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Speaker 1: Welcome to today's edition of the Clay Travis and Buck

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Speaker 1: Sexton Show podcast, taking off the third hour of Clayan

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Speaker 1: Buck right now, and we're joined by Andy McCarthy.

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Speaker 2: He was just with us earlier this week.

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Speaker 1: He is of Fox News and National Review and formerly

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Speaker 1: of the Southern District of New York.

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Speaker 2: Where he was a.

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Speaker 1: Prosecutor for I think it was twenty three years.

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Speaker 2: If I get that right, I'm close to it. Andy,

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Speaker 2: Thank you for being back with us.

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Speaker 1: The Supreme Court has made a move and it could

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Speaker 1: be big for Trump among other individuals. What can you

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Speaker 1: tell us about, First of all, what's the court doing

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Speaker 1: and what does it mean?

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Speaker 3: Andy, in I want to say about probably less than

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Speaker 3: a year ago, maybe a round a year ago, the

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Speaker 3: DC Circuit got three of these, maybe it was more

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Speaker 3: than three capital riot cases where what the defendants claimed

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Speaker 3: was that the statute, the Obstruction Stone statue, did not

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Speaker 3: apply to their behavior and that it was, in any event,

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Speaker 3: on constitutionally vague. And this claim and I will get

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Speaker 3: to why if you want me to, but I think

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Speaker 3: Trump has a better one than they had. This claim

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Speaker 3: so bollocked the DC Circuit. The three judge panel issued

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Speaker 3: each judge issued an opinion, and it was hard to

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Speaker 3: tell at the end of it ball which opinion was

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Speaker 3: the majority opinion. That's how split they were on the statue.

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Speaker 3: And one of the judges was a very good judge,

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Speaker 3: Greg Katsus, a Trump appointee who's a solid conservative lawyer

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Speaker 3: I think worked in the Bush Justice Department. But he

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Speaker 3: pointed out that the way the statute is written, the

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Speaker 3: nub of it is the word corruptly, which is such

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Speaker 3: a vague term that if you don't have some objective

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Speaker 3: limitations on it, it invites all kinds of prosecutorial mischief.

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Speaker 3: So their claim was that the obstruction statute is essentially

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Speaker 3: about things that you would do to destroy or tamper

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Speaker 3: with evidence at a proceeding, like witness tampering or fiddling

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Speaker 3: with documents and that sort of thing, and there's a

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Speaker 3: very broad provision in it that says, you know, otherwise

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Speaker 3: corruptly obstructs, And what they were arguing was the only

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Speaker 3: way you can read otherwise there is in conjunction with

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Speaker 3: the things that go to evidence tampering, and it doesn't

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Speaker 3: it doesn't apply in a case where the claim is

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Speaker 3: that basically, you know, the riot prevented the congressional proceeding

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Speaker 3: from happening at all. That it's not really an evidence

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Speaker 3: tampering claim. Now, I didn't think they get are with that,

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Speaker 3: but they got pretty far. And the problem with it

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Speaker 3: is the statute is very vague. And the reason I

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Speaker 3: think Trump has a stronger claim in the end is

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Speaker 3: he's not involved. And we keep, we have to keep

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Speaker 3: stressing this. He is not charged with any violent crime.

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Speaker 3: He's not charged with incitement, he's not charged with anything

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Speaker 3: to do with the riot. The claim against him is

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Speaker 3: that he posited a kakamami legal theory for invalidating electoral

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Speaker 3: votes that he supposedly knew was baseless. That's a real reach.

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Speaker 3: You know, as I've said a number of times, if

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Speaker 3: you know when I was a prosecutor, Buck, you just

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Speaker 3: referred to me being one a long time man. If

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Speaker 3: if a frivolous legal theory was obstruction of justice or

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Speaker 3: obstruction of a proceeding, I could have indicted five people

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Speaker 3: a day for obstruction.

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Speaker 4: And you probably would have loved to have that to

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Speaker 4: hang over the lawyers that were opposing you at the

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Speaker 4: defense attorneys, those awful guys. All right, So here's what

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Speaker 4: I The reason why I definitely wanted to bring you

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Speaker 4: back is as soon as I saw this news. My

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Speaker 4: first takeaway from the Trump angle, and you've raised a

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Speaker 4: lot of really good parts there is to me, there's

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Speaker 4: no way these two charges, this is two of the

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Speaker 4: four charges that are being brought by by Jack Smith.

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Speaker 4: To me, there's no way that that could go to

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Speaker 4: trial on March fourth with the Supreme Court a having

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Speaker 4: a hearing and then going to issue a ruling on

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Speaker 4: whether these are even usable charges.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 4: So, to me, when I read this and this morning

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Speaker 4: when this came out, I said, March fourth is out

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Speaker 4: the window. Earlier this week you said you still thought

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Speaker 4: March fourth would happen. Now that this is added on,

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Speaker 4: how would you assess timing, which is a huge part

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Speaker 4: of this, leaving aside even the legal arguments themselves, just

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Speaker 4: the time under which they're going to be made.

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Speaker 3: Clay, I think that we're not going to be able

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Speaker 3: to answer that until we hear the argument that the

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Speaker 3: Supreme Court's going to give Trump in connection, you know,

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Speaker 3: the case that they already accepted, or at least they're

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Speaker 3: pondering whether they're going to take it or not. And

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Speaker 3: the reason I say that is it's not clear to

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Speaker 3: me whether in order to address the immunity claim, if

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Speaker 3: they decide that they're going to address it, they need

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Speaker 3: to get into the rest of the case or not.

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Speaker 3: But I think if they signal that they're open to

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Speaker 3: getting into the rest of the case, which is I

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Speaker 3: think the reason Trump really needed to get this case

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Speaker 3: up to the appellate courts, then I think you're right.

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Speaker 3: It would be very hard to have the trial on

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Speaker 3: March fourth. In fact, you know, I mean, if they

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Speaker 3: get into the substance of the charges rather than just

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Speaker 3: the narrow question of immunity, I think it's going to

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Speaker 3: be it's going to be a long proceeding for for

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Speaker 3: Jack Smith. I've always thought that if Trump could get

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Speaker 3: this case up to the Supreme Court prior to trial,

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Speaker 3: he'd have a good chance of beating it, because we

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Speaker 3: not only have that DC Circuit opinion that I just

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Speaker 3: referred to, but weeks after that happened, the Supreme Court

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Speaker 3: threw out the convictions of two of Andrew Cuomo's cronies

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Speaker 3: in New York, and that was in connection with a

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Speaker 3: fraud theory, and I thought, I think that fraud theory

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Speaker 3: completely blows up Smith's fraud theory, even though it's under

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Speaker 3: a different statue, because what the Supreme Court said in

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Speaker 3: that case is we're very wary of vague terms and

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Speaker 3: statutes and prosecutors basically using their indictment power to write

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Speaker 3: up new crimes that Congress hasn't actually codified. Me they

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Speaker 3: were basically saying, we don't want prosecutors doing exactly what

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Speaker 3: Jack Smith has done in this case. In fact, when

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Speaker 3: the court came down with that case, I predicted, you know,

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Speaker 3: Smith can read the tea leaves here, he shouldn't bring

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Speaker 3: a case after the Supreme Court has spoken this way,

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Speaker 3: and he brought it anyway. So I've always thought Trump

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Speaker 3: has a much better chance if he can get up

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Speaker 3: to the Supreme Court pre trial. I think if the

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Speaker 3: politics and everything else will worse for him if he

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Speaker 3: gets a post trial and he's been convicted, because then

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Speaker 3: they're throwing out a conviction right now, it's only about

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Speaker 3: like is this legally kosher this case? So I think

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Speaker 3: this is a better setting for him. But I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if they're going to get into the

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Speaker 3: charges this early.

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Speaker 1: On Andy, how is Trump's legal team that's handling this

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Speaker 1: in DC. How would you assess them? I mean, I

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Speaker 1: know in the past there was a real effort. I'm

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Speaker 1: sure it's still ongoing to prevent a lot of top

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Speaker 1: legal talent from representing or even working with former President Trump.

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Speaker 1: How do they strike you the ones that are handling

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Speaker 1: the DC case.

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Speaker 2: Is this an a team? Do they know what they're doing?

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Speaker 3: Well, here's some bad news on that score for the

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Speaker 3: Trump folks. And this has been written a few times

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Speaker 3: by my colleague at National Review, Dan McLaughlin. On the

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Speaker 3: fraud count there is the statute that criminalizes fraud on

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Speaker 3: the government has been on the books for like over

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Speaker 3: a century, and the Supreme Court, in a case called

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Speaker 3: Gradwell And I think nineteen seventeen or so, threw out

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Speaker 3: a conviction and said, this fraud statute is not intended

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Speaker 3: to deal with elections. That's not what this that's not

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Speaker 3: what this fraud statute is about. The Supreme Court has

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Speaker 3: never cut back on that decision. They've cited it like

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Speaker 3: one time since nineteen seventeen in an opinion that Justice

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Speaker 3: Scalia wrote which seemed to reaffirm what they said the

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Speaker 3: first time. So they've never thrown that out and that's

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Speaker 3: like directly on point in connection with what Trump's been

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Speaker 3: charged with. In the legal papers that they filed to

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Speaker 3: the Smiths charges in the indictment, the Trump team did

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Speaker 3: not cite that case. So you know, it's not like

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Speaker 3: they not only didn't cite it, it's you know, it's

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Speaker 3: not like, you know, they must have done research and

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Speaker 3: they missed it. We've been writing this for writing this

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Speaker 3: since the indictment came out, so it's not like nobody's

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Speaker 3: I'm not saying everybody needs to read National Review, but

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's not like it's not out there in

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Speaker 3: the in the air, you know. So I was I

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Speaker 3: was very disappointed to see that they hadn't at least

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Speaker 3: cited that case because it seems to me to be

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Speaker 3: so important.

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Speaker 4: Last question for you, and thanks for being flexible on this,

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Speaker 4: because this is breaking news and we're going to talk

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Speaker 4: some more.

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Speaker 2: Would you, Julie Kelly.

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Speaker 4: You've been in, as Buck said, federal pri executions for

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Speaker 4: a long time. This news comes out and the Jack

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Speaker 4: Smith team again on the Supreme Court, taking a case

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Speaker 4: that deals directly with two of the four charges they're bringing.

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Speaker 4: This news come out comes out, and the Jack Smith

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Speaker 4: team reacts, how the Trump legal team reacts. How how

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Speaker 4: favorable do you think it is to Trump disfavorable to

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Speaker 4: Jack Smith when their legal teams are looking at this

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Speaker 4: and trying to map out their scenarios.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think hopefully the Trump team is all over it.

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Speaker 3: That's an easier question to answer play because it's so

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Speaker 3: favorable to them, and it sort of hammers them over

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Speaker 3: the head, I think in a big way. So hopefully

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Speaker 3: they'll get this and exploit it. As far as the

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Speaker 3: Jack Smith team is concerned, As I said when that

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Speaker 3: case came out where they threw out the convictions against

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Speaker 3: the Cromo Crony's I publicly said, you know, Jack Smith

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Speaker 3: ought to close up shop now because the Supreme Court

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Speaker 3: has sent a direct signal that they don't want prosecutors

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Speaker 3: getting creative, like he got creative in his indictment and

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Speaker 3: then he turned around and indicted him anyway. So you know,

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Speaker 3: I think what his approach is going to be, as

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Speaker 3: we discussed a second ago, is to try to keep

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Speaker 3: any argument now with the Supreme Court narrowly on the

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Speaker 3: issue of immunity and prevent the court from getting into

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Speaker 3: the substance of his charges. Where he's going to have

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Speaker 3: a very hard time. He's in a much better position

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Speaker 3: with Trump if he goes up to the Supreme Court

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Speaker 3: after a jury has already convicted Trump. If he has

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Speaker 3: to argue the case before then, and he's indicted it

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Speaker 3: in the teeth of the Supreme Court ruling saying don't

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Speaker 3: do this sort of thing, I think he's going to

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Speaker 3: have a problem.

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Speaker 4: Andy McCarthy, fantastic, Have a good holiday season, and we

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Speaker 4: appreciate you jumping on short order.

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Speaker 3: You guys too, Merry Christmas, take care.

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Speaker 2: Merry Christmas, Merry Christmas.

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Speaker 4: Indeed, our friends at Hillsdale College wish you and your

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Speaker 4: family as well a happy, blessed Christmas in a healthy

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Speaker 4: and prosperous new year. Since Hillsdale's founding in eighteen forty four,

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Speaker 4: it's taught at students by precept and example the teachings

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Speaker 4: and practices of the Christian Faith. The college continues this

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Speaker 4: mission in its lecture halls and classrooms in nationwide through

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Speaker 4: its educational outreach efforts. Hillsdale College free to pursue learning, character,

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Speaker 4: faith and freedom, and all they do because of supporters

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Speaker 4: like you. Your support allows them to refuse every penny of

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Speaker 4: taxpayer money, even indirectly in the form of federal student

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Speaker 4: grants and loans. Your kids will likely get a far

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Speaker 4: better education at Hillsdale than at some of these places.

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Speaker 2: As a result.

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Speaker 4: This Christmas season, our friends at Hillsdale want to thank

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Speaker 4: you for your kindness towards the college. They've prepared a

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Speaker 4: special video featuring their Sacred Music choir singing a little

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Speaker 4: town of Bethlehem and their beautiful christ Chapel at the

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Speaker 4: heart of campus. When you visit Clayandbuck foro Hillsdale dot com,

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Speaker 4: you can see and hear the choir and view many

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Speaker 4: other free resources to help you celebrate the season. That's

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Speaker 4: Clay and Buck four Hillsdale dot Com.

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Speaker 2: From the front lines of freedom and Truth.

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Speaker 3: Clay Travis and Buck Sexton.

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Speaker 2: Now Julie Kelly gonna join us at the bottom of

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Speaker 2: the hour.

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Speaker 4: I do think this is a big deal what's going

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Speaker 4: on in the Supreme Court as it pertains to the

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Speaker 4: charges being brought against Trump on March fourth. Appreciate Andy

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Speaker 4: McCarthy hopping in with us, But maybe the biggest deal

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Speaker 4: when it comes to the twenty twenty four elections is

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Speaker 4: what will the economy look like about ten months from

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Speaker 4: now as people make their decisions on who to support,

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Speaker 4: and we just got an early preview. Obviously things can

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Speaker 4: change in the economic picture rapidly. But Jerome Powell, the

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Speaker 4: head of the FED, just came out no increase in

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Speaker 4: interest rates, but he said that now based on where

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Speaker 4: in is that he can see, and I want to

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Speaker 4: make sure I get this. I want to make sure

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Speaker 4: I get this quote right because it's moving the markets.

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Speaker 4: The markets up around point one percent, sorry, moving up

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Speaker 4: close to a one percent.

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Speaker 2: Gain and near record highs.

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Speaker 1: Powell said that he sees the rate of interest rates

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Speaker 1: being basically over the increases and that he expects and

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Speaker 1: this has been what was expected going forward, that he

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Speaker 1: expects for there to be rate decreases, potentially as many

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Speaker 1: as three different cuts right now. The FED currently projects

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Speaker 1: a seventy five basis point cut in interest rates next year.

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Speaker 1: That would mean that they would move from around I

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Speaker 1: think it's between right now buck five point two five

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Speaker 1: and five point five is the current FED funds rate,

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Speaker 1: and it would drop to four point five or four

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Speaker 1: point seventy five during the course of twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 1: That would theoretically knock at least three quarters of a

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Speaker 1: point off, for instance, mortgages, maybe more if they ended

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Speaker 1: up cutting it more. Why does this matter, Well, it's

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Speaker 1: kind of a valentine to Joe Biden from the FED,

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Speaker 1: because what it suggests is that borrowing costs are going

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Speaker 1: to come down and that those of you out there

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Speaker 1: that are looking into getting a mortgage or are contemplating

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Speaker 1: having to finance something, that those financial rates are going

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Speaker 1: to come down fairly substantially. And the market likes that

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Speaker 1: because the Dow is now approaching an all time high

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Speaker 1: and the S and P five hundred, it is not

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Speaker 1: very far off of its all time all time high either.

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Speaker 1: They're going to be saying that the economy is fantastic

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Speaker 1: compared to what it was in January of twenty twenty one.

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Speaker 1: That's going to be the benchmark that they use. They're

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Speaker 1: not going to necessarily specify, but I mean, they're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about twelve million jobs created, which is insane.

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Speaker 1: It just means that jobs came back after COVID. Most

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Speaker 1: of those jobs are service industry jobs, things that got

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Speaker 1: shut down during COVID. But if they're able to use

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Speaker 1: the tools at they're disposal, I think you and I

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Speaker 1: both agree they will. And this is now a preparation

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Speaker 1: moment here where they're telling everybody, Hey, guess what raziers

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Speaker 1: are coming down next year, because I think right now

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Speaker 1: they know that whatever they can say in the media,

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Speaker 1: they can't change the fact that you can, for Americans

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Speaker 1: all across the working middle class spectrum, you could afford

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Speaker 1: half the house now that you could three years ago

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Speaker 1: in terms of your mortgage and qualifying for a mortgage,

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Speaker 1: you could afford half the house.

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Speaker 2: And it happened very rapidly.

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Speaker 1: That hurts people recognize that they see that they feel

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Speaker 1: those payments biting into their bottom line and making it

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Speaker 1: harder to afford groceries and gas and things that are

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Speaker 1: daily necessities. But Clay, they're gonna open up the money gun.

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Speaker 1: The thirty four trillion in debt or thirty three trillion

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Speaker 1: in change and debt that we're in, they're gonna forget

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Speaker 1: all about that, and they're just gonna be blasting cash

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Speaker 1: out however they can wherever they can.

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Speaker 2: And get the votes they need.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and then I think their response would be once

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Speaker 4: they win the election, they can go back to tightening

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Speaker 4: money policy monetary policy, because what they will take is

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Speaker 4: a lesson from this is, Okay, if we spend too

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Speaker 4: much and inflation gets out of control, we can fix

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Speaker 4: it in a hurry, because that may be what well

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Speaker 4: ends up happening. Of course, the problem is inflation is

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Speaker 4: forever embedded. And the real to me essence of the

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Speaker 4: race so far is everybody has less money in their

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Speaker 4: pockets than they did before because wage growth has not

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Speaker 4: outpaced inflation, which is why all of you feel like

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Speaker 4: you have less even if you have a.

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Speaker 2: Little bit more in turn of what your salary is.

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Speaker 1: You know one area of the economy that's going to

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Speaker 1: be going up and up and up in the future.

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Speaker 1: Artificial intelligence. We're in the cusp of a revolution. The

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Speaker 1: more you learn about it, the more you see. It's

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Speaker 1: going to change so much about business and our day

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Speaker 1: to day lives. And there are going to be some

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Speaker 1: stuginning of a new era that could make you a

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Speaker 1: whole lot of cash. When the market hit rock bottom

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Speaker 1: of a year ago in November twenty twenty two, Colin

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Speaker 1: recommended shares of a top software company, saying there was

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Speaker 1: a lot of upside with that company, and he was right.

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Speaker 1: Went up over two hundred percent since then. Look, go

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Speaker 1: check out what Colin has to say right now, because

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Speaker 1: he thinks that there's a chance a company out there

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Speaker 1: that he's recommending could go up even more. Go online

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Speaker 1: now to newaiproject dot com. That's new aiproject dot Com

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Speaker 1: paid for by Brownstone Research.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back, everybody.

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Speaker 1: Julie Kelly now joins us her substack is declassified.

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Speaker 2: You should go check it out on subsec. Become a

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Speaker 2: subscriber like Clay and I are.

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Speaker 1: Julie. Thanks for being here. Break it down for us.

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Speaker 1: What does this latest motion from the Trump attorneys mean

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Speaker 1: for the overall architecture of January sixth cases and some

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Speaker 1: of the defendants who have even already been found guilty.

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Speaker 5: So this is related to the very encouraging news today

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Speaker 5: that the Supreme Court will take up a challenge to

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Speaker 5: the Department of Justice's use of fifteen twelve C to

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Speaker 5: two obstruction of an official proceeding. This was a statute

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Speaker 5: passed after the enrun Arthur Anderson counting scandal that sort

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Speaker 5: of closed a loophole related to the destruction or campering

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Speaker 5: with witnesses or evidence. You might recall the shredding of

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Speaker 5: documents in that case, Well, what DOJ has done in

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Speaker 5: January sixth is weaponize that statute to criminalize political dissent.

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Speaker 5: You have more than three hundred and twenty January sixth

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Speaker 5: defendants who have been charged with this felony punishable by

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Speaker 5: up to twenty years in prison. This also represents half

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Speaker 5: of Jack Smith's criminal deay and against Donald Trump. Two

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Speaker 5: of the four counts are affected by are directly fifteenth

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Speaker 5: twelve C two related. So the notion, the idea that

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Speaker 5: the Supreme Court picked up what was called really a

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Speaker 5: muddy splintered ruling by the Appellate Court that upheld DOJ's

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Speaker 5: use of this statute, the fact that the Supreme Court

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Speaker 5: came back as many have predicted, and they will have

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Speaker 5: to evaluate how the DOJ intentionally misinterpreted the language in

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Speaker 5: that statute to use it as a felony charge against

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Speaker 5: so many Americans. For j six and now Jack Smith,

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Speaker 5: the repercussions here are huge, not just for Donald Trump,

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Speaker 5: which we can sort of talk about the timeline in

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Speaker 5: this collision course, but people who have already spent years

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Speaker 5: in prison for convictions or prea deals on this. Here's

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Speaker 5: at least one man, Matthew Perna, who hung himself in

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Speaker 5: February of twenty twenty two after he was told the

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Speaker 5: DJ was going to seek see years in prison after

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Speaker 5: he pleaded guilty to fifteen twelve C two. The human

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Speaker 5: wreckage left behind in this Department of Justice Merrick Garland

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Speaker 5: and Matthew Graves, a DCUs attorney, bastardizing this statute to

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Speaker 5: punish people and destroy the lives of those who protested

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Speaker 5: Joe Biden's election. This will go down in history legal

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Speaker 5: history as one of the worst abuses of power by

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Speaker 5: DOJ and at least fifteen judges on the DC District

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Speaker 5: Court who refused to dismiss this count even though they

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Speaker 5: knew DOJ was misusing it.

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Speaker 4: Julie, you've done great work on all this, and I

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Speaker 4: want to give you credit. I think you came on

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Speaker 4: with us months ago and raised this as Hey, this

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Speaker 4: is a looming issue for the Jack Smith prosecution, so

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Speaker 4: I want to focus on the Donald Trump aspect, but

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Speaker 4: also want to reiterate over three hundred people have been

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Speaker 4: convicted using this statue. Right, so if the Supreme Court

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Speaker 4: charged okay, if the Supreme Court looks at this, am

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Speaker 4: I correct Before I dive into Trump that Graves, after

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Speaker 4: this ruling and as the appeals have been going on,

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Speaker 4: has stopped trying to charge people with this offense and

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Speaker 4: prosecute because he's been worried about how it's going to

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Speaker 4: be held up by the courts.

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Speaker 5: Correct So Matthew Graves is a DCOs attorney Biden appointee,

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Speaker 5: still rounding up and arresting people every day, including today.

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Speaker 5: But once this appellate ruling came down in April, which

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Speaker 5: really resulted in three different opinions, so by law then

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Speaker 5: it has to go to the Supreme Court for clarification.

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Speaker 5: But since then, Matthew Graves has basically stopped using that

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Speaker 5: felony count against j Sixers. He switched it out to

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Speaker 5: civil disorder felony because they know that now that the

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Speaker 5: suppellate court ruling was so muddled and it was then

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Speaker 5: presented to the Supreme Court, and everyone has expected the

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Speaker 5: Supreme Courts picked this up. Even Democratic judges who have

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Speaker 5: allowed this count to go forward, they knew this was coming.

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Speaker 5: So the mere fact that Matthew Grace has stopped using

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Speaker 5: that count is very telling, but more so it shows

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Speaker 5: the arrogance of Jack Smith, who included these two counts

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Speaker 5: in the four town indictment against Trump in August.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so that's where I want to go to.

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Speaker 1: I'm looking at this now, Julie and saying, I don't

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Speaker 1: see any way possible this trial starts on March fourth,

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Speaker 1: because half of the charges that Jack Smith is now

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Speaker 1: trying to bring against Donald Trump may get thrown out

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Speaker 1: by the Supreme Court. I could see potentially Jack Smith

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Speaker 1: trying to prosecute only two of the four charges now,

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Speaker 1: or having to acknowledge that he has to wait to

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Speaker 1: see if he can still bring all four. Do you

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Speaker 1: agree with me that March fourth feels out the window

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Speaker 1: what happens now?

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Speaker 5: Absolutely, this is just another nail in the coffin for

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Speaker 5: this rushed March fourth trial date in Washington related to

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Speaker 5: the of January sixth. Of course, we already see what

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Speaker 5: he did this week, a desperate attempt to leap frog

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Speaker 5: the appellate court force the Supreme Court to weigh in

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Speaker 5: on this presidential immunity claim me by Donald Trump that

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Speaker 5: he is immune from prosecution based on being the president,

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Speaker 5: that we don't criminally indict presidents, especially after they leave office,

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Speaker 5: and he had already been impeached, which is basically the

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Speaker 5: criminal justice process in Congress. So aside from that, that's

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Speaker 5: very uncertain as well. But I feel like this is

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Speaker 5: even more important because this issue could be resolved sooner

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Speaker 5: than the executive and presidential immunity issues. SCOTUS could refuse

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Speaker 5: to take up this emergency order by Jack Smith, take

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Speaker 5: it back to the Appellate Court, and that could take

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Speaker 5: weeks or months before they come to a conclusion. But

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Speaker 5: in this case, we know for sure the Supreme Court

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Speaker 5: is taking it up. Oral arguments I'm told by my

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Speaker 5: sources could happen in March or April, this is when

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Speaker 5: Trump is supposed to be on trial for this very count,

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Speaker 5: and then in June the Supreme Court would issue their ruling,

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Speaker 5: presumably a very strong, very strong opinion, vacating this of

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Speaker 5: pelicourt ruling and interpreting the statute the right way that

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Speaker 5: could be. Let's say that the March fourth date sticks,

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Speaker 5: He's convicted of fifteen twelve Seed two and the other

440
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 5: fifteen twelve count, and in June, Judge chucktan is supposed

441
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:32,640
Speaker 5: to be sentencing him, but the Supreme Court comes back

442
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 5: and overturns the OJ's use of it. I mean This

443
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 5: is the sort of collision course we're talking about. So

444
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,480
Speaker 5: what is Jack Smith going to do now? Will he

445
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,720
Speaker 5: drop those two counts and supersede, which we've talked about,

446
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 5: I think for over a year at a superseding indictment

447
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 5: that adds different charges so he can cover his bases,

448
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 5: or will he go back to the court. I'm sure

449
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 5: Trump's lawyers are working on this. I've already seen at

450
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:01,240
Speaker 5: least one J six defendant today for delay and sentencing

451
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 5: on this count. Will Jack Smith go back and tell

452
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 5: the court we need to put this on hold because

453
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 5: of the uncertainty of this count. I doubt it, but

454
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 5: you know, these are the open ended questions that we're

455
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:14,640
Speaker 5: dealing with right now.

456
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:19,360
Speaker 1: Speaking of Julie Kelly, her substack is declassified.

457
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 2: Go subscribe to it.

458
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:25,639
Speaker 1: I mean, Julie, do you feel like I'm just wondering.

459
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 1: I know this isn't the most specific legal analysis, but

460
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 1: the Democrat system or the apparatus is just going to

461
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:37,359
Speaker 1: refuse to allow Trump to get through all of this,

462
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:40,119
Speaker 1: meaning it's either all delayed or on a You know

463
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:42,439
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, is there some other thing that you

464
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:44,399
Speaker 1: can see looming in the background here or is it

465
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:48,639
Speaker 1: really possible that Trump might end up not even facing

466
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,639
Speaker 1: either of these federal trials before the people cast their vote, Like,

467
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 1: how do you see this playing out?

468
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 5: It's such a good question because we also have the

469
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 5: May twenty that trial date that's still sort of sitting

470
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:06,440
Speaker 5: out there for the Classified Documents case. Now, in that situation,

471
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:09,160
Speaker 5: we have Judge Aileen Cannon, who has been very tough

472
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 5: on DJ and she actually suspended all the pre trial

473
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 5: deadlines leading up to that May twentieth trial date. She

474
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,720
Speaker 5: confronted Jack Smith's team. I was in the courtroom saying,

475
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 5: you can't assure me that the March fourth trial for

476
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,160
Speaker 5: Donald Trump is going to be completed by the time

477
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,120
Speaker 5: he is expected to be here in Florida on May

478
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:30,399
Speaker 5: twentieth for this indictment. You chose to bring these indictments

479
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 5: back to back. You knew they were going to be

480
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 5: in different venues. So she's already kind of called them

481
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 5: on the carpet. So let's even imagine that the judge

482
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 5: or Jack Smith, or because of the Supreme Court, they

483
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 5: kicked this Washington January sixth trial to what April May?

484
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,120
Speaker 5: The Classified documents trial will be gone. Then it will

485
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:53,080
Speaker 5: be after the election, there's no way that they can

486
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:57,480
Speaker 5: move forward with that. But do they have the hubris,

487
00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 5: the arrogance, the bloodline us to just keep pushing this

488
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 5: no matter what they do. I will tell you that

489
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 5: they do. They will go to any extreme possible to

490
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 5: make sure that Donald Trump is on trial this spring

491
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:15,560
Speaker 5: and to get a conviction. But it certainly has other ramifications.

492
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 5: And at what point what's the breaking point? You know,

493
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 5: you guys, at what point do any Democrats or legal

494
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:25,879
Speaker 5: organizations or anyone say this is enough. You've pushed this

495
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 5: as far as you can go. Now you're going into

496
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:33,920
Speaker 5: headwinds at the highest court in the land, like, what

497
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:35,320
Speaker 5: are you doing this for?

498
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:37,160
Speaker 2: Crazy people?

499
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, but even with this case, I mean, they could

500
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 4: not release an opinion until June, which would mean you

501
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 4: couldn't start till probably you know, you're gonna have to

502
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 4: sit for the jury. I mean, I just increasingly I

503
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 4: don't see any way even that this trial happens. Julie,

504
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 4: you're doing great work, keep us updated, have a great Christmas,

505
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 4: and well I'm sure be talking to you in the

506
00:28:57,680 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 4: new year.

507
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 5: Yes, thank you guys so much for covering all my work.

508
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 5: So grateful.

509
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 2: Thank you Merry Christmas, Merry Christmas July. She has done

510
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 2: fantastic work.

511
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 4: Right now, busy holiday shopping season acts as great cover

512
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 4: for cyber hackers who thrive during this time of year

513
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 4: and getting a hold of your info online. They do

514
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:19,560
Speaker 4: it by setting up bogus websites planning melwell malware on

515
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 4: your computer and phone. There's a group of these bad

516
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 4: guys that have even figured out how to track the

517
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 4: info on credit card readers in retail stores.

518
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 2: Too.

519
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 4: Point is you need a bodyguard. You can get one

520
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 4: with LifeLock. Their systems monitor the web twenty four to seven,

521
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 4: sifting through billions of online transactions looking for evidence of wrongdoing.

522
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 4: LifeLock detects and alerts you to potential identity threats you

523
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531
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533
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Speaker 4: LifeLock dot com use my name Clay as the promo code.

536
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 4: Need a break from follozis a little comedy to counter

537
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:37,480
Speaker 4: the craziness, so do we. The Sunday Hang, a weekend

538
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 4: podcast to lighten things up a bit. Find it in

539
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 4: the Clay and Buck podcast feed, on the iHeartRadio app

540
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 4: or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back in Clay

541
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 4: Travis buck Sexton Show.

542
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 2: Appreciate all of you.

543
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 4: Hanging out with us as we roll through finish up

544
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 4: the Wednesday edition of the program. Encourage you to all

545
00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 4: go subscribe to the podcasting search out my name Clay

546
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 4: Travis buck Sexton, and you will be well on your

547
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 4: way to making sure that you don't miss a moment.

548
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 4: No matter where you may find yourself during the holiday season.

549
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 2: You might be in home, you.

550
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 1: Might be anywhere around the world, traveling for your friends

551
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 1: and family for Christmas.

552
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 4: And New Year's and boom. You can make sure that

553
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 4: you've got us and you are ready to roll. Okay,

554
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 4: other bit of news we mentioned that the FED is

555
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 4: not going to is not going to continue to raise rates.

556
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 2: They're going to be cutting rates.

557
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:30,719
Speaker 4: They're going to be trying to put the fix in

558
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 4: which could be good for Joe Biden if inflation does

559
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 4: not tick back up, as they are bringing back down

560
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 4: some of the overall aspects there. But Buck, as you

561
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 4: look at what's going on here, I wanted to mention

562
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 4: we told you this yesterday, but to the extent you care,

563
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 4: you have got the endorsement of Nikki Haley by Chris Sununu,

564
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 4: the governor of New Hampshire. I don't know that that

565
00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 4: matters in the grand scheme of things, but I think

566
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 4: it's worth putting out there so you guys are all aware.

567
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:06,880
Speaker 4: The governor of Iowa, Kim Reynolds, has endorsed her. On DeSantis,

568
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 4: the governor of New Hampshire, now has endorsed Nikki Haley.

569
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 4: That feels to me like it's likely to lead to

570
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 4: maybe two different people coming in second place to Trump.

571
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 4: The news coming out today legally very favorable to Trump,

572
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 4: and that is kind of where we're sitting as we

573
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:28,800
Speaker 4: get ready to roll into Thursday. I also wanted to

574
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 4: mention this to you, Buck. We talked about this off air,

575
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 4: and I do think it's worth thinking about this punter.

576
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 4: Do you remember the story we talked about the matt

577
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 4: Arasa For those of you who don't know, this was

578
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 4: a San Diego State College punter. He was signed by

579
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 4: the Buffalo Bills to be their punter. And then there

580
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 4: was a story that came out where a woman had

581
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:59,240
Speaker 4: alleged that he gang raped her. They investigated that claim,

582
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 4: criminally found that he wasn't even there a Raisa at

583
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 4: the time that the gang raping supposedly occurred. They haven't,

584
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 4: I don't believe charged anybody because they're not sure this

585
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 4: woman's story is true. There's video evidence, all these different things.

586
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 4: She filed a civil lawsuit, so there was no criminal charges,

587
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 4: but she filed a civil lawsuit arguing that he had

588
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 4: sexually assaulted her. She now has dropped that case as well.

589
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 4: So you have yet another case now where a guy

590
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:33,480
Speaker 4: is one hundred percent innocent of wrongdoing, but the accusation

591
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:38,240
Speaker 4: of sexual assault was so potent that he lost his

592
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 4: ability to make a living in the NFL, and now

593
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 4: this woman has dropped her civil lawsuit, meaning that she

594
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 4: is acknowledging that he did nothing wrong at all. Buck,

595
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 4: What should happen when situations like these arise in your mind?

596
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 4: Because in my position, this has been happening. You know,

597
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:58,920
Speaker 4: in ernest, I would say, Duke Lacrosse, you can talk

598
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 4: about Brett Kavanaugh when you prove that someone has lied,

599
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 4: and I think this woman lied. I think that's what

600
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:08,439
Speaker 4: all the evidence supports. Now, shouldn't there be some sort

601
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:11,360
Speaker 4: of consequence for her criminally as opposed to, Oh, she

602
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 4: just gets to go on with her life now, and

603
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 4: this guy can never unring the bell.

604
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:18,400
Speaker 1: Of the accusation that was made against him. As a

605
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:20,880
Speaker 1: matter of law, there are supposed to be consequences, but

606
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:24,279
Speaker 1: kind of like our immigration laws, they're just ignored. They

607
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,240
Speaker 1: just ignore it. When a false there's a big difference,

608
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 1: And we make these distinctions in law constantly between unable

609
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 1: to prove something and able to prove that something was

610
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:39,280
Speaker 1: entirely false. Right, it doesn't destroy the notion of sworn

611
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:42,960
Speaker 1: testimony that people get in trouble for perjury. In fact,

612
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:45,879
Speaker 1: it is more likely to get truthful testimony because people

613
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 1: get in trouble for perjury. Right, you wouldn't say, oh, well,

614
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:50,840
Speaker 1: will nobody will ever be willing to talk, because what

615
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 1: if they say something that's not true. No, the whole

616
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:55,879
Speaker 1: point is you have to say what's true. And that's

617
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 1: also true about accusations that are being made. It's not

618
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 1: just when you're swearing an oath and a court of law.

619
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:04,120
Speaker 1: I think that people that make fake accusations that I

620
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:06,160
Speaker 1: mean the way First of all, it's already on the books, right,

621
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:08,359
Speaker 1: so we've got to deal with that. And it's I'm

622
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:11,960
Speaker 1: usually not a major depends on the jurisdiction. It depends on,

623
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:13,759
Speaker 1: but I mean, keep in mind, if you lie to

624
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:16,719
Speaker 1: an FBI Asian Clay under one zero zero one of

625
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:18,920
Speaker 1: the Federal Code, you can get five years, and if

626
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:20,879
Speaker 1: you lie about something that's related to terrorism, I think

627
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 1: you get a ten year. There's a five year enhancement.

628
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:24,400
Speaker 1: I remember this because we used to use this all

629
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:26,440
Speaker 1: the time the NYPD when they were working.

630
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:26,800
Speaker 2: With the FBI.

631
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 1: Guys, if you lie about something that destroys someone's life

632
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 1: and could send them to prison, you should go to prison.

633
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:36,279
Speaker 2: And that is what the law says. But the law

634
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:36,759
Speaker 2: should be.

635
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:40,319
Speaker 4: Enforced on that, I agree, and I would even go

636
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 4: so far if I was a legislator or a governor

637
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:47,279
Speaker 4: in any state right now, I think there should also

638
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:51,799
Speaker 4: be an examination of the whole concept of these punishments

639
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:54,840
Speaker 4: in the way that I would almost consider a mirror statute,

640
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 4: where when you lie about sexual assault you should face

641
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 4: all of the criminal consequence. Is that typically the man,

642
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:04,919
Speaker 4: although it could be another man, but typically the man

643
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 4: would be facing in the event that you make these accusations.

644
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:11,840
Speaker 4: I just think it's a no brainer. I think you

645
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:15,320
Speaker 4: want truth to be the pursuit of the criminal justice system,

646
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:19,360
Speaker 4: and when you find lies, there should be consequences. Big

647
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:20,759
Speaker 4: news day, Buck.

648
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:21,360
Speaker 2: I bet tomorrow.

649
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 4: I feel like every day is going to be a

650
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:26,240
Speaker 4: big news day for the next year basically. But Man,

651
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:29,760
Speaker 4: a lot of news dropping very favorable to Trump legally,

652
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 4: and I think very disfavorable to Joe Biden. Not just

653
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:36,319
Speaker 4: including Hunter certainly, but what's going on with Trump and

654
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 4: the attempt to put him in prison for political wrongdoing.

655
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:40,920
Speaker 2: It's pretty wild.

656
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:44,399
Speaker 1: I have more of you all tomorrow. Subscribe to Clan

657
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:45,279
Speaker 1: Buck podcasts.

658
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 2: Do you assume