1
00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:16,799
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Bombshell. Now in the last hours,

2
00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:22,079
Speaker 1: the prime and only suspect in the Idaho mass killing

3
00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:29,280
Speaker 1: a four beautiful young Idaho University students has waived extradition.

4
00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:32,560
Speaker 1: I mean, I see, Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank

5
00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:34,440
Speaker 1: you for being with us here at Fox Nation and

6
00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:39,239
Speaker 1: Serious XM one eleven. What happens now, Well, take a

7
00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:42,440
Speaker 1: listen to this. It is a quirk. Apparently it's not

8
00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:45,639
Speaker 1: in the norm of the states I'm familiar with that

9
00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:49,680
Speaker 1: Idaho does not release their probable cause after David in

10
00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:53,440
Speaker 1: support of their arrest warrant until after their defendant is

11
00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:57,920
Speaker 1: brought a return to that state. But having read those

12
00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:02,760
Speaker 1: documents and the seal after David's a probable cause, I

13
00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:06,440
Speaker 1: definitely believe that one of the main reasons the defendant

14
00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:09,760
Speaker 1: chose to wave extradition and hurry his return back to

15
00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:13,360
Speaker 1: Idaho was to need to know what was in those documents.

16
00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:18,399
Speaker 1: So that's a significant development. You are hearing Mike Mancuso,

17
00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:21,720
Speaker 1: the first Assistant District attorneym Monroe County. That's in Pennsylvania

18
00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:26,759
Speaker 1: where Coburger has been held and we believe is being

19
00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:30,280
Speaker 1: held right now. The judge in this case, the judge,

20
00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:34,440
Speaker 1: as far as it goes in Pennsylvania, ordered the defendant

21
00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:38,000
Speaker 1: to be transported back to Idaho to be there within

22
00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:43,119
Speaker 1: ten days. Now, an extradition hearing is actually a very

23
00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:49,600
Speaker 1: simple matter, but Coburger waved his right to an extradition hearing,

24
00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:53,760
Speaker 1: and you're hearing Mancuso opine that it's because he has

25
00:01:53,880 --> 00:02:01,960
Speaker 1: an insatiable desire to know the intimate facts supporting his arrest.

26
00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:05,000
Speaker 1: What more do we know about the extradition Take a

27
00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:08,440
Speaker 1: listen to our friends at Inside Edition. Brian Coburger, accused

28
00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:13,320
Speaker 1: of slaughtering before Idaho University students, appears in court in shackles.

29
00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:17,200
Speaker 1: His mother and sister arrived for the brief hearing arm

30
00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:21,160
Speaker 1: in arm, their faces mask. His father, also wearing a mask,

31
00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:24,720
Speaker 1: was a few steps behind them. When Brian Coburger entered

32
00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:27,919
Speaker 1: the courtroom here in Pennsylvania, his eyes went directly to

33
00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:31,160
Speaker 1: his family members seated in the front row, Dad, mom,

34
00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:35,239
Speaker 1: and two sisters, all holding tissues. Coburger listened intently to

35
00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:39,120
Speaker 1: the judge, even responding verbally with answers like yes, I

36
00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:42,440
Speaker 1: have yes, I understand now. When he was led out

37
00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:44,920
Speaker 1: of the courtroom, he did look back at his family

38
00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:48,200
Speaker 1: and now the words I love you. We also know

39
00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:52,280
Speaker 1: that the judge specifically asked him in court is he

40
00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:57,680
Speaker 1: mentally competent to waive the extradition hearing? And he answered yes,

41
00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:01,440
Speaker 1: I am. But I've heard from a different source that

42
00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:06,680
Speaker 1: his lawyer there in Pennsylvania also ordered a psychological exam.

43
00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:09,639
Speaker 1: Now what does that mean? Does that makes sense? Does

44
00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:12,680
Speaker 1: that jibe that he's saying, yes, I'm mentally competent to

45
00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:17,600
Speaker 1: wave extradition while his lawyer is filing a psychological exam request. No,

46
00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:21,000
Speaker 1: it is an inconsistent But guess what it doesn't have

47
00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:25,440
Speaker 1: to be. This judge, Judge Margherita Worthington, I got to

48
00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:29,400
Speaker 1: hand it to her, was very succinct, not to the

49
00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:32,480
Speaker 1: point of being kurt, but succinct and by the book.

50
00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:35,160
Speaker 1: And that is what we need right now. And I'll

51
00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:39,640
Speaker 1: tell you why this guy is on his way to

52
00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:44,160
Speaker 1: a phud in criminology. He probably thinks he knows it all.

53
00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:47,520
Speaker 1: He has studied criminal procedure, He knows a lot about

54
00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:51,920
Speaker 1: the system. And I guarantee you he has a writing

55
00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:54,920
Speaker 1: it down somewhere and giving it to his lawyers every

56
00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:59,800
Speaker 1: time he thinks there has been some sort of constitutional error,

57
00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:03,080
Speaker 1: such as he didn't get his miranda rights, or he

58
00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:05,400
Speaker 1: wasn't given a lawyer immediately when he asked for one.

59
00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:08,640
Speaker 1: It could be any number of things. That's just hypothetical,

60
00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:12,440
Speaker 1: but I guarantee you the state, and I mean the

61
00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:17,320
Speaker 1: transporters that carry him to Idaho, the jail guards, the judge,

62
00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:21,839
Speaker 1: the lawyers better cross theorities and dot their eyes because

63
00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:26,279
Speaker 1: this guy is watching everything with me and All Star panel.

64
00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:29,680
Speaker 1: To make sense of what we know right now, first,

65
00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:32,120
Speaker 1: I want to go straight out to the director and

66
00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:35,920
Speaker 1: founder of the Cold Case Research Institute, forensic expert and

67
00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:40,000
Speaker 1: currently on the beat. That's right, she's current law enforcement.

68
00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:44,279
Speaker 1: You can find her at Coldcase crimes dot org. Cheryl McCollum. Okay,

69
00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:47,880
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum. The whole time you and I were trying

70
00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:51,840
Speaker 1: to figure out who is the killer, did you expect

71
00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:58,680
Speaker 1: anybody like Brian Christian co Burger. No. I expected it

72
00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:02,760
Speaker 1: to be somebody very close in the neighborhood, so to speak.

73
00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:05,720
Speaker 1: I thought he would be within fifteen miles. I thought

74
00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:08,880
Speaker 1: he would know the area. I still believe it was targeted.

75
00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:12,279
Speaker 1: I think he knew these folks somehow, and I thought

76
00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:15,560
Speaker 1: it was somebody very bright, but I had no idea

77
00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:18,440
Speaker 1: that it was going to be a PhD student who

78
00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:22,560
Speaker 1: had been studying different killers. Hey Cheryl, guys, let me

79
00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:27,760
Speaker 1: also remind you Cheryl McCollum just launched an incredible knew

80
00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:31,159
Speaker 1: podcast that I love, even though I haven't been formally

81
00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:36,800
Speaker 1: invited to be on yet. Zone seven. This is an

82
00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:43,040
Speaker 1: incredible inside look at what law enforcement does every single day,

83
00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:46,120
Speaker 1: the things that all the things that go behind what

84
00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:48,960
Speaker 1: we have right here. And I'm going to throw this

85
00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:52,039
Speaker 1: out to Dell Carson and remember everybody again, I don't

86
00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:54,120
Speaker 1: know why I have to keep telling you guys, we're

87
00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:57,680
Speaker 1: not having high tea at winds Or Tassel with King Charles. Okay,

88
00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:01,200
Speaker 1: jump in for Pete's sake if you have an idea,

89
00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:04,960
Speaker 1: because a lot of the ideas that we generated right here,

90
00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:07,680
Speaker 1: I've seen police dealing. I certainly don't take credit for

91
00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:11,360
Speaker 1: what they're doing, but jump in, and you never know,

92
00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:18,320
Speaker 1: no prosecutor, no cop can't do with a little help.

93
00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:22,240
Speaker 1: So to del Carson joined me, high profile lawyer out

94
00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:24,280
Speaker 1: of jacksonal And this is what I really like about him.

95
00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:28,400
Speaker 1: Former FBI Asian and former cop in Miami Dade, and

96
00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:31,440
Speaker 1: I'd like to say there's certainly no lack of business there.

97
00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:34,240
Speaker 1: So he's got plenty of war stories, which right now

98
00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:36,520
Speaker 1: I'm not interested in. Del Carson, I mentioned it in

99
00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:41,960
Speaker 1: Brian Christian co Burger. You just heard Cheryl McComb say, well,

100
00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:43,400
Speaker 1: I thought he was this, I thought it was that,

101
00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:46,960
Speaker 1: but I didn't expect Brian Coburger. Everything she said describes

102
00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:50,760
Speaker 1: Brian Coburger. I think it is his demeanor and his

103
00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:54,920
Speaker 1: appearance as something we really didn't expect. He's a hulking

104
00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:59,560
Speaker 1: six foot tall, but he's a wraith and very very thin,

105
00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:04,200
Speaker 1: I guess due to is a strict vegan diet. But

106
00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:11,680
Speaker 1: he's very pale. He's almost emaciated looking, and he has

107
00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:15,680
Speaker 1: a very intense stare which I would not like to

108
00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:18,360
Speaker 1: see looking through my bedroom wind. I can just tell

109
00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:22,960
Speaker 1: you that much. But she also Cheryl McCollum also described

110
00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:26,560
Speaker 1: someone that was brilliant. I don't know how brilliant he was,

111
00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:30,680
Speaker 1: but that's what that's what his teachers say. Can I

112
00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:33,080
Speaker 1: tell you something, Delle Carson, which you probably already know.

113
00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:37,800
Speaker 1: When you get a PhD. Of course you have as

114
00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:43,320
Speaker 1: yours doctrine. But when I went on to get lll M.

115
00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:48,680
Speaker 1: After my law degree, you get to steer your studies

116
00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:51,720
Speaker 1: and right, and just got Morgan and I've talked about

117
00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:55,800
Speaker 1: this a little bit. I got my degree, my additional

118
00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:59,600
Speaker 1: degree in constitutional and criminal law, and I studied all

119
00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:03,720
Speaker 1: things criminal from the perspective of how do you prosecute

120
00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:08,840
Speaker 1: and catch and build all sorts of criminal cases? Rico, video, gambling,

121
00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:16,960
Speaker 1: you name it. This guy Deale Carson picked interviewing and

122
00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:23,320
Speaker 1: questioning violent felons with questions like, what were you thinking

123
00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:27,360
Speaker 1: at the time you killed her? I was going through

124
00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:30,560
Speaker 1: your mind? What about it? Delle Carson? Well, I mean

125
00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:33,320
Speaker 1: this is sort of like Bundy in many ways, and

126
00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:36,760
Speaker 1: they have that fixed stare, that Bundy head that Wayne

127
00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:41,440
Speaker 1: Williams had, and they simply are thinking that they know

128
00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:45,320
Speaker 1: more than everybody else, which is typical of a sociopath

129
00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:49,120
Speaker 1: or a narcissist in the extreme. And that seems to

130
00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:52,200
Speaker 1: be where he's coming from, which means that he doesn't

131
00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:55,400
Speaker 1: have any compassion for anybody, and in that light, it

132
00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:59,720
Speaker 1: makes it easy or to kill somebody. And I am

133
00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:03,200
Speaker 1: always of the belief that he's doing this because very

134
00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:08,040
Speaker 1: few people who are at that level of education also

135
00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:12,080
Speaker 1: have committed the crimes, and if he were successful at this,

136
00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:15,600
Speaker 1: he'd have a leg up over everybody else who discusses this.

137
00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:20,679
Speaker 1: We had a police professor at University of Florida who

138
00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:23,440
Speaker 1: came and worked for the sheriff's office in Jacksonville and

139
00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:26,600
Speaker 1: then wrote a book about it because he had actual,

140
00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:31,160
Speaker 1: not just academic, but actual experience about what law enforcement

141
00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:33,760
Speaker 1: officers went through. And it wouldn't surprise me in the

142
00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:37,080
Speaker 1: least if he's not headed the same direction, except he's

143
00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:39,680
Speaker 1: not finding out what cops are going through. He's finding

144
00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:44,439
Speaker 1: out the emotions and the thinking and decision making violent

145
00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:47,120
Speaker 1: felons like murderers and rapists at the time they commit

146
00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:51,400
Speaker 1: the crime. Jackie, did I just actually say Brian Christian

147
00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:55,800
Speaker 1: co Barker because this Brian Christopher Coburger, I guess thinking

148
00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:57,520
Speaker 1: about this guy, Mayson want to say a prayer in

149
00:09:57,559 --> 00:10:03,080
Speaker 1: the back of my head, it's Brian Christopher Coburger, Okay,

150
00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:08,120
Speaker 1: speaking of his very bizarre research take a less an

151
00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:10,840
Speaker 1: hour cut to sixty in Our Friends at Fox thirteen,

152
00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:13,640
Speaker 1: Ghosh is part of the computer science department. He says,

153
00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:16,559
Speaker 1: Coburger talk to him about his studies in the Criminology

154
00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:21,520
Speaker 1: and Criminal Justice Department said, I think he said like

155
00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:24,400
Speaker 1: he does it experimentally, goes and talk to people. Ghost

156
00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:28,120
Speaker 1: believes Coburger lived alone. The Associated Press also reports that

157
00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:31,640
Speaker 1: he graduated from Northampton Community College in Pennsylvania, with a

158
00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:34,640
Speaker 1: spokesperson from the college saying that he received an Associate

159
00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:38,240
Speaker 1: of Arts degree in psychology in twenty eighteen. Coburger's apartment

160
00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:40,560
Speaker 1: is only about a fifteen minute drive from the rental

161
00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:42,920
Speaker 1: home where the four students were stabbed to death. I'm

162
00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:44,880
Speaker 1: going to go to Joe Scott, but quickly I want

163
00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:48,040
Speaker 1: to circle back to Cheryl McCollum, and Karen started joining me.

164
00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:51,360
Speaker 1: I hope you're percolating on everything you're hearing. Cheryl McCollum,

165
00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:55,199
Speaker 1: I seem to recall that on one or two occasions

166
00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:59,959
Speaker 1: you were in and out of the pre trial negotiation

167
00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:03,920
Speaker 1: room when we would have an arrangement calendar of you know,

168
00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:07,880
Speaker 1: one hundred hundred and fifty people, all fellows. Absolutely, I

169
00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:10,920
Speaker 1: had a particular judge, It's Judge Luther Alberson. When the

170
00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:15,760
Speaker 1: best judges I ever practiced in front of I, my investigator,

171
00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:19,440
Speaker 1: and the defense attorney for each defendant would come into

172
00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:22,360
Speaker 1: the room, and the defendant, even the jail of defendants

173
00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:24,920
Speaker 1: to be brought over, and they would sit an initial

174
00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:28,520
Speaker 1: pre trial negotiation where I would say, either there's not

175
00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:30,400
Speaker 1: going to be a deal, this guy's going to trial,

176
00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:34,880
Speaker 1: or I would give a you know, plea negotiation. Can

177
00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:39,160
Speaker 1: I tell you something I never once dealing with child

178
00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:48,160
Speaker 1: rapist murderers, burglars killers, I never once thought to ask,

179
00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:53,640
Speaker 1: at the moment you stabbed her in the torso, what

180
00:11:53,679 --> 00:12:00,240
Speaker 1: were you feeling? That is best accords? What is that? Well,

181
00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:04,079
Speaker 1: it's probably out of my wheelhouse, out of your league.

182
00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:07,240
Speaker 1: But in all those times inside of my league, all right,

183
00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:09,800
Speaker 1: I'm not a shriek. But do you remember all those

184
00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:15,400
Speaker 1: descendants who would think, hey, Jackie, when you rate that

185
00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:20,440
Speaker 1: little kid, what were you thinking? Oh? Hell no, I

186
00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:22,680
Speaker 1: would say something like, you make me sit, get the

187
00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:24,800
Speaker 1: hell out of this room. You're going down for a

188
00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:28,840
Speaker 1: live trailer, please don't care. That would be something like

189
00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:32,040
Speaker 1: what I would want to say. I did say, go ahead. Well,

190
00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:34,199
Speaker 1: from week one I said this guy was going to

191
00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:37,880
Speaker 1: have some bundy, you know, ask tendencies to him. Oh oh,

192
00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:40,680
Speaker 1: there goes Chary McCollum's own seven patter herself on the back.

193
00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:43,400
Speaker 1: Go on, Cheryl, I'm just trying to lay it out

194
00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:47,400
Speaker 1: for people. Wow, I'm asked killing across from fraternity row.

195
00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:51,599
Speaker 1: That was a tough stretch. Go ahead, Nope, that's not it.

196
00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:54,840
Speaker 1: Ted Bundy not only studied the law, which you know,

197
00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:58,839
Speaker 1: but he also volunteered at a rape crisis center. So

198
00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:03,880
Speaker 1: for him, that was porn. He got awful that this

199
00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:07,280
Speaker 1: guy did the same thing. He's studying criminology, so he's

200
00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:10,000
Speaker 1: studying how do I get away with this? But it's

201
00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:12,760
Speaker 1: more than that for him. He wants to know how

202
00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:17,360
Speaker 1: other criminals felt during the crime. And that's what I'm

203
00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:19,640
Speaker 1: telling you. You can wrap this whole thing up with

204
00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:23,160
Speaker 1: a bow. It's obvious to me exactly why he would

205
00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:25,720
Speaker 1: want to study what he did and why he would

206
00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:28,240
Speaker 1: want to talk to criminals and non victim to Karen

207
00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:31,200
Speaker 1: start and joining me in renowned New York psychologists joining

208
00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:33,200
Speaker 1: us out of Manhattan. You can find her at Karen

209
00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:35,480
Speaker 1: Stark dot com. And I always tell you because it's

210
00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:37,200
Speaker 1: kind of hard to find unless she wants to do

211
00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:40,719
Speaker 1: a name change. It's Karen with a C C R

212
00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:44,680
Speaker 1: Y M. Karen Stark. What is this? Because you know

213
00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:48,000
Speaker 1: how I always say this, and you would laugh down

214
00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:50,640
Speaker 1: your intellectual snoop when we were at Court TV together,

215
00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:53,920
Speaker 1: when I would say, hey, if the devil shows up

216
00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:56,680
Speaker 1: at the front door, don't invite him in for dinner.

217
00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:00,160
Speaker 1: He might just unpack his bag and stay overnight. Then

218
00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:01,600
Speaker 1: you won't be able to get rid of them. In

219
00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:06,079
Speaker 1: other words, when you flirt with something you know is wrong,

220
00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:11,280
Speaker 1: I don't know, like pornography or heroin, something you know

221
00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:15,320
Speaker 1: is going to destroy you or could destroy you, why

222
00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:19,120
Speaker 1: flirt with it? Why entertain it? Why invited to stick around?

223
00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:22,400
Speaker 1: But that's exactly what he did. He did not only

224
00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:27,840
Speaker 1: major in criminology, which thank god people do major in criminology,

225
00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:31,880
Speaker 1: but he became intimately obsessed with it and facilitated his

226
00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:37,000
Speaker 1: own sick interest in it. Karen, I read the whole thing, Nancy,

227
00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:42,520
Speaker 1: and it was really chilling because his questions were that specific.

228
00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:47,280
Speaker 1: And I really do agree with Sarah that he knew

229
00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:50,640
Speaker 1: exactly why he wanted to do it. This guy was

230
00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:55,160
Speaker 1: getting very excited. He got off on reading all of this.

231
00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:58,280
Speaker 1: There's no doubt about it. He wanted to know what

232
00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:02,120
Speaker 1: extempt because he was putting himself in that place. I

233
00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:05,280
Speaker 1: also feel like in some ways he was reversing and

234
00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:09,480
Speaker 1: getting ready to kill if he hadn't already killed and

235
00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:13,360
Speaker 1: wanted to relive it. So, I mean, this is just

236
00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:18,560
Speaker 1: so incredible that somebody who studied it to that degree.

237
00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:22,000
Speaker 1: It's even more than bunding because he was living his

238
00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:26,640
Speaker 1: life in those questions. That was his life. He wanted

239
00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:29,560
Speaker 1: to know what went on with these people because he

240
00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:32,440
Speaker 1: was one of them. I completely apologize for saying you

241
00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:35,840
Speaker 1: look down your intellectual snoot at me. That was not

242
00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:39,240
Speaker 1: a very nice way of describing and then you and

243
00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:46,280
Speaker 1: then you just explained it so beautifully and actually with poignance.

244
00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:51,640
Speaker 1: I mean, okay, let's go with a harsh reality. Just

245
00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:54,920
Speaker 1: got Morgan joining me. I really, Josh, who got so

246
00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:57,720
Speaker 1: many awesome guests. I haven't even gotten to ccmore A

247
00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:02,080
Speaker 1: brilliant Now, that's what brilliance really is. Chris McDonough, Dave

248
00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:04,360
Speaker 1: mack joining me. But I'm going as fast as a

249
00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:08,320
Speaker 1: ken Guys. Joseph Scott Morgan is not only professor forensics

250
00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:11,800
Speaker 1: at Jackson State University, he's the author of Blood Beneath

251
00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:14,840
Speaker 1: My Feet, and now he's a star of another hit series,

252
00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:17,200
Speaker 1: Body Backs with Joe Scott Morgan. I mean you can

253
00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:20,120
Speaker 1: catch him on Doctor Field coming up soon, I guess

254
00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:22,520
Speaker 1: on Idaho. It's what we're talking going to be talking about.

255
00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:29,560
Speaker 1: Joe Scott. Okay, this guy obviously I hate to even

256
00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:34,440
Speaker 1: say his name, Coburger, because that's going to be a

257
00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:36,640
Speaker 1: name we're gonna remember forever, Joe Scott, just like we

258
00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:41,080
Speaker 1: talk about Bundy and BTK and all the others, Jack

259
00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:43,960
Speaker 1: the Ripper, it just goes on and on Israel Keys.

260
00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:49,720
Speaker 1: It's like conjuring up a horrible, horrible vision. And no

261
00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:53,560
Speaker 1: for everybody online that goes, wow, you're convicting convicting him

262
00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:56,240
Speaker 1: before the trunk, No, knot. I'm talking about the evidence

263
00:16:56,280 --> 00:17:00,080
Speaker 1: that's already out there. We may be very surprised and

264
00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:02,760
Speaker 1: find out the DNA doesn't match. We don't know what's

265
00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:04,720
Speaker 1: going to happen. This is what we know right now.

266
00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:15,439
Speaker 1: A Fox Nation exclusive and international pop star stripped of

267
00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:18,879
Speaker 1: human rights? How does that happen? Easier than you think.

268
00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:24,120
Speaker 1: Join us for a deep dive into Britney Spears's conservatorship Trapped,

269
00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:34,040
Speaker 1: streaming now on Fox Nation Crime Stories with Nancy Grace,

270
00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:44,080
Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan. I believe Coburger romanticized crime. He was

271
00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:48,800
Speaker 1: obsessed with criminals and what they do. And I say

272
00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:54,840
Speaker 1: this because I've had to force gerars to look at

273
00:17:54,960 --> 00:18:01,560
Speaker 1: the crime. And I remember one of the last he

274
00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:03,680
Speaker 1: was a serial killer, but we had him on one

275
00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:07,239
Speaker 1: crime for sure, so I tried him for that. And

276
00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:10,320
Speaker 1: there was an autopsy photo that had to be shown

277
00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:13,120
Speaker 1: to the jury so you could see the subdural in

278
00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:17,000
Speaker 1: other words, beneath the scalp bruising about how hard this

279
00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:19,919
Speaker 1: victim was hit in the head. And I'll stand the

280
00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:23,359
Speaker 1: court was a slide show. Joe Scott and I walked

281
00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:25,320
Speaker 1: in the dark up to the screen and Night was

282
00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:29,280
Speaker 1: touching it, showing the jury various points to look at,

283
00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:34,080
Speaker 1: and I thought, man, I'm gonna have to stop doing this,

284
00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:38,840
Speaker 1: because it was just so upsetting when you see the

285
00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:47,320
Speaker 1: reality of murder as opposed to their romantization of murder

286
00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:51,440
Speaker 1: like you see on TV or and Oh how I

287
00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:56,280
Speaker 1: Love Angela Lansbury, but murder she wrote, or something like that,

288
00:18:56,440 --> 00:19:01,840
Speaker 1: even even CSI, even all the brittin box murder mysteries,

289
00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:06,919
Speaker 1: you don't really see the reality of what murder is

290
00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:15,200
Speaker 1: much less for vibrant, beautiful, full of life hopes dreams

291
00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:20,920
Speaker 1: Idaho University students. But for a moment, Joe Scott, take

292
00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:24,919
Speaker 1: me there to the darkness of what this murder scene

293
00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:30,440
Speaker 1: really was at the hands according to police, of Brian

294
00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:37,760
Speaker 1: Christopher to murder in those two areas, those two bedrooms,

295
00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:43,520
Speaker 1: this environment would have been a bloodbath. Just to understand

296
00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:47,680
Speaker 1: that anytime an edged weapon is used and it is

297
00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:53,040
Speaker 1: introduced into an individual's body over and over and over again,

298
00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:59,120
Speaker 1: that area that they're laying it and I would assume

299
00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:02,560
Speaker 1: that at this point I don't know, but in these

300
00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:06,199
Speaker 1: two beds, it would have just been super saturated in blood.

301
00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:10,679
Speaker 1: And I you know, when you brought up that visual

302
00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:13,520
Speaker 1: of going in the courtroom and touching those those images

303
00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:17,960
Speaker 1: on the display. Defense attorneys many times will say, well,

304
00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:23,320
Speaker 1: this is prejudicial counter I count. I counter that with this.

305
00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:27,280
Speaker 1: This is the last time that these victims will have

306
00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:31,280
Speaker 1: an opportunity to speak, and they speak through these images.

307
00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:35,240
Speaker 1: And let me tell you something, when those images are

308
00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:39,040
Speaker 1: flashed at a trial in the future, that will be

309
00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:42,800
Speaker 1: them speaking this is what was done to me, and

310
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:46,520
Speaker 1: whoever did this would have been saturated in blood as well,

311
00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:50,760
Speaker 1: and there will be a super silent moment in the courtroom,

312
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:55,080
Speaker 1: you've probably experienced that, and that will happen, and that

313
00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:57,240
Speaker 1: will be the dead speaking at that point in time.

314
00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:02,040
Speaker 1: And another thing, I think practically everybody on this panel

315
00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:07,560
Speaker 1: except maybe Karen, has been on a murder scene, an

316
00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:12,120
Speaker 1: actual murder scene, and it's nothing like what you see

317
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:15,600
Speaker 1: on TV or movies. It is. I mean, I've seen

318
00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:19,520
Speaker 1: veteran police turn around and I could hear them throw

319
00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:23,240
Speaker 1: up outside. That's not just in the movies. That's real.

320
00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:26,600
Speaker 1: I mean, if you ever smell something that made you sick,

321
00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:32,960
Speaker 1: just a smells just like, oh the blood, as Joe

322
00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:38,879
Speaker 1: Scott just says, as of consistency, if when you make jello,

323
00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:43,000
Speaker 1: when you're first making it and you're boiling it, it's

324
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:47,639
Speaker 1: thinner and then it turns gelatinous. Depending on what time

325
00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:50,640
Speaker 1: you get to the murder scene, it could be like

326
00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:57,120
Speaker 1: dry gelatinous jello, hair pulled out of the victim's head,

327
00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:02,160
Speaker 1: caught in the blood. Just you know, I really don't

328
00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:04,160
Speaker 1: want to describe it. If I had to try this case,

329
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:07,359
Speaker 1: I would describe it. But I think that's you just

330
00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:10,600
Speaker 1: got no, it's me Dale, jump in, Dale. I'm just

331
00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:14,919
Speaker 1: to smell because after you're through cleaning up a scene

332
00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:17,520
Speaker 1: like that, analyzing it. Then you got to get in

333
00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:20,960
Speaker 1: a car and ride around as a partner to your

334
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:25,280
Speaker 1: other investigator and not be sick for an entire day.

335
00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:29,040
Speaker 1: And no matter how many times I would, I'd leave

336
00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:31,840
Speaker 1: a crime scene and I'd have to go back to

337
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:37,000
Speaker 1: the courthouse and I'd go in a lady's bathroom, and

338
00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:39,560
Speaker 1: I remember they had at the time that you hit

339
00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:44,639
Speaker 1: the dispenser and a powder comes out, not liquid soap,

340
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:47,320
Speaker 1: and I would scrub and scrub it. I'd try to

341
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:50,520
Speaker 1: roll up my sleeves on my dress. At that time,

342
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:53,200
Speaker 1: women did not wear, believe it or not, pants to court,

343
00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:57,480
Speaker 1: and I would just wash because I'd feel like I

344
00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:01,000
Speaker 1: had some type of blood spatter or something on me.

345
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:05,439
Speaker 1: Chris mcdonnah is joining us. Of course, cecmore no offense

346
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 1: to the other guest, but I'm saying the best for

347
00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:10,360
Speaker 1: last today Ceci hold On. Ceci is joining me chief

348
00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:15,120
Speaker 1: genetic genealogist, appearing by Nano Lambs, and she's brilliant. Chris

349
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:20,120
Speaker 1: mcdonnah is joining me, Director Cold Case Foundation, former homicide detective.

350
00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:24,000
Speaker 1: He's worked over three hundred homicides and I found him

351
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:28,719
Speaker 1: in the interview room on a YouTube channel. Chris, you

352
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:32,840
Speaker 1: have seen in the home. You heard what Joe Scott said.

353
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,240
Speaker 1: I want to hear your thoughts about how this guy

354
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:42,880
Speaker 1: was so obsessed with violent crime. I mean, I'm obsessed

355
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:48,000
Speaker 1: with fighting crime. I'm not obsessed with the thinking a

356
00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 1: violent offender, what he was thinking when he raped a

357
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:54,440
Speaker 1: child or he murdered somebody with a knife. I don't

358
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:56,879
Speaker 1: want to go in that head. I don't want that

359
00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:59,560
Speaker 1: stuck in my head. That's why the state doesn't have

360
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:02,040
Speaker 1: to prove motive. But I want to hear you have

361
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:05,840
Speaker 1: viewed the home in the area. I want to hear

362
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,840
Speaker 1: your thoughts as we try to reconcile what we know

363
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 1: to be true of the crime scene and his obvious

364
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:18,160
Speaker 1: rapture with crime. Yeah, Nancy, I mean, now that we're

365
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:24,040
Speaker 1: learning a lot more about this individual, I think one

366
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:26,919
Speaker 1: of the thoughts that I have, and that comes to

367
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:30,320
Speaker 1: me and I think everybody on this panel would agree,

368
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:39,399
Speaker 1: is the probably the deafening silence after the homicides, knowing

369
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:44,920
Speaker 1: also though there were two other victims spared. But if

370
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 1: we correlate, remember always every behavior has a purpose, and

371
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 1: for this guy, that behavior started early with those questions

372
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 1: in his educ occasional studies, and I think the crime

373
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:11,240
Speaker 1: scene would reflect those questions because what he was trying

374
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:16,240
Speaker 1: to do, it appears, is, you know, narrow the scope

375
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:23,359
Speaker 1: of error to his advantage. And so what I come

376
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:27,680
Speaker 1: away with knowing the neighborhood is at this point, I

377
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:32,240
Speaker 1: think there is a lot of full court press technical

378
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 1: pressure being applied in the investigation. I think the investigation

379
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:43,159
Speaker 1: is compressing. What does that mean, the investigations compressing? Yeah, Nancy, So,

380
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 1: I think what happens is, as we all have experienced,

381
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:51,720
Speaker 1: is in something this high profile, the investigators compressed the

382
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:56,360
Speaker 1: investigation in meaning they tighten it up a little bit

383
00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:01,920
Speaker 1: quicker because now you have defense involved, you have defense investigators,

384
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:04,120
Speaker 1: and they're going to go back and circle back through

385
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:08,360
Speaker 1: your witnesses, your evidence, your scene. And so what they're

386
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 1: going to do as an investigative team is keep moving

387
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:18,480
Speaker 1: forward on the technical data side, quickly the car, the phones,

388
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:23,199
Speaker 1: any type of analysis that's going to put him in

389
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 1: what we would call contact points with these victims thore victimology. Okay,

390
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 1: can I follow up on what you just said. I

391
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:35,359
Speaker 1: really believe that they will and I'm referring to police

392
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,160
Speaker 1: law enforcement to be the FBI. I don't know which

393
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:41,120
Speaker 1: law enforcement armor is going to be. I really believe

394
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 1: that they are going to place the defendant Coburger around

395
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 1: in and around the scene on multiple occasions, showing that

396
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:57,960
Speaker 1: he Coburger had stalked the victims, had spied on the victims,

397
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 1: had maybe looked in their win specifically for you, Chris mcgona,

398
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,240
Speaker 1: which again I just can't say how much I appreciated

399
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 1: your drive through you did on the interview room because

400
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 1: it showed me how and I want the listeners to

401
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 1: know they can see it too. How you go into

402
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,399
Speaker 1: the area of King Road where the victims live, You

403
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:26,879
Speaker 1: go up an incline and around and there is a

404
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 1: parking lot. There's no way out except the way you

405
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 1: came in. And that parking lot looks like it borders

406
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 1: on trees, but it's not very dense at all. You

407
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 1: can see from that parking lot straight in to the

408
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:45,960
Speaker 1: victim's house. How many times do you think k Burger

409
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:49,440
Speaker 1: sat up there and got down on those trees and

410
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:54,680
Speaker 1: looked at them. That's a chilling thought, it thought, because

411
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 1: when the girls looked out, Chris mcgunna, they just saw trees.

412
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 1: Because you remember they're in the light in the home.

413
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 1: They're looking out of the dark, and they think they

414
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 1: see trees. Have no idea that something like Coburger could

415
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:12,399
Speaker 1: be right there watching them change clothes, watching the girlfriend

416
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 1: and her boyfriend make out, watching God only knows what

417
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:19,680
Speaker 1: he could have been watching. A warning to all young

418
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 1: women in colleges, Nancy, can I jump in when you

419
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 1: leave King Road? One of his escape routes will take

420
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:31,200
Speaker 1: you right to that farm road and west Pullman. Wait, wait,

421
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:34,679
Speaker 1: oh wait, okay, yes, right kay. When he got the

422
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 1: ticket for no seatbelt right, what struck me about that?

423
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 1: It was after eleven o'clock at night where he got that.

424
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 1: Because if you start your day, you know, you put

425
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 1: your seat but only you start the car and you go.

426
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 1: But as you go in and out of your car,

427
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 1: running like quick errands, you might just jump back in

428
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 1: and don't put your seatbelt back on. That's what I

429
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 1: believe happened here. I believe there's a good chance he

430
00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 1: was a peeping tom at that moment, or up in

431
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 1: his urge area, you know, staring at them, skulk in them.

432
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:04,959
Speaker 1: And then when he got back in the car, he

433
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 1: just did not re engage his seat belt, and that's

434
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 1: why he was stopped right there at that first intersection. Guys,

435
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 1: I want you to take a listen to our cut

436
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:17,200
Speaker 1: two two to our friends at ABC, recent students of

437
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 1: his at Washington State University speaking out one thing. His

438
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 1: appearance changed around the time the murders took place. He

439
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:27,840
Speaker 1: looked a little bit more disheveled. He had like some

440
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 1: stubble coming on, and his hair was a little, you know,

441
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 1: messed up or whatever. I remember seeing him and thinking like,

442
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 1: oh man, you know, finals must be really getting back.

443
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 1: Twenty eight year old Coburger remained a teacher's assistant working

444
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 1: towards his criminology PhD until the end of the semester

445
00:29:55,480 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 1: Prime Stories with Nancy Grace, recent students of his at

446
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 1: Washington State University speaking out one thing his appearance changed

447
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:10,720
Speaker 1: around the time the murders took place. He looked a

448
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:13,719
Speaker 1: little bit more disheveled. He had like some stubble coming on,

449
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:15,239
Speaker 1: and his hair was a little, you know, messed up

450
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 1: or whatever. I remember seeing him and thinking like, oh man,

451
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:20,239
Speaker 1: you know, finals must be really getting bad. Twenty eight

452
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 1: year old Coburger remained a teacher's assistant working towards his

453
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 1: Criminology PhD until the end of the semester, looking disheveled

454
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 1: and quote messed up following the murders. Now, other accounts

455
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:38,280
Speaker 1: are that he would speak in a very obtuse way

456
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 1: in court, I mean, excuse me in class, but then

457
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 1: whenever the issue of the Idaho slayings came up, he

458
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 1: would quote dead pain quiet. We also know that he

459
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 1: had been a very strict greater as a TA teaching assistant.

460
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 1: In fact, one of the professors had made a joke, Hey,

461
00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:02,400
Speaker 1: go easy on him, Brian in his grating. But after

462
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 1: the murders he was very laxa days ago and gave

463
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 1: a lot of like a B plus B plus he's

464
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 1: not really reading the papers in depth anymore. Disheveled, deadpan.

465
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 1: I mean, have you asked anybody about the Idaho murders

466
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 1: and they don't have an opinion or a question? A

467
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 1: lot of them are off the wall, A lot of

468
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 1: them make a lot of sense. A lot of the

469
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 1: ones that are off the wall actually raise really good questions.

470
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 1: I learned a lot by looking at our social media

471
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 1: questions theories. Who is that Dale? Yeah, spending off on

472
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 1: what magic Cheryl said you know, another reason to not

473
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 1: have your seatbelt on is because it's more important to

474
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:53,600
Speaker 1: pull your pants up. Okay, yeah, only you and Jackie

475
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 1: had thought of that. I'm not going to question why,

476
00:31:56,600 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 1: but enter cc more. Oh, oh, one more thing I

477
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 1: want you to know tip cut two nineteen. Our friends

478
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 1: at Fox and Friends listen to this. It sounds to

479
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 1: me that the defense lawyers are doing a good job.

480
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 1: Remember they've already stopped the Idaho police from carrying down

481
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:20,560
Speaker 1: the crime scene so that they can have their own

482
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 1: experts come in and see if they agree or disagree

483
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 1: with the determinations of the FBI and the police at

484
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 1: the crime scene. That was our friend Michael Biden speaking

485
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 1: to our very dear friends over at Fox and Friends

486
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 1: in the morning, and he's right. The defense attorneys have

487
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:41,760
Speaker 1: asked to freeze the house so they can send their experts,

488
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 1: and I think their experts have already gone in. And

489
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:46,480
Speaker 1: you know what, I would have defense attorneys jump up

490
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 1: and go, we want to see the scene. Okay, good,

491
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:51,720
Speaker 1: I want you to see the scene. Go for it,

492
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 1: because I really believe that we're right and the scene

493
00:32:56,240 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 1: of the crime is only going to confirm what the

494
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 1: police think. But now as we go to cc more,

495
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 1: and remember everybody jump in with questions for CC including you,

496
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:11,719
Speaker 1: Dave Matt, Crime online dot Com investigator for with us.

497
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut two to one our

498
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 1: friend Kano Whitworth at ABC New details emerging about how

499
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 1: law enforcement tracked Coburger down, sources telling ABC News they

500
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 1: use public genealogy databases like those used to catch the

501
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 1: Golden State killer. You have DNA from a crime, but

502
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 1: you don't have a suspect. She's not in a database,

503
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 1: so you use public databases of genealogy looking for relatives.

504
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 1: Eventually you get it down to the point where you

505
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 1: can match the DNA potentially to your subspect Okay, ccmore

506
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 1: is with me again, Chief Genetic Genealogists piabon Nano Labs CC.

507
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:56,240
Speaker 1: A lot of people have been throwing around twenty three

508
00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 1: and ME. I don't know if that is the DNA

509
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:02,080
Speaker 1: database they use, but I do know that upon study

510
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 1: twenty three and ME is a private lab, they do

511
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:09,799
Speaker 1: not release that to COMPS. I don't think they can

512
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:14,360
Speaker 1: even subpoena that. But there is a catch to that

513
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,960
Speaker 1: with twenty three and me and I researched because hearing

514
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 1: everyone talking about that that was the database used, and

515
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:23,800
Speaker 1: I don't know that that's correct, but there is a

516
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:25,719
Speaker 1: way with twenty three and me you can look at

517
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 1: your ancestry, but also you can try to connect with

518
00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 1: people online. You can or you don't have to. So

519
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 1: I'm guessing if it was twenty three and me, and

520
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 1: that's a big if those relatives of co Burgers had

521
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:43,359
Speaker 1: put their DNA out there to see if there were

522
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:47,160
Speaker 1: any long lost relatives. I'm just trying to figure out

523
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 1: how this happened. I think it's highly unlikely that twenty

524
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:54,439
Speaker 1: three in me was used, and that's because they bar

525
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:59,120
Speaker 1: law enforcement, and they have publicly stated that they will

526
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:02,319
Speaker 1: protect the integrity of their database and they will fight

527
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 1: any efforts by law enforcement to get into it. And

528
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 1: they are worth a billion dollars that company. They have

529
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 1: deep pockets, they have a very robust legal team, and

530
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:16,840
Speaker 1: so it would have taken a fair amount of time

531
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,600
Speaker 1: for law enforcement to try to convince them to let

532
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 1: them use their database. And we know this happened very quickly,

533
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:26,640
Speaker 1: so it's very likely that they stuck to the two

534
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:30,920
Speaker 1: databases that do allow law enforcement JED match and Family

535
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:33,880
Speaker 1: Tree DNA yeah, hold on, hold on, remember say seymore,

536
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:37,759
Speaker 1: we're just mere mortals. Okay, So sometimes you've got to

537
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:40,719
Speaker 1: slow it down for us. We're drinking from the firehouser here.

538
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 1: So you're saying that there are public DNA database. It's

539
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:47,279
Speaker 1: like jed match, which I believe you've told me the

540
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:50,839
Speaker 1: past is geed match, correct. Okay. And there's another one

541
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:53,360
Speaker 1: you mentioned. What's the other one? Family Tree DNA is

542
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:56,480
Speaker 1: actually a private database. They were the first company to

543
00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 1: offer genetic genealogy to the public, to let you send

544
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,839
Speaker 1: in your DNA and get those results back. But they're

545
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:06,839
Speaker 1: the smallest of these companies, and they have family Tree,

546
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:09,920
Speaker 1: gotcha right, They don't have you know, they're not public.

547
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:12,719
Speaker 1: They don't have investors like we see with those other

548
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 1: big companies, so they can make a decision like they

549
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:18,359
Speaker 1: have here to support law enforcement. And to Loud, I'm

550
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 1: glad you're telling me this CC because nobody would use

551
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 1: a private lab again if they thought the cots could

552
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:30,239
Speaker 1: just like get your DNA all right. My son, my

553
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:34,840
Speaker 1: daughter is dying to get ancestry and did and my

554
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 1: son said, no, Mom, I don't want to be I

555
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:41,239
Speaker 1: don't want one of my relatives to be busted a

556
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 1: robbery or something. I'm like, what put that in your head?

557
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:48,040
Speaker 1: And he said you I'm okay, well guilty. But they

558
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:52,280
Speaker 1: did do it, and my husband got the horrible discovery

559
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:56,439
Speaker 1: that he's not from Scottish Royalty. Okay, so he's having

560
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:58,239
Speaker 1: to deal with the fact that he's Irish, just like me.

561
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:01,200
Speaker 1: A mut were MutS. Okay, go ahead, tell me what

562
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:03,640
Speaker 1: happened here? How did it work? Well? First of all,

563
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:06,360
Speaker 1: I want to say, people are talking about how smart

564
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:09,399
Speaker 1: Brian is, and I have to say, I just don't

565
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:12,960
Speaker 1: see how any student of forensic science or criminology did

566
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 1: not realize that it's virtually impossible to commit that type

567
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:20,920
Speaker 1: of violent intimate crime without leaving their DNA behind. He

568
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,480
Speaker 1: can't be that smart. And he must have heard of

569
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:26,719
Speaker 1: investigative genetic genealogy, so he knew he wasn't in the

570
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:30,360
Speaker 1: law enforcement databases, but he certainly should have known we

571
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 1: would track him from his relatives. Now, as I was saying,

572
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:37,120
Speaker 1: we're restricted to the two smallest databases, so we can

573
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 1: only compare unknown DNA like his in this case against

574
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 1: about two million profiles. But we only need distant cousins.

575
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:49,400
Speaker 1: Everybody has lots of distant cousins, so they were likely

576
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:52,960
Speaker 1: working with second, third, fourth, fifth cousins and beyond. Unless

577
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,840
Speaker 1: they got really lucky and there was a close relative

578
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:59,319
Speaker 1: in one of those two small databases. What they would

579
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:01,960
Speaker 1: have had to do it was build trees for probably

580
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:05,360
Speaker 1: days on end. People have this idea that one match

581
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:08,680
Speaker 1: solves these cases, and that's not how it works. We're

582
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:12,560
Speaker 1: typically working with a dozen matches, two dozen matches. You're

583
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:15,600
Speaker 1: building trees day and night, and particularly in a case

584
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:18,439
Speaker 1: like this where there was a real stretch. C see Moore.

585
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:21,280
Speaker 1: A while back. I was at Crime Con and Paul

586
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:24,799
Speaker 1: Holes was there, one of the mini detectives to help

587
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:28,160
Speaker 1: crack Golden State Killer. You know he's phenomenal, but I

588
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:31,800
Speaker 1: remember him putting up. He drew it. He drew it

589
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:34,080
Speaker 1: before him, Cheryl. I think you were there with us.

590
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 1: He drew the family tree that led to the Golden

591
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:41,360
Speaker 1: State Killer. It went back like ten or twelve. It

592
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:44,920
Speaker 1: was a whole poster. They were like right, a few

593
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:46,600
Speaker 1: people at the top, then it went out to like

594
00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:50,839
Speaker 1: eighteen or twenty. Then eighteen or twenty went down, down, down, down.

595
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 1: I can't even describe how how intricate that family tree

596
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:58,440
Speaker 1: was and how far back they had to go. When

597
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 1: you're saying building a family tree, I mean this goes

598
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:03,600
Speaker 1: all the way back to the Revolutionary War in some days,

599
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:06,320
Speaker 1: I mean, you have to go way back to find

600
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:08,320
Speaker 1: you know what, You can say it better than me.

601
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:10,480
Speaker 1: I know that. That's why I put experts on the stand.

602
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:13,840
Speaker 1: You explain it well. I can only imagine the pressure

603
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:16,960
Speaker 1: that the team felt that was building those trees. I'm

604
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:19,400
Speaker 1: sure they were doing it day and night, knowing that

605
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:23,240
Speaker 1: this perpetrator could strike again and there could be more victims.

606
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 1: So when you're building, it's almost like you're in this

607
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:28,719
Speaker 1: dark forest of trees and you're just looking for that

608
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:31,440
Speaker 1: little light at the end, trying to get out of

609
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:34,400
Speaker 1: that and see where you can make this all come together.

610
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:38,239
Speaker 1: We're looking for that one person who's related to all

611
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:40,840
Speaker 1: of those top matches. Some are going to connect to

612
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:44,359
Speaker 1: mom's side, some to Dad's side. Fortunately, and if they

613
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:47,920
Speaker 1: were able to connect to both sides of his family,

614
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:51,560
Speaker 1: it would have zarrowed in only on him, since he's

615
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:53,960
Speaker 1: the only son in that family. Now, we don't know

616
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 1: what they had to work with. It's possible they didn't

617
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 1: have a lot of great matches since his family is

618
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 1: a lot of immigrant ancestors in the last few generations.

619
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 1: But if they did, it would have meant they were

620
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:10,399
Speaker 1: just looking at this one person. Now, if they could

621
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:13,120
Speaker 1: only get stay to great grandparents, maybe they had to

622
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 1: look at twelve great grandsons, twenty great grandson. But then

623
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:20,240
Speaker 1: don't they take their knowledge and they try to find

624
00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:23,399
Speaker 1: who with that DNA is in that area? And I'm

625
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:28,760
Speaker 1: getting an urgent note from our managing editor at Crime

626
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:32,120
Speaker 1: Online Wilson, who is listening in Oh wait, no, this

627
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:36,240
Speaker 1: is from Jackie. Jackie says some reports say Cox pulled

628
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:40,160
Speaker 1: his DNA from a discarded food packaging during observation. Now

629
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:42,279
Speaker 1: I don't know why she's talking like that, but I

630
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:44,399
Speaker 1: think what she's trying to say in regular people talk.

631
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:46,680
Speaker 1: As they staked him out for four days at least

632
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:49,080
Speaker 1: that we know of, and they waited for him to

633
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:52,279
Speaker 1: throw away a McDonald's cup or an Army's rapper, or

634
00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:57,920
Speaker 1: go through his trash very very secretively and get a

635
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:01,600
Speaker 1: toilet tissue or a kleenex where he blew his nose

636
00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 1: to get the DNA. That's not unheard obviously, So you

637
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:06,879
Speaker 1: can get DNA off a pizza cross and it has

638
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:10,480
Speaker 1: been done. You know, they do this exact thing of

639
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:13,640
Speaker 1: my cases. It's really typical that once we point them

640
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:16,880
Speaker 1: in the right direction, they're staking someone out. They're waiting

641
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:19,400
Speaker 1: for them to drop that piece of trash with DNA

642
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:22,400
Speaker 1: on it or pulling their trash from their curb. So

643
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:24,960
Speaker 1: it wouldn't surprise me at all if that's what happened here.

644
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 1: Dave Matt, you've been unusually quiet. Jump indo. I'll make

645
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:33,840
Speaker 1: it quick, Nancy. In Florida, every criminal has their DNA,

646
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:37,840
Speaker 1: quality criminal has their DNA taken. There's a national federal

647
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:41,200
Speaker 1: database now, much like fingerprints, and that makes it a

648
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 1: lot easier to go back if one of those guys

649
00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:47,200
Speaker 1: I mean codis Yeah, if one of those family members

650
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:50,560
Speaker 1: was arrested or they had their DNA taken because they're

651
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:53,399
Speaker 1: working in the medical field or something like that, it's

652
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 1: very easy to make the connection or easier, right, was

653
00:41:57,080 --> 00:42:00,359
Speaker 1: that you Joe Scott jumping in Nancy? This Christ Chris,

654
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 1: go ahead, Chris. So A couple of thoughts that I

655
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:07,480
Speaker 1: have is and I'm curious about the two traffic stops,

656
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:12,439
Speaker 1: is you know they're holding back the first body camera video. Yeah,

657
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:15,320
Speaker 1: right now. So the question is what's on that? But

658
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:19,040
Speaker 1: remember the two water bottles in the center console. Yeah,

659
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:23,440
Speaker 1: I wonder when we find out where that At what

660
00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:26,760
Speaker 1: point do they get on this guy in the beginning?

661
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:29,640
Speaker 1: And are these two traffic stops, you know, the old

662
00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:33,719
Speaker 1: surveillance team calling up, Well, you know what, Chris mcdonnaugh,

663
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:37,560
Speaker 1: that's a whisper stop. Yeah, exactly got it. I had

664
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:40,600
Speaker 1: that question posed on Twitter. They said, do you think

665
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 1: they got DNA from the defendant on one of those

666
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:47,800
Speaker 1: traffic stops? And I wrote back in for no, but

667
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:50,520
Speaker 1: that's a very good question. But it's my understanding that

668
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 1: the cops didn't know to be was that December fifteen,

669
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:56,840
Speaker 1: they didn't know to be looking for coburger. Sheryl McCollums

670
00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 1: jump in. I believe that. Thank you're at Nancy. But again,

671
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:03,440
Speaker 1: what I'm hearing is how fast this happened. Once they

672
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:07,239
Speaker 1: identified the car, they already had unknown mail DNA at

673
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:12,000
Speaker 1: the house. Once they got his identity, they wanted his

674
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:14,759
Speaker 1: DNA to cross check to see if it was the

675
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:18,280
Speaker 1: same DNA that came out of the crime scene. This happened,

676
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:22,960
Speaker 1: in my estimation, very very quickly, and I think CC

677
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:25,919
Speaker 1: could probably talk about that, but I think there's very

678
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:28,880
Speaker 1: few places that could do it that fast. My guest

679
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:31,960
Speaker 1: was off from but you know, it could be anybody,

680
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:35,240
Speaker 1: but it was fast as lightning to me and Nancy.

681
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:38,800
Speaker 1: I think another indication that they may have had a

682
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,520
Speaker 1: team sitting on him is the fact that how many

683
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:45,359
Speaker 1: times was mentioned that they were looking for this specific car.

684
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:48,040
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just over and over it. We couldn't

685
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:51,279
Speaker 1: get away from it. And here this car sat, It

686
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:54,520
Speaker 1: sat for days and days and days. Apparently mommy and

687
00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:57,600
Speaker 1: Daddy didn't notice because he was partnered right up there

688
00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:01,560
Speaker 1: to Elpie. It's wondering. I'm just wondering if if they

689
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:05,040
Speaker 1: had calls on that particular car and the police were like, no,

690
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 1: we're not going to we're going to back off of

691
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:09,879
Speaker 1: this and just watch what this guy is doing because

692
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:12,240
Speaker 1: it's right there. I mean, it's within the thin spot,

693
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:14,360
Speaker 1: you know, to put it in a shot. That's a

694
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:17,920
Speaker 1: really good point, CC. If if what our theory working,

695
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:20,400
Speaker 1: theory is right now, and we may be going down

696
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 1: a rabbit hole, but that's how you end up getting

697
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:25,360
Speaker 1: the correct answer. You test a lot of different theories

698
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 1: and they work or they don't work. Let's just hypothesize

699
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:32,400
Speaker 1: CC that they did get that water by allow of

700
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:35,680
Speaker 1: the car. You know, just pretend just a moment, how

701
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:38,440
Speaker 1: quickly could they make a DNA match to the known

702
00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:41,920
Speaker 1: DNA at the crime scene. Well, at that point, they

703
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:45,239
Speaker 1: would have already used investigative genetic genealogy to give them

704
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:48,240
Speaker 1: that lead. They would have rushed that to their crime

705
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:50,759
Speaker 1: lab and been able to do that one to one

706
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:54,439
Speaker 1: comparison to the codus profile, got it very quickly. In fact,

707
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:57,880
Speaker 1: I've worked with Idaho State Crime Lab and they stayed

708
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:02,560
Speaker 1: overnight on the Angie Dog case to quickly turn those

709
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:04,880
Speaker 1: results around. So I'm sure they would have done the

710
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:07,400
Speaker 1: same thing here and it could have happened very quickly.

711
00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:12,160
Speaker 1: You know. You see Seymore, Chris mcdonna, Cheryl McCollum, Joe

712
00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:15,399
Speaker 1: Scott Morgen, and Karen start Dale, Carson Dave Mack. Each

713
00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:20,120
Speaker 1: one of you have this wealth of experience, Like I

714
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:23,040
Speaker 1: didn't know you'd work with Idaho before, but you have. Yeah,

715
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:27,719
Speaker 1: they're so this is so involved, but when the prosecutor

716
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:31,920
Speaker 1: puts it to the jury, it's got to be so streamlined.

717
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:37,719
Speaker 1: Not that they're simple idiots on the jury but you

718
00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:41,560
Speaker 1: have to be able to communicate a wealth of information

719
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:45,800
Speaker 1: to make it clear what happened, and we're going to

720
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:49,640
Speaker 1: see that unfold. Right now, it's being kept secret as

721
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:55,400
Speaker 1: to the transport of Brian Christopher Coburg for security reasons,

722
00:45:55,520 --> 00:46:00,239
Speaker 1: but within ten days he will be in Idaho and

723
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 1: we will see that probable cause affidavit. We wait as

724
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:11,200
Speaker 1: justice unfalse. Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye friend,