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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at

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Speaker 1: noon and five pm Eastern on Almacarchley and Android Auto

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Speaker 1: with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever you

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Speaker 1: get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

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Speaker 2: Pretty remarkable, not a question allowed by reporters in the room,

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Speaker 2: and as you can see on Bloomberg TV, there are

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Speaker 2: a lot of them. This is the chaos left from

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Speaker 2: President Trump and President Putin making very quick action at

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Speaker 2: the podiums. Very difficult to tell what was accomplished in

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Speaker 2: this meeting, both referring to progress, Vladimir Putin even.

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Speaker 3: Referring to a deal, but we have no.

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Speaker 2: Details on what that might include, other than an.

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Speaker 3: Intention to meet again.

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Speaker 2: This is special extended coverage on Bloomberg TV and radio

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Speaker 2: the Trump Putin Summit in Alaska. I'm Joe Matthew in Washington,

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Speaker 2: and we thank you for being with us here on

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Speaker 2: Balance of Power as we seek analysis now.

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Speaker 3: From our political panel.

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Speaker 2: Bloomberg Politics contributors Rick Davis and Jeanie Shanzano have been

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Speaker 2: with us for the duration, and I would like to

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Speaker 2: hear from both of you here about what we just heard, Geenie,

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Speaker 2: there were big questions about whether they would be on

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Speaker 2: the same page. It seems they were not only with

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Speaker 2: their appreciation for one another, it was like two friends

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Speaker 2: being reunited, but in their eagerness to project progress which

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Speaker 2: may not be backed up by details.

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Speaker 3: What did we just hear?

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Speaker 4: What we just heard, I think is pretty clear that

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Speaker 4: President Trump is going to go home with nothing in

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Speaker 4: his pocket except for potentially a second meeting. And that's

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Speaker 4: obviously something, but it is far far less than I

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Speaker 4: think he wanted. He does want to be a peacemaker here,

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Speaker 4: and I think what is clear is that for all

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Speaker 4: of the niceties and the talk of a relationship, they

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Speaker 4: didn't at least indicate to us any progress by way

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Speaker 4: of approaching peace or a ceasefire vis a v Ukraine.

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Speaker 4: You even heard a little bit from Vladimir Putin from

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Speaker 4: President Putin blaming Ukraine for the situation. Not surprising, but

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Speaker 4: it hardly shows that they made progress there. So I

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Speaker 4: think President Trump going home empty handed. And to your point,

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Speaker 4: it's also very telling that neither president took questions from

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Speaker 4: the press after all of this. They stood, they spoke

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Speaker 4: and they left, And so I think the reason is

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Speaker 4: they don't have much to say for the time they

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Speaker 4: spent together from the perspective of seeing anything get achieved

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Speaker 4: visa VI the Ukraine Russian conflict.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, do you agree with Jennie on this, Rick Davis?

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Speaker 2: And in what world is it appropriate to have the

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Speaker 2: president of Russia kick off a news conference at a

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Speaker 2: US military base on American soil?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? This was my was clearly this was a Putin meeting.

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Speaker 5: One probably requested the chance to speak first, knowing that

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Speaker 5: it would create this level of diminishment for Donald Trump too. Uh,

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Speaker 5: that statement he read Vladimir Putin could have been written

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Speaker 5: six months ago. He came prepared with a statement that

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Speaker 5: was going to make light of the pre existing relationship

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Speaker 5: between the US and Russia, forgetting decades of hatred and.

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Speaker 3: Conflict between the two countries.

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Speaker 5: And you would expect that out of a KGB officer, right,

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Speaker 5: paint a picture of a flowering relationship that has no downside.

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Speaker 5: And and I'm not surprised that there is a semblance

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Speaker 5: of a deal, because Vladimir Putin came probably with a deal,

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Speaker 5: and it's probably the same deal he's been talking about

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Speaker 5: for three years, which is give me the eastern portion

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Speaker 5: of Ukraine, a ban on ever having Ukraine join NATO,

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Speaker 5: and a disarmament of the Ukraine military. And he talked

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Speaker 5: about those things that were threats to Russia that had

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Speaker 5: to be stopped in order to make peace. If that

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Speaker 5: is indeed the case, and he's been consistent about that,

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Speaker 5: the President will get an earfull from his friends in NATO,

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Speaker 5: the European Union, and certainly from President Zelensky when he

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Speaker 5: makes those phone calls.

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Speaker 2: You do wonder how those calls are going to go here, Janie,

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Speaker 2: What would possess Donald Trump to have Vladimir Putin actually initiate,

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Speaker 2: actually begin this news conference as if we were in Moscow,

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Speaker 2: not in Anchorage. And did he in the end protect

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Speaker 2: Putin from taking questions from American journalists.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean the whole thing from start to finish

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Speaker 4: has been very odd, from the rolling out of the

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Speaker 4: red carpet for somebody who has been invited on war

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Speaker 4: crimes from the ICC, to inviting him to US soil

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Speaker 4: in the first place, particularly a military base, then to

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Speaker 4: your point letting him speak first. I think we did

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Speaker 4: hear from Vladimir Putin the kind of flattery that he

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Speaker 4: knows Donald Trump wants. When he was talking, for instance,

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Speaker 4: we heard it a couple times, but one point that

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Speaker 4: struck me was when he was saying, oh, Donald Trump

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Speaker 4: is right, if he had been elected, if he had

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Speaker 4: been in office in twenty twenty, none of this would

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Speaker 4: have ever happened. It's hard to believe that, but certainly

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Speaker 4: that's what Donald Trump says all the time and what

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Speaker 4: he wants to hear. And I think the only question

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Speaker 4: for Donald Trump now is what are you going to do?

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Speaker 4: You made this arrangement for him to come leaving with

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Speaker 4: absolutely nothing.

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Speaker 3: Are you now going.

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Speaker 4: To pursue the tariffs that you've talked about? What angle

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Speaker 4: are you going to play now? Because the only one

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Speaker 4: who's won out of this so far is Vladimir Putin.

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Speaker 4: The Russians are thrilled. He has been welcomed back by

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Speaker 4: the US president onto the world stage, treated like a

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Speaker 4: king as he came down the red carpet and all

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Speaker 4: of that for apparently nothing except maybe a promise of

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Speaker 4: a meeting next time in Moscow, which even Donald Trump

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Speaker 4: said he would probably get some heat for. So I

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Speaker 4: think Donald Trump to me looked slightly aggrieved. And he

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Speaker 4: has every right to be, I think at this point,

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Speaker 4: and I think the question now is how are you

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Speaker 4: going to respond to this, because he's going to not

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Speaker 4: want to look like he's been played by Vladimir Putin,

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Speaker 4: but that seems to be what has happened here.

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Speaker 2: Certainly, Genie Shanzano and Rick Davis will stay with us

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Speaker 2: as we add the voice of Bloomberg Managing editor Kevin

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Speaker 2: whitelaw with me here in Washington. Kevin, this was remarkable

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Speaker 2: and we appreciate your insights on what European leaders might

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Speaker 2: make of this. First they see Vladimir Putin open the

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Speaker 2: news conference, then no questions are taken, a reference to

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Speaker 2: a deal, no details, not even a date to meet again,

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Speaker 2: was this summit of failure?

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Speaker 6: I mean, look, it's going to take a while to

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Speaker 6: understand what Plutin meant when he said agreement, right, And

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Speaker 6: so you know, Trump is getting on the phone and

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Speaker 6: we expect that he's going to be briefing the Ukrainians

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Speaker 6: and some Europeans on what exactly happens. So the real

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Speaker 6: question we'll have to answer in the next hours are

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Speaker 6: was there anything of substance here? And he just wanted

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Speaker 6: to be able to brief the allies first. Yes, unclear

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Speaker 6: whether that's the case or not. We're going to have

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Speaker 6: to be looking into that. But obviously that's what everyone's

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Speaker 6: been nervous about across Europe and particularly in Ukraine, is

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Speaker 6: what might Trump give away, what might he concede And

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Speaker 6: even if there wasn't a deal, he may have offered

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Speaker 6: concessions that then become part of the sort of ground

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Speaker 6: game for any negotiation. And I think that that is

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Speaker 6: exactly where what everyone in in you know, the Native allies,

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Speaker 6: your Op Union allies are worried about. But you know Ukraine,

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Speaker 6: which is already suffering shortages of military equipment because of

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Speaker 6: the various you know, freezes on aid. Their finances are

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Speaker 6: in critical condition in many ways. This is a moment

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Speaker 6: where they have to really, really worry that the President

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Speaker 6: of the United States just is just giving up parts

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Speaker 6: of their territory and signaling to Russia that they're going

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Speaker 6: to be able to get something out of this aggression.

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Speaker 3: Stay with us on Balance of Power. We'll have much

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Speaker 3: more coming up after this.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch

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Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm. Eastern on

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Speaker 1: Applecarklay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen

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Speaker 1: on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us

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Speaker 1: live on YouTube.

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Speaker 2: We bring you now live to angle Bloomberg's and Marie

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Speaker 2: hor Dern was in the room for that. I guess

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Speaker 2: not news conference because not a question was asked. We'll

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Speaker 2: call it maybe a vague announcement from Presidents Putin and Trump.

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Speaker 2: It's a pretty busy place right now. Anne, Marie tell

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Speaker 2: us what the feeling was in the room when these two.

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Speaker 3: Walked out without talking to you.

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Speaker 7: As well. Definitely unconventional that we are in the United States.

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Speaker 7: This was an invitation from President Trump to the United States,

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Speaker 7: to President Putin, his first time in the US.

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Speaker 3: It's a decade.

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Speaker 7: And it was President Putin who started out the news conference.

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Speaker 7: And we do know this an individual who does have

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Speaker 7: a propensity to go very long. He is the one

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Speaker 7: that mentioned security guarantees for Ukraine and mentioned an agreement.

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Speaker 7: So then when the President decided to follow up and

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Speaker 7: give his remarks, you thought that potentially he was going

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Speaker 7: to give more details of a deal that was in

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Speaker 7: the working based off the hours they spent together. Today,

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Speaker 7: the contours potentially, but that's not what we got. One

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Speaker 7: of the first things Trump said was there's no deal

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Speaker 7: until there's a deal, and he said he had a

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Speaker 7: call his European counterparts, the head of NATO and President

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Speaker 7: and Zelenski, and ultimately he said it's up to them.

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Speaker 7: So this said to me, especially since they didn't take questions,

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Speaker 7: that territory was discussed, because remember we only had the

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Speaker 7: foreign policy three by three meeting between both these delegations,

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Speaker 7: not the expanded meeting when you had the Commerce Secretary

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Speaker 7: here and the Treasury Secretary here. So this was strictly

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Speaker 7: likely about territorial swaps as I read it, and what

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Speaker 7: the Russians were willing to offer. Maybe President Trump knows

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Speaker 7: that is not something Vladimir Zelenski can swallow. The third rail,

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Speaker 7: the red line in Ukraine, of course, is Zelenski pulling

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Speaker 7: out of the region don Bas, with which Putin wants

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Speaker 7: all of the region Luhanskan Danyevsk, where you have Vladimir

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Speaker 7: Zelenski and the Ukrainian Front keeping in holdover.

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Speaker 3: Very interesting. They didn't take questions.

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Speaker 7: I'm not surprised that maybe Vladimi Putin didn't want to

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Speaker 7: take questions. But President Trump loves briefing the press, and

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Speaker 7: I imagine he is going to brief the press on

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Speaker 7: his way back to Washington, and he's also set to

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Speaker 7: sit down for another Fox News interview, so maybe we

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Speaker 7: will get some more color. But he did say one

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Speaker 7: of the first things he's going to do is call

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Speaker 7: his European.

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Speaker 2: Counterparts, So Anne Marie, just to be clear, that extended session,

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Speaker 2: the working lunch as it was framed in the guidance

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Speaker 2: from the White House with the Treasury and Commerce secretaries is.

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Speaker 3: Not happening now. Is everybody going home? It does feel

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Speaker 3: that way.

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Speaker 7: I spoke to Kerl Dimitriev, the head of the Russian

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Speaker 7: Direct Investment Fund, who is really kind of has become

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Speaker 7: this interloctur between Moscow Washington, maybe the most direct contact

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Speaker 7: to Steve Wikoff, and I kept asking him at the

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Speaker 7: end of what happened here? Is there a cessation of hostilities?

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Speaker 7: What kind of agreement is putin talking about? And he said,

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Speaker 7: more progress, more progress, more progress, more to come. But

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Speaker 7: we don't have any details on if there's going to

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Speaker 7: be another meeting soon. There's going to be this secondary meeting.

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Speaker 7: The President continuously teased all week, saying the second meeting

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Speaker 7: is going to be.

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Speaker 3: Even more important than the first.

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Speaker 7: Because likely that would include President Zelenski alongside President Putin

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Speaker 7: and President Trump. As of now, it seems that everyone

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Speaker 7: is packing up and going home.

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Speaker 2: Wow, Bloomberg's and Marie Hordern went all the way to

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Speaker 2: Anchorage to bring this story to us without even a

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Speaker 2: dialogue with these two presidents. A pretty interesting result. Her Anne, Marie,

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Speaker 2: thank you so much. Want to bring Kevin Whitelaw back

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Speaker 2: in Bloomberg Managing editor with the idea of a second meeting,

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Speaker 2: as Donald Trump said, being more productive than the first.

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Speaker 2: Should we assume there'll be a second meeting? What if

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Speaker 2: European leaders don't like this phone call?

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Speaker 6: I mean, you know, European leaders have to react carefully

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Speaker 6: here because they need to keep Trump on board with

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Speaker 6: support to Ukraine. They're relying on the US military supplies

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Speaker 6: weaponry to be delivered, So they have to find a

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Speaker 6: way to keep him on size without allowing him to

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Speaker 6: make concessions that they simply find unacceptable.

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Speaker 3: So they're going to have to continue to.

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Speaker 6: Play this game of praising him gently while offering him

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Speaker 6: cautions and words. My guess is the fact that this

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Speaker 6: was a three way meeting, three on three rather than

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Speaker 6: a one on one probably gave them a.

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Speaker 3: Little bit of comfort.

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Speaker 6: But I can imagine when they saw the two of

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Speaker 6: those leaders in the back of the President's limousine that

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Speaker 6: were probably a lot of very very nervous emails fight.

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Speaker 2: I'd still like to know what was said in that car.

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Speaker 2: There wasn't a translator with them, so presumably Vladimir Putin

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Speaker 2: was speaking English. Kevin Donald Trump brought up what he

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Speaker 2: likes to call the Russia hoax, Russia, Russia, Russia, and

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Speaker 2: his very brief remarks to think that he went there

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Speaker 2: today tells us what.

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Speaker 6: Well, I think it just tells us that's the frame

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Speaker 6: to what he's seen every still, right, So, I mean,

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Speaker 6: nothing's changed. Well, you know, this meeting was as much

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Speaker 6: about him as it was about trying to solve anything, right.

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Speaker 6: I mean, he's been pretty clear he's waiting for that

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Speaker 6: Nobel Peace Prize to be handed to him. Yes, and

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Speaker 6: obviously most of what happens to him he sees through

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Speaker 6: a political lens. And so yeah, the Russia hoax was

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Speaker 6: a knowing nod to people in a way to sort

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Speaker 6: of say, hey, you see that. You know, I'm not

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Speaker 6: sort of part of that, but you know, I think

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Speaker 6: as everyone else is watching this, you know that feels

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Speaker 6: like ancient history. What really feels like the stakes are

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Speaker 6: now is Ukraine's future and what, after all, Trump is

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Speaker 6: going to do to a country that has otherwise been

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Speaker 6: entirely isolated by most of the Western world, has been

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Speaker 6: cut off and has had its economy absolutely torn apart

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Speaker 6: by this sanctions regime, and Trump seems to be offering

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Speaker 6: them a way out of some of that, and it's

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Speaker 6: just not clear what Russia is going to give up,

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Speaker 6: if anything.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Lastly, Kevin, if this working lunch with an economic

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Speaker 2: dialogue including Best and Lutnik their counterparts in fact, is

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Speaker 2: not going to take place as it does appear now,

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Speaker 2: does that suggest the US or even both sides overreached

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Speaker 2: to think that we were going to have an economic

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Speaker 2: summit today as well?

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Speaker 6: My guess is both sides, particularly the US, I didn't

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Speaker 6: know what was going to happen today, and I think

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Speaker 6: they wanted to be ready for a lot of things.

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Speaker 6: It was interesting that obviously the Russians brought a delegation

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Speaker 6: that included an economic team as well. Did seem like

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Speaker 6: maybe they thought there was more to happen to go on.

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Speaker 6: At the same time, this did last quite a long time,

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Speaker 6: so that does mean that they probably got somewhere in

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Speaker 6: the conversation. Now, whether that meant that they realized that

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Speaker 6: they're nowhere close, or whether that meant that they see

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Speaker 6: a path forward, I think it's going to take a

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Speaker 6: little while to sort out. But that was the longest

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Speaker 6: meeting they've had, and I think that's not insignificant.

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Speaker 2: Kevin whitelaw thank you so much with me here in Washington,

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Speaker 2: and Kevin's right, this is stretched beyond two and a

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Speaker 2: half hours, which in fact was their longest meeting. It

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Speaker 2: may have seemed short because of expectations that this could

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Speaker 2: go on for twice as long. It obviously did not.

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Speaker 2: And we want to bring our panel back. In Bloomberg Politics,

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Speaker 2: contributors Rick Davis and Jeanie Shanzano, Genie Vladimir Putin mentioned

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Speaker 2: Joe Biden, or at least referred to him in his

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Speaker 2: remarks before President Trump spoke. Knowing that Putin spoke first,

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Speaker 2: he criticized the former president, saying he can confirm that

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Speaker 2: if Donald Trump had been president, this war never would

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Speaker 2: have happened.

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Speaker 3: Does he actually believe that, I don't think so.

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Speaker 4: I think it is part of his quote unquote charm

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Speaker 4: offensive towards Donald Trump. You know, Vladimir Putin is smart,

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Speaker 4: he's strategic. He knows exactly what President Trump wants to hear,

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Speaker 4: and that is that kind of flattery. He's just reflecting

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Speaker 4: back to Donald Trump, something Donald Trump says all the time.

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Speaker 4: And you know what was so stunning to me was

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Speaker 4: at least watching it from Afar, is despite that flattery,

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Speaker 4: Donald Trump seemed a bit mixed emotionally when you just

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Speaker 4: watched him there. After all, he flew all the way there,

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Speaker 4: He rolled out the red carpet, He invited a somebody

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Speaker 4: who was wanted on war crimes to us soil a

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Speaker 4: military base, he wrote in a beast with him smiling,

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Speaker 4: clamped when he came, and he is leaving after three hours,

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Speaker 4: a couple hours, with nothing to show for it except

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Speaker 4: some flattery. So I felt like even Donald Trump, who

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Speaker 4: usually is prone to that kind of flattery, may have

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Speaker 4: been thinking, this is not why I came all the

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Speaker 4: way here, because what we all expected, Vladimir Putin shows

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Speaker 4: absolutely no signs of moving at all.

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Speaker 3: Away from what he has.

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Speaker 4: Long said about his intent hold the land that he's

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Speaker 4: taken and to keep with what he demanded from Biden

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Speaker 4: quite frankly in Istanbul and has not been able to

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Speaker 4: get from the Europeans, Ukraine or the US. And Donald

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Speaker 4: Trump now is the latest person to hear these demands

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Speaker 4: and not to bend to them, thankfully.

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Speaker 2: The Bloomberg News headline says it all here. At almost

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Speaker 2: seven thirty pm Eastern time, Trump Putin news conference ends

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Speaker 2: with no details on agreement. Rick Davis, we heard Vladimir

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Speaker 2: Putin speak English very briefly.

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Speaker 3: At the end of his remarks.

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Speaker 2: He said next time in Moscow, suggesting that the next

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Speaker 2: session might happen in the Russian capital. Could that take.

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Speaker 5: Place, well, if there is a universal peace between Russia

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Speaker 5: and Ukraine that preserves Ukraine's sovereignty and independence.

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Speaker 3: Sure, yeah, why not?

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Speaker 4: Right?

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Speaker 3: I mean, like, but that's likely to happen. Never.

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Speaker 5: The reality is, we've just got to, you know, realize

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Speaker 5: that Vladimir Putin is a trained KGB agent who uses

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Speaker 5: every element of you know, sub refuge to disable his opponent.

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Speaker 5: And in this case, let's not be getting ourselves. Donald

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Speaker 5: Trump is his opponent. The real test is going to

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Speaker 5: be tomorrow morning when we wake up. Have missiles flown

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Speaker 5: from Russia to the Ukraine, killing more Ukrainian people? Have

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Speaker 5: drones flown over the capital of key Eve, attacking innocent civilians.

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Speaker 5: Has the ground troops continued in an offensive, you know,

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Speaker 5: in threatening the eastern Ukraine. I mean, that's going to

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Speaker 5: tell us where this deal stands. And if that happens,

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Speaker 5: I think Donald Trump puts himself in a position to

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Speaker 5: have to then start answering questions about what was agreed

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Speaker 5: to because it didn't seem to shape the battlefield.

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Speaker 2: So, Genie, will Donald Trump regret the red carpet and

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Speaker 2: the limo ride.

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Speaker 3: I think he is going to.

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Speaker 4: You know, Donald Trump said on the campaign trail he'd

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Speaker 4: resolved this in twelve twenty four hours. I think it

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Speaker 4: was he said it over fifty times.

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Speaker 3: He deeply believed they had a connection.

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Speaker 4: And he went all this way with this summit today,

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Speaker 4: rolling out the red carpet, only to really I think

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Speaker 4: he probably feels inside be made something of a fool

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Speaker 4: of because there was nothing coming out of it. And

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Speaker 4: that's why most leaders of the US and other countries

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Speaker 4: don't go into these summits with nothing to show for them.

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Speaker 4: I am stunned that they didn't even talk about things

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Speaker 4: outside of Ukraine, at least giving the president something to

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Speaker 4: say he got in the end. So Donald Trump, I think,

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Speaker 4: has to feel very aggrieved. No matter how much flattery

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Speaker 4: Vladimir Putin throws his way, nothing can make up for

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Speaker 4: the fact that he did not get what he came for.

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Speaker 2: Janie Schanzano and Rick Davis. Thanks for listening to the

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Speaker 2: Balance of Power podcast. Make sure to subscribe if you

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Speaker 2: haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts,

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Speaker 2: and you can find us live every weekday from Washington,

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Speaker 2: DC at New Time Eastern at Bloomberg dot com.