1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,199 Speaker 1: You don't hear much about the border unless you're watching 2 00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:05,080 Speaker 1: Fox News or listening to some AM talk radio. But 3 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:08,920 Speaker 1: we're setting records every single month. I'm sure our next 4 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:11,760 Speaker 1: guest has the numbers at hand, but they're very large 5 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:14,960 Speaker 1: numbers of people coming across and staying, as there have 6 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:18,959 Speaker 1: been for years. By the way, I always like to 7 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:22,200 Speaker 1: point out that Gallup polling has been pretty consistent that 8 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 1: close to nine of Americans want secure borders close. Obviously, 9 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 1: that includes a lot of people from every political strip. Now, 10 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 1: beyond securing the borders, how many people you want to 11 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:39,239 Speaker 1: come in from? Where is where we get into an argument. 12 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:42,960 Speaker 1: But that's fine, That's absolutely fine. Why we can't secure 13 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:45,519 Speaker 1: the borders though, when almost everybody wants it and it 14 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:48,599 Speaker 1: leads to tragedies like we had the other day when 15 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 1: all those people died horrific deaths in the back of 16 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 1: that truck. We have been saying, administration after administration, both parties, 17 00:00:56,440 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 1: for a very long time. If you come to America, 18 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 1: if you try to get across the order decent change, 19 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:02,280 Speaker 1: you're gonna get across. And if you get across, you 20 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:04,760 Speaker 1: get to stay. And if you stay, we're gonna take 21 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 1: care of you no matter what health care, food, whatever, 22 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 1: or let you work where. We won't really cracked down 23 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:11,800 Speaker 1: on the whole whether or not you've got an I D. Stuff, 24 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 1: We'll let you be here. We've been sending that message 25 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:15,480 Speaker 1: to the world for a long time, and of course 26 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 1: we get this result. That's my opinion. Let's hear more 27 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 1: from somebody who deals with this for a living. Mark Krikorian, 28 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 1: we've talked too many times over the years, Executive Director, 29 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 1: Center for Immigration Studies, Mark, thanks for joining us today. Well, 30 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 1: thanks for having me. Could you hit me with a 31 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 1: quick statement of what you guys want? What? What? What 32 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 1: would be your if you could, if you were king 33 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:41,759 Speaker 1: and rule the world? What would you like to see happen? Well, 34 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 1: the first thing is you've got to enforce whatever the 35 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 1: immigration laws are. As you suggested. I mean that that 36 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 1: should go without saying. But as far as legal immigration goes, 37 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 1: the short version is that a modern society like ours 38 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 1: has outgrown immigration. Immigrants aren't different really from a hundred 39 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 1: or two hundred years ago, the same kind of people. 40 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 1: What's different is our society. We have a post industrial 41 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 1: knowledge based economy, we have a welfare state. The world 42 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:12,120 Speaker 1: has shrunk and so we need to downsize the federal 43 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 1: immigration program because that's what it is. It's just a 44 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:18,080 Speaker 1: government program like the Air Force or the Small Business Administration, 45 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 1: and it needs to be smaller, uh than it is now. 46 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 1: And we take a million sometimes more legal immigrants every 47 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 1: year and half a million plus so called temporary workers. 48 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 1: A lot of them just end up staying anyway, uh. 49 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 1: And that, you know, we just need to turn the 50 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:36,639 Speaker 1: dial down from that, you know, turn it down from 51 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 1: eleven down to I don't know, something lower. That's interesting. 52 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:40,800 Speaker 1: I don't know if we've ever gotten into this. So 53 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:45,120 Speaker 1: you think the number of a million legal immigrants is 54 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:47,799 Speaker 1: too high? What do you think the number are to be? Well, 55 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 1: I don't have a magic number because I don't think 56 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:50,919 Speaker 1: that's the way to think about it. What I The 57 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 1: way I think about it is kind of like zero 58 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 1: based budgeting, um where you start at zero not because 59 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:00,520 Speaker 1: you want zero immigration, but you start there because a 60 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 1: modern society like ours, with a third of a billion 61 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:07,839 Speaker 1: people that spans a continent, doesn't really need any immigration. 62 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:11,800 Speaker 1: But once you started zero, then who are the categories 63 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:14,919 Speaker 1: of people that have such a compelling case to come 64 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 1: in that we should let him in and for me 65 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 1: that would be husband's wives and little kids of Americans. 66 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:22,639 Speaker 1: That's a lot of people every year, three hundred four 67 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:26,800 Speaker 1: hundred thousand people a year. And then real Einstein's which 68 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:31,279 Speaker 1: is not a huge number, and then people humanitarian immigration 69 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 1: of people who really don't have anywhere else to go 70 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 1: and literally cannot stay one more second where they are. 71 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 1: The un actually keeps a list of people like that. 72 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 1: So you add that up, it's you know, half less 73 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 1: than half of what we take now, but it's still 74 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 1: more immigration than any other country in the world taps, 75 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 1: which often gets left out of the conversation um by 76 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 1: people who who think we're evil and mean. Um. So 77 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 1: you're laying this horrible tragedy from a couple of weeks 78 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 1: ago where all those people died in the back of 79 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 1: that truck the blame at Joe Biden's feet. Why, well, 80 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 1: it's plenty of blame to go around. I mean, the 81 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 1: smugglers themselves obviously are most directly responsibilities of the scum 82 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 1: of the earth who use people for money, But the 83 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:18,720 Speaker 1: administration shares in the blame because what they've done with 84 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:25,280 Speaker 1: their immigration policies is essentially lure people here, uh like 85 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 1: you said, if you get past the border, your home 86 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:32,600 Speaker 1: free for all intents and purposes, but it's you still 87 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: have to There's still some people that get arrested and deported. 88 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 1: So it's not totally open borders, which are terrible but 89 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 1: at least wouldn't result in these kind of tragedies. But 90 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:46,120 Speaker 1: it's not an enforced border either. The way I refer 91 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 1: to it is what we have under Biden is an 92 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:53,040 Speaker 1: open ish border. It's like putting a fence up around 93 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:56,200 Speaker 1: a swimming pool, which you're legally required to do because 94 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:58,920 Speaker 1: if some kid falls into your pool and there's no fence, 95 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 1: your posible. But what we have is like offense around 96 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:04,920 Speaker 1: your swimming pool, but there's a lot of holes in 97 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 1: it and you don't take care of it, and people 98 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 1: can kids can still get in and they fall into 99 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:13,839 Speaker 1: the pool, and um, you know, that's that's on you. 100 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 1: I mean, that's your responsibility. There's always going to be 101 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:20,720 Speaker 1: some people who want to come here, regardless of the laws, 102 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 1: even if they know the odds are low of their 103 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 1: getting of their succeeding. Some is still going to try, 104 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:31,320 Speaker 1: but not as many as now, given that the odds 105 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 1: of success getting past the border patrol and living home 106 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 1: free in the United States are so high under this administration. 107 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 1: I would certainly try it if I was from one 108 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 1: of these other countries and had a chance to get 109 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 1: my family into the United States. Sure you would, I mean, 110 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:50,679 Speaker 1: especially if I mean the majority of the people who 111 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 1: are encountered, that's the pc tourna instead of arrested who 112 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 1: were encountered at the border, the majority of them in 113 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:00,120 Speaker 1: May were let go into the United States one way 114 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:03,839 Speaker 1: or another. Uh. In fact, since this administration has taken 115 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:08,920 Speaker 1: over well over one million illegal immigrants, illegal border crosses 116 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:11,479 Speaker 1: have just been let go into the United States. Some 117 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 1: of them will show up for hearings, maybe, uh, some 118 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:17,040 Speaker 1: of them won't. But even the ones who show up 119 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 1: for their hearings, at the end of the process, if 120 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:23,360 Speaker 1: they get turned down for asylum, as most people do, 121 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 1: they still don't leave. And there's no intention of that 122 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 1: Biden administration to find them and make them leave. So, um, 123 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:33,160 Speaker 1: why would like you said, why wouldn't you do it? 124 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:36,280 Speaker 1: And the Wall Street Journal crowd, which tends to be Republican, 125 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 1: they're not gonna raise a stink about it because they 126 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 1: need workers in you know, hotels, restaurants, and farms. The 127 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 1: left is not going to raise a stink about it 128 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:50,360 Speaker 1: because they think they're getting voters, although I think that's 129 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:56,239 Speaker 1: being decreasingly true. But between those two things we don't 130 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 1: get to the answer that you described earlier. I feel 131 00:06:59,880 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 1: like if you put what you just described at the 132 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:05,159 Speaker 1: beginning of this as an immigration policy to Americans, I 133 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 1: feel like that would be an above issue, don't you. 134 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 1: I suspect it would be. Um. You know, it's not 135 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 1: usually pulled in that way, and other posters don't really 136 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 1: ask the questions that way. But yes, I think so. 137 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 1: And I gotta say, though, both the libertarian and corporate 138 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 1: folks on the one side and the lefties on the other, 139 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 1: the kind of things you talked about, whether it's cheap 140 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 1: labor or cheap votes, it's part of what's going on 141 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 1: in there, you know, calculations, But I don't think that's 142 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 1: the main thing in either case. I think it's ideological. 143 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 1: In other words, their worldview is that they're citizens of 144 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 1: the world. They're post American. I don't mean they hate America. 145 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 1: Some of them do, but for the most part, you know, 146 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 1: they're happy enough to be here, but they don't consider 147 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 1: themselves to have any greater responsibility to their fellow Americans 148 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 1: than to others. And therefore, what that means is it 149 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 1: would be wrong for somebody, say from Haiti, to be 150 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 1: kept out. And if they make it here, we have 151 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 1: no right to say no. That's the what that that 152 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 1: at the bottom, that's what the perspective of the anti 153 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 1: borders people is, is that believe an unlimited immigration. I 154 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 1: get that libertarian argument that works if you don't have 155 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:24,120 Speaker 1: a welfare state, because you know, if you even even 156 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:26,400 Speaker 1: if you did, even if you didn't have a welfare state, 157 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 1: it wouldn't work. I mean, it'd be better to live 158 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 1: on the street in the US than type of job 159 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:35,560 Speaker 1: in Haiti. Equally decent point, but it wouldn't work as easily. 160 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:37,320 Speaker 1: But if you do have a welfare state like we do, 161 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:38,960 Speaker 1: it works pretty well. If you can get in here, 162 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 1: you'll get fed, you'll get your cancer treated, you'll get 163 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:43,960 Speaker 1: your abortion paid for, whatever it is that you want. Then, 164 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 1: you know, and what I what I tell people who 165 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 1: make that argument is Okay, well, let's just for the 166 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 1: sake of argument, let's stipulate that, so get rid of 167 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:54,960 Speaker 1: the welfare state and then come back to me and 168 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:57,680 Speaker 1: we'll talk, and the fact is it's not happening. A 169 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:00,680 Speaker 1: welfare standard. Look, I'm a conservative personally. Matter think tank 170 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 1: is more kind of diverse and ambidextrous. But um, I'm conservative, 171 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 1: and I think our um social system of social provision 172 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 1: for the poor needs to be more tightly run and 173 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 1: more responsible. But even I don't want to get rid 174 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 1: of the welfare state. It's the part of a modern society. 175 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 1: I don't want people dying on the steps of the 176 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 1: emergency room because you know they can't afford care. But 177 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 1: you can't have a society like that and then constantly 178 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 1: have it open two people from countries that aren't as developed. 179 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 1: What kinds of people do you think we need in 180 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:40,480 Speaker 1: this country? And I don't mean skin color, for crying 181 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 1: out loud, I mean skills. I don't care what some 182 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:45,319 Speaker 1: of these skin colors, But what what what best benefits? 183 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 1: Outside of that you talked about refugees and people from 184 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 1: all that sort of stuff. Get that. I'm on board 185 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 1: with that. But in general, if we want to import workers, 186 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:56,319 Speaker 1: what what do we need? We don't really need workers, 187 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 1: That's that's my point. In other words, there were, like 188 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:00,959 Speaker 1: I said, we have a third of a billion people. 189 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 1: We have actually a larger and larger share of working 190 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 1: age people who have dropped out of the labor market. 191 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:11,319 Speaker 1: This is a serious social problem. That's what we need 192 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:14,360 Speaker 1: to fix, not just import people to replace them and 193 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 1: then send the Americans welfare checks and you know, cheap 194 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 1: hypodermic needles. I mean, that's not a solution. But uh, 195 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:26,199 Speaker 1: you know, there are people who a relatively small number 196 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 1: of people, like I said Einstein, immigrants whose contribution to 197 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 1: the productive capacity of the United States is so could 198 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:36,560 Speaker 1: be so large that um, I'm happy to let him in, 199 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 1: and most people are. But we're not talking about people 200 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 1: with you know, a bachelor's degree from hid or a 201 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 1: bad community college. We're talking about somebody with a pH 202 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 1: d in chemical engineering or something like that that you know, Okay, 203 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:54,559 Speaker 1: I'm I'm happy for I'll go and drive the green 204 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 1: card over to the person myself. But and and people 205 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 1: like that are and he can get in even under 206 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:06,960 Speaker 1: our current system. It's just that we have defined you know, 207 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 1: best and brightest as it were, way too broadly, which 208 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:14,480 Speaker 1: is probably similar to the fact that domestically, you know, 209 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 1: half the kids in school get the honor roll. You 210 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:20,000 Speaker 1: know what, I mean, it's not because they're all smartest, 211 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:22,480 Speaker 1: because everybody is supposedly above average. Well, we've got that 212 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 1: same perspective for too much of skilled immigration. Well, and 213 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 1: then the other side of our immigration system, which is 214 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 1: so angering. If you've ever known anybody who tried to 215 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 1: do it the right way. I had a friend who 216 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:36,640 Speaker 1: was a PhD PhD biologist who was constantly fighting our system. 217 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 1: He would he would like need to go on to 218 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:41,840 Speaker 1: go home to take care of his sick mom, and 219 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:44,559 Speaker 1: he couldn't go because something happened with the paperwork and 220 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 1: they weren't gonna let him back in. And I mean, 221 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:48,400 Speaker 1: they make it so, we make it so hard for 222 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 1: people are trying to do it the right way. It's 223 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 1: very frustrating. Yeah, I mean, and that's one of the ways. 224 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:57,079 Speaker 1: That is one of the reasons you see that our 225 00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:01,840 Speaker 1: immigration law is the is the second most complicated and 226 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:05,440 Speaker 1: byzantine part of our immigration our legal system, after the 227 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:10,680 Speaker 1: tax code. And so one of the important elements of 228 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 1: a better immigration policy is radical simplification. In other words, 229 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 1: streamlined stuff, cut out all of this nonsense. And the 230 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 1: fact is the immigration lawyers and the rest of them 231 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:25,960 Speaker 1: like that stuff because it creates employment for them, just 232 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 1: like tax lawyers. Lawyers complicated the voice lawyers. I suppose, yeah, 233 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:33,880 Speaker 1: well you're luckily you will only say I suppose I 234 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:38,439 Speaker 1: can speak from personal experience. UM. Hey, Mark Rikorian Um, 235 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:41,600 Speaker 1: executive director, Center for Immigration Studies, Thanks for coming on today. 236 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:44,080 Speaker 1: Very enlightening. I appreciate the fact that you always have 237 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 1: so much knowledge at your fingertips. Thanks for coming on. 238 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 1: Thank you.