1 00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 1: Welcome back to another episode of Cutting the Distance. Today. 2 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:16,440 Speaker 1: I'm here with my good buddy Dirk Durham and co host, 3 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:19,800 Speaker 1: and we're gonna we're gonna jump into a topic that, uh, 4 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:22,319 Speaker 1: you know, its sparks a lot of debate, you know, 5 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 1: within the hunting community, outside the hunting community, maybe even 6 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:29,160 Speaker 1: more so trophy hunting versus meat hunting. And I don't 7 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: even understand what the difference is, but it's also being 8 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 1: thrown around now, you know, in potential legislation and bills. 9 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 1: I know it was specifically put in the Colorado bill 10 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:40,479 Speaker 1: that just thankfully got you know, shot down by the voters, 11 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:43,519 Speaker 1: you know, trophy hunting, and it's in my opinion, it's 12 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:47,519 Speaker 1: used to romanticize and pull the heartstrings of the voters 13 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 1: and then some of what I would call like the 14 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:52,600 Speaker 1: over the top, crazy, protect animal at all costs types 15 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 1: of people. So welcome to the show, Derek. 16 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, how's it going? 17 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:00,640 Speaker 1: Good? Good hunting season for the most parts, all wrapped 18 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 1: up for us and getting back to some normal topics 19 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 1: that don't that that are a little bit different than 20 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:08,720 Speaker 1: our normal you know, tips and tactics, technical stuff. So 21 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 1: kind of kind of excited to jump into this one. 22 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 1: I was reading the social post the other day and 23 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:16,319 Speaker 1: it was from a newspaper, you know, so I'm sitting 24 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:19,760 Speaker 1: there thinking, oh, I'm I'm I'm not overly dramatic, but 25 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 1: I like to see both sides, right, you know. From 26 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 1: when it's a newspaper, you're gonna get the hunters and 27 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:26,680 Speaker 1: the anna hunters. So I mean, not being able to 28 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:28,679 Speaker 1: help myself, I click on the comment section just because 29 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 1: I like a good you know, some mudslinging and like 30 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 1: to see that. I like to see the pigs wrestle 31 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:36,399 Speaker 1: in the mud a little bit. And and I kind 32 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 1: of seen how some of the hunters responded, you know, 33 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 1: back and forth, and why the other side, you know, 34 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 1: the trophy hunting, the protect trophy hunting. Trophy hunting is 35 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 1: bad type people. They they're completely wrong. They do a 36 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 1: better job at talking at time versus you know, the 37 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 1: majority of hunters are just like, trophy hunting is good. 38 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 1: I'll shoot what I want and I'll shoot as much 39 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 1: as I want. Now my list isn't good messaging either, 40 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 1: So I'm like, uh, let's throw it on the podcast. 41 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:05,440 Speaker 1: And I've always had a lot of thoughts and confusion 42 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:09,120 Speaker 1: and h just what is trophy hunting? You know, I 43 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:10,920 Speaker 1: think that's where you have to kind of start. If 44 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:12,520 Speaker 1: we're going to throw a word out there, we should 45 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:15,240 Speaker 1: all be able to understand, you know, what it means. 46 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 1: So in your opinion, what would you or how would 47 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:20,519 Speaker 1: you define what is trophy hunting? 48 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 2: Or once it's you, I think that's almost like a 49 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 2: loaded question. It's kind of like one of those it 50 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 2: means something to everyone differently. It's almost like to me, 51 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 2: it's almost like ethics, right, So if you ask one 52 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:42,240 Speaker 2: person to say, okay, what's ethical behavior there, you get 53 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:44,120 Speaker 2: get a room full of people and you ask each person. 54 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 2: Each person's going to give you a different, you know, 55 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 2: take on it. And I think trophy hunting is a 56 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 2: lot like that. If it's coming from an anti hunting perspective, 57 00:02:56,600 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 2: Trophy hunting is basically you're killing an animal for its 58 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:07,800 Speaker 2: antlers or skull, hide, whatever whatever its attributes are. You're 59 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 2: killing it for that physical attribute and discarding anything else about, 60 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:18,079 Speaker 2: you know, with the animal, which from a hunting perspective, 61 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:24,360 Speaker 2: that's not necessarily accurate because a lot of people will 62 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 2: say trophy hunting is you know, they're they are looking 63 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 2: for the largest biggest measuring animal they can find for 64 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 2: their tag. But they're not they're not wasting meat, you know, 65 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 2: they're not just shooting an animal and leaving you know, 66 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 2: taking you know, taking the antlers or the hide or 67 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 2: the head and just leaving it to waste. That's not 68 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 2: that's that's actually poaching, you know, because you know that's 69 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 2: that's illegal. So so as hunters, you know, you know, 70 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 2: we're going to shoot a big elk, for instance, the 71 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 2: big like a trophy a trophy hunt or a trophy hunter. 72 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 2: You're try to shoot the biggest one you can get 73 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 2: because it's probably a limited opportunity, maybe almost a once 74 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 2: in a lifetime chance for you to kill a really mature, 75 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 2: big antlered elk. But you're going to take that meat 76 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:20,839 Speaker 2: home too, or share it with friends, but the meat 77 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 2: will be harvested as well. Now you're going to put 78 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:25,839 Speaker 2: that that set of antlers on your wall, whether you 79 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:29,480 Speaker 2: put on a shoulder mount or a European mount. And 80 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:34,920 Speaker 2: you know, the anti hunters feel that's disgusting. They don't 81 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 2: understand though, that we're at that point you're honoring that animal, 82 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:40,679 Speaker 2: right you're putting it on the wall. I mean that 83 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:44,360 Speaker 2: that animal's life will be remembered for as long as 84 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:49,480 Speaker 2: those antlers are in existence. Right that that animal's life 85 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:52,680 Speaker 2: is honored. It's the hunt was honored. You know, everything 86 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 2: about it is honored. Whereas they don't see it that way. 87 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:59,360 Speaker 2: They don't have that understanding of it. I guess they 88 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 2: just look at as a like a prize or a trophy, 89 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:04,279 Speaker 2: like like a trophy that you would win at a 90 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 2: you know, race or or something. 91 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:09,839 Speaker 1: So let me in this. I have to apologize. I 92 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 1: told Dirk before this podcast, but this one, this whole 93 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:14,919 Speaker 1: topic is like a soup sandwich because I've tried to 94 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:16,600 Speaker 1: like how am I going to organize this? How are 95 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 1: we not going to go left and right and keep 96 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 1: this thing in the middle. So I'm gonna apologize. But 97 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 1: so by that definition, so my son's got his first buck, 98 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 1: which is a fork and horn on his wall, is 99 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 1: he now a trophy hunter or is it just that 100 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 1: he's proud? You know? So it's like, how do you 101 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: you know, defining it by by antlers on the wall. 102 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 1: It's like similar to you, I, you know, we have 103 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 1: a lot of family gatherings at my house. We you know, 104 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:41,720 Speaker 1: we built my house to do that. Sort of thing. 105 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 1: And I've got quite a few animals on the wall, 106 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 1: but those more than the trophy. Yeah, it's an higher call, 107 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 1: you know, higher caliber type animal. You know that that 108 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 1: we but there's not a single uncle or dad or 109 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 1: somebody involved in that hunt that doesn't come in my 110 00:05:56,960 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 1: house and we can sit and tell a thirty minute 111 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:01,159 Speaker 1: story about that and how cold it was or how 112 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:03,279 Speaker 1: hot it was, or who ran out of water, who 113 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:06,039 Speaker 1: forgot their lunch, you know which one of my overweight 114 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:08,279 Speaker 1: uncles ran out of food and had to beg for somebody. 115 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 2: You know. 116 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 1: It's like those sort of things. So it's like trophy 117 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 1: hunting in that aspect, Like in a roundabout way, it 118 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 1: met some sort of criteria that I had to get 119 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 1: it on the wall, but those are the me you know. 120 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 1: It somehow, in a roundabout way still leads the memories 121 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 1: and everything. So it's it's very hard to describe, and 122 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:33,360 Speaker 1: I've always struggled with especially when you let so let's 123 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 1: go back to trophy hunting versus meat hunting, and not 124 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:38,279 Speaker 1: to get overly scientific, they both obviously have the word 125 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:41,160 Speaker 1: hunting in it, but then it's like you go and 126 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:44,919 Speaker 1: treat trophy hunting like it's some separate thing you know 127 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 1: out in the woods or out in the mountains or 128 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:48,920 Speaker 1: out in the tree stand. Like if your trophy hunting, 129 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:52,239 Speaker 1: you're doing something different than the meat hunter, right, which 130 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 1: I've always struggled like how do you make that connection? 131 00:06:56,040 --> 00:07:00,800 Speaker 1: Because I'm doing the same regardless of I'm doing the 132 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:05,920 Speaker 1: same thing, and and so it's not like this separate thing. 133 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 1: When you hear somebody say, oh, they're going trophy hunting 134 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 1: or they are trophy hunting, It's like, no, it's the 135 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 1: same damn thing as the meat hunter. I just upset 136 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 1: a different a different Like I've moved the bar, right, 137 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 1: I've moved the bar to a different level. And we're 138 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 1: gonna get into it, like a lot of times for 139 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 1: me if you want to lay, you know, we're gonna 140 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 1: be labeled a trophy hunter versus a non It's like 141 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 1: what tag do I have? What what is available on 142 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 1: this hunt? Like what's the odds of killing something better 143 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 1: or bigger? Or is it a unit that's managed for 144 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 1: certain things. So I've always struggled with like, it's not 145 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 1: a separate thing. It's the same dang thing. You know, 146 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 1: it's you're hunting, it's just whether you've put a certain 147 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 1: a certain limitation on what you're willing to not your 148 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:54,480 Speaker 1: tag on. And so I've struggled with that, you know, 149 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 1: a lot, and then you alluded to it. You know, 150 00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 1: there's this idea that you know, and this is I 151 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 1: think this is what the anti hunts, the animal lovers 152 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 1: whatever we're going to refer to them as, Like, this 153 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 1: is the picture that they want to paint, is the 154 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 1: idea that trophy hunters go out there, they're there for 155 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 1: nothing but the horns, and then they basically walk away 156 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 1: from the meat. Right, Like you know, we've talked about that. 157 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 1: It's I don't know anybody that considers themselves a hunter 158 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 1: or somebody that I would consider a hunter, that would 159 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 1: ever do that, even if you want to consider yourself 160 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:26,400 Speaker 1: a trophy hunter. That and this is where I get 161 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 1: a little little on the fence about it is, you know, 162 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:33,440 Speaker 1: and then you get the word thrill killer out there, 163 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 1: like are you just hunting for strictly the sport? Like 164 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:38,319 Speaker 1: you just want to challenge to kill an animal that's 165 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 1: got you know, these senses and eyesight and all this 166 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:44,200 Speaker 1: stuff to challenge you, and then you donate the meat. Right, 167 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:46,200 Speaker 1: So you're out there, You're not gonna eat any of it, 168 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:48,679 Speaker 1: you don't want to deal with it. But even then 169 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:51,439 Speaker 1: I would question, like, is there a more charitable act 170 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 1: than that? Like that person went out there, spent their 171 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:57,599 Speaker 1: own money, use their own resources, and then most of 172 00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 1: the time they donate to a food bank, people and 173 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 1: more needs. So it's like, is there a more charitable 174 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:04,720 Speaker 1: selfless act than feeding someone else with your own money? 175 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 1: And so I can't really shy at that either. 176 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 2: Well, I mean, which is harder buying a couple of 177 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 2: turkeys and taking them to the food bank and getting 178 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 2: that and spending money or whatever it is buying half 179 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:19,120 Speaker 2: of a beef and taking it to the food bank, 180 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 2: spending a bunch of money donating the food bank, or 181 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:25,320 Speaker 2: just making a monetary donation. I mean that's a good feeling, sure, 182 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:31,200 Speaker 2: but the effort that took for that donation is I 183 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 2: mean you had to earn the money, Yeah, of course, 184 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 2: but to go on a trophy hunt, let's say you 185 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 2: don't want to eat the meat, or don't like wild game, 186 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 2: or can't transport it whatever, you had to like earn 187 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:45,840 Speaker 2: the money. You had to acquire the license tag, then 188 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:48,559 Speaker 2: you had to show up and then do all the work. 189 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:53,480 Speaker 2: And let's face it, sometimes these trophy hunting units as 190 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 2: some call them, it's not an easy hunt. You still 191 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:59,679 Speaker 2: have to show up and hunt hard, and it's physically demanding. 192 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:03,079 Speaker 2: You have to you have to break the animal down, 193 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:08,079 Speaker 2: keep the meat clean, keep it sanitary, remove it from 194 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 2: the field, have it packaged, process and then put it 195 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:14,960 Speaker 2: to take it to the food bank. I mean, I 196 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 2: don't know any of that. That's way harder than just 197 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 2: giving a charitable, charitable donation to the food bank. From 198 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 2: a non hunting. 199 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 1: Perspective, yep. And I can't. I can't frown upon somebody 200 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:28,960 Speaker 1: wanting and I would be lying to say that at 201 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:31,719 Speaker 1: times I don't hunt for the support of it right. 202 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 1: To be honest, I'd be four hundred pounds and still 203 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 1: six foot three if it wasn't fronting. So I'm out 204 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:41,080 Speaker 1: there to get in shape. I love seeing new places. 205 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:43,880 Speaker 1: I love you know, all of this, and so it's 206 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 1: like that there's part of me that that loves the challenge, 207 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:51,920 Speaker 1: like I could. How am I going to say in it? 208 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 1: My intention is not to put down meat hunters at all, 209 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 1: because anybody that knows my background, you know, my my upbringing, 210 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 1: we never passed a legal ball. We would sometimes, you know, 211 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 1: growing up, we'd let some smaller bucks go depending on 212 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:09,320 Speaker 1: what the meat situation was, how much meat we had 213 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:11,440 Speaker 1: left over from last year, what the cooler was looking like. 214 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 1: So in no way, but I would say every time 215 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 1: meat hunting is easier, right, meat hunting is always going 216 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 1: to be easier. It's always going to be easier than 217 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 1: trophy hunting, and so so from a conservation and I'm 218 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:28,559 Speaker 1: not trying to sit on a high horse here by 219 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:32,439 Speaker 1: no means, but by me being and I wouldn't consider 220 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 1: myself a trophyuntner. I'm just a guy that's out there 221 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 1: wanting to find something above average. We'll say that by 222 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 1: doing that, I'm actually helping out on the conservation side, right, 223 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:47,200 Speaker 1: Like I'm I'm letting a younger animal, you know, live 224 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:50,319 Speaker 1: another day. I'm letting that animal grow up to be 225 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 1: a little bit older. I'm helping keep the numbers up 226 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:56,200 Speaker 1: for the chance that I may not kill something by 227 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 1: the end of that hunt. And so you know, so 228 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:00,440 Speaker 1: when it comes to this conservation side, it's like, all right, 229 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:05,720 Speaker 1: I feel that trophy hunting or is better for for 230 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:07,599 Speaker 1: for the animals on the landscape. It's it's going to 231 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:12,079 Speaker 1: give you more more numbers. It's you know, you you 232 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:14,200 Speaker 1: give them a chance to get a little bit older 233 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:15,960 Speaker 1: and a little bit smarter, which I think helps it. 234 00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 1: You know, these anybody that toned for very long. You know, 235 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:22,959 Speaker 1: your your does and fawns always feel the safest. Your 236 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 1: small bucks, you know, sometimes feel more safe than that. 237 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 1: I guess as well. But you know, those animals are 238 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:32,840 Speaker 1: the low hanging fruit and and uh yeah, there's that 239 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 1: argument as well that, uh, you know, by not being 240 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:38,400 Speaker 1: a meat hunter, you're actually helping keep more animals on 241 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:40,360 Speaker 1: the ground as well. 242 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:43,480 Speaker 2: When I was a kid, we had a lot of 243 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 2: deer around where I lived, and I mean there were 244 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:48,719 Speaker 2: a ton of deer. And after the first couple of 245 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:53,440 Speaker 2: years of deer hunting, it became apparent that, you know, 246 00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 2: with just a little bit of effort, I'd be able 247 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:58,640 Speaker 2: to go out and shoot a deer for meat. My family, 248 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:04,200 Speaker 2: you know, it's always been you know, meat hunters, and 249 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 2: my dad, like especially, he's like, I don't want to 250 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:10,200 Speaker 2: stinking bucks or I don't know want those stinking bulls. 251 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:14,680 Speaker 2: You know, he only shot one antlered animal my entire life. 252 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 2: You know, when he was a young man. I think 253 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 2: he shot some, but most of his life he shot 254 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:23,320 Speaker 2: you know, cow's cow, elk and doe deer. But I 255 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:26,640 Speaker 2: loved to hunt. I hunted. I wanted to hunt every 256 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 2: single day. I didn't play sports. I wanted to hunt 257 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:31,199 Speaker 2: every single day. I'd go out before school, I'd go 258 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 2: out after school. So if I tagged out on the 259 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 2: first nice dough, I saw my season was going to 260 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:44,600 Speaker 2: be over. So selfishly, I wanted to hunt more. So 261 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:47,199 Speaker 2: I'm like, I want to hold out for a big buck. 262 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:50,080 Speaker 2: This is when I first started hunting deer. I didn't 263 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:51,960 Speaker 2: have I didn't hunt helk yet, and I just wanted 264 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 2: to shoot a really big buck. And I'm mature deer 265 00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 2: because I wanted to keep hunting, right, so I was. 266 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:03,600 Speaker 2: So I started passing little bucks, started passing doughs and 267 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:07,200 Speaker 2: stuff until I could kill a big buck. And it 268 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:10,080 Speaker 2: made my season longer. And just for the love of 269 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 2: being out there. You know, I loved being outdoors. I 270 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:16,160 Speaker 2: love I loved seeing lots of animals, I loved I 271 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 2: loved everything about it. And then you know, with the 272 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 2: possibility of like maybe getting a big one, and there 273 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:24,640 Speaker 2: was lots of little ones, that got away and some 274 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 2: big ones that got away too, because you're like someone 275 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 2: picking up Oh he's gone yep. So I don't see it. 276 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:32,560 Speaker 2: I don't see a problem with it. 277 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, so let's get We'll start with in my the 278 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 1: arguments for trophy hunting. And I hate when we talk 279 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:44,200 Speaker 1: about wildlife and it comes down to funding for conservation. Right, 280 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 1: So funding all of our states, I believe all are 281 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 1: managed by a fishing game agency of some sort. You know, 282 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 1: trophy hunts or trophy hunting is you know, conducted through 283 00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 1: a regulated system where there's permits and fees. Those funds 284 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 1: are then used to support the wages, you know, the biologists, 285 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:11,560 Speaker 1: the legislative people, the concert you know, that money goes 286 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 1: the conservation initiatives, you know, your anti poaching efforts, you know, 287 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 1: even local communities trophy hunting or what. And throughout this, 288 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:23,880 Speaker 1: throughout this podcast, I'm gonna use trophy hunting just so 289 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 1: we can stay on topic. I don't necessarily consider it 290 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 1: trophy hunting, but for you know, the keep us on. 291 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:31,560 Speaker 1: So trophy hunting, you know, you go to some of 292 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 1: these places in rule New Mexico, trophy hunting and the 293 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 1: good units that funds an entire community that funds most 294 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 1: of our fishing game agencies. You know, I always me 295 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 1: and Dirk argue all the time about non residence funding 296 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 1: Idaho's fishing game. But if there wasn't a potential for 297 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 1: me to draw a good tag, there are years I 298 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:53,880 Speaker 1: wouldn't buy one hundred and fifty dollars license. So then 299 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 1: I could put my whatever it is, twelve fifteen dollars absent, right, 300 00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 1: So that one hundred and seventy dollars, whether it's a 301 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 1: donation or not, I've drawn one take there. But you 302 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 1: give them that money, and that is what runs that states. 303 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 1: You know, whether it's winter feed. I don't even know 304 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 1: if you guys want her feed. I'm just going through 305 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 1: things in other states that do that sort of stuff. 306 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 1: So that funding for conservation is and I believe I 307 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 1: heard Clay newcom our good buddy Clay, who has a 308 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:25,680 Speaker 1: great podcast over there at Bear Grease, when he was 309 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 1: on the Rogan podcast. Rogan brought up the topic of 310 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 1: trophy hunting, and I Clay did a great job on 311 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 1: this topic. Trophy hunting, the idea of trophy hunting is 312 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:41,360 Speaker 1: maybe what saved our big game herds. Anyways, right, because 313 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:44,400 Speaker 1: and the same thing that saved African game animals, it 314 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 1: finally put a value on them, which then detoured the 315 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:50,840 Speaker 1: poachers because the people that put value on them now 316 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 1: protected those animals, right, And so without that protection of 317 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 1: being labeled a trophy animal or the animal itself now 318 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:03,520 Speaker 1: having some intrinsic value more than the meat, actually help 319 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 1: save the popular you know, help in in in a way, 320 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:10,080 Speaker 1: save that population. So there's funding in conservation. But then 321 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 1: that funding or the value that we put on bait. 322 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:14,040 Speaker 1: You know, if you can imagine a deer walking around 323 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:15,880 Speaker 1: with a five hundred dollars bill, you know, above their head, 324 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 1: like on the cartoons or on video games, like that 325 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 1: deer has value now because of what's the potential that's 326 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:23,960 Speaker 1: on his head. Whether that's right or wrong or maybe 327 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 1: that's where you know, meat hunters can say, like, but 328 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 1: it shouldn't have a value like that because of what's 329 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 1: on its head. But I would I would love to 330 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:36,479 Speaker 1: debate them or challenge them. Would that deer exist in 331 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 1: that place? If we just let meat hunters go and 332 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:41,919 Speaker 1: you know, go gather all the meat they want, there 333 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:43,919 Speaker 1: wouldn't be a whole lot left, right, We wouldn't have 334 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:45,480 Speaker 1: anything to hunt, So there's got to be some sort 335 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 1: of management, which, in a round about way, I'm getting 336 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:50,480 Speaker 1: back to the funding. Because the trophy animals and the 337 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:52,159 Speaker 1: value that these these critters. 338 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 2: Do have, yeah, absolutely, you know it put it put 339 00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 2: big game animals on a pedestal to where people respected 340 00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 2: them and respect to their value instead of just considering 341 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:07,479 Speaker 2: them just a food source. Which, yeah, you're you're you're 342 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:08,400 Speaker 2: one hundred percent right. 343 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:19,960 Speaker 1: I'm not a biologist by any means, but I've been 344 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:22,199 Speaker 1: around hunting my whole life. I've talked to you know, 345 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 1: I've interviewed tons of biologists here. You've been around animals 346 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:27,640 Speaker 1: your whole life. I feel that once again we're going 347 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 1: back to trophy hunting. Trophy hunting is good for managing populations. 348 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:35,879 Speaker 1: That's selective hunting of mature animals, whether they're past their 349 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:38,160 Speaker 1: breeding prime, whatever we want to get into on that. 350 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:41,680 Speaker 1: It's a it's a good method. Like we've in areas 351 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:45,920 Speaker 1: where it's managed very well. And I have to I'm 352 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:48,359 Speaker 1: not a very experienced whitetail hunter. I'm three years in. 353 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 1: But I let's go to like the Midwest where I 354 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:54,600 Speaker 1: would say you're able to manage a a tight knit 355 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 1: population very very well. Right, They've shown through years and 356 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:02,960 Speaker 1: years of doing this that it aids in the health 357 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:05,920 Speaker 1: of your herd. You've got better animals on the landscape, 358 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:09,840 Speaker 1: you've got and so by shooting these these younger animals 359 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 1: and then you've got older animals die off well, by 360 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:13,879 Speaker 1: shooting the older animal that would die off within a 361 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:15,320 Speaker 1: couple of years, you give the a chance for that 362 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:18,879 Speaker 1: younger buck to escape into all of these things. And 363 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:20,720 Speaker 1: I think out west, like we should just be able 364 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:24,600 Speaker 1: to translate, you you know, transpose and move that out here. Now. 365 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:26,800 Speaker 1: I know there's other factors. You know, we've got more predators, 366 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:29,200 Speaker 1: we've gotten more of this or that, But I feel 367 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 1: like the trophy hunting mindset, killing that older, you know, 368 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:37,920 Speaker 1: animal that's rutted hard, it's more susceptive to dying off 369 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:41,200 Speaker 1: on a bad winter. It's going to help manage populations, 370 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:44,919 Speaker 1: which gives people more opportunity, more tags, longer seasons, all 371 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 1: of the things that we all love, whether you're a 372 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:49,400 Speaker 1: meat hunter or or a trophy hunter. Oh. 373 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 2: Absolutely, it's It's very apparent. If you look at any 374 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:57,520 Speaker 2: any Western state, southwestern state, anywhere they have we have elk, 375 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 2: mule deer, and you look a limited entry units, limited 376 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:05,919 Speaker 2: entry areas like or even like Arizona for instance, that 377 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:09,680 Speaker 2: you know they got fantastic elk in the areas they're 378 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:12,800 Speaker 2: you know, it's very limited and people are trying to 379 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:15,280 Speaker 2: kill a trophy bowl, you know, a very mature bowl 380 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:20,600 Speaker 2: utah mule deer in anywhere or in eastern Montana, we're 381 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:24,560 Speaker 2: very limited access and they have giant elk and huge 382 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:27,440 Speaker 2: olcrds everywhere. It's if they just let people go shoot 383 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 2: those indiscriminately, like okay, here's your general tag, go ahead, 384 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 2: those herds would not be what they are. I mean, 385 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:36,960 Speaker 2: there's no argument about it, because you can reference other 386 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:39,440 Speaker 2: areas where they do have a general over the cat 387 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:44,840 Speaker 2: over the countertype tag and the herds are not as flourishing. 388 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:47,400 Speaker 2: There's just not as many elk or deer on the landscape. 389 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:49,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, we a lot of people in the 390 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:52,760 Speaker 1: hunting community, like the rag on or or you know, 391 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:56,439 Speaker 1: instantly say that fishing game offices or agencies don't do 392 00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 1: a good job managing I think across the West they 393 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:01,400 Speaker 1: did a pretty good job of giving us a pretty 394 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:04,080 Speaker 1: good balance of opportunity versus like trophy. So I think, 395 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:07,360 Speaker 1: you know, there's there's over the county units where you're 396 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:09,399 Speaker 1: gonna go, you know, ride the struggle bus and you're 397 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:11,240 Speaker 1: gonna have a ten percent chance, and then there's gonna 398 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 1: be units where you have a forty percent chance of 399 00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 1: success and have a chance at a giant bowl. So 400 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:18,720 Speaker 1: the one thing in this big and I don't I 401 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:21,480 Speaker 1: don't envy their position at all because they're trying to balance, 402 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:24,399 Speaker 1: you know, the extreme meat hunter to the extreme trophy 403 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:26,720 Speaker 1: hunter and everybody in between. You everybody wants something different, 404 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:32,120 Speaker 1: everybody hunts with a different weapon. But yeah, it's they there. 405 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:36,879 Speaker 1: There's drastic differences on the landscape when a unit's managed 406 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:40,560 Speaker 1: for trophy potential and trophy quality versus opportunity, you know, 407 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 1: a meat hunter's opportunity. And I would maybe, I don't know, 408 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:47,400 Speaker 1: I didn't think very much about this argument, but I'd 409 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:51,360 Speaker 1: almost make the argument that more meat is harvested from 410 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:53,800 Speaker 1: these trophy units with a lot less tags, and more 411 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:56,879 Speaker 1: meats harvested from these meat eater units, you know, or 412 00:21:57,160 --> 00:21:59,480 Speaker 1: meat hunter units that are over the counter, wide open 413 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:02,240 Speaker 1: to everybody. I didn't do any fact checking on that, 414 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:04,960 Speaker 1: but just my understanding and just you know what we see, 415 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:07,959 Speaker 1: like all right, percentages are way higher. Yeah, there's less tags, 416 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:10,760 Speaker 1: but you know, when you add success and it might 417 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:13,440 Speaker 1: be close to If we're truly talking about meat ending 418 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:16,440 Speaker 1: up in somebody's freezer, trophy units might do just as 419 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:17,200 Speaker 1: good a job. 420 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:20,080 Speaker 2: An animal size, Right, A ten year old bull elk 421 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 2: is a lot bigger than a two and a half 422 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:24,320 Speaker 2: year old bull elk. I mean, let's let's just face it. 423 00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:25,880 Speaker 2: I mean, there's a lot more meat there. 424 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:29,240 Speaker 1: No Dirk's getting into that one like little another little 425 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:33,160 Speaker 1: slippery slope in here is. And trust me, I come 426 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 1: from a place where you know, we we you know, 427 00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:38,400 Speaker 1: the youngsters kill spike bucks and as you get older, 428 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:40,840 Speaker 1: you kill bigger. But so I'm not I'm not saying anything. 429 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:43,920 Speaker 1: But that's the one argument I struggle with. And I 430 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:47,119 Speaker 1: don't know how to how to expand on it or 431 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,600 Speaker 1: talk about it without putting somebody down, which is what 432 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,240 Speaker 1: I don't want to do. You know, Switzerland, when it 433 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 1: comes to stuff, I just want to be in the middle. 434 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:55,080 Speaker 1: I want everybody to do what they want to do 435 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:57,560 Speaker 1: as long as it's legal. So I'll put that out there, 436 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:00,640 Speaker 1: But don't make the meat hunter argument when you drove 437 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 1: across the state with gas prices where they are to 438 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:06,479 Speaker 1: shoot a one and a half year old deer and 439 00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:10,880 Speaker 1: tell me that you don't care because you're a meat hunter. Now, 440 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:13,200 Speaker 1: there's an argument to be made that is wild organic meat. 441 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 1: And but I've been there, I've I've cut open, I've skinned, 442 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:23,160 Speaker 1: I've cut up a lot of deer and elk and 443 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:25,920 Speaker 1: it's drastic. You know, you're getting half the deer if 444 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,159 Speaker 1: that on, or you're getting half the elk on a 445 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:29,720 Speaker 1: spike bowl versus six and a half or seven and 446 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:32,320 Speaker 1: a half year old bowl. Maybe less maybe less meat, 447 00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:32,640 Speaker 1: And so. 448 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:37,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely. Well I used to work with some guys, 449 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 2: you know, and they were, you know, I'm just a 450 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:43,680 Speaker 2: meat hunter. I'm like, well, I'm a meat hunter too, 451 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:46,160 Speaker 2: and just I just like to hopefully get a more 452 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:49,720 Speaker 2: mature animal. But like this year, I shot a spike kelk. 453 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not I'm not that much of a 454 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,560 Speaker 2: trophy hunter. But i will say, you know that those 455 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:57,800 Speaker 2: guys are like they would you know, by they would 456 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 2: shoot the first dough or the first thing, and I'm like, 457 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:02,919 Speaker 2: why why did you shoot that thing so fast? Well, 458 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:04,479 Speaker 2: I need the meat I need the meat. I'm like, oh, 459 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:07,439 Speaker 2: you guys make like steaks and burger and roasts out 460 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,879 Speaker 2: of it. No, no pepperoni and jerk. And I'm like, dude, 461 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:14,639 Speaker 2: that's snacks. You're making freaking snacks. That's don't don't bullshit me. 462 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,200 Speaker 1: Man. Yeah you're not. You're not sustaining your family off 463 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:17,920 Speaker 1: of that, right. 464 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 2: But you just spent to kill that deer. You could 465 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,800 Speaker 2: have went to Pepperidge Farms at the mall and spent 466 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:27,120 Speaker 2: that same money and and came away with a lot 467 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:30,000 Speaker 2: more a lot more meat. So don't don't blow smoke 468 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:31,160 Speaker 2: up my tailpipe. 469 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, And so I'm gonna I'm not done with managing populations. 470 00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:37,359 Speaker 1: I think it's only fair to give both sides. And 471 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:39,240 Speaker 1: like I say, I hopefully don't touch on this again. 472 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 1: I feel trophy hunting does hurt genetics in some areas, 473 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:47,760 Speaker 1: and my example is eastern Montana. Your meal deer hunting. 474 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 1: Everybody wants a perfect four point, right, Yeah, they will 475 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 1: shoot a two and a half year old perfect four 476 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:56,400 Speaker 1: point that scores one hundred and ten inches before they'll 477 00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:58,160 Speaker 1: shoot the seven and a half year old buck that's 478 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 1: a two by three or a crab claw buck right right. 479 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:05,920 Speaker 1: And so this idea of trophy hunting without people maybe 480 00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:08,200 Speaker 1: fully understanding. Once again, do whatever you want if it's 481 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:10,440 Speaker 1: legal and you got your own tag. But I feel 482 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,000 Speaker 1: like sometimes we're chasing the wrong trophy at times, Like 483 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 1: if somebody pulls out a big, old, gnarly eight and 484 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 1: a half year old buck that has no forks and 485 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:19,960 Speaker 1: you know, there's a big slick to you know, whatever 486 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:24,800 Speaker 1: it may be, I feel like at times that's better 487 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 1: for the herd than us taking out you know, these 488 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:31,959 Speaker 1: young four points, you know, same thing we just got 489 00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:34,040 Speaker 1: back from Kansas. I don't want to go, you know, 490 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,880 Speaker 1: go back into that. But there's times where maybe you're 491 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:40,439 Speaker 1: chasing an inches number and you got bucks running by that, 492 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,200 Speaker 1: are you know, bucks that are way older than that, 493 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:46,359 Speaker 1: way smarter than that, more meat than that, Like should 494 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:48,960 Speaker 1: you take those out? And so I do think that 495 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:54,399 Speaker 1: trophy hunting has hurt us, or hurt some people, or 496 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 1: some might not. Some people have have skewed some people's 497 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:01,399 Speaker 1: perception of what the trophy or the challenge really is. 498 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:03,320 Speaker 1: Like killing that two and a half year old perfect 499 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:05,760 Speaker 1: four point was not tougher than killing one hundred and 500 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:07,960 Speaker 1: twenty inch seven and a half year old buck that 501 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:09,240 Speaker 1: doesn't have any forks. 502 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:13,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, absolutely absolutely, So. 503 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,080 Speaker 1: That's that's one thing I wish. I wish we as 504 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 1: a collective group, if you are, you know, setting a 505 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:22,720 Speaker 1: standard or setting something you're after, like let's cross really 506 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 1: young four points, you're really young, ten point white tails, 507 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 1: whatever it may be, you're really small six points with 508 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:33,360 Speaker 1: short times, Like, hey, those things are young, Like let's 509 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:35,760 Speaker 1: go chase a big old giant five point. Let's go 510 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:37,560 Speaker 1: you know a five point bowler. Let's go chase a 511 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:41,480 Speaker 1: big slick two point that's legal in your area. That's 512 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:43,920 Speaker 1: you know, a bowlie buck and running all your good 513 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:47,280 Speaker 1: you know, your good breeder bucks off and I even 514 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:51,439 Speaker 1: have to back up, like that's assuming you care about 515 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:54,360 Speaker 1: the future of the genetics. And maybe I'm completely off 516 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:57,119 Speaker 1: base and this is like unbiological, you know, this isn't 517 00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:59,840 Speaker 1: like bi biologically founded. Like maybe it doesn't matter because 518 00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:02,400 Speaker 1: it was carried fifty percent as well. But I think 519 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:04,360 Speaker 1: in our heads were like we want the bucks with 520 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,000 Speaker 1: good forks, and we want the bucks with long times. 521 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,560 Speaker 1: We want the bucks and bulls with good masks to 522 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:12,399 Speaker 1: carry on and spread their jeans where maybe it doesn't 523 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,200 Speaker 1: work that way. But that's one thing like as I've 524 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 1: got older and and paid more attention, like, let's just 525 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:21,440 Speaker 1: kill the older, more mature deer than chasing a few 526 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:24,000 Speaker 1: more inches on a deer that's half its age or 527 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:24,840 Speaker 1: buck or bowl. 528 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 2: Yeah. No, absolutely. Well here a couple of years ago 529 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:32,920 Speaker 2: when we were in Montana, we were hunting with your family, 530 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:36,760 Speaker 2: and everybody got an ice buck and we started skinning 531 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:40,560 Speaker 2: heads out. Who had the oldest deer? I think was 532 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:40,919 Speaker 2: it was it? 533 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:44,760 Speaker 1: Sandy Ye scored by far the les Yeah. 534 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:46,560 Speaker 2: It was like the small one of the smallest racks, 535 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:49,320 Speaker 2: but it was the oldest deer. That thing's teeth were 536 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 2: almost gone. And some of the youngest deer, you know, 537 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:56,680 Speaker 2: we're we're had bigger antlers, you know, so it was 538 00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:59,320 Speaker 2: it was interesting to see that, you know, you you 539 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:04,280 Speaker 2: you judging you know, an animal a trophy animal by 540 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:08,159 Speaker 2: antler size only it can be kind of kind of 541 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:09,840 Speaker 2: deceiving and it you got to kind of look at 542 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,399 Speaker 2: everything we we we face this in Kansas when we 543 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,080 Speaker 2: go whitetail, honey, you know, it's it's like, wow, that's 544 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:17,400 Speaker 2: a great ten point, you know, a five by five, 545 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:20,840 Speaker 2: But look he's kind of narrow in the withers. His 546 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,400 Speaker 2: his chest isn't as deep, he doesn't have a giant brisket, 547 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 2: his neck isn't huge, he's not sway back. You start 548 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,960 Speaker 2: looking at all these other factors, like, let's not shoot 549 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:32,680 Speaker 2: that one. Let's let him live and wait till, wait, 550 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:35,960 Speaker 2: till he lives to his potential because he's not quite 551 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:37,960 Speaker 2: old enough. He's just not old deer, even though he's 552 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:39,880 Speaker 2: got a beautiful rack yep. 553 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, but I I love That's why I love that, 554 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 1: you know, private land white Tail, because you truly can 555 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,000 Speaker 1: manage a herd to the level, you know. And and 556 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 1: when we go there, it's it's five and a half 557 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:54,040 Speaker 1: the goal and Randy, Randy managed it pretty strict. But 558 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:55,400 Speaker 1: at the end of the day he's like, it's just 559 00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 1: a deer, right, the shoot what you want, but he 560 00:28:57,600 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 1: wants to kill five and a half year old deer 561 00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 1: so you can see their potential. And and I love 562 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:05,160 Speaker 1: Kansas because a lot of times out West, and maybe 563 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,200 Speaker 1: it's my own fault for getting in a hurry and 564 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:09,640 Speaker 1: not looking at them through the spotter, you know long enough. 565 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:12,000 Speaker 1: But you know, you're, like you said, you're evaluating how 566 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,120 Speaker 1: old is that dear, how big is its head? How big? 567 00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:16,000 Speaker 1: You know, if you take the horns out of the 568 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:18,320 Speaker 1: picture and you're just looking at a body, but you 569 00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:20,160 Speaker 1: know it's a buck, Like how big is he? You know, 570 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:23,640 Speaker 1: barrel chested? You know, sway in his back? And maybe 571 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,040 Speaker 1: I should do more of that out west. You know 572 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:27,960 Speaker 1: a lot of times if you look at their face 573 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,080 Speaker 1: long and if you can just tell how old that 574 00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:32,800 Speaker 1: buck is or his head, and you start to look 575 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 1: at those things, and that's a back to my you 576 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:38,200 Speaker 1: know that The original point is I think we should 577 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 1: manage more on age, class or or a potential. Like 578 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:45,480 Speaker 1: we've seen the potential of this animal. Now let's you know, 579 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:48,560 Speaker 1: kill it at that point, you know, whether regardless of 580 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:50,720 Speaker 1: what it has up there. I know it's tough. I'm 581 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,120 Speaker 1: a hypocrite because I don't necessarily follow through with that. 582 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:54,840 Speaker 1: I just think, you know, I know it would be 583 00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:57,960 Speaker 1: probably a better way to manage the herd for health 584 00:29:58,080 --> 00:29:59,280 Speaker 1: and all of that. 585 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:03,239 Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely so. 586 00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:05,160 Speaker 1: Some of the criticisms of trophy hunting, I want to 587 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:07,480 Speaker 1: get into those. We've we've kind of already talked about that. 588 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 1: You know that that wasteful, the belief that it prioritizes, 589 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:16,800 Speaker 1: you know, the vanity over the utility. I we've already 590 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:18,640 Speaker 1: kind of wrote this one off. I don't I think 591 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:22,760 Speaker 1: that that's smoking mirrors. It's drummed up by the anti hunters, 592 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 1: and it's all a bunch of hogwash. And I don't 593 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:27,200 Speaker 1: I don't even think we need to spend any more 594 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:28,800 Speaker 1: time on that, unless you got any other points you 595 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:29,480 Speaker 1: want to throw in. 596 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:32,080 Speaker 2: I just think it's mud slinging from their point. You know, 597 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,520 Speaker 2: they don't want us shooting anything. You know, let's just 598 00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:37,840 Speaker 2: be honest. They don't want us to kill any animals. 599 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:42,360 Speaker 2: They want this perfect utopian world where animals run free 600 00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:44,240 Speaker 2: and nobody ever kills them. They die of old age, 601 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 2: curled up and next to a bed of flowers, and 602 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:49,840 Speaker 2: you know, pass peacefully in the night. But you know 603 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,040 Speaker 2: they're gonna try to you know, look at the work 604 00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:55,880 Speaker 2: show examples of the worst scenario. Some rich fat cat 605 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,719 Speaker 2: went and paid a bunch of money and and shot 606 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:04,840 Speaker 2: this animal for its for its antlers or its rhinoceros 607 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 2: horn or whatever it is. You know, you know, just 608 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,280 Speaker 2: trying to make it look as bad, make the optics 609 00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:13,720 Speaker 2: as bad as possible. And then they go ahead and 610 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:15,120 Speaker 2: you know, we'll just go ahead and leave out all 611 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 2: these other details that that I know that that that 612 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:20,480 Speaker 2: guy paid a whole bunch of money, just kept that 613 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:25,040 Speaker 2: whole local community of people alive for the next year, 614 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:29,200 Speaker 2: and kept a whole bunch of other rhinos alive for 615 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:32,320 Speaker 2: tomorrow as well. You know, they just don't paint the 616 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:36,920 Speaker 2: picture that like what all that everything that's considered into hunting, 617 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 2: trophy hunting what it does. So it's just mud slinging, 618 00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:41,000 Speaker 2: you know. 619 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:45,320 Speaker 1: And they these people are very surgical and strategical right 620 00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 1: when when they go after trophy hunting. So Disney is 621 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:54,080 Speaker 1: the worst offender on romanticizing these animals that we've hunted 622 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:57,440 Speaker 1: forever from the dawn of time, that we've survived on food. 623 00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:00,000 Speaker 1: I would be willing to bet nobody on the face 624 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,320 Speaker 1: of this planet right now, and their entire lineage has 625 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:07,520 Speaker 1: got here because of vegetables and fruit, right you wouldn't 626 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:15,680 Speaker 1: have made it through winners. Everybody's eight bear, cougar, der, elk, sheep, buffalo, beef, 627 00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:17,600 Speaker 1: whatever it has been to be at the point there 628 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:19,840 Speaker 1: their life. Somewhere in their lineage. I'm gonna I'm gonna 629 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:23,840 Speaker 1: guess I'm sure somebody could show some examples. But what 630 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,760 Speaker 1: Disney and and other cartoon makers and book writers have 631 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:34,520 Speaker 1: did is they've romanticized these same critters into their their books. 632 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:38,440 Speaker 1: You know, their their kid books, and you know their stories. 633 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:41,560 Speaker 1: You know, you got you've got movies made about you know, 634 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:44,160 Speaker 1: pet bears or bears that save people, and you got 635 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:46,800 Speaker 1: movies that are and then all of a sudden, so 636 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:49,160 Speaker 1: they use that against us and then they go after Hey, 637 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,120 Speaker 1: we're gonna go after bears and cat hunters first, right, 638 00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:55,040 Speaker 1: if you like to hunt cougars, if you like to 639 00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:58,840 Speaker 1: hunt bears, if you're one of those really really bad 640 00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:01,040 Speaker 1: hunters need to use dog to kill those, Like, we're 641 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:03,800 Speaker 1: really gonna go out for you, because that's number one. 642 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:05,040 Speaker 1: You hate your own pack. 643 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:07,360 Speaker 2: Of dogs because it's animal abuse. 644 00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:09,960 Speaker 1: Right, you're gonna use your hounds, and then you're gonna 645 00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:12,440 Speaker 1: chase this poor critter up into a tree and then 646 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:14,520 Speaker 1: you're gonna kill it because you suck really bad at hunting, 647 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:16,760 Speaker 1: And so they go after I don't want to call 648 00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:18,880 Speaker 1: it the low hanging fruit, but I feel like society 649 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:21,479 Speaker 1: is like set this scenario up, like we're gonna put 650 00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:23,760 Speaker 1: these cute little critters we're gonna make cougars and bears 651 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:25,400 Speaker 1: cute little critters. We're gonna put them in these books 652 00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:27,120 Speaker 1: and put them in movies, and then we're gonna go 653 00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:29,360 Speaker 1: get rid of those first, right, or I mean, we 654 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:30,840 Speaker 1: can even take it to the extent of Bambi like 655 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,360 Speaker 1: that thing did Hunter is the biggest disservice in the world, right, 656 00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:36,080 Speaker 1: because there's a family a deer, and and in that 657 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:38,040 Speaker 1: movie the family and the mom and the dad gets 658 00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 1: separated and whatever it is that you know where I'm 659 00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:43,240 Speaker 1: going with it. But then they they take that and 660 00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:46,560 Speaker 1: then use the word trophy hunting and then try to 661 00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:47,760 Speaker 1: take some of that away from us. 662 00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:52,520 Speaker 2: And then they depict hunters as these drunken buffoons, you know, 663 00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:57,000 Speaker 2: you know, just low iqbe drunken buffoons, stumble in through 664 00:33:57,040 --> 00:33:59,560 Speaker 2: the forest shooting everything indiscriminately. 665 00:33:59,720 --> 00:33:59,960 Speaker 1: Yep. 666 00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:03,520 Speaker 2: You know, they just demonize hunters that way. So immediately 667 00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:06,360 Speaker 2: as a child, you know like, oh, hunters they're bad. 668 00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:07,880 Speaker 2: Look at that guy's a jerk. 669 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:13,040 Speaker 1: You know, yep. And I mean it's funny and you 670 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:14,960 Speaker 1: can't look at the extremes all the time, but you're 671 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,319 Speaker 1: like the you know, who would they want to have 672 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:19,839 Speaker 1: around if if they couldn't grow a garden and all 673 00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,680 Speaker 1: you know, the world went the hell in a handbasket. 674 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:26,560 Speaker 1: Tomorrow you're gonna need the we've got. The hunters have 675 00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:28,479 Speaker 1: the skills, whether you're a trophy hunter or meat hunter, 676 00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:30,399 Speaker 1: to like feed you and keep you alive. So it's 677 00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:33,120 Speaker 1: like you can depict this as as drunken buffoons and 678 00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:35,920 Speaker 1: idiots that can't but most hunters I've met are pretty 679 00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:39,000 Speaker 1: damn handy. They can take care of themselves. And but 680 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:42,080 Speaker 1: it's it's one of those you know the criticism of 681 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:46,040 Speaker 1: trophy huntings that were out there, you know Spring Bear 682 00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:49,239 Speaker 1: in Washington, like, Oh, these guys suck so bad at 683 00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:51,319 Speaker 1: bear hunting in the fall that they've got to go 684 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:55,120 Speaker 1: kill these lethargic bears when they get out of the den. Yeah, 685 00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:58,440 Speaker 1: well that's that doesn't help us, like they but but 686 00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:00,680 Speaker 1: it's not founded in science, Like, oh, a new study 687 00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:02,480 Speaker 1: just came out the bears are more active as soon 688 00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:03,960 Speaker 1: as they come out of the den to like quickly 689 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:07,239 Speaker 1: replenish their calorie deficite. You're like, well that, you know, 690 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:11,240 Speaker 1: but they throw a trophy on in they throw false 691 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:15,280 Speaker 1: information and it's a it's a campaign and it seems 692 00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:16,959 Speaker 1: to be more out West. They just leave the white 693 00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:19,680 Speaker 1: tails and stuff alone. But it's like out West, you know, 694 00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:22,719 Speaker 1: these these predators, these alpha predators, whether it's you know, 695 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:25,799 Speaker 1: wolves or if you're a wolf hun or your trophy hunter, 696 00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:28,319 Speaker 1: because you're not gonna eat the meat right like, or 697 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:31,320 Speaker 1: I'm trying to balance wildlife since they're out of balance, 698 00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:35,520 Speaker 1: or you're, you know, a bear hunter, and so like perception, 699 00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:42,839 Speaker 1: I feel like as a trophy hunter, and it's not 700 00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:45,760 Speaker 1: even really trophy hunting. They're just they're using that wording 701 00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:48,120 Speaker 1: to target things that they don't want to see us do, 702 00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:49,920 Speaker 1: and they're just they're trying to pick the easiest one 703 00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:53,439 Speaker 1: to get because of those voters or because of those 704 00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:58,239 Speaker 1: lawmakers that will side with them because they're cute and cuddly, yeah, 705 00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:00,560 Speaker 1: which has got lumped into trophy on. Yeah. 706 00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:03,239 Speaker 2: They just take everything out of context, is what they do. 707 00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:05,840 Speaker 2: You know, they love all hunters in with trophy hunting, 708 00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:08,880 Speaker 2: and we'll have a whole bunch of people, the majority 709 00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:11,239 Speaker 2: of people will probably be like, now, man, I'm just 710 00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:14,359 Speaker 2: gonna take the first legal animal I can and go 711 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:16,839 Speaker 2: home with some meat, you know, And so they take 712 00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:22,080 Speaker 2: offense by that, which they should, but they the media 713 00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:25,560 Speaker 2: and the anti hunting crew, they're they're just trying to 714 00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:29,680 Speaker 2: demonize hunting in general. And I think, you know, like 715 00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:32,000 Speaker 2: what we saw here in Colorado with the whole trying 716 00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:36,960 Speaker 2: to get rid of mountain lion hunting there, it didn't pass, 717 00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:40,200 Speaker 2: and I almost think it might have backfired a little 718 00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:43,640 Speaker 2: bit because so much information got put out into the 719 00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:47,880 Speaker 2: world about what mountain lion hunting and management is all about, 720 00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:51,680 Speaker 2: and might have enlightened a lot of new people that like, 721 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:55,439 Speaker 2: oh I didn't know about that, you know, maybe they'd 722 00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:57,560 Speaker 2: even vote vote on it, maybe, you know, but they 723 00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:03,560 Speaker 2: like they got a different perspective. So I think if 724 00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:06,520 Speaker 2: anything good came out of that, then I think just 725 00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:09,359 Speaker 2: more information out there in the world from another side 726 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:13,360 Speaker 2: instead of that one sided media. 727 00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:22,120 Speaker 1: So I got a question for you, you know, kind 728 00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:24,320 Speaker 1: of rolling the meat hunting. If we had to separate 729 00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:26,319 Speaker 1: the two, which I have a hard time doing, I 730 00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:28,680 Speaker 1: think it's a very blurred line. I just think it 731 00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:31,680 Speaker 1: met you know, the only difference is the age or 732 00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:33,880 Speaker 1: the quality of animal you're willing to take. Why is 733 00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:36,160 Speaker 1: meat hunting, seeing it as more in your opinion, more 734 00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:39,440 Speaker 1: universally acceptable, why does it face less, you know, backlash 735 00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:40,040 Speaker 1: from the public. 736 00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:44,200 Speaker 2: I don't know. I think that because they, like I say, 737 00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:47,560 Speaker 2: they kind of there try to paint that narrative of 738 00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:51,960 Speaker 2: some rich jerk going out and just killing stuff with 739 00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:54,480 Speaker 2: his check book instead of you know, just you know, 740 00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:57,680 Speaker 2: they don't even talk about the meat being utilized, you know, 741 00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:00,680 Speaker 2: like any of these African animals. They it matt about. 742 00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:04,160 Speaker 2: You know, the villagers eat every bit of that animal, 743 00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:06,759 Speaker 2: like everything, They use every bit of it. They use 744 00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:10,120 Speaker 2: the hide, they use the bones, they use everything. But 745 00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:13,399 Speaker 2: you'll never see that, you know, on their narrative. They'll 746 00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:17,520 Speaker 2: just like, oh, this guy paid three hundred thousand dollars 747 00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:19,360 Speaker 2: to shoot Cecial the lion. 748 00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:20,200 Speaker 1: Yeah. 749 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:22,960 Speaker 2: Well I'm pretty sure the villagers ate Cecil the lion, yeah, 750 00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:24,920 Speaker 2: and made something out of your skin. 751 00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:27,040 Speaker 1: Or they were able to use or they're able to 752 00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:29,239 Speaker 1: use that money to create a new water system like 753 00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:32,080 Speaker 1: you know or whatever schools you know, vital Yeah, like, oh, 754 00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:34,439 Speaker 1: we'll forget about like the good deeds that are done 755 00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:37,719 Speaker 1: to the you know. And and obviously the biologists at 756 00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:40,239 Speaker 1: some point had said this lion needs to or it 757 00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:43,799 Speaker 1: can be taken out of the the you know, the area. Yeah, 758 00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:48,080 Speaker 1: and it was acceptable. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 759 00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:51,160 Speaker 2: It helped those local folks live another year, you know, 760 00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:55,280 Speaker 2: in a in a hostile environment where food and money 761 00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:56,120 Speaker 2: doesn't come easy. 762 00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:56,400 Speaker 1: You know. 763 00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:00,319 Speaker 2: Yeah, our Western opinion, in Western culture, we we don't 764 00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:02,839 Speaker 2: even understand what those poor folks go through over there 765 00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:06,560 Speaker 2: to to live every day. And I think nobody ever 766 00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:10,000 Speaker 2: thinks about that when they get incensed about oh that 767 00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:14,359 Speaker 2: guy killed it a zebra or that guy killed a 768 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:17,560 Speaker 2: giraffe or what? How dare them? You know, that's it's 769 00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:19,040 Speaker 2: a different world there, yep. 770 00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:22,319 Speaker 1: And I've always just struggled why does it face less 771 00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:26,839 Speaker 1: public backlash than trophy hunting. I've got a tag, I'm 772 00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:31,000 Speaker 1: making a decision again, and the chances that there's I'm 773 00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:32,920 Speaker 1: reiterating a lot of my points, there's a chance that 774 00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:35,319 Speaker 1: more animals are going to survive by me, you know, 775 00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:39,120 Speaker 1: setting setting a bar than not. So why is there 776 00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:42,000 Speaker 1: less public backlash? Is it because the word we put 777 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:43,680 Speaker 1: in front of hunting is I'm out there for a 778 00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:45,640 Speaker 1: different reason though No, I'm still out there to fill 779 00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:48,160 Speaker 1: the freezer. I just like it's just baffling to me, 780 00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:51,879 Speaker 1: and it's it's the most quick reduction, Like a lot 781 00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:55,080 Speaker 1: of times things are more complex or nuanced, like all right, 782 00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:58,080 Speaker 1: there's a lot of you know, stuff to navigate here. 783 00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:01,000 Speaker 1: I'm like, no, it's literally me doing the exact same thing. 784 00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:02,840 Speaker 1: I just pulled the trigger on something a little different 785 00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:06,719 Speaker 1: that that you know has a higher probability that something lives. 786 00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:09,400 Speaker 1: Like you should hate meat hunting more than trophy hunting 787 00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:11,960 Speaker 1: if you had to, if you had to pick something, 788 00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:14,480 Speaker 1: like you should you know, anti hunters should hate meat 789 00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:16,360 Speaker 1: hunting way more than they hate trophy hunting. 790 00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:19,360 Speaker 2: Right, because there's more lives, animal lives being lost to 791 00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:21,000 Speaker 2: meat hunting than the trophy hunting. 792 00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:24,200 Speaker 1: Because I don't understand it's more selective, right, yep, yep, 793 00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:26,520 Speaker 1: you know it's like, oh, meat hunters they have a 794 00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:29,680 Speaker 1: better connection to nature. I'm like no, Usually I'm out 795 00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:32,320 Speaker 1: in the woods longer if i'm if I'm after it, 796 00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:35,000 Speaker 1: So my connection to nature is better. I feel like 797 00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:37,479 Speaker 1: I'm more in tune, Like I've got to think more, 798 00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:40,719 Speaker 1: Like I can go to as I'm just not meant 799 00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:42,359 Speaker 1: to sound that way. I'm not saying I'm that good, 800 00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:44,319 Speaker 1: but like I can go to most places and kill 801 00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:47,319 Speaker 1: something that's legal very quickly. Right, I've got to be 802 00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:49,880 Speaker 1: dialed in, like where's the most mature animal in the 803 00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:52,280 Speaker 1: mountain gonna live? Or like where's a nook and cranny, 804 00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:55,200 Speaker 1: Like it's sometimes a harder place to get to, not always, 805 00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:59,200 Speaker 1: but like I'm having to think more versus so in 806 00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:01,800 Speaker 1: my opinion, that's bilding a deeper appreciation for the wildlife 807 00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:04,640 Speaker 1: and what it takes to get to that age and maturity. 808 00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:07,799 Speaker 1: And they've got an ability to think different. So I 809 00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:10,280 Speaker 1: don't understand how a meat hunter, you know, the argument, 810 00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:13,560 Speaker 1: Oh they're they're really connected to nature, or they've got 811 00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:15,880 Speaker 1: a more appreciation for the wildlife they're hunting. Like, No, 812 00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:18,400 Speaker 1: I don't buy it. Like it can be equivalent but 813 00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:19,520 Speaker 1: not more. 814 00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:22,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think it's just pure and simple that 815 00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:28,040 Speaker 2: it's a lot harder to demonize someone who is hunting 816 00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:32,719 Speaker 2: for sustenance, you know. And I think the last I 817 00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:35,799 Speaker 2: don't know, five years or better, I'm like there's a 818 00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:37,600 Speaker 2: lot of I think a lot of more people who 819 00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:42,520 Speaker 2: are more enlightened and like less against hunting. Now now 820 00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:46,200 Speaker 2: that the kind of the everybody's all the meat industry 821 00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:48,520 Speaker 2: and everything, they'll have the whistle blown on them, right, 822 00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:51,360 Speaker 2: everybody's starting to see all the crap they put in 823 00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:53,719 Speaker 2: our food. They're poisoning us with all this stuff. That's 824 00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:56,120 Speaker 2: a completely different rabbit hole. But I think a lot 825 00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:59,319 Speaker 2: of people are awakening to the fact that like the 826 00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:03,920 Speaker 2: stuff you buy it at the store isn't maybe necessarily 827 00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:07,279 Speaker 2: that healthy. So wild meat, wild game is a lot 828 00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:12,000 Speaker 2: healthier for you. And the conditions at livestock are held 829 00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:15,479 Speaker 2: in you know, feed yards, all these different places. It's 830 00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:18,000 Speaker 2: not the it's not a pretty picture. It's not a 831 00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:20,600 Speaker 2: it's not a great picture. Whereas a deer or elk, 832 00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:23,920 Speaker 2: they lived a beautiful free life their whole life, and 833 00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:28,400 Speaker 2: finally one day a hunter took their life, put them 834 00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:31,520 Speaker 2: down humanly. They didn't get eaten to death while they're 835 00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:35,719 Speaker 2: eaten alive by coyotes, wolves, bears, cougars, whatever. They didn't 836 00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:40,399 Speaker 2: get killed in a brutal fashion by nature per se. 837 00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:46,120 Speaker 2: They're taken down by a hunter. But as humans, we 838 00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:49,120 Speaker 2: are part of nature. We've been part of nature since 839 00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:52,279 Speaker 2: the dawn of time. So to take to say that 840 00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:55,960 Speaker 2: it's not natural for a hunter to kill an animal 841 00:42:56,360 --> 00:43:01,879 Speaker 2: is hogwash. It's preposterous. You know, we've been here since 842 00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:05,240 Speaker 2: the animals have been here, yep, And so it is natural. 843 00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:07,319 Speaker 2: It is a natural thing for us to kill, to 844 00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:10,839 Speaker 2: kill an animal. But back to your point, Yeah, it's 845 00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:14,759 Speaker 2: just easier to demonize, you know it. You can make 846 00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:18,359 Speaker 2: trophy hunting look bad and and poo poo on that 847 00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:21,120 Speaker 2: way easier than you can just someone sustin it's hunting. 848 00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:25,279 Speaker 1: Yeah, now it's it's a it's a tricky subject. I 849 00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:30,000 Speaker 1: feel like those that hunt, whether for me or trophy hunting, 850 00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:32,759 Speaker 1: like understand it very clearly. It's not that you know, 851 00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:38,840 Speaker 1: it's not that different. I feel like the the the 852 00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:42,480 Speaker 1: the shade has been cast from outside the arena and 853 00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:45,000 Speaker 1: we're kind of left to deal with it. But I 854 00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:46,560 Speaker 1: I do kind of to go back to my point, 855 00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:48,920 Speaker 1: I feel like as hunters, we need to do a 856 00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:52,080 Speaker 1: better job of explaining why we do exactly what we 857 00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:54,719 Speaker 1: do and and you know, to kind of kind of 858 00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:57,000 Speaker 1: wrap this thing up. It was just kind of a 859 00:43:57,040 --> 00:44:00,960 Speaker 1: conversation on trophy hunting in our own opinions, but we 860 00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:02,880 Speaker 1: just need to do a better job as hunting, you know, 861 00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:05,880 Speaker 1: as hunters as a collective group, explaining why we do 862 00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:08,640 Speaker 1: what we do. And back to my opinion, and it's 863 00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:11,080 Speaker 1: the easy way out, But as long as the biologists 864 00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:13,640 Speaker 1: agree that there should be tags. You've got to tag 865 00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:15,720 Speaker 1: for that unit and the animal that you shoots legal 866 00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:18,239 Speaker 1: and you're not wasting anything. Like who am I to 867 00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:20,480 Speaker 1: say what you should be doing while you're out there. 868 00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:22,520 Speaker 1: If you want to shoot a spike that's a you know, 869 00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:25,560 Speaker 1: a year and a half old or a the button buck, 870 00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:27,040 Speaker 1: because that's what you want to do, or you need 871 00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:29,759 Speaker 1: to meet by all means do it. If you want 872 00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:31,840 Speaker 1: to go out there and never shoot, you know, you 873 00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:34,080 Speaker 1: you could have killed hundreds of animals and you shoot 874 00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:36,080 Speaker 1: one every ten years because you only want the biggest 875 00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:38,040 Speaker 1: thing ever to put on your wall. As long as 876 00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:39,759 Speaker 1: you're taking the meat home, by all means, do it. 877 00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:44,240 Speaker 1: But I I always kind of joke these meat hunters. 878 00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:46,000 Speaker 1: I would love to be there with a meat hunter 879 00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:48,960 Speaker 1: and set a big old, you know, four point a 880 00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:52,120 Speaker 1: giant four point buck alongside of a spike and see 881 00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:53,840 Speaker 1: which one they shoot. And I would even take it 882 00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:56,480 Speaker 1: as far as put a giant four point buck next 883 00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:59,279 Speaker 1: to a spike bowl, maybe a little more meat on 884 00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:01,280 Speaker 1: the spike bowl, and we'll see which one they shoot. 885 00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:05,080 Speaker 1: We're all meat hunters, quote unquote meat hunters until something 886 00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:08,480 Speaker 1: BIG's around I think there's a very few, very few 887 00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:11,239 Speaker 1: guys that they are gals or hunters in general. They 888 00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:14,240 Speaker 1: were like, yeah, I'll take the less the less mature, 889 00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:18,879 Speaker 1: or the less impressive animal. You can talk a big 890 00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:20,960 Speaker 1: game until you're in the situation that everybody turns into 891 00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:21,920 Speaker 1: a trophy hunter. 892 00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:25,359 Speaker 2: Right right, I mean that would probably be true in 893 00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:28,759 Speaker 2: most cases. I will say my dad would tell me 894 00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:30,680 Speaker 2: every time i'd leave the house to go hunting when 895 00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:32,319 Speaker 2: I was a kid, he'd be like, Hey, now, don't 896 00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:34,399 Speaker 2: be shooting none of them big stinky bucks or big 897 00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:37,360 Speaker 2: stinky bulls. Try to get a nice dry dough or 898 00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:39,880 Speaker 2: a nice dry cow if you can. He would tell 899 00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:41,840 Speaker 2: me that every time, And when I'd come home with 900 00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:44,640 Speaker 2: a bowl or a buck, He's just like, Ah, what'd 901 00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:47,280 Speaker 2: you kill this thing for? Oh, this thing's been rotten. 902 00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:50,560 Speaker 2: It's stakes, you know, the hair, the fur stinks or whatever. 903 00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:56,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, it's it's a tricky subject. I just uh, 904 00:45:57,120 --> 00:46:01,040 Speaker 1: like I say, there's trophy honting in my opinions, just 905 00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:03,800 Speaker 1: meat hunting. Uh. For a little more meat and a 906 00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:06,800 Speaker 1: little better warns is all. That's the only difference. Umanized 907 00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:09,600 Speaker 1: demonized by the outside and anything you have to add 908 00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:11,520 Speaker 1: Dirk or anything we need to close off with. I 909 00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:14,160 Speaker 1: know this is you know, Christmas is right around the corner. 910 00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:16,279 Speaker 1: I'll let you do your spill. You're you have a 911 00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:18,800 Speaker 1: better like ADS marked you. 912 00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:21,960 Speaker 2: I need to use my my announcer, radio announcer. 913 00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:23,680 Speaker 1: You can use whatever voice you want. I don't want 914 00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:24,640 Speaker 1: to steal your thunder here at you. 915 00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:27,839 Speaker 2: No, no, not yeah. With Christmas around the corner, you know, 916 00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:31,040 Speaker 2: don't forget your favorite elk hunter or deer hunter. We 917 00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:34,839 Speaker 2: do have stocking stuffers at Phelipsgame Calls dot Com. Don't 918 00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:38,600 Speaker 2: want to be a big pushy salesman here, but don't Yeah, yeah, 919 00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:41,080 Speaker 2: I think of your your favorite hunter and and we've 920 00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:43,200 Speaker 2: got some cool stuff that doesn't break the bank and 921 00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:47,239 Speaker 2: can fill stocking or or you know, maybe they want 922 00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:50,800 Speaker 2: that beautiful beegle tube that you know that's their main present. 923 00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:53,719 Speaker 2: I mean I would kill for one of those. And 924 00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:55,840 Speaker 2: I was, you know, when I was a kid. You know, 925 00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:57,200 Speaker 2: somebody about me bugle tube. 926 00:46:57,239 --> 00:46:59,600 Speaker 1: So so if you were a meat hunter, or what 927 00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:01,799 Speaker 1: elk you get, if you're a trophy hunter, what elk 928 00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:03,439 Speaker 1: called you get? I should have answered. 929 00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:06,160 Speaker 2: That, Well, I'm just gonna be honest if if you 930 00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:08,080 Speaker 2: just want to take home, if you want to be 931 00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:10,600 Speaker 2: a tag notcher, you just need to get a Maverick. 932 00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:13,439 Speaker 1: Maverick. If you want to be a trophy hunter, then 933 00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:13,960 Speaker 1: you get. 934 00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:16,520 Speaker 2: The pink no, you get the no, and you get 935 00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:19,880 Speaker 2: the Maverick. The I mean, the Maverick will do everything. 936 00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:22,239 Speaker 2: I mean you're dogging off. Get a Maverick. Wife left 937 00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:23,040 Speaker 2: your Maverick. 938 00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:26,640 Speaker 1: Boy, it's getting deep at Maverick. If you're listening right 939 00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:28,399 Speaker 1: now and you're in a safe spot, you should start 940 00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:34,040 Speaker 1: rolling up your pants because it's getting deep. Good. All right, Well, 941 00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:35,719 Speaker 1: thanks for jumping on, Derek. It was, like I said, 942 00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:37,239 Speaker 1: it was just something that popped up and wanted to 943 00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:40,640 Speaker 1: switch a little bit from tips and tactics and yeah, 944 00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:43,239 Speaker 1: just go out there and hunt because you love it. 945 00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:46,120 Speaker 1: You know, hunt because you want to fill the freezer 946 00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:49,719 Speaker 1: with organic meat that's not you know, add hormones injected it. 947 00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:51,600 Speaker 1: Whatever it is, just go out and hunt because you 948 00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:54,760 Speaker 1: love it. Whether it's family and friends, whether it's telling stories, 949 00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:57,719 Speaker 1: whether it's drinks around the campfire, whether it's whatever it is, 950 00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:01,200 Speaker 1: go out there and do it as long as it's legal, 951 00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:04,360 Speaker 1: and don't worry about what anybody else, you know, questions 952 00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:05,319 Speaker 1: you're reasoning for doing it. 953 00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:10,759 Speaker 2: Yeah, but but have self awareness to know that if 954 00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:12,560 Speaker 2: you're gonna put that stuff out there, if you're gonna 955 00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:16,239 Speaker 2: put share your pictures, your success photos or your hunting 956 00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:21,640 Speaker 2: trip photos, always give context, you know. Don't just say 957 00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:26,440 Speaker 2: guild this buck got her done, you know, tell tell 958 00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:27,640 Speaker 2: about it, why. 959 00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:28,600 Speaker 1: What you know? 960 00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:31,239 Speaker 2: Expand on it. This isn't just a bang bang, shoot 961 00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:33,600 Speaker 2: them up thing, you know. Expand why why do you 962 00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:36,400 Speaker 2: kill that? Why do you enjoyed the hunt? Why you 963 00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:40,400 Speaker 2: enjoyed your friends? Yeah, I mean you have to, you 964 00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:42,640 Speaker 2: have to you know. Yeah, we shouldn't have to answer 965 00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:44,719 Speaker 2: to anyone. Absolutely I agree with that, And I take 966 00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:47,960 Speaker 2: I take offense by trying to like have to appease 967 00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:51,280 Speaker 2: all these you know, anti hunting people. I'm not really 968 00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:54,399 Speaker 2: trying to appease any anti hunting. Those people are already gone. 969 00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:59,760 Speaker 2: There're no convincing them that hunting is good. But people 970 00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:03,680 Speaker 2: who who are watching silently, quietly, who are on the fence, 971 00:49:03,719 --> 00:49:06,600 Speaker 2: who don't hunt, And if you paint a really nice picture, 972 00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:09,480 Speaker 2: it's like, yeah, I like that. You know, camaraderie, family friends, 973 00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:12,880 Speaker 2: you know, found a you know, you know, want to 974 00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:16,080 Speaker 2: spend a full season hunting, trying to find a mature animal, 975 00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:18,680 Speaker 2: not just to kill and discriminately whatever. I mean, if 976 00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:21,560 Speaker 2: you can paint a great picture, it just leaves a 977 00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:23,600 Speaker 2: better taste in people's mouth. It just does. 978 00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:27,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, and we're you brought up another point. We're trying 979 00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:29,520 Speaker 1: to wrap this up and we just keep going. We're 980 00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:32,320 Speaker 1: not the judge and jury. But I'd also urge people 981 00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:35,200 Speaker 1: that there's some stuff left that's left to be on 982 00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:38,120 Speaker 1: your phone and not meant for social media. Like like 983 00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:40,160 Speaker 1: Dirk said, he's not trying to pease anybody, but there 984 00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:43,360 Speaker 1: are things that can do harm. They keep it on 985 00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:45,560 Speaker 1: your phone, share it with friends and family, even if 986 00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:48,239 Speaker 1: you want to share it. Like some stuff, there's just 987 00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:50,880 Speaker 1: stuff I'm not proud of that happens, like life or 988 00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:54,120 Speaker 1: death out there. It's real. It affects me, like just 989 00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:55,000 Speaker 1: we don't. 990 00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:57,080 Speaker 2: Have to show it, right, you don't have to share 991 00:49:57,120 --> 00:49:59,640 Speaker 2: that with the world. Yeah, there's just something you know, 992 00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:02,480 Speaker 2: and I feel like, you know, just have a little decency. Hello, 993 00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:04,520 Speaker 2: respect for the animal, have a respect for the people 994 00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:07,800 Speaker 2: who Let's just say, you know, I've spent a lifetime 995 00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:11,080 Speaker 2: hunting and I grew up in a household with a 996 00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:16,160 Speaker 2: different mindset versus people who've never been hunting, and if 997 00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:20,440 Speaker 2: they see something that's like maybe commonplace, like a gratuitous 998 00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:24,960 Speaker 2: headshot of an animal or or something else, that is 999 00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:27,919 Speaker 2: beyond disturbing for them because they're not used to seeing 1000 00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:30,560 Speaker 2: an animal die, they're not used to seeing someone take 1001 00:50:30,560 --> 00:50:35,640 Speaker 2: a life, and what might be kind of commonplace or 1002 00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:38,840 Speaker 2: like desensitized us because we've been there, done that, whatever, 1003 00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:41,799 Speaker 2: It doesn't mean we should maybe share it with the world. 1004 00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:46,399 Speaker 2: Those those I've and I've seen some and I've been around. 1005 00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:49,480 Speaker 2: I've been around, I've shot a lot of animals, and 1006 00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:52,520 Speaker 2: I've seen some videos where people like, you know, like 1007 00:50:52,560 --> 00:50:57,080 Speaker 2: some gratuitous headshot of an animal. It's disgusting. I don't want. 1008 00:50:57,200 --> 00:50:59,120 Speaker 2: I don't want to see that. I don't. I don't. 1009 00:50:59,239 --> 00:51:02,840 Speaker 2: I can guarantee nobody else wants to see that. It's 1010 00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:03,680 Speaker 2: it ain't cool. 1011 00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:05,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, if you if you want to show us how 1012 00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:07,319 Speaker 1: good of a shot you are, go shoot a paper 1013 00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:11,680 Speaker 1: target and share that, like is it hunter? You can 1014 00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:13,759 Speaker 1: give somebody a fist pump like great shot, but we 1015 00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:15,720 Speaker 1: leave it at that, like that stays in the woods. 1016 00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:20,240 Speaker 1: The the mess is there. You nobody needs to see it, nobody. 1017 00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:22,880 Speaker 1: And as a hunter that you know, you know, just 1018 00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:24,399 Speaker 1: like you dealt with a lot of life and death 1019 00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:26,560 Speaker 1: and and and you know you wanted to be quick 1020 00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:28,640 Speaker 1: and ethical, like just just leave it off there. I 1021 00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:31,719 Speaker 1: know we're going down a different rabbit hole, but God, 1022 00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:34,480 Speaker 1: I think sometimes we're our worst, our own worst enemies, 1023 00:51:34,560 --> 00:51:37,759 Speaker 1: like clean ethical, you know, limit it to the the 1024 00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:40,160 Speaker 1: I don't even I'm to the point maybe I'm getting softer. 1025 00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:41,759 Speaker 1: Like I was watching something I was sick the other 1026 00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:43,120 Speaker 1: day and I was watching a lot of white til 1027 00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:45,960 Speaker 1: hunting on TV. Some people edit out. They'll show you 1028 00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:49,120 Speaker 1: the shot, and then they'll like show you the animal 1029 00:51:49,160 --> 00:51:51,120 Speaker 1: dead across the field, and then some people show you 1030 00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:53,920 Speaker 1: like the deer running all over spinning or like staggering 1031 00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:55,880 Speaker 1: for minutes with blood. I'm like, I don't want to 1032 00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:56,520 Speaker 1: see that either. 1033 00:51:56,960 --> 00:51:59,479 Speaker 2: Yeah, like disturbing just a lot of people. 1034 00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:01,880 Speaker 1: I don't like that. I don't like that moment of 1035 00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:04,879 Speaker 1: time between the shot hitting it and the animal being 1036 00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:08,040 Speaker 1: like fully fully expired. Like I don't like that timeline 1037 00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:09,960 Speaker 1: at all. I don't like anything about it. 1038 00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:12,279 Speaker 2: I don't I don't like watching it myself. I don't 1039 00:52:12,360 --> 00:52:13,759 Speaker 2: like to see. I don't like to sit there and 1040 00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:16,799 Speaker 2: watch the animal, you know, slowly let life slip from 1041 00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:19,200 Speaker 2: its eyes or you know, from its body, like in 1042 00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:21,520 Speaker 2: the blood whatever. I don't I don't take joy and 1043 00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:23,680 Speaker 2: seeing that. I don't. I don't, I don't watch that. 1044 00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:26,040 Speaker 2: It's it is disturbing. Even as a hunter, I've I've 1045 00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:29,120 Speaker 2: killed lots of animals, and I don't take any kind 1046 00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:30,480 Speaker 2: of joy in seeing that. 1047 00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:35,200 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So there's a public service announcement for everybody. 1048 00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:38,000 Speaker 2: Let's let's go back to the trophy hunting things. They 1049 00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:40,279 Speaker 2: will lump that right in with trophy hunt. They will 1050 00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:43,440 Speaker 2: take those examples, say look at what this trophy hunter did. Yep, 1051 00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:47,160 Speaker 2: and it just gives it gives us a bad name, 1052 00:52:47,239 --> 00:52:48,319 Speaker 2: a bad bad look. 1053 00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:51,000 Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, thank you everybody for tuning into cutting in 1054 00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:51,480 Speaker 1: the distance. 1055 00:52:52,719 --> 00:53:07,640 Speaker 2: Thanks guys at