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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on

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Speaker 1: iHeart Radio and welcome back. We're back with Nigel Watson

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Speaker 1: as we talked about his latest work, Captured by Aliens. Nigel,

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Speaker 1: what is it about the Benny and Barney hillcase that

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Speaker 1: convinces you that this might be real? Um? Well, they

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Speaker 1: didn't and didn't contradict themselves, and it was something that

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Speaker 1: couldn't have been staged because you know, it is being

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Speaker 1: followed twenty four hours or something, and I don't think

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Speaker 1: it could have been staged. The only thing is that

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Speaker 1: wherever it was a product of our imagination, you know,

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Speaker 1: something puts on. That night, they'd seen the USO following

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Speaker 1: them and when they stopped the card to have a

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Speaker 1: look a better look at it, Barney Hill grabbed a

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Speaker 1: pair of binoculars and went out of the car to

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Speaker 1: get a better view of the UFO and he said

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Speaker 1: he saw a craft with a row of windows in

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Speaker 1: it and he could see occupants inside the flame saucer.

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Speaker 1: One of them looked like the leader and they looked

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Speaker 1: really sinister, you know, like compared him to some and

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Speaker 1: that see soldier or something like a stormtrooper or something. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and that really frightened him, and I think he was

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Speaker 1: frightened that they would land and capture them. So I

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Speaker 1: think it's at that moment he kind of ran back

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Speaker 1: to the car and drove off really fast, and that's

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Speaker 1: when they kind of got lost and the net netz

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Speaker 1: thing and over kind of home. But like the workout,

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Speaker 1: that was like about two hours this in time, and

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Speaker 1: that's when you know, Betty's night mayors kind of fill

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Speaker 1: in some of those gaps and then it's not really

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Speaker 1: until under hypnotic regression they really get to the bottom

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Speaker 1: of what might have happened. It's interesting they're one of

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Speaker 1: the craft itself that they're separated, and that since the

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Speaker 1: way always happened with abductees, if there are two, they

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Speaker 1: always seem to get separated. So it's how to collaborate

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Speaker 1: their stories really, other than that they entered and left

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Speaker 1: and machine like with with Betty they inserted a needle

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Speaker 1: into a navel and with Bernie they tried taking his

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Speaker 1: first teeth out. So they were fascinated by his teeth,

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Speaker 1: weren't they. Yeah, they're kind of they were like cures

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Speaker 1: and deficient people. And the more of them say and

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Speaker 1: also we didn't look like the typical Grays of euthology nowadays,

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Speaker 1: and they with them. Betty, she actually had a discussion

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Speaker 1: with them, and she saw the famous star chart on

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Speaker 1: the wall, and she even tried taking a book as

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Speaker 1: a souvenir, but it's taken off her. And so that's

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Speaker 1: another problem with people who who are abducted. They're never

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Speaker 1: allowed to take anything away from the ship. And that's

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Speaker 1: a much like you know, ancient fairies stories with people

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Speaker 1: enter fairyland and then they never are able to take

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Speaker 1: anything out of that land to prove the been there.

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Speaker 1: So I think it's well, it was literally the stuff

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Speaker 1: of nightmares. And also um Benjamin Simon felt that a

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Speaker 1: lot of her problems were caused by racial tension that

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Speaker 1: mister and missus average they were an inter racial couple,

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Speaker 1: which was quite unusual for the early sixties. And Peter

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Speaker 1: Rogerson equates the UFO to almost being like a symbol

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Speaker 1: of a pirate ship and the fear of being taken

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Speaker 1: away an abducting sort of repercussions of and echoes of,

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Speaker 1: you know, slavery in the past. You know that you

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Speaker 1: never Mayflower Pilgrims represented, you know, an exploring culture into

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Speaker 1: into the United States, and in a way, the spaceship

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Speaker 1: represents another extraw in civilization that might you know, take

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Speaker 1: over their own country and that sort of echoes of um,

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Speaker 1: you know, invasion as well, and a lot of times too, Nigel,

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Speaker 1: when something like this happens, Yeah, you've got to ask

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Speaker 1: the question who benefits? And the Hills didn't benefit from

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Speaker 1: going public with this at all. This was not in

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Speaker 1: their best interest to do this, was it. No, so

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Speaker 1: well thought of them, their community. I think that she

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Speaker 1: was a social worker and Bernie had been involved with

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Speaker 1: the community Action program. Yeah, they were well liked. People

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Speaker 1: liked them, Yeah, well liked they were. They worked for

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Speaker 1: different associations, were quite They weren't like shut off from

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Speaker 1: society and self fantasy prone in that sense. And I

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Speaker 1: suppose in a way because of Barney wanted to keep

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Speaker 1: it quiet. But I think Betty was far more outgoing

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Speaker 1: person and in a way and because of the interest

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Speaker 1: in their case, I think she was willing and able

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Speaker 1: to you know, talk about it in public and go

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Speaker 1: on TV and present it in a credible way. And

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Speaker 1: you know, even though Barney was reluctant about all this,

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Speaker 1: he did kind of support it. He did support her

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Speaker 1: claim through his own I notot it regretting, So in

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Speaker 1: a way, it's just own human reactions to whatever happened

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Speaker 1: to them. And I think as well, at that time,

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Speaker 1: the Soviet Union had just started nuclear testing and that

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Speaker 1: was something high in people's minds. But it's interesting that

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Speaker 1: when Betty got home the early hours of the morning,

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Speaker 1: she was very fearful about radio activity. And I think

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Speaker 1: they cleaned the car out and did different things because

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Speaker 1: they're so worried. And I think that's one reason why

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Speaker 1: she reported the UFO site into the nearby Air Force space,

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Speaker 1: because she was worried about you know, that we'd been

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Speaker 1: contaminated by radiation. Well in those days too, they didn't

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Speaker 1: know who to report UF four cases too, so going

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Speaker 1: to the Air Force was probably the right thing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and uh so, you know, it was a hard thing

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Speaker 1: to know about. And I think she also ran her

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Speaker 1: sister because her sister had seen seen her, you phoe

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Speaker 1: of a pass, so she'd got some advice of her.

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Speaker 1: I think she ended up going to a library the

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Speaker 1: same way I did, and she'd got to be addresser

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Speaker 1: Donald Kehoe, and that's how a case got to be

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Speaker 1: investigated by nightcap Um. But I think she's a sort

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Speaker 1: of person who was inquisitive, So I think she kind

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Speaker 1: of read a lot of Uphoe books and and contacted

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Speaker 1: different people to find out more. So, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: I think it's interesting where you know, she got to

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Speaker 1: the right people really so up and won A. Webb

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Speaker 1: wrote quite an extensive report on her case, which wasn't

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Speaker 1: really I don't think it was really out until about

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixty five, and that also had a lot of

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Speaker 1: references to South American cases, particularly Anthony villas BoA's case

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Speaker 1: that he he gives about five or six pages too,

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Speaker 1: because he thinks it seems very similar to the Hill

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Speaker 1: case with Villa spoas he he Um had aliens who

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Speaker 1: pointed to the sky and rented themselves, implying them they

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Speaker 1: weren't from this planet. So in a way that was

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Speaker 1: a bit like the equivalent of Betty Hills star map,

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Speaker 1: that they reference themselves to something extraterrestrial, you know, rather

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Speaker 1: than something more mundane. And also the fact that he

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Speaker 1: like the dog One tribe, Haddam, the Dogone tribe would

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Speaker 1: point to the Serious star system for example. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: in a way these were very similar cases that were

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Speaker 1: spread by continents separate continents, but you know, it's possible

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Speaker 1: the Hills. You might have heard a bit about that

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Speaker 1: case through Road to Where, but I think it the

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Speaker 1: really suppose case was kept in the background for quite

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Speaker 1: a while, and then that got publicity in nineteen sixty five,

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Speaker 1: really in the English speaking world, about the same time

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Speaker 1: as the Bettine Brownie Hill Came case became well known

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Speaker 1: as well. Those in a way that kind of broke

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Speaker 1: down the barrier to accepting abductions and by more serious authology.

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Speaker 1: What other cases did you look at, Nigel that captured

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Speaker 1: you interest? Um, well, I looked at there's some Batty

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Speaker 1: Anderson case and the cases are evolved after the Hill case,

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Speaker 1: and also there's a Travis Wilton case as well, you

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Speaker 1: know famously. Yeah, Fire in the Sky. Yeah, it's a

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Speaker 1: very good film because I think it solves balances some

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Speaker 1: skeptical viewpoints as well as his you know, kind of

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Speaker 1: horrifying encounter. And I think that's probably one of the

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Speaker 1: better alien abduction moves ever made. And was that case not?

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Speaker 1: He was missing for about a week rather than two

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Speaker 1: two hours, and you know, we still don't really know

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Speaker 1: what went on and not such a long period of

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Speaker 1: time on bother spacecraft. But his case seems a bit

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Speaker 1: more or horrifying than the what the Hills went through.

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Speaker 1: And of course cases that came up in the eighties

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Speaker 1: and nineties, I think we're more weren't so much focused

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Speaker 1: on particular people, but more the investigators like Bud Hopkins

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Speaker 1: and John Mack and David Jacobs, we kind of plotted

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Speaker 1: more of the characteristics of you know, maybe a hundred

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Speaker 1: or so abduction cases rather than focus on particular instances,

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Speaker 1: so that they kind of established such things as missing

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Speaker 1: time and implants and being floated up to a spaceship

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Speaker 1: and the kind of things that are accepted in new

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Speaker 1: fology now. And it's quite interesting other cases after the Hill,

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Speaker 1: really those people being floated up to flying sources like

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Speaker 1: Travis Wolton, how Travis was or or even floated through

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Speaker 1: windows or or walls to go to USOS with Anti

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Speaker 1: tny O Villa Spoas and the Hills, they were both

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Speaker 1: sort of dragged one ceremoniously into the craft, so they

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Speaker 1: were kind of like low, low tech versions of the

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Speaker 1: more modern UFOs. What fascinates you about all these cases

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Speaker 1: because there's a breeding program under way with this too,

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Speaker 1: isn't there. Yeah, there was a sort particularly with villaspoas

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Speaker 1: m it was kind of forced twelve m intercourse with

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Speaker 1: a space woman. I was quite surprised to learn though

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Speaker 1: that some Brazilion in their sigators went back to his

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Speaker 1: hometown and one of the locals of New Antonio said

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Speaker 1: that the space woman was very ugly, whereas are the

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Speaker 1: reports of it that I've seen before is that she

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Speaker 1: was a kind of beautiful set sductive alien woman. So

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Speaker 1: a bit of a surprise that apparently she was ugly,

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Speaker 1: And you know, that just shows how things get repeated

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Speaker 1: in the literature until you kind of go back to

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Speaker 1: the source and find out what else has gone on.

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Speaker 1: So in a way, that kind of undermines the idea

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Speaker 1: that it was some sort of male fantasy, because you know,

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Speaker 1: whould admit to that with an ugly person in a way,

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Speaker 1: So that a different perspective on that case. But it

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Speaker 1: also seems like they were used in for a breeding

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Speaker 1: program and with the betting barning. Okay, so we're kind

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Speaker 1: of interested in their reproductive organs, and you know, it

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Speaker 1: seems like the alien seemed to ever a deep interest

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Speaker 1: in how we breed and well, do you think that

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Speaker 1: they want knowledge of our breeding program for themselves or

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Speaker 1: to replace us on this planet. Well, it seems to

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Speaker 1: be a mixture of them wanting to breeds with us

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Speaker 1: to create hybrids as those This comes from like the

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Speaker 1: concept of way back when people believe there's life on Mars,

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Speaker 1: they always thought the Martians would come and invade the

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Speaker 1: Earth because there they had a lack of water and

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Speaker 1: resources and they would die out. So we're needed to

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Speaker 1: come and invade here and perhaps even breed with us

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Speaker 1: to make stronger stock. And in a way, that seems

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Speaker 1: to be what people think about the alien breeding program,

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Speaker 1: that we want to come here to either revitalize buying

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Speaker 1: alien stock of a for one, to create an entirely

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Speaker 1: new hybrids to take over the planet. But it's really

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Speaker 1: hard to say, really because you know, some of it,

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Speaker 1: I think, particularly some of John Matt's cases are probably

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Speaker 1: more fantasy unreal. But it has led to people, you know,

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Speaker 1: speculating about what any alien agenda might be. But I said,

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Speaker 1: another thing with the skeptical point of view is the

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Speaker 1: fact that there the techniques seems to be quite crude. Really,

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Speaker 1: Like people said oh, why don't let just in a

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Speaker 1: break into a medical laboratory and still you know, samples

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Speaker 1: and things like you know why why um why plague

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Speaker 1: and rape people you know in such yourselves. It's it's

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Speaker 1: it's bizarre. Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every

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Speaker 1: weeknight at one am Eastern, and go to Coast to

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Speaker 1: Coast am dot com for more