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Speaker 1: Welcome to Monster d C Sniper, a production of I

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio and Tenderfoot TV. The views and opinions expressed

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Speaker 1: in this podcast are solely those of the podcast author

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Speaker 1: or individuals participating in the podcast, and do not represent

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Speaker 1: those of I Heart Media, Tenderfoot TV, or their employees.

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Speaker 1: This episode includes testimony and argument from trial transcripts read

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Speaker 1: by voice actors. Portions of these transcripts are excerpted for

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Speaker 1: the purposes of this podcast. Listener discretion is advised. We won,

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Speaker 1: we won. That's Malvo's defense attorney Tom Walsh. I remember

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Speaker 1: standing in court when that verdict came in, standing right

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Speaker 1: at the side them, and that was it. That was it.

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Speaker 1: We won. If you understood the case, it was basically

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Speaker 1: just two outcomes. They win, they get death, we win,

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Speaker 1: he gets life. And when they came back on December

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Speaker 1: twenty three with life, that was it. Teenage sniper Lee

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Speaker 1: mal Vou escaped the death penalty less than a month

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Speaker 1: after his older part nor John Mohammed, was handed the

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Speaker 1: ultimate punishment. Victims and their families were stunned when people

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Speaker 1: heard the judge say life without parole. People screamed out,

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Speaker 1: as if he was acquitted. You know I understood the

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Speaker 1: emotion those people had because they thought justice would be

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Speaker 1: the same penalty that Mohammed got. That boy, he's not

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Speaker 1: going to change. He's not going to change his mind,

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Speaker 1: he's not going to change his herd. Who's the point

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Speaker 1: to have that guy in jail. He's a monster. I

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Speaker 1: don't expect anything from him. I just expect for him

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Speaker 1: not to have a good life, because he doesn't deserve

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Speaker 1: a good life. Ultimately, the chest Peak jury found him

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Speaker 1: guilty of capital murder and they gave him life. Chesapeake

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Speaker 1: has never given anybody the death penalty. But that's the

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Speaker 1: way it is. And I believe in the jury system.

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Speaker 1: And if your neighbors think you shouldn't get death, and

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Speaker 1: that's the way it goes. Personally, I think he should

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Speaker 1: have he knew exactly what he was doing. Malvo sitting

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Speaker 1: in Red Onion Prison. It's one of the nation's supermax is.

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Speaker 1: It's a very stark facility. He's spending twenty three hours

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Speaker 1: a day in a very small cell. He has no

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Speaker 1: physical interaction with any other inmates, and barring some outcome

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Speaker 1: from the resentencing, he will likely be there for the

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Speaker 1: rest of his life. I was okay with life without parole.

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Speaker 1: Now we're dealing with the situation where maybe someday he

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Speaker 1: will walk the streets again. Having grandchildren, do I want

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Speaker 1: to take the gamble that in their lifetime he will

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Speaker 1: walk the streets and take the gamble that he's going

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Speaker 1: to be fine and not revert back to something crazy.

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Speaker 1: There is a ruthless person on the loose. What I

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Speaker 1: nerves this community the most is the randomness of the murders,

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Speaker 1: ordinary people doing ordinary things. They killed the people in

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Speaker 1: one day and then went on the rampage for the

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Speaker 1: next month. It is quite a mystery. The police say

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Speaker 1: they have never had a crime quite like this. Be careful,

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Speaker 1: these guys are using weapons that are gonna go right

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Speaker 1: straight through our bulletproof vest. From My Heart Radio and

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Speaker 1: Tenderfoot TV, this is Monster DC sniper Lee Boyd Malvo

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Speaker 1: was sent to red Onion State Prison in the Western

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Speaker 1: party of Virginia, where he would serve his life sentence.

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Speaker 1: Red Onion is one of the strictest super max prisons

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Speaker 1: in the country. After he was incarcerated, he started talking

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Speaker 1: to people about what had happened, and the details he

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Speaker 1: provided changed the case in ways that no one anticipated.

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Speaker 1: One of the people he talked to was Anthony Meoli,

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Speaker 1: the criminologist who helped Malvo write his autobiography. What we

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Speaker 1: know is the d C Snipers is really the United

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Speaker 1: States Snipers. They shot people from Washington to Arizona to

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Speaker 1: allegedly Florida, South Carolina, North Carolina. So there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of people shot in many, many different states, according to

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Speaker 1: Lee's own words, Investigators had continued to look into other

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Speaker 1: crimes that they thought might be connected to the pair.

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Speaker 1: One crime they investigated was the death of Jerry Taylor.

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Speaker 1: He'd been shot with a rifle while golfing in Tucson, Arizona,

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Speaker 1: on March nineteo. His body had been found in the

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Speaker 1: bushes with his wallet nearby on the ground, but strangely,

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Speaker 1: his money and credit cards weren't missing. Investigators had learned

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Speaker 1: Mohammed and Malvo were in the area at the time,

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Speaker 1: visiting Mohammed's sister. This was the same trip where they

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Speaker 1: stole a credit card from a Greyhound bus driver. Later

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Speaker 1: they would ask that ten million dollars be deposited on

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Speaker 1: that car. But Taylor hadn't been shot by a two

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Speaker 1: to three rifle like the Bushmaster that Malvo and Mohammed

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Speaker 1: had used in their DC attacks, but rather a three

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Speaker 1: oh eight caliber rifle. Still, the shootings resembled the random

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Speaker 1: killings of the DC sniper attacks, and the fact that

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Speaker 1: Malvo and Mohammed were in the area when it happened

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Speaker 1: seemed like two big of a coincidence. So now that

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Speaker 1: Malvo appeared to be talking, investigators from the Tucson Police

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Speaker 1: Department went to interview him. That's a detective him in

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Speaker 1: his Tusson Police Department in going over our file. And

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Speaker 1: we know that you were in Tucson in early March

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Speaker 1: of two thousand two. Can you tell me how you

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Speaker 1: and I believe it was John Mohammed got to Tucson.

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Speaker 1: We got to Tussan by greyhound from Tacoma, Washington. Did

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Speaker 1: he tell you when you got on the bus coming

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Speaker 1: Tucson that this was a job and we're going to

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Speaker 1: do how do you phrase it? I don't know what

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Speaker 1: words you h We're gonna go to Tucson. Um, I

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Speaker 1: want to see my sister and this we're here to do.

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Speaker 1: Where did you do a job? Did he tell you

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Speaker 1: how much money he was paid to do this job?

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Speaker 1: You usually twenty five out Love to start, you brought

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Speaker 1: your sniper gear from Washington State. How did you know

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Speaker 1: he was a golfer? We had an address and he

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Speaker 1: had some additional information in the end, Love, it's one

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Speaker 1: one sheet of paper with writing back in front. Did

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Speaker 1: you know anything about the guy? The only thing he

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Speaker 1: showed me was the picture. I wasn't allowed to read anything. John,

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Speaker 1: I ever tell you why this guy had to die?

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Speaker 1: M hm. You have a job to do, yes, and

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Speaker 1: we have an address, but we're going to We go

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Speaker 1: out there in the morning. We walk in the area

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Speaker 1: and look at what's in the area. There's the houses

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Speaker 1: and there's a golf course at the back. We go

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Speaker 1: out there and we're looking for the guy in the picture.

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Speaker 1: I spot the man and what he does is after

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Speaker 1: hitting the balls for a couple hours, he comes down

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Speaker 1: the slope and picks up all the balls with the machine.

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Speaker 1: How many days would you say you spent at the

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Speaker 1: golf course hiding and watching this particularly, probably three three

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Speaker 1: days in time the day that this guy is shot.

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Speaker 1: Time we get out there in the morning, that even

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Speaker 1: says you have to do this and said no, because

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Speaker 1: I've never done this before. And he said, you're going

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Speaker 1: out there and doing this. This is the first time

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Speaker 1: you shot and kill someone, but it was the first

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Speaker 1: time you shot is killed somebody with this rifle. Yes,

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Speaker 1: that even as soon as we talked, I have to

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Speaker 1: go back out there in the last bus and stay

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Speaker 1: out there interred in the night. Where do you ever

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Speaker 1: rifle the rifles? And down in the case and in

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Speaker 1: the green Duffle bag that goes over back back. So

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Speaker 1: you have the Douffel bag on the bus, one of

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Speaker 1: the rifles in the case inside the Douffel bags. Did

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Speaker 1: you ever get questioned anybody ever looking at the bag?

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Speaker 1: You wouldn't really question, you know, it's like a camper's bag.

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Speaker 1: What kind of rifle was? Is a three? It nine

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Speaker 1: inches was cut off the original bar so that it

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Speaker 1: would fit easily with an event, and it was a

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Speaker 1: temporary suppressing. Where did you get that weapon? The weapon

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Speaker 1: was bought by Earl Dancy. So you get there the

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Speaker 1: night before, Yes, because I know he picks golf balls.

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Speaker 1: I put the golf balls on the slope, so you're

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Speaker 1: setting the balls to draw him to the area where

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Speaker 1: you want him to be. Once he sees those days

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Speaker 1: basically baited he goes after. Malvo says that he wore

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Speaker 1: camouflage clothes and hid under a tree, covering himself with

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Speaker 1: a net and branches. He camped out all night so

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Speaker 1: he'd be in position the next day when Jerry Taylor

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Speaker 1: went golfing. All right, So when does the guy show up?

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Speaker 1: Do you learn in one have you hit any balls

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Speaker 1: prior to coming down to that area? That sloped area.

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Speaker 1: The thing is where I was. I couldn't move to

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Speaker 1: get up and see him, but I knew he was

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Speaker 1: going to come down. And that's all I'm waiting on

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Speaker 1: because he's the one that always does it. He doesn't

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Speaker 1: last two days, comes down slope and picks up all

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Speaker 1: the balls. All right, So you're you're there. Wait and

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Speaker 1: if he goes down, why starts backing up balls. He

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Speaker 1: came close to me. He walked by and picked up

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Speaker 1: the first ball and then went around. I'm right here

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Speaker 1: and he's right here. He's a little bit about me

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Speaker 1: because I'm down in the ground. It's a traditional military

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Speaker 1: sniper position, all right, just a rifle of the scope.

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Speaker 1: So you had him in your sides. Yes, Then he

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Speaker 1: came back, and what's going back up the slope? That's

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Speaker 1: my new shot. He fell, lays down and there's no movement,

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Speaker 1: and I started to back up. Then he got back

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Speaker 1: up and started walking, and he starts going up the slope.

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Speaker 1: He didn't die immediately, and I had to go out

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Speaker 1: there and get him. And once I got him, like

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Speaker 1: pulled him here. Uh So you went after him and

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Speaker 1: you grabbed him and drag him down. Okay? Does he

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Speaker 1: say anything to you? Yes? He said he was saying

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Speaker 1: he was stepping. He was saying something. Do you remember

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Speaker 1: what he said he was? It was it was basically groans,

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Speaker 1: because it was like something filling up his mouth and

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Speaker 1: something of scars. But you could tell he was trying

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Speaker 1: to say something. Was he looking at you? He was striped? Yes? Okay,

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Speaker 1: so you drag him into the bushes? Yes, grab drag

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Speaker 1: him by the arms, legs, legs, legs. You take his wallet?

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Speaker 1: I take the wallet. Look at the picture to drop

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Speaker 1: the wallet. The bag was not far from there. It

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Speaker 1: was like laying under a boulder. Pulled it out, put

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Speaker 1: the women too pieces, closed it up, and then put

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Speaker 1: it in the back. Go out to the bus stop,

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Speaker 1: Get to the bus stop. What do you do? I

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Speaker 1: get the bus stop, I sit beside him and and jittery,

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Speaker 1: and he says, come there, no one knows he done anything.

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Speaker 1: How old were you talking? Uh? Assenting? Now that this

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Speaker 1: hall is is done, and you know, and you know

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Speaker 1: you've been through a lot in the last couple of

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Speaker 1: years with these proceedings, as are why are you talking

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Speaker 1: to I'm talking to you because I'm sorry, sorry, there's

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Speaker 1: something you want to say to the family or you

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Speaker 1: can't bring it back. I'm sorry, Thank you very much.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna go back to Tucson tomorrow morning and we're

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Speaker 1: going to have to talk to family and we're going

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Speaker 1: to have to tell the family that somebody that knew

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Speaker 1: this man wanted him dead and this is going to

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Speaker 1: be terrible news for that. According to the Arizona Daily

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Speaker 1: Star newspaper, police had no doubt that Malvo killed Taylor,

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Speaker 1: but Taylor's daughter, Cheryl Witz, said she couldn't imagine anyone

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Speaker 1: wanting to hurt her father, and police never found evidence

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Speaker 1: to support Malvo's claim that it was a hired killing.

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Speaker 1: So was Malvo lying or did Mohammed's underworld dealings extend

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Speaker 1: beyond smuggling people across borders? Was he working as a

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Speaker 1: hitman as well, or maybe Mohammed lied to Malvo and

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Speaker 1: this was part of how he groomed Malvo for the

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Speaker 1: d C attacks. Anthony Meolie, the criminologist who helped publish

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Speaker 1: Malvo's autobiography, says Malvo never mentioned any contract killings to him.

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Speaker 1: The idea that this was a contract hit, to me

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Speaker 1: is total hogwash. But Lee also referenced the fact that

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Speaker 1: he shot thirty six people. Lee himself shot thirty six

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Speaker 1: people and killed over twenty of them. He also said

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Speaker 1: that John shot as many as seventy people. Now I

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Speaker 1: don't know how true that is, but he said I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't put it passed him that he shot that many

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Speaker 1: people because he was always out doing bad things. Malvo

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Speaker 1: told me only that during the time he started killing

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Speaker 1: people with Mohammed, he believed deeply in the Nation of

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Speaker 1: Islam based philosophy that Mohammed had been teaching him. Mohammed

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Speaker 1: had him eating only a single small vegetarian meal a

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Speaker 1: day and would give him sepenty two different vitamins and supplements.

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Speaker 1: Malvo might have been even more of a true believer

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Speaker 1: than Mohammed. Malvo says, shortly after Mohammed had him shoot

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Speaker 1: Keenya Cook in Tacoma, he confronted Mohammed about inconsistencies he

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Speaker 1: was seeing. Mohammed had been telling him that the white

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Speaker 1: man was the devil, but he was dating a white woman.

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Speaker 1: He isn't in a relationship with his white baby. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you're talking all his didn't. I mean, I came on

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Speaker 1: to get him, to get your children back. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you can addy blow. Somebody worried out what's up? So

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Speaker 1: a week or two after the first shooting, he came

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Speaker 1: on a fift He was around at time, and I

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Speaker 1: sat tighter and I had a fified back. I said, look,

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Speaker 1: you called me out of here, and you said I

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Speaker 1: need to get my children back. That's why I'm here.

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Speaker 1: You can't talk. You know the white man is the devil,

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Speaker 1: and you missed Lucas won't be either your kids or

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Speaker 1: make your mind up. And make your mind up right

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Speaker 1: now before I put two rounds. There's a order than

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Speaker 1: the dashboards will take those quarters up. You will step

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Speaker 1: out the truck, walk to the phone, make the call

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Speaker 1: and say he's over. And that's the rep I need

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Speaker 1: to hear. You had actually at that moment bought entirely

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Speaker 1: into his plan, yes being but the plan US as

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Speaker 1: far ago could certainly make money along the way, find

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Speaker 1: the kids take and go to Canada, both flight school

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Speaker 1: and do what you want to do around that would

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Speaker 1: the layout it changed along the way. Malvo says Mohammed

249
00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:54,320
Speaker 1: had put together a list of cities with people named

250
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Speaker 1: Mildred Mohammed in them. He says they began traveling across

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Speaker 1: the country searching for mohammed Sex wife and his kids.

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Speaker 1: They first stopped at Los Angeles in February or March

253
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Speaker 1: of two thousand two, where they shot a man. Details

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00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:10,960
Speaker 1: about this killing are spars and the victim has never

255
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Speaker 1: been matched up with the alleged crime. Malvo says they

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00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:17,720
Speaker 1: went on to shoot and kill Jerry Taylor in Arizona

257
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Speaker 1: in March. Then, Malvo said they continued east and a

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Speaker 1: couple of months later, Mohammed shot another man at a

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Speaker 1: golf course in Florida. Investigators connected this to the mysterious

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Speaker 1: shooting of seventy six year old Albert Michael Sick. Michael

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Speaker 1: Sick was shot while golfing in Clearwater, Florida, on May

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00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:41,400
Speaker 1: eighteenth of that year. Malvo also confessed to involvement in

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Speaker 1: the May seven shooting a Billy Jean Dylan in Denton, Texas.

264
00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:50,440
Speaker 1: Dylan was murdered while doing yardwork, but Malvo told me

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Speaker 1: only that he and Mohammed committed so many crimes that

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Speaker 1: they all started to blur together. I mean, didn't summer

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Speaker 1: whole week, you know, ub or something We're gonna get pulled.

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Speaker 1: It would be some violence. He got to the point

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Speaker 1: where he said, I created a fucking monster. During this time,

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00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:11,800
Speaker 1: he got several nervous breakdown and each time he came

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Speaker 1: out of old he did need to bloodlet would be

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00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:17,080
Speaker 1: greater and greater. His need for violence would be greater

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00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:20,160
Speaker 1: and greater. He would he would just escalate. He was

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Speaker 1: bald train and I was on the train with him.

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Speaker 1: I will attached. After the Denton, Texas murder, Malvo says

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Speaker 1: he and Mohammed then traveled to a gun show in

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Speaker 1: El Paso, Texas, where Malvo stole the twenty two revolver

278
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Speaker 1: they would later use to shoot Paul Arufa. Then they

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00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:41,560
Speaker 1: went to Hammond, Louisiana, where they crossed paths with a

280
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Speaker 1: man named John Gata. It was a normal day. I

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00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:50,360
Speaker 1: went to work and I went home, and I was

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00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:53,800
Speaker 1: going to return to work to catch up on some stuff.

283
00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:56,440
Speaker 1: And I decided before I did that, thought I would

284
00:16:56,520 --> 00:17:00,520
Speaker 1: stop at the mall time on Square and used to shopping.

285
00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:03,520
Speaker 1: I did so, and I made a purchase, and then

286
00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:09,440
Speaker 1: I came out and I went to drive away, and

287
00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:14,240
Speaker 1: I noticed that I had a flat tire. I could

288
00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:17,199
Speaker 1: have driven just a little short piece to a service

289
00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:19,879
Speaker 1: station that's right in front of the mall, but I

290
00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:23,600
Speaker 1: just parked my truck that night. It was dark, of course,

291
00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:27,159
Speaker 1: you know you have a parking lot lighting. I was

292
00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:30,680
Speaker 1: just assessing the situation and I was getting some tools out.

293
00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:35,880
Speaker 1: There were two black men that walked right Bondy. They said,

294
00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:38,200
Speaker 1: it looks like you have a flat tire, and the

295
00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:41,879
Speaker 1: kind of laughed under the breath, and they asked me

296
00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:45,240
Speaker 1: if the mall was open. Well, I knew it was closing,

297
00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:48,200
Speaker 1: but just to buy myself more time, just you know,

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00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:51,240
Speaker 1: make sure they weren't up to something. I said it

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00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:53,959
Speaker 1: might be. I said, you could check something to that effect.

300
00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:57,640
Speaker 1: I didn't see where they came from where they went

301
00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:01,560
Speaker 1: and I went to the back of my vehicles because

302
00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:07,000
Speaker 1: that's where you would retrieve the spare tire, and I

303
00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:13,320
Speaker 1: saw a figure hunched over and running from the back

304
00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:19,080
Speaker 1: of my vehicle to the front. And I'm like, okay, well,

305
00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:22,920
Speaker 1: I'm not ready for this, and I said, I'll just

306
00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:25,160
Speaker 1: go to the other side of the vehicle and say

307
00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:28,920
Speaker 1: what do you want? So I went around to the

308
00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:33,960
Speaker 1: passenger side of the vehicle, and when I did, Malvo

309
00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:39,000
Speaker 1: met me face to face. He was about maybe six

310
00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:45,400
Speaker 1: ft away. Before I had a moment to think about anything,

311
00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:48,760
Speaker 1: I don't even know if I ever got out what

312
00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:55,200
Speaker 1: do you want, he just raised the pistol and shot me.

313
00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:58,879
Speaker 1: I thought he was aiming from my head, but the

314
00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:03,440
Speaker 1: bullet struck me on the right side of my neck.

315
00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:08,600
Speaker 1: I just remember falling to the ground. I just felt

316
00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:11,680
Speaker 1: like the safest thing to do was just lay there

317
00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:16,159
Speaker 1: for a few minutes. I don't remember feeling that they

318
00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:19,439
Speaker 1: were like reaching in my pocket. I noticed my wallet

319
00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:23,680
Speaker 1: was missing, without thinking that it might have a spinal

320
00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:26,480
Speaker 1: injury or anything. I was going to walk to the

321
00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:31,080
Speaker 1: service station and just call for help. Before I did,

322
00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:35,080
Speaker 1: there were some people, like passers by, and so they

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00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:37,840
Speaker 1: came up and they said, Stain, you're bleeding, Are you okay?

324
00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:40,080
Speaker 1: And I kind of looked at my shirt and it

325
00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:42,879
Speaker 1: was you know, blood on my shirt and at that

326
00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:47,680
Speaker 1: time I heard the ambulance siren. They took me to

327
00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:52,280
Speaker 1: the hospital and they treated me. The doctor said that

328
00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:55,200
Speaker 1: when he got the call, he said, well, this guy

329
00:19:55,359 --> 00:20:00,200
Speaker 1: is going to come in either paralyzed or dead. The

330
00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:04,600
Speaker 1: bullet had entered my neck. It traveled from the light

331
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Speaker 1: side of my neck to the left side of my

332
00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:12,240
Speaker 1: upper back, acrossing the final card without doing any damage.

333
00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:15,720
Speaker 1: I felt luck. I could just went back to work

334
00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:19,119
Speaker 1: that next day. I don't want missing work and my

335
00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:22,080
Speaker 1: friends and know, at least take the weekend or a

336
00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:26,000
Speaker 1: week or whatever, you know. When my vehicle was brought

337
00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:29,200
Speaker 1: to the provider who was going to fix the tire,

338
00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:32,879
Speaker 1: they noticed that the puncture on the tar was on

339
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:35,720
Speaker 1: the sidewalk. If you get a flat tire, it's on

340
00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:38,399
Speaker 1: the treads, but in this case it was like the

341
00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:42,280
Speaker 1: tar was purposely slashed. So I would you not be

342
00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:48,159
Speaker 1: able to drop off? Malvo and Mohammed then traveled to

343
00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:52,960
Speaker 1: Baton Rouge, Louisiana, Mohammed's hometown. Friends and relatives said it

344
00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:54,920
Speaker 1: seemed like he was going out of his way to

345
00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:57,960
Speaker 1: talk and visit with people he hadn't seen in years.

346
00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:01,439
Speaker 1: He lied to people, telling them he was still married

347
00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:03,760
Speaker 1: to Mildred, that he was doing well, and that he

348
00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:08,680
Speaker 1: owned houses in Canada and the Caribbean. And it was

349
00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:12,159
Speaker 1: here that Malvo says Mohammed first told him about his

350
00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:17,120
Speaker 1: plan for the d C attacks. Mohammed had a plan

351
00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:20,480
Speaker 1: that would have extended far beyond the horrors of October

352
00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:42,280
Speaker 1: two thousand two if they hadn't been stopped. In two

353
00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:46,200
Speaker 1: thousand six, Mohammed, who was already on death row in Virginia,

354
00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:49,879
Speaker 1: was prosecuted in Montgomery County, Maryland, for the six murders

355
00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:53,800
Speaker 1: that took place there. Malvo was prosecuted as well, but

356
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:57,800
Speaker 1: he pled guilty and agreed to testify against Mohammed and

357
00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:01,760
Speaker 1: share new details about the case, including John's full plan.

358
00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:07,080
Speaker 1: Here are excerpts from Mohammed's Maryland trial, with prosecutor Catherine

359
00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:11,959
Speaker 1: Winfrey questioning Malva. Winfrey and Malvo's quotes are read by

360
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:17,359
Speaker 1: voice actors. Now, did you go back to Louisiana in

361
00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:20,919
Speaker 1: mid July two? Yes, Now, when you were with him,

362
00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:23,359
Speaker 1: what would the two of you do? We would visit

363
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:25,639
Speaker 1: people he was dealing with at the time. Did you

364
00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:28,639
Speaker 1: feel like a member of the family. Yes? Did you

365
00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:32,959
Speaker 1: come to love Mr Mohammed. Yes, did you tell him

366
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:36,520
Speaker 1: you loved him? Yes? And how about his feelings for you?

367
00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:40,280
Speaker 1: Did he tell you that he loved you? Yes? Did

368
00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:45,560
Speaker 1: you believe that? Yes? And did there come a time

369
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:47,879
Speaker 1: that Mr Mohammed told you he had learned where his

370
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:51,520
Speaker 1: children were. Yes. We were in Baton Rouge at his

371
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:54,000
Speaker 1: brother's place. We were across the street and a gully,

372
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:57,240
Speaker 1: sitting on a log. He told me that children are

373
00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:00,520
Speaker 1: in Maryland, just outside d C. And he plained that

374
00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:05,920
Speaker 1: we're not going to get the children. Not yet explained

375
00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:08,439
Speaker 1: to me what was going to happen. After we left Louisiana.

376
00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:11,359
Speaker 1: He said, we were going to go to the Washington,

377
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:14,359
Speaker 1: D C. Area, and we're going to terrorize these people.

378
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:18,640
Speaker 1: Every day. They're going to be six shots, six slangs

379
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:22,600
Speaker 1: a day for thirty days. And after thirty days, what

380
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:25,720
Speaker 1: was going to happen. Phase two was to create much

381
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:29,840
Speaker 1: more damage by using improvised explosives. We had ball bearings

382
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:33,520
Speaker 1: or nails. Usually. What I was told was we get schools,

383
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:39,800
Speaker 1: school buses, hospitals, children's hospitals. Everything is around children. Malvo

384
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,000
Speaker 1: later elaborated on Mohammed's plan when he spoke to me

385
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:47,120
Speaker 1: only from prison. We're got ruish. I think the July

386
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:49,800
Speaker 1: he played to me that we're going to go DC

387
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 1: and we're going to carize the parts work and we're

388
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:57,840
Speaker 1: just going to go into that region and just were

389
00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:00,359
Speaker 1: habit and shut it down because all these people care

390
00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:03,320
Speaker 1: about it. There sucking money. And if you disturb that

391
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:05,840
Speaker 1: process and let people know that they're not stay eight

392
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,399
Speaker 1: were eight times this system is no longer visible. So

393
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:12,360
Speaker 1: when he explained it to me, I said, this man,

394
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,120
Speaker 1: we can robbing and doing work, doing what you're asking

395
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:17,080
Speaker 1: to do, and we made you know X amount of money,

396
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:19,320
Speaker 1: you have, the passports, you have, the contact, we know

397
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:23,119
Speaker 1: what the children are why and just kicked him and leaves.

398
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:25,480
Speaker 1: I mean that's that's the whole story. I mean what

399
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:28,879
Speaker 1: he's like, No, I don't get back to these mothers,

400
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:32,080
Speaker 1: focus the I don't kill Drew birds. You want to stop.

401
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:36,399
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get children and we're gonna terrorize. They're going

402
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:40,720
Speaker 1: to know what they have done. In the Maryland trial,

403
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:45,439
Speaker 1: prosecutor Winfrey asked Melvo about what happened next. What did

404
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 1: you do after he told you about this plan to terrorize?

405
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 1: He was gone during the day after he told this

406
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,639
Speaker 1: to me. I sat in the bathroom played Russian Roulette

407
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:59,240
Speaker 1: for several hours with the twenty two revolver. HI loaded

408
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:05,919
Speaker 1: one round, spun, put it to my head, fire, fire, fire,

409
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:10,480
Speaker 1: until I reached the fourth round. And then I realized

410
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:14,320
Speaker 1: this was the round and I just I just broke down.

411
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:18,439
Speaker 1: I couldn't do it now. From Baton Rouge, Louisiana. Did

412
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:22,080
Speaker 1: you return to Cooma, Washington? Yes? And while you were there,

413
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 1: did you steal a two to three Bushmaster high powered rifle? Yes?

414
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,600
Speaker 1: From Bull's Eye it's a gun shop. Now. Did there

415
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:31,879
Speaker 1: come a time in late August of two two that

416
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,640
Speaker 1: you and John Allan Mohammed left to come to Washington,

417
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 1: d C. Yes. We came to Clinton, Maryland first to

418
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:41,200
Speaker 1: scoop out where his wife and children was. At First

419
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:43,440
Speaker 1: he sent me to go knock on the door to

420
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:47,440
Speaker 1: see if it's his wife. I went not she was

421
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:51,080
Speaker 1: sitting in the living room watching television. I recognized her

422
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:54,720
Speaker 1: face based on pictures that I've seen earlier. I returned

423
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 1: and told Mohammed, yes, that's her residence. Then there's an

424
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:03,200
Speaker 1: area with the fence directly across the street from there.

425
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:07,199
Speaker 1: I'd watch when she left, Who came there? What did

426
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:12,440
Speaker 1: the children do? When did they leave? Basically surveillance and

427
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:15,399
Speaker 1: did Mr Mohammed take his children during that time? No,

428
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 1: he said not yet, not yet. Mr Mohammed had several

429
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,399
Speaker 1: looks when he said not yet. A company with that

430
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:27,600
Speaker 1: look it meant it's final. Didn't ask him any more questions.

431
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 1: Whenever he spoke about his wife. What were the emotions

432
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:33,879
Speaker 1: that he displayed. You could tell he was uncomfortable with

433
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 1: her having his children. He was angry. Did Mr Mohammed

434
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 1: ever discuss September eleven with you? Yes, he said, bloodshed

435
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 1: begets bloodshed. It's a process, and America begun this Osama

436
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 1: bin Laden didn't develop in a vacuum. They trained him,

437
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 1: They taught him to fight the Soviets, and it came home.

438
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:58,399
Speaker 1: He hated this country. He hates this country. Did he

439
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 1: tell you why he hates the country? Slavery, the hypocrisy,

440
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 1: their foreign policy, just the entirety of the nation. Malvo

441
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,479
Speaker 1: said that after confirming that Mildred and the kids were

442
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 1: living in Clinton, Maryland, Mohammed had him rob Paul Arufa

443
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:19,560
Speaker 1: outside his restaurant, and then with Larufa's money, they went

444
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 1: to New Jersey to buy the blue Capris Malvo says.

445
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 1: They then drove to the southeast so they could modify

446
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 1: and test out the car outside of the d C area.

447
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 1: What was the reason you stopped Montgomery, Alabama? The modifications

448
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:36,120
Speaker 1: were fully made. He wanted to test them. We found

449
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,720
Speaker 1: an ABC liquor store. There's a car wash across the street.

450
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:43,400
Speaker 1: I sat there pretended to read the armor like gun magazine.

451
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 1: I had two jobs to see when it's all over,

452
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 1: if I could tell where the shot was coming from.

453
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 1: And my main goal was to be the pickup man.

454
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,159
Speaker 1: I was supposed to run, pick up the bag, and

455
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:59,159
Speaker 1: then head directly to the pickup spot. Now what happened

456
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 1: After Mr Mohammed fired the two shots. I went to

457
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 1: the front of the ABC. The two women were laying

458
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 1: on the ground. The black lady was on her back

459
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:12,680
Speaker 1: and there was blood around her head them. The white

460
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,680
Speaker 1: lady was laying there was blood on the concrete around

461
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:19,440
Speaker 1: her body. Both of them were not moving. I was

462
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,200
Speaker 1: frantically looking for the bag because I know I only

463
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 1: have so much time. I grabbed something I can't remember exactly.

464
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:30,160
Speaker 1: Once I grabbed it, I heard freeze and I took

465
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:34,119
Speaker 1: off the officer was running behind me. I jumped the

466
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 1: fence and jumped another fence, then went into the car

467
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 1: and then went directly on the highway and left. Now

468
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 1: at some point, did you head back north? Yes, we

469
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 1: drove all the way up to Montgomery County to begin

470
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:50,720
Speaker 1: the shootings. Why this area? Why Montgomery County? He said

471
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:54,520
Speaker 1: it was middle class, well off, mostly whites, that it

472
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 1: was a perfect area to terrorize. And who would choose

473
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,719
Speaker 1: which actual shooting you do and which one Mr Mohammed

474
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 1: would do? Mr Mohammed would make the choice. May I

475
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:08,120
Speaker 1: direct your attention to Wednesday, October two of two thousand two,

476
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 1: about six o'clock in the evening. Did you and Mr

477
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 1: Mohammed go to the Shoppers food warehouse? Yes, we went

478
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 1: to the Y m c A on Wednesday morning. Then

479
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 1: that evening we uh, that's when everything began. That's when

480
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 1: he said, today's going to be the first shot. Who

481
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 1: was driving the car he would drive in areas like

482
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 1: this because I did not have a license. And then

483
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 1: what happened After he parked the car, he stepped over

484
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 1: his driver's seat, went into the back and entered the trunk.

485
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:39,240
Speaker 1: What was your role? You're sitting in the front seat.

486
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 1: What's your job? Make sure there's no one walking by

487
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 1: on the sidewalk and there are no car stopped. And

488
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:50,400
Speaker 1: did you see his target? Mr? Malvo? An elderly white

489
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 1: male in a brown suit. And once I told him

490
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 1: he had to go, the shot was taken. What happened

491
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 1: after Mr Mohammed shot Mr Martin? He fell. Mr Mohammed

492
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 1: came up. I went into the back disassembled the weapon.

493
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 1: Do you remember where you went after Mr Mohammed shot

494
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 1: Mr Martin? No, was their plan for the next day, Yes,

495
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,200
Speaker 1: we're supposed to get at least five shootings, possibly six.

496
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 1: Malvo later told me only that things didn't go exactly

497
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 1: as planned, or at least things deviated from the plan

498
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 1: that Mohammed had been telling Malvo. Suddenly their plan went

499
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 1: from shooting five Caucasions to now basically shooting five of

500
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 1: any human being. Obviously, it's easier to shoot people of

501
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 1: multiple cultures because there's more people around. It would also

502
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 1: if only whites were being shot, it might have been

503
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 1: easier to develop a profile that our shooters are African American.

504
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 1: Here's more of Meoli's interview with Malvo. Did you think

505
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 1: said John was racist towards whites at all? God, yeah, absolutely,

506
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 1: I mean in nation plot, the white Men of the

507
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 1: del So if he was preaching racist idealism and the

508
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 1: hatred of whites, why would other races be targeted? During

509
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 1: the belt Waite shootings. You've seen the major there is

510
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 1: a scene in which Market is training me in their

511
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 1: walk in the country because everyone departed the system. So

512
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,720
Speaker 1: as far as Mom was concerned, if you participate in

513
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 1: the system, you are in any and the system is

514
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 1: that the white economic system, meant the whites have created

515
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 1: as a system of control. And if convinced every other

516
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 1: nation or people on the planet that this is the

517
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 1: system to adopted, is the way to go. And after

518
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 1: the very first day of shooting in the belt Waite

519
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 1: sniper shootings as we know them, Lee realized emotionally he

520
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 1: could not do this. It was too much for him

521
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 1: to do, which is why after the first day there's

522
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,479
Speaker 1: a bit of a drop off. So the plan went

523
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 1: off the rails. Even from day one, we didn't realize

524
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 1: it was going off the rails, but according to Lee,

525
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:10,720
Speaker 1: it was and me only says that the latter phases

526
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 1: of the plan were even more sadistic. Than what Malvo

527
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 1: described in the Maryland Quadroom. Phase two was even worse.

528
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 1: The original Phase two was it was supposed to take

529
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 1: place in Baltimore, Maryland, and they were going to shoot

530
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 1: a pregnant woman. The reason why that shooting was going

531
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:30,480
Speaker 1: to be so horrific was the nation would say, wow,

532
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 1: these people do not care at all. The idea was

533
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 1: that when they started to investigate the case, they were

534
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 1: going to kill one of the Baltimore police officers. He'ven

535
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 1: happy to walk up to adopted after the question, shot

536
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,480
Speaker 1: it to it and the head off and leave it

537
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 1: on the seat. That's gonna shot outrage the mayor, the governor,

538
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:53,480
Speaker 1: A lot of people are going to come on intac

539
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 1: police department. We were did there there off, He's going

540
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 1: to take exprovide which he had, which he and he

541
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 1: was like a label. They were going to use improvised

542
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 1: explosive devices at the funeral and while they were going off,

543
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:11,959
Speaker 1: they would wait a few minutes and then use them

544
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 1: again when first responders arrived. There was going to be

545
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 1: the immediate policing entire gathering, basically lifting that police department.

546
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 1: And then there were the secondary devices before the ambibaces

547
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 1: and fire trucks and everybody who respond that. Then, as

548
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 1: if that wasn't bad enough, when they Phase three began,

549
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 1: they would extort money from the government. They were going

550
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 1: to say, you can't stop us from doing this, and

551
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 1: we want ten million dollars. The third phases to disappear

552
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 1: and take children like myself and trained them and then

553
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 1: release them the door and reprocate the process in different ways.

554
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 1: But Malvo told me only the plan quickly fell apart

555
00:33:56,400 --> 00:34:00,160
Speaker 1: because Malvo couldn't emotionally handle what Mohammed was asking him

556
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 1: to do. Lee lined up the pregnant woman, but he

557
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 1: decided he couldn't shoot her. So really phase one in

558
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 1: phase two never happened simply because Lee could not do it.

559
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:13,160
Speaker 1: His conscience would not allow him to do it. So

560
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 1: if John tried to develop a killer who had no

561
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 1: moral compunctions whatsoever, he was unable to do it. Lee

562
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:25,959
Speaker 1: for some reason, drew the line at killing a pregnant woman.

563
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 1: He was willing to shoot a thirteen year old child

564
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 1: going to school, but he was not willing to kill

565
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:34,719
Speaker 1: a pregnant woman. And the only doesn't buy that. The

566
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 1: shootings were strongly motivated by the Nation of Islam. Ideology.

567
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 1: Me only thinks Mohammed and Malbo were just angry and

568
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:47,239
Speaker 1: escalating their murder spree. Were the Beltway sniper shootings, this

569
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 1: alleged brainwashing job that needed to get done in order

570
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 1: to rid the system of whites when none of that

571
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 1: panned out? Or was it a case where a man

572
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 1: who was angry and spiraling out of control emotionally, along

573
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:08,360
Speaker 1: with a self hating, angry young man, started shooting random

574
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 1: targets for their own personal satisfaction. Nothing went along with

575
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:18,760
Speaker 1: the plan, nothing went along with the phases, and nothing

576
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:21,919
Speaker 1: seemed to go along with the belief system. So that's

577
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:26,960
Speaker 1: why I have trouble believing in this whole indoctrination because

578
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:31,880
Speaker 1: the killings don't jive with that story. It doesn't make sense.

579
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 1: In my opinion, they were unraveling. We often see this

580
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:44,800
Speaker 1: in whether it's serial shooters or spree shooters or even

581
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 1: serial killers. When killers have a compulsion to kill, eventually

582
00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 1: they start making mistakes because their compulsion over rides not

583
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:59,799
Speaker 1: only common sense, but you know, their criminal intellect. As

584
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 1: marty as they were when they began their plan, they

585
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:05,359
Speaker 1: start making mistakes, They start leaving clues. In this case,

586
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 1: they even start leaving tarot cards. You know, handwriting is traceable,

587
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:15,920
Speaker 1: they leave voices. Eventually Malvo's fingerprint is tracked, so eventually

588
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 1: things do unravel. But that's usually what we see in

589
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 1: these cases is the killers start to get sloppy and

590
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 1: they start to get emotionally worn. And these are human

591
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 1: beings taking lies. If people think that it's not an

592
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:32,800
Speaker 1: emotional toll to do that, they're mistaken. Something that a

593
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 1: lot of serial killers have told me that there's only

594
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 1: so much soul that they have, and eventually it's gone

595
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 1: and they start making mistakes. And here this was a

596
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 1: physical one. Lee fell asleep on the watch when you

597
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:48,440
Speaker 1: should have been wake. If they had been listening to

598
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 1: the radio like they should have been, like he was,

599
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 1: he would have known that the ap B had been

600
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 1: out for the license plate and they would have changed

601
00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:58,279
Speaker 1: plates and never gotten at least not gotten caught that night.

602
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:03,920
Speaker 1: It's my professional opinion that by themselves they would not

603
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:07,200
Speaker 1: have committed these crimes. But together they made for a

604
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 1: perfect duo. We've seen this before many times, where by

605
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 1: themselves they both have animosity, they both have maybe some

606
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:22,319
Speaker 1: tendencies towards extreme violence. One of them may or may

607
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:25,800
Speaker 1: not possess some type of mental disorder. We see that

608
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:29,160
Speaker 1: time and time again. Body and Clyde are perfect example

609
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 1: of this. Investigators learned more about Mohammed and Malbo's relationship

610
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:39,759
Speaker 1: at Mohammed's trial in Maryland in two thousand six. After

611
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:43,680
Speaker 1: being questioned by prosecutors, Malvo was cross examined by the

612
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:47,879
Speaker 1: defense and Mohammed was defending himself, so the pair came

613
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:50,840
Speaker 1: face to face for the first time since they were arrested.

614
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:56,880
Speaker 1: This would also be the last time they interacted. Mohammed

615
00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:59,799
Speaker 1: began by questioning Malbo about the period when he first

616
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:04,160
Speaker 1: ribed in Washington State. Here are excerpts read by voice actors.

617
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 1: Can you tell us who Mary Maurezes. She's a white

618
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:12,320
Speaker 1: lady who was your girlfriend at the time. Can you

619
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 1: tell us about Alan Archa, Mr Archer runs the shelter.

620
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:23,759
Speaker 1: He's a very kind, compassionate guy. Okay, do you remember me,

621
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 1: you and Don Holland sitting down at his table and

622
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:32,200
Speaker 1: his wonderful wife could con dinner. Yes, okay, So the

623
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 1: first four people that you met pertained to my life

624
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:40,920
Speaker 1: in the state of Washington was white. Yes, you mentioned

625
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:44,920
Speaker 1: I called a white man the devil that is true.

626
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:47,959
Speaker 1: This is true. And how close was me and Mary?

627
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:54,800
Speaker 1: You were close? Mr Malville, you mentioned that you was indoctrinated.

628
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:57,840
Speaker 1: Did not the experts in your child state that Marville

629
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:01,880
Speaker 1: was indoctrinated by Mohammed? Yes? Let me ask you something.

630
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 1: Do you know what indoctrination is? Okay? What is it?

631
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:15,239
Speaker 1: Indoctrination is a process under which the person who came

632
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 1: under influence is brought to do things he wouldn't have

633
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:23,600
Speaker 1: done on his own. So a person, according to your definition,

634
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:27,680
Speaker 1: a person can be indoctrinated to do what is right.

635
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 1: Isn't that correct? Yes, I'm sorry I didn't hear you. Yes,

636
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:35,719
Speaker 1: he answer, You're honest. She can't tell me what I

637
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:39,360
Speaker 1: heard with my own ears. Is it your testimony that

638
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:42,239
Speaker 1: one of the reasons why you were attracted to John

639
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:45,360
Speaker 1: Allen Mohammed was because the way I treated the children.

640
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:49,240
Speaker 1: What's the way that you wanted to be treated? Yes? Okay?

641
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:52,480
Speaker 1: And then did I not treat you that way for

642
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:56,120
Speaker 1: a period of time? Yes, But for the period of

643
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:58,799
Speaker 1: time you were talking about pertaining to these crimes, did

644
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:02,879
Speaker 1: I not treat you that way? Yes? Okay? And why

645
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:06,960
Speaker 1: did John Selena into Labor call you their brother. Can

646
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:09,200
Speaker 1: you answer that for me? You sat them down and

647
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:12,440
Speaker 1: introduced me as part of the family. Do you remember

648
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:18,239
Speaker 1: the time happening in Antigua that Indrea, my girlfriend, almost drowned. Yes.

649
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 1: You were off the island and before I left? Who

650
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 1: did I give the responsibility of those children who I

651
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 1: hold dead and near to my heart? Me? Correct? And

652
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:32,440
Speaker 1: something happened when I was gone. A gentleman almost drowned.

653
00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:36,359
Speaker 1: Is that correct? Yes? And Andrea went into the water

654
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 1: trying to save him. Is that correct? Yes? She almost drowned. Yes.

655
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:44,839
Speaker 1: And Selena called for her big brother, who was her

656
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:48,960
Speaker 1: big brother me, and when her big brother came, her

657
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:52,160
Speaker 1: big brother pulled Andrea out of the water, didn't he. Yes?

658
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 1: And then Andrea told you something that you didn't know

659
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:57,719
Speaker 1: at the time. My son, little John, was in that water,

660
00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:04,279
Speaker 1: and you went back and got him, didn't you? Yes? Why? Why?

661
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:09,440
Speaker 1: Because I love him? Isn't it true if you wasn't there,

662
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 1: that boy would have lost his life? Yes? Okay, So

663
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:15,719
Speaker 1: what I asked you to do was to take care

664
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 1: of my family. Did I indoctrinate you then? No. Mohammed's

665
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:24,840
Speaker 1: been much of his cross examination trying to twist Melvo's

666
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:28,680
Speaker 1: words to cast doubt on his testimony. At times, it

667
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:31,239
Speaker 1: felt like he was giving the rest of the world

668
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:33,839
Speaker 1: a glimpse about He might have bullied young Lee Boyd

669
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:37,960
Speaker 1: Malvo into submission with his words, but now four years later,

670
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 1: one year old Lee Boyd Malvo was better equipped to

671
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:44,719
Speaker 1: fight back. You stated that you went into the Bulls

672
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:48,520
Speaker 1: eight store. Yes, okay, when you went into the store,

673
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:51,160
Speaker 1: was it people in the store? Oh? Yes? I noticed

674
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 1: you said that quick. Was there a reason why you

675
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:56,799
Speaker 1: responded so fast that objection. Was there a person at

676
00:41:56,840 --> 00:42:00,880
Speaker 1: the front door, cashier or something like that, yes? And

677
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:05,040
Speaker 1: was there other people, customers everywhere else in the store. Yes?

678
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:08,799
Speaker 1: And you had a case, a gun case. Okay? How

679
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:11,200
Speaker 1: big was it? It was big enough for the weapon

680
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:14,320
Speaker 1: to fit in it? Okay. Now take us through exactly

681
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 1: what you did. I came in and according to the plan,

682
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:20,920
Speaker 1: once both the security guards were distracted, I picked up

683
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:23,959
Speaker 1: the weapon, break it down. The case is already open,

684
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:27,440
Speaker 1: put it in, close it and walk out. You mentioned

685
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 1: earlier that the case was long enough to contain the weapon.

686
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:33,320
Speaker 1: Is that correct? Yes? And then you also stated that

687
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:35,399
Speaker 1: you broke the weapon down to fit into a case.

688
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:38,000
Speaker 1: Can you tell us why it was on a bipod.

689
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 1: I had to break the bipod down to put it

690
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:43,959
Speaker 1: in there, and then you walked out the door. Yes, okay,

691
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:47,360
Speaker 1: let me ask you something. Do you have an invisible suit? On? Objection,

692
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:50,640
Speaker 1: let's go to the bus stuff. Do you remember stating

693
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:53,560
Speaker 1: that we also went to Hawaii? I said that? And

694
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:55,320
Speaker 1: how long did it take for us to get to

695
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:57,800
Speaker 1: Hawaii on the bus? That was a lie? That was

696
00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:01,480
Speaker 1: a lie. Okay. You also stay we went to Alaska's

697
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:04,839
Speaker 1: that correct? Yes, how long did it take for us

698
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:07,799
Speaker 1: to get to Alaska on the bus? That was a lie?

699
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:11,320
Speaker 1: That was allowed to okay? Uh. You also stated that

700
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:15,640
Speaker 1: we went to main correct, I remember Alaska and Hawaii.

701
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 1: Do you remember Sam Walker asking you where did you

702
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 1: learn how to shoot? And you said Alaska, Main in Hawaii.

703
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:25,880
Speaker 1: I said a lot of things I can't recall. I

704
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 1: can't recall details of my statements. So you say a

705
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 1: lot of things in your statements, just like you said

706
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:34,120
Speaker 1: a lot in the courtroom right now? Objection, That wasn't true. Objection.

707
00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:41,480
Speaker 1: After Mohammed finished his cross examination, prosecutors were given another

708
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:45,320
Speaker 1: chance to follow up with malvo. I want to specifically

709
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:47,800
Speaker 1: ask you about some of the questions that Mr Mohammed

710
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:51,080
Speaker 1: asked you. He asked you some questions about Mary Marez,

711
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 1: the woman that he had a relationship with. Yes, how

712
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:56,239
Speaker 1: did he make you feel about white people at that

713
00:43:56,320 --> 00:44:00,880
Speaker 1: point in time? Hate you still feel that way now? No?

714
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:04,760
Speaker 1: Mr Mohammed asked you a lot of questions, Mr Malvo

715
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:06,880
Speaker 1: about whether you saw a difference in the way he

716
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:10,400
Speaker 1: treated you and his own sons. What was the difference

717
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:13,200
Speaker 1: that you perceived in the way John Alan Mohammed treated

718
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:16,360
Speaker 1: his biological sons and the way he treated you, Mr Malvo,

719
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 1: Mr Mohammed did not use any of his children to

720
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:24,560
Speaker 1: murder other people. When you talk to detectives in Fairfax

721
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:27,200
Speaker 1: prior to the trial, you hadn't heard the testimony of

722
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:30,520
Speaker 1: the witnesses. So where did you get the information? I

723
00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:33,800
Speaker 1: was there, he was there, and I knew what we

724
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:37,200
Speaker 1: both did. That's all the questions I have, your honor.

725
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:58,960
Speaker 1: Mohammed was found guilty again and was sentenced to life

726
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:02,759
Speaker 1: without parole. He continued to fight against his Virginia death

727
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:07,160
Speaker 1: penalty sentences, but he soon ran out of appeals. His

728
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 1: execution was set for November two thousand nine. Here's Paul Larufa,

729
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:17,640
Speaker 1: the survivor shot outside his restaurant in Clinton, Maryland. I

730
00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:20,160
Speaker 1: didn't want to go to his execution, and I wrote

731
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 1: a memo which basically said, I I understand you folks

732
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 1: being there. I understand your need to be there. I

733
00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:32,120
Speaker 1: don't have a need to see him die, and I

734
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:36,400
Speaker 1: don't want him to take another day out of my life.

735
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:40,000
Speaker 1: I'm sorry at any death, but I think if anybody

736
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 1: deserved the death penalty, it was him. Here's Cheryl Witz,

737
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:48,960
Speaker 1: the daughter of Jerry Taylor, who Melvo confessed to shooting

738
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:52,359
Speaker 1: on the golf course in Arizona. Wits was interviewed right

739
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:56,880
Speaker 1: before Mohammed's execution. Anybody that can do the things that

740
00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:59,920
Speaker 1: he did, brain watched a child and killing all the

741
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:02,720
Speaker 1: people that he did, do all this to all the victims,

742
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:08,160
Speaker 1: the families, his own family. He's an animal, He's a monster.

743
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:10,719
Speaker 1: What was your view of the death penalty prior to

744
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:14,240
Speaker 1: this tragedy. Well, I really wasn't for the death penalty

745
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:17,200
Speaker 1: because I just didn't believe, you know, it's going to

746
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 1: bring the the victim back. But after he killed my father,

747
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:26,360
Speaker 1: I knew that if he got the death penalty, I

748
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:29,239
Speaker 1: would be sitting in this chair and watching the execution.

749
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:33,239
Speaker 1: I just I have to witness that. I need to

750
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 1: witness that. In Virginia, the execution room, or death chamber

751
00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:41,560
Speaker 1: as it's also known, contains a cross shaped bed with

752
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:46,200
Speaker 1: arms made to facilitate injections. Two wolves of the room

753
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:49,839
Speaker 1: have mirrors, one way mirrors, behind which are rooms full

754
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:54,920
Speaker 1: of spectators, one for victims and their families, another for lawyers, press,

755
00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:59,680
Speaker 1: and Mohammed's family. Mohammed's ex wife, Mildred, says her children

756
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:04,600
Speaker 1: to see Mohammed before the execution. They said, Mom, you know,

757
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 1: we really want to talk to that. So I called

758
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:11,160
Speaker 1: the warden. The warden said I would need to put

759
00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:14,080
Speaker 1: their names on the docket and that John would have

760
00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:17,920
Speaker 1: to agree to see them. He said, but Ms Mohammed,

761
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:21,680
Speaker 1: your children are under eighteen, he said, So that means

762
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:25,640
Speaker 1: you have to come with them. Oh oh no, sir, mmmmm.

763
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:28,840
Speaker 1: I will find somebody else to bring them, but I

764
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:33,560
Speaker 1: am not going in there. But John would not put

765
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:37,520
Speaker 1: their names on the docket. So we get to the

766
00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:42,520
Speaker 1: day of the execution and the media is reporting all

767
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:46,920
Speaker 1: of his visitors, one of his sons and some other

768
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:51,680
Speaker 1: family members. So my son. So while all of them

769
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:54,399
Speaker 1: are there and we're not their mom, what's up with that? Said,

770
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:58,160
Speaker 1: I am not going to make excuses for your dad.

771
00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:04,359
Speaker 1: It's his choice. So his attorney said, I'm gonna call

772
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:08,200
Speaker 1: you before he goes into the chamber. Make sure that

773
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:11,880
Speaker 1: your children are right there so he can talk to him. So,

774
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:15,560
Speaker 1: as we're watching TV, I see the gentleman coming to

775
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:18,120
Speaker 1: the microphone. I say, yeah, this is not going to

776
00:48:18,239 --> 00:48:23,280
Speaker 1: be good. At John Mohammed was walked into the death chamber.

777
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:26,880
Speaker 1: He kind of staggered in. He was in a blue shirt,

778
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:30,759
Speaker 1: blue Denham jeans. He's kind of being held up by

779
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:35,319
Speaker 1: corrections officers. He looked around, mostly to the floor. He's

780
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:38,880
Speaker 1: very clean cut. They strapped him in by his legs first,

781
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:42,760
Speaker 1: then his waist, then his arms. Then the blue curtain

782
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:45,960
Speaker 1: was shut. The department corrections officials tell us the blue

783
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:47,920
Speaker 1: curtain was shut so most of people in the back

784
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:51,360
Speaker 1: the administering the execution can they can protect their identity.

785
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:55,320
Speaker 1: At nine oh six, they pulled the curtain back. You

786
00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:59,400
Speaker 1: can see Mohammed strapped there. They asked him right after that,

787
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:02,600
Speaker 1: Mr Hammed, do you have me last words? He didn't

788
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:06,400
Speaker 1: say anything. At nine oh seven. You can see him

789
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:09,000
Speaker 1: twitching a lot. You can see his and blinking a lot,

790
00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:12,640
Speaker 1: and you can see his breathing increase. At nine oh eight,

791
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:17,320
Speaker 1: he sat there. He was there, motionless. At nine eleven pm,

792
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:27,200
Speaker 1: Mohammed was pronounced dead. I went to the execution. This

793
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:31,120
Speaker 1: is Nelson Rivera, whose wife Lorie and Louis Rivera was

794
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:35,000
Speaker 1: shot and killed on October third, two two. You know,

795
00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:37,800
Speaker 1: with the pain and all the anger there, I have

796
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:42,720
Speaker 1: that that was going to release me. I was feeling

797
00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:45,799
Speaker 1: good at that moment. But you know, just to see him,

798
00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:51,400
Speaker 1: He's attitude to not say anything to the families. That

799
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:55,680
Speaker 1: guy was, it was a monster. You know, he didn't

800
00:49:55,719 --> 00:49:58,920
Speaker 1: deserve to be here. It was too easy for him.

801
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:02,880
Speaker 1: The just put that injection to him. That was too

802
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:06,880
Speaker 1: easy for what he did to all the victims. He

803
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:09,800
Speaker 1: didn't give them an opportunity, you know, to be with

804
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:16,360
Speaker 1: their families, to to enjoy their kids. The gentleman coming

805
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:20,960
Speaker 1: to the microphone said, John Mohammed has expired. Nine eleven

806
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:27,160
Speaker 1: and my children went three different directions For all of

807
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:30,560
Speaker 1: Mohammed's claims that he loved his children, the children that

808
00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:33,760
Speaker 1: he told Lee he was desperate to see again. Mohammed

809
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:36,600
Speaker 1: didn't speak to his children when he had the opportunity.

810
00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:40,560
Speaker 1: My son went by himself and I said, honey, are

811
00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:44,799
Speaker 1: you okay? Said I'm good, Ma, I'm good. So then

812
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:48,640
Speaker 1: I went to lib She was on the floor screaming,

813
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:53,440
Speaker 1: crying uncontrollably. I picked her up, created her go over

814
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:58,640
Speaker 1: to Selena. She's whimpering on the sofa. I said, honey,

815
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:03,200
Speaker 1: you're okay. No, Mommy, I'm not okay. I said, okay,

816
00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:07,880
Speaker 1: tell me what's going on. Do you understand that daddy

817
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:14,040
Speaker 1: was gonna kill you? Yep? I understand that completely. He

818
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:16,440
Speaker 1: didn't love his mom, he didn't love us. If he

819
00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:19,719
Speaker 1: was gonna kill you, I hate him. I say, no,

820
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:22,239
Speaker 1: you don't. You don't hate him. Don't tell me how

821
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:27,359
Speaker 1: I feel. I said, okay, it's going now. You gotta

822
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:31,440
Speaker 1: let it go. It's gonna kill you. Gotta let it go.

823
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:34,920
Speaker 1: And she looked up at me, and I knew what

824
00:51:35,080 --> 00:51:38,520
Speaker 1: she was looking for. She was looking for some type

825
00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:43,000
Speaker 1: of emotion that I had. Because her dad had just

826
00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:51,239
Speaker 1: been executed, I had absolutely nothing. When he said to me,

827
00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:55,279
Speaker 1: you have become my enemy, and as my enemy, I

828
00:51:55,360 --> 00:52:01,600
Speaker 1: will kill you. I severed every emotional tie to him,

829
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:08,719
Speaker 1: to me, he was a stranger being executed. Why would

830
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:11,560
Speaker 1: Mohammed put his own children through the terror of the

831
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:16,040
Speaker 1: d C attacks. Why did he go to Prince George's county, Maryland,

832
00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:19,399
Speaker 1: the county where they lived, to shoot aboard the same

833
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:24,840
Speaker 1: age as his son John. Some suggest that Mohammed didn't

834
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:27,960
Speaker 1: just want to kill Mildred, he wanted to terrorize her,

835
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:31,760
Speaker 1: and what happened to his children was just collateral damage.

836
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:36,560
Speaker 1: After all, Mohammed's need for violence seemed to override the

837
00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:40,800
Speaker 1: love he claimed to feel for Malvo as well. Mohammed

838
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:43,840
Speaker 1: told Malvo that he loved him, but then let Malvo

839
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:48,240
Speaker 1: fall on the sword after they were arrested. Criminologist Anthony

840
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:52,560
Speaker 1: Meoli says Lee reflected on this years later. The interesting

841
00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:56,839
Speaker 1: thing about the shootings, and this is really somewhat fascinating.

842
00:52:57,600 --> 00:53:00,120
Speaker 1: All the shots that were taken outside of the car,

843
00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:04,520
Speaker 1: we're done by Lee. So John purposely put Lee in

844
00:53:04,719 --> 00:53:07,640
Speaker 1: the view of the public when they already had a

845
00:53:07,719 --> 00:53:11,600
Speaker 1: sniper roost inside the caprice set up. All the shots

846
00:53:11,680 --> 00:53:14,680
Speaker 1: taken inside the car were done by John when he

847
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:17,880
Speaker 1: was fully covered and not able to be identified. If

848
00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:20,279
Speaker 1: anything was to be done where there was a chance

849
00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:24,080
Speaker 1: of getting caught or risk of getting shot at in

850
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:26,799
Speaker 1: the process, because it has happened several times, which robs

851
00:53:26,840 --> 00:53:28,560
Speaker 1: the one. They were armed and I got shot at

852
00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:32,080
Speaker 1: and I had to kill them in the process. He

853
00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:34,960
Speaker 1: was nowhere to be found. He was somewhere hiding in

854
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:37,520
Speaker 1: the DC shooting. There was anything to be done where

855
00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:41,560
Speaker 1: there was a major risk. If he was so caring

856
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:45,480
Speaker 1: about his son, so to say, why put Lee out

857
00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:48,000
Speaker 1: in a position where he was at such a risk.

858
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:52,000
Speaker 1: You know, the calls to the police are Lee void

859
00:53:52,120 --> 00:53:57,800
Speaker 1: Malvo's voice. So it's very interesting that John almost purposely

860
00:53:57,920 --> 00:54:01,640
Speaker 1: put Lee as the shoe and almost could have made

861
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:04,879
Speaker 1: a case for himself saying, well, this guy did all

862
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:08,240
Speaker 1: the shootings. It wasn't me. Here's his voice on tape.

863
00:54:08,719 --> 00:54:12,239
Speaker 1: Malvo's lawyers also felt that Mohammed may have just been

864
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:16,440
Speaker 1: using Malvo for the crimes. Lee was under this misbelief

865
00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:19,160
Speaker 1: that they're going to have this utopia, and John Mohammed

866
00:54:19,239 --> 00:54:20,640
Speaker 1: was saying, we're going to get the government to pay

867
00:54:20,719 --> 00:54:24,319
Speaker 1: for it. I mean, what person would rationally think that's

868
00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:27,240
Speaker 1: going to happen. But a kid who's indoctrinated, that's following

869
00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:30,040
Speaker 1: this leader believes it. I don't know what was gonna

870
00:54:30,040 --> 00:54:32,000
Speaker 1: happen in League after he got his kids back. I

871
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:34,560
Speaker 1: don't know, because Lee would then eventually realize there wasn't

872
00:54:34,640 --> 00:54:36,600
Speaker 1: this ten million dollars from the government that's going to

873
00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:39,400
Speaker 1: pay for this utopia. Maybe John Mohammed was going to

874
00:54:39,560 --> 00:54:45,160
Speaker 1: kill Lee with Mohammed God, all we have now is

875
00:54:45,239 --> 00:54:49,640
Speaker 1: Malvo story. When we began this season, a Supreme Court

876
00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:52,560
Speaker 1: case was set to decide whether Malvo would be eligible

877
00:54:52,600 --> 00:54:55,880
Speaker 1: for parole, but the question of whether Malvo deserves to

878
00:54:55,960 --> 00:54:58,920
Speaker 1: be in prison has gone from the theoretical to the

879
00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:03,520
Speaker 1: concrete due to recent developments that will discuss next episode

880
00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:07,840
Speaker 1: Lee Boyd Malvo could one day walk the streets again.

881
00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:13,640
Speaker 1: Malvo will be eligible for parole as early as two

882
00:55:18,440 --> 00:55:22,879
Speaker 1: next time on Monster d C Sniper. Obviously, our goal

883
00:55:23,080 --> 00:55:24,640
Speaker 1: is to do the best we can for him, and

884
00:55:24,719 --> 00:55:26,399
Speaker 1: you know what he wants. He wants to be out

885
00:55:26,520 --> 00:55:29,320
Speaker 1: and be able to live his life. I had dreams

886
00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:34,480
Speaker 1: at one point, I wanted to do great things. Lawyers

887
00:55:34,680 --> 00:55:37,759
Speaker 1: would argue that absent Mohammed, he wouldn't have committed these

888
00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:40,160
Speaker 1: crimes at all, and that what good is it to

889
00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:43,680
Speaker 1: warehouse him in a super max facility for the next

890
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:47,520
Speaker 1: sixty years. We end up always looking at these fantastic

891
00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:50,680
Speaker 1: cases like Malvo. That's not how most of these cases

892
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:54,440
Speaker 1: go down. Most of these cases are a heavy trigger finger,

893
00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:59,879
Speaker 1: an armed robbery gone bad, stupid stupid behavior that track

894
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:03,120
Speaker 1: agically results in a stupid, stupid outcome. I mean, you

895
00:56:03,160 --> 00:56:05,759
Speaker 1: could re sentence him all you want, it doesn't take

896
00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:09,600
Speaker 1: away from the fact that eight people at least will

897
00:56:09,719 --> 00:56:13,839
Speaker 1: never be brought back. At the time, I was thinking, well,

898
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:17,200
Speaker 1: he should be lack at forever and ever. Um Now

899
00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:19,919
Speaker 1: I'd like to kind of see whether or not he's

900
00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:28,320
Speaker 1: really changed. Monster DC Sniper is a fifteen episode podcast

901
00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:31,759
Speaker 1: hosted by Tony Harris and produced by iHeart Radio and

902
00:56:31,840 --> 00:56:36,240
Speaker 1: Tenderfoot TV. Matt Frederick and Alex Williams are executive producers

903
00:56:36,280 --> 00:56:39,839
Speaker 1: on behalf of I Heart Radio, alongside producers Trevor Young,

904
00:56:40,080 --> 00:56:44,040
Speaker 1: Ben Kiebrick, and Josh Thayne Payne. Lindsay and Donald Albright

905
00:56:44,120 --> 00:56:48,400
Speaker 1: are executive producers on behalf of Tenderfoot TV alongside producers

906
00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:53,240
Speaker 1: Meredith Steadman and Christina Dana. Original music is by Makeup

907
00:56:53,320 --> 00:56:56,560
Speaker 1: and Vanity Set. If you haven't already be sure to

908
00:56:56,640 --> 00:56:59,760
Speaker 1: check out the first two seasons, Atlanta Monster and Monster

909
00:56:59,880 --> 00:57:03,600
Speaker 1: the Zodiac Killer. If you have questions or comments, email

910
00:57:03,719 --> 00:57:07,600
Speaker 1: us at monster at iHeartMedia dot com, or you can

911
00:57:07,719 --> 00:57:11,560
Speaker 1: call us at one eight three three eight five six

912
00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:14,440
Speaker 1: six six seven. Thanks for listening.