1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:02,640 Speaker 1: What do you love most in the world? Your children? 2 00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:06,800 Speaker 1: What will you do to protect them anything. I sat 3 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:10,719 Speaker 1: down with these smartest people I know in the world 4 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: on matters of child safety, finding missing children, fighting back 5 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:19,240 Speaker 1: against predators, and what I learned is so important, powerful 6 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:23,440 Speaker 1: and information so critical. I want you to have it. 7 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:26,200 Speaker 1: I want them to have it. Go to crimestops here 8 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:30,480 Speaker 1: dot com for a five part series with action information 9 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 1: that you can use to change your life and protect 10 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:37,639 Speaker 1: your child. Find out how to protect your child when 11 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 1: you're out at the mall or the store, or the grocery, 12 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 1: in the parking lot at home. Find out about protection 13 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:50,199 Speaker 1: regarding babysitters, in daycare, even online. Join Justice Nation Go 14 00:00:50,280 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 1: to crimestops here dot com Crime Stories with Nancy Great. 15 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 1: We arrested Patrick Frazy on charges of first degree murder 16 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:09,840 Speaker 1: of Kelsey Barrett, and he is currently being held in 17 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 1: the Teller County Jail. As a reminder, Patrick Frazy has 18 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:19,200 Speaker 1: presumed innocent until proven guilty. Patrick Prazy was taken into 19 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 1: custody this morning in flores And, Colorado just after seven 20 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 1: o'clock this morning Mountain standard time by members of the 21 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:30,039 Speaker 1: multi jurisdictional task force, including the Teller County Sheriff's Office 22 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:33,880 Speaker 1: and the FBI. Patrick was taken to the Teller County 23 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 1: Jail where he'll be held. Kelsey's daughter, Kayley, is in 24 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 1: protective custody and we'll be reunited with Kelsey's family. I 25 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:46,560 Speaker 1: cannot stress enough that this is a difficult time for 26 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 1: Kelsey's family. They are not providing interviews period. Please respect 27 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 1: the family's request. This has been a methodical and time 28 00:01:55,960 --> 00:02:00,080 Speaker 1: consuming multi state operation with investigators working nearly around the 29 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 1: clock to find Kelsey. While we have not found Kelsey 30 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: at this time, information has been developed that is helping 31 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:09,960 Speaker 1: to narrow down our search. As you can tell from 32 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 1: the arrest Sadly, we do not believe Kelsey is still alive. 33 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:17,640 Speaker 1: The search for missing Colorado mom Kelsey Barrett has come 34 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 1: to an end, and not the way we wanted In 35 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 1: the last hours. Per fiance, Patrick Frazie has appeared in 36 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 1: court on charges not only murder one but solicitation of murder, 37 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 1: which in the vernacular in that local jurisdiction means that 38 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 1: authorities believe he asked for help, asked for help to 39 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 1: kill the mother of his one year old taught Kelly 40 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:47,920 Speaker 1: I Meancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for 41 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:51,960 Speaker 1: being with us. Patrick Frazie in chord. He has had 42 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 1: a reading of charges against him. He is currently being 43 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 1: held on no bond. How did we get here? Straight 44 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:02,800 Speaker 1: out to Syndicated Talks to host Dave Matt Let's just 45 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:05,919 Speaker 1: take it from the moment of his arrest, what has 46 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:08,840 Speaker 1: happened since then, and then we'll backtrack. Well, since it's 47 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:12,240 Speaker 1: the arrest, we know that the charge of murder and 48 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 1: the solicitation that there was somebody with him at his 49 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 1: house when the police arrested him, and it was female. 50 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:23,799 Speaker 1: She was not detained and has not been charged. So 51 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 1: the only assumption, and we know what happens there, is 52 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:32,240 Speaker 1: that whoever he solicited to kill his fiancee is actually 53 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 1: the person who rolled over on and that god is 54 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 1: the information that drove the police back into her house 55 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 1: and his house to look for evidence. Let's hand elize 56 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 1: again exactly what police say in their press or what 57 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 1: can we learn. Listen, your question of is if there 58 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 1: is an additional if there are additional arrests related to 59 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:52,520 Speaker 1: a solicitation charge, that's an absolute possibility, but I'm not 60 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 1: going to guess on that at this point. Straight out 61 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 1: to Ashley Wilcott joining US judge lawyer. You can find 62 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 1: her Ashley Wilcot dot com on Facebook. Ashley, thanks for 63 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 1: being with us. I noticed when the police chief, Miles 64 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 1: de Young, was asked, he said there absolutely and he 65 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 1: said it was such let me just say verve and 66 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: he also said there may be other arrests plural. What 67 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:19,679 Speaker 1: does that tell you, Ashley, because in that jurisdiction, I 68 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:23,599 Speaker 1: looked up exactly what they meant by solicitation to break 69 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 1: it down out of Latin, which lawyers love to talk 70 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:30,920 Speaker 1: in Latin, it means to ask someone for help, help 71 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 1: in what covering up helping? They said, specifically solicitation for murder, 72 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:39,719 Speaker 1: not accessory after the fact, such as hiding the body 73 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:42,599 Speaker 1: or cleaning up the home. Which bring me back to 74 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 1: that in a moment, Dave Matt, because I'm convinced the 75 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 1: incident occurred at her town home. But what do you 76 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:49,359 Speaker 1: make of it? Well, that's what I think too. I 77 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:51,039 Speaker 1: think it occurred at the town home. What it means 78 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:54,160 Speaker 1: if someone else was involved, someone else was there, I 79 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 1: think complicit in the murder, Whether they had her distracted 80 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:00,840 Speaker 1: her so that he could do it, whether they said, 81 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 1: oh I need you to come over because someone else 82 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 1: is involved. My guess, my bet is it's another woman 83 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:10,040 Speaker 1: pick surprise, another woman or the woman who loves him 84 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:12,840 Speaker 1: the most in the world, his mother, now you know. 85 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:16,119 Speaker 1: And of course, guys, we're just talking about potential women 86 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:20,279 Speaker 1: in his life. No girlfriend, no mother, no grandma, no auntie. 87 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 1: Nobody has been named a suspect or a person of interest, 88 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 1: all right, but who could you convince to help you? 89 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 1: There have been reports it is a woman. A woman 90 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:32,360 Speaker 1: was with him at the time of his arrest. Does 91 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:34,600 Speaker 1: that make it a woman? Know? As a matter of fact, 92 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:37,200 Speaker 1: isn't it true? To Alan Duke, my partner in crime 93 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:41,560 Speaker 1: joining me out in LA cops were watching him with binoculars, 94 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 1: watching the fiance, Patrick Phrasy through binoculars when he went 95 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 1: to a dump. Who was with him? Not a woman 96 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 1: but two men in a white pickup with a trailer 97 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:53,360 Speaker 1: attached onto the back. So we are speculating that it's 98 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 1: a woman because we've heard reports it's a woman, but 99 00:05:56,279 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 1: it could still be a man. I've actually talked to 100 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 1: sources close to the investor instigation and they would not 101 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:04,800 Speaker 1: tell me if it's a man or a woman. They, 102 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 1: in fact sometimes would refer to the she, and sometimes 103 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 1: would not refer to the she as if the other 104 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 1: possible person who might be arrested as to their gender. 105 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:18,920 Speaker 1: To Karen's Tark joining us from Manhattan this today, Karen, 106 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:21,279 Speaker 1: here's my thought on that. You know, I thought I 107 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 1: knew it all I tried. You know, I don't know 108 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 1: how many well over a hundred cases investigated, thousands of cases, 109 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:32,279 Speaker 1: you know, thousands of appearances in court. I didn't know 110 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:34,840 Speaker 1: a thing until I had the twins. And I think 111 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 1: you can agree with me on that because you've known 112 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 1: me preimposed twin. What I'm saying is, there is no 113 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:45,360 Speaker 1: love like a mother's love. I don't care what man 114 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 1: you meet, who you think you're so in love with it, 115 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:52,800 Speaker 1: there's nothing like a mother's love. That is why the 116 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 1: mother has been bandied about as a co conspirator. That's 117 00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:01,160 Speaker 1: the only reason. That's it. He hasn't done anything, she 118 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 1: hasn't said anything. You haven't seen police digging up her 119 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 1: yard or you know, ransacking her home, nothing like that. 120 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 1: It's just simply based on a bond of what we 121 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: believe would be loved. That's it. But I want you 122 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 1: to weigh in on that. It's hard. It's hard to believe. 123 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 1: I understand what you're saying, Nancy, and I know that 124 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:22,680 Speaker 1: the twins are your life, and I'm sure that this 125 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 1: mother feels the same way about her son. But it's 126 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 1: still hard to believe that she would be complicit, at 127 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 1: least for me and in a murder charge, that she 128 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 1: would help a son maybe cover up that I could, 129 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 1: I could understand, but in terms of actually helping him 130 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 1: to kill her, I would be really surprised. Okay, you 131 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 1: know what, Karen start, I've got to agree with you. 132 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 1: I could see I cover up once if my son, 133 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 1: God please help him not do anything wrong, had done 134 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 1: something wrong, and that it was a fac a feat accomplished, 135 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 1: it was over. I couldn't fix it. I could change it. Yeah, 136 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 1: I could see a cover up, absolutely being part of 137 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 1: a cover up to keep him out of jail. Absolutely 138 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 1: could see me doing that out of blind stupid love. 139 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 1: But that's the way love is, right, it's stupid. So 140 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 1: long story short. I don't see her raising a hand 141 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 1: to Kelsey Barrett. I would see her trying to talk 142 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 1: him out of it. Now here's a kicker out to you. 143 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 1: Ashley Wilcot, Judge and lawyer. Think back to Monica Lewinsky. Okay, everybody, 144 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 1: hold hold your thought because this is what I'm getting 145 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 1: at the world learned what lawyers had to learn in 146 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 1: law school. There is no privilege, no mother child privilege 147 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 1: in court like attorney client or a priest parishioner. You 148 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 1: tell your mom or dad something, they can be forced 149 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 1: to testify, they can be called to the stand, and 150 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:49,920 Speaker 1: there's no privilege to protect your communications. So if Patrick 151 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 1: Frasy did tell his mother anything about this at all, 152 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 1: even after the fact, that can come into evidence. Ashley Wilcot, Absolutely, 153 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 1: it not only can come into evidence. I'm pointe certain 154 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 1: that it would come into evidence. And keep in mind 155 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 1: I can't help but remind all that what I said 156 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:08,320 Speaker 1: at the beginning of this was nobody hires a lawyer 157 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 1: unless there's an issue, And he hired a lawyer from 158 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 1: the get go and didn't want to talk and didn't 159 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 1: do anything until you have a lawyer. The second part 160 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 1: is solicitation could mean murder for hire. You know what, 161 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:20,840 Speaker 1: You're absolutely right about that we are basing all of 162 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 1: this legal line of reasoning and investigative reasoning based on 163 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:29,559 Speaker 1: what the police chief Miles Deyong said at a press 164 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 1: or a press conference. We have asked he said, there 165 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:36,720 Speaker 1: absolutely may be more arrests now if there is another 166 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 1: party involved, and we know that there is according to 167 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 1: police anyway, because in the formal charges as they exist now, 168 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 1: first you know, police charge you for an arrest. Then 169 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:51,080 Speaker 1: it goes to a grand jury or a preliminary hearing. 170 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:57,680 Speaker 1: Sometimes prosecutors will draw up charges on their own and 171 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:03,560 Speaker 1: that becomes the the formal charges. It can change from 172 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:07,320 Speaker 1: what police have charged the person with. They may drop 173 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 1: the solicitation. They may add, you know, some type of 174 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:14,440 Speaker 1: obstruction trying to throw cops off. What I'm saying is 175 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 1: those charges can be reduced, they can be maximized, they 176 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:22,840 Speaker 1: can be added onto at the formal charge. What's a 177 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 1: grand jury or a preliminary hearing takes place. We're waiting 178 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:31,440 Speaker 1: to hear about that. What's going to happen. But right 179 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 1: now we know another person is involved, according to police, 180 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 1: because the fiance of Kelsey Barrett, the missing Colorado mom 181 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: whose body has yet to be found. The fiance is 182 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 1: charged on only with murder one but solicitation he asked 183 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:51,440 Speaker 1: for help. According to police, I still know somebody knows 184 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:54,839 Speaker 1: where she's at. Somebody has seen her. There's more information 185 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:57,840 Speaker 1: out there. Somebody just needs to realize, to recognize, than 186 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 1: to say something as she ever disappeared before. No, no, 187 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 1: I can't think of anywhere she's ever gone that she 188 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:10,560 Speaker 1: hasn't told me that. It's just not in her character 189 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 1: to just take off and be gone. As we were 190 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:16,839 Speaker 1: saying earlier, there is no love like a mother's love. 191 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:21,200 Speaker 1: You were just hearing the mother of Keltsey Barrett, the 192 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:26,319 Speaker 1: missing Colorado mom, a little girl, Kelly, just one year old, 193 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 1: who will now be entering the new year, going through 194 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:38,839 Speaker 1: the holidays without mommy and without daddy. Joining me is 195 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 1: an all star panel. I mean, it would cost thousands 196 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:47,240 Speaker 1: and thousands of dollars for an individual to hire these 197 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:50,480 Speaker 1: people to help them. Listen. Who's talking to us today? 198 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:53,840 Speaker 1: We're now a psychologist Karen Starts joining us out of Manhattan. 199 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 1: Syndicated talk show host Dave Mack, forensics expert, Professor Forensics 200 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 1: at Jackson State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet 201 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 1: on Amazon. Joseph Scott Morgan with me Crime online dot 202 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 1: Com investigative reporter who's been breaking stories on this and 203 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:14,080 Speaker 1: every other crime News at crime online dot com. Ellen 204 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:18,199 Speaker 1: Kilauren alias Eka, and of course my partnering Crime in 205 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:23,560 Speaker 1: La Alan Duke here the studio, Jackie Howard. I'm out 206 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 1: to ek Ellen Kilauren. I want to talk about two 207 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:31,160 Speaker 1: things right now, and they are as I always tell 208 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 1: juris one, two, three, and four. Let's start with one, okay, 209 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 1: and then you go number one ABCDE okay, So let's 210 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 1: just break it down like that. Sorry, Ek, law school 211 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:47,440 Speaker 1: does that too. I want to talk about two things. 212 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 1: One the fact that Kelsey Bear's family, her mother at least, 213 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 1: continued to say that Kelsey and Patrick Phrasie, now charging 214 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 1: her murder, had a relationship very very loving. In the 215 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:07,040 Speaker 1: last hours, we've heard about cracks in that veneer that 216 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 1: there may actually even be a love interest involved. That 217 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:15,960 Speaker 1: means a love triangle. I don't like it. And number two, okay, 218 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 1: there's the fact the family was standing by the fiancee. 219 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 1: And number two forensically, I have a lot of reason 220 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 1: to believe that the murder occurred at her home, Kelsey 221 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:32,320 Speaker 1: bears home. So which one you want to start with, ek, 222 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 1: the mom or the home? How about the home? Because 223 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:38,080 Speaker 1: the police addressed that specifically in the press conference on Friday, 224 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:41,480 Speaker 1: let's do okay, first of all, to Dave Matt, Let's 225 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 1: talk about it, Dave mac. We're going to follow up 226 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:50,080 Speaker 1: with ek. But at first, cops were all about Patrick 227 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 1: Phrase's ranch, all right, thirty five acres, sprawling ranch. And 228 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:59,160 Speaker 1: as I said the other night on Nightline on ABC, 229 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 1: they were not saying he was a poy, person of 230 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 1: interest or suspect. But when you look out, you're a 231 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:08,200 Speaker 1: kitchen window and you see the FBI with a baco, 232 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 1: they got a bob Gat out there, you're in trouble, friend, 233 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 1: you are in a truck bull. So it looked at 234 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 1: first like they were focusing on his ranch, came out 235 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 1: with cadaver dogs, came up with nothing, at least no Kelsie. 236 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:27,040 Speaker 1: Maybe they found something else. But then a neighbor emerged, 237 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 1: Dave Matt, a neighbor of Kelsey Barris, who said, at 238 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 1: the time we believe she had just gotten back from 239 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 1: Safe Way. You know, she was on surbillance video with 240 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 1: her daughter, Kelly, her two vehicles. She's a flight instructor. 241 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 1: She's got two vehicles parked in her town home. They 242 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 1: were parked as normal, like facing the home. Nose in 243 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 1: and then parked t boned perpendicular to them, like hemming 244 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 1: them in was a second red pickup. She had a 245 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 1: red pickup. He had a red pickup. He was there. 246 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:02,440 Speaker 1: Why it was he parked like that? But I heard that. 247 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:06,560 Speaker 1: I'm like, hmm, that's not right. Why is uh? And 248 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:09,920 Speaker 1: so we see the cops. Then suddenly after the neighbor 249 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 1: came forward zoning in on her town home day Mac, 250 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:16,520 Speaker 1: that's where they went in. You know, it's amazing. You 251 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 1: mentioned them showing up it with bacchos and everything else 252 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 1: at his ranch and they did cart off about seven 253 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 1: bags where the stuff and everything else. But it was 254 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 1: only when they got back to her place, that that 255 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 1: town home that they were able to find apparently, and 256 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 1: you know, God, we're having a guest because you know, 257 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 1: we've done this a long time. But they haven't said 258 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 1: exactly what they got, but they got enough information, which 259 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 1: you've got to assume is blood related, to know that 260 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 1: Kelsey is no longer with us, because that's what they've said. Sadly, 261 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:47,040 Speaker 1: we do not believe Kelsey is still alive, and the 262 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 1: only way they can know that is from their discussion 263 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 1: with the fiance his attorney or the blood evidence that 264 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:58,040 Speaker 1: exists inside her town hall, her town home, well, I 265 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 1: agree with him. To Ellen color En akak Ellen joining 266 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 1: US Crime online dot Com investigative Reporterka, we learned a 267 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:12,080 Speaker 1: lot in that press or. We do not have a body. 268 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 1: People still holding out hope she could be alive. And 269 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 1: I don't like being the one to say this, but 270 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:21,960 Speaker 1: she is no longer with us in this world. And 271 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 1: it's based on something and they found in that town home, 272 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 1: and this is interesting, very interesting, Ellen. When they first 273 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 1: went into the town home, everything appeared to be normal. 274 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 1: I'm talking about her brother, Kelsey's brother. He came out 275 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:39,120 Speaker 1: with a head of steam. He said, everything's fine, nothing's moved. 276 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:42,440 Speaker 1: There's cinnamon rolls that have cooled on the counter, obviously 277 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 1: you know she was making them for Kelly. And everything 278 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:50,400 Speaker 1: is perfectly in order. Her suitcases are here, she's not 279 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 1: gone on a trip. Both of her vehicles are here. 280 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:57,240 Speaker 1: The only thing missing her pocketbook and cell phone. But 281 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 1: then when cops came in, which may what they saw 282 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:05,159 Speaker 1: was invisible to the naked eye of the brother, they 283 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:09,040 Speaker 1: make an arrest for murder. One was there a pool 284 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:12,479 Speaker 1: of blood that was cleaned up and detected by Lumino. 285 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:15,399 Speaker 1: Did they find blood spatter in a place it shouldn't be? 286 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:17,879 Speaker 1: I know what I mean. You shave your legs and 287 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:20,639 Speaker 1: cut your ankle and there's some blood in the tub. No, 288 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:25,160 Speaker 1: I mean blood spatter, So just from a gunshot or 289 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 1: from a blowback, or blood spatter up on the ceiling, 290 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:33,440 Speaker 1: which means a hammer or a bat or an object, 291 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:36,439 Speaker 1: a blunt object was used to hit her. They found 292 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:38,680 Speaker 1: something and suddenly we got to murder one charge your 293 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:42,919 Speaker 1: way in Elan Klaurin. That's great dancing. Whatever investigators sound 294 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:46,159 Speaker 1: in Kelsey Barr's townhouse in the last few days, it 295 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:49,639 Speaker 1: wasn't something that was immediately obvious to a non investigator, 296 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 1: so it was something that had to be detected. They 297 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 1: were in the house a couple of times last week. 298 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:59,440 Speaker 1: They were follow up visits, and we know that well, 299 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:03,400 Speaker 1: we can speculates strongly that something was found Thursday night. 300 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:07,000 Speaker 1: That was very strong evidence because it was the next 301 00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 1: day that Patter Crazy was arrested just hours later. But 302 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:13,920 Speaker 1: I would also argue that in addition to whatever physical 303 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 1: evidence they found, and as we said, there is nobody yet, 304 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:21,920 Speaker 1: I would speculate that there's also something coming from whatever 305 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:26,960 Speaker 1: third or more parties are included in this solicitation charge 306 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:30,680 Speaker 1: because we know that there are there is another person 307 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:34,600 Speaker 1: or in people somehow involved in this crime and Nancy. 308 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:36,720 Speaker 1: Just in the last few hours, there's been some new 309 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:41,919 Speaker 1: information out in Idaho. Twin Falls police have released a 310 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 1: statement saying that they have discovered possible evidence related to 311 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:49,919 Speaker 1: this case. They have not said what it is, but 312 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:55,200 Speaker 1: it's significant because we know that Kelty Barris's cellphone pinged 313 00:18:55,600 --> 00:19:00,320 Speaker 1: near Gooding, Idaho, on November twenty fifth, three days after 314 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:04,159 Speaker 1: she went missing, and Twin Falls, Idaho is probably forty 315 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:07,639 Speaker 1: forty five miles from that area. My thought exactly, ek, 316 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:11,280 Speaker 1: because I've been wondering from the get go whether her 317 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:15,119 Speaker 1: body is wherever that cell phone pay nearly eight hundred 318 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 1: miles away from home. Listen, Yes, her phone did end 319 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:22,200 Speaker 1: up in Idaho, and we're still working to recover that phone. 320 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:25,280 Speaker 1: And that's about all I can comment. But that phone 321 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:29,120 Speaker 1: information was accurate. Her phone did end up in Idaho, 322 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 1: and we're working to try to recover that. Hi. Nancy 323 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:44,560 Speaker 1: Grace here, have you ever googled yourself, your neighbors, somebody 324 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:48,680 Speaker 1: at work? A crush fifty seven percent of Americans admit 325 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 1: keeping an eye on their own online reputation. Forty six 326 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 1: admit to using the Internet to look up somebody from 327 00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:58,720 Speaker 1: their past. But Google and Facebook the tip of the 328 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:02,040 Speaker 1: iceberg when it comes to of finding personal information. There's 329 00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 1: an innovative new website called Truthfinder. It's now revealing the 330 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 1: full scoop on millions of Americans. Truthfinder can search through 331 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:14,120 Speaker 1: hundreds of millions of public records in a matter of minutes. 332 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:19,200 Speaker 1: Truthfinder members can literally begin searching in seconds for system 333 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:23,960 Speaker 1: data like criminal traffic arrest records. Before you bring someone 334 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:26,960 Speaker 1: new into your life and around the people you care 335 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:32,920 Speaker 1: for your children, consider using Truthfinder. What you find may 336 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:37,000 Speaker 1: astound you. Go to truthfinder dot com forward slash Nancy 337 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:41,760 Speaker 1: right away to start searching truthfinder dot com forward slash 338 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:48,280 Speaker 1: Nancy Truthfinder dot com forward slash Nancy. Find the truth 339 00:20:53,680 --> 00:21:00,440 Speaker 1: crime stories with Nancy Grace. Truly quiet. I mean she's 340 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:03,680 Speaker 1: really preserved. Usually she was always at you know, the homebody. 341 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:06,119 Speaker 1: If she wasn't at school that works, she was, you know, 342 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:09,440 Speaker 1: hanging out at home. He stilways telling me she wanted 343 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:12,680 Speaker 1: to marry godly man. She was pretty strong willed in 344 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 1: her beliefs, and sometimes I thought she couldn't find anybody 345 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 1: that would was stronger than her, and that's what she wanted. 346 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:22,159 Speaker 1: And she considers her mother her best friend. Kelsey and 347 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:25,080 Speaker 1: her mom typically talk quite often. I mean they were 348 00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 1: attached to the hip since she was a little I mean, 349 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:29,520 Speaker 1: see Grace, this is crime Stories. Thank you for being 350 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:35,200 Speaker 1: with us. In the last hours. The fiance of missing 351 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 1: mom Kelsey Barrett has been in court. That is SAP 352 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:43,720 Speaker 1: standard operating procedure. He is being held without bond. The 353 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:47,760 Speaker 1: search for Kelsey has come to an end, and not 354 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:53,200 Speaker 1: in the way we wanted. Her fiance, Patrick Phrasie, charged 355 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 1: with murder, but in the last hours, studying developments unfolding 356 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 1: there in Colorado with me Ashley Willcott, judge lawyer. You 357 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 1: can find her at Ashley Willcott on Facebook. Dave Max 358 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:12,800 Speaker 1: syndicated talk show host, Joseph Scott Morgan forensics expert, Ellen Colauren, 359 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:16,960 Speaker 1: Crime online dot com investigative reporter, and Karen Stark, renowned 360 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:20,600 Speaker 1: psychologist joining us out of New York with me in 361 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:23,720 Speaker 1: La Alan. Do you here in the studio, Jackie Howard, 362 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 1: I want to talk about love, love interest. I'll get 363 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:32,960 Speaker 1: back to the mother. But Karen Stark, how many times 364 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:37,760 Speaker 1: have I prosecuted a murder or some crazy crime and 365 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 1: the first place you look is the so called love interest, 366 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:45,520 Speaker 1: the husband, the why, the boyfriend, the girlfriend, the ex, 367 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 1: the what it could be, any variation of that In 368 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 1: this case, do you suspect and I did not suspect 369 00:22:55,280 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 1: this at first, do you suspect he had a lover? 370 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:05,560 Speaker 1: I mean, look at Chris Watts, beautiful wife to children 371 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:11,080 Speaker 1: Bella and Celeste. He kills all of them and forces 372 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,919 Speaker 1: his daughter's body, ages three and four, into oil canisters. 373 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:19,360 Speaker 1: You know, just the oil canisters were eight inches wide 374 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:23,480 Speaker 1: at the opening. The children's shoulders were at least nine inches. 375 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 1: So imagine that scenario for a moment. You've got Scott 376 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 1: Peterson kill Lacy and his unborn child Connor. I mean, 377 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:36,800 Speaker 1: it goes on and on. You think, why didn't they 378 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:43,120 Speaker 1: just get a dove vores? It's so elementary, Karen, help me, Well, 379 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 1: I guess, Nancy, there would be no crimes to that 380 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,359 Speaker 1: were the case, as they could just be logical and 381 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:51,560 Speaker 1: say this relationship is over and I'm just going to 382 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:54,920 Speaker 1: get out of it. But instead you're talking about people 383 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:58,680 Speaker 1: who are capable of committing murder, which means that they 384 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:02,240 Speaker 1: are psychopaths and they don't have the kind of emotions 385 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 1: that would make them just say, I can't possibly think 386 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:08,919 Speaker 1: of killing someone. That's one of the first things that 387 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,920 Speaker 1: come to mind. Gee, I'm in this dilemma. I've got 388 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:14,160 Speaker 1: somebody else I love, so I think I'll just get 389 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:17,800 Speaker 1: rid of the person that I'm with. And honestly, it's 390 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 1: that kind of thinking that happens in a criminal mind. 391 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:25,359 Speaker 1: That's what you're talking about, and we've covered it over 392 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:29,640 Speaker 1: and over again. To Ellen colorin Crime online dot Com 393 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:34,439 Speaker 1: investigative reporter Ellen, is there a girlfriend? Because at the 394 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:38,199 Speaker 1: get go, Alan dou Alan Do, who I love to 395 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,439 Speaker 1: argue with, kept going she didn't have a wedding dress, 396 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:46,879 Speaker 1: and I kept saying, Alan, Ellen. We decided David not 397 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:50,040 Speaker 1: on Tuesday to get married. We got married on Saturday. 398 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:54,720 Speaker 1: We were more interested in getting enough food and booze 399 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:59,000 Speaker 1: for those that drank at the wedding. It was a 400 00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:02,560 Speaker 1: very small I brought up my pastor of my youth 401 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:07,879 Speaker 1: that helped me get through my fiancee's murder, Bill William Oliver. 402 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:10,879 Speaker 1: He came to the wedding. We had a very small wedding. 403 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:13,840 Speaker 1: I thought, oh, my stars, I don't have a dress. 404 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,080 Speaker 1: I ordered a dress. I would not call it a 405 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:21,119 Speaker 1: wedding dress. It is now in two sizes, okay, to 406 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:23,679 Speaker 1: make sure one of them would fit. And I marched 407 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 1: myself over to, Uh, what's the shoe warehouse? D is it? Dsk? 408 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:34,040 Speaker 1: I can't can't remember now, Um, what is it? What's 409 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:38,240 Speaker 1: the name of that warehouse? Ellen? Okay, I know that 410 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 1: that that's it. I was gonna have to go to 411 00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:43,200 Speaker 1: back up with Ashley Wilcox. I know she has a 412 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:46,720 Speaker 1: daughter that would know just exactly what it is, got 413 00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:50,000 Speaker 1: some shoes, and bam we were married. So I pooh 414 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 1: poohed Alan's assertion that, um, this was stinky. He smelled 415 00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:58,560 Speaker 1: a fish because she didn't have a wedding dress. They 416 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:00,840 Speaker 1: had been engaged for a while, beho one year old 417 00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:03,879 Speaker 1: daughter together. They did not live together. I thought that 418 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 1: was at odd that they didn't want to get married 419 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:10,800 Speaker 1: and lived together. But not every girl grows up dreaming 420 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:15,080 Speaker 1: Prince Charming all right, rescuing her. Some of us grow 421 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:19,560 Speaker 1: up thinking about riding horses and traveling across the world 422 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:23,400 Speaker 1: in an RV and writing books and how did they 423 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 1: invent the telephone. I don't get it things like that, 424 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:31,439 Speaker 1: all right. When a lot of girls were imagining Prince Charming, 425 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 1: I was running through red dirt playing in a creek. Okay, 426 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:39,000 Speaker 1: So not everybody thinks along those lines. So that did 427 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,639 Speaker 1: not bother me at all. But now the spectrum of 428 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 1: a girlfriend is raising its ugly head. Ellen, what do 429 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:49,359 Speaker 1: you know if anything? Nothing is confirmed? But Nancy, I 430 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,440 Speaker 1: can tell you that there are a lot of rumors 431 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:56,399 Speaker 1: and speculation that are flying around, and some of it 432 00:26:56,480 --> 00:27:00,359 Speaker 1: is coming from sources that we think probably have some 433 00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:05,200 Speaker 1: connection to the investigation. There is a lot of speculation. 434 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:07,840 Speaker 1: None of it has been confirmed by law enforcement, and 435 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:10,199 Speaker 1: none of it has been confirmed yet by any of 436 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:13,240 Speaker 1: the local news agencies that are out there covering this case. 437 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 1: I can tell you, though, that they are looking at it. 438 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:20,159 Speaker 1: There is I would not be surprised if it comes 439 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:24,960 Speaker 1: out that there was another person in Patrick's life. Okay. 440 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:26,240 Speaker 1: So I was waiting for you to get into that 441 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:29,320 Speaker 1: moment because Alan Deep joined me in LA I couldn't 442 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,439 Speaker 1: figure out if she was trying to say Kelsey had 443 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,800 Speaker 1: a boyfriend on the side, or a Patrick Phrasie had 444 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:39,320 Speaker 1: a girlfriend and I'm certainly putting that euphemistically on the side, 445 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:41,200 Speaker 1: but she finally got to it right there in the 446 00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,600 Speaker 1: last couple of words. A girlfriend on Phrasie's part, what 447 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:46,879 Speaker 1: do you know if anything? Alan Deep, Well, I'm getting 448 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,880 Speaker 1: the same kind of rumblings from people who know law 449 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,840 Speaker 1: enforcement sources. I'm talking about former cops who are close 450 00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,000 Speaker 1: to them. Tell me watch there will be another arrest, 451 00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,600 Speaker 1: that a person who was romantically involved with him has 452 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:04,200 Speaker 1: been interrogated and is cooperating with police. And so they say, 453 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:06,359 Speaker 1: just stand by. Not sure when it's going to happen, 454 00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:09,840 Speaker 1: of course, because of the holiday week, but they say 455 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,520 Speaker 1: watch for it. Okay, I want to ask Karen Starve 456 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 1: the obvious what is wrong with men? But you know what, 457 00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:18,600 Speaker 1: I'm going to go for a lay opinion, and I 458 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:22,320 Speaker 1: very rarely refer to Ashley Wilcott as a layperson. She's 459 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:26,240 Speaker 1: a judge and she's a lawyer. But Ashley, really, he's 460 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 1: not even married. Just break up, for Pete's sake. Just 461 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:32,840 Speaker 1: break up. You don't even have to get a divorce, 462 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:35,600 Speaker 1: you don't even have to undo the I do. You 463 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:41,040 Speaker 1: just break up and work out custody. So why listen? Granted, 464 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:43,160 Speaker 1: I'm a judge and I hear these kinds of cases 465 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:47,280 Speaker 1: all the time. Nancy, I'm so tired of it. Why 466 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:50,240 Speaker 1: why is the question? If we could answer that we 467 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:52,840 Speaker 1: could prevent this from happening, and that's never going to happen. 468 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:55,960 Speaker 1: I don't get it. I don't know, but I'm so 469 00:28:56,280 --> 00:29:00,280 Speaker 1: tired of there's another woman. I'm seeing this other one 470 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,720 Speaker 1: and I'm going to kill my fiance or my girlfriend. 471 00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 1: I'm with you. Break up, you have a child together, 472 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:09,720 Speaker 1: raise that child as fit parents instead of committing murder. 473 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:14,160 Speaker 1: So straight out to Karen Stark, I agree with Ashley. 474 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:17,200 Speaker 1: Could you help me, Karen. I keep saying that to you, 475 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:21,040 Speaker 1: and you keep saying things that are sound really smart, 476 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 1: but it's just not getting three. These two weren't even married. 477 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:27,400 Speaker 1: If there's a love interest on his part, why not 478 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:29,640 Speaker 1: just break up for Pete's sake. They don't even have 479 00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:32,760 Speaker 1: to go to see a lawyer. You know, it's I know, 480 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:35,160 Speaker 1: it's so hard to believe. And I want to say 481 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:38,080 Speaker 1: this to you, Nancy and to Ashley, because it comes 482 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:40,200 Speaker 1: up over and over again and people are saying it 483 00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:43,840 Speaker 1: again now that it just doesn't make sense. Why not 484 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:47,280 Speaker 1: go the easy roof. But if you're somebody who has 485 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:52,520 Speaker 1: the kind of mind where you think that death means nothing, 486 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,400 Speaker 1: that it's just easier to get rid of a person 487 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,320 Speaker 1: than to have to stess up and say, what's really 488 00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 1: happening in your life. I'm not going to take that 489 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 1: route of confronting the person. You're going to do something 490 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 1: complicated to make sure you never have to deal with 491 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 1: them again. Raise your child, and for some reason they 492 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:14,000 Speaker 1: are able to envision the fact that they would get 493 00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:17,280 Speaker 1: away with this, although they never almost never get away 494 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:20,280 Speaker 1: with it, especially if you hire someone to assist you. 495 00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:24,080 Speaker 1: Yet it keeps going on. You know. That's one of 496 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:27,280 Speaker 1: the favorite things I love to say to defense lawyers 497 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,960 Speaker 1: when they come up with zany defense theories, and that is, okay, 498 00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:36,440 Speaker 1: let's follow your assertion. Let's just follow it through that 499 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:40,240 Speaker 1: you say, let's just pick the Stephen Avery making murder case. 500 00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:46,160 Speaker 1: That police framed Stephen Avery. That would mean that police 501 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:52,400 Speaker 1: had to murder Theresa hallback themselves, burn her body, and 502 00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:56,160 Speaker 1: plant her car. So in order to just just follow 503 00:30:56,200 --> 00:31:00,520 Speaker 1: through police framed him. Follow it through. What's to happen? 504 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:03,040 Speaker 1: What does that mean that they committed the murder themselves 505 00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:07,520 Speaker 1: in this case. That's an example. In this case, let's 506 00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:11,320 Speaker 1: follow through the assertion there is a lover, So what 507 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:15,120 Speaker 1: they thought they'd kill her? And then what nobody would notice? 508 00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 1: Right now, the search is on no longer for Kelsey Barrett, 509 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:28,320 Speaker 1: but for Kelsey Brett's body. Part of what we're dealing 510 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 1: with is how fluid this investigation is. Um I tried 511 00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:33,080 Speaker 1: to do a press conference last night, but things have 512 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 1: been changing hourly. At this point, I don't want to 513 00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:43,920 Speaker 1: speculate where her body is. At this point. Believe that 514 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:56,880 Speaker 1: the actual murder investigators have recovered a number of items 515 00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:59,200 Speaker 1: that make us suspicious that the crime did occur at 516 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:01,800 Speaker 1: Kelsey's resident and that's why we have been coming back 517 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:05,640 Speaker 1: to her residence as we get additional information that leads 518 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:09,400 Speaker 1: us to various locations. Online, thousands are following a Facebook 519 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:13,000 Speaker 1: page dedicated to the search that's regularly posting pictures and 520 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:16,200 Speaker 1: updates on her case. Her brother traveled to Colorado to 521 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:19,560 Speaker 1: help find her, posting After arriving at Kelsey's house and 522 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,680 Speaker 1: combing through her things, we know one thing is certain. 523 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:26,480 Speaker 1: Kelsey did not pack to go anywhere. All luggage is here. 524 00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:29,400 Speaker 1: Her purse is all that seems to have gone. I 525 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:34,640 Speaker 1: always considered him to be a gentle soul, soft spoken 526 00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:40,200 Speaker 1: and just really down to earth and practical. Sonia Oliver 527 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:43,320 Speaker 1: says she has known Phrasey, a rancher for five years. 528 00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:46,440 Speaker 1: Do you think he possibly had anything to do with 529 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:51,240 Speaker 1: his fiance's disappearance. I couldn't imagine him doing anything that 530 00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:53,959 Speaker 1: would harm anyone. You personally do not believe he had 531 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:57,200 Speaker 1: anything to do with it. I just can't imagine Patrick 532 00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:01,160 Speaker 1: doing anything like that. She's a farm kid, drovis author 533 00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:03,920 Speaker 1: for her dad, and she were they far when she'd 534 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,080 Speaker 1: watched the crowd duster's take off, and she says, I 535 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:08,920 Speaker 1: want to do that. Kelsey Barrett's uncle says his niece 536 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 1: discovered both growing up in rural Washington States. I think 537 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:14,680 Speaker 1: she had a point in her life she didn't know 538 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:16,400 Speaker 1: she wanted to be a farmer or a pilot. I 539 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:18,760 Speaker 1: mean she wanted both. The search is on for the 540 00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:24,080 Speaker 1: body of missing mom flight instructor Kelsey Barrett, but this 541 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:27,400 Speaker 1: is what we know. Her fiance, he has been referred 542 00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:30,680 Speaker 1: to as a gentle giant, has been charged with not 543 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:36,200 Speaker 1: only murderer, but solicitation, which means he asked someone to 544 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:42,760 Speaker 1: help him commit murder, but there's no body, you know, 545 00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:48,480 Speaker 1: plainly speaking, you know you can prove a murder without 546 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:55,000 Speaker 1: a body. I remember a case where a preschool teacher 547 00:33:55,200 --> 00:34:00,520 Speaker 1: was followed as she jogged in Atlanta. She tried to 548 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:02,680 Speaker 1: pretend she was going up to somebody's house like it 549 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:07,240 Speaker 1: was her own, but the perhaps saw through that. Months 550 00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:11,600 Speaker 1: went by before the case was soft. She was killed 551 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:17,439 Speaker 1: and then way on her glass eyeball nobody even knew 552 00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:22,200 Speaker 1: she had one, was found and that started the murder investigation. 553 00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:24,920 Speaker 1: Her full body was never found, and that was a 554 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:31,160 Speaker 1: successful prosecution. But generally speaking, wouldn't you agree Ashley Willcott 555 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:34,200 Speaker 1: that it's a lot tougher to make a murder case 556 00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:37,360 Speaker 1: without a body. It's absolutely tougher. But I am going 557 00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:42,360 Speaker 1: to say this, with today's technology and today's desire to 558 00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:46,600 Speaker 1: prosecute and convict those who have committed crimes, we've seen 559 00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:49,120 Speaker 1: it all, we've seen them dry it. Without a body, 560 00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:53,760 Speaker 1: it's possible, much harder to ek. Ellen Colaura and Crime 561 00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:58,319 Speaker 1: online dot Com investigative reporter I have been speculating that 562 00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:04,000 Speaker 1: her body may be where her cell phone pinged almost 563 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:06,719 Speaker 1: eight hundred miles away from homes just three days after 564 00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:10,759 Speaker 1: She was last seen alive on Safeway Grosser Stores surveillance 565 00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:14,120 Speaker 1: video with her daughter. I'd like to know did his 566 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,000 Speaker 1: cell phone paying in the same spot? Did his cell 567 00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:22,160 Speaker 1: phone track along the route from Colorado to that spot? 568 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:25,600 Speaker 1: But right now I'm wondering if her cell phone is 569 00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:29,160 Speaker 1: with her body. Eka. Well, Nancy, it sounds like your 570 00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:33,960 Speaker 1: prediction may have been accurate. We don't know exactly what 571 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:38,160 Speaker 1: possible evidence has been found in Idaho, but we know 572 00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:41,600 Speaker 1: that it's something that authorities are taking very, very seriously. 573 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:44,560 Speaker 1: We're just learning this in the last few hours that 574 00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:48,480 Speaker 1: twin false. Police haven't joined the investigation, but we know 575 00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:53,880 Speaker 1: that authorities in Colorado asked for their cooperation a week ago, 576 00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 1: so this is something that they've been looking up for 577 00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:58,400 Speaker 1: a long time. We know that they don't have a 578 00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:02,279 Speaker 1: body Kelsey bears home. We know that they don't have 579 00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:06,120 Speaker 1: a body on Patrick Frazy's thirty five acre property in Florescence. 580 00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,879 Speaker 1: Is there a body in Idaho? Is her phone there? 581 00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:13,040 Speaker 1: We don't know exactly what is there yet, but it 582 00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:16,680 Speaker 1: sure sounds like something is okay. Do you know whether 583 00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:21,120 Speaker 1: or not he Patrick Frazy had life insurance on Kelsey 584 00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:23,960 Speaker 1: Barrett because one facet of the Chris Watts case that 585 00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:27,640 Speaker 1: was little discussed was he had, as I recall, about 586 00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:31,319 Speaker 1: ninety thousand dollars worth of insurance on her, so her 587 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:35,600 Speaker 1: death or disappearance would have benefited him financially. And we've 588 00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:40,520 Speaker 1: been told that Patrick Frasy was having money problems. I 589 00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:45,640 Speaker 1: have not seen or heard anything about a life insurance 590 00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:52,320 Speaker 1: policy taken out on Kelsey Barrett either me either? Okay? 591 00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:56,000 Speaker 1: To Dave Max, Syndicated talk show host Dave Mac, what 592 00:36:56,200 --> 00:37:00,719 Speaker 1: are you learning from your sources regarding the location of 593 00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:04,200 Speaker 1: Kelsey's body, I'm exactly what you are. I've actually talked 594 00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:06,439 Speaker 1: to some friends out in Twin Falls, Idaho to see 595 00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:10,480 Speaker 1: what's happening out there, and I think you're dead on right. 596 00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:13,359 Speaker 1: Wherever her phone is, that's where her body is. But again, 597 00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:16,040 Speaker 1: you go back to the investigation into her town home. 598 00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:20,239 Speaker 1: The police you mentioned blood spatter earlier. The only way 599 00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:22,759 Speaker 1: they could determine that Kelsey was no longer with us 600 00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:26,600 Speaker 1: is by blood evidence that they found inside the town home. 601 00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:28,560 Speaker 1: We all know you can clean it up on top, 602 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:30,560 Speaker 1: but you dropped lumen all in there and all of 603 00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:34,080 Speaker 1: a sudden it lights up, so nobody. They only could 604 00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:37,319 Speaker 1: have found body fluid of blood in her town home 605 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:39,600 Speaker 1: to the degree that led them to believe she's no 606 00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:45,120 Speaker 1: longer with us. Right now, the investigation goes on. Our 607 00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:49,440 Speaker 1: prayers to Kelsey's family and especially for her little girl. 608 00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:53,400 Speaker 1: It now appears she will live life without her mother 609 00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:58,800 Speaker 1: and her father behind bars. As all of us gather 610 00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:03,640 Speaker 1: for Christmas and the New Year, she's all alone without 611 00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:08,840 Speaker 1: her mommy. Nancy Gray's Crime Story, signing off Goodbye Friend.