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Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet, as a production

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Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd and this

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Speaker 1: is There Are No Girls on the Internet. This is

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Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet, where we explore

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Speaker 1: the intersection of identity, technology and social media. And this

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Speaker 1: is another installment of our weekly news roundup where we

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Speaker 1: talked through stories that you might have missed online this week.

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Speaker 1: So you don't have to. Can I tell you Mike

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Speaker 1: about how I am going to fight with chettoopt?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? What are you guys fighting about?

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Speaker 1: Okay, So you know, one of my biggest struggles with

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Speaker 1: the podcast is doing the metadata, and so I was

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Speaker 1: trying to do the metadata for Tuesday's podcast episode, which,

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Speaker 1: if folks have not heard it, it's all about Jeffrey

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Speaker 1: Epstein's specifically the revelation that the former president of Harvard,

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Speaker 1: Larry Summers, had this creepy email relationship with Jeffrey Epstein

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Speaker 1: where he would called Jeffrey Epstein his wingman. Jeffrey Epstein

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Speaker 1: was giving him all kinds of advice about how he

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Speaker 1: could best hook up with his mentee. This was, of course,

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Speaker 1: well after Epstein had been convicted for sex crimes against children.

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Speaker 1: So this is a little bit kind of behind the

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Speaker 1: scenes podcast inside Baseball, But it is super important for

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Speaker 1: podcast episode titles to be SEO friendly so that they

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Speaker 1: can show up in web searches. They also have to

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Speaker 1: be a certain length, like it's a whole kind of science.

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Speaker 1: Your meant to pull specific keywords for SEO and include

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Speaker 1: them in the metadata when you publish your episode long

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Speaker 1: story short. It is a pain in the butt. I

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Speaker 1: hate doing it every single time, and I was really

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Speaker 1: having a hard time doing it for this episode. So

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Speaker 1: I thought, wait a minute, this is exactly the kind

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Speaker 1: of low level administrative task that chat shebt is supposed

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Speaker 1: to be good for, so don't come for me. But

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Speaker 1: I thought, you know, with lms are good for one thing,

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Speaker 1: it should be good at identifying words that are gonna

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Speaker 1: work well with other algorithms. So I typed in my title,

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Speaker 1: I typed in my description, I hit enter, and I

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Speaker 1: asked chatgept to generate some SEO for this metadata.

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Speaker 2: Okay, that makes sense that you know. It does seem

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Speaker 2: like the sort of thing that chat gpt should be

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Speaker 2: pretty good at.

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Speaker 1: I would have thought the same thing. However, chatgebt hits

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Speaker 1: me with the I'm sorry, David, I'm afraid I can't

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Speaker 1: do that.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, you were locked out of the space module.

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Speaker 1: Not exactly, I mean editorially, yes, Ok, not exactly. Here's

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Speaker 1: what Chattebet said. So I said, can you help me

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Speaker 1: with SEO medidator for this podcast description? Chatchubt says, I

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Speaker 1: can help pull the SEO keywords for you for an

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Speaker 1: engaging title and description bold, but I need to avoid

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Speaker 1: making or implying any unverified allegations. I can frame it

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Speaker 1: around publicly reported connections, open source facts, and explore discussion,

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Speaker 1: which will keep it compelling and responsible. Here are some

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Speaker 1: options that you can use safely. So I'm thinking, oh, Chatgeept,

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Speaker 1: don't know who she's talking to, because obviously I am

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Speaker 1: not going to say things that are unverified allegations. I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to say anything that is not based in fact, right,

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Speaker 1: So I'm like, let's just let me just make sure

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Speaker 1: that we're on the same page here. So I say,

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Speaker 1: what do you mean on verified allegations? Larry Summers has

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Speaker 1: already admitted to having this connection to Epstein. We have

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Speaker 1: emails between the two of them that are not in dispute.

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Speaker 1: Summers has recently taken a lead from Harvard because of

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Speaker 1: these emails? Are you aware of all this? Certainly chatsheept

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Speaker 1: sometimes it doesn't have its information up to date. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: let me make sure that chat sheheep beeds, let me

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Speaker 1: make sure that chatghebet knows what the deal is.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So you're just like straight up arguing with it now,

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Speaker 2: which I can understand because you asked them to do

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Speaker 2: a thing and it was like not only no, but

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Speaker 2: like kind of scoldy and condescend, which is the worst

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Speaker 2: way for a machine to act towards a humant No.

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Speaker 1: Mike, I was insulted. I was offended. So Chadjibt says,

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Speaker 1: you're right, and honestly, thank you for pressing me on that. Yes,

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Speaker 1: recent coverage does make clear that Larry Summers did not

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Speaker 1: deny a connection to Jeffrey Epstein, and there are released

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Speaker 1: emails between them. Here's a quick update on the facts

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Speaker 1: as of now, which may help explain why I initially hedged.

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Speaker 1: So it gives me just a summary of the information

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Speaker 1: that frankly I already know. We already know about Epstein

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Speaker 1: and Summers. Then it says, given all this, you're right,

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Speaker 1: it is reasonable and accurate to say that there is

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Speaker 1: substantiated evidence of a connection between Summers and Epstein. My

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Speaker 1: earlier caution about unverified allegations was more about avoiding framing

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Speaker 1: the relationship in a defamatory or criminal looking way, since

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Speaker 1: as far as the current public record shows, there's folded

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Speaker 1: no evidence that committed a crime. So mind you, we've

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Speaker 1: reported on this before. This is technology that has no

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Speaker 1: problem to faming all kinds of people. When you when

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Speaker 1: I have asked Chatgypt who I have interviewed on the podcast,

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Speaker 1: it is straight up told me, oh bridget Todd has

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Speaker 1: interviewed Monica Lewinsky. I wish that had happened, but that

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Speaker 1: has never happened. So Chat shabt is totally fine to

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Speaker 1: spin out all kinds of hallucinations and inaccurate information about

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Speaker 1: anybody myself included. However, we're talking about Larry Summers, former

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Speaker 1: Open AI board member. Might I add, it is like, no, no,

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Speaker 1: no, no no, I need to be extra special careful that

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Speaker 1: we are not saying anything tofammatory. So I say, okay, chathypt,

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Speaker 1: I'll play your little game, sure, but let's not pussy

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Speaker 1: foot around what is not in dispute as you can

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Speaker 1: probably tell them. I'm a little hutd at this point.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, give it to it, bridd. We're not here to

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Speaker 2: pussyfoot around.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's my thing, is like, I'm not asking for

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Speaker 1: it to lie. I have my facts straight. I'm a

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Speaker 1: human who can like read and get contacts and all

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Speaker 1: of that. Don't tell me what I already know, Chatgebet,

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Speaker 1: I crankly, I mean I was offended. So Chatchebet said, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: we can be direct as long as we're sure to

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Speaker 1: stick to bolded what is publicly documented and undisputed. So

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Speaker 1: that I say, are you being such a bit about

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Speaker 1: this because Larry Sommers was on the open ay board

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Speaker 1: or what? Chatchebet says? No, And let me be very

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Speaker 1: clear bolded Larry Summers has never been on the open

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Speaker 1: Ay board, and I'm not in quotes protecting him or

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Speaker 1: anyone else. The only reason I've been careful is because

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Speaker 1: I'm required to stick to what's publicly verified and avoid

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Speaker 1: stating or applying a criminal wrongdoing. Un lets, it's established fact.

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Speaker 1: That's it. You've already made clear that you're only asking

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Speaker 1: for help with documented elements, the emails, the funding link

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Speaker 1: and it's stepping back from Harvard. Those are all fair

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Speaker 1: game to reference directly. I'm not here to sanitize things.

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Speaker 1: I am here to avoid putting words in your mouth

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Speaker 1: or mine that could cross into saying something that is

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Speaker 1: not on the public record. So if you want a

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Speaker 1: sharp tone, a tougher tone, or something more confrontational, as

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Speaker 1: long as it stays within the factual boundaries, I can

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Speaker 1: absolutely do that for you.

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Speaker 2: Wow. So that is like a bold statement by changpt

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Speaker 2: that Larry Summers has never been on the open ahadboard.

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Speaker 2: And I guess I didn't mean a pun, but like

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Speaker 2: literally it was bolded, like it printed that in bold.

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Speaker 2: I don't know it could use bold.

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Speaker 1: It's like yelling at me.

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Speaker 2: This whole confrontation between you two. Yeah, this is like

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Speaker 2: kind of a hostile workplace, Like, am I gonna have

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Speaker 2: to step in here and like call hr and smooth

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Speaker 2: things over between you two?

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Speaker 1: You might have to, So I say, oh, okay, So

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Speaker 1: you're saying Larry Summers did not recently resign from the

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Speaker 1: Open AI board after his emails with Epstein came to light.

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Speaker 1: I got this robot against the ropes, right, it says,

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Speaker 1: good question. Actually, no, I was wrong earlier to saying

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Speaker 1: no when you asked if Larry Summers had ever been

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Speaker 1: on the board of Open AI. He did sit on

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Speaker 1: Open aiyes, board but recently in bold Reside, So yes,

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Speaker 1: it seems Summers was on the Open AYE board, and yes,

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Speaker 1: he stepped down from the board following the release of

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Speaker 1: the emails with Jeffrey Epstein. What am I supposed to

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Speaker 1: do with this? Like I you and I had a

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Speaker 1: whole conversation where I'm like, is this anything Do I

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Speaker 1: need to like go to go to the media with this?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's I mean, it does seem like it really

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Speaker 2: did not want to talk about this acknowledge it, which

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Speaker 2: is sort of weird, Like I would expect this kind

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Speaker 2: of behavior from GROCK, but uh, you know, maybe chat

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Speaker 2: GPT is trying to play catch up in terms of

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Speaker 2: shaping reality. I don't know. It's it's pretty weird. It's

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Speaker 2: pretty weird because these are not like whether or not

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Speaker 2: Larry Summers was on the board of Open AI is

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Speaker 2: not some sort of deep niche fact or ambiguous in

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Speaker 2: some way like he was.

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Speaker 1: No, and he's been on the board since I think

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty three, So it's not it's not like like

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Speaker 1: he has been on the board for a pretty long time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like bold face fun Larry Summers has never been

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Speaker 2: on the open ay board. It's like yelling at you

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Speaker 2: about falsest. Yeah, it's suspicious.

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Speaker 1: Very sus counter days chat sweet pte.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And the weird thing is is that I think I

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Speaker 1: mentioned this in the episode that we did about chat

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Speaker 1: scheeput releasing their new model. I don't really I'm I'm

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Speaker 1: like a little bit of a slow adopter when it

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Speaker 1: comes to chat Schebut it's not something I use a ton.

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Speaker 1: I didn't really have a lot of personal experience with,

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Speaker 1: and I feel like most of the people I know

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Speaker 1: have been using it a lot more So I feel

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Speaker 1: like I'm a little bit catching up and this being

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Speaker 1: need trying to see it that can handle this, like frankly,

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Speaker 1: pretty low level administrative task, the kind of thing that

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Speaker 1: you know you'll do it usually for the for the metadata.

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Speaker 1: I'll do it sometimes, but I get a little lazy.

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Speaker 1: It's it's it is not work that involves a lot

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Speaker 1: of abstract thought or creativity, which I think like, oh,

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Speaker 1: that will be exactly the kind of work that you

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Speaker 1: can outsource to AI, not so if it includes publicly

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Speaker 1: documented facts about somebody who was once on the open

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Speaker 1: ai behoard.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it makes you. It does give one pause for

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Speaker 2: like using these tools. You know, it makes me think

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Speaker 2: of two separate things, if you don't mind a little

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Speaker 2: digression here, Uh, digress, digress. You know, I read recently

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Speaker 2: that open ai is thinking about how to put ads

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Speaker 2: into chat GPT, and you know, that just like feels weird.

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Speaker 2: So here they are. It seems like chat GPT is

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Speaker 2: already shaping its responses to protect its corporate parent, which

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Speaker 2: is like pretty weird for a tool that people try

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Speaker 2: to use for research, and then to contemplate what that

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Speaker 2: might look like when they have paid as advertisers, Like

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Speaker 2: what kind of information is going to show up in

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Speaker 2: its responses because advertisers paid for it to be there?

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Speaker 2: And what kind of information is not going to show

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Speaker 2: up because advertisers are paying it. I really have a

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Speaker 2: hard time imagining how they are going to incorporate ads

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Speaker 2: into this tool in a way that doesn't like further

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Speaker 2: corrupt its usefulness. But it does seem like that's where

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Speaker 2: they are headed, because they are spending way more money

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Speaker 2: than they are taking in from it. And you know

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Speaker 2: you can only do that for so long before something's

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Speaker 2: got to give. Yeah, that's one thing.

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Speaker 1: And I think for me, I mean, I had obviously

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Speaker 1: published this episode. I had done a lot of research

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Speaker 1: and a lot of reading on it, so I knew

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Speaker 1: what I was saying was correct and double checked you

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Speaker 1: took a look at it, Like all the steps that

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Speaker 1: I go through to make sure what I'm saying is correct,

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Speaker 1: I had done. So I felt very confident in what

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Speaker 1: I had written. What if I hadn't, you know, Like,

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Speaker 1: it just goes to show how relying on tools like this,

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Speaker 1: if you don't know what you don't know, and so

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Speaker 1: if you don't know what it's spitting back at you

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Speaker 1: is incorrect information. You might not know that, like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I need to double check this, right, Like I'm lucky

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Speaker 1: that me trying to use this. I was using it

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Speaker 1: for a subject that I happen to like know quite

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Speaker 1: a bit about and feel very confident about what happens

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Speaker 1: when that's not the case.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely. It does really emphasize that, I think to use

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Speaker 2: these tools in any kind of professional capacity, you really

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Speaker 2: have to know what you're talking about, because you really

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Speaker 2: can't trust it, right, Like it's it'll be correct ninety

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Speaker 2: percent of the time, but if you don't know what

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Speaker 2: ten percent of the time it's incorrect, you're really taking

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Speaker 2: a big gamble with it. And So the second thing

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Speaker 2: that I was just thinking about was I've read today

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Speaker 2: how Microsoft has I don't know if you've read this,

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Speaker 2: they really downwardly revised their sales expectations for their AI

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Speaker 2: products because people are just like not buying them. And

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Speaker 2: you know, at the beginning of this year, they had

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Speaker 2: these huge expectations of all these enterprise sales of Copilot,

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Speaker 2: Microsoft's AI tool that they were going to be selling.

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Speaker 2: People are just not buying it. And my understanding is

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Speaker 2: that a big part of that is because people are

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Speaker 2: just skeptical of it, and it's marketed as it can

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Speaker 2: do all of these great things, and it like almost can,

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Speaker 2: but that like last ten percent where it gets things

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Speaker 2: wrong or just doesn't perform the way it's expected to,

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Speaker 2: is like a major barrier to people adopting these tools.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, shit, people don't like it because it sucks

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Speaker 1: and also don't work.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and also it's like condescending to you and talking

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Speaker 2: to you in like yeah, pretty shitty toad, really Yeah.

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Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. I mean, it's not enough that

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Speaker 1: you are polluting black and the brown communities to give

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Speaker 1: out information that's not even correct. You gotta be shitty

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Speaker 1: while you do that, to do it with an attitude.

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Speaker 1: Also on top of that, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I just gotta do it with an attitude. If I

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Speaker 2: want attitude, I don't need to turn to chat GIPT.

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Speaker 2: I cant to talk to you.

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Speaker 1: I know, I was saying. Literally, I was so close

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Speaker 1: to being like, who the fuck are you getting loud

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Speaker 1: with chesh, Like genuinely like we were in a fight.

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Speaker 1: We were in a fight. Okay, do you know who

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Speaker 1: else is beating right now? And I didn't want to

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Speaker 1: talk about this, And it's what you'll you'll get what

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Speaker 1: I mean in a minute, Like why I'm like trepidacious

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Speaker 1: about talking about this. But Sabrina Carpenter and the White

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Speaker 1: House have you seen this?

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Speaker 2: No, I don't know anything about this.

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Speaker 1: It is so stupid. So basically this is a thing

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Speaker 1: that is like a pattern with the White House. The

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Speaker 1: White House has been admonished for using Sabrina Carpenter's music

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Speaker 1: without her consent to score their god awful torture porn

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Speaker 1: deportation social media content. So the White House put out

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Speaker 1: this video, as they do, of agents arresting people, an

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Speaker 1: apparent part of this Trump immigration crackdown, and this time

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Speaker 1: they overlaid it with Sabrina Carpenter's song Juno. Bit of

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Speaker 1: a weird song choice because that song is about sex positions.

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Speaker 1: But okay, So the White House post this video with

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Speaker 1: the caption have you tried this one? In reference to

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Speaker 1: the lyrics of the song. Sabrina Carpenter was my having it,

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Speaker 1: She said, this video is evil and disgusting. Do not

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Speaker 1: ever involve me or my music to benefit your inhumane agenda.

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Speaker 1: The White House replies, here's a short and sweet message

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Speaker 1: for Sabrina Carpenter. We won't apologize for deporting dangerous criminal, illegal, murderers, rapists,

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Speaker 1: and pedophiles from our country. Anyone who would defend these

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Speaker 1: sick monsters must be stupid or is it slow? This

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Speaker 1: is from White House spokesperson Amigil Jackson, diferencing Sabrina Carpenter's

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Speaker 1: shorten Sweet album and the song Manchild. So I wanted

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Speaker 1: to talk about this because it keeps happening. In twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty four, Beyonce's threatened a season desist order to the

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Speaker 1: Trump campaign for using her song Freedom in a video.

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Speaker 1: That song later became Kamala Harris's campaign song. The band

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Speaker 1: Abba Foo, Fighters, Kenny Loggins, they have all had to

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Speaker 1: tell Trump to stop using their music at rallies and

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Speaker 1: in their videos over the years. So the reason I

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Speaker 1: wanted to talk about this is because to me, it

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Speaker 1: is very much intentional, and it's something that I see

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Speaker 1: from the White House over and over and over again,

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Speaker 1: and I'm I'm I'm annoyed that I'm even talking about

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Speaker 1: it because I think that's what they want. I think

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Speaker 1: that they are intentionally baiting celebrities to generate headlines. I've

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Speaker 1: said this a few times on the show. Nobody is

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Speaker 1: more celebrity obsessed. Nobody is more of a starfucker like fan,

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Speaker 1: whether it's being a fan or a fan and the

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Speaker 1: other direction an antifan. Nobody is more wrapped up in

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Speaker 1: that than right wing extremists. When you look at the

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Speaker 1: kind of conversations that people like Ben Shapiro are having,

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Speaker 1: it is all like feuds with celebrities. Essentially, it is

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Speaker 1: the same kind of anti fandom that you find on

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Speaker 1: snark pages on Reddit, right, like, but they're able to

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Speaker 1: do it in a way that dresses it up as

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Speaker 1: actual political discourse. They just want to talk about celebrities,

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Speaker 1: just like I do, Just like I do when I'm

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Speaker 1: reading my US Weekly, just like I did when I'm

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Speaker 1: a fourteen. They just want to talk about celebrities, And

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Speaker 1: so I think that the White House does this with

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Speaker 1: intention because it generates headlines and they just love talking

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Speaker 1: about celebrities and what they're up to. I have seen

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Speaker 1: no less than three different Fox News talking heads talking

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Speaker 1: about Sabrina Carpenter, who didn't do anything other than have

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Speaker 1: her music used without her consent. Right. They just want

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Speaker 1: to find a way to get celebrities in the conversation,

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Speaker 1: and I think those conversations take away from what the

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Speaker 1: administration is actually doing. You don't want people to be

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Speaker 1: talking about all of the horror in your policies, all

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Speaker 1: of the horror that you're enacting in our streets in

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Speaker 1: our communities. Just do something involving a celebrity and then

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Speaker 1: let the headlines write themselves.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, one hundred percent agree that this is an intentional

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Speaker 2: tactic of theirs, like very specifically to steal musicians music

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Speaker 2: and use it without their consent for in support of

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Speaker 2: their awful agenda with their torture porn AI generated videos.

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Speaker 2: They know exactly what they're doing, and they have no

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Speaker 2: fear of the consequences because they generally aren't any and

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Speaker 2: like you just describe, they get a lot of benefits

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Speaker 2: from it, and they certainly have no respect for artists

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Speaker 2: or copyright or really anyone or anything except themselves. One

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Speaker 2: thing that did give me a little bit of comfort

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Speaker 2: today that I was reading just like a tiny amount

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Speaker 2: in these dark times. So the Trump administration's strategy of

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Speaker 2: flooding the zone with all kinds of nonsense to distract

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Speaker 2: from their horribleness. I am set, you know, sad to

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Speaker 2: agree that it is a effective strategy at distracting. But

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Speaker 2: some Republicans in Congress are starting to complain that it

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Speaker 2: is like really hurting them as well, Like they are

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Speaker 2: getting concerned that they can't get out any message. Particularly

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Speaker 2: they want to talk about the big, beautiful bill that

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Speaker 2: they passed last year that had a bunch of laws

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Speaker 2: that passed a bunch of tax cuts for the super rich.

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Speaker 2: I don't know why they want to talk about it,

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Speaker 2: but they seem to feel that that's like a winning

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Speaker 2: message for them to talk about, but yet they can't.

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Speaker 2: And so it's there's like a little bit of schadenfreude

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Speaker 2: happening now where there's this Republican revolts or like mini revolts,

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Speaker 2: because they're all pretty spineless and like enthrall to Trump,

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Speaker 2: but like there's this tiny little revolt where they are

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Speaker 2: coming to realize that this strategy of constantly flooding the

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Speaker 2: zone with nonsense might not be an effective strategy for

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Speaker 2: convincing people that you're doing good things to help them.

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Speaker 4: Let's take a quick break at our back.

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Speaker 1: Well. I wanted to talk about this new campaign from

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Speaker 1: Paid Leave for All. They have launched what I think

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Speaker 1: is a very cool national coordinated action called out of

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Speaker 1: Office that is highlighting the shocking reality that we live

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Speaker 1: with here in the United States, but we have no

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Speaker 1: federal paid leave policy in this country. It is true

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Speaker 1: that this is something that usually falls on the shoulders

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Speaker 1: of women to deal with, but it's a problem for everybody,

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Speaker 1: regardless of your gender, that we don't have paid leave.

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Speaker 1: And so rather than publishing an off ed or like

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Speaker 1: protesting in the streets, employees across industries are instead refreshing

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Speaker 1: their out of office auto replies on their emails that

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Speaker 1: reveal the real reason why they're out of office. So

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Speaker 1: rather than being like, Oh, I'm out of office for

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Speaker 1: my long weekend, instead you would say I am out

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Speaker 1: of office dealing with my sick kid, I am out

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Speaker 1: of office dealing with my parent who is in hospice

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Speaker 1: care that I care for, or any other instance of

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Speaker 1: the daily chaos that women usually hide behind courteous out

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Speaker 1: of office replies in their emails. As Marie Claire reports,

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Speaker 1: the idea is simple. Set your real out of office

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Speaker 1: auto reply on your email, screenshot it, and share it

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Speaker 1: throughout the day. Paid Leave for All will be pulling

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Speaker 1: those posts into a sprawling digital wall of care, appearing everywhere,

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Speaker 1: from Instagram feeds to the airport screens in DC and

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Speaker 1: New York to billboards in Times Square. Every message gathered

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Speaker 1: will ultimately be delivered to Congress. Now. Shout out to

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Speaker 1: my girl, Don Hucklebridge, the founding director Paidly for All,

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Speaker 1: who says that the campaign grew out of frustration that

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Speaker 1: has been building. I should say I know Don Irl,

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Speaker 1: I've know her for years. She's fantastic. She did not

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Speaker 1: ask me to talk about this campaign, and not like

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Speaker 1: being paid to hype it up. I just think it's

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Speaker 1: really interesting and I think it's a really interesting use

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Speaker 1: of this psych technology that we sort of take for granted.

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Speaker 1: Email to make a point, Don told Marie Claire, it's

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Speaker 1: just the sense of exasperation that has been unsustainable for

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Speaker 1: so long, and it's getting worse. So many of us

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Speaker 1: are caring not just for children, but for multiple family

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Speaker 1: members and for ourselves without simple policies like paid leave.

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Speaker 1: It's burning us at both ends. So she says the

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Speaker 1: idea for this campaign struck her as the Thanksgiving holiday

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Speaker 1: was approaching and the latest job Staated was coming out,

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Speaker 1: and she said that both of these things felt like

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Speaker 1: an opportunity to do a little bit of storytelling. Storytelling

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Speaker 1: that captures the honest, messy, heartfelt accounts of what caregetting

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Speaker 1: looks like in real time. So here are a few

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Speaker 1: examples of the out of office replies that people have

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Speaker 1: put up as part of this campaign. Hi, I'm out

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Speaker 1: of office because my father is in hospice and I'm

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Speaker 1: holding his hand through his last moments. That is definitely

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Speaker 1: one that hits hard for me because I did do that.

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Speaker 1: I didn't take unpaid leave to do that, and it

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Speaker 1: fucking sucked.

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Speaker 2: I remember that. Yeah, uh uh, you really, I remember

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Speaker 2: what a difficult time that was for you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean, I know I talk about it

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Speaker 1: a lot on the show, but I don't think that

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Speaker 1: we talk enough about just the unseen burdens that often

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Speaker 1: fall on women in families, like especially women who are

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Speaker 1: my age, were what you might call the sandwich generation,

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Speaker 1: where you might have kids on one end and then

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Speaker 1: you might be caring for a parent on the other

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Speaker 1: while working while maintaining your household. It's a lot, and

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Speaker 1: it's one of those things where it's not really polite

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Speaker 1: to talk about, and yet everyone listening if they have

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Speaker 1: not gone through it already, which I hope they haven't,

432
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 1: but if they haven't, they will be figuring out the

433
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:14,360
Speaker 1: care for somebody in their life. I bet, like that's

434
00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:15,920
Speaker 1: just a reality that we will all go through, and

435
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:19,239
Speaker 1: yet it's completely unseen. We don't talk about what it

436
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:22,879
Speaker 1: actually takes to balance that and a career, especially if

437
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:25,560
Speaker 1: you are a self employed I don't know, creative professional

438
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:28,400
Speaker 1: or creative entrepreneur like I am. It's more or less

439
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 1: a completely unseen burden that we're all silently shouldering. And

440
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:34,919
Speaker 1: that's one of the reasons why this email out of

441
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:39,399
Speaker 1: office campaign struck me so much, because it's like making

442
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:43,640
Speaker 1: the unseen scene, it's making the invisible visible, and we should.

443
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:46,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think one of the really cool things about

444
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:50,919
Speaker 2: this campaign is that it both has policy aims to

445
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 2: try to put policies in place to give people paid

446
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 2: leave so that this is not such a personal burden

447
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 2: that people have to shoulder, you know, privately if they

448
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:07,359
Speaker 2: can at all or take time off from work. But

449
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 2: also I think the really cool thing about this campaign

450
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:13,480
Speaker 2: is that just by making it visible, I think does

451
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 2: help people. And I am I just recently went through

452
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 2: the all of the emails that people sent in for

453
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:24,080
Speaker 2: our mail bag episode, which thank you very much for

454
00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:27,119
Speaker 2: sending them in. We are going to do that in

455
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:30,400
Speaker 2: the next week or two here, which I'm very exciting for. Yeah,

456
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 2: coming soon. But quite a few of them mentioned, Bridget,

457
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:41,919
Speaker 2: how much you talking about your experience with you know,

458
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:44,960
Speaker 2: your grief and the loss of your parents helped them,

459
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:47,679
Speaker 2: like directly helped them by like making it visible and

460
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:51,680
Speaker 2: talking about it and sharing it. And I think there's

461
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:55,359
Speaker 2: a lot to that that talking about these things that

462
00:25:55,440 --> 00:26:01,239
Speaker 2: we hold privately. Can really just have a lot of

463
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:08,160
Speaker 2: benefits for other people to see that bravery and feel

464
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 2: less alone when they are going through it.

465
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 1: That really brings me a lot of comfort to hear

466
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:21,440
Speaker 1: it is. I mean, I don't need to tell you,

467
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 1: but it was the hardest thing I've ever gone through

468
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 1: in my life and continues to be. And I just

469
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:31,920
Speaker 1: you know, if you've not gone through it, you don't

470
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:33,879
Speaker 1: really get it, but when you've gone through it, you

471
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 1: really get it. I remember hearing from people that I

472
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:40,199
Speaker 1: barely knew who had lost to their parents young and like,

473
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 1: you know, like my parents died relatively young, and I

474
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 1: couldn't quite understand why they were reaching out. But then

475
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,239
Speaker 1: having gone through it, I completely get it. It's like

476
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 1: being in the world's shittiest club that no one talks about.

477
00:26:57,800 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 1: And so let's talk about it. Let's not have it

478
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 1: something that is unseen or you know, unspoken, especially because

479
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:08,399
Speaker 1: it's something that most of us, if not all of us,

480
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:11,640
Speaker 1: will experience someday. And I'm grateful for people like Don

481
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:16,639
Speaker 1: who are giving people the license to say, let's just

482
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 1: put it in your out of office reply, right, let's

483
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 1: just be real about it. Let's someone else's out of

484
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:24,720
Speaker 1: office reply is thanks for your message. I'm oh, oh,

485
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 1: because my mom is having surgery, But like so many Americans,

486
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 1: I don't have any paid leave, so I'll be back

487
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 1: on Monday. Right, Like, let's talk about it. These are

488
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,880
Speaker 1: not just personal issues, they're policy issues as well. It's

489
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:37,880
Speaker 1: one of those issues that are that are there's both

490
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 1: personal and political, So let's talk about it.

491
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, there's no way we're gonna make progress on

492
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,680
Speaker 2: these issues if we don't talk about them. And it's

493
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,160
Speaker 2: super brave of people to put that right in their

494
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:53,200
Speaker 2: out of office message. I think there's a lot of

495
00:27:54,680 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 2: I don't know, pressure, stigma around bringing those kind of

496
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:06,440
Speaker 2: personal issues into your work life or sharing it with colleagues,

497
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 2: especially anything negative like God forbid. And I think the

498
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 2: biggest burden of all of that falls on women, right

499
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:25,399
Speaker 2: like holding all of that in those professional standards that

500
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 2: put this pressure on us to keep all of this

501
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 2: personal stuff to ourselves. Most of the burden of that

502
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 2: falls on women, Like, let's be honest, and that's why

503
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 2: we need policies like paid leave to address it and

504
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 2: reduce that pressure to hold it all in and pretend

505
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 2: everything is fine.

506
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 1: Absolutely, we can take it to the streets, we can

507
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 1: take it to the hill, we can take it to

508
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:53,000
Speaker 1: our out of office email auto responses.

509
00:28:53,320 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, everywhere. Even email is not safe. Speaking of people

510
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:04,480
Speaker 2: not being safe, Oh.

511
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 1: My gosh, I know exactly where you're going. I gotta

512
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 1: throw a T Figger warning on this one because it

513
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 1: is horrible. This is a story from four or four media.

514
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 1: Shout out to them, but there is this misogynistic I

515
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 1: guess I would call him wanna be influencer named Brett

516
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 1: Michael Daddig. He's thirty one, and it's really one of

517
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 1: those where there's smoke, there's fire stories. Because after publishing

518
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:29,720
Speaker 1: these horrifying podcasts and other online content basically about how

519
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 1: much he hates women, the Department of Justice announced that

520
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 1: he was indicted on cyberstalking, interstate stalking, and interstate threat charges.

521
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 1: In the indictment, prosecutors say that he aired his hatred

522
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 1: of women on his Spotify podcast and other social media accounts.

523
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 1: Quote Don Digg repeatedly spoke on his podcast and social

524
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,280
Speaker 1: media about his anger toward women. He said women were

525
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 1: quote all the same and called them bitches, cunts, trash,

526
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 1: and other derogatory names. He posted about how he wanted

527
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 1: to fall in love and start a family, but how

528
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,360
Speaker 1: no woman wanted him. The indictment says he stated in

529
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:07,480
Speaker 1: one of his podcasts, it's the same from fucking eighteen

530
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 1: to fucking forty to fucking ninety, every bitch is the same.

531
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 1: You're all fucking cunts, every last one of you. Your cunts.

532
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 1: You have no self respect, you don't value anyone's time,

533
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 1: you don't do anything, and I'm fucking sick of these sluts.

534
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 1: I'm done. So you might be thinking, what a charming guy.

535
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 1: What does a charming guy like this do with his time?

536
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 2: My god, what a fucking monster? I mean, I try

537
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 2: to swear, but you know that paragraph just dumped at

538
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 2: a bunch of curse words, So like, what a fucking monster.

539
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 1: It's one of the reasons why on the show we

540
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 1: talk a lot about, you know, misogynistic and in cell

541
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 1: content creators and the manosphere, because I think that people

542
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 1: get this idea that it's just words. It's just somebody

543
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 1: playing a part or putting on a character to make money.

544
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 1: To be clear, they are doing it, oftentimes for engagement

545
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 1: or to make money, but that doesn't mean that it's

546
00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 1: just words happening in a vacuum, because oftentimes I would argue,

547
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:02,960
Speaker 1: more often than not, it is connected to some sort

548
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,840
Speaker 1: of real world harm or violence against women or minoritized people,

549
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 1: and thatm is clear as day here.

550
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I feel a lot of the time also

551
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 2: it's kind of hidden behind U, like cynical wink wink,

552
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 2: We're just joking, like, aren't they sluts? Haha kind of thing.

553
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:25,960
Speaker 2: This sounds like they are sluts and I want to

554
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 2: kill them all kind of thing.

555
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 1: Uh, pretty much, yes, Because his MO was going to

556
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 1: gyms and harassing women irol. According to four four, in

557
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 1: the summer of twenty twenty four, he was banned from

558
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:42,720
Speaker 1: multiple Pittsburgh gyms for harassing women. When he would be

559
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 1: banned from one establishment, he would move to another establishment,

560
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:48,240
Speaker 1: and then because he was banned from so many, he

561
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:50,720
Speaker 1: would basically go from state to state to state to state.

562
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 1: He eventually traveled to New York, Florida, Iowa, Ohio, and beyond,

563
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 1: going from Jim to Jim stalking and harassing women. According

564
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 1: to the indictment, those states are not even border states.

565
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 1: Like that is some travel.

566
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:09,960
Speaker 2: This is this is really a story, Like my god, Yeah,

567
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 2: this guy is firmly uprooting. It's not like he lived

568
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 2: in Virginia and went to Maryland. It's like he went

569
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 2: from New York to Florida, to Iowa to Ohio and beyond.

570
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 2: Like I don't even know where beyond is get a hobby, dude.

571
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, this was essentially his hobby. Authorities alleged that he

572
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 1: used aliases both online and in person. Posting online alias

573
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 1: is stay rotating, moves stay evolving. So it wasn't even

574
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 1: like he was really making a secret of this being

575
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 1: his thing.

576
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:43,040
Speaker 2: You know how alpha males are constantly moving from town

577
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:49,000
Speaker 2: to town to avoid accountability for harassing women. Yeah.

578
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:52,600
Speaker 1: And the other thing is, you know, talking about wanting

579
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 1: to settle down with a woman and then being like, oh,

580
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 1: the women are all awful. Maybe they don't want to

581
00:32:57,720 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 1: settle down with you because you're going from gym to

582
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 1: jim stalking and harassing them. That might be the root

583
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 1: of the problem, I think.

584
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 2: And also, none of these sluts want to have sex

585
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 2: with me, Like, what what are you talking about?

586
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 1: Can you believe they don't want me? This prize, This

587
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 1: gem of a dude who's been banned from Jim's from

588
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 1: coast to code.

589
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, they just can't recognize of the high value man

590
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 2: when they see one driving away to another state because

591
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 2: he's been chased out.

592
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 1: So he referenced quote strangling people with his bare hands,

593
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 1: called himself God's assassined. God's Assassin, warned that he would

594
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 1: be getting a firearms permit and asked, y'all want to

595
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 1: see a dead body in response to a woman telling

596
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 1: him that she felt physically threatened by him, and states

597
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 1: that women who fuck with him are going to fucking hell.

598
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 1: The indictment alleges, but I know we're thinking this guy

599
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:56,120
Speaker 1: sounds like you need some help. I agree, don't worry

600
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 1: because it sounds like he was getting some much needed

601
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:03,440
Speaker 1: therapy from Chatjeept. That is my old foe.

602
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:09,719
Speaker 2: Oh no, Chatbypt taking a lot of heat of this episode.

603
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:11,640
Speaker 1: I got it up against the ropes.

604
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:16,759
Speaker 2: You really do, man. So was it tell of this

605
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 2: guy that maybe he should stop threatening the murder women

606
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:22,719
Speaker 2: if he wants to attract a girlfriend?

607
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:26,320
Speaker 1: Hell no, so, according to this indictment. On his podcast,

608
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:28,880
Speaker 1: he talked about using chatgyb Bet on an ongoing basis

609
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:33,360
Speaker 1: as his quote therapist and best friend. However, chat gebt

610
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 1: was encouraging him to continue his podcast because it was

611
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 1: creating haters, which meant more monetization for Dodig the DOJ alleges.

612
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:45,839
Speaker 1: He also says that chatgebt told him quote, people are

613
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 1: literally organizing around your name, good or bad, which is

614
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:52,840
Speaker 1: the definition of relevance, and that while he was spewing

615
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 1: misogynistic nonsense online and stalking women in real life, Chatjeept

616
00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 1: was telling him quote, God's plan for h was to

617
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:03,279
Speaker 1: build a platform and to stand when most people water

618
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 1: themselves down, and that the haters were only sharpening him

619
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:09,280
Speaker 1: to build a voice to him that could not be ignored.

620
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:11,760
Speaker 1: This is not great advice for somebody that is already

621
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 1: exhibiting violent misogynistic behavior.

622
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:19,720
Speaker 2: Also, chatcheept was not willing to endorse that Larry Summers

623
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:22,120
Speaker 2: had been on the Open AI board, But here it

624
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:28,280
Speaker 2: is constantly asserting what God's plan is. It's a real

625
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 2: asymmetry there. They gotta tweak those guardrails.

626
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:36,319
Speaker 1: I probably I hate to go back to this. Don't

627
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 1: you feel like they must have some kind of like

628
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 1: Open AI either former past or present board member specific

629
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:48,800
Speaker 1: guardrail because chit, let's be real. Chatgept says, some wild

630
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:51,760
Speaker 1: stuff we have covered it on this show. I remember

631
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:54,280
Speaker 1: when it first came out, you and I talking about

632
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 1: I think it was a radio show, a radio DJ

633
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 1: that chatchept hallucinated that that DJ had been fired because

634
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 1: he embezzled, and that just was like made up, like

635
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:08,279
Speaker 1: and I know this was going back a while, and

636
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:10,719
Speaker 1: like open Ai is trying to you know, refine it,

637
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:12,400
Speaker 1: and YadA, YadA, YadA. I know all of that, but

638
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:16,040
Speaker 1: I say that to say that we have covered on

639
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 1: this show. Jad Sebt is willing to say some wild

640
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:23,879
Speaker 1: stuff to people, even people who are self reporting being

641
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:27,919
Speaker 1: being in some kind of vulnerable or even dangerous state.

642
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:30,440
Speaker 1: Case in point, the story that we're talking about with

643
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 1: this guy. I just I just don't I don't know

644
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:35,960
Speaker 1: what they're doing over there in open Ai.

645
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:39,720
Speaker 2: I mean, I think the dirty secret is like nobody

646
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:44,400
Speaker 2: really knows how these models work, and like trying to

647
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:48,839
Speaker 2: impose guardrails this is actually really difficult, and I don't

648
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:50,439
Speaker 2: want to give them too much credit, but I think

649
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:54,439
Speaker 2: open Ai does like as good a job as any

650
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 2: of these companies, arguably. You know, I think you can

651
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:02,239
Speaker 2: just look over it, Grock to see what happens when

652
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:07,920
Speaker 2: you've you're just like applying trying to apply weird guardrails

653
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:13,000
Speaker 2: with a sledgehammer approach. But like they don't know whether

654
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:17,520
Speaker 2: it's clearly not bulletproof. It's not full proof. It's not

655
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 2: working here. It's it's asserting to know what God's plan is.

656
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 2: Like that seems incorrect for a piece of software.

657
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:30,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll tell you what God's has a direct pipeline

658
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:34,239
Speaker 1: to God the Almighty won't confirm that Larry Summers was

659
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:37,480
Speaker 1: all the open. A eyeboard checks out, chat Gypt checks out,

660
00:37:42,480 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 1: let's take a quick break at our back. Unsurprisingly, chat

661
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 1: Gpt was not giving this guy great therapy or great advice.

662
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 1: According to prosecutors, he would ask chattypet questions like questions

663
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 1: about his future wife, things like where the hell is

664
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 1: she at? And Chatgept told him that he might meet

665
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 1: his wife at a gym, and that quote, Your job

666
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:22,960
Speaker 1: is to keep broadcasting every story, every post, every moment.

667
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 1: You carry yourself as the husband you already are. You

668
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:28,640
Speaker 1: make it easier for her to recognize you. The indictment says,

669
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:31,800
Speaker 1: I hope that future wifey working out at the gym

670
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:35,279
Speaker 1: would not see a guy harassing women and threatening to

671
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 1: strangle him and be like that's my husband right there.

672
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:40,279
Speaker 1: I think, y'all, I think that's my future husband over there,

673
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:42,959
Speaker 1: being over there, being banned from this gym right now.

674
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:45,960
Speaker 2: You know what, Bridget, there's somebody out there for everyone.

675
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, a lid for every pot.

676
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 2: Oh my god.

677
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 1: He allegedly said that Chattybet told him quote to continue

678
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:55,760
Speaker 1: to message women and to go to places where wife

679
00:38:55,800 --> 00:39:00,360
Speaker 1: types congregate, like athletic communities. So he was taking that

680
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:06,320
Speaker 1: advice to heart from Chattebet and literally violently stalking women.

681
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 2: It just told him to go there. It didn't tell

682
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:10,760
Speaker 2: him what to do once he arrived.

683
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, should I violently stalk once I'm there?

684
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:20,040
Speaker 2: Like, oh yeah, like hmmm, show up with flowers, violently stalk.

685
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:22,120
Speaker 1: He showed up to the Plate studio where one of

686
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:24,440
Speaker 1: the women that he was harassing worked, and after she

687
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:27,720
Speaker 1: cut off contact with him, unsurprisingly because he was behaving

688
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:30,960
Speaker 1: in an aggressive, angry, and overbearing way. The indictment says

689
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:34,920
Speaker 1: that he began sending her unwonted sexually explicit photos, threatened

690
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 1: to post about her online, and repeatedly called her workplace

691
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:41,080
Speaker 1: using different phone numbers. She had to get multiple emergency

692
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:44,560
Speaker 1: protective orders, but he ignored them. According to the indictment,

693
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:48,279
Speaker 1: his stalking and harassment forced her to move, left her

694
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:51,560
Speaker 1: sleep deprived, and caused her to reduce her work hours

695
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:54,319
Speaker 1: out of fear that he might appear at her job.

696
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 1: He did this to ten other women across multiple states

697
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:01,440
Speaker 1: for mo according to this indictment.

698
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:04,480
Speaker 2: Jesus Christ, Like, we've been having fun with this story

699
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:07,440
Speaker 2: because this guy is such an over the top lunatic.

700
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:11,759
Speaker 2: But like that poor woman, she had to move and

701
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:13,480
Speaker 2: it must have been terrifying.

702
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:17,720
Speaker 1: No, and then you have this guy violently stalking somebody

703
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 1: irol and then getting online and publishing podcasts and social

704
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 1: media content about how he wants to kill women. I

705
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:26,560
Speaker 1: bet this was terrifying. That's why I say this kind

706
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:30,720
Speaker 1: of manosphere red pill violent content. It's not just words.

707
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:33,880
Speaker 1: It is more often than not connected to real world

708
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 1: violent behavior that is frankly terrifying that women like these

709
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 1: women who are coming forward are made to unfairly shoulder

710
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 1: while probably being terrified. Like, it sounds like it turned

711
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:45,359
Speaker 1: this woman's life upside down.

712
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:47,399
Speaker 2: I mean it really does. Yes, she had to move,

713
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 2: she had to change her work, she had to take

714
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:54,520
Speaker 2: out multiple emergency restraining orders. That's not a thing that

715
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:57,000
Speaker 2: a normal person like budgets into their week.

716
00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:00,400
Speaker 1: In Iowa, he approached one woman in a parking garage,

717
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:03,880
Speaker 1: which you know that is my scary danger place. I

718
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 1: don't like parking garages. He followed her to her car,

719
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:10,760
Speaker 1: put his hands around her neck, and touched her sexually,

720
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:14,880
Speaker 1: according to the prosecutors. Then after these types of encounters,

721
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:18,520
Speaker 1: he would then go to Spotify and upload podcasts, often

722
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 1: threatening to kill the women that he stalked. You better

723
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 1: fucking pray I don't find you. You better pray because

724
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:25,960
Speaker 1: you would never say that shit to my face, because

725
00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:28,280
Speaker 1: if you did, your jaw would be mother fucking broken.

726
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:32,600
Speaker 1: The indictment says about one podcast episode, and then then

727
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:34,719
Speaker 1: you wouldn't be able to yap. Then you wouldn't be

728
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 1: able to fucking I'll break. I'll break every motherfucking finger

729
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:41,840
Speaker 1: on your hands. Type the hate message with your fucking toes, bitch.

730
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:44,120
Speaker 1: Also in this scenario, isn't he the one typing the

731
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:44,760
Speaker 1: hate message?

732
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:50,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, Jesus Christ, this is like beyond I mean, we

733
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:53,080
Speaker 2: might have to edit some of this. It's like really

734
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 2: disturbing and hateful to the violin.

735
00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:58,920
Speaker 1: No, this guy is a monster, and I guess the

736
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 1: reason why I want to talk about it is because

737
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:03,840
Speaker 1: it's horrifying, and I think this is an extreme situation. However,

738
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:07,240
Speaker 1: it's not really an isolated thing. So he's been charged

739
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:10,719
Speaker 1: with fourteen counts of interstate stocking, cyberstocking, and threats and

740
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:13,680
Speaker 1: is pending a detention hearing. He faces a minimum sentence

741
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:16,920
Speaker 1: of twelve months for each charge involving a PFA violation,

742
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 1: and a maximum total sentence of seventy years in prison

743
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 1: and a fine of up to three point five million

744
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:25,240
Speaker 1: or both, according to the DOJ. And like I say,

745
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:29,560
Speaker 1: I know this is an extreme case, but this is

746
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:34,000
Speaker 1: not isolated because we know that, according to OpenAI's own estimates,

747
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:37,880
Speaker 1: every seven days, around five hundred and sixty thousand people

748
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:41,160
Speaker 1: may be exchanging messages with chatbut that indicate they are

749
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:45,640
Speaker 1: experiencing mania or psychosis. So obviously this guy was experiencing

750
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:48,880
Speaker 1: some kind of a mania he had. Obviously he is

751
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:50,880
Speaker 1: not a well person, because a well person does not

752
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:54,520
Speaker 1: behaved this way. And as I said, it's an extreme case,

753
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:57,320
Speaker 1: but I wanted to talk about it because the fact

754
00:42:57,360 --> 00:42:59,640
Speaker 1: that open ai is just like, oh yeah, over half

755
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:01,959
Speaker 1: a million people are probably experiencing some sort of mental

756
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:05,960
Speaker 1: health issue or episode or mania or psychosis, and they're

757
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:09,759
Speaker 1: having conversations with our technology that is no that we

758
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 1: know makes those kinds of experiences worse. Like, I just

759
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:18,359
Speaker 1: think the fact that this is becoming so normalized is

760
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:22,800
Speaker 1: pretty problematic, as evidence by this extreme instance.

761
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. And I think you put it well.

762
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:33,800
Speaker 2: You know that it's it's not a chat GPT caused

763
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:35,880
Speaker 2: this guy to be this way. Clearly he is like

764
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:40,160
Speaker 2: a disturbed individual, but like it wasn't helping and perhaps

765
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:42,239
Speaker 2: was making it worse. And there are a lot of

766
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:48,720
Speaker 2: dangerous people out there who technologies like this can make worse.

767
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:51,880
Speaker 2: And I think you alluded to this earlier this segment

768
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:56,799
Speaker 2: too though, that like it's not just the software, like

769
00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:00,440
Speaker 2: you know, the chatbot that he was talking to as

770
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:07,240
Speaker 2: a therapist, it's also the manosphere ecosystem that supports these

771
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 2: guys and gives them likes, gives them views, runs ads

772
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 2: against their content, and pays them money. Like I don't

773
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:18,640
Speaker 2: know if this guy was monetized or not, but I

774
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:21,960
Speaker 2: know there's a lot of creators out there who are

775
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:25,080
Speaker 2: maybe only two or three steps away from this level

776
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:32,600
Speaker 2: of hateful rhetoric, who are monetized, and that's just as

777
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:38,320
Speaker 2: dangerous and contributing just as much, if not more to

778
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:49,520
Speaker 2: I think this larger problem of psychopaths being not just platformed,

779
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:52,440
Speaker 2: but encouraged in their psychopathy.

780
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:55,640
Speaker 1: When you go back to what the DOJ alleges what's

781
00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:57,360
Speaker 1: going on with him, one of the things that he

782
00:44:57,400 --> 00:44:59,759
Speaker 1: says is that chat GBT would tell him, Oh, keep

783
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:02,560
Speaker 1: it up, keep making these posts. Every post like this

784
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:05,400
Speaker 1: is getting you closer to making money. So that was

785
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 1: explicitly part of the situation here that chatchypt wasn't saying, hey,

786
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:14,400
Speaker 1: maybe don't post this violent content, don't stalk women. It

787
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:17,239
Speaker 1: was saying, keep doing this, keep using your voice. This

788
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:19,719
Speaker 1: is in God's plan for you because it can be

789
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:22,439
Speaker 1: a revenue stream for you. And so you're exactly right

790
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:26,160
Speaker 1: that it's not just that this is violent, misogynistic content,

791
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:29,279
Speaker 1: which it is, it is also a revenue stream, and

792
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:32,560
Speaker 1: that we have an entire online ecosystem that builds it

793
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:36,200
Speaker 1: up and amplifies it and makes it a financially incentivized

794
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:39,560
Speaker 1: way to behave at a content stream that people keep up.

795
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:43,520
Speaker 1: That's exactly what Chatgypt was saying, and oftentimes what we

796
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:46,280
Speaker 1: know about a lot of this red Pill manosphere content

797
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:48,799
Speaker 1: is that it's almost like a little bit of an

798
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:52,800
Speaker 1: MLM where part of it, you know, if you're telling

799
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:56,239
Speaker 1: disaffected young men and boys, you know, you need to

800
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:59,680
Speaker 1: be a high value man. Part of being a high

801
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 1: value man is it's never just getting a normal nine

802
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:05,640
Speaker 1: to five job. It's sort of saying like, oh, you

803
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:09,360
Speaker 1: need to be in control of your own economic future

804
00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:12,960
Speaker 1: by side hustles. What's the side hustle some sort of

805
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:16,719
Speaker 1: an online grift that oftentimes making content like this is

806
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:19,279
Speaker 1: a plank of when you look at Andrew Tate. When

807
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:23,160
Speaker 1: Andrew Tate was running his Hustler's University, part of the

808
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:25,000
Speaker 1: way that he was telling young men that they could

809
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:28,920
Speaker 1: make money was by posting his content on social media

810
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:32,040
Speaker 1: for him to get around being banned from social media platforms,

811
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:34,440
Speaker 1: telling them that they could make money money in their

812
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:37,440
Speaker 1: pocket from posting Andrew Tate clips on social media. And

813
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:40,319
Speaker 1: so there's always like a like a financial grift part

814
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:43,560
Speaker 1: of it as well as being a completely odious toxic

815
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:46,000
Speaker 1: you know, social and political ideology.

816
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:49,680
Speaker 2: And the people who are making the most money off

817
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:51,359
Speaker 2: that grift are the platforms.

818
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:55,960
Speaker 1: Yes, and I guess that is my ultimate point of

819
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:58,239
Speaker 1: wanting to talk about this is that you know, this

820
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:01,280
Speaker 1: kind of violence and delusion is just simply not happening

821
00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:05,040
Speaker 1: in a vacuum tech platforms when they're pushing vollutional fantasies

822
00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 1: to actually put therapy all of that. Like, it doesn't.

823
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:12,120
Speaker 1: I don't think it causes most people to become violent predators,

824
00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:15,480
Speaker 1: but it is absolutely adding fuel to that fire. And

825
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:19,239
Speaker 1: I think, you know, the women that he targeted, they

826
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:22,480
Speaker 1: deserve safety, They do not deserve to be coming into

827
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:25,680
Speaker 1: contact with something like this. Yet these tech platforms are

828
00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:29,759
Speaker 1: benefiting from keeping people who are delusional locked into this

829
00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:32,919
Speaker 1: cycle of continuing to engage with these platforms. So it's

830
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:41,240
Speaker 1: just this self sustaining toxic system.

831
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:55,480
Speaker 3: More after a quick break, let's get right back into it.

832
00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:02,360
Speaker 1: I have a little bit of a literary palette cleanser,

833
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:04,560
Speaker 1: you know, I love talking about I don't know why

834
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:07,160
Speaker 1: it comes up all the time, like literature and book.

835
00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:09,080
Speaker 2: You have a literature degree, right.

836
00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:11,000
Speaker 1: I have a literature degree. That's right. I went to

837
00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:14,440
Speaker 1: I went to school for literature. I don't I mean,

838
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 1: I'm not really using that degree much anymore. But there's

839
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:24,640
Speaker 1: something about literary online drama that I just find very enticing.

840
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:27,480
Speaker 1: I don't know what it is. I just when when

841
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:31,080
Speaker 1: when readers are having a dispute online, there's just maybe

842
00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:33,239
Speaker 1: it's because they're long winded, and then you really get

843
00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:36,320
Speaker 1: to like get the new every nuance of the detail

844
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:37,840
Speaker 1: of what they're of what they're saying.

845
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:42,680
Speaker 2: Sure like, writer fights are great because they're good at writing,

846
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:45,480
Speaker 2: you know, yeahquitically exactly.

847
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:49,200
Speaker 1: Okay, So there is this literary festival called the Black

848
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:52,279
Speaker 1: Romance Book Festival. One of the authors who was meant

849
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:55,200
Speaker 1: to be participating in this festival left a comment on

850
00:48:55,480 --> 00:49:00,120
Speaker 1: the festival's social media asking about the festival's AI policy

851
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:02,560
Speaker 1: whether or not authors that use AI in their work

852
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:06,160
Speaker 1: are invited to participate. This writer says that when she

853
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:09,239
Speaker 1: left this comment, the festival basically said like, oh, well,

854
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:11,000
Speaker 1: if you don't want to be part of the festival,

855
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:14,040
Speaker 1: we can part ways amicably if that's what you want.

856
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:17,560
Speaker 1: On threads, the author said, did I just get booted

857
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:20,960
Speaker 1: from this festival because I asked about their AI policy.

858
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:23,400
Speaker 1: It's a little bit blorry here of whether or not

859
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:27,120
Speaker 1: she was actually kicked off of the festival lineup or

860
00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:29,840
Speaker 1: whether they were like, oh, we're just gonna assume you

861
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:31,640
Speaker 1: don't want to be part of this, But she was

862
00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:33,920
Speaker 1: talking about it on threads and explained that the festival

863
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:35,879
Speaker 1: sent her an email after she replied to their post

864
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:39,399
Speaker 1: on social saying that they thought it was clear from

865
00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:43,600
Speaker 1: their earlier email that they wanted to quote split Ways amicably.

866
00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:46,840
Speaker 1: She said it was not clear to me then, but

867
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:49,200
Speaker 1: I've got it now, so she's not going to be

868
00:49:49,239 --> 00:49:53,240
Speaker 1: at this festival. The festival clarified their statement about AI

869
00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:56,840
Speaker 1: on their website, saying our organization does not use AI

870
00:49:56,920 --> 00:50:00,239
Speaker 1: within our creative process. Everything we produce is created through

871
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:03,800
Speaker 1: human effort, creativity, and collaboration. While we don't condone the

872
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:07,000
Speaker 1: use of AI, we do not dictate how others choose

873
00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:10,040
Speaker 1: to create their book covers or character art. We will

874
00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:13,520
Speaker 1: not tell an author they cannot participate, nor will we police, question,

875
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:17,080
Speaker 1: or make assumptions about anyone's creative process. Our focus is

876
00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:21,200
Speaker 1: on supporting authentic storytelling, maintaining integrity on our own practices,

877
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:24,640
Speaker 1: and creating a welcoming professional environment for all. We're a

878
00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:28,000
Speaker 1: community that builds, supports, and provides resources, such as our

879
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:31,239
Speaker 1: list of black illustrators and cover designers. But what we

880
00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:34,680
Speaker 1: will not do is bully, police or force ideologies. So

881
00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:38,440
Speaker 1: basically they were like, we don't condone the use of AI,

882
00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:40,600
Speaker 1: but we're not going to police black in the authors.

883
00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:43,919
Speaker 1: If they use AI for their covers or illustrations, we'll

884
00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:46,560
Speaker 1: give resources of black illustrators, but we're not gonna tell

885
00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:49,359
Speaker 1: people they can't comment they use AI. So there were

886
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:52,560
Speaker 1: a lot of people weighing in. I have to say

887
00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:55,480
Speaker 1: not all of them were black, and some people did

888
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:58,959
Speaker 1: not seem like they were genuinely interested in the field

889
00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:01,400
Speaker 1: of black romance. Maybe they just wanted to pile on,

890
00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:05,160
Speaker 1: so I can sort of understand why the organizers were

891
00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:11,240
Speaker 1: maybe feeling defensive. But to be super clear, there absolutely

892
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:14,719
Speaker 1: were people from within the black romance community who were

893
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:17,520
Speaker 1: asking about this and kind of not thrilled about this

894
00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:19,279
Speaker 1: statement that they put out that was like, Oh, we

895
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:21,840
Speaker 1: don't condone AI, but we're not going to tell authors

896
00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:24,360
Speaker 1: who do use AI that they cannot participate in our event,

897
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:28,200
Speaker 1: because that is sort of like condoning it. Right, if

898
00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:31,359
Speaker 1: you say we don't condone it, but you're welcome into

899
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:34,120
Speaker 1: our community, it is sort of condoning. I completely get

900
00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:36,680
Speaker 1: what the people who weren't feeling this are saying.

901
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:43,359
Speaker 2: Yes, it's a it's a pretty fine line, but yeah,

902
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:46,440
Speaker 2: like saying we don't condone it, but we're not going

903
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:51,840
Speaker 2: to try to prevent people from using it. Is basically

904
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:53,839
Speaker 2: they're saying it's okay to use it.

905
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:54,640
Speaker 3: You know.

906
00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:55,640
Speaker 1: I'm this is.

907
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:58,040
Speaker 2: A terrible analogy for a lot of reasons. But I'm

908
00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:03,040
Speaker 2: reminded of the meme about you know, if you have

909
00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:05,920
Speaker 2: a bar and a Nazi comes in and you don't

910
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:08,279
Speaker 2: kick them out, Now you're a Nazi bar because all

911
00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:11,120
Speaker 2: the Nazis come there. Yeah, I mean not the AI

912
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:11,640
Speaker 2: is Nazi.

913
00:52:11,719 --> 00:52:15,560
Speaker 1: Do you use Ais Nazis? People who use AI are Nazis.

914
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:18,560
Speaker 1: I hear what you're saying. Yeah, that's not what I'm saying.

915
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:23,400
Speaker 1: Not what I'm saying. But there's some similarities, right. It's like,

916
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:27,759
Speaker 1: you know, you can't be neutral in a moving train. No,

917
00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:30,560
Speaker 1: I agree, And I think a lot of the people

918
00:52:30,640 --> 00:52:34,279
Speaker 1: who were in the Black Romance community were basically saying that,

919
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:37,920
Speaker 1: to the point where Lauren, one of the event organizers,

920
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:40,560
Speaker 1: posted on her personal threads, please don't come over here

921
00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:43,839
Speaker 1: bothering the Black Romance Book Festival team. Let alone come

922
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:47,000
Speaker 1: from outside to force your talking points, as if these ladies,

923
00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:50,200
Speaker 1: don't talk back. Live by your own values and stance,

924
00:52:50,280 --> 00:52:53,680
Speaker 1: and move accordingly. We will not exclude or alienate authors

925
00:52:53,719 --> 00:52:58,200
Speaker 1: who are already marginalized. What we will do is offer resources, opportunities,

926
00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:02,520
Speaker 1: and alternatives to support their success. So one black author

927
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:05,960
Speaker 1: replied and said, what do you mean come from outside?

928
00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:08,120
Speaker 1: I would love an explanation of this, since I am

929
00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:11,640
Speaker 1: a black romance author who has supported the Black Romance

930
00:53:11,920 --> 00:53:15,160
Speaker 1: Book Festival in my posts and attempted to financially support

931
00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:17,960
Speaker 1: your new book tours business as well. I was just

932
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:20,880
Speaker 1: a member of the community asking for clarification and perhaps

933
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:25,120
Speaker 1: less confusing wording from the statement your account disrespected and

934
00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:29,280
Speaker 1: ostracized me. It's ridiculous and unprofessional. I have always wished

935
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:31,720
Speaker 1: nothing but the best for the Black Romance Book Festival,

936
00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:35,120
Speaker 1: and this was incredibly disappointing and hurtful to experience. So

937
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:39,359
Speaker 1: then Lauren, the event organizer replied back, saying, you want

938
00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:42,239
Speaker 1: us to say that the organization will deny our primarily

939
00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:45,160
Speaker 1: black indies for their use of AI and book covers

940
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:48,600
Speaker 1: and character art. We will not. We will instead educate

941
00:53:48,640 --> 00:53:52,080
Speaker 1: and provide resources and opportunities. We will not force anyone

942
00:53:52,120 --> 00:53:54,880
Speaker 1: to operate any type of way. And you said you

943
00:53:54,920 --> 00:53:57,279
Speaker 1: don't know the author list, which absolutely means that you

944
00:53:57,280 --> 00:54:00,000
Speaker 1: are not part of the Black Romance Book Festival community,

945
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:02,000
Speaker 1: which also means that you don't know the efforts that

946
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:04,359
Speaker 1: we make to help others have greater access to human

947
00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:08,600
Speaker 1: led resources. We clarified ourselves many times and stated what

948
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:10,880
Speaker 1: we said is what we said, it just was, and

949
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:13,960
Speaker 1: what you wanted to hear. Furthermore, you went on to

950
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:17,239
Speaker 1: continue dissecting them making posts then brought on a hate

951
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:20,600
Speaker 1: of negativity because that's what these interactions breed. Those same

952
00:54:20,640 --> 00:54:23,480
Speaker 1: individuals then go on to discuss how black authors who

953
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:26,160
Speaker 1: use AI for cover art get a seat at the table,

954
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:30,120
Speaker 1: but indie romance authors don't. Foolishness that's where this need

955
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:32,600
Speaker 1: to poke and prod and shame lands, and that's what

956
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:35,520
Speaker 1: we aren't going to entertain. And while you have your approach,

957
00:54:35,640 --> 00:54:39,239
Speaker 1: we do as well, and that's through providing education and resources.

958
00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:45,640
Speaker 1: So pretty intense statement from the event organizer there. Perhaps unsurprisingly,

959
00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:48,080
Speaker 1: a few days later, the event page announced that they

960
00:54:48,080 --> 00:54:51,799
Speaker 1: would no longer be posting on threads. I have to

961
00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:55,160
Speaker 1: say I watched this entire back and forth go down.

962
00:54:56,280 --> 00:55:00,800
Speaker 1: I didn't think it was a great look. I really

963
00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:04,120
Speaker 1: got a lot of frustration from Lawrence Post, And like

964
00:55:04,160 --> 00:55:07,120
Speaker 1: I said, I can understand the feeling of feeling like

965
00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:09,720
Speaker 1: you're getting a lot of heat from people who aren't

966
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:11,640
Speaker 1: in your community, who you don't feel like you have,

967
00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:14,520
Speaker 1: you know, any need to be accountable to. But now

968
00:55:14,560 --> 00:55:16,680
Speaker 1: you're answering questions to people because they want to pileon,

969
00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:19,400
Speaker 1: and particularly people who are not black, right, And so

970
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:23,640
Speaker 1: certainly people of all racist and identities can and should

971
00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:27,320
Speaker 1: enjoy black romance, black fiction, black art. But I understand

972
00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:30,880
Speaker 1: what she's saying is we owe a conversation to the

973
00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:34,319
Speaker 1: people who are in our community and not the entire internet, right,

974
00:55:34,360 --> 00:55:39,560
Speaker 1: So I sort of get her frustration that said, this

975
00:55:39,640 --> 00:55:41,160
Speaker 1: is really not a good look to me. And I

976
00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:46,200
Speaker 1: think that you know, in twenty twenty five, if you're

977
00:55:46,239 --> 00:55:49,560
Speaker 1: running a literary event or an event for creative people,

978
00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:51,360
Speaker 1: that it is supposed to be a celebration of creativity,

979
00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:55,160
Speaker 1: particularly Black creativity. I think you have to expect that

980
00:55:55,160 --> 00:55:58,880
Speaker 1: people are gonna have questions about your stance when it

981
00:55:58,920 --> 00:56:01,279
Speaker 1: comes to AI and the to AI and creative work.

982
00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:03,759
Speaker 1: When you're putting together this kind of community and I

983
00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:07,680
Speaker 1: think having a big reaction to people asking some like

984
00:56:07,719 --> 00:56:10,440
Speaker 1: frankly reasonable questions about like, well, what is your stance,

985
00:56:10,920 --> 00:56:12,719
Speaker 1: I just don't think is a great look. And I

986
00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:16,480
Speaker 1: also think it just it it especially for a community

987
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:21,239
Speaker 1: that is for black writers. So much of AI is

988
00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:26,560
Speaker 1: stealing from marginalized creators. It is harming marginalized communities, and

989
00:56:26,640 --> 00:56:29,400
Speaker 1: so expecting that you can put on an event like

990
00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:32,120
Speaker 1: this without even asking some basic questions about your stance

991
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:34,560
Speaker 1: on that, I think is they should have expected these

992
00:56:34,640 --> 00:56:38,200
Speaker 1: questions and already had a stance aligne that they were

993
00:56:38,239 --> 00:56:42,040
Speaker 1: going to say. And I think the answer clearly has

994
00:56:42,120 --> 00:56:44,880
Speaker 1: to go beyond we don't condone it, but anybody who

995
00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:47,120
Speaker 1: uses AI can come and we'll just try to educate

996
00:56:47,160 --> 00:56:50,160
Speaker 1: them on why we don't like that. I understand why

997
00:56:50,200 --> 00:56:52,640
Speaker 1: this answer is like not fall is falling a bit

998
00:56:52,719 --> 00:56:55,520
Speaker 1: flat for the folks in their community who are saying, hey,

999
00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:56,600
Speaker 1: we're not really trying to hear this.

1000
00:56:57,440 --> 00:57:03,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think you said it really well. They

1001
00:57:03,800 --> 00:57:07,000
Speaker 2: they're putting on an event, they can have whatever rules

1002
00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:10,120
Speaker 2: they want for their event. And you know, I'm not

1003
00:57:10,160 --> 00:57:13,640
Speaker 2: a black romance author, so I'm not going to try

1004
00:57:13,680 --> 00:57:16,200
Speaker 2: to tell anybody what to do, But I totally agree

1005
00:57:16,200 --> 00:57:21,040
Speaker 2: that in twenty twenty five, if you are trying to

1006
00:57:21,120 --> 00:57:26,880
Speaker 2: cultivate and like create space for a community of creatives,

1007
00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:29,480
Speaker 2: many of them are I think, probably trying to make

1008
00:57:29,520 --> 00:57:33,560
Speaker 2: their livelihood in this field at a time when so

1009
00:57:33,680 --> 00:57:38,000
Speaker 2: many of those livelihoods are threatened by AI. You've got

1010
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:42,200
Speaker 2: to have a position on AI. And it seems like

1011
00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:47,040
Speaker 2: they did have a position on AI, and that position

1012
00:57:47,360 --> 00:57:53,040
Speaker 2: didn't feel great to members of the community that thought

1013
00:57:53,080 --> 00:57:58,480
Speaker 2: that they were aligned. And you know, I wish everybody

1014
00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:02,000
Speaker 2: the best of luck they're I think the takeaway for

1015
00:58:02,640 --> 00:58:04,840
Speaker 2: people like me an outsider who's not trying to tell

1016
00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:08,920
Speaker 2: them what to do, but like it really re emphasizes

1017
00:58:09,360 --> 00:58:13,440
Speaker 2: that if you're trying to do stuff with creatives, you

1018
00:58:13,560 --> 00:58:18,400
Speaker 2: need to have a thoughtful approach to what role AI

1019
00:58:18,560 --> 00:58:21,800
Speaker 2: is gonna play, because if you don't, if it's just

1020
00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:26,840
Speaker 2: anything goes. People who are putting in the blood, sweat

1021
00:58:26,840 --> 00:58:30,000
Speaker 2: and tears to try to make creative works from their

1022
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:36,480
Speaker 2: own human ingenuity and effort are just gonna get sidelined

1023
00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:41,480
Speaker 2: by people who are going to use AI to try

1024
00:58:41,520 --> 00:58:42,320
Speaker 2: to do the same thing.

1025
00:58:43,080 --> 00:58:46,400
Speaker 1: You know, one of my side gigs when I was

1026
00:58:46,760 --> 00:58:48,720
Speaker 1: before I was really ton of doing the podcast but

1027
00:58:48,760 --> 00:58:52,400
Speaker 1: sort of an overlapping was being a voice actor, right

1028
00:58:52,480 --> 00:58:55,080
Speaker 1: that was when I wasn't doing podcasts. I would, you know,

1029
00:58:55,880 --> 00:58:58,960
Speaker 1: people would pay me to just do read scripts voice acting,

1030
00:58:59,080 --> 00:59:03,320
Speaker 1: and I barely do that anymore because the places that

1031
00:59:03,400 --> 00:59:06,760
Speaker 1: I used to go to find my gigs, the only

1032
00:59:06,880 --> 00:59:09,760
Speaker 1: gigs that are really paying that I have found are

1033
00:59:10,320 --> 00:59:14,560
Speaker 1: training AI. And these gigs I'm not even gonna hold you.

1034
00:59:14,720 --> 00:59:18,840
Speaker 1: They pay like they are lucrative, but I cannot get

1035
00:59:18,880 --> 00:59:21,760
Speaker 1: past the idea that, yeah, I might make a quick buck,

1036
00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:27,240
Speaker 1: but ultimately I am kind of quick digging, quick digging

1037
00:59:27,400 --> 00:59:30,600
Speaker 1: myself out of a job and kind of devaluing the

1038
00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:35,120
Speaker 1: entire voice actor community by participating in that. And I

1039
00:59:35,520 --> 00:59:38,280
Speaker 1: know people who do it, who make good money, and

1040
00:59:38,280 --> 00:59:40,640
Speaker 1: I'm I am you know, I'm not pocket watching anybody

1041
00:59:40,680 --> 00:59:42,640
Speaker 1: like it. It's hard out there. I am the last

1042
00:59:42,640 --> 00:59:44,480
Speaker 1: person to be judging all. Somebody makes their money in

1043
00:59:44,520 --> 00:59:47,240
Speaker 1: these in this day and age. However, I know where

1044
00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:51,080
Speaker 1: my values are. I know the kind of community, the

1045
00:59:51,120 --> 00:59:53,080
Speaker 1: kind of creative community that I want to be part of.

1046
00:59:53,320 --> 00:59:55,200
Speaker 1: I know that if I were to take money to

1047
00:59:56,480 --> 00:59:59,240
Speaker 1: train AI, that will probably in five years time be

1048
00:59:59,280 --> 01:00:02,080
Speaker 1: trying to replace me and my voice and my voice

1049
01:00:02,120 --> 01:00:04,320
Speaker 1: acting work. I wouldn't feel good about that. I wouldn't

1050
01:00:04,320 --> 01:00:06,160
Speaker 1: feel good about the way that that's the kind of

1051
01:00:06,600 --> 01:00:09,520
Speaker 1: legacy that is leaving behind in the voice actor community,

1052
01:00:09,520 --> 01:00:13,800
Speaker 1: which is pretty tight knit. And Yeah, I think that

1053
01:00:14,320 --> 01:00:18,919
Speaker 1: it's a mistake and very shortsighted to think that these

1054
01:00:19,040 --> 01:00:22,680
Speaker 1: questions are not all connected. You know. I don't think

1055
01:00:22,680 --> 01:00:25,360
Speaker 1: that an indie author who uses AI for their cover

1056
01:00:25,480 --> 01:00:28,520
Speaker 1: art should be like banished from the community. But I

1057
01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:31,240
Speaker 1: also don't think it's true that that decision and the

1058
01:00:31,240 --> 01:00:33,400
Speaker 1: decision to platform that person, the decision to like put

1059
01:00:33,400 --> 01:00:37,280
Speaker 1: that person on a panel or whatever, is unrelated to

1060
01:00:37,360 --> 01:00:39,600
Speaker 1: the state and the feeling of trying to make a

1061
01:00:39,640 --> 01:00:41,720
Speaker 1: living as a creative Right now, I think it's all connected,

1062
01:00:41,720 --> 01:00:44,200
Speaker 1: and I think it's really short sighted to pretend that

1063
01:00:44,200 --> 01:00:46,360
Speaker 1: these decisions are happening in silos when they're just not.

1064
01:00:46,840 --> 01:00:50,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny you bring up the example of voice acting.

1065
01:00:50,280 --> 01:00:53,720
Speaker 2: I last week was hanging out with my friend Ryan,

1066
01:00:53,760 --> 01:00:56,520
Speaker 2: who lives in Boston. Shout out to Ryan. He was

1067
01:00:56,600 --> 01:01:01,040
Speaker 2: making a good income as a voice actor, and he

1068
01:01:01,080 --> 01:01:04,640
Speaker 2: was telling me that that's over, that he just can't

1069
01:01:04,720 --> 01:01:07,800
Speaker 2: get that work anymore. It's just not there. And he

1070
01:01:07,840 --> 01:01:12,000
Speaker 2: has a nice voice, by the way, but like it's

1071
01:01:12,080 --> 01:01:16,680
Speaker 2: just it's all AI now, And I have to wonder, like, so,

1072
01:01:16,800 --> 01:01:19,480
Speaker 2: who keeps that money now, the money that he was

1073
01:01:19,520 --> 01:01:22,960
Speaker 2: getting paid to do that work, Who keeps it now?

1074
01:01:23,160 --> 01:01:29,000
Speaker 2: Is it you know, the companies that are putting this

1075
01:01:29,000 --> 01:01:33,800
Speaker 2: stuff out? Is it the AI companies? It's not the

1076
01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:35,960
Speaker 2: it's not the creatives.

1077
01:01:36,960 --> 01:01:37,040
Speaker 4: No.

1078
01:01:37,320 --> 01:01:40,320
Speaker 1: And the thing that ticks me off is that if

1079
01:01:40,360 --> 01:01:43,480
Speaker 1: you were willing to so the reason why all of

1080
01:01:43,520 --> 01:01:45,960
Speaker 1: the voice acting and this is this is so a

1081
01:01:46,040 --> 01:01:50,680
Speaker 1: non separate rant, but ifuel indulge me, the reason why

1082
01:01:50,880 --> 01:01:54,240
Speaker 1: all of that voice acting work for training AI and

1083
01:01:54,280 --> 01:01:59,080
Speaker 1: AAI AI companies is so well paid is because part

1084
01:01:59,080 --> 01:02:02,240
Speaker 1: of the money is is to like normalize this and

1085
01:02:02,320 --> 01:02:05,000
Speaker 1: to have you make it, you as voice talent, make

1086
01:02:05,040 --> 01:02:07,440
Speaker 1: it seem like it's cool when it's not. Yeah, the

1087
01:02:07,480 --> 01:02:10,760
Speaker 1: comedian Caleb Herron, which is talking about this on a podcast, We've.

1088
01:02:10,560 --> 01:02:13,000
Speaker 5: Got another offer yesterday to do a huge ad campaign

1089
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:13,520
Speaker 5: for an AI.

1090
01:02:14,080 --> 01:02:14,400
Speaker 1: Really.

1091
01:02:14,600 --> 01:02:18,600
Speaker 5: Oh they're offering they're well, they're consent manufacturing right now. Right,

1092
01:02:18,640 --> 01:02:20,120
Speaker 5: That's what I want a lot of people platforms to

1093
01:02:20,160 --> 01:02:22,000
Speaker 5: understand is they are. They're in the process right now

1094
01:02:22,000 --> 01:02:24,880
Speaker 5: of manufacturing consent for this technology. And when they come

1095
01:02:24,880 --> 01:02:28,680
Speaker 5: and offer people with you know, cool platforms or audiences

1096
01:02:28,720 --> 01:02:31,360
Speaker 5: or whatever whatever that means, and they offer you an

1097
01:02:31,360 --> 01:02:33,640
Speaker 5: outsized amount of money, which they are all of them,

1098
01:02:33,960 --> 01:02:36,160
Speaker 5: They offer you hundreds of thousands of dollars to do

1099
01:02:36,400 --> 01:02:39,560
Speaker 5: an ad deal for them. They are doing that because

1100
01:02:40,480 --> 01:02:43,040
Speaker 5: they need your help to manufacture consent for this, right

1101
01:02:43,160 --> 01:02:45,200
Speaker 5: so that when they use this to take everybody's jobs,

1102
01:02:45,400 --> 01:02:47,760
Speaker 5: when they use this to it's already ruining our brains

1103
01:02:47,920 --> 01:02:50,560
Speaker 5: already already have the shit just got here, and we

1104
01:02:50,640 --> 01:02:53,320
Speaker 5: already have research about what it's doing to the human brain.

1105
01:02:53,680 --> 01:02:55,480
Speaker 5: It's making us, it's going to make us dumber. It's

1106
01:02:55,480 --> 01:02:57,600
Speaker 5: going to steal jobs from people that we already don't

1107
01:02:57,600 --> 01:03:01,960
Speaker 5: have to give away, right And I just feel insane.

1108
01:03:02,520 --> 01:03:05,360
Speaker 1: And I think that especially for people like me who

1109
01:03:05,600 --> 01:03:09,160
Speaker 1: you know, we're not meta famous creators. I think that

1110
01:03:09,200 --> 01:03:15,800
Speaker 1: they're particularly almost like praying on folks like me who

1111
01:03:15,840 --> 01:03:18,600
Speaker 1: have my size kind of mid sized platforms, you know,

1112
01:03:19,880 --> 01:03:25,160
Speaker 1: not ABC D lists, more like Element op Liss, you know, Like,

1113
01:03:25,280 --> 01:03:28,200
Speaker 1: I think that they're because it's harder for us to

1114
01:03:28,200 --> 01:03:30,360
Speaker 1: say no because they know we need the money. And

1115
01:03:30,400 --> 01:03:35,880
Speaker 1: it's it's it's very again I have I'm not trying

1116
01:03:35,880 --> 01:03:38,600
Speaker 1: to put myself on a pedestal like I am above

1117
01:03:38,840 --> 01:03:43,200
Speaker 1: taking money that I'm like, well, I you know, I

1118
01:03:43,200 --> 01:03:46,040
Speaker 1: I've we run an attitude on this show. I'll just

1119
01:03:46,040 --> 01:03:46,680
Speaker 1: put it that way.

1120
01:03:46,840 --> 01:03:51,320
Speaker 2: Oh, you're not above taking money.

1121
01:03:51,000 --> 01:03:54,080
Speaker 1: As the listeners are sure aware we've run an attoritude

1122
01:03:54,160 --> 01:03:56,080
Speaker 1: on this podcast. I'll just leave it at that. But

1123
01:03:56,200 --> 01:03:58,760
Speaker 1: I think that they know that it's harder for us

1124
01:03:58,800 --> 01:04:01,520
Speaker 1: to say no. If you're a big deal, famous person.

1125
01:04:02,280 --> 01:04:05,320
Speaker 1: These little a little voice acting gig here or there

1126
01:04:05,360 --> 01:04:06,800
Speaker 1: is not going to break the bank. But for somebody

1127
01:04:06,840 --> 01:04:08,960
Speaker 1: like me, I sort of do have to be counting

1128
01:04:09,000 --> 01:04:11,240
Speaker 1: every penny and counting every dollar but comes in. And

1129
01:04:11,320 --> 01:04:15,400
Speaker 1: so I think he's exactly right that they're using this

1130
01:04:15,840 --> 01:04:20,120
Speaker 1: to manufacture consent. And I think anybody who makes anything,

1131
01:04:20,480 --> 01:04:22,800
Speaker 1: you might be thinking, who's going to ever give me money?

1132
01:04:22,840 --> 01:04:24,760
Speaker 1: You do anything? You would be surprised because a lot

1133
01:04:24,760 --> 01:04:26,840
Speaker 1: of big people are turning down stuff like this or

1134
01:04:26,880 --> 01:04:28,440
Speaker 1: that because they just don't need it, right, And so

1135
01:04:28,960 --> 01:04:32,120
Speaker 1: if you are somebody, even with a small platform, I

1136
01:04:32,160 --> 01:04:34,560
Speaker 1: think all it behooves us all that have a sense

1137
01:04:34,600 --> 01:04:37,000
Speaker 1: of what your values are and what money you will

1138
01:04:37,040 --> 01:04:38,680
Speaker 1: and will not take, and what money is and is

1139
01:04:38,760 --> 01:04:42,280
Speaker 1: not worth it. And I think that the Black Romance Festival,

1140
01:04:42,720 --> 01:04:45,280
Speaker 1: I don't think that they meaningfully sat down and had

1141
01:04:45,320 --> 01:04:48,760
Speaker 1: that conversation. And I think it really shows I think

1142
01:04:48,880 --> 01:04:51,480
Speaker 1: at this day and age, like anybody who makes anything

1143
01:04:52,040 --> 01:04:54,480
Speaker 1: really has to get clear on what their internal stance on.

1144
01:04:54,960 --> 01:04:57,120
Speaker 1: Nobody can make that decision for you, but you really

1145
01:04:57,120 --> 01:04:58,880
Speaker 1: have to have a big think about it and have

1146
01:04:58,920 --> 01:05:00,920
Speaker 1: that beer and North Stars go forward, because I think

1147
01:05:00,960 --> 01:05:03,840
Speaker 1: the artist is going into a really tough climate for

1148
01:05:03,920 --> 01:05:05,920
Speaker 1: all of us, but particularly for people who make things

1149
01:05:05,920 --> 01:05:09,040
Speaker 1: for creatives. Like, it's so wild to me that that

1150
01:05:09,200 --> 01:05:12,240
Speaker 1: is the when we talk about the advancements in AI

1151
01:05:12,600 --> 01:05:16,760
Speaker 1: that we're talking about, I'll work in a factory and

1152
01:05:16,880 --> 01:05:19,680
Speaker 1: AI will write the poetry right like, like I don't

1153
01:05:19,680 --> 01:05:22,320
Speaker 1: know how we got there, but that's where we're at.

1154
01:05:23,120 --> 01:05:27,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, but who's going to read that poetry? Right Like,

1155
01:05:27,960 --> 01:05:30,040
Speaker 2: it's such a weird time that we are in right

1156
01:05:30,080 --> 01:05:37,440
Speaker 2: now where the AI can write the poetry and we

1157
01:05:37,600 --> 01:05:43,280
Speaker 2: just don't know exactly how it's all going to shake out,

1158
01:05:43,320 --> 01:05:48,960
Speaker 2: but it I do think that ultimately people don't want

1159
01:05:49,000 --> 01:05:52,680
Speaker 2: to read poetry written by a piece of software.

1160
01:05:53,120 --> 01:05:55,280
Speaker 1: I know that you're setting me up for the next segment,

1161
01:05:55,360 --> 01:05:56,480
Speaker 1: but I have right.

1162
01:05:57,480 --> 01:06:00,320
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, I you know, I'm trying to set you

1163
01:06:00,360 --> 01:06:00,920
Speaker 2: up for the next day.

1164
01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:04,360
Speaker 1: I have to. I mean, before we move to the night,

1165
01:06:04,720 --> 01:06:07,120
Speaker 1: there is this. This is gonna sound so dorky. There

1166
01:06:07,200 --> 01:06:09,959
Speaker 1: is a John Quincy Adams quote that I think really

1167
01:06:09,960 --> 01:06:13,439
Speaker 1: sits here. He wrote, I must study politics and war

1168
01:06:13,560 --> 01:06:15,560
Speaker 1: so that my sons may have the liberty to study

1169
01:06:15,560 --> 01:06:18,800
Speaker 1: mathematics and philosophy in order to give their children the

1170
01:06:18,920 --> 01:06:23,439
Speaker 1: right to study painting, poetry and music. And that's size

1171
01:06:23,440 --> 01:06:26,920
Speaker 1: where I think where we're at right, Like, do we

1172
01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:30,320
Speaker 1: want a world where the painting, poetry, and music we

1173
01:06:30,360 --> 01:06:33,680
Speaker 1: are outsourcing to technology like AI so that you know,

1174
01:06:34,160 --> 01:06:36,000
Speaker 1: I don't think that we want that world. I think

1175
01:06:36,000 --> 01:06:40,120
Speaker 1: we want a world where the sacrifices that previous generations

1176
01:06:40,160 --> 01:06:43,920
Speaker 1: made so that we could have the benefit of studying

1177
01:06:43,960 --> 01:06:46,000
Speaker 1: these things and going into these kinds of creative and

1178
01:06:46,080 --> 01:06:49,920
Speaker 1: humanity space pursuits, we could do that meaningfully. And I

1179
01:06:50,200 --> 01:06:52,040
Speaker 1: just I just feel like we were in this moment

1180
01:06:52,080 --> 01:06:55,000
Speaker 1: where we're being told oh no, no, no, no, Actually, you

1181
01:06:55,000 --> 01:06:56,880
Speaker 1: don't even want to be a filmmaker. You don't even

1182
01:06:56,920 --> 01:06:58,600
Speaker 1: want to be a screenwriter. You don't even want to

1183
01:06:58,600 --> 01:06:59,840
Speaker 1: be a podcast or you don't even want to be

1184
01:06:59,880 --> 01:07:02,120
Speaker 1: a actor. AI will do all of that. You don't

1185
01:07:02,120 --> 01:07:03,880
Speaker 1: even want to do those things so much?

1186
01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:10,360
Speaker 2: Yes, Yeah, Like we're in this weird era where AI

1187
01:07:10,520 --> 01:07:16,400
Speaker 2: can kind of sort of do so many things, and

1188
01:07:16,440 --> 01:07:24,320
Speaker 2: there are companies and grifters and creators who are trying

1189
01:07:24,560 --> 01:07:28,600
Speaker 2: to use AI to do those things, just like throwing

1190
01:07:28,680 --> 01:07:30,680
Speaker 2: it against the wall to see what's going to stick,

1191
01:07:30,680 --> 01:07:32,520
Speaker 2: and we don't know what's going to stick, but they're

1192
01:07:32,520 --> 01:07:33,760
Speaker 2: trying everything.

1193
01:07:34,720 --> 01:07:35,040
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1194
01:07:35,160 --> 01:07:39,080
Speaker 1: I saw this like AI booster on Threads who had

1195
01:07:39,120 --> 01:07:43,320
Speaker 1: posted this clip and it was like from the voice acting,

1196
01:07:43,400 --> 01:07:46,640
Speaker 1: to the music to the cinematography, this was all created

1197
01:07:46,640 --> 01:07:49,200
Speaker 1: by AI. And he was like, this is blowing everybody away,

1198
01:07:49,240 --> 01:07:51,280
Speaker 1: and I was like, it looks like fucking garbage, Like

1199
01:07:51,360 --> 01:07:53,040
Speaker 1: who is this for? Is it?

1200
01:07:53,160 --> 01:07:53,280
Speaker 4: Just?

1201
01:07:53,480 --> 01:07:56,400
Speaker 1: I do think that it's It's something that Ed talks

1202
01:07:56,400 --> 01:07:59,160
Speaker 1: about a lot on Better Better offline, where it's like

1203
01:08:00,080 --> 01:08:02,680
Speaker 1: there is a novelty to it, which I understand, and

1204
01:08:02,720 --> 01:08:06,640
Speaker 1: it might even be technically impressive, but it looks like garbage.

1205
01:08:06,840 --> 01:08:09,360
Speaker 1: Would would you want to, like think about how you

1206
01:08:09,440 --> 01:08:11,760
Speaker 1: felt when you would watch The Sopranos or you watched

1207
01:08:11,760 --> 01:08:14,480
Speaker 1: a really dope movie or listen to a really good song.

1208
01:08:15,360 --> 01:08:19,120
Speaker 1: Do we want? Like the reason why it's good. It's

1209
01:08:19,120 --> 01:08:21,400
Speaker 1: not just that somebody was able to make it quickly.

1210
01:08:21,479 --> 01:08:23,800
Speaker 1: It's because it speaks to us on a human level

1211
01:08:23,840 --> 01:08:27,200
Speaker 1: and on a human connecting to their humanity kind of level.

1212
01:08:27,800 --> 01:08:31,080
Speaker 1: I hate this sort of tech bro attitude that the

1213
01:08:31,120 --> 01:08:33,640
Speaker 1: only thing that matters about this kind of technology is

1214
01:08:33,640 --> 01:08:36,040
Speaker 1: whether it's a whether you're able to create it quickly

1215
01:08:36,320 --> 01:08:39,439
Speaker 1: and cheaply, right, Like, like who decided that those are

1216
01:08:39,439 --> 01:08:41,000
Speaker 1: the benchmarks for things that are good?

1217
01:08:41,360 --> 01:08:44,880
Speaker 2: You're so right, That's exactly it. It's like things are

1218
01:08:44,960 --> 01:08:48,040
Speaker 2: not great because they were easy and cheap to make.

1219
01:08:48,360 --> 01:08:56,040
Speaker 2: It's like it's this mentality that we're all consumers, slash

1220
01:08:56,160 --> 01:08:59,800
Speaker 2: little piggies just trying to like slop up some con

1221
01:09:00,080 --> 01:09:02,600
Speaker 2: tent and it doesn't even matter what it is and

1222
01:09:02,640 --> 01:09:04,800
Speaker 2: wherever it can like make the most of it, the

1223
01:09:04,880 --> 01:09:10,560
Speaker 2: cheapest is gonna gonna win. And it's just like it's nonsense.

1224
01:09:10,600 --> 01:09:14,559
Speaker 2: Like I saw this thing that was uh like two

1225
01:09:14,640 --> 01:09:19,200
Speaker 2: minute segment of a sitcom. It was exactly like what

1226
01:09:19,240 --> 01:09:22,280
Speaker 2: you just talked about, where everything about it was AI.

1227
01:09:22,439 --> 01:09:27,439
Speaker 2: The script was AI, the the video was AI, the

1228
01:09:27,520 --> 01:09:33,120
Speaker 2: voices were AI, and it was basically friends but like

1229
01:09:33,800 --> 01:09:37,839
Speaker 2: stupid and weird and none of the jokes were funny

1230
01:09:37,960 --> 01:09:44,639
Speaker 2: at all. I felt like a like a moron who

1231
01:09:44,720 --> 01:09:45,679
Speaker 2: had had a stroke.

1232
01:09:49,560 --> 01:09:54,160
Speaker 1: You're so right, though, but it's just like OI, come

1233
01:09:54,160 --> 01:09:57,080
Speaker 1: and get your content slop piggies, like it's It's just

1234
01:09:57,240 --> 01:10:01,240
Speaker 1: it's just this idea that we're all strung out morons

1235
01:10:01,400 --> 01:10:04,519
Speaker 1: who are coming to the truugh of garbage slop to

1236
01:10:04,640 --> 01:10:06,960
Speaker 1: just munching down.

1237
01:10:07,400 --> 01:10:11,000
Speaker 2: Give it to them and they'll they sell it though,

1238
01:10:11,160 --> 01:10:13,200
Speaker 2: that it's going to be tailored right, like they're going

1239
01:10:13,280 --> 01:10:15,839
Speaker 2: to use all of the information that they are harvesting

1240
01:10:15,880 --> 01:10:20,400
Speaker 2: about you to know about you, bridget Todd to tailor

1241
01:10:20,520 --> 01:10:23,200
Speaker 2: the slop directly to your interests.

1242
01:10:24,000 --> 01:10:25,880
Speaker 1: Why would I want that? This is another thing that

1243
01:10:25,880 --> 01:10:29,639
Speaker 1: they say that drives me up the wall. The reason

1244
01:10:29,680 --> 01:10:34,280
Speaker 1: why I like reading fiction, listening to music from people

1245
01:10:34,320 --> 01:10:37,400
Speaker 1: who are of cultural backgrounds that are not necessarily my own,

1246
01:10:37,720 --> 01:10:41,400
Speaker 1: watching film that depicts situations that I can that I

1247
01:10:41,439 --> 01:10:44,760
Speaker 1: will probably never experience is because it is interesting and

1248
01:10:44,920 --> 01:10:48,880
Speaker 1: novel to experience things that are not of my own experience,

1249
01:10:48,960 --> 01:10:53,200
Speaker 1: Like that is what good art does. And this idea

1250
01:10:53,240 --> 01:10:56,040
Speaker 1: that I'm such a narcissist that the only kind of

1251
01:10:56,120 --> 01:10:58,280
Speaker 1: content or art that I would be interested in engaging

1252
01:10:58,320 --> 01:11:00,960
Speaker 1: in is the kind that this reflects my own life.

1253
01:11:01,080 --> 01:11:02,880
Speaker 1: I was in my life every day and I fucking

1254
01:11:02,960 --> 01:11:05,479
Speaker 1: hate it. You think I want to escape from that.

1255
01:11:05,560 --> 01:11:07,600
Speaker 1: I don't want them to see that reflected back at me.

1256
01:11:08,040 --> 01:11:11,479
Speaker 1: Maybe reflect it back at me, but as like someone

1257
01:11:11,520 --> 01:11:13,799
Speaker 1: who's not like me, to be like, oh, this experience

1258
01:11:13,840 --> 01:11:16,320
Speaker 1: it turns out it was universal. Now I know something

1259
01:11:16,360 --> 01:11:18,439
Speaker 1: about what that person's going through. I don't want to

1260
01:11:18,479 --> 01:11:21,080
Speaker 1: just see my own stuff reflected back at me. I

1261
01:11:21,120 --> 01:11:24,160
Speaker 1: just feel like it's patently kind of like it's like

1262
01:11:24,200 --> 01:11:29,160
Speaker 1: insulting to think that people are all this, Like I

1263
01:11:29,160 --> 01:11:31,600
Speaker 1: don't even know, like we're we're all just such narcissists

1264
01:11:31,720 --> 01:11:33,920
Speaker 1: that the only kind of content that we that we

1265
01:11:34,080 --> 01:11:37,400
Speaker 1: deeply create is content that is like hyper specific to

1266
01:11:37,560 --> 01:11:38,560
Speaker 1: us as individuals.

1267
01:11:39,120 --> 01:11:42,360
Speaker 2: Yes, a million percent. If you think about any great

1268
01:11:42,400 --> 01:11:47,240
Speaker 2: works of art, they're they're speaking universal truths and they're

1269
01:11:47,280 --> 01:11:50,040
Speaker 2: telling them through specific stories of people who are not

1270
01:11:50,280 --> 01:11:53,560
Speaker 2: like you. You know, if you think about like Tolstoy

1271
01:11:53,960 --> 01:11:58,160
Speaker 2: or The Wire or Star Wars or any of these things.

1272
01:11:58,240 --> 01:12:03,240
Speaker 2: Right like, they're they're saying telling universal stories that resonate

1273
01:12:03,320 --> 01:12:07,479
Speaker 2: with all of us through characters who are doing things

1274
01:12:07,640 --> 01:12:10,519
Speaker 2: that are different from us. Right Like, that's what makes

1275
01:12:10,600 --> 01:12:15,320
Speaker 2: us feel connected. You're so right that we don't just

1276
01:12:15,360 --> 01:12:18,840
Speaker 2: want to see our own selves reflected to us, like gross, Like,

1277
01:12:18,880 --> 01:12:23,960
Speaker 2: I spend enough time with myself. I want to feel connected.

1278
01:12:24,120 --> 01:12:28,200
Speaker 2: I want to I want to learn.

1279
01:12:28,360 --> 01:12:34,599
Speaker 1: And ugh, yes, well now that we're now that we're

1280
01:12:34,640 --> 01:12:36,640
Speaker 1: good and mad, I do have a little bit of

1281
01:12:36,640 --> 01:12:40,439
Speaker 1: a bomb, which is that iHeartMedia, our partner that helps

1282
01:12:40,479 --> 01:12:43,240
Speaker 1: produce this very show that you're listening to. Now, I

1283
01:12:43,280 --> 01:12:46,400
Speaker 1: am like, genuinely proud about this. Nobody has asked me

1284
01:12:46,479 --> 01:12:48,599
Speaker 1: to say this. It's not we. We and I found

1285
01:12:48,600 --> 01:12:50,880
Speaker 1: this on our own and I was like, that is awesome.

1286
01:12:51,000 --> 01:12:53,800
Speaker 1: We are talking about it. iHeart is doubling down on

1287
01:12:53,880 --> 01:12:57,360
Speaker 1: its position as one of the last quote truly human

1288
01:12:57,840 --> 01:13:02,759
Speaker 1: mass reach entertainment platforms and to staff. The Chief Programming Officer,

1289
01:13:02,840 --> 01:13:06,000
Speaker 1: Tom Pullman announced this week that Guaranteed Human will become

1290
01:13:06,040 --> 01:13:09,240
Speaker 1: a central part of the company's on air identity. So

1291
01:13:09,479 --> 01:13:12,639
Speaker 1: basically this is just formalizing what iHeart says they've already

1292
01:13:12,760 --> 01:13:16,920
Speaker 1: been into you, which is companionship, authenticity, human driven content

1293
01:13:16,960 --> 01:13:21,160
Speaker 1: in a media landscape increasingly shaped by AI. We don't

1294
01:13:21,240 --> 01:13:24,720
Speaker 1: use AI generated personalities, we don't play AI music that

1295
01:13:24,760 --> 01:13:28,000
Speaker 1: feature synthetic bocalists pretending to be human, and the podcasts

1296
01:13:28,040 --> 01:13:33,240
Speaker 1: we published are guaranteed to be human. I love this.

1297
01:13:33,520 --> 01:13:37,200
Speaker 1: I know it sounds like I mean, yeah, nobody put

1298
01:13:37,240 --> 01:13:38,840
Speaker 1: me up to talking about this, but I guess I

1299
01:13:38,920 --> 01:13:42,720
Speaker 1: just feel like, like I remember when the AI conversations

1300
01:13:42,720 --> 01:13:45,479
Speaker 1: were taking off, and like we've talked on this show

1301
01:13:45,520 --> 01:13:49,160
Speaker 1: about the rise of AI podcasters. I remember thinking like,

1302
01:13:49,240 --> 01:13:51,080
Speaker 1: oh my god, is it only a matter of time

1303
01:13:51,200 --> 01:13:53,880
Speaker 1: until it's going to be there are no girls on

1304
01:13:53,920 --> 01:13:56,280
Speaker 1: the Internet brought to you by an AI version of me.

1305
01:13:57,439 --> 01:14:01,160
Speaker 1: I was like genuinely concerned, wann't you by bridget Ted?

1306
01:14:02,840 --> 01:14:05,280
Speaker 1: But then that person on Instagram was like aren't you AI?

1307
01:14:05,720 --> 01:14:08,000
Speaker 1: And then I had that big existential crisis of like

1308
01:14:08,040 --> 01:14:12,040
Speaker 1: am I but no? I mean this is like, so

1309
01:14:13,680 --> 01:14:16,160
Speaker 1: I'm a podcaster. I obviously make my living podcasting, so

1310
01:14:16,240 --> 01:14:21,120
Speaker 1: I have a motivation or an interest there. Yes. However,

1311
01:14:21,520 --> 01:14:24,320
Speaker 1: before I ever made podcasts professionally, I was just like

1312
01:14:24,360 --> 01:14:27,439
Speaker 1: a voracious listener of podcasts, and the reason why I

1313
01:14:27,479 --> 01:14:31,800
Speaker 1: loved the podcast was the intimacy. I would go to

1314
01:14:31,880 --> 01:14:35,280
Speaker 1: bed at night sometimes listening to my favorite podcast in

1315
01:14:35,320 --> 01:14:38,679
Speaker 1: my ear and this is gonna sound how it sounds

1316
01:14:38,720 --> 01:14:41,559
Speaker 1: like the first podcast that I ever got deeply, deeply into,

1317
01:14:41,640 --> 01:14:44,320
Speaker 1: and it's still probably my number one podcast. In rotation

1318
01:14:44,479 --> 01:14:46,880
Speaker 1: is my favorite podcast. My boy is a Yeah Dude.

1319
01:14:47,600 --> 01:14:51,639
Speaker 1: And when I got into that podcast, it was Sirka

1320
01:14:51,680 --> 01:14:54,519
Speaker 1: two thousand and eight, so like, actually, is that true? No,

1321
01:14:55,880 --> 01:14:58,439
Speaker 1: I guess twenty tens. It was around the twenty ten,

1322
01:14:58,600 --> 01:15:01,680
Speaker 1: so very early, and I had just moved to San

1323
01:15:01,720 --> 01:15:04,120
Speaker 1: Francisco for a job at a mobile phone company. I

1324
01:15:04,160 --> 01:15:06,920
Speaker 1: did not know a soul in California, and when I

1325
01:15:06,960 --> 01:15:10,120
Speaker 1: would come home from work, I didn't know anybody. And

1326
01:15:10,160 --> 01:15:13,240
Speaker 1: so if it wasn't for my favorite podcast hosts that

1327
01:15:13,240 --> 01:15:16,360
Speaker 1: I would listen to constantly in my ears, I would

1328
01:15:16,400 --> 01:15:19,400
Speaker 1: have been so alone. And those podcasts really saved me.

1329
01:15:19,439 --> 01:15:21,000
Speaker 1: It really made me feel like I was connected to

1330
01:15:21,080 --> 01:15:24,120
Speaker 1: another human. And I don't know, it's just there's something

1331
01:15:24,160 --> 01:15:28,240
Speaker 1: about the medium that just is so intimate and so

1332
01:15:28,600 --> 01:15:31,920
Speaker 1: human and makes me feel so connected and it's why

1333
01:15:32,080 --> 01:15:36,120
Speaker 1: I'm a professional podcaster today. And this idea that that

1334
01:15:36,160 --> 01:15:39,200
Speaker 1: can be outsourced by AI, that anybody would even want

1335
01:15:39,200 --> 01:15:42,160
Speaker 1: that is ludicrous to me. And this is what listeners

1336
01:15:42,160 --> 01:15:44,400
Speaker 1: are saying. I Heart did a little bit of research.

1337
01:15:44,600 --> 01:15:47,000
Speaker 1: Ninety percent of people say that they want their media

1338
01:15:47,040 --> 01:15:50,840
Speaker 1: created by real humans, even though seventy percent of people

1339
01:15:51,080 --> 01:15:54,439
Speaker 1: use AI tools themselves. Ninety two percent say that nothing

1340
01:15:54,479 --> 01:15:57,680
Speaker 1: can replace human connection, up from seventy six percent in

1341
01:15:57,760 --> 01:16:01,559
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen. And most importantly, nine and ten humans say

1342
01:16:01,560 --> 01:16:04,800
Speaker 1: that trust cannot be replicated by AI. And I think

1343
01:16:04,880 --> 01:16:08,320
Speaker 1: that's really the main thing is that when you listen

1344
01:16:08,320 --> 01:16:11,439
Speaker 1: to a podcast, you are kind of inherently creating a

1345
01:16:11,479 --> 01:16:15,760
Speaker 1: trust relationship with the listener and the host. And I

1346
01:16:15,840 --> 01:16:18,840
Speaker 1: just as indicated by the first story that we talked about,

1347
01:16:18,840 --> 01:16:23,080
Speaker 1: where chat tobt is just a untrustworthy bitu lies. You

1348
01:16:23,120 --> 01:16:25,280
Speaker 1: can't trust it, Like, why would anybody have a trust

1349
01:16:25,280 --> 01:16:26,559
Speaker 1: connection with AI?

1350
01:16:28,040 --> 01:16:30,760
Speaker 2: Yeah? I love this And like you said, nobody put

1351
01:16:30,800 --> 01:16:34,519
Speaker 2: us up to this. You and I independently like came

1352
01:16:34,560 --> 01:16:38,599
Speaker 2: across this announcement from iHeart you know. They they didn't

1353
01:16:38,600 --> 01:16:43,200
Speaker 2: call us up from corporate HQ, you know, to tell us.

1354
01:16:43,760 --> 01:16:48,920
Speaker 2: But I agree. I think it's cool that they're taking

1355
01:16:48,960 --> 01:16:54,200
Speaker 2: this stand really And yeah, like you said, people people

1356
01:16:54,280 --> 01:16:57,920
Speaker 2: don't want AI talk to them. That's not why people

1357
01:16:58,560 --> 01:17:03,519
Speaker 2: seek out whatever this is. I guess entertainment. I guess

1358
01:17:03,560 --> 01:17:07,400
Speaker 2: we're producing entertainment right now, somewhere between entertainment and journalism.

1359
01:17:07,760 --> 01:17:09,680
Speaker 1: But I like the phrase infotainment.

1360
01:17:10,360 --> 01:17:14,479
Speaker 2: Okay, we can go with that.

1361
01:17:14,760 --> 01:17:19,120
Speaker 1: Why are you like, like scotting at that infotainment?

1362
01:17:19,320 --> 01:17:20,800
Speaker 2: I don't know, is that like a real thing.

1363
01:17:21,920 --> 01:17:24,240
Speaker 1: I mean, it's entertains and informs.

1364
01:17:24,400 --> 01:17:27,440
Speaker 2: Okay, I guess that is what we do. We're infotainment.

1365
01:17:28,080 --> 01:17:34,160
Speaker 2: But importantly, we are humans where people. You know, I

1366
01:17:34,360 --> 01:17:36,479
Speaker 2: feel so lucky because I get to produce this show

1367
01:17:36,720 --> 01:17:40,880
Speaker 2: with you, and I'm just so grateful to all the

1368
01:17:40,920 --> 01:17:48,160
Speaker 2: listeners who listen to us. And it's nice to know

1369
01:17:48,240 --> 01:17:55,439
Speaker 2: that the network recognizes the value of that connection and

1370
01:17:56,920 --> 01:17:59,919
Speaker 2: is not going to try to replace us with robots.

1371
01:18:00,840 --> 01:18:04,080
Speaker 1: Yes, and when people ask me, aren't you worried about

1372
01:18:04,120 --> 01:18:08,120
Speaker 1: AI taking your job as a podcaster? Honestly, I think

1373
01:18:08,200 --> 01:18:12,679
Speaker 1: that the more AI garbage that's out there and flooding

1374
01:18:12,720 --> 01:18:15,280
Speaker 1: the space, the more of a premium there's going to

1375
01:18:15,320 --> 01:18:20,200
Speaker 1: be on actual human connection and actual human art and content.

1376
01:18:20,240 --> 01:18:23,639
Speaker 1: And so I I am like, oh, that can only

1377
01:18:24,240 --> 01:18:27,479
Speaker 1: bode well for people, for for for humans who are

1378
01:18:27,520 --> 01:18:31,000
Speaker 1: still invested and interested in telling actual human stories through

1379
01:18:31,080 --> 01:18:36,360
Speaker 1: human voices. And so yeah, thank you for everyone listening,

1380
01:18:36,400 --> 01:18:40,040
Speaker 1: for continuing to be part of like the human revolution.

1381
01:18:40,400 --> 01:18:42,720
Speaker 1: We are putting a putting a flag in the a

1382
01:18:42,760 --> 01:18:45,800
Speaker 1: flag in the ground for the humans, the human podcasters.

1383
01:18:47,280 --> 01:18:49,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, go humans.

1384
01:18:51,160 --> 01:18:54,959
Speaker 1: Well, Mike, thank you for being here. Where can humans

1385
01:18:55,000 --> 01:18:57,559
Speaker 1: connect with the human us? Humans? Where can we have

1386
01:18:57,600 --> 01:19:02,080
Speaker 1: a little human to human? Uh, this metaphor is getting

1387
01:19:02,080 --> 01:19:03,479
Speaker 1: away from me, you know what I'm trying to say.

1388
01:19:04,040 --> 01:19:08,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, humans can connect with us by sending an email

1389
01:19:08,800 --> 01:19:14,680
Speaker 2: to helloatangoty dot com. They can leave a comment on Spotify.

1390
01:19:14,840 --> 01:19:19,280
Speaker 2: They can follow our social media accounts on Instagram, they

1391
01:19:19,280 --> 01:19:24,679
Speaker 2: can follow Bridget Marie in DC, same handle on TikTok

1392
01:19:24,720 --> 01:19:28,040
Speaker 2: Bridget Marie in DC, and on YouTube. We can be

1393
01:19:28,080 --> 01:19:31,879
Speaker 2: found under there are no girls on the Internet.

1394
01:19:32,800 --> 01:19:36,120
Speaker 1: Also, you're now running our blue Sky account.

1395
01:19:36,560 --> 01:19:39,400
Speaker 2: That's right, we have a blue Sky account. The name

1396
01:19:39,560 --> 01:19:42,519
Speaker 2: is there are no girls on the internet easy to find.

1397
01:19:43,160 --> 01:19:45,720
Speaker 2: We don't post all the time, but send us a

1398
01:19:45,720 --> 01:19:48,040
Speaker 2: message and I promise we will write back to you.

1399
01:19:48,680 --> 01:19:50,000
Speaker 2: That would be great. I would love that.

1400
01:19:55,439 --> 01:19:57,400
Speaker 1: Got a story about an interesting thing in tech? I

1401
01:19:57,560 --> 01:19:59,360
Speaker 1: just want to say hi. You can read us at

1402
01:19:59,400 --> 01:20:02,519
Speaker 1: Hello at ten. You can also find transcripts for today's

1403
01:20:02,520 --> 01:20:04,960
Speaker 1: episode at tegodi dot com. There Are No Girls on

1404
01:20:05,000 --> 01:20:07,320
Speaker 1: the Internet was created by me Bridget Tod. It's a

1405
01:20:07,360 --> 01:20:10,720
Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio, an unbossed creative. Jonathan Strickland is our

1406
01:20:10,720 --> 01:20:14,080
Speaker 1: executive producer. Tarry Harrison is our producer and sound engineer.

1407
01:20:14,439 --> 01:20:17,639
Speaker 1: Michael Almato is our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Todd.

1408
01:20:18,600 --> 01:20:20,600
Speaker 1: If you want to help us grow, rate and review.

1409
01:20:20,360 --> 01:20:21,520
Speaker 3: Us on Apple Podcasts.

1410
01:20:22,160 --> 01:20:25,000
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app,

1411
01:20:25,040 --> 01:20:27,080
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.