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Speaker 1: Also media.

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Speaker 2: You see Costco be like, hey man, we don't sell.

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Speaker 1: That, we don't sell that baby oil.

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Speaker 2: Okay, hey, look, don't be speaking on my name. Don't

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Speaker 2: be speaking keep my name out your fucking mouth.

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Speaker 1: I can't believe you tried to throw fucking uh Costco

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Speaker 1: into the back.

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Speaker 3: Costco is like, hold up, hold up, this shit you

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Speaker 3: got going is not with us. That is true. To

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Speaker 3: keep my name about your mouth.

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Speaker 1: See if I if I was dead to rights and

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Speaker 1: only lying about Costco could get me off, I would

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Speaker 1: I would take the fall for Costco.

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Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, what did Costco do to you?

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Speaker 1: Except for Costco's Costco has done so much for me exactly,

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Speaker 1: mostly provide me with olives.

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Speaker 4: But you know, I feel like if there's somebody that

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Speaker 4: you don't go after in America, it's Costco.

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Speaker 1: I feel like it's it's it's the closest thing. We

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Speaker 1: have Costco in the post office. Like that's what we

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Speaker 1: have as like beloved institutions in this country.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, honestly, yes, Like you what what have they done

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Speaker 2: wrong except for provide to us everything that feeds our decadence?

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Speaker 2: Like this is all this is, It's the most American thing,

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Speaker 2: Like you know what I'm saying, like, Hey, you want

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Speaker 2: some mayonnaise, why don't you get a drum of it?

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Speaker 4: Personally, I don't. I don't enjoy going to Costco because

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Speaker 4: the aisles are really high, and as a person who's

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Speaker 4: very short, I'm like, this feels like a bad way

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Speaker 4: to go, like the fear of this argument. M hmm.

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Speaker 4: Plus it's just there's too many.

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Speaker 2: Fucking people anywhere where you could buy some dickies and

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Speaker 2: like you know, wild caught salmon in the same place.

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Speaker 2: I'm like this, this is American man.

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Speaker 4: I often just think about that man that got that

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Speaker 4: shirt made of the sticker for the barcode for the

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Speaker 4: rotisserie chicken. You know what I'm talking about? Yes, Okay,

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Speaker 4: I think about I think about him quite often. Like

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Speaker 4: I hope you're well, sir.

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Speaker 3: It's a hero, bro Robert, we've been recording.

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Speaker 4: This entire time. Are we keeping this Costco conversation? In

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Speaker 4: I I.

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Speaker 1: We're not allowed to cut the Costco conversation? Yeah, prop

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Speaker 1: we're talking about the Jeffrey Epstein of the Philippines. His

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Speaker 1: name is Apollo Cloid. Anyway, Cold Open's fucking done. Oh

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Speaker 1: we're back, boy, we really just kind of dropped media

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Speaker 1: res into this. Motherfucker didn't we didn't We Are the

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Speaker 1: kids learning words like that anymore? Do they have that

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Speaker 1: on the tiktoks? I assume if it's not on the tiktoks,

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Speaker 1: the kids aren't learning it anymore. I've become one of

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Speaker 1: those old men who's angry at the kids for not

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Speaker 1: having read the same things I read when I was

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Speaker 1: in high school, coming like the great Gadsby.

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Speaker 2: I feel like you were a you've been you've been

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Speaker 2: an old man since you're junior year of high school.

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Speaker 1: It is, it is, yeah, it is, it is.

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Speaker 3: I have nothing to say.

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Speaker 2: No.

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Speaker 3: My brother was like that.

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Speaker 2: He was just like I was, like when he turned sixteen,

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Speaker 2: we were like, you're forty. Yeah, you are a forty

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Speaker 2: year old, sixteen year old mm hmm.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think a lot of us are

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Speaker 1: like that. And my knees have always been forty. Jason Petty,

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Speaker 1: host of Hood Politics, also guest on Behind the Bastards Today.

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Speaker 1: Prop Yeah, buddy, we go back a bit at this point.

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Speaker 1: You and I have been friends friends for a spell,

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Speaker 1: and this year, you know, I've called on you a

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Speaker 1: couple of times for some real tough episodes, the Bobby

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Speaker 1: Lee episodes, and the Thomas Jefferson episodes, not easy ones.

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Speaker 1: And I was like, I want to do something fun

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Speaker 1: for my friend Jason when he comes back on the show.

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Speaker 1: We're not going to do, you know, some fucking slaveholding

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Speaker 1: monster from American history. We're not going to do. You know,

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Speaker 1: We're gonna We're gonna steer clear of the United States entirely.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna do a fun one. I'm gonna find him

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Speaker 1: like a nice cot beater or something. Anyway, I fucked up,

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Speaker 1: and we're doing the Jeffrey Epstein of the Philippines. It

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Speaker 1: was not Jeffrey Epstein. If it was just a guy

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Speaker 1: named Jeffrey Epstein in the Philippines, that would be probably

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Speaker 1: responsible of me.

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Speaker 2: You just got me a ballique Bayon box of trash

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Speaker 2: that you just brought over. That's shot out to all

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Speaker 2: my penoise y'all, I'm gonna throw just tell y'all right now,

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Speaker 2: my stepmom's Filipino.

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Speaker 3: You know she's beside it. She's from Domaghetti.

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Speaker 2: My best friend who I toured forever, DJ Fectol Rest

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Speaker 2: in peace, Filipino. I'm from the part of town that's

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Speaker 2: like a good forty percent Filipino, So there's gonna be

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Speaker 2: a gang of Filipino jokes. I'm gonna drop in here.

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Speaker 1: That's good, that's good.

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Speaker 3: So many references that I'm gonna drop in this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I yess yeah. Well, I guess there's nothing

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Speaker 1: to do but get into it. The guy we're talking

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Speaker 1: about today as a man, I'm gonna guess most Americans

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Speaker 1: have not heard of, although he committed a decent number

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Speaker 1: of his crimes in the United States. His name is

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Speaker 1: Apollo Kiboloi, which I checked on Google. Right before this.

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Speaker 1: I listened to two different pronunciation videos that both said

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Speaker 1: it differently. Hopefully that's right. But I did just my

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Speaker 1: background research here.

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Speaker 3: We could call him, we could just call him the

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Speaker 3: like weird.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, anyway, it is.

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Speaker 1: This is finally an Apollo episode I've been wanting to

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Speaker 1: do ever since a Greek man punched me out at

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Speaker 1: a Delhi, I've been wanting to do an episode on

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Speaker 1: men named Apollo. Unfortunately, this is not a Greek Apollo,

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Speaker 1: nor does the name have anything to do with Greek mythology.

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Speaker 1: That's a little bit weird at least it I don't

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Speaker 1: think it does.

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Speaker 4: Okay, that's not. The weird part is what happened right

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Speaker 4: before you said that you got punched.

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Speaker 3: Why you get.

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Speaker 1: A lot of deli's So yeah, that's just what happens

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Speaker 1: at a deli. If you're someone who feels about cured

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Speaker 1: meats as strongly as I do.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like there's some sort of there's some sort of

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Speaker 2: accidental insults you did.

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Speaker 1: Oh it was purposeful.

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Speaker 3: Oh never mind, Okay.

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Speaker 1: No, he that his saying is wrong. Yeah, yeah, we

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Speaker 1: had a scrap. So I'm not gonna say a whole

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Speaker 1: lot about Jeffrey Epstein in these episodes. I bring this

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Speaker 1: up because like that is what a lot of people

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Speaker 1: write when they've been doing articles. As a spoiler, A

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Speaker 1: bunch of shit blew up with Apollo very recently. His

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Speaker 1: life has collapsed this year, and so when because his

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Speaker 1: story is crazy, news media all around the world wants

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Speaker 1: to cover it because it's just the kind of thing

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Speaker 1: you got to cover. But because it's a Filipinos story

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Speaker 1: and most people are not familiar with this guy. He's

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Speaker 1: very famous within the Philippines, but most people are not

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Speaker 1: familiar with this guy, you know, in other countries. The

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Speaker 1: touchstone that the news has picked is he's the Jeffrey

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Speaker 1: Epstein of the Philippines, and I can say, you know, look,

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Speaker 1: that's a little bit you know, grow but also I

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Speaker 1: want your clicks too, you know, I'm not too proud

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Speaker 1: to go for those clicks. Right, Listen, listen, listen.

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Speaker 2: When you can neatly package something that it may be

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Speaker 2: a little rough around edges, I'm maybe cutting out a

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Speaker 2: lot of factual things, but it's but it's a digestible pill.

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Speaker 3: I'm with you, Yeah, absolutely with it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's the way. And it's also there's something

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Speaker 1: appropriate in terms of like we're never going to give

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Speaker 1: Jeffrey the punishment that he deserved because he punched out early,

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Speaker 1: but making his name like he really has in very

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Speaker 1: short order. He's not like a Hitler level, but in

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Speaker 1: terms of like name that is a recognizable shorthand for evil,

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Speaker 1: he's gotten shockingly close in a very short period of time.

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Speaker 1: You'd be like, yeah, that guy's a motherfucking Epstein. Everyone's like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I know what you mean. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally, I

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Speaker 1: love it. He's a proper now now, you know, like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I love it. And that's appropriate, That's that's what he deserves.

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Speaker 1: So wow, we Yeah, that's a reference. Was it's a

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Speaker 1: it's a TV show kind of a game. Anyway, google

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Speaker 1: it one day.

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Speaker 3: Wow. We it's a fun time.

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Speaker 1: I want to go to the Philippines, especially now that

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Speaker 1: our former Bastards Pod alumni Uhrigo to Terte is no

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Speaker 1: longer running things there. Always wanted to see it but

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Speaker 1: haven't been. It doesn't enough.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, my dad, my dad said he's gonna move with

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Speaker 2: with with my stepmom to the Philippines.

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Speaker 3: And I was like, brother, no, you not. I'm just

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Speaker 3: looking at him, like, you're not leaving the city. Your dad,

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Speaker 3: your dad, my dad?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, my dad. I was like, Sir, I get it.

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Speaker 3: I feel you. He's like, man, I'm retired.

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Speaker 2: He's like, bro, we got it, son, we got Helsa.

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Speaker 2: Guy like two cows. I was like, so you're gonna

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Speaker 2: move to the Have.

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Speaker 1: You taken care of a cow? Because he's not as

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Speaker 1: fun as I was like, Dad, you from I grew

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Speaker 1: up with a lot of cows and they are a

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Speaker 1: mixed bag. You are a.

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Speaker 3: City boy, Okay.

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Speaker 1: I don't think you're ready for the amount of poop

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Speaker 1: you're gonna have to deal with. Great for heat, sir,

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Speaker 1: this is a jungle. Yeah, anyway, So Apollo carry on.

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Speaker 1: Kibbeloi was born on April twenty fifth, nineteen fifty, about

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Speaker 1: you know, four years out from the end of the

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Speaker 1: US withdrawal from the Philippines. Right, so you know, the

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Speaker 1: World War two happens, right, Japan is like, hey, we'd

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Speaker 1: like the Philippines, and the US is like, here's Douglas MacArthur.

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Speaker 1: He'll stop you. And then Douglas MacArthur's like, no, I

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Speaker 1: won't actually, And so Japan, Japan has the Philippines for

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Speaker 1: a little while, and then we come back, right, and yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's the that's the way it goes, you know, eventually

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Speaker 1: we leave anyway. Kind of. So his hometown Apollos was

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Speaker 1: de Vos City, which is where Rodrigo ju Terte got

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Speaker 1: his start as mayor, right like, that is where he

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Speaker 1: kind of you know started his political career too. And

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Speaker 1: these two men are very strongly tied together, right. Terte

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Speaker 1: is the guy who killed thou probably of drug users

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Speaker 1: and associated people during his time as this brutal authoritarian

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Speaker 1: president he did leave office, so not really dictator, but

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Speaker 1: very bad strong man type president. And Apollo in here

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Speaker 1: very close, so I'm not bringing him up just because

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Speaker 1: like he's the other guy from the Philippines we've covered

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Speaker 1: so far, right, Yeah, I know two guys from the Philippine. No,

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Speaker 1: he is directly tied in this story. So Apollo, the

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Speaker 1: youngest of nine children, was named again, not after the

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Speaker 1: Greek god or the much more impressive Apollo Creed, but

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Speaker 1: after Mount Oppo, a dormant volcano that, at almost ten

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Speaker 1: thousand feet above sea level, is the highest peak in

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Speaker 1: the Philippines. I should note here that I read on

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Speaker 1: Apollo's churches website that he had been named after a mountain,

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Speaker 1: and when I went to look up the first result

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Speaker 1: for Apollo Mountain, I found this book, which has nothing

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Speaker 1: to do with the story, but it made me laugh.

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Speaker 1: Mountain min Eventswood Valley, Aaron Havoc. That can't be a name.

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Speaker 1: So if you're trying to imagine what young child Apollo

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Speaker 1: CIBOLOI looks like, this is exactly I'm assuming this is.

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Speaker 3: A picture of him. Yeah, yeah, totally nice soul.

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Speaker 1: Yes, So yeah, anyway, I pointed this out. I put

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Speaker 1: this up also to point out that Google is just

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Speaker 1: really knocking it out of the park these I don't know,

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Speaker 1: great results always relevant to my search queries.

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Speaker 2: Like if there's anybody that say, hey, let's do something

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Speaker 2: good and then start not doing it good and see

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Speaker 2: if y'all stick around.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it would be like if I started a podcast

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Speaker 1: about all of the worst people in history and then

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Speaker 1: at a certain point pivoted to just doing ads for

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Speaker 1: the Church of Scientology, just long extended ads for the Scientology.

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Speaker 3: Why is you doing this?

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Speaker 1: Even wanted to clean Tom Cruise's house. Well, there's a way, sorry, anyway.

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Speaker 1: Decade after his birth, the website for the cult that

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Speaker 1: Apollo would come to lead said this about the day

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Speaker 1: that he was born at home quote.

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Speaker 2: Hey, holdo, holdo, hold on, you slipped in the cult

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Speaker 2: he was about to lead that no point was there

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Speaker 2: a warning.

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Speaker 1: That this was he had a cult? I did not.

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Speaker 1: I think I might have mentioned he had a cult.

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Speaker 1: He's got a cult.

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Speaker 4: You said no, no, no. You said you were going

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Speaker 4: to try to find a nice little cult episode.

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Speaker 3: For produde, and then you said you failed.

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Speaker 4: You failed that.

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Speaker 1: Well I failed at it being nice because those.

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Speaker 3: Wait time out.

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Speaker 1: But it is a cult episode.

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Speaker 3: I appreciate getting the cult.

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Speaker 1: Yeah I did. There's a certain point at research it

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Speaker 1: which you can't turn back around and pick another topic.

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Speaker 4: I feel like you we're doing it. You just give

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Speaker 4: a politicians answer, but us Okay.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Sophie. I'm getting ready for my big presidential run.

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Speaker 1: Uh And I just want to let you guys know

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to be responsible with the nukes. That's

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Speaker 1: my promise. You're not going to have nowhere about it nevermore.

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Speaker 2: I've never been more convinced to not vote for somebody

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Speaker 2: than if Robert was running.

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Speaker 1: Like, I think this is going to go well with

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Speaker 1: a lot of people because look, you know Donald Trump,

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Speaker 1: who knows what he's going to do with the nukes, right,

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden, Oh, sleepy Joe. We just don't know much

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Speaker 1: about his mind state. Me. You know I'm going to

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Speaker 1: use them, and you know I'm not going to use them. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's a promise. You don't have to worry about it anymore.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I feel you know, some people you

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Speaker 2: want cooking, some people you won't, cleaning.

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Speaker 1: Some people don't dropping the H bomb on Lake Superior. Okay, anyway,

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Speaker 1: he's the script. So from the club site for his cult,

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Speaker 1: this is what it said about the day that he

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Speaker 1: was born night. I should say that he was born

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Speaker 1: at home. The knight suddenly turned to day moments after

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Speaker 1: his birth, and a huge eagle had perched in the

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Speaker 1: trees outside their home and had stayed there until he

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Speaker 1: was born. So let's you know, God turned night into

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Speaker 1: day and eagle watched over him. All the good stuff

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Speaker 1: on some.

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Speaker 3: Found.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, so yeah, his family had was poor, or

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Speaker 2: at least that's kind of what the stories say.

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Speaker 1: You get the feeling maybe they were closer to I mean,

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Speaker 1: the middle class was not really a big thing in

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Speaker 1: the Philippines at this time, but I don't think they

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Speaker 1: were as poor as he kind of likes to portray

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Speaker 1: them as. But his parents may have been prior to

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Speaker 1: having him. They had immigrated from the family's ancestral home

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Speaker 1: in Lubao after World War Two in order to find work,

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Speaker 1: which is what brings them to Da Vos City. By

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Speaker 1: the time Apollo came into the picture, they seem to

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Speaker 1: have been solidly working class. His biography claiming that though

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Speaker 1: the family was poor, they were happy. Now, I found

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Speaker 1: what appears to be a picture of his family from

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Speaker 1: a news report. It's into Galog, it's not translated, but

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Speaker 1: from what I can tell it looks like the kid

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Speaker 1: in the middle because it zooms in on him is

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Speaker 1: the our center. So and you can see just looking

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Speaker 1: at the hair, you can tell to own a cult

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Speaker 1: like that, that kid winds up a cult leader. I'm sorry.

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Speaker 1: Kid on the left probably not kid on the right,

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Speaker 1: maybe you know, but kid in the middle, that's a

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Speaker 1: cult leader. Yeah. For so you can just tell.

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Speaker 3: You can look at all of his days in Quias

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Speaker 3: he was.

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Speaker 1: Although that baby in the back looks kind of like alive,

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Speaker 1: not alive. Maybe that's a doll. I can't really tell.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if I love the very incense skin

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Speaker 1: tones there. That baby does not look well.

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Speaker 3: Right, maybe the.

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Speaker 1: Flash was on. So it's a little unclear to me. Again,

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Speaker 1: just how to characterize the family socioeconomic status. Because his

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Speaker 1: parents became pastor leaders at a Pentecostal church in Defoul

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Speaker 1: early on. His dad had been raised Protestant, like mainline Protestant, right,

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Speaker 1: which which put because obviously like Pentecostal church is a

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Speaker 1: Protestant denomination, but it's also kind of it's not mainline,

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Speaker 1: you wouldn't say, And this kind of put them in

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Speaker 1: the fact that he kind of moves to the Pinna

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Speaker 1: Costal faith puts them in line with a big post

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Speaker 1: war trend in the Philippines. American missionaries had brought Pentecostalism

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Speaker 1: to the country, but it was spread largely by these

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Speaker 1: kind of swashbuckling and these guys are Filipinos, swashbuckling like

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Speaker 1: pioneer church planters who are like Johnny Apple, seeds of

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Speaker 1: Pentecostal churches. And they're I mean, the term they use

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Speaker 1: is planting churches and these like settlements in the frontier

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Speaker 1: that are established in the jungle. Right yeah, Now, if

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Speaker 1: you're not aware of a lot of this, Pentecostalism is

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Speaker 1: a strain of Protestant Christianity that emphasizes charismatic practices like

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Speaker 1: speaking in tongues and what's called baptism in the Holy Spirit.

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Speaker 1: These are the kind of folks. They don't just believe

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Speaker 1: in miracles. They believe that God often bestows miraculous ability

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Speaker 1: and powers on members of churches during worship sessions.

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Speaker 3: Right. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: My argument is, like I've always argued that, like Philippine know, y'all,

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Speaker 2: y'all black is hell. I don't care what you say,

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Speaker 2: like you are black Asians. Yeah, somehow they're black and

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Speaker 2: Latino at the same time. Like, so to me, the

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Speaker 2: idea that it's like yeah, and then as a Pentecostal church,

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Speaker 2: I'm like, of course it is, because y'all black.

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Speaker 1: Is hell, they're also there's like a I'm not obviously

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Speaker 1: qualified to comment on that, but the fact that there's

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Speaker 1: a huge American influence on the way worship works there,

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Speaker 1: right yeah, yeah, you see here in this because i

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Speaker 1: mean we were there for quite a while.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, right, totally.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So his father must have been a man of

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Speaker 1: some ability and personal magnetism, because he does very well

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Speaker 1: in the Pentecostal faith as it is kind of sweeping

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Speaker 1: the country. And it seems that a skill for like

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Speaker 1: preaching and you know, like that kind of charismatic preaching

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Speaker 1: ran in the family because Apollo's older brother, Jose eventually

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Speaker 1: becomes the assistant general superintendent of the largest Pentecostal organization

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Speaker 1: in the Philippines. Now, one noteworthy fact about the Kiboloi

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Speaker 1: family is that they seem to have rejected there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of like in the area they're growing up in

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Speaker 1: kind of the rural area, and like the slums, there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of communist organizing when he's a little kid

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Speaker 1: that is sweeping through the surrounding communities, and they are

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Speaker 1: very much against it. This is a very conservative anti

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Speaker 1: communist family. We get very little here. This is something

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Speaker 1: I've kind of read in between the lines and also

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Speaker 1: just kind of based on stuff that happens later. But

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Speaker 1: due to a vaguely defined hardship that may have been

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Speaker 1: related to a conflict with like these local communist groups,

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Speaker 1: which are insurgent organizations. Apollo is moved away from home

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Speaker 1: as a boy to live with his older sister. I

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Speaker 1: don't know why. Just some of the stuff I've read

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Speaker 1: make me think it may have been tied to some

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Speaker 1: political conflicts in their hometown. I don't actually know, though.

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Speaker 2: It's also like, what's interesting this may I don't know

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Speaker 2: if this is going to play in later, but I

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Speaker 2: feel like it probably will because of, like you said,

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Speaker 2: the communist thing. Like while Pentecostalism might be very theologically

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Speaker 2: on the fringes, like it fringes a strong word, but

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Speaker 2: like theologically liberal, they're actually very socially conservative. It's very like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: you know very much about like your performance of holiness.

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Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying. And that holiness is something

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Speaker 2: that you'd like. They don't drink, they don't smoke, they

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Speaker 2: don't you know what I'm saying. They're they're not free

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Speaker 2: with what you know folks will call like their liberties.

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Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 2: It's very much like you know, with for us, like

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Speaker 2: you know, that's the older generation for.

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Speaker 3: A lot of like black people.

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Speaker 2: So it's like you don't listen second music, you don't

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Speaker 2: watch rated our movies, you know what I'm saying, because

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Speaker 2: you're supposed to be holy, you feel me, and a

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Speaker 2: lot of that has to do what you being filled

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Speaker 2: with the holy ghost, you know what I'm saying. So

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Speaker 2: so to hear that like the play of like communism

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Speaker 2: may be in a thing, it makes sense to me

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Speaker 2: of those two things being together in that sense.

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Speaker 3: It may not play in later, but I think it's.

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Speaker 1: Oh it does. No, no, no. As an adult, he is

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Speaker 1: going to have some dealings with his local commune that

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Speaker 1: are very much not pretty. So this is I'm not

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Speaker 1: bringing this stuff up for nothing, and I do kind

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Speaker 1: of because of some stuff he's going to say later.

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Speaker 1: I do suspect that like this is part of the

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Speaker 1: kind of why he's uprooted as a little boy, you know,

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Speaker 1: but I don't actually know that to a point of

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Speaker 1: certainty either way. He gets moved away when he's like

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Speaker 1: a kid to live with his oldest sister. His official

400
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Speaker 1: biography claims it was there that he learned the hard

401
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Speaker 1: lessons of responsibility through the rule of the stick. You

402
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Speaker 1: don't get a feeling, Yeah, you don't get a feeling.

403
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Speaker 1: She was a nice aunt, right, not on literally, but yeah,

404
00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:42,080
Speaker 1: yeah yeah. For eight years he attended school and worked

405
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Speaker 1: at his sister's bakery. He became, as he would later claim,

406
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Speaker 1: and again this is a liar, a diligent student. And

407
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Speaker 1: that quote. When he became a teenager, he forget all

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Speaker 1: about having friends or having fun because there just wasn't

409
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Speaker 1: time for that in his life. Again, maybe that's true.

410
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Speaker 1: I don't know. Between the lines a bit, we can

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Speaker 1: probably assume that he was not a happy boy, separated

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Speaker 1: from his family and used as free labor by his sister.

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Speaker 1: At age fourteen, he had his first vision from God,

414
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Speaker 1: a hallucination about the end of the world, with fire

415
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Speaker 1: raining from the sky igniting the gasoline depots near his

416
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Speaker 1: sister's home. Quote. People tried to escape into the sea,

417
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Speaker 1: but even the water was a flame, there was nowhere

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Speaker 1: to go. No, obviously, I don't believe this guy is

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Speaker 1: the prophet of or you know, would he's he's actually

420
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Speaker 1: going to claim the literal son of God. But I

421
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Speaker 1: also that's specific enough that I would believe that that's

422
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Speaker 1: an actual nightmare he had as opposed to he made up,

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Speaker 1: Like that's really the whole Igniting the gas depots near

424
00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,439
Speaker 1: his sister home is like such a specific thing to

425
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Speaker 1: bring up that that strikes me as like maybe something

426
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Speaker 1: something that was at some point came into his head

427
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Speaker 1: as opposed to something he made up later to justify

428
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Speaker 1: starting a cult, or night after night, the dream repeated itself.

429
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Speaker 1: Apollo would graduate and attend a Bible college, where he

430
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Speaker 1: finally came to realize that his nightmares weren't nightmares. They

431
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Speaker 1: were visions of the Second Coming. This, he would later write,

432
00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:10,359
Speaker 1: allowed him to make peace with the upheaval and difficulty

433
00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:13,520
Speaker 1: of his childhood. Quote he realized that his childhood was

434
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:17,160
Speaker 1: all part of the father's orchestration. His sister was only

435
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,800
Speaker 1: an instrument, a tool that the father had used to

436
00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:23,359
Speaker 1: mold him in the principles of discipline and responsibility that

437
00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:26,600
Speaker 1: made him into a vessel ready for the Father's incredible

438
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:33,119
Speaker 1: calling in his life. Now clearly yeah.

439
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:35,719
Speaker 3: God turned around for good. Yeah yeah.

440
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:37,520
Speaker 1: A lot of this is this part I think is

441
00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:39,919
Speaker 1: made up after the fact to justify the cult that

442
00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:42,080
Speaker 1: he starts. But I do find it interesting that he

443
00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:45,920
Speaker 1: describes his sister as just a tool meant to mold

444
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:47,600
Speaker 1: him into shape. That's part of how you could see

445
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:49,720
Speaker 1: like there must have been a real conflict here. That's

446
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:52,000
Speaker 1: a very mean way to describe your sister.

447
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:55,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and also very Pentecostal, yes.

448
00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:58,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes yeah. And it also it kind of does

449
00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:00,200
Speaker 1: mirror the fact that his sister seems to have used

450
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:02,000
Speaker 1: him as like basically a tool for free.

451
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:03,520
Speaker 3: Labor, right for sure. Yeah.

452
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:06,320
Speaker 1: On his church's website, Apollo or one of his followers

453
00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:08,200
Speaker 1: makes it clear that he didn't want to go to

454
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:10,720
Speaker 1: Bible school. His real dream was to be a pilot,

455
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:13,760
Speaker 1: but ultimately the fact that tuition and room and board

456
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:16,639
Speaker 1: were free are what swayed him. This was his first

457
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:19,320
Speaker 1: chance at independence from his sister, and he took it.

458
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:22,119
Speaker 1: As he continued to pray, he was visited by God

459
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:24,239
Speaker 1: in dreams and he was told that he had been

460
00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:27,520
Speaker 1: anointed to spread the gospel. Quote the gift was so

461
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:30,679
Speaker 1: extraordinary that Pastor Apollo had to check himself every now

462
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:32,840
Speaker 1: and then to see if he was still sane, if

463
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:35,239
Speaker 1: what he was saying still made sense, if he had

464
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 1: not after all, gone mad.

465
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:42,600
Speaker 2: Now, okay, yeah.

466
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:41,719
Speaker 3: Am I tripping?

467
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:45,800
Speaker 2: Like y'all listen, listen, Yeah, tell me if I'm tripping.

468
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:47,919
Speaker 2: It might be to ube, It might have been a

469
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:53,960
Speaker 2: bad bull of Denuguan. Am I tripping? But I'm pretty

470
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:55,920
Speaker 2: sure an angel was in his room last night. Now

471
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:56,720
Speaker 2: I might be tripping.

472
00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 1: I think I might be here to bring about the apocalypse,

473
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,640
Speaker 1: you know, anybody.

474
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:05,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, like, look, stop me at any time.

475
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:08,239
Speaker 2: But like, I'll pull the post down. I'll pull it

476
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:10,840
Speaker 2: down if I need to delete it. But like I

477
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:12,679
Speaker 2: think I am the pale horse.

478
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:16,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, look, a lot of us think we're

479
00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:19,200
Speaker 1: the pale horse. There's nothing crazy about that, you know. Yeah, yeah,

480
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:21,960
Speaker 1: if you think you're the pale horse, just keep riding, baby,

481
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:22,840
Speaker 1: Just keep riding.

482
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:25,239
Speaker 2: You know, you won't have to do much about it.

483
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:27,600
Speaker 2: You'll you'll do what you're doing, whether you try to

484
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:27,919
Speaker 2: do or not.

485
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:29,159
Speaker 3: If you're a pale horse.

486
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 1: Maybe start on the East coast though, do me a

487
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:35,919
Speaker 1: solid huh okay anyway, So I think Apollo is a

488
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,240
Speaker 1: savvy man, and he's smart enough to pay attention and

489
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:41,320
Speaker 1: see that by nineteen seventy two when he graduates Bible College,

490
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:45,359
Speaker 1: American style charismatic churches are spreading everywhere, not just in

491
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,520
Speaker 1: the Philippines, the most sophisticated of them. Because we've talked

492
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,600
Speaker 1: about on our TV Joshua episodes, how this is a

493
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:53,479
Speaker 1: lot of this is happening in parts of Africa too,

494
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 1: right around this period of time, a little later in Africa,

495
00:24:56,160 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 1: in like Central Africa, the most sophisticated of these churches

496
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:03,880
Speaker 1: had embraced the radio and increasingly television as a way

497
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 1: to reach more people than could ever fill a physical church.

498
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:10,399
Speaker 1: And he is someone who sees this happening. He's fairly insightful,

499
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:12,399
Speaker 1: and he understands there's a lot of money and power

500
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:15,359
Speaker 1: in making myself one of these men. And you know,

501
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 1: furthering on that point, he has a gift for preaching

502
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:20,639
Speaker 1: that he finds that is, you know, seems to to

503
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,359
Speaker 1: some extent be something that is in his family, but

504
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:27,920
Speaker 1: that he's clearly got. He is special in this church. Yeah,

505
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 1: he's got the juice. His bio claims he could preach

506
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:33,200
Speaker 1: as much as seven times a day because he had

507
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:35,199
Speaker 1: to get all those words out of him. He had

508
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:37,679
Speaker 1: a full schedule all year round, and such was his

509
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,160
Speaker 1: passion and zeal that even if woken in the middle

510
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:42,160
Speaker 1: of the night to preach, he would get up and go.

511
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:45,399
Speaker 1: He became a famous evangelist because of this. He earned

512
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 1: the nickname preaching machine. I've actually heard this before. In

513
00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:52,480
Speaker 1: the US. I talk a lot about a documentary called

514
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 1: Marjoe that's about a guy, Marjo Gordner, who back in

515
00:25:56,040 --> 00:26:00,960
Speaker 1: like the fucking forties, is the youngest preacher in the

516
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:05,400
Speaker 1: United States. Ary together travels, yes, yes, his parents, who

517
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 1: are very abusive, are like taking him around, and he

518
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 1: does a documentary as an adult, just kind of about

519
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:14,680
Speaker 1: the actual gritty underside of this like traveling preacher industry.

520
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 1: And he is the kind of person who because he

521
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 1: does it a few times, it's like a party trick.

522
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 1: He can just lapse into a twenty minute sermon that

523
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:25,119
Speaker 1: is this like big fire in Brimstone shit rhymes like

524
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 1: he's great at it. Like yeah, some people like and

525
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:29,959
Speaker 1: this is you know, it's both there's a degree of

526
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 1: like natural talent, and he works at this right like

527
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 1: you do have to. There's it's this is not you know,

528
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 1: purely talent. There's a lot of skill here too. You

529
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 1: know that is crafty.

530
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would.

531
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:43,639
Speaker 2: I would say that, like that's something that you know,

532
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:48,360
Speaker 2: the the craft. Obviously, again I keep bringing up the blackness.

533
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:49,919
Speaker 2: O don't know, I keep bringing it up, but like

534
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 2: I think the craft of preaching is something that you know.

535
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,159
Speaker 2: In our culture, we do see as this is a

536
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 2: spiritual gift, like like God has given you this gift

537
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 2: and all you really need is just the training in

538
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 2: the actual text. And like once you know the text,

539
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 2: you got the gift. You called to be a preacher,

540
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:12,639
Speaker 2: but you can't. But you can't help the call. Like

541
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 2: God has given you this gift, so like it would

542
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 2: be irresponsible for us to not let you use it.

543
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:21,400
Speaker 2: And then oftentimes because this person is just so gifted

544
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:23,639
Speaker 2: down be knowing what they talking about, and you can

545
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 2: get away with so much because you so gifted, you

546
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:28,919
Speaker 2: know what I mean. So I'm always like whenever anybody,

547
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 2: especially around like when people fall for some sort of

548
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 2: like charismatic speaker and it ends up being a cult

549
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 2: like it's as silly as that is, as far as

550
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:40,640
Speaker 2: like you're not having your antennas. Like some people are

551
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 2: just really good communicators. And it's like if you, if you,

552
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 2: if you like snap out for a second and just

553
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 2: suspend reality, fam you fall for it.

554
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:49,879
Speaker 3: Too, you know what I'm saying.

555
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:53,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, And that's like that, that's that's

556
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 1: where this guy is. He is the kind of person

557
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:59,560
Speaker 1: who can just make a crowd lose themselves, right, Yeah,

558
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 1: really like listening to him. So yeah, he made waves

559
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:08,359
Speaker 1: within his local church, and in nineteen seventy three, one

560
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:10,680
Speaker 1: year out of Bible College, he was sent to an

561
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 1: expo in Soul, that's South Korea for Pentecostal youth activists,

562
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 1: which he attended as part of because, like again, the

563
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:22,160
Speaker 1: Philippines a political situation at the time. He attends as

564
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,360
Speaker 1: part of the American and Canadian delegations. He is the

565
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 1: only Filipino at the event. He is the only Asian

566
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 1: in his delegation of one hundred and eighty six people.

567
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:34,679
Speaker 1: We can again infer that this is yeah, I mean

568
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 1: obviously there's of course people in Korea, American and Canadian delegations. Yeah, yeah,

569
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 1: we can infer that this was a lonely time for Apollo,

570
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 1: given how many times he stresses being the only non

571
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,200
Speaker 1: white kid in his group, And it is here that

572
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 1: he claims to have first heard the voice of God

573
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 1: clearly give him instructions announcing his divine plans to use Apollo.

574
00:28:57,200 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 1: So Apollo naturally goes to the adult leaders and chef

575
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 1: ruins for his group and it's like, hey, God just

576
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 1: told me he's got some big old plans for me.

577
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:08,239
Speaker 1: And their response, I don't know if it tells you

578
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 1: that like the rest of the charismatic movement is more grounded,

579
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 1: you know, at this point than it is today, or

580
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 1: just that they're racist and they're not willing to listen

581
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 1: to this, this torpedo kid, but a b.

582
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 3: Fam tell you experienced. Buddy's a byway, take your pick. Yeah.

583
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 1: After listening to him, the American missionaries gently but firmly

584
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:30,120
Speaker 1: told him, you know, when you pray that it's you

585
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 1: talking to God. But when you hear God talking to you,

586
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 1: there's something wrong. You need to see a doctor.

587
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 2: Oh no, no, they just yeah, because that's that doesn't

588
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 2: that's yeah, yeah, no, no, y'all racist, because Pedecosa needed

589
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:44,120
Speaker 2: you supposed to.

590
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 3: You can't.

591
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 2: You can't in charge until God speaks. So like that's

592
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 2: why charge be last and set outs. We got to

593
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 2: wait until we got to tarry to the Lord.

594
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:54,240
Speaker 3: I'm saying, So, no, y'all just racist.

595
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:55,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you have to try it. I think

596
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 1: you have to pronounce it as like oh no, no, no,

597
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 1: no no. When you pray, that's you talking to God.

598
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 1: But when you hear God talking to you the exactly wrong. Yeah,

599
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 1: every pict it ben ends with the Lord told me. Yeah,

600
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 1: So like, no, fam No, I just think that's fair.

601
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 1: What else is fair, prop is the prices of the

602
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 1: products and services that support this podcast. You know, if

603
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 1: you can find a better deal, I will personally slash

604
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 1: the tires of the CEO of that company.

605
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 2: Hopefully, so hopefully, hopefully hopefully Goldilocks is the sponsor again,

606
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 2: another fili final joke right there, Azusa.

607
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 3: Sorry, it's a it's like a bakery.

608
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 1: Anymore, slash of bakery's tires.

609
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 3: I don't know, right, not.

610
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 1: Man, what you.

611
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 4: Know what I'm saying, Yeah, for legal purposes, he's joking.

612
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe definitely. Anyway, we're back. Oh my gosh, everyone's

613
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:03,440
Speaker 1: having a good time. I'm not, uh who, Well, fine,

614
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 1: all right. So Apollo at this point is like, well,

615
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 1: these guys don't believe what I'm saying, but you know,

616
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 1: I'm going to keep listening to these voices and keep preaching.

617
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 1: And things go well for him. The very next year,

618
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 1: he has adopted national president for the organization that like

619
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 1: the largest Pentecostal organization in the Philippines. And soon after

620
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 1: this he meets an American girl and he starts dating her.

621
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 1: Effect I only bring up because he brags about it

622
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 1: quite a bit in his biography of quote, he was

623
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 1: the apple of the eye of his denomination. He had

624
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 1: a beautiful American girlfriend that they wanted him to marry.

625
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 1: His career path to the top was clear. People loved him.

626
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 1: Wherever he went. He was treated like a prince. The

627
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 1: detail that they wanted him to his denomination wanted him

628
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 1: to marry this American.

629
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 3: That's interesting.

630
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 1: There's a lot there that I may be I'm definitely

631
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 1: not the right person to analyze, but that is interesting.

632
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, Nah, that's that's good.

633
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 1: Yeah.

634
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 2: There's a there's a phrase in Spanish that it may

635
00:31:59,880 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 2: not necessarily be the same concept. It's called advance the race, right,

636
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 2: so like, uh so, like what that What they're basically

637
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 2: saying is like, get you a white person, Joe saying, so,

638
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:18,880
Speaker 2: get you an American white person, and it advances us.

639
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 2: So it's like, you're you're pushing our culture forward, you're

640
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 2: pushing the family forward, You're pushing on well forward. So

641
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:27,200
Speaker 2: like so when you get you somebody like light skin

642
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 2: or an American white person, then this is like the

643
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:32,840
Speaker 2: best thing for us, you know what I'm saying.

644
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 3: So it's possible.

645
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 2: I don't know if this is what he's going at,

646
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 2: but it's possible that like that's kind of a vibe

647
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 2: where it's like, oh yeah, no, yeah, no.

648
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:42,960
Speaker 3: No, no, no, they want me to marry her. I don't know.

649
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying, like, is what we're doing.

650
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:47,480
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying, I'm advancing. You know, it's

651
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 2: a flex. It's a flex to pull, to pull an.

652
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 3: American yep, yep.

653
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 1: The next lines in his biography are that these American

654
00:32:55,880 --> 00:33:00,479
Speaker 1: missionaries who are jealous he kind of infers her jealous

655
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 1: that he's dating this American girl, are also become jealous

656
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 1: of his success, and they decide to sabotage him, and

657
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 1: he claims that this is what eventually set him on

658
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 1: the path to creating his own denomination and church. And

659
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 1: it's here that I finally do have some evidence to

660
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 1: the contrary to bring up, because we are when it

661
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 1: comes to the rest of this stuff, we are kind

662
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,960
Speaker 1: of reliant upon his recollections of his early life. Here

663
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:27,360
Speaker 1: we have some outside information. So his claim I started

664
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 1: having conflicts with the broader Pentecostal denomination in the Philippines

665
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 1: because these American missionaries didn't like me, didn't like that

666
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 1: I was seeing this girl from their country, didn't like

667
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 1: how good I was. That's not the whole story. Residents

668
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:43,800
Speaker 1: from the mountainous rural region of kit Bog, where Apollo

669
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 1: claims to have had some of his greatest revelations, recalled

670
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 1: to a local newsmagazine, raptler dot Com, that back in

671
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 1: the nineteen seventies, Apollo was a young preacher and basically

672
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 1: acted as a sidekick to a government employee, Major Sanchez,

673
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 1: who had been sent by the resident to look into

674
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 1: the issues facing the indigenous communities in the area. Now,

675
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 1: this is particularly worth noting because the president at that

676
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 1: point was Ferdinand Marcos. So if your name is if

677
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:18,399
Speaker 1: everyone calls you Major Sanchez, and you are sent by

678
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 1: Ferdinand Marcos to look into issues. Yeah yeah, facing indigenous

679
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 1: communities and a part of the Philippines in the nineteen seventies.

680
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:29,000
Speaker 3: It's not agree.

681
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:31,479
Speaker 1: You're not doing anything good. It's not good.

682
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 3: This is bad news man.

683
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:38,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, today, the Philippines is it does not rank well.

684
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 1: I don't like to reduce countries to like where they

685
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 1: are and like the corruption index, right, but today they're

686
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 1: at about one sixteen out of one eighty, and things

687
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 1: are worse when Marcos is the dictator, right y. Marcos

688
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:53,840
Speaker 1: is famous for awarding his cronies with you know, the

689
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:56,880
Speaker 1: basically like you would get like a job like this.

690
00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 1: The purpose of a job like this is to reward

691
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:01,960
Speaker 1: someone who was lower to you by letting them go

692
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 1: rob a bunch of people blind, you know, with ribes,

693
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 1: with like giving contracts different companies to let them like

694
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:11,800
Speaker 1: strip mind shit. Right, yeah, that's what Sanchez is doing

695
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 1: in this area, right in kind bog these are licenses

696
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 1: to embezzle and rob people blind. And the fact that

697
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:21,839
Speaker 1: Apollo is like following Sanchez around is kind of his

698
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:24,880
Speaker 1: tame preacher, where Sanchez is like, hey, these people are

699
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 1: religious as hell, I'm going to be strip mining their

700
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 1: lives away. You keep them entertained, right, yeah, that's yeah,

701
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:35,320
Speaker 1: that's the insinuation. Yeah yeah, yeah yeah. About our boy Apollo,

702
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 1: what he is doing at this point, as opposed to

703
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:42,280
Speaker 1: he's just so good at preaching that these Americans are angry, right.

704
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:45,280
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah.

705
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:47,800
Speaker 1: As a sidekick of the Major, we can assume Apollo

706
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:51,280
Speaker 1: made connections to other corrupt figures of the Marcos age

707
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:53,160
Speaker 1: and put aside more than a little bit of other

708
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:56,400
Speaker 1: people's money for himself, because that's just how it worked.

709
00:35:56,760 --> 00:36:00,080
Speaker 1: Whatever these specific details, it was bad enough what he

710
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 1: did with this major. We don't know exactly what he did,

711
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:05,759
Speaker 1: but it was bad enough that the entire like the

712
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:10,880
Speaker 1: Pentecostal Church in the Philippines, this fellowships him in nineteen

713
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:14,840
Speaker 1: seventy nine, specifically because of his relationship to the Major,

714
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:18,240
Speaker 1: which is an extreme measure, right.

715
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:20,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, don't you don't give somebody a left

716
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:23,640
Speaker 2: handed fellowship. But yeah, unless it's like real.

717
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:27,720
Speaker 1: So his claim the Americans didn't want me there because

718
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:31,760
Speaker 1: you know, they were jealous, the actual information, the actual

719
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:36,080
Speaker 1: like reporting, suggests he was kicked out by his own people,

720
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 1: because he was hideously corrupt and involved in a figure

721
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:42,839
Speaker 1: associated with this regime that, by the end of the

722
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 1: seventies was not very popular. He does that it's not

723
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 1: that bad for him, because he gets to make a

724
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:53,279
Speaker 1: public apology and is accepted back the next year. So

725
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:55,880
Speaker 1: we are whatever his involvement was, it was not hideous

726
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:57,840
Speaker 1: enough that like someone's going to murder his ass in

727
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:02,040
Speaker 1: the street or whatever. But it was bad, right. Apollo

728
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:04,960
Speaker 1: is reassigned after he gets let back into the church

729
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 1: to head up a church in Agdow, where he developed

730
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:12,319
Speaker 1: a habit of ranting angrily about his colleagues, who had

731
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:15,440
Speaker 1: kicked him out of the church briefly. By nineteen eighty five,

732
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:17,839
Speaker 1: this had caused enough problems that he was at risk

733
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 1: of being kicked out yet again. Now you have the facts,

734
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:24,200
Speaker 1: this is clear the story of a corrupt asshole who

735
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 1: got a second chance he never deserved. This is not

736
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:30,800
Speaker 1: how Apollo would later tell the story. Quote his heart

737
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:34,360
Speaker 1: was so sincere, passionate and hungry for the Lord and

738
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:36,920
Speaker 1: to follow what was written in his word, but he

739
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:39,920
Speaker 1: could not see the same thing in his denomination. He

740
00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 1: felt heartsore and disappointed. God really wants me robbing these

741
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 1: indigenous people.

742
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:50,480
Speaker 4: For Marcos heart was so sincere, passionate and hungry for

743
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:54,480
Speaker 4: the Lord. It's like a bad Christian mingle. Bile, it's

744
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:56,480
Speaker 4: a bad Christian mingle, bye said.

745
00:37:56,520 --> 00:38:00,879
Speaker 2: But listen, listen, consider it a blessing when they lie

746
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:03,759
Speaker 2: and persecute you. Blessed is he was persecuted for my

747
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:04,439
Speaker 2: name's sake.

748
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:04,920
Speaker 3: Listen.

749
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:07,960
Speaker 2: I was bringing the Gospel and I got persecuted for it.

750
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:11,560
Speaker 2: So I'm in the fellowship of the suffering of our Savior.

751
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:14,120
Speaker 2: It's doing the work of the Lord.

752
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 4: And yeah, literally, it's like there's like this prompt and

753
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:19,920
Speaker 4: all the diating apps that are like how would your

754
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:22,480
Speaker 4: friends describe you? And then they write it themselves and

755
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:25,839
Speaker 4: He's like, his heart was so sincere and passionate and.

756
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:29,759
Speaker 1: Hungry for I'm going to create a dating profile on

757
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:32,960
Speaker 1: my grinder in Portland for this guy, just using quotes

758
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 1: from his and see how it does. See how it does.

759
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,239
Speaker 4: Quote Robert, Let's find you some love.

760
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:40,719
Speaker 1: I just feel some love.

761
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:44,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, because your your heart was so passionate and hungry

762
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 4: from the Lord.

763
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 2: I'm going to be dress. Yeah, drop that nuke. I

764
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:52,280
Speaker 2: dropped that nuke with a good heart.

765
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:56,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly exactly. You know, it was a

766
00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:59,839
Speaker 1: loving nuke. So he writes that quote what he saw

767
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 1: in his denomination was politics and a failure to follow

768
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 1: what the father wanted. The cry in his heart was,

769
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:07,440
Speaker 1: is this all? I want something more? And when you

770
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:09,719
Speaker 1: think about all the bribes he was taking, I think

771
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:12,560
Speaker 1: that that sentence is has a little bit of a

772
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:13,560
Speaker 1: different field to it.

773
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 3: Come on, come on man.

774
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 1: On September one, nineteen eighty five, Apollo was scheduled to

775
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:21,920
Speaker 1: have what you might call a come to Jesus meeting,

776
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:24,640
Speaker 1: a literal come to Jesus meeting with his superiors at

777
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 1: the church, where they were going to grill him on

778
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:29,439
Speaker 1: the fact that he had been telling his congregation all

779
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:33,279
Speaker 1: of the other pastors were quote unqualified and ignorant, basically like,

780
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:36,799
Speaker 1: and you have to stop talking shit about the VisiC call.

781
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, like I had a mission this, sir. I need

782
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:41,320
Speaker 3: you to sit down for a second.

783
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, we are unhappy with you. Yes, yeah, so yeah.

784
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:51,279
Speaker 1: Instead of making that meeting, Apollo's like, well, fuck this shit,

785
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:52,840
Speaker 1: I don't need I know where this is going to go.

786
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 1: I don't need to sit for this. I'm going to

787
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:55,360
Speaker 1: start a cult.

788
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:58,799
Speaker 2: It's time road of vipers. Yeah, lost your ways?

789
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:00,439
Speaker 4: What else can I I do?

790
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:04,839
Speaker 3: I have to obey the Holy Spirit, the Spirit. Am

791
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:05,920
Speaker 3: I gonna listen to man?

792
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 2: Or?

793
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:07,759
Speaker 3: Am I gonna listen to God? Yeah?

794
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:08,239
Speaker 1: That's right?

795
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:10,360
Speaker 4: And what else was he supposed to do?

796
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:12,879
Speaker 3: Cult? Obviously that's the only option.

797
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 2: I have to follow the spirit, and the Spirit is

798
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:18,040
Speaker 2: leading me to do because the Lord said, And that's

799
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:23,080
Speaker 2: what's that's the in some senses as bonkers as Pentecostal

800
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 2: church is they My mama used to say this. Everybody

801
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:29,200
Speaker 2: that does say it the Lord. The Lord ain't thus

802
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 2: say My mama used to say that. So like, so

803
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 2: at least they going fam listen. The other Filipinos was like,

804
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 2: by day, you ain't here from God. That's not what

805
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:44,640
Speaker 2: you're saying is not factual.

806
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:45,520
Speaker 3: That's funny.

807
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:51,920
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, so they yeah, they're like, you know, he

808
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:54,520
Speaker 1: has this meeting that he bounces on, and his version

809
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:57,160
Speaker 1: of events, he claims that he decided to skip the

810
00:40:57,200 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 1: meeting because an anonymous man visited him and told him

811
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 1: they should meet up at a hotel later that night

812
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:05,120
Speaker 1: so he could share a mission from God. Now listen, folks,

813
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:08,279
Speaker 1: if this ever happens to you. Do not make that

814
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:12,200
Speaker 1: meeting list. That is something terrible is going to happen

815
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 1: in that hotel, Sir, They're gonna make light of it.

816
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:17,759
Speaker 1: I'm just going to say, you know the bad thing

817
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 1: that'll happen in that hotel, root du Yeah.

818
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:23,040
Speaker 4: You.

819
00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:28,040
Speaker 3: Turn you into a noble bro like you like.

820
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:28,719
Speaker 4: Do not.

821
00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 1: Do not go to that Yeah. Now here's how he

822
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:37,480
Speaker 1: describes the meeting that follows. When he got there, the

823
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:40,640
Speaker 1: man surprisingly told him nothing except to sleep there in

824
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:42,880
Speaker 1: the room, since the hour was late. It was twelve

825
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:45,239
Speaker 1: oh one in the evening. But as he lay down,

826
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 1: he was catapulted suddenly into a vision. He saw the

827
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:51,160
Speaker 1: ceiling open up to the night sky, showing the stars twinkling,

828
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:53,120
Speaker 1: clear and bright. He did not know if he was

829
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 1: a sleeper awake, but he knew it was the open heaven.

830
00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:58,600
Speaker 1: One bright star was growing bigger and bigger, drawing down

831
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:01,799
Speaker 1: slowly closer, until a hand with a white sleeve was

832
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 1: revealed to be holding a heavy, shiny bronze cauldron. The

833
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:07,799
Speaker 1: hand held the cauldron before him as though just a

834
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 1: few feet away, and turned it and Pastor Apollo immediately

835
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:13,680
Speaker 1: read the words written on one side strive to rhyme

836
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 1: for unity. When the hand turned the cauldron the other way,

837
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:19,759
Speaker 1: he saw words written there, not in any language he knew,

838
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 1: and as he read it, a voice said, these words

839
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 1: are for you only tell no one, and Pastor Apollo

840
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:30,480
Speaker 1: has kept those words secret to this day. Wow, I

841
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:31,439
Speaker 1: don't know, yea.

842
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:34,080
Speaker 2: The whole Like he's there's so many things in there

843
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:37,360
Speaker 2: that like require a level of nerdery.

844
00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:46,120
Speaker 3: Like there's a he's invoking. I think it's Barsk Corinthians.

845
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:51,879
Speaker 2: He's invoking image and that's all talked about being brought

846
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:54,799
Speaker 2: into the third heavens. When he was like, Lord put

847
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 2: me to sleep. I don't know if I was awake

848
00:42:57,400 --> 00:42:59,360
Speaker 2: or asleep, I can't tell you, but I saw this

849
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:03,839
Speaker 2: vision and I was given I was shown an image

850
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:08,280
Speaker 2: that I still can't utter. So he's like, he's he's

851
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 2: like really invoking some like Apostle Paul type, like I

852
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:15,799
Speaker 2: am starting a church imagery, you know what I'm saying.

853
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:18,200
Speaker 1: That makes sense, That makes a lot of sense. Yeah,

854
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:21,480
Speaker 1: that's what he's involing, specifically what he's bringing in because

855
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:23,880
Speaker 1: I just I just found this very familiar to my

856
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:27,200
Speaker 1: experience being invited into a hotel room by someone who

857
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:29,120
Speaker 1: told me they were going to show me God, and

858
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:31,880
Speaker 1: then the hallucinations that I had later, And I have

859
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:35,440
Speaker 1: kept the words I heard that day secret, but for

860
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:36,720
Speaker 1: a very different reason.

861
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 3: Yeah.

862
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:38,360
Speaker 1: Anyways, yeah, the.

863
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:40,640
Speaker 3: Words, the words. The words you got was from the

864
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:42,920
Speaker 3: lsd in this and the dude saying.

865
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:47,000
Speaker 1: It was from a copy of that Terence mckinna book

866
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:47,920
Speaker 1: about mushrooms.

867
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:52,880
Speaker 4: The voice, the voice said, never stop podcasting.

868
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:56,120
Speaker 1: That is right. I hear that voice every second of

869
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:58,120
Speaker 1: my life, Sophie, every second of my life.

870
00:43:58,160 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 3: That's just me, I.

871
00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 1: Believe, you know.

872
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:01,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, the voice is like, so what are you guys

873
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:02,640
Speaker 2: talking about next week?

874
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 1: God?

875
00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 4: God?

876
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:06,880
Speaker 1: Just yeah, yeah, there there there are different kinds of

877
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:09,640
Speaker 1: beliefs systems around the world that like believe that you

878
00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:12,279
Speaker 1: literally sing the world into being and there has to

879
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:16,920
Speaker 1: always be somebody like singing in order to like keep reality,

880
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:20,319
Speaker 1: you know, like like humming along. And I I am

881
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:24,120
Speaker 1: that for podcasting, right. As long as I'm podcasting, you know,

882
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:28,760
Speaker 1: the firmament will will stay above us, but it will

883
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:31,400
Speaker 1: collapse and bring about a thousand years of fire.

884
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:36,880
Speaker 2: The instaart I stop. You are the Greek of podcast Yeah,

885
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:37,800
Speaker 2: so keep listening.

886
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:38,240
Speaker 1: Folks.

887
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:41,440
Speaker 4: Yes, and speaking of listening, it's time to listen to

888
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:42,400
Speaker 4: these ads.

889
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:45,480
Speaker 1: You're right. So you're right, dude, that was speaking of Yeah,

890
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:46,320
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you.

891
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:47,040
Speaker 3: That was good.

892
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:47,960
Speaker 4: How was icy of me?

893
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:58,920
Speaker 1: Very We're back. So Apollo has abandoned his church and

894
00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:00,920
Speaker 1: act out and he's taken and a core group of

895
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:04,960
Speaker 1: loyal followers about fifteen people, and established his new totally

896
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:08,880
Speaker 1: independent church, the Kingdom of Jesus Christ, Thy name above

897
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:12,000
Speaker 1: every name, which is every word of that is capitalized.

898
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:15,200
Speaker 3: That's a lot of a no abbreviation of it.

899
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:18,600
Speaker 1: KOJC is usually what you get for the which is

900
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:20,960
Speaker 1: a lot easier to say that is a that is

901
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:24,560
Speaker 1: a heavy, heavy nas. He sets it up in a

902
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:26,880
Speaker 1: slum nearby where his old church had been.

903
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 2: Uh.

904
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:30,040
Speaker 1: And as soon as he's got this church of his own,

905
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:32,480
Speaker 1: he starts preaching to his first followers, and again there's

906
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:34,920
Speaker 1: like a little over a dozen of them. He tells

907
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 1: them that, hey, this is not your daddy's pentecostal faith,

908
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:41,880
Speaker 1: and I'm not just a preacher. I am now the

909
00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:46,239
Speaker 1: quote appointed son of God, Now what does that mean?

910
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:51,360
Speaker 1: Prop Because he's not saying I am like this coming,

911
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:55,279
Speaker 1: no man of God. Yeah, he said, it sounds to me,

912
00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:58,520
Speaker 1: and maybe something is lost in the translation here, although

913
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:03,279
Speaker 1: he does he does preach a lot in the English.

914
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:06,319
Speaker 1: Is he saying that like appointed? Like God was like,

915
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:09,440
Speaker 1: you know what, You're not my born kid, but you

916
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:12,439
Speaker 1: and I are so tight. I signed the papers, right,

917
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:15,879
Speaker 1: I have adopted you officially, you were like the son

918
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:17,320
Speaker 1: of God because I picked you.

919
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:17,520
Speaker 2: You know.

920
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:20,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, not like that Jesus guy. Just get by in

921
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:21,279
Speaker 1: his blood.

922
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:22,000
Speaker 3: You feel me?

923
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:25,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, you just you were born in that's nepotism. No,

924
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:29,000
Speaker 2: there is an idea. There are two ideas. Yeah, there's

925
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:31,920
Speaker 2: two ideas in there. They're like the idea of salvation

926
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:35,120
Speaker 2: is an adoption into being the sons of God. Right,

927
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:37,719
Speaker 2: so there's like there's that concept, right, But then what

928
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:41,400
Speaker 2: he's saying is again I'm pulling on like the idea

929
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:45,720
Speaker 2: of the Pentecostal idea of being the anointed one, which

930
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:49,080
Speaker 2: is like there's the capital anointed one that's Jesus, and

931
00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:52,120
Speaker 2: then there's anointed as in being set apart, being chosen

932
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:56,120
Speaker 2: by God for this particular time. And what he's or

933
00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:58,239
Speaker 2: like like the old folks who say for such a

934
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:00,680
Speaker 2: time as this, you know what I'm saying. So what

935
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:03,040
Speaker 2: I feel like what he's invoking is like I am

936
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:06,120
Speaker 2: God's chosen for this moment in this season. I am

937
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 2: the anointed one for now. So it's like lowercase anointed.

938
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:11,680
Speaker 2: I'm thinking that's what he's saying. That makes sense, That

939
00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:13,640
Speaker 2: makes sense. Yeah, I could see that being it.

940
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 3: But now I.

941
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:17,600
Speaker 1: Should also note that appointed son of God. You'll hear

942
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:20,120
Speaker 1: that a lot. That is not close to his only nickname,

943
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:24,200
Speaker 1: his I supposeer for where this goes FBI indictments that

944
00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:28,560
Speaker 1: he notes that he also went by sir Pastor ACQ.

945
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:31,480
Speaker 1: Not really sure where that one came from. I think

946
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:35,000
Speaker 1: that's just maybe his nick like his initials and yeah,

947
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:36,680
Speaker 1: that's got to be his initials. And one of his

948
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:41,000
Speaker 1: favorite nicknames on his church website is the extremely unwieldy

949
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:44,440
Speaker 1: man who was chosen when the Father's hand of appointment

950
00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:47,120
Speaker 1: came upon his life and he did not fail him.

951
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:50,920
Speaker 1: Woo howdy howdy. That's a nickname.

952
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:51,920
Speaker 3: That's a nickname.

953
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:56,280
Speaker 1: This is the has clauses. You may editor.

954
00:47:56,880 --> 00:48:01,000
Speaker 2: Listen, oh man, they say so because like still like

955
00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:04,279
Speaker 2: you know you for like you go to church with

956
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:07,359
Speaker 2: your grandma, Like when a pastor walks in, they say, man,

957
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:09,360
Speaker 2: of God. You know what I'm saying, Like, you address

958
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:11,360
Speaker 2: the pastor as the man of God, you know what

959
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:13,920
Speaker 2: I'm saying, So like there is an element of like

960
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 2: sort of this hierarchy that kind of exists in that denomination.

961
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:24,200
Speaker 2: And then there's the level you talk about, which is like,

962
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:27,040
Speaker 2: oh words, So you you the Man of God Plus?

963
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:29,320
Speaker 3: Like, you know what I'm saying, You the plus streaming series.

964
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:29,839
Speaker 3: You feel me?

965
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:31,920
Speaker 2: Like you get We're we all just got we all

966
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:33,240
Speaker 2: just got the free trial version.

967
00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 3: We got the seven ninety nine.

968
00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:36,680
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying, You got the Poteen ninety

969
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:38,719
Speaker 2: nine version of the Anointing.

970
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:42,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's he's a double stuffed oreo of whole dumble stuff.

971
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:43,879
Speaker 3: He got a double portion any one of those new.

972
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:46,440
Speaker 1: Coke flavored oreos. I don't know, you know, I'm not

973
00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:49,640
Speaker 1: a theologian, you know, I think I think religious scholars,

974
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:51,680
Speaker 1: rabbis and the like could debate over that.

975
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:52,760
Speaker 3: Yeah.

976
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:56,479
Speaker 1: So the next decade and change are a busy time

977
00:48:56,520 --> 00:49:00,480
Speaker 1: for Apollo. He continued to accumulate followers at a startling rate.

978
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:04,080
Speaker 1: He is very good at building an organization. He has

979
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:07,600
Speaker 1: a robust media operation that spreads videos of church sessions

980
00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:10,520
Speaker 1: where he would speak in tongues and perform miracles, and

981
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:15,200
Speaker 1: as he brought in followers, obviously, so came money. He purchased,

982
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:19,120
Speaker 1: like any good cult leader, a forested compound on the mountain.

983
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:22,600
Speaker 1: That was his namesake. Right, he's got his mountain compound now.

984
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:25,880
Speaker 1: In one TV interview, he claimed that this mountain compound

985
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:31,120
Speaker 1: is proof that God had restored the Garden of Eden. WHOA, yeah,

986
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:32,879
Speaker 1: I got the Garden of Eden. You can come.

987
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:35,600
Speaker 3: It's nice.

988
00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:40,120
Speaker 1: It's nice. There's worse picks for a location. That's how

989
00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:40,400
Speaker 1: it is.

990
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:42,120
Speaker 2: You know, I'm saying, go up there in the mountains,

991
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:44,399
Speaker 2: get that, Get that a hundred year old lady, give

992
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:45,080
Speaker 2: you the tattoo.

993
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:47,560
Speaker 3: Right, That's that's some Garden of Eden type stuff.

994
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:51,759
Speaker 1: I feel you sure. I don't know how apples do

995
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:53,960
Speaker 1: over there, to be honest, but they got other fruit.

996
00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:57,640
Speaker 1: They got other fruit. So God apparently also really liked

997
00:49:57,680 --> 00:50:00,680
Speaker 1: the idea of shotgutting a shitload of money to Rodrigo

998
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:03,320
Speaker 1: du Terte, who at this point becomes the mayor of

999
00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:06,480
Speaker 1: du Vos City in nineteen eighty eight after the People

1000
00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:11,360
Speaker 1: Power Revolution. Du Terte was Apollo's most prominent political friend

1001
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:14,799
Speaker 1: of the post marcos Era right, and ju Terte would

1002
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:17,280
Speaker 1: later claim to owe some of his rights to power

1003
00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:20,440
Speaker 1: to the fact that Apollo's church gives a shitload of

1004
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:23,480
Speaker 1: money to him at the start of his political campaign.

1005
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:26,160
Speaker 1: So again he gets jump started in a big way

1006
00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:30,759
Speaker 1: by Apollo Kiboloi's cult. Now, given the corruption endemic to

1007
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:33,719
Speaker 1: du Terte's regime and the fact that Apollo's already been

1008
00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:36,800
Speaker 1: caught up in some shady shit, you might assume maybe

1009
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:38,839
Speaker 1: is there some like sinister quid pro quo here?

1010
00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:39,080
Speaker 2: Right?

1011
00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:41,280
Speaker 1: Is he backing this guy? So this guy is going

1012
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:44,040
Speaker 1: to like once he's mayor help him get away with

1013
00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:48,800
Speaker 1: some crimes. Don't worry, Rodrigo Duterte would never do that

1014
00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:52,280
Speaker 1: sort of thing, of course not, And in an interview

1015
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:54,880
Speaker 1: for The Inquirer, he assured the world that this was

1016
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:58,319
Speaker 1: never the case. Quote it was ju Terte himself who

1017
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:01,480
Speaker 1: said that the wealthy preacher doesn't have other friends, I

1018
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:04,640
Speaker 1: mean a friend he can really trust, stressing this as

1019
00:51:04,680 --> 00:51:07,720
Speaker 1: the reason that KABOLOI has been giving him expensive gifts.

1020
00:51:08,719 --> 00:51:12,000
Speaker 1: No no, no, no, this corruption and just needs a friend.

1021
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:12,560
Speaker 3: You know.

1022
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:15,680
Speaker 1: Look, trying to be there for my body when.

1023
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:18,200
Speaker 2: You exist in our stratosphere, like in the in the

1024
00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:20,239
Speaker 2: social sphere that we exist, and it's hard to have

1025
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:21,279
Speaker 2: people that trust you.

1026
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:22,600
Speaker 3: You think everybody.

1027
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:24,840
Speaker 2: Needs some right, right, so you just it just gets lonely,

1028
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:28,000
Speaker 2: you know, and like I just wanted to do something

1029
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:29,239
Speaker 2: nice with the Humes.

1030
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:32,279
Speaker 1: Right, right, exactly exactly. You know what, we should all

1031
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:35,600
Speaker 1: be grateful that there are people like Rodrigo Jutte out

1032
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:38,400
Speaker 1: there who are willing to be friends with a poor,

1033
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:42,680
Speaker 1: you know, lonely cult leader with three to seven million

1034
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:45,000
Speaker 1: followers around the world. Right, you know, no one is

1035
00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:46,279
Speaker 1: lonelier than a man like that.

1036
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:48,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, you can be alone among millions, man, that's right,

1037
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:51,360
Speaker 3: alone as beautiful prop that's beautiful.

1038
00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:56,080
Speaker 1: Yes, anyway, the poet so the ko JC quickly spreads

1039
00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:58,800
Speaker 1: to become one of the largest Pentecostal churches on earth,

1040
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:02,720
Speaker 1: somewhere between three and seven million followers. I've heard both numbers.

1041
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:05,960
Speaker 1: Most of these are in and around Manila, but you

1042
00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:08,799
Speaker 1: know a lot. He has people in multiple countries around

1043
00:52:08,840 --> 00:52:11,000
Speaker 1: the world. He has like sub churches dedicated to the

1044
00:52:11,080 --> 00:52:14,520
Speaker 1: KOJC and multiple countries including the United States.

1045
00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:15,400
Speaker 3: Wow.

1046
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:19,560
Speaker 1: Now, unlike most pastors, Apollo tells his growing flock it's

1047
00:52:19,560 --> 00:52:21,919
Speaker 1: not enough just to show up on Sunday to hear

1048
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:24,719
Speaker 1: me preach. You have to put your money where your

1049
00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:28,120
Speaker 1: mouth is. With a steadily increasing yearly tithe that by

1050
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:30,800
Speaker 1: two thousand and four was more than twelve hundred dollars

1051
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:33,640
Speaker 1: a year in a country where the average salary is

1052
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:36,759
Speaker 1: less than ten thousand dollars a year, gott a tie.

1053
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:38,560
Speaker 3: That is a game lesson tithe?

1054
00:52:38,680 --> 00:52:40,680
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, its yeah.

1055
00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:41,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah yeah yeah.

1056
00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:44,880
Speaker 2: You know, I will not give unto God that which

1057
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:45,680
Speaker 2: costs me nothing.

1058
00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:50,319
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. And memorandums sent to followers about the annual tithe,

1059
00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:52,840
Speaker 1: but with the signature office of the Son of God.

1060
00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:55,960
Speaker 1: So you really, that's not just like your local tax

1061
00:52:56,040 --> 00:52:59,200
Speaker 1: department or whatever. You know, that's not the fucking Department

1062
00:52:59,239 --> 00:53:01,279
Speaker 1: of Water and Power are sending you a bill. You

1063
00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:03,520
Speaker 1: really gotta get on that one.

1064
00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:08,600
Speaker 2: You gotta like listen, listen. You don't collection worth his wages,

1065
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:11,480
Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying. Will a man rob God?

1066
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:12,280
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1067
00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:13,640
Speaker 3: Will a man rob God?

1068
00:53:13,880 --> 00:53:14,240
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1069
00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:18,759
Speaker 3: Yeah? So money he's hitting all the high points, man, right,

1070
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:19,640
Speaker 3: he hit all.

1071
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:22,200
Speaker 1: He really is. Now money is not the only thing

1072
00:53:22,239 --> 00:53:24,760
Speaker 1: flowing Apollo's way. He began to get access to women

1073
00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:27,400
Speaker 1: as well. Many of them very young and desperate to

1074
00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:29,640
Speaker 1: forge some sort of connection to a man they believed

1075
00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:34,080
Speaker 1: might bring salvation. It is unclear precisely how when when

1076
00:53:34,160 --> 00:53:37,520
Speaker 1: Apollo started sleeping with his followers, but by no later

1077
00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:39,760
Speaker 1: than two thousand and two, he and his most trusted

1078
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:42,880
Speaker 1: aids had built a system within the church entirely designed

1079
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:47,200
Speaker 1: to funnel young girls up towards him. His church referred

1080
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:51,120
Speaker 1: to these people as pastorals, which was not an extant

1081
00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:54,080
Speaker 1: term in the faith, and referred to girls as young

1082
00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:58,160
Speaker 1: as eleven and basically never older than twenty five. An

1083
00:53:58,239 --> 00:54:04,160
Speaker 1: FBI indictment from twenty eighteen notes pastorals prepared defendant Kiboloy's meals,

1084
00:54:04,239 --> 00:54:08,160
Speaker 1: cleaned his residences, gave him massages using lotion, and traveled

1085
00:54:08,160 --> 00:54:10,239
Speaker 1: with him on trips throughout the world, to include the

1086
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:14,279
Speaker 1: United States. Pastorals engaged in sex with defendant KIBOLOI on

1087
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:17,960
Speaker 1: a schedule determined by defendants. That is happening again.

1088
00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:20,919
Speaker 3: Yes, it always gets to a dick.

1089
00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:24,560
Speaker 1: It's always, I like, because that's why people do this.

1090
00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:27,040
Speaker 1: That's why people make cults one way or the other.

1091
00:54:27,239 --> 00:54:30,080
Speaker 1: Usually every now and then you get like ol Ron

1092
00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:33,520
Speaker 1: Hubbard's cult. You know, it was purely about being able

1093
00:54:33,560 --> 00:54:36,160
Speaker 1: to absolutely control the lives of a bunch of people

1094
00:54:36,239 --> 00:54:39,200
Speaker 1: and make the power dig for dig for treasure. You know,

1095
00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:43,640
Speaker 1: he wasn't focused on the sex primarily, but most of

1096
00:54:43,640 --> 00:54:45,640
Speaker 1: them are. You know, that's that's a big thing for

1097
00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:49,680
Speaker 1: a lot of them. Yeah, pastorals engaged in sex with

1098
00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:53,000
Speaker 1: defendant KIBOLOI on a scheduled determined by defendants and what

1099
00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:56,440
Speaker 1: was referred to by pastorals as night duty for some

1100
00:54:56,480 --> 00:55:00,080
Speaker 1: past nights duty, night duty. I know that that's a

1101
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:04,319
Speaker 1: bad one. I don't like that at all. And you

1102
00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:07,000
Speaker 1: know the FBI notes for some pastorals, night duty began

1103
00:55:07,080 --> 00:55:11,319
Speaker 1: before the pastoral reached the age of eighteen. Now, these

1104
00:55:11,360 --> 00:55:15,000
Speaker 1: girls had all been not all but usually been raised

1105
00:55:15,040 --> 00:55:16,960
Speaker 1: in the church, which is a lot worse because these

1106
00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:18,960
Speaker 1: are girls who are raised to believe this is the

1107
00:55:19,040 --> 00:55:21,600
Speaker 1: literal son of God and like the Man of God. Yeah,

1108
00:55:21,680 --> 00:55:23,480
Speaker 1: he wants you close to him. He wants you to

1109
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:26,640
Speaker 1: He has chosen you, sister, to like you know, help

1110
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:28,560
Speaker 1: him and help him with his great work.

1111
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:30,760
Speaker 3: And that includes me some of his annoying.

1112
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:33,840
Speaker 1: They move along, and this is again not all that

1113
00:55:33,880 --> 00:55:36,879
Speaker 1: why not completely dissimilar from how Epstein did it right.

1114
00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:39,279
Speaker 1: Massages are kind of a key because it gets you, know,

1115
00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:41,680
Speaker 1: it gets them in the room with you, and then

1116
00:55:41,719 --> 00:55:45,040
Speaker 1: things can proceed from there. The difference here is that

1117
00:55:45,080 --> 00:55:47,399
Speaker 1: these girls had spent their lives being told this man

1118
00:55:47,719 --> 00:55:51,480
Speaker 1: was divine. Right now, the coaching to become a pastoral

1119
00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:53,680
Speaker 1: does seem to have taken some time, and a big

1120
00:55:53,719 --> 00:55:57,720
Speaker 1: part of the organizational structure of the church was set

1121
00:55:57,840 --> 00:56:01,239
Speaker 1: up to train and funnel these girls upward so that

1122
00:56:01,320 --> 00:56:04,160
Speaker 1: there's a steady supply of them. Sometimes it took years

1123
00:56:04,440 --> 00:56:07,120
Speaker 1: to get them ready for night duty. But they were

1124
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:09,960
Speaker 1: informed that night duty was a privilege and that the

1125
00:56:10,040 --> 00:56:14,160
Speaker 1: obedient would be rewarded, and they were KIBOLOI paid them

1126
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:16,840
Speaker 1: and stays at luxury hotels. These are often very poor

1127
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:20,279
Speaker 1: women and girls. Uh. He paid them in trips to

1128
00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:24,239
Speaker 1: tourist hotspots with annual cash rewards. For the the people

1129
00:56:24,280 --> 00:56:26,480
Speaker 1: who didn't want to accept this, he had a stick

1130
00:56:26,560 --> 00:56:28,719
Speaker 1: to go with the carrot, and that stick was hell.

1131
00:56:29,160 --> 00:56:32,680
Speaker 1: Refusing the pastor meant being set sentenced to eternal damnation.

1132
00:56:33,080 --> 00:56:33,160
Speaker 4: Uh.

1133
00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:35,680
Speaker 1: And again, this is the son of God.

1134
00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:38,920
Speaker 3: Man of God. Yeah, that's the thing.

1135
00:56:38,960 --> 00:56:40,719
Speaker 2: It's like, you want to you want to get close

1136
00:56:40,760 --> 00:56:42,640
Speaker 2: to the anointing. You want to get close to whatever

1137
00:56:42,719 --> 00:56:45,960
Speaker 2: gift gift does God's given him. Lord has chosen you.

1138
00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:48,480
Speaker 2: This is your reasonable service to the man of God

1139
00:56:48,600 --> 00:56:51,120
Speaker 2: who's given his life for our development.

1140
00:56:51,440 --> 00:56:53,640
Speaker 3: I mean this service.

1141
00:56:53,719 --> 00:56:56,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. Now, many of these girls, as I stated,

1142
00:56:56,800 --> 00:56:59,440
Speaker 1: have grown up very poor in rural slums, not unlike

1143
00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:01,920
Speaker 1: where Apollo it's spent much of his childhood. Some of

1144
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:04,160
Speaker 1: them had parents in the church, but others were targeted

1145
00:57:04,160 --> 00:57:07,120
Speaker 1: by Apollo's agents who were sent out into the poorous

1146
00:57:07,160 --> 00:57:10,680
Speaker 1: neighborhoods to look for teens and young adults who had

1147
00:57:10,800 --> 00:57:13,480
Speaker 1: like either had left their families or who could be

1148
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:17,480
Speaker 1: convinced to abandon their families. So like, go find kids

1149
00:57:17,520 --> 00:57:20,600
Speaker 1: on the margins and bring them in, promise them food,

1150
00:57:20,680 --> 00:57:23,360
Speaker 1: and then we can either turn them into laborers if

1151
00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:26,200
Speaker 1: they're not someone that Apollo wants to have sex with,

1152
00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:31,120
Speaker 1: or turn them into pastorals. Now the bulk again, the

1153
00:57:31,120 --> 00:57:34,560
Speaker 1: bulk of the people that are grabbed and are not

1154
00:57:34,680 --> 00:57:38,720
Speaker 1: kind of are trafficked. Are men, right, because these are

1155
00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:42,400
Speaker 1: He also needs workers, right, And these people are inducted

1156
00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:44,840
Speaker 1: into the church, they're made to separate tize with their

1157
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:47,880
Speaker 1: family and they're told that they now have to pay dues,

1158
00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:49,720
Speaker 1: and the fact that these are street kids who have

1159
00:57:49,800 --> 00:57:52,439
Speaker 1: no money is unimportant because there's a way for them

1160
00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:55,280
Speaker 1: to pay dues, as this article from the Philippine Daily

1161
00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:58,760
Speaker 1: Inquirer in two thousand and five notes. To support their church,

1162
00:57:58,840 --> 00:58:01,720
Speaker 1: the members are reportedly to sell church products door to

1163
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:04,760
Speaker 1: door during the annual month of Sacrifice, which lasts from

1164
00:58:04,760 --> 00:58:08,320
Speaker 1: November to January, which you may note is longer than

1165
00:58:08,320 --> 00:58:08,720
Speaker 1: a month.

1166
00:58:09,080 --> 00:58:12,960
Speaker 3: I was like that, do you mean November thirty?

1167
00:58:13,520 --> 00:58:16,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it does seem longer than a month.

1168
00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:17,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, longer than a month.

1169
00:58:18,080 --> 00:58:22,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, now that is Yeah. So Apollo also just doesn't

1170
00:58:22,640 --> 00:58:26,400
Speaker 1: let his followers off with just that small amount of sacrifice.

1171
00:58:26,520 --> 00:58:29,600
Speaker 1: He also required people to sell rice cakes, another branded crap,

1172
00:58:29,720 --> 00:58:32,160
Speaker 1: year round to fund the construction of a network of

1173
00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:36,200
Speaker 1: seventeen radio stations and a satellite television station that could

1174
00:58:36,240 --> 00:58:39,760
Speaker 1: reach forty cities in the Philippines. Growth of this sort,

1175
00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:42,640
Speaker 1: the kind that was experienced by the KOJC is an

1176
00:58:42,640 --> 00:58:45,640
Speaker 1: exits is an exponential thing, and by two thousand and seven,

1177
00:58:45,720 --> 00:58:49,760
Speaker 1: Apollo was ready to expand into the United States, particularly

1178
00:58:49,840 --> 00:58:55,280
Speaker 1: towards the large Philippine expat community. That existed in Southern California.

1179
00:58:55,480 --> 00:58:58,200
Speaker 1: It was only one problem. The kind of followers he

1180
00:58:58,280 --> 00:59:01,320
Speaker 1: might get in the US are likelier to have an

1181
00:59:01,400 --> 00:59:05,480
Speaker 1: understanding of their rights to understand, like there's law enforcement

1182
00:59:05,600 --> 00:59:08,280
Speaker 1: they can go to to understand, there's media they can

1183
00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:10,720
Speaker 1: go to to have like money that makes them less

1184
00:59:10,760 --> 00:59:14,560
Speaker 1: vulnerable to you know, kidnapping like this. Right, So maybe

1185
00:59:14,600 --> 00:59:16,840
Speaker 1: the locals aren't going to be the best picks for

1186
00:59:16,960 --> 00:59:19,240
Speaker 1: past storals. But he's not going to spend all of

1187
00:59:19,240 --> 00:59:22,000
Speaker 1: his time in the fucking palace that he's going to

1188
00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:25,840
Speaker 1: get for himself in Southern California without sex slaves. Right,

1189
00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:29,320
Speaker 1: He's not that kind of fellow. So there's only one

1190
00:59:29,360 --> 00:59:32,120
Speaker 1: way to make these two things work out. And that way,

1191
00:59:32,160 --> 00:59:35,720
Speaker 1: my friend, is a massive immigration scam. And that's what

1192
00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:38,040
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about when we come back for

1193
00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:38,720
Speaker 1: part two.

1194
00:59:38,840 --> 00:59:39,240
Speaker 3: Problems.

1195
00:59:39,280 --> 00:59:44,640
Speaker 2: Amazing, how you're feeling. I am not happy, and also

1196
00:59:47,080 --> 00:59:53,040
Speaker 2: I'm not happy period saying but also because the like

1197
00:59:53,320 --> 00:59:57,160
Speaker 2: Southern California, like Filipino community, and I know that, like

1198
00:59:57,920 --> 01:00:01,800
Speaker 2: Sophie can attest, is like such a big part of

1199
01:00:01,960 --> 01:00:04,720
Speaker 2: growing up out here, you know what I'm saying that, Like,

1200
01:00:05,280 --> 01:00:07,160
Speaker 2: you know, even in the part of town I was in.

1201
01:00:07,240 --> 01:00:11,360
Speaker 2: It was like they you default with Filipinos when they

1202
01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:13,560
Speaker 2: get here, they default to either being black as hell

1203
01:00:14,200 --> 01:00:19,000
Speaker 2: or like Mexican adjacent because they end up in our hoods.

1204
01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:21,720
Speaker 2: So like, you know, I remember there was the like

1205
01:00:21,720 --> 01:00:23,720
Speaker 2: in my neighborhood, it was all these cholos. There was

1206
01:00:23,760 --> 01:00:25,800
Speaker 2: all these like Mexican gangs, and then there was these

1207
01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:29,720
Speaker 2: like other cholos that kind of like they talk like

1208
01:00:29,760 --> 01:00:32,440
Speaker 2: black dudes, you know what I'm saying, But they dressed

1209
01:00:32,520 --> 01:00:37,360
Speaker 2: like like cholos, but then they look Asian, and I

1210
01:00:37,440 --> 01:00:40,640
Speaker 2: was like, what what are y'all? But y'all go to

1211
01:00:40,680 --> 01:00:44,720
Speaker 2: the same church as we go to because again they Pentecostal.

1212
01:00:44,800 --> 01:00:49,880
Speaker 2: And then it's like, oh, so Manila Sunset, So that

1213
01:00:49,960 --> 01:00:53,800
Speaker 2: restaurant that's not that's not Mexican food, you know what

1214
01:00:53,800 --> 01:00:55,880
Speaker 2: I'm saying. Like, so I'm just saying all that to

1215
01:00:55,920 --> 01:01:00,400
Speaker 2: say it's been such a community that we are so

1216
01:01:00,600 --> 01:01:01,520
Speaker 2: intertwined with.

1217
01:01:02,200 --> 01:01:03,320
Speaker 3: To know more of.

1218
01:01:03,280 --> 01:01:07,680
Speaker 2: This past is like, well, I'll be, well, I'll be

1219
01:01:08,080 --> 01:01:10,680
Speaker 2: you know, it sucks, but it's just like, dang, that's

1220
01:01:10,680 --> 01:01:11,520
Speaker 2: what y'all been going, y'all.

1221
01:01:11,560 --> 01:01:13,160
Speaker 3: Y'all was going there the whole time. Well, we was

1222
01:01:13,200 --> 01:01:15,240
Speaker 3: going through the war on drugs. That's what was happening

1223
01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:15,680
Speaker 3: with y'all.

1224
01:01:15,920 --> 01:01:21,160
Speaker 2: You know. Anyway, all right, everybody just out here selling Jesus' color.

1225
01:01:21,240 --> 01:01:27,920
Speaker 2: Monthsie just hollow, hollow for Jesus. Anyway, I'm going to

1226
01:01:28,000 --> 01:01:31,960
Speaker 2: sell something. I don't know what, but you know what,

1227
01:01:32,480 --> 01:01:36,200
Speaker 2: Sophie's going to be angry. And that's the note to end.

1228
01:01:36,080 --> 01:01:37,760
Speaker 3: On yep, it'scuche.

1229
01:01:41,480 --> 01:01:44,200
Speaker 4: Behind the Bastards is a production of Cool Zone Media.

1230
01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:47,160
Speaker 4: Or more from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool

1231
01:01:47,240 --> 01:01:51,200
Speaker 4: Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

1232
01:01:51,280 --> 01:01:54,800
Speaker 4: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Behind the

1233
01:01:54,800 --> 01:01:58,880
Speaker 4: Bastards is now available on YouTube, new episodes every Wednesday

1234
01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:02,640
Speaker 4: and Friday. Subscribe to our channel YouTube dot com slash

1235
01:02:02,840 --> 01:02:04,320
Speaker 4: at Behind the Bastards