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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey, welcome to Weird House Cinema. My name's Rob Lamb.

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Speaker 3: And I'm Joe McCormick. In Today's the Day. I get

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Speaker 3: to admit that, you know, Rob, sometimes I just want

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Speaker 3: to live in a cyber panic movie from the early nineties.

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Speaker 2: Why is that?

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Speaker 3: Well, there were a lot of movies like these, and

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Speaker 3: something about them is so cool, these movies from like

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Speaker 3: say nineteen eighty nine to nineteen ninety five or so

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Speaker 3: that we're clearly obsessed with the thrilling and terrifying potential

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Speaker 3: of email and the World Wide Web and usually for

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Speaker 3: some reason, virtual reality at the same time. So one

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Speaker 3: of the greats in this genre is Hackers, which came

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Speaker 3: out in Night teen ninety five, full cast of Matthew

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Speaker 3: Lillard's and associated Lillardians all just hacking it up, hacking

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Speaker 3: with joysticks, hacking with video game controllers. They square off

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Speaker 3: against Fisher Stevens in a hacker versus hacker battle. It's

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Speaker 3: absolutely glorious. This is an all time great, worthy of

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Speaker 3: an episode of its own someday.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I never saw this one, but this one, Hackers

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Speaker 2: is like, really, really attractive, cool hacker dudes and chicks

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Speaker 2: battling it out right.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, they're like super punk. And that's a thing that

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Speaker 3: these early nineties movies really like. They're made by adults

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Speaker 3: who don't know how to use email and they're scared

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Speaker 3: of it, but they're writing a movie about it, and

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Speaker 3: so you know, they can't tell the difference between say,

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Speaker 3: like anarco punk subculture and kids who know how to

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Speaker 3: use computers. It all just blends together for them, so

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Speaker 3: like computers and hacking are basically the same as skateboarding

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Speaker 3: and graffiti.

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Speaker 2: And I guess it's probably complicated too by the existence

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Speaker 2: of cyberpunk as a genre that tends to have the

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Speaker 2: punk elements and industrial elements combined with some of these

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Speaker 2: the same cutting edge technological ideas, right.

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Speaker 3: And then, of course, another nineteen ninety five movie was

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Speaker 3: The Net, which had Sandra Bullock. She watched Sandra Bullock

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Speaker 3: get caught in the Net. This is one where the

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Speaker 3: hacker becomes the hacked. Sandra Bullock plays like a computer

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Speaker 3: nerd who is so obsessed with computers she even orders

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Speaker 3: pizza over the internet. Can you imagine. And then it's

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Speaker 3: supposed to like just absolutely melt your mind with this concept.

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Speaker 3: But then somebody hacks her back and a deadly game

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Speaker 3: of hacking cat and mouse, ensus she has to like

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Speaker 3: run around, and you know, there was a common thing.

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Speaker 3: It shows up in the movie We're going to be

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Speaker 3: talking about today as well. There's a common thing in

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Speaker 3: these early nineties cyber panic movies that that, like, by

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Speaker 3: hacking into a computer or an electrical grid, you could

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Speaker 3: always get a full like blueprint schematic of any building

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Speaker 3: and have access to all of the appliances in that

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Speaker 3: building and control over them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just absolute power. And of course, this is

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Speaker 2: the confusing thing about all of this, it is that

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Speaker 2: is that, yes, there there are concerns about hacking, hackers

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Speaker 2: being able to access things like, you know, electrical grid

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Speaker 2: systems and infrastructure and so forth. Like these are not

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Speaker 2: in and of themselves unrealistic concepts, but the ease of

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Speaker 2: access is often way overstated, or it's or certainly it's

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Speaker 2: it's visually presented to the audience in a way that

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Speaker 2: seems to simplify it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and a lot of times it's hard to tell

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Speaker 3: whether the oversimplification that's going on of the computer stuff

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Speaker 3: in these nineties movies, whether that is is just trying

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Speaker 3: to make the story go along more smoothly. You know,

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Speaker 3: they're simplifying it in the same way that you would

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Speaker 3: have you know, technobabble in any other science fiction movie

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Speaker 3: that's massively oversimplified, just to make it clear. Okay, here's

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Speaker 3: what the plot stakes are. Now we can move on.

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Speaker 3: Or whether it's just like people had no idea what

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Speaker 3: they were talking about.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, there's always that element of yeah, they don't

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Speaker 2: really they know it's cutting edge and they know that

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Speaker 2: we should be afraid of it to some extent, but

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Speaker 2: that's it doesn't go a lot deeper than that. But

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Speaker 2: of course the fear is key, I mean, because you're

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Speaker 2: dealing with science fiction. Really in all these cases, even

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Speaker 2: in something like The Net, it is about modern day

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Speaker 2: anxieties and fears over where technology is taking us, and

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Speaker 2: this concern that technology will not just purely reflect the

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Speaker 2: best of us, but will also reflect the worst of us,

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Speaker 2: and the worst of humanity will be tied up in it.

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Speaker 2: And really the movie we're going to look at today

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Speaker 2: is a very literal exploration of the latter theme.

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Speaker 3: Right, So today we're going to be talking about an

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Speaker 3: early ninety cyber panic movie that came before Hackers, before

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Speaker 3: the Net. It is Rachel Talalay's Ghost in the Machine

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Speaker 3: from nineteen ninety.

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Speaker 2: Three, not to be confused with nineteen ninety five's Ghost

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Speaker 2: in the Shell. Mamoru Oshi's anime adaptation of Massive Mooney

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Speaker 2: Shiros nineteen eighty nine manga.

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Speaker 3: Nothing really I've never seen. I know it's quite popular.

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Speaker 3: It's is it also about like people getting their brains

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Speaker 3: in computers?

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Speaker 2: I mean yeah, to the extent that yeah, I mean

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Speaker 2: to a certain extent, but it's like it's total like

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Speaker 2: futuristic cyberpunk anime and really quite good, especially especially the

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Speaker 2: first two films that came out, Ghost in the Shell

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Speaker 2: and Ghost in the Shell too. There's a lot of

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Speaker 2: other stuff out there they did, like a TV series,

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Speaker 2: but yeah, I mean it's it's it's pivotal cyberpunk anime

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Speaker 2: for sure, Okay, but it.

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Speaker 3: Like full on embraces like like deep future thinking about

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Speaker 3: the you know, extreme possibilities. This is not like there's

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Speaker 3: a demon in the ATM, which is probably the speed

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Speaker 3: we're talking about.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, this So this is Ghost in the Machine

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Speaker 2: from nineteen ninety three, which I have to mention is

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Speaker 2: one year after The Lawnmower Man, which of course, is

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Speaker 2: the virtual reality film that is ever so loosely, ever

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Speaker 2: so loosely based on a Stephen Kings short story about

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Speaker 2: a man who eats grass.

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Speaker 3: Could you even say based? I mean, I don't even

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Speaker 3: know what is the same other than the fact that

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Speaker 3: there is a lawnmower in it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, virtually nothing. I feel like there might have even

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Speaker 2: been some thread where they had to like remove King's

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Speaker 2: name from it. I don't know there was a I'm

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Speaker 2: not sure if that's that's true or not, but it

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Speaker 2: was supposedly a Stephen King adaptation, but it was just this,

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Speaker 2: you know, crazy virtual reality cyber escape film.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So I got to give the elevator pitch on

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Speaker 3: Ghost in the Machine, and I was looking at the

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Speaker 3: VHS box art, and I feel like I cannot do

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Speaker 3: any better than the copy on the VHS. So I

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Speaker 3: got to read straight from that. Last night, a serial

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Speaker 3: killer died. His body was laid to rest, but his

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Speaker 3: soul has come online, free to continue his reign of

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Speaker 3: terror by using electronic circuitry. The serial killer's next target

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Speaker 3: is the unsuspecting Terry Monroe. Karen Allen and her teenage son.

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Speaker 3: Their only chance for survival is with the help of

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Speaker 3: a brilliant quote computer hacker. In this suspenseful techno thriller,

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Speaker 3: terror strikes when it's least expected, and the only cure

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Speaker 3: for this virus is to destroy it.

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Speaker 2: All right, Well, well, let's let's go the next step

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Speaker 2: and just have a splash of that audio trailer.

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Speaker 3: Oh. I think it'll probably repeat some of the same

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Speaker 3: words I just said, So ready yourself. This is good

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Speaker 3: to beforing terry.

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Speaker 2: Oh is this I'm.

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Speaker 3: Killing your friends? Looks like there were someone else in

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Speaker 3: there with us.

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Speaker 2: The killer died in this.

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Speaker 3: And it was plugged into your computer. There's no way

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Speaker 3: anyone can kill somebody with a computer ghost in the machine,

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Speaker 3: plug into your worst nightmare. Man. I love that trailer,

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Speaker 3: so so so good. When I was reading about this movie,

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Speaker 3: I hadn't seen it yet, and so I had to.

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Speaker 3: I watched the trailer to see, like, is this gonna

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Speaker 3: be worth watching? And that pulled me in hard.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree. When you sent the trailer to me.

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Speaker 2: When I when I watched it all the way through,

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Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, I think this is going to be it.

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Speaker 2: I think Joe's gonna gonna go for this one once

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Speaker 2: he gives it a test run.

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Speaker 3: So I guess maybe we should start by talking about

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Speaker 3: some of the people of Note, and then we can

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Speaker 3: talk about the plot a little bit and then get

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Speaker 3: into some ideas and connections. And I guess the best

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Speaker 3: place to start is with the director, Rachel Talala, who

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Speaker 3: is the brain behind a number of great Bad Taste classics.

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Speaker 3: For example, Yeah, fred Freddy's Dead, the Final Nightmare. It

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Speaker 3: was not the final one, but it was the sixth one.

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Speaker 3: It came out in nineteen ninety one, and in a minute,

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Speaker 3: I wanted to talk about how she worked her way

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Speaker 3: up to directing that movie. But if you don't remember

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Speaker 3: which one that is, it's the one where Robert England

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Speaker 3: has become a full on, just stand up comedian or

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Speaker 3: maybe more applicably applicably a prop comic. He's like Carrot

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Speaker 3: Top in this movie, just full comedian jokes as he

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Speaker 3: kills people.

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Speaker 2: Like he kills so that he can make puns at

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Speaker 2: this point y right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, I remember this movie also, for some reason,

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Speaker 3: has Tom Arnold and Roseanne Barr, and I think they're

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Speaker 3: just cameos.

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Speaker 2: The only thing I remember about it is that it

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Speaker 2: had a notable or I think it was notable in

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Speaker 2: a goya Avita scene where they're playing iron butterflies in

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Speaker 2: a goya Avita and there's like Freddy's coming out of

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Speaker 2: televi vision or something, or maybe somebody sucked into a

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Speaker 2: television I don't remember.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that sounds right. Another movie she made one that

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Speaker 3: I haven't seen but I really want to see now

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Speaker 3: because reading about it it sounds pretty great. Is tank

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Speaker 3: Girl from nineteen ninety five. This is a sort of

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Speaker 3: post apocalyptic Warrior of the Desert movie.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, now, tank Girl. I remember when it came out,

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Speaker 2: and I remember catching clips of it, either there were

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Speaker 2: just clips on a clip show where maybe I saw

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Speaker 2: part of it on TV, and I remember like really

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Speaker 2: digging it and wanting to see it at the time,

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Speaker 2: because you know, it has all these crazy elements going on,

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Speaker 2: and you got Malcolm mcdowe with some sort of a

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Speaker 2: crazy robot arm.

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Speaker 3: He's like an evil corporate overlord who like's trying to

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Speaker 3: buy up all the water, yeah.

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Speaker 2: In the desert for some reason. You've got I think

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Speaker 2: it's a post apocalyptic like a commets hit the earth

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Speaker 2: or something. You got Iced Tea as a Ripper, which

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Speaker 2: is like a mutant kangaroo person, and then you got

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Speaker 2: Lori Petty as tank Girl, who was just you know,

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Speaker 2: overflowing with manic energy and nineties coolness along with just

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Speaker 2: you know, just a cool aesthetic vibe to it. So

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Speaker 2: I remember, I remember really wanting to see it, and

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Speaker 2: then I didn't see it, and by the time it

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Speaker 2: had become available to watch on VHS or whatever, I

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Speaker 2: had forgotten about it. So I I've never actually seen

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Speaker 2: it all the way through. I think I picked it

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Speaker 2: up a time or two, and the bad taste aspect

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Speaker 2: came into play, Like like you said, some of these

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Speaker 2: films are kind of bad taste films where you know

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Speaker 2: there's maybe some bits of it are a little bit

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Speaker 2: cruder than you think they're going to be, and you

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Speaker 2: just I don't know. In my case, I might have

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Speaker 2: decided previously, like I don't know if I'm in the

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Speaker 2: mood for this right now. I after we finished, after

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Speaker 2: I finished watching Ghost in the Machine, I put Tank

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Speaker 2: Girl back on again because it's as is this recording

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Speaker 2: available on Amazon Prime in the in the United States,

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Speaker 2: and I have to say it's it's I'm enjoying it

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Speaker 2: thus far. There continue to be some of those those

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Speaker 2: bad taste touch points where I'm like, oh, this is

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Speaker 2: kind of a mixed bag, but there are things about

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Speaker 2: it that I like. So we'll see. I'm gonna probably

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Speaker 2: keep watching it.

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Speaker 3: Well, So she's got a new movie out just this

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Speaker 3: year called A Babysitters Guide to Monster Hunting, which I

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Speaker 3: haven't seen, but looking at her resume, it seems like

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Speaker 3: in recent years Taloy mostly directs TV episodes, including episodes

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Speaker 3: of Chilling Adventures of Sabrina, of Sherlock, and of course

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Speaker 3: of Doctor Who, so our beloved Hoovioids out there? Like,

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Speaker 3: what do you think of her episodes? I think they're

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Speaker 3: mostly in the Peter Capaldi seasons.

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Speaker 2: I don't think they're called hoovioids though, I think I think, no,

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Speaker 2: that's it. That's what it is, all right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, she's done a great deal of TV work, though,

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Speaker 2: Like it's just a lot of top tier genre stuff.

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Speaker 2: I know, she did an episode of Doom Patrol, which

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Speaker 2: is a show that I've been enjoying.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Talla has got a pretty interesting career trajectory. So,

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Speaker 3: like both of her parents were scientists and starting sometime

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Speaker 3: in her childhood. I think she was like four years old.

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Speaker 3: She was living in Baltimore because both of her parents

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Speaker 3: were working at Johns Hopkins, and according to her bio

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Speaker 3: on IMDb, she studied mathematics at Yale and then went

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Speaker 3: to work for a while as like a computer programmer

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Speaker 3: at Johns Hopkins. Somehow she got connected with John Waters.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if this is a being in Baltimore thing.

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Speaker 3: I guess in you know, there's always a chance you'll

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Speaker 3: stumble into a marilynd Nest of John Waters's. Somehow she did. However,

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Speaker 3: they got connected. Tala ended up working with the John

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Speaker 3: Waters crew, and so she also worked with John Waters

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Speaker 3: associates like Divine as a production assistant on Polyester and

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Speaker 3: then on movies like Hairspray and cry Baby. At some point,

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Speaker 3: John Waters was the officiant at Talalay's wedding, which is

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Speaker 3: an amazing honor.

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Speaker 2: That's a good get.

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Speaker 3: Yeah yeah. And then from there she ended up working

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Speaker 3: on the production of a number of the Nightmare on

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Speaker 3: ELM Street movies for New Line Cinema. So I think

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Speaker 3: the way it worked. I watching an interview with Talay

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Speaker 3: that she did for Netflix, recently, and she started in

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Speaker 3: the first night Mare on ELM Street movie as a

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Speaker 3: location manager, and then in the subsequent films she just

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Speaker 3: kept working her way up. She was production manager, then

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Speaker 3: line producer, then producer, and then eventually by Freddy six

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Speaker 3: she was like, well, I'm going to direct and she did.

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Speaker 2: Oh wow.

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Speaker 3: But also in this interview, she talks about how when

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Speaker 3: she was a kid, she was obsessed with movies, like

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Speaker 3: she wanted to tap dance along with fred Astaire, but

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Speaker 3: she realized she couldn't tap dance. She wanted to sing

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Speaker 3: like Barbara streisand she wanted to be like in the

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Speaker 3: way we were, but she couldn't sing. But movies provided

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Speaker 3: this fantasy framework in which she could imagine living out

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Speaker 3: the things she wanted to do, and so she got

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Speaker 3: very into the idea of working in the movies. And

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Speaker 3: apparently her her parents strongly encouraged her and I guess

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Speaker 3: all of their children to go into the sciences, like

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Speaker 3: they bought them microscopes and wanted them to go to

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Speaker 3: university and all that, and she says she very much

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Speaker 3: rebelled against this kind of encouragement. She wanted to push

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Speaker 3: off into the arts and while the arts were her passion.

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Speaker 3: Her parents actually did convince her to go to college,

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Speaker 3: so she, like I said, she majored in math. I

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Speaker 3: think they expected she would end up working for IBM

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Speaker 3: or have some kind of tech career. But after she

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Speaker 3: completed her education and worked in Cytech for a bit,

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Speaker 3: she migrated to these passion projects, which at the time

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Speaker 3: wore low budget horror films. And she talks about how

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Speaker 3: her parents were not huge fans of these movies.

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Speaker 2: But that's great that she has the like the mathematical

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Speaker 2: and programming background going into this film, yeah.

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Speaker 3: Which is hilarious, which makes me think, Okay, so Rachel

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Speaker 3: Talalay understood how computers work. Now, I was like, she

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Speaker 3: didn't write the script for this movie. So yeah, that

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Speaker 3: is a lot of the really off the wall stuff

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Speaker 3: about how the computers and the electrical grid and everything work.

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Speaker 3: You know, that's not out of her brain, but at

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Speaker 3: least she seems comfortable with it. So I'd say that

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Speaker 3: this is a narrative convenience. And you know, another thing

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Speaker 3: about her movies is that you never get the sense

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Speaker 3: that she's taking anything too seriously, Like she wouldn't necessarily

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Speaker 3: get hung up on plausibility, questions about how the technology works.

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Speaker 3: I feel more like her style is very much in

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Speaker 3: the flare.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, certainly like this is This is a

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Speaker 2: movie that, yeah, has some dumbness to it, but but

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Speaker 2: it has a lot of style to it. Some of

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Speaker 2: the style, I don't know. You might you might have

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Speaker 2: needed to be a television viewer in the nineties to

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Speaker 2: get it all and to feel, you know, a sense

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Speaker 2: of nostalgia for it. But it's it's evident.

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Speaker 3: Now. As for the cast, You've got some great luminaries here.

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Speaker 3: The main character in this movie, Terry Monroe, is played

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Speaker 3: by Karen Allen, and hey, what's not to love about

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Speaker 3: Karen Allen? She's always great. She's I would say she's

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Speaker 3: great in this But her character, the way it's written

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Speaker 3: is basically Kathy from the comic strip. She's just like computers,

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Speaker 3: computers act.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I was instantly the scene where she goes into

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Speaker 2: a computer store. I was instantly reminded of the Everything

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Speaker 2: is Terrible video Woman versus Computer. Have you seen this?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we're It's some kind of early nineties training video

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Speaker 3: that's about like, why can't why are computers so hard

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Speaker 3: for women to understand.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And so she kind of embodies this kind of

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Speaker 2: attitude in this.

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Speaker 3: Was that a thing even back then? Did people actually

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Speaker 3: think that?

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Speaker 2: I mean, they made that video. I'm to assume that

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Speaker 2: was kind of the vibe that at least some people

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Speaker 2: thought and thought and decided to market things around it.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, I mean that's basically her character in this.

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Speaker 2: But I mean she's still Karen Allen. She's always going

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Speaker 2: to be Mary and Raven Wood from Raided to the

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Speaker 2: Lost Arc, So she's she's kind of untouchable in my book.

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Speaker 2: You know, this doesn't doesn't take anything away from her.

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Speaker 3: She's an oddly ground presence because this movie is both

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Speaker 3: tonally and conceptually absolutely bonkers, Like it is full of

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Speaker 3: like bad taste and just exceeding weirdness, but the down

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Speaker 3: to earth charm of Karen Allen somehow makes it seem

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Speaker 3: less off the wall than it would otherwise.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, she's totally believable as this working mom who's,

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Speaker 2: you know, just trying to keep it together between work

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Speaker 2: and this kid who will get to in a bit,

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Speaker 2: oh I can't. And then of course other worldly hackers

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Speaker 2: messing with their life on top of everything.

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Speaker 3: Right, and then you've got another character who's played by

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Speaker 3: this guy, Chris Mulky. He plays a hacker, a good

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Speaker 3: hacker named Bram Walker. They just had to name him Brahm.

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Speaker 3: I don't know something about that. It's very funny. But

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Speaker 3: Chris Mulky is like, he's like sinister Bill Murray. Do

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Speaker 3: you need Bill Murray? But less funny and more possibly

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Speaker 3: of a criminal element. Here's your guy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he looks kind of like Bill Murray, but he

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Speaker 2: has straight up has Alec Baldwin's voice. Like a few

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Speaker 2: times I looked away from the screen I heard his

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Speaker 2: voice and I thought it was Jack Donagy from thirty Rock.

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Speaker 2: You know, he has such that same gravelly voice.

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Speaker 3: Oh that's exactly right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he's an actor who, especially in this film, but

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Speaker 2: I think in general he tends to have that overpowering

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Speaker 2: divorced cop vibe to him. So he plays that sort

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Speaker 2: of character a lot. Yeah, but he's been in a

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Speaker 2: ton of stuff, like lots of stuff that is not

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Speaker 2: even worth mentionings just you know, a very full professional

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Speaker 2: resume of work on TV and film. He was in

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Speaker 2: Twin Peaks, and more to the point, he was in Dreamscape,

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Speaker 2: which is a wonderful film and that we'll have to

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Speaker 2: think about doing someday, as well as Runaway, the nineteen

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Speaker 2: eighty four Michael Crichton Tiny Robot Movies starring Tom Sellick,

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Speaker 2: Cynthia Rhodes, Gene Simmons, and Christia Halley.

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Speaker 3: I do not know anything about this movie. I don't

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Speaker 3: think I even knew this existed, so well, we should

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Speaker 3: revisit that. But I was thinking about how in Twin

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Speaker 3: Peaks they bring in Chris Smulk as a Level three

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Speaker 3: bad guy, because you know how in the first season

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Speaker 3: of Twin Peaks there's this constant escalation of like some

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Speaker 3: guy you think is a really scary guy, but then

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Speaker 3: there's another guy that he's even scared of. And so

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Speaker 3: I don't remember the other characters' names, but like the

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Speaker 3: really bad ponytail guy is afraid of off brand Bill Murray.

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Speaker 2: We'll have to take your word for it, because you know,

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Speaker 2: I haven't actually sat down and watched Twin Peaks yet.

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Speaker 2: Oh wow, Oh okay, it's on the list. It's just

389
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Speaker 2: hard to make time for it. I want to watch it,

390
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Speaker 2: but I don't know. That seems like a lot of show.

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Speaker 3: So there's a cameo in this movie by the guy

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Speaker 3: who plays Toby Ziegler on the West Wing. Richard Schiff

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Speaker 3: is the actor's name, and in this movie he plays

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Speaker 3: an MRI technician whose voice gets featured in the credits.

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Speaker 3: So you might have heard it just a minute ago

396
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Speaker 3: because he's actually operating the machinery in the movies Pivotal,

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Speaker 3: She's Gonna Blow scene.

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Speaker 2: Hah, Yeah, I looked him up. He was also in

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Speaker 2: Tank Girl, so oh, okay, I'm not sure what the

400
00:20:57,280 --> 00:20:59,480
Speaker 2: exact connection there was, but he's in both of those

401
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Speaker 2: films and did parts.

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Speaker 3: A repeat talaa player.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: But this movie, so we mentioned Tallay didn't write it.

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Speaker 3: It was written by two bills, William Davies and William Osborne.

406
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Speaker 3: And so you looked at these guys up.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, these are the guys who wrote Twins and

408
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Speaker 2: Stop or My Mom Will Shoot.

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Speaker 3: Stop or my Mom Will Shoot yep.

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Speaker 2: And then Osbourne went on to write The Scorpion King,

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Speaker 2: and Davies went on to write the screenplay for How

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Speaker 2: to Train Your Dragon and in various other projects. I

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Speaker 2: think he recently was the writer on a TV series

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Speaker 2: titled A Letter to the King, which I think my

415
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:39,200
Speaker 2: wife was watching and said was quite good. So, yeah,

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Speaker 2: these are accomplished screenplay writers here.

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Speaker 3: Interesting. Now, this movie has original music by somebody named

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Speaker 3: Graham Revel, and when I saw his name in the

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Speaker 3: opening credits, I knew I recognized it from somewhere. And

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Speaker 3: it took me a minute, but I figured out where.

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Speaker 3: Actually Revel has done tons of movie scores, including in

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Speaker 3: this One's for you Rob movies. Apparently he's a repeat

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Speaker 3: collaborator with Riddick director David Toohey. But I realized that

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Speaker 3: where I knew his name from was back when I

425
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:13,840
Speaker 3: used to listen to the original motion picture soundtrack of

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00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:17,800
Speaker 3: The Crow, which now this is kind of confusing because

427
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Speaker 3: I think he did the original score that appeared in

428
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Speaker 3: The Crow, and most of the music on that soundtrack

429
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Speaker 3: is like pop music. It's got Burned by the Cure,

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Speaker 3: which is fantastic, but it's also got nine inch nails,

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Speaker 3: Jesus and Mary chain. It is. It is music to

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Speaker 3: resent your parents, to love you mom and dad, nothing,

433
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Speaker 3: no hard feelings.

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Speaker 2: No no I feel you on that. I definitely had

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Speaker 2: had this soundtrack as well. My wife had it. We

436
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:48,280
Speaker 2: sometimes talk about it because what will happen is will

437
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:49,680
Speaker 2: be like, oh, man, what are we going to listen

438
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:52,320
Speaker 2: to on this drive. Let's put the Cure soundtrack on.

439
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:56,160
Speaker 2: Let's that was a great, great soundtrack, and I think

440
00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:58,320
Speaker 2: when you dip back into it, you tend to find

441
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:00,800
Speaker 2: that was a soundtrack that had one or two songs

442
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:05,440
Speaker 2: that I really liked back in the nineties. But yeah,

443
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:07,320
Speaker 2: it does have some good tracks on it, and certainly

444
00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:09,600
Speaker 2: at the time it was, it was a really solid

445
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:10,480
Speaker 2: soundtrack album.

446
00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, definitely that Cure song, it's like the

447
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:17,359
Speaker 3: first track on it is amazing. Then you get into

448
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:20,040
Speaker 3: like some Rallins band stuff that you know you could

449
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:20,480
Speaker 3: take release.

450
00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:22,960
Speaker 2: I don't know. I love that Rollin band song Oh okay,

451
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:25,160
Speaker 2: ghost Rider. I think it was called yeah.

452
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:27,840
Speaker 3: Oh okay. So that's the highlight for you.

453
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:29,760
Speaker 2: Well, it was one of the highlight I liked it.

454
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:31,280
Speaker 2: I liked it back in the day. I don't really

455
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:33,760
Speaker 2: like it's not in regular rotation these days.

456
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 3: But so he does the original music for this movie,

457
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:42,159
Speaker 3: and it's it's funny because the music that plays in

458
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,399
Speaker 3: the opening credits very much makes me think this is

459
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:48,200
Speaker 3: vapor Wave of twenty five years ahead of its time,

460
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,119
Speaker 3: which is weird because you could just say that this

461
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 3: is what vapor Wave is supposed to be, a copy

462
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,480
Speaker 3: or a satire on. But then again, I feel like

463
00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:58,639
Speaker 3: a very important feature of vapor Wave is that it's

464
00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:01,840
Speaker 3: a photo copy of some thing that never exactly existed

465
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 3: in the first place. So this movie in some ways

466
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:08,960
Speaker 3: has aspects of a missing original.

467
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:12,119
Speaker 2: Really, you got a vapor Way vibe from the soundtrack

468
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 2: to this movie.

469
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:16,360
Speaker 3: The opening credits music, yeah, a little bit. Oh, okay,

470
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:19,359
Speaker 3: this is very you remember them when the terminator font

471
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 3: is showing all the names and it's very chill.

472
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:24,200
Speaker 2: Now, I have to say that the music in this film,

473
00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:26,520
Speaker 2: it's as if it didn't exist. It was just so

474
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:29,439
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm sure it was fine, and maybe I

475
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:31,320
Speaker 2: was just distracted when I first heard it put it on,

476
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:35,520
Speaker 2: But yeah, this is one of those scores that is

477
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:39,199
Speaker 2: perfectly competent, but I barely thought about it, you know,

478
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,639
Speaker 2: it was like purely functional for me.

479
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 3: Okay, Well, let's round out the cast before we get

480
00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 3: into the plot.

481
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:47,360
Speaker 2: So wait, so you have a you have another note

482
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 2: in here. We have to touch on about the Revel.

483
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 3: Oh, Revel is sometimes a collaborator with the guy I

484
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 3: can't remember his real name, but Lust Mord see.

485
00:24:56,520 --> 00:25:00,360
Speaker 2: Now this surprises me because because again this is such

486
00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 2: a forgettable soundtrack, I mean, such a forgetable score. And

487
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:07,919
Speaker 2: the idea that he also works with lust Mord, I

488
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:09,920
Speaker 2: mean that that reveals there's you know, a there's a

489
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:13,720
Speaker 2: lot more depth to revel here. But also yeah, that's

490
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:16,480
Speaker 2: a start contrast. Like if les Mord had done the

491
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 2: soundtrack for this film, I'd probably be raving about it.

492
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:23,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, so this movie, Yeah, well I do want to

493
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,359
Speaker 3: call out, like I'm not singling out. The original score

494
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:28,359
Speaker 3: for this film is all that notable, except in the

495
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:30,160
Speaker 3: opening credits where it sounds like vaporwave.

496
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:32,240
Speaker 2: But I'm gonna have to revisit it. I may have

497
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:33,520
Speaker 2: I may have been distracted.

498
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:37,879
Speaker 3: Maybe I'm losing my mind. Who knows. Jessica Walters in

499
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:41,359
Speaker 3: this movie. We should have mentioned that earlier. Lucille Bluth,

500
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:43,399
Speaker 3: the matriarch of Arrested Development.

501
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:46,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, she basically plays Lucille Bluth in this as well.

502
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,280
Speaker 2: Just it's a part. It seems written for her. It

503
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 2: plays to her strength. She's kind of she's she's Karen

504
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:56,119
Speaker 2: Allen's fussy mother, and she's doing things like like buying

505
00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 2: proper khaki pants for the teenager.

506
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, she's like a human glass of prosecco. She's just

507
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:05,879
Speaker 3: constantly she's turning her nose up at everything so hard

508
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:07,159
Speaker 3: that her neck's gonna break.

509
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, she's not in this much, but she's great

510
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:13,400
Speaker 2: in the scenes that she's in, for sure.

511
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,160
Speaker 3: But then we should get to the real I think

512
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:20,639
Speaker 3: the star of this cast, which is which, which is

513
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 3: the child of Karen Allen in this movie, who is

514
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 3: straight out of a game Boy commercial. He's like skateboard backwards, hat,

515
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 3: flannel shirt tied around the waist, early nineties adults perception

516
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,239
Speaker 3: of what a cool kid is like. And he is

517
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 3: totally radical.

518
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:44,119
Speaker 2: Yes, he is poochy in human form. He's wearing all

519
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:47,120
Speaker 2: the he's wearing all the poochy clothes. Like you say,

520
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 2: he's cool to the max. He's he's talking crap to

521
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 2: his mom. He's too cool for his mom. Let His

522
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:56,800
Speaker 2: loves include creeping on the teen neighborhood girl who's also

523
00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:01,119
Speaker 2: like a babysitter, and then all so he loves nineties

524
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 2: hip hop, and actually he seems to have a really

525
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:05,399
Speaker 2: good taste in nineties hip hop, Like if you just

526
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 2: look at the songs featured in this movie, you're like, oh, man,

527
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 2: this has a great soundtrack. Well, it's just incidental music

528
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,399
Speaker 2: every time you go into Kid Pooci's room. But he

529
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:19,360
Speaker 2: also likes softcore robot video games. There's one really cringey

530
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 2: scene he's powering that up.

531
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:22,919
Speaker 3: God, that was hard to watch.

532
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, there are a few scenes featuring Kid Poochie here

533
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,360
Speaker 2: that do not elect a groan I have to say.

534
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 2: I mean, he's fine as a kid actor and nothing

535
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:34,879
Speaker 2: against horn f here, but yeah, this kid is just

536
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:38,200
Speaker 2: straight up poochie. Yeah, and I guess we should also

537
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 2: point out that the killer in this film, who will

538
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,639
Speaker 2: talk about a bit more as we proceed here, is

539
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 2: played by an actor named Ted Marko.

540
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:50,640
Speaker 3: Would you say Markku Markux.

541
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, so he he's one of these guys. Look him

542
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 2: up on IMDb and there's not even a photograph of him.

543
00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 2: But he's done a lot of work and a lot

544
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:03,480
Speaker 2: of voiceover nar including for episodes of Nova and the

545
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,439
Speaker 2: series called Killer Unknown. And that seems like the perfect

546
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:08,159
Speaker 2: combination considering this film.

547
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, so the movie, the plot really starts with the

548
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,680
Speaker 3: killer here. I guess if we want to get into

549
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:15,919
Speaker 3: the plot or are you ready?

550
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:17,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's good, let's dive right in.

551
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:20,639
Speaker 3: So of course they're opening credits with what would you

552
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 3: guess it shows in the opening credits, it's like weird animations,

553
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:27,359
Speaker 3: ridiculous drawings of circuit boards, and it's playing the music

554
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 3: that you did not agree was vapor wavesque and is

555
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 3: showing the names of all the people who worked on

556
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 3: the movie in the terminator fond like the font that

557
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 3: scrolls over Ronald Schwarzennigger's eyes when he's looking at the

558
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 3: world and it's all red. And then it just comes

559
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 3: up on the killer parking his car outside a house.

560
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 3: He's this evil murderer and he's eating a pixie stick

561
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 3: and you see him creeping.

562
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 2: Basically, Yeah, he's got a trunk full of knives, which

563
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 2: is pretty impressive. Like, wow, that's quite a kill kit.

564
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 3: You got there, right, And then we meet our main characters.

565
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,719
Speaker 3: I think we meet Kid Pouchi before we meet Karen Allen. Oh,

566
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 3: because Poochie is pulling a con. Poochi and his best

567
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 3: friend are trying to pull a like lotto cyber scam

568
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 3: on their basketball coach. Yeah, and so he's trying to

569
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 3: trick his basketball coach into buying a fake lottery ticket

570
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 3: and that they do some some phone freaking to trick

571
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 3: him into thinking it's real.

572
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 2: Oh yeah it was. It was phone freaking, right, yeah,

573
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 2: which is kind of like the the immediate predecessor to hacking.

574
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 3: Yeah. So we meet kid Poochie and we meet Karen Allen,

575
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 3: and then we come back to see the work of

576
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 3: the Evil Killer. And it's one of those things where

577
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 3: it it pulls, you know, the camera pans up on

578
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 3: apple pie and baseball. How wholesome.

579
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 2: Literally there's a whole apple pie on the counter and

580
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 2: next to it is a baseball glove that when I

581
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:55,600
Speaker 2: think a baseball in it, which is it's just a

582
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 2: superposition of terrible and brilliant. I'm not sure like where

583
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 2: to go with it, Like it's either incredibly stupid or

584
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 2: it's just it's just positioned appropriately within the context of

585
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 2: this film. I can't decide.

586
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 3: Oh no, I mean I think it's right. I mean

587
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 3: it's hard to talk about exactly, like what the I

588
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 3: don't think you could argue this movie is good, Like

589
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 3: this movie is definitely bad, but it's like the kind

590
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 3: of bad movie that's made by smart people. It's like

591
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 3: it has a certain wink, a sparkle in its eye

592
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 3: about all of the pie and the bases ball and

593
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:30,960
Speaker 3: then panning over to the murder scene.

594
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely.

595
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 3: But then we go to one of my favorite early scenes,

596
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 3: which is this is I just want to give so

597
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 3: many chef kisses. This scene is what these types of

598
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 3: movies are all about. And it's Karen Allen and Kid

599
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 3: Poucy are shopping for a gift for Karen Allen's boss

600
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 3: at a computer store, and so they're trying to buy

601
00:30:56,240 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 3: desktop software quote desktop software, and guy the salesman there

602
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 3: is like showing them how all the desktop software works.

603
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 3: I think he's trying to sell them on a computer

604
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 3: program called the Paper Warrior.

605
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 2: And Karen Allen the whole time is like computers, How

606
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 2: do computers work? Yeah? I do not like computers.

607
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 3: Ac act she hates it. But the kid is all

608
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 3: fascinated because he loves technology, and he's like, oh, he

609
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 3: walks up to there's a guy in the computer store

610
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:29,080
Speaker 3: repairing a bunch of technology, and the kid goes up

611
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 3: and wants to touch it. And then the guy doing

612
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 3: the repairs is all creepy, and then you get your

613
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 3: first indication like could this be the murderer we saw earlier,

614
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 3: and of course the murderer works at the computer store.

615
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 2: It's absolutely the murderer.

616
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 3: But the guy's like demonstrating this handheld scanner that scans

617
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 3: address books into the computer in nineteen ninety three, I

618
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:52,760
Speaker 3: don't know about that.

619
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:56,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, then this would be key because we find out

620
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:58,600
Speaker 2: a little later this is the address book killer. This

621
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 2: is what he does. Yeah, he like steals address books,

622
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 2: scans address books, and kills people based on their addresses

623
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 2: in the address book. Is that right?

624
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 3: Yeah? I think so. It's just like he goes down

625
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 3: the page in the address books and kills everybody in there.

626
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 2: Yeah. It's like somebody saw Terminator and somebody saw Manhunter,

627
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 2: and they kind of very loosely combined the villains of

628
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 2: both into one being here.

629
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 3: Right, And then next we're going to meet off brand

630
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 3: Bill Murray. So we cut away to Bill Murray arriving

631
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 3: at a company called data Net. And that's another thing

632
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:34,480
Speaker 3: I love about these movies is the names of the

633
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 3: companies where, you know, the computer companies and networks and systems.

634
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 3: Could have been Cystech, could have been data Net, could

635
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 3: have been cyber Net, could have been oh wait, that's

636
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:46,160
Speaker 3: actually from a movie.

637
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's terminator, right.

638
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 3: But Bill Murray shows up and he is wet, he's

639
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 3: been like rained on and he's like, hey, I'm here

640
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,640
Speaker 3: for the job. And there's this guy who's I guess

641
00:32:56,720 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 3: his boss now and is just is like you thought

642
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 3: you were so smart. And we find out that this

643
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 3: Bill Bill Murray character, his character's name is Bram Walker,

644
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 3: and he's like a former Robin Hood hacker of some kind.

645
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 3: What was the deal that we find out he did.

646
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 2: He did some sort of a hack on the I

647
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 2: R S. So you know, he was technically a criminal,

648
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 2: but he was going after the bad guy. So and

649
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 2: now he's turned like full white hat hacker.

650
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:32,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, and this scene's just full of stuff. The boss

651
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 3: is like openly saying like you used to think you

652
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 3: were so smart, Well now I'm your boss.

653
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 2: I believe this is also the scene where one of

654
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:45,680
Speaker 2: the characters refers to something as being controversial or as

655
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 2: hated quote as Howard Stern, which is nicely cements it

656
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 2: in the time.

657
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 3: I think they're talking about junk mail, like this company

658
00:33:54,840 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 3: is like this company like basically spams people's paper mailboxes. Okay,

659
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 3: I'm not sure why they're called data net if they do.

660
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 3: But they've got a bunch of computers too. Maybe they

661
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 3: need the most high powered computers in the world in

662
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:08,839
Speaker 3: order to spam people's mailboxes.

663
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:10,800
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, because that's the thing. They have some crazy

664
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 2: advanced computers here.

665
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,359
Speaker 3: So some stuff. We meet, some more characters, We meet

666
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:20,840
Speaker 3: Lucille Bluth. But then the next big thing that happens

667
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 3: is that the killer is on his way to do something.

668
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 3: Is he coming to murder Karen Allen? For some reason,

669
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 3: I think that's implied that he's like going to her house.

670
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:31,879
Speaker 2: I think so, yeah, he's he's on the way.

671
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 3: But on the way we sort of get a disx Mackina.

672
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 3: You know, this movie is called Ghost in the Machine,

673
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:42,960
Speaker 3: but it features several god out of the machines. He

674
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 3: gets into a car crash and he's like, he rolls

675
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:50,759
Speaker 3: down a hill and he smashes through a graveyard and

676
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 3: it's one of those great things where the killer's like,

677
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:55,719
Speaker 3: you know, he's crashing his car and he's laughing the

678
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 3: whole time to show how twisted he really is.

679
00:34:58,880 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 2: It's like, yay death.

680
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, And this is funny because this ties into a

681
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:04,799
Speaker 3: real thing. There's a part where he smashes through a

682
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,799
Speaker 3: graveyard and like knocks over a bunch of headstones, which

683
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 3: is something that I saw happen firsthand in reality one time.

684
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 3: Oh really, yeah, I was out here in town. I

685
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,360
Speaker 3: was out for a walk through one of the local graveyards.

686
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:21,840
Speaker 3: And I think it was a kid and his mom.

687
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:25,360
Speaker 3: There were practicing driving, so he must have, you know,

688
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:28,279
Speaker 3: be a learner's permit or something. And they were in

689
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 3: one of the driveways of the graveyard and they were

690
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 3: sitting in the car for a while, and then the

691
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,919
Speaker 3: kid is in the driver's seat. He gradually starts accelerating

692
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:40,799
Speaker 3: and then just speeds up, goes over the curb, and

693
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:45,359
Speaker 3: like knocks over like six headstones, and then they come

694
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:47,920
Speaker 3: to a stop. Everybody was okay, nobody was harmed, but

695
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 3: they did cause some some graveyard damage, and I remember

696
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 3: feeling extremely bad and embarrassed for that kid.

697
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:58,400
Speaker 2: Now, the killer in this does some graveyard damage and

698
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 2: sustain some grave damage himself, right.

699
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:03,480
Speaker 3: That's right. So you know, they take him to the hospital.

700
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:06,440
Speaker 3: He's dying. They put the body in an MRI. Is

701
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:08,560
Speaker 3: that normally what they do to you when you're like

702
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:10,680
Speaker 3: on the verge of death is the pagentity.

703
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:12,879
Speaker 2: He's about to die. Get him in the MRI.

704
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 3: I don't know, maybe there'd be some reason to do that,

705
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:17,800
Speaker 3: but they put him in the MRI. And again Richard

706
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 3: Schiff Toby Ziegler is an MRI technician. And then lightning

707
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:24,600
Speaker 3: strikes and there's a power surge.

708
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 2: Yes, and this scene is great because we have a

709
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:32,799
Speaker 2: convergence of often poorly understood natural phenomena, misunderstood technology, and

710
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:36,279
Speaker 2: of course the brain itself. So of course lightning can

711
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:39,239
Speaker 2: make an MRI machine straight up jack your brain and

712
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 2: upload it not only into the Internet but into the

713
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 2: electrical grid and everything else.

714
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, and this sets up the rest of the movie.

715
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:50,800
Speaker 3: So the title Ghost in the Machine is completely literal

716
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 3: the premise of this film, like the title, is also

717
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:56,839
Speaker 3: the elevator pitch for the movie. It is that there's

718
00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:01,279
Speaker 3: literally a killer's ghost uploaded to an Internet and inside

719
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:02,320
Speaker 3: all of the machines.

720
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:05,239
Speaker 2: Now, yeah, and he can do everything. And now he's

721
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 2: not you know, he can't be everywhere at once. He

722
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:12,320
Speaker 2: has to travel around through your circuitry and your computers

723
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:15,160
Speaker 2: from this screen to that screen. But wherever he goes

724
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:17,760
Speaker 2: he has like full access and can do absolutely whatever.

725
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 2: He wants even if the is kind of a maximum

726
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 2: overdrive principle in place here, like even if it's not

727
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:26,799
Speaker 2: a thing that you could actually hack, you know, like

728
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:31,960
Speaker 2: you can he can manipulate physical buttons and whatnot. But yeah,

729
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:33,640
Speaker 2: but it's not a concern for him because he has

730
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 2: absolute power, right.

731
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:37,920
Speaker 3: I Like another premise here in the scene is that

732
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:39,879
Speaker 3: when you die, you turn into a screen saver.

733
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:43,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I actually really love these scenes there. There

734
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 2: are all these flashy scenes of the Killer as an

735
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:49,360
Speaker 2: MRI GIF of a skull, you know, where it's like

736
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 2: flowing back and forth. It's pretty cool. Shades of the

737
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:56,600
Speaker 2: Killer from RoboCop two. What's his name, Cane? Yes, you

738
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 2: know tom Noon, where if you're digitized, you're just this

739
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:02,840
Speaker 2: distorted madness, you know. And all of these graphics, not

740
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:05,320
Speaker 2: only these graphics of the Killer himself, but him moving

741
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:09,400
Speaker 2: around through various systems. It reminds me a lot of

742
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 2: the computer graphics that were really popular and cool at

743
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:16,960
Speaker 2: this time. I'm thinking MTV stuff like Liquid Television, but

744
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:21,759
Speaker 2: also the Mind's I vhs and possibly DVD series. Did

745
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:23,720
Speaker 2: you remember seeing ads for these or anything?

746
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:26,440
Speaker 3: I Mean, they have a look that is very familiar

747
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:28,360
Speaker 3: to me, but I don't think I ever saw these

748
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:31,600
Speaker 3: things in particular. They are from a time in which

749
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:34,239
Speaker 3: there was a lot of stuff, you know, just interstitial

750
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 3: material on TV and stuff that looked like this.

751
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, mind's eye worth looking up if you're into this

752
00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:41,920
Speaker 2: sort of thing. I think most of them have been

753
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:45,360
Speaker 2: uploaded in full onto YouTube. But it's just a bunch

754
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 2: of sort of psychedelic and surreal short CGI films of

755
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:55,200
Speaker 2: the time. And it's anyway, this film reminded me of

756
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 2: that stuff a lot.

757
00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 3: Yeah. So so here we're set up for the rest

758
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:01,279
Speaker 3: of the movie where you can probably kind of guess

759
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:04,520
Speaker 3: what happened, especially if you've ever seen the movie Shocker,

760
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:08,239
Speaker 3: which was directed by Wes Craven, which there are a

761
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:10,960
Speaker 3: lot of similarities in the plot here. That's also about

762
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:14,680
Speaker 3: a killer who gets sucked into the electrical grid and

763
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:17,240
Speaker 3: just like takes over machines and kills people.

764
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 2: Which is the better film?

765
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:24,120
Speaker 3: Ooh? I mean it's funny. They're both bad, they're both

766
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:27,120
Speaker 3: in bad taste, but they both have their their sort

767
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:32,720
Speaker 3: of stylistic pleasures. I mean, they're both highly entertaining, fun

768
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:35,280
Speaker 3: funny bad movies in bad taste.

769
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 2: Okay, but this one has Karen Allen, so.

770
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:40,799
Speaker 3: That's true, though, the other one has the guy who

771
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 3: plays Skinner from The X Files. He's the killer.

772
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:45,799
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, he's pretty great.

773
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:50,440
Speaker 3: Yeah and he man, he just like eats miles of

774
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 3: the scenery in that movie.

775
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 2: He's like, a yeah. Everybody's pretty restrained for the most

776
00:39:57,120 --> 00:39:59,360
Speaker 2: part in this film, except for possibly Kid Poucci.

777
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 3: I guess Kid Poochy. Yeah, Kid Poochy, Like, oh, so.

778
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:04,440
Speaker 3: The next thing that happens in the movie is we

779
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:07,439
Speaker 3: get the Chekhov's gun of the film, which is that

780
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:10,439
Speaker 3: Kid Poochy has a has a program of some kind

781
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 3: on a floppy disc, one of the kinds that was

782
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:16,239
Speaker 3: actually floppy, and Caroen Ellen like sticks it to the

783
00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:19,800
Speaker 3: refrigerator door with a magnet and he and Kid Poochy

784
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:22,440
Speaker 3: finds this and he whines about it. He's like, ma,

785
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:26,160
Speaker 3: you wiped out my new program. You never put computer

786
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:27,960
Speaker 3: discs near a magnet.

787
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:30,399
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that was great. It's like right away, you're like, yep,

788
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:32,680
Speaker 2: this is how they killed the bag. This is totally it.

789
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:34,200
Speaker 3: Why would you say that otherwise?

790
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:37,360
Speaker 2: Like that scene in Jaws where they're like, never shoot

791
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:39,759
Speaker 2: it at an oxygen tank with a rifle. What's the

792
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:40,279
Speaker 2: matter with you?

793
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 3: Tanks are gonna blow up. Why would a movie explain

794
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:48,080
Speaker 3: how something works like that unless it's gonna be used

795
00:40:48,120 --> 00:41:00,239
Speaker 3: to defeat the killer? Yeah, but so here just from

796
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:04,799
Speaker 3: here on, just like hijinksinsu Like the killer is in

797
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:07,560
Speaker 3: the main frame and people are hacking the main frame,

798
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:11,000
Speaker 3: and I think he starts going down. Karen Allen's digitized

799
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:13,319
Speaker 3: a dress book because it's been scanned in with the

800
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:16,640
Speaker 3: scanner and killing everybody in her address book like he

801
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:17,760
Speaker 3: did when he was alive.

802
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:20,799
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, and the kills in this we'll get into

803
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 2: some of the details of them. It's basically Final Destination,

804
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:27,480
Speaker 2: you know, final for Final Destination is this film without

805
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:30,560
Speaker 2: any of the fun weird stuff, because final destination films

806
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:33,359
Speaker 2: are all about like what if you put your hand

807
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 2: into a garbage disposal and then it turned on? Or

808
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:39,680
Speaker 2: what if accidents happened and they were graphic and fatal,

809
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:42,440
Speaker 2: And of course in this film, our ghost in the

810
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 2: machine is engineering those moments.

811
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 3: Right in Final Destination, just there's this implication of this

812
00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 3: impersonal figure of like death that's making all these things

813
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:55,920
Speaker 3: happen in this movie. It's literally just a guy's ghost.

814
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:58,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, which again I have to say final Destination's that's

815
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:04,959
Speaker 2: bs because the death doesn't even make any fun puns, right, yeah, Lane.

816
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:09,240
Speaker 3: So then we get Kid Poochie and his friend being

817
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:14,000
Speaker 3: pervy teens and and then there's a great scene where

818
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:16,800
Speaker 3: the killer starts like trying to mess with Kid Poochi

819
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:21,360
Speaker 3: by sending him emails. But in this movie, quote email

820
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:25,400
Speaker 3: is something where you need to know someone's quote number

821
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:29,600
Speaker 3: to contact them, and there's like real time typing in chat.

822
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:32,760
Speaker 3: So it's emailed. You can see what the words appearing

823
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:38,239
Speaker 3: as they are typed. Okay, yeah, yeah, great and god,

824
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:41,279
Speaker 3: so there's just this middle section of the movie where

825
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 3: all this mischief is going on. The killers like messing

826
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:48,239
Speaker 3: with people and sometimes killing people. I guess before we

827
00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:51,840
Speaker 3: get to the VR scene, there is Oh, there's a

828
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:54,879
Speaker 3: great scene where Kid Poochy just spills oreos all over

829
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:56,800
Speaker 3: the place. It's just an oreo nightmare.

830
00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:00,360
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, Mom walks in and he's just got oreos

831
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:01,840
Speaker 2: all over the counter and just eating them off, the

832
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:04,480
Speaker 2: oreos like an absolute animal. And it's just another one

833
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:07,640
Speaker 2: of these scenes were like, oh, come on, poor Karen Allen,

834
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:10,760
Speaker 2: like this kid, he's not the worst, but he's a handful.

835
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:15,400
Speaker 3: Yeah. And then Bram Walker eventually makes contact with Karen

836
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:18,120
Speaker 3: Allen's character because I think the premise is that the

837
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:22,359
Speaker 3: killer has been messing around in data nets computers, and

838
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:25,480
Speaker 3: he has noticed that the killer is obsessed with Karen Allen.

839
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:27,719
Speaker 3: So he comes to her house and he's like, all

840
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,320
Speaker 3: this stuff about you keeps coming up in our files

841
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:33,600
Speaker 3: and her response is like, but I hate computers, Leave

842
00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:38,560
Speaker 3: me alone. I think she has this line where she

843
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:42,279
Speaker 3: says something like, you give us Tickeatron and bank machines.

844
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:45,600
Speaker 3: But then we get some kind of big brother. Yeah,

845
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:48,400
Speaker 3: was Ticketron a real thing? Or is that made up

846
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:50,040
Speaker 3: for the movie Ticketron?

847
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:54,240
Speaker 2: It sounds made up. Yeah, I'm happy to be corrected,

848
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:55,400
Speaker 2: but it really sounds made up.

849
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 3: But so yeah, then we're in full final destination mode

850
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:02,759
Speaker 3: and so the killer is just going after people. Now.

851
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:06,160
Speaker 3: I have to say, unfortunately, this is another movie or

852
00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:08,560
Speaker 3: it didn't pick these on purpose for them to be

853
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:11,080
Speaker 3: this way. This is another movie like Boggy Creek two

854
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 3: that does not pass the does the dog die test

855
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:16,879
Speaker 3: yes or does the dog survive test? Whatever you want

856
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:20,640
Speaker 3: to call it. This this movie unfortunately does kill a dog.

857
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:22,640
Speaker 3: It doesn't happen on screen.

858
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:26,120
Speaker 2: Right, but it happens off screen, and I have to

859
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:29,280
Speaker 2: say it breaks the dog rule in just absolute style.

860
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:32,120
Speaker 2: It's just a terrific scene. I'm not a big fan

861
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:36,000
Speaker 2: of dog deaths in movies either. I'm not a dog person,

862
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:38,440
Speaker 2: but I'm not crazy for them or anything. But this

863
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:41,960
Speaker 2: is clearly the best dog death ever in a motion picture.

864
00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:46,200
Speaker 3: First, just like the dog kind of deserves it.

865
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:48,680
Speaker 2: It's weird, yeah, yeah, like they kind of go Friday

866
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:51,720
Speaker 2: the Thirteenth on it, where you know, where you imply

867
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 2: or you show that this particular character is promiscuous and

868
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:59,279
Speaker 2: therefore somehow deserving of death, which you know, that's a

869
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:02,279
Speaker 2: whole topic onto itself, but in here it's in dog

870
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:06,640
Speaker 2: form because we firmly establish that our hero's dog is

871
00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 2: just a perf. Right, because here's what happened. So the

872
00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:13,839
Speaker 2: killer at first, I thought, oh, he wants to get

873
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 2: rid of the dog, so, you know, because the dog

874
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:16,920
Speaker 2: is the first line at the fence. But then I

875
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:18,880
Speaker 2: realized he probably just wants to kill the dog just

876
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:23,279
Speaker 2: because he's going down the list right right. So what

877
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 2: he does is he, you know, he jacks into the

878
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:29,080
Speaker 2: house and he turns on the TV in the house

879
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:31,440
Speaker 2: and turns it to a channel that is like an

880
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:35,520
Speaker 2: all dog channel, and so the actual dog in the

881
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:38,000
Speaker 2: house is like, oh, I've got to watch this, runs

882
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:40,239
Speaker 2: into the living room and it's so excited by this

883
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:43,799
Speaker 2: the footage of another dog that he starts humping the

884
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:48,640
Speaker 2: coffee table. Yeah. And then I'm trying to remember what

885
00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:51,160
Speaker 2: happens is there's something where he makes something else fly

886
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:52,040
Speaker 2: at the dog's head.

887
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, something like that, like a phone or so. Somehow

888
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 3: we end up outside in the backyard.

889
00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:02,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, startles the horny dog outside by the pool, Okay,

890
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:06,759
Speaker 2: and then there's ominous music cutaway when we find out

891
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:10,960
Speaker 2: later somehow he further got the dog into the pool

892
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:14,160
Speaker 2: and then managed to turn on the automated cover for

893
00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:17,000
Speaker 2: the pool, which is not a hard cover. This is

894
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:19,960
Speaker 2: not like one of those James Bond films where it's

895
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:22,839
Speaker 2: like a metal cover that goes over the top of it.

896
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:25,280
Speaker 2: These are just like a tarp Yeah, it's not like Thunderball.

897
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:29,080
Speaker 2: This is just a tarp on like automated wheels. Somehow

898
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:31,760
Speaker 2: that traps the dog in there, and the dog drowns.

899
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:35,080
Speaker 3: I think there's the implication that the killer may have

900
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:39,600
Speaker 3: also used the automatic snaking pool cleaner robot to kill

901
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:39,839
Speaker 3: the dog.

902
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:44,239
Speaker 2: Yes, that's right. It's it's not perfectly executed, but we

903
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:46,600
Speaker 2: see shades of this when Kid Puci goes in to

904
00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:49,440
Speaker 2: rescue the dog and he gets wrapped up in the

905
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:52,879
Speaker 2: pool cleaning robot and the cover starts closing, and it's

906
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:55,680
Speaker 2: just great because the music is ratcheting up. It's implying

907
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 2: if he gets stuck in here, he will drown, he'll

908
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:01,640
Speaker 2: be doomed, when again, this is just a tarp, like

909
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 2: there's nothing. Why don't you going to be sealed in

910
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:06,600
Speaker 2: It's not even like it's not even all the way

911
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:08,880
Speaker 2: you know, close to the water, like there's room to

912
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:11,880
Speaker 2: breathe in there. So it's a wonderful, ridiculous scene.

913
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 3: Why would you make a pool cover like that, the

914
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 3: mechanized rollers that automatically cover it up as bizarre. Yeah,

915
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:25,000
Speaker 3: there is also a big VR scene, actually the VR

916
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:27,240
Speaker 3: scene I think happens right before this, where the kid

917
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:31,239
Speaker 3: and his buddies are playing a virtual reality video game

918
00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:35,280
Speaker 3: at the mall like you do, and the killer somehow

919
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:37,160
Speaker 3: gets into there and freaks them out.

920
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:40,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's that's pretty fun too, and has some

921
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:42,680
Speaker 2: nice nice These are some of the cheesier graphics, but

922
00:47:42,719 --> 00:47:44,399
Speaker 2: they do fit within the context of the time.

923
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:47,600
Speaker 3: I would say as far as the like the attacks

924
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:50,080
Speaker 3: by the Killer Go, I think my favorite is when

925
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:53,600
Speaker 3: it attacks Karen Allen's boyfriend who is working at a

926
00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:57,839
Speaker 3: crash test simulator, which so it's just this like warehouse

927
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:01,400
Speaker 3: of peril. It's a perfect setup for a Final Destination

928
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:02,360
Speaker 3: style scene.

929
00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:04,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, where they're doing crash test stuff.

930
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:08,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he keeps the guy. It's they really I

931
00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:11,320
Speaker 3: will say the scene is funny, especially when it concludes,

932
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:15,440
Speaker 3: but it it goes on so long, like they really

933
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:17,759
Speaker 3: drag it out. He's just like, let's have him put

934
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:20,320
Speaker 3: his head under the tire. Now he'll put his body

935
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:23,919
Speaker 3: under this thing. They just put him in peril again

936
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:25,840
Speaker 3: and again and again, and then by the time it

937
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:28,880
Speaker 3: ends you are not expecting what happens, which is the

938
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:32,400
Speaker 3: he gets killed by an automatic hand dryer in a bathroom.

939
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:36,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's it's pretty great. They're clearly playing that

940
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:38,080
Speaker 2: one up for laughs. They also have a scene where

941
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:40,960
Speaker 2: they're like, will that the young child be boiled or

942
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:43,840
Speaker 2: scalded by boiling water or somehow hurt by an oven

943
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:46,640
Speaker 2: and they pull the punch on that one, which which

944
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:46,960
Speaker 2: is good.

945
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:49,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't, I don't. I don't think the movie

946
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:53,319
Speaker 3: ever has any young children getting well, like the babysitter

947
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:55,320
Speaker 3: gets killed by a dishwasher.

948
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:58,920
Speaker 2: Right, that that does happen. But but yeah, for the

949
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:03,359
Speaker 2: most part, keep it tasteful. Probably they don't No, well,

950
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:05,239
Speaker 2: I mean they well, they kill the dog and they

951
00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:07,600
Speaker 2: don't kill out people. They don't kill the young child. Okay,

952
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:10,160
Speaker 2: they don't kill the young child. They don't cross that line.

953
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:13,480
Speaker 2: Other lines are crossed, but not that one. The microwave

954
00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:14,479
Speaker 2: scene is a great kill.

955
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:18,040
Speaker 3: That one is pretty amazing. So there is a guy

956
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:22,680
Speaker 3: who gets cooked by his microwave oven from across the room.

957
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:26,600
Speaker 3: I think I have a brief monster science diversion. I

958
00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:29,000
Speaker 3: don't think that's very plausible. I mean, not like that

959
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:30,959
Speaker 3: that's what they really had in mind, that these deaths

960
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:33,000
Speaker 3: are plausible. I mean, I don't think the hand dryer

961
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:37,799
Speaker 3: is plausible either. But if a microwave were to even

962
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:41,000
Speaker 3: like have all of its safety features disabled and end

963
00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:44,640
Speaker 3: up just blasting microwave radiation directly into the kitchen with you,

964
00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:47,320
Speaker 3: I think it could burn you if you're really close,

965
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:51,359
Speaker 3: but electromagnetic radiation spreads out according to the inverse square loss,

966
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:54,680
Speaker 3: if you're like across the room from it, I think

967
00:49:54,719 --> 00:49:57,160
Speaker 3: you're probably out of danger unless you're there for a

968
00:49:57,200 --> 00:50:00,520
Speaker 3: long time. Instead, it just shows it like instantly boiling

969
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:03,399
Speaker 3: this guy from all the way across the room.

970
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:05,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a gross scene. They do a good job

971
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:09,239
Speaker 2: with it, but yeah, it just turns the microwaves is

972
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:11,880
Speaker 2: cracked open, and it turns the whole room into a microwave.

973
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:15,480
Speaker 2: Which you know, we did an Invention episode, maybe a

974
00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:18,040
Speaker 2: pair of episodes you can't recall, on the microwave oven.

975
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:22,520
Speaker 2: And I think we briefly touched on ridiculous microwave kill

976
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:25,040
Speaker 2: scenes in horror movies. We might have even mentioned this

977
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:27,120
Speaker 2: film even though we neither of us had seen it

978
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:30,000
Speaker 2: yet at that point. Huh, But yeah, you see it.

979
00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:31,799
Speaker 2: You see this from time to time, the idea that

980
00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:33,640
Speaker 2: the microwave can do crazy things.

981
00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:36,360
Speaker 3: Now, of course, the final part of the movie involves

982
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:41,120
Speaker 3: the heroes like Karen Allen and Bram what's his name

983
00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:44,279
Speaker 3: Bram Walker setting a trap for the killer that I

984
00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:47,320
Speaker 3: think I don't remember if it originally in Their plan

985
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:50,760
Speaker 3: involves a magnet, but ends up involving a giant electromagnet.

986
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:55,600
Speaker 3: And I gotta say this is a narrative device that

987
00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:57,879
Speaker 3: I really like. When the heroes are faced with an

988
00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:00,520
Speaker 3: unstoppable killing machine, they have to set up a trap

989
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:04,279
Speaker 3: for it. It's in Predator, It's in It Follows, It's

990
00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:06,200
Speaker 3: in tons of movies that are a lot of fun.

991
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:08,439
Speaker 3: I'm not sure why I like that device so much,

992
00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:10,680
Speaker 3: but I feel like it's a good way to conclude

993
00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:11,760
Speaker 3: a movie of this type.

994
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:14,520
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it tends to work pretty well, and it's

995
00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:18,239
Speaker 2: I guess it's pretty fun ending for the film. Like basically,

996
00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:22,040
Speaker 2: he's somehow that the killer assumes physical form. I think

997
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:24,640
Speaker 2: he's what they're like little old nanobots or something. It

998
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:27,759
Speaker 2: becomes a cloud of nanobots and keeps trying to pour

999
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:31,840
Speaker 2: himself into the eyeballs of his victims without leaving a

1000
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:34,600
Speaker 2: scratch on them. He kind of comes off as a

1001
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:38,319
Speaker 2: low rent T one thousand in these scenes. Yes, and

1002
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:40,960
Speaker 2: it also reminds me a bit of the nineteen ninety

1003
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:45,239
Speaker 2: five cyber movie Virtuosity, in which Denzel Washington has to

1004
00:51:45,239 --> 00:51:48,840
Speaker 2: fight the Ultimate serial killer Sid six point seven, who's

1005
00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:52,360
Speaker 2: a simulation AI that's supposed to be a composite of

1006
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:55,440
Speaker 2: all the worst killers in history, which of course breaks

1007
00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:58,280
Speaker 2: out by somehow I think printing himself as a silicon

1008
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:02,600
Speaker 2: based life form or something like that. Is it Russell

1009
00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:06,040
Speaker 2: Crowe or somebody like it is? Oh, it's young Russell crow.

1010
00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:08,360
Speaker 2: It's like Russell Crowe right as he was exploding.

1011
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:10,719
Speaker 3: Uh huh. We should maybe come back and look at

1012
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:14,280
Speaker 3: that movie again. Sometimes that's a good ninety cyber panic movie.

1013
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:16,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I remember it being a lot of fun.

1014
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:20,520
Speaker 3: So I've actually got a deep thoughts segment for this episode.

1015
00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:23,120
Speaker 3: A Ghost in the Machine got me thinking about a

1016
00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:27,080
Speaker 3: number of things, which is that One thing, like I said,

1017
00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:29,440
Speaker 3: that's funny about this movie is that it takes a

1018
00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:32,720
Speaker 3: phrase from the philosophy of mind ghost in the Machine,

1019
00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:34,960
Speaker 3: which I'll explain in just a minute, and it makes

1020
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:38,200
Speaker 3: it totally literal. Like I didn't even realize that until

1021
00:52:38,239 --> 00:52:40,880
Speaker 3: after I watched the movie and we were talking about it,

1022
00:52:41,239 --> 00:52:44,839
Speaker 3: that the title is just a statement of exactly what

1023
00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:47,520
Speaker 3: happens in the plot. There's a ghost inside the machines.

1024
00:52:47,560 --> 00:52:51,759
Speaker 3: The microwave is haunted. But the phrase ghost in the

1025
00:52:51,800 --> 00:52:56,759
Speaker 3: machine is usually attributed to the twentieth century British philosopher

1026
00:52:56,800 --> 00:53:00,400
Speaker 3: Gilbert Ryle, who used this phrase to describe ib A.

1027
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:04,920
Speaker 3: Kart's concept of mind body dualism, also known as Cartesian dualism,

1028
00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:07,760
Speaker 3: which is the belief that the mind, like your ability

1029
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:12,279
Speaker 3: to think consciously, is a non physical substance, and that

1030
00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:15,319
Speaker 3: the mind and the body are distinct and can be

1031
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:19,520
Speaker 3: separated from one another. And Ryle was a philosopher who

1032
00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:22,640
Speaker 3: lectured at Oxford. He used the phrase ghost in the

1033
00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:25,960
Speaker 3: Machine in a nineteen forty nine book called The Concept

1034
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:28,600
Speaker 3: of Mind, which was very influential for a while. It

1035
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:31,680
Speaker 3: was an attack on this idea and an attack on

1036
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:36,200
Speaker 3: the validity of mind body dualism. For Ryle, pretty much

1037
00:53:36,239 --> 00:53:38,479
Speaker 3: every time he says ghost in the machine in the book,

1038
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:41,360
Speaker 3: it is preceded by the phrase like the myth of

1039
00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:44,719
Speaker 3: or the dogma of so ghost in the machine for

1040
00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:51,000
Speaker 3: him is a confusion, a confusion that arises from problems

1041
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:54,920
Speaker 3: in thinking about what the mind is. And Rale basically

1042
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:56,960
Speaker 3: argues in this book, I want to be clear, I

1043
00:53:56,960 --> 00:53:58,640
Speaker 3: haven't read it, but I was reading about it. I

1044
00:53:58,680 --> 00:54:01,120
Speaker 3: was reading some summaries and reading and passages from it,

1045
00:54:01,160 --> 00:54:03,279
Speaker 3: and it seems like the core of his argument is

1046
00:54:03,320 --> 00:54:08,080
Speaker 3: that he thinks mind body dualism is an unnecessary confusion

1047
00:54:08,239 --> 00:54:12,400
Speaker 3: that's created by unclear use of language and really not

1048
00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:16,000
Speaker 3: understanding what we're talking about when we use words like mind.

1049
00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:20,440
Speaker 3: Raul's argument was that thinking of the mind and the

1050
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:24,960
Speaker 3: body as two separate things is wrong in the sense

1051
00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:28,319
Speaker 3: that it conceives of them as two distinct things in

1052
00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:31,880
Speaker 3: the same category, i e. The mind and the body

1053
00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:37,120
Speaker 3: are both objects or both substances. And I think for Ryle,

1054
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:39,880
Speaker 3: saying the mind and the body are two separate things

1055
00:54:40,360 --> 00:54:43,560
Speaker 3: is like a gambler saying there are three things in

1056
00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:47,120
Speaker 3: my hand. One die, another die, and a pair of dice.

1057
00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:50,319
Speaker 3: Those are the three things. So I want to read

1058
00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:53,320
Speaker 3: a passage from chapter one of the Concept of Mind

1059
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:56,839
Speaker 3: where he explains this idea a little further. Quote a

1060
00:54:56,880 --> 00:54:59,919
Speaker 3: purchaser might say that he bought a left hand glove

1061
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:03,000
Speaker 3: and a right hand glove, but not that he bought

1062
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:05,960
Speaker 3: a left hand glove, a right hand glove, and a

1063
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:09,960
Speaker 3: pair of gloves. Quote. She came home in a flood

1064
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:13,160
Speaker 3: of tears and a sedan chair is a well known

1065
00:55:13,239 --> 00:55:17,320
Speaker 3: joke based on the absurdity of conjoining terms of different types.

1066
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:20,960
Speaker 3: It would have been equally ridiculous to construct the disjunction.

1067
00:55:21,600 --> 00:55:24,640
Speaker 3: She came home either in a flood of tears or

1068
00:55:24,719 --> 00:55:28,080
Speaker 3: else in a sedan chair. And then a little later

1069
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:30,919
Speaker 3: he says, I am not, for example, denying that their

1070
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:35,400
Speaker 3: occur mental processes. Doing long division is a mental process,

1071
00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:38,240
Speaker 3: and so is making a joke. But I am saying

1072
00:55:38,280 --> 00:55:41,879
Speaker 3: that the phrase their occur mental processes does not mean

1073
00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:45,719
Speaker 3: the same sort of thing as their occur physical processes,

1074
00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:49,880
Speaker 3: and therefore it makes no sense to conjoin or disjoin

1075
00:55:49,960 --> 00:55:53,280
Speaker 3: the two. So I think, for Ryle, when you're thinking

1076
00:55:53,320 --> 00:55:56,839
Speaker 3: about minds and bodies, talking about the ghost in the

1077
00:55:56,880 --> 00:56:01,400
Speaker 3: machine is like talking about the pair in the two gloves.

1078
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:04,520
Speaker 3: There are actually two gloves. You could say that there

1079
00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:06,759
Speaker 3: is actually a pair of gloves. You can say that,

1080
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:09,520
Speaker 3: but the pair is not a thing, not a thing

1081
00:56:09,560 --> 00:56:11,960
Speaker 3: that it would make any sense to claim is either

1082
00:56:12,040 --> 00:56:15,760
Speaker 3: the same as or different from the gloves. Now, obviously

1083
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:18,239
Speaker 3: Ryle had critics who argued back against him, But I

1084
00:56:18,239 --> 00:56:21,200
Speaker 3: do find myself somewhat sympathetic to his point of view,

1085
00:56:21,640 --> 00:56:24,399
Speaker 3: and I wonder if Ryle's thinking here would have any

1086
00:56:24,440 --> 00:56:29,160
Speaker 3: wisdom to offer the more literal implications of thinking like

1087
00:56:29,239 --> 00:56:32,160
Speaker 3: we see in the story concept of ghost in the machine,

1088
00:56:32,280 --> 00:56:34,320
Speaker 3: because I want to be clear, like, while we're laughing

1089
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:36,600
Speaker 3: at the concept of ghost in the machine, like there's

1090
00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:39,399
Speaker 3: literally you know, the computer is haunted. Somebody's ghost went

1091
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:43,160
Speaker 3: into the electrical grid. In a way, people still think

1092
00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:45,759
Speaker 3: like this, Like even very smart people who know a

1093
00:56:45,760 --> 00:56:48,759
Speaker 3: lot about brains and computers, there are some of them

1094
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:51,720
Speaker 3: who believe that they will soon be able to upload

1095
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:55,400
Speaker 3: themselves into a computer or have their mind live on

1096
00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:59,120
Speaker 3: past the death of their physical body on a machine somehow.

1097
00:56:59,480 --> 00:57:02,000
Speaker 3: Now you know, I can't say that I know something

1098
00:57:02,040 --> 00:57:04,799
Speaker 3: like that is impossible. But the more I think about

1099
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:08,400
Speaker 3: that idea over the years, the more strange and possibly

1100
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:11,800
Speaker 3: confused it seems to me. And I think if people

1101
00:57:11,800 --> 00:57:14,759
Speaker 3: actually believe they can become the ghost in the machine,

1102
00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:18,120
Speaker 3: I wonder, is that kind of like saying, well, I

1103
00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:21,400
Speaker 3: can preserve my pair of gloves by putting them into

1104
00:57:21,400 --> 00:57:24,680
Speaker 3: the safe deposit box. Of course, the gloves themselves will

1105
00:57:24,680 --> 00:57:27,160
Speaker 3: be destroyed, they'll be burned, but I'll still have the pair.

1106
00:57:28,520 --> 00:57:30,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I meaneah, I mean I often feel the

1107
00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:35,800
Speaker 2: same way about often sometimes very cyberpunky properties that involve

1108
00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:41,440
Speaker 2: uploading of consciousness, transfer of consciousness between bodies, and it

1109
00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:43,680
Speaker 2: kind of gets into the same territory you get into

1110
00:57:43,760 --> 00:57:47,800
Speaker 2: with teleportation in science fiction, where if you think about

1111
00:57:47,840 --> 00:57:49,600
Speaker 2: it too hard, you like, this is destruction, Like this

1112
00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:53,000
Speaker 2: is every time, you're just destroying yourself every time you

1113
00:57:53,080 --> 00:57:59,560
Speaker 2: use that teleporter. Guys. But I don't know, in certain

1114
00:57:59,600 --> 00:58:03,240
Speaker 2: property it feels appropriate, right because the idea that humans

1115
00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:06,920
Speaker 2: could end up doing something like even religiously doing something

1116
00:58:06,960 --> 00:58:10,040
Speaker 2: that is innately destructive or in no way preserves who

1117
00:58:10,040 --> 00:58:13,600
Speaker 2: they are, but doing it out of the mistaken idea

1118
00:58:13,640 --> 00:58:15,200
Speaker 2: that it does. I mean a lot of the things

1119
00:58:15,200 --> 00:58:17,360
Speaker 2: we do for the ego are exactly like that.

1120
00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:20,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, there you get into some really deep arguments.

1121
00:58:20,080 --> 00:58:22,600
Speaker 3: This actually brings up something that I've been wanting to

1122
00:58:22,600 --> 00:58:27,000
Speaker 3: talk about on the podcast for a while, which is, oh,

1123
00:58:27,040 --> 00:58:30,000
Speaker 3: I forget the philosopher's name who brings this up, So

1124
00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:32,040
Speaker 3: I shouldn't get too deep into it now we'll have

1125
00:58:32,040 --> 00:58:34,720
Speaker 3: to come back. But basically, it is the problem of

1126
00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:40,440
Speaker 3: trying to imagine what future states of yourself would want,

1127
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:45,440
Speaker 3: or imagining desiring changes to yourself. And so one example

1128
00:58:45,440 --> 00:58:47,800
Speaker 3: of this is would you like to become a vampire

1129
00:58:48,440 --> 00:58:50,800
Speaker 3: and so like you can weigh the pros and cons

1130
00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:53,440
Speaker 3: of that, like, Okay, yeah, I could live longer, but

1131
00:58:53,480 --> 00:58:57,280
Speaker 3: there might be downsides. But the problem is the version

1132
00:58:57,400 --> 00:58:59,640
Speaker 3: of you that would be making the decision about whether

1133
00:58:59,720 --> 00:59:02,960
Speaker 3: or not you would like to become a vampire would

1134
00:59:03,000 --> 00:59:05,520
Speaker 3: be different once you are the vampire, and you may

1135
00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:08,840
Speaker 3: no longer have the same judgments about the pros and

1136
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:11,840
Speaker 3: cons if you were a vampire, because that would necessarily

1137
00:59:12,040 --> 00:59:13,480
Speaker 3: entail changes to yourself.

1138
00:59:14,040 --> 00:59:16,160
Speaker 2: Oh wow, we should definitely come back and talk about that,

1139
00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:18,120
Speaker 2: either as a straight up episode of stuff to blow

1140
00:59:18,160 --> 00:59:21,720
Speaker 2: your mind or find a suitably weird vampire movie to

1141
00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:23,000
Speaker 2: wrap around it, one or the other.

1142
00:59:23,560 --> 00:59:26,360
Speaker 3: But of course that's even more complicated if you can't

1143
00:59:26,360 --> 00:59:30,120
Speaker 3: even be guaranteed that there is whatever we think we

1144
00:59:30,240 --> 00:59:32,880
Speaker 3: mean when we say the continuation of consciousness.

1145
00:59:33,280 --> 00:59:35,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, because again, it's one of those things where you're

1146
00:59:35,160 --> 00:59:37,520
Speaker 2: talking about you're can continuing this thing that's happening now,

1147
00:59:37,520 --> 00:59:40,240
Speaker 2: and I don't really fully understand the thing that's happening now.

1148
00:59:41,040 --> 00:59:43,560
Speaker 2: I'm not even completely awake to some of the illusions

1149
00:59:43,560 --> 00:59:46,800
Speaker 2: that are wrapped up in the continuation of myself, as

1150
00:59:46,840 --> 00:59:49,480
Speaker 2: I am much less when you start thinking about some

1151
00:59:49,560 --> 00:59:52,400
Speaker 2: computerized version of me, some robotic version of me, some

1152
00:59:52,760 --> 00:59:57,600
Speaker 2: version of my brain put into another real or engineered body.

1153
00:59:57,920 --> 00:59:59,440
Speaker 2: It would be interesting if you had one of these

1154
00:59:59,480 --> 01:00:02,840
Speaker 2: films where like Russell Crowe the serial Killer in the

1155
01:00:02,960 --> 01:00:06,160
Speaker 2: digital form, like he takes he takes human form, and

1156
01:00:06,200 --> 01:00:10,280
Speaker 2: then he becomes a great guy or or our ghost

1157
01:00:10,360 --> 01:00:12,680
Speaker 2: in this film, like he becomes one with the Internet

1158
01:00:12,880 --> 01:00:16,400
Speaker 2: and just decides to you know, to streamline the power

1159
01:00:16,440 --> 01:00:20,919
Speaker 2: grid or something. You know which, because you're still talking

1160
01:00:20,920 --> 01:00:25,120
Speaker 2: about such a drastic transformation of self, you know, why

1161
01:00:25,160 --> 01:00:28,240
Speaker 2: would you still have the same aims and you know,

1162
01:00:28,920 --> 01:00:32,600
Speaker 2: you know, petty vengeances in mind. Yeah, it's like saying, like,

1163
01:00:32,640 --> 01:00:36,400
Speaker 2: what if I became an exploding star, would I finally

1164
01:00:36,440 --> 01:00:38,440
Speaker 2: get around to watching Twin Peaks? No, I would be

1165
01:00:38,440 --> 01:00:41,000
Speaker 2: an exploding star, Like that's probably what I would be

1166
01:00:41,040 --> 01:00:43,400
Speaker 2: super into doing is just continue to do to explode.

1167
01:00:43,640 --> 01:00:45,320
Speaker 2: I'm beyond Twin Peaks at this point.

1168
01:00:45,480 --> 01:00:47,200
Speaker 3: What if you were a screensaver though.

1169
01:00:47,320 --> 01:00:50,280
Speaker 2: Then I'd be super into saving screens I guess, or

1170
01:00:50,320 --> 01:00:51,920
Speaker 2: I'd be that mouse in the Maize.

1171
01:00:51,720 --> 01:00:55,880
Speaker 3: Right, did you have a favorite nineteen ninety screensaver from

1172
01:00:55,920 --> 01:00:57,200
Speaker 3: like the After Dark Suite?

1173
01:00:57,480 --> 01:01:00,400
Speaker 2: I was just always Starscaped, straight up Starscape. I was like,

1174
01:01:00,440 --> 01:01:04,240
Speaker 2: this is amazing. It's like it's it's basically a video

1175
01:01:04,280 --> 01:01:07,280
Speaker 2: game from my mind, you know, there's not much going

1176
01:01:07,280 --> 01:01:09,760
Speaker 2: on except you are traveling through space, and that alone

1177
01:01:09,760 --> 01:01:10,680
Speaker 2: felt like a revolution.

1178
01:01:11,280 --> 01:01:12,760
Speaker 3: I was a fan of that one too. It's one

1179
01:01:12,800 --> 01:01:14,480
Speaker 3: of the simplest ones, but I always thought it was

1180
01:01:14,520 --> 01:01:16,000
Speaker 3: really good.

1181
01:01:15,720 --> 01:01:17,960
Speaker 2: I need to put one back on my machine. It's

1182
01:01:17,960 --> 01:01:20,280
Speaker 2: not like a default option anymore. You got to engineer it,

1183
01:01:20,320 --> 01:01:22,360
Speaker 2: which is a shame. Come on, Apple, Well now these

1184
01:01:22,360 --> 01:01:25,600
Speaker 2: screens just turn off? I mean, what's that all about.

1185
01:01:25,760 --> 01:01:27,840
Speaker 2: Oh god, that's a great moment in this film where

1186
01:01:27,880 --> 01:01:30,560
Speaker 2: she comes in and she gets onto the team and

1187
01:01:30,600 --> 01:01:33,000
Speaker 2: she's like she's like, oh and turn off this computer.

1188
01:01:34,320 --> 01:01:36,760
Speaker 2: Electricity is not free, you know. Oh yeah, which I

1189
01:01:36,800 --> 01:01:39,480
Speaker 2: love that. It's like this such a foreign concept today

1190
01:01:39,480 --> 01:01:41,560
Speaker 2: for so many I was turn off the computer? You

1191
01:01:41,600 --> 01:01:42,840
Speaker 2: mean turn it off?

1192
01:01:43,080 --> 01:01:45,400
Speaker 3: Are you asking me for my heart to stop beating?

1193
01:01:45,440 --> 01:01:47,440
Speaker 3: Are you telling me to turn off my brain?

1194
01:01:50,760 --> 01:01:54,960
Speaker 2: All right, well, we're gonna have to close it out there.

1195
01:01:55,040 --> 01:01:58,160
Speaker 2: But yeah, this was a fun one. You can find

1196
01:01:58,200 --> 01:02:01,000
Speaker 2: this one, I think pretty much anywhere you can rent

1197
01:02:01,040 --> 01:02:04,000
Speaker 2: something right now, Look you watch it on Amazon Prime.

1198
01:02:04,080 --> 01:02:07,200
Speaker 2: I watched it on whatever. The default rental option is

1199
01:02:07,240 --> 01:02:10,000
Speaker 2: in an Xbox. I did that, but I checked, and

1200
01:02:10,000 --> 01:02:11,880
Speaker 2: you can also pick this one up cheap on DVD

1201
01:02:12,040 --> 01:02:14,120
Speaker 2: if you want to make it a permanent physical part

1202
01:02:14,120 --> 01:02:14,760
Speaker 2: of your collection.

1203
01:02:15,120 --> 01:02:18,200
Speaker 3: I gotta say, even though, like I said, I don't

1204
01:02:18,200 --> 01:02:20,160
Speaker 3: think anyone could make the argument that this is a

1205
01:02:20,160 --> 01:02:22,840
Speaker 3: good movie, this is definitely a bad movie. It does

1206
01:02:22,920 --> 01:02:25,520
Speaker 3: make me want to watch more Rachel Talay stuff, like

1207
01:02:25,560 --> 01:02:27,720
Speaker 3: I want to watch all her Doctor Who episodes. I'm

1208
01:02:27,720 --> 01:02:30,080
Speaker 3: gonna go watch tank Girl. I don't know.

1209
01:02:30,280 --> 01:02:33,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm one fulship tank Girl myself. Yeah.

1210
01:02:33,720 --> 01:02:33,959
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1211
01:02:34,400 --> 01:02:36,720
Speaker 2: The talent shines through with this. This is definitely one

1212
01:02:36,760 --> 01:02:38,680
Speaker 2: of those where people cared about the product.

1213
01:02:39,040 --> 01:02:43,080
Speaker 3: Bpdep BEP deep BBPEP. Hey, folks, we're doing a post

1214
01:02:43,120 --> 01:02:46,520
Speaker 3: recording insert because we wanted to tell you about something

1215
01:02:46,600 --> 01:02:51,160
Speaker 3: really exciting. Our amazing producer, Seth Nicholas Johnson is launching

1216
01:02:51,200 --> 01:02:53,520
Speaker 3: a podcast of his own and I think the first

1217
01:02:53,520 --> 01:02:55,520
Speaker 3: episodes are out today. Is that right, Seth?

1218
01:02:55,800 --> 01:02:58,840
Speaker 4: That's correct. I'm very excited about it. The show is

1219
01:02:58,840 --> 01:03:02,440
Speaker 4: called Record Store Society, and if you listening to this,

1220
01:03:02,480 --> 01:03:04,440
Speaker 4: if you consider yourself a music nerd. If you're the

1221
01:03:04,520 --> 01:03:06,360
Speaker 4: kind of person that likes to talk about music, hear

1222
01:03:06,400 --> 01:03:09,440
Speaker 4: about music, be introduced to new kinds of music. If

1223
01:03:09,520 --> 01:03:11,160
Speaker 4: you're the kind of person that likes to frequent your

1224
01:03:11,160 --> 01:03:14,479
Speaker 4: local record store, then then this show is literally made

1225
01:03:14,520 --> 01:03:16,320
Speaker 4: for you. I mean, in many ways, it's made for

1226
01:03:16,360 --> 01:03:18,840
Speaker 4: me because I'm that person, but it's also made for

1227
01:03:18,920 --> 01:03:23,400
Speaker 4: you if you are like me. And the basic premise

1228
01:03:23,440 --> 01:03:26,800
Speaker 4: of it is myself and my co host Tara Davies,

1229
01:03:27,760 --> 01:03:30,560
Speaker 4: we work at a record store and every day our

1230
01:03:30,600 --> 01:03:33,120
Speaker 4: customers come and they visit and they are shopping around,

1231
01:03:33,160 --> 01:03:35,280
Speaker 4: and we have conversations with them, and you can be

1232
01:03:35,320 --> 01:03:38,480
Speaker 4: a fly on the wall. We play games, we mostly

1233
01:03:38,520 --> 01:03:40,600
Speaker 4: just talk about music and we have a good time.

1234
01:03:40,840 --> 01:03:42,160
Speaker 4: And that's that's more or less.

1235
01:03:42,200 --> 01:03:42,360
Speaker 3: It.

1236
01:03:42,360 --> 01:03:45,960
Speaker 4: It's wish fulfillment. It's it's escapism in this wild twenty

1237
01:03:46,000 --> 01:03:49,479
Speaker 4: twenty world. It's it's for you, you.

1238
01:03:49,400 --> 01:03:55,120
Speaker 3: Know, yeah, and just for you stuff to blow your mind. Listener, well,

1239
01:03:55,120 --> 01:03:57,440
Speaker 3: who else would be listening for you out there listening.

1240
01:03:58,240 --> 01:04:01,200
Speaker 3: It's possible we may ourselves show up guests on the show.

1241
01:04:01,200 --> 01:04:03,320
Speaker 3: At some point. I've been told there may be need

1242
01:04:03,360 --> 01:04:05,520
Speaker 3: of a Neil Young nerd like me one day in

1243
01:04:05,520 --> 01:04:07,280
Speaker 3: the future, So that is the truth.

1244
01:04:07,600 --> 01:04:09,560
Speaker 4: We have not recorded it yet, but the goal is

1245
01:04:09,560 --> 01:04:11,960
Speaker 4: definitely to have a very Neil Young centric episode with

1246
01:04:12,080 --> 01:04:15,480
Speaker 4: Joe and that'll be a lot of fun. Robert, if

1247
01:04:15,480 --> 01:04:18,320
Speaker 4: you had to pick, what's your number one music fascination,

1248
01:04:18,360 --> 01:04:19,840
Speaker 4: what's the thing you like more than anything?

1249
01:04:20,360 --> 01:04:20,520
Speaker 3: Oh?

1250
01:04:20,640 --> 01:04:23,120
Speaker 2: Man, I mean, that's a tough one because there's there's things,

1251
01:04:23,120 --> 01:04:25,280
Speaker 2: there's things I'm fascinated with and things that I would

1252
01:04:25,320 --> 01:04:27,400
Speaker 2: definitely be up for talking about. So I don't know.

1253
01:04:27,520 --> 01:04:29,960
Speaker 2: I mean maybe maybe I would talk about tool albums.

1254
01:04:30,040 --> 01:04:33,960
Speaker 2: I don't know, maybe it would be uh oh. I

1255
01:04:34,160 --> 01:04:36,880
Speaker 2: get fascinated by weird stuff too these days, Like I'm

1256
01:04:37,320 --> 01:04:42,600
Speaker 2: currently I'm really fascinated by Egypt Domania with recording artists,

1257
01:04:42,680 --> 01:04:48,600
Speaker 2: so you know, people like Egyptian Lover the you know,

1258
01:04:48,640 --> 01:04:51,480
Speaker 2: the early hip hop artist whose whole deal is that

1259
01:04:51,520 --> 01:04:54,880
Speaker 2: he's an actual pharaoh.

1260
01:04:54,960 --> 01:04:56,960
Speaker 4: That these are the kind of things we will dive

1261
01:04:57,200 --> 01:05:00,480
Speaker 4: into the deepest minutia of if you're a fan. So yeah,

1262
01:05:00,560 --> 01:05:02,760
Speaker 4: check out Record Store Society. It's here on the iHeart

1263
01:05:02,800 --> 01:05:06,240
Speaker 4: Network and it comes out today. The first two episodes

1264
01:05:06,240 --> 01:05:08,600
Speaker 4: are already live, and we have new episodes every Friday,

1265
01:05:08,720 --> 01:05:09,439
Speaker 4: make sure you check.

1266
01:05:09,360 --> 01:05:12,400
Speaker 3: It out, all right, I'm so excited. Don't miss it, folks.

1267
01:05:13,640 --> 01:05:15,800
Speaker 2: All right, well, we're going to close it out there. Obviously,

1268
01:05:15,880 --> 01:05:19,240
Speaker 2: we'd love to hear from everybody about this film, about

1269
01:05:19,280 --> 01:05:21,520
Speaker 2: some of the other films that we briefly mentioned, other

1270
01:05:21,600 --> 01:05:24,919
Speaker 2: cyber panic films, films that you think we should watch

1271
01:05:24,960 --> 01:05:29,080
Speaker 2: in the future. Yeah, everything's up for grabs. You have

1272
01:05:29,200 --> 01:05:31,600
Speaker 2: some ideas about the deeper thoughts we got into here,

1273
01:05:31,600 --> 01:05:34,840
Speaker 2: some of the actors and filmmakers that we mentioned. Either way,

1274
01:05:34,880 --> 01:05:37,000
Speaker 2: we'd love to hear from you. In the meantime, if

1275
01:05:37,040 --> 01:05:39,920
Speaker 2: you want to check out other episodes of Weird House Cinema,

1276
01:05:39,960 --> 01:05:42,680
Speaker 2: this is going to come out every Friday in the

1277
01:05:42,720 --> 01:05:46,280
Speaker 2: Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast feed. Tuesdays and Thursdays

1278
01:05:46,320 --> 01:05:50,080
Speaker 2: will remain core science and culture episodes of Stuff to

1279
01:05:50,080 --> 01:05:52,800
Speaker 2: Blow Your Mind. But Friday Friday is the day where

1280
01:05:52,840 --> 01:05:56,360
Speaker 2: we get to celebrate weird films such as this one.

1281
01:05:56,560 --> 01:05:59,040
Speaker 3: It is when our souls go online.

1282
01:05:59,640 --> 01:06:04,080
Speaker 2: Yes, oh yeah, and of course rate review subscribe all

1283
01:06:04,080 --> 01:06:05,760
Speaker 2: that stuff right.

1284
01:06:06,480 --> 01:06:09,000
Speaker 3: Huge, Thanks as always to our excellent audio producer Seth

1285
01:06:09,080 --> 01:06:11,360
Speaker 3: Nicholas Johnson. If you would like to get in touch

1286
01:06:11,400 --> 01:06:13,560
Speaker 3: with us with feedback on this episode or any other,

1287
01:06:13,920 --> 01:06:15,880
Speaker 3: to suggest a topic for the future, or just to

1288
01:06:15,920 --> 01:06:18,600
Speaker 3: say hi. You can email us at contact A's Stuff

1289
01:06:18,640 --> 01:06:27,160
Speaker 3: to Blow Your Mind dot com.

1290
01:06:27,360 --> 01:06:30,280
Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For

1291
01:06:30,360 --> 01:06:33,160
Speaker 1: more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

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Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.