WEBVTT - From a Ph.D. in Physics to High Heels and Glitter

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<v Speaker 1>There's this feeling right when you do it, it feels

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<v Speaker 1>like you're almost about to fall, but then you don't,

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<v Speaker 1>and you can just feel the momentum carrying you around,

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<v Speaker 1>like being a little kid on the playground when you

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<v Speaker 1>just like throw yourself at like the jungle gym and

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<v Speaker 1>go like we are out of the circle. So it's

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<v Speaker 1>kind of that feeling um, but a little more controlled. Ah,

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to another Ausy Confidential. I'm your host, Eugene S. Robinson,

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<v Speaker 1>and today we got something special. We got Renee. Now.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, stories come to us a lot of different ways.

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<v Speaker 1>I love how this came to me via somebody else

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<v Speaker 1>who said, Hey, at Microsoft, I was working with this

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<v Speaker 1>genius engineer. One day she stood up at a meeting

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<v Speaker 1>and said, fuck this, I'm leaving become an to National Proofs.

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<v Speaker 1>Sexy is something that is like everybody has a vision

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<v Speaker 1>in their head of what sexy means to them, and

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<v Speaker 1>there might be overlapping pieces amongst different people's definitions, but

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<v Speaker 1>there's also many differences. And I think sexy as a

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<v Speaker 1>as a feeling, as like a theme as a concept

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<v Speaker 1>is very very vague, and it's very big, and it

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<v Speaker 1>can be many different things. So, yeah, I was working

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<v Speaker 1>at Microsoft for a bit and I was pretending to

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<v Speaker 1>be an engineer. So but what would you would you degree?

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<v Speaker 1>I got my degree in physics, so I was um.

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<v Speaker 1>I got my undergrad in physics, and then I have

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<v Speaker 1>a master's technically and applied physics. I had started a

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<v Speaker 1>PhD program, and then I quit the PhD program because

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<v Speaker 1>at Stanford. So uh, bachelor's at cal Tech and then

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<v Speaker 1>PhD ended up as a master's at Stanford, which is

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<v Speaker 1>how I ended up in this area in the first place.

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<v Speaker 1>Is why I moved here. Where'd you go to high school?

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<v Speaker 1>Hong Kong? So I grew up in Hong Kong. Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>I went to one of those international schools. So it's

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<v Speaker 1>like they took an American school and transplanted it into

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<v Speaker 1>Hong Kong. And so I was there from kindergarten all

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<v Speaker 1>the way through high school. Which is why I speak

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<v Speaker 1>English as as an American, because I was surrounded by

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<v Speaker 1>a whole bunch of expats. But you also speak So

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<v Speaker 1>I speak Man's are In because my families from Taiwan,

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<v Speaker 1>and so we spoke Man's are In at home. And

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<v Speaker 1>then I picked up Cantonese from just living in Hong

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<v Speaker 1>Kong for seniors. I was good at math and science

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<v Speaker 1>growing up, and so I assumed that I like it

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<v Speaker 1>because no, when you're little, you like the things you're

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<v Speaker 1>good at, and you never stopped to think about why

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<v Speaker 1>you like it. You're just like, I'm good at it,

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<v Speaker 1>therefore I must like it. That just carried me all

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<v Speaker 1>the way through until you know, you're one of grad

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<v Speaker 1>school when I realized, wait, I don't like and I

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<v Speaker 1>realized that ass like quick, don't miss it. I started

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<v Speaker 1>teaching pole around when I started working at Microsoft, because

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<v Speaker 1>my two jobs picked up at the same time, and

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<v Speaker 1>so at the time I quit Microsoft, I've been teaching

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<v Speaker 1>for a while, but that was still when I had

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<v Speaker 1>no real uh plan to have poled b my like

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<v Speaker 1>actual job. Like Pole was still just a hobby. It

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<v Speaker 1>was a hobby that like, you know, I got paid

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<v Speaker 1>to teach other people. How did you get into that? Um?

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<v Speaker 1>So I tried pole because I was at Stanford and

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<v Speaker 1>looking for some form of dance to do because I've

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<v Speaker 1>always been a dancer, and so when I googled what

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<v Speaker 1>you did l sports? Yeah, so I did dancing gymnastics

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<v Speaker 1>basically from the ages of like six onwards, all the

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<v Speaker 1>way through the end of high school. UM So, I've

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<v Speaker 1>always been dancing and I kept dancing all the way

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<v Speaker 1>through college. And so when they moved up here for Stanford, so, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>I need to find myself a dance studio. When I

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<v Speaker 1>googled dance studios near Stanford, UM, potential popped up, and

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<v Speaker 1>because because it is one of the few places with

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<v Speaker 1>adult classes that is within like a half hour raised

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<v Speaker 1>to Stanford. And so I was like, I've never done

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<v Speaker 1>hole before, but I was like, why not, I'll try

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<v Speaker 1>it came, I loved it from like the very first seconds,

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<v Speaker 1>and I just never left. But yeah, So I was

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<v Speaker 1>at Microsoft UM and then I decided that I don't

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<v Speaker 1>want to be an engineer anymore because I was looking

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<v Speaker 1>at my peers and they all were excited about science.

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<v Speaker 1>They were excited about the research they were doing, come

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<v Speaker 1>up with new ideas, and like the actual day to

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<v Speaker 1>day process of it. And I was just like, wow,

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<v Speaker 1>I am not like you guys. And so so that

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<v Speaker 1>when you left this create with your parents cool whatever,

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<v Speaker 1>or did you or did you already have a job

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<v Speaker 1>lined up in UM? So when I left UM, I

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<v Speaker 1>was totally excit see my parents to freak out, because

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, of course they would they go to people

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<v Speaker 1>Asian parent, right. They were totally cool with it. It

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<v Speaker 1>was baffling, actually, I was like, wait, you guys are

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<v Speaker 1>so okay right now? Were they cool because you already

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<v Speaker 1>had the job? No? I had no job. So that

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<v Speaker 1>goes into this funny thing is not from the US, right.

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<v Speaker 1>I was born in Taiwan, I was raised elsewhere, and

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<v Speaker 1>so it only came to college so I was on

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<v Speaker 1>the student visa. And so then that brought up the

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<v Speaker 1>other part of if I quit school by by student visa,

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<v Speaker 1>I need a way to stay in this country. So

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<v Speaker 1>I had been together with uh then boyfriend now husbands

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<v Speaker 1>for a couple years now, and like we had already

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<v Speaker 1>planned on getting married. It was just kind of like, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>so I know we were going to get married like

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<v Speaker 1>four years later, but how haven't we do this now?

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<v Speaker 1>What about we get married like right now instead of

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<v Speaker 1>four years later in this country? I was, yeah, I

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<v Speaker 1>was honestly a little bit surprised. I was definitely um

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<v Speaker 1>expecting some kind of resistance or some questioning of like

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<v Speaker 1>are you sure this is a good idea? But they

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<v Speaker 1>have been nothing but super supportive the whole way. And um,

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<v Speaker 1>I think what they tell me is that they see

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<v Speaker 1>how much happier I am now versus like when I

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<v Speaker 1>was in grad school, when I was working at Microsoft,

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<v Speaker 1>and so seeing that helps reassure about that, like I

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<v Speaker 1>definitely made the right choice, because they're like, yeah, you're

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<v Speaker 1>you're a different person. You're a much happier person and

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<v Speaker 1>this is a good thing. And so like, even though

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<v Speaker 1>you are now doing something that's very different than what

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<v Speaker 1>we all expected, like this is good. So the first

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<v Speaker 1>move that I was ever taught how to do is

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<v Speaker 1>called a roundabout or a zip spin. It's still my

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<v Speaker 1>favorite move. And so what we start almost all beginners with,

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<v Speaker 1>you just like hold onto the pole and you like

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<v Speaker 1>make a little circle around. I don't want one hand

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<v Speaker 1>on the one hand on the pole, one foot on

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<v Speaker 1>the floor, so you're not even in the area, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>and you just like rotates big circle around the pole

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<v Speaker 1>and you can just feel the momentum carrying you around,

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<v Speaker 1>and that feeling is just it's so much fun. And

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<v Speaker 1>there's something about it that just like really clicked and

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<v Speaker 1>like resonated within me where I just felt like this

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<v Speaker 1>is what I want to do, and then you know,

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<v Speaker 1>it turned out that I was like reasonably good at it,

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<v Speaker 1>and so I was like, now' here, I've never been

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<v Speaker 1>shy about my body. Um. Again, somehow, lucky enough, I

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<v Speaker 1>didn't really grow up with those body of his issues. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>And I think that is because good parenting. I think

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<v Speaker 1>great coaches, because my gymnastics coaches. There are a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of gymnastic coaches who really push people on, a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of ballet teachers right who really pushed their students of

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<v Speaker 1>like you're too fat, you need to be thin. There.

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<v Speaker 1>I was lucky that I had amazing teachers and coaches

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<v Speaker 1>who didn't like put any of that on us when

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<v Speaker 1>we were kids and in staid, the focus was always

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<v Speaker 1>on like what you can do, just what we tell

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<v Speaker 1>people here and that right, you focus on what your

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<v Speaker 1>body can do instead of what it looks like. And

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<v Speaker 1>I guess I've just been lucky that I've always grown

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<v Speaker 1>up with that idea, and so to me, it's never

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<v Speaker 1>been a big deal. So like when I started to

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<v Speaker 1>pull too, and you'll see this, when people first started, Paul,

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<v Speaker 1>They'll start with like clothes and the first time you

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<v Speaker 1>tell them like you gotta take those pants off. They're

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<v Speaker 1>kind of like are you sure, or like the first

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<v Speaker 1>time you like you have to get rid of the shirt,

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<v Speaker 1>are you sure? Even some of our other instructors they'll

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<v Speaker 1>tell you like the first time they went to the poll,

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<v Speaker 1>they're like, oh, no, I'm keeping all my clothes on,

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<v Speaker 1>and now they're like everything right. Um. But like when

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<v Speaker 1>I first started, like that wasn't like a hang up

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<v Speaker 1>for me. It was just like I was like, Oh,

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<v Speaker 1>it's functional, therefore I will do it. And so I

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<v Speaker 1>think like when it goes on stage, as long as

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<v Speaker 1>it's functional, Like if nudity is important to the performance

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<v Speaker 1>of doing, it's gotta do it. This is what it's

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<v Speaker 1>going to have to be. So unless you think that

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<v Speaker 1>what happens at these competitions is very much what happens

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<v Speaker 1>at the strip club, you're wrong. It's not. These things

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<v Speaker 1>take a better part of a day and they have

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<v Speaker 1>uh polls that are kind of opinioned to the floor,

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<v Speaker 1>huge stage, and a judging panel that's as unforgiving as

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<v Speaker 1>any judging panel ever. And these are moves that a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of times if you're on a sixteen ft pole

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<v Speaker 1>or sixty ft up high off the ground on a pole.

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<v Speaker 1>There's only one part of your body touching the pole,

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<v Speaker 1>preventing you from plunging to your death below. So it

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<v Speaker 1>is not without its risk, but to win you have

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<v Speaker 1>to be a combination of skillful, strong, graceful, all while

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<v Speaker 1>making it look slick as snot. Some expressions of sexy

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<v Speaker 1>are easier to learn than others, and I think this

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<v Speaker 1>is well in terms of like um movements and like

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<v Speaker 1>what movements convey as sexy. Some move are easier to

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<v Speaker 1>learn on the body, like for somebody who is new

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<v Speaker 1>to dance to some form of like physical expression, Certain

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<v Speaker 1>styles of movement will be easier for a beginner to

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<v Speaker 1>pick up than other styles to me at least, And

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<v Speaker 1>this is just like my interpretation of it. Sexy stems

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<v Speaker 1>from confidence, and so it can be fast, it can

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<v Speaker 1>be slow, it can be aggressive, it can be shy,

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<v Speaker 1>but there's this underlying confidence and like um, the sense

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<v Speaker 1>of contentment with yourself and like your own energy, and

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<v Speaker 1>it's that when it's transmitted outwards that gets read as sexy.

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<v Speaker 1>At Friday for a play the unofficial model of Friday

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<v Speaker 1>four play right, someone somewhere finds it sexy no matter

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<v Speaker 1>what you do someone somewhere find the sexy. There are

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<v Speaker 1>some people who very much do truly believe, like in

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<v Speaker 1>their own mind, that what they do has nothing to

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<v Speaker 1>do with dripping, nothing to do with trip clubs. To me,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm glad to see that it seems like that's getting

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<v Speaker 1>slightly less common. Those people still exist. There are still

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<v Speaker 1>people out there, and I think that is like in

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<v Speaker 1>response or in reaction to the social stigma that's out there,

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<v Speaker 1>because even here where most people are pretty chill with it, right, like, um,

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<v Speaker 1>I worked at Microsoft, and nobody ever like questions the

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<v Speaker 1>fact that I did both they all knew and how

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<v Speaker 1>some of them had looked at my videos, and nobody

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<v Speaker 1>like look down on me for it, Like nobody like

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<v Speaker 1>made any remarks about it. Because in the Bay Area

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<v Speaker 1>we're pretty lucky. People are pretty calm about this stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>But even here we have some students who worry about,

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<v Speaker 1>like what do I tell my friends? What do I

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<v Speaker 1>tell my family? Because they will tell their family and

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<v Speaker 1>their families not happy, their family is not okay with it,

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<v Speaker 1>and they go like, I can't believe you do that,

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<v Speaker 1>and so I can okay. So the use of the

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<v Speaker 1>word that what do they mean, what do you think

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<v Speaker 1>they mean when they see I think for those people

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<v Speaker 1>who have that impression, I think it is because they

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<v Speaker 1>they only have um this mental image of Poll in

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<v Speaker 1>relation to sex work and stripping, and because they maybe

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<v Speaker 1>haven't had very many interactions with sex workers of any form,

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<v Speaker 1>They've made up this image in their head of what

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<v Speaker 1>that seems to be to them. And unfortunately, is the

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<v Speaker 1>case with most things, if you're just making up something

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<v Speaker 1>in your head, you tend to assume the worst. I think.

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<v Speaker 1>I think probably one of the most damaging things to

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<v Speaker 1>the sport or to the endeavor had to be Chris Rock.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you remember his routine where he was talking about

0:12:36.880 --> 0:12:40.400
<v Speaker 1>contemplating being a parent and making the right parental choices,

0:12:40.840 --> 0:12:43.800
<v Speaker 1>and he goes, you know, any choice that keeps your

0:12:43.880 --> 0:12:48.360
<v Speaker 1>daughter off the pole. It's things like that, right that

0:12:48.480 --> 0:12:50.880
<v Speaker 1>like feed into that impression where if you don't know,

0:12:50.960 --> 0:12:53.440
<v Speaker 1>if if that's your only context by which you've ever

0:12:53.480 --> 0:12:56.319
<v Speaker 1>heard of poll, then of course do you associate negatively

0:12:56.360 --> 0:12:58.240
<v Speaker 1>with it because you have no reason not to. Do

0:12:58.320 --> 0:13:01.920
<v Speaker 1>you think that this in general has improve the quality

0:13:01.960 --> 0:13:05.400
<v Speaker 1>of of poll? There's just in strip clubs. In other words,

0:13:05.400 --> 0:13:07.880
<v Speaker 1>do you is it is it is it neither fish

0:13:07.920 --> 0:13:10.719
<v Speaker 1>nor foul thing? Do you find I'm wondering, like, how

0:13:10.720 --> 0:13:13.960
<v Speaker 1>many people who actually do it pull start strip clubs?

0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:15.520
<v Speaker 1>A lot of the moves that we take for granted

0:13:15.600 --> 0:13:19.280
<v Speaker 1>now we're made up by strippers who were just you know,

0:13:19.520 --> 0:13:22.120
<v Speaker 1>at work doing their own thing, and they made up

0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:24.200
<v Speaker 1>these things and they spread and then you know, now

0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:28.040
<v Speaker 1>we officially teach them. But now it's got it's got

0:13:28.080 --> 0:13:29.760
<v Speaker 1>to the point where people are not talking about it.

0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:31.560
<v Speaker 1>And they do this with new sports. A lot of

0:13:31.559 --> 0:13:33.840
<v Speaker 1>times they talk about, well, should we get in the Olympics,

0:13:34.120 --> 0:13:36.760
<v Speaker 1>Try to get in the Olympics. And I'm feeling that

0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:40.160
<v Speaker 1>there's this kind of you know, push to legitimize it.

0:13:40.240 --> 0:13:44.679
<v Speaker 1>There there is another push inside the community to like

0:13:45.200 --> 0:13:48.840
<v Speaker 1>separate it from the strip club routes, right to say, yeah, yeah,

0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:51.440
<v Speaker 1>you know, it's it was a strip club thing, but

0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:55.120
<v Speaker 1>it's not, you know, there's no and it feels to

0:13:55.120 --> 0:13:59.680
<v Speaker 1>me like the truth is somewhere in the middle. So

0:13:59.800 --> 0:14:02.360
<v Speaker 1>much happening now. There's so many people who do poll

0:14:02.440 --> 0:14:04.880
<v Speaker 1>now that like how many, Oh, I have no idea.

0:14:04.960 --> 0:14:06.880
<v Speaker 1>You'll hear a lot of people say like this is

0:14:06.920 --> 0:14:09.880
<v Speaker 1>their therapy, but like what they're seeking therapy from. I

0:14:09.880 --> 0:14:12.080
<v Speaker 1>think that is where it differs in person to person,

0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:14.280
<v Speaker 1>and for me at least that is part of why,

0:14:14.440 --> 0:14:16.040
<v Speaker 1>like a big part of this for me is bustering

0:14:16.080 --> 0:14:19.160
<v Speaker 1>the kind of community that encourages that, because this is

0:14:19.200 --> 0:14:21.200
<v Speaker 1>that like safe happy space you can go to where

0:14:21.240 --> 0:14:22.960
<v Speaker 1>you can learn to feel good about yourself. You can

0:14:23.000 --> 0:14:25.320
<v Speaker 1>learn to feel proud about yourself and be okay with

0:14:25.360 --> 0:14:28.920
<v Speaker 1>that and not feel ashamed of like yourself, your body,

0:14:29.040 --> 0:14:31.360
<v Speaker 1>your abilities, Like you don't have to try to hide

0:14:31.400 --> 0:14:33.120
<v Speaker 1>and pretend that you're not as good as you are.

0:14:33.240 --> 0:14:35.920
<v Speaker 1>You don't have to try to fake humility. I Here

0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:39.200
<v Speaker 1>we encourage people to be really confidence and be like, yes,

0:14:39.280 --> 0:14:41.760
<v Speaker 1>I know I am good, I know I am great,

0:14:41.800 --> 0:14:44.160
<v Speaker 1>I know I'm beautiful, I know I am strong, and

0:14:44.240 --> 0:14:46.400
<v Speaker 1>to be okay with that, because that's not something that

0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:51.320
<v Speaker 1>women especially get a lot. There's a higher chance that

0:14:51.360 --> 0:14:52.520
<v Speaker 1>like a lot of times, you know, when I meet

0:14:52.520 --> 0:14:54.680
<v Speaker 1>somebody new, when they asked what I do UM and

0:14:54.680 --> 0:14:56.280
<v Speaker 1>I told them I own the pole an aerial studio,

0:14:56.360 --> 0:14:58.360
<v Speaker 1>they go, oh, yeah, I've heard of that, or I've

0:14:58.440 --> 0:15:00.680
<v Speaker 1>seen that, or it's like oh I thought about maybe

0:15:00.680 --> 0:15:02.760
<v Speaker 1>trying it, or I know somebody who has tried it,

0:15:03.080 --> 0:15:07.080
<v Speaker 1>And it's always easier when there's just more general awareness

0:15:07.080 --> 0:15:09.480
<v Speaker 1>of what it is that you do right. And so,

0:15:09.520 --> 0:15:12.840
<v Speaker 1>for sure, ten years ago, very different story would have

0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:15.800
<v Speaker 1>been much harder than than it is now. Do do

0:15:15.800 --> 0:15:26.800
<v Speaker 1>you do you miss physics? Now? Now? Next up next week.

0:15:27.840 --> 0:15:32.720
<v Speaker 1>Javiermendous What yeah, look, he is like the Bill Belichick

0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:36.200
<v Speaker 1>of m m A Mixed Martial Arts. It runs a

0:15:36.240 --> 0:15:40.120
<v Speaker 1>place called a K a American Kickboxing Academy. The winning

0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:44.040
<v Speaker 1>ist fight Jim like in the world and uh, we're

0:15:44.040 --> 0:15:45.960
<v Speaker 1>excited to get kick to him. You want to hear me?

0:15:46.080 --> 0:15:59.680
<v Speaker 1>Fanboy out next week. Ozzie Confidential. Ozzie Confidential is produced

0:15:59.800 --> 0:16:04.560
<v Speaker 1>by who Else May Eugene S. Robinson, an executive produced

0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:09.560
<v Speaker 1>by Robert Coolos, and this episode was sound designed, edited

0:16:10.000 --> 0:16:15.720
<v Speaker 1>and mixed by Nick Johnson. For more Ozzy Confidential, check

0:16:15.800 --> 0:16:18.720
<v Speaker 1>us out on azzi dot com. That's o z y

0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:22.040
<v Speaker 1>dot com slash Confidential