1 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. He says it all started 2 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:18,920 Speaker 1: with a chemical taste in his mouth, But I disagree. 3 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:25,120 Speaker 1: I think that there were neon flashing signs long before 4 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: he had a chemical taste in his mouth. Take a 5 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:32,760 Speaker 1: listen to our friends at Casel Jack. Chen's lawyer says 6 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 1: his client has been sick for months, so he started 7 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:41,479 Speaker 1: to have unusual symptoms back in about the spring of 8 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:45,240 Speaker 1: this year March and April, and went in to get 9 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 1: checked by a doctor and founded that he had had 10 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 1: some physical effects and started to then connect the dots. 11 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 1: Connect the dots, chemical taste in his mouth, road signs clues, 12 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 1: a trail of my l wide. That's what I'm talking about. 13 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 1: Listen to our friends at ABC seven. Chen claims she 14 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 1: demanded massages and when he refused, quote she stepped on 15 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:12,399 Speaker 1: my head until I did and began hiding money from me. 16 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:15,480 Speaker 1: The statements also detail the treatment of their eight year 17 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:18,200 Speaker 1: old daughter and seven year old son, claiming she'd tell 18 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 1: them you are so ugly, you look like a pig, 19 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 1: or you are a sissy, and would yellow phrase at them, 20 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 1: meaning go die. It describes you using sleep deprivation to 21 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 1: punish their kids. Okay, whoa telling your child you look 22 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:39,480 Speaker 1: like a pig. You're a sissy. Go die. It's everything 23 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:42,040 Speaker 1: I can do to get the twins to go to bed, 24 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:47,319 Speaker 1: much less punish them with sleep deprivation and then the 25 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 1: so called chemical taste in his mouth. Take a listen 26 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 1: to our friend Michelle gilet ksel nine Jack chen allege's 27 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 1: long time verbal, physical, and emotional abuse against his wife, 28 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 1: which extends to their two children. Quote. If our children 29 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 1: let Emily know that they enjoyed spending time with me 30 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 1: or showed affection toward me, then Emily would put them 31 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 1: in their room and yell at them until they assured 32 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:20,079 Speaker 1: her they would not show affection toward me. Okay, if 33 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 1: you think you have problems in your marriage, did you 34 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:25,799 Speaker 1: hear all of that? Then you wake up one morning 35 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:29,120 Speaker 1: with a chemical taste in your mouth. I'm Nancy Grace. 36 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us 37 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 1: here at Fox Nation and Serious XM one eleven. That 38 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 1: phrase keeps going through my mind. I woke up with 39 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:46,359 Speaker 1: a chemical taste in my mouth. You know I've got 40 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:49,680 Speaker 1: an incredible panel lined up to break it down and 41 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 1: put it back together again for you, But first I 42 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:55,799 Speaker 1: want to go to a long time friend and colleague, 43 00:02:56,280 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 1: an awesome parent, and a man who puts his money 44 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 1: where his mouth is. He's not just fighting addiction in 45 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 1: our country, he has actually created a mobile addiction unit. 46 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 1: He travels all over the country fighting addiction with me. 47 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 1: Right now, Doctor William Maroney, chief medical examiner out of Michigan, 48 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 1: author of American Narcan, Doctor Moroney, is a real honor 49 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 1: to have you. But before I go on and on 50 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 1: about you, what could cause? What are the many things 51 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 1: that could cause a chemical taste in one's mouth? The 52 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:41,119 Speaker 1: regular flavors that you would expect are cinnamon, ginger, chocolate, coffee. 53 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:47,119 Speaker 1: But chemical tastes mean there's a chemical or there's some 54 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 1: kind of metallic substance. Okay, now wait a minute, doctor Moroney. 55 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 1: Doctor Maroney, yes again, I'm just a JD and you're 56 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 1: the MD. But I could have said everything you just said. 57 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 1: I'm expecting some medical doctor expertise, wisdom coming from your 58 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 1: mouth right now. I mean, I wouldn't think of a 59 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 1: chemical taste. It is a flavor number one. You said cinnamon, 60 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 1: you said chocolate, you said a couple of other things 61 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 1: that are yummy. But when I think chemical, I don't 62 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:22,280 Speaker 1: think yummy. Is this something like when you take a 63 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:24,360 Speaker 1: pill the doctor wants you to take and it makes 64 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:26,800 Speaker 1: your mouth taste back. One of the reasons why we 65 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 1: swallow our pills and we don't put them in our 66 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 1: mouth over long periods of time is that all chemicals 67 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:40,600 Speaker 1: used in medicine taste bitter, they taste metallic, they taste chemical, 68 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:43,719 Speaker 1: so they package it up and put it in something 69 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 1: to let it go in your stomach quickly. If you 70 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 1: have a medicine, it tastes bad. So that usually means 71 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:52,479 Speaker 1: if you have a taste in your mouth, you've been 72 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:57,359 Speaker 1: given a chemical maybe a poison. Would anything in nature, 73 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:03,359 Speaker 1: I can't think of any like Okay, say you have 74 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:06,839 Speaker 1: Italian or you like you said, have chocolate or cinnamon 75 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:11,800 Speaker 1: or vanilla. You don't get a chemical taste in your mouth. No, 76 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 1: you get chemical tastes from chemicals. That's exactly where something foreign, 77 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:21,840 Speaker 1: something synthesized, you know. To Karen Stark joining me. Karen 78 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 1: Stark is renowned psychologists joining us out of Manhattan. You 79 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:30,040 Speaker 1: can find her at Karen's psych And that's Karen with 80 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:33,599 Speaker 1: a See Karen, did you hear what he's saying about 81 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:35,799 Speaker 1: what's going on in their home? Forget the chemical tastes. 82 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 1: Really hard for me to get that out of my mind. 83 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:42,320 Speaker 1: This guy wakes up with this horrible taste in his mouth. Chemical. 84 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:44,600 Speaker 1: I mean, I can understand if he went to bed 85 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:47,839 Speaker 1: without brushing his teeth, or he got up and he 86 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:50,359 Speaker 1: might taste like dinner the night before, or if he 87 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 1: had coffee that morning. But chemicals, there's nothing good about that. 88 00:05:56,120 --> 00:06:01,279 Speaker 1: But did you hear the other stuff calling their children pig? 89 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:05,680 Speaker 1: You look like a pig. You're a sissy? Go die? 90 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 1: You know it makes you wonder, Nancy, what was he 91 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 1: doing at Leasta Nicks Melander? Why was he there for 92 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 1: so long? Well? Why wait? Wait, are you somehow blaming 93 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:17,840 Speaker 1: him because the wife is calling the child a pig? No, 94 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 1: I'm blaming you, say why was he there so long? Well? 95 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 1: Why does she call him a pig? Can we just 96 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 1: start with her? It came out of her mouth, not his. 97 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:29,479 Speaker 1: Why is she calling her children a pig? I mean, 98 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 1: have you ever gone to Nascar? Karen Stark? Somehow I 99 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 1: think the answer is going to be no, have you 100 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 1: ever been a Nascar? Okay? No? All right, all right, 101 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:41,719 Speaker 1: maybe Formula one for you? But doctor Moroney. You know 102 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:44,360 Speaker 1: in NASCAR where they waved the big flag and the 103 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 1: race is off. Yes, okay, So if my husband said 104 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 1: go die to one of the children, I mean I 105 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 1: made it very clear, Karen Stark, have you okay, let 106 00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:00,159 Speaker 1: me try something you can relate to. Karen joining me 107 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 1: from your high rise office in Manhattan. Have you ever 108 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:07,720 Speaker 1: seen Parent Trap? Oh? Okay, now I guess you saw 109 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 1: the old one with Hanley Males. Have you seen the reboot? Okay, 110 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 1: my jog that's her favorite movie. So I can't extrapolate 111 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 1: onto you. She makes me watch it like every other month. 112 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 1: The reboot okay, and the reboot. The husband, you know, 113 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 1: the boyfriend I think it's Dennis Quaid. Is he's Dennis 114 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 1: Quaid and he has a new hot girlfriend and she 115 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 1: of course doesn't get along with his twins, who are 116 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 1: Lindsay Lohan and Lindsay Lohan. And she says, look, it's 117 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 1: either them or me pick and he very quickly says them, 118 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 1: I think them. So, I mean, you know, you call 119 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 1: my child a pig. You're out bam. So I kind 120 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 1: of see what you're saying. Karen's Stark, But can we 121 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 1: instead of focusing on him. Can we talk about her 122 00:07:56,520 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 1: why she called the children pig? Because obviously this no 123 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 1: doubt about it. Nancy, there's something wrong with a mother. 124 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 1: Oh what is what's with the experts today? Okay? Doctor 125 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:11,080 Speaker 1: Moroney says, you get a chemical taste in your mouth 126 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 1: because you've eaten a chemical Okay, all those eight years 127 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 1: of education right down the crapper. And then Karen start 128 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 1: Yes says she calls her shoulder a pig because there's 129 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 1: something wrong with her. Okay. I could tell Jerry that Karen, 130 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 1: she's an narchists. Nancy, Oh, you love to throw that 131 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:33,080 Speaker 1: one out. I've never had a single defendant that you 132 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 1: didn't say was a narcissist. And doctor Bethany Marshall always 133 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 1: says there's sex, sex, massive ship. I don't know what 134 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 1: she says, bondage and everything. So explain to me, why 135 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:45,840 Speaker 1: would you say that to your child? Go die, you're 136 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 1: a pig? Okay. Somebody who had absolutely no conscience would 137 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 1: say that to their children, somebody who something is wrong 138 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 1: with her. I know you're saying that's what anyone could say, 139 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 1: but anyone would not be a mother who would speak 140 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:09,319 Speaker 1: that way to their children. She doesn't have that kind 141 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 1: of assets. You'ven't had that kind of sympathy and empathy 142 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:15,760 Speaker 1: to be able to understand. There you go. Hold on, 143 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:20,080 Speaker 1: I've actually finally, Maroney, I'm writing down a note, and 144 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:22,960 Speaker 1: it's not because of anything you said, no offense, no 145 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 1: sympathy or empathy. Now I'm getting somewhere because Matthew Mangino 146 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 1: joining me, high profile lawyer or former district attorney, former 147 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:36,080 Speaker 1: parole board member. I don't like that part, and author 148 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 1: of the executioner's toll Matthew Mengino dot com. Matthew, You've 149 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:48,240 Speaker 1: handled so many cases that escalate into something horrible, that 150 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 1: start with little things like what you say to each other, 151 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 1: what you how you address your children. Her calling her 152 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:01,199 Speaker 1: child a pig, you look like a pig. You're as 153 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 1: Sissy go die to me, that's the begain, the tiny 154 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 1: little nick that turns into a crack, that turns into 155 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 1: a giant cavern that you can't cross. Well, Nancy, we 156 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 1: know that she called the children a pig only because 157 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 1: of what her husband has said in a restraining order. Okay, 158 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:30,400 Speaker 1: so we have to rely on her husband. Doctor Chen 159 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 1: is telling the truth. To be honest, I'm a little 160 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:38,440 Speaker 1: skeptical about this whole situation. If he has been the 161 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 1: subject of physical abuse, if the children were subject to 162 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 1: emotional abuse, why didn't he seek a restraining order earlier? 163 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 1: He had that opportunity. Okay, Matthew Mangine and hold it 164 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 1: right there with me, private investigator at Mona Kay at 165 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 1: Mona Kay Investigations joining us out of Omaha Mona. You 166 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 1: have handled so many domestic investigations. In my mind, you're 167 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:08,480 Speaker 1: hearing Matthew Maino say why did he file a tr earlier? 168 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:10,720 Speaker 1: Why did he stick around and take it? He could 169 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:14,319 Speaker 1: say that about every person that did not file a 170 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:18,960 Speaker 1: tro or leave the marriage on the first incident. Right, Well, 171 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:24,680 Speaker 1: I agree, I'm a little suspect of the timing of 172 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 1: a lot of it. I worked hundreds of domestic cases 173 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:34,679 Speaker 1: where there are false allegations made and not saying that 174 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:37,720 Speaker 1: this is but you know, we're taking his word that 175 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:41,960 Speaker 1: these you know, this abuse took place, a verbal, physical 176 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 1: abuse toward himself and his kid. And I'm just wondering, 177 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:48,559 Speaker 1: you know, if over those last five to six years 178 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:51,240 Speaker 1: when he said that this was going on, especially with 179 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:54,840 Speaker 1: his kids, did he document, you know, any of this, 180 00:11:55,040 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 1: did he record any of it audio video time stories 181 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:20,200 Speaker 1: with Nancy Greece Monique joining me, very well known private 182 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 1: investigator out of Omaha. I guess you and Matthew Mangino. 183 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 1: I don't like what you're saying, but you're right. If 184 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 1: you're going to go, if you're going to file a 185 00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 1: t r O and go into court, you have to 186 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:38,720 Speaker 1: explain why you've waited five or six years to do that. Also, 187 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:41,960 Speaker 1: you have the issue that it's much less likely for 188 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:46,320 Speaker 1: a judge wrong or right to believe a man that 189 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 1: says he has been abused or mistreated. Okay, for you 190 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:58,319 Speaker 1: doubting Thomas's, that would be Matthew Mangino, high profile lawyer 191 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:03,239 Speaker 1: and private investigator. Okay, all right, fine, you don't necessarily 192 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:06,960 Speaker 1: believe she called her children a pig and said go die. 193 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 1: Take a listen to our good friend Amy roboc At GMA. 194 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:14,840 Speaker 1: According to the court documents, Chen says he started noticing 195 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:17,959 Speaker 1: a chemical taste in my lemonade in March and April, 196 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 1: seeing a doctor who diagnosed him with two stomach ulcers, gastritis, 197 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 1: and esophagitis. After installing hidden cameras in the kitchen, he says, 198 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:30,080 Speaker 1: I obtained footage of Emily poisoning me on three occasions. 199 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 1: The images allegedly show you taking a bottle of Draino, 200 00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:36,679 Speaker 1: a chemical drain cleaner, out of a cabinet and pouring 201 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 1: it into her husband's drinks on multiple occasions. Wow, that's subtle, 202 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:45,679 Speaker 1: pouring draino into lemonade, and you know what it reminded 203 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:48,559 Speaker 1: me of? To doctor William Roney, you and I have 204 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 1: discussed this case before. This is a case that I 205 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:57,280 Speaker 1: actually investigated and attended the trial and staked out the defendant. 206 00:13:57,320 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 1: Her name was land Turner. And here you got a 207 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 1: claim that draino was poured into lemonade, masking the flavor. 208 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:16,319 Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friends forensic files, cold hearted. 209 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:20,320 Speaker 1: It was quite obvious that mister Thompson died as a 210 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:25,720 Speaker 1: consequence of an acute ethylene glycol intoxication and poisoning. When 211 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 1: I found out Ranny had died from anti freeze poisoning, 212 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:32,240 Speaker 1: I knew. When they exumed Glenn's body, when they took 213 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 1: those tissues, I knew they were going to find out 214 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:39,120 Speaker 1: he died in the exact same causes. And that's precisely 215 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 1: what happened. Officials exhumed Glenn Turner's body, retested his tissue 216 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:50,000 Speaker 1: samples and confirmed there was a lethal amount of anti 217 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 1: freeze in his system. Anti freeze in jello? Was it 218 00:14:56,880 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 1: jello or Jello's shots? Was jello? Jello? Now you know? 219 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:07,320 Speaker 1: To you doctor William Moroni, chief medical examiner joining us 220 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:12,480 Speaker 1: out of Michigan and author, doctor Moroni, antaphrase has a 221 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 1: kind of a sweet taste, I understand, and that is 222 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:18,280 Speaker 1: why you want your car to leak in case a 223 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:21,760 Speaker 1: dog may come and tasted and think it's sweet. That 224 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 1: was hidden in jello by Land Turner. One dead husband, 225 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 1: one dead boyfriend, lots of insurance, and here we have 226 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 1: an allegation that draino was hidden in lemonade. Would that 227 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 1: work well? I think the number one thing is draino 228 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:48,760 Speaker 1: is sodium hydroxide. That's a very caustic chemical, and the 229 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 1: lemonade is acidic, so it kind of balances, but you're 230 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 1: going to get that chemical taste. And the stein that 231 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 1: he had guest ritis and ulcers completely matches sodium hydroxide 232 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:09,200 Speaker 1: exposure because it's caustic. It's going to eat through your stomach, 233 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:13,000 Speaker 1: it's gonna eat through your esophagus, and you really that 234 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 1: was the poison because it's acute. In small doses, it'll 235 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:23,560 Speaker 1: look like he's got reflex he's got gird, but it's 236 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 1: eating away parts of the stomach that are gonna bleed. 237 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:30,600 Speaker 1: Did you just say GERD GERD gastrosophageal reflux disease very 238 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 1: common and overweight people that have lent problems. I don't 239 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:38,560 Speaker 1: know that this guy's overweight, but I do know he 240 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:42,440 Speaker 1: had serious, serious stomach problems. Take a listen to our 241 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 1: friends at ksea L Her husband is a doctor as well, 242 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 1: and his name is Jack Chen. He has videos from 243 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 1: July eleventh, eighteenth, and twenty fifth allegedly showing his wife 244 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:57,840 Speaker 1: in their kitchen with a big bottle of Draino now. 245 00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 1: According to jack Chen's lawyer, in one of the clips, 246 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:05,720 Speaker 1: you can see Chen's wife removing a piece of sorand 247 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:09,680 Speaker 1: wrap that was placed over Chen's lemonade drink. She then 248 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:13,639 Speaker 1: pours Draino allegedly into that cup and puts the sand 249 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:17,439 Speaker 1: rap back on top. She tried to kill him, poisoned 250 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 1: and irvine, husband says with draino, Doctor Jack Chen has 251 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:24,920 Speaker 1: three videos to prove his wife is behind it. According 252 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 1: to his lawyer, these are screenshots, which are contained in 253 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:32,359 Speaker 1: court documents from cameras hidden in the couple's kitchen in July. 254 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:36,160 Speaker 1: They allegedly show the suspect you you, who was also 255 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 1: a local physician, pouring drain cleaner into her husband's lemonade. 256 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 1: She takes up the bottle, she pours it in, she 257 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:45,200 Speaker 1: puts the cap back on, puts it back into the 258 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:48,360 Speaker 1: sec as though nothing else was happening in her day. 259 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:54,560 Speaker 1: It is very calm, very methodical. Okay, Mangino, Hi light 260 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 1: me now, all right, because now you're saying there's no 261 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:01,879 Speaker 1: evidence she called her children pig. She's caught on. You 262 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 1: know what, I'm going to go to a special guest 263 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:06,960 Speaker 1: joining us Matthew, Me and Gina, so you and mona 264 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 1: Quay private investigators can hear some more facts. Nathan Percy 265 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:14,240 Speaker 1: is with us crimate public safety reporter with Southern California 266 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 1: News Group, and you can find him on Twitter at 267 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:21,719 Speaker 1: Indeed Percy. Nathan. Thank you for being with us. Nathan Percy. 268 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 1: I'm really amazed that he lived long enough to actually 269 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:31,520 Speaker 1: set up surveillance video because it seems like he had 270 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 1: been poisoned over a period of time and was getting 271 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:39,240 Speaker 1: sicker and sicker and sicker. Nathan Percy joining US Southern 272 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:42,600 Speaker 1: California News Group started at the beginning, tell me everything. Yeah. 273 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:46,359 Speaker 1: According to his declaration the court documents, he said he 274 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:49,119 Speaker 1: noticed this chemical caste in March or April of twenty 275 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:51,520 Speaker 1: twenty two. I think you know, most of us here 276 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:54,880 Speaker 1: in Southern California are going with that March date. But 277 00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:57,399 Speaker 1: at some point between then and the time you put 278 00:18:57,440 --> 00:18:59,840 Speaker 1: the cameras up, was that doctor's appointment where he was 279 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:06,199 Speaker 1: diagnosed with the ulcers, the gastritis and the esophagitis, and 280 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:09,840 Speaker 1: those kind of confirmed his suspicions that maybe his wife 281 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:13,199 Speaker 1: was putting something into his drink, into his drinks in 282 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:15,040 Speaker 1: the morning. Hold on just a second. I want to 283 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:18,359 Speaker 1: try to digest what you're saying, Nathan Percy joining ME 284 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:20,880 Speaker 1: crime A public safety reporters like drinking from the fire 285 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:24,520 Speaker 1: hydra too much too fast. Hold on, Nathan to doctor 286 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:29,679 Speaker 1: William Moroney, joining US Ulcers, gastritis, and esophagitis. Is that 287 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:32,959 Speaker 1: what he just said? And what is that? That's exactly 288 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:37,359 Speaker 1: what would look like from being given drano. Drain eats 289 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:41,760 Speaker 1: away at the tissues inside of the stomach. It eats 290 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 1: away at the tissues in your esophagus, the tube that 291 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 1: goes down from your mouth to your stomach, and it 292 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:51,920 Speaker 1: looks like maybe there's just too much acid. He has 293 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 1: reflex acid. And the reason why she picked Draino is 294 00:19:57,119 --> 00:20:02,280 Speaker 1: sodium hydroxide cannot be found in tests like if you're 295 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:07,080 Speaker 1: being poisoned with arsenic or cyanide or rat poison or 296 00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:14,000 Speaker 1: propylene glycol or formaldehyde, you don't see it's it's natural 297 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:17,240 Speaker 1: chemical elements. Okay, wait a minute, you just made a 298 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:21,119 Speaker 1: long list of chemicals and substances. Are you saying, for instance, 299 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:25,000 Speaker 1: formaldehyde would show up in tests and Drano would not, 300 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:28,320 Speaker 1: or that they would both show up. Drano won't show up. 301 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:32,760 Speaker 1: It's sodium hydroxide. And I believe that Nathan Percy is 302 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:37,240 Speaker 1: a very strong indicator as to why we cannot discount 303 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 1: the fact that the suspect of the wife, the mother 304 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:43,800 Speaker 1: of jack Chen, Emily, she goes by Emily, is also 305 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 1: a doctor. So she would very well know exactly what 306 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 1: doctor Moroney's talking about. They would run the panels and 307 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:55,879 Speaker 1: nothing would show up. Yeah, you'd have to think that 308 00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 1: she would have some indication or some knowledge of that 309 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 1: she works as a dermatologist out of a Mission Viejo clinic, 310 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:06,199 Speaker 1: and he works as a radiologist. So you'd have to 311 00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 1: imagine that they if she doesn't know it directly, they 312 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 1: share notes on things, and she would have some knowledge 313 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:17,400 Speaker 1: of of, you know, what would happen if a chemical 314 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:21,119 Speaker 1: was added to someone's drink, particularly you know, dreano. Do 315 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:24,200 Speaker 1: you know where they live, Nathan, Yeah. They live in Irvine, 316 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 1: which is normally a pretty quiet city, which is surprising 317 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:32,120 Speaker 1: because it's you know, about three three hundred thousand residents. 318 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:36,200 Speaker 1: It's in southern Orange County. There's not a lot that 319 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:39,479 Speaker 1: happens down there in the way of violent crime or 320 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:42,040 Speaker 1: things like that. There are some domestic things that happen 321 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 1: every now and then, and we get a lot of 322 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:47,280 Speaker 1: Most of our reporting down there, from my experience, has 323 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:50,440 Speaker 1: been traffic collisions and things like that. But they live 324 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:55,159 Speaker 1: also in a pretty pricing neck of the woods. Nathan Percy. Yeah, 325 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:58,199 Speaker 1: from from what we understand, it's multimillion dollar homes in 326 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 1: that area. It's it's in the southern portion of the city. 327 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:05,560 Speaker 1: They live kind of in between two universities you see, 328 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:10,160 Speaker 1: Irvine and Concordia University UM. And yeah, it's Uh, it's 329 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 1: it's a nice area down there. It's. Uh, there's a 330 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:17,080 Speaker 1: there's a big Asian population in Irvine. Um. It's about 331 00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:20,639 Speaker 1: forty three forty four percent according to the latest twenty 332 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:25,600 Speaker 1: twenty one census Quick Facts. UM. And and again it's 333 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:28,399 Speaker 1: for being such a big city. It's it's usually pretty quiet. 334 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:32,439 Speaker 1: You know, I'm just thinking through something. UM. Let me 335 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 1: go to you, Karen, start joining me. Psychologists joining us 336 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 1: out of Manhattan. Karen, you and I, UM have seen 337 00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:48,720 Speaker 1: where one poisoning is not enough, where the perp will 338 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:55,919 Speaker 1: poison a spouse than poison a child. And very often, 339 00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 1: like with Lynn Turner that I just showed you one 340 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,679 Speaker 1: poisoning of the husband was not enough, and then she 341 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 1: went on to poison her boyfriend. It's almost as if 342 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:11,720 Speaker 1: it's an illness. And I don't mean insanity. I mean, 343 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:14,440 Speaker 1: for instance, I've always said, and anybody jump in if 344 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:17,800 Speaker 1: you disagree, Matthew Mangina, you may. And all the years 345 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 1: I prosecuted and read literally thousands of case files, I 346 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:28,360 Speaker 1: determined that sex offenders and burglars could not be rehabilitated. 347 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:33,119 Speaker 1: There's something about the thrill of burglarizing something going in 348 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,719 Speaker 1: when nobody's around. You just oat and peeping tom's. But 349 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,960 Speaker 1: I love them. In with sex offenders, they cannot be 350 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 1: rehabilitated doesn't mean they're insane. It just means it's almost 351 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:51,000 Speaker 1: like a compulsion. And I think that about poisoners. I 352 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:53,639 Speaker 1: think very often once they get started, there will be 353 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 1: another victim, such as a child, Karen Well Nancy. That 354 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:02,760 Speaker 1: has to do with that thrill that you're talking about 355 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:07,120 Speaker 1: of actually thinking that you have the power to control 356 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 1: someone's life. And then the thrill comes actually from watching 357 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:15,720 Speaker 1: somebody gets thicker and thicker. And here you're talking about 358 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:18,960 Speaker 1: a woman who's an abuser to begin with. Is that 359 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 1: alleged abuts with the way that she treats her children 360 00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 1: and her husband. And on top of that, there's that excitement. 361 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:31,479 Speaker 1: She's a doctor. She knows exactly what she's doing, and 362 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:35,119 Speaker 1: she knows the effect that it's having on his body, 363 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:39,280 Speaker 1: how it's making him sick, and so there's an excitement 364 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:43,560 Speaker 1: to realizing that she has the power, the control to 365 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 1: be able to take life in this way. Doctor Marino, 366 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:48,119 Speaker 1: let me tell you a question for all is this 367 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:52,719 Speaker 1: thought I first heard of serial poisoners, Believe it or not, 368 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 1: In my hometown of Macon, Georgia. My mother before she 369 00:24:57,720 --> 00:24:59,879 Speaker 1: worked herself up from a bank teller to be a 370 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 1: CFO of a company. She worked at a bank across 371 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:08,800 Speaker 1: from the courthouse, and everybody would go eat lunch, all 372 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:12,880 Speaker 1: the judges, the sheriffs, the prosecutors, the lawyers at this 373 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:18,080 Speaker 1: diner called a jets Well. And Jett ended up being 374 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:22,879 Speaker 1: convicted of poisoning two husbands, one mother in law, and 375 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:28,440 Speaker 1: one child or two children. And then she was convicted 376 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:32,119 Speaker 1: and she went to the state Penitentiary for women and 377 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:37,920 Speaker 1: became the head of the cafeteria. True story. That's where 378 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:40,920 Speaker 1: I have this in my head that once you start 379 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:44,560 Speaker 1: with the poisoning, you very often can't stop. So have 380 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,639 Speaker 1: you ever seen a poisoning victim? Have you done an 381 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:52,160 Speaker 1: autopsy on a poisoning victim? Doctor Moroni? Yeah, of poisoning 382 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:56,159 Speaker 1: victims that go to autopsy are usually bizarre, strange things, 383 00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:02,919 Speaker 1: rat poisoning, mercury. We've seen in hute exposures to you know, 384 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:07,960 Speaker 1: a pesticides, farmers in the fields, things like that, And 385 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:12,400 Speaker 1: if it's very low doses, people don't catch on. And 386 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,680 Speaker 1: like I said before, you know that sodium hydroxide that's 387 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:20,080 Speaker 1: the chemical taste in your mouth. It's it's caustic, it's lie, 388 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:25,399 Speaker 1: it's very basic, and it's very corrosive. And if you 389 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,920 Speaker 1: gave enough sodium hydroxide once, when they cut you open 390 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 1: an autopsy, they would find it. It would be a 391 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:35,159 Speaker 1: clump of stuff and it'd be identifiable. But if you 392 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,880 Speaker 1: give it in low doses, you cause holes in the stomach, 393 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:42,920 Speaker 1: holes in the esophagus, and people bleed internally. I mean, 394 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:45,119 Speaker 1: when you look at that as a doctor, would you 395 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:48,440 Speaker 1: know it's from poisoning or would you suspect more natural causes? 396 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 1: It looks like too much acid. You're you're you're having 397 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:55,520 Speaker 1: ulcers because you make too much acid and you eat 398 00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 1: the wrong foods. But if you if somebody poisoned you 399 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:03,520 Speaker 1: in a big chunk, a big mando piece, you'd see 400 00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:05,359 Speaker 1: that piece would still be there and it would be 401 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 1: sent to the layout. Is that a technical medical term? 402 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:13,080 Speaker 1: A big quote mando piece? Okay, I'm writing that down 403 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:15,440 Speaker 1: and I will use that against you later. Guys, take 404 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:18,159 Speaker 1: a listen to our friends at ABC seven. This is 405 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:22,240 Speaker 1: Irene Cruz. Radiologist Jack Chen says he noticed a chemical 406 00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:24,679 Speaker 1: taste in his drinks in March, he set up a 407 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:28,000 Speaker 1: hidden camera in their kitchen, capturing video evidence of his 408 00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:32,240 Speaker 1: wife you you allegedly taking drainoe from under the sink 409 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:36,119 Speaker 1: and pouring it into his lemonade in three separate instances. 410 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:40,840 Speaker 1: In July, a doctor diagnosed Chin with two stomachless gastritis 411 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:46,280 Speaker 1: esophagus inflammation. Wow. Straight back out to our investigative reporter 412 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,720 Speaker 1: joining us. So not just once, not just twice, but 413 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 1: three times that we know of that we're caught on camera. 414 00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 1: The Lord only knows how many times she did it 415 00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,720 Speaker 1: before with me Nathan Percy joining us some southern California 416 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,960 Speaker 1: is a great three times? Tell me where was the 417 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:05,439 Speaker 1: hidden camera placed in the kitchen? Do we know? So? 418 00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:08,880 Speaker 1: He from the documents that we see, he had two 419 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 1: cameras in the kitchen. The main one that allegedly shows 420 00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:16,439 Speaker 1: her pouring the draino into his drinks is kind of 421 00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:18,760 Speaker 1: a wide ranging view. It looks like it's maybe in 422 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:23,240 Speaker 1: the corner like by a hallway, that shows the entire kitchen. 423 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,160 Speaker 1: He had a second one that he also placed underneath 424 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 1: the kitchen sink, right next to the draino bottle. And 425 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:32,919 Speaker 1: there's a couple of screenshots that were included in his 426 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:37,199 Speaker 1: court documents that showed allegedly, you know, her hand reaching 427 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 1: in to grab the draino bottle from underneath the sink. 428 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:43,920 Speaker 1: So the first one is kind of a more wide ranging. 429 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:45,760 Speaker 1: Those are the ones that you've kind of seen on 430 00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 1: the news, and you've seen those camera angles where you've 431 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:52,080 Speaker 1: got kind of a view from the far side and 432 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:55,120 Speaker 1: it's pointing towards kind of a back screen door, backsliding 433 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,440 Speaker 1: door with the sink on the right side and the 434 00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:03,160 Speaker 1: cabinets and that on the left. So that was the 435 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 1: one that kind of that their alleging shows the entire 436 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:27,160 Speaker 1: act taking place, Time stories with Nancy Grace, Nathan Percy 437 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,760 Speaker 1: joining US Southern California News Group. You've seen the other one, 438 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:35,080 Speaker 1: that's the close up camera according to you from the 439 00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:38,440 Speaker 1: court documents that you've read, is right there with the 440 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:41,160 Speaker 1: draino and you see a hand reach in and get 441 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:44,640 Speaker 1: the draino and then I guess he is matching that 442 00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:49,280 Speaker 1: up with a wide range shot of her coming in 443 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:53,680 Speaker 1: and out of the kitchen. Question how were the cameras 444 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:57,600 Speaker 1: hidden that? I don't know at this point. I'm not 445 00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:01,480 Speaker 1: sure exactly what he did to seal them. Um I know, 446 00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:04,520 Speaker 1: the one in the kitchen sink is off to the side. Um, 447 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:08,160 Speaker 1: you know kind of I would, I would guess, you know, 448 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,680 Speaker 1: if you were looking from side to side when reaching 449 00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:12,600 Speaker 1: into the kitchen sink, you might be able to see it. 450 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:16,560 Speaker 1: But if you're just going in there, knowing what you're grabbing, 451 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:19,600 Speaker 1: you might not notice it. If you're just going after, 452 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,160 Speaker 1: you know, a bottle underneath the sink. Other than that, 453 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:25,280 Speaker 1: the other the other camera on the far side. I'm 454 00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:27,280 Speaker 1: not sure exactly what he did to conceal that one. 455 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:28,960 Speaker 1: You know what, I was just thinking about Mona K 456 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 1: joining me Pribavate, an investigator out of Omaha, Mona K 457 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:37,920 Speaker 1: the letter K Investigations. Mona I was just about to say, Wow, 458 00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:40,520 Speaker 1: she must have been crazy to reach down and get 459 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:42,920 Speaker 1: the drain I and I notice there's a video camera 460 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:48,200 Speaker 1: right there. Not true, Not true, because I was just 461 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 1: thinking about when I reach under the sink to get out, 462 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:54,040 Speaker 1: for instance, olive oil or whatever I'm getting out from 463 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:57,080 Speaker 1: from down under there. I don't look back in the 464 00:30:57,080 --> 00:30:59,600 Speaker 1: back of the sink. I don't look up at the 465 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 1: top of the cabinet that could be pointed down at 466 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:08,200 Speaker 1: the olive oil or really anywhere. Why wouldn't you? So 467 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:12,000 Speaker 1: that was pretty ingenious on his part. What I was 468 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,480 Speaker 1: coming to you about, Monique to comment on that. But 469 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:19,800 Speaker 1: I love secret cameras and they come and so Jack, 470 00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:25,640 Speaker 1: keep it careful. I'll see you in here drinking your coffee. Okay. 471 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:32,080 Speaker 1: But they are so now they're the size of, you know, 472 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,840 Speaker 1: the tip of a pin. You would never notice them. 473 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:38,360 Speaker 1: I mean you can get them in teddy bears, you 474 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:41,120 Speaker 1: can get them in clocks, you can put them on 475 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:45,040 Speaker 1: the oven and no one would ever notice that. Monaque, 476 00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:48,040 Speaker 1: do you use those a lot in your private investigation business? 477 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:50,600 Speaker 1: So yes, every once in a while we use those. 478 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:53,480 Speaker 1: But and they aren't very accessible to anybody. You can 479 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:57,440 Speaker 1: get them online m surveillance type stores. But you know 480 00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:01,480 Speaker 1: they come in all different sizes. They can be very 481 00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:04,520 Speaker 1: well hidden. You can you know, a ball point pin, 482 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,080 Speaker 1: a bob point pin can have a camera in it. 483 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:10,200 Speaker 1: I was just gonna say, Monaka, you and I discussed 484 00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:15,400 Speaker 1: the use of a recording ballpoint pen and the Suzanne 485 00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:20,520 Speaker 1: Morphew murder mystery. Remember she thought her husband, Barry Morphy 486 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,840 Speaker 1: was having an affair, so she had put a pin 487 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:28,440 Speaker 1: It looked like a ballpoint pen in his truck to 488 00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:32,720 Speaker 1: try to catch him talking to his girlfriend. So, I mean, 489 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:36,440 Speaker 1: it can look really like anything. So there's really no 490 00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,960 Speaker 1: telling how he had the husband had this disguise, and 491 00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:45,160 Speaker 1: thank god in Heaven he did. Or people like Matthew Mangino, 492 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:48,280 Speaker 1: high profile lawyer, would say exactly what he was saying 493 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:51,680 Speaker 1: at the beginning of her program. Just because she called 494 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:54,600 Speaker 1: her children pig and said go die, that doesn't mean 495 00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:59,120 Speaker 1: he was poisoned. I guarantee you. Mangino would argue a trial, 496 00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:03,520 Speaker 1: back me up and Gino that these ailments also his 497 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:09,480 Speaker 1: gastritis is selphagitis could have been caused naturally because Maroney 498 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:13,640 Speaker 1: says sodium hydroxide does not show up in the test. Well, great, 499 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:17,920 Speaker 1: and this is all too perfect. Nancy number one. I'd 500 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:20,480 Speaker 1: like to know what he told his doctor when he 501 00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:23,920 Speaker 1: went to see him. He suspected because of this taste, 502 00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:27,280 Speaker 1: this chemical taste in his mouth, that he was being 503 00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:30,000 Speaker 1: poisoned as far back as March. Did he tell his 504 00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:34,080 Speaker 1: doctor that was that something that you know his doctor 505 00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:37,960 Speaker 1: considered and with regard to this the cameras, this is 506 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:41,520 Speaker 1: just so perfect. I mean, you know, you have three 507 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,160 Speaker 1: different dates during the month of July. You know what, 508 00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:46,880 Speaker 1: you kill me? When I don't have a video, you 509 00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:48,920 Speaker 1: go like you can't prove it. When I do have 510 00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:52,040 Speaker 1: a video, you say it's too perfect you have a video. Well, Nancy, 511 00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:54,840 Speaker 1: think about this. If if you have these videos set 512 00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:57,600 Speaker 1: up and you're going to review these videos and you 513 00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:03,040 Speaker 1: see your spouse a draino in your drink on July eleven, Yeah, 514 00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:05,400 Speaker 1: you're gonna sit there for two more weeks and make 515 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:08,760 Speaker 1: sure I get some more documented evidence that I'm being poisoned. 516 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:10,600 Speaker 1: Or are you gonna say, oh yeah, if you're not 517 00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:13,520 Speaker 1: drinking it. I mean, I wouldn't eat or drink anything 518 00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,600 Speaker 1: in the whole house, but I wouldn't be very afraid 519 00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:20,520 Speaker 1: she might be poisoning the children. So let's just follow 520 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:26,880 Speaker 1: your irrationale through to its logical conclusion. You're saying, because 521 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:31,200 Speaker 1: he waited to catch her on video two more times, ergo, Therefore, 522 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:34,279 Speaker 1: what I'm not sure what's in that bottle or what 523 00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:37,960 Speaker 1: she's putting in the drink. I mean's she's so casual 524 00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:40,719 Speaker 1: about it. She pulls this bottle lot, walks over to 525 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:45,520 Speaker 1: the table, puts this substance in his hot lemonade, and 526 00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:47,880 Speaker 1: then puts it away. I mean, if I was trying 527 00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:50,279 Speaker 1: to poison somebody, I certainly try to be a little 528 00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:53,239 Speaker 1: more discreet about it. Maybe hide to make sure no 529 00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:56,840 Speaker 1: one sees me. Oh so the killer, the sneaky killer 530 00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:00,680 Speaker 1: is not sneaky enough from Matthew Man. You know, good 531 00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:03,000 Speaker 1: luck with that in front of a jury. Mangino, is 532 00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:08,320 Speaker 1: that maroney jumping in? Nobody recycled and reuses drain o bottles. 533 00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:12,560 Speaker 1: There's nothing. You have to find a place to put 534 00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:14,799 Speaker 1: the drain ol so it doesn't Yeah, maybe she was 535 00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:18,560 Speaker 1: storing the sugar in there. Mangino, Thank you, Maroni, thank 536 00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:22,359 Speaker 1: you for throwing me that bad light. There, guys, take 537 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,040 Speaker 1: a listen to our cut five. This is amy roadblock 538 00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:29,200 Speaker 1: at GMA. Chen's attorney speaking with GMA. This is an 539 00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:33,440 Speaker 1: incredibly intimate way to commit a murder. She had to 540 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:40,840 Speaker 1: know what his routine was, what his preferences were. A methodical, intimate, 541 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,800 Speaker 1: horrific way to murder some This is mind bob wing to. 542 00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:48,640 Speaker 1: Chen has also filed for divorce and requested full custody 543 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:52,279 Speaker 1: of the couple's two children, alleging Emily's parenting. If you 544 00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:58,600 Speaker 1: could call it that revolves around yelling insulting, verbally abusing, hitting, pushing, pulling, 545 00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:02,200 Speaker 1: and being emotionally use it. So back to you, Nathan 546 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:06,359 Speaker 1: Percy joining us with Southern California newscrip. You say, there's 547 00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:09,960 Speaker 1: the wide range of video that Matthew Mangino, you know 548 00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:13,400 Speaker 1: he's grasping at straws. You've got the wide range of 549 00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:15,280 Speaker 1: video of her coming in and out of the kitchen. 550 00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:19,440 Speaker 1: You have the close range video that's I guess in 551 00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:21,319 Speaker 1: the cabinet where you see the hand come in and 552 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:24,320 Speaker 1: get the draino. Do I understand, Nathan Percy that she 553 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:27,839 Speaker 1: actually had his lemonade prepared with saran wrap over it. 554 00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:29,720 Speaker 1: It's like she laid it all out the night before 555 00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:33,719 Speaker 1: or something that I'm not aware of. Unfortunately, I'm not 556 00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:36,799 Speaker 1: sure whether he had prepared it and at one point 557 00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:41,480 Speaker 1: started hold on Karen, start jump in. According to what 558 00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:44,760 Speaker 1: I read, he prepared the lemonade, he put the suran 559 00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:48,120 Speaker 1: rap on it, and then she took it off, added 560 00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:50,920 Speaker 1: the draino and by the way, I don't know what 561 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:54,719 Speaker 1: was so strange about the fact that she didn't hide it. 562 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,200 Speaker 1: She didn't know there was any camera on her, so 563 00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:00,320 Speaker 1: of course she was doing it and putting it away again. 564 00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:05,200 Speaker 1: And then what's interesting, Nancy, is that she stayed there 565 00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:09,239 Speaker 1: while he sat down. He came into the kitchen, sat 566 00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:13,680 Speaker 1: down prepared to drink it. So again, there's no feeling 567 00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:18,040 Speaker 1: there whatsoever about well, you know, maybe I'm causing harm 568 00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:22,319 Speaker 1: or I'm doing something terrible and I'm watching him do it. No, 569 00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:25,560 Speaker 1: she's happy to be watching him drink that drino. She 570 00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:27,400 Speaker 1: stayed there to watch him drink it. Is that what 571 00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:30,040 Speaker 1: you just said, Well, she was there while he was 572 00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:34,480 Speaker 1: sitting down and drinking to make sure het drank it. Monicue, 573 00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:36,759 Speaker 1: private investigator jump in. I just have a thought. How 574 00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:39,440 Speaker 1: many people in their own home, with their own family 575 00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:43,320 Speaker 1: members covered their drinks with soran rap and walk away 576 00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:46,480 Speaker 1: just to come back and take a drink. I mean, 577 00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:52,560 Speaker 1: wouldn't that alert her to maybe some suspicion on his part? Guys, Monique, 578 00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,879 Speaker 1: that's an excellent point. No, I do not put soran 579 00:37:55,960 --> 00:38:00,880 Speaker 1: rap over my drink. But you and Mangino keep trying 580 00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:04,200 Speaker 1: to defend her and put blame on the husband. He's 581 00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:08,839 Speaker 1: the one that has his stomach eaten up with acid, right, 582 00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:12,040 Speaker 1: I'm just saying that wouldn't he maybe be suspicious that 583 00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:15,480 Speaker 1: he was on to her also, Oh yeah, I say that. 584 00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:18,399 Speaker 1: I guess she was so hale bent on killing him 585 00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:21,400 Speaker 1: that she didn't notice. Or maybe that was his routine. 586 00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:24,319 Speaker 1: May maybe he made his drink and covered it up. 587 00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:28,000 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, he made the lemonade. He prepared it the 588 00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:30,840 Speaker 1: night before, is what I read. Anyway, And he puts 589 00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:34,080 Speaker 1: the rand rap over it. Now, guys, if you think 590 00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:37,080 Speaker 1: you've heard it all, listen to our cut toil from 591 00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:40,240 Speaker 1: casey Al When I was looking through the court papers. 592 00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:43,080 Speaker 1: What it said was that at one point she called 593 00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:45,120 Speaker 1: her husband and asked if he would bail her out, 594 00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:49,640 Speaker 1: but he refused. The district attorney has not filed charges 595 00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:54,200 Speaker 1: against her yet. I also learned today that jack Chen's 596 00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:57,280 Speaker 1: lawyer went to the jail when you you was still 597 00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:01,600 Speaker 1: in jail and presented her with the restraining order. She 598 00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:04,200 Speaker 1: seemed to be confused about all of it, and he 599 00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:07,759 Speaker 1: said to her, well, you've been poisoning your husband. That's 600 00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:12,200 Speaker 1: why we're getting a restraining order. She actually called the 601 00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:17,400 Speaker 1: husband she's been poisoning on video and asked him to 602 00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:21,319 Speaker 1: pay the bail to bond her out of jail. Is 603 00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:24,400 Speaker 1: that right, Nathan person, Yes, that is that. It is 604 00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:30,400 Speaker 1: also included in his declaration that he wrote in petitioning 605 00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:34,920 Speaker 1: for the temporary restraining order, which according to you know, 606 00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:37,600 Speaker 1: according to the court's website, was filed on August fifth, 607 00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:39,880 Speaker 1: which was one day after she was arrested by Irvine 608 00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:42,560 Speaker 1: police on August fourth. When is this going to court, Nathan. 609 00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:46,560 Speaker 1: There's a hearing on the temporary restraining order on August eighteenth, 610 00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:50,200 Speaker 1: and she's been ordered to stay at least one hundred 611 00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:52,479 Speaker 1: yards away from the three of them and their home 612 00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:55,279 Speaker 1: until at least that time when a hearing can be 613 00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:59,160 Speaker 1: when the hearing takes place, has she actually bonded out? Yeah, 614 00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:03,040 Speaker 1: so the the Irvine Police Department arrested her on suspicion 615 00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:06,879 Speaker 1: of poisoning. It wasn't. It wasn't unsuspicion of attempted murder 616 00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:09,920 Speaker 1: or anything like that. And I think for the criminal 617 00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:12,400 Speaker 1: aspect of it, that's kind of a big deal at 618 00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:15,920 Speaker 1: this point because the bail amount for that charge is 619 00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:18,480 Speaker 1: thirty thousand dollars, which you know, it would be much 620 00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:21,360 Speaker 1: higher if they were suspecting her of attempted murder. Who 621 00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:24,359 Speaker 1: is the district attorney that's sitting on these charges. He's 622 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:28,240 Speaker 1: not one of the woke das that won't prosecute anything 623 00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:30,880 Speaker 1: like gascon is. Oh no, the DA in Orange County 624 00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:34,360 Speaker 1: is Todd Spitzer. I've been in contact with his office 625 00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:38,720 Speaker 1: and they're reviewing the evidence in this case. They haven't 626 00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:43,480 Speaker 1: come to a conclusion on charges yet. Really, well, maybe 627 00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:46,719 Speaker 1: after she takes a shot at her husband they'll come 628 00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:50,400 Speaker 1: around with an attempted murder charge or three of them. 629 00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:54,040 Speaker 1: Good gravy that she's gone on video. What are they 630 00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:59,719 Speaker 1: waiting for? Okay, we wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace 631 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:05,800 Speaker 1: a story signing off goodbye friend m