1
00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:04,559
Speaker 1: Hello the Internet, and welcome to this special episode of

2
00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:12,600
Speaker 1: dais Silic production of My Heart Radio and Uh, I'm Jack.

3
00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:17,760
Speaker 1: That is Miles Um and today, in honor of Black

4
00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:23,680
Speaker 1: History Month, we wanted to tell some stories, uh of

5
00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:29,880
Speaker 1: underrated ways the black Americans throughout history created the modern zeitgeist.

6
00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:32,600
Speaker 1: And then we're you know, these are stories that I

7
00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:40,159
Speaker 1: didn't learn in my history education. Nobody learns any proper

8
00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:43,280
Speaker 1: black history in school, like unless you're unless you're fortunate

9
00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:45,879
Speaker 1: enough to go to a school where the faculty or

10
00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:49,960
Speaker 1: the administration there is like, no, we actually need a holistic,

11
00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:56,320
Speaker 1: well thought out, uh curriculum around the history of people

12
00:00:56,320 --> 00:00:59,680
Speaker 1: of color, black people through the lens of their experience,

13
00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:02,920
Speaker 1: rather than the oppressor's lens, which just like and they

14
00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:05,240
Speaker 1: wanted that and we gave it to them and now

15
00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:10,520
Speaker 1: they're good. Yeah yeah. Um. So one, let's let's just

16
00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:15,240
Speaker 1: kick off here with Bessie Coleman, who, uh, I think

17
00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:20,800
Speaker 1: one of the things from early twentieth century imagination that

18
00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:27,720
Speaker 1: we like can't quite appreciate is how into aviation people were.

19
00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:32,400
Speaker 1: Like people were obsessed with the I mean because they

20
00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:37,959
Speaker 1: flying had just been invented. People were super into that. Uh,

21
00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:42,840
Speaker 1: you know, fighter pilots in World War One. We're heroes. Um.

22
00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:47,080
Speaker 1: And you know, I think it's the closes. I could

23
00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:52,040
Speaker 1: come as like in the two thousand's tens, when like

24
00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:55,120
Speaker 1: it was really cool to be like in the tech industry,

25
00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:59,320
Speaker 1: and like how quickly that shifted. Uh. But instead of

26
00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:02,880
Speaker 1: just like you know, Mark Zuckerberg making a lot of money,

27
00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:06,200
Speaker 1: the people who are flying planes and like, you know,

28
00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:10,800
Speaker 1: being brave enough to experiment with the stuff, we're uh,

29
00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:15,639
Speaker 1: you know, doing heroic acts and winning wars. So it

30
00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:20,080
Speaker 1: was just a super central part of the you know,

31
00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:24,760
Speaker 1: collective imagination of Americans in the early twentieth century. Um.

32
00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:27,240
Speaker 1: And then you know, it developed so quickly that it

33
00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:32,760
Speaker 1: passed from humans rocketing through thin air to something we

34
00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:36,240
Speaker 1: get annoyed if it isn't fast and convenient enough, uh,

35
00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:39,120
Speaker 1: like in the span of fifty years. But at the time,

36
00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:41,800
Speaker 1: people were blown away by anybody who was going up

37
00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:46,200
Speaker 1: in the air. Um, people you know idolized them. And

38
00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:50,119
Speaker 1: that's where Bessie Coleman comes in. She was known as

39
00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:55,400
Speaker 1: uh Queen Bessie the Avia Tricks. Uh. She grew up

40
00:02:56,320 --> 00:03:01,880
Speaker 1: her parents were sharecroppers, uh, and then her dead basically

41
00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:06,480
Speaker 1: left the family, Uh, to go live on Native he

42
00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:10,119
Speaker 1: was part Native American, part African American, and he wanted

43
00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:16,560
Speaker 1: to live on tribal land because she was just terrible. Uh,

44
00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:21,080
Speaker 1: it was easier there, and it wasn't it wasn't easy there,

45
00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:25,799
Speaker 1: m but so yeah, like watching that evolution of her,

46
00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:30,720
Speaker 1: Like I love reading this anecdote about how she even

47
00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:35,040
Speaker 1: got into flying because that's whether fought in World War

48
00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:39,120
Speaker 1: One and was and was in France and saw what

49
00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:41,280
Speaker 1: what France was like. And he was like, Oh, the

50
00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:45,119
Speaker 1: ladies out they they're just doing ship. Yeah, like they

51
00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:47,880
Speaker 1: just they Okay, So he came back. It's like sucking

52
00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:50,119
Speaker 1: with his sister, Like yeah, you think your big time,

53
00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:55,400
Speaker 1: but in France he's like women are liberated and they

54
00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:58,000
Speaker 1: can't do any they can't even fly, And it's just

55
00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:01,000
Speaker 1: funny how it was. You know, I think in talking

56
00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:03,120
Speaker 1: about Black History stories and we were talking about this

57
00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:05,480
Speaker 1: off Mike and even thinking about like how we would

58
00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:08,680
Speaker 1: talk about, you know, contributions of African Americans are like

59
00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:11,280
Speaker 1: what a what an episode looks like about talking about

60
00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:14,480
Speaker 1: African American history in the context of a Black History

61
00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:20,919
Speaker 1: Month episode, and it's not just about realistical about interesting

62
00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:25,200
Speaker 1: things African American people have done, um, and sort of

63
00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:28,440
Speaker 1: juxtaposing that with how hard it is. I think most

64
00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:30,640
Speaker 1: people do that, but you have to take that extra

65
00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:34,880
Speaker 1: step to begin to actually think about It's not just that,

66
00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:38,039
Speaker 1: oh wow, it was so hard during this time. It's

67
00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:42,040
Speaker 1: that all of these like inspiring stories, all of these

68
00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:43,960
Speaker 1: art forms with a lot of things we're gonna talk about,

69
00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:48,960
Speaker 1: they're born out of the pursuit of black people seeking liberation,

70
00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:52,000
Speaker 1: seeking a way to be as free as they saw

71
00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:56,400
Speaker 1: other people, specifically white people. Um, whether that is from

72
00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:59,280
Speaker 1: the eras of slavery or Jim Crow. But there's this

73
00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:03,560
Speaker 1: yearning for the feeling of freedom, of liberation, and from

74
00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:09,800
Speaker 1: that you get such real deep stories or art forms

75
00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:13,680
Speaker 1: that are just so undeniable. So yeah, like so even

76
00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:16,120
Speaker 1: as I think about Bessie Coleman, it's like, yes, she

77
00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:20,119
Speaker 1: was there. Part of her pursuit of even like being

78
00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:26,920
Speaker 1: trained as a pilot was that she caught wind of liberation. Yeah, freedom, right,

79
00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:29,120
Speaker 1: And so she's asking, you know, I think she what

80
00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:31,560
Speaker 1: crowd funded a way to even get to France because

81
00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:33,440
Speaker 1: there's no way she was going to you know, get

82
00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:37,799
Speaker 1: herself to France. Um. In that time, people. She's the smart,

83
00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:40,560
Speaker 1: so smart like they you know, she got people to

84
00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:44,320
Speaker 1: believe in her to do it. But yeah, yeah, that's

85
00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:48,040
Speaker 1: it's it's like, it's fantastic to see like what it

86
00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:50,839
Speaker 1: takes to get there, but also not forgetting that it

87
00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:57,440
Speaker 1: is it's all intertwined with the tragedy of oppression, um.

88
00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:02,159
Speaker 1: And again the pursuit of freedom, just that feeling just

89
00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:05,640
Speaker 1: to to be you, and in this instance, it was

90
00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:09,239
Speaker 1: that she's a black woman in the country that forget

91
00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:13,680
Speaker 1: even just women being able to you know, become aviators, um.

92
00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:17,359
Speaker 1: But like that the other additional barrier of racism and

93
00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:19,080
Speaker 1: things like that, that you have to go to another

94
00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:21,840
Speaker 1: country that you're still even thinking like, but I still

95
00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:24,120
Speaker 1: want to be free, so then that means I have

96
00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:26,640
Speaker 1: to go to this place. So it's like, yeah, it's

97
00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:29,919
Speaker 1: like half tragedy half beauty, but it's also also really

98
00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:33,719
Speaker 1: you know, thinking of what all of these achievements actually

99
00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:37,120
Speaker 1: mean in the context of the continued pursuit of liberation

100
00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:39,640
Speaker 1: for black people and all people at this point, but

101
00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:43,120
Speaker 1: in test context, Yeah, and that tension between you know,

102
00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:46,719
Speaker 1: the tragedy of oppression, the beauty of the you know,

103
00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:50,280
Speaker 1: struggle and genius that people brought to the struggle for liberation.

104
00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:55,279
Speaker 1: That tension is the history of America, like that contradiction

105
00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:57,400
Speaker 1: is the history of America. It's not the history of

106
00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:01,880
Speaker 1: black America. It's the history of America, straight up like that.

107
00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:05,400
Speaker 1: And it gets edited out. And that's a disservice to

108
00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:08,560
Speaker 1: everyone when it gets edited out of the story of America.

109
00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:12,840
Speaker 1: It doesn't allow for a true understanding of American history.

110
00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:18,400
Speaker 1: Absolutely not. I mean you, the things I've learned just

111
00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:22,680
Speaker 1: from studying history are it's so mindblowing. Like that's the

112
00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:24,240
Speaker 1: one that the only reason you know, I went to

113
00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:27,000
Speaker 1: I went to college because you know, you're sort of

114
00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:29,680
Speaker 1: inundated this idea of like you must go to college

115
00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:32,440
Speaker 1: for get job, um, And so I did that, but

116
00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:33,840
Speaker 1: I didn't. I knew I didn't want to have like

117
00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:35,560
Speaker 1: being a count or whatever. I thought I was probably

118
00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:38,120
Speaker 1: gonna be some silly man at some point. But I

119
00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:40,119
Speaker 1: knew if I didn't do that, I wanted to teach history.

120
00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:41,920
Speaker 1: So I I studied a lot of history. I was

121
00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:44,960
Speaker 1: like my major. But like the things you learned just

122
00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:49,360
Speaker 1: about our everyday lives from understanding your history, it's so valuable,

123
00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:51,120
Speaker 1: and like the fact that you know, a lot of

124
00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:54,920
Speaker 1: the times these things are obscured or distilled or washed,

125
00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:58,720
Speaker 1: white washed in a certain way. Um yeah, it keeps

126
00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:01,680
Speaker 1: us from actually connecting to the real truth. Not to

127
00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:04,640
Speaker 1: say that it's like you need to know how ugly things,

128
00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:06,560
Speaker 1: I mean, you do, but you also need to know

129
00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:09,440
Speaker 1: that to be able to envision a better version of that,

130
00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:11,520
Speaker 1: because if you don't have that context, then you're kind

131
00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:14,320
Speaker 1: of you're trying to make something without a real West

132
00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:19,680
Speaker 1: recipe card. Yeah. So with regards to Bessie Coleman, you know,

133
00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:24,679
Speaker 1: crowdfunding again, when she came back knowing how to fly, Uh,

134
00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:28,600
Speaker 1: there weren't jobs for her. Uh, there weren't jobs for

135
00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:32,400
Speaker 1: black pilots. There weren't jobs for women pilots. Uh. And

136
00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:35,600
Speaker 1: so again she had to rely on the generosity of

137
00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:41,280
Speaker 1: others and basically fly in donated planes, which ends up

138
00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:45,280
Speaker 1: she one of them dies while it's in the air.

139
00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:48,240
Speaker 1: She crashes, breaks a bunch of bones. And then a

140
00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:54,160
Speaker 1: few years later another donated plane crashes and she dies young.

141
00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:59,079
Speaker 1: But she is a star. And I mean just with

142
00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:02,560
Speaker 1: we we talked about the the damage that's done by

143
00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:07,480
Speaker 1: white supremacy. Uh, you know, both with people of color,

144
00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:11,959
Speaker 1: but also on white people, and like the cognitive dissonance

145
00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:15,479
Speaker 1: that is, like that lie in their brain. And I

146
00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:18,040
Speaker 1: think that you know, that's also a battle that's being

147
00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:23,839
Speaker 1: waged across time. And anybody who you know that that

148
00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:26,960
Speaker 1: seat of doubt, anybody who comes in being like, no,

149
00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:30,360
Speaker 1: you know, a black woman couldn't fly a plane. Surely

150
00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:35,040
Speaker 1: this is the most complicated, uh difficult thing to do.

151
00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:37,880
Speaker 1: And that's something that you know, was taken into World

152
00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:40,760
Speaker 1: War two. That was still like the standard narrative and

153
00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:44,079
Speaker 1: World War two. And but anybody who saw her or

154
00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:47,760
Speaker 1: knew her or read about her, and the mainstream media

155
00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:51,400
Speaker 1: tried to edit her out of of history. But anybody

156
00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:54,600
Speaker 1: who saw that that you know, that seat of doubt,

157
00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:58,520
Speaker 1: you can't ignore that. That's that's gonna grow in your

158
00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:02,200
Speaker 1: mind and in like across the culture and well, and

159
00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:04,120
Speaker 1: I think in a way like you'll see this over

160
00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:06,320
Speaker 1: a lot of the topics we talk about. Like to

161
00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:09,640
Speaker 1: your point is, if you're on a diet of saying

162
00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:12,960
Speaker 1: that this group of people is inferior or less than you,

163
00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:18,720
Speaker 1: and you have to behold their humanity and genius, that

164
00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:22,720
Speaker 1: will do something to you. Some people can move past

165
00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:25,520
Speaker 1: and evolve and say, well I just took an l

166
00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:29,760
Speaker 1: intellectually there because I just I've left around and found

167
00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:35,200
Speaker 1: out um or you will go further into your denial. Um.

168
00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:38,359
Speaker 1: But yeah, but these are these moments that like that inspire,

169
00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:41,000
Speaker 1: and you know that it does doesn't end with Bessie Coleman,

170
00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:44,720
Speaker 1: Like there's she inspires. She continues to inspire even after

171
00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:49,439
Speaker 1: her death. Yeah, I mean there's a road around I

172
00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:53,280
Speaker 1: think Chicago hair named after her. But more importantly, I

173
00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:58,320
Speaker 1: mean within the black community, like aviation becomes a thing

174
00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:03,000
Speaker 1: that people are you know that that's just a concept

175
00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:07,560
Speaker 1: that people are pursuing, uh that you know, in small

176
00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:10,680
Speaker 1: part or no small part, Like it has an effect

177
00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:16,120
Speaker 1: that ends up with the Tuskegee airmen, who in World

178
00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:20,720
Speaker 1: War Two were you know, basically twice as good as

179
00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:25,800
Speaker 1: any other pilot in terms of they they fought. Uh,

180
00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:29,600
Speaker 1: they were great fighter pilots, shooting German planes down without

181
00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:34,000
Speaker 1: without losing any pilots or losing any planes. And then

182
00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:37,080
Speaker 1: like when they had to do bomber accompaniment, like which

183
00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:39,839
Speaker 1: is the hardest thing to do, they because you're all

184
00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:44,360
Speaker 1: going around the slow plane underneath the anti air artillery.

185
00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:49,480
Speaker 1: Just like out the sky. Yeah, they lost like half

186
00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:52,880
Speaker 1: as many planes as any other unit per per mission

187
00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:56,120
Speaker 1: and just had to be twice as good, which is

188
00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:59,800
Speaker 1: something that I mean, that's a trope throughout And you know,

189
00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:03,080
Speaker 1: I heard it from my own father, whose father told him,

190
00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:06,360
Speaker 1: you're when you are you have an awareness of what

191
00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:08,520
Speaker 1: it means to be black in America. You are told

192
00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:10,920
Speaker 1: you will have to be twice as good to get

193
00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:13,600
Speaker 1: half as much or in general, you have to be

194
00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:18,640
Speaker 1: twice as good to get noticed. And it's yeah, I mean,

195
00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:22,160
Speaker 1: you're you're watching. It's like even statistically there are people

196
00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:27,120
Speaker 1: were like twice as good for half the recognition. Yeah,

197
00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:30,080
Speaker 1: and even with Bessie Coleman, like to just touch on

198
00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:33,200
Speaker 1: liberation again, one of her biggest inspirations was that she

199
00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:36,240
Speaker 1: saw that black people were being left behind because they

200
00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:39,520
Speaker 1: could not get into aviation. But she really felt, she said,

201
00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:43,240
Speaker 1: for our people to keep pace with the rest of

202
00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:45,400
Speaker 1: the world, we have to find a way to get

203
00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:47,319
Speaker 1: into aviation as well. This is a new tech, like

204
00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:51,200
Speaker 1: we have to be there. And again, just it's about

205
00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:53,120
Speaker 1: like a lot of these people, it's not just like

206
00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:55,880
Speaker 1: oh I want to do this or that. It's really

207
00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:58,120
Speaker 1: about like we know that there is a way to

208
00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:01,880
Speaker 1: get something better for our people, and we're invested in

209
00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:05,840
Speaker 1: a country that is taking a really long time to

210
00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:09,440
Speaker 1: figure out what that is. And but the exactly to

211
00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:12,439
Speaker 1: your point, the entire you know, the pace of americandustry

212
00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:15,040
Speaker 1: is about this back and forth of like trying to

213
00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:20,760
Speaker 1: understand the racist origins with how they're we're also embracing

214
00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:24,200
Speaker 1: these cultures to be our own and what that means

215
00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:28,600
Speaker 1: and everything. So yeah, yeah, I mean the another kind

216
00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:31,520
Speaker 1: of military story is the Harlem hell Fighters that I mean,

217
00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:35,600
Speaker 1: we can touch on really briefly, but the American military

218
00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:39,480
Speaker 1: in World War One was like, we don't really want

219
00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:45,240
Speaker 1: segregary soldiers, very segregated, uh, And they lent this group

220
00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:48,720
Speaker 1: to the French military, to the French Army in World

221
00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:54,240
Speaker 1: War One, and they fought longer than any other group

222
00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:58,320
Speaker 1: of American soldiers in World War One. Also had a

223
00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:04,120
Speaker 1: military band that was incredibly influential in Europe when they

224
00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:07,440
Speaker 1: were there and then came back and was a huge

225
00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:13,760
Speaker 1: contributing factor to, uh, the Harlem Renaissance. But they came

226
00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:17,120
Speaker 1: back from the war being like, we more than proved ourselves.

227
00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:20,400
Speaker 1: There's a dude who was so amazing that they put

228
00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:24,840
Speaker 1: his face on UH war bond stamps like he was

229
00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:27,400
Speaker 1: a national hero. They came back and were like all right,

230
00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:30,400
Speaker 1: like so, I think they called it the Two Front

231
00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:33,320
Speaker 1: War where they wanted, you know, victory in Europe, but

232
00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:35,880
Speaker 1: then they wanted to come home and fight for victory

233
00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:41,520
Speaker 1: and they instead faced That was right at the time

234
00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:46,920
Speaker 1: when there was this huge white lash, as Van Jones

235
00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:54,120
Speaker 1: called the Trump uh election, which I think happens throughout history. Um,

236
00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:57,960
Speaker 1: but that was the There was the Red Summer, uh

237
00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:01,400
Speaker 1: so called because it was a very letty summer of

238
00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:06,680
Speaker 1: slaughters by white people against black families. And then there

239
00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:10,120
Speaker 1: was the Tulsa you know massacre. You know, that was

240
00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:14,600
Speaker 1: all happening. Then the resurgence of the KKK because you know,

241
00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:19,600
Speaker 1: there was just a pushback because of what supremacy, being

242
00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:25,080
Speaker 1: a you know, works hard. It is a self sustaining

243
00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:29,120
Speaker 1: force in the culture. And with this again you know

244
00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:33,920
Speaker 1: Harlem hell fighters they go, they fight longer and harder

245
00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:38,320
Speaker 1: than anyone, and they the American soldiers did didn't want

246
00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:40,560
Speaker 1: to be with them, so they had to get loaned

247
00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:42,880
Speaker 1: out to the French. They'll be like, well, I guess

248
00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:45,680
Speaker 1: they'll funk with you. Um, they didn't. They were not

249
00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:49,400
Speaker 1: allowed to participate in the sending off parade to go

250
00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:52,400
Speaker 1: to war. That was they were not They were not

251
00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:56,160
Speaker 1: given that dignity what to leave to fight and die.

252
00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:59,400
Speaker 1: They also experienced the most losses I believe for any

253
00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:02,480
Speaker 1: fighting unit. But then they but they came back and

254
00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:05,000
Speaker 1: they gave them a parade. And all this to say

255
00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:07,600
Speaker 1: is like again, like you're saying this double victory, this

256
00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:10,800
Speaker 1: idea of how African Americans can serve in the military

257
00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:15,600
Speaker 1: and have served since the American Revolution. But we don't

258
00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:18,920
Speaker 1: talk about that because I think it's probably ends with

259
00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:21,680
Speaker 1: like Christmas addics or something like that, and we think

260
00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:23,640
Speaker 1: of like, okay, well that that black man died in

261
00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:26,640
Speaker 1: the in the Boston massacre. Um. But when you talk

262
00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:30,480
Speaker 1: about this double victory, it's about, yes, defending a country

263
00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:34,000
Speaker 1: that has even has enslaved you. But it's because you

264
00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:37,760
Speaker 1: know that this could help people to see that you're

265
00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:40,800
Speaker 1: also pulling in the same direction as this country, and

266
00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:44,120
Speaker 1: you're you want to also this to contribute to a

267
00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:50,640
Speaker 1: larger movement for liberation, equality injustice that we can you

268
00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:54,640
Speaker 1: know what will go there will serve our country because Unfortunately,

269
00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:57,320
Speaker 1: we have to still prove to these people in the

270
00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:00,560
Speaker 1: Americans in America that we are also America kins that

271
00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:04,359
Speaker 1: deserve the same respect. But yeah, it's it's just like

272
00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:07,240
Speaker 1: it's just again it's a NonStop thing. But at every

273
00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:11,120
Speaker 1: level or at every point in history, we have these moments.

274
00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:14,040
Speaker 1: And I mean to think of just you know, the

275
00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:18,760
Speaker 1: contributions throughout most military conflicts of black soldiers, I would

276
00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:21,320
Speaker 1: blow most people's minds because it wasn't until maybe seven

277
00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:23,879
Speaker 1: years I was well out of college before I actually

278
00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:27,960
Speaker 1: began to see, starting back at the American Revolution, what

279
00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:32,479
Speaker 1: truly the contributions were in this you know military context. Yeah,

280
00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:36,240
Speaker 1: a lot of the even Tuskegee Airmen and the Harlem

281
00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:41,399
Speaker 1: health fighters had to be like honored, uh posthumously, and

282
00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:44,880
Speaker 1: we're only given recognition in like the two thousands or

283
00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:48,640
Speaker 1: by the Clinton administration in the nineties. And it's just like,

284
00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:51,720
Speaker 1: um right, I think that's why it's not enough to

285
00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:55,320
Speaker 1: just have kind of retrospective things about being like this

286
00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:57,960
Speaker 1: is what's cool about the people that did these things.

287
00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:01,520
Speaker 1: We also have to talk about how different even in

288
00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:04,960
Speaker 1: that time, people were not giving them props, Like like

289
00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:07,760
Speaker 1: it's happening now. It was a completely different era, but

290
00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:10,480
Speaker 1: also one that we have to look in its eye

291
00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:13,679
Speaker 1: to understand that there's we have to actually address this

292
00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:16,640
Speaker 1: and how are we, um, how can we correct and

293
00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:20,280
Speaker 1: improve how our you know, our country can move forward

294
00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:23,399
Speaker 1: and evolve, um in a way that truly is like

295
00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:25,800
Speaker 1: honoring the contributions of all these people were going to

296
00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:28,480
Speaker 1: talk about who just you know, even though it could

297
00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:32,040
Speaker 1: be about changing music or sports, it's all born out

298
00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:35,880
Speaker 1: of this singular feeling of wanting to be free and

299
00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:40,199
Speaker 1: that that is still owed um two black people in

300
00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:43,040
Speaker 1: this country. UM. But we're still trying to figure out

301
00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:45,920
Speaker 1: how we're going to do that. But even even though

302
00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:49,600
Speaker 1: with that said, still continue to to to make strides

303
00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:53,600
Speaker 1: and and create you know, these achievements or works of

304
00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:57,320
Speaker 1: art that just continue. Yeah, you mentioned music, and we're

305
00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:00,280
Speaker 1: going to talk about that next. But first let's take

306
00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:13,320
Speaker 1: a quick break and we'll be right back and we're back.

307
00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:17,840
Speaker 1: And you know, when when you talk about the history

308
00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:22,760
Speaker 1: of popular music in America, I think I had an

309
00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:27,800
Speaker 1: awareness that there's been a pervasive process of invention by

310
00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:31,920
Speaker 1: black Americans followed by theft and popularization by white artists

311
00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:39,200
Speaker 1: from Elvis to the Beastie Boys to Eminem two modern artists. Uh.

312
00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:42,320
Speaker 1: There's this article by Wesley Morris, the New York Times

313
00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:46,800
Speaker 1: critic about the history of music that that really like

314
00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:51,200
Speaker 1: makes it clear that this is like the primary story

315
00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:53,560
Speaker 1: of like like we were saying, it's not just the

316
00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:57,479
Speaker 1: story of black history, it's the story of American history.

317
00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:01,879
Speaker 1: And this is the story of of American music. Like

318
00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:04,840
Speaker 1: he in this article, he points out that like there

319
00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:10,480
Speaker 1: wasn't really an American music prior to the minstrel show,

320
00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:14,600
Speaker 1: like that that was a thing like Americans were into,

321
00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:20,760
Speaker 1: like you know, just really European classic exactly like Polka

322
00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:27,040
Speaker 1: and Uh. And then this white actor T. D. Rice

323
00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:31,719
Speaker 1: claimed he saw old black man on a farm like

324
00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:36,600
Speaker 1: working with a horse and like imitated his singing and

325
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:42,720
Speaker 1: put black burnt cork on his face and birthed like

326
00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:47,720
Speaker 1: the audiences called him back for twenty encores. Which I

327
00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:50,920
Speaker 1: think that's an important detail because that is like he

328
00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:56,280
Speaker 1: hit something that was so like desperately craved in by

329
00:20:56,600 --> 00:21:01,760
Speaker 1: these white audiences. Um. And it's just it, it's again

330
00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:05,480
Speaker 1: this unspoken thing. I I knew that there were were

331
00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:10,000
Speaker 1: was a tradition of minstrel shows in the history of America.

332
00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:14,600
Speaker 1: I didn't realize it was like the most popular and

333
00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,480
Speaker 1: the only type of popular music for a long time

334
00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:20,679
Speaker 1: that was truly American. And even from his act, like

335
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:24,440
Speaker 1: that's where we even get Jim Crow, that character from

336
00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:29,080
Speaker 1: from TD Rice. It was on which a farm of

337
00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:33,080
Speaker 1: somebody named Crow. And so even in this article um

338
00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:35,320
Speaker 1: by Wessey Moris, like it even talks about, you know,

339
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:38,119
Speaker 1: the evolution of minstrel cy, right that how that became.

340
00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:41,320
Speaker 1: It was about this like white gaze on blackness and

341
00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:44,080
Speaker 1: this fascination with it. But it was at the time

342
00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:46,440
Speaker 1: it was only comfortable to see a tongue in cheek

343
00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:49,840
Speaker 1: of a white person impersonating and that was like the act.

344
00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:52,520
Speaker 1: It's like they've kept wow, like they're doing it. And

345
00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:55,160
Speaker 1: then even then it evolved to the point where even

346
00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:58,600
Speaker 1: that you know, there were black people doing minstrel shows too,

347
00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:03,480
Speaker 1: and that the sort of mental jiu jitsu or putting

348
00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:07,760
Speaker 1: yourself in the inception mode of I'm doing an impression

349
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:14,200
Speaker 1: of someone doing an impression of me the who I am,

350
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:16,880
Speaker 1: and I have to now reflect that back to this

351
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:19,200
Speaker 1: audience in a way that they're going to eat it up.

352
00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:21,760
Speaker 1: And then he said, again he uses that trouble like

353
00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:27,840
Speaker 1: talk about being twice as good, like the the bizarre

354
00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:31,200
Speaker 1: contradictory nature of that as an art form is like

355
00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:34,480
Speaker 1: it's so cruel um. But again it talks about this

356
00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:39,880
Speaker 1: fascination with the Again, this because the call and response

357
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:43,240
Speaker 1: music that comes off of plantations um, and you know,

358
00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:46,720
Speaker 1: slave songs on ships and things like that, that's the

359
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:51,480
Speaker 1: that feeling, even like soul music that's born out of

360
00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:56,080
Speaker 1: the struggle in pursuit of freedom. That's why it has

361
00:22:56,200 --> 00:23:00,240
Speaker 1: this drawing power because it's so authentic, and even if

362
00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:04,119
Speaker 1: the song isn't about specifically freedom, it's like, but Derek's

363
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:06,920
Speaker 1: the expression is so different. It's not this sort of

364
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:10,639
Speaker 1: pre prescribed version of what music is coming into that

365
00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:14,760
Speaker 1: which is like there there must be a harpsichord, a piano,

366
00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:21,159
Speaker 1: a contrabassoon, and this kind of choral arrangement with major keytonality.

367
00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:23,560
Speaker 1: All these other things like blue scales and all these

368
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 1: other ways of expressing yourself are coming out of this

369
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:29,720
Speaker 1: imperfect way of expressing yourself because prior to that it

370
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:32,440
Speaker 1: was very manicured and by the numbers and things like that.

371
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:36,200
Speaker 1: And yes, you know, even looking at like at its peak.

372
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:39,080
Speaker 1: He points out, like in the thirteen Billboard Awards, like

373
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:41,520
Speaker 1: the people who are getting or Grammys, the people who

374
00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:46,679
Speaker 1: are getting nominated are Mack Lamore, Mighty Cyrus, uh, you know,

375
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:51,080
Speaker 1: Robin Thick, who are precisely just doing this thing of

376
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:53,440
Speaker 1: like there are things like, well, I love the music,

377
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:56,040
Speaker 1: and of course there's no there's nothing wrong with liking

378
00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:58,119
Speaker 1: a genre of music and even taking that as you know,

379
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:02,200
Speaker 1: and performing it. But it underlines this thing of like

380
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:04,919
Speaker 1: I see it, I like it. I'm gonna do it

381
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 1: my way, and I'll also get a lot of success

382
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 1: from it. Maybe I'll you know, shift the focus back

383
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 1: to honor where the traditions in which I am taking

384
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:18,040
Speaker 1: this from, or maybe I'll just blow up the charts. Um.

385
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:21,639
Speaker 1: But it has like this weird thing of America. You know,

386
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:25,520
Speaker 1: that's the thing with music. We love black culture, you know,

387
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:29,360
Speaker 1: we love black culture. And the amount of like when

388
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 1: I go on Twitter, the amount of digital black face

389
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:34,840
Speaker 1: I see with people, you know, the vernacular I've seen

390
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,240
Speaker 1: on first on text of Twitter, and like, do is

391
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:40,119
Speaker 1: that you? Is that you wanting to be like a

392
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 1: black person that you you like? Um, it's like America

393
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:48,160
Speaker 1: wants to love the culture but can't really go all

394
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:52,359
Speaker 1: the way and loving the culture in offering protection, offering freedom,

395
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:55,240
Speaker 1: understanding the wrongs that have occurred in the past, and

396
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:57,480
Speaker 1: then trying to move forward to that. It's almost like,

397
00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:00,480
Speaker 1: come on, we like everything, but let's let's not get

398
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:02,560
Speaker 1: too hung up on that, you know, like when I

399
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 1: think that's the sort of this moment that a lot

400
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 1: of black people were waiting for in this country of like,

401
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:11,480
Speaker 1: you love the culture, you take from the culture. It

402
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 1: gives you joy, it gives everybody, but you can't when

403
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 1: when are we going to When is that going to

404
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 1: be acknowledged in the sense of lifting us up or

405
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:22,959
Speaker 1: providing the kind of support that has been asked for

406
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 1: since time immemorial. But yeah, I mean the music thing

407
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:30,760
Speaker 1: is is truly like it's it's it's the it's really

408
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:34,479
Speaker 1: the American thing because they say all the American art

409
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:40,000
Speaker 1: forms they talk about where you know, like jazz, okay,

410
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 1: you're one of the most profoundly uh just in terms

411
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 1: of like how it's stereotypically imagined. Yacht rock. He opens

412
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 1: up by being like yacht rock is you know, mostly

413
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 1: associated with white dudes with mullets in the eighties, and

414
00:25:56,040 --> 00:26:00,439
Speaker 1: that is it is straight up just appropriating like you know,

415
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 1: soul music and other R and B music and other

416
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:09,800
Speaker 1: forms of black music. That is just but it's just

417
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 1: put put in doctors, which is also kind of like

418
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 1: what my fascination is with Michael McDonald, you know, because

419
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:23,919
Speaker 1: you know, and it's like what the Michael. And to

420
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:25,920
Speaker 1: me it's funny because I'm like, this dude is really

421
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 1: she's he's going for it and it's but it's it's

422
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:32,239
Speaker 1: there's still he can't quite get it there, you know,

423
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:35,960
Speaker 1: because he's still Michael McDonald, but you know what he's

424
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:40,040
Speaker 1: trying to do. Um, But it's all yeah, it's all

425
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:43,200
Speaker 1: just part and parcel of you know, acknowledged are unacknowledged

426
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:46,679
Speaker 1: taking and picking and choosing that we do and in

427
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:50,159
Speaker 1: our culture. But yeah, and then he i mean he

428
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,680
Speaker 1: talks about how Motown is like the peak of like

429
00:26:53,800 --> 00:27:00,240
Speaker 1: the achievements of you know, uh black artists, uh you know,

430
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 1: blending the you know, sensibilities that they knew that white

431
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 1: audiences would find appealing while also just like taking the

432
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 1: music to a higher level than had ever been achieved,

433
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 1: but just in terms of the thematic kind of peak

434
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 1: for for the article, he talks about Old Town Road being, um,

435
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 1: you know, the banjo is this instrument that is uh,

436
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 1: you know, starts with slaves and is then appropriated by

437
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 1: minstrel shows and in the South by white people, and

438
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:43,159
Speaker 1: then you know, just it's this very kind of meta

439
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:48,879
Speaker 1: um reversing of a lot of the music history while

440
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 1: like drawing a reference to it. And it's just so

441
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:54,440
Speaker 1: interesting that I mean, he kind of points out it's

442
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 1: kind of a silly song, but it like tapped into

443
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:03,719
Speaker 1: something so powerful and so like on point for American

444
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 1: music and like history of American music that it became

445
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:11,359
Speaker 1: the biggest number one hit of all time right exactly.

446
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 1: And then because because even as you talk about like

447
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 1: the sort of aesthetic inception that's going on right the

448
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:21,119
Speaker 1: banjo music, minstrel shows things like that, But then he's

449
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:25,280
Speaker 1: sampling Trent resin Er, a white guy who that's this

450
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:29,119
Speaker 1: that banjo sample comes from Trent Resoner, and then turns

451
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:33,920
Speaker 1: it into a hit that made the country music gatekeepers

452
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 1: lose their damn minds because they're like suddenly now trying

453
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,360
Speaker 1: to protect the sanctity. I think it was almost like

454
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 1: they have every other white art form country and now

455
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 1: what the heck, But you know what, that's that's what

456
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 1: this is. That's what it's. It's it's so it's so

457
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 1: weird of like America tries so hard to separate itself

458
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 1: from each other without realizing, like you know, in the

459
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 1: more toko Ville type vision, you know it, it's truly

460
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 1: this melting pot. Yeah, it's not like a segre I mean,

461
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 1: I know, people, it is segregated, but like the culture

462
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 1: of this is truly one of like all these other things.

463
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 1: And what level we can acknowledge that and embrace that

464
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 1: as a completely separate conversation. But yeah, for that, for

465
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 1: then that little Nazac song to become, you know, the

466
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:23,959
Speaker 1: biggest song ever. I think it speaks to like this

467
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 1: this energy that exists, positive or negative, but it's just

468
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 1: very potent. Another name that I think a lot of

469
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:36,719
Speaker 1: people don't know is Claudette Colvin, who nine months before

470
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 1: Rosa Parks was arrested Montgomery. She was a fourteen year

471
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 1: old who like kind of more organically without really planning

472
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 1: to Her and her friends were sitting in the you know,

473
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 1: back colored section of the bus and the bus was full.

474
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 1: A white person came back, sat there and said, you

475
00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:00,240
Speaker 1: guys have to move back so that you're not ing

476
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 1: as close to the front as I am. And she

477
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 1: just was fed up, didn't get up, did the same

478
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 1: thing that Rosa Parks is famous for, and got arrested.

479
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 1: And then the civil rights movement sort of grew out

480
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 1: of that. She was then befriended by Rosa Parks, who

481
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 1: was an official head of the civil rights movement and

482
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 1: organizations who were you know, part of the civil rights

483
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 1: movement at that part at that point, and they you know,

484
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 1: made the calculation that Rosa Parks will probably be more

485
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 1: palatable to a white audience. And it's just I feel

486
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 1: like Claudet Colvin gets written out of history because she

487
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:47,880
Speaker 1: becomes a footnote because white people want to give themselves

488
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 1: credit for uh, the civil rights movement and like being

489
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 1: like coming around to be the press give of the

490
00:30:56,560 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 1: dominant culture, and the idea that they had to be

491
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 1: tailored to that they're kind of in built white supremacy

492
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 1: had to be like designed around by the civil rights movement.

493
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 1: I think is not is not something that the mainstream

494
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 1: culture wants to acknowledge about it so right, or that

495
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:23,520
Speaker 1: even that the people in the civil rights movement. We're

496
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 1: even having to do that thinking too, of going, well,

497
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 1: we know how white people were going to respond to

498
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 1: this photo of Claudet Colvin versus Rosa Parks, who's from

499
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 1: a respectable family, has a little more social cash and

500
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 1: is lighter that this will play better, um again in

501
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 1: the pursuit of liberation. And yeah, it's just I think

502
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 1: it's her story too, is interesting because even like her mom,

503
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 1: they all kind of knew that They're like, this ain't

504
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 1: gonna be you, and he like Rosa Parks is gonna

505
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:58,840
Speaker 1: take this one, and and we know, like that's what

506
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 1: should happen. But I or I mean, that's how they

507
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:04,480
Speaker 1: were sort of strategizing in terms of the movement. But yeah,

508
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 1: I think it's also, Yeah, it has to be said

509
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 1: that this was it's activism takes all kinds of shapes

510
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 1: and forms, and the road to these like moments, there's

511
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 1: so much thinking, and it's still having to navigate sort

512
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 1: of these systems of oppression even to like get the

513
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 1: message out that you deserve dignity. Yeah, I mean, look

514
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 1: how the white media or just the mainstream media treated

515
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 1: Trayvon Martin after he's murdered Suddenly there's pictures of him,

516
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 1: you know that he posted the social media, like with

517
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 1: the headlines of like he's no angel, Like that's the

518
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:48,960
Speaker 1: the idea that they you know, they they knew, they

519
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 1: were absolutely right that Claudette Colvin would have been uh,

520
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:57,720
Speaker 1: you know, just discriminated against if if she had been.

521
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 1: Can you imagine us in a kid's history book, You're like, well,

522
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 1: hold on Rose, we know about Rosa Parks. But because

523
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 1: of colorism in this country and internalized white supremacy that

524
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 1: even the black activists knew themselves they were having to

525
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 1: overcome to optically present a case safe enough for the

526
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 1: consideration of Like that's how deep it has to get.

527
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 1: But I think that's what's necessary too, because you can't

528
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 1: just reduce these things to like it was one person

529
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 1: who sat down on the bus and that kicked off, Like, no,

530
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 1: this is it's a it's an continued effort um and

531
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of thought has to go

532
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 1: into these things, and unfortunately, these kinds of calculations have

533
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 1: to be made. Yeah, and then you know, one of

534
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 1: the more popular ways that people are you know, seeing

535
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 1: um activism these days is through you know, Colin Kaepernick,

536
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:55,959
Speaker 1: NBA players striking, And I think there are a couple

537
00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 1: sports stories where black history tree gets completely written out

538
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 1: or written around. Um. Horse racing was one that I

539
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 1: just wasn't even aware of. And I've been to the

540
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:14,520
Speaker 1: Kentucky Derby, but African American riders were the basically the

541
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 1: first black superstars in American sports. They won fifteen of

542
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 1: the first twenty eight runnings of the Kentucky Derby. Uh

543
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 1: and then one and then that made them famous and

544
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 1: so uh the and that was also around the same

545
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 1: time that we were talking about with the Red Summer

546
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 1: and the Tulsa uh Black Wall Street massacre. Uh. They

547
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:41,920
Speaker 1: started getting pushed out, like literally boxed out in in

548
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:45,279
Speaker 1: the sense that white riders would like push them into

549
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:50,320
Speaker 1: the rails, would uh you know, whip them while trying

550
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:53,400
Speaker 1: to like literally whip them with the whips they were

551
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 1: supposed to be using to like get their horses to

552
00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 1: go faster. Um. It's like fun because like when we

553
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:03,320
Speaker 1: talk a lot about these about these stories, it's also

554
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:08,920
Speaker 1: a story of how we American or white America or

555
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:13,880
Speaker 1: the dominant American culture struggles to allow the success at

556
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:16,759
Speaker 1: a certain level. Like it gets to a point and

557
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 1: then suddenly a circuit breaker has to be hit to

558
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 1: kind of like level the playing field really quick. Yeah,

559
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:25,360
Speaker 1: we saw that again, even talking about this with the

560
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:27,080
Speaker 1: concept of white lash or what if you wanna call

561
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 1: moral licensing whatever, and having Donald Trump elected after Barack Obama,

562
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:35,919
Speaker 1: it got to a point and let's kind of let's

563
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:38,319
Speaker 1: let's bring it down a couple of notches again. And

564
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 1: I think that's the thing that we also need to

565
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,319
Speaker 1: bring more awareness to as a country as well, is

566
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 1: that there are these in built biases that a lot

567
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 1: of people have of like even seeing something like that

568
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 1: and not thinking twice about how discriminatory or awful that is.

569
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:56,840
Speaker 1: It almost like, oh right, that's just part of the

570
00:35:56,920 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 1: subconscious of this culture. Um. But by talking about these stories,

571
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 1: we you know, hope to bring that kind of awareness

572
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:06,480
Speaker 1: to people because you know, in talking about Kaepernick, we

573
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:08,960
Speaker 1: we talked about how you and I both really didn't

574
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:11,280
Speaker 1: know about Craig Hodges until we watched the Last Dance

575
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 1: and we knew who Craig Hodges was, you know what

576
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:16,759
Speaker 1: I mean, Like when Craig Elo got that took that

577
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,400
Speaker 1: shot in his face, or Mark Price and the Calves,

578
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:24,240
Speaker 1: you know, Craig was right there. He was right there, uh,

579
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:26,480
Speaker 1: in that one in that in the series against the

580
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:30,279
Speaker 1: Detroit Pistons when Michael Jordan's got rocked and he's like,

581
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 1: I gotta start lifting weights if I'm gonna play against

582
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:35,359
Speaker 1: Bill Amber and these maniacs. Um Craig Hodges scored more

583
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:37,439
Speaker 1: points than Michael Jordan in that game where they went out,

584
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:43,879
Speaker 1: and we forget that he suddenly vanished because in after

585
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:47,280
Speaker 1: the Rodney King beating, it was the Bulls versus the Lakers,

586
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:50,759
Speaker 1: and the game one of the championship, he was imploring

587
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:54,400
Speaker 1: Michael Jordan's and Magic Johnson, two of the most visible

588
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 1: black athletes at that time, to boycott the game to

589
00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:00,200
Speaker 1: bring awareness to the just rampant racism that exist and

590
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:03,560
Speaker 1: not just America, but policing specifically through the context of

591
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 1: this more Brodney King beating and how that just all

592
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:11,880
Speaker 1: it took was that for him to stick up and say,

593
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 1: I think we should do this because this is a

594
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 1: real issue that when the powers that be within the

595
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:18,839
Speaker 1: league caught wind of it, it's like, okay, so now

596
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 1: you're gonna start getting traded. Now you might not come

597
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 1: back from you know, you know, you were on the

598
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:26,399
Speaker 1: injury reserve. Maybe your playing minutes are going to go down,

599
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:29,239
Speaker 1: even though you're an All Star and you're shooting the

600
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:32,920
Speaker 1: lights out on paper, um. And it's it's hard to

601
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 1: watch those moments because Craig Hodges he grew up in

602
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:38,840
Speaker 1: a house of activists, and he was raised with the

603
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 1: knowledge and awareness of American history and systemic oppression and racism.

604
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 1: So when he's seeing it, he couldn't help but to

605
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 1: speak out. Unfortunately, this man was so ahead of his

606
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:54,719
Speaker 1: time in just the mere idea of mentioning some kind

607
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:57,360
Speaker 1: of act of solidarity to tell people that we're not

608
00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:02,080
Speaker 1: accepting this as black men was just way too much.

609
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:05,280
Speaker 1: And it's hard to blame Magic or Michael too, because

610
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 1: that's a weird position to already be in as a

611
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:09,759
Speaker 1: black man, is to have this power, but you are

612
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:12,400
Speaker 1: also beholden to the white people that are paying you.

613
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 1: So it's this hand that feeds relationship that occurs. But

614
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:19,799
Speaker 1: with Craig Hodges, he was very vocal. He he wore

615
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:23,400
Speaker 1: a dashiki to the White House um and wrote an

616
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:25,839
Speaker 1: eight page letter talking about all because he had been

617
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 1: raised to write letters to your politicians. If you have

618
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:29,920
Speaker 1: something to say to your leaders, and he wrote an

619
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:32,920
Speaker 1: eight page letter and all he got laughed at, and

620
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 1: that began the end of his career because he was

621
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 1: speaking up yeah and him, yeah, who was one of

622
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 1: the most lights out shooters at a time when the

623
00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:48,680
Speaker 1: NBA didn't value that as much as they should have.

624
00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:52,279
Speaker 1: But he dropped fifty one on John Stockton, one of

625
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 1: the great UH defensive guards in the history of the NBA,

626
00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:59,800
Speaker 1: just a lights out shooter, college teammate of Shaquille O'Neill

627
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 1: and yeah at l s U UH and he started,

628
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:11,880
Speaker 1: you know, just conscientiously objecting by sitting during the national anthem,

629
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:16,279
Speaker 1: like legitimately, that's what Colin Kaepernick did first before you know,

630
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:19,560
Speaker 1: somebody was consulting with was like, kneeling would actually be

631
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:23,040
Speaker 1: just like a better look, but sitting to just represent

632
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 1: that like there are I think he specifically said, like

633
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:30,120
Speaker 1: there are uh countries around the world where that is

634
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:34,319
Speaker 1: a symbol of oppression and violence and uh, you know,

635
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:37,759
Speaker 1: so he was sitting. People weren't really paying attention to

636
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:42,800
Speaker 1: that for a few games, and then once the league noticed.

637
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:47,240
Speaker 1: At first, you know, Rod Thorne, who was like the

638
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:50,640
Speaker 1: disciplinary and for the n b A, he talked to him,

639
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 1: and rod Thorn was like, I mean, there's no like

640
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:55,440
Speaker 1: rule that says you can't do it. So and then

641
00:39:55,520 --> 00:40:01,279
Speaker 1: David Stern noticed and suddenly he was suspended in finitely right.

642
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 1: And then it became a compromise thing of like, well,

643
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:06,799
Speaker 1: don't sit, do something else. He's like, what if I

644
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 1: pray or whatever, and like it was like this whole

645
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:13,400
Speaker 1: back and forth and again he was just saying that

646
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:18,640
Speaker 1: he was just observing the reality of America and commenting

647
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 1: on it out loud. But yeah, for him, it's funny

648
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 1: too because he had a bit of a different path

649
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:26,600
Speaker 1: than Craig Hodge. Craig Hodges did because he only sort

650
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 1: of got into thinking critically about America when he was

651
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:32,839
Speaker 1: handed a big autobiography of Malcolm X from his coach

652
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:35,440
Speaker 1: at l s U. And that's when he actually converted

653
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 1: to Islam, and he realized He's like, oh my god,

654
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:42,320
Speaker 1: I'm actually seeing all of these forms of systemic oppression

655
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:44,280
Speaker 1: playing out in real time in front of my eyes

656
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:46,759
Speaker 1: left and right in in the nineties or at the

657
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:48,839
Speaker 1: time he was looking at it. So he had no

658
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:51,200
Speaker 1: choice but to speak up because he was aware of

659
00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 1: it all. And that's what's really interesting too, is like

660
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:57,319
Speaker 1: when you see the NBA, uh, you know, trying to

661
00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:00,080
Speaker 1: get behind the players over the summer um and r

662
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:02,719
Speaker 1: like the bubble postseason and things like that and a

663
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:05,160
Speaker 1: lot of the Black Lives Matter messaging that was going on.

664
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:08,440
Speaker 1: There's still a lot that the league can do too.

665
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:11,440
Speaker 1: I would say, make people like Craig Hodges and mak

666
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:16,520
Speaker 1: mud Adoro whole, because that countless dollars that were missed

667
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:22,319
Speaker 1: from contracts, They were frozen out, they were both. Yeah,

668
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 1: especially if there's like literally no argument that dude was

669
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:31,240
Speaker 1: lights out and they uh, you know, just basically screwed

670
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:33,879
Speaker 1: with them, threw him off his rhythm, would hold him

671
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 1: out of games, would give them less playing time. There's

672
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:40,640
Speaker 1: pressure on this coach to play him less. And you know,

673
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:45,600
Speaker 1: at the very least they should be given a leadership

674
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 1: position with with the within the league to help with

675
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:52,759
Speaker 1: these issues. Like just listening to both of them be

676
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:57,280
Speaker 1: interviewed around the Black Lives Matter movement of last summer

677
00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 1: and George Floyd's murder, they are just so compelling to

678
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:06,120
Speaker 1: listen to uh and speak so clearly and so lucidly

679
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:09,399
Speaker 1: about this because they've been thinking it and doing it

680
00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 1: for decades now, like they need to be uh, you know,

681
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:18,480
Speaker 1: part part of this conversation because for too long it

682
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:24,160
Speaker 1: feels like it's been a statement crafted by Michael Jordan's

683
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 1: management to you know, and I don't know like that.

684
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:30,960
Speaker 1: A hundred million dollars is a great start, which is

685
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 1: what Michael Jordan's wrote a check for, but it's still

686
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:38,240
Speaker 1: I don't know like it people who are actually about

687
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:42,040
Speaker 1: doing the work and making the uncomfortable, you know, having

688
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:45,879
Speaker 1: the uncomfortable conversations right because they you know, because even

689
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:48,480
Speaker 1: further back, you know, Craig Hodges and mak Mudobdor with

690
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 1: like they're inspired by Tommy Smith and John Carlos in

691
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:54,480
Speaker 1: the six Olympics obviously like of seeing like right, these

692
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:57,680
Speaker 1: are people who are representing a country that they have

693
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:02,160
Speaker 1: a very tumultuous relations and ship with. But it's about

694
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:05,080
Speaker 1: a vision that it can be better. That's why it's

695
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:09,120
Speaker 1: not just I renounce everything. It's like, yeah, I'm here,

696
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:12,239
Speaker 1: but in this moment where you're reflecting on the nation part,

697
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:15,080
Speaker 1: I want it to be known that we can be

698
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:18,520
Speaker 1: doing better. In fact, we must be doing better because

699
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:21,319
Speaker 1: we are not fulfilling the full potential of what the

700
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:26,040
Speaker 1: country can be um And for these two athletes merely

701
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:32,680
Speaker 1: observing the reality at that time was just considered so provocative. UM.

702
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:34,640
Speaker 1: And I think that's where we have to always keep

703
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:38,120
Speaker 1: our eyes on how we treat people who are speaking

704
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:40,000
Speaker 1: out against things and how we're looking at them, and

705
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:42,920
Speaker 1: also how the media or just any powers that be

706
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:45,319
Speaker 1: are trying to frame what is being said as being like,

707
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:48,400
Speaker 1: what is it It's a hot take to ask for equality,

708
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:52,239
Speaker 1: that's incendiary, that's not. And I think that's where we

709
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:54,680
Speaker 1: have to open our minds a bit to understand that, like,

710
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:58,080
Speaker 1: we're operating at like two of our capacity in this

711
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:00,719
Speaker 1: country and we can be doing a lot more. And

712
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 1: so yeah, I think with that is being able to

713
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:06,080
Speaker 1: to look back at what our history is, good and bad,

714
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:10,799
Speaker 1: and understanding that there's even even the most inspiring people,

715
00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:14,040
Speaker 1: especially in like Black History Month, there's it's all about two.

716
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 1: It's not just not just observing and honoring these contributions,

717
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:20,520
Speaker 1: but also honoring it in the sense that in your

718
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:24,279
Speaker 1: lived life after this more than just February, you can

719
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:26,560
Speaker 1: understand that a lot of these things that have given

720
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:29,400
Speaker 1: us moments of joy and things to to gather around

721
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 1: these are all have been out of the pursuit of

722
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:35,319
Speaker 1: liberation that is yet to be fully realized. And I

723
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:37,560
Speaker 1: think that's where we all, we all owe it to

724
00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:41,279
Speaker 1: each other to begin to move in that direction. And

725
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:43,680
Speaker 1: that's why we gotta keep you know, we gotta keep

726
00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:46,200
Speaker 1: talking about where we're coming from, because then we don't

727
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:50,000
Speaker 1: know where we're gonna go. Yeah, uh and I mean there,

728
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 1: so you know, we we could give examples all day,

729
00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:56,920
Speaker 1: but I think that's a really good way to leave it.

730
00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:00,360
Speaker 1: Um that is going to do it for this actual

731
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:05,360
Speaker 1: episode of Daily Zeitgeist. We will be back at the

732
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:10,279
Speaker 1: regular time with episodes and episodes of trending uh, and

733
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:15,920
Speaker 1: we will talk to you all then. I m