1 00:00:15,276 --> 00:00:24,836 Speaker 1: Pushkin early nineteen sixty five, Harold Silvester was a sixteen 2 00:00:24,956 --> 00:00:29,836 Speaker 1: year old basketball star in a segregated New Orleans school system. 3 00:00:29,876 --> 00:00:33,636 Speaker 1: He played for Saint Augustine High School. They were the 4 00:00:33,676 --> 00:00:37,036 Speaker 1: best high school basketball team in Louisiana, at least the 5 00:00:37,076 --> 00:00:40,276 Speaker 1: best in the league for black kids. They never faced 6 00:00:40,316 --> 00:00:42,196 Speaker 1: the white kids, so no one can actually say who 7 00:00:42,276 --> 00:00:45,236 Speaker 1: was the best. But the priests who ran Saint Ogg 8 00:00:45,356 --> 00:00:48,676 Speaker 1: were pushing for integration. They wanted to challenge the state's 9 00:00:48,676 --> 00:00:53,636 Speaker 1: best white team, Jesuit High also in New Orleans. And finally, 10 00:00:54,316 --> 00:00:58,516 Speaker 1: our principal advice principle, we're able to negotiate this game. 11 00:00:59,196 --> 00:01:02,836 Speaker 1: That's Harold talking about one of the most intense basketball 12 00:01:02,916 --> 00:01:06,476 Speaker 1: games ever played. You know, we played on a Friday. 13 00:01:07,036 --> 00:01:11,516 Speaker 1: Malcolm X was assassinated that Monday, you know, and we're 14 00:01:11,556 --> 00:01:16,076 Speaker 1: playing and what our skunsilers the first integrated athletic contest 15 00:01:16,356 --> 00:01:19,436 Speaker 1: in the history of the state of Louisia. Yeah, so 16 00:01:19,476 --> 00:01:23,636 Speaker 1: I had that kind of cloud, you know over it. 17 00:01:24,356 --> 00:01:27,236 Speaker 1: Some of the white parents protested, and two of the 18 00:01:27,316 --> 00:01:31,116 Speaker 1: Jesuit starters refused to play. The priests decided that they 19 00:01:31,116 --> 00:01:33,916 Speaker 1: needed to play the game in an empty gym nobody 20 00:01:33,996 --> 00:01:37,756 Speaker 1: was invited except parents and faculty, you know, So that 21 00:01:38,476 --> 00:01:42,076 Speaker 1: was a kind of sparse crowd. It was the sort 22 00:01:42,116 --> 00:01:45,196 Speaker 1: of game that they make movies about, and they did 23 00:01:45,756 --> 00:01:51,316 Speaker 1: much later. It was called passing Glory. So we'll scrolling 24 00:01:51,396 --> 00:01:54,156 Speaker 1: you people out there and fall fall, the fall, and 25 00:01:54,196 --> 00:01:57,956 Speaker 1: you gotta put it in you playing these guys. Then 26 00:01:57,996 --> 00:02:01,356 Speaker 1: how come you're playing I'm like they made out of porcela. 27 00:02:01,996 --> 00:02:04,076 Speaker 1: You scared to bump up against the Mics team. Let 28 00:02:04,156 --> 00:02:07,356 Speaker 1: me tell you something, they don't rob off. Harold Sylvester 29 00:02:07,596 --> 00:02:09,836 Speaker 1: was one of the biggest players on his team and 30 00:02:09,996 --> 00:02:14,636 Speaker 1: the best. He usually did the intimidating, but the white 31 00:02:14,676 --> 00:02:17,796 Speaker 1: guy who was guarding him was a different beast. Billy 32 00:02:17,836 --> 00:02:21,836 Speaker 1: Fitzgerald was his name. Harold knew him by reputation. I 33 00:02:21,956 --> 00:02:25,476 Speaker 1: certainly knew who he was, Yeah, because he was you know, 34 00:02:25,676 --> 00:02:27,316 Speaker 1: he had a couple of other cats, you know, were 35 00:02:27,876 --> 00:02:30,516 Speaker 1: the big guys. Man. It didn't matter that there was 36 00:02:30,556 --> 00:02:34,236 Speaker 1: no crowd. Billy Fitzgerald played like the whole world was watching, 37 00:02:35,036 --> 00:02:37,916 Speaker 1: with a fearlessness Harold had never seen. He was among 38 00:02:38,236 --> 00:02:42,036 Speaker 1: the toughest players I've ever played. Kids. You know, you 39 00:02:42,116 --> 00:02:45,116 Speaker 1: know that once his mind is on something, he's on 40 00:02:45,236 --> 00:02:48,996 Speaker 1: the lenny. When you say he was tough, like, what 41 00:02:49,036 --> 00:02:51,196 Speaker 1: do you mean? Like? Was he physical? What was it 42 00:02:51,316 --> 00:02:54,236 Speaker 1: like to be against him? Anyway you can think it tough? 43 00:02:54,796 --> 00:02:58,836 Speaker 1: Was Bill Fitzgerald? His demeanor, the look on his face 44 00:02:59,156 --> 00:03:05,076 Speaker 1: always felt like he was going to bite your head off. No, no, 45 00:03:05,076 --> 00:03:08,796 Speaker 1: no question. You know, if the competition with Billy, you 46 00:03:08,796 --> 00:03:11,156 Speaker 1: know you in for sight of your life. I don't 47 00:03:11,156 --> 00:03:18,076 Speaker 1: know how to better characterize the same. Two black priests 48 00:03:18,076 --> 00:03:20,396 Speaker 1: who set up the basketball game against the white kids 49 00:03:20,396 --> 00:03:23,636 Speaker 1: had a plan for Harold Sylvester to integrate big time 50 00:03:23,716 --> 00:03:27,676 Speaker 1: Southern college basketball. Tulane University had never had a black 51 00:03:27,676 --> 00:03:31,396 Speaker 1: basketball player. There was still a wall between black athletes 52 00:03:31,436 --> 00:03:34,956 Speaker 1: and white southern college sports. The priests wanted Harold to 53 00:03:34,956 --> 00:03:37,476 Speaker 1: help knock it down. But when he got to the 54 00:03:37,476 --> 00:03:41,116 Speaker 1: other side, he found something more intimidating than the color barrier. 55 00:03:41,916 --> 00:03:45,716 Speaker 1: He found Billy Fitzgerald, the intense white guy from the 56 00:03:45,796 --> 00:03:48,756 Speaker 1: Jesuit High school, had gone on to play for Tulane. 57 00:03:49,676 --> 00:03:53,916 Speaker 1: Now they were teammates, and being Billy Fitzgerald's teammate was 58 00:03:53,956 --> 00:03:57,316 Speaker 1: almost worse than playing against him, because now he was 59 00:03:57,356 --> 00:04:00,836 Speaker 1: wearing you out every day. There were two anything that 60 00:04:00,916 --> 00:04:07,796 Speaker 1: books to make sure that you were playing you're very best. Yeah. 61 00:04:07,836 --> 00:04:12,036 Speaker 1: He always assisted that you you're all you know. And 62 00:04:12,076 --> 00:04:14,596 Speaker 1: I think those of us to put alongside of him 63 00:04:14,796 --> 00:04:19,076 Speaker 1: as well as against him, you always respected that. If 64 00:04:19,156 --> 00:04:21,756 Speaker 1: Dylan was a wild he gave it everything you heared. 65 00:04:23,076 --> 00:04:27,236 Speaker 1: So he had the capacity to scare his teammates. You did. 66 00:04:30,236 --> 00:04:32,796 Speaker 1: I've got a special interest in Billy Fitzgerald, as you 67 00:04:32,876 --> 00:04:36,476 Speaker 1: might be guessing, But Harold Silvester is his own story too. 68 00:04:36,996 --> 00:04:39,436 Speaker 1: After Tulane, he left New Orleans and made a career 69 00:04:39,436 --> 00:04:42,356 Speaker 1: as an actor. You've seen him in something an officer 70 00:04:42,356 --> 00:04:46,236 Speaker 1: and a gentleman maybe or married with children. In nineteen 71 00:04:46,316 --> 00:04:49,076 Speaker 1: ninety nine, he wrote the script for Passing Glory, the 72 00:04:49,196 --> 00:04:53,036 Speaker 1: movie about that basketball game played without a crowd. The 73 00:04:53,116 --> 00:04:56,636 Speaker 1: movie took certain liberties, like just about every film set 74 00:04:56,636 --> 00:04:59,436 Speaker 1: in New Orleans, the actors all sound like they're from Mississippi, 75 00:04:59,876 --> 00:05:02,116 Speaker 1: and there seemed to him to be no way to 76 00:05:02,196 --> 00:05:05,396 Speaker 1: capture the intensity of the character based on Billy Fitzgerald. 77 00:05:06,276 --> 00:05:09,516 Speaker 1: So Harold and Ventnor for him a scary racist dad. 78 00:05:09,796 --> 00:05:12,516 Speaker 1: You get off that floss on someone for him to fight? 79 00:05:13,156 --> 00:05:15,956 Speaker 1: Are you coming? Or do I have to drag you off. 80 00:05:18,556 --> 00:05:22,396 Speaker 1: But I check go through life, you know, without talking 81 00:05:22,436 --> 00:05:25,196 Speaker 1: about the tough people that I've known, you know, and 82 00:05:25,276 --> 00:05:28,836 Speaker 1: he is amongst the toughest. And so so when I 83 00:05:29,156 --> 00:05:33,476 Speaker 1: leave that to plug into that tough reservoir, I go 84 00:05:33,516 --> 00:05:36,876 Speaker 1: to Bill Fitzgerald. You know, he's not a forgettable guy. 85 00:05:37,716 --> 00:05:41,996 Speaker 1: Not a forgettable guy. Harold assumed that Billy Fitzgerald would 86 00:05:41,996 --> 00:05:45,196 Speaker 1: go on to become a professional athlete. If I told 87 00:05:45,236 --> 00:05:46,876 Speaker 1: you he was going to end up being a high 88 00:05:46,876 --> 00:05:50,756 Speaker 1: school coach, would that have surprised you? It would have, 89 00:05:51,316 --> 00:05:54,916 Speaker 1: But you could imagine it. I can imagine, and I 90 00:05:54,956 --> 00:05:57,836 Speaker 1: can imagine if I knew how tough he was, then 91 00:05:58,636 --> 00:06:01,116 Speaker 1: I would have gone somewhere else, to school, that is, 92 00:06:01,156 --> 00:06:03,956 Speaker 1: to any school where Billy Fitzgerald was not the coach. 93 00:06:04,756 --> 00:06:12,876 Speaker 1: Harold knew enough to be scared. I did not. I'm 94 00:06:12,876 --> 00:06:16,956 Speaker 1: Michael Lewis, and this is against the Rules. A show 95 00:06:16,996 --> 00:06:21,396 Speaker 1: about various authority figures in American life. This season is 96 00:06:21,436 --> 00:06:25,316 Speaker 1: about the rise of coaches. This episode is about the 97 00:06:25,316 --> 00:06:28,396 Speaker 1: power of a coach to change a life, in this 98 00:06:28,436 --> 00:07:08,356 Speaker 1: case mine the winner of nineteen seventy three. Billy Fitzgerald 99 00:07:08,356 --> 00:07:11,676 Speaker 1: takes us by some prize we know nothing about him 100 00:07:11,716 --> 00:07:14,236 Speaker 1: except that he plays baseball for an Oakland A's minor 101 00:07:14,316 --> 00:07:17,956 Speaker 1: league team. Yes, baseball, but for some reason, he's spending 102 00:07:17,996 --> 00:07:21,476 Speaker 1: the offseason coaching eighth grade boys basketball at our school. 103 00:07:22,436 --> 00:07:25,756 Speaker 1: Our practices are easy, sort of like recess. The eighth 104 00:07:25,756 --> 00:07:32,596 Speaker 1: graders practices are not. Coach Fitzgerald is this six foot 105 00:07:32,636 --> 00:07:34,916 Speaker 1: four inch man with the face of a street fighter. 106 00:07:35,756 --> 00:07:38,756 Speaker 1: He hollers at the eighth graders for three straight hours, 107 00:07:39,236 --> 00:07:42,916 Speaker 1: then runs them till they drop. As they lay gasping 108 00:07:42,956 --> 00:07:45,756 Speaker 1: around his feet, he pulls a book from his back 109 00:07:45,796 --> 00:07:50,036 Speaker 1: pocket and reads them quotes from Bobby Knight, the scary 110 00:07:50,076 --> 00:07:53,356 Speaker 1: basketball coach of the Indiana Hoosiers. Let you hear, Let 111 00:07:53,436 --> 00:07:57,516 Speaker 1: you hear. Bobby Knight just threw his chair were across 112 00:07:57,556 --> 00:08:00,876 Speaker 1: a three throw line. There's a good chance Bobby Knights, 113 00:08:00,876 --> 00:08:05,916 Speaker 1: but a jackets this basketball game. Seventh graders all know 114 00:08:05,996 --> 00:08:08,916 Speaker 1: who Bobby Knight is, but this new coach seems bigger 115 00:08:08,956 --> 00:08:13,156 Speaker 1: and scarier. After a few days, one of my teammates says, 116 00:08:13,596 --> 00:08:15,876 Speaker 1: oh God, please don't ever let me get to the 117 00:08:15,916 --> 00:08:20,356 Speaker 1: eighth grade. But eighth grade is inevitable. So is Billy Fitzgerald. 118 00:08:20,796 --> 00:08:23,156 Speaker 1: He and his wife have a son and decide that 119 00:08:23,196 --> 00:08:25,636 Speaker 1: minor league baseball is no place to raise a child. 120 00:08:26,596 --> 00:08:29,076 Speaker 1: We don't know any of that. We don't know about 121 00:08:29,076 --> 00:08:30,916 Speaker 1: the wife, we don't know about the kid. All we 122 00:08:30,996 --> 00:08:33,436 Speaker 1: know is that this terrifying man is no longer the 123 00:08:33,476 --> 00:08:37,076 Speaker 1: eighth grade coach, but the head baseball and basketball coach 124 00:08:37,116 --> 00:08:41,156 Speaker 1: at our high school. The Isidore Newman School. Newman's one 125 00:08:41,196 --> 00:08:44,396 Speaker 1: of those small, wealthy private schools that every American city 126 00:08:44,436 --> 00:08:48,196 Speaker 1: has at least two of, one of them called Country Day. 127 00:08:48,956 --> 00:08:52,036 Speaker 1: Our school is not the most obvious place to create 128 00:08:52,076 --> 00:08:55,716 Speaker 1: a training camp for Spartan Warriors, but that's what this 129 00:08:55,756 --> 00:09:01,276 Speaker 1: new coach sets out to do. I'm not going to 130 00:09:01,316 --> 00:09:03,756 Speaker 1: tell you everything that happened over the next five years, 131 00:09:04,196 --> 00:09:06,316 Speaker 1: in part because I've already written a little book about 132 00:09:06,316 --> 00:09:09,516 Speaker 1: it called Coach. But I want to tell you two 133 00:09:09,556 --> 00:09:17,036 Speaker 1: stories incidents, really, just to give you a flavor. First incident. 134 00:09:18,156 --> 00:09:21,596 Speaker 1: It's two years later, and Billy Fitzgerald has just become 135 00:09:21,676 --> 00:09:25,596 Speaker 1: my coach. I'm now fourteen years old and a total mess. 136 00:09:25,996 --> 00:09:29,596 Speaker 1: To say that I'm troubled isn't quite right. Inert is 137 00:09:29,636 --> 00:09:32,756 Speaker 1: more like it. My teachers can't understand why I have 138 00:09:32,996 --> 00:09:36,116 Speaker 1: zero interests in what they're saying. My own mother one 139 00:09:36,156 --> 00:09:38,796 Speaker 1: day breaks down and more or less admits that I'm 140 00:09:38,836 --> 00:09:42,836 Speaker 1: ruining her life. And my mom's great. It's not her fault. 141 00:09:43,516 --> 00:09:46,516 Speaker 1: I just don't much care about anything except performing the 142 00:09:46,516 --> 00:09:50,196 Speaker 1: occasional acts of vandalism. The only human being on the 143 00:09:50,276 --> 00:09:52,956 Speaker 1: planet that I don't feel I can safely ignore is 144 00:09:52,996 --> 00:09:59,756 Speaker 1: my baseball coach. I'd quit playing baseball a few years earlier, 145 00:09:59,756 --> 00:10:01,876 Speaker 1: but Fitz found me at school one day and asked 146 00:10:01,876 --> 00:10:04,516 Speaker 1: me to come out for his summer team. I'm one 147 00:10:04,516 --> 00:10:06,796 Speaker 1: of the younger players, and he's new to me. He's 148 00:10:06,836 --> 00:10:09,796 Speaker 1: indeed tough, He's indeed scary when he wants to be. 149 00:10:10,756 --> 00:10:13,196 Speaker 1: He suspends kids who break the rules, no matter how 150 00:10:13,196 --> 00:10:16,076 Speaker 1: good they are. He never lays a hand on a player, 151 00:10:16,396 --> 00:10:19,356 Speaker 1: but he breaks all kinds of things, especially after games 152 00:10:19,356 --> 00:10:22,556 Speaker 1: that don't go well. No object in the locker room 153 00:10:22,636 --> 00:10:25,596 Speaker 1: is safe. He destroys an ancient wall clock with a 154 00:10:25,676 --> 00:10:28,556 Speaker 1: catcher's mitt and a big orange water jug with a 155 00:10:28,636 --> 00:10:31,796 Speaker 1: single swing of an aluminum bat. He takes us out 156 00:10:31,796 --> 00:10:34,276 Speaker 1: onto a hard field at ten o'clock at night after 157 00:10:34,316 --> 00:10:37,796 Speaker 1: a game. There we slide until our uniforms are red 158 00:10:37,796 --> 00:10:41,076 Speaker 1: and brown with dirt and blood. Then he declares that 159 00:10:41,116 --> 00:10:44,236 Speaker 1: they aren't to be washed until we meet his expectations. 160 00:10:45,156 --> 00:10:48,556 Speaker 1: Ten games later. Our uniforms are so filthy that people 161 00:10:48,556 --> 00:10:51,556 Speaker 1: will come to our games just to see them. We 162 00:10:51,596 --> 00:10:54,436 Speaker 1: look less like a team than a cult of insane 163 00:10:54,516 --> 00:11:00,196 Speaker 1: rich kids who refuse to bathe. But now, once, and 164 00:11:00,276 --> 00:11:03,316 Speaker 1: I really mean not once, do I have the feeling 165 00:11:03,396 --> 00:11:06,276 Speaker 1: that this was about anything but me and my teammates. 166 00:11:07,556 --> 00:11:11,196 Speaker 1: Coach Fitz never talks about himself. He never tells us 167 00:11:11,196 --> 00:11:13,036 Speaker 1: how close he got to playing in the big leagues 168 00:11:13,076 --> 00:11:16,476 Speaker 1: for the Oakland A's, for example, other people talk about it. 169 00:11:16,916 --> 00:11:20,516 Speaker 1: His young players spend lots of time swapping stories about him, 170 00:11:21,036 --> 00:11:25,476 Speaker 1: crazy stories which everyone repeats his gospel. Then, in high school, 171 00:11:25,476 --> 00:11:28,236 Speaker 1: Fits refused to ride the team bus after they lost 172 00:11:28,516 --> 00:11:31,076 Speaker 1: and instead walked many miles across the city of New 173 00:11:31,156 --> 00:11:34,876 Speaker 1: Orleans in his catcher's gear. That rusty stab who went 174 00:11:34,916 --> 00:11:37,356 Speaker 1: on to have a famous big league career, made the 175 00:11:37,436 --> 00:11:40,396 Speaker 1: mistake of taunting Fits, and Fitz ran out onto the 176 00:11:40,436 --> 00:11:44,196 Speaker 1: field and beat the crap out of him. Then there 177 00:11:44,236 --> 00:11:46,956 Speaker 1: was the most incredible story, the one we love the best, 178 00:11:47,316 --> 00:11:50,876 Speaker 1: that during a college basketball game, Fitz had not only 179 00:11:51,036 --> 00:11:56,716 Speaker 1: singlehandedly kicked Pete Marevich's ass, but also beating up Marevich's dad, 180 00:11:56,876 --> 00:12:01,036 Speaker 1: the LSU coach, in the same brawl. To this day, 181 00:12:01,156 --> 00:12:05,156 Speaker 1: Pete Marevich holds the college hoops scoring record. Getting into 182 00:12:05,156 --> 00:12:08,556 Speaker 1: a fight with him, well, it felt then like getting 183 00:12:08,596 --> 00:12:12,476 Speaker 1: into a with Lebron James would now. It made Fits 184 00:12:12,556 --> 00:12:17,316 Speaker 1: a legend in our minds. The incident that summer night 185 00:12:17,316 --> 00:12:19,716 Speaker 1: that I want to tell you about. It's made possible 186 00:12:19,756 --> 00:12:23,236 Speaker 1: by all these other stories. Our baseball teams actually very good, 187 00:12:23,516 --> 00:12:25,556 Speaker 1: but we're playing the only team in the league that 188 00:12:25,636 --> 00:12:28,516 Speaker 1: might be better. I'm the new young pitcher, and I 189 00:12:28,556 --> 00:12:32,396 Speaker 1: really don't belong in the game. Our older, better pitcher 190 00:12:32,476 --> 00:12:35,996 Speaker 1: has it all under control, but his fate would have it. 191 00:12:36,036 --> 00:12:39,116 Speaker 1: Fits is forced to pull our older pitcher in the 192 00:12:39,236 --> 00:12:42,956 Speaker 1: last inning with one out and us up two to one, 193 00:12:43,436 --> 00:12:46,756 Speaker 1: and them with runners on first and third and lots 194 00:12:46,756 --> 00:12:49,636 Speaker 1: of grown ups in the stands screaming and yelling and 195 00:12:49,756 --> 00:12:56,116 Speaker 1: going bat shit crazy. I'm not an imposing sight. I've 196 00:12:56,156 --> 00:12:58,916 Speaker 1: not so much hit puberty as delta a glancing blow. 197 00:12:59,916 --> 00:13:02,436 Speaker 1: I look like a scoop of vanilla ice cream, maybe 198 00:13:02,436 --> 00:13:06,396 Speaker 1: with pickup sticks jutting out of the sides. The other 199 00:13:06,476 --> 00:13:10,356 Speaker 1: team has facial hair and muscles. They're actually laughing and 200 00:13:10,516 --> 00:13:13,076 Speaker 1: dancing with glee. As I walk out to the mound, 201 00:13:14,116 --> 00:13:17,836 Speaker 1: Fitz just stands there, looking like he wants to punch someone. 202 00:13:19,036 --> 00:13:24,436 Speaker 1: The situation's terrifying, but strangely, I'm not terrified because Coach 203 00:13:24,516 --> 00:13:27,996 Speaker 1: Fits is on my side, and he's by far the 204 00:13:28,036 --> 00:13:32,836 Speaker 1: most terrifying thing in the entire city. And he looks 205 00:13:32,876 --> 00:13:36,076 Speaker 1: at me and says, there is no one I'd rather 206 00:13:36,156 --> 00:13:40,836 Speaker 1: have in this situation, which is total bullshit, but such 207 00:13:40,916 --> 00:13:43,156 Speaker 1: is the force of the man that I believe him 208 00:13:43,276 --> 00:13:46,236 Speaker 1: every word. Then he hands me the ball and says, 209 00:13:46,676 --> 00:13:49,756 Speaker 1: stick it up their ass. Before he leaves me out 210 00:13:49,796 --> 00:13:52,516 Speaker 1: there alone, he nods towards the kid with a little 211 00:13:52,596 --> 00:13:55,676 Speaker 1: mustache on third base and says, pick his ass off. 212 00:13:58,196 --> 00:14:00,356 Speaker 1: I didn't have the words for how I felt just then, 213 00:14:00,676 --> 00:14:04,236 Speaker 1: but I did later. I'm about to show the world 214 00:14:04,476 --> 00:14:08,596 Speaker 1: and myself what I can do. The strength of this 215 00:14:08,676 --> 00:14:12,356 Speaker 1: coach was inside me like a superpower. I picked the 216 00:14:12,436 --> 00:14:14,836 Speaker 1: kid's ass off third base, then stuck the ball up 217 00:14:14,836 --> 00:14:18,556 Speaker 1: the ass of some other kid, and we won. But 218 00:14:18,756 --> 00:14:22,036 Speaker 1: that's not the full magic of this moment. The magic 219 00:14:22,316 --> 00:14:25,396 Speaker 1: is what Billy Fitzgerald uses it to do. After the game, 220 00:14:26,396 --> 00:14:28,476 Speaker 1: he gives a little speech to the team about the 221 00:14:28,556 --> 00:14:31,036 Speaker 1: nature of courage and how if you want to know 222 00:14:31,076 --> 00:14:33,836 Speaker 1: what it looks like, you just need to watch me pitch. 223 00:14:34,756 --> 00:14:38,476 Speaker 1: I'm hearing myself being described in an entirely original way 224 00:14:39,636 --> 00:14:44,236 Speaker 1: and wanting to believe it that incident is more the 225 00:14:44,276 --> 00:14:47,396 Speaker 1: beginning of a longer story than the end, because what 226 00:14:47,476 --> 00:14:50,156 Speaker 1: that coach did in that moment is to hand me 227 00:14:50,236 --> 00:14:53,476 Speaker 1: the start of a new identity by giving me a 228 00:14:53,476 --> 00:14:56,956 Speaker 1: new narrative. I was no longer this pointless human being, 229 00:14:57,036 --> 00:15:02,636 Speaker 1: this nightmare of inertia. I was brave, a hero, almost, 230 00:15:03,436 --> 00:15:07,676 Speaker 1: and I ran with it. Four years later, when the 231 00:15:07,796 --> 00:15:12,036 Speaker 1: letter arrives saying that I'd gotten into Princeton, I run 232 00:15:12,116 --> 00:15:15,356 Speaker 1: to the school to find Coach Fitzgerald to let him 233 00:15:15,396 --> 00:15:20,036 Speaker 1: know not to say look what I did, to say, 234 00:15:21,036 --> 00:15:23,196 Speaker 1: look what you made it possible for me to do. 235 00:15:38,516 --> 00:15:41,516 Speaker 1: At any point in the decade after my high school graduation, 236 00:15:42,156 --> 00:15:44,476 Speaker 1: you could drop in to see Billy Fitzgerald at the 237 00:15:44,476 --> 00:15:47,156 Speaker 1: Newman School and feel that you were basically in the 238 00:15:47,196 --> 00:15:49,636 Speaker 1: same world that I grew up in. You know, if 239 00:15:49,636 --> 00:15:52,116 Speaker 1: we were in practice, you know he would he got 240 00:15:52,116 --> 00:15:53,276 Speaker 1: to a point where he didn't have to tell me 241 00:15:53,276 --> 00:15:54,436 Speaker 1: to go run a line, Gerald, I would just go 242 00:15:54,476 --> 00:15:56,036 Speaker 1: and run it myself, because I knew that was the 243 00:15:56,036 --> 00:15:59,156 Speaker 1: next thing out of his mouth. Philip Skelding played basketball 244 00:15:59,196 --> 00:16:02,196 Speaker 1: for coach Fitzgerald in nineteen ninety. Okay, I'll just go run, 245 00:16:02,316 --> 00:16:04,276 Speaker 1: you know, and beat him to it. Save his breath, 246 00:16:04,756 --> 00:16:06,156 Speaker 1: you know, which is kind of like that whole like 247 00:16:06,196 --> 00:16:10,756 Speaker 1: internalizing his voice thing. A few years later, Philip would 248 00:16:10,756 --> 00:16:13,236 Speaker 1: win a Rhodes scholarship then go on to become a doctor. 249 00:16:13,796 --> 00:16:15,956 Speaker 1: But he's talking about when he was sixteen years old, 250 00:16:16,436 --> 00:16:19,756 Speaker 1: just another kid trying to meet this coach's great expectations. 251 00:16:21,876 --> 00:16:24,556 Speaker 1: One night, his team lost in the championship game of 252 00:16:24,596 --> 00:16:27,116 Speaker 1: a tournament. It was a game they all knew they 253 00:16:27,116 --> 00:16:29,716 Speaker 1: should have won. So this bus ride was just a miserable, 254 00:16:29,796 --> 00:16:32,716 Speaker 1: quiet experience, I'm sure, with all of us just pouting 255 00:16:32,756 --> 00:16:36,716 Speaker 1: in listening to our walkman's and trying not to laugh 256 00:16:36,716 --> 00:16:38,676 Speaker 1: too loud if anybody said anything, because that would have 257 00:16:38,716 --> 00:16:41,756 Speaker 1: just sent him off the handle. But we got back 258 00:16:41,756 --> 00:16:43,516 Speaker 1: to locker room, and we would get into the locker 259 00:16:43,596 --> 00:16:45,716 Speaker 1: room like always and sit around and wait for a 260 00:16:45,716 --> 00:16:51,556 Speaker 1: while while he collected his thoughts. It was like sitting 261 00:16:51,596 --> 00:16:55,916 Speaker 1: at the base of Vesuvius watching the smoke, waiting, and 262 00:16:56,076 --> 00:16:58,596 Speaker 1: he came in and we had gotten a trophy for 263 00:16:58,636 --> 00:17:02,476 Speaker 1: winning a second place, which was a pretty big trophy. Anyhow, 264 00:17:02,916 --> 00:17:05,996 Speaker 1: maybe two feet tie off the table there and they're 265 00:17:06,156 --> 00:17:08,116 Speaker 1: just sitting on the table, and he came in and 266 00:17:09,316 --> 00:17:11,756 Speaker 1: paint around a little bit like he was typically going 267 00:17:11,796 --> 00:17:15,676 Speaker 1: to do when jingled the coins in his pocket, and 268 00:17:15,916 --> 00:17:18,796 Speaker 1: pause every now and again and just make eye contact 269 00:17:18,836 --> 00:17:22,236 Speaker 1: with one of us and then probably like you know, 270 00:17:22,356 --> 00:17:25,676 Speaker 1: do like a halfway side xho and keep the pacing going. 271 00:17:25,676 --> 00:17:27,036 Speaker 1: And he did that for a minute or two to 272 00:17:27,036 --> 00:17:29,876 Speaker 1: build a suspense, and then he just said, y'all know 273 00:17:29,876 --> 00:17:32,476 Speaker 1: what I think a second place and he picked up 274 00:17:32,476 --> 00:17:35,956 Speaker 1: the trophy. You felt the heat before you saw the fire. 275 00:17:36,716 --> 00:17:39,876 Speaker 1: Everyone in that room felt it. I bet everyone in 276 00:17:39,876 --> 00:17:46,636 Speaker 1: that room still feels it. I remember it like yesterday. 277 00:17:46,876 --> 00:17:50,116 Speaker 1: There was a humongous trophy. It was really nice. That's 278 00:17:50,236 --> 00:17:54,116 Speaker 1: Randy Livingston. He was on that team too. He'd go 279 00:17:54,196 --> 00:17:56,756 Speaker 1: on to become Gatorade National Player of the Year, the 280 00:17:56,796 --> 00:18:00,396 Speaker 1: best basketball player in the entire country. He'd played for 281 00:18:00,396 --> 00:18:04,276 Speaker 1: eleven years in the NBA, but Fitz never treated him differently. 282 00:18:05,516 --> 00:18:08,316 Speaker 1: He treated him as just another identity to be created. 283 00:18:09,156 --> 00:18:14,316 Speaker 1: He literally smashed that trophy into pieces and just said, 284 00:18:14,436 --> 00:18:16,956 Speaker 1: we're not playing for second place, and I will never 285 00:18:16,996 --> 00:18:19,436 Speaker 1: forget the head. You know, back in the day that 286 00:18:19,556 --> 00:18:21,276 Speaker 1: had the man on the top of the trophy and 287 00:18:21,316 --> 00:18:23,436 Speaker 1: he's in a shooting or he's in a standing position. 288 00:18:24,076 --> 00:18:26,356 Speaker 1: The head of that trophy miss one of the players 289 00:18:26,516 --> 00:18:29,396 Speaker 1: head by inches and it would have wiped him out. 290 00:18:29,476 --> 00:18:35,156 Speaker 1: That's how forceful he smashed that trophy. The little man 291 00:18:35,276 --> 00:18:37,996 Speaker 1: on top of the big trophy went flying through the air. 292 00:18:38,636 --> 00:18:41,636 Speaker 1: Different kids reacted differently to the eruption. That was a 293 00:18:41,716 --> 00:18:44,156 Speaker 1: memorable one because I think there were some kids who 294 00:18:44,156 --> 00:18:46,516 Speaker 1: maybe left a team over that. In fact, but I 295 00:18:46,516 --> 00:18:49,276 Speaker 1: thought it was great. I didn't want to be second 296 00:18:49,316 --> 00:18:53,156 Speaker 1: place either. Several kids actually told their parents about the 297 00:18:53,156 --> 00:18:58,676 Speaker 1: trophy that Fits had demolished. Something had changed. These moments 298 00:18:58,796 --> 00:19:01,636 Speaker 1: were no longer just things that happened between a coach 299 00:19:01,676 --> 00:19:05,636 Speaker 1: and his players. A third party had entered the conversation. 300 00:19:05,916 --> 00:19:11,076 Speaker 1: It must be some level of just just discomfort with 301 00:19:11,276 --> 00:19:13,716 Speaker 1: that much intensity, because it is really intense. I mean 302 00:19:13,716 --> 00:19:15,956 Speaker 1: he was a really intense guy then, but I know 303 00:19:15,996 --> 00:19:17,996 Speaker 1: there are some kids who left the team or whatever 304 00:19:18,076 --> 00:19:20,356 Speaker 1: had issues or the parents, you know, speaking for their kids. 305 00:19:20,396 --> 00:19:22,076 Speaker 1: So I'm not letting you play for that guy. He's 306 00:19:22,076 --> 00:19:25,236 Speaker 1: a maniac. But for me and many of others, I 307 00:19:25,236 --> 00:19:27,556 Speaker 1: think it more kind of stealed our resolve. I mean 308 00:19:27,596 --> 00:19:29,796 Speaker 1: to say, yeah, this is this is something we can do. 309 00:19:30,716 --> 00:19:33,556 Speaker 1: We can do better than this, we can do better 310 00:19:33,596 --> 00:19:37,196 Speaker 1: than this. That was how I had felt. But now 311 00:19:37,236 --> 00:19:40,436 Speaker 1: some kids didn't feel that way, and they must have 312 00:19:40,476 --> 00:19:43,676 Speaker 1: sensed that the coach was vulnerable. Because if you took 313 00:19:43,716 --> 00:19:46,356 Speaker 1: his most dramatic moments and you replayed them in your 314 00:19:46,356 --> 00:19:49,076 Speaker 1: family kitchen, they felt different than they had in the 315 00:19:49,116 --> 00:19:51,916 Speaker 1: locker room. Taking anything out of context can make it 316 00:19:51,996 --> 00:19:53,876 Speaker 1: different in terms of how people interpret it. And I 317 00:19:53,916 --> 00:19:57,476 Speaker 1: think we had essentially signed up for it, and we 318 00:19:57,476 --> 00:20:00,236 Speaker 1: had all, you know, voted with our feet and said like, 319 00:20:00,236 --> 00:20:03,836 Speaker 1: we're okay with this. We want to you know, work 320 00:20:03,876 --> 00:20:08,196 Speaker 1: together as a team and see what we can accomplish. 321 00:20:08,796 --> 00:20:10,196 Speaker 1: Would did you do? What did you do with the 322 00:20:10,236 --> 00:20:13,196 Speaker 1: pieces of the trophy? So yeah, the little man who 323 00:20:13,556 --> 00:20:15,556 Speaker 1: is at the top of any basketball trophy, that's just 324 00:20:15,596 --> 00:20:17,436 Speaker 1: sitting there with a ball getting ready to shoot, he 325 00:20:17,516 --> 00:20:20,316 Speaker 1: went flying intact, but he separated from the trophy and 326 00:20:20,436 --> 00:20:22,796 Speaker 1: went flying off and landed in the lap of the 327 00:20:22,836 --> 00:20:25,356 Speaker 1: guy next to me, and we stuck him up on 328 00:20:25,356 --> 00:20:28,236 Speaker 1: the ducting of the air conditioning that we could all 329 00:20:28,236 --> 00:20:30,436 Speaker 1: reach as tall guys, and we just tapped him on 330 00:20:30,476 --> 00:20:32,076 Speaker 1: the way out the door every time for the rest 331 00:20:32,116 --> 00:20:34,916 Speaker 1: of the season, a sort of a reminder, let's just 332 00:20:34,956 --> 00:20:38,916 Speaker 1: play our best game, touching the little man on the 333 00:20:38,956 --> 00:20:42,276 Speaker 1: way out the door. They played better and better. They 334 00:20:42,396 --> 00:20:46,796 Speaker 1: end up winning the Louisiana State championship, which shocked even them. 335 00:20:46,916 --> 00:20:49,196 Speaker 1: Then they do it again the next year and the 336 00:20:49,276 --> 00:20:54,556 Speaker 1: year after that. Their higher standard becomes second nature, but 337 00:20:54,756 --> 00:20:57,556 Speaker 1: only for the players who stayed and let the coach 338 00:20:57,596 --> 00:21:01,596 Speaker 1: work his magic. The players who left, well, they missed out, 339 00:21:02,316 --> 00:21:05,076 Speaker 1: but they gave you a hint where the world was heading. 340 00:21:08,156 --> 00:21:12,236 Speaker 1: More than a decade passes, it's now two thousand and three. 341 00:21:12,956 --> 00:21:16,436 Speaker 1: I get two phone calls about Billy Fitzgerald, one right 342 00:21:16,476 --> 00:21:22,236 Speaker 1: after the other, David Pointer calling from Michael David. The 343 00:21:22,356 --> 00:21:25,836 Speaker 1: first comes from a former Newman basketball player named David Pointer. 344 00:21:26,276 --> 00:21:28,476 Speaker 1: How are you? He set out to raise the money 345 00:21:28,516 --> 00:21:32,476 Speaker 1: to remodel the school Jim and name it for coach Fitzgerald. 346 00:21:33,076 --> 00:21:36,596 Speaker 1: Because it's fitz David finds the fundraising easy. You know, 347 00:21:36,716 --> 00:21:39,796 Speaker 1: fitz didn't sit down and put on a blackboard the 348 00:21:39,956 --> 00:21:43,316 Speaker 1: values that he thought he needed to impart upon us. 349 00:21:44,236 --> 00:21:46,836 Speaker 1: And maybe ten years later we finally figured out what 350 00:21:46,916 --> 00:21:51,876 Speaker 1: those values were. Former players said things to David. He 351 00:21:51,916 --> 00:21:56,036 Speaker 1: taught me life. Parents said things to David like he 352 00:21:56,116 --> 00:21:59,396 Speaker 1: did all the hard work all in. Couldn't agree with 353 00:21:59,436 --> 00:22:02,756 Speaker 1: you more. Can't believe the school is letting you do it, 354 00:22:03,276 --> 00:22:05,676 Speaker 1: Which brings me to the second phone call from a 355 00:22:05,676 --> 00:22:08,756 Speaker 1: former teammate of mine. He said he'd heard that the 356 00:22:08,756 --> 00:22:12,036 Speaker 1: Newman School was on the verge of firing Billy Fitzgerald. 357 00:22:12,916 --> 00:22:16,996 Speaker 1: Some parents had complained to the headmaster. The headmaster was sympathetic. 358 00:22:17,876 --> 00:22:20,596 Speaker 1: How did Newman get itself into the position where it 359 00:22:20,716 --> 00:22:25,956 Speaker 1: listened to those parents? Oh, fundraising. I don't think it's 360 00:22:26,036 --> 00:22:29,076 Speaker 1: Newman in particular to you. No, I think it's money 361 00:22:29,756 --> 00:22:32,796 Speaker 1: gets money. It was the money, but it was more 362 00:22:32,876 --> 00:22:36,356 Speaker 1: than the money. It was about what people think coaches 363 00:22:36,396 --> 00:22:41,956 Speaker 1: are for. I flew back to New Orleans to try 364 00:22:41,956 --> 00:22:45,276 Speaker 1: to make sense of the situation. Eight parents of current 365 00:22:45,316 --> 00:22:48,676 Speaker 1: players had formed a coalition. A few of them were 366 00:22:48,756 --> 00:22:50,756 Speaker 1: rich people who might give the school a lot of money. 367 00:22:51,356 --> 00:22:54,036 Speaker 1: They'd gone to the headmaster to complain, but not about 368 00:22:54,036 --> 00:22:56,756 Speaker 1: anything Coach Fits had done. That was one of the 369 00:22:56,836 --> 00:23:00,396 Speaker 1: strange things about the situation, because it turned out coach 370 00:23:00,436 --> 00:23:03,996 Speaker 1: Fits it sort of mellowed. His days of breaking trophies 371 00:23:03,996 --> 00:23:07,476 Speaker 1: were now over. His crime seemed to be that he 372 00:23:07,476 --> 00:23:11,636 Speaker 1: held kids accountable, suspended them when they violated training rules, 373 00:23:11,636 --> 00:23:14,076 Speaker 1: for example, or pointed out that they put on ten 374 00:23:14,116 --> 00:23:17,516 Speaker 1: pounds of fat when they promised to lose fifteen. The 375 00:23:17,636 --> 00:23:20,236 Speaker 1: other odd thing was that one of his teams had 376 00:23:20,236 --> 00:23:24,756 Speaker 1: just won the Louisiana State baseball championship. In sports, it's 377 00:23:24,796 --> 00:23:28,716 Speaker 1: almost a natural law. Winning teams are happy and losing 378 00:23:28,756 --> 00:23:32,596 Speaker 1: teams are not. After the fact, everyone says the team 379 00:23:32,636 --> 00:23:35,356 Speaker 1: won because of its great chemistry. But which usually happened 380 00:23:35,396 --> 00:23:37,676 Speaker 1: is that winning has just made everybody like each other more. 381 00:23:38,596 --> 00:23:40,516 Speaker 1: But here was a team that had just won it 382 00:23:40,596 --> 00:23:49,596 Speaker 1: all and it was falling apart. It was Marti Gras 383 00:23:49,596 --> 00:23:52,356 Speaker 1: time at the time. I remember her. You know, there 384 00:23:52,476 --> 00:23:54,796 Speaker 1: was drinking going on. There were young kids that were 385 00:23:54,956 --> 00:23:57,156 Speaker 1: doing things they shouldn't have been doing, just like anywhere. 386 00:23:57,756 --> 00:24:00,956 Speaker 1: Jeremy Blish was a junior on Newman's winning baseball team 387 00:24:00,996 --> 00:24:04,396 Speaker 1: that year. It was a Lord of the Flies situation 388 00:24:04,436 --> 00:24:07,396 Speaker 1: and he was Ralph Piggy and a few of the 389 00:24:07,436 --> 00:24:09,756 Speaker 1: other younger players were on his side, but scared to 390 00:24:09,756 --> 00:24:14,396 Speaker 1: say it because the older players, the seniors, were in revolt. 391 00:24:14,596 --> 00:24:16,556 Speaker 1: You know, as high schoolers, we signed training rules that 392 00:24:16,636 --> 00:24:21,436 Speaker 1: said we wouldn't drink like that's that's asinine to begin with, right, 393 00:24:21,556 --> 00:24:24,996 Speaker 1: So anyway, so we signed training rules to not drink 394 00:24:25,076 --> 00:24:27,836 Speaker 1: alcohol at sixteen, seventeen, and eighteen years old. You mean 395 00:24:27,836 --> 00:24:31,036 Speaker 1: it's asinine because you shouldn't have to sign a document exactly, 396 00:24:31,116 --> 00:24:34,436 Speaker 1: like who should be drinking like that in public? Who 397 00:24:34,476 --> 00:24:37,236 Speaker 1: should be drinking like that? Whatever? That's not you know, right, 398 00:24:37,276 --> 00:24:39,196 Speaker 1: it's not my kids or whatever. But my point is is, 399 00:24:39,236 --> 00:24:46,596 Speaker 1: like fits did held people accountable for for rules broken? 400 00:24:46,676 --> 00:24:49,956 Speaker 1: And yeah, was there some vulgarity involved? Of course? Was 401 00:24:49,996 --> 00:24:58,076 Speaker 1: there some talks where they were intense? Absolutely? So, yes, 402 00:24:58,196 --> 00:25:01,996 Speaker 1: this is New Orleans and coach Fitz asked his students 403 00:25:02,076 --> 00:25:05,076 Speaker 1: to forego their god given right to get shitfaced during 404 00:25:05,116 --> 00:25:09,356 Speaker 1: Marty Raw. But this kid, Jeremy Blish, he wasn't some 405 00:25:09,516 --> 00:25:13,196 Speaker 1: anti social leader of a child temperance movement. He just 406 00:25:13,236 --> 00:25:18,076 Speaker 1: wanted to commit to really work hard at something. His 407 00:25:18,276 --> 00:25:21,676 Speaker 1: dad was a five foot six inch cardiologist. No one 408 00:25:21,716 --> 00:25:25,316 Speaker 1: in his family had ever played sports, but Coach Fitz 409 00:25:25,356 --> 00:25:27,276 Speaker 1: was teaching him how to push himself as he had 410 00:25:27,316 --> 00:25:30,196 Speaker 1: never done before. And looking back, I had no idea 411 00:25:30,236 --> 00:25:32,956 Speaker 1: what my identity was, right, I mean, we're we still 412 00:25:32,996 --> 00:25:35,356 Speaker 1: look for these things every day. But it was a 413 00:25:35,396 --> 00:25:38,476 Speaker 1: perfect opportunity to put your foot down and say, no, 414 00:25:38,596 --> 00:25:40,396 Speaker 1: this is what I want to do. You know, I'm 415 00:25:40,476 --> 00:25:43,036 Speaker 1: Jeremy Blish and my identity is I want to go 416 00:25:43,076 --> 00:25:46,196 Speaker 1: play college baseball. You know, I want to put myself 417 00:25:46,196 --> 00:25:48,556 Speaker 1: in the best position to try and play college baseball. 418 00:25:48,596 --> 00:25:51,036 Speaker 1: So I took a chance. I took a chance on 419 00:25:51,076 --> 00:25:53,396 Speaker 1: an identity that at that point I had no tangible 420 00:25:53,436 --> 00:25:59,356 Speaker 1: feeling of what it was. Coach Fitz had something important 421 00:25:59,396 --> 00:26:02,836 Speaker 1: to say to his players, and Jeremy was internalizing it. 422 00:26:03,116 --> 00:26:05,996 Speaker 1: The message was always the same, and it was always consistent, 423 00:26:06,356 --> 00:26:07,836 Speaker 1: don't be good, be great at the end of the 424 00:26:07,876 --> 00:26:10,676 Speaker 1: phone call. Until years ago, until I was in pitching 425 00:26:10,676 --> 00:26:13,436 Speaker 1: in San Francisco for the ace, don't be good, be great. 426 00:26:18,436 --> 00:26:20,996 Speaker 1: Jeremy wound up not only going to Stanford on a 427 00:26:21,036 --> 00:26:24,396 Speaker 1: baseball scholarship, but being a first round draft pick of 428 00:26:24,396 --> 00:26:27,516 Speaker 1: the New York Yankees, he would one day pitch in 429 00:26:27,556 --> 00:26:30,716 Speaker 1: the big leagues. On his high school team, he was 430 00:26:30,756 --> 00:26:34,356 Speaker 1: by far the best player. In a normal environment, his 431 00:26:34,356 --> 00:26:37,716 Speaker 1: teammates would have been following his lead. But this was 432 00:26:37,796 --> 00:27:00,796 Speaker 1: no longer a normal environment. Now I want to tell 433 00:27:00,796 --> 00:27:04,036 Speaker 1: you my second story about Coach Fits, or second incident. 434 00:27:04,716 --> 00:27:08,156 Speaker 1: It's nineteen seventy six, nine months after I've established myself 435 00:27:08,196 --> 00:27:11,476 Speaker 1: as a hero in my own mind, I'm now a 436 00:27:11,556 --> 00:27:15,956 Speaker 1: high school sophomore pitching for the varsity baseball team. Early 437 00:27:15,996 --> 00:27:19,356 Speaker 1: in the season, during Mardi Gras break, I leave New 438 00:27:19,436 --> 00:27:22,796 Speaker 1: Orleans with my parents. We're going on a ski trip 439 00:27:22,796 --> 00:27:25,876 Speaker 1: and I'm going to miss a week of practice. There's 440 00:27:25,916 --> 00:27:28,516 Speaker 1: no written rule that says you can't do this. It's 441 00:27:28,556 --> 00:27:33,676 Speaker 1: school break, but I sense an unwritten one. Coach Fits 442 00:27:33,796 --> 00:27:36,716 Speaker 1: is not pleased. The day I return, he throws me 443 00:27:36,836 --> 00:27:39,356 Speaker 1: right into a game against a really good team. The 444 00:27:39,476 --> 00:27:41,476 Speaker 1: look on his face as he hands me the ball says, 445 00:27:41,756 --> 00:27:43,396 Speaker 1: I hope it goes well if you're out there, but 446 00:27:43,436 --> 00:27:48,636 Speaker 1: it really shouldn't. It doesn't go well. I can't find 447 00:27:48,676 --> 00:27:52,196 Speaker 1: the plate up to that moment. Fitz has not said 448 00:27:52,276 --> 00:27:55,476 Speaker 1: one word to me about my ski trip. But as 449 00:27:55,516 --> 00:27:59,996 Speaker 1: I throw ball three, I hear his voice. Where was 450 00:28:00,116 --> 00:28:05,636 Speaker 1: Michael Lewis during Marty Gras the voice booms from our dugout, 451 00:28:06,476 --> 00:28:07,796 Speaker 1: I try not to look at him, but out of 452 00:28:07,796 --> 00:28:09,836 Speaker 1: the corner of my eye, I can see him pacing, 453 00:28:10,276 --> 00:28:13,836 Speaker 1: jangling the keys in his pocket. I walk the first 454 00:28:13,836 --> 00:28:19,076 Speaker 1: batter and the second. Now he's really hollering. Everyone else 455 00:28:19,156 --> 00:28:24,716 Speaker 1: was at practice, but where was Michael Lewis? The other 456 00:28:24,716 --> 00:28:27,396 Speaker 1: team can hear him, The people in the stands can 457 00:28:27,436 --> 00:28:30,956 Speaker 1: hear him. More to the point I can hear him, 458 00:28:30,996 --> 00:28:36,116 Speaker 1: and all I can think is, please, don't say skiing, Please, 459 00:28:37,556 --> 00:28:42,476 Speaker 1: I'll tell you where Michael Lewis was skiing. He packs 460 00:28:42,556 --> 00:28:46,156 Speaker 1: into that single word an idea that usually requires an 461 00:28:46,316 --> 00:28:52,276 Speaker 1: entire speech for him to convey. Privilege corrupts. You're always 462 00:28:52,316 --> 00:28:55,156 Speaker 1: doing what money can buy instead of what duty demands. 463 00:28:55,956 --> 00:29:00,716 Speaker 1: You're always skiing. You're living your life as if nothing 464 00:29:00,756 --> 00:29:05,316 Speaker 1: matters so much that you should suffer for it. But 465 00:29:05,436 --> 00:29:08,076 Speaker 1: now something does matter to me so much that I 466 00:29:08,116 --> 00:29:14,196 Speaker 1: will suffer for it. Baseball, or more exactly, coach fits. 467 00:29:14,236 --> 00:29:17,756 Speaker 1: He's pouring himself into me. And even the fifteen year 468 00:29:17,796 --> 00:29:21,396 Speaker 1: old me, in rare moments of clarity, even I can 469 00:29:21,396 --> 00:29:25,636 Speaker 1: see the positive effects. But there in the dugout, my 470 00:29:25,756 --> 00:29:30,596 Speaker 1: coach is still on a roll. Can someone please tell 471 00:29:30,636 --> 00:29:35,276 Speaker 1: me why Michael Lewis thinks it's okay to leave town 472 00:29:35,996 --> 00:29:44,836 Speaker 1: and go and go. Please don't say skiing again. That's 473 00:29:44,876 --> 00:29:47,116 Speaker 1: my final thought before the one hopper back to the 474 00:29:47,156 --> 00:29:49,476 Speaker 1: mound hits me in the face and knocks me out. 475 00:29:50,836 --> 00:29:54,076 Speaker 1: When I come to, I'm looking up at Coach fits. 476 00:29:54,756 --> 00:29:57,956 Speaker 1: My nose is broken in five places. But I do 477 00:29:58,076 --> 00:30:02,276 Speaker 1: not feel wronged. I feel cared for in a new 478 00:30:02,316 --> 00:30:07,876 Speaker 1: way by this coach. I mean he cares enough to 479 00:30:07,916 --> 00:30:11,636 Speaker 1: save me from a lifetime. I was skiing on the 480 00:30:11,676 --> 00:30:13,596 Speaker 1: way to the hospital. I tell my mother that the 481 00:30:13,676 --> 00:30:16,676 Speaker 1: next time the family goes skiing or any place else, 482 00:30:16,876 --> 00:30:21,076 Speaker 1: they'll be going without me, and she just smiles because 483 00:30:21,116 --> 00:30:24,116 Speaker 1: I think she kind of gets it, all right. I 484 00:30:24,196 --> 00:30:26,636 Speaker 1: want to talk about what happened between the time I 485 00:30:26,756 --> 00:30:29,156 Speaker 1: left Newman School and the time I came back, what 486 00:30:29,276 --> 00:30:34,076 Speaker 1: had changed parents. In the middle of the crisis with 487 00:30:34,156 --> 00:30:37,436 Speaker 1: his state championship baseball team back in two thousand and three, 488 00:30:37,476 --> 00:30:42,356 Speaker 1: I found Billy Fitzgerald in his office alive. Surprisingly, parents, 489 00:30:42,716 --> 00:30:46,116 Speaker 1: parents and the culture. So how many games did your 490 00:30:46,156 --> 00:30:50,076 Speaker 1: mom and dad come to? Well, how many games did 491 00:30:50,116 --> 00:30:52,836 Speaker 1: in that period did the parents come to? Well, not 492 00:30:52,916 --> 00:30:57,996 Speaker 1: only did they come to the games and you sit 493 00:30:58,116 --> 00:31:03,556 Speaker 1: on the sidelines and on the fences, but they were 494 00:31:03,596 --> 00:31:06,196 Speaker 1: coming to practice, and they were wanting to know what 495 00:31:06,316 --> 00:31:08,716 Speaker 1: you were running and why you were running it, why 496 00:31:08,716 --> 00:31:14,116 Speaker 1: are you calling that pitch? If he sounds more relaxed 497 00:31:14,196 --> 00:31:17,796 Speaker 1: then you expected, it's in part because he truly had mellowed. 498 00:31:18,236 --> 00:31:20,876 Speaker 1: On the other hand, he'd always had the ability to 499 00:31:20,916 --> 00:31:24,796 Speaker 1: seem extremely calm, which was why it was so unsettling 500 00:31:24,916 --> 00:31:29,196 Speaker 1: when he wasn't all of a sudden. You have parents 501 00:31:29,276 --> 00:31:33,436 Speaker 1: doing things they weren't doing before. It's not only that, 502 00:31:33,636 --> 00:31:41,636 Speaker 1: it's the assumption that they know how to coach. So 503 00:31:41,676 --> 00:31:45,516 Speaker 1: they got more and more involved in their kids little 504 00:31:45,596 --> 00:31:49,916 Speaker 1: league and you know, bitty league basketball and whatever else, 505 00:31:50,436 --> 00:31:57,956 Speaker 1: and so they became these experts where they thought that 506 00:31:58,076 --> 00:32:02,436 Speaker 1: it was their right to say, well, you know, my 507 00:32:02,476 --> 00:32:05,116 Speaker 1: son ought to be hit, and third, I mean, you know, 508 00:32:05,236 --> 00:32:10,236 Speaker 1: he crushes the ball. It just got crazy. So what's 509 00:32:10,276 --> 00:32:13,476 Speaker 1: the price the kids pay for this? Oh my god? Well, 510 00:32:13,476 --> 00:32:18,436 Speaker 1: They're caught literally in the middle, and there is absolutely 511 00:32:18,516 --> 00:32:22,156 Speaker 1: no way out. The kid was trapped, you know. And 512 00:32:22,236 --> 00:32:25,876 Speaker 1: I tried to tell kids, Look, I love my dad, 513 00:32:26,276 --> 00:32:30,076 Speaker 1: but I knew my dad didn't know everything about everything, 514 00:32:30,716 --> 00:32:36,116 Speaker 1: and you have to decide, you know, for yourself, how 515 00:32:36,156 --> 00:32:44,276 Speaker 1: you're going to manage this, and they couldn't. Obviously I 516 00:32:44,316 --> 00:32:47,396 Speaker 1: had questions, and I'm sure you do too. What I 517 00:32:47,436 --> 00:32:49,556 Speaker 1: wanted to know was what happened each time he was 518 00:32:49,596 --> 00:32:52,916 Speaker 1: hauled into the headmaster's office. What happened in there at 519 00:32:52,916 --> 00:32:56,356 Speaker 1: the same time he's being memorialized on the school gym. 520 00:32:56,556 --> 00:32:58,436 Speaker 1: Walk me through what that looked like if I was 521 00:32:58,476 --> 00:33:01,276 Speaker 1: a fly on the wall just watching what happens in 522 00:33:01,316 --> 00:33:07,516 Speaker 1: those meetings. So I walk in and it's just the 523 00:33:07,556 --> 00:33:13,836 Speaker 1: two of us, and I intentionally walk in under the 524 00:33:13,916 --> 00:33:18,476 Speaker 1: guise of you are going to remain calm, you are 525 00:33:18,676 --> 00:33:21,996 Speaker 1: not going to raise your voice, you are going to 526 00:33:22,076 --> 00:33:25,196 Speaker 1: have a civil conversation, but you are going to set 527 00:33:25,196 --> 00:33:32,036 Speaker 1: the record straight as well. Then I basically am listening 528 00:33:32,076 --> 00:33:36,876 Speaker 1: to the headmasters say that several parents have come in 529 00:33:37,476 --> 00:33:41,956 Speaker 1: and one parent says you said his son was fat. 530 00:33:43,476 --> 00:33:49,956 Speaker 1: Another says, you belittled my son in the baseball meeting 531 00:33:50,956 --> 00:33:54,076 Speaker 1: that you had after the last game of the season, 532 00:33:54,916 --> 00:33:57,556 Speaker 1: and it goes on. It's a kind of a rap sheet. 533 00:33:57,676 --> 00:34:00,676 Speaker 1: It is. It is a rap sheet. I'd present the 534 00:34:00,716 --> 00:34:03,236 Speaker 1: other side of the story, but the other side never 535 00:34:03,316 --> 00:34:07,156 Speaker 1: left the shadows. No one who wanted to coach fired 536 00:34:07,276 --> 00:34:10,716 Speaker 1: ever confronted him in person or in writing. They're a 537 00:34:10,716 --> 00:34:12,956 Speaker 1: bunch of well to do people used to having their way, 538 00:34:12,996 --> 00:34:15,116 Speaker 1: and so they took their case straight to the higher 539 00:34:15,196 --> 00:34:19,636 Speaker 1: court where money could buy a decision. They never even 540 00:34:19,676 --> 00:34:22,396 Speaker 1: tried to grapple with the coach himself or what he 541 00:34:22,436 --> 00:34:27,956 Speaker 1: stood for. My job, as I perceived it was, Look, 542 00:34:27,996 --> 00:34:30,596 Speaker 1: I've got to educate you on how to swing, how 543 00:34:30,636 --> 00:34:34,476 Speaker 1: to throw, how to work a hitter, you know, But 544 00:34:34,596 --> 00:34:38,476 Speaker 1: I'm also teaching you that, hey, you know you're going 545 00:34:38,516 --> 00:34:41,516 Speaker 1: to strike out, You're gonna fail in life, and you've 546 00:34:41,556 --> 00:34:44,556 Speaker 1: got to find a way to deal with the failure 547 00:34:44,596 --> 00:34:48,436 Speaker 1: and use the failure to get better and to be successful. 548 00:34:49,156 --> 00:34:52,396 Speaker 1: So I didn't feel like I could let anybody off 549 00:34:52,436 --> 00:34:54,996 Speaker 1: the hook. Well, the minute you let them off the hook, 550 00:34:55,036 --> 00:34:58,716 Speaker 1: you lose the ability to teach them about the failure exactly. 551 00:34:59,116 --> 00:35:01,596 Speaker 1: That's the that's the big issue, and not letting them 552 00:35:01,636 --> 00:35:05,916 Speaker 1: off the hook makes them uncomfortable, right, and making them 553 00:35:05,956 --> 00:35:09,636 Speaker 1: uncomfortable is what nobody is comfortable is nobody wants see us. 554 00:35:13,436 --> 00:35:16,036 Speaker 1: The office in which i'd found Coach fits all those 555 00:35:16,116 --> 00:35:19,356 Speaker 1: years ago, Well, it looked more like a closet. The 556 00:35:19,476 --> 00:35:23,316 Speaker 1: gym was still under construction, and plaques with inspirational quotes 557 00:35:23,356 --> 00:35:26,636 Speaker 1: were stacked in a box by his desk. I pulled 558 00:35:26,676 --> 00:35:31,716 Speaker 1: one out, Victor Frankel's famous line, what is to give 559 00:35:31,796 --> 00:35:37,716 Speaker 1: light must endure burning? Coach Fitz laughed, but not a 560 00:35:37,716 --> 00:35:41,276 Speaker 1: happy laugh, and said we won't be putting that one 561 00:35:41,356 --> 00:35:49,996 Speaker 1: up again. Before I left him, I couldn't resist asking 562 00:35:50,036 --> 00:35:53,276 Speaker 1: about the stories about him we'd told his kids. Was 563 00:35:53,316 --> 00:35:56,116 Speaker 1: it true? Did he really walk home across New Orleans 564 00:35:56,156 --> 00:35:59,196 Speaker 1: every night in his catcher's gear after his team lost? 565 00:36:00,356 --> 00:36:03,516 Speaker 1: Had he really gone after Rusty Stab? And did he 566 00:36:03,596 --> 00:36:07,196 Speaker 1: really fight Pete Marovitch with Marevich's dad hanging from his back? 567 00:36:08,516 --> 00:36:10,916 Speaker 1: I got about halfway through trying to fact check my 568 00:36:10,956 --> 00:36:14,316 Speaker 1: middle school life, and then he started to laugh at me. 569 00:36:15,076 --> 00:36:18,316 Speaker 1: What fool would walk across New Orleans in his catcher's gear? 570 00:36:18,396 --> 00:36:20,916 Speaker 1: He asked, why would he get in a fight with 571 00:36:20,996 --> 00:36:24,796 Speaker 1: Rusty Stab? They went to the same school, and fitz 572 00:36:24,836 --> 00:36:26,796 Speaker 1: was in the eighth grade when Stab was a senior. 573 00:36:28,196 --> 00:36:31,716 Speaker 1: Billy Fitzgerald was scary enough in real life, but we'd 574 00:36:31,756 --> 00:36:34,876 Speaker 1: made him even scarier because we needed him to be 575 00:36:43,076 --> 00:36:46,436 Speaker 1: of one thing. I am totally certain if I'd never 576 00:36:46,476 --> 00:36:50,156 Speaker 1: met Coach Fitz, I'd have never become a writer. It 577 00:36:50,236 --> 00:36:55,276 Speaker 1: would have felt too risky, too hard. But I became 578 00:36:55,316 --> 00:36:57,676 Speaker 1: a writer, and eventually I wrote up the story of 579 00:36:57,716 --> 00:37:00,836 Speaker 1: Coach Fitz, first for the New York Times magazine and 580 00:37:00,836 --> 00:37:05,116 Speaker 1: then as a little book. Writing's hard to predict. You 581 00:37:05,196 --> 00:37:07,036 Speaker 1: work on something and then you throw it out there 582 00:37:07,076 --> 00:37:10,116 Speaker 1: at readers or listeners, and either they get what you 583 00:37:10,196 --> 00:37:14,796 Speaker 1: mean or they don't. A long time ago, Coach Fitz 584 00:37:14,836 --> 00:37:17,836 Speaker 1: sent me a poem that makes a connection between writing 585 00:37:17,836 --> 00:37:21,796 Speaker 1: and pitching. It's called The Pitcher by the American poet 586 00:37:21,916 --> 00:37:26,476 Speaker 1: Robert Francis. Here's how it ends. The others throw to 587 00:37:26,556 --> 00:37:31,796 Speaker 1: be comprehended. He throws to be a moment misunderstood yet 588 00:37:31,836 --> 00:37:38,156 Speaker 1: not too much, not errant, errant, wild, but every seeming aberration, willed, 589 00:37:38,996 --> 00:37:43,676 Speaker 1: not too yet still still to communicate, making the batter 590 00:37:43,836 --> 00:37:53,876 Speaker 1: understand too late. A picture, like a writer is delivering 591 00:37:53,876 --> 00:37:58,636 Speaker 1: a message. Both want the message understood, if in different ways. 592 00:38:00,116 --> 00:38:02,836 Speaker 1: That essay I published about Coach fitz made the batter 593 00:38:02,956 --> 00:38:09,716 Speaker 1: understand too late, and it generated this fantastic outrage not 594 00:38:09,836 --> 00:38:12,676 Speaker 1: towards the coach who pushed kids harder than they ever 595 00:38:12,716 --> 00:38:16,196 Speaker 1: been pushed, towards the people hoping to get the coach fired. 596 00:38:17,596 --> 00:38:20,156 Speaker 1: They got run out of town. More or less. The 597 00:38:20,196 --> 00:38:24,116 Speaker 1: headmaster left the school too, and the school created a 598 00:38:24,116 --> 00:38:27,596 Speaker 1: committee to find a new headmaster and put Billy Fitzgerald 599 00:38:27,716 --> 00:38:37,276 Speaker 1: in charge of it. This is where it all started, 600 00:38:37,356 --> 00:38:40,916 Speaker 1: right here for us eighth grade, nineteen seventy two. So 601 00:38:40,956 --> 00:38:45,796 Speaker 1: another decade passes. Twenty fourteen brings the retirement ceremony for 602 00:38:45,916 --> 00:38:50,236 Speaker 1: coach Billy Fitzgerald. Hundreds of people fly or drive to 603 00:38:50,276 --> 00:38:53,516 Speaker 1: the Newman School. So many people turn up that they 604 00:38:53,556 --> 00:38:57,196 Speaker 1: need to move it outdoors. The ceremony is held on 605 00:38:57,196 --> 00:39:00,956 Speaker 1: the same basketball court where I first watched him holler 606 00:39:00,956 --> 00:39:03,876 Speaker 1: and read from the collected works of Bobby Knight, just 607 00:39:04,036 --> 00:39:07,756 Speaker 1: around the corner from the gym now named for Billy Fitzgerald, 608 00:39:08,396 --> 00:39:13,276 Speaker 1: that you're going to coach, teacher, co worker, and athletic director. 609 00:39:13,996 --> 00:39:15,636 Speaker 1: The four of us are here tonight to tell you 610 00:39:15,676 --> 00:39:18,156 Speaker 1: that you've been a great father. People get up and 611 00:39:18,196 --> 00:39:24,636 Speaker 1: say what he meant to their lives. Thank you. Then 612 00:39:24,676 --> 00:39:27,916 Speaker 1: it's the coach's turn at the podium and he talks 613 00:39:28,356 --> 00:39:32,196 Speaker 1: about coaching. I happen to believe that coaching is teaching 614 00:39:32,236 --> 00:39:37,076 Speaker 1: in its most perfect and rewarding form, no matter the sport, 615 00:39:37,676 --> 00:39:43,156 Speaker 1: coaches give information, wait for a response, and then give 616 00:39:43,156 --> 00:39:49,316 Speaker 1: feedback that response. But as my career progressed, I came 617 00:39:49,316 --> 00:39:54,516 Speaker 1: to believe that coaching means finding ways to awaken our 618 00:39:54,636 --> 00:40:00,116 Speaker 1: students to new and different possibilities. You can see this 619 00:40:00,236 --> 00:40:05,556 Speaker 1: awakening in students eyes as they begin to reach those possibilities. 620 00:40:06,636 --> 00:40:10,836 Speaker 1: So I'm a firm believer in Gerda quote. Treat a 621 00:40:10,876 --> 00:40:13,676 Speaker 1: man as he is, and he remains as he is. 622 00:40:14,396 --> 00:40:16,716 Speaker 1: Treat a man as he can and should be, and 623 00:40:16,836 --> 00:40:20,636 Speaker 1: he will become as he can and should be. This 624 00:40:20,756 --> 00:40:25,716 Speaker 1: has been an incredible run and I can't thank you enough. 625 00:40:26,356 --> 00:40:39,716 Speaker 1: Thank you, coach. It's really not a job for just anyone. 626 00:40:40,756 --> 00:40:42,916 Speaker 1: Oh anyone can step into the role, of course and 627 00:40:42,996 --> 00:40:46,716 Speaker 1: call himself a coach. But it's like a tight rubber suit. 628 00:40:47,156 --> 00:40:50,796 Speaker 1: It takes on the shape whoever's in it. It hides nothing. 629 00:40:51,876 --> 00:40:54,556 Speaker 1: It expands and contracts with the character of the person 630 00:40:54,596 --> 00:40:59,156 Speaker 1: who wears it. In this case, the man makes the clothes. 631 00:41:05,396 --> 00:41:08,356 Speaker 1: This is a strange thing, man. The things that I 632 00:41:08,396 --> 00:41:10,756 Speaker 1: remember about Bill. One of the things that I remember happened, 633 00:41:11,356 --> 00:41:15,196 Speaker 1: what maybe five years ago. Harold Sylvester had gone back 634 00:41:15,196 --> 00:41:18,196 Speaker 1: to New Orleans for a funeral of her friend. He'd 635 00:41:18,196 --> 00:41:20,876 Speaker 1: walked into the church and found himself face to face 636 00:41:20,956 --> 00:41:23,596 Speaker 1: with the man who had seared himself into his imagination 637 00:41:24,236 --> 00:41:28,236 Speaker 1: back in nineteen sixty five in a basketball game played 638 00:41:28,276 --> 00:41:30,996 Speaker 1: in an empty gym, and Bill came up, and you know, 639 00:41:31,036 --> 00:41:33,516 Speaker 1: we chat up a little bit, and he said, yeah, hey, man, 640 00:41:34,236 --> 00:41:36,876 Speaker 1: I am a little sorry for the way things went down. 641 00:41:37,156 --> 00:41:40,636 Speaker 1: You know back in the day. What was he apologizing for. 642 00:41:41,796 --> 00:41:45,276 Speaker 1: He was apologizing for the times. But he said, you know, 643 00:41:45,316 --> 00:41:48,316 Speaker 1: I'm sorry for what you had to go through. And 644 00:41:48,316 --> 00:41:52,036 Speaker 1: when he said it, I was surprised. I don't remember 645 00:41:52,116 --> 00:41:56,156 Speaker 1: ever having a conversation about race. And I always thought 646 00:41:56,196 --> 00:42:00,716 Speaker 1: that Bill was fair. You know, I have no qualms, 647 00:42:00,876 --> 00:42:04,276 Speaker 1: you know about his toughness or his attitude or whatever 648 00:42:04,316 --> 00:42:07,836 Speaker 1: it was. I admired him. But bottom line is the 649 00:42:07,836 --> 00:42:13,516 Speaker 1: fact that he said it. Lady who could rise a March. 650 00:42:14,676 --> 00:42:18,436 Speaker 1: You know, in my opinion, he was a good guy. 651 00:42:18,836 --> 00:42:30,436 Speaker 1: He's a good guy to have as a friend. I'm 652 00:42:30,476 --> 00:42:34,156 Speaker 1: Michael Lewis. Thanks for listening to Against the Rules. Against 653 00:42:34,156 --> 00:42:37,116 Speaker 1: the Rules is brought to you by Pushkin Industries. The 654 00:42:37,196 --> 00:42:41,356 Speaker 1: show's produced by Audrey Dilling and Catherine Girodo, with research 655 00:42:41,356 --> 00:42:45,916 Speaker 1: assistance from Lydia Jeancott and Zooe Wynn. Our editor is 656 00:42:45,956 --> 00:42:50,356 Speaker 1: Julia Barton Mio o'bell is our executive producer. Our theme 657 00:42:50,516 --> 00:42:54,956 Speaker 1: was composed by Nick Brittell, with additional scoring by Stellwagon Sinphonette. 658 00:42:55,196 --> 00:42:57,876 Speaker 1: We got fact checked by Beth Johnson. Our show was 659 00:42:57,916 --> 00:43:01,396 Speaker 1: recorded by tofur Ruth and Trey Schultz at Northgate Studios 660 00:43:01,396 --> 00:43:05,316 Speaker 1: in Berkeley. Special thanks to the Isidore Newman School for 661 00:43:05,396 --> 00:43:10,836 Speaker 1: providing audio for this episode. As always thanks to Pushkins 662 00:43:10,836 --> 00:43:24,596 Speaker 1: founders Jacob Weisberg and Malcolm Gladwell. We're down there on 663 00:43:24,676 --> 00:43:27,916 Speaker 1: the baseline and all of a sudden, Billy were asked 664 00:43:27,956 --> 00:43:31,396 Speaker 1: back and punch Us Bogs in the head. You know, 665 00:43:31,396 --> 00:43:34,196 Speaker 1: he just knocks the shit out of him. Uh, you know, 666 00:43:34,436 --> 00:43:36,596 Speaker 1: and I'm saying I'm looking around, you know, I mean 667 00:43:36,636 --> 00:43:40,556 Speaker 1: they gonna Remi's pretty big, and and you know, my 668 00:43:40,956 --> 00:43:44,156 Speaker 1: four black friends were gone, you know, And and I'm 669 00:43:44,196 --> 00:43:48,116 Speaker 1: there sensitive by myself, and so so all I see 670 00:43:48,236 --> 00:43:52,796 Speaker 1: is Billy hitting peak and then the lsu Ben's rising 671 00:43:52,916 --> 00:43:56,316 Speaker 1: up and coming at us um. And that was it 672 00:43:56,836 --> 00:44:01,116 Speaker 1: what precipitated this, Like, why did Billy punch Pete Merrims, 673 00:44:01,996 --> 00:44:06,396 Speaker 1: I asked, Billy, you know why not? We we had 674 00:44:06,396 --> 00:44:08,156 Speaker 1: heard that story. We had heard a story where he 675 00:44:08,196 --> 00:44:10,316 Speaker 1: had gotten in a fight, start a fight with Pete 676 00:44:10,316 --> 00:44:13,916 Speaker 1: Marrivage and that there was you know, that he was 677 00:44:13,996 --> 00:44:16,716 Speaker 1: punching marriage and Press Marriviach was on his back and 678 00:44:17,156 --> 00:44:19,916 Speaker 1: it was just like and and I went and asked 679 00:44:19,956 --> 00:44:21,796 Speaker 1: him about it because I knew about it when I 680 00:44:21,836 --> 00:44:23,196 Speaker 1: was playing for him. It was like part of the 681 00:44:23,276 --> 00:44:26,156 Speaker 1: legend of Billy Fitzgerald. And he said, and he said 682 00:44:26,196 --> 00:44:35,316 Speaker 1: to me that never happened. Holy shit, So it did happen.