1 00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:06,920 Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and Chuck's 2 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:09,520 Speaker 1: here and Jerry's sitting in for Daves, and that makes 3 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:13,160 Speaker 1: this a short. Do you want to take it from here? 4 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 2: Sure? I had this idea because of a story I'm 5 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 2: going to very quickly tell that may make people think 6 00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:26,599 Speaker 2: I'm a terrible parent. But my daughter the other day 7 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:32,640 Speaker 2: was in the bathtub for seven plus hours. 8 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:37,200 Speaker 1: What what'd she do? And does she read or play 9 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:38,199 Speaker 1: video games or. 10 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 2: She's always like long baths. She just kicks it and 11 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:46,520 Speaker 2: plays with her little action figures, her cuckoos, and she's 12 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:49,239 Speaker 2: always just done voices and little made up worlds and 13 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 2: just sometimes it's music. Sometimes it's her favorite podcast, story Pirates. 14 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 2: But the other day she got in early in the morning. 15 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:01,280 Speaker 2: It was a Saturday. She didn't eney anything going on, 16 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 2: and she just stayed and stayed, And then I think 17 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 2: was playing it up because I kept going in there 18 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 2: every hour and saying a new household record, and then 19 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 2: I would say the time, and she just thought it 20 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:16,119 Speaker 2: was hysterical. So she came out. I'm going to text 21 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 2: you actually right now the picture of her hand, okay, 22 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 2: And I've never seen anything like it, and it made 23 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 2: me think, like, you know what, I don't even really 24 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:26,840 Speaker 2: know why people's hands and feet prune up anyway, and 25 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:28,119 Speaker 2: that's where this was born. 26 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:31,840 Speaker 1: What a fantastic story, What a great origin story for this. 27 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:33,680 Speaker 2: Do you have your phone? 28 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:36,120 Speaker 1: I do? Lay it on me all right? 29 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 2: I sent it to you. It's incredible. You know, I'll 30 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 2: post this on my Instagram Chuck the podcaster when this 31 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:47,039 Speaker 2: comes out, because people should see. God, isn't that amazing? 32 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 1: Wow? She looks like Benjamin Button after he was first born. 33 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really something that is amazing. 34 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 1: I'll bet you were like, how does this happen? 35 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 2: Well, the first thing I looked up was like, have 36 00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 2: I done something really wrong? It's this danger and it 37 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 2: is not. You can sit in the water like that 38 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 2: and it's all fine and good and your handsle and 39 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 2: feet will go back to normal soon enough. 40 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 1: That's awesome. I've done something wrong. Yes, it's gonna be 41 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:16,080 Speaker 1: like that forever. So okay, there's a great question. This 42 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 1: is a tailor made short stuff, Chuck, Like, what makes 43 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:23,359 Speaker 1: your skin prune up when it's submerged in the water. 44 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:25,640 Speaker 1: And it's not just any part of your skin, it's 45 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 1: specifically your hands and your feet, and in particular your 46 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 1: fingertips and toes that really get pruney at least first. 47 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:38,919 Speaker 1: And the answer is, we're not one hundred percent sure 48 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 1: why that happens. There's some good guesses, but science seems 49 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 1: to have gotten to the bottom of how it happens. 50 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was for a long time, I think, up 51 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 2: until like the early twentieth century, science basically thought it 52 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 2: was osmosis. So you know, the movement of water from 53 00:02:56,720 --> 00:03:00,160 Speaker 2: one place to another, in this case from the outer 54 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:04,399 Speaker 2: layers the drier outer layers of the skin retreats essentially, 55 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:11,280 Speaker 2: and so your skin and hands are expands that surface 56 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:14,240 Speaker 2: area and it just gets wrinkly. But then they were like, 57 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 2: wait a minute, that's not the case. 58 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:19,520 Speaker 1: No, because somebody figured out in the nineteen thirties that 59 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:22,839 Speaker 1: if you have nerve damage on your fingertips, you can 60 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 1: soak and palm olive till the cows come home and 61 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 1: you're not going to get pruny fingers. So like, that 62 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:31,800 Speaker 1: doesn't make any sense, Like if it's just osmosis, like 63 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 1: it should happen to anybody with skin in water, that's 64 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 1: just how that works. So they're like, since it's nerve damage, 65 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: that makes us think that there's some sort of maybe 66 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 1: autonomic nervous system control going on, And it turns out 67 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 1: that's exactly what it is. And the original scientists who 68 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 1: thought that it was it wrinkled from your skin puffing up. 69 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: We're kind of looking at it backwards, and it turns 70 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 1: out your skin is actually shrinking it when it gets 71 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 1: all pruney from being in the water. 72 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's vaso constriction. So your blood vessels under the 73 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 2: epidermis are shrinking, and it's just a response to water. 74 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 2: When you put something in water for your skin that 75 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 2: is in water too long, the nervous system is going 76 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 2: to restrict that blood flow automatically. It's a pro like 77 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 2: you said, the autonomic system which controls perspiration and breathing 78 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:23,159 Speaker 2: and the things we don't need to think about, and 79 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 2: this is just another one. You lose that volume in 80 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 2: each little fingertip and they shrink inward and it looks pruney. 81 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:35,239 Speaker 1: Yeah, so rather than puffing out paying attention to those ridges, 82 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:38,800 Speaker 1: you wanted to look at the valleys. That's the key 83 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:39,600 Speaker 1: the valley. 84 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:40,280 Speaker 2: Yeah. 85 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:43,720 Speaker 1: The science finally figure that out, and apparently they've known 86 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 1: it for decades. I didn't know what it was until 87 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:49,919 Speaker 1: just now. So thanks for that, and I say we 88 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:52,359 Speaker 1: take a break because it's kind of like the wild 89 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:56,480 Speaker 1: Wild West, just a total free frawll in explaining why 90 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 1: that happens. So check. There's a bunch of different theories 91 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 1: about why our fingers proved, because if you think about 92 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:37,839 Speaker 1: it, it doesn't really make sense if it's not osmosis and 93 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 1: it's just like a passive response to being in water. 94 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 1: But our actual nervous system is doing this. Why is 95 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:49,720 Speaker 1: there an evolutionary advantage to it? Because think about it, 96 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 1: it takes energy to do that, and over time that 97 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 1: would suggest that natural selection selected for that trait in humans. 98 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:02,240 Speaker 1: And it turns out, yeah, that's right. 99 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 2: Weirdly, and this is the theory that I think a 100 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 2: lot of scientists have gotten behind and they say they've 101 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 2: I'm not sure if they can say they've really really 102 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 2: proved it, but they have done some studies that sort 103 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:16,920 Speaker 2: of indicate that it may be true. But there was 104 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 2: a guy in twenty eleven named Mark Changeeze, and Mark 105 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 2: Changheze said, hey, I got a little theory on why 106 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 2: skin prunes if you want to hear it. Actually he 107 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:32,839 Speaker 2: was an evolutionary neurobiologist, so he probably didn't talk like that, 108 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:35,159 Speaker 2: but he was in Boise, Idaho, and he and his 109 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:38,839 Speaker 2: colleague said, what we think is going on is that 110 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 2: it is an evolutionary adaptation that is a benefit to us, 111 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:46,920 Speaker 2: and that is it makes us able to grip things 112 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 2: better when our hands or the thing or both are wet. 113 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:55,719 Speaker 1: Right, And everybody else went prove it, and some other 114 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:59,719 Speaker 1: people did. I think a UK group from New Kestle 115 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 1: Diversity actually took that theory and put it to the test, 116 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:07,720 Speaker 1: and they found out that if you pick up wet 117 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:12,240 Speaker 1: or dry objects, marbles specifically of varying sizes, if your 118 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 1: fingers are pruney, you are twelve percent faster at picking 119 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:20,480 Speaker 1: up wet marbles than somebody whose fingers aren't pruney or 120 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 1: just plump and dry like normal. Yeah, that's significant, that's 121 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 1: a that's a big difference, twelve percent faster. I tried 122 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 1: to give an example or figure out an example. I can't, 123 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 1: but just accept that that's actually a pretty pretty it's 124 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 1: a reasonable difference that suggests like, no, there's an actual 125 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 1: like ad this is an adaptation, right, And the way 126 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 1: that it's kind of described is that like our fingers 127 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 1: turned into tire tread in wet conditions. Almost. 128 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a perfect way to describe it. The way 129 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:56,160 Speaker 2: that one of the biologists at Newcastle explained it is 130 00:07:56,480 --> 00:08:00,160 Speaker 2: completely incorrect, which bothers me. Yeah, because he said, we've 131 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 2: shown that they give better grip and wet conditions. True, 132 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 2: it could be working like treads on your car tires. True, 133 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 2: This is the part that's not right, he says, which 134 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 2: allows more of the tire to be in contact with 135 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 2: the road and gives you a better grip. Not true 136 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 2: at all, because while he may know a lot about 137 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 2: brain stuff, this guy didn't know nothing about car racing. 138 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 1: No, he just knows he likes to riding cars. 139 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, because you know, race cars have slicks on them 140 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 2: because you have one hundred percent contact with the road 141 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 2: and much better grip. Treads actually give you less grip. 142 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 2: The reason you have treads is to so the water 143 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:39,199 Speaker 2: spills on a wet road spills between the treads like 144 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:41,680 Speaker 2: a little valley, and that's the same thing that's happening here. 145 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:45,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, channels water through it. So that Yeah, so you 146 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 1: actually do have less contact but better traction. 147 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 2: Yeah. So aside from that, I think like standing ovation 148 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 2: for me on this theory and proving it with a 149 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:57,200 Speaker 2: game of marbles. 150 00:08:57,559 --> 00:08:59,679 Speaker 1: I cannot agree with you on that. 151 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:01,840 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, what do you think, buddy? 152 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 1: I have a question, That's what I think. I have 153 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 1: a question. 154 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:05,720 Speaker 2: Uh huh? 155 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:08,920 Speaker 1: Does it have to have a function? Can it just 156 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 1: be a consequence of the fact that we have evolved 157 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 1: to send our hot blood toward the core when we're 158 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 1: submerged in water to keep us alive, to keep the 159 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:22,840 Speaker 1: important bits alive, which means that the blood flows away 160 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 1: from our extremities, like our fingertips, and because of that, 161 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:29,320 Speaker 1: our fingertips just kind of shrink, like they're saying, like 162 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:32,960 Speaker 1: it's vasco constriction. Does it Does it have to have 163 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 1: a reason evolutionarily or can it just be a consequence 164 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 1: of that a byproduct that doesn't make any sense, or 165 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:43,080 Speaker 1: it just so happens it gives us better grip, or 166 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 1: we have better grip when our fingers are crooney? 167 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:47,880 Speaker 2: Well, I mean, is that a question you could ask 168 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 2: about any evolutionary advantage is like did that just happen 169 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:53,720 Speaker 2: and it was coincidence that it turned out to be 170 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:56,080 Speaker 2: good for our survival? 171 00:09:56,400 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 1: No? Because I mean, let's say flying flight and burn right. 172 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 1: Even if that did just happen to evolve as an 173 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:06,320 Speaker 1: accident or a consequence of something else, which I don't 174 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 1: think it did. It was so quickly and so thoroughly 175 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:14,560 Speaker 1: selected that they think that flight occurred. It like evolves 176 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:17,680 Speaker 1: separately in different areas of the world at different times. 177 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:21,320 Speaker 1: It's just that it's just that advantageous. This is not 178 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:25,920 Speaker 1: particularly advantageous, and it's possible humans are just reading more 179 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 1: deeply into something. I know, you know what I was saying. 180 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 1: I'm essentially just restating my case here. 181 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 2: I would argue that it is, and they argue that 182 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 2: it is advantageous because Tuktook in the rain is able 183 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 2: to gather more twelve percent more in fact wet berries 184 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 2: then he would have had he not had that wrinkled skin, 185 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:52,800 Speaker 2: and also potentially better attraction on slippy rock surfaces with 186 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:56,200 Speaker 2: those pruny toes, and so TikTok isn't falling and hitting 187 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 2: his little head. 188 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 1: Okay, it's mister smart guy. Why if it's just so 189 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 1: advantageous to have, why aren't our fingers puney all the time? Yeah? 190 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 2: Well, I know you're being coy because I have no idea. 191 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 2: But they did ask those scientists that same question, and 192 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:15,560 Speaker 2: they said that it's not too clear, but their initial 193 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:18,679 Speaker 2: thought was here's the quote. Our initial thoughts are that 194 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:21,440 Speaker 2: this is that this could diminish the sensitivity in our 195 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:25,720 Speaker 2: fingertips or could increase the risk of damage through catching 196 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 2: on objects. So skin goes back to smooth fingertips when 197 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 2: it's not needed, because that, you know, isn't so great 198 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 2: to have full time. 199 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:39,560 Speaker 1: Okay, that's a reasonable explanation to that one. Yeah, so 200 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:42,560 Speaker 1: I guess well, I'm not going to say that the 201 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 1: case is subtled because I just don't agree. 202 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:47,240 Speaker 2: Hey man, I respect your opinion, and you know what, 203 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:48,719 Speaker 2: I don't really have one one way or the other. 204 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 2: I just think it's interesting. 205 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:52,720 Speaker 1: All right, that's great. Well everybody chucks that, hey man, 206 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:53,960 Speaker 1: which means short stuff is that. 207 00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:00,560 Speaker 2: Stuff you should know? Is a production of iHeartRadio. For 208 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:04,840 Speaker 2: more podcasts my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 209 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.