1 00:00:01,360 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, A production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio, Hello and Happy Friday. Am Holly Frye and 3 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 1: I'm Tracy V. Wilson. Oh, we talked about a gruesome 4 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:22,720 Speaker 1: murder this week. Yeah, we had two of those this October. 5 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 1: I don't think we went into it being like, We're 6 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 1: gonna just do murder. Murder. It is, as I said, 7 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 1: I mean, this is one that has stuck with me 8 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:36,640 Speaker 1: and stayed on my mind for several years, and I 9 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:40,239 Speaker 1: don't know, it just felt important for that reason. There 10 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:42,519 Speaker 1: were a few things I wanted to mention that. As 11 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:45,200 Speaker 1: I said during the episode, this is one of those 12 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:49,199 Speaker 1: cases where there is a lot of coverage of it, 13 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:53,599 Speaker 1: so like to Minutia, just day to day long articles 14 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 1: being written about like every single thing the suspects were 15 00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 1: doing in custody and the weird things they were saying 16 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 1: contradicting each other. So I was trying to pare it 17 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:04,840 Speaker 1: down because it was going to run really long otherwise. 18 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 1: But I did want to revisit a couple of points 19 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:12,360 Speaker 1: in it, one just in case anyone listening was like, huh, 20 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 1: how'd that work? This was a time when it was 21 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 1: perfectly legal to buy cocaine from a drug store. Yeah. 22 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 1: I was thinking about that that as Yeah. Yeah, it 23 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 1: came up a couple of times, and I was like, yeah, 24 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:28,320 Speaker 1: they were just going to get that from the pharmacy. Yeah, 25 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 1: just could go grab some you know, not even like 26 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:37,680 Speaker 1: there are still medical uses for cocaine. It's not. There's 27 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:40,400 Speaker 1: just like an over the counter situation. Yes, this was 28 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 1: not added to various things, no barrier to purchase. There 29 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 1: another thing I wanted to talk about. There's a detail 30 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 1: that came up in the description of the body that 31 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 1: we didn't really revisit. We sort of mentioned a thing 32 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:56,920 Speaker 1: that might have eased people's minds about it. There is 33 00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 1: a mention that the top of her dress is open. 34 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 1: But then the coroner's in quest did not find any 35 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: indication of sexual assault, and what most people came to 36 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 1: believe was that Scott Jackson was looking for anything like 37 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 1: a letter, any kind of evidence that would tie him 38 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:21,640 Speaker 1: to the body, and that that was really what he 39 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 1: was after in Yeah, in taking off her corset and 40 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 1: looking under her her dress. Yeah, it, I'll say it 41 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 1: like it. It is possible for a person to be 42 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:35,800 Speaker 1: sexually assaulted and not have a lot of physical evidence 43 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:41,119 Speaker 1: left behind and with the entire crime scene having been 44 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 1: trampled and souvenirs taken and stuff like that before like, 45 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:48,520 Speaker 1: which is a running theme. I thought about that as 46 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 1: as I was reading that part of the outline for 47 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 1: the first time, I remembered one time we talked about 48 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:56,399 Speaker 1: if we had a time machine, we would go back 49 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:59,080 Speaker 1: into we go back in time and like stop people 50 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 1: from ampling all the crime scenes. We'll just go back 51 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 1: in time and introduce the idea of crime scene tape 52 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:08,800 Speaker 1: way it exists. And somebody was like, you wouldn't go 53 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 1: back in time and try to stop the crime from happening, 54 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:13,240 Speaker 1: And I was like, sure, that would be better. But 55 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 1: what what I was thinking of in that moment was like, 56 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 1: how consistently for so long, like we have so many 57 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:21,359 Speaker 1: episodes where we talk about and then the crime scene 58 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 1: was completely trampled and people took away all kinds of 59 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 1: souvenirs from it. So I am I am reluctant to 60 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:33,639 Speaker 1: like one hundred percent get behind any of the physical 61 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 1: evidence part of the coroner's in quest. Yeah, I mean, 62 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 1: I think I felt more comfortable with it because there 63 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 1: were two of them right done. I believe by two 64 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 1: different corners, So I mean, granted, two people can miss 65 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 1: the same stuff, but yeah, I don't know will Wood, 66 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 1: so her second cousin. He is a weird character to 67 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 1: consider in all of this one because some accounts suggest 68 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:06,080 Speaker 1: that he had been kind of sweet on her, but 69 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 1: she was not interested in him before any of this happened. Obviously, 70 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 1: Scott Jackson tries to implicate him as actually having been 71 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:18,479 Speaker 1: the father of her child. And when I said in 72 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 1: the episode, he kind of vanishes from the historical record, 73 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 1: like he definitely vanishes from the Cincinnati and Newport, Kentucky area. 74 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 1: There are in paper some sightings of him in other 75 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 1: places or people that people think are him, because friends 76 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 1: of Scott Jackson and Alonzo Walling actually wanted him to 77 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 1: also be prosecuted for the crime, and even after the executions, 78 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 1: they were still trying to find him. I don't know 79 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:57,839 Speaker 1: that anybody ever did. And here's why there's a point 80 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:01,360 Speaker 1: of diminishing returns when you are looking at old historical 81 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:07,279 Speaker 1: records and papers, because William Wood is not an uncommon name. 82 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:09,800 Speaker 1: So at that point it was like, well, here are 83 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 1: seventeen thousand hits. I'm not sure I have time to 84 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:17,719 Speaker 1: go through all that. Yeah, so that's why we don't. 85 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:19,840 Speaker 1: I don't. I will confess I did not go down 86 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: that rabbit hole perhaps one day. Does it seem real 87 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: squirrely that he took off right after they were like, um, 88 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:31,320 Speaker 1: we'll charge you with this much lesser crime and kind 89 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 1: of slap on the wrist situation. Yeah, I think that's 90 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 1: super super sticy, but we don't know what happened there. 91 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:41,600 Speaker 1: I also mentioned in the episode that I would explain 92 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:45,920 Speaker 1: why to me there is an odd sort of comfort 93 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 1: is not the right word, but there is an odd 94 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:56,480 Speaker 1: sort of reassurance to me in examining these things. And 95 00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 1: here is why I hope I don't sound like a 96 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:06,839 Speaker 1: utter ghoul. I am. I feel like pretty sensitive to 97 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:11,279 Speaker 1: any such things like this happening. But I think there 98 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:15,920 Speaker 1: is always I mean, we've seen it in many historical 99 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 1: accounts of various events going on of all kinds. People 100 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:24,480 Speaker 1: always think their time is the worst time. And so 101 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:29,720 Speaker 1: when we can look back in history and say, no, no, 102 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:34,919 Speaker 1: horrible things were always happening. It is obviously bad that 103 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 1: they have always been happening, but the fact that humans 104 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 1: have continued to endure and do some good things despite 105 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 1: this always having kind of been the condition gives me 106 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 1: an odd sort of like hope, does that sound like 107 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:56,479 Speaker 1: I am just a broken person looking for happiness and goulishness. 108 00:06:56,560 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 1: I don't know. I just don't I yeah, I don't 109 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:03,279 Speaker 1: think so. I mean I think right, like we always 110 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 1: want to be like it has never been as bad 111 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 1: as it is now. We are dealing with, you know, 112 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 1: modern crime statistics. We get all of that information all 113 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 1: the time. We feel like every day is a danger 114 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 1: and surely that's the case for any living thing, just 115 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 1: because we get a lot more information now, and we 116 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 1: get a lot more information faster now, and in a 117 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 1: lot of ways it is inescapable, and you know, unless 118 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 1: you want to stay totally off the internet, which we 119 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 1: increasingly live in a world where the day to day 120 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 1: necessities of life are conducted on websites. So it's like 121 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 1: real hard to do that. Yeah, so yeah, yeah, it's 122 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 1: a little bit different for me than the kind of 123 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 1: thing that happens. You know, there are lots of psychological 124 00:07:55,960 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 1: theories and studies about how people watching horror films first 125 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 1: like a release of that natural anxiety that comes with life. 126 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 1: This is a little different because it contextualizes human behavior 127 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:11,000 Speaker 1: as almost a constant. In some ways, that makes it 128 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 1: seem like, well, okay, there have always been horrible people, 129 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 1: there have also always been good people, Like we can 130 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 1: keep trying to make the good stuff more prominent. I know, 131 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 1: it's odd, like I said, oddly reassuring to consider it. 132 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 1: I also am one of those people who is a 133 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 1: little uncomfortable with recent history true crime. Oh sure, I 134 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 1: think we've talked about this before, because you know, those 135 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:45,480 Speaker 1: are often immediately stories that are immediately impacting people connected 136 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:48,680 Speaker 1: to them. Yeah, whereas if you go back, you know, 137 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:53,680 Speaker 1: one hundred and thirty years, there may certainly still be 138 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 1: descendants of those families, but it's not quite as yeah, 139 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:01,760 Speaker 1: fresh a wound. It is perhaps jarring and something that 140 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:05,560 Speaker 1: people live through and live with. Yeah. I there have 141 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:12,320 Speaker 1: definitely been multiple true crime podcasts about like recent crimes 142 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:17,080 Speaker 1: and recent murders whose families, like the families of the victims, 143 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 1: have been like, hey, this actually sucked to have my 144 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:27,680 Speaker 1: loved one's death become popular entertainment. Yeah. So, yeah, it does. 145 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 1: It feels a little different when we're looking at something 146 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:32,959 Speaker 1: that happened more than a century ago. Yeah, Yeah, it's 147 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 1: a little easier. I mean that's the whole reason, right 148 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:39,200 Speaker 1: that criminilia is a historical true crime, right, because we 149 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 1: could talk about those things with a little bit more 150 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:45,559 Speaker 1: levity and a little less uh feeling a little less 151 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:50,319 Speaker 1: voyeuristic because it is not anybody that person was three 152 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 1: hundred years ago. I think we're okay, we're safe anyway, 153 00:09:54,440 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 1: Sorry that our Halloween episode wasn't jolly well our If 154 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 1: I had done this this month better planning wise, this 155 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:05,960 Speaker 1: would have come earlier and we might have ended on 156 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 1: jack o' lanterns. Well, we have not exactly a bonus 157 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 1: episode of Halloween. But the episode that is coming out 158 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 1: on the Wednesday of the week of this one is 159 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 1: Marianne adelaide Le Normal, So that is some somewhat still 160 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 1: kind of HALLOWEENI like, I had originally thought of it 161 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 1: as an October episode, but it got bumped into November. 162 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 1: So it's kind of like a there's a lot of 163 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:36,079 Speaker 1: French Revolution in it, but not quite as grim as 164 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:40,040 Speaker 1: this one. Yeah, yeah, you'll hear about that episode in 165 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 1: like five more seconds. We talked about Marianne Adelaideal. Oh 166 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 1: I love her, Yet we mostly pronounced it in a 167 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:01,840 Speaker 1: Frenchish way, even though most people I only found one 168 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:05,679 Speaker 1: person who was like a person who works with these 169 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 1: decks who said the deck name in a French way. 170 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 1: Almost universally, everyone just said Le Normand in regards to 171 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 1: like the cardamancy decks and some of those, I watched 172 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 1: a number of videos of people sort of doing readings 173 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:21,400 Speaker 1: and doing tutorials about how to do readings and things 174 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:25,640 Speaker 1: like that, and it just a number of them were like, 175 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:29,040 Speaker 1: if you do Taro, if you read Taro, like a 176 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 1: lot of times I'm paraphrasing, you're sort of interpreting. There 177 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 1: might be sort of a subjective, kind of intuitive quality 178 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:41,600 Speaker 1: to all of it. But the Le Norman cards have 179 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:44,319 Speaker 1: specific meetings, and so they were like, this deck will 180 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 1: be very direct with you, so don't ask it a question. 181 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:49,440 Speaker 1: You don't want a direct answer to you, and you 182 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:51,440 Speaker 1: might not like the answer right, and that will just 183 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:56,200 Speaker 1: be how it is. So I feel like we talked 184 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 1: about this sum in our Tarot episode, like I'm not 185 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:02,679 Speaker 1: a practitioner of any of these things, but I have 186 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:06,880 Speaker 1: used similar things as sort of like an exercise, like 187 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:09,960 Speaker 1: a like a meditation exercise or a meditation tool or 188 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:12,720 Speaker 1: something like that. So I found all of that really interesting. 189 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 1: I will also know we didn't say this in an episode. 190 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 1: Apparently she is a character, or at least someone who 191 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:22,439 Speaker 1: appears in Assassin's Creed Unity that is not one of 192 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 1: the Assassin's Creed games I have played, so I don't 193 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:26,600 Speaker 1: know anything about it. I feel like we could say 194 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:29,560 Speaker 1: that about almost any historical figure at this point. So 195 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:33,319 Speaker 1: many yea, they are jam packed into those games. There 196 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 1: is a brand new Assassin's Creed game that I have 197 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:39,840 Speaker 1: not played at all because I'm still playing Balder Skate three. 198 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 1: I haven't had time to play video games in so long, 199 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:44,200 Speaker 1: and I miss it. Yeah, but when I play, it's 200 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:51,960 Speaker 1: usually like Star Wars Lego, So yes, yeah, I As 201 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 1: I said, I've tried to start on this episode so 202 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:58,840 Speaker 1: many times, and every time it's been like, oh, it's 203 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 1: not going to be October any gotta save this for 204 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:03,920 Speaker 1: next year. I'm actually kind of glad about that, because 205 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:06,440 Speaker 1: I'm having trouble with research, and also kind of in 206 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:09,319 Speaker 1: the back of my mind there's been maybe next year, Tracy, 207 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:11,840 Speaker 1: We'll be able to read French well enough to read 208 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 1: some of these French language sources. I still cannot read 209 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 1: French well enough, although in my defense, I have been 210 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:23,439 Speaker 1: studying more Spanish over the last six months or so 211 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 1: so that I am I can hope not totally lost. 212 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 1: When we go to Barcelona, which this episode I think 213 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 1: will be coming out, I will be in Barcelona able 214 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 1: to say such things as where's the bathroom? And my 215 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:42,640 Speaker 1: name is Tracy. I learned that from Bob's Burgers, like 216 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:45,840 Speaker 1: I learned everything. Yeah, because there's a song where Tina 217 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 1: sings about it. Yeah, I try. I tried to learn 218 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:54,080 Speaker 1: a little Italian before we went to Italy last year, 219 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 1: and I found trying to switch from French to Italian 220 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 1: for some reason just brain melting in a way that 221 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 1: Spanish versus French has not really happened. And I don't 222 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 1: know if that's because I did learn a very tiny 223 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 1: amount of Spanish as a kid. Also, I mean, living 224 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:15,720 Speaker 1: in the United States at this point, we're just surrounded 225 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:17,520 Speaker 1: by a lot of Spanish and a lot of day 226 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 1: to day lives that we might not even really recognize 227 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 1: in terms of like food, taco Bell commercials, Like just 228 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 1: even if you don't personally know somebody who speaks Spanish 229 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 1: at home, I feel like there's just a lot, a 230 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 1: lot more Spanish out in our lives than a lot 231 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 1: of other languages. Yeah, sure, so, yeah, I have a 232 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:43,040 Speaker 1: question for you. Okay, I think it's a question. Okay, 233 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 1: I feel like the guy at a con who is like, 234 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 1: this is more of a common than a question. And 235 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 1: I I'm trying to I'm trying to put this together 236 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:55,520 Speaker 1: because my brain is spinning on this as I'm asking it. 237 00:14:56,240 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 1: I was struck. We mentioned in the episode twice the 238 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 1: word jue, which is game. Oh, just where she asked 239 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:07,040 Speaker 1: clients if they wanted the grand updi ju, the big 240 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 1: game or the little game, and then the decks were 241 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 1: called the game. And I thought of two things. One, 242 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 1: this is interesting because Taro, which gets used for divination 243 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 1: we talked about in our Tarot episode, started strictly as 244 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 1: a game and then got kind of used for divination. 245 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 1: And still you can play the game of Taro in 246 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 1: some places in France. But that also this may have 247 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:36,840 Speaker 1: been terminology that was used to obfuscate the fact that 248 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 1: it was divination. Oh maybe yeah, to avoid legal problems, 249 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 1: like even when she sat down with someone and did 250 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 1: their reading, if the place got raided and she was busted, 251 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 1: she could say I asked them if they wanted to 252 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:54,240 Speaker 1: play a game. Yeah, maybe, And I don't. I had 253 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 1: never thought of it before until just today while we 254 00:15:56,880 --> 00:16:00,160 Speaker 1: were hadness either And like she did write a lot 255 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 1: of books about like divination and uh and and that 256 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 1: kind of thing. And what I found, like English translations 257 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:15,400 Speaker 1: of were mostly like her books about Marie Antoinette, not 258 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:17,840 Speaker 1: so much the things that were specifically about cardamancy as 259 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 1: I understand it, though, because her nephew, who inherited all 260 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:28,680 Speaker 1: of her property, had religious objections to what she was doing. 261 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:31,120 Speaker 1: As I understand it, like he destroyed all of her 262 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 1: actual cards, and so we don't really know specifically what 263 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 1: the cards she was using were. Like, so was it 264 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 1: also and I could look this up, I'm sure, but 265 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:53,320 Speaker 1: I'm not a hundred sure where I would start. Was 266 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 1: it illegal to write about it or was it just 267 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 1: illegal to practice it? Because those would be ques a 268 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 1: few different things to get more specific information about what 269 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:05,400 Speaker 1: the actual law was, uh huh, because I just kept 270 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:08,480 Speaker 1: reading fortune telling was illegal, and it was a very 271 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:11,920 Speaker 1: general statement, like there wasn't a specific citation of which 272 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 1: law was in play, right, And so I started trying 273 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:18,440 Speaker 1: to find more specific detail and I did not have 274 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 1: success with that. I also found some contradictory stuff about 275 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:27,320 Speaker 1: like what administrations was it illegal under right? Well, and 276 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:30,879 Speaker 1: I know this actually came up in Criminalia because there 277 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:32,959 Speaker 1: have been a few episodes where we have talked about 278 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:38,639 Speaker 1: fortune tellers and specifically in France, and if I recall correctly, 279 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 1: part of why you are probably having difficulty finding any 280 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:48,680 Speaker 1: kind of specificity is that the laws were pretty terse 281 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:54,479 Speaker 1: and very open to interpretation in terms of like it 282 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 1: is illegal to predict, to engage in prediction, or something 283 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:02,159 Speaker 1: as simple as that, which is very like nebulous and 284 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:05,439 Speaker 1: fluffy and easy to invoke when you needed it. But 285 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:10,680 Speaker 1: I am wondering if it would have been nebulous enough 286 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 1: that there would have been an exclusion of written examinations 287 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:21,240 Speaker 1: of the ideas versus And I don't know. It's it's 288 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 1: pretty brazen to write a biography of someone you knew 289 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:30,119 Speaker 1: who died where you make up a lot of stuff. Yeah. Yeah. 290 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 1: My impression of that is that a lot of it 291 00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:34,720 Speaker 1: is like fanciful, and that's like one of the big 292 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 1: one of the big difficulties of working on this episode 293 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:40,119 Speaker 1: at all is that a lot of the stuff that 294 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:42,960 Speaker 1: we know about here comes from what she said about herself. 295 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:47,440 Speaker 1: And so if I made my living as a fortune 296 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:51,960 Speaker 1: teller and there were big, dramatic world events happening, and 297 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 1: then I wrote a book about my career, I would 298 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 1: one hundred percent claim that I had predicted all that biziness. Yeah, yeah, 299 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:01,399 Speaker 1: here's all the things that I wrote before the revolution started. 300 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 1: So I don't know. I find her very interesting and 301 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:13,399 Speaker 1: all of the writing about her interesting and sometimes funny. 302 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 1: And that whole thing about the Earl of Sterling, I 303 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:22,440 Speaker 1: think it was was a headache. That was the only 304 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:24,879 Speaker 1: unfun thing of reading in all of this. And I 305 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:27,160 Speaker 1: was reading and I was like, I there's so many 306 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:29,320 Speaker 1: pages of this and I don't fully understand what's happening. 307 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 1: And she was involved with it, had a lot of letters, 308 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 1: and I have that like question in the back of 309 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:38,679 Speaker 1: my mind of like, would he have gone after this 310 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 1: so hard had he not had a fortune teller being like, Oh, yes, 311 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:43,840 Speaker 1: you're going to go through some trials, but then you're 312 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:49,160 Speaker 1: definitely going to become very important, right. I literally am 313 00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:52,120 Speaker 1: a little obsessed in my head trying to figure out 314 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:55,919 Speaker 1: if I can redecorate a room in my house to 315 00:19:55,960 --> 00:20:01,119 Speaker 1: look like her fortune Telling Room. Yeah, I love everything 316 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:05,159 Speaker 1: about it. The magic words wax fruits were uttered, and 317 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 1: I don't know, there's something so odd and wonderful about 318 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:12,680 Speaker 1: true wax fruits, not what we call wax fruit today 319 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:16,440 Speaker 1: that's actually plastic, but true waxwims that I love. There's 320 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:20,479 Speaker 1: a translucency to them that I'm really obsessed with visually. 321 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 1: But this also sounds great to me. And the whole 322 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:26,440 Speaker 1: thing of like it was so busy your eye couldn't 323 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 1: settle on any place that wasn't busy, and I'm like, yeah, yeah, 324 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 1: that sounds like my house. I love all of this. 325 00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:36,159 Speaker 1: I love all of this. I think the only thing 326 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 1: that really disturbed me about it was the the idea 327 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:40,639 Speaker 1: of having bats on the walls, pinned up by their wings, 328 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:44,840 Speaker 1: and I was like, are these I'm assuming these are 329 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:48,080 Speaker 1: either like fake bats or taxidermy bats, but either way, 330 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:50,560 Speaker 1: surely bats are so cute that I was like, oh, 331 00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 1: but the pat like, I presume they must be fake 332 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:57,320 Speaker 1: or taxidermine, and we don't really know if they're if 333 00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 1: his description of how they were hung as accurate either correct? Yeah, yeah, 334 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:04,120 Speaker 1: I mean I also love bats and have a lot 335 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:07,440 Speaker 1: of bat things in my house. So I'm halfway there. Really, 336 00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 1: I mean, I actually am. It's I would not have 337 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:12,240 Speaker 1: to buy many things to create this room. I'll just 338 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 1: put it that way. I would just have to collect 339 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 1: things that are scattered about into one place. The thing 340 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:22,960 Speaker 1: I would have to buy would be maple furniture, because 341 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:26,680 Speaker 1: I I know every time I say this, people look 342 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:32,920 Speaker 1: at me like I have questionable taste intellect. I don't 343 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:36,640 Speaker 1: know what I do, not like wood grain anything. Uh huh. 344 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:39,040 Speaker 1: I don't know why. So I don't have any maple furniture, 345 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:42,280 Speaker 1: but I could get some in the service of creating 346 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:45,840 Speaker 1: her fortune telling room. I would, I would do it. Well, 347 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:48,639 Speaker 1: I look forward to your work in progress photo. I 348 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 1: don't know where i'd put it. That's the problem, Like 349 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:54,160 Speaker 1: our rooms are accounted for. I can't build another room 350 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 1: on the house. And then I'm like, maybe I could 351 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, Well, if you're going to work on 352 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:07,360 Speaker 1: turning a room of your house into a reproduction of 353 00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:12,080 Speaker 1: Mademoiselle Denorman's Salon, send us your work in progress pictures 354 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:15,639 Speaker 1: or pictures of your pets and Halloween costumes or not 355 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,840 Speaker 1: in Halloween costumes, or you know, just a cute, cute 356 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:22,360 Speaker 1: bumble bee you saw outside. Any of these things are great. Uh, 357 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 1: whatever's coming up on your weekends. I hope that's great too. 358 00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 1: We will be back with a brand new episode on Monday, 359 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 1: first of every Saturday, Classic Tomorrow Stuff You Missed in 360 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 1: History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts 361 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:45,719 Speaker 1: from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 362 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:47,320 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.