1
00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:04,920
Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

2
00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:13,560
Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's

3
00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:16,919
Speaker 2: Chuck and it's just us. Cherry's not here, and this

4
00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:21,800
Speaker 2: is stuff you should know. The Invincible Duo, The ambiguously

5
00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:25,880
Speaker 2: Gay Duo. Yes, sir, you after right? That was pretty good.

6
00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:30,200
Speaker 2: I love it when there's like an impression of an impression.

7
00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:34,120
Speaker 3: That's all I do. That's true, that's my specialty.

8
00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:35,200
Speaker 2: But you do it so well.

9
00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:39,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was that bit was obviously Phil, the great

10
00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:43,879
Speaker 1: Phil Hartman, the late great Phil Hartman's Ed McMahon. And

11
00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:48,159
Speaker 1: that was a that was something that in college and

12
00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:50,480
Speaker 1: you know, my college years were generally the Phil Hartman

13
00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:53,280
Speaker 1: years on SNL. My good friend Eddie and I you

14
00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:57,080
Speaker 1: know Eddie, we for some reason that one really intercreered.

15
00:00:57,080 --> 00:00:59,520
Speaker 1: And still to this day one of us will say

16
00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:01,240
Speaker 1: something and the other will go here, yes.

17
00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:04,039
Speaker 2: Sir, yeah, I mean it's timeless for sure.

18
00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:05,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, really stuck with us.

19
00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:08,280
Speaker 2: I'm sure there's even people walking around doing that who

20
00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:09,959
Speaker 2: have no idea who Ed McMahon is.

21
00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:12,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, probably there's at least two.

22
00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:13,960
Speaker 2: That's what I'm putting.

23
00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:15,240
Speaker 3: Money on you and someone else.

24
00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:19,920
Speaker 2: I know who Ed McMahon is. I'm a skully realized person.

25
00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:20,399
Speaker 1: I know.

26
00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:21,000
Speaker 3: I'm joking.

27
00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:24,000
Speaker 2: We're not talking about Ed McMahon though, not really. We're

28
00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:26,360
Speaker 2: talking about the first guy you mentioned. You were doing

29
00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:29,600
Speaker 2: an impression of Phil Hartman, who turns out to be

30
00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:35,119
Speaker 2: a pretty great, complicated, tragic ultimately dude.

31
00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:38,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, actor and comedian known best for his

32
00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:42,720
Speaker 1: work on probably Saturday Night Live and The Simpsons. And

33
00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:44,560
Speaker 1: Dave helped us with this, and he wanted us to

34
00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:48,280
Speaker 1: shout out a book by Mike Thomas called You Might

35
00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:51,240
Speaker 1: Remember Me Colon The Life and Times of Phil Hartman

36
00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:54,400
Speaker 1: with one N even though he was born with two

37
00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:55,880
Speaker 1: n's on the name Hartman.

38
00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:59,120
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I thought that was pretty pretty crazy. He

39
00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:03,880
Speaker 2: dropped the second end, Yeah, for his I guess stage name.

40
00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:06,400
Speaker 1: It looks like a typo. That would be my guess,

41
00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:08,840
Speaker 1: the second end. Yeah, it just looks odd.

42
00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:11,840
Speaker 2: Well, maybe they pronounced it a little differently too, like

43
00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:16,840
Speaker 2: Phil Hartman. Probably so so. When he was born in

44
00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:19,720
Speaker 2: nineteen forty eight, when he was still named Phil Hartman.

45
00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:23,880
Speaker 2: He was born in Brainford, Ontario, And that might sound

46
00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:27,040
Speaker 2: familiar to hockey fans because that's where Wayne Gretzky's from

47
00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:30,600
Speaker 2: but after Wayne Gretzky, I would say Phil Hartman's probably

48
00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:33,799
Speaker 2: the second most famous person from Brantford, Ontario, and boy,

49
00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:37,200
Speaker 2: I hope you're right. I'm totally not. There's gonna be

50
00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:41,720
Speaker 2: like Tawny Katayan or something'll be from Brainford, Ontario. Although

51
00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:44,960
Speaker 2: she may still fall behind Phil Hartman.

52
00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:47,560
Speaker 3: She passed away too, I believe right.

53
00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:50,320
Speaker 2: I don't know. I stopped keeping up with her after

54
00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:52,280
Speaker 2: she and David Coverdell broke up.

55
00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:54,079
Speaker 1: I think Wayne Gretzky's alive though.

56
00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:57,400
Speaker 2: Yes, he is alive and slapping.

57
00:02:57,480 --> 00:02:57,919
Speaker 3: That's right.

58
00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:01,359
Speaker 1: Phil was a middle kid, number four of eight, and

59
00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:05,519
Speaker 1: as oftentimes with a middle child, especially in Phil's case,

60
00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:08,040
Speaker 1: when you have an older brother who was like super

61
00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:11,200
Speaker 1: athletic and handsome and a younger sister that needed special

62
00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:15,079
Speaker 1: care because of a rare condition called Angelman syndrome. Phil

63
00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:18,040
Speaker 1: it seems like felt like he needed to sort of

64
00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:22,720
Speaker 1: just attract attention by goofing off and being the class clown,

65
00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:23,600
Speaker 1: the family clown.

66
00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:27,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what metal kids do. He had like jam

67
00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:29,600
Speaker 2: Brady syndrome, but instead of wearing an afro wig, he

68
00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:34,320
Speaker 2: became an actually funny person, right, Yeah, I guess one

69
00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:36,040
Speaker 2: of the big things that happened to him was when

70
00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:40,760
Speaker 2: he and his family moved to California when he was nine,

71
00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:46,200
Speaker 2: nine eight something like that. He was around that age,

72
00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:49,080
Speaker 2: and California like really suited his blood. I mean, he

73
00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:53,160
Speaker 2: was born in Ontario. When you moved to like Malibu area, like,

74
00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:56,960
Speaker 2: you're that's a pretty good move. Typically, I love Toronto,

75
00:03:57,080 --> 00:03:59,720
Speaker 2: and I'm not like throwing shade on Ontario in general,

76
00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:02,760
Speaker 2: but you know, when you move out to southern California

77
00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:04,680
Speaker 2: from there, it's a little different, you.

78
00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:08,560
Speaker 1: Know, Yeah, especially if it turns out you love surfing, sailing,

79
00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:11,880
Speaker 1: and smoking weed or smoking grass at the time, I guess.

80
00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:14,200
Speaker 3: You would say kah, the three s's, yeah.

81
00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:18,479
Speaker 1: Because he Something that I learned yesterday was that Bill

82
00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:21,480
Speaker 1: Hartman was a big pothead.

83
00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:24,720
Speaker 2: Yes, but the kind that the cops wouldn't search your

84
00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:27,359
Speaker 2: car if you got pulled over, which is a lesson

85
00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:29,000
Speaker 2: to all those potheads out there. You don't have to

86
00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:30,719
Speaker 2: look like a pothead to be a pothead.

87
00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:31,280
Speaker 3: Yeah.

88
00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:33,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, he can look straight and make the cops laugh

89
00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:35,159
Speaker 1: and they'll just say, go along your day, You're just

90
00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:36,680
Speaker 1: a fun kid, exactly.

91
00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:39,320
Speaker 2: I'll just totally ignore that smell coming out of your car.

92
00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:40,680
Speaker 3: Yeah.

93
00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:44,400
Speaker 2: So yeah, he was really into southern California life. Apparently

94
00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:46,800
Speaker 2: he was a great surfer by the time he was thirteen.

95
00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:49,240
Speaker 2: This guy was just full of surprises.

96
00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:50,200
Speaker 3: Yeah.

97
00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:53,320
Speaker 2: And around this time, maybe even a little earlier, he

98
00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:57,560
Speaker 2: started to get into comedy. He started doing he took

99
00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:00,400
Speaker 2: the steps that every young comedian takes, and that's you

100
00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:05,360
Speaker 2: start idolizing some different comedians. Stand up comedians in his

101
00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:10,120
Speaker 2: were Bob new Heart, yeah and the other one. And

102
00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:13,719
Speaker 2: Jonathan Winters, who even if you don't know who Jonathan

103
00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:16,720
Speaker 2: Winters is, but you're a more more commendy fan. Yeah,

104
00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:21,040
Speaker 2: he was the giant old baby that arrived in an

105
00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:24,360
Speaker 2: egg at Morecamendi's tour stuff, I guess.

106
00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:25,000
Speaker 3: Yeah.

107
00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:28,200
Speaker 1: And Winners and new Heart actually they were sort of

108
00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:31,240
Speaker 1: comedians comedians back then in that era, from like the

109
00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:35,560
Speaker 1: nineteen fifties and into the sixties, and both of them

110
00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:39,200
Speaker 1: were just incredible stand ups. Jonathan Winters was so funny,

111
00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:42,560
Speaker 1: especially like with character work and stuff like that, which

112
00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:44,640
Speaker 1: New Heart didn't do. So between the two of those

113
00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:49,160
Speaker 1: he got a pretty like well rounded comedy education. Memorizing

114
00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:52,400
Speaker 1: those albums doing like I did as a kid, memorizing

115
00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:57,039
Speaker 1: comedy albums, performing bits for friends and family, stuff like that,

116
00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:01,599
Speaker 1: and especially on winter side, those impressions that Jonathan Winners

117
00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:05,360
Speaker 1: would do, Phil Hartman would copy those and then come

118
00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:06,039
Speaker 1: up with his own.

119
00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:09,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, and very quickly he excelled past even Jonathan Winners,

120
00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:13,440
Speaker 2: like he was in rich little area by the time

121
00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:15,960
Speaker 2: he was probably you know, mid teens.

122
00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:18,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a great story day found. I think it

123
00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:20,680
Speaker 1: was from the book that he and a bunch of

124
00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:24,160
Speaker 1: friends went skiing at Mammoth Mountain outside of La And

125
00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:26,479
Speaker 1: as the story goes, they were hanging around at the

126
00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:30,279
Speaker 1: Hot Springs that night and Phil's friends said, hey, man, start,

127
00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:33,240
Speaker 1: you know, doing some of your bits here for everybody

128
00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:36,920
Speaker 1: and impressions. And this sounds like one of those stories

129
00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:39,760
Speaker 1: has sort of, you know, grown over the years because

130
00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:43,960
Speaker 1: they say over two hours Phil performed basically in front

131
00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:47,720
Speaker 1: of a hundred strangers. I'm not quite sure if I

132
00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:51,200
Speaker 1: believe that part, because I've been to parties at ski resorts,

133
00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:53,400
Speaker 1: hanging out at Hot Springs, and I'm sure he got

134
00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:54,720
Speaker 1: a lot of jokes in, but I'm not sure if

135
00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:57,039
Speaker 1: everyone just sit there for two hours and watch some guy.

136
00:06:57,279 --> 00:06:59,720
Speaker 2: Right, and then one of his friends announced ladies and

137
00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:02,640
Speaker 2: Joe that was mister Phil Hartman, and someday he's going

138
00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:05,239
Speaker 2: to be a big star. Remember this night.

139
00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:09,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe it happened, but that's probably apocryphal. But I

140
00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:12,520
Speaker 1: bet a version of that story happen where Phil was

141
00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:14,800
Speaker 1: like the life of the party essentially, is my takeaway.

142
00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:19,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, from a pretty early age, right, So he's clearly funny,

143
00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:24,360
Speaker 2: he's really good at impressions. But his path to comedy,

144
00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:29,320
Speaker 2: I guess was kind of circuitous because he, well his brother,

145
00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:31,880
Speaker 2: he is older brother, the handsome athletic when you mentioned

146
00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:35,320
Speaker 2: earlier John, John decided he wanted to try to get

147
00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:37,960
Speaker 2: into acting, and I guess this was before Phil could

148
00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:42,280
Speaker 2: even get a chance, and John went to Hollywood came

149
00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:45,880
Speaker 2: back reporting that he was not okay with how ceed

150
00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:53,280
Speaker 2: Hollywood was amoral, not anything like an Ontarian would would

151
00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:55,680
Speaker 2: be okay with, and so he said, I'm not going

152
00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:57,560
Speaker 2: to do acting. And I think that kind of scared

153
00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:00,320
Speaker 2: Phil a little bit, or at least guided him away

154
00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:01,559
Speaker 2: from acting for a little while.

155
00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:04,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, it seems like it. John went into the music

156
00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:08,560
Speaker 1: business and co founded a management company called Hartman and Goodman,

157
00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:12,400
Speaker 1: and it seems like they had a real had their

158
00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:13,360
Speaker 1: thumb on the pulse.

159
00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:15,560
Speaker 3: Thumb on the pulse. Sure you can do that, right,

160
00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:17,320
Speaker 3: You could use your thumb for this.

161
00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:20,960
Speaker 1: They had their thumb on the pulse of that Laurel

162
00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:25,080
Speaker 1: Canyon sort of country rock scene. Because they ended up

163
00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:29,480
Speaker 1: managing the likes of Neil Young, America, Buffalo Springfield, the Eagles,

164
00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:32,880
Speaker 1: Joni Mitchell, Jackson, Brown Mamas, and the Papas Wow kind

165
00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:35,000
Speaker 1: of that whole scene they were management for.

166
00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:37,320
Speaker 2: That is a mellow roster man.

167
00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:41,040
Speaker 1: Probably a lot of grass being smoked, yes.

168
00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:42,880
Speaker 2: And Phil smoked a bunch of it too. He got

169
00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:46,280
Speaker 2: brought on eventually. He went to art school for a

170
00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:48,960
Speaker 2: little while, tried to go to the University of Hawaii,

171
00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:51,560
Speaker 2: was turned down, And I'm sure he wanted to go

172
00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:53,559
Speaker 2: to the University of Hawaii.

173
00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:54,960
Speaker 3: To serve That's exactly what I thought.

174
00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:57,559
Speaker 2: Yeah. So his older brother was like, hey, man, you're

175
00:08:57,559 --> 00:08:59,840
Speaker 2: not doing anything. You got some art school under your belt,

176
00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:03,599
Speaker 2: why don't you come and work for me as a roadie,

177
00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:05,560
Speaker 2: because that's what people who go to art school end

178
00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:07,559
Speaker 2: up doing almost invariably.

179
00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:10,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, he hooked him up with a little hippie rock

180
00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:14,880
Speaker 1: band called Rock and Foo Foo Did you listen to

181
00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:15,880
Speaker 1: any Rock and Foo.

182
00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:19,520
Speaker 2: I didn't. I looked up the band members though, Yeah,

183
00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:23,840
Speaker 2: one of them was it was a child actor prior

184
00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:26,560
Speaker 2: to Rock and Foo. He was on f Troop, Gun

185
00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:28,640
Speaker 2: Smoke a bunch of other stuff, and then another one

186
00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:31,480
Speaker 2: was the guitarist and a lot of the Monkeys' hits.

187
00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:34,400
Speaker 1: Oh that's cool. I listened to like three Rock and

188
00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:36,880
Speaker 1: Foo songs and I liked it.

189
00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:39,360
Speaker 2: Okay. I saw a photo of the band and I

190
00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:40,600
Speaker 2: was like, I'm not listening to that.

191
00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:43,920
Speaker 3: Well it was it's probably not your bag, baby.

192
00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:47,320
Speaker 1: It was that sort of you know, kind of that again,

193
00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:49,240
Speaker 1: that Laurel Canyon sort of country rock thing.

194
00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:50,760
Speaker 3: I dug it. I thought it was pretty cool.

195
00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:53,480
Speaker 2: Hey, I love America, don't get me wrong. I think

196
00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:54,000
Speaker 2: they're great.

197
00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:55,720
Speaker 3: But you're no communist.

198
00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:58,960
Speaker 2: Out of all of the lists of bands that you

199
00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:02,600
Speaker 2: rattled off there, you know, I like that band the most.

200
00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:04,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just not your bag. I get it. I'm

201
00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:05,920
Speaker 3: not I'm not bagging on.

202
00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:09,520
Speaker 2: You, okay, bagging on it. I mean for it not

203
00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:10,320
Speaker 2: being my bag.

204
00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:12,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you like craft work, for God's sakes

205
00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:13,679
Speaker 1: and elevator music.

206
00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:18,520
Speaker 2: I like, I like most stuff, justs that you rattled up.

207
00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:23,240
Speaker 2: Definitely no a no, Yeah, I'm virulently opposed to listening

208
00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:24,079
Speaker 2: to Eagles.

209
00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:27,439
Speaker 1: They managed Sonny and Cherity. You probably like them the most.

210
00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:30,480
Speaker 2: They're fine. I don't remember what I said on our

211
00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:33,440
Speaker 2: Sunny and Share episode, but I don't remember ever being

212
00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:36,800
Speaker 2: like super into their music. Yeah, Okay, I guess none

213
00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:39,200
Speaker 2: of this really matters, because what we're really talking about

214
00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:41,959
Speaker 2: is Phil Hartman and him making a ROADI yeah, he

215
00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:44,200
Speaker 2: kind of started living the rock and roll lifestyle as

216
00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:47,439
Speaker 2: a roadie for some of these bands, and because he

217
00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:50,280
Speaker 2: had some art school and he was kind of a

218
00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:52,960
Speaker 2: developing artist at the time, his brother was like, hey,

219
00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:55,000
Speaker 2: why don't you do some of these album covers for

220
00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:57,720
Speaker 2: some of the bands? And he did, and at least

221
00:10:57,720 --> 00:10:58,800
Speaker 2: one of them was pretty good.

222
00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:01,880
Speaker 3: Yeah. He did two for Rock and Foo.

223
00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:05,000
Speaker 1: I think they only did two albums, so he dominated

224
00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:06,240
Speaker 1: their album cover art.

225
00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:06,839
Speaker 2: Nice.

226
00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:10,360
Speaker 1: He did some for Crosby Stills and nash Or Sills

227
00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:12,480
Speaker 1: and Nash I wrote that to you.

228
00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:14,439
Speaker 3: America.

229
00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:16,240
Speaker 1: He did one for your favorite band America.

230
00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:16,680
Speaker 3: YEP.

231
00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:20,560
Speaker 1: Did one for Poco that's probably the most noteworthy for

232
00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:25,000
Speaker 1: their album Legend of This. It's a very minimalist artwork

233
00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:28,880
Speaker 1: of a horse. And I wanted to mention it is

234
00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:31,920
Speaker 1: all over the internet that he did the cover for

235
00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:37,440
Speaker 1: Steely Dan's seminal album Asia, and he did not, but

236
00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:41,320
Speaker 1: it's everywhere on the internet as fact, and it's apparently

237
00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:41,800
Speaker 1: not true.

238
00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:44,520
Speaker 2: What a weird rumor, because that's just such an arcane

239
00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:47,920
Speaker 2: fact about him that he ever designed any album covers,

240
00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:50,840
Speaker 2: But then for a rumor to be about him making

241
00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:53,360
Speaker 2: one that he didn't, that's really bizarre. But that's the

242
00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:54,640
Speaker 2: Internet for you, right.

243
00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:57,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I'm pretty positive it wasn't him because other

244
00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:00,160
Speaker 1: people saluted it out and dug up the actual artist.

245
00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:03,360
Speaker 1: And so if you're about to email and say, dude,

246
00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:05,080
Speaker 1: he did Asia, I think.

247
00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:05,320
Speaker 3: He did not.

248
00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:08,600
Speaker 2: No who the guy who actually did it was Phil

249
00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:13,240
Speaker 2: Hartman with two ends, right, that's why people were confused.

250
00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:14,280
Speaker 3: I think. Yeah, good point.

251
00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:18,439
Speaker 2: So around this time, also Phil kicked off and by

252
00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:20,800
Speaker 2: the way, we're on a first name basis with Phil Hartman,

253
00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:22,960
Speaker 2: so we're just going to keep calling him felt. He

254
00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:27,559
Speaker 2: kicked off what would become essentially his trademark for his

255
00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:30,439
Speaker 2: love life, which was he would fall head over heels

256
00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:34,800
Speaker 2: for a very very pretty girl and they would be

257
00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:37,520
Speaker 2: hot and heavy for a while and then he would

258
00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:41,199
Speaker 2: get married and then basically be like, this isn't working

259
00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:43,320
Speaker 2: out after a couple of years. And the first person

260
00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:45,080
Speaker 2: he did that with when he was I think twenty

261
00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:49,800
Speaker 2: one maybe twenty two, was a nineteen year old woman

262
00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:54,840
Speaker 2: from Malibu named Gretchen Lewis, and she got pregnant pretty

263
00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:57,880
Speaker 2: quickly while they started dating, but they didn't keep the kid,

264
00:12:57,920 --> 00:12:59,600
Speaker 2: but they got married after all.

265
00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:03,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, they divorced in nineteen seventy two, so I guess

266
00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:07,720
Speaker 1: either two years or a little under two years. And

267
00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:12,240
Speaker 1: after that he got his first professional stage credit when

268
00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:15,079
Speaker 1: he played Harold Hill and The music Man for the

269
00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:19,319
Speaker 1: Santa Monica Theater Company, and Mike Thomas, the guy who

270
00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:21,800
Speaker 1: wrote the biography, had a quote about from one of

271
00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:23,880
Speaker 1: Phil's co stars in The Music Man that said Phil

272
00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:26,120
Speaker 1: was a true artist. He didn't really march to the

273
00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:27,960
Speaker 1: same drum as other people, although it was a part

274
00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:30,160
Speaker 1: of him that wanted to be perceived as normal. He

275
00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:31,880
Speaker 1: went through life trying to find a character that he

276
00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:34,840
Speaker 1: could present to the public that seemed normal and wholesome.

277
00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:37,080
Speaker 3: And that is also sort.

278
00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:39,000
Speaker 1: Of a repeated theme when you talk to friends and

279
00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:41,880
Speaker 1: colleagues and family over the years, was that no one

280
00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:44,480
Speaker 1: knew the real Phil. And I've known people like that.

281
00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:48,240
Speaker 1: It's an interesting thing to sort of create personas rather

282
00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:50,120
Speaker 1: than be yourself, and that seemed to kind of be

283
00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:51,000
Speaker 1: the case with him.

284
00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:55,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was heavy into impression management basically everywhere in

285
00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:58,000
Speaker 2: his entire life. Oh yeah, in all corners, right.

286
00:13:58,240 --> 00:13:58,880
Speaker 3: Yeah.

287
00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:01,559
Speaker 2: And also just one thing of his first acting credit

288
00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:05,280
Speaker 2: playing Harold Hill, because he went on to play Lyle

289
00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:08,000
Speaker 2: Landley or Lanley I can't remember which one, who was

290
00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:12,199
Speaker 2: basically the Simpson's version of Harold Hill from The Music

291
00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:17,160
Speaker 2: Man in the Monoail episode M written by Conan O'Brien man. Yeah,

292
00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:19,400
Speaker 2: he was one of the better Simpson writers early on.

293
00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:20,200
Speaker 3: He was.

294
00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:23,640
Speaker 1: But on that thing about not seeing the real Phil,

295
00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:26,240
Speaker 1: there was one friend who later said that there was

296
00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:28,680
Speaker 1: a small room inside Phil that no one will ever

297
00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:31,840
Speaker 1: get to. So just sort of kind of reinforcing that idea.

298
00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:35,360
Speaker 2: And the friends that I hear it stinks of feet.

299
00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:38,320
Speaker 2: Should we take a break, I think it's time. Yeah,

300
00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:39,720
Speaker 2: all right, We're gonna take a break.

301
00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:42,120
Speaker 1: And come back and talk about Phil's entry into the

302
00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:43,080
Speaker 1: Groundlings right after this.

303
00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:07,960
Speaker 2: So, Chuck, we've surely talked about the Groundlings here there

304
00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:10,920
Speaker 2: there's just no way we have n't. But just to refresh,

305
00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:14,280
Speaker 2: they are a sketch and improv comedy troupe founded in

306
00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:20,760
Speaker 2: LA who've basically launched the careers of tons and tons

307
00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:23,080
Speaker 2: of Canadians and including a lot of people on Saturday

308
00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:26,120
Speaker 2: Night Live. Apparently Saturday Night Live drafts heavily from the

309
00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:30,920
Speaker 2: Groundlings Second City and that's it. But some of the

310
00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:33,920
Speaker 2: people from Saturday Night Live who were Groundlings, including some

311
00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:38,320
Speaker 2: who were Groundlings with Phil Hartman, John Lovett's was one

312
00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:43,200
Speaker 2: Cherry Oh, Terry Maya, Rudolph Christen Wigg, Will Ferrell, and

313
00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:44,640
Speaker 2: the list just keeps going on.

314
00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:46,080
Speaker 3: To mention Forte.

315
00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:48,360
Speaker 2: He wasn't on Saturday Night Live though, That's why I

316
00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:51,160
Speaker 2: didn't mention him. What was he?

317
00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:54,000
Speaker 1: Well, Forte was mcgruber, my man.

318
00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:56,880
Speaker 2: Oh, I didn't realize that was a Satay Night Live character,

319
00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:58,200
Speaker 2: Sorry Will, Sorry.

320
00:15:58,000 --> 00:15:58,720
Speaker 3: And the Falconer.

321
00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:01,120
Speaker 2: I didn't realize he was on. Sorry A love I

322
00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:03,480
Speaker 2: thought those were like standalone things.

323
00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:06,920
Speaker 1: No, he I mean, I just mentioned that because Forte

324
00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:09,680
Speaker 1: is one of my all time favorite actors in SNL

325
00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:12,160
Speaker 1: character members, cast members.

326
00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:14,040
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, you're both then.

327
00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:17,240
Speaker 1: No, he didn't insult me. I just love Forte.

328
00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:17,560
Speaker 3: He did.

329
00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:20,800
Speaker 1: He did the weirdest characters on that show kind of consistently,

330
00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:23,120
Speaker 1: and I always just respected him for that.

331
00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:28,800
Speaker 2: Nice. Well, that's great. Was he the Last Man on Earth? Yeah?

332
00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:30,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, he wastright too.

333
00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:33,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's wonderful. I like him a lot. I like

334
00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:36,640
Speaker 2: him separately, I also like the last Man on Earth,

335
00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:38,920
Speaker 2: so now that the two are joined, I really like

336
00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:39,720
Speaker 2: him even more.

337
00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:40,280
Speaker 3: Yeah.

338
00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:43,320
Speaker 1: My only Will Forte experience was I think I've mentioned

339
00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:45,120
Speaker 1: this before, but he was an attendee at a good

340
00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:48,600
Speaker 1: friend's wedding and my friend sat me, sat emily and

341
00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:50,240
Speaker 1: night at his table because he knew I was such

342
00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:50,560
Speaker 1: a fan.

343
00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:53,400
Speaker 3: And I partied all night with wil Forte and he

344
00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:54,800
Speaker 3: was the coolest, funnest dude.

345
00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:56,680
Speaker 2: Oh that's that's a great story.

346
00:16:56,760 --> 00:16:57,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, just a real sweetheart.

347
00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:03,080
Speaker 2: So yeah, so we're talking about the groundlings, right, Yeah,

348
00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:07,280
Speaker 2: And this is I don't know, This story doesn't seem

349
00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:10,000
Speaker 2: to be apocryphal. It seems to be actually true. It's

350
00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:13,240
Speaker 2: just exactly how it played out is kind of under question.

351
00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:16,320
Speaker 2: But there was a birthday party that a friend of

352
00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:18,640
Speaker 2: Phil Hartman had. I guess a group of them went

353
00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:22,200
Speaker 2: to a Groundling show and before the show, Phil Hartman

354
00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:24,800
Speaker 2: just decided to get up on stage and start doing

355
00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:25,639
Speaker 2: some of his act.

356
00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:27,000
Speaker 3: Couldn't that be true?

357
00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:32,399
Speaker 2: I don't, I mean somebody who's hungry for the stage.

358
00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:35,640
Speaker 3: I guess, yeah, I guess yeah, sure, right, And.

359
00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:38,399
Speaker 2: So for two hours he had one hundred strangers just

360
00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:44,240
Speaker 2: totally enwrapped. The hot springs developed in the room. But no,

361
00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:50,720
Speaker 2: apparently he definitely killed on stage. And the story is

362
00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:53,280
Speaker 2: that the Groundlings came up to him after he got

363
00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:55,280
Speaker 2: off stage, where like you're in, you want to be in?

364
00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:58,119
Speaker 2: That seems to not be true. It seems to be

365
00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:00,439
Speaker 2: that he went up to them afterwards, like, hey, what

366
00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:03,480
Speaker 2: do you think about me getting an audition now? And

367
00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:05,600
Speaker 2: they said sure, and he went an audition and they

368
00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:06,320
Speaker 2: said you're in.

369
00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:07,520
Speaker 3: Yeah.

370
00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:11,240
Speaker 1: See that's the first part of the second part was

371
00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:14,200
Speaker 1: the part that I don't believe, right, because I don't

372
00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:16,719
Speaker 1: see how there's any way at an improv theater. I

373
00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:19,480
Speaker 1: know a lot of people in those theaters over the years,

374
00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:21,560
Speaker 1: and for someone just to jump up on stage and

375
00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:23,600
Speaker 1: do a bit, I bet they would not have been like,

376
00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:26,440
Speaker 1: you're wonderful, can you join? It would have been like, dude,

377
00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:27,919
Speaker 1: don't ever do that again.

378
00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:30,199
Speaker 2: Right exactly, Like if they went up to him afterward,

379
00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:31,880
Speaker 2: they probably would have said like please leave.

380
00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:32,560
Speaker 3: Yeah.

381
00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:36,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, So who knows, but it's a good story. I

382
00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:38,560
Speaker 1: would love to eventually to do episodes on the Groundling.

383
00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:42,520
Speaker 1: Second City in UCB is just like a little trifecta suite. Okay,

384
00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:45,960
Speaker 1: great at any rate, no matter how it happened. Tracy Newman,

385
00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:48,040
Speaker 1: who was the founding member of the Groundling, said that

386
00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:50,879
Speaker 1: Phil Hartman walked into the Groundlings ready.

387
00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:53,840
Speaker 2: To go right, and that would also there was a

388
00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:56,760
Speaker 2: similar quote I think from Lorne Michaels years later that

389
00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:59,920
Speaker 2: said he basically was ready the moment he walked in

390
00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:01,240
Speaker 2: this era live too.

391
00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:02,240
Speaker 3: Yeah.

392
00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:05,399
Speaker 2: It was just a very dedicated actor and one of

393
00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:07,600
Speaker 2: the people who really looked up to him became one

394
00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:10,960
Speaker 2: of his best friends of fellow Groundling John Lovetz, and

395
00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:13,800
Speaker 2: he was saying that he would he called him the

396
00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:16,800
Speaker 2: King of the Groundlings, which is pretty cool. But as

397
00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:21,440
Speaker 2: his career went on, he became known as like the

398
00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:25,560
Speaker 2: most reliable actor in any group, like he would stick

399
00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:29,879
Speaker 2: to the to the sketch yea even if it was

400
00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:32,240
Speaker 2: going badly, he would hang in there. He wouldn't bail

401
00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:34,200
Speaker 2: on it. He would just keep going into the end.

402
00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:36,840
Speaker 2: And usually from the impression I have is that if

403
00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:39,720
Speaker 2: he was in a sketch, if it would have gone

404
00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:42,240
Speaker 2: badly otherwise if other people were in it, if he

405
00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:44,480
Speaker 2: was in it, it probably wasn't going badly in the

406
00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:46,639
Speaker 2: first place, which makes it easier to stick to.

407
00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:51,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, he just seemed kind of unflappable. Well, we'll talk

408
00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:53,879
Speaker 1: about some messenal stuff in a bit, but yeah, well

409
00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:55,280
Speaker 1: I'll to savor it for then. But one of his

410
00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:59,960
Speaker 1: most popular Groundlings characters was Chick Hazard, who was the

411
00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:02,520
Speaker 1: hard boiled detective like out of the film Noir, And

412
00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:05,000
Speaker 1: that's a character that he would sort of reprise in

413
00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:06,439
Speaker 1: different ways over the years.

414
00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:09,120
Speaker 3: He was a good He was just good.

415
00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:11,919
Speaker 1: With his mouth and good with words, and could just

416
00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:16,840
Speaker 1: rattle off really complex, long strings of comedic dialogue like

417
00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:20,040
Speaker 1: you know, pitch perfect without missing a beat, and just

418
00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:23,280
Speaker 1: just very very skilled, like some people are funny and

419
00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:25,560
Speaker 1: some people are super skilled, and he was one that

420
00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:26,080
Speaker 1: was both.

421
00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:29,679
Speaker 2: Right. Yeah, well, put Chuck. I think we can end

422
00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:30,680
Speaker 2: the podcast.

423
00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:33,280
Speaker 3: Thing, or we should talk about his second marriage okay.

424
00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:35,080
Speaker 2: Well, well, first though, we should say he was with

425
00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:37,520
Speaker 2: the Groundlings for eleven years, and that is quite a

426
00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:42,200
Speaker 2: while for being a member of a sketch comedy troupe,

427
00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:45,040
Speaker 2: including one that doesn't it doesn't have a TV show

428
00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:47,320
Speaker 2: or anything. It's like a live theater group. It's a

429
00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:51,200
Speaker 2: long time. But I think that's kind of like an

430
00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:56,800
Speaker 2: indicator of the dedication that he brought to acting. Comedy, Yeah,

431
00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:58,840
Speaker 2: comedic acting, I'm not sure. Yeah.

432
00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:01,720
Speaker 1: I mean, he didn't sort of make it in the

433
00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:03,720
Speaker 1: public eye until he was in his late thirties, and

434
00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:06,160
Speaker 1: that's just a long time to hang in there. Yes,

435
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:09,040
Speaker 1: especially in comedy. It's not like late thirties as old.

436
00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:11,920
Speaker 1: But if you haven't made it by that time as

437
00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:15,440
Speaker 1: an actor or comedian or something, you're probably sort of wondering, like, well,

438
00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:16,440
Speaker 1: should I tick up?

439
00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:17,880
Speaker 3: You know, surfing again.

440
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:20,639
Speaker 2: Right to those stuff you should know. Listeners out there

441
00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:22,960
Speaker 2: in your late thirties trying to break into acting still

442
00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:25,520
Speaker 2: do not be discouraged by what Chuck just said. Just

443
00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:27,120
Speaker 2: keep going, guys.

444
00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:32,320
Speaker 1: You'll start surfing. I mean I didn't get into my

445
00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:35,960
Speaker 1: career until my late thirties and didn't get really success

446
00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:39,280
Speaker 1: until my forties, so I'm living. I mean, you're younger

447
00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:40,680
Speaker 1: than me, so you are just a pup.

448
00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:45,440
Speaker 2: No, that's not true. I was in my mid thirties

449
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:47,280
Speaker 2: when things started to pick up, for sure.

450
00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:49,639
Speaker 1: But I mean, it's funny that I said that, because

451
00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:51,920
Speaker 1: we're good examples of like, hey, you never know it's

452
00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:52,800
Speaker 1: coming around the corner.

453
00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:55,560
Speaker 2: Oh, that's absolutely true. Boy, I could tell you some

454
00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:58,000
Speaker 2: stories of times when I thought this life is not

455
00:21:58,040 --> 00:21:58,960
Speaker 2: going to work out for me.

456
00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:03,840
Speaker 3: Oh boy, you with me both man, So we said.

457
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:05,840
Speaker 2: That he got He split up with his first wife,

458
00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:09,640
Speaker 2: Kretchen in nineteen seventy two. He did the bachelor thing

459
00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:13,080
Speaker 2: for about another decade, and he ran into a woman

460
00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:16,080
Speaker 2: named Lisa Jarvis. I'm not sure how they met or

461
00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:18,560
Speaker 2: even necessarily when, but I know in nineteen eighty two

462
00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:21,960
Speaker 2: they got married, ten years after his last divorce, and

463
00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:25,440
Speaker 2: it basically followed the same pattern as his first marriage.

464
00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:30,120
Speaker 2: He just like, it just was like fireworks and then

465
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:32,479
Speaker 2: it cooled off and then he lost interest.

466
00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:36,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, their marriage only lasted a few years. They divorced

467
00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:40,840
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty five, the same year that he ended

468
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:43,639
Speaker 1: up having some of his first big successes, and that

469
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:45,679
Speaker 1: was because five years prior.

470
00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:47,680
Speaker 3: A guy walks.

471
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:51,320
Speaker 1: Into the Groundlings in nineteen eighty named Paul Rubens with

472
00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:54,960
Speaker 1: a character named pee Wee Herman under his arm or

473
00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:55,800
Speaker 1: under his belt.

474
00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:59,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, have you seen the documentary yet?

475
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:02,240
Speaker 1: Still have not since you asked me yesterday.

476
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:04,399
Speaker 2: I know, I thought maybe you would have gone and

477
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:06,720
Speaker 2: watched it last night or something, But okay.

478
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:09,760
Speaker 3: It's so close to being on my TV. He had

479
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:10,240
Speaker 3: no idea.

480
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:14,600
Speaker 2: It's really good. But so there's a lot about him

481
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:18,280
Speaker 2: developing the pee wee Herman character Paul Rubins at the

482
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:22,600
Speaker 2: Groundlings with a lot of help from other Groundlings. Apparently

483
00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:26,360
Speaker 2: they show some of the early stuff on this documentary.

484
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:30,720
Speaker 2: He was much more like obnoxious. He threw tootsie rolls

485
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,080
Speaker 2: at the crowd, he would insult the crowd.

486
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:33,600
Speaker 3: Wow.

487
00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 2: And then even after he kind of started to get

488
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 2: pee wee like developed, those early stage shows were full

489
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:42,920
Speaker 2: of like sexual innuindow and stuff that a little kid

490
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:45,600
Speaker 2: wouldn't pick up on but adults would find funny. But

491
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:47,680
Speaker 2: there weren't little kids at these shows anyway, so it

492
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:51,000
Speaker 2: didn't matter right right. But one of the people, my

493
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 2: point was, that really helped develop it was Phil Hartman,

494
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:58,199
Speaker 2: And I think even up to the first season of

495
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 2: pee Wee's Playhouse. He played Captain Carl. His character was

496
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:06,240
Speaker 2: he played a character on Peewee's Playhouse for the first season.

497
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:09,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, the surly boat, Captain, Captain Carl. There were other

498
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:12,920
Speaker 1: Groundlings around as well, either you know, in the show

499
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,119
Speaker 1: with him or writing for him, and Phil was one

500
00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:18,359
Speaker 1: of the writers as well, and they were selling out

501
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 1: every night. They ended up at the Groundlings. They ended

502
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:23,440
Speaker 1: up moving to the Roxy Theater, which was a little

503
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 1: bit bigger the which we talked about in our Sunset

504
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:29,680
Speaker 1: Boulevard episode. Yeah, and or if it hasn't come out yet,

505
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:31,360
Speaker 1: we will talk about it on that episode.

506
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:32,080
Speaker 2: Yeah.

507
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 1: And then in nineteen eighty there was a producer named

508
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:37,120
Speaker 1: Paula Kaufman who said she wanted to create a kid

509
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:41,159
Speaker 1: show for adults. Saw Peewee at the Groundlings and was like,

510
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:41,800
Speaker 1: this is it.

511
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:43,920
Speaker 3: This is the show.

512
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:48,600
Speaker 2: Yeah again this documentary so like this particular part when

513
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,919
Speaker 2: they're developing the TV show is yeah, it's just not

514
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:53,160
Speaker 2: so amazing, right.

515
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:53,800
Speaker 3: I can't wait.

516
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:58,920
Speaker 2: So Phil was there when Paul Rubins did an HBO special.

517
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 2: It was essentially one one, I guess an HBO version

518
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 2: of the stage show that it started out as that

519
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 2: caught the attention of other people in Hollywood, and they said, hey,

520
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:13,560
Speaker 2: how about a movie, and they did Pee Wee's Big

521
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 2: Adventure together. Phil Hartman was a co writer on that,

522
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 2: and that was nineteen eighty five, and so things are

523
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:23,480
Speaker 2: finally starting to pick up in ways that Phil Hartman

524
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:25,959
Speaker 2: had been hoping. Like he'd been writing scripts, he'd been

525
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 2: auditioning for TV shows. Now all of a sudden he

526
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:32,399
Speaker 2: had a hit movie writing credit under his belt, so

527
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 2: he's thinking, okay, things are about to take off, which

528
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 2: explains why in nineteen eighty five, when Louren Michaels came

529
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:42,040
Speaker 2: to him and said, hey, do you want to audition

530
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:45,840
Speaker 2: for Saturday Night Live? He said, now, I'm good, I'm

531
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:46,639
Speaker 2: going to pass on that.

532
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, this was Lorne Michael's return to SNL. He very

533
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:53,960
Speaker 1: famously had an absence from the show and the show

534
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:57,240
Speaker 1: kind of did not farewell without Lorne Michaels a creator.

535
00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 2: You weren't some of the Tim Kazerinski years.

536
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 1: I mean no, some of that stuff is okay, but

537
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:08,159
Speaker 1: just as a general success, the show was kind of

538
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:11,120
Speaker 1: going downhill. Yeah, but I did I get your joke?

539
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:14,359
Speaker 1: First of all Tim Katzerinsky. He was funny though I

540
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 1: like that.

541
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 2: Oh no, he was. He was like perfect for the

542
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,919
Speaker 2: characters he played, like on Police Academy. I can't remember

543
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 2: his Yeah, he was crazy, the same guy.

544
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:23,439
Speaker 3: I forgot about that.

545
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 2: Yep.

546
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:27,359
Speaker 1: But Lauren came back to save this, saved the show.

547
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:32,960
Speaker 1: In eighty five eighty six, he again, like you said,

548
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 1: asked Phil to come aboard. He said no because he was,

549
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 1: you know, he thought he could make it as an actor,

550
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 1: you know, in just regular comedies. And John Lovitz joined instead,

551
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 1: and then John Lovett's got him another audition in eighty

552
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:47,679
Speaker 1: for the eighty six eighty seven season.

553
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:48,880
Speaker 3: He went in.

554
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 1: He had already met Lorna a couple of times. One

555
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 1: when he met Lauren Michaels.

556
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:55,240
Speaker 3: I believe that the.

557
00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 1: I think when when Rubens hosted SNL for the first time, Yes,

558
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:03,159
Speaker 1: is when he first met Lauren. But then he was

559
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:06,639
Speaker 1: also had a small part in Three Amigos, which Lauren produced.

560
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:10,360
Speaker 1: And then if you ever have a chance, just sit

561
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 1: down on YouTube and watch the Phil Hartman audition for SNL.

562
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:18,360
Speaker 1: He did that chick Hazard character. First, he did one

563
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:20,440
Speaker 1: of the fake commercials, and that's where you can tell

564
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 1: just how skilledy is because it's one of those fast

565
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 1: talking commercials where he's talking like this about a product,

566
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 1: but it's not you know, he's not reading Q cards.

567
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 1: It's just in his brain and memorize and he just

568
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:35,200
Speaker 1: it's flawless. And you hear something that you just never

569
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 1: hear in an SNL audition, which is people laughing. They're

570
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 1: very famous for just sort of sitting there stonefaced. Yeah,

571
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 1: even if you're doing well and you hear people laughing

572
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 1: in the background.

573
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, that is very telling for sure. So there's

574
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:53,479
Speaker 2: one part of his audition real where he does an

575
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:57,639
Speaker 2: impression of a German comedian doing impressions of famous people.

576
00:27:58,000 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 3: It was so good.

577
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:01,640
Speaker 2: He said the most fa the funniest man in Germany,

578
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 2: Gunter Johann, Right, Yeah, And so Guter does impressions of

579
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:10,399
Speaker 2: like Jack Nicholson, John Wayne, Jack Benny, but they're all

580
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:14,359
Speaker 2: speaking German, and it's just like a spot on impression

581
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 2: of John Wayne, Yeah, speaking German, and he's doing a

582
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 2: German an impression of a German comedian doing these impressions.

583
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:25,440
Speaker 2: It's just amazing. He goes right into it. Yeah, it

584
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 2: really does show off his talent. Plus it's also hilarious too.

585
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 3: Yeah.

586
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 2: You know a lot of times when you talk about

587
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:35,000
Speaker 2: people being funny, it loses its funniness.

588
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, so just go watch it. Yeah, agreed, totally agree.

589
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 1: He was hired with Pretty Rockstar cast on all new

590
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:46,920
Speaker 1: members Jan Hook, Stana Carvey, Victoria Jackson.

591
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 3: And Kevin nealon Man.

592
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 2: What a dream team.

593
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, pretty good, and that really kind of helped bring

594
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:52,200
Speaker 1: the show back.

595
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 2: And how I mean, to me, that's like the Golden Age.

596
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 2: I think it destroys the seventies. The seventies was cool

597
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 2: and like amazing and you know, really energetic, but the

598
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 2: eighties were just like pro okay to me. Okay, So

599
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 2: it could be just that's the one I grew up with.

600
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 2: Who knows, But.

601
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 1: I mean there is that theory that whatever age you

602
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 1: were in high school I think is your favorite, the

603
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 1: way you think is the best SNL cast.

604
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 2: Okay, well I might subscribe to that theory.

605
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 3: No, I love I love that era.

606
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 2: So let's back up a second, because you said that

607
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 2: he met Lauren. Phil Hartman met Lauren Michaels when Paul

608
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 2: Rubens pee Wee hosted Saturday Night Live in nineteen eighty five,

609
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 2: and the reason that he was there was because Paul

610
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 2: Rubins brought Phil Hartman along in another collaborator from the Groundlings,

611
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 2: John Parragon, as his his writers to work with the

612
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 2: Saturday Night Live writers to make good sketches for pee

613
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 2: Wee Herman for that episode. Right, so pee Wee or

614
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 2: Paul introduced Phil to Lauren. Lauren comes to call in

615
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 2: the next year and the year after that, and eventually

616
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 2: Phil says, Hey, Paul, I've got to go. I finally

617
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 2: got my break. I'm going on a Saturday Night Live.

618
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 2: And Paul was not happy about that. If you've seen

619
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 2: the documentary, which I know you haven't, I watched it

620
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 2: real quick, just now, okay, so you know, then they

621
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 2: covered this in the documentary. Apparently it's not a very

622
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 2: well known or it's kind of a forgotten story. But

623
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 2: they had a falling out and they didn't really talk

624
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 2: or ever reconcile for the rest of Phil Hartman's life

625
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 2: because Paul was and there's really no other way to

626
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 2: put it, very very jealous. He felt spurred, jilted, spurned, jilted,

627
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 2: spurred to action, and he was also yeah, very jealous

628
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 2: because he had tried out for Saturday Night Live and

629
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 2: did not get picked up, and I can't remember who

630
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 2: got the spot instead of him. And then yeah, and

631
00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 2: then Phil Hartman left Pee Wee's Playhouse two goes Saturday

632
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:04,640
Speaker 2: Night Live. So Paul was kind of a not the

633
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 2: most forgiving person from what I can tell from the documentary,

634
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 2: So he just held that grudge for the rest of

635
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 2: Phil Hartman's life.

636
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 3: Yeah. Man, that's sad.

637
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 2: It is sad, for sure.

638
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 3: I hate hearing that.

639
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 1: I might pause that part or skip over it when

640
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 1: I watch the documentary to.

641
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 2: Okay, it's at one twenty three thirty six is when

642
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 2: it starts.

643
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 3: Shall we take our final break? Yeah, all right, let's

644
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 3: take another break.

645
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 1: And we'll talk about a meeting in nineteen eighty five

646
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 1: that would change the course of Phil Hartman's life right

647
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 1: after this, all right, As promised, a meeting in nineteen

648
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 1: eighty five would change the course of Phil Artman's life.

649
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 1: And that is when Phil met a woman named Brinn

650
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 1: Amdahl at a party. She was a tall, beautiful blonde

651
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 1: from Minnesota but moved to la to be a model

652
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 1: or an actress or both, and previous to meeting him

653
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 1: in the late seventies and early eighties, she had an

654
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 1: alcohol problem, she had a cocaine problem, but had gotten sober,

655
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 1: to her credit, and was looking for a good dude

656
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:28,239
Speaker 1: to hook up with. And when she met Phil, he

657
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:31,560
Speaker 1: was this is sort of right before pee Wee's big

658
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 1: adventure came out and he got the offer to you know,

659
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 1: be on SNL. So he was at a pretty low

660
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 1: point auditioning and his coming out of that second marriage,

661
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 1: and so he was like, all right, this beautiful woman

662
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 1: loves me and then maybe validates me in a certain way.

663
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 3: And so they got together.

664
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 2: They did and it was just like all the other ones,

665
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 2: except this one was like when it burned red hot,

666
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 2: that could also be really bad too. Yeah, it wasn't

667
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 2: just like two people super into each other. Also, two

668
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 2: people who like couldn't couldn't like just just clashed a lot, right,

669
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:08,040
Speaker 2: So they were get in really big fights and then

670
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 2: they would make up, and they would get in another

671
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 2: fight and then they would make up. And despite this

672
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 2: early on, they still ended up getting married and went

673
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 2: on to have two kids, Sean and Bergen. I think

674
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 2: Sean was the oldest and he was the boy and

675
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 2: Bergen was their little girl. And from all accounts, like

676
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 2: Brynn was a really good mom and really loved Phil Hartman.

677
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 2: But there was a huge issue in that she was

678
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:40,880
Speaker 2: an aspiring actress and she wanted to I think she

679
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 2: wanted Phil to help her career more than he was

680
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:46,959
Speaker 2: comfortable helping it. Yeah, and I totally get this. He

681
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 2: was not the kind to like be like, hey, can

682
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 2: you get my wife on your show? Or you know,

683
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 2: have you seen my wife actually's great, why don't you

684
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 2: give her a shot? He just would not do something

685
00:33:55,640 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 2: like that, right, So that then and there caused some

686
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 2: pretty serious static between the two. And then on top

687
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:07,680
Speaker 2: of that, after they got together, his career actually started

688
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 2: taking off. So in addition to him not helping her,

689
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 2: she was like living in his shadow. So that was

690
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 2: a big source of conflict between the two.

691
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:17,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure.

692
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 1: So he's got this marriage that starts, you know, that's

693
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:23,719
Speaker 1: you know, rocky, like his other relationships had been, but

694
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:27,440
Speaker 1: it has staying power more than the others. He was

695
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 1: thirty seven when SNL started, right kind of when they

696
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 1: got together, and his nickname on SNL was the Glue.

697
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:36,440
Speaker 1: You kind of talked earlier about how he was always

698
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 1: sort of looked at as a stabilizing force in the

699
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 1: Groundlings and SNL and his nickname was the Glue because

700
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 1: he was just perfect basically whenever he performed. We got

701
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:51,160
Speaker 1: to talk about some of his best characters. Phil Donahue

702
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:55,080
Speaker 1: was one of my favorites. When he did Phil ed McMahon.

703
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:59,360
Speaker 1: Of course, the aforementioned Ed McMahon was one of my favorites.

704
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:06,160
Speaker 1: I really, for some reason loved the Frankenstein Tonto Tarzan

705
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:09,240
Speaker 1: Vin that he and Kevin Neilan and John Lobbittz did.

706
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 2: And then they did Little Drummer Boy.

707
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:14,880
Speaker 1: It was so silly, but I loved it.

708
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:15,560
Speaker 2: It's pretty good.

709
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:18,960
Speaker 1: He was Frankenstein, right, Yeah, he was Frankenstein. I think

710
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:21,920
Speaker 1: Lovevitz was Tanto when Neilan was Tarzan.

711
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 3: If you haven't seen it, look it up.

712
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 1: But basically the whole point is none of them speak English,

713
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 1: and so they would do like Christmas songs and Frankens.

714
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:30,319
Speaker 3: I would just go.

715
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:36,040
Speaker 1: And Luvitz did Tanto, and you know, looking back, it

716
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:39,160
Speaker 1: was probably a fairly racist depiction of a Native American.

717
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:42,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then you said Neilan was Tarzan.

718
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 1: And I don't even know what Tarzan did, probably just

719
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 1: like jungle grunting.

720
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 2: It was very good. I mean like basically we used

721
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 2: to sit here for the rest of the episode and

722
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:54,560
Speaker 2: talk about Phil Hartman's sketches because each one was better

723
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:59,640
Speaker 2: than the last. Like unfrozen caveman lawyer. Yeah, first of all,

724
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:02,879
Speaker 2: what a what like just an exceptional idea to start with,

725
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:06,320
Speaker 2: but he's he just pulls it off so perfectly, this

726
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:10,279
Speaker 2: smarmy lawyer who's an unfrozen caveman who went to law

727
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 2: school and became a smarmy I guess a personal injury lawyer.

728
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so.

729
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 2: And again, like we can talk it out and it

730
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 2: will kill any funniness to it. Just go watch that one.

731
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:25,320
Speaker 2: Go look up Colon Blow the Saturday Live commercial.

732
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, class it is.

733
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 2: And uh then Ronald Reagan mastermind? Did you watch that one?

734
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:33,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I remember. I didn't rewatch it, but I

735
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 1: remembered it.

736
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 2: I rewatched it and I remembered it. It came out

737
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:41,319
Speaker 2: around the time the Iran Contra affair scandal broke, and

738
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 2: at the time Ronald Reagan was like, I don't know anything,

739
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 2: Like I didn't I didn't know who knows who knew,

740
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 2: Like I didn't know this was going on. So they

741
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:52,879
Speaker 2: make fun of him and his public persona just kind

742
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 2: of being this doddering old man who does doesn't really

743
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 2: have his finger on the pulse of his own administration

744
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 2: to this when people aren't and it's just him and

745
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:04,760
Speaker 2: his staff him just like barking orders and being totally

746
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 2: super sharp and being the mastermind behind everything it's in

747
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:13,280
Speaker 2: like the his just turning public Reagan on and off

748
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 2: and then turning that private like aggressive Reagan on and off.

749
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:18,279
Speaker 3: It's just I mean, like.

750
00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:22,359
Speaker 2: You really see, like this guy was amazing, like like

751
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:24,840
Speaker 2: one of a kind. Basically I can't think of anybody

752
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:27,320
Speaker 2: who could do the stuff that he did. But before

753
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 2: him or since.

754
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:32,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, absolutely well said he would go on

755
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:34,640
Speaker 1: to do another president very famously in ninety two when

756
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 1: Bill Clinton won the presidency and he had a just

757
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:40,760
Speaker 1: a dead on Clinton impersonation, just not only the voice,

758
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:43,919
Speaker 1: but just his sort of the smarmy kind of Bill

759
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:47,400
Speaker 1: Clinton thing and the ego. Like they lampooned him very

760
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 1: very well, very effectively.

761
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:52,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's one where he was jogging into a McDonald's

762
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 2: while he was running for president, doing like a campaign stop,

763
00:37:56,239 --> 00:37:59,440
Speaker 2: and he's like, you know, about to kiss a baby,

764
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:02,080
Speaker 2: and he looks the baby and says to the mom like, Hey,

765
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 2: are you gonna eat the rest of those French fries?

766
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:07,920
Speaker 2: And it just goes from there. Oh my god, it's perfect.

767
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:11,239
Speaker 2: So one of the things about Saturday Night Live that

768
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 2: I learned, even as a young viewer, if you were

769
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:17,719
Speaker 2: on beyond a certain number of years, it starts to

770
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:20,759
Speaker 2: have a certain kind of look like it kind of

771
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 2: shows the world like you are perfect for Saturday Night Live,

772
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 2: but for some reason it's not clicking outside of that.

773
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:28,319
Speaker 2: So you just hang in there as long as you

774
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:32,280
Speaker 2: can at Saturday Night Live. And what's astounding and nuts

775
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 2: is that that happened to Phil Hartman. He was there

776
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:38,880
Speaker 2: through a couple of cast changes, like big time, huge

777
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:41,319
Speaker 2: cast changes where it went from like Kevin Ewan and

778
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:45,640
Speaker 2: Jan Hooks to Chris Farley and David Spade and Chris

779
00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 2: Rock too at the same time as well. I think

780
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 2: Sarah Silverman came in around that time too, So like

781
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 2: he was in for a huge transition. He straddled two

782
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:56,520
Speaker 2: big transitions of Saturday Night Live. And that's just like

783
00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:59,319
Speaker 2: with the Groundlings, this is a really long time to

784
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:01,440
Speaker 2: be a member of Live. And I think he felt

785
00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:04,719
Speaker 2: overlooked because a lot of his colleagues were starting to

786
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:06,319
Speaker 2: get their own movies and he was not.

787
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean he was on for eight seasons. Over

788
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 1: those eight seasons he did, he was in more sketches

789
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:16,240
Speaker 1: than any other cast member. When he retired from SNL,

790
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:19,120
Speaker 1: they gave him on the show. They gave him a

791
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 1: little statue of an Elmer's glue, like a fixed to

792
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:24,360
Speaker 1: a trophy kind of thing mm hm, because of his

793
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:27,880
Speaker 1: nickname the Glue. But yeah, he definitely was getting side

794
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:30,360
Speaker 1: parts in these movies, like he was in So I

795
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:33,480
Speaker 1: Married an Axe Murderer. He was in Cone Heads, but

796
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 1: he wasn't the star. And by the time he was

797
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:38,480
Speaker 1: Rock and Sandler and those guys came along. In Farley,

798
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:40,279
Speaker 1: he was in his forties and he was kind of

799
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:42,759
Speaker 1: playing the straight man roles, like the old man of

800
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:46,359
Speaker 1: the family. One you know, sort of obvious example is

801
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 1: the Matt Foley, you know, living in a van down

802
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:53,800
Speaker 1: by the river, the motivational Speaker sketch. Phil Hartman was

803
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:56,000
Speaker 1: the dad, and you know, no one remembers that because

804
00:39:56,280 --> 00:40:01,280
Speaker 1: everyone remembers Chris Farley. Quick aside, that sketch was created

805
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:03,080
Speaker 1: and written by Bob Odenkirk.

806
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 2: Oh I forgot. He wrote for Sarah Live too.

807
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:08,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the reason I know that is because I

808
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 1: watch Kevin. I followed Kevin Nelon on Instagram and he

809
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 1: does this. I don't know if he releases them as

810
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 1: a podcast, I'm gonna have to look. But he does

811
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:18,799
Speaker 1: these hikes through one of the you know canyons there

812
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:21,399
Speaker 1: in LA in the Hollywood Hills, and he interviews people

813
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:23,640
Speaker 1: on these hikes. And he was interviewing Bob Odenkirk and

814
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:24,840
Speaker 1: they were talking about that sketch.

815
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:25,520
Speaker 2: That's awesome.

816
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:26,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's cool.

817
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:28,759
Speaker 2: It is a great sketch, but you can kind of

818
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:35,200
Speaker 2: see how, like Phil Hartman's Super Pro really contained and

819
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 2: perfect delivery and style, it doesn't jibe well unless he's

820
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 2: just playing it straight to somebody like Farley just going berserk, right,

821
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 2: you know, totally. So yeah, he finally he left. He

822
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:51,520
Speaker 2: left on great terms. He just killed Sarah Night Live.

823
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:54,880
Speaker 2: He became a legend on Saturday Night Live, and he

824
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:57,200
Speaker 2: went on to still have a pretty great career. He

825
00:40:57,239 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 2: went on to do four seasons of News Radio, which

826
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:04,520
Speaker 2: is one of its great underrated office comedies, along with

827
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:08,600
Speaker 2: working the one that Fred Savage was into Jerversey. That

828
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:12,120
Speaker 2: one no, it was good and Just Shoot Me is

829
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:15,200
Speaker 2: the other underrated office comedy of all time. I think

830
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:17,799
Speaker 2: from the nineties at least. But he was on four

831
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:20,360
Speaker 2: episodes of news Radio, had a great character for seasons.

832
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:23,040
Speaker 3: Yeah for what I say, episodes.

833
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:26,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, seasons for sure, had a great character Bill McNeil,

834
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:29,840
Speaker 2: and he just basically picked up a second part of

835
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:33,400
Speaker 2: his career. And then also simultaneously he was doing The

836
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:35,719
Speaker 2: Simpsons too, which is where a lot of people fell

837
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:36,760
Speaker 2: in love with Phil Hartman.

838
00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:40,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, just a little show called The Simpsons. He was

839
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:43,279
Speaker 1: asked in nineteen ninety to do some voiceover work for

840
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:44,920
Speaker 1: that show, and he said, yeah, I'll do it, but

841
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:47,719
Speaker 1: just one time, because he apparently had a pretty bad

842
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:51,360
Speaker 1: experience doing voiceover for animation for the Dennis the Menace

843
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:55,640
Speaker 1: animated show. I remember that, but he said I'll do

844
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:58,880
Speaker 1: it just once. But then, of course that didn't last

845
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 1: because he was great on it, and he started working

846
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:05,360
Speaker 1: with the writers, started developing characters, and for eight seasons

847
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 1: he voiced some of the most iconic characters. Of course,

848
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 1: the great Troy McClure and lineal Lot's attorney at law

849
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 1: are the two sort of most notable because you know

850
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:20,160
Speaker 1: they would come on as their little side bits here

851
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:22,160
Speaker 1: and there, but Troy McClure actually ended up getting a

852
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 1: pretty major storyline when he hooked up with Which one

853
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 1: was it.

854
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:27,160
Speaker 2: I think Patty.

855
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:30,720
Speaker 1: I don't remember one of Marge's two sisters. I couldn't

856
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:31,839
Speaker 1: remember if it was Patty or.

857
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:36,200
Speaker 3: Selma. Yeah, that's right, but it was one of them.

858
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:38,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, they fell in love, and that's from One of

859
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 1: my favorite lines from Troy McClure was after they went

860
00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:44,919
Speaker 1: out on a date, he sees her the next day

861
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:48,240
Speaker 1: and his famous line was you may remember me from

862
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:51,920
Speaker 1: whatever like acting role that he was in, and in

863
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:55,000
Speaker 1: this case, he said, I'm Troy McClure. You may remember

864
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 1: me from certain dates like last night.

865
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was well known for that. You may remember

866
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:04,439
Speaker 2: me from such educational films as The Decapitation of Larry

867
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 2: leadfoot Man or Here Comes the Metric System.

868
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:10,080
Speaker 3: Yeah. He was great.

869
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:12,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, and like he had one episode where he was big,

870
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 2: but the rest of the time it was just, like

871
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:16,280
Speaker 2: you said, a little side thing. And he still created

872
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 2: a legendary character times two and as a matter of fact,

873
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:22,359
Speaker 2: when he died, The Simpsons are like Lionel Hutts and

874
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:25,399
Speaker 2: Troy mccluar will never appear on The Simpsons again. They

875
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 2: just couldn't. No one else could do it. Yeah, So

876
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:31,640
Speaker 2: speaking of him dying, this is gonna go long because

877
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:36,359
Speaker 2: this is kind of an involved story. But he, like

878
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:38,200
Speaker 2: I said, he and Brynn had a lot of tension.

879
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:43,959
Speaker 2: Apparently phil Harmon had an anxious, avoidant attachment style. When

880
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:46,919
Speaker 2: she wanted to talk, when she was confrontational, he would

881
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:49,160
Speaker 2: basically get in a sailboat and sail off to Catalina

882
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:53,279
Speaker 2: Island alone. I take it, but he was just he

883
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:56,319
Speaker 2: would withdraw. You couldn't get to him. That was the

884
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:58,080
Speaker 2: way that he dealt with it. And she did not

885
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:00,680
Speaker 2: like that. I think it made her feel very lonely.

886
00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:03,400
Speaker 2: And then again she was living in a shadow. He

887
00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:06,200
Speaker 2: wasn't helping her career. They had two kids, and again

888
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:08,759
Speaker 2: she was a really really good mom by all accounts.

889
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 2: She also had some former demons that she had conquered,

890
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:17,879
Speaker 2: including an alcohol addiction and an addiction to cocaine. And

891
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:20,360
Speaker 2: she was clean when she and Phil met, and she

892
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:23,839
Speaker 2: stayed clean for a while, but she got back on

893
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:28,000
Speaker 2: the cocaine train after she did coke with Andy Dick

894
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 2: at a news radio party Christmas party in nineteen ninety seven.

895
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:34,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, we don't know if that's the first

896
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:36,959
Speaker 1: time she started back again. But as the story goes,

897
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:41,839
Speaker 1: he offered her cocaine. He said that he didn't know

898
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:44,799
Speaker 1: that she had had a drug problem before, did not

899
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 1: know that apparently she had been clean. And John Lovetts

900
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 1: for many, many years was very public about blaming Andy Dick,

901
00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:56,359
Speaker 1: you know, for her falling off the wagon, and it

902
00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:59,720
Speaker 1: led to a crazy story where in two thousand and seven,

903
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:03,399
Speaker 1: John lovettzs assaulted Andy Dick at the laugh Factory and

904
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:07,279
Speaker 1: like got into a I mean, I was gonna say

905
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:09,560
Speaker 1: a fist fight, but it doesn't sound like it was punchy,

906
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 1: but more John Lovett's, at least as the way he

907
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:16,040
Speaker 1: tells it, ramming Andy Dick's head back into the bar

908
00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:19,719
Speaker 1: like repeatedly and said I would have kept doing it too,

909
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:21,319
Speaker 1: but the bartender stepped in.

910
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:25,839
Speaker 2: I'm frenchie. Yeah. He apparently he took over for Phil

911
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:29,759
Speaker 2: Hartman after Phil Hartman died on news radio, and one

912
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:32,000
Speaker 2: of the first days he said to Andy Dick, I

913
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 2: wouldn't be here if you hadn't a given cocaine to

914
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:38,160
Speaker 2: Brent so he blamed Andy Dick for the death of

915
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:42,319
Speaker 2: Bryn and Phil. So Andy Dick didn't like that. Later

916
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:44,719
Speaker 2: on he said he saw they saw each other at

917
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:47,080
Speaker 2: a restaurant and he said, I put the Phil Hartman

918
00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:49,960
Speaker 2: hex on you. You're the next to die. And then

919
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:52,280
Speaker 2: the next time they saw each other is when John

920
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:55,440
Speaker 2: Lovettz beat up Andy Dick, which I mean had no

921
00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:57,719
Speaker 2: idea about that, did you.

922
00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:01,320
Speaker 1: No, I didn't know that story until today or yesterday

923
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:02,960
Speaker 1: or whenever you send it over, which is just one

924
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:07,680
Speaker 1: of those crazy stories, but very sadly. It was May

925
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:09,759
Speaker 1: twenty seventh, and you know, we should say Brent. At

926
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:13,239
Speaker 1: this point, she was upset about Phil's.

927
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 3: You know, smoking too much weed.

928
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:21,000
Speaker 1: She was had an anxiety problem, she was suffering through

929
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:27,480
Speaker 1: some depression. She got on antidepressants, started drinking again. Not

930
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:29,840
Speaker 1: sure who started the cocaine thing, maybe Andy Dick, but

931
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:32,480
Speaker 1: she got back into cocaine and was in a pretty

932
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:34,960
Speaker 1: bad state of mind. And on May twenty seventh, nineteen

933
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:37,759
Speaker 1: ninety eight, she had gone out for drinks at an

934
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:40,520
Speaker 1: Italian restaurant and wanted to go to another bar, but

935
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:42,880
Speaker 1: her friend didn't want to, so she called up her

936
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:45,520
Speaker 1: old drug and buddy from the seventies and early eighties

937
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:48,439
Speaker 1: got named Doug, and Doug was clean now, but said,

938
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:50,480
Speaker 1: why don't you come over to my house. She had

939
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:52,919
Speaker 1: some more drinks over there and was basically complaining about

940
00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:55,600
Speaker 1: her marriage, about Phil smoking too much pot and then

941
00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:59,120
Speaker 1: not getting along and you know, being just at loose ends.

942
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:01,759
Speaker 1: At one in the morning, He's like, you know, you

943
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:02,960
Speaker 1: need to go home. You need to go home to

944
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:03,480
Speaker 1: your husband.

945
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:06,560
Speaker 2: So she did. I don't think she had much of

946
00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:10,160
Speaker 2: a choice. Doug was like, you gotta leave, and I

947
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:12,880
Speaker 2: guess when she got home. Shortly after that, she and

948
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:15,919
Speaker 2: Phil got into an argument. Phil went off to bed,

949
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:20,440
Speaker 2: managed to fall asleep, and remember bren is on Doloft,

950
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:24,200
Speaker 2: has been drinking for hours now and is on cocaine.

951
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:27,440
Speaker 2: And she went and got one of their guns, thirty

952
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:30,640
Speaker 2: eight special, and walked up to Phil while he was

953
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:34,080
Speaker 2: sleeping and shot him three times, once in the head.

954
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:38,719
Speaker 2: And I never saw if he woke up or if

955
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:42,319
Speaker 2: he even knew it happened. Hopefully not, and he just

956
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:44,840
Speaker 2: died while he was asleep. That would be what I

957
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:48,000
Speaker 2: would hope. But he died instantly because he was shot

958
00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:49,360
Speaker 2: three times at close range.

959
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:53,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, So About an hour after that, she called up

960
00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:55,400
Speaker 1: her friend Doug, who she was just with. She was

961
00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:59,080
Speaker 1: super drunk at this point. Doug said, you needed to

962
00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:00,960
Speaker 1: sleep this off. Didn't tell him at that point when

963
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:04,000
Speaker 1: it happened, And about twenty minutes later, she shows up

964
00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 1: back at Doug's house saying that she'd killed Phil and

965
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 1: he doesn't believe her. And then apparently, as the story goes,

966
00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:12,440
Speaker 1: while she was there, the gun fell out of her

967
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:15,520
Speaker 1: purse and he was like, what is going on? He

968
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:17,359
Speaker 1: helps her sober up over the course of a couple

969
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:20,520
Speaker 1: of hours, drives her back over at about six in

970
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:22,720
Speaker 1: the morning to their house and he sees Phil dead

971
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:26,800
Speaker 1: and he calls the cops and at that point Brn

972
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:30,040
Speaker 1: locks herself in the bedroom with Phil's body, and that's

973
00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:31,560
Speaker 1: where she was when the cops arrived.

974
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:36,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, both of their kids were in the house at

975
00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:39,799
Speaker 2: the time. I think. Yeah, Sean, the oldest, woke up

976
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:42,080
Speaker 2: and Doug was like, let's get you out of here,

977
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:45,840
Speaker 2: and took Sean outside to the police. But the whole

978
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:49,919
Speaker 2: time Bergen's sleeping to like her mom just murdered her dad,

979
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:51,160
Speaker 2: and then it just gets worse.

980
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:54,920
Speaker 1: Actually, Yeah, so she is barricaded in the room with Phil.

981
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:56,239
Speaker 3: The cops are there.

982
00:48:56,680 --> 00:48:59,880
Speaker 1: She's making phone calls to friends and family saying, you know,

983
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:03,040
Speaker 1: confessing basically to what she had done. And finally, her

984
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:05,960
Speaker 1: last call was to her sister Kathy. She said, take

985
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:07,600
Speaker 1: care of my children. Just let them know how much

986
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:10,000
Speaker 1: I love them. She got a second gun and laid

987
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:12,240
Speaker 1: down on the bed next to Phil and shot herself

988
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:13,120
Speaker 1: and killed herself.

989
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:17,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, and became one of the most hated people in America,

990
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:20,400
Speaker 2: if not the world, almost overnight. I remember eating her

991
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:23,200
Speaker 2: guts when I heard about this. Me too, as an

992
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:26,960
Speaker 2: older person, I have a little more empathy for just

993
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 2: the amount of loneliness and then also being on antidepressants,

994
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:34,480
Speaker 2: cocaine and alcohol definitely is not a good combination, especially

995
00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:37,160
Speaker 2: when you have guns in the house. But yeah, I've

996
00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:38,799
Speaker 2: changed my approach to her a little bit, and I

997
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:42,120
Speaker 2: was kind of happy to read that. At the at

998
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:48,200
Speaker 2: the funeral, Phil's brother John was asking the people in attendance, like,

999
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:51,360
Speaker 2: please try to find it in your heart to forgive

1000
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:55,080
Speaker 2: for this, Like this was this was a horrible thing,

1001
00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:57,680
Speaker 2: but it's not like she was evil. She was a loving,

1002
00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:00,839
Speaker 2: a loving wife and a loving mother, and like, let's

1003
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:01,759
Speaker 2: try to remember her.

1004
00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:05,120
Speaker 1: For that, Yeah, for sure, and especially at the funeral

1005
00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:07,200
Speaker 1: to have the guts to say something like that was

1006
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:09,319
Speaker 1: pretty stand up thing to do.

1007
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:09,680
Speaker 3: I think.

1008
00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:14,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, a good like life lesson there. Phil was he

1009
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:16,759
Speaker 1: was going to come back to news radio. It's not

1010
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:18,160
Speaker 1: like he was done with the show. He was going

1011
00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:20,080
Speaker 1: to come back for season five. But like you mentioned,

1012
00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:23,719
Speaker 1: John Lobvitz took over. The first episode of season five

1013
00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:25,719
Speaker 1: dealt with the death of the character. It's called Bill

1014
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:29,800
Speaker 1: moves On. Yeah, very emotional episode. And I think you

1015
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:32,319
Speaker 1: already mentioned that they you know, The Simpsons, was like,

1016
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:34,919
Speaker 1: we're never ever going to get someone to do Troy

1017
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:36,120
Speaker 1: McClure Lionel Huts again.

1018
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:38,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's true. And then he finally got his star

1019
00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 2: on the Walk of Fame in twenty fourteen.

1020
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:47,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we should mention Bryn's sister Kathy respected her

1021
00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:49,280
Speaker 1: wishes and she's who raised the kids.

1022
00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:51,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, along with her husband.

1023
00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:55,440
Speaker 2: Yeap, So good for her. Yeah for them. That's Phil Hartman.

1024
00:50:56,080 --> 00:50:58,440
Speaker 2: One of the sad outcomes of all this, Chuck, I think,

1025
00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:01,439
Speaker 2: is when you search Phil Hartman, just Phil Hartman, most

1026
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:03,960
Speaker 2: of what comes up on the first couple pages of

1027
00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:07,759
Speaker 2: search engines is about the murder. Yeah, yeah, not like

1028
00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:10,359
Speaker 2: look at all the hilarious stuff he did. So maybe

1029
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:13,839
Speaker 2: look up Phil Hartman SNL videos and just go from

1030
00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:16,879
Speaker 2: there totally. And that's all we have to say about

1031
00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:19,480
Speaker 2: Phil Hartman for now. So I guess Chuck, it's time

1032
00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:20,320
Speaker 2: for listener mail.

1033
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:28,000
Speaker 1: This is from Katie Josiah, a six month old baby.

1034
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:30,399
Speaker 2: Oh wow, and Chris, this is amazing, guys.

1035
00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:32,560
Speaker 1: My wife and I were just listening to the William A.

1036
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:35,400
Speaker 1: Mitchell story from a few weeks ago. We heard that

1037
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:38,360
Speaker 1: Bill was the inventor of tang. My wife is from Georgia,

1038
00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:39,800
Speaker 1: but I'm from the Midwest, so we always like to

1039
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:42,920
Speaker 1: talk about things we grew up with, different foods and traditions, restaurants, etc.

1040
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:46,520
Speaker 1: And how they were similar or sometimes very different. Well,

1041
00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:49,440
Speaker 1: I found out that I consumed tang in a very

1042
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:51,640
Speaker 1: unique way. Apparently hot no.

1043
00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:53,479
Speaker 2: I thought he was going to say, right up the nose.

1044
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:55,760
Speaker 1: When I was young, in the winter months in Ohio,

1045
00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:57,680
Speaker 1: my dad would warm up the kettle and mix tang

1046
00:51:57,719 --> 00:51:59,960
Speaker 1: and boiling water was a warm drink that we can

1047
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:01,680
Speaker 1: have whenever we played out in the snow, and my

1048
00:52:01,719 --> 00:52:04,360
Speaker 1: sister and I loved it, and he called it hot tang,

1049
00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:07,799
Speaker 1: and I just thought all tang was consumed hot, which

1050
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:10,480
Speaker 1: is pretty funny. I've actually never drank cold or even

1051
00:52:10,560 --> 00:52:13,600
Speaker 1: room temperature tang. Hope all is well with you and

1052
00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:16,439
Speaker 1: yours with love from North Georgia, Katie, Josiah six months

1053
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:17,440
Speaker 1: old and Chris.

1054
00:52:17,640 --> 00:52:20,200
Speaker 2: I would try that, especially with like a cinnamon stick.

1055
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:24,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, it sounds like a you ever have, like theraflu

1056
00:52:24,719 --> 00:52:27,160
Speaker 1: or something when you're sick, man hot or hot Toddy.

1057
00:52:27,239 --> 00:52:29,719
Speaker 2: I love the taste of theraflu so much. I would

1058
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:31,680
Speaker 2: drink it once in a while when I'm not sick.

1059
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:34,279
Speaker 3: It really puts you to sleep, man, it really does,

1060
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:36,480
Speaker 3: if you get the good stuff. I too love theraflu.

1061
00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:39,000
Speaker 2: The warning on the box about your liver is it

1062
00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:41,000
Speaker 2: scares me, so I only do it once in a while.

1063
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:41,520
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1064
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:43,680
Speaker 1: I mean we should get them on as a sponsor, man.

1065
00:52:43,719 --> 00:52:47,160
Speaker 2: We should. We should drink it on the podcast once

1066
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:47,720
Speaker 2: in a while.

1067
00:52:48,120 --> 00:52:48,319
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1068
00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:50,879
Speaker 1: But I bet tang Hot Tang is pretty similar and a.

1069
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:52,759
Speaker 3: Bit a little whiskey in there. I would be pretty good.

1070
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:55,640
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, don't get Katie started this, or at least

1071
00:52:55,640 --> 00:52:56,799
Speaker 2: it's only six months old.

1072
00:52:57,360 --> 00:52:58,439
Speaker 3: No, the Katie is the wife.

1073
00:52:59,080 --> 00:53:01,080
Speaker 2: Oh okay, Well, who is six months old?

1074
00:53:02,120 --> 00:53:03,000
Speaker 3: What was it? Josiah?

1075
00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:06,799
Speaker 2: Oh? Okay, I thought Katie's last name was Josiah. I

1076
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:08,680
Speaker 2: see there was a comment in there that I wasn't

1077
00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:09,440
Speaker 2: aware of.

1078
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:13,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, Chris wrote the letter right, he married Katie.

1079
00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:16,839
Speaker 1: Okay, and they had Josiah six months ago.

1080
00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:20,040
Speaker 2: Okay, gotcha. Well, I guess I should just say congratulations

1081
00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:21,279
Speaker 2: to Katie and John.

1082
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:21,520
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1083
00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:24,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, for Josiah and everything else.

1084
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:27,640
Speaker 2: There you go. Yeah, and thank you also for sending

1085
00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:30,719
Speaker 2: the email. That was a great one. Hot tang sounds wonderful.

1086
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:32,840
Speaker 2: We'll go try it. And if you want to be

1087
00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:35,520
Speaker 2: like Katie, Josiah and Chris, who I may have just

1088
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:38,480
Speaker 2: called John, I'm not sure, you can send us an

1089
00:53:38,520 --> 00:53:44,520
Speaker 2: email too. At stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com.

1090
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:47,520
Speaker 3: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

1091
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:51,799
Speaker 3: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1092
00:53:51,920 --> 00:53:53,760
Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.