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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. This is Master's in

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Speaker 1: Business with Barry Ridholds on Bloomberg Radio. This week on

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Speaker 1: the podcast, I have an extra special guest. What can

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Speaker 1: I say about Peter Maluke. He began as an attorney,

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Speaker 1: working on things like taxes and trust and estates and

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Speaker 1: consulting for various RIA firms when he became an RIA

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Speaker 1: and eventually bought Creative Planning when it had you know,

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Speaker 1: a handful of clients and you know, thirty thirty five

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Speaker 1: million dollars. He has since built Creative Planning into one

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Speaker 1: of the nation's largest rias and an absolute powerhouse, running

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Speaker 1: over three hundred billion dollars. Peter is the guy I

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Speaker 1: look to when I want to learn things about how

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Speaker 1: to build a firm, how to grow organically, how to

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Speaker 1: think about out acquisitions, how to structure your company, really

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Speaker 1: to become an enterprise as opposed to merely being a business.

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Speaker 1: Peter is also the author of two really interesting books,

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Speaker 1: The Five Mistakes Every Investor Makes and How to Avoid Them,

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Speaker 1: and his latest book is Money Simplified. Whether you're an

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Speaker 1: RIA or an entrepreneur, whether you're interested in finding out

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Speaker 1: about who should manage your money and what you should

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Speaker 1: look at when you talk to creative planning. I thought

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Speaker 1: this conversation was absolutely fascinating, and I think you will

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Speaker 1: also with no further ado, my discussion with Creative Plannings

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Speaker 1: Peter Maluk.

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Speaker 2: It's great to be back there.

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Speaker 1: So I didn't mean to imply that the other books

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Speaker 1: weren't interesting. I just those are the two most recent

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Speaker 1: books I wanted to emphasize. But let's talk a little

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Speaker 1: bit about your background in your career, which is so interesting.

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Speaker 1: You get a jd MBA from the University of Kansas

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Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety six. That's an interesting combination. What was

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Speaker 1: the plan for your career with that combo?

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Speaker 2: Oh? So here was the brilliant plan. I had had

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Speaker 2: been an undergrad at KU for quite a while and

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Speaker 2: I was having an incredible time. My brothers were, you know,

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Speaker 2: three four years younger than me, so they were coming

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Speaker 2: in when I was a senior. I didn't want to leave,

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Speaker 2: and so I thought I'll just stay and get a

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Speaker 2: get a master's degree. And then I learned that KU

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Speaker 2: was launching this combination thing. Instead of doing a law

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Speaker 2: degree for three years and MBA for two, you could

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Speaker 2: combine them and do it in four and if you

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Speaker 2: went in the summers, you could do it in three.

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Speaker 2: And so I signed up for it with no plan

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Speaker 2: other than to stay at KU a little bit, a

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Speaker 2: little that was the plan. I'm having fun.

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Speaker 1: Your siblings went to the same school at the same time. Well,

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Speaker 1: KU is a big joint. What was that like?

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Speaker 2: It was a blast? I mean, it's it's a it's

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Speaker 2: a really really fun town. My oldest son just graduated

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Speaker 2: from there. My my youngest two are going there next year.

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Speaker 2: So I get to relive it, you know, through them

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Speaker 2: a little bit. And many things have changed, but a

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Speaker 2: lot of things are exactly the same. That's one of

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Speaker 2: the reasons. I think a lot of people like going

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Speaker 2: back to the schools that they graduated from.

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Speaker 1: So long before you went to KU, Creative Planning was

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Speaker 1: formed in Kansas. That was back in nineteen eighty three.

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Speaker 1: What led you to acquire the company in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and four? You were an employee at the time, weren't you.

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Speaker 2: I was, so I had started out, you know, accidental

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Speaker 2: journey to becoming an advisor, and I really found myself

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Speaker 2: as an advisor to advisors. So I would go from

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Speaker 2: one brokerage house to another, and one independent advisor to

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Speaker 2: another from morning till you know, the day was over,

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Speaker 2: and I would do legal work for their clients, or

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Speaker 2: give tax advice, or do planning or investments. And at

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Speaker 2: some point, the people that were running the financial planning

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Speaker 2: department for Creative Planning, which was a sister company to

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Speaker 2: an insurance company, there were three guys that were selling

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Speaker 2: disability insurance to physicians in Kansas City. One of them

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Speaker 2: passed away at a young age, one became disabled to

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Speaker 2: a young age, and the people that were running the

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Speaker 2: financial planning arm had left, and the owner of that

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Speaker 2: firm is incredible guy, had brought me in to handle

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Speaker 2: the planning and investments for Creative Planning. So while I

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Speaker 2: was doing all this work for other advisors, I was

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Speaker 2: also managing you know, their thirty or forty clients that

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Speaker 2: they had at the time too. And that's where, you know,

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Speaker 2: from ninety eight to four, I got this sense of Hey,

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Speaker 2: all day, every day, I'm doing little pieces for different people.

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Speaker 2: What if there was a firm that did all of

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Speaker 2: this in one place.

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Speaker 1: One quarterback to oversee everything that's right? Oh four, you

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Speaker 1: do the acquisition. I mean you're working as an attorney

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Speaker 1: for a advisory firm. It's kind of hard to write

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Speaker 1: a big check at that point. How did this process

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Speaker 1: go about you for you acquiring, Well, I.

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Speaker 2: Mean it was it was managing a very very small

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Speaker 2: amount of money, so there was no big check. There

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Speaker 2: was no big check to be written, or I wouldn't

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Speaker 2: have been able to buy it. And he was, you know,

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Speaker 2: very great. I mean we're talking like, you know, six

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Speaker 2: figure check right spread out over you know, sixty months.

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Speaker 2: So it was not a this was not a big

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Speaker 2: operation at the time.

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Speaker 1: And thirty four million dollars not a lot of money,

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Speaker 1: that's right. And now it's up. What is that a

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Speaker 1: thousand x? You're over three hundred billion. Let's talk about

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Speaker 1: how you got there. You for the first what is

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Speaker 1: that fifteen years, did no acquisitions, so strictly organically grew

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Speaker 1: from thirty four million to forty two billion. That is

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Speaker 1: a giant one hundred x set of gains. How do

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Speaker 1: you grow a company organically that quickly?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think we were ahead of the game and

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Speaker 2: a lot of things that now a lot of firms

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Speaker 2: have started to do. And I think like we were

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Speaker 2: doing financial planning without a separate fee. We were passive

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Speaker 2: on the equity side. We never used hedge funds, but

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Speaker 2: we used private equity, private lending. You know, very early

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Speaker 2: on for an RIA, we were doing legal, tax, investments,

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Speaker 2: trust services, planning all under one roof. That was definitely

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Speaker 2: revolutionary at the time. You know, there are the other

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Speaker 2: are firms. You know that your ten years fifteen years

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Speaker 2: later started to add those things. We had a very

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Speaker 2: big hit start and the market really responded to those things.

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Speaker 2: Like if you look here twenty years later, where did

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Speaker 2: the market go On the equity side, It went from

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Speaker 2: active to passa while we were there in the beginning.

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Speaker 2: On the private side, where has it gone from hedge

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Speaker 2: funds to private investments? We were there very early. It

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Speaker 2: used to charge separately for a planning fee. Now it's

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Speaker 2: more the way creative planning did it. And this idea

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Speaker 2: of adding other services in one place. The market's moving

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Speaker 2: there too. So I think we were just ahead on

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Speaker 2: all of those things. We had a big advantage in

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Speaker 2: that regard. I think when people are looking for an advisor,

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Speaker 2: they like to see usually two things. I think one

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Speaker 2: they want to see that you know what you're doing

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Speaker 2: and it's very hard to figure out that somebody knows

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Speaker 2: what they're doing. But they could look at Creative and go, well,

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Speaker 2: Creator's been doing this a very very long time, right,

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Speaker 2: And if they can go talk to one hundred advisors,

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Speaker 2: none of them would have been doing what we're doing

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Speaker 2: back then, right, So I think they just know, hey,

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Speaker 2: we've been doing it longer, and we've got probably more people,

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Speaker 2: you know, doing these services, more specialties, more people with

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Speaker 2: those designations. We're now divided out and working with ultra

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Speaker 2: affluent people and the mass affluent and having different teams

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Speaker 2: that serve all of these And I think an investor,

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Speaker 2: a prospective client can figure that out in pretty short order.

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Speaker 2: You know, when my son and I were walking here

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Speaker 2: to the studio, we were trying to figure out, you know,

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Speaker 2: where to eat. We didn't have any time. We're gonna

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Speaker 2: have to eat and walk right so here in New

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Speaker 2: York City, and we got in late. We wanted to

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Speaker 2: make it on time here as close as we could.

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Speaker 2: So what do we do? We stopped at a food truck,

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Speaker 2: a bunch of food trucks, but there was one food

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Speaker 2: truck that say lone voted but best whatever, Trip Advisor

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Speaker 2: all that that's the one we stopped at, right, because

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Speaker 2: it feels like there's some social proof there that is

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Speaker 2: food Truck's food's probably better than the other ones. It's

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Speaker 2: sure enough. My son was like, if I was in

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Speaker 2: Can't City, I wo'd eat this every day, you know,

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Speaker 2: for lunch. I think when you look at an advisor,

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Speaker 2: you know we're both in the professions. So it seems, well,

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Speaker 2: I mean, does it that big a deal to we

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Speaker 2: be doing get a long time? Well? I mean, if

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Speaker 2: you get yourself out of the professional profession in a

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Speaker 2: medical condition, right, and you're looking for a doctor, you

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Speaker 2: like the doctor that's been doing it for a few decades,

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Speaker 2: with an enormous team that's invested in all this technology,

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Speaker 2: it's probably already made the mistakes they're going to make

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Speaker 2: that if something weird shows up, they've probably seen it before.

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Speaker 2: That is creative planning. And so the growth, it compounds

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Speaker 2: because the longer you've been doing it, the more that

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Speaker 2: credibility you have.

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Speaker 1: So you mentioned you have all these different teams and

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Speaker 1: all these different people. How do you maintain the corporate

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Speaker 1: culture when you scale up one hundred x? Like that's

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Speaker 1: a real challenge. How do you keep old horses pulling

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Speaker 1: the sleigh in the same direction.

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Speaker 2: Why take this incredibly seriously because you know, in this business,

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Speaker 2: all you really have is what's in people's brains and

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Speaker 2: in their hearts. Right, You've got to have people that

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Speaker 2: know what they're doing and they care about people, right,

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Speaker 2: Because this isn't like we're not a hedge fund, we're

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Speaker 2: not a mutual fund. Nothing's wrong with those things, but

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Speaker 2: we're dealing with actual human beings. You know, whether a creative,

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Speaker 2: whether you're a CPA or an attorney or a planner,

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Speaker 2: a wealth manager or whatever, you're sitting across the table

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Speaker 2: from somebody, you have to have that kind of consultative

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Speaker 2: nature about you or you're not going to be successful,

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Speaker 2: certainly not be able to do right by the client.

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Speaker 2: And so I look at culture a couple of things. One,

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Speaker 2: it's who you let in in the first place. Right,

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Speaker 2: So when I'm interviewing, it's not just who I want in,

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Speaker 2: it's who do I want to keep out? So I'm

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Speaker 2: always the last stop in an interview. Mine's always just

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Speaker 2: a few minutes.

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Speaker 1: Even today with how many of you guys have over

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Speaker 1: a thousand employees, twenty four hundred. Yeah, So every one

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Speaker 1: of them. You gave the stamp of approval before they

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Speaker 1: came in.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'll block quite a few now their background

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Speaker 2: check before they get to be somebody is already. Somebody's

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Speaker 2: already said, hey, I like them for my department. They

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Speaker 2: know what they're doing and all that we're not, you know,

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Speaker 2: we're not perfect. But there's a lot of screens in here.

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Speaker 2: But what I'm just looking for is, you know, every

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Speaker 2: now and then you have a leader and they're just

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Speaker 2: desperate to fill a role, right, and you really have

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Speaker 2: to you want to avoid that desperate hire where they

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Speaker 2: bring that jerk in right right, Because you know, I

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Speaker 2: was talking to somebody the other day about are most

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Speaker 2: people good? Are most people bad? And we were talking about, well, yeah,

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Speaker 2: think about all the violent crime and assaults and all

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Speaker 2: this stuff, and the reality is most people are good,

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Speaker 2: but one bad person causes so much damage. We had

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Speaker 2: someone that became a client because someone was stealing from

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Speaker 2: them and employe was stealing from them. Will turns out

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Speaker 2: they were stealing from four other businesses too, do you

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Speaker 2: know what I mean? Like so, but that's normal, right,

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Speaker 2: someone who commits sexual assault, it's a very tiny group

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Speaker 2: of people that commit sexual assaults. The problem is the

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Speaker 2: average person does it over and over and over, so

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Speaker 2: you create disproportion victims. Well, I look at it like

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Speaker 2: weeds in a garden. You get that one person in

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Speaker 2: your firm and they're a little bit of a jerk,

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Speaker 2: or they're overly self serving, or they can turn the

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Speaker 2: culture very very fast and cause a lot of distraction.

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Speaker 2: I think the biggest successes I've had in my career

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Speaker 2: are who I've hired. The biggest failures I've had in

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Speaker 2: my career are are who I've hired. And so I think,

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Speaker 2: like you look at the social curve, part of it's

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Speaker 2: attracting the right talent, but getting that you know, sociopath

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Speaker 2: or that kind of like really narcissistic type personality, keeping

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Speaker 2: that person out of your firm. I think that's step

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Speaker 2: one in the culture. Step two is if you make

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Speaker 2: a mistake, and we make mistakes, correct it fast. I'm

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Speaker 2: really bad at this, by the way, Verry.

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Speaker 1: Really it's hard to do. We all know the expression

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Speaker 1: high or slowly fire fast, but it's very It's much

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Speaker 1: harder to do than the sound.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And what's changed my thinking on this is I

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Speaker 2: used to just drag it out and drag it out

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Speaker 2: and drag it out. And this you know woman in

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Speaker 2: our firm who started with me early on, she you know,

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Speaker 2: came to me once she said like, hey, you think

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Speaker 2: you're doing this person a favor, but you're really doing

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Speaker 2: is you're punishing the rest of us. And that just

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Speaker 2: changed my thinking about it overnight, Like now I feel

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Speaker 2: like you're sending a message to the rest of the

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Speaker 2: firm and what you'll tolerate, whether it's in competence or

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Speaker 2: ill will or whatever. So getting people out, you know, quickly,

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Speaker 2: is another very big piece of it. And then the

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Speaker 2: other part is who do you make a leader. You

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Speaker 2: can't just make the leader the person who was really

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Speaker 2: good at something, right, Like you can't say, okay, you're

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Speaker 2: really good at taxes, I'm going to make you the

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Speaker 2: head of the tax group.

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Speaker 1: Or you're really you got a different set of skills.

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Speaker 2: Yes, you really need somebody who embodies the culture where

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Speaker 2: you know, someone was just asking us we do this

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Speaker 2: thing called ask Me Anything at Creative Planning where every

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Speaker 2: six months, separate from the other things we do, there's

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Speaker 2: just an hour people can ask me whatever they want.

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Speaker 2: And somebody said, well, what do you know? What's the

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Speaker 2: message you want your leaders to give? And I said,

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Speaker 2: I want my leader to be the message. Right. If

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Speaker 2: you have to ask what the the leader should just

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Speaker 2: persona what they want, what the example is of what

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Speaker 2: it's supposed to be. That's the type of person you

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Speaker 2: got to do all those things intentionally. Culture is very fragile.

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Speaker 2: I think we've been graded, and I think a big

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Speaker 2: part of it is that we've got the right leaders

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Speaker 2: in place.

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Speaker 1: Let's also talk about your headquarters. You're an overland park, Kansas.

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Speaker 1: The typical investment farm seems to be east coast or

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Speaker 1: west coast. What are the advantages of being located in Kansas?

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Speaker 2: See this is a happy accident too, kind of like

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Speaker 2: how I wound up with my majors or wound up

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Speaker 2: in the profession. It's just I was born and raised

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Speaker 2: in Kansas City and just was never ambitious enough to

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Speaker 2: go do anything else. You know, when my brothers moved

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Speaker 2: to Dallas and one moved to la and they both

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Speaker 2: enormously you know successful. All my aunts and uncles moved

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Speaker 2: to different cities. But I graduated, went back to Kansas City,

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Speaker 2: got a job, and next thing I knew I was

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Speaker 2: running Creative Planning, and by the time I even thought

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Speaker 2: about where I was located, Creative Planning had been you know,

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Speaker 2: too successful to consider anything else. Once I tried to

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Speaker 2: get my family to move twenty blocks and my kids started,

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Speaker 2: you know, screaming and ran upstairs clear and nothing, you know,

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Speaker 2: nothing was going to happen. So but it's been absolutely

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Speaker 2: amazing because to this day in my life, I have

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Speaker 2: not done a coast to coast flight. I mean I

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Speaker 2: travel every week, and it's very easy to get around

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Speaker 2: the country. If you are are you're.

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Speaker 1: Never more than two and a half hours away from anyway.

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Speaker 2: Everything's pretty everything's pretty probably yeah, yeah, I mean continental US, right,

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Speaker 2: so everything's really easy to get to something, to visit

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Speaker 2: an office, see a team or or give it a presentation,

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Speaker 2: or see a client. You know, I can do it.

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Speaker 2: And I also think that there is something to be

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Speaker 2: said for and I think it sounds cliche, but it's

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Speaker 2: not just this midwack Midwest ethics, Midwest work ethic and

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Speaker 2: and kind of the attitude, this bias towards integrity. I

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Speaker 2: found it very very easy to hire very high quality people,

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Speaker 2: and so many of our firm's partners are based in

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Speaker 2: Kansas City too.

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Speaker 1: We call it Midwest nice, yes, which it really is.

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Speaker 1: We have family in Chicago. Every time we're there every

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Speaker 1: year for Thanksgiving, every time we're local, it's like everybody

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Speaker 1: here is just so delightful. That's right, they're just so pleasant.

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Speaker 1: I guess it's because they're not in a rush and

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Speaker 1: the real estate isn't as expensive, so people are less stressed.

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Speaker 1: That's what I usually talk it up to. But Midwest

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Speaker 1: nice is really a thing.

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Speaker 2: It's really a thing. Yeah, there's a lot of reasons,

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Speaker 2: but it's a real thing that I appreciate more and

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Speaker 2: more every year that goes by.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk a little bit about the growth at Creative Planning.

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Speaker 1: It was organic for the first fifteen years, and then

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Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen you did a few acquisitions. First off,

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Speaker 1: what led you to the decision to say, hey, we've

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Speaker 1: gone as far as we think we can organically, let's

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Speaker 1: take advantage of all this cheap capital around and start

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Speaker 1: doing acquisitions.

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Speaker 2: So really, for us, I had never occurred to me

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Speaker 2: to even do an acquisition. We were from the very

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Speaker 2: first month growing faster as fast as we could possibly handle.

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Speaker 2: It was just moving so quickly. We've always been higher.

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Speaker 2: Every quarter in the history of creative play has been

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Speaker 2: positive net inflows every quarter in the history of creative

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Speaker 2: We've been hiring, right, and we're just growing, growing, growing, growing.

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Speaker 2: But you look at even over that period, Forbes had

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Speaker 2: done a ranking of the fastest growing firms in the

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Speaker 2: United States and we were number one on that list,

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Speaker 2: and that was ten years in. It was over the

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Speaker 2: ten year period. Even then, if you went to an

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Speaker 2: average American city and visited one of our offices, we

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Speaker 2: probably didn't have a physical office. We probably had one

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Speaker 2: or two advisors, and in that particular city, we might

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Speaker 2: have managed, you know, eight hundred million dollars, right, So

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Speaker 2: it was clear to me that I could do this

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Speaker 2: till I was one hundred and ten, and I was

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Speaker 2: not going to be able to build a national independent firm.

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Speaker 2: I might have had the biggest independent ria, you know,

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Speaker 2: at at doing that pace, I might have we would

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Speaker 2: have continued to be successful. But we had sat around

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Speaker 2: a few of us and said what do we want

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Speaker 2: to do, and we said, we have this opportunity to

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Speaker 2: set the standard of what a client should receive from

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Speaker 2: an independent wealth manager. And we looked at our competitors

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Speaker 2: of who else we thought might be that standard, and

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Speaker 2: we thought, you know, we you know, we're proud of

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Speaker 2: what doing. We thought, Hey, this is the right way

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Speaker 2: to do it. This is the right investment approach, this

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Speaker 2: is the right wealth management approach. We have this opportunity

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Speaker 2: to do this, let's do it right. And so along

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Speaker 2: the way we made one acquisition, very much by accident,

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Speaker 2: Metafather and Son that turned out to be wonderful. But

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Speaker 2: what we've observed from them was they grew faster when

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Speaker 2: they were with us. Their advisors all stayed and were

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Speaker 2: very happy. Their clients got more services, they referred more,

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Speaker 2: so their growth rate went up. And we were like,

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Speaker 2: wait a second. We did all of this and we

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Speaker 2: doubled our presence in that city was Minneapolis. This is

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Speaker 2: the recipe, And we went back and started to call

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Speaker 2: all the advisors over the years that had called us,

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Speaker 2: and the acquisitions began. But organically, we've actually, excluding acquisitions,

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Speaker 2: grown more in the last five years than the previous ten.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: So the organic growth is accelerated, but the acquisitions have

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Speaker 2: been a nice way to complement it. With our goal

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Speaker 2: being to become more localized to clients. Basically in every

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Speaker 2: major market.

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Speaker 1: So tell us about the four toh one K acquisition

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Speaker 1: did that was a substantial purchase one hundred plus billion

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Speaker 1: dollars in four one K assets.

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Speaker 2: That's right. So you know, we on the on the

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Speaker 2: private well side, we work with the massive fluid, We

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Speaker 2: work with people that have ten million up and we

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Speaker 2: work with centi millionaires and billionaires. On the for one

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Speaker 2: K side, we were basically dealing with foreign K plans

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Speaker 2: that were from startup to one hundred or so million. Well,

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Speaker 2: we have sixty seventy thousand private clients, many of them

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Speaker 2: are CFOs CEOs of publicly traded companies, and they would say, well, hey,

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Speaker 2: before you talk to my team about the four and K,

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Speaker 2: how many one billion dollar four on K plans you have?

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Speaker 2: I would say, well, well none, and they're like, well

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Speaker 2: there's no way, you know what I mean, there's no

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Speaker 2: social proof there, right. And so what this acquisition did

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Speaker 2: was they were one of the three largest independent foreworn

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Speaker 2: K providers in the United States. A lot of publicly

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Speaker 2: traded companies multi billion dollar foreign K plans with tens

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Speaker 2: of thousands of participants. We bought, purchased that group, put

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Speaker 2: it in a creative They've grown quicker because they have

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Speaker 2: more of a wealth management backbone. They've got now financial wellness,

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Speaker 2: financial education. We're able to manage money, add new investments

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Speaker 2: at lower fees. We just have a lot of negotiating power,

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Speaker 2: so we've been able to do an enormous amount to

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Speaker 2: make the offering better. And they've grown quicker also from

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Speaker 2: referrals from our advisors and now those four K participants

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Speaker 2: are also learning about creative planning and coming over to

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Speaker 2: the private sizes. It's been a home run all the

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Speaker 2: way around for us.

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Speaker 1: Sounds like it. You were also very early in the

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Speaker 1: referral program with Schwab and you recently announced you were

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Speaker 1: joining the referral program with Fidelity. Both those companies have

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Speaker 1: notoriously loyal client basis. How do you get somebody who's

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Speaker 1: custodied with Schwab or custodied with Fidelity to put creative

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Speaker 1: planning first and not think of themselves as a custody client.

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Speaker 1: I know that sounds odd, but you know exactly what.

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Speaker 2: I'm saying, right Well, I think the thing about those

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Speaker 2: clients is, I mean, Schwab and Fidelity are the clear leader.

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Speaker 2: I don't you know, who's third. I don't know who

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Speaker 2: third is, right, which is now part of Schwab.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: So these are enormous, incredible, and I think they're more

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Speaker 2: than custodians. And I think a lot of people just

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Speaker 2: want custody. They want to trade on their own. They're

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Speaker 2: never coming, you know, they're not going to come to

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Speaker 2: Creative planning. There's people that there are many solutions that

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Speaker 2: Shoab and Fideli offer their clients, and those people perfectly

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Speaker 2: satisfied with that. But Schwab and Fidelity give their their

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Speaker 2: teams this flexibility to say, look, if the client's best

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Speaker 2: served with another advisor, go ahead and refer them. And

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Speaker 2: I think that, you know, Schwab and Fidelity when they

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Speaker 2: find that to be the case, I think they find

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Speaker 2: Creative to be pretty unique in our offering and our expertise.

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Speaker 2: And the client also doesn't lose anything, Right, They're still

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Speaker 2: at Schwab, they are Fidelity. They've still got the same

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Speaker 2: account number, they still have their website, they still got

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Speaker 2: their financial consultant in the branch. They just have an

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Speaker 2: advisor advising them on the account.

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Speaker 1: Now, true story. When we launched, we were using TD

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Speaker 1: as our custodian and we would go on like you do.

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Speaker 1: We'd go on road trips, we'd meet people, we'd meet

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Speaker 1: existing clients, we'd meet prospective clients. And after like the

433
00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:04,960
Speaker 1: twelfth time, someone said, hey, I'm with Schwab. There there's

434
00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:06,879
Speaker 1: where my money is held. Love to hire you as

435
00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:10,119
Speaker 1: an advisor, but it can only be on on Schwab,

436
00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:12,840
Speaker 1: Like you hear that a dozen times, and oh maybe

437
00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:16,000
Speaker 1: there's maybe we should add Schwab as a custodian. Now

438
00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:17,960
Speaker 1: we got a couple of billion dollars with them. But

439
00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:20,680
Speaker 1: to get to that point, like it was like, wait,

440
00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:24,800
Speaker 1: it's a custodian. Where is this intense loyalty coming from

441
00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:29,960
Speaker 1: Fidelity and especially Schwab, It's it's like nothing else I've

442
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:30,360
Speaker 1: ever seen.

443
00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:34,040
Speaker 2: Well, there's a I think, a very intense feeling of

444
00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:38,720
Speaker 2: safety and security and the brand carry both those brands

445
00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:41,919
Speaker 2: carry such you know, equity and you know what they should.

446
00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:43,560
Speaker 2: I mean, they've really delivered.

447
00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:46,119
Speaker 1: They've been around for half a century and done a

448
00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:48,520
Speaker 1: really good job. That's right, all right, So you mentioned

449
00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:52,280
Speaker 1: all the various services you offer, but when you began,

450
00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:56,320
Speaker 1: that wasn't the place you started from, right, You were

451
00:20:56,359 --> 00:21:00,639
Speaker 1: doing some estate planning and other legal services. Tell us

452
00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:05,280
Speaker 1: about the timeline that you went through adding these different services, Like,

453
00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:09,800
Speaker 1: when was that aha moment, Hey, let's just wrap everything

454
00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:12,800
Speaker 1: up in one nice package, put a bow on it,

455
00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:15,879
Speaker 1: and not have the client have to worry about any

456
00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:17,000
Speaker 1: financial issues.

457
00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:19,439
Speaker 2: Well, I mean the six years prior to Creative Planning

458
00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:21,800
Speaker 2: that I was doing you know, legal advice at one place,

459
00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:25,400
Speaker 2: tax another, planning and investments in another. So day one

460
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:27,680
Speaker 2: of owning Creative that was the first day. Like that,

461
00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:29,920
Speaker 2: that first day we were like, okay, we're doing wills

462
00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:32,119
Speaker 2: and trust we're doing financial plans, we're going to manage

463
00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:34,239
Speaker 2: your money. Will be the trustee if you need us

464
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:36,159
Speaker 2: to be. Now we was me and one other person.

465
00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:39,520
Speaker 2: But that's that's what we were on day one doing

466
00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:42,240
Speaker 2: those things. And what's really changed from then is this

467
00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:44,600
Speaker 2: the scale. You know, the number of people. I think

468
00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:47,000
Speaker 2: our tax group might be seven hundred people and the

469
00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:49,919
Speaker 2: law groups well over one hundred people. And so the

470
00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:53,800
Speaker 2: breadth and depth of expertise and the credentials and experience

471
00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:55,879
Speaker 2: and all of all of that. The special level of

472
00:21:55,880 --> 00:22:01,600
Speaker 2: specialization is you know, far beyond my wildest imagination back then.

473
00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:04,240
Speaker 2: But the offering itself, the core offering. That was day one.

474
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:08,000
Speaker 1: So when did you first add ahead of tax? When

475
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:10,760
Speaker 1: did you first add ahead of trust in the states

476
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:15,200
Speaker 1: or insurance? Because when two people are doing everything right,

477
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:19,560
Speaker 1: you know, it's such a challenge. But once you institutionalize

478
00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:23,200
Speaker 1: it with those hires, I would imagine everything began to explode.

479
00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:25,480
Speaker 2: Yeah. The first the first hire was someone to take

480
00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:27,840
Speaker 2: over you know, the day to day investing. The second

481
00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:31,480
Speaker 2: one was someone to take over the legal the next

482
00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:35,520
Speaker 2: was someone to take over insurance, then trust, and then

483
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:38,440
Speaker 2: lastly you know, tax, and so that over time, each

484
00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:40,760
Speaker 2: of those and of course when you get the right person,

485
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:42,080
Speaker 2: the growth explodes.

486
00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:44,560
Speaker 1: You know, how how long did that process take before

487
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:47,480
Speaker 1: you had those six key people in place?

488
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:51,440
Speaker 2: In the first few years, we had certain people in place,

489
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:52,960
Speaker 2: but they just weren't the right people right, So we

490
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:54,320
Speaker 2: had to get we had to get through to get

491
00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:56,159
Speaker 2: to the right leader of each over time, and that,

492
00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:59,440
Speaker 2: you know, really finishing it all out was only very recently.

493
00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:02,080
Speaker 2: We've added services along the way, but really getting it

494
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:04,920
Speaker 2: stabilized and going about two thousand and nine.

495
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:08,080
Speaker 1: And you even offer m and a consulting, I mean,

496
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:11,600
Speaker 1: tell us about that you have that many clients that

497
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:14,639
Speaker 1: are thinking about selling a business and need some help.

498
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:17,080
Speaker 2: Well, this is the advantage of scale. So I think

499
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:21,359
Speaker 2: about like with a number of clients, we have thousands

500
00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:25,640
Speaker 2: and thousands of them are business owners. So now you're

501
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:29,640
Speaker 2: talking about consulting, but we also do outsourced CFO, outsourced HR,

502
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:35,399
Speaker 2: we do bill pay, payroll, M and A managed it

503
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:40,080
Speaker 2: four oh and K cybersecurity testing. So that business owner

504
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:43,600
Speaker 2: client all those things that they care about protecting and

505
00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:46,480
Speaker 2: that are dollars sign related, they can look to the

506
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:49,120
Speaker 2: Creative Planning Business Services Unit to help them with that. Yeah,

507
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:52,400
Speaker 2: we definitely have enough clients to keep all those groups very,

508
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:53,000
Speaker 2: very busy.

509
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,280
Speaker 1: What about one of the hot new things is the

510
00:23:56,480 --> 00:24:01,440
Speaker 1: concier services for the ultra high net worth where you're

511
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:06,120
Speaker 1: essentially taking over all of their bill pay and everything

512
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:10,480
Speaker 1: from you know, buying a car to looking at real estate.

513
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:12,200
Speaker 1: How far do you go down that path?

514
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:14,720
Speaker 2: I would say that there's you know, it kind of

515
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:16,720
Speaker 2: reminds me of the saying about family offices. If you've

516
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,679
Speaker 2: seen one family office, you've seen one family office. Like

517
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:23,239
Speaker 2: some family offices they're doing tax for their family, some

518
00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 2: are doing just the investments, some are only doing the

519
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:28,520
Speaker 2: private investments. Some are actually doing the private investments in house,

520
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 2: kind of creating their own venture capital fund versus buying others.

521
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:34,880
Speaker 2: But most of them don't practice law, most of them

522
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:36,960
Speaker 2: don't practice tax. They keep track of the real estate,

523
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:40,399
Speaker 2: they handle some private investments. The capitol calls. Everybody's different.

524
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:43,440
Speaker 2: You know, the line for us is concierge services. I mean,

525
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:47,920
Speaker 2: that's a total nightmare. We remember talking to Oh my God,

526
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:50,879
Speaker 2: like this walk my dog and I need to take

527
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:53,000
Speaker 2: us to this show and whatever, to this restaurant. I mean,

528
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 2: that's like a full blown nightmare, right, And I have

529
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:58,399
Speaker 2: yet to see anyone do it successfully. I've talked to

530
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 2: some outfits that do it for athletes, and everyone's disappointed

531
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 2: all the time. Right, I mean, it's it's a very

532
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:06,679
Speaker 2: very difficult thing. That's not something I'm really interested in

533
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 2: doing for us. From the family office standpoint. We can

534
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:12,320
Speaker 2: handle someone's real estate, we can handle their oil and gas,

535
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 2: we can handle their bill, pay for them all. We

536
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 2: can help them as consulting on their business, but we're

537
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:20,400
Speaker 2: not going to like be walking the dog.

538
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:24,000
Speaker 1: Right. The closest I ever get to that is people

539
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:25,920
Speaker 1: know I'm a car guy. Every now and then someone

540
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,879
Speaker 1: has a really interesting car. Hey, the dealer offered me

541
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:31,800
Speaker 1: x on this. No, no, no, that's way too low.

542
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:34,360
Speaker 1: So let's bring it to bring a trailer. We'll get

543
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 1: you fifty grand more than that. And I've helped people

544
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,880
Speaker 1: actually sell cars that way and they've been thrilled that

545
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:44,160
Speaker 1: they're not getting a low bull offer from somebody, especially

546
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:47,000
Speaker 1: if it's something kind of interesting. But I don't want

547
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 1: to negotiate anybody's car leies for them, right, right, So

548
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 1: let's talk a little bit about some of the m

549
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:57,600
Speaker 1: and a you've done, you've acquired. Is it more than

550
00:25:57,640 --> 00:25:58,480
Speaker 1: forty farms? Now?

551
00:25:58,520 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 2: Is that's right?

552
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 1: Right? Yes, we've talked a little bit about culture. Let

553
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 1: me ask the inverse question, what's the non negotiables when

554
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 1: it comes to acquisition? What is like, sorry, we're gonna

555
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,679
Speaker 1: we're not gonna go beyond this line.

556
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:16,919
Speaker 2: So you know, there's basically four investment bankers in our

557
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 2: space that control maybe eighty ninety percent of the deals

558
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:22,160
Speaker 2: that are done, and I think they all know that.

559
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:24,920
Speaker 2: You know, we'll start out with a zoom with another firm.

560
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,840
Speaker 2: It will usually be short, and it will often end

561
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 2: short because there's not a connection. It's not gonna work.

562
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:33,159
Speaker 2: What I have found is that the leader of the

563
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 2: firm usually is indicative of the whole firm, Like very

564
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 2: rarely do you meet a jerk, and then the firm

565
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:42,560
Speaker 2: is a bunch of like wonderful people. Right, it's usually like,

566
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 2: really does emanate you know, from the leadership, And so

567
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 2: I am very focused on who these people are, what

568
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:52,639
Speaker 2: is their attitude, how do they communicate, and all of

569
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 2: those things, and so I'm looking for some sort of

570
00:26:55,080 --> 00:27:00,200
Speaker 2: indication of servant leadership or collaboration, a consultative nature, kindness

571
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 2: you know about them. I think that's the type of

572
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 2: business where we're in, like that consultative business. It's very different.

573
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:09,200
Speaker 2: Finances is very very broad, but there's hedge funds, mutual

574
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 2: funds estimated. Then they're dealing with people, right, So that's one,

575
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 2: very very big part of it. The other part is

576
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 2: they have to want to do what we do. Right,

577
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 2: We're not doing deals just to do deals. They have

578
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:20,679
Speaker 2: to be planning, lad, they have to want to provide

579
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,000
Speaker 2: all of these services to clients. They have to be

580
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:24,719
Speaker 2: able to go that extra mile of Okay, now I'm

581
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 2: going to help you with your legal and now I'm

582
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 2: going to do this tax question. It's not just going

583
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,719
Speaker 2: to be talking about investments. They have to adopt our

584
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:34,119
Speaker 2: investment philosophy, right, So they've got to be following the

585
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 2: path that we believe is the absolute best way for

586
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:38,880
Speaker 2: a high net worth investor to invest. So you do that,

587
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,639
Speaker 2: that eliminates I mean ninety five percent, right, And so

588
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 2: for us, we're left with a very small group. But

589
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 2: I think that's why our acquisitions tend to be so successful,

590
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:50,879
Speaker 2: is that small group we're left with. They really really

591
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:53,080
Speaker 2: want to be at creative planning, and we really really

592
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 2: want them to be at creative planning. And when we

593
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 2: see a firm come in, we see their growth on

594
00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:01,199
Speaker 2: average grow two to three hundred percent more, ninety nine

595
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:03,960
Speaker 2: hundred percent of their clients come over, their teams stay,

596
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 2: people are happy, and and it's a big win for everybody.

597
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 1: It certainly sounds like it. So the firm has been

598
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:13,159
Speaker 1: a little more focused on creating content lately. That's something

599
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:15,919
Speaker 1: I've noticed over the past couple of years. You have

600
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 1: a number of different employees posting, sending out market focused content.

601
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:22,720
Speaker 1: Tell us a little bit about how that became part

602
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:26,200
Speaker 1: of the firm's growth strategy and brand identity.

603
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 2: You know, well, there's this very inspiring guy, know that's

604
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:31,159
Speaker 2: that's built this brand around.

605
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:33,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I stumbled backwards into that. It was never

606
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 1: It began as just an itch. I had a scratch,

607
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 1: and then you know, multiplied.

608
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 2: From Yeah, you and Josh have been incredible. But you know,

609
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 2: I will say that for the longest time, I wrote

610
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 2: every single newsletter, right, and I enjoy writing, and maybe

611
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 2: did that for the first seventeen or eighteen years. A

612
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 2: lot of work eighteen years, but it's a lot of work,

613
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 2: and it's a lot of you. As you more and

614
00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 2: more things occupy your attention as a CEO, you've got

615
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 2: to decide, well, what I don't want to do it

616
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 2: not do well. It turns out there's a lot of

617
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 2: people that are smarter than me, right at creative planning, right, or.

618
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 1: At least better writers.

619
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:09,479
Speaker 2: I'm sure somebody. Yeah. So so basically I said, I'm

620
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 2: going to focus my attention on the books, which I

621
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 2: really like writing and like the one that just came out,

622
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 2: and then and the podcast So I've added more podcasts.

623
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 2: I do a podcast every month with my friend Jonathan Clements.

624
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 2: I do one every week with my friend Charlie Blello,

625
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 2: who he's unbelievable.

626
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 1: So Jonathan clements with the Wall Street Journal for decades.

627
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 1: That's right, great, great background. And Charlie Blello does some

628
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 1: great chart work. I see his stuff on.

629
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 2: Twitter, one of the kings of Twitter.

630
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:38,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's talk about the most recent book, Money Simplified.

631
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 1: First of all, is Money all that complicated? Why does

632
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:45,480
Speaker 1: it need to be simplified? And second, tell us what

633
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 1: else the book is about.

634
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 2: Well, I think it is incredible. I think it's more

635
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 2: complicated it needs to be. I think there are a

636
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 2: lot of people that don't understand it desperately want to

637
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 2: understand it better, and I think there are a lot

638
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 2: of people that are too embarrassed to admit they don't

639
00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 2: understand it. And so I wanted to write a book

640
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 2: that basically, if you were teenager, you could pick it

641
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 2: up and you could grasp most of the concepts and

642
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:04,720
Speaker 2: understand it. If you were a beginner, you have a

643
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:06,719
Speaker 2: book that would really say, Okay, this is really going

644
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:09,320
Speaker 2: to help me. And if you're a very sophisticated person,

645
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 2: but this just isn't your day job, that you could

646
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 2: get through this book in thirty minutes and go you

647
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 2: know what, I learned four or five things in here,

648
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 2: and so I basically took all what I thought were

649
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 2: the top like fifty sixty concepts of money and said,

650
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 2: I'm going to explain this as simple as possible and

651
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 2: with pictures you know as well. And it's it's been

652
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 2: well received. I've be happy with it.

653
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 1: Oh, that's great. Let's talk a little bit about the

654
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 1: RIA industry. You always seem to describe it as a

655
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 1: messy industry. Explain what you mean by that.

656
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 2: Oh, I think it's missing on so many different levels

657
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 2: because a lot of people you think broker or RIA,

658
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:47,240
Speaker 2: so that all the independent advisors, their fiduciaries, all their

659
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 2: firms are pretty similar. The firms couldn't be any more different.

660
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 2: There are so many different offerings within the space, so

661
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 2: many different ways of delivering, and the lines have gotten

662
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:00,240
Speaker 2: you know, very very muddied. And also now with so

663
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 2: much institutional money in the space, we see a lot

664
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 2: of you know, the frank and firm concepts has really

665
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 2: taken off in a big way too, so that you

666
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 2: see some of the biggest rias are really no different

667
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 2: than Morgan Stanley at this point. I mean, they have

668
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:16,480
Speaker 2: their own products, they have their duly registered and they're

669
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 2: they're making money on commission. I mean literally to me,

670
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,760
Speaker 2: it may as well be Morgan Stanley. They's there's no

671
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 2: difference from from what you experience. And then some arias

672
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 2: are just pure money managers, which is which is wonderful.

673
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 2: We need money managers. Some of them are wealth management

674
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 2: firms like Creative Planning, and some have multiple services, some don't.

675
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 2: Some are roll ups, some aren't. Some share their brands,

676
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 2: some don't. It's it's very very messy as when you

677
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 2: come into the space, you really have to spend some

678
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:46,720
Speaker 2: time if you're a client perspective client really trying to

679
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 2: understand what you're looking for and who fits your needs.

680
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 2: And if you're a firm and you're looking to sell,

681
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 2: I mean when you look at the main buyers, most

682
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 2: of them could not be any more different in their offering.

683
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 1: So you mentioned the phrase Frank is firm. I know

684
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 1: exactly what you mean, but why don't you define what

685
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 1: that is to the layperson who may not be so

686
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 1: familiar with that phrase.

687
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, So to me, a Frank and firm is just

688
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 2: you know, you look, I look at Creative Planning. We

689
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 2: spent fifteen years building something from scratch, right, so we

690
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 2: built a very strong tree trunk. We knew what kind

691
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 2: of tree it was, right, had branches, and then when

692
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 2: we made acquisitions, we put branches on the tree that

693
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 2: fit the tree right, and the people that were coming

694
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 2: knew where they fit on that tree, and we knew

695
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 2: where they fit on that tree. But most of the

696
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 2: large RaaS are really all acquisitions, right, from a very

697
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 2: small they're very small firms, they started to acquisitions. So

698
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 2: if you go to their fifty offices across the country,

699
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:43,959
Speaker 2: all fifty of them were acquisitions. So what do you get?

700
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 2: You get fifty different leaders with fifty different ways of

701
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 2: doing things, fifty different cultures, sometimes even different money management approaches.

702
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 2: It's an absolute mess, you know what I mean. I

703
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 2: think because the industry has grown so much and so

704
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:58,720
Speaker 2: many people have made so much money in this industry

705
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 2: that hasn't really been punished yet. But you know, in

706
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:05,520
Speaker 2: what industries it's punished eventually, all of them, right, Eventually,

707
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 2: Eventually the Franken firms don't work out. Eventually the arms

708
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 2: come falling off and the legs come falling off, and

709
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 2: you just can't fix them when they get too big.

710
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:17,720
Speaker 1: So let's talk about the genesis of that. Back in

711
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:22,720
Speaker 1: the twenty tens, not that far ago, in time when

712
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 1: the ten year was yielding one and a half percent,

713
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:28,680
Speaker 1: when there was just no yield on any sort of

714
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 1: fixed income rias were thrown off seven nine twelve percent

715
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 1: a year. Three four times a week, I would get

716
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:39,240
Speaker 1: a phone call from some private equity shop. Hey, listen,

717
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 1: we want to take a chunky We're looking to buy

718
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 1: ten percent, We're looking to buy twenty percent. What's your

719
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:46,520
Speaker 1: profit margin? We see your growth how much? And we're like,

720
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 1: we're still really growing. We're not looking to sell anything yet,

721
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 1: but call back in ten years, right. And I wonder,

722
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 1: given the fact that we had zero interest rates for

723
00:33:55,840 --> 00:34:00,680
Speaker 1: so long, I wonder how much those circumstances and all

724
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 1: the private equity cash sloshing around led to the rise

725
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 1: of all these francin firms.

726
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 2: Well, I think that's part of it, but I think

727
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,319
Speaker 2: it's way beyond that. It's a perfect storm of factors

728
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:13,560
Speaker 2: that really benefited the ra space. So number one, private

729
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 2: equity likes to go where money is moving, right, and

730
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 2: we've got money going from brokers to independence.

731
00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:20,719
Speaker 1: I mean that's been going off of fifteen to twenty years, and.

732
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:23,960
Speaker 2: They love massive trends. Right, Hey, this is happening, It's

733
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 2: going to continue to happen. This is a big thing

734
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:27,720
Speaker 2: in my favor. I can make a lot of mistakes

735
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 2: in this will work out. You've actually seen that payoff

736
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:32,400
Speaker 2: with some private equity firms is they've made some of

737
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 2: them made monumental mistakes. But even bad RaaS have done

738
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 2: well because of that mega trend. The second mega trend

739
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 2: is the transfer of wealth, the massive amount of wealth

740
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 2: you know that's moving hands. Now that's also betting been

741
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:50,760
Speaker 2: helping the RA space. A third trend is worth seeing

742
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:52,920
Speaker 2: consolidation in the space. So they like to be in

743
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 2: the early innings of consolidation of every single industry. If

744
00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:00,719
Speaker 2: you've got dentists consolidating, or HVAC company can sell. You know,

745
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 2: if you've got one little company, it's worth you certain

746
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 2: multiple of earnings, but if it's ten of those put together,

747
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:07,879
Speaker 2: it's worth more because the earnings are more diversified, they're

748
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,920
Speaker 2: more reliable. You only need one CFO, one hr person

749
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 2: all that stuff. So the RA space is highly fragmented,

750
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:16,320
Speaker 2: so they see a future if you look at the

751
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 2: custodians it's not highly fragmented. There's two and a few others.

752
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,400
Speaker 2: Investment banks there's two and a few others. Brokerage houses

753
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:24,879
Speaker 2: there's a few, and then no one else. Right, they

754
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 2: see the RA space is going to go through massive consolidation,

755
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:30,319
Speaker 2: and they're right, and we're seeing that now. And then

756
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:32,920
Speaker 2: you also see this massive trend of money moving from

757
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,920
Speaker 2: smaller RaaS to the multi billion dollar ras. People going, look,

758
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:38,600
Speaker 2: I want to feel safe. So all of these trends

759
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:41,320
Speaker 2: are mega trends. On top of that, you put private

760
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:44,440
Speaker 2: equity loves recurring revenue, right, I'd rather buy Netflix and

761
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:46,719
Speaker 2: Apple where people are paying every month. And the money

762
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:49,360
Speaker 2: management business is a recurring revenue business, and every aspect

763
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:51,360
Speaker 2: of it is we do taxes, that's recurring revenue. You

764
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:53,319
Speaker 2: have to file your taxes every year. We do bill

765
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 2: pay that's recurring revenue if you pay bills every year.

766
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:58,719
Speaker 2: So they love that recurring revenue business. And then there's

767
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:02,279
Speaker 2: an inflation hedge right built in just magically. So you

768
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 2: have all of these incredible trends that, look, you and

769
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:08,759
Speaker 2: I were not thinking about at all when we started, right,

770
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:10,360
Speaker 2: I was just saying, hey, how do I do this

771
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 2: in a better way tell clients. It was probably a

772
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:16,279
Speaker 2: good maybe twelve thirteen years before I got a call

773
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:19,480
Speaker 2: from anybody it even knew I had anything with any

774
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:23,239
Speaker 2: enterprise value whatsoever. I just thought, Hey, this is a

775
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:24,799
Speaker 2: great way to make, you know, make a living. I

776
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:26,759
Speaker 2: love what I'm doing all day. I've created this thing

777
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 2: that seems to be going over very well. But PE

778
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:33,319
Speaker 2: has really flooded this space, particularly in the last seven

779
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:35,120
Speaker 2: or eight years, and they've been right.

780
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:38,280
Speaker 1: So I wanted to come back to PE in a minute.

781
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:42,360
Speaker 1: But before we do that, let's talk about the solo

782
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:46,240
Speaker 1: practitioners or the small two, three, four, five person shop.

783
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:49,719
Speaker 1: You know, even with the wave of consolidation we saw

784
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:53,360
Speaker 1: in the twenty tens, there's still tens of thousands of

785
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:58,240
Speaker 1: small shops. I've heard some folks say they're all going away.

786
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:01,320
Speaker 1: That seems a little extreme. I've heard other people say

787
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:06,360
Speaker 1: this space is ripe for consolidation, mergers, acquisitions, et cetera.

788
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 1: How do you see the either the small firm or

789
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:11,560
Speaker 1: the solo practitioner over the next decade.

790
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:13,279
Speaker 2: Well, I think there are some people in our in

791
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:15,960
Speaker 2: our space that love to say that everyone's going to

792
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:18,080
Speaker 2: get crushed and go away. And it's very self surveying.

793
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 1: Send us your mind, Yeah, exactly, come to us.

794
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:24,479
Speaker 2: That's right. If you don't sell to us or hire

795
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:26,239
Speaker 2: me as you're a consultant or whatever, you're gonna die.

796
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:31,319
Speaker 2: That's ridiculous. There's room. You're gonna have to be better though, right,

797
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:33,399
Speaker 2: Like I think that, like you know, ten years ago,

798
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:36,840
Speaker 2: anybody could open a shop and do whatever. That world

799
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 2: is going away, right, So I think what we're going

800
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:42,200
Speaker 2: to have is you're going to have my best guess

801
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 2: on how this turns Out's like the tax world. Right,

802
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:47,720
Speaker 2: You're going to have one to four mega mega firms,

803
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 2: you'll have ten to twenty regional firms. You'll have a

804
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:56,400
Speaker 2: thousand smaller firms that either specialize in equestrian wealth management

805
00:37:56,640 --> 00:38:00,480
Speaker 2: or dental wealth management, or they cost less than others,

806
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:03,360
Speaker 2: or it's a very very premium service, or you're just

807
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:06,920
Speaker 2: really really personable person and you're able to maintain a

808
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 2: practice that way. But it will be harder, and I

809
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 2: think that it's going to be harder and harder to

810
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 2: compete with the firm that's lowering their fees, providing more services,

811
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:17,799
Speaker 2: has access to investments that maybe you can't get, maybe

812
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 2: can negotiate something with a third party, you can't negotiate,

813
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 2: but there will be a home. It's just that the

814
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:25,440
Speaker 2: bar is going to rise, just as with bigger firms.

815
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:28,120
Speaker 2: For those big firms to thrive, the bar is going

816
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 2: to have to be higher. It's not going to just

817
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:32,200
Speaker 2: be as simple as buy a bunch of firms in

818
00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:34,279
Speaker 2: the market goes up. I think that world's coming to

819
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:34,799
Speaker 2: an end too.

820
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:38,600
Speaker 1: Really interesting. So you made the decision to work with

821
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:43,000
Speaker 1: a private equity shop to help fuel your acquisitions. Tell

822
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:44,880
Speaker 1: us a little bit about what that experience was.

823
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, for us, we've never so General Atlantic

824
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:51,279
Speaker 2: is our minority owner. They own about seventeen percent of

825
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 2: Creative Planning. They've been wonderful partners, but we've never used

826
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:55,759
Speaker 2: any money from them to do an acquisition. And the

827
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:58,719
Speaker 2: reality is, you know, we're the fastest growing area in

828
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 2: the country, one of the large just ras in the country,

829
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:03,920
Speaker 2: and you know, that's a lot of eggs in one

830
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:06,279
Speaker 2: person's basket. So the decision was basically made, Hey, we

831
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 2: need to institutionalize this place and we need to reward

832
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:11,680
Speaker 2: the people that have come along on this journey. And

833
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:13,960
Speaker 2: so we brought in about five hundred employees are now

834
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 2: partners and that's.

835
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:17,799
Speaker 1: Oh really, I remember the last time you and I

836
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 1: sat down, you were literally one hundred percent owner.

837
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:21,399
Speaker 2: That's right.

838
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 1: There was no outside investment, that's right, No employees. You're

839
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:27,080
Speaker 1: morphing into something a little more employee owned.

840
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:30,680
Speaker 2: Yes, five hundred, yea five hundred and many of them

841
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 2: very very substantively. And then and then you've got General

842
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:36,600
Speaker 2: Anak in there. And then we brought in an institutional

843
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:39,480
Speaker 2: level CFO. We brought in Ernst and Young and and

844
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:41,759
Speaker 2: KPMG wanted to do our audit, wanted to do our tech.

845
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:45,239
Speaker 2: Basically just said, hey, look, we wanted the regulators to see, Look,

846
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:47,759
Speaker 2: we're taking this very seriously. We want our clients to

847
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 2: see we're taking this very seriously. We were doing acquisitions.

848
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:53,160
Speaker 2: We want somebody we're acquiring to see that as well.

849
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:56,800
Speaker 2: And it allowed for more easier internal succession in the

850
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:58,919
Speaker 2: event that something happens to me. And so there was

851
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:02,400
Speaker 2: was not motivated at all by using the capital at

852
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:04,399
Speaker 2: a third party to do anything, because they've never given

853
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:06,239
Speaker 2: us a dollar to do anything. They just bought into

854
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 2: the company and that was it.

855
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:10,680
Speaker 1: Any So it sounds like when you bring in an

856
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:15,840
Speaker 1: ian yan a KPMG that often is a predecessor step

857
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 1: to going public. I don't get the sense that's the

858
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 1: top of your list to become publicly traded.

859
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 2: No, it's not. I think that when you went in

860
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:27,279
Speaker 2: our scale, when we're negotiating with third parties to bring

861
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 2: an investment to a client or to get something for

862
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:33,520
Speaker 2: a client, you know, sometimes the partner wants to see

863
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:37,080
Speaker 2: some information and that information coming from one of the

864
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:39,560
Speaker 2: Big four is a much bigger deal than if it's

865
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:42,400
Speaker 2: coming for like my buddy across town that does my taxes,

866
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:45,279
Speaker 2: do you know what I mean? So that's really you know,

867
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 2: institutionalizing so many things made it easier to do a

868
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 2: lot of things, give a lot of people a lot

869
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 2: of comfort, and that was a very very good decision.

870
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 2: I have a lot of clients that I personally work

871
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:59,920
Speaker 2: with that are CEOs or CFOs of publicly traded company

872
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:03,080
Speaker 2: and I will never do that. I mean, if I

873
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:04,680
Speaker 2: if we had to go public, you know, for the

874
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:06,759
Speaker 2: best interest of our partners and whatever, we had to

875
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:08,880
Speaker 2: go public, I mean, I would do what I had

876
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:10,600
Speaker 2: to do, but I would not be in that seat

877
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:12,320
Speaker 2: for you know, ten years. I wouldn't be able to

878
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 2: do it pick chairman to a sacrifice.

879
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I could certainly see that being a challenge. So

880
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:24,040
Speaker 1: given where you are today, what are you looking at

881
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:27,480
Speaker 1: as the next leg of growth for creative planning?

882
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:30,480
Speaker 2: Well, I think today like we are very strong with

883
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:33,080
Speaker 2: the very wealthy and with the mass affluent. We've got

884
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:35,479
Speaker 2: an emerging wealth division. We're strong in the phone case space,

885
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:38,839
Speaker 2: and we're strong with business owners. We're working towards getting

886
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 2: stronger in the foundation uh space. And I think for

887
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:46,160
Speaker 2: us now, it's a question of just getting bigger locally,

888
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:48,520
Speaker 2: like where most of the places in the United States

889
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 2: where you see a major sports team will have an office.

890
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:54,200
Speaker 2: But we're still relatively small. I mean, the reality is

891
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:57,880
Speaker 2: we're small, So we only sound big when you compare

892
00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:01,160
Speaker 2: us to RAS. But the brokerage houses you know, Morgan

893
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 2: and Merrill and the investment ult Trillion Goldman, JP Morgan,

894
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 2: the Custodian Schwabatfela, these are trillions and trillionah, They're all

895
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:10,799
Speaker 2: two to twelve billion, trillion trillion with a T right,

896
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:14,279
Speaker 2: So we are a tiny, tiny fraction of that. We

897
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:16,520
Speaker 2: employ the same number of people as the high school

898
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:19,880
Speaker 2: close to my office, right, So in the ria space.

899
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:23,040
Speaker 2: It's significant, but it's not significant enough for the average

900
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:25,640
Speaker 2: American to know who creative planning is. And I think

901
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:27,439
Speaker 2: that's our objective is we want to be the gold

902
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:31,600
Speaker 2: standard nationally for the mass affluent and ultrafluent clients looking

903
00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:32,800
Speaker 2: for an independent wealth manager.

904
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:37,000
Speaker 1: So you rather famously you're known for not going to conferences.

905
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:41,719
Speaker 1: I have to ask, why is that? I really had

906
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:44,319
Speaker 1: to twist your arm to get you to go to

907
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:47,840
Speaker 1: the conference we did back in twenty nineteen. And I

908
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:51,400
Speaker 1: know you're coming to future Proof twenty twenty four in

909
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:56,479
Speaker 1: Huntington Beach in September, But why are you so down

910
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:57,800
Speaker 1: on conferences generally?

911
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:01,160
Speaker 2: So I've really I kind of got this repeat from

912
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:04,480
Speaker 2: I can't maybe as Investment News or somebody did a

913
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:07,759
Speaker 2: story about this and they were asking competitors about me,

914
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:09,880
Speaker 2: and it was it was kind of like, well, they

915
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 2: didn't say Peter is a jerk, it was, but it

916
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:13,920
Speaker 2: came across like, well, Peter's just like too big of

917
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:16,239
Speaker 2: a jerk to go to these conferences or something like that.

918
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 2: But really, the I learned very early on from my clients.

919
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:21,400
Speaker 2: I learned so much from my clients that you know,

920
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:24,600
Speaker 2: a yes to something is a note of something else. Right,

921
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:27,000
Speaker 2: So when you're committing to a conference, you're you're not

922
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:30,400
Speaker 2: usually committing like two days in advance, right, you're committing

923
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:33,080
Speaker 2: six months in advance. Right, That's right, And that's a

924
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:35,440
Speaker 2: big deal if you if you have kids, like I

925
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:37,440
Speaker 2: don't like to commit to things that are far in

926
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:41,200
Speaker 2: the future that I cannot move, right, And so I

927
00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:43,200
Speaker 2: made that. That's part one of the decisions. The other

928
00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:45,319
Speaker 2: part of the decision is I think and look, I

929
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:48,319
Speaker 2: know you put on conferences. Yours are wonderful. Most of

930
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:50,160
Speaker 2: them suck, you know what I mean, Like most of

931
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:53,120
Speaker 2: the time you're going and everyone just really wants to

932
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:55,319
Speaker 2: get away from home and drink and hang out and

933
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:57,719
Speaker 2: go for a hike or go golfing or whatever. And

934
00:43:57,800 --> 00:43:59,600
Speaker 2: I look at that, like two days or three days

935
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:01,879
Speaker 2: or four day and go, Man if I spent that

936
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:05,480
Speaker 2: twenty or thirty hours, uh, you know at night with

937
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 2: my family and during the day with actual clients and

938
00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:11,080
Speaker 2: employees one on one, where am I going to get

939
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 2: more value? I'm going to learn more, not not just

940
00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:15,520
Speaker 2: serve people more. I'm going to learn more being present.

941
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 2: So I have that attitude too. Now my youngest start

942
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:20,279
Speaker 2: graduating from high school. So I'm you know, I think

943
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:22,160
Speaker 2: the last what I agreed to do, I think was

944
00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:24,480
Speaker 2: with you five years ago. That's right, And the next

945
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:27,399
Speaker 2: thing I'm about to do is with your colleague Josh here,

946
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:27,799
Speaker 2: with with.

947
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:31,160
Speaker 1: Your with your right. The fun part about that, the

948
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:33,080
Speaker 1: whole thing is out doing Yeah, no, that looks that

949
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:33,640
Speaker 1: looks cool.

950
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:35,359
Speaker 2: And you have I mean, that's the lineup of all

951
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:37,080
Speaker 2: lineups right that you have. So that's going to be

952
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:40,040
Speaker 2: very very interesting one and it's obviously a very different

953
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 2: spin than everybody else. But I also know, you know,

954
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:44,239
Speaker 2: my kids aren't going to be home, right, so it's

955
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:46,879
Speaker 2: a much easier, easier thing to do for a couple

956
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:47,320
Speaker 2: of days.

957
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:51,800
Speaker 1: So the secret is to plan conferences when Peter's children

958
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:55,520
Speaker 1: are otherwise occupied. Otherwise you get no shot. We did

959
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:58,200
Speaker 1: that very much on purpose, So I know I only

960
00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:01,719
Speaker 1: have you for so much time. Before I get to

961
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:04,680
Speaker 1: my favorite questions I ask all my guests, I have

962
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:09,080
Speaker 1: to throw you a curveball question. You're a minority owner

963
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:12,239
Speaker 1: of the Kansas City Royals. I have to ask how

964
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:15,879
Speaker 1: that came about, because I know your background with them.

965
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:18,759
Speaker 1: How did you end up as a minority owner of

966
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:20,000
Speaker 1: a Major League Baseball team.

967
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:21,719
Speaker 2: I mean this sounds cliche, but I mean when I

968
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:23,520
Speaker 2: was a little kid, I would literally listen to them

969
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:25,640
Speaker 2: to the radio while I was falling asleep. They used

970
00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:27,440
Speaker 2: to start at seven thirty five PM all the time.

971
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:29,759
Speaker 2: There was none of this three o'clock game and weekdays

972
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:32,239
Speaker 2: or six o'clock GA. It was seven thirty five and

973
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:35,080
Speaker 2: they played till usually eleven. The games were really long.

974
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:37,360
Speaker 2: I'd listen to them every night. The Royals were amazing

975
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:40,200
Speaker 2: back then, George Brett, Frank White, Willie Wilson playing the

976
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:43,600
Speaker 2: Yankees every year in the playoffs. Huge, huge, huge fan.

977
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:47,960
Speaker 2: And then in high school I wound up I talk

978
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:49,720
Speaker 2: to my dad and taking me out there to interview

979
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:51,800
Speaker 2: for a job. And I was interviewing. They're like, what

980
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:52,719
Speaker 2: do you want to do. I'm like, I want to

981
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:54,080
Speaker 2: be a bat boy for the Royals. I think I

982
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 2: just started laughing, right. He's like, no, I thought You're interviewing,

983
00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:57,279
Speaker 2: like do you want to sell peanuts or do you

984
00:45:57,320 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 2: want to sell you know, strawberries? But what are you

985
00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:01,960
Speaker 2: going to the aisles and sell? It's like I don't

986
00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:03,200
Speaker 2: want to do that. We're walking out and the guy

987
00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:05,359
Speaker 2: yells he goes, Hey, I call the clubhouse and they

988
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:07,160
Speaker 2: have an opening for a clubby. I didn't know what

989
00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:09,160
Speaker 2: a clubb he was. But the club he's the guys,

990
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:11,720
Speaker 2: like what cleans the shines the shoes for the players,

991
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:13,120
Speaker 2: does their lot. There's this whole route.

992
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:14,400
Speaker 1: You literally do their laundry.

993
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:16,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, literally do it. It's this is fascinating.

994
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:21,399
Speaker 1: I delivered fried chicken at City Royal players. Was out

995
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:22,960
Speaker 1: during a game sitting on the bench.

996
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:24,879
Speaker 2: That was That was Wade Bogs. That was the way

997
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:27,200
Speaker 2: Bogs they did that for but they Bruce It was.

998
00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:30,400
Speaker 2: It's crazy and so but I was upset because the

999
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:32,319
Speaker 2: clubby job wasn't for the Royals, it was for the

1000
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:34,279
Speaker 2: visiting clubhouse, and I was upset about that. But then

1001
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:36,160
Speaker 2: I took the job, and it turns out you get

1002
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:37,719
Speaker 2: to know all the Royals. Plus you get to meet

1003
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 2: all the players in the American League because you're playing

1004
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:41,799
Speaker 2: every team in the American League and you were getting

1005
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:44,640
Speaker 2: tipped every series. So I was making a fortune, I

1006
00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:47,360
Speaker 2: mean a fortunate it's getting all these autographs, got to

1007
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:49,799
Speaker 2: know all these players. But the routine before the game

1008
00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:51,520
Speaker 2: is nuts. I mean, they show up way earlier than

1009
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:54,319
Speaker 2: most people. Think and hours hours hours ahead of time,

1010
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:56,960
Speaker 2: and then they go and they you know, head and

1011
00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:59,120
Speaker 2: field or whatever. Then they come in and they they

1012
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:01,200
Speaker 2: drop all their law on the floor and they change

1013
00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:04,239
Speaker 2: their their cleats and then they get into their new

1014
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:06,440
Speaker 2: you know, jerseys and new cleats, and then they go

1015
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:08,520
Speaker 2: out and play the game, and you're shining their old

1016
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:12,720
Speaker 2: cleats and washing their old jerseys, and then you're getting

1017
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 2: their lockers organized. Then you've got like the third eighty

1018
00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:16,640
Speaker 2: of the sixth inning to walk around the stadium. Then

1019
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:18,880
Speaker 2: you're going and getting dinner ready for them and their beers.

1020
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:21,279
Speaker 2: Then after the game they all drink and eat and

1021
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:23,399
Speaker 2: take their showers, do their interviews, and then they leave,

1022
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:25,680
Speaker 2: and then you wash their clothes and shine their shoes,

1023
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:28,200
Speaker 2: and organize their lockers and put the food away and

1024
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:30,160
Speaker 2: drive the ones home that were you know, hammered and

1025
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:32,200
Speaker 2: stayed late, and you take them to the Adams Mark

1026
00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:35,160
Speaker 2: Hotel across the streets. So when the Royals came for sale,

1027
00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:37,200
Speaker 2: they were putting together a conglomerate in Kansas City. And

1028
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:40,719
Speaker 2: I remember when John Sherman, who's the primary owner, he's

1029
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:43,600
Speaker 2: the greatest guy, and he's like giving a walk you

1030
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:45,359
Speaker 2: through I'm like, John, I don't need you to walk

1031
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:47,279
Speaker 2: me through this deck, and he's like, I'm gonna walk you.

1032
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:50,040
Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm one hundred percent in, Like I'm just

1033
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:53,080
Speaker 2: Kansas City through and through, Royals through and through, and

1034
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:55,600
Speaker 2: I just it was like a not even a thought

1035
00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:56,040
Speaker 2: about it.

1036
00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:58,239
Speaker 1: All right, So let's jump to our favorite questions that

1037
00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:00,800
Speaker 1: we ask all our guests. Yeah, except I'm going to

1038
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:04,200
Speaker 1: modify this because I know some things about you and

1039
00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:07,959
Speaker 1: two of these questions won't work for you. But let's

1040
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:11,760
Speaker 1: start with who are your mentors who helped shape your career?

1041
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 2: You know my mentors aren't you know, famous people. I

1042
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:18,680
Speaker 2: really just early on got to work with somebody who

1043
00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:20,880
Speaker 2: has just had the most positive attitude in the world,

1044
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:23,439
Speaker 2: and he was just so gracious with everybody around him.

1045
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:27,760
Speaker 2: And I saw the impact that that had on everybody

1046
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:29,440
Speaker 2: around him all the time, you know, with his with

1047
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:31,680
Speaker 2: his family, as friends, his colleagues at work, and it

1048
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:35,480
Speaker 2: really showed me, you know, how important that piece is

1049
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:39,600
Speaker 2: to the puzzle. He was not brilliant from a finance perspective,

1050
00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:41,480
Speaker 2: and I also worked with someone who was brilliant from

1051
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:44,720
Speaker 2: a finance perspective but was not positive with the people

1052
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 2: around him, and the combination of the two was really

1053
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:51,400
Speaker 2: the ultimate, you know, lesson. And I just combined that

1054
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:54,520
Speaker 2: with my parents kind of that classic immigrant you know,

1055
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:58,040
Speaker 2: work like crazy, love everything about your country all the time,

1056
00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:01,720
Speaker 2: no matter what I think, just that the positive attitude

1057
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:04,080
Speaker 2: my parents. Every wedding they left was always the best

1058
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:06,320
Speaker 2: wedding they'd ever been to, right. And so I remember,

1059
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:09,440
Speaker 2: right a girlfriend in college who were driving home and

1060
00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:11,839
Speaker 2: her parents were like making fun of something from some

1061
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:13,879
Speaker 2: wedding we were out of. I've never heard anything like it,

1062
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:15,960
Speaker 2: but that's like, turns out that's kind of normal, right,

1063
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:19,000
Speaker 2: But just being around people that were so positive and

1064
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:21,440
Speaker 2: so negative, so hyper both as the spectrum. I think

1065
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:23,239
Speaker 2: that was probably the biggest lesson for me. I don't

1066
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:25,799
Speaker 2: think people need to have People always think they have

1067
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:27,680
Speaker 2: to have a mentor. That's like I get calls all

1068
00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:30,239
Speaker 2: the time, well like you mentor me, Like, and I go,

1069
00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:30,879
Speaker 2: what does that mean?

1070
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:31,160
Speaker 1: Oh?

1071
00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:32,880
Speaker 2: Well get a lunch every month? And you know you

1072
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:35,120
Speaker 2: can't do that with everybody, right, right, But in the

1073
00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:38,080
Speaker 2: world you're we're in today, I mean a mentor could

1074
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:39,160
Speaker 2: be on Twitter, do.

1075
00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:42,080
Speaker 1: You mean right? Oh, you can absolutely have remote mens

1076
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:43,960
Speaker 1: they don't have to they don't even have to know

1077
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 1: they're mentoring.

1078
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:46,640
Speaker 2: That's exactly correct, that's correctly.

1079
00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:49,440
Speaker 1: And I've heard some stories about people who have said

1080
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:52,239
Speaker 1: some people on the show have said, well, these three

1081
00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:54,719
Speaker 1: people have been my mentors. They have no idea about it, right,

1082
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:58,279
Speaker 1: and it's really really interesting. So normally I would ask

1083
00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:00,920
Speaker 1: you what's keeping you into taine, what are you reading,

1084
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:03,520
Speaker 1: what are you streaming? But with you, I want to

1085
00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:06,120
Speaker 1: ask tell me about the music shows you've been going to.

1086
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:09,480
Speaker 1: What have you been doing in your evenings in your

1087
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:10,120
Speaker 1: spare time.

1088
00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:12,359
Speaker 2: So following you on Twitter, I know you're a big

1089
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:15,000
Speaker 2: concert guy. It seems like your genre is like seventies

1090
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:15,640
Speaker 2: is that pretty?

1091
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:19,200
Speaker 1: So I have really broad taste. It's the great Sarah

1092
00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:23,440
Speaker 1: McLaughlan too, like yeah, yeah, so so wow you really Yeah.

1093
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:26,120
Speaker 1: So it's the Great American Songbook and everybody from El

1094
00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:30,000
Speaker 1: Fitzgerald to Frank Sinatra to classic rock to eighties and

1095
00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:35,520
Speaker 1: nineties to jazz to classical to blues, like even hip

1096
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:38,759
Speaker 1: hop up until like my line in the sand is

1097
00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:42,080
Speaker 1: the Beastie Boys pull polls boutique. That's kind of where

1098
00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:46,160
Speaker 1: I stopped. But but I'll listen.

1099
00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:48,520
Speaker 2: To Pope three years or something like that.

1100
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:51,240
Speaker 1: I'll listen to pop, I'll listen to Taylor Swift, any

1101
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:54,120
Speaker 1: of the big singers. Yeah, what's your musical genre?

1102
00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:57,080
Speaker 2: So it's been great having you know. So I used

1103
00:50:57,120 --> 00:50:59,040
Speaker 2: to own music stores in college, and I used to

1104
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:02,960
Speaker 2: DJ even after college, weddings, everything else. And one of

1105
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:04,279
Speaker 2: the things you do in a music story till the

1106
00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:06,759
Speaker 2: times you would just play every album that ever came in, right,

1107
00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:10,360
Speaker 2: So it became a very expansive list of things I

1108
00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:12,080
Speaker 2: would be willing to go to. And really, really the

1109
00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:13,719
Speaker 2: only genre I was not a big fan of that

1110
00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:15,839
Speaker 2: was major was country, but my kids have changed that

1111
00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:17,360
Speaker 2: for me. So now I've been to Luke Cobs and

1112
00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:20,680
Speaker 2: Morgan Wallen, which would say we're the best concerts.

1113
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:22,239
Speaker 1: But those are very news.

1114
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:25,960
Speaker 2: That's not like that, not Hank Williams, right, right.

1115
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:28,480
Speaker 1: Very interesting. It's like country rock.

1116
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:30,440
Speaker 2: Right, David Allen Cob was pretty cool. But I mean

1117
00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:32,400
Speaker 2: most of the old old stuff is not is not

1118
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:33,160
Speaker 2: for me, you.

1119
00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:36,840
Speaker 1: Like, So when I think of Lennard Skinner to Woman

1120
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:42,759
Speaker 1: Brothers or Marshall Tucker, those are old rock with the country. Well,

1121
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:45,879
Speaker 1: you're describing his country with a rock influence correct, Yes,

1122
00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:49,440
Speaker 1: very yeah, I mean I could correct genre.

1123
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:51,200
Speaker 2: That's right. I used. I've used my daughter as a

1124
00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:53,400
Speaker 2: cover to go to the every Taylor swift concert that

1125
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:54,560
Speaker 2: she's you have. Yeah.

1126
00:51:54,640 --> 00:51:57,960
Speaker 1: So my favorite thing I saw on Twitter last week

1127
00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:00,760
Speaker 1: was and he told the story Home Breaks the Allans.

1128
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:05,440
Speaker 1: The other day, Mohammed Alarian got all the women and

1129
00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:08,600
Speaker 1: the Swifties and his family in Paris to go see

1130
00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:12,239
Speaker 1: a show. And it was his wife, his daughters and

1131
00:52:12,239 --> 00:52:15,280
Speaker 1: a bunch of their friends. And the last minute, he said,

1132
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:19,439
Speaker 1: somebody canceled, so he puts on a pink Sure, and

1133
00:52:19,560 --> 00:52:22,640
Speaker 1: he goes and somebody recognized him, took a photo of

1134
00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:25,520
Speaker 1: and it went a little viral.

1135
00:52:25,719 --> 00:52:28,600
Speaker 2: I saw that, Actually, hilario, that is hilarious.

1136
00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:30,719
Speaker 1: How many? How many? I would never have picked you

1137
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:34,480
Speaker 1: for a Swiftie. Although I find her music fun and interesting.

1138
00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:37,120
Speaker 2: Well, I think I think she's she's got to be

1139
00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:39,920
Speaker 2: the best all around artist of this generation.

1140
00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:40,439
Speaker 1: Sure.

1141
00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:43,800
Speaker 2: And the first time I went and saw my daughter

1142
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:45,600
Speaker 2: was very very young, and it was her first tour,

1143
00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:47,279
Speaker 2: and I remember that I was like, Oh, there's this

1144
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:49,520
Speaker 2: guy of guitar. He seems pretty interesting. That's opening. You know,

1145
00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:52,680
Speaker 2: no one was paying attention, right, and it was edgeering,

1146
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:55,680
Speaker 2: it was was hilarious. Yeah, so, and so I got

1147
00:52:55,680 --> 00:52:57,399
Speaker 2: to see that and then I'm you know, you get

1148
00:52:57,400 --> 00:52:59,440
Speaker 2: a little nostalgic as you get older, so you start

1149
00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:01,439
Speaker 2: going to com or she wouldn't even go to when

1150
00:53:01,640 --> 00:53:04,239
Speaker 2: these bands were around. Absolutely, So I'm doing that all

1151
00:53:04,560 --> 00:53:08,160
Speaker 2: the time too, Like Sarah Maclachlin's on my coundar the bleachers,

1152
00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:10,520
Speaker 2: who are they rolled out of fun? I know the

1153
00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:14,359
Speaker 2: bleacher you know. I'll go see Lionel Richie soon. Gotta

1154
00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:15,960
Speaker 2: go see Bruce Springsteen again.

1155
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:18,799
Speaker 1: Right, So are you gonna catch the Rolling Stones on

1156
00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:19,239
Speaker 1: this tour?

1157
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:21,000
Speaker 2: You know, I'm not a Rolling Stones.

1158
00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:23,040
Speaker 1: I'm a Giant fan and I just don't want to

1159
00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:23,799
Speaker 1: go to Giant state.

1160
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:26,360
Speaker 2: Oh I'd like to see them play Sympathy for the

1161
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:27,399
Speaker 2: Devil and then go home.

1162
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:30,920
Speaker 1: I saw them in Atlantic City on the Steel Wheels tour.

1163
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:33,440
Speaker 1: It's like an eight thousand seat hall and it was

1164
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:36,799
Speaker 1: it was awesome. But the bands that you might not

1165
00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:40,400
Speaker 1: have seen. I have this discussion with people all the time.

1166
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:44,960
Speaker 1: Never hole an Oates fan. Yeah, we saw John Oates

1167
00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:48,480
Speaker 1: in like a time, like a four hundred seat room.

1168
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:53,680
Speaker 1: He's like people who can fill stadiums. They are entertainers

1169
00:53:53,719 --> 00:53:56,399
Speaker 1: and they know how to entertain and you're getting a

1170
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:58,719
Speaker 1: stadium show with five hundred people.

1171
00:53:58,760 --> 00:53:59,560
Speaker 2: That's pretty awesome.

1172
00:54:00,719 --> 00:54:02,600
Speaker 1: You know. We see Ricky Lee Jones every time she

1173
00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:06,960
Speaker 1: comes through town. Yeah, also small venue, she's amazing, Amy

1174
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:08,240
Speaker 1: man Or go down the list.

1175
00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:10,640
Speaker 2: So I love that. So Ario speedwack In it was touring.

1176
00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:14,000
Speaker 2: They're doing like huge you know, stadium arenas whatever, and

1177
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:16,640
Speaker 2: but they most of these bands do like their opening

1178
00:54:16,680 --> 00:54:19,640
Speaker 2: shows kind of like a quiet practice show. So the

1179
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:23,120
Speaker 2: beginning of their tour was in Salaina, Kansas, just like

1180
00:54:23,160 --> 00:54:26,319
Speaker 2: a tiny town five hours away, and they did this

1181
00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:29,200
Speaker 2: little arena that holds maybe I don't know, two thousand people,

1182
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:33,480
Speaker 2: like Tony's Pizza Arena or something. So I went there.

1183
00:54:33,560 --> 00:54:35,319
Speaker 2: My friends are like, they're coming to can't see. I mean,

1184
00:54:35,320 --> 00:54:36,879
Speaker 2: this is gonna be I was thinking, this is gonna

1185
00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:39,120
Speaker 2: be awesome, you know, just and sure enough it was

1186
00:54:39,239 --> 00:54:41,120
Speaker 2: just absolutely incredible.

1187
00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:43,880
Speaker 1: Anytime you get to see a big name, yes in

1188
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:48,040
Speaker 1: a small or even though like so, I haven't seen Journey,

1189
00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:51,719
Speaker 1: but I know they're but I'll tell you who. And again,

1190
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:54,919
Speaker 1: a lot of this is sixties, seventies, eighties, I've seen

1191
00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:58,920
Speaker 1: Steve Miller a couple of times in small venues. He's amazing.

1192
00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:03,239
Speaker 1: We saw Peter Frampton. I mean, Frampton Comes Alive was

1193
00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:05,560
Speaker 1: the best selling live album for like, I don't know

1194
00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:07,880
Speaker 1: how many decades it may still as far as I know,

1195
00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:09,880
Speaker 1: that may still be the best selling live album of

1196
00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:13,160
Speaker 1: all time. Seeing him in like with three thousand people,

1197
00:55:13,719 --> 00:55:17,479
Speaker 1: he was feeling, you know, giant. Who else have you seen?

1198
00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:20,000
Speaker 2: Oh god, I'm just trying to think. I saw The

1199
00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:23,160
Speaker 2: Killers recently. That was one of my favorites for sure.

1200
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:28,640
Speaker 2: They were incredible. I just saw last week a band

1201
00:55:28,680 --> 00:55:30,600
Speaker 2: called Cake, which is like.

1202
00:55:30,560 --> 00:55:39,320
Speaker 1: A reluctantly crashed at the starting line. So comfort eagle.

1203
00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:41,680
Speaker 2: They were amazing.

1204
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:44,200
Speaker 1: I have three or four albums of theirs, and they're

1205
00:55:44,200 --> 00:55:48,319
Speaker 1: all spectacular. That's right, spectacular. Let me let me give

1206
00:55:48,360 --> 00:55:51,840
Speaker 1: you the two that will make you jealous. John Fogerty

1207
00:55:51,880 --> 00:55:54,839
Speaker 1: at Radio City his open tour. By the way, his

1208
00:55:54,960 --> 00:55:57,120
Speaker 1: two sons are his backup band.

1209
00:55:57,320 --> 00:55:59,840
Speaker 2: Oh that's cool. So I learned how old I was

1210
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:01,319
Speaker 2: ding when I went to a couple of concerts. I

1211
00:56:01,320 --> 00:56:03,399
Speaker 2: saw Cheap Trick, who I think best rock and roll

1212
00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:05,879
Speaker 2: song of all time is Surrender. I'll die on this hill.

1213
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:08,879
Speaker 2: But anyway, they were playing and the son, his son

1214
00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:11,600
Speaker 2: was the guitarist. And then the next week I saw

1215
00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:16,440
Speaker 2: the Eagles and as you know, Glenn Frey passed away,

1216
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:20,440
Speaker 2: but his son replaced him and sounds like, sounds exactly like,

1217
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:24,120
Speaker 2: plays the same guitar. And then, oh gosh, then I

1218
00:56:24,160 --> 00:56:26,520
Speaker 2: saw the Food Fighters the next week and his daughter

1219
00:56:26,640 --> 00:56:29,040
Speaker 2: comes on and say, you know, Dave Grohl's daughter comes

1220
00:56:29,040 --> 00:56:30,920
Speaker 2: on and sings a song. I told my wife, I'm like,

1221
00:56:31,120 --> 00:56:33,560
Speaker 2: we are I am so old you know that I'm

1222
00:56:33,560 --> 00:56:37,000
Speaker 2: now watching like these bands kids play right there.

1223
00:56:37,120 --> 00:56:39,959
Speaker 1: That's right. James Taylor brings his kids out to sing

1224
00:56:39,960 --> 00:56:42,239
Speaker 1: with him. He's got a son and a daughter.

1225
00:56:42,040 --> 00:56:44,200
Speaker 2: And him about two months.

1226
00:56:44,239 --> 00:56:47,040
Speaker 1: His tour is always great, the one that might make

1227
00:56:47,080 --> 00:56:48,960
Speaker 1: you jealous. I don't know if this is exactly you

1228
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:51,239
Speaker 1: a genre, and I don't even know how I got

1229
00:56:51,280 --> 00:56:54,680
Speaker 1: these tickets. But at the Bowery Ballroom, which is like

1230
00:56:54,760 --> 00:56:58,240
Speaker 1: a basement that holds two hundred people, I saw Chrissy

1231
00:56:58,320 --> 00:56:59,240
Speaker 1: Hines and the Pretender.

1232
00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:01,040
Speaker 2: Oh you know they're come and I can't say next month,

1233
00:57:01,480 --> 00:57:01,839
Speaker 2: can I.

1234
00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:05,480
Speaker 1: Tell you something? Go see the show? She is great.

1235
00:57:05,640 --> 00:57:09,680
Speaker 1: The replacement musicians you got, They're just they're just really

1236
00:57:10,719 --> 00:57:13,960
Speaker 1: really awesome. And I'll see I'll see Steely Dan every

1237
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:16,840
Speaker 1: time they come through town. Like, I'm definitely on the

1238
00:57:16,960 --> 00:57:20,760
Speaker 1: verge of you know, the boomer music. We just saw it.

1239
00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:24,720
Speaker 1: Neil Young at Forest Hills Outdoors always just great, what

1240
00:57:24,800 --> 00:57:27,440
Speaker 1: a great show. Yeah, all right, so so much with

1241
00:57:27,840 --> 00:57:31,280
Speaker 1: fun with music. Let's jump to our last two questions

1242
00:57:32,080 --> 00:57:35,720
Speaker 1: that people seem to really like, which is what sort

1243
00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:38,240
Speaker 1: of advice would you give to a recent college grad

1244
00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:43,880
Speaker 1: interested in a career in either investment management or becoming

1245
00:57:43,880 --> 00:57:44,520
Speaker 1: an advisor?

1246
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:47,640
Speaker 2: So I would tell them pick your starting place very carefully,

1247
00:57:47,720 --> 00:57:49,280
Speaker 2: pick the firm that you're going to go to out

1248
00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:51,800
Speaker 2: of the beginning, because that can really start to dictate

1249
00:57:51,840 --> 00:57:53,600
Speaker 2: your destiny. Right, do you want to be in the

1250
00:57:53,640 --> 00:57:55,640
Speaker 2: brokera's side, do you want to be on the independent side.

1251
00:57:55,680 --> 00:57:59,479
Speaker 2: Do you enjoy sales? Do you enjoy advising? Really try

1252
00:57:59,560 --> 00:58:02,160
Speaker 2: to get to the right place as close to the

1253
00:58:02,200 --> 00:58:04,880
Speaker 2: right role as possible. If you're given a choice like, hey,

1254
00:58:05,360 --> 00:58:08,160
Speaker 2: you can make X thousand dollars and be in this group,

1255
00:58:08,240 --> 00:58:09,720
Speaker 2: or you can make more and be in that group,

1256
00:58:09,840 --> 00:58:11,880
Speaker 2: choose the group that is more where you want to

1257
00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:15,480
Speaker 2: be In the long run, I found that proximity is

1258
00:58:15,520 --> 00:58:18,600
Speaker 2: a very big indicator of success. You know who y're around.

1259
00:58:18,680 --> 00:58:20,240
Speaker 2: Are you in the right company? Are you around the

1260
00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:22,440
Speaker 2: right people. If you're at the right company with the

1261
00:58:22,480 --> 00:58:24,560
Speaker 2: right people and you do the right things, great things

1262
00:58:24,560 --> 00:58:26,200
Speaker 2: are going to happen. But you can do the right thing,

1263
00:58:26,720 --> 00:58:28,560
Speaker 2: be in the wrong company or not around the right people,

1264
00:58:28,600 --> 00:58:30,640
Speaker 2: it's not going to work. So those first decisions are

1265
00:58:30,640 --> 00:58:31,200
Speaker 2: really important.

1266
00:58:31,240 --> 00:58:34,680
Speaker 1: Huh, really really interesting. And our final question, what do

1267
00:58:34,680 --> 00:58:39,440
Speaker 1: you know about the world of investment management, financial planning,

1268
00:58:39,800 --> 00:58:44,400
Speaker 1: building a firm entrepreneurship today that might have been helpful

1269
00:58:44,680 --> 00:58:47,040
Speaker 1: twenty five thirty years ago when you were first getting started.

1270
00:58:47,080 --> 00:58:48,960
Speaker 2: Well, I think when I you know, when we started

1271
00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:51,760
Speaker 2: doing what we were doing twenty years ago, we were

1272
00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:53,280
Speaker 2: doing I set it up that I want to do

1273
00:58:53,320 --> 00:58:55,320
Speaker 2: all these things in one place now, this investment of lolosophy,

1274
00:58:55,320 --> 00:58:56,560
Speaker 2: because I thought it was the right thing to do

1275
00:58:56,600 --> 00:58:58,720
Speaker 2: for the client. I thought it was fun to give

1276
00:58:58,760 --> 00:59:01,120
Speaker 2: advice that way. The people really benefited from it, got

1277
00:59:01,120 --> 00:59:03,520
Speaker 2: a lot of positive feedback. But I didn't really think

1278
00:59:03,560 --> 00:59:08,040
Speaker 2: about it being an enterprise that became accidental and really

1279
00:59:08,080 --> 00:59:10,040
Speaker 2: the effort to go Hey, this is an enterprise. We

1280
00:59:10,080 --> 00:59:13,720
Speaker 2: could really you know, grow this in that strategic way

1281
00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:16,320
Speaker 2: probably came about ten years later. You know, if I

1282
00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:18,480
Speaker 2: had a time machine, I would have made that light

1283
00:59:18,520 --> 00:59:22,280
Speaker 2: bulb go off on day one and accelerated a lot

1284
00:59:22,280 --> 00:59:22,640
Speaker 2: of things.

1285
00:59:22,880 --> 00:59:25,440
Speaker 1: And I'm going to give you credit because you're the

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Speaker 1: person who first put that idea in my head a

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Speaker 1: couple of years ago, that you're not building a firm,

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Speaker 1: You're building an enterprise and that's a big difference. Yes,

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Speaker 1: thank you, Peter for being so generous with your time.

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Speaker 1: We have been speaking with Peter Maluke, CEO and president

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Speaker 1: of Creative Planning. If you enjoy this conversation, well check

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Speaker 1: out any of the previous five hundred or so we've

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00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:50,080
Speaker 1: done over the past ten years. You can find those

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Speaker 1: at iTunes, Spotify, YouTube, Bloomberg, wherever you find your favorite podcasts.

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Speaker 1: And check out At the Money, my new podcast, short

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00:59:59,680 --> 01:00:04,280
Speaker 1: ten minute conversations with experts about topics that affect you

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01:00:04,520 --> 01:00:07,960
Speaker 1: and your money, earning it, spending it, and most importantly

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Speaker 1: investing it At the Money in the Masters in Business

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Speaker 1: podcast feed. I would be remiss if I do not

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01:00:15,120 --> 01:00:17,720
Speaker 1: thank the Cracked team that helps put these conversations together

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01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:22,440
Speaker 1: each week. Sarah Livesey is my audio engineer. Attika Valbrun

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01:00:22,600 --> 01:00:26,360
Speaker 1: is my project manager. Anna Luke is my producer. The

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Speaker 1: head of Podcasts at Bloomberg is Sage Bauman. Sean Russo

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Speaker 1: is my researcher. I'm Barry Ridolts. You've been listening to

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Speaker 1: Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio.