Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news joining.
Speaker 2: Us now to talk about this ETF. I'm thrilled to
Speaker 2: say we have Anthony Scaramucci. He is the founder of
Speaker 2: Skybridge Capital, joining us on set. Great to see you
Speaker 2: in person.
Speaker 3: I mean it's Eric.
Speaker 4: I mean that I was almost as good as my
Speaker 4: mother writing the thing.
Speaker 3: I mean that was really good.
Speaker 2: He does his homework and we have a lot of
Speaker 2: questions for you about the crypto industry at large, but
Speaker 2: we are going to start with this product because, as
Speaker 2: Eric described it, this is sort of a thematic crypto
Speaker 2: ETF that tracks equities. And you do have a lot
Speaker 2: of these sort of products out there that say that
Speaker 2: they track the digital asset ecosystem and that are also
Speaker 2: actively managed. So how do you differentiate this product from
Speaker 2: the rest of the field.
Speaker 4: Well, first all, thank you guys for having me and
Speaker 4: I appreciate being here. I would just say to you
Speaker 4: that this was born from a non bitcoin exchange traded
Speaker 4: fund world.
Speaker 3: So I remember this is four years ago.
Speaker 4: I'm trying to get our clients access to something that
Speaker 4: correlate with bitcoin. I would make the case that there
Speaker 4: are still clients out there, particularly at these wirehouses that
Speaker 4: are having a hard time getting approval on bitcoin still
Speaker 4: to this day. And so the case for this is
Speaker 4: this is a good surrogate. If you want to be
Speaker 4: in bitcoin, certainly go out and buy bitcoin. If you
Speaker 4: can buy the bitcoin shares, whether it's the Fidelity ones
Speaker 4: or Galaxy Invesco or the black Rock one certainly would
Speaker 4: recommend that. But if you can't do that, and you
Speaker 4: want some exposure to the ecosystem, and you want some
Speaker 4: exposure to great companies inside the ecosystem, I think we
Speaker 4: have the best story to tell and arguably the best performance,
Speaker 4: if you don't mind me saying that, Just based on
Speaker 4: the metrics that Bloomberg is showing and looking at.
Speaker 5: The holdings, you have two US companies as the biggest
Speaker 5: holdings of micro Strategy and coin Base. But then you've
Speaker 5: got Galaxy Digital, which is listening in Toronto, and Metaplanet,
Speaker 5: which trades in Japan, so you now have currency exposure
Speaker 5: as well.
Speaker 4: Why go this route, Well, because again the Metaplanet is
Speaker 4: sort of a pure play in bitcoin, and so even
Speaker 4: though we have modestncy explosure, we like that. I guess
Speaker 4: if you look at that list, I think the thing
Speaker 4: that our investment managers are saying, it's Skybridge, what's going
Speaker 4: to get us the most correlation to bitcoin without taking
Speaker 4: on too much exogenous risk. So the currency and the
Speaker 4: sizing of that is not overly consequential to us as
Speaker 4: it release to Galaxy. I think, you know this, Galaxy
Speaker 4: is about to list on the NASDAC and so I
Speaker 4: think that'll be helpful there. But we're big fans of
Speaker 4: Mike Novograt's work with Mike at Goldman thirty years ago
Speaker 4: and like that company overall. So the brokerage component of
Speaker 4: this I think does help Coinbase and Galaxy or companies
Speaker 4: that we think are highway systems in the world of
Speaker 4: digital assets. So it's not just a pure play on
Speaker 4: the assets themselves. You're getting a little pickup on the infrastructure.
Speaker 1: Let's talk a little bit about like the future and
Speaker 1: where Bitcoin's going. I was on stage with Robbie Michnick
Speaker 1: in Dubai. He said when the decoupling happened that day
Speaker 1: where bitcoin went up and the stocks went down, there was.
Speaker 3: A couple like that was major.
Speaker 1: He got calls from some big fish and they were like,
Speaker 1: finally it's acting like gold. How important is bitcoin to
Speaker 1: behave a little better and not be a high beta
Speaker 1: stock for it to really take go to the next
Speaker 1: level with corporations, governments, and institutions.
Speaker 3: Well, I think that's it. Eric.
Speaker 4: Ultimately, what we see is the evolution of bitcoin from
Speaker 4: being sort of a tech asset tied to the mag
Speaker 4: seven or tied to the Nasdaq, to something that's more akin.
Speaker 3: To digital gold.
Speaker 4: And as that starts to happen, and I think that
Speaker 4: will happen as wallets expand you know, let's say there's
Speaker 4: roughly three hundred million or so wallets or bitcoin right now.
Speaker 4: Imagine a world where there's a billion wallets, billion holders.
Speaker 3: The volatility should dampen.
Speaker 4: That happened in Microsoft, that happened in things like Google
Speaker 4: over a twenty year period of time, and so you
Speaker 4: could see a scenario where more wallets, lots of institutions
Speaker 4: in the mix, long term holders, dampening volatility, and then
Speaker 4: you have this positive flywheel where the volatility is dampened
Speaker 4: by long term holders who are owning it in size,
Speaker 4: and so therefore that reinforces.
Speaker 3: The idea that other long term holders should come in.
Speaker 4: I guess the big thing you have to ask yourself
Speaker 4: is bitcoin an investment or is it an asset class.
Speaker 4: If it's an investment, then one to three trillion dollars,
Speaker 4: that sort of makes sense.
Speaker 3: That's akin to a.
Speaker 4: Mag seven market capitalization. But if it's an asset class,
Speaker 4: then it should trade too closer to where gold is,
Speaker 4: and I think goals I don't know twenty two to
Speaker 4: twenty three trillion dollars right now.
Speaker 2: I do want to bring in politics and regulation to
Speaker 2: this conversation because there's stable coin legislation working its way
Speaker 2: through Congress right now, and I want to hear your
Speaker 2: thoughts on why that potentially is important and whether or
Speaker 2: not that should include restrictions on the Trump family and
Speaker 2: the administration broadly.
Speaker 4: Well, I don't know if you can restrict one family,
Speaker 4: and so I don't know what the laws are even
Speaker 4: if that's allowable in the constant. But I just I
Speaker 4: think what we have to do is we've got to
Speaker 4: get stable coined legislation through because it'll help the digital
Speaker 4: assets space, it'll help the United States maintain its mantle
Speaker 4: of financial leadership financial services leadership. But I think the
Speaker 4: other thing these stable coins do it just reminder to people,
Speaker 4: whether it's circle or tether, they own a ton of
Speaker 4: US treasuries. I think tether now owns more US treasuries
Speaker 4: than Germany and Japan, and I think we want to
Speaker 4: have this legislation provide great clarity regulatory specificity, so that.
Speaker 3: We've got a lot of players in the mix.
Speaker 4: Eventually banks can get into the mix, and eventually I
Speaker 4: could hold my bitcoin at a bank. As it relates
Speaker 4: to the Trump family, I guess what I would say.
Speaker 4: My message to the Trump family would be, you know,
Speaker 4: be transparent.
Speaker 3: You know, if you're not doing anything wrong.
Speaker 4: I'll accept on faith that you're not doing anything wrong,
Speaker 4: but be transparent because we're in a partisan, tribal environment
Speaker 4: and you've got to let people know exactly what you're doing.
Speaker 4: Otherwise people are going to assume the worst.
Speaker 5: A lot of people, some in the industry, who are
Speaker 5: concerned that the First family's involvement in crypto is a
Speaker 5: way to just make money. What is your level of
Speaker 5: confidence that this administration, both at the executive and regulatory level,
Speaker 5: is serious about supporting the build out of the US
Speaker 5: crypto industry.
Speaker 3: Well, I think it's very serious.
Speaker 4: I think this is the thing that a lot of
Speaker 4: the what we call the crypto bros.
Speaker 3: If you will.
Speaker 4: There's probably women in there, but let's call them crypto bros.
Speaker 4: I think they moved into fair Shake and they gave
Speaker 4: a lot of money to Republicans or some Democrats that
Speaker 4: are supportive, and I think in the beginning I would
Speaker 4: say it was skeptical and probably politically driven. But I
Speaker 4: think as people learn the story, they recognize that this
Speaker 4: is going to be a large component of the future
Speaker 4: of finance, and so I do think it's serious today.
Speaker 4: Was it serious in July of last year when they
Speaker 4: spoke at the Bitcoin conference? Probably not. It was probably political,
Speaker 4: But I think it's serious today.
Speaker 1: Okay, forty five seconds. You obviously are into bitcoin and
Speaker 1: of the all coins excite you. We're going to see
Speaker 1: ets for XRP, salona Ether.
Speaker 3: People can have a lot of choice. What do you
Speaker 3: think about it?
Speaker 4: Well, I would I would I would focus on Solana
Speaker 4: for right now because you have an ETF out there.
Speaker 3: It's soul Q so O l Q.
Speaker 4: Those guys at three IQ were the first to launch
Speaker 4: a bitcoin ETF in North America, the first Canadian ETF.
Speaker 3: We own a lot of Solana.
Speaker 4: Just full disclosure, uh, but and we are and again
Speaker 4: full disclosure. We at Skybridge are investors in sol Q
Speaker 4: because we like that exposure. We also like the staking
Speaker 4: component to Solana, which you think is very good.
Speaker 3: So it's just a great way to get in there.
Speaker 3: Those other ones are going to.
Speaker 4: Be good Avalanche, Polka Dot, et cetera, but Solana.
Speaker 2: All right, gotta leave it there. Really appreciate you taking
Speaker 2: the time. That is Anthony's Cherimuci of Skybridge cap Well.
Speaker 2: You can read about this drill down plus the latest
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Speaker 2: is Bloomberg