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Speaker 1: All right, time now for front Office Unfiltered. We welcome

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Speaker 1: in once again Jim Bowden, who of course does a

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Speaker 1: great job I know, the analyst, insider, CBS Sports, the

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Speaker 1: Athletic and they'llly network radio Sirius XM, the Man of

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Speaker 1: Many hats, very very busy. All right, Jim, good to

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Speaker 1: be with you as always. Thanks for coming on. We

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Speaker 1: appreciate it. Hassan Kim's injury on the Braves. He's expected

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Speaker 1: to be out four to five months. They're replacing him

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Speaker 1: with Hodhe Matteo. What more do you make of this?

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Speaker 1: It's a tough break for the.

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Speaker 2: Braves, obviously, Alana. It's a big setback there for the Braves.

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Speaker 2: They committed twenty million dollars on a one year contract

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Speaker 2: to Kim to solve shortstop. They were very excited about

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Speaker 2: that being the last missing piece of how they kind

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Speaker 2: of viewed their team. And so obviously he has this injury,

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Speaker 2: going to be out for months and so for now,

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Speaker 2: mauriciod Bone Dubon will be the starting shortstop.

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Speaker 3: Initially, Yes, they did sign Hore Mitato or.

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Speaker 2: A one year, one million dollar deal to give them

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Speaker 2: some infield depth. He's got a lot of speak and

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Speaker 2: play a few positions. So that's how they're gonna at

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Speaker 2: least go into spring training. But we all have seen

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Speaker 2: the Braves president Alex Anthopolis. We know how aggressive he

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Speaker 2: can be, and so you know, look, I think he'll

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Speaker 2: look at his team during the spring. They'll make a

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Speaker 2: decision if they think Dubon can carry the load for

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Speaker 2: the first six weeks, eight weeks of the season, whatever

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Speaker 2: it's gonna be. And if not, we know what he'll do, right,

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Speaker 2: He'll call Cleveland, or he'll call Detroit, or he'll look

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Speaker 2: for another option at shortstop to bridge the gap until

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Speaker 2: Kim gets back. But obviously he has setback for Atlanta.

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Speaker 2: Not the way you want to start spring training.

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Speaker 4: Is there a situation where as GM, you would go, okay,

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Speaker 4: this is the date that it makes it too late

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Speaker 4: for us to be like, Okay, now we're gonna make

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Speaker 4: a move in the sense that he possibly could be

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Speaker 4: coming back mid to late May, depending on how he

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Speaker 4: heals from the injury or July. At this point when

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Speaker 4: you go, no, we need to we need to fill

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Speaker 4: this role with a true, proven big league shortstop and

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Speaker 4: not a stop gap.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, Yeah, if it's going to be half a season.

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Speaker 2: I need to get another option and then when Kim

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Speaker 2: comes back, Okay, I've got depth, I think, because it's

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Speaker 2: probably going to be six to eight weeks, you know

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Speaker 2: I can get by. But that being said, every GM

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Speaker 2: is going to look for a better option than the

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Speaker 2: option you have right now, regardless of who it is.

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Speaker 2: I'm not picking on Mauricio Dubon, who's a very good

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Speaker 2: extra player, but that's what he is. He's a guy

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Speaker 2: that you like to fill in for a couple of

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Speaker 2: weeks rather than a couple of months.

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Speaker 3: And so, you know, I think if you're Alex, you

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Speaker 3: know you're.

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Speaker 2: Going to keep looking out there, see what kind of

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Speaker 2: options are out there on the trade front during the spring,

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Speaker 2: and if you can pick up a better short stop,

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Speaker 2: someone in between Dubon and Kim, you're going to try

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Speaker 2: to do that.

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Speaker 5: Jim.

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Speaker 6: It sucks with the Braves. And we just talked about

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Speaker 6: Cody Bellinger. Have you heard anything on Cody Bellinger on

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Speaker 6: what his free I mean, we've heard all the stories

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Speaker 6: the Yankees don't a bidding or they've made their best offer.

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Speaker 6: Who else is out there? And what would the Yankees

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Speaker 6: possibly do if they lost Cody Bellinger.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they don't have a panic pivot like the Mets did, right.

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Speaker 2: I mean when the Mets lost out on Tucker, they

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Speaker 2: did the panic pivot and they overpaid Bobaschett by seventeen

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Speaker 2: million a year. Right, that option is not going to

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Speaker 2: be out there for the New York Yankees. So if

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Speaker 2: the Yankees lose out on Bellinger, Jason Dominguez and Spencer Jones,

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Speaker 2: they're going to get their shot. They're going to get

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Speaker 2: to compete in spring training, and one of them is

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Speaker 2: going to be the starting left field of the New

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Speaker 2: York Yankees come opening Day. That's clearly the plan that

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Speaker 2: New York has right now. But I still think it's

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Speaker 2: likely that Bellinger goes back. He's been offered five years,

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Speaker 2: one hundred and sixty million, with opt outs after years

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Speaker 2: two and three. My understanding is the Yankees are willing

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Speaker 2: to give a huge signing bonus as well.

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Speaker 3: I think the offer that the Yankees.

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Speaker 2: Have on the table is astronomical, especially when you look

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Speaker 2: at his six year history. You know, his history isn't

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Speaker 2: like Alonzo and Schwarber where it's clean. He's had good years,

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Speaker 2: he's had bad years, been inconsistent.

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Speaker 3: So I think this is a very good offer.

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Speaker 5: Now.

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Speaker 2: I understand that Scott Boris and the Boris Corporation and

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Speaker 2: Cody would prefer a seven year deal, so would everybody else.

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Speaker 2: Schwarber would have liked that too, so would have Pete Alonso.

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Speaker 2: But the market is what it is. I do not

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Speaker 2: believe there's a team in baseball that has offered Cody

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Speaker 2: Bellinger seven years. I don't think that's out there. I

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Speaker 2: don't think he's had an offer of six years. I

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Speaker 2: could be wrong. And the one thing we know about

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Speaker 2: the Boris Corporation, if the offer is out there, he'll

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Speaker 2: take it. He won't be afraid to take that offer

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Speaker 2: because he'd love to be able to go back to

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Speaker 2: the Yankees and say you wouldn't go seven? I found seven.

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Speaker 2: He loves doing that. That being said, I don't believe

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Speaker 2: the Mets are in outside of a short term aav

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Speaker 2: on him. Toronto is not in on him, The Dodgers

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Speaker 2: are not in on him. I don't know, honestly of

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Speaker 2: another team right now besides the two New York teams

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Speaker 2: that are an on Bellinger.

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Speaker 4: Looking at how the team's constructed and the fact that

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Speaker 4: they made a big push for Tucker, and I think

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Speaker 4: Bellinger's very much like, way more versatile than Tucker. Why

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Speaker 4: are the blue Jays not in on Cody Bellinger?

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Speaker 5: Do you think? You know?

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Speaker 2: I think it's the risk with how he's going to

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Speaker 2: age with the swing. I think it's the risk of

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Speaker 2: we saw him fail in Chicago and a year ago

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Speaker 2: the Cubs had to eat part of the contract in

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Speaker 2: order to trade him to the Yankees. They had to

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Speaker 2: eat it the Dodgers. He struggled there a couple of years,

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Speaker 2: they moved on from him. You know, I think that,

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Speaker 2: you know, Mark Shapiro, the president of the Blue Jays,

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Speaker 2: Ross afkns the GM looking at his history and saying,

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Speaker 2: you know, what is the risk if we were to

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Speaker 2: sign him long term?

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Speaker 3: What's the risk?

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Speaker 2: I think, quite frankly, the blue Jays kind of view

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Speaker 2: Kyle Tucker and Cody Bellinger's similar the way I do.

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Speaker 2: I would have been fine giving Kyle Tucker ten years

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Speaker 2: three point fifty like the Blue Jays offered. I kind

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Speaker 2: of feel like Bellinger's not that kind of player for me.

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Speaker 2: I think there's too much risk now. I love him defensively,

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Speaker 2: he can play all three outfield positions above average you

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Speaker 2: can play first base above average. I love the power.

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Speaker 2: I love this MVP season with the Dodgers. I love

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Speaker 2: this season last year with the Yankees. I loved one

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Speaker 2: of his seasons with the Cubs. But where was the rest?

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Speaker 2: And I know we're blaming injuries and we're blaming the pandemic,

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Speaker 2: but you know other players didn't have that problem of

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Speaker 2: lack of consistency. And I don't want to get stuck

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Speaker 2: on a seven, eight, nine, ten year deal on a

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Speaker 2: player that I don't think I can count on producing

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Speaker 2: most of those years.

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Speaker 1: Jim, Let's pivot now to pitching. Not a lot going on,

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Speaker 1: at least it doesn't seem very public going on with

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Speaker 1: fromber Valdez. How is he still out there? And where

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Speaker 1: do you see a landing spot for him?

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Speaker 5: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: I think Octagon has done a really good job of

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Speaker 2: keeping the negotiations of all das quiet, nothing leaking. I

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Speaker 2: actually like it. I think it's good for Framberg, to

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Speaker 2: be honest. The reason he's still out there is I

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Speaker 2: think when free agency started they were looking for a

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Speaker 2: six or seven year.

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Speaker 3: Deal for him.

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Speaker 2: He's not going to get that. He's thirty two years old.

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Speaker 2: I'm not sure he's gonna get year five. I think

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Speaker 2: he will get four years.

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Speaker 3: But you know, the.

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Speaker 2: Offers haven't been there like expected, and so when those

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Speaker 2: long term deals aren't there, the agents these days have

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Speaker 2: to take a deep breath and then figure out, Okay,

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Speaker 2: how short of a deal can I get? What are

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Speaker 2: the opt out clauses look like? Am I okay doing

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Speaker 2: a two year deal? Opting out and going back in

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Speaker 2: the market next year when I'm not tied to draft

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Speaker 2: pick compensation?

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Speaker 3: You know, you've you've got to be creative and.

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Speaker 2: Try to figure out the best way to handle this now,

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Speaker 2: you know, I know the Orioles have been in on

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Speaker 2: Framber Valdas the whole time. I've heard the Mets had

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Speaker 2: interest if it was a shorter term deal. I'm not

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Speaker 2: sure if Framber is there yet. But you know, besides that,

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Speaker 2: i've not heard Framber's name connected. I think it's I

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Speaker 2: think the Giants should be all over him, but I've

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Speaker 2: heard they're not because they don't want to spend that

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Speaker 2: kind of money towards pitching. So you know, besides that,

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Speaker 2: you know, I can't tell you. I still think the

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Speaker 2: best spot for him right now is the Orioles or

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Speaker 2: the METS. I think both teams need them if they

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Speaker 2: want us to cover that team in October either one

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Speaker 2: of them.

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Speaker 7: Nobody likes a bloated cell phone bill. It can consume you,

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Speaker 7: it can take over, it can be very annoying. So

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Speaker 7: I know that twenty twenty five ended Crafts and that's

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Speaker 7: when you have your end of your sales, but there

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Speaker 7: actually is still one sale that is running until the

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Speaker 7: end of the month.

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Speaker 4: Mid Mobile they still have their fifty percent off their

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Speaker 4: get and take advantage of it because it's not necessarily.

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Speaker 7: dollars for six months, or one hundred and eighty dollars

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Speaker 7: for twelve months. Plan required fifteen dollars per month equivalent

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Speaker 4: What's hurting his market more the draft pick compensation because

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Speaker 4: I felt like that was, you know, more than fifty

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Speaker 4: sixty million dollar range and he's clearly a nine figure

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Speaker 4: type of pitcher. Or is it the fact that a

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Speaker 4: guy like Freddy Peralta, who everybody probably views as a

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Speaker 4: better picture than him right now, is still technically out there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think everything factors in, right. I

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Speaker 2: think being thirty two years old factors in. I think

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Speaker 2: there are some analytic groups that don't like the hard

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Speaker 2: hit rate against Ramber, although it's mostly ground balls and

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Speaker 2: it doesn't worry me as long as you have a

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Speaker 2: really good defensive infield. I think some people are looking

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Speaker 2: at him and saying, you know, he used to be

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Speaker 2: a one, now he's a two, and so I want

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Speaker 2: to pay two prices, not one price. So I think

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Speaker 2: all of those things kind of factor in. You know,

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Speaker 2: what are the other options that are up there on

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Speaker 2: the market. That being said, you know, he's a difference maker.

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Speaker 2: He I think he could take a pretender and make

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Speaker 2: them into a contender.

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Speaker 3: So I think he'll find a home.

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Speaker 2: But I think we're going to find out it's going

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Speaker 2: to be one of those shorter term high aav with

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Speaker 2: opt outs.

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Speaker 5: Jim.

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Speaker 6: We just saw Ranger Suarez signed with the Red Sox.

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Speaker 6: The Red Sox done enough this offseason because you know,

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Speaker 6: Bregman was kind of the guy they thought. They flipped

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Speaker 6: and went, and they went Sunny Gray, they went Ranger Suarez.

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Speaker 6: They obviously have Garrett Crochet the back end of the bullpen.

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Speaker 6: They brought back Chapman. Do they have enough offense to

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Speaker 6: win this division with the way they've lined it up

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Speaker 6: with their pitching as strong as it is, A.

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Speaker 2: J my opinion is they need a second basement or

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Speaker 2: third baseman. They need one more bat. Obviously they wanted

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Speaker 2: to bring Bregman bat. They weren't going to play at

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Speaker 2: Bishette at the kind of numbers Bishett ended up with.

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Speaker 2: So I think that a player like you Henyo Suarez

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Speaker 2: makes sense for them if they can get him on

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Speaker 2: a shorter term deal. Power plays in that ballpark. Uh,

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Speaker 2: you know, he can hit six or seventh in the lineup.

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Speaker 2: And hit that occasional three run homer. I think that

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Speaker 2: makes sense. Circling back to Arizona to see if there's

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Speaker 2: another way to trade for kateel Marte is something that

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Speaker 2: makes sense for them as well. I know at some

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Speaker 2: point that Marcelo Meyer back. They like him very much,

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Speaker 2: but I think they need one more bat, whether it

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Speaker 2: be at second base or third base.

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Speaker 4: You've mentioned the Mets twice with shorter term higher A

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Speaker 4: A V. What is the what is that line for

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Speaker 4: the Mets in the sense that they're just gonna okay,

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Speaker 4: we're gonna stick with it, but at some point they're

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Speaker 4: gonna look up and go dag go on.

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Speaker 5: We're paying everybody forty million dollars a year. I get it.

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Speaker 4: We're rolling over like you know USC football. We just

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Speaker 4: roll roll over every player every other year and il money.

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Speaker 4: But what is what is that line? What is that

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Speaker 4: line for the Mets?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so for Steve Cohen, he has unlimited money.

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Speaker 2: He's the wealthiest owner in baseball, and look, if he

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Speaker 2: wants to take losses, he just he writes a check

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Speaker 2: and he can write it off against his hedge funds.

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Speaker 2: So I think he just do whatever he wants I mean,

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Speaker 2: we've heard the stories about him seeing a piece of

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Speaker 2: art for twenty million dollars and he decides he wants it,

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Speaker 2: he writes a check and it goes in front of

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Speaker 2: his house. He's doing the same thing with baseball players.

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Speaker 2: And look, I wish, you know, in my years as

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Speaker 2: a GM I wish I had an owner that was

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Speaker 2: willing to just give me a check book and say,

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Speaker 2: you know, go spend whatever you want. And forty seven

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Speaker 2: million for Bob Baschett, my goodness, gracious, but they got

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Speaker 2: the player, which was great. It was a great panic pivot,

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Speaker 2: I thought. And he was wondering what color smoke it was.

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Speaker 2: When he found out it was Dodger blue, he went, okay,

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Speaker 2: I'll go get Baschette.

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Speaker 6: Then wow, yeah, Uncle Stevie, he nails it all right.

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Speaker 6: So let's go to one of your old teams. You

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Speaker 6: have a picture of the guy over your shoulder. Elie

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Speaker 6: de la Cruz alleged he was offered the highest extension

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Speaker 6: of all time right for any Reds player, and he

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Speaker 6: hasn't accepted it yet. First of all, do you think

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Speaker 6: he should? And when you're as a front office member

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Speaker 6: approached a player, did you already think that, hey man,

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Speaker 6: this guy's going to accept this and save us money

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Speaker 6: and also set his family up. What's the deal with

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Speaker 6: the L extension?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, look, I think Nick Krawl and the

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Speaker 2: Reds did the right thing by offering him over a

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Speaker 2: quarter of a billion dollars and said, look, we want

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Speaker 2: you here, we want you to spend your career in Cincinnati.

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Speaker 3: I think you have to try to make that effort,

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Speaker 3: whether it works or doesn't work.

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Speaker 2: When you're represented by the Bors Corporation and you're a

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Speaker 2: position player, and you're young, and you have analysts telling

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Speaker 2: people that he has the talent to be a future

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Speaker 2: Hall of Famer, really tough to do a long term

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Speaker 2: deal because Scott Boris's long history is he will beat

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Speaker 2: it on the open market.

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Speaker 3: And I know when the.

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Speaker 2: Nationals offered Juan Soto four hundred and fifty million, he

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Speaker 2: turned it down and everybody laughed, and he ended up

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Speaker 2: three years later getting seven hundred and sixty five million.

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Speaker 2: So we made an extra three hundred and sixty five

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Speaker 2: million by saying, no Elie Day the Cruz is going

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Speaker 2: to do the same thing.

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Speaker 3: So I understand it, and you.

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Speaker 2: Know, it's pretty painful for a small market team like Cincinnati.

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Speaker 2: I think for them to have a chance to sign

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Speaker 2: him right now, you have to probably start the conversation

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Speaker 2: at three hundred and fifty million to start the conversation

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Speaker 2: to get it serious. I'm not sure Cincinnati's going to

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Speaker 2: do that in the marketplace. So again, this is a

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Speaker 2: talented kid. He hasn't reached his potential yet. We keep

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Speaker 2: waiting for that breakout year, which I think may happen

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Speaker 2: as soon as this year. It's going to be fun

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Speaker 2: to watch, but keep in mind it's going to be very,

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Speaker 2: very difficult for the Reds in this marketplace. When you're

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Speaker 2: seeing the kind of contracts. Kyle Tucker gets sixty million

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Speaker 2: a year, Bobaschek gets forty seven million a year, Showe

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Speaker 2: a Otani gets seventy million a year. It's really hard

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Speaker 2: to try to do these deals like the Braves did

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Speaker 2: once with Ronald Acuna Junior, because these young superstar as

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Speaker 2: seeing this kind of money out there, it just doesn't

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Speaker 2: make sense to give up the kind of hundreds of

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Speaker 2: millions you'll be given up if you sign.

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Speaker 1: Now, Jim, what did the Reds do? I mean, you

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Speaker 1: said they probably need to start at three hundred and

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Speaker 1: fifty million. I mean, is there a certain point where

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Speaker 1: they're like, what is the point because we know that

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Speaker 1: he's going to go to free agency and there's not

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Speaker 1: a dollar figure that we can do right now to

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Speaker 1: extend it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I mean, look, you've got to be realistic in these

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Speaker 2: small to midal markets. If we're if we're not going

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Speaker 2: to do a salary floor in a cap, if we're

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Speaker 2: not going to let half a baseball compete for a

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Speaker 2: world championship, if we've decided we're not going to do

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Speaker 2: that as a sport, which is okay, if that's what

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Speaker 2: they want to do. Then if you're the Reds, you

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Speaker 2: have to do what Tampa Bay does and Miami does.

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Speaker 3: And everybody else does. You've got to enjoy your.

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Speaker 2: First four years with the player, and then you've got

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Speaker 2: to call the Dodgers and the Yankees and the Mets

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Speaker 2: and the Phillies and the Red Sox and see what

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Speaker 2: you can get for a day. Look, cruise, and at

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Speaker 2: some point trade him. You don't want to wait to

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Speaker 2: the last year. You want to do it with at

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Speaker 2: least two years left so you get the most return

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Speaker 2: you possibly can. But that's gonna be the reality if

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Speaker 2: we don't fix this system.

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Speaker 4: Is he good enough for the three hundred and fifty potential? Yes,

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Speaker 4: but really a lot a lot of his analytic numbers

355
00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:24,640
Speaker 4: are propped up by a stolen basis. I get it,

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Speaker 4: he had the torn quad and the second half was

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Speaker 4: a business. First half was looking MVP ish if there

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Speaker 4: wasn't a show, Hey Otani in the league. But are

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Speaker 4: his numbers based on the fact that is his walk

360
00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:41,000
Speaker 4: rate is what it is and a strikeout rate is astronomical?

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Speaker 5: Is he what do you feel.

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Speaker 4: Like his value is based on how he has done,

363
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Speaker 4: not what he could do?

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Speaker 3: Well, that's a great question.

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Speaker 2: I think the value is probably pretty close to what

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Speaker 2: the Reds offered him, which is why they tried to

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Speaker 2: get it done at two hundred and fifty million dollar range.

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Speaker 2: I think that's probably when you look at it, that

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Speaker 2: would make sense on a ten year deal right now. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: the potential is that you know, by the time he

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Speaker 2: gets to the open market, he could be somewhere between

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Speaker 2: Kyle Tucker and Vladimir Guerrero Junior. I think that's realistic.

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Speaker 2: But he's not there yet and you've got to see

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Speaker 2: the development. So yeah, and there's lots of risk in this.

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Speaker 2: And remember, three hundred and fifty million today is going

376
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Speaker 2: to be six hundred million when he gets to free

377
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Speaker 2: agency in five years based on history.

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Speaker 6: Jim, we mentioned Shorver buying Shorver and the Reds and

379
00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:35,879
Speaker 6: they had three hundred million to try to give him.

380
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Speaker 5: Where did that money go?

381
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Speaker 6: Like, I know they tried to get it to Ellie

382
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Speaker 6: and listen, it's a great pr move also by the Reds.

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Speaker 5: Let's not forget that.

384
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Speaker 6: And Scott Morris has never had a client turned down

385
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Speaker 6: one hundred million dollar offer and then not gotten a

386
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Speaker 6: more so, let's a position player. So let's also that's

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Speaker 6: why one of the reasons why you said that he

388
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Speaker 6: won't turn he won't accept it, is because he has

389
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Speaker 6: a history of getting him way more Like you said, so, well,

390
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Speaker 6: where did that money go for the red As the

391
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Speaker 6: Reds say, hey, we offered Ellie the highest EXTENSI ever.

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Speaker 6: Oh he didn't take it. We tried. It's a great,

393
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Speaker 6: great move, especially they just had Reds Fest this weekend.

394
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Speaker 6: I mean, everyone's like, well, now they're like, Elie take

395
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Speaker 6: the offer, right, But where did the three hundred million

396
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Speaker 6: they had for Schwarbur go and they said, oh, it

397
00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:15,719
Speaker 6: was just for that one player. Where does it go?

398
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's a great question. Aja.

399
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Speaker 2: I asked the same thing of the Reds. You know,

400
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Speaker 2: as soon as they lost out on Schwarber, before the

401
00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:27,479
Speaker 2: Orioles quickly signed Alonzo, I was at the winter meetings

402
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Speaker 2: and I text the Reds and I said, why not

403
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Speaker 2: just pivot and go get Alonzo right now? Like immediately,

404
00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:34,000
Speaker 2: just take the same money he had for Schwarbur and

405
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Speaker 2: put for the Alonzo. The way they viewed Schwarber's and

406
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Speaker 2: tangibles were such exception. They felt like what he would

407
00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:47,159
Speaker 2: bring to their clubhouse and locker room was such a

408
00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:51,640
Speaker 2: difference maker that they wanted to extend for him. They

409
00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:56,399
Speaker 2: didn't view other players on the open market similarly and

410
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Speaker 2: so that's that was their view, but ended up being

411
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Speaker 2: the intangibles there. Do they have money if they needed

412
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Speaker 2: to to commit thirty million.

413
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Speaker 5: To a player.

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Speaker 2: The answer to that is yes, they haven't done it.

415
00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:11,960
Speaker 2: I think if the right player were to come along,

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Speaker 2: I think again, I think they would go back to

417
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Speaker 2: the well and try to do that. But to do Schwarber,

418
00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:20,720
Speaker 2: they weren't really going to add to their budget. They

419
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Speaker 2: were just going to take their budget and instead of

420
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Speaker 2: spreading it out among two or three players, give it

421
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Speaker 2: to Schwarber. And remember this about the Reds and try

422
00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:32,879
Speaker 2: not to smile or laugh. They paid Nick Martinez twenty

423
00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:36,680
Speaker 2: million last year to be a six starter and long reliever.

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Speaker 3: They gave him the qualifying offer and accepted it.

425
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Speaker 2: So they were taking Nick Martinez as twenty to put

426
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Speaker 2: towards Swarbur.

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Speaker 1: I want to ask you if you think that the

428
00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:51,800
Speaker 1: way that the free agents or players are looking at

429
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Speaker 1: things now, Jim has shifted from back in the day

430
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Speaker 1: when you would take the guaranteed money as a young

431
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Speaker 1: player versus what these the high end of these free

432
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Speaker 1: agency contracts are now. I mean, the eyes I would

433
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Speaker 1: imagine are really big with some of like an Elie

434
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Speaker 1: de la Cruz saying what some of these contracts have

435
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Speaker 1: amounted to. Has that shifted and changed the dynamic of

436
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Speaker 1: how these young players are going out going about it?

437
00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:16,160
Speaker 5: Oh?

438
00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:16,880
Speaker 3: Absolutely.

439
00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:19,920
Speaker 2: If I'm a young player and I'm looking at the marketplace,

440
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:22,480
Speaker 2: I mean I don't even have to play into my

441
00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:24,920
Speaker 2: mid or late thirties anymore. If you're going to pay

442
00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:28,920
Speaker 2: me sixty to seventy million dollars a year. Just give

443
00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:31,160
Speaker 2: me five years in my prime and I'll have enough

444
00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:33,840
Speaker 2: money if I want to retire or do something else.

445
00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:37,679
Speaker 2: And doing long term deals, you know, we're seeing a

446
00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:40,760
Speaker 2: lot of players that did the long term deals and

447
00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:43,159
Speaker 2: those players are losing out.

448
00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:44,719
Speaker 3: It's just the way it is.

449
00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:47,600
Speaker 2: I mean, Ronal Kuney Junior and Guerrero came up the

450
00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:51,720
Speaker 2: same time. One guy's getting paid five hundred million, the

451
00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:55,240
Speaker 2: other players not getting paid relatively speaking. So I think

452
00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:58,879
Speaker 2: when you continually watch who does better, I think the

453
00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:01,879
Speaker 2: young players with advice from the agents are saying, you know,

454
00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:05,160
Speaker 2: we're better off waiting unless somebody wants to overpay.

455
00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:06,120
Speaker 3: And that's why in.

456
00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:07,840
Speaker 2: Ellie Daily Cruz, all he has to do is look

457
00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:10,880
Speaker 2: at Juan Soto and look at Guerrero and say do

458
00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:13,320
Speaker 2: I want to get that result or do I want

459
00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:16,199
Speaker 2: to get what Acuna ended up getting in Atlanta. It

460
00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:18,120
Speaker 2: makes it pretty easy to make that decision.

461
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:23,159
Speaker 1: Jim Hall of Fame, voting tomorrow, what do you think

462
00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:23,800
Speaker 1: gets in?

463
00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:28,080
Speaker 2: Well, Carlos Beltron's going to get in, So that's great

464
00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:28,880
Speaker 2: news for him.

465
00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:30,720
Speaker 3: I mean, what an incredible career you have.

466
00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:33,680
Speaker 2: But the guy that I've been pushing all these years

467
00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,040
Speaker 2: that hasn't gotten in is Andrew Jones, and I'm just

468
00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:38,080
Speaker 2: praying he gets in.

469
00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:40,840
Speaker 3: It's going to be close. I think it could go

470
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:42,240
Speaker 3: either way based.

471
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:44,639
Speaker 2: On what I'm hearing in terms of the voting. But

472
00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:49,120
Speaker 2: Andrew Jones was the best defensive center fielder I've ever

473
00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:52,399
Speaker 2: seen in my life, and it's not close. And I

474
00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:55,439
Speaker 2: asked the late Frank Robinson, who was a manager for

475
00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:58,000
Speaker 2: me when I was the GM of the Washington Nationals.

476
00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,320
Speaker 2: I asked Frank, who is what the greatest defensive center

477
00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:05,320
Speaker 2: fielder you ever saw? And he said, Andrew Jones is

478
00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:08,640
Speaker 2: one A and Willie Mays is one B. And by

479
00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:12,080
Speaker 2: the way, Andrew Jones has one less home run than

480
00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:16,000
Speaker 2: Carlos Beltron. Both of these players deserve to get in.

481
00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:19,560
Speaker 2: I hope tomorrow we can celebrate both center fielders.

482
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:20,840
Speaker 3: And by the way, I.

483
00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:23,760
Speaker 2: Hope all the people that voted, I hope they spent

484
00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:28,879
Speaker 2: the time to ask John Schoreholtz, Bobby Cox, John Smoltz,

485
00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:35,760
Speaker 2: Tom Glavin, Chipper, Jones, David Justice, Fred McGriff, and any

486
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:38,359
Speaker 2: other Atlanta Brave that watched him play. I hope they

487
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,400
Speaker 2: spent the time to ask the visiting managers and gms

488
00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:44,280
Speaker 2: that were in the National League during the ten years

489
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:48,199
Speaker 2: that Andrew Jones won ten consecutive Gold Glove Awards. I

490
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:51,320
Speaker 2: hope they asked those people if Andrew Jones is a

491
00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:54,359
Speaker 2: Hall of Famer, because all of them would say yes.

492
00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:57,119
Speaker 2: And it's a shame he isn't already in. But you

493
00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:59,640
Speaker 2: know what, as long as he gets in this year,

494
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:02,760
Speaker 2: it'll be okay. So hopefully the voters did the right thing,

495
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:06,960
Speaker 2: and hopefully tomorrow on foul Territory, you guys will be

496
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:09,240
Speaker 2: announcing beltront and Andrew Jones.

497
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:13,120
Speaker 6: I hope so Jim. I got to play with Andrew

498
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:14,680
Speaker 6: and he was a great guy.

499
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:15,080
Speaker 5: He's fun.

500
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:17,760
Speaker 6: Do you think I have two questions on Andrew Jones? One,

501
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:21,280
Speaker 6: do you think that the end of his career hurt him?

502
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:23,159
Speaker 6: And that's why it's taken so long because he was

503
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:25,400
Speaker 6: so spectacular for those ten years and then he kind

504
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:27,000
Speaker 6: of just fell off a cliff And I played with

505
00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:29,159
Speaker 6: him at the end with the White Sox and he

506
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:31,639
Speaker 6: was a shell of himself with other injuries. Do you

507
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:33,639
Speaker 6: think that hurt him? And then my next argument is,

508
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:36,080
Speaker 6: look at Tory Hunter's numbers. How come he's not getting

509
00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:38,600
Speaker 6: more love? He has I think nine gold gloves instead

510
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:40,600
Speaker 6: of ten, right, and he has a lot of bet

511
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:43,480
Speaker 6: numbers that are better in a lot of other categories

512
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,240
Speaker 6: except for you know, I think home runs he's like

513
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:48,120
Speaker 6: a few behind. But other than that, they're all similar.

514
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:50,280
Speaker 6: But Torri gets no love and he was the best

515
00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:53,240
Speaker 6: center fielder that I ever saw on a consistent basis.

516
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:55,159
Speaker 6: Obviously I'm biased because I played with him in the

517
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:57,200
Speaker 6: minor leagues and came up with him, but he gets

518
00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:59,880
Speaker 6: like no love and his numbers are across the board

519
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:01,840
Speaker 6: very similar to what Andrew Jones did.

520
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:02,920
Speaker 3: Yeah.

521
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:06,200
Speaker 2: So, in terms of Andrew Jones, absolutely his career once

522
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:09,520
Speaker 2: he left Atlanta, whether it was Dodgers, White Sox, Yankees

523
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:12,800
Speaker 2: hurt his career and he kept playing, right, there was

524
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 2: like a five year period after that. He had ten

525
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,280
Speaker 2: years where he was a Hall of Famer and then

526
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:21,240
Speaker 2: he absolutely fell off and that was it. And I

527
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:23,920
Speaker 2: think those five years hurt him. I think a lot

528
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:27,879
Speaker 2: of the young writers that joined later saw those five

529
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 2: years and that's what's in their mind. Unfortunately, I think

530
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:36,040
Speaker 2: the analytic and stat people end up looking at all

531
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:39,240
Speaker 2: the statistics, whereas if you just look at the ten

532
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:43,200
Speaker 2: years in Atlanta a ten year period. There is no

533
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:45,359
Speaker 2: doubt he was a Hall of Fame player, and I

534
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:47,879
Speaker 2: believe that he should be voted based on that. With

535
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:51,320
Speaker 2: Tory Hunter, I can't give you the right answer, to

536
00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 2: be honest, because I spent practically my entire career in

537
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 2: the National League, and those were all the games that

538
00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:00,920
Speaker 2: I saw in person. I certainly loved what Tory Hunter

539
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 2: on the screen. I don't disagree with the stats and

540
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:08,159
Speaker 2: numbers that you're throwing out there just for me, you know.

541
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:10,720
Speaker 2: I like the people that vote on the guys that

542
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:14,400
Speaker 2: saw them with their own eyeballs during that same time period.

543
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:18,640
Speaker 2: And my seventeen years as a GM, all seventeen were

544
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 2: in National.

545
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 3: League ballparks, you know, And so I don't.

546
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 2: Feel that I can give a good opinion on Tory

547
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:28,120
Speaker 2: Hunter like I can on the guys that were playing

548
00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:28,920
Speaker 2: in the National League.

549
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 1: Jim, as always, we appreciate the insight, look forward to

550
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 1: seeing who gets in tomorrow. We'll be right back and

551
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:37,200
Speaker 1: thank you very much. She'll see you soon.

552
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 3: Thanks, guys, All.

553
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:42,119
Speaker 1: Right, welcome you back to Hot Corner as the Hour

554
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:46,919
Speaker 1: number two starts here on foul Territory. AJ Pruzinski, Eric

555
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 1: Kratzelonaizzo in for Scott Braun. Okay, let's talk about the

556
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 1: fact that I'm not just doing this because I'm on

557
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,119
Speaker 1: the show. This was in the rundown before I was hosting,

558
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 1: so I don't want to hear it. Eric, don't hate

559
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:03,880
Speaker 1: on the Dodgers for perfecting an imperfect system. Tyler Kepner

560
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:08,199
Speaker 1: wrote something in The New York Times recently about, you

561
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 1: know what, they're doing a good job of spending money, obviously,

562
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,439
Speaker 1: but we've talked about it at length. Aj other teams

563
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 1: can do it, so why aren't they.

564
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 6: I don't hate the Dodgers at all. If I'm a player,

565
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 6: I love it. And it's a destination place and they

566
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:27,800
Speaker 6: get all the money you can because no one complains

567
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,359
Speaker 6: on the Mets go out and signed Boba. Shit, they

568
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:31,920
Speaker 6: didn't know, and it was like, oh no, the Mets

569
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 6: are ruining baseball. It's just because the Dodgers have won

570
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 6: and they figured it out, and they have great leadership,

571
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:39,160
Speaker 6: and they have unbelievable talent, and they also figured out

572
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:41,520
Speaker 6: a way to draft guys that are not in the

573
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:43,440
Speaker 6: top because they lose all their draft picks every year

574
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,200
Speaker 6: and they still have players. But you know, marching through

575
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:48,440
Speaker 6: their system that they can use. So they've done a

576
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 6: lot of great things. What they have done is they've

577
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:53,480
Speaker 6: reinvested the money not only in players that they make,

578
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:57,920
Speaker 6: in infrastructure, in development and talent, in finding talent and

579
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,199
Speaker 6: finding ways to win on the margins. You get a

580
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,880
Speaker 6: great president of baseball ops and Andrew Freeman, you get Brandon Gomes,

581
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:06,440
Speaker 6: and then you give them money. This is what you

582
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:08,480
Speaker 6: can get, and they go out and make these deals.

583
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 6: Now a lot of them are deferred, and everyone's saying, oh,

584
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 6: it's deferred money. Why Look how many people have deferred contracts. Okay,

585
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:18,200
Speaker 6: the Orioles are paying Chris Davis for like fifteen more

586
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 6: years on that contract.

587
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 5: It's all deferred.

588
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:22,679
Speaker 6: Okay, the Dodgers aren't the only one that does. Is

589
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:24,359
Speaker 6: just because they win that people are mad?

590
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:28,119
Speaker 1: Eric, what do you make of this? Tyler Kuttner continues

591
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:30,480
Speaker 1: in the article that the Dodgers have adapted by de

592
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:34,679
Speaker 1: emphasizing the regular season and building such a deep roster

593
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 1: that they basically cannot miss the playoffs. I believe that,

594
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 1: because I do believe the Dodgers are built for October.

595
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:44,439
Speaker 1: It's almost as if they assume that they're going to

596
00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 1: get there, and they're just worried about making sure that

597
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 1: roster gets them to that point.

598
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:51,120
Speaker 5: I think they've done a great job.

599
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 4: I think whether they set out to make their starting

600
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 4: rotation ten pitchers deep, No, I don't think they started

601
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 4: out doing that, because I think they set there and

602
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 4: they won the World Series in twenty four with just

603
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:10,679
Speaker 4: a bullpen. Then they go, we don't want to do

604
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:11,160
Speaker 4: that again.

605
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 5: That was risky.

606
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,440
Speaker 4: They were almost eliminated by the Padres, so I think

607
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:17,239
Speaker 4: they then set out and they were like, Okay, what

608
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,160
Speaker 4: is the depth that we need. Obviously Roki didn't want

609
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:23,399
Speaker 4: to go anywhere else, so that added another piece of depth.

610
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:27,920
Speaker 4: I think they've perfected it in so many different ways.

611
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 4: But the part I want to hit on is what

612
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:33,200
Speaker 4: AJ said. So many teams don't want to sign players

613
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 4: one people will say, oh, well, they don't have money.

614
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 4: And I spent an entire weekend getting roasted on Twitter

615
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 4: for congratulating the Dodgers for what they did, which I

616
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 4: think was awesome, not just for them, but I think

617
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 4: it raises the competition level. But got roasted for that,

618
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 4: so I won't go that way. To me, It's what

619
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 4: AJ said. About the draft. All these teams we just

620
00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 4: talked about what fran Bervaldez at draft pickcom compensation. It's

621
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 4: it's tied to them. You know, they don't they don't

622
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 4: want to sign somebody because it draft pick compensation. Like

623
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 4: they're losing so many of their picks because one they're

624
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 4: finishing in first place, so they're picking way late in

625
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 4: the draft. Two they're signing some of these free agents.

626
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 4: And you have to remember, not everybody, not everybody that

627
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 4: they've signed was this massive show hey deal, show Hey's

628
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 4: just the best player in the planet and he wanted

629
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 4: to go where he was gonna be taken care of.

630
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 4: But all these draft picks that they lose, they're still

631
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:39,240
Speaker 4: creating an incredible minor league system. So is that because

632
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 4: they have all the money. Is that because they're buying

633
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 4: all their prospects. No, they're doing it to supplement a

634
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 4: big league team that Yes, the TV deal that you

635
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 4: know happened with them of courts and all that stuff. Yes,

636
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 4: they're able to pocket extra money all that stuff.

637
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 5: I get it.

638
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 4: But there's an advantage to what the Dodgers are doing

639
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 4: that is not just us in free agency. But now

640
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 4: it's coming to fruition in free agency because they made

641
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 4: that push for certain players a certain culture, and they've

642
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 4: been able to back it with depth from their minor

643
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 4: leagues and back it with the fact that they've been

644
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 4: able to go get pitchers. I mean they traded for

645
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 4: Tyler Glass now. The rest of the league said, you

646
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 4: know what, Tyler Glass now is a injury prone pitcher.

647
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:30,440
Speaker 4: Obvious he threw in the postseason for him. So like

648
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 4: there's things that they're doing that other teams can do.

649
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 4: They just have a larger margin for air with it.

650
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 1: And I want to give credit to the Toronto Blue

651
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:41,520
Speaker 1: Jays who have had a very good offseason AJ and

652
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:43,920
Speaker 1: they are spending money and it's good to see. And

653
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 1: they were a strike away from winning the World Series

654
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 1: last year obviously Game seven against the Los Angeles Daughters.

655
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 3: So good, this far away a couple of.

656
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 6: Bigger team win having.

657
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 1: And that's what I've That's what I always say that,

658
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 1: you know, having spending money guarantees that you get good players.

659
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:08,480
Speaker 1: Spending money typically guarantees that you have a postseason birth

660
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 1: or you have an opportunity to play in the postseason.

661
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 1: But spending money does not guarantee championships. But the Baltimore

662
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 1: or excuse me, the Toronto Blue Jays are starting to

663
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,480
Speaker 1: spend some It's like some real money here are they

664
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 1: kind of taking a page out of the Dodgers' book

665
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 1: where they two aj are building for the postseason.

666
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 6: Well, they learned last year how deep their starting rotation was.

667
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:31,960
Speaker 5: Look at it.

668
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 6: All the guys that they used, They traded for Bieber

669
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:36,760
Speaker 6: when he was hurt, the Headshers or Gosman, the Savage

670
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 6: came up. They used all these guys. Lower was a guy,

671
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 6: a factor formed during the regular season. Then they got

672
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 6: to the postseason and said, okay, we can throw Bassett

673
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,719
Speaker 6: in the bullpen, right and he was great for him

674
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 6: out of the bullpen every day, Louis Varland was out

675
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 6: there chucking one hundred miles an hour every day. They

676
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 6: built depth, right, And that's what the Blue Jays, that's

677
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 6: what other teams are learning from the Dodgers is it's

678
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 6: cool to have five starters, but it's cooler to have

679
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 6: ten starters he can count on because you can use

680
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,719
Speaker 6: them in different roles and use them to do different things.

681
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 6: The Dodgers did have done that. Now other teams are

682
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 6: falling toit. It's a copycat lead, and now other teams

683
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 6: are like, man, if we have ten starters, look at

684
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 6: all those things we can do, and if we believe

685
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:16,680
Speaker 6: we're good enough to get to the postseason, then they

686
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 6: can help us make a run deep into the postseason.

687
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:20,720
Speaker 6: So yeah, I think what the Blue Jays is doing

688
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 6: is awesome because you know what they did. They made

689
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 6: a crapload of money in the postseason by going to

690
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 6: Game seven, and they're reinvesting it back into their team.

691
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:30,360
Speaker 6: They just put a new They've done a new spring

692
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 6: training site and didn't They've redone the locker rooms in

693
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 6: the Rogers Center. They've done all these things and then

694
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 6: they get the results and then they throw the money

695
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 6: back into the product.

696
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:41,240
Speaker 5: It's awesome by the Blue Jays ownership.

697
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:45,720
Speaker 4: We roasted, We roasted. I roasted the Blue Jays more

698
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 4: because of what ross Akins did or did not do,

699
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 4: Shapiro did or did not do to bolster a team

700
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 4: that I felt like should have been in the playoffs

701
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 4: the last few years. Now you see what came to fruition,

702
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:00,480
Speaker 4: but what AJ said about the minor league system, they

703
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 4: made those changes. I was drafted in two thousand and

704
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:05,520
Speaker 4: two by the Blue Jays. They redid their minor league

705
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 4: complex in two thousand and two. My last year in

706
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 4: baseball was twenty twenty. They were redoing their minor league complex.

707
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 4: There's still some minor league complexes that have not changed

708
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 4: since the day I was drafted.

709
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 5: And the Blue Jays. Yes they made the World Series.

710
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 4: Yes they were inches away, strike away several times in

711
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 4: Game seven, but that started years before that started because

712
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 4: they're trying to build that infrastructure, which if you're saying

713
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 4: we want to emulate the Dodgers, yes they're spending this year.

714
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 5: Yes they've been spending.

715
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 4: They got George Springer, they putting money into Vladimir Guerrero,

716
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 4: all that stuff, But it happens in that infrastructure years back.

717
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 4: I remember when I was playing in Triple A. I've

718
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:53,000
Speaker 4: said this before. We'd come into a clubhouse that the

719
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 4: Dodgers Triple A team just left, and they're like bringing

720
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 4: all the candy bars back out. They're bringing out all

721
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 4: the unhealthy food. I'm like, why are you guys bringing

722
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 4: all this in? They're like, oh, well, the Dodgers came

723
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 4: in and they make us clear all the food out

724
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:09,399
Speaker 4: and they bring in their own food and they feed

725
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 4: the players all in their own The Dodgers did all

726
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 4: of that. Dodgers did all of that way before the

727
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:19,719
Speaker 4: mandatory minor league food was a thing. And people might

728
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:22,720
Speaker 4: say that doesn't give you show heo Tani.

729
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:23,319
Speaker 5: I get that.

730
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:25,760
Speaker 4: I hear all the arguments, but you know what it does.

731
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:28,920
Speaker 4: It builds a little bit of a It starts a

732
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:32,400
Speaker 4: spark that builds a bigger fire that has what is

733
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:36,600
Speaker 4: now burning in the furnace of the Dodgers, And it's

734
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:39,360
Speaker 4: all part of it. Is it a small portion for

735
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:42,600
Speaker 4: people who say, salary cap all this stuff, it's unfair

736
00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:45,400
Speaker 4: other teams, Yeah, they say that's a small portion for

737
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 4: people who have been in those situations and come up

738
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 4: through minor league systems and seeing how teams are really built.

739
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,560
Speaker 4: To me, that's a huge, huge part of why they

740
00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:59,839
Speaker 4: are what they are. And now Kyle Tucker is going

741
00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:03,319
Speaker 4: to say, I'll take ninety less million dollars to go

742
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 4: there because it's a better fit for me. I like

743
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 4: the place. I'm going to get more of my money

744
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:13,160
Speaker 4: up front. All that stuff. So it's not a chicken

745
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:16,480
Speaker 4: or the egg. It's the first thing that happened was

746
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:19,239
Speaker 4: the egg, and then you had a chicken, and now

747
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 4: they have tons of chickens.

748
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:22,360
Speaker 5: And look at all those chickens.

749
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:26,879
Speaker 1: Look at all those chickens. Aj don't you want that

750
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 1: as a player, Don't you want a team that is

751
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 1: going to be so on top of every single detail

752
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:36,399
Speaker 1: and take care of its players as if they are

753
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 1: a prize commodity, as if they are precious cargo. That

754
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:42,880
Speaker 1: I mean, it only makes sense that if you treat

755
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 1: the player well, you're going to make more money.

756
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:50,799
Speaker 6: That's just make it a destination. Players want to come there, right.

757
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:52,759
Speaker 6: And by the way, the food thing was because Gabe

758
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:54,920
Speaker 6: Kapler was in charge of the minor league, so he

759
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:58,520
Speaker 6: he also was still playing. He never eat cheese or anything,

760
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 6: so he had to do that to everyone else.

761
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:01,279
Speaker 5: Hunt to the best.

762
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 6: We were when all this stuff started happening. Ozzie Game

763
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:06,840
Speaker 6: was still our manager. We went into some of the

764
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:08,919
Speaker 6: places where they took the cookies and the ice cream

765
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:10,839
Speaker 6: and all that way. Ozzie made him bring it all

766
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:12,680
Speaker 6: back out and he's like, my players need to drink

767
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 6: beer and eat ice cream, and I like both. So

768
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 6: we're gonna have alcohol and we're gonna have ice cream

769
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:19,960
Speaker 6: and snacks. If a guy wants to eat a candy

770
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:21,759
Speaker 6: bar and he's thirty five years old.

771
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 5: Let the man eat a.

772
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:25,279
Speaker 6: Candy bar, and so that's how he kind of that's

773
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:27,239
Speaker 6: how we I mean, I kind of get that too.

774
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:29,279
Speaker 1: I get that too. I think you have the options, though,

775
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:32,080
Speaker 1: I mean not all Major league teams are created equally,

776
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:34,400
Speaker 1: and what I mean by that is not necessarily the

777
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 1: spending or the lack of wanting to spend by owners.

778
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:40,759
Speaker 1: But I'll never forget there's been times when guys have

779
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 1: you know, come over in trade, you know, even within

780
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:46,239
Speaker 1: the division. And you know, I think I've told this

781
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:48,720
Speaker 1: story on here before, but I remember when Aj Pollock

782
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 1: came over in a trade from the Arizona Diamondbacks to

783
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:53,840
Speaker 1: the Los Angeles Dodgers at spring training and Camelback So

784
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:57,319
Speaker 1: we basically went from Scottsdale to to Camelback Ranch. You know,

785
00:36:57,440 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 1: all of the outfielders were lined up in a certain

786
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:04,080
Speaker 1: area in the Dodgers clubhouse, and Jock Peterson looked at Aj,

787
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 1: who had been in the big leagues for quite some time,

788
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:08,040
Speaker 1: obviously played at Notre Dame and then was in the

789
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 1: big leagues for some time, and he goes, welcome to

790
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,600
Speaker 1: the big leagues. Because it's just a different that the

791
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 1: Dodgers just treat their players differently, and they just go

792
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 1: about their business differently. Eric, let me ask you this,

793
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 1: as a player, are you for it when you're on

794
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:24,359
Speaker 1: one of those teams that don't spend and can't win.

795
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 1: I mean, I would imagine that that motivation is taken

796
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 1: away from you very early in the season, Like, what's

797
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:30,759
Speaker 1: the point? What are you playing for?

798
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:32,880
Speaker 5: As a player?

799
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 3: Yeah?

800
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 5: Player.

801
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:37,480
Speaker 4: That's why I think I've gotten eviscerated for saying what

802
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:42,360
Speaker 4: I said about the Dodgers being good for baseball, elevating competition.

803
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:44,880
Speaker 4: People are like, what is this high school?

804
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:45,440
Speaker 5: Like?

805
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 4: You know, you're trying to explain to us about competition

806
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 4: as a player. I promise you I could care less

807
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:56,360
Speaker 4: who was on other teams. Would you go into places

808
00:37:56,360 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 4: and go holy crap? Like the in two thousand, I

809
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:04,960
Speaker 4: forget when the tires late two thousands, I'm like, what

810
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:09,439
Speaker 4: the heck? Like They've got Pudge Rodriguez, they got mag

811
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 4: le or Adonias, they had Maggie Cabrera, they had Justin Verlander.

812
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 4: Joel Zumaya animal saying like I remember thinking, holy crap,

813
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 4: this is a freaking really good team AJ played against

814
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 4: him the whole time. But as a player, you're not

815
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 4: sitting there going we got no chance. If you are,

816
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 4: I don't, I your career is going to be super

817
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:34,239
Speaker 4: short because I played with people who who said that, like,

818
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:36,680
Speaker 4: oh man, whatever, man, like I guess we got no

819
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:41,320
Speaker 4: shot to me. That's tired. As a player, you cannot

820
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 4: think that way.

821
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:44,280
Speaker 5: Listen.

822
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:46,440
Speaker 6: I played for the Twins. I came up with the

823
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:50,840
Speaker 6: Minnesota Twins. The Minnesota Twins time we played in the Metrodome,

824
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 6: and the team that was in our division that was.

825
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 5: So good Indians.

826
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 6: They had Jim Tomy, Roberto Alomar. You know they've been

827
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:00,480
Speaker 6: going to the World Series. I'll never get and spring

828
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 6: training in two thousand and one because my first time

829
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:05,360
Speaker 6: when I was going to break camp as a starting catcher,

830
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 6: I had a reporter come up to me and he said,

831
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 6: what do you think of this payroll disparity? And you

832
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 6: guys are small market and you guys can't compete. And

833
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:15,280
Speaker 6: I looked at him and said, who said we can't compete?

834
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:18,359
Speaker 6: And I said, we in this clubhouse have never said it.

835
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 6: I never looked at it and said we can't compete

836
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:22,520
Speaker 6: with these guys because as a player, you think you're

837
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 6: one of the best players in the world, and when

838
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:26,480
Speaker 6: you take that field, you can make your team better

839
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:29,680
Speaker 6: and you can compete with anyone. Now, we didn't win

840
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:32,440
Speaker 6: the division that year. We wanted the next bunch of years.

841
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 6: The Twins won of for how many every years in

842
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:35,120
Speaker 6: a row for.

843
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:37,160
Speaker 5: A long time. It made the playoffs.

844
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 6: But we never looked at it like we can't win

845
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:42,680
Speaker 6: this division because the big bad Indians are in it.

846
00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 6: The White Sox are, you know, with a bigger payroll. Right,

847
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 6: We were like, we're the Twins, We're really good players,

848
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:49,399
Speaker 6: We're a really good team. We believe in each other

849
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 6: and we can figure it out.

850
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 5: And we did.

851
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:52,120
Speaker 3: So.

852
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:54,640
Speaker 6: I agree with Chrats like you never as a player say, oh, man,

853
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:56,719
Speaker 6: look at what they're doing. Oh we can't compete, but

854
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 6: there's no way we can compete. We're always always like

855
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:01,760
Speaker 6: I can compete. I've played on some really bad teams

856
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 6: and the Braves at the end of my career, but

857
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:05,880
Speaker 6: going into the season, I'm like, ah, if things fall right,

858
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:07,960
Speaker 6: you know, we might be able to get to a

859
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:10,760
Speaker 6: point during the season where, you know, make some trades

860
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:13,359
Speaker 6: if we're good, right, you never you can never look

861
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:15,320
Speaker 6: at it and say and plus he's as a player.

862
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:17,480
Speaker 6: I don't want people to feel sorry for me, like

863
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:19,640
Speaker 6: the outside world be like, oh, you're on the Pirates

864
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:21,239
Speaker 6: or you're on the Twins or this, or that you

865
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 6: can't spend money the Marlins. Screw that. I'm in the

866
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 6: big leagues and I'm here to compete, and I'm here

867
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:26,640
Speaker 6: to beat the other team, no matter who they are.

868
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:28,800
Speaker 6: And if I'm on the lesser team, I want to

869
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:33,960
Speaker 6: show the bigger team that I can compete with you.