent in the sense that his

1248
00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:53,480
Speaker 1: success comes in ball, in player movement, whereas for Luca

1249
00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:55,640
Speaker 1: it comes in pounding the air out of the basketball

1250
00:52:55,680 --> 00:52:57,359
Speaker 1: and passing with four seconds left on the shot clock

1251
00:52:57,400 --> 00:53:01,000
Speaker 1: to an open shooter. And I just I thought that

1252
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:04,560
Speaker 1: that clip that you shared of those guys reacting is

1253
00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:07,800
Speaker 1: just is like the embodiment of the Yokic experience. You

1254
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:10,400
Speaker 1: watch him and you just smile because it's beautiful basketball.

1255
00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:12,360
Speaker 2: I get to participate in it, not to be the

1256
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:14,719
Speaker 2: recipient of it. I get to participate in it. And

1257
00:53:14,719 --> 00:53:17,360
Speaker 2: I think for a guy like Tim Hardaway Junior that especially,

1258
00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:19,200
Speaker 2: I think that's what he's looking forward to, and it's

1259
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:20,960
Speaker 2: one of the reasons I think he of everyone is

1260
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:23,000
Speaker 2: gonna benefit because it's not just standing on the corner.

1261
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:24,600
Speaker 2: It's hey, come run some pick and roll with me.

1262
00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:27,200
Speaker 2: I'll read what's going on. I'm gonna flip the screen.

1263
00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:29,759
Speaker 2: I'm gonna slip it whatever it is, and it's like

1264
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:30,640
Speaker 2: you're involved in it.

1265
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:33,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, Adam, I sincerely appreciate you taking the time. Tell

1266
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:34,760
Speaker 1: everybody where they can find your work.

1267
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:37,239
Speaker 2: All NBA Show with me and Tim Legler and then

1268
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:39,480
Speaker 2: d if you're interested in more Nuggets coverage five times

1269
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:41,680
Speaker 2: a week with d NVR Nuggets. We have fun over

1270
00:53:41,719 --> 00:53:44,439
Speaker 2: there and we have some I think Bruce Brown's gonna

1271
00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:45,880
Speaker 2: come on sometime in the next week or two, so

1272
00:53:45,880 --> 00:53:47,839
Speaker 2: we're gonna have some cool some of the new guys

1273
00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:48,279
Speaker 2: hopping on.

1274
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:51,160
Speaker 1: That's awesome. I really appreciate you coming on the show. Everybody.

1275
00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:52,920
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for sporting shout out to Serious

1276
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:54,640
Speaker 1: XM for taking care of us here at the studio

1277
00:53:55,040 --> 00:53:57,360
Speaker 1: at the win. We will be back tomorrow night with

1278
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Speaker 1: some more Summer League reaction. I'll see you guys then.

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Speaker 1: What's up guys. As always, I appreciate you for listening

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Speaker 1: to and supporting Hoops tonight. It would actually be really

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Speaker 1: helpful for us if you guys would take a second

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Speaker 1: and leave a rating and a review. As always, I

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Speaker 1: appreciate you guys supporting us, but if you could take

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Speaker 1: a minute to do that, I'd really appreciate it. The

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Speaker 1: volume