Speaker 1: Welcome to Monster d C Sniper, a production of I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio and Tenderfoot TV. The views and opinions expressed
Speaker 1: in this podcast are solely those of the podcast author
Speaker 1: or individuals participating in the podcast, and do not represent
Speaker 1: those of I Heart Media, Tenderfoot TV, or their employees.
Speaker 1: This episode includes testimony and argument from trial transcripts read
Speaker 1: by voice actors. Portions of these transcripts are excerpted for
Speaker 1: the purposes of this podcast. Listener discretion is advised. We won,
Speaker 1: we won. That's Malvo's defense attorney Tom Walsh. I remember
Speaker 1: standing in court when that verdict came in, standing right
Speaker 1: at the side them, and that was it. That was it.
Speaker 1: We won. If you understood the case, it was basically
Speaker 1: just two outcomes. They win, they get death, we win,
Speaker 1: he gets life. And when they came back on December
Speaker 1: twenty three with life, that was it. Teenage sniper Lee
Speaker 1: mal Vou escaped the death penalty less than a month
Speaker 1: after his older part nor John Mohammed, was handed the
Speaker 1: ultimate punishment. Victims and their families were stunned when people
Speaker 1: heard the judge say life without parole. People screamed out,
Speaker 1: as if he was acquitted. You know I understood the
Speaker 1: emotion those people had because they thought justice would be
Speaker 1: the same penalty that Mohammed got. That boy, he's not
Speaker 1: going to change. He's not going to change his mind,
Speaker 1: he's not going to change his herd. Who's the point
Speaker 1: to have that guy in jail. He's a monster. I
Speaker 1: don't expect anything from him. I just expect for him
Speaker 1: not to have a good life, because he doesn't deserve
Speaker 1: a good life. Ultimately, the chest Peak jury found him
Speaker 1: guilty of capital murder and they gave him life. Chesapeake
Speaker 1: has never given anybody the death penalty. But that's the
Speaker 1: way it is. And I believe in the jury system.
Speaker 1: And if your neighbors think you shouldn't get death, and
Speaker 1: that's the way it goes. Personally, I think he should
Speaker 1: have he knew exactly what he was doing. Malvo sitting
Speaker 1: in Red Onion Prison. It's one of the nation's supermax is.
Speaker 1: It's a very stark facility. He's spending twenty three hours
Speaker 1: a day in a very small cell. He has no
Speaker 1: physical interaction with any other inmates, and barring some outcome
Speaker 1: from the resentencing, he will likely be there for the
Speaker 1: rest of his life. I was okay with life without parole.
Speaker 1: Now we're dealing with the situation where maybe someday he
Speaker 1: will walk the streets again. Having grandchildren, do I want
Speaker 1: to take the gamble that in their lifetime he will
Speaker 1: walk the streets and take the gamble that he's going
Speaker 1: to be fine and not revert back to something crazy.
Speaker 1: There is a ruthless person on the loose. What I
Speaker 1: nerves this community the most is the randomness of the murders,
Speaker 1: ordinary people doing ordinary things. They killed the people in
Speaker 1: one day and then went on the rampage for the
Speaker 1: next month. It is quite a mystery. The police say
Speaker 1: they have never had a crime quite like this. Be careful,
Speaker 1: these guys are using weapons that are gonna go right
Speaker 1: straight through our bulletproof vest. From My Heart Radio and
Speaker 1: Tenderfoot TV, this is Monster DC sniper Lee Boyd Malvo
Speaker 1: was sent to red Onion State Prison in the Western
Speaker 1: party of Virginia, where he would serve his life sentence.
Speaker 1: Red Onion is one of the strictest super max prisons
Speaker 1: in the country. After he was incarcerated, he started talking
Speaker 1: to people about what had happened, and the details he
Speaker 1: provided changed the case in ways that no one anticipated.
Speaker 1: One of the people he talked to was Anthony Meoli,
Speaker 1: the criminologist who helped Malvo write his autobiography. What we
Speaker 1: know is the d C Snipers is really the United
Speaker 1: States Snipers. They shot people from Washington to Arizona to
Speaker 1: allegedly Florida, South Carolina, North Carolina. So there's a lot
Speaker 1: of people shot in many, many different states, according to
Speaker 1: Lee's own words, Investigators had continued to look into other
Speaker 1: crimes that they thought might be connected to the pair.
Speaker 1: One crime they investigated was the death of Jerry Taylor.
Speaker 1: He'd been shot with a rifle while golfing in Tucson, Arizona,
Speaker 1: on March nineteo. His body had been found in the
Speaker 1: bushes with his wallet nearby on the ground, but strangely,
Speaker 1: his money and credit cards weren't missing. Investigators had learned
Speaker 1: Mohammed and Malvo were in the area at the time,
Speaker 1: visiting Mohammed's sister. This was the same trip where they
Speaker 1: stole a credit card from a Greyhound bus driver. Later
Speaker 1: they would ask that ten million dollars be deposited on
Speaker 1: that car. But Taylor hadn't been shot by a two
Speaker 1: to three rifle like the Bushmaster that Malvo and Mohammed
Speaker 1: had used in their DC attacks, but rather a three
Speaker 1: oh eight caliber rifle. Still, the shootings resembled the random
Speaker 1: killings of the DC sniper attacks, and the fact that
Speaker 1: Malvo and Mohammed were in the area when it happened
Speaker 1: seemed like two big of a coincidence. So now that
Speaker 1: Malvo appeared to be talking, investigators from the Tucson Police
Speaker 1: Department went to interview him. That's a detective him in
Speaker 1: his Tusson Police Department in going over our file. And
Speaker 1: we know that you were in Tucson in early March
Speaker 1: of two thousand two. Can you tell me how you
Speaker 1: and I believe it was John Mohammed got to Tucson.
Speaker 1: We got to Tussan by greyhound from Tacoma, Washington. Did
Speaker 1: he tell you when you got on the bus coming
Speaker 1: Tucson that this was a job and we're going to
Speaker 1: do how do you phrase it? I don't know what
Speaker 1: words you h We're gonna go to Tucson. Um, I
Speaker 1: want to see my sister and this we're here to do.
Speaker 1: Where did you do a job? Did he tell you
Speaker 1: how much money he was paid to do this job?
Speaker 1: You usually twenty five out Love to start, you brought
Speaker 1: your sniper gear from Washington State. How did you know
Speaker 1: he was a golfer? We had an address and he
Speaker 1: had some additional information in the end, Love, it's one
Speaker 1: one sheet of paper with writing back in front. Did
Speaker 1: you know anything about the guy? The only thing he
Speaker 1: showed me was the picture. I wasn't allowed to read anything. John,
Speaker 1: I ever tell you why this guy had to die?
Speaker 1: M hm. You have a job to do, yes, and
Speaker 1: we have an address, but we're going to We go
Speaker 1: out there in the morning. We walk in the area
Speaker 1: and look at what's in the area. There's the houses
Speaker 1: and there's a golf course at the back. We go
Speaker 1: out there and we're looking for the guy in the picture.
Speaker 1: I spot the man and what he does is after
Speaker 1: hitting the balls for a couple hours, he comes down
Speaker 1: the slope and picks up all the balls with the machine.
Speaker 1: How many days would you say you spent at the
Speaker 1: golf course hiding and watching this particularly, probably three three
Speaker 1: days in time the day that this guy is shot.
Speaker 1: Time we get out there in the morning, that even
Speaker 1: says you have to do this and said no, because
Speaker 1: I've never done this before. And he said, you're going
Speaker 1: out there and doing this. This is the first time
Speaker 1: you shot and kill someone, but it was the first
Speaker 1: time you shot is killed somebody with this rifle. Yes,
Speaker 1: that even as soon as we talked, I have to
Speaker 1: go back out there in the last bus and stay
Speaker 1: out there interred in the night. Where do you ever
Speaker 1: rifle the rifles? And down in the case and in
Speaker 1: the green Duffle bag that goes over back back. So
Speaker 1: you have the Douffel bag on the bus, one of
Speaker 1: the rifles in the case inside the Douffel bags. Did
Speaker 1: you ever get questioned anybody ever looking at the bag?
Speaker 1: You wouldn't really question, you know, it's like a camper's bag.
Speaker 1: What kind of rifle was? Is a three? It nine
Speaker 1: inches was cut off the original bar so that it
Speaker 1: would fit easily with an event, and it was a
Speaker 1: temporary suppressing. Where did you get that weapon? The weapon
Speaker 1: was bought by Earl Dancy. So you get there the
Speaker 1: night before, Yes, because I know he picks golf balls.
Speaker 1: I put the golf balls on the slope, so you're
Speaker 1: setting the balls to draw him to the area where
Speaker 1: you want him to be. Once he sees those days
Speaker 1: basically baited he goes after. Malvo says that he wore
Speaker 1: camouflage clothes and hid under a tree, covering himself with
Speaker 1: a net and branches. He camped out all night so
Speaker 1: he'd be in position the next day when Jerry Taylor
Speaker 1: went golfing. All right, So when does the guy show up?
Speaker 1: Do you learn in one have you hit any balls
Speaker 1: prior to coming down to that area? That sloped area.
Speaker 1: The thing is where I was. I couldn't move to
Speaker 1: get up and see him, but I knew he was
Speaker 1: going to come down. And that's all I'm waiting on
Speaker 1: because he's the one that always does it. He doesn't
Speaker 1: last two days, comes down slope and picks up all
Speaker 1: the balls. All right, So you're you're there. Wait and
Speaker 1: if he goes down, why starts backing up balls. He
Speaker 1: came close to me. He walked by and picked up
Speaker 1: the first ball and then went around. I'm right here
Speaker 1: and he's right here. He's a little bit about me
Speaker 1: because I'm down in the ground. It's a traditional military
Speaker 1: sniper position, all right, just a rifle of the scope.
Speaker 1: So you had him in your sides. Yes, Then he
Speaker 1: came back, and what's going back up the slope? That's
Speaker 1: my new shot. He fell, lays down and there's no movement,
Speaker 1: and I started to back up. Then he got back
Speaker 1: up and started walking, and he starts going up the slope.
Speaker 1: He didn't die immediately, and I had to go out
Speaker 1: there and get him. And once I got him, like
Speaker 1: pulled him here. Uh So you went after him and
Speaker 1: you grabbed him and drag him down. Okay? Does he
Speaker 1: say anything to you? Yes? He said he was saying
Speaker 1: he was stepping. He was saying something. Do you remember
Speaker 1: what he said he was? It was it was basically groans,
Speaker 1: because it was like something filling up his mouth and
Speaker 1: something of scars. But you could tell he was trying
Speaker 1: to say something. Was he looking at you? He was striped? Yes? Okay,
Speaker 1: so you drag him into the bushes? Yes, grab drag
Speaker 1: him by the arms, legs, legs, legs. You take his wallet?
Speaker 1: I take the wallet. Look at the picture to drop
Speaker 1: the wallet. The bag was not far from there. It
Speaker 1: was like laying under a boulder. Pulled it out, put
Speaker 1: the women too pieces, closed it up, and then put
Speaker 1: it in the back. Go out to the bus stop,
Speaker 1: Get to the bus stop. What do you do? I
Speaker 1: get the bus stop, I sit beside him and and jittery,
Speaker 1: and he says, come there, no one knows he done anything.
Speaker 1: How old were you talking? Uh? Assenting? Now that this
Speaker 1: hall is is done, and you know, and you know
Speaker 1: you've been through a lot in the last couple of
Speaker 1: years with these proceedings, as are why are you talking
Speaker 1: to I'm talking to you because I'm sorry, sorry, there's
Speaker 1: something you want to say to the family or you
Speaker 1: can't bring it back. I'm sorry, Thank you very much.
Speaker 1: We're gonna go back to Tucson tomorrow morning and we're
Speaker 1: going to have to talk to family and we're going
Speaker 1: to have to tell the family that somebody that knew
Speaker 1: this man wanted him dead and this is going to
Speaker 1: be terrible news for that. According to the Arizona Daily
Speaker 1: Star newspaper, police had no doubt that Malvo killed Taylor,
Speaker 1: but Taylor's daughter, Cheryl Witz, said she couldn't imagine anyone
Speaker 1: wanting to hurt her father, and police never found evidence
Speaker 1: to support Malvo's claim that it was a hired killing.
Speaker 1: So was Malvo lying or did Mohammed's underworld dealings extend
Speaker 1: beyond smuggling people across borders? Was he working as a
Speaker 1: hitman as well, or maybe Mohammed lied to Malvo and
Speaker 1: this was part of how he groomed Malvo for the
Speaker 1: d C attacks. Anthony Meolie, the criminologist who helped publish
Speaker 1: Malvo's autobiography, says Malvo never mentioned any contract killings to him.
Speaker 1: The idea that this was a contract hit, to me
Speaker 1: is total hogwash. But Lee also referenced the fact that
Speaker 1: he shot thirty six people. Lee himself shot thirty six
Speaker 1: people and killed over twenty of them. He also said
Speaker 1: that John shot as many as seventy people. Now I
Speaker 1: don't know how true that is, but he said I
Speaker 1: wouldn't put it passed him that he shot that many
Speaker 1: people because he was always out doing bad things. Malvo
Speaker 1: told me only that during the time he started killing
Speaker 1: people with Mohammed, he believed deeply in the Nation of
Speaker 1: Islam based philosophy that Mohammed had been teaching him. Mohammed
Speaker 1: had him eating only a single small vegetarian meal a
Speaker 1: day and would give him sepenty two different vitamins and supplements.
Speaker 1: Malvo might have been even more of a true believer
Speaker 1: than Mohammed. Malvo says, shortly after Mohammed had him shoot
Speaker 1: Keenya Cook in Tacoma, he confronted Mohammed about inconsistencies he
Speaker 1: was seeing. Mohammed had been telling him that the white
Speaker 1: man was the devil, but he was dating a white woman.
Speaker 1: He isn't in a relationship with his white baby. I mean,
Speaker 1: you're talking all his didn't. I mean, I came on
Speaker 1: to get him, to get your children back. I mean,
Speaker 1: you can addy blow. Somebody worried out what's up? So
Speaker 1: a week or two after the first shooting, he came
Speaker 1: on a fift He was around at time, and I
Speaker 1: sat tighter and I had a fified back. I said, look,
Speaker 1: you called me out of here, and you said I
Speaker 1: need to get my children back. That's why I'm here.
Speaker 1: You can't talk. You know the white man is the devil,
Speaker 1: and you missed Lucas won't be either your kids or
Speaker 1: make your mind up. And make your mind up right
Speaker 1: now before I put two rounds. There's a order than
Speaker 1: the dashboards will take those quarters up. You will step
Speaker 1: out the truck, walk to the phone, make the call
Speaker 1: and say he's over. And that's the rep I need
Speaker 1: to hear. You had actually at that moment bought entirely
Speaker 1: into his plan, yes being but the plan US as
Speaker 1: far ago could certainly make money along the way, find
Speaker 1: the kids take and go to Canada, both flight school
Speaker 1: and do what you want to do around that would
Speaker 1: the layout it changed along the way. Malvo says Mohammed
Speaker 1: had put together a list of cities with people named
Speaker 1: Mildred Mohammed in them. He says they began traveling across
Speaker 1: the country searching for mohammed Sex wife and his kids.
Speaker 1: They first stopped at Los Angeles in February or March
Speaker 1: of two thousand two, where they shot a man. Details
Speaker 1: about this killing are spars and the victim has never
Speaker 1: been matched up with the alleged crime. Malvo says they
Speaker 1: went on to shoot and kill Jerry Taylor in Arizona
Speaker 1: in March. Then, Malvo said they continued east and a
Speaker 1: couple of months later, Mohammed shot another man at a
Speaker 1: golf course in Florida. Investigators connected this to the mysterious
Speaker 1: shooting of seventy six year old Albert Michael Sick. Michael
Speaker 1: Sick was shot while golfing in Clearwater, Florida, on May
Speaker 1: eighteenth of that year. Malvo also confessed to involvement in
Speaker 1: the May seven shooting a Billy Jean Dylan in Denton, Texas.
Speaker 1: Dylan was murdered while doing yardwork, but Malvo told me
Speaker 1: only that he and Mohammed committed so many crimes that
Speaker 1: they all started to blur together. I mean, didn't summer
Speaker 1: whole week, you know, ub or something We're gonna get pulled.
Speaker 1: It would be some violence. He got to the point
Speaker 1: where he said, I created a fucking monster. During this time,
Speaker 1: he got several nervous breakdown and each time he came
Speaker 1: out of old he did need to bloodlet would be
Speaker 1: greater and greater. His need for violence would be greater
Speaker 1: and greater. He would he would just escalate. He was
Speaker 1: bald train and I was on the train with him.
Speaker 1: I will attached. After the Denton, Texas murder, Malvo says
Speaker 1: he and Mohammed then traveled to a gun show in
Speaker 1: El Paso, Texas, where Malvo stole the twenty two revolver
Speaker 1: they would later use to shoot Paul Arufa. Then they
Speaker 1: went to Hammond, Louisiana, where they crossed paths with a
Speaker 1: man named John Gata. It was a normal day. I
Speaker 1: went to work and I went home, and I was
Speaker 1: going to return to work to catch up on some stuff.
Speaker 1: And I decided before I did that, thought I would
Speaker 1: stop at the mall time on Square and used to shopping.
Speaker 1: I did so, and I made a purchase, and then
Speaker 1: I came out and I went to drive away, and
Speaker 1: I noticed that I had a flat tire. I could
Speaker 1: have driven just a little short piece to a service
Speaker 1: station that's right in front of the mall, but I
Speaker 1: just parked my truck that night. It was dark, of course,
Speaker 1: you know you have a parking lot lighting. I was
Speaker 1: just assessing the situation and I was getting some tools out.
Speaker 1: There were two black men that walked right Bondy. They said,
Speaker 1: it looks like you have a flat tire, and the
Speaker 1: kind of laughed under the breath, and they asked me
Speaker 1: if the mall was open. Well, I knew it was closing,
Speaker 1: but just to buy myself more time, just you know,
Speaker 1: make sure they weren't up to something. I said it
Speaker 1: might be. I said, you could check something to that effect.
Speaker 1: I didn't see where they came from where they went
Speaker 1: and I went to the back of my vehicles because
Speaker 1: that's where you would retrieve the spare tire, and I
Speaker 1: saw a figure hunched over and running from the back
Speaker 1: of my vehicle to the front. And I'm like, okay, well,
Speaker 1: I'm not ready for this, and I said, I'll just
Speaker 1: go to the other side of the vehicle and say
Speaker 1: what do you want? So I went around to the
Speaker 1: passenger side of the vehicle, and when I did, Malvo
Speaker 1: met me face to face. He was about maybe six
Speaker 1: ft away. Before I had a moment to think about anything,
Speaker 1: I don't even know if I ever got out what
Speaker 1: do you want, he just raised the pistol and shot me.
Speaker 1: I thought he was aiming from my head, but the
Speaker 1: bullet struck me on the right side of my neck.
Speaker 1: I just remember falling to the ground. I just felt
Speaker 1: like the safest thing to do was just lay there
Speaker 1: for a few minutes. I don't remember feeling that they
Speaker 1: were like reaching in my pocket. I noticed my wallet
Speaker 1: was missing, without thinking that it might have a spinal
Speaker 1: injury or anything. I was going to walk to the
Speaker 1: service station and just call for help. Before I did,
Speaker 1: there were some people, like passers by, and so they
Speaker 1: came up and they said, Stain, you're bleeding, Are you okay?
Speaker 1: And I kind of looked at my shirt and it
Speaker 1: was you know, blood on my shirt and at that
Speaker 1: time I heard the ambulance siren. They took me to
Speaker 1: the hospital and they treated me. The doctor said that
Speaker 1: when he got the call, he said, well, this guy
Speaker 1: is going to come in either paralyzed or dead. The
Speaker 1: bullet had entered my neck. It traveled from the light
Speaker 1: side of my neck to the left side of my
Speaker 1: upper back, acrossing the final card without doing any damage.
Speaker 1: I felt luck. I could just went back to work
Speaker 1: that next day. I don't want missing work and my
Speaker 1: friends and know, at least take the weekend or a
Speaker 1: week or whatever, you know. When my vehicle was brought
Speaker 1: to the provider who was going to fix the tire,
Speaker 1: they noticed that the puncture on the tar was on
Speaker 1: the sidewalk. If you get a flat tire, it's on
Speaker 1: the treads, but in this case it was like the
Speaker 1: tar was purposely slashed. So I would you not be
Speaker 1: able to drop off? Malvo and Mohammed then traveled to
Speaker 1: Baton Rouge, Louisiana, Mohammed's hometown. Friends and relatives said it
Speaker 1: seemed like he was going out of his way to
Speaker 1: talk and visit with people he hadn't seen in years.
Speaker 1: He lied to people, telling them he was still married
Speaker 1: to Mildred, that he was doing well, and that he
Speaker 1: owned houses in Canada and the Caribbean. And it was
Speaker 1: here that Malvo says Mohammed first told him about his
Speaker 1: plan for the d C attacks. Mohammed had a plan
Speaker 1: that would have extended far beyond the horrors of October
Speaker 1: two thousand two if they hadn't been stopped. In two
Speaker 1: thousand six, Mohammed, who was already on death row in Virginia,
Speaker 1: was prosecuted in Montgomery County, Maryland, for the six murders
Speaker 1: that took place there. Malvo was prosecuted as well, but
Speaker 1: he pled guilty and agreed to testify against Mohammed and
Speaker 1: share new details about the case, including John's full plan.
Speaker 1: Here are excerpts from Mohammed's Maryland trial, with prosecutor Catherine
Speaker 1: Winfrey questioning Malva. Winfrey and Malvo's quotes are read by
Speaker 1: voice actors. Now, did you go back to Louisiana in
Speaker 1: mid July two? Yes, Now, when you were with him,
Speaker 1: what would the two of you do? We would visit
Speaker 1: people he was dealing with at the time. Did you
Speaker 1: feel like a member of the family. Yes? Did you
Speaker 1: come to love Mr Mohammed. Yes, did you tell him
Speaker 1: you loved him? Yes? And how about his feelings for you?
Speaker 1: Did he tell you that he loved you? Yes? Did
Speaker 1: you believe that? Yes? And did there come a time
Speaker 1: that Mr Mohammed told you he had learned where his
Speaker 1: children were. Yes. We were in Baton Rouge at his
Speaker 1: brother's place. We were across the street and a gully,
Speaker 1: sitting on a log. He told me that children are
Speaker 1: in Maryland, just outside d C. And he plained that
Speaker 1: we're not going to get the children. Not yet explained
Speaker 1: to me what was going to happen. After we left Louisiana.
Speaker 1: He said, we were going to go to the Washington,
Speaker 1: D C. Area, and we're going to terrorize these people.
Speaker 1: Every day. They're going to be six shots, six slangs
Speaker 1: a day for thirty days. And after thirty days, what
Speaker 1: was going to happen. Phase two was to create much
Speaker 1: more damage by using improvised explosives. We had ball bearings
Speaker 1: or nails. Usually. What I was told was we get schools,
Speaker 1: school buses, hospitals, children's hospitals. Everything is around children. Malvo
Speaker 1: later elaborated on Mohammed's plan when he spoke to me
Speaker 1: only from prison. We're got ruish. I think the July
Speaker 1: he played to me that we're going to go DC
Speaker 1: and we're going to carize the parts work and we're
Speaker 1: just going to go into that region and just were
Speaker 1: habit and shut it down because all these people care
Speaker 1: about it. There sucking money. And if you disturb that
Speaker 1: process and let people know that they're not stay eight
Speaker 1: were eight times this system is no longer visible. So
Speaker 1: when he explained it to me, I said, this man,
Speaker 1: we can robbing and doing work, doing what you're asking
Speaker 1: to do, and we made you know X amount of money,
Speaker 1: you have, the passports, you have, the contact, we know
Speaker 1: what the children are why and just kicked him and leaves.
Speaker 1: I mean that's that's the whole story. I mean what
Speaker 1: he's like, No, I don't get back to these mothers,
Speaker 1: focus the I don't kill Drew birds. You want to stop.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get children and we're gonna terrorize. They're going
Speaker 1: to know what they have done. In the Maryland trial,
Speaker 1: prosecutor Winfrey asked Melvo about what happened next. What did
Speaker 1: you do after he told you about this plan to terrorize?
Speaker 1: He was gone during the day after he told this
Speaker 1: to me. I sat in the bathroom played Russian Roulette
Speaker 1: for several hours with the twenty two revolver. HI loaded
Speaker 1: one round, spun, put it to my head, fire, fire, fire,
Speaker 1: until I reached the fourth round. And then I realized
Speaker 1: this was the round and I just I just broke down.
Speaker 1: I couldn't do it now. From Baton Rouge, Louisiana. Did
Speaker 1: you return to Cooma, Washington? Yes? And while you were there,
Speaker 1: did you steal a two to three Bushmaster high powered rifle? Yes?
Speaker 1: From Bull's Eye it's a gun shop. Now. Did there
Speaker 1: come a time in late August of two two that
Speaker 1: you and John Allan Mohammed left to come to Washington,
Speaker 1: d C. Yes. We came to Clinton, Maryland first to
Speaker 1: scoop out where his wife and children was. At First
Speaker 1: he sent me to go knock on the door to
Speaker 1: see if it's his wife. I went not she was
Speaker 1: sitting in the living room watching television. I recognized her
Speaker 1: face based on pictures that I've seen earlier. I returned
Speaker 1: and told Mohammed, yes, that's her residence. Then there's an
Speaker 1: area with the fence directly across the street from there.
Speaker 1: I'd watch when she left, Who came there? What did
Speaker 1: the children do? When did they leave? Basically surveillance and
Speaker 1: did Mr Mohammed take his children during that time? No,
Speaker 1: he said not yet, not yet. Mr Mohammed had several
Speaker 1: looks when he said not yet. A company with that
Speaker 1: look it meant it's final. Didn't ask him any more questions.
Speaker 1: Whenever he spoke about his wife. What were the emotions
Speaker 1: that he displayed. You could tell he was uncomfortable with
Speaker 1: her having his children. He was angry. Did Mr Mohammed
Speaker 1: ever discuss September eleven with you? Yes, he said, bloodshed
Speaker 1: begets bloodshed. It's a process, and America begun this Osama
Speaker 1: bin Laden didn't develop in a vacuum. They trained him,
Speaker 1: They taught him to fight the Soviets, and it came home.
Speaker 1: He hated this country. He hates this country. Did he
Speaker 1: tell you why he hates the country? Slavery, the hypocrisy,
Speaker 1: their foreign policy, just the entirety of the nation. Malvo
Speaker 1: said that after confirming that Mildred and the kids were
Speaker 1: living in Clinton, Maryland, Mohammed had him rob Paul Arufa
Speaker 1: outside his restaurant, and then with Larufa's money, they went
Speaker 1: to New Jersey to buy the blue Capris Malvo says.
Speaker 1: They then drove to the southeast so they could modify
Speaker 1: and test out the car outside of the d C area.
Speaker 1: What was the reason you stopped Montgomery, Alabama? The modifications
Speaker 1: were fully made. He wanted to test them. We found
Speaker 1: an ABC liquor store. There's a car wash across the street.
Speaker 1: I sat there pretended to read the armor like gun magazine.
Speaker 1: I had two jobs to see when it's all over,
Speaker 1: if I could tell where the shot was coming from.
Speaker 1: And my main goal was to be the pickup man.
Speaker 1: I was supposed to run, pick up the bag, and
Speaker 1: then head directly to the pickup spot. Now what happened
Speaker 1: After Mr Mohammed fired the two shots. I went to
Speaker 1: the front of the ABC. The two women were laying
Speaker 1: on the ground. The black lady was on her back
Speaker 1: and there was blood around her head them. The white
Speaker 1: lady was laying there was blood on the concrete around
Speaker 1: her body. Both of them were not moving. I was
Speaker 1: frantically looking for the bag because I know I only
Speaker 1: have so much time. I grabbed something I can't remember exactly.
Speaker 1: Once I grabbed it, I heard freeze and I took
Speaker 1: off the officer was running behind me. I jumped the
Speaker 1: fence and jumped another fence, then went into the car
Speaker 1: and then went directly on the highway and left. Now
Speaker 1: at some point, did you head back north? Yes, we
Speaker 1: drove all the way up to Montgomery County to begin
Speaker 1: the shootings. Why this area? Why Montgomery County? He said
Speaker 1: it was middle class, well off, mostly whites, that it
Speaker 1: was a perfect area to terrorize. And who would choose
Speaker 1: which actual shooting you do and which one Mr Mohammed
Speaker 1: would do? Mr Mohammed would make the choice. May I
Speaker 1: direct your attention to Wednesday, October two of two thousand two,
Speaker 1: about six o'clock in the evening. Did you and Mr
Speaker 1: Mohammed go to the Shoppers food warehouse? Yes, we went
Speaker 1: to the Y m c A on Wednesday morning. Then
Speaker 1: that evening we uh, that's when everything began. That's when
Speaker 1: he said, today's going to be the first shot. Who
Speaker 1: was driving the car he would drive in areas like
Speaker 1: this because I did not have a license. And then
Speaker 1: what happened After he parked the car, he stepped over
Speaker 1: his driver's seat, went into the back and entered the trunk.
Speaker 1: What was your role? You're sitting in the front seat.
Speaker 1: What's your job? Make sure there's no one walking by
Speaker 1: on the sidewalk and there are no car stopped. And
Speaker 1: did you see his target? Mr? Malvo? An elderly white
Speaker 1: male in a brown suit. And once I told him
Speaker 1: he had to go, the shot was taken. What happened
Speaker 1: after Mr Mohammed shot Mr Martin? He fell. Mr Mohammed
Speaker 1: came up. I went into the back disassembled the weapon.
Speaker 1: Do you remember where you went after Mr Mohammed shot
Speaker 1: Mr Martin? No, was their plan for the next day, Yes,
Speaker 1: we're supposed to get at least five shootings, possibly six.
Speaker 1: Malvo later told me only that things didn't go exactly
Speaker 1: as planned, or at least things deviated from the plan
Speaker 1: that Mohammed had been telling Malvo. Suddenly their plan went
Speaker 1: from shooting five Caucasions to now basically shooting five of
Speaker 1: any human being. Obviously, it's easier to shoot people of
Speaker 1: multiple cultures because there's more people around. It would also
Speaker 1: if only whites were being shot, it might have been
Speaker 1: easier to develop a profile that our shooters are African American.
Speaker 1: Here's more of Meoli's interview with Malvo. Did you think
Speaker 1: said John was racist towards whites at all? God, yeah, absolutely,
Speaker 1: I mean in nation plot, the white Men of the
Speaker 1: del So if he was preaching racist idealism and the
Speaker 1: hatred of whites, why would other races be targeted? During
Speaker 1: the belt Waite shootings. You've seen the major there is
Speaker 1: a scene in which Market is training me in their
Speaker 1: walk in the country because everyone departed the system. So
Speaker 1: as far as Mom was concerned, if you participate in
Speaker 1: the system, you are in any and the system is
Speaker 1: that the white economic system, meant the whites have created
Speaker 1: as a system of control. And if convinced every other
Speaker 1: nation or people on the planet that this is the
Speaker 1: system to adopted, is the way to go. And after
Speaker 1: the very first day of shooting in the belt Waite
Speaker 1: sniper shootings as we know them, Lee realized emotionally he
Speaker 1: could not do this. It was too much for him
Speaker 1: to do, which is why after the first day there's
Speaker 1: a bit of a drop off. So the plan went
Speaker 1: off the rails. Even from day one, we didn't realize
Speaker 1: it was going off the rails, but according to Lee,
Speaker 1: it was and me only says that the latter phases
Speaker 1: of the plan were even more sadistic. Than what Malvo
Speaker 1: described in the Maryland Quadroom. Phase two was even worse.
Speaker 1: The original Phase two was it was supposed to take
Speaker 1: place in Baltimore, Maryland, and they were going to shoot
Speaker 1: a pregnant woman. The reason why that shooting was going
Speaker 1: to be so horrific was the nation would say, wow,
Speaker 1: these people do not care at all. The idea was
Speaker 1: that when they started to investigate the case, they were
Speaker 1: going to kill one of the Baltimore police officers. He'ven
Speaker 1: happy to walk up to adopted after the question, shot
Speaker 1: it to it and the head off and leave it
Speaker 1: on the seat. That's gonna shot outrage the mayor, the governor,
Speaker 1: A lot of people are going to come on intac
Speaker 1: police department. We were did there there off, He's going
Speaker 1: to take exprovide which he had, which he and he
Speaker 1: was like a label. They were going to use improvised
Speaker 1: explosive devices at the funeral and while they were going off,
Speaker 1: they would wait a few minutes and then use them
Speaker 1: again when first responders arrived. There was going to be
Speaker 1: the immediate policing entire gathering, basically lifting that police department.
Speaker 1: And then there were the secondary devices before the ambibaces
Speaker 1: and fire trucks and everybody who respond that. Then, as
Speaker 1: if that wasn't bad enough, when they Phase three began,
Speaker 1: they would extort money from the government. They were going
Speaker 1: to say, you can't stop us from doing this, and
Speaker 1: we want ten million dollars. The third phases to disappear
Speaker 1: and take children like myself and trained them and then
Speaker 1: release them the door and reprocate the process in different ways.
Speaker 1: But Malvo told me only the plan quickly fell apart
Speaker 1: because Malvo couldn't emotionally handle what Mohammed was asking him
Speaker 1: to do. Lee lined up the pregnant woman, but he
Speaker 1: decided he couldn't shoot her. So really phase one in
Speaker 1: phase two never happened simply because Lee could not do it.
Speaker 1: His conscience would not allow him to do it. So
Speaker 1: if John tried to develop a killer who had no
Speaker 1: moral compunctions whatsoever, he was unable to do it. Lee
Speaker 1: for some reason, drew the line at killing a pregnant woman.
Speaker 1: He was willing to shoot a thirteen year old child
Speaker 1: going to school, but he was not willing to kill
Speaker 1: a pregnant woman. And the only doesn't buy that. The
Speaker 1: shootings were strongly motivated by the Nation of Islam. Ideology.
Speaker 1: Me only thinks Mohammed and Malbo were just angry and
Speaker 1: escalating their murder spree. Were the Beltway sniper shootings, this
Speaker 1: alleged brainwashing job that needed to get done in order
Speaker 1: to rid the system of whites when none of that
Speaker 1: panned out? Or was it a case where a man
Speaker 1: who was angry and spiraling out of control emotionally, along
Speaker 1: with a self hating, angry young man, started shooting random
Speaker 1: targets for their own personal satisfaction. Nothing went along with
Speaker 1: the plan, nothing went along with the phases, and nothing
Speaker 1: seemed to go along with the belief system. So that's
Speaker 1: why I have trouble believing in this whole indoctrination because
Speaker 1: the killings don't jive with that story. It doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1: In my opinion, they were unraveling. We often see this
Speaker 1: in whether it's serial shooters or spree shooters or even
Speaker 1: serial killers. When killers have a compulsion to kill, eventually
Speaker 1: they start making mistakes because their compulsion over rides not
Speaker 1: only common sense, but you know, their criminal intellect. As
Speaker 1: marty as they were when they began their plan, they
Speaker 1: start making mistakes, They start leaving clues. In this case,
Speaker 1: they even start leaving tarot cards. You know, handwriting is traceable,
Speaker 1: they leave voices. Eventually Malvo's fingerprint is tracked, so eventually
Speaker 1: things do unravel. But that's usually what we see in
Speaker 1: these cases is the killers start to get sloppy and
Speaker 1: they start to get emotionally worn. And these are human
Speaker 1: beings taking lies. If people think that it's not an
Speaker 1: emotional toll to do that, they're mistaken. Something that a
Speaker 1: lot of serial killers have told me that there's only
Speaker 1: so much soul that they have, and eventually it's gone
Speaker 1: and they start making mistakes. And here this was a
Speaker 1: physical one. Lee fell asleep on the watch when you
Speaker 1: should have been wake. If they had been listening to
Speaker 1: the radio like they should have been, like he was,
Speaker 1: he would have known that the ap B had been
Speaker 1: out for the license plate and they would have changed
Speaker 1: plates and never gotten at least not gotten caught that night.
Speaker 1: It's my professional opinion that by themselves they would not
Speaker 1: have committed these crimes. But together they made for a
Speaker 1: perfect duo. We've seen this before many times, where by
Speaker 1: themselves they both have animosity, they both have maybe some
Speaker 1: tendencies towards extreme violence. One of them may or may
Speaker 1: not possess some type of mental disorder. We see that
Speaker 1: time and time again. Body and Clyde are perfect example
Speaker 1: of this. Investigators learned more about Mohammed and Malbo's relationship
Speaker 1: at Mohammed's trial in Maryland in two thousand six. After
Speaker 1: being questioned by prosecutors, Malvo was cross examined by the
Speaker 1: defense and Mohammed was defending himself, so the pair came
Speaker 1: face to face for the first time since they were arrested.
Speaker 1: This would also be the last time they interacted. Mohammed
Speaker 1: began by questioning Malbo about the period when he first
Speaker 1: ribed in Washington State. Here are excerpts read by voice actors.
Speaker 1: Can you tell us who Mary Maurezes. She's a white
Speaker 1: lady who was your girlfriend at the time. Can you
Speaker 1: tell us about Alan Archa, Mr Archer runs the shelter.
Speaker 1: He's a very kind, compassionate guy. Okay, do you remember me,
Speaker 1: you and Don Holland sitting down at his table and
Speaker 1: his wonderful wife could con dinner. Yes, okay, So the
Speaker 1: first four people that you met pertained to my life
Speaker 1: in the state of Washington was white. Yes, you mentioned
Speaker 1: I called a white man the devil that is true.
Speaker 1: This is true. And how close was me and Mary?
Speaker 1: You were close? Mr Malville, you mentioned that you was indoctrinated.
Speaker 1: Did not the experts in your child state that Marville
Speaker 1: was indoctrinated by Mohammed? Yes? Let me ask you something.
Speaker 1: Do you know what indoctrination is? Okay? What is it?
Speaker 1: Indoctrination is a process under which the person who came
Speaker 1: under influence is brought to do things he wouldn't have
Speaker 1: done on his own. So a person, according to your definition,
Speaker 1: a person can be indoctrinated to do what is right.
Speaker 1: Isn't that correct? Yes, I'm sorry I didn't hear you. Yes,
Speaker 1: he answer, You're honest. She can't tell me what I
Speaker 1: heard with my own ears. Is it your testimony that
Speaker 1: one of the reasons why you were attracted to John
Speaker 1: Allen Mohammed was because the way I treated the children.
Speaker 1: What's the way that you wanted to be treated? Yes? Okay?
Speaker 1: And then did I not treat you that way for
Speaker 1: a period of time? Yes, But for the period of
Speaker 1: time you were talking about pertaining to these crimes, did
Speaker 1: I not treat you that way? Yes? Okay? And why
Speaker 1: did John Selena into Labor call you their brother. Can
Speaker 1: you answer that for me? You sat them down and
Speaker 1: introduced me as part of the family. Do you remember
Speaker 1: the time happening in Antigua that Indrea, my girlfriend, almost drowned. Yes.
Speaker 1: You were off the island and before I left? Who
Speaker 1: did I give the responsibility of those children who I
Speaker 1: hold dead and near to my heart? Me? Correct? And
Speaker 1: something happened when I was gone. A gentleman almost drowned.
Speaker 1: Is that correct? Yes? And Andrea went into the water
Speaker 1: trying to save him. Is that correct? Yes? She almost drowned. Yes.
Speaker 1: And Selena called for her big brother, who was her
Speaker 1: big brother me, and when her big brother came, her
Speaker 1: big brother pulled Andrea out of the water, didn't he. Yes?
Speaker 1: And then Andrea told you something that you didn't know
Speaker 1: at the time. My son, little John, was in that water,
Speaker 1: and you went back and got him, didn't you? Yes? Why? Why?
Speaker 1: Because I love him? Isn't it true if you wasn't there,
Speaker 1: that boy would have lost his life? Yes? Okay, So
Speaker 1: what I asked you to do was to take care
Speaker 1: of my family. Did I indoctrinate you then? No. Mohammed's
Speaker 1: been much of his cross examination trying to twist Melvo's
Speaker 1: words to cast doubt on his testimony. At times, it
Speaker 1: felt like he was giving the rest of the world
Speaker 1: a glimpse about He might have bullied young Lee Boyd
Speaker 1: Malvo into submission with his words, but now four years later,
Speaker 1: one year old Lee Boyd Malvo was better equipped to
Speaker 1: fight back. You stated that you went into the Bulls
Speaker 1: eight store. Yes, okay, when you went into the store,
Speaker 1: was it people in the store? Oh? Yes? I noticed
Speaker 1: you said that quick. Was there a reason why you
Speaker 1: responded so fast that objection. Was there a person at
Speaker 1: the front door, cashier or something like that, yes? And
Speaker 1: was there other people, customers everywhere else in the store. Yes?
Speaker 1: And you had a case, a gun case. Okay? How
Speaker 1: big was it? It was big enough for the weapon
Speaker 1: to fit in it? Okay. Now take us through exactly
Speaker 1: what you did. I came in and according to the plan,
Speaker 1: once both the security guards were distracted, I picked up
Speaker 1: the weapon, break it down. The case is already open,
Speaker 1: put it in, close it and walk out. You mentioned
Speaker 1: earlier that the case was long enough to contain the weapon.
Speaker 1: Is that correct? Yes? And then you also stated that
Speaker 1: you broke the weapon down to fit into a case.
Speaker 1: Can you tell us why it was on a bipod.
Speaker 1: I had to break the bipod down to put it
Speaker 1: in there, and then you walked out the door. Yes, okay,
Speaker 1: let me ask you something. Do you have an invisible suit? On? Objection,
Speaker 1: let's go to the bus stuff. Do you remember stating
Speaker 1: that we also went to Hawaii? I said that? And
Speaker 1: how long did it take for us to get to
Speaker 1: Hawaii on the bus? That was a lie? That was
Speaker 1: a lie. Okay. You also stay we went to Alaska's
Speaker 1: that correct? Yes, how long did it take for us
Speaker 1: to get to Alaska on the bus? That was a lie?
Speaker 1: That was allowed to okay? Uh. You also stated that
Speaker 1: we went to main correct, I remember Alaska and Hawaii.
Speaker 1: Do you remember Sam Walker asking you where did you
Speaker 1: learn how to shoot? And you said Alaska, Main in Hawaii.
Speaker 1: I said a lot of things I can't recall. I
Speaker 1: can't recall details of my statements. So you say a
Speaker 1: lot of things in your statements, just like you said
Speaker 1: a lot in the courtroom right now? Objection, That wasn't true. Objection.
Speaker 1: After Mohammed finished his cross examination, prosecutors were given another
Speaker 1: chance to follow up with malvo. I want to specifically
Speaker 1: ask you about some of the questions that Mr Mohammed
Speaker 1: asked you. He asked you some questions about Mary Marez,
Speaker 1: the woman that he had a relationship with. Yes, how
Speaker 1: did he make you feel about white people at that
Speaker 1: point in time? Hate you still feel that way now? No?
Speaker 1: Mr Mohammed asked you a lot of questions, Mr Malvo
Speaker 1: about whether you saw a difference in the way he
Speaker 1: treated you and his own sons. What was the difference
Speaker 1: that you perceived in the way John Alan Mohammed treated
Speaker 1: his biological sons and the way he treated you, Mr Malvo,
Speaker 1: Mr Mohammed did not use any of his children to
Speaker 1: murder other people. When you talk to detectives in Fairfax
Speaker 1: prior to the trial, you hadn't heard the testimony of
Speaker 1: the witnesses. So where did you get the information? I
Speaker 1: was there, he was there, and I knew what we
Speaker 1: both did. That's all the questions I have, your honor.
Speaker 1: Mohammed was found guilty again and was sentenced to life
Speaker 1: without parole. He continued to fight against his Virginia death
Speaker 1: penalty sentences, but he soon ran out of appeals. His
Speaker 1: execution was set for November two thousand nine. Here's Paul Larufa,
Speaker 1: the survivor shot outside his restaurant in Clinton, Maryland. I
Speaker 1: didn't want to go to his execution, and I wrote
Speaker 1: a memo which basically said, I I understand you folks
Speaker 1: being there. I understand your need to be there. I
Speaker 1: don't have a need to see him die, and I
Speaker 1: don't want him to take another day out of my life.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry at any death, but I think if anybody
Speaker 1: deserved the death penalty, it was him. Here's Cheryl Witz,
Speaker 1: the daughter of Jerry Taylor, who Melvo confessed to shooting
Speaker 1: on the golf course in Arizona. Wits was interviewed right
Speaker 1: before Mohammed's execution. Anybody that can do the things that
Speaker 1: he did, brain watched a child and killing all the
Speaker 1: people that he did, do all this to all the victims,
Speaker 1: the families, his own family. He's an animal, He's a monster.
Speaker 1: What was your view of the death penalty prior to
Speaker 1: this tragedy. Well, I really wasn't for the death penalty
Speaker 1: because I just didn't believe, you know, it's going to
Speaker 1: bring the the victim back. But after he killed my father,
Speaker 1: I knew that if he got the death penalty, I
Speaker 1: would be sitting in this chair and watching the execution.
Speaker 1: I just I have to witness that. I need to
Speaker 1: witness that. In Virginia, the execution room, or death chamber
Speaker 1: as it's also known, contains a cross shaped bed with
Speaker 1: arms made to facilitate injections. Two wolves of the room
Speaker 1: have mirrors, one way mirrors, behind which are rooms full
Speaker 1: of spectators, one for victims and their families, another for lawyers, press,
Speaker 1: and Mohammed's family. Mohammed's ex wife, Mildred, says her children
Speaker 1: to see Mohammed before the execution. They said, Mom, you know,
Speaker 1: we really want to talk to that. So I called
Speaker 1: the warden. The warden said I would need to put
Speaker 1: their names on the docket and that John would have
Speaker 1: to agree to see them. He said, but Ms Mohammed,
Speaker 1: your children are under eighteen, he said, So that means
Speaker 1: you have to come with them. Oh oh no, sir, mmmmm.
Speaker 1: I will find somebody else to bring them, but I
Speaker 1: am not going in there. But John would not put
Speaker 1: their names on the docket. So we get to the
Speaker 1: day of the execution and the media is reporting all
Speaker 1: of his visitors, one of his sons and some other
Speaker 1: family members. So my son. So while all of them
Speaker 1: are there and we're not their mom, what's up with that? Said,
Speaker 1: I am not going to make excuses for your dad.
Speaker 1: It's his choice. So his attorney said, I'm gonna call
Speaker 1: you before he goes into the chamber. Make sure that
Speaker 1: your children are right there so he can talk to him. So,
Speaker 1: as we're watching TV, I see the gentleman coming to
Speaker 1: the microphone. I say, yeah, this is not going to
Speaker 1: be good. At John Mohammed was walked into the death chamber.
Speaker 1: He kind of staggered in. He was in a blue shirt,
Speaker 1: blue Denham jeans. He's kind of being held up by
Speaker 1: corrections officers. He looked around, mostly to the floor. He's
Speaker 1: very clean cut. They strapped him in by his legs first,
Speaker 1: then his waist, then his arms. Then the blue curtain
Speaker 1: was shut. The department corrections officials tell us the blue
Speaker 1: curtain was shut so most of people in the back
Speaker 1: the administering the execution can they can protect their identity.
Speaker 1: At nine oh six, they pulled the curtain back. You
Speaker 1: can see Mohammed strapped there. They asked him right after that,
Speaker 1: Mr Hammed, do you have me last words? He didn't
Speaker 1: say anything. At nine oh seven. You can see him
Speaker 1: twitching a lot. You can see his and blinking a lot,
Speaker 1: and you can see his breathing increase. At nine oh eight,
Speaker 1: he sat there. He was there, motionless. At nine eleven pm,
Speaker 1: Mohammed was pronounced dead. I went to the execution. This
Speaker 1: is Nelson Rivera, whose wife Lorie and Louis Rivera was
Speaker 1: shot and killed on October third, two two. You know,
Speaker 1: with the pain and all the anger there, I have
Speaker 1: that that was going to release me. I was feeling
Speaker 1: good at that moment. But you know, just to see him,
Speaker 1: He's attitude to not say anything to the families. That
Speaker 1: guy was, it was a monster. You know, he didn't
Speaker 1: deserve to be here. It was too easy for him.
Speaker 1: The just put that injection to him. That was too
Speaker 1: easy for what he did to all the victims. He
Speaker 1: didn't give them an opportunity, you know, to be with
Speaker 1: their families, to to enjoy their kids. The gentleman coming
Speaker 1: to the microphone said, John Mohammed has expired. Nine eleven
Speaker 1: and my children went three different directions For all of
Speaker 1: Mohammed's claims that he loved his children, the children that
Speaker 1: he told Lee he was desperate to see again. Mohammed
Speaker 1: didn't speak to his children when he had the opportunity.
Speaker 1: My son went by himself and I said, honey, are
Speaker 1: you okay? Said I'm good, Ma, I'm good. So then
Speaker 1: I went to lib She was on the floor screaming,
Speaker 1: crying uncontrollably. I picked her up, created her go over
Speaker 1: to Selena. She's whimpering on the sofa. I said, honey,
Speaker 1: you're okay. No, Mommy, I'm not okay. I said, okay,
Speaker 1: tell me what's going on. Do you understand that daddy
Speaker 1: was gonna kill you? Yep? I understand that completely. He
Speaker 1: didn't love his mom, he didn't love us. If he
Speaker 1: was gonna kill you, I hate him. I say, no,
Speaker 1: you don't. You don't hate him. Don't tell me how
Speaker 1: I feel. I said, okay, it's going now. You gotta
Speaker 1: let it go. It's gonna kill you. Gotta let it go.
Speaker 1: And she looked up at me, and I knew what
Speaker 1: she was looking for. She was looking for some type
Speaker 1: of emotion that I had. Because her dad had just
Speaker 1: been executed, I had absolutely nothing. When he said to me,
Speaker 1: you have become my enemy, and as my enemy, I
Speaker 1: will kill you. I severed every emotional tie to him,
Speaker 1: to me, he was a stranger being executed. Why would
Speaker 1: Mohammed put his own children through the terror of the
Speaker 1: d C attacks. Why did he go to Prince George's county, Maryland,
Speaker 1: the county where they lived, to shoot aboard the same
Speaker 1: age as his son John. Some suggest that Mohammed didn't
Speaker 1: just want to kill Mildred, he wanted to terrorize her,
Speaker 1: and what happened to his children was just collateral damage.
Speaker 1: After all, Mohammed's need for violence seemed to override the
Speaker 1: love he claimed to feel for Malvo as well. Mohammed
Speaker 1: told Malvo that he loved him, but then let Malvo
Speaker 1: fall on the sword after they were arrested. Criminologist Anthony
Speaker 1: Meoli says Lee reflected on this years later. The interesting
Speaker 1: thing about the shootings, and this is really somewhat fascinating.
Speaker 1: All the shots that were taken outside of the car,
Speaker 1: we're done by Lee. So John purposely put Lee in
Speaker 1: the view of the public when they already had a
Speaker 1: sniper roost inside the caprice set up. All the shots
Speaker 1: taken inside the car were done by John when he
Speaker 1: was fully covered and not able to be identified. If
Speaker 1: anything was to be done where there was a chance
Speaker 1: of getting caught or risk of getting shot at in
Speaker 1: the process, because it has happened several times, which robs
Speaker 1: the one. They were armed and I got shot at
Speaker 1: and I had to kill them in the process. He
Speaker 1: was nowhere to be found. He was somewhere hiding in
Speaker 1: the DC shooting. There was anything to be done where
Speaker 1: there was a major risk. If he was so caring
Speaker 1: about his son, so to say, why put Lee out
Speaker 1: in a position where he was at such a risk.
Speaker 1: You know, the calls to the police are Lee void
Speaker 1: Malvo's voice. So it's very interesting that John almost purposely
Speaker 1: put Lee as the shoe and almost could have made
Speaker 1: a case for himself saying, well, this guy did all
Speaker 1: the shootings. It wasn't me. Here's his voice on tape.
Speaker 1: Malvo's lawyers also felt that Mohammed may have just been
Speaker 1: using Malvo for the crimes. Lee was under this misbelief
Speaker 1: that they're going to have this utopia, and John Mohammed
Speaker 1: was saying, we're going to get the government to pay
Speaker 1: for it. I mean, what person would rationally think that's
Speaker 1: going to happen. But a kid who's indoctrinated, that's following
Speaker 1: this leader believes it. I don't know what was gonna
Speaker 1: happen in League after he got his kids back. I
Speaker 1: don't know, because Lee would then eventually realize there wasn't
Speaker 1: this ten million dollars from the government that's going to
Speaker 1: pay for this utopia. Maybe John Mohammed was going to
Speaker 1: kill Lee with Mohammed God, all we have now is
Speaker 1: Malvo story. When we began this season, a Supreme Court
Speaker 1: case was set to decide whether Malvo would be eligible
Speaker 1: for parole, but the question of whether Malvo deserves to
Speaker 1: be in prison has gone from the theoretical to the
Speaker 1: concrete due to recent developments that will discuss next episode
Speaker 1: Lee Boyd Malvo could one day walk the streets again.
Speaker 1: Malvo will be eligible for parole as early as two
Speaker 1: next time on Monster d C Sniper. Obviously, our goal
Speaker 1: is to do the best we can for him, and
Speaker 1: you know what he wants. He wants to be out
Speaker 1: and be able to live his life. I had dreams
Speaker 1: at one point, I wanted to do great things. Lawyers
Speaker 1: would argue that absent Mohammed, he wouldn't have committed these
Speaker 1: crimes at all, and that what good is it to
Speaker 1: warehouse him in a super max facility for the next
Speaker 1: sixty years. We end up always looking at these fantastic
Speaker 1: cases like Malvo. That's not how most of these cases
Speaker 1: go down. Most of these cases are a heavy trigger finger,
Speaker 1: an armed robbery gone bad, stupid stupid behavior that track
Speaker 1: agically results in a stupid, stupid outcome. I mean, you
Speaker 1: could re sentence him all you want, it doesn't take
Speaker 1: away from the fact that eight people at least will
Speaker 1: never be brought back. At the time, I was thinking, well,
Speaker 1: he should be lack at forever and ever. Um Now
Speaker 1: I'd like to kind of see whether or not he's
Speaker 1: really changed. Monster DC Sniper is a fifteen episode podcast
Speaker 1: hosted by Tony Harris and produced by iHeart Radio and
Speaker 1: Tenderfoot TV. Matt Frederick and Alex Williams are executive producers
Speaker 1: on behalf of I Heart Radio, alongside producers Trevor Young,
Speaker 1: Ben Kiebrick, and Josh Thayne Payne. Lindsay and Donald Albright
Speaker 1: are executive producers on behalf of Tenderfoot TV alongside producers
Speaker 1: Meredith Steadman and Christina Dana. Original music is by Makeup
Speaker 1: and Vanity Set. If you haven't already be sure to
Speaker 1: check out the first two seasons, Atlanta Monster and Monster
Speaker 1: the Zodiac Killer. If you have questions or comments, email
Speaker 1: us at monster at iHeartMedia dot com, or you can
Speaker 1: call us at one eight three three eight five six
Speaker 1: six six seven. Thanks for listening.