Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: Hey, welcome to Weird House Cinema. My name's Rob Lamb.
Speaker 3: And I'm Joe McCormick. In Today's the Day. I get
Speaker 3: to admit that, you know, Rob, sometimes I just want
Speaker 3: to live in a cyber panic movie from the early nineties.
Speaker 2: Why is that?
Speaker 3: Well, there were a lot of movies like these, and
Speaker 3: something about them is so cool, these movies from like
Speaker 3: say nineteen eighty nine to nineteen ninety five or so
Speaker 3: that we're clearly obsessed with the thrilling and terrifying potential
Speaker 3: of email and the World Wide Web and usually for
Speaker 3: some reason, virtual reality at the same time. So one
Speaker 3: of the greats in this genre is Hackers, which came
Speaker 3: out in Night teen ninety five, full cast of Matthew
Speaker 3: Lillard's and associated Lillardians all just hacking it up, hacking
Speaker 3: with joysticks, hacking with video game controllers. They square off
Speaker 3: against Fisher Stevens in a hacker versus hacker battle. It's
Speaker 3: absolutely glorious. This is an all time great, worthy of
Speaker 3: an episode of its own someday.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I never saw this one, but this one, Hackers
Speaker 2: is like, really, really attractive, cool hacker dudes and chicks
Speaker 2: battling it out right.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, they're like super punk. And that's a thing that
Speaker 3: these early nineties movies really like. They're made by adults
Speaker 3: who don't know how to use email and they're scared
Speaker 3: of it, but they're writing a movie about it, and
Speaker 3: so you know, they can't tell the difference between say,
Speaker 3: like anarco punk subculture and kids who know how to
Speaker 3: use computers. It all just blends together for them, so
Speaker 3: like computers and hacking are basically the same as skateboarding
Speaker 3: and graffiti.
Speaker 2: And I guess it's probably complicated too by the existence
Speaker 2: of cyberpunk as a genre that tends to have the
Speaker 2: punk elements and industrial elements combined with some of these
Speaker 2: the same cutting edge technological ideas, right.
Speaker 3: And then, of course, another nineteen ninety five movie was
Speaker 3: The Net, which had Sandra Bullock. She watched Sandra Bullock
Speaker 3: get caught in the Net. This is one where the
Speaker 3: hacker becomes the hacked. Sandra Bullock plays like a computer
Speaker 3: nerd who is so obsessed with computers she even orders
Speaker 3: pizza over the internet. Can you imagine. And then it's
Speaker 3: supposed to like just absolutely melt your mind with this concept.
Speaker 3: But then somebody hacks her back and a deadly game
Speaker 3: of hacking cat and mouse, ensus she has to like
Speaker 3: run around, and you know, there was a common thing.
Speaker 3: It shows up in the movie We're going to be
Speaker 3: talking about today as well. There's a common thing in
Speaker 3: these early nineties cyber panic movies that that, like, by
Speaker 3: hacking into a computer or an electrical grid, you could
Speaker 3: always get a full like blueprint schematic of any building
Speaker 3: and have access to all of the appliances in that
Speaker 3: building and control over them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just absolute power. And of course, this is
Speaker 2: the confusing thing about all of this, it is that
Speaker 2: is that, yes, there there are concerns about hacking, hackers
Speaker 2: being able to access things like, you know, electrical grid
Speaker 2: systems and infrastructure and so forth. Like these are not
Speaker 2: in and of themselves unrealistic concepts, but the ease of
Speaker 2: access is often way overstated, or it's or certainly it's
Speaker 2: it's visually presented to the audience in a way that
Speaker 2: seems to simplify it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and a lot of times it's hard to tell
Speaker 3: whether the oversimplification that's going on of the computer stuff
Speaker 3: in these nineties movies, whether that is is just trying
Speaker 3: to make the story go along more smoothly. You know,
Speaker 3: they're simplifying it in the same way that you would
Speaker 3: have you know, technobabble in any other science fiction movie
Speaker 3: that's massively oversimplified, just to make it clear. Okay, here's
Speaker 3: what the plot stakes are. Now we can move on.
Speaker 3: Or whether it's just like people had no idea what
Speaker 3: they were talking about.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, there's always that element of yeah, they don't
Speaker 2: really they know it's cutting edge and they know that
Speaker 2: we should be afraid of it to some extent, but
Speaker 2: that's it doesn't go a lot deeper than that. But
Speaker 2: of course the fear is key, I mean, because you're
Speaker 2: dealing with science fiction. Really in all these cases, even
Speaker 2: in something like The Net, it is about modern day
Speaker 2: anxieties and fears over where technology is taking us, and
Speaker 2: this concern that technology will not just purely reflect the
Speaker 2: best of us, but will also reflect the worst of us,
Speaker 2: and the worst of humanity will be tied up in it.
Speaker 2: And really the movie we're going to look at today
Speaker 2: is a very literal exploration of the latter theme.
Speaker 3: Right, So today we're going to be talking about an
Speaker 3: early ninety cyber panic movie that came before Hackers, before
Speaker 3: the Net. It is Rachel Talalay's Ghost in the Machine
Speaker 3: from nineteen ninety.
Speaker 2: Three, not to be confused with nineteen ninety five's Ghost
Speaker 2: in the Shell. Mamoru Oshi's anime adaptation of Massive Mooney
Speaker 2: Shiros nineteen eighty nine manga.
Speaker 3: Nothing really I've never seen. I know it's quite popular.
Speaker 3: It's is it also about like people getting their brains
Speaker 3: in computers?
Speaker 2: I mean yeah, to the extent that yeah, I mean
Speaker 2: to a certain extent, but it's like it's total like
Speaker 2: futuristic cyberpunk anime and really quite good, especially especially the
Speaker 2: first two films that came out, Ghost in the Shell
Speaker 2: and Ghost in the Shell too. There's a lot of
Speaker 2: other stuff out there they did, like a TV series,
Speaker 2: but yeah, I mean it's it's it's pivotal cyberpunk anime
Speaker 2: for sure, Okay, but it.
Speaker 3: Like full on embraces like like deep future thinking about
Speaker 3: the you know, extreme possibilities. This is not like there's
Speaker 3: a demon in the ATM, which is probably the speed
Speaker 3: we're talking about.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, this So this is Ghost in the Machine
Speaker 2: from nineteen ninety three, which I have to mention is
Speaker 2: one year after The Lawnmower Man, which of course, is
Speaker 2: the virtual reality film that is ever so loosely, ever
Speaker 2: so loosely based on a Stephen Kings short story about
Speaker 2: a man who eats grass.
Speaker 3: Could you even say based? I mean, I don't even
Speaker 3: know what is the same other than the fact that
Speaker 3: there is a lawnmower in it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, virtually nothing. I feel like there might have even
Speaker 2: been some thread where they had to like remove King's
Speaker 2: name from it. I don't know there was a I'm
Speaker 2: not sure if that's that's true or not, but it
Speaker 2: was supposedly a Stephen King adaptation, but it was just this,
Speaker 2: you know, crazy virtual reality cyber escape film.
Speaker 3: Okay, So I got to give the elevator pitch on
Speaker 3: Ghost in the Machine, and I was looking at the
Speaker 3: VHS box art, and I feel like I cannot do
Speaker 3: any better than the copy on the VHS. So I
Speaker 3: got to read straight from that. Last night, a serial
Speaker 3: killer died. His body was laid to rest, but his
Speaker 3: soul has come online, free to continue his reign of
Speaker 3: terror by using electronic circuitry. The serial killer's next target
Speaker 3: is the unsuspecting Terry Monroe. Karen Allen and her teenage son.
Speaker 3: Their only chance for survival is with the help of
Speaker 3: a brilliant quote computer hacker. In this suspenseful techno thriller,
Speaker 3: terror strikes when it's least expected, and the only cure
Speaker 3: for this virus is to destroy it.
Speaker 2: All right, Well, well, let's let's go the next step
Speaker 2: and just have a splash of that audio trailer.
Speaker 3: Oh. I think it'll probably repeat some of the same
Speaker 3: words I just said, So ready yourself. This is good
Speaker 3: to beforing terry.
Speaker 2: Oh is this I'm.
Speaker 3: Killing your friends? Looks like there were someone else in
Speaker 3: there with us.
Speaker 2: The killer died in this.
Speaker 3: And it was plugged into your computer. There's no way
Speaker 3: anyone can kill somebody with a computer ghost in the machine,
Speaker 3: plug into your worst nightmare. Man. I love that trailer,
Speaker 3: so so so good. When I was reading about this movie,
Speaker 3: I hadn't seen it yet, and so I had to.
Speaker 3: I watched the trailer to see, like, is this gonna
Speaker 3: be worth watching? And that pulled me in hard.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree. When you sent the trailer to me.
Speaker 2: When I when I watched it all the way through,
Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, I think this is going to be it.
Speaker 2: I think Joe's gonna gonna go for this one once
Speaker 2: he gives it a test run.
Speaker 3: So I guess maybe we should start by talking about
Speaker 3: some of the people of Note, and then we can
Speaker 3: talk about the plot a little bit and then get
Speaker 3: into some ideas and connections. And I guess the best
Speaker 3: place to start is with the director, Rachel Talala, who
Speaker 3: is the brain behind a number of great Bad Taste classics.
Speaker 3: For example, Yeah, fred Freddy's Dead, the Final Nightmare. It
Speaker 3: was not the final one, but it was the sixth one.
Speaker 3: It came out in nineteen ninety one, and in a minute,
Speaker 3: I wanted to talk about how she worked her way
Speaker 3: up to directing that movie. But if you don't remember
Speaker 3: which one that is, it's the one where Robert England
Speaker 3: has become a full on, just stand up comedian or
Speaker 3: maybe more applicably applicably a prop comic. He's like Carrot
Speaker 3: Top in this movie, just full comedian jokes as he
Speaker 3: kills people.
Speaker 2: Like he kills so that he can make puns at
Speaker 2: this point y right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, I remember this movie also, for some reason,
Speaker 3: has Tom Arnold and Roseanne Barr, and I think they're
Speaker 3: just cameos.
Speaker 2: The only thing I remember about it is that it
Speaker 2: had a notable or I think it was notable in
Speaker 2: a goya Avita scene where they're playing iron butterflies in
Speaker 2: a goya Avita and there's like Freddy's coming out of
Speaker 2: televi vision or something, or maybe somebody sucked into a
Speaker 2: television I don't remember.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that sounds right. Another movie she made one that
Speaker 3: I haven't seen but I really want to see now
Speaker 3: because reading about it it sounds pretty great. Is tank
Speaker 3: Girl from nineteen ninety five. This is a sort of
Speaker 3: post apocalyptic Warrior of the Desert movie.
Speaker 2: Yeah, now, tank Girl. I remember when it came out,
Speaker 2: and I remember catching clips of it, either there were
Speaker 2: just clips on a clip show where maybe I saw
Speaker 2: part of it on TV, and I remember like really
Speaker 2: digging it and wanting to see it at the time,
Speaker 2: because you know, it has all these crazy elements going on,
Speaker 2: and you got Malcolm mcdowe with some sort of a
Speaker 2: crazy robot arm.
Speaker 3: He's like an evil corporate overlord who like's trying to
Speaker 3: buy up all the water, yeah.
Speaker 2: In the desert for some reason. You've got I think
Speaker 2: it's a post apocalyptic like a commets hit the earth
Speaker 2: or something. You got Iced Tea as a Ripper, which
Speaker 2: is like a mutant kangaroo person, and then you got
Speaker 2: Lori Petty as tank Girl, who was just you know,
Speaker 2: overflowing with manic energy and nineties coolness along with just
Speaker 2: you know, just a cool aesthetic vibe to it. So
Speaker 2: I remember, I remember really wanting to see it, and
Speaker 2: then I didn't see it, and by the time it
Speaker 2: had become available to watch on VHS or whatever, I
Speaker 2: had forgotten about it. So I I've never actually seen
Speaker 2: it all the way through. I think I picked it
Speaker 2: up a time or two, and the bad taste aspect
Speaker 2: came into play, Like like you said, some of these
Speaker 2: films are kind of bad taste films where you know
Speaker 2: there's maybe some bits of it are a little bit
Speaker 2: cruder than you think they're going to be, and you
Speaker 2: just I don't know. In my case, I might have
Speaker 2: decided previously, like I don't know if I'm in the
Speaker 2: mood for this right now. I after we finished, after
Speaker 2: I finished watching Ghost in the Machine, I put Tank
Speaker 2: Girl back on again because it's as is this recording
Speaker 2: available on Amazon Prime in the in the United States,
Speaker 2: and I have to say it's it's I'm enjoying it
Speaker 2: thus far. There continue to be some of those those
Speaker 2: bad taste touch points where I'm like, oh, this is
Speaker 2: kind of a mixed bag, but there are things about
Speaker 2: it that I like. So we'll see. I'm gonna probably
Speaker 2: keep watching it.
Speaker 3: Well, So she's got a new movie out just this
Speaker 3: year called A Babysitters Guide to Monster Hunting, which I
Speaker 3: haven't seen, but looking at her resume, it seems like
Speaker 3: in recent years Taloy mostly directs TV episodes, including episodes
Speaker 3: of Chilling Adventures of Sabrina, of Sherlock, and of course
Speaker 3: of Doctor Who, so our beloved Hoovioids out there? Like,
Speaker 3: what do you think of her episodes? I think they're
Speaker 3: mostly in the Peter Capaldi seasons.
Speaker 2: I don't think they're called hoovioids though, I think I think, no,
Speaker 2: that's it. That's what it is, all right.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's done a great deal of TV work, though,
Speaker 2: Like it's just a lot of top tier genre stuff.
Speaker 2: I know, she did an episode of Doom Patrol, which
Speaker 2: is a show that I've been enjoying.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Talla has got a pretty interesting career trajectory. So,
Speaker 3: like both of her parents were scientists and starting sometime
Speaker 3: in her childhood. I think she was like four years old.
Speaker 3: She was living in Baltimore because both of her parents
Speaker 3: were working at Johns Hopkins, and according to her bio
Speaker 3: on IMDb, she studied mathematics at Yale and then went
Speaker 3: to work for a while as like a computer programmer
Speaker 3: at Johns Hopkins. Somehow she got connected with John Waters.
Speaker 3: I don't know if this is a being in Baltimore thing.
Speaker 3: I guess in you know, there's always a chance you'll
Speaker 3: stumble into a marilynd Nest of John Waters's. Somehow she did. However,
Speaker 3: they got connected. Tala ended up working with the John
Speaker 3: Waters crew, and so she also worked with John Waters
Speaker 3: associates like Divine as a production assistant on Polyester and
Speaker 3: then on movies like Hairspray and cry Baby. At some point,
Speaker 3: John Waters was the officiant at Talalay's wedding, which is
Speaker 3: an amazing honor.
Speaker 2: That's a good get.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah. And then from there she ended up working
Speaker 3: on the production of a number of the Nightmare on
Speaker 3: ELM Street movies for New Line Cinema. So I think
Speaker 3: the way it worked. I watching an interview with Talay
Speaker 3: that she did for Netflix, recently, and she started in
Speaker 3: the first night Mare on ELM Street movie as a
Speaker 3: location manager, and then in the subsequent films she just
Speaker 3: kept working her way up. She was production manager, then
Speaker 3: line producer, then producer, and then eventually by Freddy six
Speaker 3: she was like, well, I'm going to direct and she did.
Speaker 2: Oh wow.
Speaker 3: But also in this interview, she talks about how when
Speaker 3: she was a kid, she was obsessed with movies, like
Speaker 3: she wanted to tap dance along with fred Astaire, but
Speaker 3: she realized she couldn't tap dance. She wanted to sing
Speaker 3: like Barbara streisand she wanted to be like in the
Speaker 3: way we were, but she couldn't sing. But movies provided
Speaker 3: this fantasy framework in which she could imagine living out
Speaker 3: the things she wanted to do, and so she got
Speaker 3: very into the idea of working in the movies. And
Speaker 3: apparently her her parents strongly encouraged her and I guess
Speaker 3: all of their children to go into the sciences, like
Speaker 3: they bought them microscopes and wanted them to go to
Speaker 3: university and all that, and she says she very much
Speaker 3: rebelled against this kind of encouragement. She wanted to push
Speaker 3: off into the arts and while the arts were her passion.
Speaker 3: Her parents actually did convince her to go to college,
Speaker 3: so she, like I said, she majored in math. I
Speaker 3: think they expected she would end up working for IBM
Speaker 3: or have some kind of tech career. But after she
Speaker 3: completed her education and worked in Cytech for a bit,
Speaker 3: she migrated to these passion projects, which at the time
Speaker 3: wore low budget horror films. And she talks about how
Speaker 3: her parents were not huge fans of these movies.
Speaker 2: But that's great that she has the like the mathematical
Speaker 2: and programming background going into this film, yeah.
Speaker 3: Which is hilarious, which makes me think, Okay, so Rachel
Speaker 3: Talalay understood how computers work. Now, I was like, she
Speaker 3: didn't write the script for this movie. So yeah, that
Speaker 3: is a lot of the really off the wall stuff
Speaker 3: about how the computers and the electrical grid and everything work.
Speaker 3: You know, that's not out of her brain, but at
Speaker 3: least she seems comfortable with it. So I'd say that
Speaker 3: this is a narrative convenience. And you know, another thing
Speaker 3: about her movies is that you never get the sense
Speaker 3: that she's taking anything too seriously, Like she wouldn't necessarily
Speaker 3: get hung up on plausibility, questions about how the technology works.
Speaker 3: I feel more like her style is very much in
Speaker 3: the flare.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, certainly like this is This is a
Speaker 2: movie that, yeah, has some dumbness to it, but but
Speaker 2: it has a lot of style to it. Some of
Speaker 2: the style, I don't know. You might you might have
Speaker 2: needed to be a television viewer in the nineties to
Speaker 2: get it all and to feel, you know, a sense
Speaker 2: of nostalgia for it. But it's it's evident.
Speaker 3: Now. As for the cast, You've got some great luminaries here.
Speaker 3: The main character in this movie, Terry Monroe, is played
Speaker 3: by Karen Allen, and hey, what's not to love about
Speaker 3: Karen Allen? She's always great. She's I would say she's
Speaker 3: great in this But her character, the way it's written
Speaker 3: is basically Kathy from the comic strip. She's just like computers,
Speaker 3: computers act.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I was instantly the scene where she goes into
Speaker 2: a computer store. I was instantly reminded of the Everything
Speaker 2: is Terrible video Woman versus Computer. Have you seen this?
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're It's some kind of early nineties training video
Speaker 3: that's about like, why can't why are computers so hard
Speaker 3: for women to understand.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so she kind of embodies this kind of
Speaker 2: attitude in this.
Speaker 3: Was that a thing even back then? Did people actually
Speaker 3: think that?
Speaker 2: I mean, they made that video. I'm to assume that
Speaker 2: was kind of the vibe that at least some people
Speaker 2: thought and thought and decided to market things around it.
Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, I mean that's basically her character in this.
Speaker 2: But I mean she's still Karen Allen. She's always going
Speaker 2: to be Mary and Raven Wood from Raided to the
Speaker 2: Lost Arc, So she's she's kind of untouchable in my book.
Speaker 2: You know, this doesn't doesn't take anything away from her.
Speaker 3: She's an oddly ground presence because this movie is both
Speaker 3: tonally and conceptually absolutely bonkers, Like it is full of
Speaker 3: like bad taste and just exceeding weirdness, but the down
Speaker 3: to earth charm of Karen Allen somehow makes it seem
Speaker 3: less off the wall than it would otherwise.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, she's totally believable as this working mom who's,
Speaker 2: you know, just trying to keep it together between work
Speaker 2: and this kid who will get to in a bit,
Speaker 2: oh I can't. And then of course other worldly hackers
Speaker 2: messing with their life on top of everything.
Speaker 3: Right, and then you've got another character who's played by
Speaker 3: this guy, Chris Mulky. He plays a hacker, a good
Speaker 3: hacker named Bram Walker. They just had to name him Brahm.
Speaker 3: I don't know something about that. It's very funny. But
Speaker 3: Chris Mulky is like, he's like sinister Bill Murray. Do
Speaker 3: you need Bill Murray? But less funny and more possibly
Speaker 3: of a criminal element. Here's your guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he looks kind of like Bill Murray, but he
Speaker 2: has straight up has Alec Baldwin's voice. Like a few
Speaker 2: times I looked away from the screen I heard his
Speaker 2: voice and I thought it was Jack Donagy from thirty Rock.
Speaker 2: You know, he has such that same gravelly voice.
Speaker 3: Oh that's exactly right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's an actor who, especially in this film, but
Speaker 2: I think in general he tends to have that overpowering
Speaker 2: divorced cop vibe to him. So he plays that sort
Speaker 2: of character a lot. Yeah, but he's been in a
Speaker 2: ton of stuff, like lots of stuff that is not
Speaker 2: even worth mentionings just you know, a very full professional
Speaker 2: resume of work on TV and film. He was in
Speaker 2: Twin Peaks, and more to the point, he was in Dreamscape,
Speaker 2: which is a wonderful film and that we'll have to
Speaker 2: think about doing someday, as well as Runaway, the nineteen
Speaker 2: eighty four Michael Crichton Tiny Robot Movies starring Tom Sellick,
Speaker 2: Cynthia Rhodes, Gene Simmons, and Christia Halley.
Speaker 3: I do not know anything about this movie. I don't
Speaker 3: think I even knew this existed, so well, we should
Speaker 3: revisit that. But I was thinking about how in Twin
Speaker 3: Peaks they bring in Chris Smulk as a Level three
Speaker 3: bad guy, because you know how in the first season
Speaker 3: of Twin Peaks there's this constant escalation of like some
Speaker 3: guy you think is a really scary guy, but then
Speaker 3: there's another guy that he's even scared of. And so
Speaker 3: I don't remember the other characters' names, but like the
Speaker 3: really bad ponytail guy is afraid of off brand Bill Murray.
Speaker 2: We'll have to take your word for it, because you know,
Speaker 2: I haven't actually sat down and watched Twin Peaks yet.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, Oh okay, it's on the list. It's just
Speaker 2: hard to make time for it. I want to watch it,
Speaker 2: but I don't know. That seems like a lot of show.
Speaker 3: So there's a cameo in this movie by the guy
Speaker 3: who plays Toby Ziegler on the West Wing. Richard Schiff
Speaker 3: is the actor's name, and in this movie he plays
Speaker 3: an MRI technician whose voice gets featured in the credits.
Speaker 3: So you might have heard it just a minute ago
Speaker 3: because he's actually operating the machinery in the movies Pivotal,
Speaker 3: She's Gonna Blow scene.
Speaker 2: Hah, Yeah, I looked him up. He was also in
Speaker 2: Tank Girl, so oh, okay, I'm not sure what the
Speaker 2: exact connection there was, but he's in both of those
Speaker 2: films and did parts.
Speaker 3: A repeat talaa player.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: But this movie, so we mentioned Tallay didn't write it.
Speaker 3: It was written by two bills, William Davies and William Osborne.
Speaker 3: And so you looked at these guys up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, these are the guys who wrote Twins and
Speaker 2: Stop or My Mom Will Shoot.
Speaker 3: Stop or my Mom Will Shoot yep.
Speaker 2: And then Osbourne went on to write The Scorpion King,
Speaker 2: and Davies went on to write the screenplay for How
Speaker 2: to Train Your Dragon and in various other projects. I
Speaker 2: think he recently was the writer on a TV series
Speaker 2: titled A Letter to the King, which I think my
Speaker 2: wife was watching and said was quite good. So, yeah,
Speaker 2: these are accomplished screenplay writers here.
Speaker 3: Interesting. Now, this movie has original music by somebody named
Speaker 3: Graham Revel, and when I saw his name in the
Speaker 3: opening credits, I knew I recognized it from somewhere. And
Speaker 3: it took me a minute, but I figured out where.
Speaker 3: Actually Revel has done tons of movie scores, including in
Speaker 3: this One's for you Rob movies. Apparently he's a repeat
Speaker 3: collaborator with Riddick director David Toohey. But I realized that
Speaker 3: where I knew his name from was back when I
Speaker 3: used to listen to the original motion picture soundtrack of
Speaker 3: The Crow, which now this is kind of confusing because
Speaker 3: I think he did the original score that appeared in
Speaker 3: The Crow, and most of the music on that soundtrack
Speaker 3: is like pop music. It's got Burned by the Cure,
Speaker 3: which is fantastic, but it's also got nine inch nails,
Speaker 3: Jesus and Mary chain. It is. It is music to
Speaker 3: resent your parents, to love you mom and dad, nothing,
Speaker 3: no hard feelings.
Speaker 2: No no I feel you on that. I definitely had
Speaker 2: had this soundtrack as well. My wife had it. We
Speaker 2: sometimes talk about it because what will happen is will
Speaker 2: be like, oh, man, what are we going to listen
Speaker 2: to on this drive. Let's put the Cure soundtrack on.
Speaker 2: Let's that was a great, great soundtrack, and I think
Speaker 2: when you dip back into it, you tend to find
Speaker 2: that was a soundtrack that had one or two songs
Speaker 2: that I really liked back in the nineties. But yeah,
Speaker 2: it does have some good tracks on it, and certainly
Speaker 2: at the time it was, it was a really solid
Speaker 2: soundtrack album.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, definitely that Cure song, it's like the
Speaker 3: first track on it is amazing. Then you get into
Speaker 3: like some Rallins band stuff that you know you could
Speaker 3: take release.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I love that Rollin band song Oh okay,
Speaker 2: ghost Rider. I think it was called yeah.
Speaker 3: Oh okay. So that's the highlight for you.
Speaker 2: Well, it was one of the highlight I liked it.
Speaker 2: I liked it back in the day. I don't really
Speaker 2: like it's not in regular rotation these days.
Speaker 3: But so he does the original music for this movie,
Speaker 3: and it's it's funny because the music that plays in
Speaker 3: the opening credits very much makes me think this is
Speaker 3: vapor Wave of twenty five years ahead of its time,
Speaker 3: which is weird because you could just say that this
Speaker 3: is what vapor Wave is supposed to be, a copy
Speaker 3: or a satire on. But then again, I feel like
Speaker 3: a very important feature of vapor Wave is that it's
Speaker 3: a photo copy of some thing that never exactly existed
Speaker 3: in the first place. So this movie in some ways
Speaker 3: has aspects of a missing original.
Speaker 2: Really, you got a vapor Way vibe from the soundtrack
Speaker 2: to this movie.
Speaker 3: The opening credits music, yeah, a little bit. Oh, okay,
Speaker 3: this is very you remember them when the terminator font
Speaker 3: is showing all the names and it's very chill.
Speaker 2: Now, I have to say that the music in this film,
Speaker 2: it's as if it didn't exist. It was just so
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm sure it was fine, and maybe I
Speaker 2: was just distracted when I first heard it put it on,
Speaker 2: But yeah, this is one of those scores that is
Speaker 2: perfectly competent, but I barely thought about it, you know,
Speaker 2: it was like purely functional for me.
Speaker 3: Okay, Well, let's round out the cast before we get
Speaker 3: into the plot.
Speaker 2: So wait, so you have a you have another note
Speaker 2: in here. We have to touch on about the Revel.
Speaker 3: Oh, Revel is sometimes a collaborator with the guy I
Speaker 3: can't remember his real name, but Lust Mord see.
Speaker 2: Now this surprises me because because again this is such
Speaker 2: a forgettable soundtrack, I mean, such a forgetable score. And
Speaker 2: the idea that he also works with lust Mord, I
Speaker 2: mean that that reveals there's you know, a there's a
Speaker 2: lot more depth to revel here. But also yeah, that's
Speaker 2: a start contrast. Like if les Mord had done the
Speaker 2: soundtrack for this film, I'd probably be raving about it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so this movie, Yeah, well I do want to
Speaker 3: call out, like I'm not singling out. The original score
Speaker 3: for this film is all that notable, except in the
Speaker 3: opening credits where it sounds like vaporwave.
Speaker 2: But I'm gonna have to revisit it. I may have
Speaker 2: I may have been distracted.
Speaker 3: Maybe I'm losing my mind. Who knows. Jessica Walters in
Speaker 3: this movie. We should have mentioned that earlier. Lucille Bluth,
Speaker 3: the matriarch of Arrested Development.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she basically plays Lucille Bluth in this as well.
Speaker 2: Just it's a part. It seems written for her. It
Speaker 2: plays to her strength. She's kind of she's she's Karen
Speaker 2: Allen's fussy mother, and she's doing things like like buying
Speaker 2: proper khaki pants for the teenager.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she's like a human glass of prosecco. She's just
Speaker 3: constantly she's turning her nose up at everything so hard
Speaker 3: that her neck's gonna break.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, she's not in this much, but she's great
Speaker 2: in the scenes that she's in, for sure.
Speaker 3: But then we should get to the real I think
Speaker 3: the star of this cast, which is which, which is
Speaker 3: the child of Karen Allen in this movie, who is
Speaker 3: straight out of a game Boy commercial. He's like skateboard backwards, hat,
Speaker 3: flannel shirt tied around the waist, early nineties adults perception
Speaker 3: of what a cool kid is like. And he is
Speaker 3: totally radical.
Speaker 2: Yes, he is poochy in human form. He's wearing all
Speaker 2: the he's wearing all the poochy clothes. Like you say,
Speaker 2: he's cool to the max. He's he's talking crap to
Speaker 2: his mom. He's too cool for his mom. Let His
Speaker 2: loves include creeping on the teen neighborhood girl who's also
Speaker 2: like a babysitter, and then all so he loves nineties
Speaker 2: hip hop, and actually he seems to have a really
Speaker 2: good taste in nineties hip hop, Like if you just
Speaker 2: look at the songs featured in this movie, you're like, oh, man,
Speaker 2: this has a great soundtrack. Well, it's just incidental music
Speaker 2: every time you go into Kid Pooci's room. But he
Speaker 2: also likes softcore robot video games. There's one really cringey
Speaker 2: scene he's powering that up.
Speaker 3: God, that was hard to watch.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there are a few scenes featuring Kid Poochie here
Speaker 2: that do not elect a groan I have to say.
Speaker 2: I mean, he's fine as a kid actor and nothing
Speaker 2: against horn f here, but yeah, this kid is just
Speaker 2: straight up poochie. Yeah, and I guess we should also
Speaker 2: point out that the killer in this film, who will
Speaker 2: talk about a bit more as we proceed here, is
Speaker 2: played by an actor named Ted Marko.
Speaker 3: Would you say Markku Markux.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so he he's one of these guys. Look him
Speaker 2: up on IMDb and there's not even a photograph of him.
Speaker 2: But he's done a lot of work and a lot
Speaker 2: of voiceover nar including for episodes of Nova and the
Speaker 2: series called Killer Unknown. And that seems like the perfect
Speaker 2: combination considering this film.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so the movie, the plot really starts with the
Speaker 3: killer here. I guess if we want to get into
Speaker 3: the plot or are you ready?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's good, let's dive right in.
Speaker 3: So of course they're opening credits with what would you
Speaker 3: guess it shows in the opening credits, it's like weird animations,
Speaker 3: ridiculous drawings of circuit boards, and it's playing the music
Speaker 3: that you did not agree was vapor wavesque and is
Speaker 3: showing the names of all the people who worked on
Speaker 3: the movie in the terminator fond like the font that
Speaker 3: scrolls over Ronald Schwarzennigger's eyes when he's looking at the
Speaker 3: world and it's all red. And then it just comes
Speaker 3: up on the killer parking his car outside a house.
Speaker 3: He's this evil murderer and he's eating a pixie stick
Speaker 3: and you see him creeping.
Speaker 2: Basically, Yeah, he's got a trunk full of knives, which
Speaker 2: is pretty impressive. Like, wow, that's quite a kill kit.
Speaker 3: You got there, right, And then we meet our main characters.
Speaker 3: I think we meet Kid Pouchi before we meet Karen Allen. Oh,
Speaker 3: because Poochie is pulling a con. Poochi and his best
Speaker 3: friend are trying to pull a like lotto cyber scam
Speaker 3: on their basketball coach. Yeah, and so he's trying to
Speaker 3: trick his basketball coach into buying a fake lottery ticket
Speaker 3: and that they do some some phone freaking to trick
Speaker 3: him into thinking it's real.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah it was. It was phone freaking, right, yeah,
Speaker 2: which is kind of like the the immediate predecessor to hacking.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So we meet kid Poochie and we meet Karen Allen,
Speaker 3: and then we come back to see the work of
Speaker 3: the Evil Killer. And it's one of those things where
Speaker 3: it it pulls, you know, the camera pans up on
Speaker 3: apple pie and baseball. How wholesome.
Speaker 2: Literally there's a whole apple pie on the counter and
Speaker 2: next to it is a baseball glove that when I
Speaker 2: think a baseball in it, which is it's just a
Speaker 2: superposition of terrible and brilliant. I'm not sure like where
Speaker 2: to go with it, Like it's either incredibly stupid or
Speaker 2: it's just it's just positioned appropriately within the context of
Speaker 2: this film. I can't decide.
Speaker 3: Oh no, I mean I think it's right. I mean
Speaker 3: it's hard to talk about exactly, like what the I
Speaker 3: don't think you could argue this movie is good, Like
Speaker 3: this movie is definitely bad, but it's like the kind
Speaker 3: of bad movie that's made by smart people. It's like
Speaker 3: it has a certain wink, a sparkle in its eye
Speaker 3: about all of the pie and the bases ball and
Speaker 3: then panning over to the murder scene.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 3: But then we go to one of my favorite early scenes,
Speaker 3: which is this is I just want to give so
Speaker 3: many chef kisses. This scene is what these types of
Speaker 3: movies are all about. And it's Karen Allen and Kid
Speaker 3: Poucy are shopping for a gift for Karen Allen's boss
Speaker 3: at a computer store, and so they're trying to buy
Speaker 3: desktop software quote desktop software, and guy the salesman there
Speaker 3: is like showing them how all the desktop software works.
Speaker 3: I think he's trying to sell them on a computer
Speaker 3: program called the Paper Warrior.
Speaker 2: And Karen Allen the whole time is like computers, How
Speaker 2: do computers work? Yeah? I do not like computers.
Speaker 3: Ac act she hates it. But the kid is all
Speaker 3: fascinated because he loves technology, and he's like, oh, he
Speaker 3: walks up to there's a guy in the computer store
Speaker 3: repairing a bunch of technology, and the kid goes up
Speaker 3: and wants to touch it. And then the guy doing
Speaker 3: the repairs is all creepy, and then you get your
Speaker 3: first indication like could this be the murderer we saw earlier,
Speaker 3: and of course the murderer works at the computer store.
Speaker 2: It's absolutely the murderer.
Speaker 3: But the guy's like demonstrating this handheld scanner that scans
Speaker 3: address books into the computer in nineteen ninety three, I
Speaker 3: don't know about that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, then this would be key because we find out
Speaker 2: a little later this is the address book killer. This
Speaker 2: is what he does. Yeah, he like steals address books,
Speaker 2: scans address books, and kills people based on their addresses
Speaker 2: in the address book. Is that right?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I think so. It's just like he goes down
Speaker 3: the page in the address books and kills everybody in there.
Speaker 2: Yeah. It's like somebody saw Terminator and somebody saw Manhunter,
Speaker 2: and they kind of very loosely combined the villains of
Speaker 2: both into one being here.
Speaker 3: Right, And then next we're going to meet off brand
Speaker 3: Bill Murray. So we cut away to Bill Murray arriving
Speaker 3: at a company called data Net. And that's another thing
Speaker 3: I love about these movies is the names of the
Speaker 3: companies where, you know, the computer companies and networks and systems.
Speaker 3: Could have been Cystech, could have been data Net, could
Speaker 3: have been cyber Net, could have been oh wait, that's
Speaker 3: actually from a movie.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's terminator, right.
Speaker 3: But Bill Murray shows up and he is wet, he's
Speaker 3: been like rained on and he's like, hey, I'm here
Speaker 3: for the job. And there's this guy who's I guess
Speaker 3: his boss now and is just is like you thought
Speaker 3: you were so smart. And we find out that this
Speaker 3: Bill Bill Murray character, his character's name is Bram Walker,
Speaker 3: and he's like a former Robin Hood hacker of some kind.
Speaker 3: What was the deal that we find out he did.
Speaker 2: He did some sort of a hack on the I
Speaker 2: R S. So you know, he was technically a criminal,
Speaker 2: but he was going after the bad guy. So and
Speaker 2: now he's turned like full white hat hacker.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and this scene's just full of stuff. The boss
Speaker 3: is like openly saying like you used to think you
Speaker 3: were so smart, Well now I'm your boss.
Speaker 2: I believe this is also the scene where one of
Speaker 2: the characters refers to something as being controversial or as
Speaker 2: hated quote as Howard Stern, which is nicely cements it
Speaker 2: in the time.
Speaker 3: I think they're talking about junk mail, like this company
Speaker 3: is like this company like basically spams people's paper mailboxes. Okay,
Speaker 3: I'm not sure why they're called data net if they do.
Speaker 3: But they've got a bunch of computers too. Maybe they
Speaker 3: need the most high powered computers in the world in
Speaker 3: order to spam people's mailboxes.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, because that's the thing. They have some crazy
Speaker 2: advanced computers here.
Speaker 3: So some stuff. We meet, some more characters, We meet
Speaker 3: Lucille Bluth. But then the next big thing that happens
Speaker 3: is that the killer is on his way to do something.
Speaker 3: Is he coming to murder Karen Allen? For some reason,
Speaker 3: I think that's implied that he's like going to her house.
Speaker 2: I think so, yeah, he's he's on the way.
Speaker 3: But on the way we sort of get a disx Mackina.
Speaker 3: You know, this movie is called Ghost in the Machine,
Speaker 3: but it features several god out of the machines. He
Speaker 3: gets into a car crash and he's like, he rolls
Speaker 3: down a hill and he smashes through a graveyard and
Speaker 3: it's one of those great things where the killer's like,
Speaker 3: you know, he's crashing his car and he's laughing the
Speaker 3: whole time to show how twisted he really is.
Speaker 2: It's like, yay death.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And this is funny because this ties into a
Speaker 3: real thing. There's a part where he smashes through a
Speaker 3: graveyard and like knocks over a bunch of headstones, which
Speaker 3: is something that I saw happen firsthand in reality one time.
Speaker 3: Oh really, yeah, I was out here in town. I
Speaker 3: was out for a walk through one of the local graveyards.
Speaker 3: And I think it was a kid and his mom.
Speaker 3: There were practicing driving, so he must have, you know,
Speaker 3: be a learner's permit or something. And they were in
Speaker 3: one of the driveways of the graveyard and they were
Speaker 3: sitting in the car for a while, and then the
Speaker 3: kid is in the driver's seat. He gradually starts accelerating
Speaker 3: and then just speeds up, goes over the curb, and
Speaker 3: like knocks over like six headstones, and then they come
Speaker 3: to a stop. Everybody was okay, nobody was harmed, but
Speaker 3: they did cause some some graveyard damage, and I remember
Speaker 3: feeling extremely bad and embarrassed for that kid.
Speaker 2: Now, the killer in this does some graveyard damage and
Speaker 2: sustain some grave damage himself, right.
Speaker 3: That's right. So you know, they take him to the hospital.
Speaker 3: He's dying. They put the body in an MRI. Is
Speaker 3: that normally what they do to you when you're like
Speaker 3: on the verge of death is the pagentity.
Speaker 2: He's about to die. Get him in the MRI.
Speaker 3: I don't know, maybe there'd be some reason to do that,
Speaker 3: but they put him in the MRI. And again Richard
Speaker 3: Schiff Toby Ziegler is an MRI technician. And then lightning
Speaker 3: strikes and there's a power surge.
Speaker 2: Yes, and this scene is great because we have a
Speaker 2: convergence of often poorly understood natural phenomena, misunderstood technology, and
Speaker 2: of course the brain itself. So of course lightning can
Speaker 2: make an MRI machine straight up jack your brain and
Speaker 2: upload it not only into the Internet but into the
Speaker 2: electrical grid and everything else.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and this sets up the rest of the movie.
Speaker 3: So the title Ghost in the Machine is completely literal
Speaker 3: the premise of this film, like the title, is also
Speaker 3: the elevator pitch for the movie. It is that there's
Speaker 3: literally a killer's ghost uploaded to an Internet and inside
Speaker 3: all of the machines.
Speaker 2: Now, yeah, and he can do everything. And now he's
Speaker 2: not you know, he can't be everywhere at once. He
Speaker 2: has to travel around through your circuitry and your computers
Speaker 2: from this screen to that screen. But wherever he goes
Speaker 2: he has like full access and can do absolutely whatever.
Speaker 2: He wants even if the is kind of a maximum
Speaker 2: overdrive principle in place here, like even if it's not
Speaker 2: a thing that you could actually hack, you know, like
Speaker 2: you can he can manipulate physical buttons and whatnot. But yeah,
Speaker 2: but it's not a concern for him because he has
Speaker 2: absolute power, right.
Speaker 3: I Like another premise here in the scene is that
Speaker 3: when you die, you turn into a screen saver.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I actually really love these scenes there. There
Speaker 2: are all these flashy scenes of the Killer as an
Speaker 2: MRI GIF of a skull, you know, where it's like
Speaker 2: flowing back and forth. It's pretty cool. Shades of the
Speaker 2: Killer from RoboCop two. What's his name, Cane? Yes, you
Speaker 2: know tom Noon, where if you're digitized, you're just this
Speaker 2: distorted madness, you know. And all of these graphics, not
Speaker 2: only these graphics of the Killer himself, but him moving
Speaker 2: around through various systems. It reminds me a lot of
Speaker 2: the computer graphics that were really popular and cool at
Speaker 2: this time. I'm thinking MTV stuff like Liquid Television, but
Speaker 2: also the Mind's I vhs and possibly DVD series. Did
Speaker 2: you remember seeing ads for these or anything?
Speaker 3: I Mean, they have a look that is very familiar
Speaker 3: to me, but I don't think I ever saw these
Speaker 3: things in particular. They are from a time in which
Speaker 3: there was a lot of stuff, you know, just interstitial
Speaker 3: material on TV and stuff that looked like this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, mind's eye worth looking up if you're into this
Speaker 2: sort of thing. I think most of them have been
Speaker 2: uploaded in full onto YouTube. But it's just a bunch
Speaker 2: of sort of psychedelic and surreal short CGI films of
Speaker 2: the time. And it's anyway, this film reminded me of
Speaker 2: that stuff a lot.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So so here we're set up for the rest
Speaker 3: of the movie where you can probably kind of guess
Speaker 3: what happened, especially if you've ever seen the movie Shocker,
Speaker 3: which was directed by Wes Craven, which there are a
Speaker 3: lot of similarities in the plot here. That's also about
Speaker 3: a killer who gets sucked into the electrical grid and
Speaker 3: just like takes over machines and kills people.
Speaker 2: Which is the better film?
Speaker 3: Ooh? I mean it's funny. They're both bad, they're both
Speaker 3: in bad taste, but they both have their their sort
Speaker 3: of stylistic pleasures. I mean, they're both highly entertaining, fun
Speaker 3: funny bad movies in bad taste.
Speaker 2: Okay, but this one has Karen Allen, so.
Speaker 3: That's true, though, the other one has the guy who
Speaker 3: plays Skinner from The X Files. He's the killer.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, he's pretty great.
Speaker 3: Yeah and he man, he just like eats miles of
Speaker 3: the scenery in that movie.
Speaker 2: He's like, a yeah. Everybody's pretty restrained for the most
Speaker 2: part in this film, except for possibly Kid Poucci.
Speaker 3: I guess Kid Poochy. Yeah, Kid Poochy, Like, oh, so.
Speaker 3: The next thing that happens in the movie is we
Speaker 3: get the Chekhov's gun of the film, which is that
Speaker 3: Kid Poochy has a has a program of some kind
Speaker 3: on a floppy disc, one of the kinds that was
Speaker 3: actually floppy, and Caroen Ellen like sticks it to the
Speaker 3: refrigerator door with a magnet and he and Kid Poochy
Speaker 3: finds this and he whines about it. He's like, ma,
Speaker 3: you wiped out my new program. You never put computer
Speaker 3: discs near a magnet.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that was great. It's like right away, you're like, yep,
Speaker 2: this is how they killed the bag. This is totally it.
Speaker 3: Why would you say that otherwise?
Speaker 2: Like that scene in Jaws where they're like, never shoot
Speaker 2: it at an oxygen tank with a rifle. What's the
Speaker 2: matter with you?
Speaker 3: Tanks are gonna blow up. Why would a movie explain
Speaker 3: how something works like that unless it's gonna be used
Speaker 3: to defeat the killer? Yeah, but so here just from
Speaker 3: here on, just like hijinksinsu Like the killer is in
Speaker 3: the main frame and people are hacking the main frame,
Speaker 3: and I think he starts going down. Karen Allen's digitized
Speaker 3: a dress book because it's been scanned in with the
Speaker 3: scanner and killing everybody in her address book like he
Speaker 3: did when he was alive.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, and the kills in this we'll get into
Speaker 2: some of the details of them. It's basically Final Destination,
Speaker 2: you know, final for Final Destination is this film without
Speaker 2: any of the fun weird stuff, because final destination films
Speaker 2: are all about like what if you put your hand
Speaker 2: into a garbage disposal and then it turned on? Or
Speaker 2: what if accidents happened and they were graphic and fatal,
Speaker 2: And of course in this film, our ghost in the
Speaker 2: machine is engineering those moments.
Speaker 3: Right in Final Destination, just there's this implication of this
Speaker 3: impersonal figure of like death that's making all these things
Speaker 3: happen in this movie. It's literally just a guy's ghost.
Speaker 2: Yeah, which again I have to say final Destination's that's
Speaker 2: bs because the death doesn't even make any fun puns, right, yeah, Lane.
Speaker 3: So then we get Kid Poochie and his friend being
Speaker 3: pervy teens and and then there's a great scene where
Speaker 3: the killer starts like trying to mess with Kid Poochi
Speaker 3: by sending him emails. But in this movie, quote email
Speaker 3: is something where you need to know someone's quote number
Speaker 3: to contact them, and there's like real time typing in chat.
Speaker 3: So it's emailed. You can see what the words appearing
Speaker 3: as they are typed. Okay, yeah, yeah, great and god,
Speaker 3: so there's just this middle section of the movie where
Speaker 3: all this mischief is going on. The killers like messing
Speaker 3: with people and sometimes killing people. I guess before we
Speaker 3: get to the VR scene, there is Oh, there's a
Speaker 3: great scene where Kid Poochy just spills oreos all over
Speaker 3: the place. It's just an oreo nightmare.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, Mom walks in and he's just got oreos
Speaker 2: all over the counter and just eating them off, the
Speaker 2: oreos like an absolute animal. And it's just another one
Speaker 2: of these scenes were like, oh, come on, poor Karen Allen,
Speaker 2: like this kid, he's not the worst, but he's a handful.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And then Bram Walker eventually makes contact with Karen
Speaker 3: Allen's character because I think the premise is that the
Speaker 3: killer has been messing around in data nets computers, and
Speaker 3: he has noticed that the killer is obsessed with Karen Allen.
Speaker 3: So he comes to her house and he's like, all
Speaker 3: this stuff about you keeps coming up in our files
Speaker 3: and her response is like, but I hate computers, Leave
Speaker 3: me alone. I think she has this line where she
Speaker 3: says something like, you give us Tickeatron and bank machines.
Speaker 3: But then we get some kind of big brother. Yeah,
Speaker 3: was Ticketron a real thing? Or is that made up
Speaker 3: for the movie Ticketron?
Speaker 2: It sounds made up. Yeah, I'm happy to be corrected,
Speaker 2: but it really sounds made up.
Speaker 3: But so yeah, then we're in full final destination mode
Speaker 3: and so the killer is just going after people. Now.
Speaker 3: I have to say, unfortunately, this is another movie or
Speaker 3: it didn't pick these on purpose for them to be
Speaker 3: this way. This is another movie like Boggy Creek two
Speaker 3: that does not pass the does the dog die test
Speaker 3: yes or does the dog survive test? Whatever you want
Speaker 3: to call it. This this movie unfortunately does kill a dog.
Speaker 3: It doesn't happen on screen.
Speaker 2: Right, but it happens off screen, and I have to
Speaker 2: say it breaks the dog rule in just absolute style.
Speaker 2: It's just a terrific scene. I'm not a big fan
Speaker 2: of dog deaths in movies either. I'm not a dog person,
Speaker 2: but I'm not crazy for them or anything. But this
Speaker 2: is clearly the best dog death ever in a motion picture.
Speaker 3: First, just like the dog kind of deserves it.
Speaker 2: It's weird, yeah, yeah, like they kind of go Friday
Speaker 2: the Thirteenth on it, where you know, where you imply
Speaker 2: or you show that this particular character is promiscuous and
Speaker 2: therefore somehow deserving of death, which you know, that's a
Speaker 2: whole topic onto itself, but in here it's in dog
Speaker 2: form because we firmly establish that our hero's dog is
Speaker 2: just a perf. Right, because here's what happened. So the
Speaker 2: killer at first, I thought, oh, he wants to get
Speaker 2: rid of the dog, so, you know, because the dog
Speaker 2: is the first line at the fence. But then I
Speaker 2: realized he probably just wants to kill the dog just
Speaker 2: because he's going down the list right right. So what
Speaker 2: he does is he, you know, he jacks into the
Speaker 2: house and he turns on the TV in the house
Speaker 2: and turns it to a channel that is like an
Speaker 2: all dog channel, and so the actual dog in the
Speaker 2: house is like, oh, I've got to watch this, runs
Speaker 2: into the living room and it's so excited by this
Speaker 2: the footage of another dog that he starts humping the
Speaker 2: coffee table. Yeah. And then I'm trying to remember what
Speaker 2: happens is there's something where he makes something else fly
Speaker 2: at the dog's head.
Speaker 3: Yeah, something like that, like a phone or so. Somehow
Speaker 3: we end up outside in the backyard.
Speaker 2: Yeah, startles the horny dog outside by the pool, Okay,
Speaker 2: and then there's ominous music cutaway when we find out
Speaker 2: later somehow he further got the dog into the pool
Speaker 2: and then managed to turn on the automated cover for
Speaker 2: the pool, which is not a hard cover. This is
Speaker 2: not like one of those James Bond films where it's
Speaker 2: like a metal cover that goes over the top of it.
Speaker 2: These are just like a tarp Yeah, it's not like Thunderball.
Speaker 2: This is just a tarp on like automated wheels. Somehow
Speaker 2: that traps the dog in there, and the dog drowns.
Speaker 3: I think there's the implication that the killer may have
Speaker 3: also used the automatic snaking pool cleaner robot to kill
Speaker 3: the dog.
Speaker 2: Yes, that's right. It's it's not perfectly executed, but we
Speaker 2: see shades of this when Kid Puci goes in to
Speaker 2: rescue the dog and he gets wrapped up in the
Speaker 2: pool cleaning robot and the cover starts closing, and it's
Speaker 2: just great because the music is ratcheting up. It's implying
Speaker 2: if he gets stuck in here, he will drown, he'll
Speaker 2: be doomed, when again, this is just a tarp, like
Speaker 2: there's nothing. Why don't you going to be sealed in
Speaker 2: It's not even like it's not even all the way
Speaker 2: you know, close to the water, like there's room to
Speaker 2: breathe in there. So it's a wonderful, ridiculous scene.
Speaker 3: Why would you make a pool cover like that, the
Speaker 3: mechanized rollers that automatically cover it up as bizarre. Yeah,
Speaker 3: there is also a big VR scene, actually the VR
Speaker 3: scene I think happens right before this, where the kid
Speaker 3: and his buddies are playing a virtual reality video game
Speaker 3: at the mall like you do, and the killer somehow
Speaker 3: gets into there and freaks them out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's that's pretty fun too, and has some
Speaker 2: nice nice These are some of the cheesier graphics, but
Speaker 2: they do fit within the context of the time.
Speaker 3: I would say as far as the like the attacks
Speaker 3: by the Killer Go, I think my favorite is when
Speaker 3: it attacks Karen Allen's boyfriend who is working at a
Speaker 3: crash test simulator, which so it's just this like warehouse
Speaker 3: of peril. It's a perfect setup for a Final Destination
Speaker 3: style scene.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, where they're doing crash test stuff.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he keeps the guy. It's they really I
Speaker 3: will say the scene is funny, especially when it concludes,
Speaker 3: but it it goes on so long, like they really
Speaker 3: drag it out. He's just like, let's have him put
Speaker 3: his head under the tire. Now he'll put his body
Speaker 3: under this thing. They just put him in peril again
Speaker 3: and again and again, and then by the time it
Speaker 3: ends you are not expecting what happens, which is the
Speaker 3: he gets killed by an automatic hand dryer in a bathroom.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's it's pretty great. They're clearly playing that
Speaker 2: one up for laughs. They also have a scene where
Speaker 2: they're like, will that the young child be boiled or
Speaker 2: scalded by boiling water or somehow hurt by an oven
Speaker 2: and they pull the punch on that one, which which
Speaker 2: is good.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't, I don't. I don't think the movie
Speaker 3: ever has any young children getting well, like the babysitter
Speaker 3: gets killed by a dishwasher.
Speaker 2: Right, that that does happen. But but yeah, for the
Speaker 2: most part, keep it tasteful. Probably they don't No, well,
Speaker 2: I mean they well, they kill the dog and they
Speaker 2: don't kill out people. They don't kill the young child. Okay,
Speaker 2: they don't kill the young child. They don't cross that line.
Speaker 2: Other lines are crossed, but not that one. The microwave
Speaker 2: scene is a great kill.
Speaker 3: That one is pretty amazing. So there is a guy
Speaker 3: who gets cooked by his microwave oven from across the room.
Speaker 3: I think I have a brief monster science diversion. I
Speaker 3: don't think that's very plausible. I mean, not like that
Speaker 3: that's what they really had in mind, that these deaths
Speaker 3: are plausible. I mean, I don't think the hand dryer
Speaker 3: is plausible either. But if a microwave were to even
Speaker 3: like have all of its safety features disabled and end
Speaker 3: up just blasting microwave radiation directly into the kitchen with you,
Speaker 3: I think it could burn you if you're really close,
Speaker 3: but electromagnetic radiation spreads out according to the inverse square loss,
Speaker 3: if you're like across the room from it, I think
Speaker 3: you're probably out of danger unless you're there for a
Speaker 3: long time. Instead, it just shows it like instantly boiling
Speaker 3: this guy from all the way across the room.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a gross scene. They do a good job
Speaker 2: with it, but yeah, it just turns the microwaves is
Speaker 2: cracked open, and it turns the whole room into a microwave.
Speaker 2: Which you know, we did an Invention episode, maybe a
Speaker 2: pair of episodes you can't recall, on the microwave oven.
Speaker 2: And I think we briefly touched on ridiculous microwave kill
Speaker 2: scenes in horror movies. We might have even mentioned this
Speaker 2: film even though we neither of us had seen it
Speaker 2: yet at that point. Huh, But yeah, you see it.
Speaker 2: You see this from time to time, the idea that
Speaker 2: the microwave can do crazy things.
Speaker 3: Now, of course, the final part of the movie involves
Speaker 3: the heroes like Karen Allen and Bram what's his name
Speaker 3: Bram Walker setting a trap for the killer that I
Speaker 3: think I don't remember if it originally in Their plan
Speaker 3: involves a magnet, but ends up involving a giant electromagnet.
Speaker 3: And I gotta say this is a narrative device that
Speaker 3: I really like. When the heroes are faced with an
Speaker 3: unstoppable killing machine, they have to set up a trap
Speaker 3: for it. It's in Predator, It's in It Follows, It's
Speaker 3: in tons of movies that are a lot of fun.
Speaker 3: I'm not sure why I like that device so much,
Speaker 3: but I feel like it's a good way to conclude
Speaker 3: a movie of this type.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it tends to work pretty well, and it's
Speaker 2: I guess it's pretty fun ending for the film. Like basically,
Speaker 2: he's somehow that the killer assumes physical form. I think
Speaker 2: he's what they're like little old nanobots or something. It
Speaker 2: becomes a cloud of nanobots and keeps trying to pour
Speaker 2: himself into the eyeballs of his victims without leaving a
Speaker 2: scratch on them. He kind of comes off as a
Speaker 2: low rent T one thousand in these scenes. Yes, and
Speaker 2: it also reminds me a bit of the nineteen ninety
Speaker 2: five cyber movie Virtuosity, in which Denzel Washington has to
Speaker 2: fight the Ultimate serial killer Sid six point seven, who's
Speaker 2: a simulation AI that's supposed to be a composite of
Speaker 2: all the worst killers in history, which of course breaks
Speaker 2: out by somehow I think printing himself as a silicon
Speaker 2: based life form or something like that. Is it Russell
Speaker 2: Crowe or somebody like it is? Oh, it's young Russell crow.
Speaker 2: It's like Russell Crowe right as he was exploding.
Speaker 3: Uh huh. We should maybe come back and look at
Speaker 3: that movie again. Sometimes that's a good ninety cyber panic movie.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I remember it being a lot of fun.
Speaker 3: So I've actually got a deep thoughts segment for this episode.
Speaker 3: A Ghost in the Machine got me thinking about a
Speaker 3: number of things, which is that One thing, like I said,
Speaker 3: that's funny about this movie is that it takes a
Speaker 3: phrase from the philosophy of mind ghost in the Machine,
Speaker 3: which I'll explain in just a minute, and it makes
Speaker 3: it totally literal. Like I didn't even realize that until
Speaker 3: after I watched the movie and we were talking about it,
Speaker 3: that the title is just a statement of exactly what
Speaker 3: happens in the plot. There's a ghost inside the machines.
Speaker 3: The microwave is haunted. But the phrase ghost in the
Speaker 3: machine is usually attributed to the twentieth century British philosopher
Speaker 3: Gilbert Ryle, who used this phrase to describe ib A.
Speaker 3: Kart's concept of mind body dualism, also known as Cartesian dualism,
Speaker 3: which is the belief that the mind, like your ability
Speaker 3: to think consciously, is a non physical substance, and that
Speaker 3: the mind and the body are distinct and can be
Speaker 3: separated from one another. And Ryle was a philosopher who
Speaker 3: lectured at Oxford. He used the phrase ghost in the
Speaker 3: Machine in a nineteen forty nine book called The Concept
Speaker 3: of Mind, which was very influential for a while. It
Speaker 3: was an attack on this idea and an attack on
Speaker 3: the validity of mind body dualism. For Ryle, pretty much
Speaker 3: every time he says ghost in the machine in the book,
Speaker 3: it is preceded by the phrase like the myth of
Speaker 3: or the dogma of so ghost in the machine for
Speaker 3: him is a confusion, a confusion that arises from problems
Speaker 3: in thinking about what the mind is. And Rale basically
Speaker 3: argues in this book, I want to be clear, I
Speaker 3: haven't read it, but I was reading about it. I
Speaker 3: was reading some summaries and reading and passages from it,
Speaker 3: and it seems like the core of his argument is
Speaker 3: that he thinks mind body dualism is an unnecessary confusion
Speaker 3: that's created by unclear use of language and really not
Speaker 3: understanding what we're talking about when we use words like mind.
Speaker 3: Raul's argument was that thinking of the mind and the
Speaker 3: body as two separate things is wrong in the sense
Speaker 3: that it conceives of them as two distinct things in
Speaker 3: the same category, i e. The mind and the body
Speaker 3: are both objects or both substances. And I think for Ryle,
Speaker 3: saying the mind and the body are two separate things
Speaker 3: is like a gambler saying there are three things in
Speaker 3: my hand. One die, another die, and a pair of dice.
Speaker 3: Those are the three things. So I want to read
Speaker 3: a passage from chapter one of the Concept of Mind
Speaker 3: where he explains this idea a little further. Quote a
Speaker 3: purchaser might say that he bought a left hand glove
Speaker 3: and a right hand glove, but not that he bought
Speaker 3: a left hand glove, a right hand glove, and a
Speaker 3: pair of gloves. Quote. She came home in a flood
Speaker 3: of tears and a sedan chair is a well known
Speaker 3: joke based on the absurdity of conjoining terms of different types.
Speaker 3: It would have been equally ridiculous to construct the disjunction.
Speaker 3: She came home either in a flood of tears or
Speaker 3: else in a sedan chair. And then a little later
Speaker 3: he says, I am not, for example, denying that their
Speaker 3: occur mental processes. Doing long division is a mental process,
Speaker 3: and so is making a joke. But I am saying
Speaker 3: that the phrase their occur mental processes does not mean
Speaker 3: the same sort of thing as their occur physical processes,
Speaker 3: and therefore it makes no sense to conjoin or disjoin
Speaker 3: the two. So I think, for Ryle, when you're thinking
Speaker 3: about minds and bodies, talking about the ghost in the
Speaker 3: machine is like talking about the pair in the two gloves.
Speaker 3: There are actually two gloves. You could say that there
Speaker 3: is actually a pair of gloves. You can say that,
Speaker 3: but the pair is not a thing, not a thing
Speaker 3: that it would make any sense to claim is either
Speaker 3: the same as or different from the gloves. Now, obviously
Speaker 3: Ryle had critics who argued back against him, But I
Speaker 3: do find myself somewhat sympathetic to his point of view,
Speaker 3: and I wonder if Ryle's thinking here would have any
Speaker 3: wisdom to offer the more literal implications of thinking like
Speaker 3: we see in the story concept of ghost in the machine,
Speaker 3: because I want to be clear, like, while we're laughing
Speaker 3: at the concept of ghost in the machine, like there's
Speaker 3: literally you know, the computer is haunted. Somebody's ghost went
Speaker 3: into the electrical grid. In a way, people still think
Speaker 3: like this, Like even very smart people who know a
Speaker 3: lot about brains and computers, there are some of them
Speaker 3: who believe that they will soon be able to upload
Speaker 3: themselves into a computer or have their mind live on
Speaker 3: past the death of their physical body on a machine somehow.
Speaker 3: Now you know, I can't say that I know something
Speaker 3: like that is impossible. But the more I think about
Speaker 3: that idea over the years, the more strange and possibly
Speaker 3: confused it seems to me. And I think if people
Speaker 3: actually believe they can become the ghost in the machine,
Speaker 3: I wonder, is that kind of like saying, well, I
Speaker 3: can preserve my pair of gloves by putting them into
Speaker 3: the safe deposit box. Of course, the gloves themselves will
Speaker 3: be destroyed, they'll be burned, but I'll still have the pair.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I meaneah, I mean I often feel the
Speaker 2: same way about often sometimes very cyberpunky properties that involve
Speaker 2: uploading of consciousness, transfer of consciousness between bodies, and it
Speaker 2: kind of gets into the same territory you get into
Speaker 2: with teleportation in science fiction, where if you think about
Speaker 2: it too hard, you like, this is destruction, Like this
Speaker 2: is every time, you're just destroying yourself every time you
Speaker 2: use that teleporter. Guys. But I don't know, in certain
Speaker 2: property it feels appropriate, right because the idea that humans
Speaker 2: could end up doing something like even religiously doing something
Speaker 2: that is innately destructive or in no way preserves who
Speaker 2: they are, but doing it out of the mistaken idea
Speaker 2: that it does. I mean a lot of the things
Speaker 2: we do for the ego are exactly like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, there you get into some really deep arguments.
Speaker 3: This actually brings up something that I've been wanting to
Speaker 3: talk about on the podcast for a while, which is, oh,
Speaker 3: I forget the philosopher's name who brings this up, So
Speaker 3: I shouldn't get too deep into it now we'll have
Speaker 3: to come back. But basically, it is the problem of
Speaker 3: trying to imagine what future states of yourself would want,
Speaker 3: or imagining desiring changes to yourself. And so one example
Speaker 3: of this is would you like to become a vampire
Speaker 3: and so like you can weigh the pros and cons
Speaker 3: of that, like, Okay, yeah, I could live longer, but
Speaker 3: there might be downsides. But the problem is the version
Speaker 3: of you that would be making the decision about whether
Speaker 3: or not you would like to become a vampire would
Speaker 3: be different once you are the vampire, and you may
Speaker 3: no longer have the same judgments about the pros and
Speaker 3: cons if you were a vampire, because that would necessarily
Speaker 3: entail changes to yourself.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, we should definitely come back and talk about that,
Speaker 2: either as a straight up episode of stuff to blow
Speaker 2: your mind or find a suitably weird vampire movie to
Speaker 2: wrap around it, one or the other.
Speaker 3: But of course that's even more complicated if you can't
Speaker 3: even be guaranteed that there is whatever we think we
Speaker 3: mean when we say the continuation of consciousness.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because again, it's one of those things where you're
Speaker 2: talking about you're can continuing this thing that's happening now,
Speaker 2: and I don't really fully understand the thing that's happening now.
Speaker 2: I'm not even completely awake to some of the illusions
Speaker 2: that are wrapped up in the continuation of myself, as
Speaker 2: I am much less when you start thinking about some
Speaker 2: computerized version of me, some robotic version of me, some
Speaker 2: version of my brain put into another real or engineered body.
Speaker 2: It would be interesting if you had one of these
Speaker 2: films where like Russell Crowe the serial Killer in the
Speaker 2: digital form, like he takes he takes human form, and
Speaker 2: then he becomes a great guy or or our ghost
Speaker 2: in this film, like he becomes one with the Internet
Speaker 2: and just decides to you know, to streamline the power
Speaker 2: grid or something. You know which, because you're still talking
Speaker 2: about such a drastic transformation of self, you know, why
Speaker 2: would you still have the same aims and you know,
Speaker 2: you know, petty vengeances in mind. Yeah, it's like saying, like,
Speaker 2: what if I became an exploding star, would I finally
Speaker 2: get around to watching Twin Peaks? No, I would be
Speaker 2: an exploding star, Like that's probably what I would be
Speaker 2: super into doing is just continue to do to explode.
Speaker 2: I'm beyond Twin Peaks at this point.
Speaker 3: What if you were a screensaver though.
Speaker 2: Then I'd be super into saving screens I guess, or
Speaker 2: I'd be that mouse in the Maize.
Speaker 3: Right, did you have a favorite nineteen ninety screensaver from
Speaker 3: like the After Dark Suite?
Speaker 2: I was just always Starscaped, straight up Starscape. I was like,
Speaker 2: this is amazing. It's like it's it's basically a video
Speaker 2: game from my mind, you know, there's not much going
Speaker 2: on except you are traveling through space, and that alone
Speaker 2: felt like a revolution.
Speaker 3: I was a fan of that one too. It's one
Speaker 3: of the simplest ones, but I always thought it was
Speaker 3: really good.
Speaker 2: I need to put one back on my machine. It's
Speaker 2: not like a default option anymore. You got to engineer it,
Speaker 2: which is a shame. Come on, Apple, Well now these
Speaker 2: screens just turn off? I mean, what's that all about.
Speaker 2: Oh god, that's a great moment in this film where
Speaker 2: she comes in and she gets onto the team and
Speaker 2: she's like she's like, oh and turn off this computer.
Speaker 2: Electricity is not free, you know. Oh yeah, which I
Speaker 2: love that. It's like this such a foreign concept today
Speaker 2: for so many I was turn off the computer? You
Speaker 2: mean turn it off?
Speaker 3: Are you asking me for my heart to stop beating?
Speaker 3: Are you telling me to turn off my brain?
Speaker 2: All right, well, we're gonna have to close it out there.
Speaker 2: But yeah, this was a fun one. You can find
Speaker 2: this one, I think pretty much anywhere you can rent
Speaker 2: something right now, Look you watch it on Amazon Prime.
Speaker 2: I watched it on whatever. The default rental option is
Speaker 2: in an Xbox. I did that, but I checked, and
Speaker 2: you can also pick this one up cheap on DVD
Speaker 2: if you want to make it a permanent physical part
Speaker 2: of your collection.
Speaker 3: I gotta say, even though, like I said, I don't
Speaker 3: think anyone could make the argument that this is a
Speaker 3: good movie, this is definitely a bad movie. It does
Speaker 3: make me want to watch more Rachel Talay stuff, like
Speaker 3: I want to watch all her Doctor Who episodes. I'm
Speaker 3: gonna go watch tank Girl. I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm one fulship tank Girl myself. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: The talent shines through with this. This is definitely one
Speaker 2: of those where people cared about the product.
Speaker 3: Bpdep BEP deep BBPEP. Hey, folks, we're doing a post
Speaker 3: recording insert because we wanted to tell you about something
Speaker 3: really exciting. Our amazing producer, Seth Nicholas Johnson is launching
Speaker 3: a podcast of his own and I think the first
Speaker 3: episodes are out today. Is that right, Seth?
Speaker 4: That's correct. I'm very excited about it. The show is
Speaker 4: called Record Store Society, and if you listening to this,
Speaker 4: if you consider yourself a music nerd. If you're the
Speaker 4: kind of person that likes to talk about music, hear
Speaker 4: about music, be introduced to new kinds of music. If
Speaker 4: you're the kind of person that likes to frequent your
Speaker 4: local record store, then then this show is literally made
Speaker 4: for you. I mean, in many ways, it's made for
Speaker 4: me because I'm that person, but it's also made for
Speaker 4: you if you are like me. And the basic premise
Speaker 4: of it is myself and my co host Tara Davies,
Speaker 4: we work at a record store and every day our
Speaker 4: customers come and they visit and they are shopping around,
Speaker 4: and we have conversations with them, and you can be
Speaker 4: a fly on the wall. We play games, we mostly
Speaker 4: just talk about music and we have a good time.
Speaker 4: And that's that's more or less.
Speaker 3: It.
Speaker 4: It's wish fulfillment. It's it's escapism in this wild twenty
Speaker 4: twenty world. It's it's for you, you.
Speaker 3: Know, yeah, and just for you stuff to blow your mind. Listener, well,
Speaker 3: who else would be listening for you out there listening.
Speaker 3: It's possible we may ourselves show up guests on the show.
Speaker 3: At some point. I've been told there may be need
Speaker 3: of a Neil Young nerd like me one day in
Speaker 3: the future, So that is the truth.
Speaker 4: We have not recorded it yet, but the goal is
Speaker 4: definitely to have a very Neil Young centric episode with
Speaker 4: Joe and that'll be a lot of fun. Robert, if
Speaker 4: you had to pick, what's your number one music fascination,
Speaker 4: what's the thing you like more than anything?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 2: Man, I mean, that's a tough one because there's there's things,
Speaker 2: there's things I'm fascinated with and things that I would
Speaker 2: definitely be up for talking about. So I don't know.
Speaker 2: I mean maybe maybe I would talk about tool albums.
Speaker 2: I don't know, maybe it would be uh oh. I
Speaker 2: get fascinated by weird stuff too these days, Like I'm
Speaker 2: currently I'm really fascinated by Egypt Domania with recording artists,
Speaker 2: so you know, people like Egyptian Lover the you know,
Speaker 2: the early hip hop artist whose whole deal is that
Speaker 2: he's an actual pharaoh.
Speaker 4: That these are the kind of things we will dive
Speaker 4: into the deepest minutia of if you're a fan. So yeah,
Speaker 4: check out Record Store Society. It's here on the iHeart
Speaker 4: Network and it comes out today. The first two episodes
Speaker 4: are already live, and we have new episodes every Friday,
Speaker 4: make sure you check.
Speaker 3: It out, all right, I'm so excited. Don't miss it, folks.
Speaker 2: All right, well, we're going to close it out there. Obviously,
Speaker 2: we'd love to hear from everybody about this film, about
Speaker 2: some of the other films that we briefly mentioned, other
Speaker 2: cyber panic films, films that you think we should watch
Speaker 2: in the future. Yeah, everything's up for grabs. You have
Speaker 2: some ideas about the deeper thoughts we got into here,
Speaker 2: some of the actors and filmmakers that we mentioned. Either way,
Speaker 2: we'd love to hear from you. In the meantime, if
Speaker 2: you want to check out other episodes of Weird House Cinema,
Speaker 2: this is going to come out every Friday in the
Speaker 2: Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast feed. Tuesdays and Thursdays
Speaker 2: will remain core science and culture episodes of Stuff to
Speaker 2: Blow Your Mind. But Friday Friday is the day where
Speaker 2: we get to celebrate weird films such as this one.
Speaker 3: It is when our souls go online.
Speaker 2: Yes, oh yeah, and of course rate review subscribe all
Speaker 2: that stuff right.
Speaker 3: Huge, Thanks as always to our excellent audio producer Seth
Speaker 3: Nicholas Johnson. If you would like to get in touch
Speaker 3: with us with feedback on this episode or any other,
Speaker 3: to suggest a topic for the future, or just to
Speaker 3: say hi. You can email us at contact A's Stuff
Speaker 3: to Blow Your Mind dot com.
Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For
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