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Speaker 1: Too Much Information is a production of iHeartRadio. Hello everyone,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to another episode of Too Much Information, the

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Speaker 1: show that gives you the secret histories and little known

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Speaker 1: facts behind your favorite movies, music, TV shows and more.

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Speaker 1: We are your Titans of Trivia. You're free wheeling friends

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Speaker 1: of facts. My name is Jordan run.

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Speaker 2: Tagg and I'm Alex Heigel.

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Speaker 1: And folks, this is a very special episode of TMI.

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Speaker 1: Today we're set to embark on a grand experiment. It's

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Speaker 1: been something we've joked about for a long time, but

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Speaker 1: the more we thought about it, the more we were

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Speaker 1: inspired by its boldness. Now, as you probably know, we

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Speaker 1: pride ourselves on our exhaustively written and researched and researched

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Speaker 1: outlines and are rigided here in the structure. But today

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Speaker 1: we're going out there without a safety net. They said

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Speaker 1: it couldn't be done, but if you're hearing this now,

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Speaker 1: that means we've actually this off. Ladies and gentlemen, friends,

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Speaker 1: Welcome to TMI. Oops, all digressions.

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Speaker 2: You crazy sound of a bitch. You really did it.

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Speaker 2: We're fine like doing it. We've been planning this title

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Speaker 2: based on that soule joke for like two years.

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Speaker 1: I never really thought about it unless it was like

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Speaker 1: a clip show of like going through old stuff I

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Speaker 1: edited out of prior episodes, but most of that stuff

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Speaker 1: was just offensive impersonations and you being angry. I'm so angry,

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Speaker 1: and this episode will have fat and so much more.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll be angry and defensive and maybe just a

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Speaker 2: little sad. Jordan, How's this going to work? I, as

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Speaker 2: a committed too much information listener with one hand on

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Speaker 2: the one star rating on Apple Podcasts, I'm very concerned.

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Speaker 2: How's this's gonna work? Again?

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Speaker 1: Folks, We are feeling this out as we go along,

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Speaker 1: but the idea is very simple.

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Speaker 2: At least I hope it is.

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Speaker 1: Because we have not discussed any of this in any

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Speaker 1: meaningful way. Heigel and I have each pulled a series

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Speaker 1: of pop cultural anecdotes that we will then share with

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Speaker 1: one another. Neither of us know what the other one's

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Speaker 1: gonna say, so we're gonna react in real time and

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Speaker 1: see what other stories these provoke from our hoarder's basement

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Speaker 1: of our respective minds. It's riffin, at least in my case.

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Speaker 1: I've chosen anecdotes that I think will surprise and delight

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Speaker 1: or at very least shock my dear friend Alex Heigel. Well,

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Speaker 1: shall we begin?

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Speaker 2: I believe we shall.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I got, as I usually do. I kind of

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Speaker 1: took it a little too far.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I know. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: It's almost like how when we did the quiz game,

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Speaker 1: the Stump the Buff episodes. Yes, I kind of had categories.

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Speaker 1: I sort of had anecdotes that lead into one another

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Speaker 1: for like little batches. So I've got like like maybe

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Speaker 1: like four or five on here, so we'll see. But

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Speaker 1: interrupt me at anytime. I used to do a podcast

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Speaker 1: where I was always discouraged from going off on tangents.

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Speaker 1: That's the opposite of the idea here. Any stories that

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Speaker 1: come to mind that these remind you of, just just gods.

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Speaker 2: Let it all out. It'll be my problem to deal

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Speaker 2: with in the edit. I'm getting I'm getting into my

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Speaker 2: flow state. Okay, here we go. I have gin No,

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Speaker 2: I don't this is.

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Speaker 1: Gonna be I think really fun. I think you're really

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Speaker 1: gonna like this.

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Speaker 2: I feel like this is what the like the serial

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Speaker 2: Killer says like right before you know. I think you're

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Speaker 2: really going to enjoy this. Jeffrey Dahmer talking about Exorcist

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Speaker 2: three to a young Filipino boy, Save it, save it. Okay, Okay,

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Speaker 2: I'll sit on that. Well, that's also what Jeffrey Dahmer said.

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Speaker 1: Oh wow, wow, Okay, I hope, I hope we were

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Speaker 1: rolling on this.

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Speaker 2: Oh Baby, I sure was, Jimmy, you get that. Welcome

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Speaker 2: to t m I at Night, unchained at the end

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Speaker 2: of their ropes, good men with nothing to lose.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to start with something you mentioned on a

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Speaker 1: previous episode.

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Speaker 2: Hit me, whatever happened to Baby Jane? Oh? A classic?

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Speaker 1: A classic.

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Speaker 2: Maybe we should do a full episode on that, but

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Speaker 2: well I think we should. I mean, did you know

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Speaker 2: that they coined an entire subgenre of horror.

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Speaker 1: After this bad I didn't know. Tell me about that.

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Speaker 2: It's called hag exploitation. I'm not making it up. I'm

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Speaker 2: not making it up. Yeah, I mean, so for whoever

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Speaker 2: doesn't know whatever Happened to Baby Jane? It is a

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Speaker 2: groundbreaking horror, psychological horror suspense. Like I don't really know

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Speaker 2: what the original film was kind of filed under.

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Speaker 1: But well probably I don't think it was ended as

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Speaker 1: like a horror movie.

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Speaker 2: So it famously stars Betty Davis and Joan Crawford, his

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Speaker 2: sisters Betty Davis is playing this sort of character who

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Speaker 2: had kind of like a Shirley temp child actress upbringing,

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Speaker 2: and she has a campy, corny novelty song that went

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Speaker 2: really really big, right, but her sister kind of eclipsed

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Speaker 2: her and became like a very serious actor. And so

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Speaker 2: the bulk of the film is them both living alone

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Speaker 2: in this you know la months while Betty Davis descends

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Speaker 2: deeper into alcoholism and insanity while continuing to dress like

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Speaker 2: her child's self over her resentment of Joan Crawford's accolades.

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Speaker 2: And then the unspoken thing is that.

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Speaker 1: Is this supposed to be Olivia Djavelin and Joan Fontaine.

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Speaker 2: You know, I don't. I haven't read that much into it.

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Speaker 2: I've only ever heard this sighted as like the er

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Speaker 2: text for this genre. Anyway, there's this whole thing where

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Speaker 2: there was a car accident that crippled Joan Crawford, and

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Speaker 2: so Betty Davis's character is taken care of her but

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Speaker 2: also like wildly abusing her, and it just it's more

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Speaker 2: and more depraved, and it is. It's a fantastic film,

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Speaker 2: and so it launched what might be called, I've seen

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Speaker 2: it called Psycho Biddy, which is quite hilarious, but also

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Speaker 2: also what they call exploitation, which is like essentially you're

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Speaker 2: making like, you know, horror movies starring old women, because

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Speaker 2: as soon as women past a certain age, they become

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Speaker 2: no longer exploitatable is sexual objects, and instead must become

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Speaker 2: objects of loathing.

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Speaker 1: Or just just fear. I mean, like like I was

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Speaker 1: talking to somebody today about how like little kids are

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Speaker 1: so spooky, like in the shining, like old women and

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Speaker 1: little kids are both really really just inferently spooky.

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Speaker 2: I think, yeah. And so one of the other big

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Speaker 2: landmarks for the genre is Arsenic and Old Lace, which

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Speaker 2: is a screwball kind of black comedy that was a

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Speaker 2: Frank Capra film, given his weird that it's a Frank

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Speaker 2: Kapra from giving his his you know, saccherin Ass, but

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Speaker 2: starring Kerry Grant, of course, based on a play. But

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Speaker 2: that genre has gone on to become I mean, people

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Speaker 2: were tagging everything from Hereditary, which starred Tony Collette as

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Speaker 2: I guess the hag because she's like the matriarch of

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Speaker 2: this like sick, demented family, to you know, something like

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Speaker 2: Dead Alive, which is Peter Jackson's first zombie movie that

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Speaker 2: goes also by the title brain Dead, but I mean

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Speaker 2: this goes into everything. Like Joan Crawford also played one

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Speaker 2: of these. She did one of these from William Castle,

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Speaker 2: who is the like fifties exploitation king movie called Straight

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Speaker 2: Jacket that came out in nineteen sixty four. And then

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Speaker 2: Betty Davis did actually a dual role in also that

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Speaker 2: year because she was forever trying to outdo Joan Crawford apparently,

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Speaker 2: where she played identical twins, one of whom was evil

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Speaker 2: and it's just amazing that. And then there's also the

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Speaker 2: Ryan Murphy series Feud that is about about the Betty

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Speaker 2: Davis and Joan Crawford feud that happened on the set

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Speaker 2: of Whatever Happened to Baby Jane. And there's a point

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Speaker 2: where the thing that I famously remember as being like

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Speaker 2: a high point of this is that there's a scene

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Speaker 2: where Betty Davis has to haul Joan Crawford out of

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Speaker 2: her wheelchair and across like a floor and Joan Crawford

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Speaker 2: went out of her way to fill all of her

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Speaker 2: pockets with rocks yep, Yeah, to become heavier for that.

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Speaker 2: But it is I mean, so whatever Happened to Baby

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Speaker 2: Jane nineteen sixty two, that is the bomb drop, And

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Speaker 2: then so you have in sixty four you have the

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Speaker 2: two women also playing in Straight Jacket and Dead Ringer,

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Speaker 2: and then from there it just kind of goes outward. Hush,

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Speaker 2: Sweet Charlotte is the one with Betty Davis and Olivia

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Speaker 2: de Haviland, you know. And some of these were just

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Speaker 2: really fascinating reading about, maybe more than they are to

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Speaker 2: watch to watch, because like there's one of Chelley Winters

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Speaker 2: who's in this movie called Whoever Slew Auntie Roue in

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Speaker 2: nineteen seventy one, and this is all according to Debbie Reynolds.

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Speaker 2: They first met in that film. They were set to

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Speaker 2: do another one called What's the Matter with Helen and

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Speaker 2: Shelley Winters had some kind of a breakdown and like

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Speaker 2: actually like scared Debbie Reynolds. And because at one point

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Speaker 2: Debbie Reynolds went to check this prop knife that she

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Speaker 2: was supposed to be staggered by and it was not rubber.

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Speaker 2: It was a real knife, So I mean, yeah, but

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Speaker 2: then it has this whole hilarious mutation up through everything

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Speaker 2: from Mommy dearist Jordan tell us about Mommy dearest.

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Speaker 1: This is based on the memoir of Joan Crawford's daughter

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Speaker 1: about all the horrors, but basically how traumatizing it was

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Speaker 1: being Joan Crawford's daughter.

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Speaker 2: And that's when it kind of achieves the full you know,

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Speaker 2: Araboro snaking in its own mouth thing where because it's fade,

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Speaker 2: Dunaway is playing joonk Craid is playing John Craft, and

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Speaker 2: that's when you get the classic no wire Hangers Ever

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Speaker 2: scene where she beats her daughter with a wire hanger.

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Speaker 2: So you have both the big bang of exploitation with

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Speaker 2: whatever starring Joan Crawford, and then, however, many years down

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Speaker 2: the line.

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Speaker 1: In eighty one, so nineteen years later, oh yeah.

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Speaker 2: Nineteen years later, you have her character being portrayed as

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Speaker 2: a villainous. I don't know. I think it's really really interesting.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot to dig into there, especially when it

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Speaker 2: concerns like gender studies. Well, yeah, gender studies, how we

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Speaker 2: view women, how women are allowed to age. You know,

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Speaker 2: that's probably enough about that, right.

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Speaker 1: I did not realize that I would hit such a

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Speaker 1: rich vein of trivia right out of the bat.

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Speaker 2: Wow. I mean I think it. I think it's really

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Speaker 2: because there's ones in like every decade, and because so

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Speaker 2: many of them are focused on Hollywood, you do kind

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Speaker 2: of get to see like how Hollywood's attitude towards women changing,

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Speaker 2: you know, and the age that which women can be

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Speaker 2: essentially discarded by society or Hollywood is really interesting and

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Speaker 2: also so so so so sad. But if anyone ever

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Speaker 2: invites you to, like a drag brunch showing of whatever

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Speaker 2: happened to Baby Jane, you go, well, that's a really.

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Speaker 1: Beautiful and articulate exploration of an anecdote that I brought

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Speaker 1: up purely to celebrate women fighting and feuding. So now

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Speaker 1: let's go on the flip side here. Are you familiar

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Speaker 1: with Frank Sinatra and Marlon Brando's feud on the set

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Speaker 1: of Guys and Dolls?

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Speaker 2: No, but this will tie into a Frank Sinatra bit

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Speaker 2: that I actually dug up for you. Tremendous.

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Speaker 1: Oh great, Okay, So Guys and Dolls was a Broadway musical.

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Speaker 2: Guys and Dolls were I'll love a bunch of crazy

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Speaker 2: guys and dolls. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right? Or is that

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Speaker 2: just the Simpson's version.

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Speaker 1: I think that's just the Simpsons version. It's been a minute,

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Speaker 1: But when it was brought to the big screen. Frank

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Speaker 1: Sinatra set his sights on the main part of sky

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Speaker 1: mastersin great name thanks I saw it on a hair dry.

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Speaker 1: Unfortunately that part went to Marlon Brando and Sinatra and

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Speaker 1: said was cast as the also incredibly named Nathan Detroit,

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Speaker 1: who's kind of the older, older second Banana. Sinatra was

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Speaker 1: not happy about this. At their first meeting, Sinatra reportedly

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Speaker 1: scoffed a Brando, don't give me any of that actors Studio.

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Speaker 2: Brando, or it's ring ding ding for you, Bozo.

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Speaker 1: Brando also had some good lines. He later said, Frank

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Speaker 1: is the kind of guy when he dies, he's going

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Speaker 1: to go to heaven and give God a hard time

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Speaker 1: for making him bald. Tremendous for a guy who worked

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Speaker 1: really hard trying to hide the fact that he was bald.

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Speaker 1: Actually went to j Seabring, famous Manson family victim. J.

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Speaker 1: Sebring was a pioneer and men's hair pieces. Things did

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Speaker 1: not improve between Sinatra and Brando over the course of

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Speaker 1: the production. Sinaptra called Brando quote the world's most overrated

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Speaker 1: actor and referred to him privately and also publicly, I

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Speaker 1: believe as mumbles.

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Speaker 2: Oh, that's pretty accurate of.

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Speaker 1: You know, come on, Frank was old school and he

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Speaker 1: knew enough to try to get you know, first take,

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Speaker 1: best take. Marlon famously needed many many takes, and Brando

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Speaker 1: he leaned into this just to tweak Sinatra. During a

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Speaker 1: scene when Frank was supposed to eat a piece of cheesecake,

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Speaker 1: Brando kept intentionally flubbing his lines, making it to the

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Speaker 1: Sinatra had to just eat more and more and more cheesecake,

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Speaker 1: and apparently Sinatra reached the breaking point and screamed, how

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Speaker 1: much damn cheesecake you think I can eat?

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Speaker 2: Imagine that place? Yeah, I mean they have like the

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Speaker 2: spit bucket for actors who are.

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Speaker 1: Doing that, right, Yeah, it's got Come on, Sinatra.

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Speaker 2: No, yeah, he's gonna eat cheesecake.

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Speaker 1: No.

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Speaker 2: But I read at one point that when they were

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Speaker 2: doing Numb, I think it was a season Zari, he

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Speaker 2: was talking about Chris Pratt on Parks and rec where

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Speaker 2: he's like, anytime you see Chris Pratt eating food in

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Speaker 2: that show, he was just eating it like he doesn't

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Speaker 2: use a spit bucket, so like we would when we

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Speaker 2: have like seven takes of him like eating burgers during

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Speaker 2: a lunch scene. He actually ate all of those, which

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Speaker 2: is why he had, I guess had to crash diet

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Speaker 2: and become like, you know hot for that first Guardians

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Speaker 2: of the Galaxy movies because he was just never using

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Speaker 2: a spit bucket on the set of Parks and Reck.

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Speaker 1: Apparently Sinatra was really concerned about Marlin's relationship with his

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Speaker 1: then wife with Frank's then wife, Ava Gardner, and one

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Speaker 1: biographer alleges that Sinatra had Brando kidnapped by his mob friends,

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Speaker 1: rough up, and then basically threatening his life in order.

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Speaker 2: To get him to behave on set.

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Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, wow, I've got some brand those stuff here.

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Speaker 2: But if you want to let me intro my Frank story.

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Speaker 1: That I found, Oh, tell me tell me your Frank

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Speaker 1: star love Frank stares Well.

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Speaker 2: Did you know that die Hard was originally supposed to

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Speaker 2: star Frank Sinatra? No, that's right. The die Hard.

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Speaker 1: What era like?

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Speaker 2: Was it in development? Hell for like decades or no?

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Speaker 2: So this is so, this is why this is what's

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Speaker 2: wild is that the novel that die Hard is based

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Speaker 2: off of and.

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Speaker 1: Based on the novel Push by Sapphire.

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Speaker 2: Yes, it is based on the novel Push by Sapphire.

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Speaker 2: It's based on how many different bits can we do

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Speaker 2: with that? No? Anyway, So it was based on a

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Speaker 2: novel called Nothing Lasts Forever by the author Roderick Thorpe.

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Speaker 2: And we all know Roderick Thorpe certainly he's mostly his

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Speaker 2: early work, so anyway, but it was a sequel to

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Speaker 2: a novel that he'd written in this series, I guess

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Speaker 2: in nineteen sixty called The Detective, which was made into

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Speaker 2: a movie in nineteen sixty starring Frank Sinatra. Oh sorry, yeah,

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Speaker 2: that wasn't made nineteen sixty. That was made in nineteen

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Speaker 2: sixty eight. So that was kind of gone to seed

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Speaker 2: a little bit Frank Sinatra where he's playing a cop.

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Speaker 2: And so when they went to adapt this sequel into Diehard,

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Speaker 2: they approached Frank Sinatra and they were like, yeah, man,

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Speaker 2: do you want to come back as a for like

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Speaker 2: one more? Yeah? And I have to say that Sinatra's

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Speaker 2: response is accurate and very funny. He said, I'm too

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Speaker 2: old and too rich to do this. So wait a minute.

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Speaker 1: So this would have been eighty what was Diehard eighty seven?

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Speaker 2: Diehard is eighty eight, eighty eight.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he would have been like seventy one.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's insane that they contacted him at all, but

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Speaker 2: I guess they were trying to be, you know, retain

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Speaker 2: some fidelity to like what he'd already done.

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Speaker 1: Or just kissed the ring, because I feel like the

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Speaker 1: last person you want is Frank Pisty. They probably knew

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Speaker 1: he was gonna say no, but figure they had to

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Speaker 1: go and ask him, just because he was already in

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Speaker 1: the in the family of the stuff they'd done, and

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Speaker 1: in the family in the other way.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this guy, this guy. Roderick Thorpe wrote This Detective,

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Speaker 2: which was made into a movie in nineteen sixty eight,

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Speaker 2: again starring Frank Sinatra, and then in Nothing Lasts Forever.

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Speaker 2: The plot of that is the forty story office headquarters

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Speaker 2: of the Claxon Oil Corporation, But other than that, the

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Speaker 2: plot of this novel is basically just can die hard.

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Speaker 2: Thorpe was inspired to write it by seeing The Twering

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Speaker 2: Inferno in nineteen seventy five, of course, and so so yeah,

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Speaker 2: he decided to write it after that, and then wanted

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Speaker 2: it to be a follow up film, and Frank was like, no, dude,

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Speaker 2: I'm very old.

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Speaker 1: Is it a Christmas book?

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Speaker 2: Yes, it did also take place over Christmas. And then

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Speaker 2: I wanted to google what other Frank Sinatra films he

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Speaker 2: turned down, And I don't think you would be able

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Speaker 2: to guess what the other one was.

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Speaker 1: This kind of rings rings, a bell, ring, a ding

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Speaker 1: ding for you Bozo's Yes, I don't remember, but as

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Speaker 1: soon as you say it might be like, oh.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was Dirty Harry.

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Speaker 1: Oh never mind, No, I didn't know that. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: Frank Sinatra was going to hunt the Zodiac Killer. I understanding, Yeah, correct.

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Speaker 2: Yes, that is correct. A dead right, which evolved into

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Speaker 2: Dirty Harry was a script by Harry Julian Fink and

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Speaker 2: Rita m Think. If that's your name, man, just change it.

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Speaker 2: You're not going to go places with that name. But

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Speaker 2: they did. They wrote a script about Harry Callahan and

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Speaker 2: this film was eventually retitled Dirty Harry. However, first the

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Speaker 2: studio went to Paul Newman, but bless his heart, he

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Speaker 2: turned it down because he found it too far right.

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Speaker 2: And then it went to Sinatra. He thought it was

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Speaker 2: too lefty. Yeah, I was gonna say no. Apparently he

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Speaker 2: took it. And then and in the like a televised

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Speaker 2: nineteen seventy interview, he said that he was planning on

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Speaker 2: shooting this film in San Francisco, and he was very

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Speaker 2: excited about it. He said it was a marvelous script

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Speaker 2: and that he himself requested that it change from the

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Speaker 2: setting of New York to San Francisco, which he said,

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Speaker 2: I don't think has ever been photographed as well as

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Speaker 2: it should be. Wow, but he backed out. He claimed

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Speaker 2: that this was because he broke his wrist while filming

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Speaker 2: the Manchurian Candidate, and therefore the the forty four fifty

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Speaker 2: seven magnum most powerful handgun in the world, Dirty Dirty

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Speaker 2: Harry's trademark weapon was simply too heavy to lift for him.

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Speaker 2: But Mark Elliot, who wrote a biography of clint Eastwood,

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Speaker 2: said it was more likely that as the script in

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Speaker 2: part evolved, Frank Sinatra was like, I don't I don't

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Speaker 2: want to like do this to my public image, and

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Speaker 2: it went to Old clint Ory went.

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Speaker 1: Down to hate Ashbury and saw what was happening there,

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Speaker 1: and he decided he did not want to spend any

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Speaker 1: more time in San Francisco.

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Speaker 2: In It's Probably Fair, also supposedly supposedly Robert mitcham Bert Lancaster,

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Speaker 2: Steve McQueen, John Wayne, and George C. Scott all was

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Speaker 2: floated for for Dirty Harry before it came to Eastwood.

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Speaker 1: Those all would have ruled for the most part. I

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Speaker 1: mean if John Wayne, I feel like it would have

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Speaker 1: been a much worse movie anybody else, Yeah, McQueen, that

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Speaker 1: actually kind of would have been great.

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Speaker 2: Well. John Milius of an Apocalypse Now was going to

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Speaker 2: do a script on it, apparent back when Sinatra and

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Speaker 2: Irvin Kirshner were set on it. Terrence Malik also wrote

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Speaker 2: a draft for this film like is is dirty the

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Speaker 2: original Dirty Harry? Like the web that connects all of Hollywood?

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Speaker 2: Also here you go ties back into your original one.

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Speaker 2: Bert Lancaster turned it down. Marlon Brando was considered but

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Speaker 2: never formally approached, Yeah, and believing that the role was

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Speaker 2: too right wing for him. It was Paul Newman who

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Speaker 2: suggested it would go to Eastward.

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Speaker 1: Wow, so that is great because I've got Brando and

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Speaker 1: Newman's stories coming up.

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Speaker 2: So this is wonderful.

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Speaker 1: This is beautiful.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, okay, wait, sorry, one more thing. Audie

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Speaker 2: Murphy was supposed to play the serial killer Scorpio.

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Speaker 1: Trying to tell the folks who that is.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean Audie Murphy is like an American hero.

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Speaker 2: He was the He was the most decorated combat soldier

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Speaker 2: in World War Two, and possibly the most highly decorated

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Speaker 2: soldier in the history of the US Army. He received

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Speaker 2: every military combat award available from the Army and French

384
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Speaker 2: and Belgian awards for heroism. I believe he single handedly

385
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Speaker 2: held off a company of German soldiers for an hour

386
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Speaker 2: in France. And he was just a sweet little Texan

387
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Speaker 2: boy from Kingston, Texas born into sharecroppers. He lied about

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Speaker 2: his age to get into the army. After Pearl Harbor,

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Speaker 2: he's credited with killing two hundred and forty one enemy soldiers.

390
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Speaker 2: And then he became an actor. That's quite a pipeline. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I know, yeah, I am mass murderer, but in the

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Speaker 2: good War, in like the only good war, you know.

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Speaker 2: So first he portrayed himself in an autobiographical film called

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Speaker 2: Helen Back based on his memoirs. But then he started

395
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Speaker 2: just doing westerns. Then he began breeding horses, and apparently

396
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Speaker 2: he was set to play the serial killer Scorpio based

397
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Speaker 2: on the Zodiac killer in Dirty Harry. And then he

398
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Speaker 2: died in a plane crash. So how about that?

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Speaker 1: That is unbelievable. Wow? After taking so many lives. He decided,

400
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Speaker 1: you know what, I'm going to create lives, but horse

401
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:19,080
Speaker 1: lives stares off in the middle distance.

402
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Speaker 2: I'm going to create lives.

403
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Speaker 1: Horse lives ice clinking in his class, and I'll sell

404
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:30,080
Speaker 1: them anyway. Yeah, I just want to talk a little

405
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Speaker 1: bit more about Marlon Brando's history of just not caring

406
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Speaker 1: to learn his lines at a certain point in his career,

407
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Speaker 1: and that certain point, I guess being early in his career.

408
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Speaker 2: There's the scene that he was very heralded for.

409
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Speaker 1: In the Last Tango in Paris, when he's standing over

410
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Speaker 1: the dead body of his wife and delivering this monologue,

411
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Speaker 1: and he does this incredible glance upward, and sinophiles and

412
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Speaker 1: critics all thought that was just such an inspired moment

413
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Speaker 1: of looking to the heavens or God to make a

414
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Speaker 1: personal appeal to God.

415
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Speaker 2: He really brings out your Boston accent.

416
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Speaker 1: By the way, what God, God? But no, it was

417
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Speaker 1: just because he had Q cards placed all around the room,

418
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,080
Speaker 1: and his next one was just up on the ceiling,

419
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 1: and he just wasn't even trying to hide the fact

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Speaker 1: that he was looking at it.

421
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Speaker 2: If I remember correctly. In Casino, probably de Niro had

422
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Speaker 2: already become lazy enough to start hiding his lines on

423
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Speaker 2: index cards all around the set, non Q cards, and

424
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Speaker 2: I think Rickles is in that movie as the pit boss.

425
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Speaker 2: Rickles was like constantly giving him for it. He was

426
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Speaker 2: like a big time movie star, Like, you can't even

427
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Speaker 2: memorize his own lines. I do this like twelve nights

428
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Speaker 2: a week in Vegas, like blah blah blah blah blah.

429
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Speaker 2: I'm just constantly riding him about not being the all

430
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Speaker 2: big serious actor, mister taxi driver, mister mister lamatta can't

431
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Speaker 2: memorize his lines, like really riding him very hard for

432
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:03,480
Speaker 2: him because it's yeah, exactly like Bobbyarible. Yeah, I mean

433
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,119
Speaker 2: like Bobby de Niro was like, like, I guess just

434
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:09,119
Speaker 2: like laughing along with it because he was like, yeah,

435
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:12,200
Speaker 2: I don't care that much. I suck.

436
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:18,119
Speaker 1: On the incredibly disastrous production of the Island of Doctor Moreau.

437
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,920
Speaker 2: Yes, let's talk about Island of Doctor Moreau.

438
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:24,359
Speaker 1: So Brando had his lines fed to him through an

439
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,359
Speaker 1: earpiece or he just ad lib them altogether, which is hilarious.

440
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:30,359
Speaker 1: But it also co starred Val Kilmer, who competed with

441
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:33,200
Speaker 1: Brando for who could be the biggest freak on the set.

442
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 1: I do not have this handy, But do you have

443
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 1: any any moments that come to mind? I know you've

444
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 1: been going down a deep val Kilmer rabbit hole after

445
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:41,240
Speaker 1: his death.

446
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 2: I have no. I mean there's just a lot of it.

447
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:47,000
Speaker 2: Like there was one moment that Val Kilmer cited like

448
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:51,160
Speaker 2: as especially sad for him personally because he was talking

449
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:54,159
Speaker 2: about like the moment he knew that the movie was

450
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:59,440
Speaker 2: like completely doomed, and it was because Brando had said

451
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,359
Speaker 2: something to him like, uh, did you get at my boy?

452
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:06,440
Speaker 2: It's just a money picture, And Valko was just like, oh,

453
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 2: like that makes me sad now. But no, most of

454
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:12,359
Speaker 2: my stories about that are from the director, Richard Stanley,

455
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 2: who is an interesting guy. Where do you finish yours? First?

456
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 1: Well, there's a great story with Brando and the director

457
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 1: of another movie he did the score, Frank Oz, Oh, yeah, I.

458
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:25,919
Speaker 2: Bet you'd like to put your hand up my ass

459
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 2: like one of umpets could told me like like miss

460
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:30,680
Speaker 2: Piggy is So. I don't know where that Brando impression

461
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 2: is coming from. It's just kind of the James Gandal

462
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 2: feeding like wheeze, yeah, but no that it is what

463
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:38,680
Speaker 2: he said. To him right. Yeah.

464
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:42,719
Speaker 1: Frank Oz was famously a close associate of Jim Henson,

465
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 1: and he voiced a number of Muppet characters, including Miss Piggy,

466
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:48,919
Speaker 1: and Brando would derisively refer to him.

467
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:50,679
Speaker 2: As Miss Piggy on the set of this movie.

468
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:55,760
Speaker 1: Because frank Oz became a fairly big deal director, usually

469
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 1: have like black comedies. I think he did like in

470
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:01,760
Speaker 1: and Out and forget what else he did, but Branda

471
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:06,200
Speaker 1: really resented being directed by, in his words, a muppeteer.

472
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,120
Speaker 1: And I did not have handy the actual quote, but

473
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:12,440
Speaker 1: it was something like can you say that again?

474
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:14,679
Speaker 2: What did he say? I think he said something like,

475
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:17,360
Speaker 2: I bet you wish you could stick your hand up

476
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:19,960
Speaker 2: my ass and direct me like you do that pig

477
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 2: puppet or like miss Piggy or whatever.

478
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:27,880
Speaker 1: Imagining the words miss Piggy coming out of Brando's mouth.

479
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 2: Miss Piggy, Miss Piggy, I bet you wish you could

480
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:33,919
Speaker 2: shove that hand of my ass and swimming like miss Piggy.

481
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:35,679
Speaker 2: I don't know, I mean, I'm in the names. Too

482
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 2: much energy, that's too much energy for that error. Yeah,

483
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:43,159
Speaker 2: that's true. Now island to doctor Morose Wild. My dad

484
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 2: went and I went and saw that because what Yeah, well,

485
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 2: because he remember the old Charles Lawton one. And we

486
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:55,440
Speaker 2: were just confused and irritated, like so many others who

487
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,920
Speaker 2: saw that film. But it's quite a curio. It's got

488
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 2: firu'sa balt of the Craft fame.

489
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:08,919
Speaker 1: Happy Gilmore Yeah with no water boy, Yes, yes, my mistake.

490
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:13,159
Speaker 2: How how dare you? But yeah, it was like a

491
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 2: famously troge. This guy Richard Stanley, who is like a

492
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 2: descendant of Richard Stanley who went like doctor Livingstone, I presume,

493
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:26,240
Speaker 2: like wow, yeah, he's like a descendant of that British explorer.

494
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 2: But he's also a weirdo h and he's super into

495
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,919
Speaker 2: like Wicca and stupid shit like that. He also has

496
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:37,119
Speaker 2: a bunch of sexual abuse violage allegations, so he's not

497
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 2: like a good guy. But he had made this one

498
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 2: pretty cool film called Hardware that had some neat practical

499
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 2: effects and was kind of a low budget hit, and

500
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:50,440
Speaker 2: so like what happens, as it does in Hollywood, was

501
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 2: that he was then tapped to do this and he

502
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 2: wanted it to be like a big passion project and

503
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 2: he was really excited about doing it. And then they

504
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 2: like got onto the location and it was a nightmare,

505
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 2: and brand was a nightmare, and Kilmer was something of

506
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 2: a nightmare. So he was like fighting with everyone all

507
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 2: the time, and he was eventually fired and removed from

508
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 2: the set. But in what is either straight up psychopathic

509
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 2: behavior or genius, he like found his way into the

510
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 2: makeup tent and asked an artist to put him like

511
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:29,720
Speaker 2: in a prosthetic mask to just like sneak back onto

512
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 2: the set to just see what was happening with his movie.

513
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 2: So he's like, there's and I think in this documentary

514
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 2: about it, he still has the pig mask when it's

515
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:43,920
Speaker 2: like degrading and it's like gross because it was latex

516
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:46,320
Speaker 2: and it was rotting. But he's like, yeah, here's the

517
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 2: only pig mask and they, you know, booted me so

518
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 2: I can go back on the set. Yeah, really fascinating

519
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:54,800
Speaker 2: documentary about him and about that film is sort of

520
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 2: a general nightmare, and especially for all the people that

521
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 2: at what it costs, all the people that it attracted.

522
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 2: I mean the David Thulis is the British actor and

523
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 2: he's certainly no slouch now and probably wasn't as much

524
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 2: of the time, but him and Val Kilmer and uh,

525
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 2: Firouza balk and like that was a big cast. You know,

526
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 2: there was money behind that cast, and yeah, just went

527
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 2: it down into history as one of the old time flops.

528
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 1: That is incredible. Why and he's done nothing else. I'm

529
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 1: looking at his Wikipedia and I have no idea what

530
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 1: any of these movies are.

531
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 2: He literally took it like a retirement for many decades

532
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 2: and then came back with his HP Lovecraft adaptation called

533
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 2: Color out of Space that stars Nicholas Cage and is

534
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 2: actually a decent film. I liked it. But yeah, like

535
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:42,479
Speaker 2: as soon as he was getting ready to mount this comeback,

536
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 2: there were like all these you know, gross allegations that

537
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 2: surface about him, And you know, I don't trust men

538
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 2: who are into WICCA, right, Like, I don't know that

539
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:57,960
Speaker 2: feels I feel like I'm wading into potentially canceled territory here.

540
00:30:57,960 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 2: But I don't trust male Wickan.

541
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 1: I guess I don't either, But I really don't want

542
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:03,680
Speaker 1: mail Wickens mad at me.

543
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:04,959
Speaker 2: Oh what are they going to do?

544
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:06,240
Speaker 1: Tie some sticks together?

545
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:11,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, boil some herbs near you? Maybe I just want

546
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 2: to keep my options open. Yeah, it's fair, that's fair.

547
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 2: All right?

548
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 1: Moving on, I was at the antiquarian book and Ephemera

549
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,840
Speaker 1: fair this weekend at the Park Avenue Armory.

550
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 2: And it's this very unbrand for you.

551
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it's amazing. It's like basically like a museum,

552
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 1: but everything's for sale. Books are the big thing, and

553
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 1: they have a lot of like you know, first editions

554
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:35,959
Speaker 1: or whatever. But then they would have like, oh, an

555
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 1: inscribed first edition of Oliver Twist. They written dedication Charles Dickens.

556
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 1: Oh that's half a million dollars.

557
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 2: Sure.

558
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 1: The most most expensive thing I saw was a two

559
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 1: point five million dollars. It was a proof of one

560
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 1: of Galileo's books, but with Galileo's handwritten notes in the margins.

561
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 1: Another of one of Copernicus's books with some of his

562
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 1: notes in the margins too. That was all around two million.

563
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 2: And these ended up in New York.

564
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean they were for sale. I mean they

565
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 1: just had little they were in little cases, and they

566
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,720
Speaker 1: had you know, it was like an expo center kind

567
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 1: of thing.

568
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 2: No, I'm sure.

569
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:16,240
Speaker 1: I just like they had hundreds and hundreds of dealers. Okay, yeah,

570
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 1: but they had lovecraft handwritten letters for sale.

571
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 2: Oh my god, so much. So. I'm sure they were

572
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 2: so racist.

573
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 1: I didn't see that they had They had Tolkien. They

574
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 1: had hand drawn like family tree type chart things that

575
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 1: Tolkien had drawn. Yeah, really interesting. Yeah, the past years

576
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 1: I've gone, they had like Albert Einstein's childhood block set

577
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 1: for like one hundred and sixty thousand dollars. Yeah, yeah

578
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 1: it was. It was really cool stuff. But yeah, you

579
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 1: mentioned Lovecraft and that made me think of it.

580
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 2: But no, I mean, I can only imagine the staggering

581
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 2: depths of racism that his letters would have contained. I mean,

582
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 2: he's one of those he's like, he's so difficult to

583
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 2: reckon with in modern horror because you know, he introduced

584
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:02,719
Speaker 2: one of the truly like foundational concepts of of like fear.

585
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:05,760
Speaker 2: Like I don't know if you've ever have you ever

586
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 2: have you ever like read about him?

587
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 1: Very little?

588
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 2: No, So there's this like concept of what has now

589
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 2: been termed like love crafty and madness, which is this

590
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 2: idea that like, you know, your character or protagonist or

591
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 2: whatever it can be driven to madness or like suffer

592
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 2: this paralyzation of the mind and be completely lost by

593
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 2: simply glimpsing the true vast nature of what lurks behind

594
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 2: the veil of reality. And and in Love Cress fiction,

595
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 2: it's often part of the Cthulhu mythos, where it's like

596
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 2: these elder gods like Cthulhu and naralthrope tech Uh. I

597
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 2: think I wing to that one. I don't. I don't

598
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 2: know if it's actually narrow. Uh. They all have weird names.

599
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:56,480
Speaker 2: But the idea is that there's these enormous like horrifying

600
00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 2: beings like they're sentient or whatever, but they're they're so

601
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 2: mind bogglingly huge and they and they defy all logic

602
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 2: of like our natural world. That like most of the

603
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 2: encounters with the protagonists end with them being just like

604
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 2: driven mad by trying to like comprehend the mass and

605
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:19,759
Speaker 2: scale of these things. And and so that was one

606
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 2: of his big contributions and which people have mined a

607
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:26,640
Speaker 2: lot as like a trope of just being like this

608
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:29,399
Speaker 2: person lost their mind because they saw something that they

609
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 2: could not figure out, you know. And his other big

610
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 2: thing is like cosmic horror, because he was terrified of

611
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:41,320
Speaker 2: He was like something of an agoraphobe. He lived a

612
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:43,759
Speaker 2: quite secluded life and wrote a lot of letters and

613
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:46,880
Speaker 2: a lot of fiction primarily because of his racism. He

614
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 2: like was outright like refused to be out among like

615
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 2: the mixed breeds of the of the city. And I

616
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,400
Speaker 2: mean he wrote about all this about like mixed and

617
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 2: miscegenation and in like letters, So that's how we know

618
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:07,839
Speaker 2: how awful he was. But this idea of cosmic war,

619
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:10,319
Speaker 2: of just being like, Okay, you're not scared of like

620
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 2: a ghost in a house, or like you're not scared

621
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 2: of like a man who turns into a wolf, or

622
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:19,080
Speaker 2: a man who is a dracula, or a man who

623
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 2: is made out of other dead men. You're literally scared

624
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:27,880
Speaker 2: of something that comes out of space because you have

625
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:34,400
Speaker 2: no reference for it. Nothing in your earthly experience can

626
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 2: even properly describe or grasp what you're seeing. And so

627
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 2: that is the basis of the fear that you're that

628
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:46,319
Speaker 2: you're feeling. And I think that's that's interesting because I

629
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 2: mean it is like, I don't know anyone who invents

630
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 2: like a new way of fear is like this has

631
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:56,600
Speaker 2: to be a pretty good writer. But you know, at

632
00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:58,920
Speaker 2: the end of the day is still like JK. Rowling,

633
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:01,319
Speaker 2: where there's like a giant an asterisk on all of

634
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 2: his writing was like, by the way, this guy was

635
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:07,760
Speaker 2: very some screws loose. He was also terrified of the ocean.

636
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 2: He was a big New England guy and like a

637
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 2: lot of his stories have like fish people, or at

638
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:14,839
Speaker 2: least one of the most famous ones that the Dune,

639
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:18,880
Speaker 2: the dumbedd Horror. I don't know, there's one of the

640
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 2: fish people. And and he was just like this was

641
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:23,640
Speaker 2: like when people were exploring the oceans. And as soon

642
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:26,600
Speaker 2: as he like learned how big the oceans were and

643
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,759
Speaker 2: was like, my god, there's just so much of it.

644
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:33,920
Speaker 2: He became like transfixed and horrified by the idea of

645
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 2: the oceans and like fish and the and the species

646
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 2: of fish that might live down there. It's really he

647
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:46,280
Speaker 2: was a real crackpot, but you know, an occasionally good writer.

648
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:50,920
Speaker 1: I was watching did you ever see the Barry Levinson movie,

649
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 1: part of his like Baltimore trilogy, Diner. It's a very

650
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:58,279
Speaker 1: strange I was watching clips from it the other day.

651
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:00,120
Speaker 1: I hadn't seen it in years. It's about all these

652
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:02,920
Speaker 1: guys in the early twenties who were just grappling with

653
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:05,799
Speaker 1: their own immaturity as some of them start to go

654
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 1: off and get married. And I was watching an old

655
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:10,360
Speaker 1: Ebert and rope Er. It's just going Ebert clip reviewing

656
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 1: the movie, and they're all talking about how these men

657
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 1: are basically scared of women. Yeah, and you mentioning, Now,

658
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:19,359
Speaker 1: it's just something that there's no frame of reference for.

659
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 1: And I was thinking about me in The Wonder Years

660
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:23,440
Speaker 1: is one of my favorite shows, just the sort of

661
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:27,840
Speaker 1: way that these preteen boys are in all but also

662
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:31,719
Speaker 1: terror of these preteen girls in their class that they

663
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 1: don't know how to interact with or Yeah, that level

664
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 1: of fear.

665
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:38,920
Speaker 2: It's interesting, No, I know, And I think there's like

666
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 2: a lot of it. Actually that is like going away.

667
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,719
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't think we had the Internet by

668
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:48,440
Speaker 2: the time I was ready to use it. So I

669
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 2: think like much of my you know, early exposure to

670
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 2: women was like natural. But imagine being a kid base days,

671
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:58,879
Speaker 2: like how do you find put up with being blasted

672
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:02,200
Speaker 2: by like internet at porn before you're like like, well,

673
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:04,400
Speaker 2: how does no wonder everyone's mentally ill? I don't know,

674
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:04,880
Speaker 2: I don't know.

675
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:05,279
Speaker 1: I don't know.

676
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:08,439
Speaker 2: This is getting into I'm just postulating about the state

677
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 2: of young masculinity. I was reading this review of this

678
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 2: or listening to this podcast about this Sodaberg movie that

679
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 2: came out last year called Presence good movie. Interesting, interesting stuff.

680
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 2: But one of the questions that came up for these

681
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:26,759
Speaker 2: because these guys on this podcast were like they're all

682
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 2: dads and they or two of them were dads and

683
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:31,799
Speaker 2: they had daughters. They were like, I don't know, is

684
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 2: this like an unspoken part of like parenting where when

685
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:39,560
Speaker 2: you're like expecting and you don't know the child's sex,

686
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:43,800
Speaker 2: you're like desperately hoping it won't be a boy, because

687
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:51,040
Speaker 2: these days, like the onus of having a boy is like, well,

688
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:53,400
Speaker 2: is he going to become a serial killer or a

689
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:56,360
Speaker 2: rapist or like there's all this stuff I had or

690
00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 2: like just a garden variety like Jordan Peterson piece of

691
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:02,400
Speaker 2: like there's all this stuff that I have to like

692
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:05,760
Speaker 2: weigh into if you know that you're having a boy,

693
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:08,120
Speaker 2: and obviously there are a lot of fears that connected

694
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:11,719
Speaker 2: to having a girl, certainly, but these two guys at

695
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 2: least were like, yeah, I was way way more scared

696
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:15,800
Speaker 2: it was going to be a boy and then I

697
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:19,600
Speaker 2: would have to like essentially like safeguard they talked about,

698
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:24,400
Speaker 2: like preventing another's a future serial killer from like taking

699
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 2: to the streets. I was like, that is horrifying.

700
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:29,759
Speaker 1: I understand that, but I think that could also be

701
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:33,319
Speaker 1: read as dad's not wanting to do their job and

702
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:37,440
Speaker 1: like instill a sense of moral moral compass into their

703
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:38,360
Speaker 1: kids too.

704
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:40,920
Speaker 2: That's also fair. I see both sides.

705
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:45,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're going to take a quick break, but we'll

706
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:48,279
Speaker 1: be right back with more too much information in just

707
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:48,760
Speaker 1: a moment.

708
00:39:54,480 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 2: Wow, all right, where we go? What were we talking about?

709
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:08,839
Speaker 1: Well, from the future of masculinity, let's go circle back

710
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:09,600
Speaker 1: to force feeding.

711
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:13,279
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, No, we.

712
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:17,000
Speaker 1: Talked about how Brando would intentionally flub his lines the

713
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 1: forest Sinatra, they eat cheesecake, but she apparently.

714
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:23,240
Speaker 2: Really liked I thought you were going somewhere much weirder

715
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:23,839
Speaker 2: with that, pal.

716
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 1: Oh no, no, no, no. I wanted to talk about

717
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:31,759
Speaker 1: another instance of onset force feeding, but this one's.

718
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 2: Slightly more charitable.

719
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, okay, So talk about the production of the

720
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 1: film adaptation of Tennessee Williams A Cat on a hot

721
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:45,319
Speaker 1: tin roof, and filming began an early nineteen fifty eight

722
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:48,919
Speaker 1: co starred Liz Taylor and Paul Newman, but on March

723
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 1: twenty second of that year, shortly into the film's production,

724
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 1: Liz Taylor's husband the movie. Producer Mike Todd, produced Around

725
00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:58,720
Speaker 1: the World in Eighty Days, died in a plane crash

726
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 1: near New Mexico. He'd been riding in the couple's private

727
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:06,800
Speaker 1: jet called the Lucky Liz. Liz herself was supposed to

728
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 1: be along for the ride, but she was homesick with

729
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:12,600
Speaker 1: a fever, and that ended up saving her life. Her

730
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 1: marriage had lasted only four hundred and eighteen days. This

731
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:21,520
Speaker 1: would later be referred to as the Successful Marriage. Deeply

732
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:24,880
Speaker 1: grief stricken, Liz locked herself at home and refused to

733
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:27,880
Speaker 1: go to the set, understandably so, forcing director Richard Brooks

734
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 1: to shoot around Taylor and do as much as he

735
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:33,800
Speaker 1: could without her. Then three weeks later, Liz returned to

736
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:36,360
Speaker 1: the set and announced that she was ready to work, saying,

737
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:39,279
Speaker 1: I think Mike or a late husband would have wanted

738
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:42,200
Speaker 1: me to finish this movie. But she'd been too grief

739
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:44,479
Speaker 1: stricken to eat, and she'd lost a ton of weight,

740
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 1: and she just was refusing any offers of food. Fearing

741
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:50,920
Speaker 1: for her health, the director Richard Brooks ordered food to

742
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 1: be brought to the set and shoot a scene that

743
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:55,719
Speaker 1: takes place over dinner, and he kept ordering take after

744
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 1: take after take in a desperate bid to get Liz

745
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:02,600
Speaker 1: to eat something and regran it strength, which is sad

746
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 1: but also in its own way suite and you got

747
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:07,560
Speaker 1: a feel for this guy, Richard Brooks. He'd had a

748
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:12,000
Speaker 1: very troubled production with this movie. Initially, MGM wanted James

749
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:14,239
Speaker 1: Dean in the lead role that eventually went to Paul

750
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 1: Newman as the ex American football star that became an

751
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:20,320
Speaker 1: alcoholic after the death of his friend. But the script

752
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:22,839
Speaker 1: writing took so long for Tennessee Williams that James Dean

753
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:25,920
Speaker 1: actually died in a car accident before it could be finished.

754
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:29,760
Speaker 1: James Dean was famously driving his nineteen fifty five Portie

755
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:34,319
Speaker 1: five point fifty Spider nicknamed Little Bastard. He was hit

756
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:37,680
Speaker 1: by a man named James turnip Seed driving a truck.

757
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:41,800
Speaker 1: James Dean's last words were that guy's got to stop.

758
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:49,279
Speaker 1: He'll see us narrator voice he did not Yeah. James

759
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:51,400
Speaker 1: Dean's role went to Paul Newman, who's then an up

760
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:54,239
Speaker 1: and coming star, But this whole delay led to the

761
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:57,439
Speaker 1: replacement of Grace Kelly, who was gonna be the Loz

762
00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:00,400
Speaker 1: Taylor role. She went off and got married to Prince

763
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:04,120
Speaker 1: Rainier of Monaco and became Princess Grace, much to the

764
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:07,840
Speaker 1: chagrin of everyone in Hollywood.

765
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:10,319
Speaker 2: And like everyone in the world. Man, every time I

766
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:16,799
Speaker 2: watched like rear Window, I am just assaulted anew by

767
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:20,479
Speaker 2: that woman's beauty. And it just makes the film set

768
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:28,120
Speaker 2: up of like old Raggedy James Jimmy Stewart out there like, no,

769
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:30,680
Speaker 2: I don't want to have sex with you because there's

770
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:35,759
Speaker 2: something going on in my apartment's backyard. It's got a.

771
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:38,480
Speaker 1: Little a little into Bing Crosby there, but all I mean,

772
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:42,399
Speaker 1: she's like glowing from within and he's like, well, I've

773
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 1: got this telephoto lens that I'm really interested. Do I

774
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:49,120
Speaker 1: tell you my Grace Kelly story.

775
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:50,320
Speaker 2: Princess Grace or Grace.

776
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:53,480
Speaker 1: Kelly Grace, Well.

777
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:55,760
Speaker 2: It depends on when you met her. I didn't need her.

778
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:00,440
Speaker 2: Oh then you don't have a prince. Oh okay.

779
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 1: My aunt used to work for Universal Studios and her

780
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:06,280
Speaker 1: boss was this guy, Lou Wasserman, who ran the studios.

781
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:08,359
Speaker 1: The book about him is called the Last Mogul, and

782
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:09,799
Speaker 1: that's kind of true. He was like one of the

783
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:12,319
Speaker 1: last big Hollywood power players and he died in like

784
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:15,120
Speaker 1: two thousand and two or something, and he would always

785
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:17,640
Speaker 1: regale my aunt, who we really looked at as like

786
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:21,359
Speaker 1: a daughter, with all these stories from that era. And

787
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:24,359
Speaker 1: he was talking about how he when he got word

788
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:26,799
Speaker 1: that Grace Kelly wanted to go marry Prince Rainier, and

789
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:28,960
Speaker 1: he went and you know, called her up or maybe

790
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 1: even went to see her or something. It was like,

791
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:33,880
Speaker 1: because I guess he was like a really early supporter

792
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:35,960
Speaker 1: of her and really kind of sort of made her

793
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:37,719
Speaker 1: a star. It's like, Yeah, what are you doing go

794
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:40,239
Speaker 1: to this blankety blank country where they don't you know, well,

795
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 1: where we don't know what he is, where Monico is anyway, what.

796
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:43,040
Speaker 2: Are you doing?

797
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:45,719
Speaker 1: You just want an oscar, You've you've got everything.

798
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:48,560
Speaker 2: Why are you doing this to me?

799
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:52,279
Speaker 1: Why? Yeah, exactly, And she turned and looked in dead

800
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:54,560
Speaker 1: in the eye and said, I've never been a princess.

801
00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:58,319
Speaker 2: Yeah. He was like, they'll do it.

802
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:02,360
Speaker 1: And then hear the story about this almost seems like

803
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 1: something that one of our old colleagues, that people would

804
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:07,719
Speaker 1: have written about. This might have been where I heard it.

805
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:11,719
Speaker 1: Liz McNeil was very into like the Kennedys and Grace.

806
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 1: American Royalty basically saw something about how because Grace Kelly

807
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:18,960
Speaker 1: died in the early eighties in a car accident because

808
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:24,040
Speaker 1: the driving around those really treacherous roads in the hills

809
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:27,920
Speaker 1: of Monaco over the seaside, and her car went over

810
00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:30,800
Speaker 1: one of the bends and just went over, and Grace

811
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:33,680
Speaker 1: Kelly died. And the story was that she was in

812
00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:36,919
Speaker 1: the car with her daughter and the daughter survived, and

813
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:40,360
Speaker 1: the story was that the daughter was actually driving, but

814
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:44,320
Speaker 1: to kind of smooth things over afterwards, the official record

815
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:47,880
Speaker 1: is that Grace Kelly was driving herself, but there's a

816
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:49,719
Speaker 1: story out there that her daughter was actually the one

817
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:51,839
Speaker 1: at fault. Have you heard anything about this? You hear

818
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:52,200
Speaker 1: about this?

819
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:56,279
Speaker 2: Have you guys heard about this? I have not. That

820
00:45:56,360 --> 00:46:00,080
Speaker 2: makes it funny but also still tragic. Why does it

821
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:02,760
Speaker 2: it's funny? I mean because her daughter was younger.

822
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:06,000
Speaker 1: Her daughter was probably like, I don't know, twenties.

823
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:08,080
Speaker 2: Oh, she was in there. I thought it was like

824
00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:14,440
Speaker 2: a toddler. No oh oh no, So that's just very sad. Now, yeah, no,

825
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 2: I thought if it would be funny, like.

826
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:20,520
Speaker 1: Talking about, hey, you want to drive to put the car, yeah,

827
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:24,080
Speaker 1: I'll run these like horrifying bendy, windy roads and the

828
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 1: cliffs of Monaco.

829
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:29,360
Speaker 2: I don't know. I thought, because people did stupid back then.

830
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:31,439
Speaker 1: I don't know, man, Holly would be a princess. Yeah, okay,

831
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:33,120
Speaker 1: I guess her track record's not great.

832
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:35,960
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know. They were also drinking three martinis

833
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 2: at lunch. I didn't think it would be that big

834
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:39,920
Speaker 2: of a stretch to have her be like, let's let

835
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:48,680
Speaker 2: this toddler take the wheel. That'll be fun, you know, right. No, okay, no,

836
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:54,439
Speaker 2: that's now, that's very sad, you know, man, children, Yeah,

837
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 2: you give them the best years in life and then

838
00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:59,680
Speaker 2: they kill you in a car God willing.

839
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:03,319
Speaker 1: So Liz Taylor, who ended up getting Grace Kelly's role

840
00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:07,160
Speaker 1: three months after her husband's death in this fiery plane

841
00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:09,760
Speaker 1: crash in the plane that bore her name, but Lucky

842
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:12,760
Speaker 1: Lise Liz Taylor fell in love with her late husband's

843
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:16,920
Speaker 1: best friend, the singer Eddie Fisher, which I guess in

844
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:19,680
Speaker 1: a way is like kind of a relatively common way

845
00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:22,360
Speaker 1: of dealing with grief, because didn't Jack Kennedy and RFK

846
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:25,600
Speaker 1: have an affair in the wake of the assassination, like

847
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:27,280
Speaker 1: drawn together by grief?

848
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:29,720
Speaker 2: Jesus, I didn't know that that kind of pisses.

849
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:32,200
Speaker 1: Me off elaborate. In what way does that piss you off?

850
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:37,840
Speaker 2: I don't know. I expected one. Fuck Boston gonna be

851
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:41,600
Speaker 2: a little bit more fun, you know, responsible to his brother.

852
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:43,080
Speaker 1: I mean they shared Marylyn.

853
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:46,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I was gonna say. I guess they had

854
00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:51,800
Speaker 2: an advanced theory, non traditional theory of relationships.

855
00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:55,400
Speaker 1: So Liz Taylor starts to have an affair with her

856
00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:58,520
Speaker 1: now dead husband's best friend, Eddie Fisher, the singer.

857
00:47:58,719 --> 00:47:59,640
Speaker 2: I just don't love that.

858
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:02,400
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't love that either. You know

859
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:05,080
Speaker 1: who really didn't love that Eddie Fisher's wife at the time,

860
00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:09,239
Speaker 1: Debbie Reynolds. She really didn't like that. Eddie Fisher and

861
00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:13,839
Speaker 1: Debbie Reynolds. Their union produced Carrie Fisher. Famously, this scandal

862
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:17,960
Speaker 1: of Eddie Fisher leaving his wife, the Hollywood sweetheart, Debbie Reynolds,

863
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:23,560
Speaker 1: for Liz Taylor fallout was huge. Hilariously, the public sympathies

864
00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:26,000
Speaker 1: were with Liz because she just lost her husband and

865
00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:29,360
Speaker 1: was very brave. So everybody turned on any Fisher.

866
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:32,800
Speaker 2: They were like, she she deserved this, yeah.

867
00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:35,799
Speaker 1: Basically, and Eddie Fisher was the ones whose career was

868
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:36,600
Speaker 1: totally ruined.

869
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:38,680
Speaker 2: It never recovered well. That's good.

870
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:41,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Liz was married to Eddie Fisher

871
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:45,360
Speaker 1: when she began her affair with co star Richard Burton

872
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:49,719
Speaker 1: on the set of Cleopatra was Cleopatra just a few

873
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:53,000
Speaker 1: years later in nineteen sixty three. They were not subtle

874
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:56,960
Speaker 1: about this on set affair. During love scenes, director Joemika

875
00:48:57,000 --> 00:49:00,279
Speaker 1: Witz was forced to yell cut several times to get

876
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:01,720
Speaker 1: them to stop kissing.

877
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:06,120
Speaker 2: Which is, yeah, that's like French Force business. Yeah's some

878
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:10,800
Speaker 2: future hour stuff like come on guys. Yeah. Uh man.

879
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:14,840
Speaker 2: Have you ever read like Richard Burton writing about diary?

880
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:19,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, all they're amazing. Oh his note, Liz and Dick

881
00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:23,840
Speaker 1: famously split twice. They were married twice. I think the

882
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:26,400
Speaker 1: second time they were married only lasted a year. His

883
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:32,480
Speaker 1: like final goodbye letter, which is short to Liz, is amazing.

884
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:34,560
Speaker 1: I'd like to read it. It's very short. I'd like

885
00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:35,439
Speaker 1: to read it right now.

886
00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:35,880
Speaker 2: Please.

887
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:39,880
Speaker 1: June twenty fifth, nineteen seventy three. You're off. By God.

888
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:42,400
Speaker 1: I can barely believe it, since I'm so unaccustomed to

889
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:45,640
Speaker 1: anybody leaving me. But reflectively, I wonder why nobody did

890
00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:48,640
Speaker 1: so before. All I care about, honest to God, is

891
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:50,919
Speaker 1: that you're happy, and I don't much care who you'll

892
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:53,759
Speaker 1: find happiness with, as long as he's a friendly bloke

893
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:56,200
Speaker 1: and treat you nice and kind. If he doesn't, I'll

894
00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:58,840
Speaker 1: come at him with a hammer and a clinker. God's

895
00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:00,799
Speaker 1: I may be on the sparrow, but my eye will

896
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:04,719
Speaker 1: always be on you. Never forget your strange virtues, Never

897
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:07,520
Speaker 1: forget the underneath that veneer of raucous language is a

898
00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:11,640
Speaker 1: remarkable and puritanical lady. Lady in all caps, I am

899
00:50:11,640 --> 00:50:13,920
Speaker 1: a smashing bore, And why you've stuck by me this

900
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:17,120
Speaker 1: long as an indication of your loyalty, I shall miss

901
00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:21,880
Speaker 1: you with passion and wild regret. Oh I lied to you.

902
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:23,759
Speaker 1: I think the timing of that's off. I think that's

903
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:26,440
Speaker 1: actually written after the first divorce and then they did

904
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:27,319
Speaker 1: get back together, and.

905
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:29,239
Speaker 2: That's kind of like actually heartbreaking.

906
00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:34,840
Speaker 1: Oh extremely, I had a hard time reading that. No, yeah, yeah, man, Yeah.

907
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:38,879
Speaker 1: I love Richard Burden. There's a great interview with him.

908
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:42,319
Speaker 1: It's either on Dick Caviot or Michael Parkinson, which is

909
00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:45,439
Speaker 1: like the British equivalent of Dick Cavit. I mean, they're

910
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:48,040
Speaker 1: both great, and they're both totally worth your time and

911
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:56,080
Speaker 1: He speaks remarkably movingly about substance abuse and about how

912
00:50:56,600 --> 00:50:59,000
Speaker 1: it was described to him by someone, or maybe it

913
00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:01,440
Speaker 1: was his own analogy about how being an alcoholic is

914
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:04,680
Speaker 1: like having a boxer in the shadows every day, and

915
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:06,920
Speaker 1: every day you know that you put your head on

916
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:09,920
Speaker 1: your pillow and you haven't had a drink. You've evaded

917
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:12,839
Speaker 1: that boxer one more more day. But the next day,

918
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:15,359
Speaker 1: if you're not vigilant, you're not careful, you might get

919
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:18,120
Speaker 1: you on the chin. And it's like is it's delivered

920
00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:21,800
Speaker 1: in like the Richard Burton dulcet Welsh tones and insane

921
00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:25,200
Speaker 1: voice and so beauty. I mean, it's really it's like

922
00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:28,920
Speaker 1: he's reciting Shakespeare. It's the most beautifully delivered.

923
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:33,560
Speaker 3: Nobody quite knows which drink it is that takes him

924
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:36,560
Speaker 3: over the edge of being merely a social or haughty,

925
00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:43,600
Speaker 3: laughing drinker into a morose, hungover, wretched creature shakes and

926
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:49,600
Speaker 3: creaks and sweats and has nightmares. And it's always November

927
00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:52,120
Speaker 3: and it's raining, and it's three o'clock in the morning

928
00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:55,200
Speaker 3: and there's nowhere to go, and you reach out for

929
00:51:55,239 --> 00:51:59,080
Speaker 3: a cigarette and smoke and think of all the horrible

930
00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:01,240
Speaker 3: things you've done in your life, and all the shame

931
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:04,840
Speaker 3: you all the shames you endured and suffered, and the

932
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:07,200
Speaker 3: shame you gave other people, and the well, all the

933
00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:11,120
Speaker 3: wrongs you've done other people. I don't know whether alcoholics

934
00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:13,520
Speaker 3: can put it quite as eloquently as that usually they

935
00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:15,640
Speaker 3: c They just say, I just stared out of a

936
00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:23,600
Speaker 3: window for two years nothing and it is, I believe me. Uh,

937
00:52:23,640 --> 00:52:26,520
Speaker 3: the question of uh being an alcoholic, I'm not quite

938
00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:28,359
Speaker 3: sure that I am one, But if I'm not one,

939
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:32,040
Speaker 3: I'm very near, very right on the edge of being one.

940
00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:35,239
Speaker 3: Duto what it is no laughing matter. It is not

941
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:39,120
Speaker 3: a laughing matter. Uh. Alcoholism is is a dreadful disease.

942
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:43,360
Speaker 3: And my sympathy for I believe that it's something like

943
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:51,560
Speaker 3: fifteen million Americans alone who are who are alcoholics, and

944
00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:54,880
Speaker 3: my sympathy for them and my affection for them is profound.

945
00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:58,279
Speaker 3: They come up to me, uh, you know, as ah

946
00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:03,080
Speaker 3: as being a representative figure this dreadful disease. And and

947
00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:05,759
Speaker 3: one of the one of the things they love to

948
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:08,239
Speaker 3: do is to tell stories about what they got up

949
00:53:08,239 --> 00:53:12,160
Speaker 3: to when they were drunk. And I listened and I laugh,

950
00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:16,000
Speaker 3: and they genuinely found these some of the stories. But

951
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:18,840
Speaker 3: it is a tragic disease and a a dreadful one. No,

952
00:53:19,040 --> 00:53:22,960
Speaker 3: I can't say that I've beaten it, because as Jimmy Breslin,

953
00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:26,400
Speaker 3: who was a dear friend of mine, wrote me a

954
00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:31,080
Speaker 3: a short but very eloquent letter once some years ago,

955
00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:34,359
Speaker 3: when I was in trouble with drink, and he said,

956
00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:37,680
Speaker 3: don't forget the drink. And he used the an the

957
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:41,560
Speaker 3: in the analogy of a boxing match, and that you're

958
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:48,480
Speaker 3: always fighting, You're always fighting, and the other fella is booze,

959
00:53:49,160 --> 00:53:52,480
Speaker 3: and you evade him, you evade him, but one of

960
00:53:52,520 --> 00:53:54,759
Speaker 3: these days, unless you're careful, he's gonna nail you right

961
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:57,200
Speaker 3: on the chin, and down you go. So it's a

962
00:53:57,239 --> 00:53:59,200
Speaker 3: continual fight. Every day.

963
00:53:59,280 --> 00:53:59,759
Speaker 2: It's a fight.

964
00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:02,879
Speaker 3: When you get through the day and you finally put

965
00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:05,279
Speaker 3: your head on the pillow when you sleep, you say,

966
00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:09,719
Speaker 3: I've beaten that boxer phone. And yet another day the

967
00:54:09,719 --> 00:54:11,560
Speaker 3: other day. And so for the rest of your life

968
00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:16,680
Speaker 3: you are stuck with that shadowy figure, always always coming

969
00:54:16,719 --> 00:54:18,160
Speaker 3: at you, always coming at you.

970
00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:22,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's incredible. I love Richard Burton. I think he's

971
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:25,040
Speaker 1: actually one of my favorite actors. I remember my my

972
00:54:25,120 --> 00:54:28,960
Speaker 1: mom and dad saw Lucien Dick in the They must

973
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:30,920
Speaker 1: have retained an okay relationship because I think that they

974
00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:34,440
Speaker 1: did theatrical productions together in the early eighties just before

975
00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:38,000
Speaker 1: Richard died. Private Lives, I think was the play they

976
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:40,399
Speaker 1: were doing. It was Private Lives. I remember my dad said, Yeah,

977
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:42,799
Speaker 1: I saw Richard Burton in movies and I thought he

978
00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:44,799
Speaker 1: was just you know, I wasn't all that impressed with him.

979
00:54:44,840 --> 00:54:46,640
Speaker 1: I thought it was just one of those, you know,

980
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:49,560
Speaker 1: plumby English actors of the fifties and sixties. But then

981
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:51,840
Speaker 1: I saw him on stage and that man was a bull.

982
00:54:52,080 --> 00:54:55,520
Speaker 1: He was so powerful. There was just so much energy

983
00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:58,719
Speaker 1: coming off of him. Hell yeah, yeah, he said it

984
00:54:58,760 --> 00:54:59,280
Speaker 1: was amazing.

985
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:04,120
Speaker 2: Lot of it was gin No. I mean, we both

986
00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:06,399
Speaker 2: we both have read Hell Raisers, which is a book

987
00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:12,640
Speaker 2: that we frequently recommend to to folks about really like

988
00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:18,040
Speaker 2: five dudes, and Liz Taylor features her association hard.

989
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:20,360
Speaker 1: Living generally English.

990
00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:25,760
Speaker 2: Right, it's yeah, it's Ollie Oliver Reid who Peter O'Toole,

991
00:55:26,719 --> 00:55:30,640
Speaker 2: Richard Burton and Richard Harris, Richard Harris.

992
00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:32,759
Speaker 1: And Sean Connery and Richard and Michael Kane kind of.

993
00:55:32,680 --> 00:55:36,719
Speaker 2: Make cameos, Yes, they make appearances, but man, yeah, and

994
00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:38,600
Speaker 2: I think that's when Like I think at one point

995
00:55:38,640 --> 00:55:41,560
Speaker 2: someone talked about like Liz having a wooden leg because

996
00:55:41,600 --> 00:55:44,840
Speaker 2: when she got she went out drinking with these guys.

997
00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:46,760
Speaker 2: It was like they didn't know where she was putting

998
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:49,239
Speaker 2: it away because she was such a petite woman. But

999
00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:52,600
Speaker 2: could like you know, slam them back with the best

1000
00:55:52,600 --> 00:55:56,520
Speaker 2: of them. Yes, yes, Oh did you what did you

1001
00:55:56,560 --> 00:55:59,320
Speaker 2: want to talk about? The crystallized alcohol?

1002
00:55:59,719 --> 00:56:01,920
Speaker 1: I M not sure if I remember this.

1003
00:56:02,840 --> 00:56:05,200
Speaker 2: Oh well, that was a thing with Richard Burton where

1004
00:56:05,239 --> 00:56:09,080
Speaker 2: they I mean, like Welsh people are built different, like

1005
00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:16,480
Speaker 2: they they they sustain alcohol damage in marvelous ways. He did,

1006
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:19,279
Speaker 2: and he died at like fifty three. I say, well,

1007
00:56:19,280 --> 00:56:21,600
Speaker 2: but that's what I'm talking about. When at one point

1008
00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:24,200
Speaker 2: they had they did surgery on his back and they

1009
00:56:24,360 --> 00:56:30,920
Speaker 2: found that his body had, for whatever reason, begun crystallizing

1010
00:56:31,040 --> 00:56:36,560
Speaker 2: alcohol into his spine. Oh wow, So like when they

1011
00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:39,200
Speaker 2: went and looked at his back, the vertebrae and all

1012
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:42,640
Speaker 2: of this were like coated with crystallized alcohol, which is

1013
00:56:42,680 --> 00:56:46,040
Speaker 2: not a thing that I I think I've ever heard

1014
00:56:46,160 --> 00:56:49,480
Speaker 2: before or since actually as a as a thing that

1015
00:56:49,560 --> 00:56:54,719
Speaker 2: can happen to you or a way to live. But yeah,

1016
00:56:54,800 --> 00:56:57,480
Speaker 2: I mean I guess his liver just got tired of

1017
00:56:57,520 --> 00:57:00,160
Speaker 2: it and just started offloading it to his spinal.

1018
00:56:59,840 --> 00:57:02,799
Speaker 1: Cal He must have been an excruciating pain, which you

1019
00:57:02,840 --> 00:57:04,480
Speaker 1: might have been I think actually.

1020
00:57:04,160 --> 00:57:07,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, yeah yeah, which he then drank through right,

1021
00:57:07,440 --> 00:57:11,239
Speaker 2: and it was a vicious cycle, you understand.

1022
00:57:11,600 --> 00:57:15,640
Speaker 1: Yes, I have a slightly happier story to get us

1023
00:57:15,640 --> 00:57:18,160
Speaker 1: out of this. I actually do find the story very touching.

1024
00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:21,439
Speaker 1: I think hit me, yeah, yeah, unless you have more

1025
00:57:21,560 --> 00:57:27,680
Speaker 1: about Richard Burton's alcoholism or just Dick dick in anyway.

1026
00:57:29,200 --> 00:57:30,480
Speaker 2: About dick in any way?

1027
00:57:30,760 --> 00:57:35,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, Jordan, his diaries are amazing, Yes they are.

1028
00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:37,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, but regale us. Yes.

1029
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:40,800
Speaker 1: The other side of the of the Elizabeth Taylor, Eddie

1030
00:57:40,800 --> 00:57:45,040
Speaker 1: Fisher love Triangles. Debbie Reynolds. She famously said that the

1031
00:57:45,080 --> 00:57:48,760
Speaker 1: two hardest things she ever did were childbirth and making singing.

1032
00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:50,880
Speaker 2: In the rain. But just a great quote.

1033
00:57:51,680 --> 00:57:54,080
Speaker 1: And this is because she was cast as a dancer

1034
00:57:54,160 --> 00:57:57,560
Speaker 1: in a movie starring and directed by the great Gene Kelly,

1035
00:57:57,560 --> 00:57:59,520
Speaker 1: one of the greatest dances of all time, and she

1036
00:57:59,600 --> 00:58:03,320
Speaker 1: herself didn't know how to dance. Yeah, when she was

1037
00:58:03,360 --> 00:58:06,680
Speaker 1: cast at age nineteen. She had no experience dancing or singing,

1038
00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:10,520
Speaker 1: and Jean Kelly was not happy about this. But enemy

1039
00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:14,400
Speaker 1: of the Pod Louis B. Mayer, head of MGM, insisted

1040
00:58:14,440 --> 00:58:17,400
Speaker 1: on casting Debbie Reynolds for reasons that I can only

1041
00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:21,680
Speaker 1: assume more nefarious. Yeah, she was given three months to quote,

1042
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:22,800
Speaker 1: learn to dance.

1043
00:58:24,440 --> 00:58:27,760
Speaker 2: But the musical numbers in this film are hard. Yeah,

1044
00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:32,520
Speaker 2: They're legendarily complex and insane.

1045
00:58:31,440 --> 00:58:34,640
Speaker 1: And they were filmed in long takes, so there was

1046
00:58:34,720 --> 00:58:38,480
Speaker 1: really no room for any error here. And Jean Kelly

1047
00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:42,200
Speaker 1: was running the chute like a military campaign. Like Donald O'Connor.

1048
00:58:42,360 --> 00:58:44,120
Speaker 1: I forget who he plays in the movie. He's like

1049
00:58:44,160 --> 00:58:46,760
Speaker 1: the second banana guy. He does the solo number, make

1050
00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:49,560
Speaker 1: him laugh, You know that guy. He had like one

1051
00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:52,920
Speaker 1: hundred and four degree fever when he shot that helly

1052
00:58:53,040 --> 00:58:55,320
Speaker 1: and it was like taken out of bed rest to

1053
00:58:55,360 --> 00:58:57,920
Speaker 1: go do it and then returned to bed rest. So

1054
00:58:58,000 --> 00:59:00,880
Speaker 1: this was not an easy shoot. And Debbie wrote in

1055
00:59:00,920 --> 00:59:03,800
Speaker 1: her memoir, I was dancing eight hours a day, non stop.

1056
00:59:04,320 --> 00:59:06,640
Speaker 1: She was so frustrated. At one point she threw her

1057
00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:09,800
Speaker 1: tap shoes at the mirror in the dance studio, shattering

1058
00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:13,800
Speaker 1: it oh, she would spend all her studio time holding

1059
00:59:13,840 --> 00:59:17,320
Speaker 1: back tears, and then she wrote, one day, I was

1060
00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:21,440
Speaker 1: lying under the piano sobbing, when I heard a voice ask,

1061
00:59:21,600 --> 00:59:25,160
Speaker 1: why are you crying? She replied, I feel like I'm

1062
00:59:25,200 --> 00:59:25,800
Speaker 1: going to die.

1063
00:59:26,080 --> 00:59:28,160
Speaker 2: It's so hard. I can't.

1064
00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:32,320
Speaker 1: I can't. And this soothing voice gently calmed her down

1065
00:59:32,360 --> 00:59:34,440
Speaker 1: and kind of coaxed her out from under the piano.

1066
00:59:34,960 --> 00:59:38,560
Speaker 1: And she looked up and it was Fred Astare and

1067
00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:40,680
Speaker 1: he admitted to her, you know, her eyes got wide

1068
00:59:40,760 --> 00:59:42,280
Speaker 1: as soon as she saw who it was, and he

1069
00:59:42,320 --> 00:59:46,040
Speaker 1: admitted to her that he often got frustrated himself during rehearsals,

1070
00:59:46,080 --> 00:59:48,320
Speaker 1: and to prove it, he invited her to attend to

1071
00:59:48,360 --> 00:59:50,360
Speaker 1: one that he was about to have later that afternoon

1072
00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:52,440
Speaker 1: for a movie he was working on called Royal Wedding.

1073
00:59:53,160 --> 00:59:56,480
Speaker 1: And she saw how hard he worked and how you know,

1074
00:59:56,520 --> 00:59:58,200
Speaker 1: it wasn't as easy as he made it look on

1075
00:59:58,240 --> 01:00:03,080
Speaker 1: the screen. And she left that day feeling much less alone.

1076
01:00:03,200 --> 01:00:05,760
Speaker 1: And she saw how his hard work paid off and

1077
01:00:05,760 --> 01:00:07,640
Speaker 1: how her hard work was going to pay off too.

1078
01:00:08,000 --> 01:00:08,600
Speaker 1: I love that.

1079
01:00:08,760 --> 01:00:11,520
Speaker 2: Isn't that great? It is very cute? And then no

1080
01:00:11,560 --> 01:00:13,360
Speaker 2: one remembered her for her dancing.

1081
01:00:15,600 --> 01:00:21,040
Speaker 1: That's that's true. Actually, right, he's not known as a hoofer. Yeah, no,

1082
01:00:21,840 --> 01:00:23,520
Speaker 1: she did it. She did it, damn it.

1083
01:00:24,200 --> 01:00:26,480
Speaker 2: That's true, and no one can take that away from her.

1084
01:00:26,760 --> 01:00:30,400
Speaker 2: Yes except me, who's doing it now.

1085
01:00:30,760 --> 01:00:35,800
Speaker 1: Speaking of big stars who were reduced to hiding under

1086
01:00:35,840 --> 01:00:39,680
Speaker 1: things during their dark hour, Conin O'Brien talked about how

1087
01:00:39,680 --> 01:00:43,120
Speaker 1: his personal low when he first started his talk show.

1088
01:00:43,400 --> 01:00:46,120
Speaker 1: Reviews were absolutely terrible, and he went on Charlie Rose

1089
01:00:46,120 --> 01:00:48,600
Speaker 1: to be interviewed, and Charlie Rose insisted on reading this

1090
01:00:48,840 --> 01:00:52,400
Speaker 1: savage review from Washington Post TV critic Tom Shales, who

1091
01:00:52,440 --> 01:00:54,800
Speaker 1: was like the biggest TV critic in the country at

1092
01:00:54,800 --> 01:00:57,680
Speaker 1: the time, and a bad review from him could very

1093
01:00:57,720 --> 01:01:00,760
Speaker 1: easily spell the end of your show. And so Conan

1094
01:01:01,520 --> 01:01:04,880
Speaker 1: leaves Charlie Rose's studio, gets in the car back to

1095
01:01:04,920 --> 01:01:08,040
Speaker 1: his own office at thirty Rock. He was so depressed

1096
01:01:08,080 --> 01:01:11,760
Speaker 1: that he just got under his desk. He got back

1097
01:01:11,800 --> 01:01:15,120
Speaker 1: to his office and just hit there until somebody and

1098
01:01:15,200 --> 01:01:17,720
Speaker 1: his staff came in and just saw his legs poking out,

1099
01:01:18,280 --> 01:01:23,080
Speaker 1: and they're like, okay, It's like, yeah, I'm just gonna

1100
01:01:23,080 --> 01:01:25,760
Speaker 1: sit here. I'm just gonna sit here for a while.

1101
01:01:26,600 --> 01:01:27,080
Speaker 2: And he did.

1102
01:01:27,120 --> 01:01:28,800
Speaker 1: He said that was his personal low.

1103
01:01:29,080 --> 01:01:31,640
Speaker 2: Is that move. I'm just gonna just gonna sit here

1104
01:01:31,680 --> 01:01:36,240
Speaker 2: for a while. See what happens. Yeah, the thing.

1105
01:01:36,720 --> 01:01:39,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh my god, I just did I just pull

1106
01:01:39,160 --> 01:01:40,480
Speaker 1: a thing reference before you did?

1107
01:01:40,680 --> 01:01:46,480
Speaker 2: You did? Yeah? Yeah, yeah. Man. All those pictures of

1108
01:01:47,360 --> 01:01:51,320
Speaker 2: John Carpenter getting his Hollywood Walk of Fame star, Oh

1109
01:01:51,400 --> 01:01:53,160
Speaker 2: my god, dude, you gotta google. No, like the most

1110
01:01:53,160 --> 01:01:59,240
Speaker 2: heartwarming thing. It's like it's Heath David and Kurt Russell

1111
01:02:00,600 --> 01:02:05,160
Speaker 2: and uh one of the effects guys from Greg Nicotero,

1112
01:02:06,120 --> 01:02:07,720
Speaker 2: and they're just lords.

1113
01:02:08,200 --> 01:02:09,200
Speaker 1: He's doing ones.

1114
01:02:09,400 --> 01:02:11,640
Speaker 2: But like also the other pictures in there are just

1115
01:02:11,680 --> 01:02:15,000
Speaker 2: like it's like Keith David and Kurt Russell like beaming

1116
01:02:15,200 --> 01:02:18,040
Speaker 2: at each other and they're just all, oh my god,

1117
01:02:18,080 --> 01:02:20,640
Speaker 2: it killed me. And I got into this whole thing

1118
01:02:20,640 --> 01:02:22,840
Speaker 2: about like, you know, it just sucks that Kurt Russell's

1119
01:02:22,840 --> 01:02:26,920
Speaker 2: a Republican because and this was like news to people.

1120
01:02:28,160 --> 01:02:31,240
Speaker 2: But no, I think that well, I think that John

1121
01:02:31,280 --> 01:02:33,760
Speaker 2: Carpenter quote that I always go off of is like

1122
01:02:34,160 --> 01:02:36,720
Speaker 2: he's referred to him. He's like stock quote about Kurt

1123
01:02:36,960 --> 01:02:41,919
Speaker 2: Is like he's to the right of Genghis Khan, which

1124
01:02:41,960 --> 01:02:46,320
Speaker 2: is just something I've always taken with me up up up,

1125
01:02:46,400 --> 01:02:48,160
Speaker 2: up up up. How about this one? How about this

1126
01:02:48,200 --> 01:02:52,400
Speaker 2: for you? Uh? Okay, So here's here's it. Here's something funny.

1127
01:02:53,040 --> 01:02:55,280
Speaker 2: We maybe obliquely mention this because we haven't done an

1128
01:02:55,280 --> 01:02:58,200
Speaker 2: episode on Blade Runner, but a big part of Blade

1129
01:02:58,240 --> 01:03:01,880
Speaker 2: Runner lore is that Got was kind of an asshole,

1130
01:03:02,040 --> 01:03:06,680
Speaker 2: and particularly with American crews who were not, you know,

1131
01:03:06,840 --> 01:03:10,320
Speaker 2: serbian as the yeah basically I mean having like unions,

1132
01:03:10,360 --> 01:03:13,959
Speaker 2: and they would be like, yeah, no time for union break,

1133
01:03:14,240 --> 01:03:18,000
Speaker 2: Like we're not doing that. Go away, you lie me,

1134
01:03:18,480 --> 01:03:22,440
Speaker 2: you know, And he gave some interview in the press

1135
01:03:22,480 --> 01:03:24,400
Speaker 2: that was that was like, well, you know, I'm just

1136
01:03:24,800 --> 01:03:28,080
Speaker 2: I just much prefer asking or working with British crews

1137
01:03:28,120 --> 01:03:30,439
Speaker 2: who I'll ask for something and they'll just say yes

1138
01:03:30,480 --> 01:03:34,000
Speaker 2: Governor instead of instead of giving me flack. And so

1139
01:03:34,080 --> 01:03:37,040
Speaker 2: the rest of the crew had t shirts made up

1140
01:03:37,080 --> 01:03:40,120
Speaker 2: that all said yes Governor and started wearing them on

1141
01:03:40,200 --> 01:03:45,120
Speaker 2: set passive aggressively, which I love. But here's I'm now

1142
01:03:45,160 --> 01:03:48,800
Speaker 2: reading it from the other side of the coin. James Cameron, Oh,

1143
01:03:48,880 --> 01:03:55,120
Speaker 2: Jimmy Cams when he was shooting aliens in England at

1144
01:03:55,200 --> 01:04:00,160
Speaker 2: Pinmewood Studios, like the center of British filming. They were

1145
01:04:00,240 --> 01:04:04,000
Speaker 2: these some of the crew members Pinewood Suitio has had

1146
01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:06,600
Speaker 2: a system where you basically had to use their crew members,

1147
01:04:07,280 --> 01:04:10,840
Speaker 2: and James Cameron was like pushing these people to twelve

1148
01:04:10,880 --> 01:04:17,640
Speaker 2: to fourteen hours day and they started clashing with James

1149
01:04:17,640 --> 01:04:21,840
Speaker 2: Cameron and his producer Gayle Ann Heard and Stan Winston

1150
01:04:22,480 --> 01:04:26,360
Speaker 2: both remember on the DVD commentary that actually the leader

1151
01:04:26,680 --> 01:04:30,720
Speaker 2: quote unquote of this quote unquote, Rebellion was the first

1152
01:04:30,760 --> 01:04:34,440
Speaker 2: assistant director. He apparently felt that he could, you know,

1153
01:04:34,560 --> 01:04:37,680
Speaker 2: direct the movie better than James Cameron, who at the

1154
01:04:37,680 --> 01:04:42,360
Speaker 2: time had only done like Kirana Part two and The Terminator,

1155
01:04:44,080 --> 01:04:48,200
Speaker 2: and so he was like outwardly to James Cameron and

1156
01:04:48,240 --> 01:04:53,040
Speaker 2: he would call him governor and roll his eyes. And

1157
01:04:53,080 --> 01:04:59,960
Speaker 2: then that guy was fired because James Cameron doesn't play.

1158
01:05:01,280 --> 01:05:04,320
Speaker 2: What happened to that man, I don't know he was.

1159
01:05:04,480 --> 01:05:06,360
Speaker 2: He's been written out of history.

1160
01:05:06,800 --> 01:05:08,680
Speaker 1: One of the bodies in Titanic.

1161
01:05:09,200 --> 01:05:10,200
Speaker 2: Yeah maybe no.

1162
01:05:10,400 --> 01:05:10,520
Speaker 1: Uh.

1163
01:05:11,600 --> 01:05:14,480
Speaker 2: You know what's funny about that movie is that that

1164
01:05:14,520 --> 01:05:19,919
Speaker 2: producer Gayle Anne Herd, who I think was dating Jim

1165
01:05:19,960 --> 01:05:26,000
Speaker 2: at the times as he has he frequently does, she

1166
01:05:26,320 --> 01:05:29,080
Speaker 2: was like a full on, like not a gun nut,

1167
01:05:29,440 --> 01:05:33,600
Speaker 2: but like a gun enthusiast, And so whenever anyone is

1168
01:05:33,640 --> 01:05:38,080
Speaker 2: like handling guns in that movie, that's a woman character

1169
01:05:38,360 --> 01:05:43,600
Speaker 2: who is not as proficient with manipulating a firearm, that's

1170
01:05:43,680 --> 01:05:46,720
Speaker 2: this woman, Gayle Anne Herd's hands. So like anytime there's

1171
01:05:46,720 --> 01:05:49,280
Speaker 2: a close up of like one of the female Space

1172
01:05:49,320 --> 01:05:54,200
Speaker 2: Marines or Ripley like manipulating a handgun, it's probably the

1173
01:05:54,240 --> 01:05:56,720
Speaker 2: producer of this movie, Gayle Ane Herd, who was actually

1174
01:05:56,800 --> 01:06:00,400
Speaker 2: just super into guns and went shooting all the time. La.

1175
01:06:00,760 --> 01:06:02,720
Speaker 1: You know the story about Robert Patrick because he was

1176
01:06:02,720 --> 01:06:06,040
Speaker 1: supposed to be a robot and James Cameron's direction was,

1177
01:06:06,240 --> 01:06:09,800
Speaker 1: you know, don't blink. Robots don't blink. Yeah, so Robert

1178
01:06:09,800 --> 01:06:12,160
Speaker 1: Patrick did all this gun training so that he could

1179
01:06:12,560 --> 01:06:15,440
Speaker 1: fire a gun without blinking, which is insane.

1180
01:06:15,640 --> 01:06:17,840
Speaker 2: Yeah. I remember one of the first like movie magic

1181
01:06:17,880 --> 01:06:20,280
Speaker 2: books I ever read was like the making of Terminator two,

1182
01:06:20,760 --> 01:06:24,840
Speaker 2: and it is really I mean, just I mean it's

1183
01:06:24,880 --> 01:06:27,360
Speaker 2: bonkers because it's a James Cameron movie, right, and they

1184
01:06:27,400 --> 01:06:31,560
Speaker 2: like blew up all this. They were chasing semi trucks

1185
01:06:31,800 --> 01:06:35,280
Speaker 2: with helicopters down like the La Freeway. But just like

1186
01:06:36,160 --> 01:06:40,360
Speaker 2: how scary Robert Patrick was on set, like he just

1187
01:06:40,520 --> 01:06:44,440
Speaker 2: kind of came on with this like conception of the

1188
01:06:44,640 --> 01:06:48,480
Speaker 2: of the T one thousand is this like very fluid

1189
01:06:48,800 --> 01:06:52,440
Speaker 2: but still kind of formal physicality. And I think he

1190
01:06:52,520 --> 01:06:56,280
Speaker 2: talked about like always wanting his head to move first

1191
01:06:56,320 --> 01:06:58,760
Speaker 2: and then his body to like follow along with it

1192
01:06:59,240 --> 01:07:02,280
Speaker 2: because it because it was how he'd like observed certain

1193
01:07:02,320 --> 01:07:06,400
Speaker 2: Birds of Prey moving, And then talking about how he

1194
01:07:06,920 --> 01:07:09,560
Speaker 2: got super because he knew that he had to run

1195
01:07:09,600 --> 01:07:12,480
Speaker 2: a lot for this movie and end up chasing cars,

1196
01:07:12,520 --> 01:07:15,640
Speaker 2: and he got like super into running and doing that

1197
01:07:15,680 --> 01:07:19,760
Speaker 2: like very distinctive like knife hands sprint that he does

1198
01:07:19,800 --> 01:07:23,200
Speaker 2: through this whole film, and his like walk where the

1199
01:07:23,400 --> 01:07:25,600
Speaker 2: arms are kind of bandied out to the side. But

1200
01:07:25,720 --> 01:07:28,200
Speaker 2: he had he was not really like a known actor,

1201
01:07:28,400 --> 01:07:33,280
Speaker 2: so just coming onto this set in character walking all

1202
01:07:33,320 --> 01:07:36,680
Speaker 2: weird and looking at people really weird and just like

1203
01:07:37,440 --> 01:07:41,720
Speaker 2: actively kind of creeping people out. But what a performance.

1204
01:07:42,600 --> 01:07:44,680
Speaker 2: Guy used to scare the shit out of me as

1205
01:07:44,680 --> 01:07:45,040
Speaker 2: a kid.

1206
01:07:45,240 --> 01:07:48,800
Speaker 1: Yes, you've just set me up in such an incredible

1207
01:07:48,840 --> 01:07:51,280
Speaker 1: way that it feels like we plan this well.

1208
01:07:51,320 --> 01:07:54,360
Speaker 2: I promise you folks, we didn't. No, No, I'm.

1209
01:07:54,320 --> 01:07:59,000
Speaker 1: From Birds of Prey to the birds. Ah ah, yes,

1210
01:07:59,080 --> 01:08:02,440
Speaker 1: we were talked about Grace Kelly earlier. She was famously

1211
01:08:02,480 --> 01:08:05,400
Speaker 1: off for Hitchcock's muse and when she retired from acting

1212
01:08:05,480 --> 01:08:09,440
Speaker 1: to go be a royal hitch needed he needed a

1213
01:08:09,520 --> 01:08:14,120
Speaker 1: new law. I guess Kim Novak wasn't cutting it after Virgo.

1214
01:08:14,160 --> 01:08:15,840
Speaker 2: I don't know. I'm not really sure why she.

1215
01:08:15,760 --> 01:08:18,600
Speaker 1: Didn't get that vaulted position in his life, but for

1216
01:08:18,640 --> 01:08:19,480
Speaker 1: whatever reason.

1217
01:08:19,240 --> 01:08:21,639
Speaker 2: She didn't Chief abuse e Yes.

1218
01:08:22,479 --> 01:08:25,720
Speaker 1: So Hitchcock was watching the Today Show one morning in

1219
01:08:25,800 --> 01:08:28,880
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty one when he saw a commercial for a

1220
01:08:28,920 --> 01:08:33,519
Speaker 1: diet soda called Sego starring a beautiful blonde woman named

1221
01:08:33,600 --> 01:08:38,880
Speaker 1: Tippy Hendron. Despite the fact that she had zero acting experience,

1222
01:08:39,439 --> 01:08:42,559
Speaker 1: hitch tracked her down and offered her a seven year

1223
01:08:42,600 --> 01:08:45,000
Speaker 1: exclusive contract. This was after he.

1224
01:08:45,080 --> 01:08:47,439
Speaker 2: Made Psycho, so this was he was a big deal.

1225
01:08:47,720 --> 01:08:49,920
Speaker 1: And yeah, you'd have our Benchcock Presents was on TV

1226
01:08:50,000 --> 01:08:51,920
Speaker 1: at this time. This would be like if you know

1227
01:08:52,280 --> 01:08:55,559
Speaker 1: Scorsese or somebody like just came out of like got

1228
01:08:55,600 --> 01:08:57,400
Speaker 1: somebody who's just done like a commercial.

1229
01:08:57,880 --> 01:08:59,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's horniness.

1230
01:09:00,160 --> 01:09:03,680
Speaker 1: Well yeah, certainly, yes, yes, yes, it was very unusual

1231
01:09:03,720 --> 01:09:05,280
Speaker 1: to be offered a seven year.

1232
01:09:05,120 --> 01:09:08,160
Speaker 2: Exclusive contract with no acting experience.

1233
01:09:08,760 --> 01:09:11,880
Speaker 1: According to Tippy, his mentorship became obsessive.

1234
01:09:12,439 --> 01:09:14,320
Speaker 2: He took complete control of her image.

1235
01:09:14,320 --> 01:09:18,439
Speaker 1: He dictated her wardrobe, hairstyles, and public appearances, and even

1236
01:09:18,520 --> 01:09:22,640
Speaker 1: had staff follow her to report on her behavior. Her

1237
01:09:22,680 --> 01:09:25,559
Speaker 1: first starring role was in nineteen sixty threes The Birds,

1238
01:09:26,560 --> 01:09:29,400
Speaker 1: and this is where things took a turn.

1239
01:09:29,880 --> 01:09:32,920
Speaker 2: I don't know how much you know about this some, but.

1240
01:09:33,520 --> 01:09:35,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, the scene where she's in the phone booth and

1241
01:09:35,520 --> 01:09:38,160
Speaker 1: the birds crash into it and break the glass. She

1242
01:09:38,240 --> 01:09:41,879
Speaker 1: got very real cuts and injuries from the shattered class.

1243
01:09:42,400 --> 01:09:45,040
Speaker 1: And another thing that was real the birds in the

1244
01:09:45,080 --> 01:09:46,840
Speaker 1: attic scene at the end of the movie where she's

1245
01:09:46,960 --> 01:09:48,080
Speaker 1: very nearly pecked to death.

1246
01:09:48,520 --> 01:09:49,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, she didn't know.

1247
01:09:49,520 --> 01:09:52,080
Speaker 1: That at the last minute, real birds were going to

1248
01:09:52,120 --> 01:09:52,880
Speaker 1: be thrown at her.

1249
01:09:53,479 --> 01:09:54,080
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1250
01:09:54,120 --> 01:09:56,160
Speaker 1: So the screams of fear were real, and a lot

1251
01:09:56,160 --> 01:09:59,320
Speaker 1: of the cuts were real as well. Because she was

1252
01:09:59,360 --> 01:10:02,679
Speaker 1: signed to an clusive contract with Hitch. In other words,

1253
01:10:02,760 --> 01:10:04,080
Speaker 1: she was hitched to Hitch.

1254
01:10:04,520 --> 01:10:04,800
Speaker 2: Thank you.

1255
01:10:06,320 --> 01:10:09,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, she was forced to work with him again. Although

1256
01:10:09,680 --> 01:10:12,759
Speaker 1: maybe given her inexperience, she didn't realize how uniquely horrible

1257
01:10:12,800 --> 01:10:15,519
Speaker 1: this was, but a funny feeling she probably did. She

1258
01:10:15,600 --> 01:10:18,800
Speaker 1: made the psychological thriller Marnie along with Sean Connery. Did

1259
01:10:18,800 --> 01:10:19,400
Speaker 1: you ever see that?

1260
01:10:19,640 --> 01:10:22,400
Speaker 2: I've don't seen Marni Now it's good, it's good. Uh.

1261
01:10:22,840 --> 01:10:26,040
Speaker 1: While making this movie that she rebuffed Hitchcock's advances because,

1262
01:10:26,080 --> 01:10:28,960
Speaker 1: of course came on all sorts of stories of him

1263
01:10:29,000 --> 01:10:30,759
Speaker 1: being horrible to her in limos.

1264
01:10:30,920 --> 01:10:31,719
Speaker 2: I think they like.

1265
01:10:32,439 --> 01:10:35,200
Speaker 1: Shared a limo to the set together or something. No, no,

1266
01:10:35,120 --> 01:10:39,000
Speaker 1: don't worry, I'll pick you up. Yeah. Yeah, she turned

1267
01:10:39,080 --> 01:10:42,439
Speaker 1: him down one too many times, and he allegedly vowed

1268
01:10:42,439 --> 01:10:45,559
Speaker 1: to ruin her career. He just stopped casting her, and

1269
01:10:45,600 --> 01:10:48,120
Speaker 1: because she was under contract to him, she had nowhere

1270
01:10:48,160 --> 01:10:51,639
Speaker 1: else to go, so she was effectively blacklisted from major

1271
01:10:51,680 --> 01:10:57,000
Speaker 1: studio work for many, many years. This is horrifying, And

1272
01:10:57,040 --> 01:10:59,760
Speaker 1: we'll come back to Tippy. But speaking of actresses, and

1273
01:10:59,800 --> 01:11:04,679
Speaker 1: I'm pleasant situations with birds, as I so often do, Kigel.

1274
01:11:05,120 --> 01:11:07,640
Speaker 1: Are you familiar with Michelle Pfeiffer's role as Catwoman and

1275
01:11:07,680 --> 01:11:08,519
Speaker 1: Batman Returns?

1276
01:11:08,760 --> 01:11:11,400
Speaker 2: Oh? Very much so. We recently saw that in a

1277
01:11:11,439 --> 01:11:16,519
Speaker 2: theater as like a real reissue. Yeah, and holy man,

1278
01:11:16,880 --> 01:11:20,120
Speaker 2: that woman was robbed of an oscar. And I don't

1279
01:11:20,120 --> 01:11:23,840
Speaker 2: know if it's just like you know, Tim Burton like

1280
01:11:24,000 --> 01:11:27,599
Speaker 2: filming her in his like weird Dutch angles and like

1281
01:11:27,720 --> 01:11:30,479
Speaker 2: whatever tone of that movie he told everyone to aim for.

1282
01:11:30,600 --> 01:11:37,360
Speaker 2: But she is like feral in a beautiful, horrifying way. Uh.

1283
01:11:37,640 --> 01:11:39,880
Speaker 2: And there's parts of that movie where she just looks

1284
01:11:39,960 --> 01:11:44,240
Speaker 2: like absolutely out of her mind and like smiling at

1285
01:11:44,280 --> 01:11:47,400
Speaker 2: the camera and stuff, And I'm just like, man, she

1286
01:11:47,560 --> 01:11:51,559
Speaker 2: actually like did deserve more acting recognition for that role.

1287
01:11:51,640 --> 01:11:56,640
Speaker 2: She's just really radiating, just channeling something special. But go on,

1288
01:11:57,000 --> 01:11:58,000
Speaker 2: what were you gonna say?

1289
01:11:58,080 --> 01:12:00,920
Speaker 1: Well, that is true. But also there's a scene where

1290
01:12:00,960 --> 01:12:04,799
Speaker 1: Catwoman threatens to swallow the penguin's live bird before releasing

1291
01:12:04,840 --> 01:12:05,559
Speaker 1: it from her mouth.

1292
01:12:05,840 --> 01:12:07,920
Speaker 2: That is the worst scene in the movie. That is

1293
01:12:08,000 --> 01:12:11,679
Speaker 2: that is like a series of like awful double entauendres

1294
01:12:11,720 --> 01:12:16,280
Speaker 2: that make no sense. I very much hate it, but continue.

1295
01:12:16,640 --> 01:12:20,160
Speaker 1: Tim Burton, who is a totally normal guy, admitted that

1296
01:12:20,240 --> 01:12:23,400
Speaker 1: this scene was done for real. He said, I don't

1297
01:12:23,400 --> 01:12:25,960
Speaker 1: think I've ever been so impressed. She had a live

1298
01:12:26,040 --> 01:12:28,599
Speaker 1: burd in her mouth while the camera was rolling. It

1299
01:12:28,640 --> 01:12:30,479
Speaker 1: was four or five seconds and then she let it

1300
01:12:30,520 --> 01:12:34,080
Speaker 1: fly out. It was before CGI, it was before digital.

1301
01:12:34,720 --> 01:12:36,320
Speaker 1: It was so quick. It seems like it was an

1302
01:12:36,320 --> 01:12:39,880
Speaker 1: effect but it was not. It's is that how COVID

1303
01:12:39,960 --> 01:12:40,919
Speaker 1: nineteen started?

1304
01:12:41,000 --> 01:12:41,080
Speaker 2: Like?

1305
01:12:41,560 --> 01:12:44,040
Speaker 1: Maybe, Yeah, that's really horrifying.

1306
01:12:44,520 --> 01:12:46,880
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, have you ever I think we know

1307
01:12:47,040 --> 01:12:49,519
Speaker 2: I haven't. Have you ever put a live bird in

1308
01:12:49,600 --> 01:12:51,000
Speaker 2: your mouth? No?

1309
01:12:51,160 --> 01:12:52,760
Speaker 1: I Joey, you ever?

1310
01:12:53,200 --> 01:12:56,559
Speaker 2: Yeah? Do you ever hang around men's locker rooms put

1311
01:12:56,600 --> 01:13:00,679
Speaker 2: a live burden mouth? Have you heard about Sean Young

1312
01:13:01,080 --> 01:13:03,760
Speaker 2: desperately wanting the role of Catwoman? Yes?

1313
01:13:03,920 --> 01:13:06,320
Speaker 1: But I love the story and I love how you

1314
01:13:06,360 --> 01:13:06,720
Speaker 1: tell it.

1315
01:13:07,280 --> 01:13:13,639
Speaker 2: I love this so much. Yeah. She was so intent

1316
01:13:13,760 --> 01:13:17,400
Speaker 2: on playing this role of cat Woman that not only

1317
01:13:17,439 --> 01:13:20,519
Speaker 2: did she appear on the short lived Joan Rivers Show

1318
01:13:20,840 --> 01:13:26,439
Speaker 2: in character as Catwoman and literally like begged Tim Burton

1319
01:13:26,520 --> 01:13:30,920
Speaker 2: to cast her, but she also stormed her way onto

1320
01:13:30,960 --> 01:13:34,880
Speaker 2: the Warner Brothers studio lot in this homemade catwoman suit

1321
01:13:35,000 --> 01:13:38,080
Speaker 2: and like made her way into an office to like

1322
01:13:38,600 --> 01:13:41,880
Speaker 2: vamp and gyrate all over someone's couch.

1323
01:13:43,120 --> 01:13:45,040
Speaker 1: Let me, I thought it was Tim Burton's off I.

1324
01:13:45,000 --> 01:13:49,360
Speaker 2: Would Yeah, I want to find this is the exact story? Uh?

1325
01:13:50,000 --> 01:13:52,559
Speaker 2: Was she? Okay? I don't know.

1326
01:13:53,040 --> 01:13:55,400
Speaker 1: Something happened to her. I feel like something happened to her.

1327
01:13:55,760 --> 01:13:59,519
Speaker 1: A lot of legal issues. M M yeah, James Wood

1328
01:13:59,560 --> 01:14:02,640
Speaker 1: suit you for harassing him and his then fiance, alleging that,

1329
01:14:02,840 --> 01:14:05,759
Speaker 1: in ambition to other disruptive behavior, Young left a disfigured

1330
01:14:05,800 --> 01:14:08,480
Speaker 1: doll on his doorstep. She denied the allocations.

1331
01:14:08,800 --> 01:14:09,960
Speaker 2: Oh that's fine.

1332
01:14:10,560 --> 01:14:12,840
Speaker 1: Doing an afterparty for the Oscars. In twenty twelve, she

1333
01:14:12,880 --> 01:14:15,320
Speaker 1: was placed under citizens arrest. It was alleged that she

1334
01:14:15,400 --> 01:14:17,240
Speaker 1: was asked to leave so she didn't have a ticket

1335
01:14:17,280 --> 01:14:20,960
Speaker 1: to enter the Academy Awards. An argument ensued and resulted

1336
01:14:21,000 --> 01:14:22,679
Speaker 1: in Young slapping a security guard.

1337
01:14:23,439 --> 01:14:26,160
Speaker 2: The charges were late to drop. Okay, it was executive.

1338
01:14:26,320 --> 01:14:30,880
Speaker 2: It was Warner Brothers executive Mark Canton that he was.

1339
01:14:31,280 --> 01:14:34,519
Speaker 2: He was in his office with Michael Keaton and Sean

1340
01:14:34,600 --> 01:14:38,320
Speaker 2: Jung showed up in his office and like jumped over

1341
01:14:38,360 --> 01:14:44,479
Speaker 2: a couch in her costume, saying, I am catwoman, which

1342
01:14:44,640 --> 01:14:48,840
Speaker 2: you know, maybe she's a method that's unbelievable. I am

1343
01:14:48,960 --> 01:14:53,560
Speaker 2: cat I mean she was in that moment. Yeah, you

1344
01:14:53,600 --> 01:14:54,720
Speaker 2: know who among us?

1345
01:14:58,640 --> 01:15:01,479
Speaker 1: Higel, I'm about to tell you a story. I hope

1346
01:15:01,520 --> 01:15:03,320
Speaker 1: to god you've never heard it, because this is the

1347
01:15:03,400 --> 01:15:06,599
Speaker 1: thing of I have twelve pages of these and we're

1348
01:15:06,640 --> 01:15:09,720
Speaker 1: on page like three of everything on here. This is

1349
01:15:09,720 --> 01:15:12,400
Speaker 1: the thing. I'm the most excited to tell you about.

1350
01:15:11,640 --> 01:15:16,040
Speaker 1: I can't wait. Back to Tippy Hendron Higel.

1351
01:15:16,080 --> 01:15:20,080
Speaker 2: Are you familiar with the film roar, Yeah, oh, yeah,

1352
01:15:20,400 --> 01:15:22,680
Speaker 2: yes I am, but I don't think our listeners are.

1353
01:15:23,120 --> 01:15:25,000
Speaker 2: I know it because of like sort of the animals

1354
01:15:25,080 --> 01:15:27,840
Speaker 2: of like animal horror movies, like what they call like

1355
01:15:27,960 --> 01:15:31,760
Speaker 2: Nature groes Berserk or like Nature strikes back films. But yeah,

1356
01:15:31,920 --> 01:15:36,200
Speaker 2: tales on that. Yeah, a lot of animals. Yes, Ror

1357
01:15:36,720 --> 01:15:40,559
Speaker 2: is tell the fine folks about Ror Jordan. It is wide.

1358
01:15:40,560 --> 01:15:43,240
Speaker 1: They considered to be the most dangerous movie ever made.

1359
01:15:44,000 --> 01:15:47,120
Speaker 1: Conceived by Tippy Hendron and her husband, director Noel Marshall,

1360
01:15:47,720 --> 01:15:51,280
Speaker 1: the film features over one hundred and fifty untrained lions,

1361
01:15:51,439 --> 01:15:55,160
Speaker 1: tigers and other big cats interacting freely with the cast

1362
01:15:55,240 --> 01:15:58,840
Speaker 1: and crew, and I do mean freely. They had the

1363
01:15:58,880 --> 01:16:02,240
Speaker 1: idea in nineteen six nice while filming a movie called

1364
01:16:02,360 --> 01:16:09,840
Speaker 1: Satan's Harvest in most Nice in Mozambique. During the shoot,

1365
01:16:09,920 --> 01:16:12,679
Speaker 1: the couple observed a pride of lions who'd moved into

1366
01:16:12,720 --> 01:16:16,200
Speaker 1: an abandoned house due to rampant poaching, and they were

1367
01:16:16,200 --> 01:16:19,040
Speaker 1: so moved by the plight of the lions they decided

1368
01:16:19,040 --> 01:16:21,800
Speaker 1: to make a film sent around this. This theme of

1369
01:16:22,400 --> 01:16:24,760
Speaker 1: saving Saving the animals.

1370
01:16:24,560 --> 01:16:27,280
Speaker 2: Oh Boy.

1371
01:16:28,200 --> 01:16:31,439
Speaker 1: Production started when the first script was completed in nineteen seventy,

1372
01:16:31,920 --> 01:16:36,719
Speaker 1: and Tippy and her husband began bringing rescued big cats

1373
01:16:36,760 --> 01:16:40,280
Speaker 1: into their home in California and living with them, believing

1374
01:16:40,280 --> 01:16:43,280
Speaker 1: that living among the animals would just prove their inherently

1375
01:16:43,360 --> 01:16:48,120
Speaker 1: peaceful nature. That's not how it worked out. Took eleven

1376
01:16:48,240 --> 01:16:52,559
Speaker 1: years and resulted in the serious injury of seventy two people.

1377
01:16:54,040 --> 01:16:57,760
Speaker 1: Hendron's daughter Melanie Griffith, yes that one was mauled in

1378
01:16:57,800 --> 01:17:01,599
Speaker 1: the face and nearly lost an eye. Cinematographer Yan Dubant,

1379
01:17:01,840 --> 01:17:05,320
Speaker 1: later the director of Speed and Twister, needed over one

1380
01:17:05,400 --> 01:17:09,439
Speaker 1: hundred stitches after being scalped by a lion. Hendred herself

1381
01:17:09,520 --> 01:17:12,080
Speaker 1: was bitten, clawed, and at one point lifted off the

1382
01:17:12,080 --> 01:17:14,640
Speaker 1: ground by an elephant. I mean that seems whimsical.

1383
01:17:15,000 --> 01:17:18,160
Speaker 2: Why did they add an elephant at that point? Didn't

1384
01:17:18,160 --> 01:17:21,080
Speaker 2: they have enough deadly beasts?

1385
01:17:21,920 --> 01:17:26,559
Speaker 1: Crew quit repeatedly, and insurance was nearly impossible to secure.

1386
01:17:27,240 --> 01:17:30,480
Speaker 1: Flooding from a dam destroyed much of the set and equipment,

1387
01:17:30,760 --> 01:17:35,679
Speaker 1: and ultimately the budget ballooned to seventeen million dollars. Despite

1388
01:17:35,720 --> 01:17:38,920
Speaker 1: all of this and the extreme danger and complete lack

1389
01:17:38,960 --> 01:17:42,920
Speaker 1: of safety protocols. Tippy and her husband, the aforementioned Noel Marshall,

1390
01:17:43,280 --> 01:17:47,920
Speaker 1: pursued this project obsessively because they wanted to save these animals.

1391
01:17:48,960 --> 01:17:52,799
Speaker 1: Roorr was not initially released in the United States. Instead,

1392
01:17:52,800 --> 01:17:56,959
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty one, it was released internationally. Despite performing

1393
01:17:57,000 --> 01:17:59,040
Speaker 1: well in Germany and Japan.

1394
01:18:00,040 --> 01:18:02,800
Speaker 2: Wow Yeah Say Steady.

1395
01:18:03,320 --> 01:18:06,360
Speaker 1: Rohr was a box office failure, grossing two million dollars

1396
01:18:06,400 --> 01:18:10,479
Speaker 1: against its seventeen million dollar budget. Despite this, Hendrid went

1397
01:18:10,520 --> 01:18:14,360
Speaker 1: on to found the Rore Foundation and the Shambala Preserved

1398
01:18:14,400 --> 01:18:18,040
Speaker 1: Sanctuary to house the animals that had appeared in this film.

1399
01:18:18,479 --> 01:18:21,040
Speaker 1: She also wrote a book, The Cats of Shambala in

1400
01:18:21,120 --> 01:18:24,080
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty five about the events that took place during

1401
01:18:24,080 --> 01:18:27,519
Speaker 1: the film's production. It's been described, as I said earlier,

1402
01:18:27,520 --> 01:18:29,800
Speaker 1: as the most dangerous movie ever made and the most

1403
01:18:29,840 --> 01:18:33,240
Speaker 1: expensive home movie ever made, but it's gained a cult following,

1404
01:18:33,920 --> 01:18:36,759
Speaker 1: and in twenty fifteen, thirty four years after the movie's

1405
01:18:36,760 --> 01:18:39,679
Speaker 1: original release, it was released in theaters in the United

1406
01:18:39,760 --> 01:18:41,880
Speaker 1: States by Draft House Films.

1407
01:18:42,200 --> 01:18:45,519
Speaker 2: I forgot well. I knew that I knew the broad strokes,

1408
01:18:45,520 --> 01:18:48,120
Speaker 2: but I'd forgotten that Yon Dubant was involved. In this

1409
01:18:48,600 --> 01:18:50,799
Speaker 2: because Yon Dubant.

1410
01:18:51,040 --> 01:18:51,800
Speaker 1: It was kind of a dick.

1411
01:18:52,360 --> 01:18:55,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, but he's also like he had such a wild

1412
01:18:56,080 --> 01:18:59,320
Speaker 2: career in Hollywood. You have rohor was like one of

1413
01:18:59,360 --> 01:19:04,040
Speaker 2: the first big Hollywood productions he did in nineteen eighty one.

1414
01:19:04,439 --> 01:19:08,000
Speaker 2: But then he did Kojoe Oh wow, because like I

1415
01:19:08,040 --> 01:19:12,519
Speaker 2: guess he wanted to work with animals again. And then

1416
01:19:12,560 --> 01:19:15,160
Speaker 2: he went and did a bunch of stuff for Madonna,

1417
01:19:16,200 --> 01:19:20,240
Speaker 2: The Jewel of the Nile, then more stuff for Madonna,

1418
01:19:20,640 --> 01:19:24,640
Speaker 2: and then Die Hard Baby, then Hunt for Red October

1419
01:19:25,120 --> 01:19:28,120
Speaker 2: basically instinct he was on tails of the Crypt for

1420
01:19:28,160 --> 01:19:31,519
Speaker 2: an episode. Yeah, good guy, Yehan de Bond not a

1421
01:19:31,560 --> 01:19:34,479
Speaker 2: good guy, except for all of the abuse he put

1422
01:19:34,920 --> 01:19:40,120
Speaker 2: Helen Hunt through on the set of Twister. As you

1423
01:19:40,200 --> 01:19:42,600
Speaker 2: meditate on that, we'll be right back with more too

1424
01:19:42,680 --> 01:19:59,600
Speaker 2: much information after these messages? Wow wow, all right, what

1425
01:19:59,640 --> 01:20:00,719
Speaker 2: do we got for music?

1426
01:20:00,800 --> 01:20:03,280
Speaker 1: How about that I have section here was specifically called

1427
01:20:03,360 --> 01:20:09,000
Speaker 1: things Haigel likes. Let's see, I'll be the judge of that. Hauntings.

1428
01:20:09,040 --> 01:20:13,519
Speaker 1: I have some hauntings. Hauntings. Did you know that while

1429
01:20:13,520 --> 01:20:16,559
Speaker 1: Meatloaf was recording his nineteen seventy seven breakthrough album Bad

1430
01:20:16,600 --> 01:20:20,559
Speaker 1: Out of Hell, go On he swore that he saw ghosts.

1431
01:20:20,800 --> 01:20:22,639
Speaker 1: They appeared to him at the house that was next

1432
01:20:22,680 --> 01:20:25,599
Speaker 1: door to the acclaimed Bearsville studio where he was recording

1433
01:20:25,640 --> 01:20:29,360
Speaker 1: the album with producer Todd Runggrenham songwriter Jim Steinmon. This

1434
01:20:29,760 --> 01:20:33,679
Speaker 1: supposed haunting led to meet Love taking too many sleeping

1435
01:20:33,680 --> 01:20:36,439
Speaker 1: pills one night because he was disturbed by how aggressive

1436
01:20:36,479 --> 01:20:39,719
Speaker 1: the ghosts were, exclaiming that they ripped his blankets off.

1437
01:20:40,360 --> 01:20:41,520
Speaker 2: No, his blankies.

1438
01:20:41,880 --> 01:20:42,519
Speaker 1: Did you know that?

1439
01:20:42,960 --> 01:20:45,920
Speaker 2: No? I didn't. Well, I feel bad for him and

1440
01:20:45,920 --> 01:20:50,000
Speaker 2: his blankies. No, that's embarrassing, especially since like everyone has

1441
01:20:50,040 --> 01:20:53,320
Speaker 2: recorded at that studio, like from British folk singer John

1442
01:20:53,400 --> 01:20:58,120
Speaker 2: Martin to the Replacements go on for their musical hauntings.

1443
01:20:58,120 --> 01:20:59,680
Speaker 2: I thought you were gonna give me something good, like

1444
01:21:00,200 --> 01:21:02,920
Speaker 2: you know, like those Losers and like the nine inch

1445
01:21:03,000 --> 01:21:05,080
Speaker 2: Nails Dorks recording.

1446
01:21:04,640 --> 01:21:06,679
Speaker 1: In Sharon Tate's house.

1447
01:21:06,880 --> 01:21:08,400
Speaker 2: I know. One was that one.

1448
01:21:09,040 --> 01:21:12,519
Speaker 1: David Bowie was recording in Chateau Douville outside of Paris

1449
01:21:12,520 --> 01:21:15,400
Speaker 1: to work on Low in nineteen seventy six is a Low.

1450
01:21:15,920 --> 01:21:18,479
Speaker 1: He wrote, recorded there and lived in the chateau, which

1451
01:21:18,520 --> 01:21:21,120
Speaker 1: he was certain was haunted. He refused to stay in

1452
01:21:21,120 --> 01:21:23,720
Speaker 1: one of the bedrooms because of cold spots and a

1453
01:21:23,840 --> 01:21:25,799
Speaker 1: vague strange feeling.

1454
01:21:27,400 --> 01:21:30,400
Speaker 2: You're David Bowie like you're used to that. That's kind

1455
01:21:30,439 --> 01:21:34,360
Speaker 2: of your whole bit, to be honest, and Brian.

1456
01:21:34,240 --> 01:21:37,880
Speaker 1: Eno, his associate during the production, swore that somebody shook

1457
01:21:37,880 --> 01:21:41,040
Speaker 1: his shoulders early in the morning, but no one was there,

1458
01:21:41,640 --> 01:21:44,519
Speaker 1: which I choose to believe was Bowie, just like sneaking

1459
01:21:44,720 --> 01:21:49,000
Speaker 1: behind him and then ducking. But yeah, yeah, I.

1460
01:21:48,960 --> 01:21:52,360
Speaker 2: Was gonna say it was in Tony Visconti a just

1461
01:21:52,520 --> 01:21:54,760
Speaker 2: desperately trying to get anyone to pay attention to him,

1462
01:21:55,000 --> 01:21:59,439
Speaker 2: just choosing not to see you, That's exactly it. They

1463
01:21:59,560 --> 01:22:02,280
Speaker 2: just like he's like right in front of them, Like, guys,

1464
01:22:02,600 --> 01:22:04,760
Speaker 2: I'm co producing this album. They're like, must be a

1465
01:22:04,840 --> 01:22:09,760
Speaker 2: ghost in here. I'm getting willies, aren't you. Brian? You

1466
01:22:09,800 --> 01:22:13,679
Speaker 2: know that's lame. Give me something else? What do you got?

1467
01:22:14,080 --> 01:22:19,200
Speaker 1: Black Sabbath. They're recording Sabbath, Bloody Sabbath. They record settled

1468
01:22:19,240 --> 01:22:23,240
Speaker 1: in the gothic Clearwell Castle, where bands like Deep Purple

1469
01:22:23,280 --> 01:22:27,200
Speaker 1: and Genesis had rehearsed, and when Tonyaomi was scoping out

1470
01:22:27,280 --> 01:22:31,679
Speaker 1: the grounds with Ozzie and Geezer, they found a cloak

1471
01:22:31,800 --> 01:22:35,320
Speaker 1: figure walking around, only to then disappear into thin air,

1472
01:22:35,760 --> 01:22:37,639
Speaker 1: and they talked to the grounds keeper. No, they talked

1473
01:22:37,640 --> 01:22:40,720
Speaker 1: to the groundskeeper formed the band that that was just

1474
01:22:40,760 --> 01:22:43,720
Speaker 1: the castle's ghost. They were clearly spooked out by this

1475
01:22:43,760 --> 01:22:48,080
Speaker 1: mysterious visitor, and they vacated the premises soon after, not

1476
01:22:48,240 --> 01:22:51,559
Speaker 1: before Tony came up with the riff for the title track.

1477
01:22:52,200 --> 01:22:55,680
Speaker 2: Oh that's a great song. What pussies though? My god,

1478
01:22:57,200 --> 01:23:00,840
Speaker 2: your old thing is that. It's just so funny to

1479
01:23:00,880 --> 01:23:03,960
Speaker 2: think that, like for all the posturing behind like Black Sabbath,

1480
01:23:03,960 --> 01:23:06,040
Speaker 2: they're just they're just lads. Yeah.

1481
01:23:06,880 --> 01:23:09,559
Speaker 1: Did you know the Iron Maiden story which one the

1482
01:23:09,640 --> 01:23:10,639
Speaker 1: Number of the Beast story?

1483
01:23:10,960 --> 01:23:13,679
Speaker 2: This is really good. I mean I've seen I've seen

1484
01:23:13,720 --> 01:23:16,240
Speaker 2: the classic albums on it, but what else you got?

1485
01:23:16,360 --> 01:23:18,519
Speaker 1: Iron Maiden working on the third album with new singer

1486
01:23:18,520 --> 01:23:22,080
Speaker 1: Bruce Dickinson. When producer Martin Birch was involved in a

1487
01:23:22,120 --> 01:23:24,759
Speaker 1: car accident one night after tracking some of the songs

1488
01:23:24,760 --> 01:23:28,559
Speaker 1: for Number of the Beast, he was mostly okay, but

1489
01:23:28,600 --> 01:23:31,040
Speaker 1: then when he got the bill for the car's damages

1490
01:23:31,640 --> 01:23:34,559
Speaker 1: he saw that the balance was six hundred and sixty

1491
01:23:34,560 --> 01:23:40,760
Speaker 1: six pounds. Yes, he was like, I'm not superstitious, but

1492
01:23:40,800 --> 01:23:43,360
Speaker 1: I asked them very nicely if they could round up

1493
01:23:43,400 --> 01:23:46,519
Speaker 1: to six hundred and sixty seven pounds instead.

1494
01:23:47,200 --> 01:23:50,839
Speaker 2: That's funny. Uh, you know, Bruce Dickinson can fly planes

1495
01:23:51,479 --> 01:23:54,640
Speaker 2: and like flies them to their shows. No. I like that,

1496
01:23:55,120 --> 01:23:58,360
Speaker 2: he's like a certified pilot. And also I believe he's

1497
01:23:58,439 --> 01:24:02,639
Speaker 2: like a fencer, like a champion bat I find sir.

1498
01:24:03,000 --> 01:24:08,360
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, he's also a gargantuan monty python nerd, to

1499
01:24:08,400 --> 01:24:11,000
Speaker 1: the point where he's like in almost every documentary on

1500
01:24:11,120 --> 01:24:12,479
Speaker 1: him made in the last twenty years.

1501
01:24:12,960 --> 01:24:15,800
Speaker 2: That's so funny. I find them so weirdly wholesome, and

1502
01:24:15,840 --> 01:24:17,880
Speaker 2: I like don't actually want to look into it, because

1503
01:24:17,880 --> 01:24:20,599
Speaker 2: I'm sure they're scumbags in different ways. But you know

1504
01:24:21,400 --> 01:24:23,240
Speaker 2: all those eighties videos of them on tour where they're

1505
01:24:23,240 --> 01:24:25,880
Speaker 2: wearing like leg warmers and high tops and they just

1506
01:24:25,920 --> 01:24:28,760
Speaker 2: like run around and jump like kind of feebly. Like

1507
01:24:28,840 --> 01:24:30,719
Speaker 2: I love when they do. Like he does his little

1508
01:24:30,760 --> 01:24:32,840
Speaker 2: jumps and he only gets like a foot off the ground.

1509
01:24:32,840 --> 01:24:36,160
Speaker 2: You're like, oh, a little buddy. But they're also playing

1510
01:24:36,160 --> 01:24:38,320
Speaker 2: in Brazil to like five hundred thousand people who are

1511
01:24:38,360 --> 01:24:42,920
Speaker 2: all screaming the words yep, maiden. I don't know. What

1512
01:24:42,920 --> 01:24:46,160
Speaker 2: do you say about Maiden, great Bam, great great band.

1513
01:24:46,320 --> 01:24:49,200
Speaker 2: Dude's really hard bass lines. You know, he never warms

1514
01:24:49,280 --> 01:24:53,599
Speaker 2: up for shows before playing those. Bruce No, No, Steve Harris,

1515
01:24:53,600 --> 01:24:55,880
Speaker 2: the base who actually who actually writes a lot of

1516
01:24:55,880 --> 01:24:56,400
Speaker 2: those songs.

1517
01:24:56,439 --> 01:24:57,719
Speaker 1: I never warmed up for your band.

1518
01:24:57,840 --> 01:25:00,800
Speaker 2: Well, that's not something to be proud of, uh, It's

1519
01:25:01,520 --> 01:25:04,880
Speaker 2: it's more of the fact that those Iron Maiden baselines

1520
01:25:04,880 --> 01:25:10,400
Speaker 2: are incredibly he's he's invented the gallop, which is the yeah, eighth,

1521
01:25:10,840 --> 01:25:16,600
Speaker 2: sixteenth and on on. Like flat wound strings, which is

1522
01:25:16,600 --> 01:25:20,000
Speaker 2: another weird, a weird thing for like a metal guy

1523
01:25:20,040 --> 01:25:20,280
Speaker 2: to do.

1524
01:25:20,439 --> 01:25:23,559
Speaker 1: But I played flat ones for you.

1525
01:25:23,960 --> 01:25:26,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I like flat ones a lot, do you know that? Like, So,

1526
01:25:27,840 --> 01:25:31,320
Speaker 2: what's interesting about people who do like professional cover bands

1527
01:25:31,479 --> 01:25:34,400
Speaker 2: is that for most of the eras that they should

1528
01:25:34,439 --> 01:25:38,080
Speaker 2: be aping, they should be using flat wound strings, like

1529
01:25:38,760 --> 01:25:42,000
Speaker 2: the Beatles use flat wound strings. Roundbound strings were not

1530
01:25:42,040 --> 01:25:46,400
Speaker 2: really commercially available until the mid to late sixties, and

1531
01:25:46,800 --> 01:25:49,479
Speaker 2: initially there were only some basses that shipped with them,

1532
01:25:49,520 --> 01:25:53,880
Speaker 2: Like you know, when John in Twistle was doing My Generation,

1533
01:25:54,320 --> 01:25:56,080
Speaker 2: when they were recording that with the Who he broke

1534
01:25:56,280 --> 01:26:00,200
Speaker 2: like however many strings before they got the final takedown.

1535
01:26:00,280 --> 01:26:03,439
Speaker 2: But because they didn't sell strings individually, they just had

1536
01:26:03,439 --> 01:26:06,680
Speaker 2: to go keep buying more for the same base, like

1537
01:26:06,720 --> 01:26:09,280
Speaker 2: the same Dan electro bass from the or Eastwood I

1538
01:26:09,320 --> 01:26:15,720
Speaker 2: think it ORNs yeah, but yeah, And so like a

1539
01:26:15,720 --> 01:26:19,160
Speaker 2: lot of the period, like all those canonical recordings that

1540
01:26:19,240 --> 01:26:21,120
Speaker 2: everyone is like trying to play and they're like, well,

1541
01:26:21,160 --> 01:26:23,360
Speaker 2: why doesn't it sound like the Beatles, It's like yeah,

1542
01:26:23,400 --> 01:26:26,799
Speaker 2: because they were using completely different kind of strings. And

1543
01:26:26,920 --> 01:26:29,320
Speaker 2: you know, one of the first people who was like

1544
01:26:29,360 --> 01:26:35,479
Speaker 2: an architect of that, Chris Squire of yes, that makes sense.

1545
01:26:35,800 --> 01:26:37,600
Speaker 2: He was pushing to get more trouble into it and

1546
01:26:37,600 --> 01:26:41,160
Speaker 2: he wanted to see how they could experiment with that,

1547
01:26:41,720 --> 01:26:45,800
Speaker 2: and that's how we got the roundabout bass tone, which

1548
01:26:45,840 --> 01:26:48,680
Speaker 2: is one of the coolest bass bass intros.

1549
01:26:48,280 --> 01:26:49,160
Speaker 1: Of all time.

1550
01:26:53,760 --> 01:26:55,639
Speaker 2: Uh, that's all I have to say about that.

1551
01:26:56,760 --> 01:26:59,000
Speaker 1: He puts a rick just like me. He does in

1552
01:26:59,040 --> 01:26:59,519
Speaker 1: your band.

1553
01:27:00,880 --> 01:27:02,680
Speaker 2: This is now a guitar podcast.

1554
01:27:04,240 --> 01:27:07,720
Speaker 1: Oh I had speaking of spooky, unsettling things, I had

1555
01:27:07,800 --> 01:27:10,120
Speaker 1: hit me in Rock and Roll the Gimme Shelter session

1556
01:27:10,120 --> 01:27:10,920
Speaker 1: with Mary Clayton.

1557
01:27:11,080 --> 01:27:15,160
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, well that's too sad. Yeah, it's just too sad.

1558
01:27:15,240 --> 01:27:18,120
Speaker 2: I mean she actually Mary Clayton has a like a

1559
01:27:18,360 --> 01:27:22,000
Speaker 2: great solo record that I always when people talk about her,

1560
01:27:22,040 --> 01:27:24,920
Speaker 2: I always want to bring up that where she covers

1561
01:27:25,200 --> 01:27:30,120
Speaker 2: Southern Man by Neil Young and it's like devastating. So

1562
01:27:30,320 --> 01:27:33,680
Speaker 2: go check out Mary Clayton's you know, I mean, you

1563
01:27:33,720 --> 01:27:36,640
Speaker 2: can get in, you can say it, you know. She

1564
01:27:36,200 --> 01:27:38,640
Speaker 2: she was called out of bed in the middle of

1565
01:27:38,680 --> 01:27:41,879
Speaker 2: the night for a Rolling Stone session and like certainly

1566
01:27:42,720 --> 01:27:46,320
Speaker 2: Mick Jaggers, you know that like voice crack she hits

1567
01:27:46,320 --> 01:27:48,200
Speaker 2: on that one song as you hear him go.

1568
01:27:48,280 --> 01:27:50,320
Speaker 1: Whoo, it's the best part.

1569
01:27:50,640 --> 01:28:21,400
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, but she also miscarried that night.

1570
01:28:21,640 --> 01:28:26,160
Speaker 1: Wasn't that night. It was like shortly thereafter, okay, but

1571
01:28:26,320 --> 01:28:26,680
Speaker 1: yeah it was.

1572
01:28:26,800 --> 01:28:27,639
Speaker 2: It was not that night.

1573
01:28:27,720 --> 01:28:30,280
Speaker 1: No, Yeah, they called her up. They were doing the

1574
01:28:30,360 --> 01:28:32,920
Speaker 1: vocal track for Gimme Shelter, and I think it was

1575
01:28:32,960 --> 01:28:36,719
Speaker 1: Sunset Sound in Los Angeles and in October of sixty nine,

1576
01:28:37,240 --> 01:28:40,800
Speaker 1: and they just all of a sudden they thought, oh,

1577
01:28:40,800 --> 01:28:42,120
Speaker 1: wait a minute, it'd be really cool to have a

1578
01:28:42,120 --> 01:28:44,680
Speaker 1: woman sing on the chorus. Mick would say in a

1579
01:28:44,720 --> 01:28:47,080
Speaker 1: two thousand and three interview it would be one of

1580
01:28:47,080 --> 01:28:49,719
Speaker 1: those moments along the lines of I hear a girl

1581
01:28:49,760 --> 01:28:56,000
Speaker 1: on this track get one on the phone, Farmer. The

1582
01:28:56,040 --> 01:28:58,280
Speaker 1: song was being arranged by the great Jack Nietzsch, who

1583
01:28:58,360 --> 01:29:01,360
Speaker 1: was a longtime phil Spector all Sound collaborator, and he

1584
01:29:01,400 --> 01:29:04,400
Speaker 1: suggested Mary Clayton m E R R Y. I that

1585
01:29:04,680 --> 01:29:07,320
Speaker 1: m A R y. She was born on Christmas.

1586
01:29:07,800 --> 01:29:09,080
Speaker 2: That's cute. No, I didn't.

1587
01:29:09,160 --> 01:29:11,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the Stones would recall her showing up to

1588
01:29:12,000 --> 01:29:15,800
Speaker 1: the studio after midnight in curlers, having been gotten out

1589
01:29:15,800 --> 01:29:21,519
Speaker 1: of bed, and yeah, gets down there and good god,

1590
01:29:21,600 --> 01:29:23,559
Speaker 1: I don't think I've ever heard that isolated. She does

1591
01:29:23,600 --> 01:29:25,880
Speaker 1: a great cover version, if you could call it a

1592
01:29:25,920 --> 01:29:28,040
Speaker 1: cover version of Give Me Shelter or it's just her

1593
01:29:28,280 --> 01:29:29,760
Speaker 1: and it's really good. I used to play that when

1594
01:29:29,760 --> 01:29:31,000
Speaker 1: I would DJ out a lot.

1595
01:29:32,160 --> 01:29:36,320
Speaker 2: But my god, yeah, it's haunting. It's one of those

1596
01:29:36,439 --> 01:29:38,680
Speaker 2: I mean, there's there's definitely I'm trying to think of

1597
01:29:38,720 --> 01:29:41,679
Speaker 2: like other instances that I can recall in music where

1598
01:29:41,720 --> 01:29:45,519
Speaker 2: like the backing singer just totally steals it. No, well,

1599
01:29:45,640 --> 01:29:49,400
Speaker 2: I mean peg obviously stealing d Michael McDonald, but no,

1600
01:29:49,520 --> 01:29:51,760
Speaker 2: I was I'm thinking of like where you can hear

1601
01:29:51,880 --> 01:29:55,840
Speaker 2: like somebody injuring their voice, like in the take that

1602
01:29:55,880 --> 01:30:00,120
Speaker 2: they used, I mean twist and shout. Yeah, I you

1603
01:30:00,160 --> 01:30:01,840
Speaker 2: were gonna take it there, that's true.

1604
01:30:01,920 --> 01:30:04,280
Speaker 1: Yes, this is he had a cold all day. It

1605
01:30:04,320 --> 01:30:06,800
Speaker 1: was the first album recording session. They only want one

1606
01:30:06,880 --> 01:30:08,760
Speaker 1: day to do it, and John showed up with a

1607
01:30:08,800 --> 01:30:11,559
Speaker 1: cold and these sucking throat drops and drinking milk all

1608
01:30:11,640 --> 01:30:14,599
Speaker 1: day and he saved twist and shout till the very end.

1609
01:30:15,120 --> 01:30:18,000
Speaker 2: You're talking about John Fogerty of Creeden's clear Water Revival,

1610
01:30:18,120 --> 01:30:20,080
Speaker 2: he kind of sounds like John Lennon doing twist and

1611
01:30:20,120 --> 01:30:21,120
Speaker 2: shout Fogerty does.

1612
01:30:22,160 --> 01:30:23,719
Speaker 1: And then there was some I think it was Harry

1613
01:30:23,800 --> 01:30:26,559
Speaker 1: Nilsson in the seventies when he was in his like

1614
01:30:26,680 --> 01:30:29,320
Speaker 1: really coked out period hanging out with John Lennon.

1615
01:30:29,439 --> 01:30:32,320
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and they had the like who could scream

1616
01:30:32,439 --> 01:30:35,440
Speaker 2: louder and they like left blood on the microphone.

1617
01:30:36,360 --> 01:30:37,080
Speaker 1: That is correct.

1618
01:30:37,120 --> 01:30:40,960
Speaker 2: Disgusting, yes, yes, yes. Going back to meat Loaf, that's

1619
01:30:40,960 --> 01:30:42,439
Speaker 2: like the thing where he talks about he used to

1620
01:30:42,439 --> 01:30:46,919
Speaker 2: be able to like blow out mixing boards with his voice,

1621
01:30:46,960 --> 01:30:49,479
Speaker 2: which I don't fully know is a thing that you

1622
01:30:49,560 --> 01:30:52,679
Speaker 2: can actually do. Maybe it was back in the day.

1623
01:30:53,640 --> 01:30:55,519
Speaker 2: I don't know. Meatloaf's funny.

1624
01:30:55,880 --> 01:30:58,160
Speaker 1: He was one of my first interviews at people, or

1625
01:30:58,160 --> 01:30:59,840
Speaker 1: at least one of the first interviews with people that

1626
01:30:59,880 --> 01:31:02,759
Speaker 1: I cared about. Yeah, and it was over the phone

1627
01:31:03,040 --> 01:31:06,680
Speaker 1: and he answered and he was sick. I think the

1628
01:31:06,800 --> 01:31:09,000
Speaker 1: title of the article ended up being meat loaf as

1629
01:31:09,080 --> 01:31:12,120
Speaker 1: a cold in honor of the Gates alse Frank Sinatra

1630
01:31:12,160 --> 01:31:12,960
Speaker 1: as a gold piece.

1631
01:31:13,640 --> 01:31:14,360
Speaker 2: He was like, came on.

1632
01:31:14,479 --> 01:31:16,200
Speaker 1: He was like really apologetic, So I hope he could

1633
01:31:16,200 --> 01:31:17,920
Speaker 1: still understand me. I've got you know, I've got to

1634
01:31:18,240 --> 01:31:21,040
Speaker 1: really he's a real rasp in his voice. He said, oh, man,

1635
01:31:21,240 --> 01:31:24,880
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. He said, why are you sorry? You didn't

1636
01:31:24,880 --> 01:31:28,479
Speaker 1: do it in full meat low voice? Or did you?

1637
01:31:30,760 --> 01:31:32,160
Speaker 1: And it was terrifying.

1638
01:31:33,040 --> 01:31:36,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, so great. Oh, it's so sad. He uh. He

1639
01:31:36,600 --> 01:31:38,439
Speaker 2: was a bit of a you know, he was a

1640
01:31:38,479 --> 01:31:42,400
Speaker 2: COVID denier and that's essentially killed him. All Right, what

1641
01:31:42,479 --> 01:31:43,040
Speaker 2: else we got?

1642
01:31:43,520 --> 01:31:46,840
Speaker 1: Oh, this is kind of an obscure story, but I

1643
01:31:46,840 --> 01:31:49,320
Speaker 1: feel like you would appreciate. I filed this under the

1644
01:31:49,320 --> 01:31:54,960
Speaker 1: things Heigel like section for just audacity, okay, in terms

1645
01:31:55,000 --> 01:31:57,799
Speaker 1: of just just sticking it to the man. The nineteen

1646
01:31:57,840 --> 01:31:58,479
Speaker 1: fifty five.

1647
01:31:58,400 --> 01:32:01,400
Speaker 2: Movie Marty star Ernest Borgnine.

1648
01:32:02,280 --> 01:32:05,800
Speaker 1: Ernest Borgnine showed up to set for work and nobody

1649
01:32:05,840 --> 01:32:08,360
Speaker 1: had even begun to build the sets. And this was

1650
01:32:08,400 --> 01:32:11,879
Speaker 1: apparently because, according to him, the film was never intended

1651
01:32:11,880 --> 01:32:15,080
Speaker 1: to be shot. The studio conceived of this movie as

1652
01:32:15,120 --> 01:32:17,720
Speaker 1: a tax write off, and they were planning on canceling

1653
01:32:17,760 --> 01:32:20,960
Speaker 1: it and attributing all kinds of miscellaneous expenses to it

1654
01:32:21,000 --> 01:32:22,000
Speaker 1: as a failed.

1655
01:32:21,680 --> 01:32:23,200
Speaker 2: Project for tax purposes.

1656
01:32:23,320 --> 01:32:26,160
Speaker 1: They were going to producers it basically yeah, but then

1657
01:32:26,560 --> 01:32:30,639
Speaker 1: somebody on staff realized that, no, you didn't. This isn't

1658
01:32:30,680 --> 01:32:34,160
Speaker 1: actually how that worked. The studio couldn't claim a movie

1659
01:32:34,200 --> 01:32:36,439
Speaker 1: as a write off and unless they actually went through

1660
01:32:36,479 --> 01:32:39,519
Speaker 1: with the filming and released it. So they made this

1661
01:32:39,600 --> 01:32:43,000
Speaker 1: movie sort of begrudgingly. This was all according to Ernest borgnine.

1662
01:32:43,160 --> 01:32:45,120
Speaker 1: So they went through this movie and they released it,

1663
01:32:45,320 --> 01:32:48,040
Speaker 1: and it won Best Picture and a Best Actor oscar

1664
01:32:48,080 --> 01:32:49,080
Speaker 1: for urnes borg nine.

1665
01:32:49,760 --> 01:32:53,640
Speaker 2: Good for him, I know, I trust Ernest borgnine not

1666
01:32:53,680 --> 01:32:54,519
Speaker 2: to leave me wrong.

1667
01:32:54,800 --> 01:32:56,760
Speaker 1: I wonder if that's where where mel Brooks got the

1668
01:32:56,880 --> 01:32:58,919
Speaker 1: uh the story for the producers.

1669
01:32:58,960 --> 01:33:01,920
Speaker 2: Maybe it was like an open seat grit and uh well,

1670
01:33:01,920 --> 01:33:04,599
Speaker 2: I mean we've talked about how Hollywood accounting before, right,

1671
01:33:04,640 --> 01:33:09,120
Speaker 2: how there's like all kinds of stuff that the.

1672
01:33:08,120 --> 01:33:11,240
Speaker 1: Huge movies that are technically didn't turn a profit.

1673
01:33:11,280 --> 01:33:14,280
Speaker 2: Right, so nobody like involved in them at a certain level.

1674
01:33:14,320 --> 01:33:16,800
Speaker 2: Ever gets to see the actual like Return of the

1675
01:33:16,920 --> 01:33:20,040
Speaker 2: Jedi and Spinal Tap and like all of this other stuff.

1676
01:33:20,160 --> 01:33:24,000
Speaker 2: So yeah, oh, it's a fun industry movie magic.

1677
01:33:25,560 --> 01:33:28,439
Speaker 1: It's a great mel Brooks story where he spent the

1678
01:33:28,479 --> 01:33:31,479
Speaker 1: fifties like really kind of on top of the world

1679
01:33:31,479 --> 01:33:34,000
Speaker 1: as a one of the main writers on Sid Seizure's

1680
01:33:34,040 --> 01:33:36,880
Speaker 1: really groundbreaking comedy series, Your Show of shows. In that

1681
01:33:36,920 --> 01:33:41,400
Speaker 1: writing room that had like Woody Allen, Neil Simon, I

1682
01:33:41,400 --> 01:33:43,760
Speaker 1: forget there were other Carl Reyner. Yeah, I think Carl

1683
01:33:43,840 --> 01:33:47,040
Speaker 1: Reiner was a too, like legendary comedy writers room. And

1684
01:33:47,080 --> 01:33:48,760
Speaker 1: then at the end of the decade in the late

1685
01:33:48,800 --> 01:33:51,960
Speaker 1: fifties and early sixties is the show ended, his marriage

1686
01:33:51,960 --> 01:33:53,680
Speaker 1: fell apart, and he was I think he moved back

1687
01:33:53,680 --> 01:33:56,920
Speaker 1: given like his family in New York. He really wasn't

1688
01:33:56,920 --> 01:34:00,000
Speaker 1: doing well and he had this passion project, the produce,

1689
01:34:00,360 --> 01:34:02,120
Speaker 1: and he wanted it to be a Broadway show. He

1690
01:34:02,160 --> 01:34:04,519
Speaker 1: wrote it initially as a Broadway show, and of course

1691
01:34:04,560 --> 01:34:06,439
Speaker 1: he took it all over town and everyone was like,

1692
01:34:06,479 --> 01:34:09,400
Speaker 1: are you out of your fine, and he was like

1693
01:34:09,520 --> 01:34:12,800
Speaker 1: having lunch at some show busy tight haunts. Maybe it

1694
01:34:12,840 --> 01:34:15,120
Speaker 1: was Sardi's or one of those types of places, and

1695
01:34:15,160 --> 01:34:17,599
Speaker 1: he was sitting there, you know, kind of just hanging

1696
01:34:17,600 --> 01:34:20,840
Speaker 1: over his plate, really bummed out about how his play

1697
01:34:20,920 --> 01:34:24,160
Speaker 1: kept getting rejected. And Ann Bancroft walked in and he

1698
01:34:24,320 --> 01:34:27,080
Speaker 1: told his friend, you know, in three years, I'm gonna

1699
01:34:27,080 --> 01:34:30,120
Speaker 1: get this thing made. I'm gonna marry her. Yeah Bancroft,

1700
01:34:30,200 --> 01:34:32,040
Speaker 1: I think at that point she had already won the

1701
01:34:32,080 --> 01:34:34,880
Speaker 1: Oscar for America Worker thing, so she was, you know,

1702
01:34:34,880 --> 01:34:37,880
Speaker 1: a very big name. And sure enough, within a couple

1703
01:34:37,920 --> 01:34:41,519
Speaker 1: of years they were married. And he retooled the script

1704
01:34:41,600 --> 01:34:44,040
Speaker 1: as a as a movie script and on a Broadway show,

1705
01:34:44,520 --> 01:34:49,559
Speaker 1: and in nineteen sixty eight it was released to great acclaim.

1706
01:34:49,960 --> 01:34:53,160
Speaker 1: Supposed to be Peter Sellers as the Nazi in it

1707
01:34:53,240 --> 01:34:56,559
Speaker 1: as the Kenneth Mars role. Oh really, Yeah, he didn't

1708
01:34:56,600 --> 01:34:59,639
Speaker 1: get back to him entire Peter was just such a

1709
01:34:59,680 --> 01:35:02,320
Speaker 1: play that he like just kind of basically forgot to

1710
01:35:02,320 --> 01:35:04,840
Speaker 1: say yes to it, and he was like really heartbroken

1711
01:35:04,920 --> 01:35:06,599
Speaker 1: that never worked out for him.

1712
01:35:06,640 --> 01:35:08,240
Speaker 2: Was it was like one of his favorite movies of

1713
01:35:08,280 --> 01:35:13,840
Speaker 2: all time? No, yeah, uh what else he Oh, this

1714
01:35:14,040 --> 01:35:14,960
Speaker 2: is crazy.

1715
01:35:15,320 --> 01:35:18,880
Speaker 1: I so if that was an instance of studio trying

1716
01:35:18,920 --> 01:35:21,640
Speaker 1: to stick it to the man and failing, this is

1717
01:35:22,080 --> 01:35:24,519
Speaker 1: a truly amazing instance of the man sticking it to

1718
01:35:24,600 --> 01:35:27,599
Speaker 1: the public. Did you know I'd never heard this? Maybe

1719
01:35:27,600 --> 01:35:31,320
Speaker 1: this is old news to everybody that TBS and surely

1720
01:35:31,360 --> 01:35:35,439
Speaker 1: other networks too speed up reruns of Seinfeld and other

1721
01:35:35,479 --> 01:35:40,320
Speaker 1: syndicated shows by seven to nine percent to fit in

1722
01:35:40,400 --> 01:35:43,439
Speaker 1: extra minutes of ad time. I did not know that

1723
01:35:43,800 --> 01:35:46,760
Speaker 1: there are all these YouTube clips of like original broadcasts

1724
01:35:46,840 --> 01:35:49,200
Speaker 1: versus yes broadcast.

1725
01:35:48,920 --> 01:35:50,960
Speaker 2: And it is wild how out of sync they were.

1726
01:35:51,000 --> 01:35:53,320
Speaker 1: And then there are other things like in twenty sixteen

1727
01:35:53,479 --> 01:35:55,519
Speaker 1: they aired a Christmas story and they sped that up

1728
01:35:55,600 --> 01:36:00,320
Speaker 1: by thirteen point five percent. That's crazy, seen like it

1729
01:36:00,360 --> 01:36:00,720
Speaker 1: would be.

1730
01:36:00,880 --> 01:36:03,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems like it would be. Yeah, right, yeah,

1731
01:36:03,800 --> 01:36:06,960
Speaker 2: I know, Yeah it wasn't. Nobody complained.

1732
01:36:07,439 --> 01:36:09,799
Speaker 1: I don't know, I'm not I mean apparently not, yeah,

1733
01:36:10,640 --> 01:36:12,400
Speaker 1: because I know they used to do that with songs

1734
01:36:12,840 --> 01:36:15,240
Speaker 1: on the radio and especially like AM radio in the

1735
01:36:15,280 --> 01:36:18,599
Speaker 1: sixties to get more ads in. But yeah, I had

1736
01:36:18,640 --> 01:36:21,800
Speaker 1: no idea that did that with h I mean, if

1737
01:36:21,840 --> 01:36:25,640
Speaker 1: I were Larry David in some days, I think I am,

1738
01:36:26,040 --> 01:36:30,000
Speaker 1: it would really annoy me speeding up the rhythm of the.

1739
01:36:30,040 --> 01:36:31,439
Speaker 2: Double some of the jokes.

1740
01:36:31,520 --> 01:36:33,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, like that would really screw it up if

1741
01:36:33,600 --> 01:36:36,759
Speaker 1: it was too fast. Yeah, I just thought that was crazy.

1742
01:36:37,080 --> 01:36:39,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that well. I think about it with

1743
01:36:39,600 --> 01:36:42,439
Speaker 2: music because like that would just happen as a mistake

1744
01:36:42,520 --> 01:36:45,280
Speaker 2: of like pressing the record, which is why like you know,

1745
01:36:45,400 --> 01:36:49,320
Speaker 2: famous Billy joel One but like famously kind of Blue

1746
01:36:49,560 --> 01:36:53,240
Speaker 2: is like those original pressings were mastered at the wrong speed,

1747
01:36:53,320 --> 01:36:56,200
Speaker 2: so there were always like jazz musicians trying to like

1748
01:36:56,400 --> 01:36:58,519
Speaker 2: learn licks and trying to play along with it and

1749
01:36:58,600 --> 01:37:02,280
Speaker 2: just having to like two down slightly or tune out

1750
01:37:02,280 --> 01:37:04,479
Speaker 2: of the way slightly because it was just an error

1751
01:37:04,479 --> 01:37:07,960
Speaker 2: and how it was pressed. And there's different examples of

1752
01:37:08,000 --> 01:37:10,559
Speaker 2: that that are out there. I don't know. I don't

1753
01:37:10,560 --> 01:37:14,240
Speaker 2: know anyone that were like not like like that became

1754
01:37:14,280 --> 01:37:16,639
Speaker 2: like collector's items because of it. I feel like that's

1755
01:37:16,680 --> 01:37:22,120
Speaker 2: maybe more your purview is the collecting wing of it. No, yeah,

1756
01:37:22,200 --> 01:37:24,960
Speaker 2: nothing I know of. No what else you got?

1757
01:37:25,240 --> 01:37:28,680
Speaker 1: Did you know that Brian Cranston of Breaking Bad and

1758
01:37:28,760 --> 01:37:30,920
Speaker 1: Knocked on the Middle Fan was wanted for murder?

1759
01:37:32,479 --> 01:37:34,000
Speaker 2: Did not you did?

1760
01:37:34,000 --> 01:37:34,519
Speaker 1: Not notice.

1761
01:37:34,720 --> 01:37:35,960
Speaker 2: I did you know? You got me?

1762
01:37:36,479 --> 01:37:38,439
Speaker 1: So I guess. There was some summer in the seventies

1763
01:37:38,439 --> 01:37:41,080
Speaker 1: when he was a teenager and he and his brother

1764
01:37:41,160 --> 01:37:45,120
Speaker 1: were doing like an easy rider style motorcycle tour across

1765
01:37:45,120 --> 01:37:48,240
Speaker 1: the country, and they settled in Florida for a spell

1766
01:37:48,560 --> 01:37:52,720
Speaker 1: and worked at this restaurant, and the head chef was

1767
01:37:52,800 --> 01:37:56,560
Speaker 1: a very, very mean man. Cranston told Mark Maron in

1768
01:37:56,600 --> 01:37:59,120
Speaker 1: twenty eleven, no matter how nice you may have been

1769
01:37:59,160 --> 01:38:02,400
Speaker 1: to him, he hated and I guess because of this,

1770
01:38:02,520 --> 01:38:05,640
Speaker 1: not surprisingly, a lot of the White staff routinely joked

1771
01:38:05,920 --> 01:38:07,840
Speaker 1: about how they wanted to kill him.

1772
01:38:07,880 --> 01:38:10,000
Speaker 2: Cranston would say that was all they talked about.

1773
01:38:10,560 --> 01:38:14,880
Speaker 1: But then when this guy wound up murdered, cops had

1774
01:38:14,880 --> 01:38:18,679
Speaker 1: a lot of questions. And unfortunately, right before those guy

1775
01:38:18,720 --> 01:38:21,080
Speaker 1: got murdered, that was the time when the two Cranston

1776
01:38:21,120 --> 01:38:23,320
Speaker 1: brothers decided that they were going to continue on their

1777
01:38:23,320 --> 01:38:27,640
Speaker 1: motorcycle trip and skip down. So this guy wound up

1778
01:38:27,720 --> 01:38:30,920
Speaker 1: dead right after they left. They were high on the

1779
01:38:31,000 --> 01:38:35,759
Speaker 1: suspect list until they were eventually tracked down and cleared.

1780
01:38:36,240 --> 01:38:37,200
Speaker 2: Well did he do it?

1781
01:38:37,760 --> 01:38:39,200
Speaker 1: I mean, it would account for a lot of the

1782
01:38:39,240 --> 01:38:41,000
Speaker 1: intensity for Walter White.

1783
01:38:40,840 --> 01:38:42,800
Speaker 2: I was gonna say, I mean, like, come on, man,

1784
01:38:42,880 --> 01:38:44,360
Speaker 2: he's got to be channeling something.

1785
01:38:44,720 --> 01:38:47,240
Speaker 1: I went to see a couple weeks ago with my

1786
01:38:47,600 --> 01:38:52,479
Speaker 1: family at the Palace Hotel. Every weekend, they have this guy,

1787
01:38:52,560 --> 01:38:55,280
Speaker 1: Steve Cohen. He's a magician. They call him a millionaire's

1788
01:38:55,320 --> 01:39:00,160
Speaker 1: magician because he would perform for Warren Buffett and on

1789
01:39:00,240 --> 01:39:03,400
Speaker 1: all these like really rip business pit. He's not dead

1790
01:39:03,760 --> 01:39:06,559
Speaker 1: Warren Buffett, Yeah, that's Jimmy Buffett.

1791
01:39:06,600 --> 01:39:07,800
Speaker 2: I thought Warren Buffett just died.

1792
01:39:07,920 --> 01:39:10,280
Speaker 1: I mean, unless he like got freaked up by the

1793
01:39:10,320 --> 01:39:12,280
Speaker 1: stock market stuff. I don't think so.

1794
01:39:13,200 --> 01:39:14,360
Speaker 2: No, he's still alive, okay.

1795
01:39:15,479 --> 01:39:18,160
Speaker 1: And it's cool because it's like old parlor style magic.

1796
01:39:18,240 --> 01:39:20,920
Speaker 1: So this guy only sells, you know, maybe sixty tickets,

1797
01:39:20,920 --> 01:39:22,559
Speaker 1: Like he only has like the first three rows of

1798
01:39:22,560 --> 01:39:24,080
Speaker 1: this room because he wants you to get a clear

1799
01:39:24,200 --> 01:39:28,240
Speaker 1: view of what he's doing. And and he just he

1800
01:39:28,360 --> 01:39:32,320
Speaker 1: does amazing, amazing. I saw him twice, and the second

1801
01:39:32,360 --> 01:39:34,080
Speaker 1: time I saw him, I knew what to look for

1802
01:39:34,120 --> 01:39:35,920
Speaker 1: because it was like the same show. And I still

1803
01:39:35,960 --> 01:39:38,160
Speaker 1: couldn't figure out how he was doing stuff Like he

1804
01:39:38,200 --> 01:39:41,280
Speaker 1: would do things like take a bowler hat just to

1805
01:39:41,280 --> 01:39:42,679
Speaker 1: felt bowler hat and pass it around.

1806
01:39:42,760 --> 01:39:44,800
Speaker 2: We could all feel it, and he.

1807
01:39:44,800 --> 01:39:46,880
Speaker 1: Set it down on the table in front of him,

1808
01:39:46,880 --> 01:39:49,160
Speaker 1: which was like, you know, very thin legs and a

1809
01:39:49,200 --> 01:39:52,000
Speaker 1: thin top. There was no tablecloth on it, so there's

1810
01:39:52,080 --> 01:39:54,040
Speaker 1: no like hidden there's no way there could have been

1811
01:39:54,040 --> 01:39:57,360
Speaker 1: any kind of hidden contraptions. We handed them the bowler

1812
01:39:57,360 --> 01:40:01,000
Speaker 1: hat back. He set it down on the table. He

1813
01:40:01,040 --> 01:40:02,600
Speaker 1: didn't even remove his hand from as soon as he

1814
01:40:02,600 --> 01:40:04,439
Speaker 1: set it down on the table, he lifted it back up,

1815
01:40:04,479 --> 01:40:07,000
Speaker 1: and there's a brick under it, and.

1816
01:40:06,960 --> 01:40:09,200
Speaker 2: We looked at the brick, We looked at the table,

1817
01:40:09,240 --> 01:40:09,880
Speaker 2: we looked at the hat.

1818
01:40:10,000 --> 01:40:13,200
Speaker 1: Like I still, I went and saw it again and

1819
01:40:13,400 --> 01:40:15,479
Speaker 1: washed him the entire time because I knew what was

1820
01:40:15,520 --> 01:40:17,360
Speaker 1: coming and I couldn't figure out how he did it.

1821
01:40:17,360 --> 01:40:21,599
Speaker 1: He was absolutely amazing, and at the end of by

1822
01:40:21,640 --> 01:40:24,120
Speaker 1: the show, he basically just starts like freestyle riffing and

1823
01:40:24,160 --> 01:40:28,679
Speaker 1: pointing at people, just calling out random things. Earlier that day,

1824
01:40:28,880 --> 01:40:31,160
Speaker 1: when I went to see him, the front door to

1825
01:40:31,240 --> 01:40:33,280
Speaker 1: my apartment, like the one that leads to the street,

1826
01:40:34,080 --> 01:40:36,840
Speaker 1: had broken, and I was like, really, you know, I

1827
01:40:36,880 --> 01:40:38,439
Speaker 1: was like, oh, I hope somebody fixed that, because somebody

1828
01:40:38,479 --> 01:40:40,400
Speaker 1: could just come in off the street and open the

1829
01:40:40,400 --> 01:40:43,040
Speaker 1: door and come into our hallway. I didn't text anybody.

1830
01:40:43,040 --> 01:40:44,640
Speaker 1: I didn't text my super I probably should have. I

1831
01:40:44,640 --> 01:40:47,360
Speaker 1: didn't say a word about it. He points to me

1832
01:40:47,520 --> 01:40:49,400
Speaker 1: at this magic show and goes, you're worried about the

1833
01:40:49,400 --> 01:40:53,120
Speaker 1: front door of your apartment, and like, did you like

1834
01:40:53,640 --> 01:40:56,920
Speaker 1: did you do it? Like? Did you like it was

1835
01:40:56,960 --> 01:40:59,960
Speaker 1: really scary? Anyway? I alway. I say all this because

1836
01:41:00,400 --> 01:41:01,880
Speaker 1: when I went to see him the second time, Brian

1837
01:41:01,920 --> 01:41:03,800
Speaker 1: Cranston was there, and it was like a small room.

1838
01:41:03,920 --> 01:41:05,880
Speaker 1: It was like a room of like, you know, forty

1839
01:41:05,960 --> 01:41:10,120
Speaker 1: five fifty people. And for one of the tricks, he

1840
01:41:10,200 --> 01:41:13,679
Speaker 1: took Brian Creston's wedding ring and he had this whole

1841
01:41:13,680 --> 01:41:16,280
Speaker 1: bit where he like made it disappear, and then he

1842
01:41:16,479 --> 01:41:19,240
Speaker 1: cut into a lemon which.

1843
01:41:19,040 --> 01:41:20,360
Speaker 2: Had like an avocado.

1844
01:41:20,479 --> 01:41:22,800
Speaker 1: No, it was like there was a lemon, and then

1845
01:41:22,840 --> 01:41:25,680
Speaker 1: there's maybe like an egg within that, and like a

1846
01:41:25,760 --> 01:41:28,599
Speaker 1: walnut within that. It was like this whole Russian Dolls thing.

1847
01:41:28,640 --> 01:41:31,320
Speaker 1: And finally, in the very end, after cutting into all

1848
01:41:31,360 --> 01:41:34,000
Speaker 1: these items, he got Brian Cranston's wedding ring back.

1849
01:41:34,320 --> 01:41:34,960
Speaker 2: Good.

1850
01:41:35,160 --> 01:41:37,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, glad he got it back.

1851
01:41:37,400 --> 01:41:41,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, it probably wouldn't have been so great. I don't.

1852
01:41:42,000 --> 01:41:45,040
Speaker 2: I don't know how I feel about magic the gathering.

1853
01:41:45,360 --> 01:41:49,800
Speaker 2: No that I'm fine with. I mean like magicians because

1854
01:41:49,840 --> 01:41:52,639
Speaker 2: on one hand, because on one hand, it's like, yeah,

1855
01:41:52,760 --> 01:41:56,479
Speaker 2: you talk about this like when it's done well and

1856
01:41:56,520 --> 01:41:59,400
Speaker 2: in front of you, you're like, holy, you've seen the

1857
01:41:59,479 --> 01:42:02,479
Speaker 2: laws of space and time Ben did directly in front

1858
01:42:02,479 --> 01:42:06,400
Speaker 2: of me, Like this is magnificent. But I also question,

1859
01:42:07,080 --> 01:42:10,880
Speaker 2: you know, like why none of them are successful?

1860
01:42:11,160 --> 01:42:12,640
Speaker 1: Well, this guy's very successful.

1861
01:42:13,120 --> 01:42:15,120
Speaker 2: No, I mean like other than like yeah, I mean

1862
01:42:15,120 --> 01:42:18,320
Speaker 2: there's like a few random celebrity magicians, but like I

1863
01:42:18,360 --> 01:42:20,880
Speaker 2: don't know, I guess, like also like whither the celebrity

1864
01:42:20,960 --> 01:42:24,760
Speaker 2: music magician man? We ran out of Chris Angels, we

1865
01:42:24,880 --> 01:42:28,080
Speaker 2: ran out of David Blaine's. I guess Blaine's back, though

1866
01:42:28,080 --> 01:42:31,720
Speaker 2: he has like a new serial Blaine's back, a new

1867
01:42:31,800 --> 01:42:36,360
Speaker 2: series on f I think it Blaine is back. I

1868
01:42:36,400 --> 01:42:39,720
Speaker 2: didn't think the name David Blaine would be so comedically

1869
01:42:39,800 --> 01:42:41,519
Speaker 2: rich for you. It's good for what it does for

1870
01:42:41,560 --> 01:42:43,639
Speaker 2: the throat Blaine Blaine. Well.

1871
01:42:43,720 --> 01:42:47,920
Speaker 1: On the topic of TV shows, I didn't know this.

1872
01:42:48,360 --> 01:42:51,160
Speaker 1: Did you know that? Author Michael Crichton wrote the script

1873
01:42:51,240 --> 01:42:53,320
Speaker 1: for the hit show Er with the intention of it

1874
01:42:53,360 --> 01:42:56,040
Speaker 1: being made into a movie, and he set up a

1875
01:42:56,080 --> 01:42:58,519
Speaker 1: meeting with Steven Spielberg trying to pitch him the script,

1876
01:42:59,000 --> 01:43:01,920
Speaker 1: and instead all Spielberg wanted to talk to him about

1877
01:43:02,400 --> 01:43:06,679
Speaker 1: was his new novel, Jurassic Park. And that was how

1878
01:43:06,680 --> 01:43:07,320
Speaker 1: that happened.

1879
01:43:07,720 --> 01:43:08,400
Speaker 2: That's funny.

1880
01:43:08,479 --> 01:43:14,280
Speaker 1: I told you my Jurassic Park stories, right, Yes, that no,

1881
01:43:14,320 --> 01:43:18,200
Speaker 1: But I don't that well, how tragic are they? Oh? No,

1882
01:43:18,280 --> 01:43:20,559
Speaker 1: I mean I I was on the side of them

1883
01:43:20,560 --> 01:43:25,600
Speaker 1: as kids visiting out in Los Angeles. Yeah, And my

1884
01:43:25,720 --> 01:43:28,400
Speaker 1: main memory's going on to the set. It was for

1885
01:43:28,439 --> 01:43:31,360
Speaker 1: the sequels for Lost World, and they had a t

1886
01:43:31,560 --> 01:43:34,200
Speaker 1: rex that just the head and like kind of upper

1887
01:43:34,240 --> 01:43:37,880
Speaker 1: torso in the corner of the sound stage and its

1888
01:43:37,920 --> 01:43:41,160
Speaker 1: mouth was open, did I tell you this? And in

1889
01:43:41,320 --> 01:43:44,960
Speaker 1: the mouth of this t rex were all these styrofoam

1890
01:43:45,040 --> 01:43:47,519
Speaker 1: cups of coffee. It was like a big coffee tray

1891
01:43:47,800 --> 01:43:50,120
Speaker 1: and they're all being held in place by like the teeth.

1892
01:43:50,760 --> 01:43:54,679
Speaker 1: People would just go over there and help themselves to coffee.

1893
01:43:55,040 --> 01:43:58,000
Speaker 2: That is actually quite funny, good image. I like that.

1894
01:43:58,280 --> 01:43:59,120
Speaker 1: Wasn't there something we.

1895
01:43:59,000 --> 01:43:59,519
Speaker 2: Were talking about?

1896
01:43:59,520 --> 01:44:01,680
Speaker 1: I don't I it was with you, but we never

1897
01:44:01,880 --> 01:44:04,479
Speaker 1: Jurassic Parks. I don't know what it would have been,

1898
01:44:04,800 --> 01:44:09,240
Speaker 1: where somebody had climbed in like an animatronic creature to

1899
01:44:09,320 --> 01:44:12,000
Speaker 1: fix something and there was some kind of like like

1900
01:44:12,040 --> 01:44:14,040
Speaker 1: they tripped some kind of wire and the mouth of

1901
01:44:14,080 --> 01:44:15,439
Speaker 1: it closed with them in it.

1902
01:44:15,680 --> 01:44:18,519
Speaker 2: Oh God, yeah, I don't I can't recall that at

1903
01:44:18,520 --> 01:44:21,040
Speaker 2: the moment either. I don't know, dude. That stuff is

1904
01:44:21,080 --> 01:44:23,559
Speaker 2: like actually really scary, especially when you got back into

1905
01:44:23,600 --> 01:44:25,880
Speaker 2: like the wild FX days when they were just kind

1906
01:44:25,920 --> 01:44:28,640
Speaker 2: of inventing it whole cloth. And I mean, like, I

1907
01:44:28,680 --> 01:44:30,000
Speaker 2: think I talked about this in the Raiders of the

1908
01:44:30,080 --> 01:44:33,320
Speaker 2: Last Arc episode, but like, the guy who did the

1909
01:44:33,439 --> 01:44:37,880
Speaker 2: Nazi head explosion in that movie is a guy named

1910
01:44:37,920 --> 01:44:43,759
Speaker 2: Chris Wailis who also eventually worked on the Fly, and

1911
01:44:44,600 --> 01:44:47,400
Speaker 2: because he was a Cronenberg guy, he was Canadian and

1912
01:44:48,400 --> 01:44:52,640
Speaker 2: he just there's a famous head explosion in one of

1913
01:44:52,720 --> 01:44:55,840
Speaker 2: David Cronenberg's movies and Scanners that has just become like

1914
01:44:55,920 --> 01:45:00,800
Speaker 2: the most widely circulated gift because it's just this epically

1915
01:45:01,320 --> 01:45:06,639
Speaker 2: cinematic and gory head exploded. Guy's head just explodes, and

1916
01:45:07,280 --> 01:45:10,200
Speaker 2: they just did it by clearing the set and then

1917
01:45:10,360 --> 01:45:14,120
Speaker 2: shooting a shotgun at it, which was like also how

1918
01:45:14,160 --> 01:45:18,000
Speaker 2: they did the effect in raisal all starch. They were like, yeah,

1919
01:45:18,040 --> 01:45:22,160
Speaker 2: we're just gonna We're just gonna shoot it. Just like

1920
01:45:22,840 --> 01:45:24,640
Speaker 2: That's why I think I love all that, all that

1921
01:45:24,760 --> 01:45:26,800
Speaker 2: era of effects and stuff so much is because it

1922
01:45:26,840 --> 01:45:31,599
Speaker 2: was just these guys fully being like, yeah, we'll figure

1923
01:45:31,600 --> 01:45:34,280
Speaker 2: something out, and it was like, just shoot it with

1924
01:45:34,320 --> 01:45:39,599
Speaker 2: a gun, you know, so like yeah, like that sounds right.

1925
01:45:40,200 --> 01:45:42,600
Speaker 2: But the one from the one I always like is

1926
01:45:42,600 --> 01:45:47,719
Speaker 2: from Gremlins when he's like Zach asks the effects guy

1927
01:45:48,280 --> 01:45:51,080
Speaker 2: how big the explosion it'll be and the guy was like, oh,

1928
01:45:51,160 --> 01:45:58,120
Speaker 2: I put enough in like not an answer, but is

1929
01:45:58,200 --> 01:46:00,240
Speaker 2: still vaguely sinister. I know.

1930
01:46:00,479 --> 01:46:03,360
Speaker 1: I gotta say we started with a Jurassic Park.

1931
01:46:08,439 --> 01:46:19,640
Speaker 2: And you can see Dinassus Welcome to Tsic Park and

1932
01:46:19,800 --> 01:46:23,360
Speaker 2: Jeff for Bloomless.

1933
01:46:23,560 --> 01:46:25,439
Speaker 1: Well, I think because we came in on Jurassic Park,

1934
01:46:25,479 --> 01:46:26,800
Speaker 1: maybe this is a good note to end on.

1935
01:46:27,400 --> 01:46:29,880
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, okay, sure, sure, sure, sure sure?

1936
01:46:30,000 --> 01:46:32,479
Speaker 1: Did we give them value for money? Yeah that's about

1937
01:46:32,520 --> 01:46:33,400
Speaker 1: two hour episode.

1938
01:46:33,560 --> 01:46:36,400
Speaker 2: We'll see what the reviews say. No, what do I

1939
01:46:36,400 --> 01:46:37,599
Speaker 2: want to say about Jurassic Park?

1940
01:46:38,320 --> 01:46:40,160
Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah, please, I know that's one of your favorites.

1941
01:46:40,200 --> 01:46:43,120
Speaker 2: We should definitely do that. I know that's a big

1942
01:46:43,160 --> 01:46:45,320
Speaker 2: one for you. Yeah, there's just so much in it.

1943
01:46:46,439 --> 01:46:48,880
Speaker 2: I think I didn't really have much off the top

1944
01:46:48,880 --> 01:46:51,000
Speaker 2: of my head. I wish I had better stories about it.

1945
01:46:51,040 --> 01:46:53,439
Speaker 2: I mean I just kind of always am taking them

1946
01:46:53,479 --> 01:46:57,639
Speaker 2: back a new whenever people reveal, like whenever you learned

1947
01:46:57,680 --> 01:47:01,200
Speaker 2: how much of that film is actually justacticles, because it is,

1948
01:47:01,439 --> 01:47:05,360
Speaker 2: it's always really known as the film that like fully

1949
01:47:05,920 --> 01:47:08,960
Speaker 2: that in like Terminator two and the Abyss were like

1950
01:47:09,000 --> 01:47:13,040
Speaker 2: the ones that really broke like CGI wide and made it.

1951
01:47:13,120 --> 01:47:15,760
Speaker 2: You know, people realize what was possible with it. But

1952
01:47:16,200 --> 01:47:19,560
Speaker 2: so much of that movie is big dinosaur robots, like

1953
01:47:19,600 --> 01:47:22,520
Speaker 2: the one that you saw as a little boy, Jordan.

1954
01:47:22,880 --> 01:47:25,240
Speaker 1: There's great pictures of me as a little boy standing

1955
01:47:25,439 --> 01:47:30,479
Speaker 1: in the midst of a decaying rib cage of some

1956
01:47:31,000 --> 01:47:33,559
Speaker 1: large dinosaur. I have pieces of the set. I have

1957
01:47:33,640 --> 01:47:38,280
Speaker 1: like trisera toops, bones made of foam, and oh like

1958
01:47:38,360 --> 01:47:41,080
Speaker 1: weird mossy stuff and some other stuff I took from

1959
01:47:41,120 --> 01:47:41,920
Speaker 1: the set.

1960
01:47:42,320 --> 01:47:44,439
Speaker 2: Okay, well, let me see if I can get something

1961
01:47:44,520 --> 01:47:48,240
Speaker 2: from Jurassic Park three from two thousand and one. Why

1962
01:47:48,280 --> 01:47:52,240
Speaker 2: are you talking about SFX going haywire? There are baby

1963
01:47:52,400 --> 01:47:56,240
Speaker 2: Tyrannodons that attack a character at one point, and they

1964
01:47:56,720 --> 01:47:59,839
Speaker 2: the little animatronic robots that they use were actually capable

1965
01:47:59,880 --> 01:48:06,479
Speaker 2: of biting him. And did whoa Jurassic Park three? What

1966
01:48:06,560 --> 01:48:08,799
Speaker 2: a fun movie. That's the movie that has the famous

1967
01:48:08,880 --> 01:48:13,120
Speaker 2: it's like a gotcha gift. Now, It's like Sam Neil's

1968
01:48:13,160 --> 01:48:17,120
Speaker 2: character has a like a nightmare where he wakes up

1969
01:48:17,120 --> 01:48:19,080
Speaker 2: on a plane and he like turns around to the

1970
01:48:19,120 --> 01:48:21,960
Speaker 2: next door passenger and it's like a velociraptor.

1971
01:48:22,120 --> 01:48:29,680
Speaker 1: It's like, I just learned a fact about about what

1972
01:48:30,360 --> 01:48:33,680
Speaker 1: I'm so excited. I just acted that, Like literally, it

1973
01:48:33,800 --> 01:48:35,639
Speaker 1: just was up on my screen and I wasn't even

1974
01:48:35,680 --> 01:48:37,120
Speaker 1: trying to read it, but I just saw it.

1975
01:48:37,120 --> 01:48:38,600
Speaker 2: Now what you know?

1976
01:48:38,680 --> 01:48:43,080
Speaker 1: And The Godfather when when James Cohn as Sonny Corleone

1977
01:48:43,840 --> 01:48:47,639
Speaker 1: goes and beats up the deadbeat husband of his sister

1978
01:48:47,760 --> 01:48:49,519
Speaker 1: who was slapping his sister.

1979
01:48:49,880 --> 01:48:52,200
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, and he like bites him on the knuckles

1980
01:48:52,320 --> 01:48:56,719
Speaker 2: and like covers him in trash. Yeah. The greatest fight scenes.

1981
01:48:57,040 --> 01:49:01,160
Speaker 1: Yes, apparently in that fight scene, the guy who played

1982
01:49:01,360 --> 01:49:05,679
Speaker 1: was that Carlo, Yeah, Carlo Johnny Russo broke two ribs

1983
01:49:05,920 --> 01:49:09,000
Speaker 1: and cracked an elbow in that fight scene.

1984
01:49:08,720 --> 01:49:13,599
Speaker 2: Because James because Khan was just actually beating his ass,

1985
01:49:13,800 --> 01:49:18,040
Speaker 2: actually slamming a garbage can on him. That's incredible. I

1986
01:49:18,080 --> 01:49:21,120
Speaker 2: didn't know that until right now. Oh man, good for him,

1987
01:49:21,400 --> 01:49:23,839
Speaker 2: Good for James con. You know what I watched recently

1988
01:49:23,960 --> 01:49:27,559
Speaker 2: was Thief, the Michael Man movie that he's in. Wow. Yeah,

1989
01:49:27,600 --> 01:49:30,320
Speaker 2: it's funny. It's not, it's not. I don't think it's wonderful,

1990
01:49:30,320 --> 01:49:33,320
Speaker 2: but it's like James Belushi in it in like a

1991
01:49:33,560 --> 01:49:36,439
Speaker 2: serious role, which is really kind of odd to see.

1992
01:49:36,479 --> 01:49:41,680
Speaker 2: But but yeah, it's a good, good movie. All right,

1993
01:49:42,240 --> 01:49:44,880
Speaker 2: James Kahn, everyone.

1994
01:49:44,960 --> 01:49:46,520
Speaker 1: Let's get the last word.

1995
01:49:46,840 --> 01:49:50,360
Speaker 2: James conn Yeah, he's he's dead. But don't with him

1996
01:49:50,560 --> 01:49:58,679
Speaker 2: because he because we will actually kill you. Okay, Well,

1997
01:49:58,720 --> 01:50:00,360
Speaker 2: I had a really good till I thought that. Yeah,

1998
01:50:00,479 --> 01:50:02,320
Speaker 2: so did I. So did I. I felt like I ran

1999
01:50:02,360 --> 01:50:04,000
Speaker 2: out of steam there. I'm trying to think of what

2000
01:50:04,040 --> 01:50:04,799
Speaker 2: else I can.

2001
01:50:04,880 --> 01:50:06,760
Speaker 1: I mean, you you were you were riffing more than

2002
01:50:06,800 --> 01:50:09,719
Speaker 1: I more than I had, so it's it's quite all wow.

2003
01:50:10,040 --> 01:50:14,200
Speaker 2: All right, all right, well folks sound off in the comments.

2004
01:50:14,600 --> 01:50:16,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, let us know what you think. I had a blast.

2005
01:50:16,800 --> 01:50:20,479
Speaker 2: If you hated this, I you know we're going to

2006
01:50:20,560 --> 01:50:23,679
Speaker 2: get back to writing them and doing you know, big

2007
01:50:23,720 --> 01:50:28,200
Speaker 2: boy work at some point, but not this week. Because

2008
01:50:28,240 --> 01:50:33,439
Speaker 2: life is cruel and so meaningless and loves to kick

2009
01:50:33,479 --> 01:50:34,840
Speaker 2: you when you're down.

2010
01:50:35,120 --> 01:50:37,280
Speaker 1: This kind of took just as much work as as

2011
01:50:37,479 --> 01:50:39,719
Speaker 1: normal one did. At the end of the day.

2012
01:50:40,400 --> 01:50:42,320
Speaker 2: Well, it'll be for you, for you for editing.

2013
01:50:42,800 --> 01:50:45,200
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, this will be when all is said and

2014
01:50:45,280 --> 01:50:48,960
Speaker 1: done with the editing. This will take me twice, I'm sure. Well,

2015
01:50:49,040 --> 01:50:50,439
Speaker 1: but I had a lot of fun.

2016
01:50:50,760 --> 01:50:51,000
Speaker 2: Good.

2017
01:50:51,000 --> 01:50:52,840
Speaker 1: I think this is really and you know what, I've

2018
01:50:52,840 --> 01:50:57,040
Speaker 1: only gone through half my facts, so wow, more, folks,

2019
01:50:57,439 --> 01:50:59,000
Speaker 1: there's plenty more where this came from.

2020
01:50:59,200 --> 01:51:02,719
Speaker 2: Yeah or not? And you two can learn facts.

2021
01:51:03,560 --> 01:51:06,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, seriously, let us know. I'm interested to hear people

2022
01:51:06,360 --> 01:51:10,120
Speaker 1: are into this. If not, that's okay too. But please,

2023
01:51:10,160 --> 01:51:12,599
Speaker 1: please don't want star reviews. Please, you know what, if

2024
01:51:12,600 --> 01:51:14,800
Speaker 1: you don't like it, leave a five star review and

2025
01:51:14,880 --> 01:51:16,960
Speaker 1: tell us that and that'll we'll never do it again.

2026
01:51:17,120 --> 01:51:19,000
Speaker 1: And I like it, leave a five star review.

2027
01:51:19,520 --> 01:51:27,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll get to it. Play me out. I'm playing

2028
01:51:27,280 --> 01:51:27,879
Speaker 2: us out.

2029
01:51:28,120 --> 01:51:40,720
Speaker 4: And this has been Jordan's I'm dying here.

2030
01:51:40,800 --> 01:51:42,160
Speaker 2: Do you do your tag?

2031
01:51:43,439 --> 01:51:44,839
Speaker 1: And you started?

2032
01:51:46,040 --> 01:51:46,719
Speaker 2: No, I can't.

2033
01:51:46,720 --> 01:51:51,599
Speaker 1: I have to say, okay, well folk, thanks for well Fox,

2034
01:51:51,640 --> 01:51:52,439
Speaker 1: thanks for listening.

2035
01:51:53,200 --> 01:51:56,439
Speaker 2: My name is Jordan Round Talk, and I'm Alex Igo

2036
01:51:57,240 --> 01:52:08,800
Speaker 2: you and we'll catch you. Too. Much Information was a

2037
01:52:08,800 --> 01:52:12,679
Speaker 2: production of iHeartRadio. The show's executive producers are Noel Brown

2038
01:52:12,720 --> 01:52:13,679
Speaker 2: and Jordan Runtogg.

2039
01:52:13,840 --> 01:52:16,719
Speaker 1: The show's supervising producer is Michael Alder June.

2040
01:52:16,960 --> 01:52:20,080
Speaker 2: The show was researched, written and hosted by Jordan Runtogg

2041
01:52:20,120 --> 01:52:21,280
Speaker 2: and Alex Heigel.

2042
01:52:21,080 --> 01:52:24,280
Speaker 1: With original music by step Applebaum and the Ghost Funk Orchestra.

2043
01:52:24,640 --> 01:52:26,640
Speaker 2: If you like what you heard, please subscribe and leave

2044
01:52:26,720 --> 01:52:27,200
Speaker 2: us a review.

2045
01:52:27,479 --> 01:52:31,840
Speaker 1: For more podcasts on iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

2046
01:52:32,040 --> 01:52:33,719
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.