Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's
Speaker 2: Chuck and it's just us. Cherry's not here, and this
Speaker 2: is stuff you should know. The Invincible Duo, The ambiguously
Speaker 2: Gay Duo. Yes, sir, you after right? That was pretty good.
Speaker 2: I love it when there's like an impression of an impression.
Speaker 3: That's all I do. That's true, that's my specialty.
Speaker 2: But you do it so well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was that bit was obviously Phil, the great
Speaker 1: Phil Hartman, the late great Phil Hartman's Ed McMahon. And
Speaker 1: that was a that was something that in college and
Speaker 1: you know, my college years were generally the Phil Hartman
Speaker 1: years on SNL. My good friend Eddie and I you
Speaker 1: know Eddie, we for some reason that one really intercreered.
Speaker 1: And still to this day one of us will say
Speaker 1: something and the other will go here, yes.
Speaker 2: Sir, yeah, I mean it's timeless for sure.
Speaker 3: Yeah, really stuck with us.
Speaker 2: I'm sure there's even people walking around doing that who
Speaker 2: have no idea who Ed McMahon is.
Speaker 3: Yeah, probably there's at least two.
Speaker 2: That's what I'm putting.
Speaker 3: Money on you and someone else.
Speaker 2: I know who Ed McMahon is. I'm a skully realized person.
Speaker 1: I know.
Speaker 3: I'm joking.
Speaker 2: We're not talking about Ed McMahon though, not really. We're
Speaker 2: talking about the first guy you mentioned. You were doing
Speaker 2: an impression of Phil Hartman, who turns out to be
Speaker 2: a pretty great, complicated, tragic ultimately dude.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, actor and comedian known best for his
Speaker 1: work on probably Saturday Night Live and The Simpsons. And
Speaker 1: Dave helped us with this, and he wanted us to
Speaker 1: shout out a book by Mike Thomas called You Might
Speaker 1: Remember Me Colon The Life and Times of Phil Hartman
Speaker 1: with one N even though he was born with two
Speaker 1: n's on the name Hartman.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I thought that was pretty pretty crazy. He
Speaker 2: dropped the second end, Yeah, for his I guess stage name.
Speaker 1: It looks like a typo. That would be my guess,
Speaker 1: the second end. Yeah, it just looks odd.
Speaker 2: Well, maybe they pronounced it a little differently too, like
Speaker 2: Phil Hartman. Probably so so. When he was born in
Speaker 2: nineteen forty eight, when he was still named Phil Hartman.
Speaker 2: He was born in Brainford, Ontario, And that might sound
Speaker 2: familiar to hockey fans because that's where Wayne Gretzky's from
Speaker 2: but after Wayne Gretzky, I would say Phil Hartman's probably
Speaker 2: the second most famous person from Brantford, Ontario, and boy,
Speaker 2: I hope you're right. I'm totally not. There's gonna be
Speaker 2: like Tawny Katayan or something'll be from Brainford, Ontario. Although
Speaker 2: she may still fall behind Phil Hartman.
Speaker 3: She passed away too, I believe right.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I stopped keeping up with her after
Speaker 2: she and David Coverdell broke up.
Speaker 1: I think Wayne Gretzky's alive though.
Speaker 2: Yes, he is alive and slapping.
Speaker 3: That's right.
Speaker 1: Phil was a middle kid, number four of eight, and
Speaker 1: as oftentimes with a middle child, especially in Phil's case,
Speaker 1: when you have an older brother who was like super
Speaker 1: athletic and handsome and a younger sister that needed special
Speaker 1: care because of a rare condition called Angelman syndrome. Phil
Speaker 1: it seems like felt like he needed to sort of
Speaker 1: just attract attention by goofing off and being the class clown,
Speaker 1: the family clown.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what metal kids do. He had like jam
Speaker 2: Brady syndrome, but instead of wearing an afro wig, he
Speaker 2: became an actually funny person, right, Yeah, I guess one
Speaker 2: of the big things that happened to him was when
Speaker 2: he and his family moved to California when he was nine,
Speaker 2: nine eight something like that. He was around that age,
Speaker 2: and California like really suited his blood. I mean, he
Speaker 2: was born in Ontario. When you moved to like Malibu area, like,
Speaker 2: you're that's a pretty good move. Typically, I love Toronto,
Speaker 2: and I'm not like throwing shade on Ontario in general,
Speaker 2: but you know, when you move out to southern California
Speaker 2: from there, it's a little different, you.
Speaker 1: Know, Yeah, especially if it turns out you love surfing, sailing,
Speaker 1: and smoking weed or smoking grass at the time, I guess.
Speaker 3: You would say kah, the three s's, yeah.
Speaker 1: Because he Something that I learned yesterday was that Bill
Speaker 1: Hartman was a big pothead.
Speaker 2: Yes, but the kind that the cops wouldn't search your
Speaker 2: car if you got pulled over, which is a lesson
Speaker 2: to all those potheads out there. You don't have to
Speaker 2: look like a pothead to be a pothead.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he can look straight and make the cops laugh
Speaker 1: and they'll just say, go along your day, You're just
Speaker 1: a fun kid, exactly.
Speaker 2: I'll just totally ignore that smell coming out of your car.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So yeah, he was really into southern California life. Apparently
Speaker 2: he was a great surfer by the time he was thirteen.
Speaker 2: This guy was just full of surprises.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And around this time, maybe even a little earlier, he
Speaker 2: started to get into comedy. He started doing he took
Speaker 2: the steps that every young comedian takes, and that's you
Speaker 2: start idolizing some different comedians. Stand up comedians in his
Speaker 2: were Bob new Heart, yeah and the other one. And
Speaker 2: Jonathan Winters, who even if you don't know who Jonathan
Speaker 2: Winters is, but you're a more more commendy fan. Yeah,
Speaker 2: he was the giant old baby that arrived in an
Speaker 2: egg at Morecamendi's tour stuff, I guess.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And Winners and new Heart actually they were sort of
Speaker 1: comedians comedians back then in that era, from like the
Speaker 1: nineteen fifties and into the sixties, and both of them
Speaker 1: were just incredible stand ups. Jonathan Winters was so funny,
Speaker 1: especially like with character work and stuff like that, which
Speaker 1: New Heart didn't do. So between the two of those
Speaker 1: he got a pretty like well rounded comedy education. Memorizing
Speaker 1: those albums doing like I did as a kid, memorizing
Speaker 1: comedy albums, performing bits for friends and family, stuff like that,
Speaker 1: and especially on winter side, those impressions that Jonathan Winners
Speaker 1: would do, Phil Hartman would copy those and then come
Speaker 1: up with his own.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and very quickly he excelled past even Jonathan Winners,
Speaker 2: like he was in rich little area by the time
Speaker 2: he was probably you know, mid teens.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a great story day found. I think it
Speaker 1: was from the book that he and a bunch of
Speaker 1: friends went skiing at Mammoth Mountain outside of La And
Speaker 1: as the story goes, they were hanging around at the
Speaker 1: Hot Springs that night and Phil's friends said, hey, man, start,
Speaker 1: you know, doing some of your bits here for everybody
Speaker 1: and impressions. And this sounds like one of those stories
Speaker 1: has sort of, you know, grown over the years because
Speaker 1: they say over two hours Phil performed basically in front
Speaker 1: of a hundred strangers. I'm not quite sure if I
Speaker 1: believe that part, because I've been to parties at ski resorts,
Speaker 1: hanging out at Hot Springs, and I'm sure he got
Speaker 1: a lot of jokes in, but I'm not sure if
Speaker 1: everyone just sit there for two hours and watch some guy.
Speaker 2: Right, and then one of his friends announced ladies and
Speaker 2: Joe that was mister Phil Hartman, and someday he's going
Speaker 2: to be a big star. Remember this night.
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe it happened, but that's probably apocryphal. But I
Speaker 1: bet a version of that story happen where Phil was
Speaker 1: like the life of the party essentially, is my takeaway.
Speaker 2: Yeah, from a pretty early age, right, So he's clearly funny,
Speaker 2: he's really good at impressions. But his path to comedy,
Speaker 2: I guess was kind of circuitous because he, well his brother,
Speaker 2: he is older brother, the handsome athletic when you mentioned
Speaker 2: earlier John, John decided he wanted to try to get
Speaker 2: into acting, and I guess this was before Phil could
Speaker 2: even get a chance, and John went to Hollywood came
Speaker 2: back reporting that he was not okay with how ceed
Speaker 2: Hollywood was amoral, not anything like an Ontarian would would
Speaker 2: be okay with, and so he said, I'm not going
Speaker 2: to do acting. And I think that kind of scared
Speaker 2: Phil a little bit, or at least guided him away
Speaker 2: from acting for a little while.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it seems like it. John went into the music
Speaker 1: business and co founded a management company called Hartman and Goodman,
Speaker 1: and it seems like they had a real had their
Speaker 1: thumb on the pulse.
Speaker 3: Thumb on the pulse. Sure you can do that, right,
Speaker 3: You could use your thumb for this.
Speaker 1: They had their thumb on the pulse of that Laurel
Speaker 1: Canyon sort of country rock scene. Because they ended up
Speaker 1: managing the likes of Neil Young, America, Buffalo Springfield, the Eagles,
Speaker 1: Joni Mitchell, Jackson, Brown Mamas, and the Papas Wow kind
Speaker 1: of that whole scene they were management for.
Speaker 2: That is a mellow roster man.
Speaker 1: Probably a lot of grass being smoked, yes.
Speaker 2: And Phil smoked a bunch of it too. He got
Speaker 2: brought on eventually. He went to art school for a
Speaker 2: little while, tried to go to the University of Hawaii,
Speaker 2: was turned down, And I'm sure he wanted to go
Speaker 2: to the University of Hawaii.
Speaker 3: To serve That's exactly what I thought.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So his older brother was like, hey, man, you're
Speaker 2: not doing anything. You got some art school under your belt,
Speaker 2: why don't you come and work for me as a roadie,
Speaker 2: because that's what people who go to art school end
Speaker 2: up doing almost invariably.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he hooked him up with a little hippie rock
Speaker 1: band called Rock and Foo Foo Did you listen to
Speaker 1: any Rock and Foo.
Speaker 2: I didn't. I looked up the band members though, Yeah,
Speaker 2: one of them was it was a child actor prior
Speaker 2: to Rock and Foo. He was on f Troop, Gun
Speaker 2: Smoke a bunch of other stuff, and then another one
Speaker 2: was the guitarist and a lot of the Monkeys' hits.
Speaker 1: Oh that's cool. I listened to like three Rock and
Speaker 1: Foo songs and I liked it.
Speaker 2: Okay. I saw a photo of the band and I
Speaker 2: was like, I'm not listening to that.
Speaker 3: Well it was it's probably not your bag, baby.
Speaker 1: It was that sort of you know, kind of that again,
Speaker 1: that Laurel Canyon sort of country rock thing.
Speaker 3: I dug it. I thought it was pretty cool.
Speaker 2: Hey, I love America, don't get me wrong. I think
Speaker 2: they're great.
Speaker 3: But you're no communist.
Speaker 2: Out of all of the lists of bands that you
Speaker 2: rattled off there, you know, I like that band the most.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just not your bag. I get it. I'm
Speaker 3: not I'm not bagging on.
Speaker 2: You, okay, bagging on it. I mean for it not
Speaker 2: being my bag.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you like craft work, for God's sakes
Speaker 1: and elevator music.
Speaker 2: I like, I like most stuff, justs that you rattled up.
Speaker 2: Definitely no a no, Yeah, I'm virulently opposed to listening
Speaker 2: to Eagles.
Speaker 1: They managed Sonny and Cherity. You probably like them the most.
Speaker 2: They're fine. I don't remember what I said on our
Speaker 2: Sunny and Share episode, but I don't remember ever being
Speaker 2: like super into their music. Yeah, Okay, I guess none
Speaker 2: of this really matters, because what we're really talking about
Speaker 2: is Phil Hartman and him making a ROADI yeah, he
Speaker 2: kind of started living the rock and roll lifestyle as
Speaker 2: a roadie for some of these bands, and because he
Speaker 2: had some art school and he was kind of a
Speaker 2: developing artist at the time, his brother was like, hey,
Speaker 2: why don't you do some of these album covers for
Speaker 2: some of the bands? And he did, and at least
Speaker 2: one of them was pretty good.
Speaker 3: Yeah. He did two for Rock and Foo.
Speaker 1: I think they only did two albums, so he dominated
Speaker 1: their album cover art.
Speaker 2: Nice.
Speaker 1: He did some for Crosby Stills and nash Or Sills
Speaker 1: and Nash I wrote that to you.
Speaker 3: America.
Speaker 1: He did one for your favorite band America.
Speaker 3: YEP.
Speaker 1: Did one for Poco that's probably the most noteworthy for
Speaker 1: their album Legend of This. It's a very minimalist artwork
Speaker 1: of a horse. And I wanted to mention it is
Speaker 1: all over the internet that he did the cover for
Speaker 1: Steely Dan's seminal album Asia, and he did not, but
Speaker 1: it's everywhere on the internet as fact, and it's apparently
Speaker 1: not true.
Speaker 2: What a weird rumor, because that's just such an arcane
Speaker 2: fact about him that he ever designed any album covers,
Speaker 2: But then for a rumor to be about him making
Speaker 2: one that he didn't, that's really bizarre. But that's the
Speaker 2: Internet for you, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I'm pretty positive it wasn't him because other
Speaker 1: people saluted it out and dug up the actual artist.
Speaker 1: And so if you're about to email and say, dude,
Speaker 1: he did Asia, I think.
Speaker 3: He did not.
Speaker 2: No who the guy who actually did it was Phil
Speaker 2: Hartman with two ends, right, that's why people were confused.
Speaker 3: I think. Yeah, good point.
Speaker 2: So around this time, also Phil kicked off and by
Speaker 2: the way, we're on a first name basis with Phil Hartman,
Speaker 2: so we're just going to keep calling him felt. He
Speaker 2: kicked off what would become essentially his trademark for his
Speaker 2: love life, which was he would fall head over heels
Speaker 2: for a very very pretty girl and they would be
Speaker 2: hot and heavy for a while and then he would
Speaker 2: get married and then basically be like, this isn't working
Speaker 2: out after a couple of years. And the first person
Speaker 2: he did that with when he was I think twenty
Speaker 2: one maybe twenty two, was a nineteen year old woman
Speaker 2: from Malibu named Gretchen Lewis, and she got pregnant pretty
Speaker 2: quickly while they started dating, but they didn't keep the kid,
Speaker 2: but they got married after all.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they divorced in nineteen seventy two, so I guess
Speaker 1: either two years or a little under two years. And
Speaker 1: after that he got his first professional stage credit when
Speaker 1: he played Harold Hill and The music Man for the
Speaker 1: Santa Monica Theater Company, and Mike Thomas, the guy who
Speaker 1: wrote the biography, had a quote about from one of
Speaker 1: Phil's co stars in The Music Man that said Phil
Speaker 1: was a true artist. He didn't really march to the
Speaker 1: same drum as other people, although it was a part
Speaker 1: of him that wanted to be perceived as normal. He
Speaker 1: went through life trying to find a character that he
Speaker 1: could present to the public that seemed normal and wholesome.
Speaker 3: And that is also sort.
Speaker 1: Of a repeated theme when you talk to friends and
Speaker 1: colleagues and family over the years, was that no one
Speaker 1: knew the real Phil. And I've known people like that.
Speaker 1: It's an interesting thing to sort of create personas rather
Speaker 1: than be yourself, and that seemed to kind of be
Speaker 1: the case with him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was heavy into impression management basically everywhere in
Speaker 2: his entire life. Oh yeah, in all corners, right.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And also just one thing of his first acting credit
Speaker 2: playing Harold Hill, because he went on to play Lyle
Speaker 2: Landley or Lanley I can't remember which one, who was
Speaker 2: basically the Simpson's version of Harold Hill from The Music
Speaker 2: Man in the Monoail episode M written by Conan O'Brien man. Yeah,
Speaker 2: he was one of the better Simpson writers early on.
Speaker 3: He was.
Speaker 1: But on that thing about not seeing the real Phil,
Speaker 1: there was one friend who later said that there was
Speaker 1: a small room inside Phil that no one will ever
Speaker 1: get to. So just sort of kind of reinforcing that idea.
Speaker 2: And the friends that I hear it stinks of feet.
Speaker 2: Should we take a break, I think it's time. Yeah,
Speaker 2: all right, We're gonna take a break.
Speaker 1: And come back and talk about Phil's entry into the
Speaker 1: Groundlings right after this.
Speaker 2: So, Chuck, we've surely talked about the Groundlings here there
Speaker 2: there's just no way we have n't. But just to refresh,
Speaker 2: they are a sketch and improv comedy troupe founded in
Speaker 2: LA who've basically launched the careers of tons and tons
Speaker 2: of Canadians and including a lot of people on Saturday
Speaker 2: Night Live. Apparently Saturday Night Live drafts heavily from the
Speaker 2: Groundlings Second City and that's it. But some of the
Speaker 2: people from Saturday Night Live who were Groundlings, including some
Speaker 2: who were Groundlings with Phil Hartman, John Lovett's was one
Speaker 2: Cherry Oh, Terry Maya, Rudolph Christen Wigg, Will Ferrell, and
Speaker 2: the list just keeps going on.
Speaker 3: To mention Forte.
Speaker 2: He wasn't on Saturday Night Live though, That's why I
Speaker 2: didn't mention him. What was he?
Speaker 1: Well, Forte was mcgruber, my man.
Speaker 2: Oh, I didn't realize that was a Satay Night Live character,
Speaker 2: Sorry Will, Sorry.
Speaker 3: And the Falconer.
Speaker 2: I didn't realize he was on. Sorry A love I
Speaker 2: thought those were like standalone things.
Speaker 1: No, he I mean, I just mentioned that because Forte
Speaker 1: is one of my all time favorite actors in SNL
Speaker 1: character members, cast members.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, you're both then.
Speaker 1: No, he didn't insult me. I just love Forte.
Speaker 3: He did.
Speaker 1: He did the weirdest characters on that show kind of consistently,
Speaker 1: and I always just respected him for that.
Speaker 2: Nice. Well, that's great. Was he the Last Man on Earth? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, he wastright too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's wonderful. I like him a lot. I like
Speaker 2: him separately, I also like the last Man on Earth,
Speaker 2: so now that the two are joined, I really like
Speaker 2: him even more.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: My only Will Forte experience was I think I've mentioned
Speaker 1: this before, but he was an attendee at a good
Speaker 1: friend's wedding and my friend sat me, sat emily and
Speaker 1: night at his table because he knew I was such
Speaker 1: a fan.
Speaker 3: And I partied all night with wil Forte and he
Speaker 3: was the coolest, funnest dude.
Speaker 2: Oh that's that's a great story.
Speaker 3: Yeah, just a real sweetheart.
Speaker 2: So yeah, so we're talking about the groundlings, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: And this is I don't know, This story doesn't seem
Speaker 2: to be apocryphal. It seems to be actually true. It's
Speaker 2: just exactly how it played out is kind of under question.
Speaker 2: But there was a birthday party that a friend of
Speaker 2: Phil Hartman had. I guess a group of them went
Speaker 2: to a Groundling show and before the show, Phil Hartman
Speaker 2: just decided to get up on stage and start doing
Speaker 2: some of his act.
Speaker 3: Couldn't that be true?
Speaker 2: I don't, I mean somebody who's hungry for the stage.
Speaker 3: I guess, yeah, I guess yeah, sure, right, And.
Speaker 2: So for two hours he had one hundred strangers just
Speaker 2: totally enwrapped. The hot springs developed in the room. But no,
Speaker 2: apparently he definitely killed on stage. And the story is
Speaker 2: that the Groundlings came up to him after he got
Speaker 2: off stage, where like you're in, you want to be in?
Speaker 2: That seems to not be true. It seems to be
Speaker 2: that he went up to them afterwards, like, hey, what
Speaker 2: do you think about me getting an audition now? And
Speaker 2: they said sure, and he went an audition and they
Speaker 2: said you're in.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: See that's the first part of the second part was
Speaker 1: the part that I don't believe, right, because I don't
Speaker 1: see how there's any way at an improv theater. I
Speaker 1: know a lot of people in those theaters over the years,
Speaker 1: and for someone just to jump up on stage and
Speaker 1: do a bit, I bet they would not have been like,
Speaker 1: you're wonderful, can you join? It would have been like, dude,
Speaker 1: don't ever do that again.
Speaker 2: Right exactly, Like if they went up to him afterward,
Speaker 2: they probably would have said like please leave.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So who knows, but it's a good story. I
Speaker 1: would love to eventually to do episodes on the Groundling.
Speaker 1: Second City in UCB is just like a little trifecta suite. Okay,
Speaker 1: great at any rate, no matter how it happened. Tracy Newman,
Speaker 1: who was the founding member of the Groundling, said that
Speaker 1: Phil Hartman walked into the Groundlings ready.
Speaker 2: To go right, and that would also there was a
Speaker 2: similar quote I think from Lorne Michaels years later that
Speaker 2: said he basically was ready the moment he walked in
Speaker 2: this era live too.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: It was just a very dedicated actor and one of
Speaker 2: the people who really looked up to him became one
Speaker 2: of his best friends of fellow Groundling John Lovetz, and
Speaker 2: he was saying that he would he called him the
Speaker 2: King of the Groundlings, which is pretty cool. But as
Speaker 2: his career went on, he became known as like the
Speaker 2: most reliable actor in any group, like he would stick
Speaker 2: to the to the sketch yea even if it was
Speaker 2: going badly, he would hang in there. He wouldn't bail
Speaker 2: on it. He would just keep going into the end.
Speaker 2: And usually from the impression I have is that if
Speaker 2: he was in a sketch, if it would have gone
Speaker 2: badly otherwise if other people were in it, if he
Speaker 2: was in it, it probably wasn't going badly in the
Speaker 2: first place, which makes it easier to stick to.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he just seemed kind of unflappable. Well, we'll talk
Speaker 1: about some messenal stuff in a bit, but yeah, well
Speaker 1: I'll to savor it for then. But one of his
Speaker 1: most popular Groundlings characters was Chick Hazard, who was the
Speaker 1: hard boiled detective like out of the film Noir, And
Speaker 1: that's a character that he would sort of reprise in
Speaker 1: different ways over the years.
Speaker 3: He was a good He was just good.
Speaker 1: With his mouth and good with words, and could just
Speaker 1: rattle off really complex, long strings of comedic dialogue like
Speaker 1: you know, pitch perfect without missing a beat, and just
Speaker 1: just very very skilled, like some people are funny and
Speaker 1: some people are super skilled, and he was one that
Speaker 1: was both.
Speaker 2: Right. Yeah, well, put Chuck. I think we can end
Speaker 2: the podcast.
Speaker 3: Thing, or we should talk about his second marriage okay.
Speaker 2: Well, well, first though, we should say he was with
Speaker 2: the Groundlings for eleven years, and that is quite a
Speaker 2: while for being a member of a sketch comedy troupe,
Speaker 2: including one that doesn't it doesn't have a TV show
Speaker 2: or anything. It's like a live theater group. It's a
Speaker 2: long time. But I think that's kind of like an
Speaker 2: indicator of the dedication that he brought to acting. Comedy, Yeah,
Speaker 2: comedic acting, I'm not sure. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, he didn't sort of make it in the
Speaker 1: public eye until he was in his late thirties, and
Speaker 1: that's just a long time to hang in there. Yes,
Speaker 1: especially in comedy. It's not like late thirties as old.
Speaker 1: But if you haven't made it by that time as
Speaker 1: an actor or comedian or something, you're probably sort of wondering, like, well,
Speaker 1: should I tick up?
Speaker 3: You know, surfing again.
Speaker 2: Right to those stuff you should know. Listeners out there
Speaker 2: in your late thirties trying to break into acting still
Speaker 2: do not be discouraged by what Chuck just said. Just
Speaker 2: keep going, guys.
Speaker 1: You'll start surfing. I mean I didn't get into my
Speaker 1: career until my late thirties and didn't get really success
Speaker 1: until my forties, so I'm living. I mean, you're younger
Speaker 1: than me, so you are just a pup.
Speaker 2: No, that's not true. I was in my mid thirties
Speaker 2: when things started to pick up, for sure.
Speaker 1: But I mean, it's funny that I said that, because
Speaker 1: we're good examples of like, hey, you never know it's
Speaker 1: coming around the corner.
Speaker 2: Oh, that's absolutely true. Boy, I could tell you some
Speaker 2: stories of times when I thought this life is not
Speaker 2: going to work out for me.
Speaker 3: Oh boy, you with me both man, So we said.
Speaker 2: That he got He split up with his first wife,
Speaker 2: Kretchen in nineteen seventy two. He did the bachelor thing
Speaker 2: for about another decade, and he ran into a woman
Speaker 2: named Lisa Jarvis. I'm not sure how they met or
Speaker 2: even necessarily when, but I know in nineteen eighty two
Speaker 2: they got married, ten years after his last divorce, and
Speaker 2: it basically followed the same pattern as his first marriage.
Speaker 2: He just like, it just was like fireworks and then
Speaker 2: it cooled off and then he lost interest.
Speaker 1: Yeah, their marriage only lasted a few years. They divorced
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty five, the same year that he ended
Speaker 1: up having some of his first big successes, and that
Speaker 1: was because five years prior.
Speaker 3: A guy walks.
Speaker 1: Into the Groundlings in nineteen eighty named Paul Rubens with
Speaker 1: a character named pee Wee Herman under his arm or
Speaker 1: under his belt.
Speaker 2: Yeah, have you seen the documentary yet?
Speaker 1: Still have not since you asked me yesterday.
Speaker 2: I know, I thought maybe you would have gone and
Speaker 2: watched it last night or something, But okay.
Speaker 3: It's so close to being on my TV. He had
Speaker 3: no idea.
Speaker 2: It's really good. But so there's a lot about him
Speaker 2: developing the pee wee Herman character Paul Rubins at the
Speaker 2: Groundlings with a lot of help from other Groundlings. Apparently
Speaker 2: they show some of the early stuff on this documentary.
Speaker 2: He was much more like obnoxious. He threw tootsie rolls
Speaker 2: at the crowd, he would insult the crowd.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 2: And then even after he kind of started to get
Speaker 2: pee wee like developed, those early stage shows were full
Speaker 2: of like sexual innuindow and stuff that a little kid
Speaker 2: wouldn't pick up on but adults would find funny. But
Speaker 2: there weren't little kids at these shows anyway, so it
Speaker 2: didn't matter right right. But one of the people, my
Speaker 2: point was, that really helped develop it was Phil Hartman,
Speaker 2: And I think even up to the first season of
Speaker 2: pee Wee's Playhouse. He played Captain Carl. His character was
Speaker 2: he played a character on Peewee's Playhouse for the first season.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the surly boat, Captain, Captain Carl. There were other
Speaker 1: Groundlings around as well, either you know, in the show
Speaker 1: with him or writing for him, and Phil was one
Speaker 1: of the writers as well, and they were selling out
Speaker 1: every night. They ended up at the Groundlings. They ended
Speaker 1: up moving to the Roxy Theater, which was a little
Speaker 1: bit bigger the which we talked about in our Sunset
Speaker 1: Boulevard episode. Yeah, and or if it hasn't come out yet,
Speaker 1: we will talk about it on that episode.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then in nineteen eighty there was a producer named
Speaker 1: Paula Kaufman who said she wanted to create a kid
Speaker 1: show for adults. Saw Peewee at the Groundlings and was like,
Speaker 1: this is it.
Speaker 3: This is the show.
Speaker 2: Yeah again this documentary so like this particular part when
Speaker 2: they're developing the TV show is yeah, it's just not
Speaker 2: so amazing, right.
Speaker 3: I can't wait.
Speaker 2: So Phil was there when Paul Rubins did an HBO special.
Speaker 2: It was essentially one one, I guess an HBO version
Speaker 2: of the stage show that it started out as that
Speaker 2: caught the attention of other people in Hollywood, and they said, hey,
Speaker 2: how about a movie, and they did Pee Wee's Big
Speaker 2: Adventure together. Phil Hartman was a co writer on that,
Speaker 2: and that was nineteen eighty five, and so things are
Speaker 2: finally starting to pick up in ways that Phil Hartman
Speaker 2: had been hoping. Like he'd been writing scripts, he'd been
Speaker 2: auditioning for TV shows. Now all of a sudden he
Speaker 2: had a hit movie writing credit under his belt, so
Speaker 2: he's thinking, okay, things are about to take off, which
Speaker 2: explains why in nineteen eighty five, when Louren Michaels came
Speaker 2: to him and said, hey, do you want to audition
Speaker 2: for Saturday Night Live? He said, now, I'm good, I'm
Speaker 2: going to pass on that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this was Lorne Michael's return to SNL. He very
Speaker 1: famously had an absence from the show and the show
Speaker 1: kind of did not farewell without Lorne Michaels a creator.
Speaker 2: You weren't some of the Tim Kazerinski years.
Speaker 1: I mean no, some of that stuff is okay, but
Speaker 1: just as a general success, the show was kind of
Speaker 1: going downhill. Yeah, but I did I get your joke?
Speaker 1: First of all Tim Katzerinsky. He was funny though I
Speaker 1: like that.
Speaker 2: Oh no, he was. He was like perfect for the
Speaker 2: characters he played, like on Police Academy. I can't remember
Speaker 2: his Yeah, he was crazy, the same guy.
Speaker 3: I forgot about that.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: But Lauren came back to save this, saved the show.
Speaker 1: In eighty five eighty six, he again, like you said,
Speaker 1: asked Phil to come aboard. He said no because he was,
Speaker 1: you know, he thought he could make it as an actor,
Speaker 1: you know, in just regular comedies. And John Lovitz joined instead,
Speaker 1: and then John Lovett's got him another audition in eighty
Speaker 1: for the eighty six eighty seven season.
Speaker 3: He went in.
Speaker 1: He had already met Lorna a couple of times. One
Speaker 1: when he met Lauren Michaels.
Speaker 3: I believe that the.
Speaker 1: I think when when Rubens hosted SNL for the first time, Yes,
Speaker 1: is when he first met Lauren. But then he was
Speaker 1: also had a small part in Three Amigos, which Lauren produced.
Speaker 1: And then if you ever have a chance, just sit
Speaker 1: down on YouTube and watch the Phil Hartman audition for SNL.
Speaker 1: He did that chick Hazard character. First, he did one
Speaker 1: of the fake commercials, and that's where you can tell
Speaker 1: just how skilledy is because it's one of those fast
Speaker 1: talking commercials where he's talking like this about a product,
Speaker 1: but it's not you know, he's not reading Q cards.
Speaker 1: It's just in his brain and memorize and he just
Speaker 1: it's flawless. And you hear something that you just never
Speaker 1: hear in an SNL audition, which is people laughing. They're
Speaker 1: very famous for just sort of sitting there stonefaced. Yeah,
Speaker 1: even if you're doing well and you hear people laughing
Speaker 1: in the background.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, that is very telling for sure. So there's
Speaker 2: one part of his audition real where he does an
Speaker 2: impression of a German comedian doing impressions of famous people.
Speaker 3: It was so good.
Speaker 2: He said the most fa the funniest man in Germany,
Speaker 2: Gunter Johann, Right, Yeah, And so Guter does impressions of
Speaker 2: like Jack Nicholson, John Wayne, Jack Benny, but they're all
Speaker 2: speaking German, and it's just like a spot on impression
Speaker 2: of John Wayne, Yeah, speaking German, and he's doing a
Speaker 2: German an impression of a German comedian doing these impressions.
Speaker 2: It's just amazing. He goes right into it. Yeah, it
Speaker 2: really does show off his talent. Plus it's also hilarious too.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: You know a lot of times when you talk about
Speaker 2: people being funny, it loses its funniness.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so just go watch it. Yeah, agreed, totally agree.
Speaker 1: He was hired with Pretty Rockstar cast on all new
Speaker 1: members Jan Hook, Stana Carvey, Victoria Jackson.
Speaker 3: And Kevin nealon Man.
Speaker 2: What a dream team.
Speaker 1: Yeah, pretty good, and that really kind of helped bring
Speaker 1: the show back.
Speaker 2: And how I mean, to me, that's like the Golden Age.
Speaker 2: I think it destroys the seventies. The seventies was cool
Speaker 2: and like amazing and you know, really energetic, but the
Speaker 2: eighties were just like pro okay to me. Okay, So
Speaker 2: it could be just that's the one I grew up with.
Speaker 2: Who knows, But.
Speaker 1: I mean there is that theory that whatever age you
Speaker 1: were in high school I think is your favorite, the
Speaker 1: way you think is the best SNL cast.
Speaker 2: Okay, well I might subscribe to that theory.
Speaker 3: No, I love I love that era.
Speaker 2: So let's back up a second, because you said that
Speaker 2: he met Lauren. Phil Hartman met Lauren Michaels when Paul
Speaker 2: Rubens pee Wee hosted Saturday Night Live in nineteen eighty five,
Speaker 2: and the reason that he was there was because Paul
Speaker 2: Rubins brought Phil Hartman along in another collaborator from the Groundlings,
Speaker 2: John Parragon, as his his writers to work with the
Speaker 2: Saturday Night Live writers to make good sketches for pee
Speaker 2: Wee Herman for that episode. Right, so pee Wee or
Speaker 2: Paul introduced Phil to Lauren. Lauren comes to call in
Speaker 2: the next year and the year after that, and eventually
Speaker 2: Phil says, Hey, Paul, I've got to go. I finally
Speaker 2: got my break. I'm going on a Saturday Night Live.
Speaker 2: And Paul was not happy about that. If you've seen
Speaker 2: the documentary, which I know you haven't, I watched it
Speaker 2: real quick, just now, okay, so you know, then they
Speaker 2: covered this in the documentary. Apparently it's not a very
Speaker 2: well known or it's kind of a forgotten story. But
Speaker 2: they had a falling out and they didn't really talk
Speaker 2: or ever reconcile for the rest of Phil Hartman's life
Speaker 2: because Paul was and there's really no other way to
Speaker 2: put it, very very jealous. He felt spurred, jilted, spurned, jilted,
Speaker 2: spurred to action, and he was also yeah, very jealous
Speaker 2: because he had tried out for Saturday Night Live and
Speaker 2: did not get picked up, and I can't remember who
Speaker 2: got the spot instead of him. And then yeah, and
Speaker 2: then Phil Hartman left Pee Wee's Playhouse two goes Saturday
Speaker 2: Night Live. So Paul was kind of a not the
Speaker 2: most forgiving person from what I can tell from the documentary,
Speaker 2: So he just held that grudge for the rest of
Speaker 2: Phil Hartman's life.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Man, that's sad.
Speaker 2: It is sad, for sure.
Speaker 3: I hate hearing that.
Speaker 1: I might pause that part or skip over it when
Speaker 1: I watch the documentary to.
Speaker 2: Okay, it's at one twenty three thirty six is when
Speaker 2: it starts.
Speaker 3: Shall we take our final break? Yeah, all right, let's
Speaker 3: take another break.
Speaker 1: And we'll talk about a meeting in nineteen eighty five
Speaker 1: that would change the course of Phil Hartman's life right
Speaker 1: after this, all right, As promised, a meeting in nineteen
Speaker 1: eighty five would change the course of Phil Artman's life.
Speaker 1: And that is when Phil met a woman named Brinn
Speaker 1: Amdahl at a party. She was a tall, beautiful blonde
Speaker 1: from Minnesota but moved to la to be a model
Speaker 1: or an actress or both, and previous to meeting him
Speaker 1: in the late seventies and early eighties, she had an
Speaker 1: alcohol problem, she had a cocaine problem, but had gotten sober,
Speaker 1: to her credit, and was looking for a good dude
Speaker 1: to hook up with. And when she met Phil, he
Speaker 1: was this is sort of right before pee Wee's big
Speaker 1: adventure came out and he got the offer to you know,
Speaker 1: be on SNL. So he was at a pretty low
Speaker 1: point auditioning and his coming out of that second marriage,
Speaker 1: and so he was like, all right, this beautiful woman
Speaker 1: loves me and then maybe validates me in a certain way.
Speaker 3: And so they got together.
Speaker 2: They did and it was just like all the other ones,
Speaker 2: except this one was like when it burned red hot,
Speaker 2: that could also be really bad too. Yeah, it wasn't
Speaker 2: just like two people super into each other. Also, two
Speaker 2: people who like couldn't couldn't like just just clashed a lot, right,
Speaker 2: So they were get in really big fights and then
Speaker 2: they would make up, and they would get in another
Speaker 2: fight and then they would make up. And despite this
Speaker 2: early on, they still ended up getting married and went
Speaker 2: on to have two kids, Sean and Bergen. I think
Speaker 2: Sean was the oldest and he was the boy and
Speaker 2: Bergen was their little girl. And from all accounts, like
Speaker 2: Brynn was a really good mom and really loved Phil Hartman.
Speaker 2: But there was a huge issue in that she was
Speaker 2: an aspiring actress and she wanted to I think she
Speaker 2: wanted Phil to help her career more than he was
Speaker 2: comfortable helping it. Yeah, and I totally get this. He
Speaker 2: was not the kind to like be like, hey, can
Speaker 2: you get my wife on your show? Or you know,
Speaker 2: have you seen my wife actually's great, why don't you
Speaker 2: give her a shot? He just would not do something
Speaker 2: like that, right, So that then and there caused some
Speaker 2: pretty serious static between the two. And then on top
Speaker 2: of that, after they got together, his career actually started
Speaker 2: taking off. So in addition to him not helping her,
Speaker 2: she was like living in his shadow. So that was
Speaker 2: a big source of conflict between the two.
Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1: So he's got this marriage that starts, you know, that's
Speaker 1: you know, rocky, like his other relationships had been, but
Speaker 1: it has staying power more than the others. He was
Speaker 1: thirty seven when SNL started, right kind of when they
Speaker 1: got together, and his nickname on SNL was the Glue.
Speaker 1: You kind of talked earlier about how he was always
Speaker 1: sort of looked at as a stabilizing force in the
Speaker 1: Groundlings and SNL and his nickname was the Glue because
Speaker 1: he was just perfect basically whenever he performed. We got
Speaker 1: to talk about some of his best characters. Phil Donahue
Speaker 1: was one of my favorites. When he did Phil ed McMahon.
Speaker 1: Of course, the aforementioned Ed McMahon was one of my favorites.
Speaker 1: I really, for some reason loved the Frankenstein Tonto Tarzan
Speaker 1: Vin that he and Kevin Neilan and John Lobbittz did.
Speaker 2: And then they did Little Drummer Boy.
Speaker 1: It was so silly, but I loved it.
Speaker 2: It's pretty good.
Speaker 1: He was Frankenstein, right, Yeah, he was Frankenstein. I think
Speaker 1: Lovevitz was Tanto when Neilan was Tarzan.
Speaker 3: If you haven't seen it, look it up.
Speaker 1: But basically the whole point is none of them speak English,
Speaker 1: and so they would do like Christmas songs and Frankens.
Speaker 3: I would just go.
Speaker 1: And Luvitz did Tanto, and you know, looking back, it
Speaker 1: was probably a fairly racist depiction of a Native American.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then you said Neilan was Tarzan.
Speaker 1: And I don't even know what Tarzan did, probably just
Speaker 1: like jungle grunting.
Speaker 2: It was very good. I mean like basically we used
Speaker 2: to sit here for the rest of the episode and
Speaker 2: talk about Phil Hartman's sketches because each one was better
Speaker 2: than the last. Like unfrozen caveman lawyer. Yeah, first of all,
Speaker 2: what a what like just an exceptional idea to start with,
Speaker 2: but he's he just pulls it off so perfectly, this
Speaker 2: smarmy lawyer who's an unfrozen caveman who went to law
Speaker 2: school and became a smarmy I guess a personal injury lawyer.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 2: And again, like we can talk it out and it
Speaker 2: will kill any funniness to it. Just go watch that one.
Speaker 2: Go look up Colon Blow the Saturday Live commercial.
Speaker 3: Yeah, class it is.
Speaker 2: And uh then Ronald Reagan mastermind? Did you watch that one?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I remember. I didn't rewatch it, but I
Speaker 1: remembered it.
Speaker 2: I rewatched it and I remembered it. It came out
Speaker 2: around the time the Iran Contra affair scandal broke, and
Speaker 2: at the time Ronald Reagan was like, I don't know anything,
Speaker 2: Like I didn't I didn't know who knows who knew,
Speaker 2: Like I didn't know this was going on. So they
Speaker 2: make fun of him and his public persona just kind
Speaker 2: of being this doddering old man who does doesn't really
Speaker 2: have his finger on the pulse of his own administration
Speaker 2: to this when people aren't and it's just him and
Speaker 2: his staff him just like barking orders and being totally
Speaker 2: super sharp and being the mastermind behind everything it's in
Speaker 2: like the his just turning public Reagan on and off
Speaker 2: and then turning that private like aggressive Reagan on and off.
Speaker 3: It's just I mean, like.
Speaker 2: You really see, like this guy was amazing, like like
Speaker 2: one of a kind. Basically I can't think of anybody
Speaker 2: who could do the stuff that he did. But before
Speaker 2: him or since.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, absolutely well said he would go on
Speaker 1: to do another president very famously in ninety two when
Speaker 1: Bill Clinton won the presidency and he had a just
Speaker 1: a dead on Clinton impersonation, just not only the voice,
Speaker 1: but just his sort of the smarmy kind of Bill
Speaker 1: Clinton thing and the ego. Like they lampooned him very
Speaker 1: very well, very effectively.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's one where he was jogging into a McDonald's
Speaker 2: while he was running for president, doing like a campaign stop,
Speaker 2: and he's like, you know, about to kiss a baby,
Speaker 2: and he looks the baby and says to the mom like, Hey,
Speaker 2: are you gonna eat the rest of those French fries?
Speaker 2: And it just goes from there. Oh my god, it's perfect.
Speaker 2: So one of the things about Saturday Night Live that
Speaker 2: I learned, even as a young viewer, if you were
Speaker 2: on beyond a certain number of years, it starts to
Speaker 2: have a certain kind of look like it kind of
Speaker 2: shows the world like you are perfect for Saturday Night Live,
Speaker 2: but for some reason it's not clicking outside of that.
Speaker 2: So you just hang in there as long as you
Speaker 2: can at Saturday Night Live. And what's astounding and nuts
Speaker 2: is that that happened to Phil Hartman. He was there
Speaker 2: through a couple of cast changes, like big time, huge
Speaker 2: cast changes where it went from like Kevin Ewan and
Speaker 2: Jan Hooks to Chris Farley and David Spade and Chris
Speaker 2: Rock too at the same time as well. I think
Speaker 2: Sarah Silverman came in around that time too, So like
Speaker 2: he was in for a huge transition. He straddled two
Speaker 2: big transitions of Saturday Night Live. And that's just like
Speaker 2: with the Groundlings, this is a really long time to
Speaker 2: be a member of Live. And I think he felt
Speaker 2: overlooked because a lot of his colleagues were starting to
Speaker 2: get their own movies and he was not.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean he was on for eight seasons. Over
Speaker 1: those eight seasons he did, he was in more sketches
Speaker 1: than any other cast member. When he retired from SNL,
Speaker 1: they gave him on the show. They gave him a
Speaker 1: little statue of an Elmer's glue, like a fixed to
Speaker 1: a trophy kind of thing mm hm, because of his
Speaker 1: nickname the Glue. But yeah, he definitely was getting side
Speaker 1: parts in these movies, like he was in So I
Speaker 1: Married an Axe Murderer. He was in Cone Heads, but
Speaker 1: he wasn't the star. And by the time he was
Speaker 1: Rock and Sandler and those guys came along. In Farley,
Speaker 1: he was in his forties and he was kind of
Speaker 1: playing the straight man roles, like the old man of
Speaker 1: the family. One you know, sort of obvious example is
Speaker 1: the Matt Foley, you know, living in a van down
Speaker 1: by the river, the motivational Speaker sketch. Phil Hartman was
Speaker 1: the dad, and you know, no one remembers that because
Speaker 1: everyone remembers Chris Farley. Quick aside, that sketch was created
Speaker 1: and written by Bob Odenkirk.
Speaker 2: Oh I forgot. He wrote for Sarah Live too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the reason I know that is because I
Speaker 1: watch Kevin. I followed Kevin Nelon on Instagram and he
Speaker 1: does this. I don't know if he releases them as
Speaker 1: a podcast, I'm gonna have to look. But he does
Speaker 1: these hikes through one of the you know canyons there
Speaker 1: in LA in the Hollywood Hills, and he interviews people
Speaker 1: on these hikes. And he was interviewing Bob Odenkirk and
Speaker 1: they were talking about that sketch.
Speaker 2: That's awesome.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's cool.
Speaker 2: It is a great sketch, but you can kind of
Speaker 2: see how, like Phil Hartman's Super Pro really contained and
Speaker 2: perfect delivery and style, it doesn't jibe well unless he's
Speaker 2: just playing it straight to somebody like Farley just going berserk, right,
Speaker 2: you know, totally. So yeah, he finally he left. He
Speaker 2: left on great terms. He just killed Sarah Night Live.
Speaker 2: He became a legend on Saturday Night Live, and he
Speaker 2: went on to still have a pretty great career. He
Speaker 2: went on to do four seasons of News Radio, which
Speaker 2: is one of its great underrated office comedies, along with
Speaker 2: working the one that Fred Savage was into Jerversey. That
Speaker 2: one no, it was good and Just Shoot Me is
Speaker 2: the other underrated office comedy of all time. I think
Speaker 2: from the nineties at least. But he was on four
Speaker 2: episodes of news Radio, had a great character for seasons.
Speaker 3: Yeah for what I say, episodes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, seasons for sure, had a great character Bill McNeil,
Speaker 2: and he just basically picked up a second part of
Speaker 2: his career. And then also simultaneously he was doing The
Speaker 2: Simpsons too, which is where a lot of people fell
Speaker 2: in love with Phil Hartman.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just a little show called The Simpsons. He was
Speaker 1: asked in nineteen ninety to do some voiceover work for
Speaker 1: that show, and he said, yeah, I'll do it, but
Speaker 1: just one time, because he apparently had a pretty bad
Speaker 1: experience doing voiceover for animation for the Dennis the Menace
Speaker 1: animated show. I remember that, but he said I'll do
Speaker 1: it just once. But then, of course that didn't last
Speaker 1: because he was great on it, and he started working
Speaker 1: with the writers, started developing characters, and for eight seasons
Speaker 1: he voiced some of the most iconic characters. Of course,
Speaker 1: the great Troy McClure and lineal Lot's attorney at law
Speaker 1: are the two sort of most notable because you know
Speaker 1: they would come on as their little side bits here
Speaker 1: and there, but Troy McClure actually ended up getting a
Speaker 1: pretty major storyline when he hooked up with Which one
Speaker 1: was it.
Speaker 2: I think Patty.
Speaker 1: I don't remember one of Marge's two sisters. I couldn't
Speaker 1: remember if it was Patty or.
Speaker 3: Selma. Yeah, that's right, but it was one of them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they fell in love, and that's from One of
Speaker 1: my favorite lines from Troy McClure was after they went
Speaker 1: out on a date, he sees her the next day
Speaker 1: and his famous line was you may remember me from
Speaker 1: whatever like acting role that he was in, and in
Speaker 1: this case, he said, I'm Troy McClure. You may remember
Speaker 1: me from certain dates like last night.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was well known for that. You may remember
Speaker 2: me from such educational films as The Decapitation of Larry
Speaker 2: leadfoot Man or Here Comes the Metric System.
Speaker 3: Yeah. He was great.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and like he had one episode where he was big,
Speaker 2: but the rest of the time it was just, like
Speaker 2: you said, a little side thing. And he still created
Speaker 2: a legendary character times two and as a matter of fact,
Speaker 2: when he died, The Simpsons are like Lionel Hutts and
Speaker 2: Troy mccluar will never appear on The Simpsons again. They
Speaker 2: just couldn't. No one else could do it. Yeah, So
Speaker 2: speaking of him dying, this is gonna go long because
Speaker 2: this is kind of an involved story. But he, like
Speaker 2: I said, he and Brynn had a lot of tension.
Speaker 2: Apparently phil Harmon had an anxious, avoidant attachment style. When
Speaker 2: she wanted to talk, when she was confrontational, he would
Speaker 2: basically get in a sailboat and sail off to Catalina
Speaker 2: Island alone. I take it, but he was just he
Speaker 2: would withdraw. You couldn't get to him. That was the
Speaker 2: way that he dealt with it. And she did not
Speaker 2: like that. I think it made her feel very lonely.
Speaker 2: And then again she was living in a shadow. He
Speaker 2: wasn't helping her career. They had two kids, and again
Speaker 2: she was a really really good mom by all accounts.
Speaker 2: She also had some former demons that she had conquered,
Speaker 2: including an alcohol addiction and an addiction to cocaine. And
Speaker 2: she was clean when she and Phil met, and she
Speaker 2: stayed clean for a while, but she got back on
Speaker 2: the cocaine train after she did coke with Andy Dick
Speaker 2: at a news radio party Christmas party in nineteen ninety seven.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, we don't know if that's the first
Speaker 1: time she started back again. But as the story goes,
Speaker 1: he offered her cocaine. He said that he didn't know
Speaker 1: that she had had a drug problem before, did not
Speaker 1: know that apparently she had been clean. And John Lovetts
Speaker 1: for many, many years was very public about blaming Andy Dick,
Speaker 1: you know, for her falling off the wagon, and it
Speaker 1: led to a crazy story where in two thousand and seven,
Speaker 1: John lovettzs assaulted Andy Dick at the laugh Factory and
Speaker 1: like got into a I mean, I was gonna say
Speaker 1: a fist fight, but it doesn't sound like it was punchy,
Speaker 1: but more John Lovett's, at least as the way he
Speaker 1: tells it, ramming Andy Dick's head back into the bar
Speaker 1: like repeatedly and said I would have kept doing it too,
Speaker 1: but the bartender stepped in.
Speaker 2: I'm frenchie. Yeah. He apparently he took over for Phil
Speaker 2: Hartman after Phil Hartman died on news radio, and one
Speaker 2: of the first days he said to Andy Dick, I
Speaker 2: wouldn't be here if you hadn't a given cocaine to
Speaker 2: Brent so he blamed Andy Dick for the death of
Speaker 2: Bryn and Phil. So Andy Dick didn't like that. Later
Speaker 2: on he said he saw they saw each other at
Speaker 2: a restaurant and he said, I put the Phil Hartman
Speaker 2: hex on you. You're the next to die. And then
Speaker 2: the next time they saw each other is when John
Speaker 2: Lovettz beat up Andy Dick, which I mean had no
Speaker 2: idea about that, did you.
Speaker 1: No, I didn't know that story until today or yesterday
Speaker 1: or whenever you send it over, which is just one
Speaker 1: of those crazy stories, but very sadly. It was May
Speaker 1: twenty seventh, and you know, we should say Brent. At
Speaker 1: this point, she was upset about Phil's.
Speaker 3: You know, smoking too much weed.
Speaker 1: She was had an anxiety problem, she was suffering through
Speaker 1: some depression. She got on antidepressants, started drinking again. Not
Speaker 1: sure who started the cocaine thing, maybe Andy Dick, but
Speaker 1: she got back into cocaine and was in a pretty
Speaker 1: bad state of mind. And on May twenty seventh, nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety eight, she had gone out for drinks at an
Speaker 1: Italian restaurant and wanted to go to another bar, but
Speaker 1: her friend didn't want to, so she called up her
Speaker 1: old drug and buddy from the seventies and early eighties
Speaker 1: got named Doug, and Doug was clean now, but said,
Speaker 1: why don't you come over to my house. She had
Speaker 1: some more drinks over there and was basically complaining about
Speaker 1: her marriage, about Phil smoking too much pot and then
Speaker 1: not getting along and you know, being just at loose ends.
Speaker 1: At one in the morning, He's like, you know, you
Speaker 1: need to go home. You need to go home to
Speaker 1: your husband.
Speaker 2: So she did. I don't think she had much of
Speaker 2: a choice. Doug was like, you gotta leave, and I
Speaker 2: guess when she got home. Shortly after that, she and
Speaker 2: Phil got into an argument. Phil went off to bed,
Speaker 2: managed to fall asleep, and remember bren is on Doloft,
Speaker 2: has been drinking for hours now and is on cocaine.
Speaker 2: And she went and got one of their guns, thirty
Speaker 2: eight special, and walked up to Phil while he was
Speaker 2: sleeping and shot him three times, once in the head.
Speaker 2: And I never saw if he woke up or if
Speaker 2: he even knew it happened. Hopefully not, and he just
Speaker 2: died while he was asleep. That would be what I
Speaker 2: would hope. But he died instantly because he was shot
Speaker 2: three times at close range.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So About an hour after that, she called up
Speaker 1: her friend Doug, who she was just with. She was
Speaker 1: super drunk at this point. Doug said, you needed to
Speaker 1: sleep this off. Didn't tell him at that point when
Speaker 1: it happened, And about twenty minutes later, she shows up
Speaker 1: back at Doug's house saying that she'd killed Phil and
Speaker 1: he doesn't believe her. And then apparently, as the story goes,
Speaker 1: while she was there, the gun fell out of her
Speaker 1: purse and he was like, what is going on? He
Speaker 1: helps her sober up over the course of a couple
Speaker 1: of hours, drives her back over at about six in
Speaker 1: the morning to their house and he sees Phil dead
Speaker 1: and he calls the cops and at that point Brn
Speaker 1: locks herself in the bedroom with Phil's body, and that's
Speaker 1: where she was when the cops arrived.
Speaker 2: Yeah, both of their kids were in the house at
Speaker 2: the time. I think. Yeah, Sean, the oldest, woke up
Speaker 2: and Doug was like, let's get you out of here,
Speaker 2: and took Sean outside to the police. But the whole
Speaker 2: time Bergen's sleeping to like her mom just murdered her dad,
Speaker 2: and then it just gets worse.
Speaker 1: Actually, Yeah, so she is barricaded in the room with Phil.
Speaker 3: The cops are there.
Speaker 1: She's making phone calls to friends and family saying, you know,
Speaker 1: confessing basically to what she had done. And finally, her
Speaker 1: last call was to her sister Kathy. She said, take
Speaker 1: care of my children. Just let them know how much
Speaker 1: I love them. She got a second gun and laid
Speaker 1: down on the bed next to Phil and shot herself
Speaker 1: and killed herself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and became one of the most hated people in America,
Speaker 2: if not the world, almost overnight. I remember eating her
Speaker 2: guts when I heard about this. Me too, as an
Speaker 2: older person, I have a little more empathy for just
Speaker 2: the amount of loneliness and then also being on antidepressants,
Speaker 2: cocaine and alcohol definitely is not a good combination, especially
Speaker 2: when you have guns in the house. But yeah, I've
Speaker 2: changed my approach to her a little bit, and I
Speaker 2: was kind of happy to read that. At the at
Speaker 2: the funeral, Phil's brother John was asking the people in attendance, like,
Speaker 2: please try to find it in your heart to forgive
Speaker 2: for this, Like this was this was a horrible thing,
Speaker 2: but it's not like she was evil. She was a loving,
Speaker 2: a loving wife and a loving mother, and like, let's
Speaker 2: try to remember her.
Speaker 1: For that, Yeah, for sure, and especially at the funeral
Speaker 1: to have the guts to say something like that was
Speaker 1: pretty stand up thing to do.
Speaker 3: I think.
Speaker 1: Yeah, a good like life lesson there. Phil was he
Speaker 1: was going to come back to news radio. It's not
Speaker 1: like he was done with the show. He was going
Speaker 1: to come back for season five. But like you mentioned,
Speaker 1: John Lobvitz took over. The first episode of season five
Speaker 1: dealt with the death of the character. It's called Bill
Speaker 1: moves On. Yeah, very emotional episode. And I think you
Speaker 1: already mentioned that they you know, The Simpsons, was like,
Speaker 1: we're never ever going to get someone to do Troy
Speaker 1: McClure Lionel Huts again.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's true. And then he finally got his star
Speaker 2: on the Walk of Fame in twenty fourteen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we should mention Bryn's sister Kathy respected her
Speaker 1: wishes and she's who raised the kids.
Speaker 3: Yeah, along with her husband.
Speaker 2: Yeap, So good for her. Yeah for them. That's Phil Hartman.
Speaker 2: One of the sad outcomes of all this, Chuck, I think,
Speaker 2: is when you search Phil Hartman, just Phil Hartman, most
Speaker 2: of what comes up on the first couple pages of
Speaker 2: search engines is about the murder. Yeah, yeah, not like
Speaker 2: look at all the hilarious stuff he did. So maybe
Speaker 2: look up Phil Hartman SNL videos and just go from
Speaker 2: there totally. And that's all we have to say about
Speaker 2: Phil Hartman for now. So I guess Chuck, it's time
Speaker 2: for listener mail.
Speaker 1: This is from Katie Josiah, a six month old baby.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, and Chris, this is amazing, guys.
Speaker 1: My wife and I were just listening to the William A.
Speaker 1: Mitchell story from a few weeks ago. We heard that
Speaker 1: Bill was the inventor of tang. My wife is from Georgia,
Speaker 1: but I'm from the Midwest, so we always like to
Speaker 1: talk about things we grew up with, different foods and traditions, restaurants, etc.
Speaker 1: And how they were similar or sometimes very different. Well,
Speaker 1: I found out that I consumed tang in a very
Speaker 1: unique way. Apparently hot no.
Speaker 2: I thought he was going to say, right up the nose.
Speaker 1: When I was young, in the winter months in Ohio,
Speaker 1: my dad would warm up the kettle and mix tang
Speaker 1: and boiling water was a warm drink that we can
Speaker 1: have whenever we played out in the snow, and my
Speaker 1: sister and I loved it, and he called it hot tang,
Speaker 1: and I just thought all tang was consumed hot, which
Speaker 1: is pretty funny. I've actually never drank cold or even
Speaker 1: room temperature tang. Hope all is well with you and
Speaker 1: yours with love from North Georgia, Katie, Josiah six months
Speaker 1: old and Chris.
Speaker 2: I would try that, especially with like a cinnamon stick.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it sounds like a you ever have, like theraflu
Speaker 1: or something when you're sick, man hot or hot Toddy.
Speaker 2: I love the taste of theraflu so much. I would
Speaker 2: drink it once in a while when I'm not sick.
Speaker 3: It really puts you to sleep, man, it really does,
Speaker 3: if you get the good stuff. I too love theraflu.
Speaker 2: The warning on the box about your liver is it
Speaker 2: scares me, so I only do it once in a while.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean we should get them on as a sponsor, man.
Speaker 2: We should. We should drink it on the podcast once
Speaker 2: in a while.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: But I bet tang Hot Tang is pretty similar and a.
Speaker 3: Bit a little whiskey in there. I would be pretty good.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, don't get Katie started this, or at least
Speaker 2: it's only six months old.
Speaker 3: No, the Katie is the wife.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, Well, who is six months old?
Speaker 3: What was it? Josiah?
Speaker 2: Oh? Okay, I thought Katie's last name was Josiah. I
Speaker 2: see there was a comment in there that I wasn't
Speaker 2: aware of.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Chris wrote the letter right, he married Katie.
Speaker 1: Okay, and they had Josiah six months ago.
Speaker 2: Okay, gotcha. Well, I guess I should just say congratulations
Speaker 2: to Katie and John.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for Josiah and everything else.
Speaker 2: There you go. Yeah, and thank you also for sending
Speaker 2: the email. That was a great one. Hot tang sounds wonderful.
Speaker 2: We'll go try it. And if you want to be
Speaker 2: like Katie, Josiah and Chris, who I may have just
Speaker 2: called John, I'm not sure, you can send us an
Speaker 2: email too. At stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com.
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