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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wire to Hunt podcast, your home for

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Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,

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Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wire to Hunt Podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: your host Mark Kenyon. In this episode number eighty nine

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Speaker 1: ten the show, we're joined by Kip Adams to discuss

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Speaker 1: the current state of white tales in North America and

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Speaker 1: how things have changed over the past year. All right,

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Speaker 1: welcome to the Wire to Hunt Podcast, brought to you

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Speaker 1: by Sick Gear. Today. As I mentioned, we've got a

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Speaker 1: great guest, a repeat guest in fact, and that's Kip Adams,

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Speaker 1: the CUTIA May that's the Quality Deer Management Associations to

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Speaker 1: rector of Education and Outreach. And last year at right

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Speaker 1: about the same time, we had Kip on the show

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Speaker 1: to discuss the state of white tails in two thousand

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Speaker 1: fifteen and it was a fascinating and the lightning discussion.

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Speaker 1: So given the response we had from that episode, it

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Speaker 1: made sense that we should do a similar check in

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Speaker 1: this year to see where things stand across the nation

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Speaker 1: with white tails Today. Unfortunately, Kip was willing to join

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Speaker 1: us again, so we're not going to be around the bush.

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Speaker 1: As my co host Dan actually couldn't join us for

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Speaker 1: this episode, so it's just me and instead of our

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Speaker 1: usual BS session, we're going to jump right into the interview.

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Speaker 1: And with that, I know there's probably like three people

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Speaker 1: cheering in their cars right now, excited that they don't

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Speaker 1: need to hear me and Dan talk about stupid stuff.

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Speaker 1: So with all that said, we are going to take

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Speaker 1: a real quick break for word from our partners at

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Speaker 1: Sick of Gear, and then we'll bring on Kip to

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Speaker 1: discuss the state of white tails in two thousand and sixteen. So,

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Speaker 1: as you know, every week we take a quick second

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Speaker 1: to hear from our partners at Sick of Gear, and

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Speaker 1: today at wanted to hear from Sick of Product category

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Speaker 1: leader Dennis Zuck about exactly what it takes for a

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Speaker 1: new product from SICKA to make the cut and be

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Speaker 1: released to the public. So here's Dennis with some interesting insight. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, and it kind of goes back to some

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Speaker 1: of those simple first statements we talked about and talking

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Speaker 1: thinking about, you know, what is it this product needs

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Speaker 1: to do to be interesting and unique and what what

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Speaker 1: need does it need to fulfill? You know, So that's

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Speaker 1: part of it, and the other part of it is

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Speaker 1: is you know, you know, is it something that people

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Speaker 1: are gonna be happy to own and feel like they

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Speaker 1: you know, it was worth everything that they spent to

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Speaker 1: own it. Um, is it going to be We used

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Speaker 1: the term fit for use, which is kind of a

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Speaker 1: corny way of saying, you know, fit for the field?

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Speaker 1: You know, is it? Is it something that is ready

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Speaker 1: for prime time? And you know, for us, we we

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Speaker 1: weigh that really heavily. We we play the long term

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Speaker 1: bet here. We we believe you wear our stuff long

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Speaker 1: enough you'll come to really appreciate the details and the thought,

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Speaker 1: you know. And if we have a product that we

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Speaker 1: don't think lives up to that, then it just doesn't

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Speaker 1: make falls It falls short of the floor, It falls

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Speaker 1: onto the floor and never finds its way to a

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Speaker 1: retail rack. How much of that, you know, is left

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Speaker 1: on the cutting room table and disappears versus how much

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Speaker 1: of that is then put into the hopper for in

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Speaker 1: the future. Is are a lot of these things still

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Speaker 1: and evolving system and process? Oh tons of that? And

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Speaker 1: so that you know, you asked that stuff that question,

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Speaker 1: has that need gone away? You know? And maybe if

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Speaker 1: that first product doesn't hit it the way we wanted

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Speaker 1: to hit it didn't mean to mean the need went away.

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Speaker 1: And so if we still feel like there's an opportunity

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Speaker 1: to address that pain point you might have or create

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Speaker 1: that product that's going to make that difference, we're still

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Speaker 1: going and we absolutely have several of those and we're

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Speaker 1: just we just don't feel where we want them to

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Speaker 1: be yet, and but we're excited to bring them out

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Speaker 1: in the coming years. They take years of development, some

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Speaker 1: of some of the harder things, you know, they say,

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Speaker 1: if it's easy to do, everybody would do it. Some

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Speaker 1: of those products fall into that that that space. Pretty

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Speaker 1: fascinating stuff. So to learn more about SICK and what

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Speaker 1: new products they have released to the world, visit sit

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Speaker 1: could gear dot com. Now let's bring Kip Adams on

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Speaker 1: the line. All right here with this now on the

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Speaker 1: line is Kip Adams. Welcome to show. Kip, Hey, thanks

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Speaker 1: for having Mark. I'm happy to be here today. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're we're excited to have you back. It was just

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Speaker 1: a little over a year ago I think that you

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Speaker 1: made your fear first appearance on the Wired Hunting podcast

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Speaker 1: and that was such an interesting discussion that we wanted

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Speaker 1: to revisit that topic again here today, and that topic

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Speaker 1: last time was essentially the state of white tailed deer

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Speaker 1: in the country as of that period early two thousand

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Speaker 1: and fifteen. So today I'm hoping we can look at

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Speaker 1: that same question the state of white tails in America

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Speaker 1: or across North America for for that matter. And uh,

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Speaker 1: you know where we are today in two thousand and sixteen,

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Speaker 1: a year later and last year when we first talked,

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Speaker 1: as imagine, you remember, things were looking pretty rough. A

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Speaker 1: lot of the numbers that were coming in, We're showing

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Speaker 1: that harvests were down, record book entries were way down.

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Speaker 1: I think there's maybe a sense of a little bit

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Speaker 1: of a sense of panic almost that this kind of

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Speaker 1: white tail boom had busted. So to kick us off, Kip.

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Speaker 1: Now that we're, you know, a year later down the road,

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Speaker 1: it's your high level what's your high level impression of

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Speaker 1: where we stand today? Are Are things better? Are things worse?

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Speaker 1: Is it about the same? What do you think? Him?

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Speaker 1: I think overall, things are definitely better. Um, I think

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Speaker 1: there's still lots of issues impacting dear and some of

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Speaker 1: the things we talked about last year, some of the

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Speaker 1: problems are still there. But at least some of the

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Speaker 1: harder starter to turn around a little bit so um,

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Speaker 1: thanks to the things that we need to really be

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Speaker 1: paying attention to. But overall, definitely not worse and um

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Speaker 1: and I think anything a little bit better. Okay, Well,

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Speaker 1: that that's good news. And that's kind of what I've

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Speaker 1: been picking up as we're we're seeing new estimates coming

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Speaker 1: in from this past season, and as I talked to

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Speaker 1: people like you and others, definitely seems like maybe we're

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Speaker 1: we're back on track. And I guess that kind of

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Speaker 1: brings me to a question that I think a lot

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Speaker 1: of people talked about I've reference just a minute ago

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Speaker 1: in kind of in relation to this bust or kind

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Speaker 1: of like this bubble has burst um over the past

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Speaker 1: five ten years, as you know, lots of things have changed,

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Speaker 1: and some people are saying, you know, the white tail

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Speaker 1: population has crashed, the bubbles burst, etcetera. On the other hand,

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Speaker 1: I've heard some people talk about the fact that maybe

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Speaker 1: this was more of a mild correction and or a

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Speaker 1: little hiccup in in where things are going. Where you know,

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Speaker 1: this kind of change in the white tailed world over

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Speaker 1: the last few years, how do you view that? Was

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Speaker 1: it a crash, is it a correction something in between.

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Speaker 1: I don't think it's a crash. I think there are

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Speaker 1: some places that have certainly really lost a bunch of deer,

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Speaker 1: and uh um, I will come set to mine, particularly

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Speaker 1: just from the buck harvest to what's gone on over

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Speaker 1: the past decade. But in most places, UM, it's it's

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Speaker 1: more aptlete termed the correction because deers just couldn't continue

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Speaker 1: to to expand at the rate they were throughout much

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Speaker 1: of the range. For the last five to ten years,

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Speaker 1: most day walace agencies have been purposely trying to reduce

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Speaker 1: some dear herds. Obviously, when their herds are brought down,

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Speaker 1: then buck harvest actor decline. So today, you know what,

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Speaker 1: we're killing fewer deer in many places. UM. Much of that, though,

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Speaker 1: is has been prescribed, so it's not a crash if

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Speaker 1: you're prescribing it and you know we're trying to accomplish it.

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Speaker 1: I think it's a it's a lot more. I guess

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Speaker 1: a correction would be a better, better explanation for it. Now.

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Speaker 1: I do think there are areas where herds are brought

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Speaker 1: lower than there should have been. So you know, some

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Speaker 1: hunters were asked to reduce deer herds, and you know,

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Speaker 1: locally it could have easily take them too low. And

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Speaker 1: I have friends and colleges across the White Tales range

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Speaker 1: that leave in some of those areas that you know,

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Speaker 1: oh my gosh, this is this is way lower than

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Speaker 1: we had anticipated, and in many cases lower than the

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Speaker 1: agencies have prescribed. So I'm not I'm not arguing with

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Speaker 1: some of the people that say, man, I heard is

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Speaker 1: that's a crash in my backyard. I think with the

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Speaker 1: disease outbreak we've had the HD outbreaks over the last

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Speaker 1: five years and some other issues, there certainly are hunters

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Speaker 1: in local areas where hers are really down, but deer

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Speaker 1: managers often you know, talk about populations of deer, so

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Speaker 1: they manage it a little higher scale. The state agency

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Speaker 1: folks do so for the most part, they're now desers

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Speaker 1: are definitely lower, but I'm very confident they had not crashed,

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Speaker 1: and even in areas where they are lower than they

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Speaker 1: need to be now can be corrected relatively easily. Speaking

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Speaker 1: speaking of those corrections, so last year, I think I think,

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Speaker 1: at least from my standpoint, in the winter of two

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Speaker 1: thousand and fifteen January February March. I think from what

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Speaker 1: I saw, the kind of fever pitch of concern about

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Speaker 1: deer harvests going down and population struggle, I think it

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Speaker 1: kind of reached a pinnacle there, at least as far

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Speaker 1: as I have been paying attention to. And from that,

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Speaker 1: it seemed like a number of states addressed that very

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Speaker 1: issue you mentioned of the fact maybe in some places

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Speaker 1: our harvest was too heavy, you know, maybe we were

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Speaker 1: killing too many doughs, Maybe we were describing some things

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Speaker 1: that went too far, and there seemed to be some changes.

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Speaker 1: One example I can think of was in Ohio there

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Speaker 1: are a number of counties, um that they pulled back

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Speaker 1: on dough harvest totally. Or and I think in the

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Speaker 1: upper pendents of Michigan, same thing, something along those lines. Um,

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Speaker 1: do you think you know we're the examples of these

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Speaker 1: changes being made this past year that you think we're

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Speaker 1: the right changes? We have some positive updates been made

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Speaker 1: to regulations to to deal with this slight change in

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Speaker 1: population and what kind of harvest our populations can sustain. Yeah. Actually,

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Speaker 1: I think there's two parts to that one. Um U

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Speaker 1: that there are several agencies or state wilife agencies that

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Speaker 1: reduced analyst opportunity for this year are the ones you

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Speaker 1: mentioned Western Maryland um same way UM placed in the

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Speaker 1: Pennsylvania the same way places throughout the US reduced the

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Speaker 1: opportunity for hunters to take in on this year. So

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Speaker 1: I think that certainly helps and equally is importantly with

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Speaker 1: that you have a lot of hunters who are just

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Speaker 1: doing a better job today recognizing, hey, you know what,

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Speaker 1: Jeffer are very low So even if the agency of

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Speaker 1: my state willige agency tells me I can still shoot

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Speaker 1: three doll or five doll wherever the case may be.

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Speaker 1: I think a lot more hunters today are doing a

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Speaker 1: better job recognizing I don't need to fill all these tags.

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Speaker 1: In fact, if I don't fill all these tags, that's

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Speaker 1: probably better locally for me. So I think we were

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Speaker 1: also seeing hunters taking responsibility to try to be better

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Speaker 1: managers within their own area and help regulate the number

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Speaker 1: of dough that removed as well. So so I think

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Speaker 1: both of those situations will working together to help us out. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's that's a pretty big point. I think, especially kind

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Speaker 1: of tied back to what you mentioned a second ago,

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Speaker 1: where you know, managers or game agencies and whatnot. They're

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Speaker 1: making decisions based at a population level, at a high level,

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Speaker 1: trying to manage as best as they can, but they'll

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Speaker 1: never be able to manage down to the individual property

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Speaker 1: as as we as hunters see things. So even though

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Speaker 1: on my property maybe I'm seeing that things are awful,

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Speaker 1: I don't understand why our agency is saying we need

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Speaker 1: to kill more doughs when there's no doughs behind my house. Maybe, um,

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Speaker 1: of course it can. It can work the other way,

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Speaker 1: and that the agencies might be seeing one thing statewide,

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Speaker 1: but that doesn't pertain to your situation, and you as

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Speaker 1: the individual need to know when to pull back or

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Speaker 1: when to push forward at that At that level, I

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Speaker 1: think to your point, Kip, that's really where things almost

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Speaker 1: have to go if we want to have have a

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Speaker 1: well managed deer herd, and may of these cases you

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Speaker 1: just can't do it perfectly from the very highest level, right,

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Speaker 1: That's absolutely right, And you know, not our state wall

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Speaker 1: if agencies they manage it either a county level or

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Speaker 1: the deer management unit level or wildlife management unit level

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Speaker 1: or whatever you know it may be called in your state,

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Speaker 1: but obviously you I don't hunt at that level, you know,

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Speaker 1: we hunt at the property level, so you can get

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Speaker 1: within any deer management unit in the country, and I'm

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Speaker 1: sure fine pockets of habitats that has more deer than

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Speaker 1: it should and others that have fer deer than it

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Speaker 1: could support. So you know, hunters are an opposite end

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Speaker 1: of that. So I think it's just more important than

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Speaker 1: ever for process hunters to collect some you know, some

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Speaker 1: information about local deer heard observation data or whatever to

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Speaker 1: get a good feal for all right, even with whatever

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Speaker 1: my state taliament can be taken here, let me help

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Speaker 1: be as responsible as I can and remove the right number,

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Speaker 1: which the great numbers neither too few nor too many

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Speaker 1: to help the local situation. And I firmly feel that

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Speaker 1: hunters today are taking a bigger role in that than

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Speaker 1: ever before, and I see that as a very good thing. Yeah, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: so I kind of want to take a step back

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Speaker 1: here before we continue diving deep on a few of

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Speaker 1: these things as we are. Um, you just finished working

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Speaker 1: on the two thousand sixteen White Tail Report, which is

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Speaker 1: a great resource that you guys have the Quality Deer

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Speaker 1: Management Association put out every year. UM, and I know

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Speaker 1: that there there's a whole slew of different types of

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Speaker 1: information that that would be helpful. But having finished that

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Speaker 1: just recently, what what were the biggest takeaways for you

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Speaker 1: when you looked at all the friend data and segments

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Speaker 1: of white tail related information out there, what stood apart

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Speaker 1: for you as the big takeaways from the two thousand

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Speaker 1: six edition of this year's white Tail Report. I think

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Speaker 1: there's some some really important pieces of information and some

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Speaker 1: real important trends for hunters to understand or at least

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Speaker 1: to be aware of. But my personal favorite in it

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Speaker 1: is that once again, the percentage of one and a

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Speaker 1: half year old bucks and in the national buck harvest dropped,

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Speaker 1: and it dropped to the point that for the first

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Speaker 1: time in our history across the US now we are

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Speaker 1: killing more bucks that are three and a half are

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Speaker 1: older than bucks that are one and a half years old.

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Speaker 1: And that is just absolutely amazing to me. And you know,

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Speaker 1: there's certainly are a few states that still do not

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Speaker 1: collect harvest data, they don't collect age data on their harvest,

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Speaker 1: but the vast majority of the states do so they

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Speaker 1: report that data to US. And for the first time ever,

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Speaker 1: we killed more bucks that were at least three and

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Speaker 1: a half than one and a half, and that is

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Speaker 1: incredibly special and something that every hunters should be proud of. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So so speaking of that, um, of course, you know,

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Speaker 1: being a member of the Quality Deer Management Association and

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Speaker 1: really being a supporter and in line with many of

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Speaker 1: the different things that you guys are promoting and talking about. Um,

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Speaker 1: this is something I'm excited about. But for someone who

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Speaker 1: maybe doesn't have experience with the ideas of quality deer

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Speaker 1: management or the benefits of their being this higher percentage

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Speaker 1: of three and a half or older deer, Just for

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Speaker 1: those people that maybe don't really see why this is

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Speaker 1: so exciting, can you just walk us through why is

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Speaker 1: this a good thing? Why is this good for deer

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Speaker 1: and deer hunters. Sure, deer are a very complex animal

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Speaker 1: with how they communicate with each other and how they

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Speaker 1: essentially have evolved, and the more natural age structure that

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Speaker 1: as managers we can have today, you know, I mean,

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Speaker 1: in the better job we do shooting deer, so that

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Speaker 1: the standing proper deer has as natural of an age

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Speaker 1: structure as possible. It allows all those mechanisms of the deer,

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Speaker 1: how they communicate, react, work the way we're supposed to.

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Speaker 1: So it's just a It makes you, at least it

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Speaker 1: should make you feel really good to think, you know what,

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Speaker 1: I'm doing my part to allow this deer herd to

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Speaker 1: act the way that it was evolved. So and today

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Speaker 1: we're closer to that than ever before. So that's one

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Speaker 1: part of the second part of it, from just a

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Speaker 1: pure hunting perspective, UM, you know, there are more older

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Speaker 1: bucks out there than ever before for people to chase around.

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Speaker 1: And even if you don't get to kill an older deer,

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Speaker 1: just the fact that you have those older bucks in

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Speaker 1: the population create an entirely different hunting opportunity. Older bucks

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Speaker 1: leave a lot more rubs, they leave a lot more scrapes,

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Speaker 1: they do a lot more calling, they interact a lot

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Speaker 1: more during the breeding season. So it's an entirely different

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Speaker 1: opportunity to hunt a population of deer that has some

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Speaker 1: older bucks in it. And then obviously at the end,

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Speaker 1: hunters love antlers and and uh and big deer, whether

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Speaker 1: it's big bodies or big antlers. And the fact that

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Speaker 1: you have a higher percentage of bucks out there today

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Speaker 1: in those older age classes UM just gives the opportunity

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Speaker 1: to both photographs, see and shoot. UM many bigger deer

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Speaker 1: than we had even five or ten years ago available

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Speaker 1: to us. Yeah. Yeah, I can definitely say that I've

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Speaker 1: seen a lot of those benefits myself, both the places

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Speaker 1: that I've been able to manage properties and other places

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Speaker 1: where I've walked into a state maybe that just has

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Speaker 1: a has a higher population of older age class. Dear,

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Speaker 1: it's it's I mean, as you know, kid, it's just

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Speaker 1: a different situation. One of the one of my favorite

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Speaker 1: things is just like the dear behavior that you get

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Speaker 1: to see is so much different in a population that's

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Speaker 1: more natural when there's a you know, more mature deer.

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Speaker 1: You get to see things like dear fighting, You get

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Speaker 1: to see that happen, You get to see intense competition

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Speaker 1: during the rut, and all the other things that come

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Speaker 1: with that. Um you get like, for example, for the

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Speaker 1: longest time I grew up hunting in Michigan, I never

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Speaker 1: saw a deer over two years old. And then the

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Speaker 1: first time I went and hunted in Iowa, I had

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Speaker 1: like a five year old, supermature great big nine point

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Speaker 1: within like forty yards of me. I was filming a

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Speaker 1: buddy hunting and this buck was snort wheezing over and

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Speaker 1: over and over again for like thirty minutes. And that's

339
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Speaker 1: something I never heard in my life to that point.

340
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Speaker 1: I never got to see anything like that. And those

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Speaker 1: are the types of just awesome experiences I think you

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Speaker 1: can have when you're in a situation where that population

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Speaker 1: is more balanced. Um hunters love the challenge of calling

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Speaker 1: a turkey in, or just the involvement of interacting with

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Speaker 1: an animal. Same thing else as why I like turkey,

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Speaker 1: and that's why I like uh duck hunton and goose hunting.

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Speaker 1: I love the interaction with the animal. And now, more

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Speaker 1: than ever before, deer hunters are having that same opportunity.

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Speaker 1: So that's pretty cool. Yeah. So, so here's the thing

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Speaker 1: about the mature buck numbers that that you shared in

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Speaker 1: this report. You know, I've posted some articles about it,

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Speaker 1: and I think other media publications have been sharing this

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Speaker 1: great news. Excuse me, But inevitably you hear people say,

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Speaker 1: and this is whether you're talking about age, structure of

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Speaker 1: a deer herd or just the numbers of deer harvested.

356
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Speaker 1: People say, well, how could you know that that percentage

357
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Speaker 1: of three and a half year old bucks were killed?

358
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Speaker 1: Nobody in my state tells what, how older bucks were anyways?

359
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Speaker 1: Or how can you claim that deer were killed this

360
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Speaker 1: last year? You never saw my dear um. So this

361
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Speaker 1: this raised the question that lots of people have. I

362
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Speaker 1: just recently worked on a little article about it, so

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Speaker 1: I've been kind of asking these questions myself too and

364
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Speaker 1: trying to understand it. But for listeners, Kip, can you

365
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Speaker 1: can you walk us through how state deer harvest estimates

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Speaker 1: UM are our creative are discovered and shared. I know

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Speaker 1: you guys have a section in the White Tail Report

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Speaker 1: about this that's pretty fascinating. I'd love to hear from

369
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Speaker 1: you on it. Yeah, there's actually two parts to that.

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Speaker 1: One is how they estimate the actual harvest or the number,

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00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:40,280
Speaker 1: and the second is, which is a different question, is

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Speaker 1: how they estimate the age structure of it. So we'll

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Speaker 1: do the harvest first and then move on to the

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Speaker 1: age structure. Perfect and the states do this in different ways,

375
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Speaker 1: but there's really two main techniques that the agencies will

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Speaker 1: used to estimate their harvest. And and what we reported

377
00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:56,719
Speaker 1: this year in our What Tail Report is some states

378
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Speaker 1: report the minimum number of deer they got killed, while

379
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Speaker 1: others try to report the total number of deer or

380
00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:05,320
Speaker 1: they you know, they estimate what that is, and I

381
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Speaker 1: obviously estimating the total deer kill in my opinion, is

382
00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:12,800
Speaker 1: far better. Um. But what most will do is historically,

383
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Speaker 1: when we had very short seasons, real well defined seasons,

384
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Speaker 1: most deer were killed over you know, a small period

385
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Speaker 1: of time, almost every state agency had a check station

386
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Speaker 1: or hunters will bring their deer in and biologists and

387
00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:26,960
Speaker 1: technicians from the agencies could look at them, and that

388
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Speaker 1: provides some confidence to the hunters that the agencies were

389
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:32,680
Speaker 1: we're getting their hands on deer and and things were good.

390
00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:35,080
Speaker 1: And uh And I'm a big fan of check stations.

391
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Speaker 1: I really really like mostly because I like the interaction

392
00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:41,080
Speaker 1: between the agency and the hunters gives them a chance

393
00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:43,520
Speaker 1: to talk and meet each other and not brand check

394
00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:46,679
Speaker 1: stations for for a long time prior test to my

395
00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:50,119
Speaker 1: employing with q d n A. But today and actually

396
00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:52,120
Speaker 1: they do get good data from them. But even then,

397
00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:54,720
Speaker 1: some people who kill a deer, they'll take them to

398
00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:57,360
Speaker 1: the check stations even if it's required. So the whole

399
00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:00,280
Speaker 1: idea of that that's the only way to get total

400
00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:02,600
Speaker 1: data is using check station is really false. I mean,

401
00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:06,760
Speaker 1: people people kill deer and sneak them home anyway. Um,

402
00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:10,560
Speaker 1: fast forward to today. Our seasons today are so much longer,

403
00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:13,119
Speaker 1: and we have a lot more seasons available, you know,

404
00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:17,480
Speaker 1: more both seasons, cross both seasons, early muzzle overseasons. And

405
00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:20,439
Speaker 1: given the fact that hunters just take advantage of them,

406
00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:23,520
Speaker 1: which they absolutely should and that I personally do. But

407
00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:27,120
Speaker 1: what happens now is suddenly, rather than killing the majority

408
00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:29,080
Speaker 1: of the deer and just a handful of date, they

409
00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:32,280
Speaker 1: get spread out over a few months. So to have

410
00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:37,280
Speaker 1: agencies man a check station, it's just financially not possible

411
00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:39,520
Speaker 1: in areas anymore because you just can't get your hands

412
00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:42,200
Speaker 1: on enough deer um in a short period of time.

413
00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:45,000
Speaker 1: So what almost every state has gone to now is

414
00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:48,359
Speaker 1: some other form of collecting data. Nearly every state today

415
00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:51,400
Speaker 1: uses some type of online checking system, or at least

416
00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:53,200
Speaker 1: that as one of the options for you to check

417
00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:54,840
Speaker 1: your deer. Where you kill a deer and you have

418
00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:57,119
Speaker 1: to report it, you can send in a card, you

419
00:20:57,200 --> 00:20:59,719
Speaker 1: can call a telephone number, you can just get down

420
00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:02,600
Speaker 1: and computer, and so they at least have that data.

421
00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:04,320
Speaker 1: So some people say, you don't what, I don't have

422
00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:06,639
Speaker 1: to report my dear, so they don't know, Well, and

423
00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:08,520
Speaker 1: the old days you didn't have to take you deer

424
00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:10,040
Speaker 1: to the check station either if you didn't want to.

425
00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:14,040
Speaker 1: So the accuracy there's not not a big difference. But well,

426
00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:16,879
Speaker 1: most agencies will do is they apply some form of

427
00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:19,639
Speaker 1: a correction factor or they get him an estimate on

428
00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:23,480
Speaker 1: the people who don't actually legally report their deer. So,

429
00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:25,760
Speaker 1: for example, in Pennsylvania, when you kill a deer, but

430
00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:28,159
Speaker 1: I'll use Pennsylvania because that's where I'm from, you have

431
00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:30,600
Speaker 1: to report it. You can send in the report card

432
00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:33,640
Speaker 1: or use online or whatever. And the online is easy

433
00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:35,720
Speaker 1: just such that I always do. So they have a

434
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:39,400
Speaker 1: measure they know everybody who reported a deer. Well, then

435
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:41,680
Speaker 1: what the game commissioned by Honest do is they will

436
00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:45,000
Speaker 1: go out and visit me lockers, food processors, that kind

437
00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:49,000
Speaker 1: of thing where they have deer and we'll collect information

438
00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:51,280
Speaker 1: from them. So in Pennsylvania, you have to tag a

439
00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:53,520
Speaker 1: deer so they can see every deer that's there, see

440
00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:56,239
Speaker 1: who killed it, and then they can collect data from

441
00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:59,080
Speaker 1: it themselves, go back to their computers and say, hey,

442
00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:01,520
Speaker 1: you know what I see. Mark Kenyon killed the deer

443
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:03,159
Speaker 1: and I had it. I looked at it today. In

444
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:05,639
Speaker 1: this meat processor. Let me go check our records and

445
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:08,680
Speaker 1: see if Mark Kennon reported this or not. And from

446
00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:10,960
Speaker 1: that they know that less than half of the people

447
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:13,879
Speaker 1: that legally kill a deer actually report them. And you

448
00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:16,000
Speaker 1: know what that part is. We should be extremely embarrassed

449
00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:18,399
Speaker 1: by that, you know, given how easy it is to

450
00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:20,920
Speaker 1: report it, and that you know it's in our best

451
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:23,760
Speaker 1: interest to report them. So is that is that an example?

452
00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:25,960
Speaker 1: Is that an example number? Kip? Or is that actually

453
00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:28,399
Speaker 1: what you guys have? And I don't know what the

454
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:30,760
Speaker 1: exact number is, but I do know that it's it's

455
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:34,919
Speaker 1: a less than on the hunters who legally kill a deer? Reporter?

456
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:38,200
Speaker 1: Is that in Pennsylvania or is that a Pensylvania And

457
00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:41,520
Speaker 1: the Pensilia Game Commission has has published that data. Um,

458
00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:43,720
Speaker 1: I just can't remember what the exact percentage is, but

459
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:47,399
Speaker 1: I know it's less than fifty okay, society, No, no, no,

460
00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:50,000
Speaker 1: that's a good point. So with that, you know the process,

461
00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:53,040
Speaker 1: our game commission will get their hands literally on forty

462
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:56,240
Speaker 1: or fifty thousand deer a year. He's the average hunter

463
00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:58,880
Speaker 1: has no idea that. So they say the game commission

464
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:01,280
Speaker 1: can't know how this because you know I didn't report

465
00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:03,200
Speaker 1: my dear or they didn't ask me if I killed

466
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:05,520
Speaker 1: a deer. Well, the reality of it is they get

467
00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 1: their hands on a lot of deer, they can double

468
00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:10,560
Speaker 1: check it with look, I reported, and then from that

469
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:14,440
Speaker 1: they're able to estimate what the total harvest likely was.

470
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:18,399
Speaker 1: So are they exactly right with it? Probably not, but

471
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:20,720
Speaker 1: I bet you they are within you know, a few

472
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:24,560
Speaker 1: percentage points of being exactly right. But the more important

473
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,080
Speaker 1: part of that is, since they do that the same

474
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:30,880
Speaker 1: way every single year, if they are a little bit off,

475
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:35,040
Speaker 1: at least their estimate from year to year is incredibly consistent.

476
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:38,320
Speaker 1: And that's the real important part from from the management end.

477
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:41,600
Speaker 1: So so that is a great example of how to

478
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:44,560
Speaker 1: do it. Now the other way of how states do it.

479
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 1: In many states in the southeastern US used this second technique,

480
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,040
Speaker 1: and I personally think that this is the best. What

481
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:54,159
Speaker 1: they do is they actually use a survey company that

482
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:58,760
Speaker 1: will randomly survey a certain number of hunters to ask them,

483
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:00,600
Speaker 1: you know, how many deers they shout, and they can

484
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 1: ask them all kinds of questions from them and using

485
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:09,320
Speaker 1: a statistically valid sample. What it does that allows them

486
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:13,200
Speaker 1: to then estimate what the total number of deer hunters

487
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:16,159
Speaker 1: killed their near and they are incredibly accurate. It's the

488
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 1: exact same strategy that we use in our political polls,

489
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:23,000
Speaker 1: because you know, in any election, any big election, you know,

490
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:26,840
Speaker 1: they run these polls by talking to a certain number

491
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:29,480
Speaker 1: of voters, so in many cases we know who's gonna

492
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:32,439
Speaker 1: win those before the vote ever takes place. They are

493
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:35,720
Speaker 1: incredibly accurate. And deer managers use the same type of

494
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:39,439
Speaker 1: thing to estimate statewide deer harvest, and that is a really,

495
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 1: really good way to do it in most cases, because

496
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 1: of so many hunters in the states, these survey companies

497
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:47,480
Speaker 1: only have to talk to about one percent of the

498
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 1: deer hunters to get a big enough sample to make

499
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:55,639
Speaker 1: them accurate. So average hunter doesn't understand that or may

500
00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:58,679
Speaker 1: not even believe it in many cases, but it uh,

501
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 1: it is incredib really accurate one done appropriately, So yeah,

502
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,680
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's natural especially if like for for

503
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,719
Speaker 1: in my example, I didn't really pay attention too much

504
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,680
Speaker 1: in statistics class in high school, so it kind of

505
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:18,080
Speaker 1: seems crazy. But through like you said, properly conducted surveys

506
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:22,320
Speaker 1: with a statistically significant sample size and process, you can

507
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 1: actually see what the results would be within that smaller

508
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:27,960
Speaker 1: sample size let's say ten thousand people or whatever. And

509
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 1: because of statistics that actually can be applied to the

510
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:35,440
Speaker 1: total hunters or whatever, it might be amazingly accurately. And

511
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 1: I was kind of digging into this issue myself, trying

512
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:41,240
Speaker 1: to see, you know, how accurate is it. And in

513
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 1: the case of Pennsylvania, there was a resource, the penn

514
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,960
Speaker 1: State uh Dear Force Study. I like it was. I

515
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:49,719
Speaker 1: was reading an article where they explained that they were

516
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:52,919
Speaker 1: trying to verify their survey and when they look at

517
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:55,400
Speaker 1: the survey that the random sample survey that they send

518
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:59,200
Speaker 1: out compared to the the on the ground harvest numbers

519
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:01,159
Speaker 1: that they get, I'm doing the things you mentioned, the

520
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 1: checkens plus the correction factor. They found that their accuracy

521
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:07,200
Speaker 1: of the survey was within I think two to nine

522
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 1: of the actual numbers they got, So surprisingly seems very accurate. Um.

523
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:16,480
Speaker 1: Is there is there any other way that states that

524
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 1: do this check to verify or is it just like

525
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:22,159
Speaker 1: the math is going to be right no matter what,

526
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 1: we don't need to verify it. No. M some most

527
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:29,479
Speaker 1: states don't. The ones they use the actual hunter survey. UM,

528
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 1: they don't need to verify because that's already statistically valid. Uh.

529
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:38,119
Speaker 1: The states that just require the harvest to be reported, um,

530
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 1: most of those do not verify. I believe the Pennsylvania

531
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:46,399
Speaker 1: in New York are the only two that do so.

532
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:49,399
Speaker 1: For the rest of them, um, they are reporting in

533
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 1: most cases just a minimum do you ever do harvest

534
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:54,639
Speaker 1: that they know of, and then they just use that

535
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,679
Speaker 1: number from year to year. So I think the majority

536
00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:00,680
Speaker 1: states do not know the exact percentage of hunters that

537
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 1: did report, you know, the harvest legally, like Pennsylvania knows.

538
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 1: So so what they based off in and is okay,

539
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 1: we have the minimum number of deer that we know

540
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,400
Speaker 1: we're killed. We'll use that number moving forward. So it's

541
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 1: it's a good number. But there are better ways to

542
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:20,119
Speaker 1: do it, um. In some cases more costly ways. But

543
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:23,639
Speaker 1: if you can get the total estimate, and particularly to

544
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 1: a hunter survey like that or checking those deals like

545
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:29,959
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania or New York does, those are much preferred methods

546
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 1: and produce a lot more confidence in that actual number.

547
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 1: So so did I hear you correctly come mins ago

548
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:38,119
Speaker 1: and you said that you believe the best option is

549
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 1: the servey. You think that that is the best option

550
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 1: I do because it is the UH is done often

551
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 1: by an independent company, often by Responsive Management, which is

552
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:52,159
Speaker 1: a natural resource survey company based out of Virginia. They

553
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 1: do work for all state agencies and federal agencies and

554
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:59,920
Speaker 1: from a natural resources and often Responsive Management of the

555
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 1: ones that conduct a survey, and they are just simply

556
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 1: the best of the business of what they do. So

557
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:07,359
Speaker 1: um in my opinion, that is the best way to

558
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 1: go for the agency because you not only get numbers

559
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:13,200
Speaker 1: to do, then you can have opportunities to ask other

560
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:17,440
Speaker 1: hunter related questions either on you know, their ideas on things,

561
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:20,399
Speaker 1: of the preferences for things, so you're getting that data

562
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:23,199
Speaker 1: which is top of the line. Plus you have an

563
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:27,200
Speaker 1: opportunity to engage those hunters on other important topics. So

564
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:31,240
Speaker 1: I really like those hunter surveys. That's interesting being from

565
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 1: Michigan where we don't have any kind of mandatory checking.

566
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 1: I've always complained about it, and I said, why, you know,

567
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 1: we should have a check and we shouldn't have just

568
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 1: a random survey that you know, just a handful people

569
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 1: to take. Being uneducated about it. I always thought that

570
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 1: was a worst option, But it's interesting now as I'm

571
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 1: starting to hear from you and doing my own research

572
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,440
Speaker 1: that that actually, that's a pretty good way of going

573
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 1: about it, um And I think there's a lot of

574
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 1: people probably listening that have been confused about this too.

575
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 1: So I'm glad that we could dive into it a

576
00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 1: little bit because I think it's a Once you hear

577
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 1: about it, it makes sense and you can understand why

578
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 1: states do it the way they do it. But when

579
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 1: you don't have any idea, it kind of seems like

580
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 1: these states are coming up with numbers and management plans

581
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 1: kind of willy nilly based on a handful of helpful

582
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,240
Speaker 1: people checking in their deer sharing data and everybody else

583
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 1: kind of keeping it to themselves. So it's interesting, very interesting.

584
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 1: So so mark that answers the actual harvest part. In

585
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 1: the second half of that is the age structure party, like,

586
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 1: how do how the agencies get that? And there's a

587
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 1: few different ways that they will. Some of them still

588
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 1: do maintain check stations, or they can collect biological data

589
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 1: from the deer coming in, you know that way they

590
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 1: can pull a jawbone or look at that job bone

591
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:41,479
Speaker 1: to get age data. Some of them require the hunters

592
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 1: or ask honors to send in the incisors, the front

593
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 1: incisors to their office, which they will then send to

594
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 1: lab for cementa manually aging, so they can get it

595
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 1: that way. Um. So there's different ways that they will

596
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 1: get that age data. Pennsylvania gets it by those meat

597
00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 1: locker checks where they can see the job bones of

598
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 1: those de So there's a few different ways there. Um.

599
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 1: So there's more ways that they're getting age structure data

600
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 1: than the not. Actually, Virginia is a perfect example. Through

601
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 1: their d MAP program, they require all of their d

602
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 1: MAP cooperators to collect job bones from all the deer

603
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,480
Speaker 1: that are harvested, provide them to the agency so the

604
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 1: agency can then age those deer. So lots of different

605
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 1: ways for that. The important thing there is at least

606
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 1: most states do collect age structure data. Um. It blows

607
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 1: my mind that there's a few that still don't because

608
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 1: I think man as a deer bothers there, I would

609
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 1: so want to know what the age structure that harvest

610
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 1: is and you know how it changes over time. There's

611
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:41,239
Speaker 1: there is literally a handful that that don't have that data. Um.

612
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 1: Most do. And with those even if or even given

613
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 1: that some states collected differently, um, I believe that most

614
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 1: of the states that do collect it at least continue

615
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 1: to collect it the same way each year, so they

616
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 1: do maintain that consistency across the gears, so they can

617
00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:00,280
Speaker 1: monitor changes in the age structure, whether it's going up

618
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 1: or down or staying stable. So you can you can

619
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 1: at least monitor those trends, which which is the ultimately

620
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 1: most important thing. That's right, Yeah, and that's what they

621
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 1: really really need to be able to do so. So

622
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,520
Speaker 1: so taking a step back then to the white Tail report,

623
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:17,720
Speaker 1: seems like the big piece of good news, the fact

624
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 1: that we've seen this kind of threshold pass where there's

625
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 1: more mature bucks being taken. Were there any other items

626
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:28,200
Speaker 1: of good news that you found as major um takeaways

627
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 1: from this this most recent year. Yeah, the sure, we're

628
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:33,360
Speaker 1: I think one of the really cool thing is going

629
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 1: on right now is something called the Wild Harvest Initiative. UM.

630
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 1: As a hunter, you know, I've preached the benefits of

631
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 1: hunters for years to to non hunters, and you know,

632
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 1: in the amount of wild game that we consume but

633
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 1: then also share with others, will actually some researchers from Canada,

634
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 1: Shane Mahoney from Conservation Visions and Newfoundland have started this

635
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 1: and he's actually starting an effort to quantify the amount

636
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 1: of wild game and wild fish consumed in North America

637
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 1: because his his contention is that there is so much

638
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 1: more game that is eaten than most folks realized. That

639
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 1: if that game was not there and it was not

640
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:18,720
Speaker 1: harvested and consumed by hunters and anglers, the cost that

641
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 1: you can on, the costs to US and Canada from

642
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:26,080
Speaker 1: the agricultural and would be astronomical. So think about it.

643
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 1: I know you're a big hunter and outdoors and think

644
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 1: of all of the deer and elkin turkey in the

645
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 1: US you lead each year. You think that if you

646
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 1: didn't have that and you had to buy that much

647
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 1: more beef and chicken, and I'll multiply that, you know,

648
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 1: by twelve million deer hunters in the in the country. Uh,

649
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 1: this is this is pretty cool. It's it's going to

650
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 1: be a monumental effort and that's why there's lots of

651
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 1: different organizations and people who will be involved helping this um.

652
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:52,280
Speaker 1: We are so excited about it at qdm A that

653
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 1: that we have pledged fifty tho dollars to help in

654
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 1: these efforts. And my personal opinion is that this has

655
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 1: a chance to show how important hunters are to society,

656
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 1: hunters and anglers, especially hunters to society, and for the

657
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 1: first time, you know, we have a great opportunity to

658
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 1: show non hunters and particularly anti hunters just how down

659
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 1: important we are to what's going on, you know, even

660
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:18,160
Speaker 1: just from a feeding perspective. So so the wild Irve

661
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 1: was initiative, I think is super cool and I'm excited

662
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 1: to see a guest started this year. Yeah, us too.

663
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 1: I We actually had Shane on as a guest last year,

664
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, as you know, kid, he's a

665
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 1: very inspiring individual and a lot of things he's working

666
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 1: on are pretty exciting and this being a perfect example

667
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 1: of that. So I did think when I saw that,

668
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 1: when I saw the qtu Ay was was stepping up

669
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 1: to help with that, I was pretty excited to hear it. Um,

670
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 1: It's it's definitely a worthy cause for sure. Now on

671
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 1: the other side of the coin, then when we're talking

672
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 1: about some of the different challenges maybe that are facing

673
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 1: deer and deer hunting, there were a lot that we

674
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 1: talked about last year. Um, what do you think this

675
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:00,680
Speaker 1: year are the are the greatest channel and just facing

676
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:06,640
Speaker 1: either the animals themselves or our traditionist hunters or opportunitiest hunters. Well,

677
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 1: I think we certainly had diseases sturnally still a big one,

678
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:12,360
Speaker 1: and we looked at a couple of different things of

679
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:14,720
Speaker 1: that this year. And one of the questions we asked

680
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:17,719
Speaker 1: every day whilife agency was, you know, what is the

681
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:21,360
Speaker 1: single biggest management issue that you face on a daily basis?

682
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:24,440
Speaker 1: I mean, would you spend more time and more resources

683
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 1: on than anything else? And for more When all the

684
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:30,800
Speaker 1: results came back, the largest by far and half of

685
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:33,840
Speaker 1: the states reported this the single biggest issues that they

686
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 1: spend more time and resources on our disease and captive

687
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 1: deer issues. And uh so what that means is that

688
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 1: they then robbed the opportunity for spending all of that

689
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:48,239
Speaker 1: time and resources on other things that would be more

690
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 1: beneficial the hunters, like hunter access, hunter recruitment, habitat enhancement,

691
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 1: and that kind of thing. So so I think that's

692
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 1: still a troubling, troubling one that that is such a

693
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:01,839
Speaker 1: big issue. And I agree that I'm not saying they're

694
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:04,360
Speaker 1: wrong and spending it time where they should, And I

695
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 1: think that it absolutely is the biggest because of some

696
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 1: of the impacts of that. So we see that, but

697
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:12,880
Speaker 1: also one of the newer challenges UM has to do

698
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 1: something from the law enforcement end. And I know we

699
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:17,520
Speaker 1: have some hunters that would said, man, you know, I

700
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 1: can't stand my law enforcement officers, or someone I said,

701
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 1: they love them. But wherever hunters fall on that, you know,

702
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:27,399
Speaker 1: law enforcement, wildlife enforcement, and it was a big part

703
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 1: of what we love to do. It's necessary, it's important.

704
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:33,360
Speaker 1: And last year there was a story out of Illinois

705
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 1: that you know, they lost a big chunk of wildlife

706
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 1: officers all at once. So we start digging in and

707
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 1: seeing exactly what was going on with this. You know,

708
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,360
Speaker 1: what were the trains when we found out is you know,

709
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:46,279
Speaker 1: there's just a handful of states that actually have more

710
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 1: wildlife officers today than they did a decade ago. Um,

711
00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:52,960
Speaker 1: there's a bunch of states that have fewer today, and

712
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 1: you know, and that's not good. That China is going

713
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 1: absolutely the wrong way, you know, given that particularly we

714
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 1: have more older deer today. We you know, it's just

715
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 1: an increased focus on wildlife in general. The fact that

716
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:06,399
Speaker 1: we have fewer people out there help them to its

717
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:10,400
Speaker 1: enforce those laws is not not positive at all. Right,

718
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,480
Speaker 1: if you're if you're concerned about poaching or people you know,

719
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:15,759
Speaker 1: not checking in their deer or doing all sorts of

720
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 1: different things that as individual hunters and manners, we of

721
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,440
Speaker 1: course hate to see if we don't have more law

722
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:24,800
Speaker 1: enforcement officers to actually help manage that and deal with that,

723
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:27,480
Speaker 1: we're we're gonna be putting ourselves in a worst position

724
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:30,960
Speaker 1: year in and year out. That's right. And to take

725
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 1: that one step further, we wanted to say, Okay, you know,

726
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 1: like how what is the density of wildlife officers out

727
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 1: there across the country, And it is amazing how much

728
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:43,920
Speaker 1: at varianties some states. Uh for instance, Maryland, Maryland has

729
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 1: more wildlife officers on a per square mile basis than

730
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 1: any other state, and it averages out that each of

731
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 1: their officers covers twenty eight square miles. So one officer

732
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:57,759
Speaker 1: twenty square miles is a lot of ground to cover,

733
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 1: you know, And that's the lowest in the country tree

734
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:02,719
Speaker 1: it goes all the way up to the other end

735
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:05,800
Speaker 1: of the spectrum is North Dakota. So each officer in

736
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 1: Maryland averages twenty eight square miles to cover each officer

737
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:13,000
Speaker 1: in North Dakota covers one eight hundred and sixty five

738
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:17,800
Speaker 1: square almost two thousand square miles. So you apply, you know,

739
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:20,440
Speaker 1: figurett the acoes that I mean is this funding and

740
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 1: and graded vranted that you know in North Dakota has

741
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:26,319
Speaker 1: a lot fewer hundreds than Maryland does a lot more

742
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 1: open land. But but still think about that if you

743
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 1: live there. You know, when your officer has to cover

744
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:34,840
Speaker 1: almost two thousand square miles, you know, what are the

745
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 1: chances that he or she, you know, we'll be able

746
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 1: to respond quickly to you know, somebody that's poaching near

747
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 1: you or something that's I mean, that's just absolutely off

748
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 1: the charts and not that's not not a good thing

749
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 1: at all. And it's not you know, North Dakota game

750
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 1: of Fisher's Fall and not criticizing them by any means.

751
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 1: I mean, all of these states, you know, both the

752
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:57,839
Speaker 1: law enforcement and in the biological and you know, it's

753
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:01,920
Speaker 1: all regulated by their budgets and so man or man.

754
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 1: But that's that's pretty amazing that there's a handful of

755
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 1: states you know that a thousand square miles and more

756
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:12,759
Speaker 1: that each officer has to cover, so US not not

757
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:15,880
Speaker 1: very conducive for them, you know, really being able to

758
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:20,320
Speaker 1: help somebody in a very local situation. Well, before we

759
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 1: move on to my next question for Kip, we do

760
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 1: need to pause briefly for word from our sponsors of

761
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 1: this episode, Bear Archery. As we've done over the past

762
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:29,719
Speaker 1: few weeks, I wanted to share a quote from the

763
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:34,080
Speaker 1: legendary founder of bear Chery, Fred Bear and today. Our

764
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:37,720
Speaker 1: quote is short and sweet, so here goes and the quote,

765
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:42,319
Speaker 1: the history of the bone arrow is the history of mankind.

766
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:47,279
Speaker 1: End quote. Isn't that just so true? The history of

767
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Speaker 1: the bow and arrow and archery and bow hunting. It's

768
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Speaker 1: just fascinating stuff, and so is the future. And bear

769
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:56,880
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770
00:38:56,880 --> 00:38:59,959
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771
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772
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:06,640
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773
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Speaker 1: more in learning about either of those, visit bear Archery

774
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:14,400
Speaker 1: dot com. And now back to the show. Yeah. So, so,

775
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:17,799
Speaker 1: speaking of budgets, this is something um that I saw

776
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:19,600
Speaker 1: you guys wrote about in the report as well, and

777
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:23,399
Speaker 1: it's something I thought about to a degree, to very

778
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 1: I believe a significant amount of the budget made available

779
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:30,120
Speaker 1: to these state agencies who helped manage our dear herds

780
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:33,239
Speaker 1: and enforce these important laws and everything. A significant portion

781
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 1: of that budget comes from license fees. Correct, And you

782
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:40,760
Speaker 1: guys did you guys took a look at how license

783
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:43,840
Speaker 1: fees have or have not changed across many of the

784
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:46,400
Speaker 1: white tail states, um recently. Could you tell us what

785
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:47,880
Speaker 1: you get what you've found there, and that would be

786
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 1: curious on your opinion on a couple of things related

787
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:52,800
Speaker 1: to that. Sure we are, we put that in in

788
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:55,840
Speaker 1: your right. Those license fees pay a big portion of

789
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 1: our agencies budgets. And I tell people is you know

790
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 1: what if you want to help wildlife, wile license You know,

791
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 1: even if you're out a hunter, just buying a hunting

792
00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:06,439
Speaker 1: or fishing license helps tremendously. And you know, and people

793
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:08,319
Speaker 1: off the roll their eyes that you're not a hunt

794
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:10,719
Speaker 1: Do you like do you feed birds? Oh? Yeah, I'd

795
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:13,279
Speaker 1: love to see songbirds. You know, well, sankahuna, you know,

796
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 1: help out by buying a hut license. That's a great

797
00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 1: way for them to be able to help. So, but yes,

798
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 1: with the hunting license sales. Then we took a look

799
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:23,759
Speaker 1: at eye you know, when was the last time that

800
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:26,560
Speaker 1: you actually increased your license price? And I'll be the

801
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:28,600
Speaker 1: first to admit that I know that, you know, we

802
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 1: don't like to pay more for a hunting license, and

803
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:32,680
Speaker 1: you know, no hunter wants to do that. But the

804
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 1: reality of it is, you know, if that pays most

805
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:37,880
Speaker 1: of the funding for those wildlife and wildlife management that

806
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:40,840
Speaker 1: we love, we should at least hope that those license

807
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:44,720
Speaker 1: fees can cover the appropriate amount to fund this stuff.

808
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:46,839
Speaker 1: So so we at to every state, you know, when

809
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 1: was the last year that you increase the price of

810
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:53,760
Speaker 1: your resident hunting license? You know, there's lots of different

811
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:56,920
Speaker 1: varieties of non hunting licenses and other parts of resident

812
00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:59,759
Speaker 1: youth centers. We just made it very clear and the

813
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:02,280
Speaker 1: isn't that hunting license when was the last year was increased?

814
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:05,520
Speaker 1: And there was only a handful of states that have

815
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:08,759
Speaker 1: increased that price within the last five years. Uh, a

816
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:12,879
Speaker 1: lot more states that increased it five to ten years ago,

817
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:15,760
Speaker 1: and unfortunately the majority of states that hasn't been increasing

818
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:18,360
Speaker 1: over ten years. So you take a look at the

819
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 1: cost of living more than ten years ago versus today,

820
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:23,919
Speaker 1: it's very different. You know, think about what we pay

821
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:26,399
Speaker 1: for gas or you know, or a rifle or even

822
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 1: arrows for our boat today very different than than you know,

823
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:32,200
Speaker 1: fifteen twenty years ago. And and I actually goes all

824
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:34,800
Speaker 1: the way back the state that has maintains are licensed

825
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:38,239
Speaker 1: the longest. And this just blows my mind. Kansas has

826
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:44,120
Speaker 1: not increased the price of their uh res since you

827
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 1: think about the opportunities of the hunting opportunities you have

828
00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 1: in Kansas. You know, tremendous, tremendous opportunity with deer, tremendous

829
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:55,160
Speaker 1: bird opportunities there. You know, people go to Kansas all

830
00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 1: the time to be able to hunt. And and that

831
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:02,319
Speaker 1: agency unfortunately is working under you know resident I mean

832
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:07,200
Speaker 1: license price it was based all the way back. Even

833
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:09,000
Speaker 1: though I know we don't like to pay more for them,

834
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 1: they certainly deserve more hunting license there to help more

835
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:17,399
Speaker 1: adequately fund a lot of the management efforts they're trying

836
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 1: to do, right, I mean, I think at least me personally,

837
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:24,440
Speaker 1: I would imagine a lot of other serious hunters out there.

838
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:28,279
Speaker 1: I mean, I would gladly pay more because I think

839
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:30,239
Speaker 1: maybe people have questions like, well, if we pay more,

840
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:32,280
Speaker 1: is it just going to some other you know, patting

841
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 1: the pockets to somebody else, or is it actually going

842
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 1: to go to our agency and conservation and all that

843
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:39,560
Speaker 1: kind of stuff. I guess I understand those questions, but

844
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:42,560
Speaker 1: I think if I'm going to pay extra for something,

845
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:45,040
Speaker 1: I would much rather be paying extra here where I

846
00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:48,000
Speaker 1: know that it's going to support a very important cause

847
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:53,920
Speaker 1: and a budget that's already significantly strapped these agencies and biologists,

848
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:56,840
Speaker 1: and I think they, as we've talked about their serious

849
00:42:56,920 --> 00:43:00,200
Speaker 1: needs for additional funding, we the people using it, be

850
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:02,080
Speaker 1: responsible for trying to help that a little bit. I

851
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:07,680
Speaker 1: don't think. Yeah, no, I agree. I agree. One other

852
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 1: thing that was very positive that we saw mark was

853
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:13,400
Speaker 1: hunter access was always a big issue. And uh, you know,

854
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 1: in a lot of plays, people just don't have a

855
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:17,320
Speaker 1: good place to go to hunt. So we have states,

856
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:20,279
Speaker 1: Uh you know how many acres of state owned land

857
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:22,200
Speaker 1: do you have right now it's open to deer hunting?

858
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 1: You know, this is not national lands, it's not national

859
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:27,759
Speaker 1: forests or national parks or anything in the States that

860
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:30,480
Speaker 1: people can get, but just state owned land. You know

861
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:33,160
Speaker 1: today versus ten years ago, And what we found out

862
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:36,200
Speaker 1: today there's over fifty million acres of state owned land

863
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 1: that's open to deer hunting right now, or at least

864
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 1: when the most recent deer season was in and uh

865
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:45,440
Speaker 1: in most states have that trend was up from a

866
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:48,399
Speaker 1: decade ago. So I had more land today state own

867
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:51,840
Speaker 1: land for deer hunters than than ten years ago. Unfortunately,

868
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:55,279
Speaker 1: there's certainly states to Texas or Kansas, they have very

869
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:58,279
Speaker 1: little private land, you know, I mean public land. It's

870
00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:01,040
Speaker 1: almost all private, so doesn't help them a whole lot.

871
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:04,759
Speaker 1: But for much of the United States, um, a lot

872
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:07,000
Speaker 1: of the states today have more land in the past

873
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 1: for hunters. So that's a good thing because they're certainly

874
00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:11,919
Speaker 1: not making any more of it. And as we've become

875
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:14,759
Speaker 1: more urbanized and people lose places to hunt, the state

876
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:17,200
Speaker 1: lands like this just become all that more important. So

877
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:20,000
Speaker 1: I was glad to see that that trend was increasing. Yeah,

878
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:23,399
Speaker 1: definitely access and public lands across the board, national land,

879
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 1: state it's important thing. As you mentioned, I think I

880
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:29,440
Speaker 1: think we had maybe talked about this once before, just

881
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:34,320
Speaker 1: about how one of the main reasons why people indicate

882
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:37,560
Speaker 1: them having had to quit hunting or not be able

883
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:39,279
Speaker 1: to get started hunting is because of a lack of

884
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:42,280
Speaker 1: places to hunt. UM. So this speaks to the larger

885
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:46,279
Speaker 1: issue of hunter recruitment to and retaining hunters. Um, this

886
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:50,640
Speaker 1: manas across the board for all those things. That just

887
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:54,000
Speaker 1: for sure, that's absolutely right. So I want to I

888
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:57,160
Speaker 1: want to jump back real quick to the topic of

889
00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:00,839
Speaker 1: license views. I'm just curious about your opinion on nonresident

890
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:06,200
Speaker 1: license fees and the dramatic disparity in resident prices versus

891
00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:09,960
Speaker 1: non resident prices. Is this is kind of where maybe

892
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:12,440
Speaker 1: we're seeing the opposite of what's happening on the residents side.

893
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:14,839
Speaker 1: On the resident side, it seems like, you know, these

894
00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:17,680
Speaker 1: these fees are very very very low, and maybe we're

895
00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:20,319
Speaker 1: not raising them enough to help out. On the other hand,

896
00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:23,400
Speaker 1: you've got the nonresident fees, which in some states are

897
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:27,400
Speaker 1: getting very very high and very limiting. Do you have

898
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:29,239
Speaker 1: any opinion on that? I mean, is that the right

899
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:33,000
Speaker 1: way to go to just charge nonresidents a huge increase

900
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:35,800
Speaker 1: in fee for for those people to hunt or I

901
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 1: don't know. I struggle with this myself, and maybe it's

902
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:40,120
Speaker 1: just because I'm a nonresident hunter in many cases. Um,

903
00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:41,480
Speaker 1: but I don't know. Do you have an opinion on that?

904
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:43,520
Speaker 1: Is that the right way to go? Yeah? Well, I

905
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:46,720
Speaker 1: think that it's certainly. I do like it that resident

906
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:49,640
Speaker 1: fees are less than nonresidents. I think it's a benefit

907
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 1: to the people living, you know, within that state that

908
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:54,280
Speaker 1: they do not have to pay as much as somebody

909
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:56,640
Speaker 1: coming in from another state. So I completely get that,

910
00:45:56,800 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 1: and I'm fine of that. Um. Having said that, there

911
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:04,960
Speaker 1: are amendous variants in nonresidencies for different states. Some states

912
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:09,200
Speaker 1: almost giveaway a nonresident hunting license, whereas others, you know,

913
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:13,080
Speaker 1: really really reap the benefits of the opportunity that people

914
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:15,800
Speaker 1: want to come there. And actually Illinois is a perfect example.

915
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:18,440
Speaker 1: You know, Illinois has a really good deer hurt else

916
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:20,600
Speaker 1: people want to go and hunt deer, and if you're

917
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:23,120
Speaker 1: as a nonresident going in, you're gonna pay through the teeth,

918
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:26,200
Speaker 1: you know, to get there. Um, I guess I don't

919
00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:30,560
Speaker 1: have as much of a problem with that state charging

920
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:34,200
Speaker 1: an adequate fee for nonresident as I do some of

921
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:39,160
Speaker 1: the states like Ohio that almost give away the nonresident license.

922
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:42,879
Speaker 1: And I'm so I've been very pleased that it wasn't

923
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:45,120
Speaker 1: that much. And there's probably some hunters saying, you know,

924
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:47,440
Speaker 1: that's terrible, why you know, we should be cheap, But

925
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:50,759
Speaker 1: I'm looking at it from I guess the funding end

926
00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:53,919
Speaker 1: and think, man, oh man, let's budgets are cut today,

927
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:56,759
Speaker 1: we as hunters end up getting hurt in the long

928
00:46:56,880 --> 00:47:01,440
Speaker 1: run where you have really inexpensive I guess nonresident licenses

929
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:03,680
Speaker 1: like that. So I think it would be a lot

930
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:05,760
Speaker 1: better off if there was a little more parody across

931
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:08,759
Speaker 1: the board on what nine residents were we're having to pay.

932
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:11,160
Speaker 1: In some cases it probably would be a lot less.

933
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:14,040
Speaker 1: You wouldn't have to pay nearly as higher fees, you know,

934
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:16,960
Speaker 1: maybe like in Illinois, if some of the other places,

935
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:18,600
Speaker 1: you know, it was a little higher, a little more

936
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:22,600
Speaker 1: representative of what the opportunity was you were getting. So um,

937
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:25,480
Speaker 1: you know, I think ultimately, and this has been the

938
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:28,080
Speaker 1: news lately, where you know, should non hunters have to

939
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:30,480
Speaker 1: pay some of the bill for the wildlife use and

940
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:33,399
Speaker 1: all that? And and I'm a firm believer in yes,

941
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:36,400
Speaker 1: because hunters have paid for all of us for so

942
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:39,399
Speaker 1: long that you know, I think other users should pay

943
00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:41,440
Speaker 1: a little bit. And some will say, well, yeah, but

944
00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:43,120
Speaker 1: then they will get to say at the table if

945
00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:44,960
Speaker 1: they do, and you know what, they already have a

946
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:47,160
Speaker 1: stake at the table. So as I don't think that

947
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:50,920
Speaker 1: that just because they pay it adds anything to them. Historically,

948
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:53,680
Speaker 1: you know, hunters were about the only ones sitting at

949
00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:56,040
Speaker 1: the table stakeholder wise, and that's not the case at

950
00:47:56,080 --> 00:47:59,680
Speaker 1: Hall anymore. There's a stakeholder group is much much bigger,

951
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:03,920
Speaker 1: and so these others that are benefiting from our wilefe resources.

952
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:05,759
Speaker 1: I firmly feel that they should pay a little bit

953
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:07,920
Speaker 1: of their own fair share to be involved with that

954
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:11,680
Speaker 1: as well, right right, And I think, um, you know,

955
00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:14,720
Speaker 1: I believe that there was some legislation that was was pushed,

956
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:17,320
Speaker 1: maybe a decade or more ago, trying to add some

957
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:20,440
Speaker 1: type of excise tax on other outdoor recreation items, non

958
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:23,760
Speaker 1: hunting related, hiking, camping, et cetera, that kind of stuff,

959
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:26,279
Speaker 1: and that was shot down. Is there any chance of

960
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:28,960
Speaker 1: something that ever ever happening again or have you heard

961
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:31,640
Speaker 1: winds of something like that being brought back to the table.

962
00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:36,160
Speaker 1: I haven't heard anything recently on that, so it's possible,

963
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 1: I guess as being considered out. I just don't know

964
00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:40,520
Speaker 1: about it, but um, I do think that it will

965
00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:43,960
Speaker 1: be brought back just because as budgets become more limited

966
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:45,719
Speaker 1: and they have to find ways to help fund some

967
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:48,239
Speaker 1: of the stuff and given that those other people are

968
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:50,680
Speaker 1: you know, are using those resources. You know, I think

969
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:55,000
Speaker 1: that's a very responsible way to coop that back. And

970
00:48:55,239 --> 00:48:56,759
Speaker 1: uh so it's a good way to do it. And

971
00:48:56,840 --> 00:48:59,399
Speaker 1: I have some first hand experience with that. First job,

972
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:01,080
Speaker 1: I had to out of schools for the State of

973
00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:03,440
Speaker 1: Florida or for Flow the Game and Fish and managed

974
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:06,759
Speaker 1: ten thousand acres down there for the state, and any

975
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:09,680
Speaker 1: hunters who came into our wildlife management units had to

976
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:14,120
Speaker 1: buy a management stamp and then that gave them the

977
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:16,279
Speaker 1: right to hunt on at that point, like four million

978
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:19,239
Speaker 1: acres in the state. Well, anybody who came in and

979
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:21,200
Speaker 1: use those lines that was not hunting didn't have to

980
00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:24,120
Speaker 1: pay a cent. And that argument was we're not shooting

981
00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:27,239
Speaker 1: anything or killing anything. But my argument was, as the

982
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 1: biologist in charge of that, a big part of my

983
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:34,600
Speaker 1: budget each year went to maintaining the roads and maintaining

984
00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:37,680
Speaker 1: the creek crossings and doing everything else so that everybody

985
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:40,640
Speaker 1: that wanted to use that property could access it. And

986
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:42,520
Speaker 1: I was glad to do it, but you know what

987
00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:45,239
Speaker 1: I would tell the bird watchers, You know, you tear

988
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:46,880
Speaker 1: this road up every bit as much as you know

989
00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:49,839
Speaker 1: somebody driving by hare hunting or you know, you need

990
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:52,520
Speaker 1: to use that creek crossing as much as somebody else.

991
00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:55,520
Speaker 1: So in my opinion was always even though they're not

992
00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:58,760
Speaker 1: shooting or taking meat home, you know what, most hunters

993
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:00,759
Speaker 1: who come on here aren't take too much meat home.

994
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:05,279
Speaker 1: But yeah, still they you know, they are using they

995
00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 1: are I guess, seeing the beauty of the place, they're

996
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:11,719
Speaker 1: seeing the wildlife, of photographing wildlife. They're using the resources

997
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:13,680
Speaker 1: that we have there to allow them to access it.

998
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:17,759
Speaker 1: So so I always felt that they should pay as well. So, um,

999
00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:21,279
Speaker 1: whether that comes back or not, I certainly would would

1000
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:24,040
Speaker 1: vote for it. And when I'm buying binoculars and hiking

1001
00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:26,080
Speaker 1: boots and all other stuff, you know, I'd be glad

1002
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:29,440
Speaker 1: that that part of what I was paying goes to

1003
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:31,839
Speaker 1: make sure that there are places there to be able

1004
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:35,120
Speaker 1: to hike and see wildlife long into the future. Yeah,

1005
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:38,000
Speaker 1: I agree. It just seems like a common sense thing

1006
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:42,560
Speaker 1: to me. Um, Now, I know, you know, increasing taxes

1007
00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:44,680
Speaker 1: or increases in license fees or any of these things.

1008
00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:48,120
Speaker 1: You know, it's kind of taboo. Obviously, lots of people

1009
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:50,799
Speaker 1: want to stay away from saying those words because people

1010
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:52,759
Speaker 1: don't like them. But at the same time, when it

1011
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:55,960
Speaker 1: comes to a resource that we value so much, I

1012
00:50:56,040 --> 00:50:58,080
Speaker 1: think we need to step up sometimes too and help

1013
00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:01,840
Speaker 1: take responsibility for it. So I want to take a

1014
00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:05,240
Speaker 1: step back again now to one of the first challenges

1015
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:07,680
Speaker 1: you brought up that are facing deer and deer hunting today,

1016
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:12,880
Speaker 1: and that is disease and captive deer related issues. UM.

1017
00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:15,000
Speaker 1: And I know they're kind of tangled in together, so

1018
00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:17,440
Speaker 1: we might kind of cross crisscross between the two, but

1019
00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:21,120
Speaker 1: starting with the on the disease standpoint from you know,

1020
00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:23,480
Speaker 1: from what I've heard and seen over the last year,

1021
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:25,960
Speaker 1: so we haven't had a real big year when it

1022
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:28,080
Speaker 1: comes to h D, e h D or anything like that.

1023
00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:30,680
Speaker 1: I'm compared to what happened in two thousand twelve and

1024
00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:33,880
Speaker 1: two thousand thirteen when those diseases had major impacts on

1025
00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:38,040
Speaker 1: populations across a number of states. UM. But I think

1026
00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:40,879
Speaker 1: c w D chronic wasting disease is something that has

1027
00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:44,000
Speaker 1: definitely still been prevalent and and we've been seeing more

1028
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:45,520
Speaker 1: and more of that pop up in the news over

1029
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:48,319
Speaker 1: the last year. UM. For instance in my home state

1030
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:52,960
Speaker 1: of Michigan. UM, Kip, what is your take on number one?

1031
00:51:53,160 --> 00:51:56,560
Speaker 1: What's what's the status of c w D across America

1032
00:51:56,680 --> 00:52:00,360
Speaker 1: this year and number two where things only on this

1033
00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:04,080
Speaker 1: on handling things, on researching things, on coming up with

1034
00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:09,279
Speaker 1: some type of solution or plans. What's happening here? All right? Well,

1035
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:11,200
Speaker 1: we now know that the c w D is in

1036
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:16,080
Speaker 1: twenty three states and two provinces and Korea and an

1037
00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:19,080
Speaker 1: elk and Canada. They got shipped to Korea, so CDBs

1038
00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:22,920
Speaker 1: in those places. And the real big things that came

1039
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:25,200
Speaker 1: out of two thousand and fifteen both research on the

1040
00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:27,959
Speaker 1: disease wise, and what we saw was that the first

1041
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:31,160
Speaker 1: time we saw that the plants can definitely uptake the

1042
00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:34,759
Speaker 1: prions or the infectious material that causes CWD and pass

1043
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:37,720
Speaker 1: it to other animals and uh and then that's pretty scary,

1044
00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:40,000
Speaker 1: meaning you know, if you have an animal that has

1045
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:43,440
Speaker 1: c w D and deer can transfer that disease you

1046
00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:45,719
Speaker 1: know through yearn and feces and that so if a

1047
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:48,360
Speaker 1: deer who has it defecates in an area, which that

1048
00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:51,440
Speaker 1: means is if if a plant grows there later, it

1049
00:52:51,560 --> 00:52:55,279
Speaker 1: can take up those pres are the infectious material from

1050
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:57,879
Speaker 1: that up through the root system up through the plant

1051
00:52:57,920 --> 00:53:00,560
Speaker 1: out into the leaves and then when other animals come

1052
00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:03,720
Speaker 1: and eat those leaves, passed that onto the other animal,

1053
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:07,520
Speaker 1: and that had not been shown before and until now,

1054
00:53:07,640 --> 00:53:12,320
Speaker 1: and that's that has serious implications for the spread of

1055
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:14,560
Speaker 1: the disease, you know, from a deer end, but also

1056
00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:16,760
Speaker 1: just from an agricultural one. And I also think about

1057
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:20,080
Speaker 1: the Midwest or anywhere you know where our road crops

1058
00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:22,360
Speaker 1: are in all the corn and soybeans and other stuff

1059
00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:25,760
Speaker 1: that that it takes to feed our country is grown.

1060
00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:29,960
Speaker 1: And now for the possibility of these pres being taken

1061
00:53:30,040 --> 00:53:33,279
Speaker 1: up into those plants and then put into other deer

1062
00:53:33,400 --> 00:53:36,279
Speaker 1: and the American consumer, you know, I think that's just

1063
00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:38,359
Speaker 1: the beginning of what we're going to talk about there.

1064
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:41,319
Speaker 1: And that was more concerning because the other big piece

1065
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:43,719
Speaker 1: of research that came out last year was that they

1066
00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:48,600
Speaker 1: had now seen some infection in humanized mice, some CWD infection.

1067
00:53:49,080 --> 00:53:51,239
Speaker 1: And what that means is, you know, the World Health

1068
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:54,640
Speaker 1: Organization has always said that there's general evidence that c

1069
00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:57,799
Speaker 1: w D has been passed to a human and that's

1070
00:53:57,800 --> 00:53:59,640
Speaker 1: a very good thing because obviously we couldn't eat that

1071
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:02,560
Speaker 1: and if it did, but they're always doing research just

1072
00:54:02,640 --> 00:54:05,600
Speaker 1: to see, you, like, how solid is this species barrier

1073
00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:07,880
Speaker 1: that keeps us out. So they take these mice and

1074
00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:10,080
Speaker 1: they put some human genes in them, and they were

1075
00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:14,000
Speaker 1: basically feeding them the CWD material, and uh what they

1076
00:54:14,080 --> 00:54:16,160
Speaker 1: found was gosh done it. They actually got you know,

1077
00:54:16,239 --> 00:54:19,880
Speaker 1: infected with it. And to be very clear, they were

1078
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:22,000
Speaker 1: doing this in a lab and they were getting this

1079
00:54:22,120 --> 00:54:24,399
Speaker 1: material into them, you know, in ways that it's highly

1080
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:26,759
Speaker 1: unlikely you or I could ever come in contact with

1081
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:30,680
Speaker 1: in the real world. But it's still the first time

1082
00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:34,440
Speaker 1: that they've showed, you know, it may be possible. So

1083
00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:37,120
Speaker 1: given that now they know it goes to plans and

1084
00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:39,960
Speaker 1: that they can make these mice infected with it, that's

1085
00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:43,000
Speaker 1: a big deal. And some people continue to say that

1086
00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:45,840
Speaker 1: cwds are you know, it's overblown, This is not a

1087
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:49,760
Speaker 1: big deal. They could not be more wrong. The absolutely

1088
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:53,960
Speaker 1: is a huge deal. The two biggest newspaper articles out

1089
00:54:54,040 --> 00:54:56,680
Speaker 1: last year in CWD. One of them were the headlines

1090
00:54:56,680 --> 00:55:01,239
Speaker 1: said that the experimental CWD vaccine failed initial testing. But

1091
00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:04,200
Speaker 1: it certainly would be good if we could have a vaccine,

1092
00:55:04,719 --> 00:55:08,040
Speaker 1: you know, because the biggest way that the disease currently

1093
00:55:08,120 --> 00:55:11,480
Speaker 1: has spread is do live animals. And when we move animals,

1094
00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:14,880
Speaker 1: you know, to two different game farms and shooting preserves

1095
00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:17,359
Speaker 1: and that kind of thing. So so if we could

1096
00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:19,879
Speaker 1: think it a vaccine that was certainly would be good.

1097
00:55:20,200 --> 00:55:24,080
Speaker 1: At this point we don't. And the second headline that

1098
00:55:24,239 --> 00:55:27,160
Speaker 1: was so big was said, the c w D kills

1099
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:31,880
Speaker 1: of the deer head annually in this one place in Wyoming,

1100
00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:34,040
Speaker 1: you know, and this is one of the first areas

1101
00:55:34,080 --> 00:55:37,040
Speaker 1: that actually got the disease. And what they see now

1102
00:55:37,239 --> 00:55:41,120
Speaker 1: is that of their deer die annually to that disease.

1103
00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:43,320
Speaker 1: That's a big deal. I mean, that's on top of

1104
00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:47,480
Speaker 1: the deer that die to hunters and cars and predators.

1105
00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:50,080
Speaker 1: And so think about that. You know, if if you

1106
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:52,719
Speaker 1: where you are in Michigan or in Wisconsin where we

1107
00:55:52,840 --> 00:55:55,480
Speaker 1: first had it in the east, you know, one out

1108
00:55:55,520 --> 00:55:59,399
Speaker 1: of five deer gone, that's that puts a lot fewer

1109
00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:00,960
Speaker 1: deer in the land escape for you or I to

1110
00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:04,640
Speaker 1: go see and and shoot. That's for sure. And the

1111
00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:06,880
Speaker 1: disease experts take a look at and say, you know what,

1112
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:09,840
Speaker 1: this is a disease that takes a long time to

1113
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:14,120
Speaker 1: really start showing population level impacts. And uh, I think

1114
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:17,200
Speaker 1: we're just starting to see those out west. And sotly

1115
00:56:17,239 --> 00:56:19,120
Speaker 1: means you know that we will follow, we will see

1116
00:56:19,200 --> 00:56:22,640
Speaker 1: him here in the East. But I am I am

1117
00:56:22,719 --> 00:56:26,360
Speaker 1: extremely discouraged at what the future CDPT holds for us.

1118
00:56:26,680 --> 00:56:29,480
Speaker 1: And I'm extremely disappointed at some of our folks in

1119
00:56:29,600 --> 00:56:32,120
Speaker 1: the US who continue to say that this is not

1120
00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:34,040
Speaker 1: a big deal on hunters don't need to worry about it.

1121
00:56:34,640 --> 00:56:37,239
Speaker 1: They absolutely need to be concerned with it. Yeah, it's

1122
00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:40,160
Speaker 1: it's it's uh. To your point, it's kind of disheartening

1123
00:56:40,200 --> 00:56:42,720
Speaker 1: to see some people that have a very large platform

1124
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:45,480
Speaker 1: in the hunting world say some stuff that seems very

1125
00:56:45,680 --> 00:56:49,560
Speaker 1: counter uh, counterproductive, and not in line with with what

1126
00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:54,440
Speaker 1: science is telling us in any way whatsoever. Right, um So, So,

1127
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:57,480
Speaker 1: I think to your point, the issue that I think

1128
00:56:57,560 --> 00:57:00,759
Speaker 1: some people have is that a lot these impacts of

1129
00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:03,840
Speaker 1: c w D are slow moving. The population level impacts

1130
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:06,680
Speaker 1: like we're seeing in Wyoming right now, that's not happening

1131
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:09,279
Speaker 1: yet in Michigan. The issue is that if we don't

1132
00:57:09,320 --> 00:57:12,239
Speaker 1: do something about it in Michigan, someday we might have

1133
00:57:12,440 --> 00:57:15,880
Speaker 1: that issue where thirty percent of your heard is impacted

1134
00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:18,200
Speaker 1: in dying from something like that, and you know, to

1135
00:57:18,560 --> 00:57:22,280
Speaker 1: pass that, to pass that down to our children or

1136
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:25,400
Speaker 1: grandchildren seems like a pretty awful thing to do, just

1137
00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:27,800
Speaker 1: so that we can have it easier now in today's

1138
00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:29,600
Speaker 1: hunting world, or don't need to deal with a couple

1139
00:57:29,640 --> 00:57:32,840
Speaker 1: of extra regulations or whatever it might be. Um. So,

1140
00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:35,120
Speaker 1: so that brings me to the next thing I'm curious about.

1141
00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:39,120
Speaker 1: When you look at how states handle c w D

1142
00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:42,640
Speaker 1: when they discover c w D and what they then

1143
00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:44,640
Speaker 1: do after that, it seems like there's a number of

1144
00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:47,280
Speaker 1: all sorts of different states are going about in different ways.

1145
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:50,320
Speaker 1: It doesn't seem that there's any consistent playbook that everyone's following.

1146
00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:53,560
Speaker 1: I think you can see a perfect example that with Wisconsin,

1147
00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:55,920
Speaker 1: who took a very aggressive approach to it when they

1148
00:57:55,960 --> 00:57:59,720
Speaker 1: initially discovered it and then incredib if I'm wrong here, kid,

1149
00:57:59,760 --> 00:58:02,200
Speaker 1: but when I understand right, they had this aggressive approach

1150
00:58:02,280 --> 00:58:04,840
Speaker 1: to begin with, and then after so many years there's

1151
00:58:04,840 --> 00:58:07,960
Speaker 1: been all sorts of public outcry upset with what was done,

1152
00:58:08,160 --> 00:58:11,480
Speaker 1: and now it seems that what's being done when it

1153
00:58:11,520 --> 00:58:15,200
Speaker 1: comes to c w D in Wisconsin is much more lax,

1154
00:58:15,320 --> 00:58:16,960
Speaker 1: and it's much more Okay, We're just going to kind

1155
00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:19,920
Speaker 1: of live with it. Um Can you can you tell

1156
00:58:19,960 --> 00:58:23,360
Speaker 1: me first, is that accurate and then number two, is

1157
00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:26,160
Speaker 1: there any kind of what's the best way to handle it?

1158
00:58:26,240 --> 00:58:28,160
Speaker 1: I guess when the state does discover or once the

1159
00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:31,320
Speaker 1: state has it, is there any type of best practice

1160
00:58:31,400 --> 00:58:35,320
Speaker 1: for for how to move forward in a positive direction. Yeah,

1161
00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:38,200
Speaker 1: and with Garden Wisconsin, uh, you know, in fairness to

1162
00:58:38,240 --> 00:58:40,560
Speaker 1: the DNR there, they were the first state east of

1163
00:58:40,560 --> 00:58:43,120
Speaker 1: the Mississippi River to get it, you know, clear back

1164
00:58:43,160 --> 00:58:45,080
Speaker 1: in two thousand and one and two thousand and two

1165
00:58:45,160 --> 00:58:47,480
Speaker 1: of the big years there, and so little is known

1166
00:58:47,560 --> 00:58:49,880
Speaker 1: then that the best day at the time said, you

1167
00:58:49,920 --> 00:58:52,560
Speaker 1: know what, you just need to eradicate deer and stop

1168
00:58:52,600 --> 00:58:55,000
Speaker 1: it from spread. So that's what the DNR tried to do.

1169
00:58:55,200 --> 00:58:58,640
Speaker 1: And obviously that failed miserably because they you know, they

1170
00:58:58,680 --> 00:59:01,000
Speaker 1: didn't have the support of the hunters and the landowners

1171
00:59:01,040 --> 00:59:04,000
Speaker 1: too to execute that plan. So it turned into a

1172
00:59:04,320 --> 00:59:06,920
Speaker 1: a fiasco there, you know, and and find us to

1173
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:09,680
Speaker 1: them though, because it just wasn't that much known about it,

1174
00:59:09,880 --> 00:59:11,680
Speaker 1: And it turns out, looking back, you know, that was

1175
00:59:11,920 --> 00:59:17,760
Speaker 1: absolutely the wrong approach to take um. So the loose

1176
00:59:17,880 --> 00:59:21,520
Speaker 1: public support moved forward, it turned into and a political

1177
00:59:22,360 --> 00:59:25,880
Speaker 1: hot potato that has never really allowed them to acquately

1178
00:59:25,960 --> 00:59:31,000
Speaker 1: address the disease, and so now rather than managing the disease,

1179
00:59:31,200 --> 00:59:34,360
Speaker 1: they are simply monitoring it. And that's what the official

1180
00:59:34,520 --> 00:59:36,800
Speaker 1: verbage out of Wisconsin is is that we're no longer

1181
00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:39,840
Speaker 1: managing the disease. We're just monitoring it to see how

1182
00:59:39,880 --> 00:59:42,920
Speaker 1: it spreads. And boys, from a manager standpoint, that is,

1183
00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:44,680
Speaker 1: he's the worst thing in the world to be able

1184
00:59:44,680 --> 00:59:46,160
Speaker 1: to do. And you know, and the DNR does not

1185
00:59:46,320 --> 00:59:48,480
Speaker 1: want it to be that way. They're they're forced to

1186
00:59:48,920 --> 00:59:51,440
Speaker 1: be in that way. So they're just watching it spread

1187
00:59:51,600 --> 00:59:54,000
Speaker 1: and spread and just grow larger in the state by

1188
00:59:54,080 --> 00:59:55,800
Speaker 1: the day. You know, one of the states that has

1189
00:59:56,360 --> 00:59:58,920
Speaker 1: one of the strongest hunting cultures and hunting traditions you know,

1190
00:59:59,000 --> 01:00:01,760
Speaker 1: in North America is losing a piece of it every

1191
01:00:01,800 --> 01:00:05,520
Speaker 1: single day because because of what they're doing. Uh. Fortunately,

1192
01:00:05,640 --> 01:00:08,880
Speaker 1: other states have learned from that experience, have learned from

1193
01:00:08,960 --> 01:00:12,400
Speaker 1: new research, and I think your state is a perfect example.

1194
01:00:12,560 --> 01:00:15,840
Speaker 1: You know, Michigan has a very calculated approach, I think,

1195
01:00:16,160 --> 01:00:19,040
Speaker 1: a very confident approach to to what they need to do,

1196
01:00:19,880 --> 01:00:23,120
Speaker 1: and they have thus far done a great job, you know,

1197
01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:26,760
Speaker 1: not dictating to the public what will happen, but talking

1198
01:00:26,840 --> 01:00:28,960
Speaker 1: to the public about what will happen what they need

1199
01:00:29,040 --> 01:00:31,680
Speaker 1: to do and asking for help and support, you know,

1200
01:00:31,800 --> 01:00:35,160
Speaker 1: and because by doing that, you've gone or under support,

1201
01:00:35,240 --> 01:00:36,800
Speaker 1: because if you want to go in and sharp shoot

1202
01:00:36,840 --> 01:00:39,960
Speaker 1: on some of these lannual you need access. And thus

1203
01:00:40,040 --> 01:00:42,360
Speaker 1: far they have done a really good job being good

1204
01:00:42,440 --> 01:00:45,960
Speaker 1: partners with the public. So I think that they have

1205
01:00:46,040 --> 01:00:50,000
Speaker 1: a much better chance of maintaining the disease in small areas,

1206
01:00:50,400 --> 01:00:52,680
Speaker 1: you know, and keep it from growing like we've like

1207
01:00:52,760 --> 01:00:55,800
Speaker 1: we've seen a growing Wisconsin. Do you do you think

1208
01:00:56,360 --> 01:00:59,560
Speaker 1: that something like a set of best practices or protocol

1209
01:01:00,280 --> 01:01:02,600
Speaker 1: is that something that that's needed or be beneficial for

1210
01:01:02,680 --> 01:01:05,920
Speaker 1: an organization like uh, I don't know, like a cum

1211
01:01:05,920 --> 01:01:07,640
Speaker 1: A or an n d A or anyone or just

1212
01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:11,160
Speaker 1: a state agency to put together Hey, here is our

1213
01:01:11,240 --> 01:01:14,560
Speaker 1: recommended approach to handling a CWD situation. So there's something

1214
01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:17,280
Speaker 1: standardized across all the different states. Because it doesn't seem

1215
01:01:17,360 --> 01:01:20,480
Speaker 1: like this whole cw excuse me, c w D thing

1216
01:01:20,560 --> 01:01:23,320
Speaker 1: is going to disappear anytime soon. It's more than likely

1217
01:01:23,400 --> 01:01:26,960
Speaker 1: given things that we've talked about, and given some of

1218
01:01:26,960 --> 01:01:29,600
Speaker 1: these issues with the captive deerheard transfers, it seems like

1219
01:01:29,640 --> 01:01:31,960
Speaker 1: if anything, it's probably gonna start showing up more places.

1220
01:01:32,200 --> 01:01:35,240
Speaker 1: Is there a need for some type of standardized approach

1221
01:01:35,480 --> 01:01:39,360
Speaker 1: and prescription for how to deal with this? There? Yeah,

1222
01:01:39,440 --> 01:01:40,800
Speaker 1: there is, and I agree with you that this is

1223
01:01:40,840 --> 01:01:44,840
Speaker 1: going to continue to spread given the captive industry and

1224
01:01:45,160 --> 01:01:49,800
Speaker 1: some others. So many states do have pretty similar CDVt

1225
01:01:49,920 --> 01:01:52,080
Speaker 1: plans or at least components for those plans. How they're

1226
01:01:52,080 --> 01:01:54,760
Speaker 1: gonna react and what they're gonna do. I'm one of

1227
01:01:54,800 --> 01:01:59,440
Speaker 1: the big differences states. The authority over captive servits and

1228
01:01:59,600 --> 01:02:02,640
Speaker 1: something are different by state, So some states just to

1229
01:02:02,720 --> 01:02:05,440
Speaker 1: state while ife agency has complete authority, others it's the

1230
01:02:05,480 --> 01:02:08,800
Speaker 1: Department of agg Some that shared. So because of that,

1231
01:02:09,440 --> 01:02:14,720
Speaker 1: many states CWD plans. Response plans differ slightly based on

1232
01:02:15,040 --> 01:02:18,400
Speaker 1: how much authority of the DNR has over those different components,

1233
01:02:18,960 --> 01:02:22,880
Speaker 1: but at least there is consistency across much of the board.

1234
01:02:22,960 --> 01:02:26,720
Speaker 1: On all right, let's identify where the diseases first. That's

1235
01:02:27,680 --> 01:02:31,280
Speaker 1: uh monitor around it to see is it very contained

1236
01:02:31,440 --> 01:02:33,320
Speaker 1: or is it already getting away from us to try

1237
01:02:33,360 --> 01:02:36,240
Speaker 1: to assess the situation and then figure out the best

1238
01:02:36,280 --> 01:02:39,520
Speaker 1: way to move forward. But along those lines, actually what

1239
01:02:39,640 --> 01:02:43,480
Speaker 1: we we bean qtum A just developed we now that

1240
01:02:43,560 --> 01:02:46,840
Speaker 1: it's in Michigan and spreading our q DMA members in

1241
01:02:46,920 --> 01:02:49,240
Speaker 1: our state chapters. Man, we could really use some help,

1242
01:02:49,360 --> 01:02:52,520
Speaker 1: some talking points to share with hunters as we talked

1243
01:02:52,520 --> 01:02:55,080
Speaker 1: to him about how we as hunters can help with us.

1244
01:02:55,640 --> 01:02:57,919
Speaker 1: So actually we worked with the d n R there,

1245
01:02:58,520 --> 01:03:01,400
Speaker 1: we worked with the c W the project leader from

1246
01:03:01,840 --> 01:03:04,480
Speaker 1: U s g S as a national Wallett Health Council,

1247
01:03:05,000 --> 01:03:07,840
Speaker 1: and UH put some best manage of practices together for

1248
01:03:08,280 --> 01:03:11,680
Speaker 1: hunters from a management side. You know there's information out

1249
01:03:11,720 --> 01:03:14,400
Speaker 1: there right now best management practices. You know, if you

1250
01:03:14,520 --> 01:03:16,640
Speaker 1: hunt in one of those zones, how to process me,

1251
01:03:16,800 --> 01:03:19,440
Speaker 1: what to do, but there's never been anything for somebody

1252
01:03:19,520 --> 01:03:23,240
Speaker 1: who lives or managers habitat in those zones. So we

1253
01:03:23,320 --> 01:03:26,600
Speaker 1: actually just put together a two page best management practices

1254
01:03:27,080 --> 01:03:30,560
Speaker 1: centered around the four cornerstones at QDM with HERD management,

1255
01:03:30,920 --> 01:03:34,840
Speaker 1: habitat management, hunter management, and herd monitoring. What the average

1256
01:03:34,920 --> 01:03:38,800
Speaker 1: hunter in a CDVIT outbreak zone can do UH to

1257
01:03:38,920 --> 01:03:41,400
Speaker 1: do his or her part to help improve the situation.

1258
01:03:41,640 --> 01:03:43,720
Speaker 1: And actually we have that on a website. I get

1259
01:03:43,760 --> 01:03:44,960
Speaker 1: a we can get a copy of that too you

1260
01:03:45,040 --> 01:03:47,760
Speaker 1: so you can see it that that's kind of the answer.

1261
01:03:47,840 --> 01:03:50,000
Speaker 1: The states have their way that you're going to go.

1262
01:03:50,520 --> 01:03:53,240
Speaker 1: But you know clearly that as hunters we have a

1263
01:03:53,400 --> 01:03:57,480
Speaker 1: big opportunity to help the situations like this. So it

1264
01:03:57,600 --> 01:04:00,760
Speaker 1: addresses things like should I stop playing any food plots,

1265
01:04:01,080 --> 01:04:03,480
Speaker 1: should I not plant root crops? You know, should I

1266
01:04:03,600 --> 01:04:06,400
Speaker 1: start killing all of deer when they're young? Kind of

1267
01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:08,840
Speaker 1: the whole thing. How that fits in. We gave them

1268
01:04:09,040 --> 01:04:12,040
Speaker 1: what we feel at the best strategies to help make

1269
01:04:12,080 --> 01:04:15,280
Speaker 1: things the best moving forward as it possibly can be. Well,

1270
01:04:15,480 --> 01:04:17,280
Speaker 1: that that's a great resource, it sounds like, and that's

1271
01:04:17,280 --> 01:04:21,040
Speaker 1: available at I'm assuming at qum A dot com. That's correct. Yeah,

1272
01:04:21,320 --> 01:04:23,160
Speaker 1: so let's there, and I know what folks in Michigan

1273
01:04:23,280 --> 01:04:28,000
Speaker 1: are sharing like crazy with there, uh, fellow hunters there.

1274
01:04:28,040 --> 01:04:30,120
Speaker 1: But yes, anybody who lives in a zone like that

1275
01:04:30,600 --> 01:04:33,200
Speaker 1: can go grab it at QTMA dot com and also

1276
01:04:33,320 --> 01:04:35,120
Speaker 1: encourage people, you know what, if you don't live in

1277
01:04:35,160 --> 01:04:37,200
Speaker 1: the CWG zone, you should take a look at it

1278
01:04:37,240 --> 01:04:38,960
Speaker 1: as well, just to see what these people are going

1279
01:04:39,000 --> 01:04:41,400
Speaker 1: to have to deal with, to give them a little

1280
01:04:41,440 --> 01:04:43,560
Speaker 1: more incentive to keep fighting to make sure that it

1281
01:04:43,640 --> 01:04:47,000
Speaker 1: does not get to their area, because that's certainly just

1282
01:04:47,120 --> 01:04:49,600
Speaker 1: a curse once it is in your area. Yeah, yeah,

1283
01:04:49,840 --> 01:04:52,160
Speaker 1: it's scary to see that creeping down into my neck

1284
01:04:52,200 --> 01:04:54,440
Speaker 1: of the woods here in Michigan, and uh in so

1285
01:04:54,520 --> 01:04:56,480
Speaker 1: many other places too. I know a lot of our listeners,

1286
01:04:56,520 --> 01:04:57,800
Speaker 1: I'm sure you have to deal with that in one

1287
01:04:57,800 --> 01:05:00,160
Speaker 1: way or another. Um so so kind of the final

1288
01:05:00,200 --> 01:05:01,880
Speaker 1: piece of that puzzle then, and we've alluded to it

1289
01:05:01,920 --> 01:05:06,120
Speaker 1: a couple of times, But the captive deer industry, for

1290
01:05:06,760 --> 01:05:09,440
Speaker 1: for a hunter like myself or maybe some of our

1291
01:05:09,480 --> 01:05:12,400
Speaker 1: listeners who who who aren't involved in the business of

1292
01:05:12,480 --> 01:05:15,800
Speaker 1: captive deer and who don't hunt in a captive deer facility,

1293
01:05:16,520 --> 01:05:20,520
Speaker 1: why should we care what's going on with this industry

1294
01:05:20,640 --> 01:05:23,600
Speaker 1: and how it's being regulated. Why should we care? The

1295
01:05:23,640 --> 01:05:26,480
Speaker 1: biggest thing today the average hunter today is that the

1296
01:05:26,600 --> 01:05:29,680
Speaker 1: vast majority of disease experts, you know, the people studying

1297
01:05:29,760 --> 01:05:32,720
Speaker 1: this disease across the country, say it is not moving

1298
01:05:33,080 --> 01:05:35,680
Speaker 1: or growing across the country the way that it would

1299
01:05:35,720 --> 01:05:39,000
Speaker 1: if it was just naturally spreading. That it's being moved

1300
01:05:39,400 --> 01:05:42,160
Speaker 1: much much faster and arriving in new areas at a

1301
01:05:42,280 --> 01:05:45,040
Speaker 1: much higher rate. So it all comes back to the

1302
01:05:45,240 --> 01:05:48,520
Speaker 1: you know, the most likely way that it is moving

1303
01:05:48,560 --> 01:05:52,040
Speaker 1: across the landscape right now, is by deer from inside

1304
01:05:52,080 --> 01:05:54,800
Speaker 1: of one fence being moved to to another fence. And

1305
01:05:55,120 --> 01:05:57,640
Speaker 1: so wherever you are on the whole deer an offense issue.

1306
01:05:57,640 --> 01:06:00,520
Speaker 1: Whether some people say that's unethical, some said no, that's fine.

1307
01:06:00,920 --> 01:06:02,800
Speaker 1: You know, it doesn't matter where you are on that

1308
01:06:03,280 --> 01:06:05,040
Speaker 1: and I'm not going to say where I think you

1309
01:06:05,080 --> 01:06:09,200
Speaker 1: should be. But given that we are moving this disease around,

1310
01:06:10,120 --> 01:06:13,200
Speaker 1: more so with live dear that we're moving in any

1311
01:06:13,240 --> 01:06:16,280
Speaker 1: other way, and given that this disease is by far

1312
01:06:16,440 --> 01:06:21,080
Speaker 1: one of the single biggest implications negatively impacting our future

1313
01:06:21,160 --> 01:06:25,040
Speaker 1: herds in our future hunting opportunities, that's why hunters should

1314
01:06:25,080 --> 01:06:27,480
Speaker 1: be most impacted. A buyers are most concerned. I guess

1315
01:06:27,520 --> 01:06:31,040
Speaker 1: whether we really should stop the movement of the live deer,

1316
01:06:31,400 --> 01:06:34,680
Speaker 1: you know, up among facilities like that, given that that's

1317
01:06:34,680 --> 01:06:36,640
Speaker 1: the number one way that we're spreading it. So if

1318
01:06:36,680 --> 01:06:39,560
Speaker 1: we know that the single best way to to help

1319
01:06:39,640 --> 01:06:42,960
Speaker 1: slow the spread is to stop that live transport, so

1320
01:06:43,280 --> 01:06:45,560
Speaker 1: as the hunters, I think that's where you know, we

1321
01:06:45,600 --> 01:06:47,680
Speaker 1: should recognize, Hey, here's something I can do and let

1322
01:06:47,720 --> 01:06:49,960
Speaker 1: folks know that I don't agree with this either or

1323
01:06:50,000 --> 01:06:51,840
Speaker 1: if they don't want to get involved, and they think, man,

1324
01:06:51,920 --> 01:06:55,160
Speaker 1: why should I? That's why, because that is the best

1325
01:06:55,240 --> 01:06:57,080
Speaker 1: way that we can help slow to spread down and

1326
01:06:57,360 --> 01:07:00,560
Speaker 1: keep it from coming to their neighborhood. Yeah, definitely, And

1327
01:07:00,640 --> 01:07:03,880
Speaker 1: I've talked about my own personal ethical views on this.

1328
01:07:04,080 --> 01:07:05,920
Speaker 1: I won't dive into that any further and beat that

1329
01:07:06,000 --> 01:07:08,680
Speaker 1: dead horse anymore. But but it's great to hear too.

1330
01:07:09,480 --> 01:07:13,120
Speaker 1: You know, again, the scientific and the reasons behind the

1331
01:07:13,280 --> 01:07:17,960
Speaker 1: dangers of this continuing as is from a simply dear

1332
01:07:18,040 --> 01:07:22,000
Speaker 1: herd deer management standpoint. Um. And related to that, another

1333
01:07:22,080 --> 01:07:23,919
Speaker 1: thing that popped up in the news this year were

1334
01:07:24,120 --> 01:07:28,120
Speaker 1: concerns with the transfer of CWD in relation to the

1335
01:07:28,280 --> 01:07:32,240
Speaker 1: dear yeurine industry, several states banning the use of dear

1336
01:07:32,320 --> 01:07:35,680
Speaker 1: yurine attractives. Um, what do you think is going on there, Kip?

1337
01:07:35,800 --> 01:07:37,680
Speaker 1: Is that something we're seen more often? And do you

1338
01:07:37,760 --> 01:07:40,440
Speaker 1: think it's a good idea? I think you're gonna see

1339
01:07:40,440 --> 01:07:42,200
Speaker 1: it talks about a lot more often, given now that

1340
01:07:42,320 --> 01:07:46,040
Speaker 1: both Virginia and Vermont have banned the use of of urine,

1341
01:07:46,400 --> 01:07:48,880
Speaker 1: and I know that Pennsylvania considered it, you know, I

1342
01:07:48,960 --> 01:07:52,400
Speaker 1: was actually considering right now. So that's one of those

1343
01:07:52,480 --> 01:07:55,000
Speaker 1: great areas because if you take a look at you know,

1344
01:07:55,440 --> 01:07:59,080
Speaker 1: we know that the pre CWD are spread through urine.

1345
01:07:59,200 --> 01:08:01,360
Speaker 1: Where we know that for sure, but we don't understand

1346
01:08:01,440 --> 01:08:04,840
Speaker 1: is exactly you know, like how much that the prens

1347
01:08:04,880 --> 01:08:08,000
Speaker 1: are needed to tremence further disease or you know it's

1348
01:08:08,000 --> 01:08:10,880
Speaker 1: a little bit okay and more not. That's where some

1349
01:08:10,960 --> 01:08:12,600
Speaker 1: of that gray areas. So that's where a lot of

1350
01:08:12,640 --> 01:08:14,600
Speaker 1: the argument is going on right now. So if you

1351
01:08:14,640 --> 01:08:17,360
Speaker 1: musa say, you know what to be the most conservative,

1352
01:08:18,080 --> 01:08:21,200
Speaker 1: should we not allow any urine at all? There are

1353
01:08:21,240 --> 01:08:23,760
Speaker 1: some people and some states like Virginia Vermont are there.

1354
01:08:24,240 --> 01:08:26,000
Speaker 1: There's others that say, you know what, there's not the

1355
01:08:26,040 --> 01:08:29,760
Speaker 1: evidence that that clearly shows this, So we're not gonna

1356
01:08:30,520 --> 01:08:33,640
Speaker 1: you know, stop while moving up for my take of

1357
01:08:33,720 --> 01:08:35,240
Speaker 1: it is you know what we have, we have other

1358
01:08:35,320 --> 01:08:38,439
Speaker 1: synthetic urns that people can use for attractants. And and

1359
01:08:38,560 --> 01:08:42,000
Speaker 1: I tychnically and very conservative minded, and I always fall

1360
01:08:42,120 --> 01:08:44,400
Speaker 1: to the side of the resource on this one. So

1361
01:08:44,560 --> 01:08:47,439
Speaker 1: I completely understand where the states are coming from. Um

1362
01:08:47,560 --> 01:08:49,519
Speaker 1: I think it's going to be a much bigger issue

1363
01:08:49,560 --> 01:08:51,720
Speaker 1: moving forward. Now that you have two states that have

1364
01:08:51,840 --> 01:08:54,840
Speaker 1: definitely done it, and a third that is trying. I

1365
01:08:54,880 --> 01:08:56,400
Speaker 1: think that you're going to see more states go that

1366
01:08:56,520 --> 01:08:59,200
Speaker 1: route in the very near future. It's definitely be an

1367
01:08:59,200 --> 01:09:03,280
Speaker 1: interesting thing to keep an eye on and the waves

1368
01:09:03,320 --> 01:09:07,519
Speaker 1: that could send through the hunting industry too, people, because

1369
01:09:07,520 --> 01:09:09,719
Speaker 1: I think it's a very slip result because we also

1370
01:09:09,800 --> 01:09:12,280
Speaker 1: know that that dirt has pre so you know, does

1371
01:09:12,360 --> 01:09:14,439
Speaker 1: that mean that you if you go into a state

1372
01:09:14,520 --> 01:09:16,640
Speaker 1: that has CWD, you can't bring your hunting boots back

1373
01:09:16,680 --> 01:09:19,200
Speaker 1: with you because they can't hit mud at them? You know?

1374
01:09:19,280 --> 01:09:21,439
Speaker 1: Does it mean that now that plants can take up

1375
01:09:21,720 --> 01:09:23,639
Speaker 1: the pre ends, that you can't bring in hay from

1376
01:09:23,680 --> 01:09:26,200
Speaker 1: a state to the c w D. I think that

1377
01:09:26,320 --> 01:09:29,400
Speaker 1: there's a huge can of worms that the urine is

1378
01:09:29,800 --> 01:09:33,720
Speaker 1: you know, part of with this, and it's it's a

1379
01:09:33,800 --> 01:09:36,840
Speaker 1: challenging time for the disease end of it for sure. Yeah. Yeah,

1380
01:09:36,880 --> 01:09:40,120
Speaker 1: I think it again comes down to some of these bigger,

1381
01:09:40,320 --> 01:09:43,360
Speaker 1: bigger aspects of that, like the transfer of captive deer.

1382
01:09:43,400 --> 01:09:45,240
Speaker 1: If we can try to nip some of those things

1383
01:09:45,280 --> 01:09:47,599
Speaker 1: in the butt sooner than later, maybe we don't need

1384
01:09:47,680 --> 01:09:51,080
Speaker 1: to go down this warmhole of issues with transfer through

1385
01:09:51,560 --> 01:09:54,840
Speaker 1: whether it be attractans or mud or who knows what.

1386
01:09:55,240 --> 01:10:00,360
Speaker 1: So you're absolutely right. Yeah. Um So, one other thing

1387
01:10:00,439 --> 01:10:02,240
Speaker 1: I noticed in the White Tail report that I want

1388
01:10:02,280 --> 01:10:03,880
Speaker 1: to try to touch on real quickly before we have

1389
01:10:03,960 --> 01:10:06,519
Speaker 1: to wrap things up, was the fact that and tell

1390
01:10:06,560 --> 01:10:08,000
Speaker 1: me if I got this right, Kip, but I think

1391
01:10:08,000 --> 01:10:09,880
Speaker 1: off the top of my head, I remember seeing that

1392
01:10:10,640 --> 01:10:15,240
Speaker 1: the national average faun recruitment rate is the lowest ever

1393
01:10:15,320 --> 01:10:17,439
Speaker 1: has been or lowest in the long period of time.

1394
01:10:17,920 --> 01:10:20,519
Speaker 1: Is that right, Kip? And why is that? And why

1395
01:10:20,640 --> 01:10:22,040
Speaker 1: is that something that we should be aware of and

1396
01:10:22,120 --> 01:10:26,040
Speaker 1: should pay attention to. And we monitor that very closely,

1397
01:10:26,120 --> 01:10:27,840
Speaker 1: and you know, we get the data from the state

1398
01:10:27,920 --> 01:10:31,760
Speaker 1: wilife agencies each year or every other year real quick.

1399
01:10:31,800 --> 01:10:34,320
Speaker 1: Back in two thousands, the average fond recrui rate was

1400
01:10:34,640 --> 01:10:37,080
Speaker 1: was almost one pon per doll. It was just on

1401
01:10:37,320 --> 01:10:39,920
Speaker 1: like point eight nine phons per recruited into the deer.

1402
01:10:40,640 --> 01:10:43,320
Speaker 1: Fast forward the two thousand and fifteen that had dropped

1403
01:10:43,360 --> 01:10:47,200
Speaker 1: to point five eight fons per do, so just over

1404
01:10:47,280 --> 01:10:50,519
Speaker 1: half a faon per do today, so very very different

1405
01:10:50,560 --> 01:10:54,200
Speaker 1: than why the implication those hunters is obviously for recruiting

1406
01:10:54,240 --> 01:10:57,320
Speaker 1: fewer ponds that means deer herds do not grow nearly

1407
01:10:57,400 --> 01:10:59,880
Speaker 1: as quickly as they used to. UM, so you're not

1408
01:11:00,040 --> 01:11:02,479
Speaker 1: bringing nearly as many deer into her now. If you're

1409
01:11:02,479 --> 01:11:05,160
Speaker 1: in a situation where do you have too many deer anyway,

1410
01:11:05,400 --> 01:11:07,840
Speaker 1: this is a very good thing for you because it's

1411
01:11:07,920 --> 01:11:10,320
Speaker 1: helping you out. If you're et the other end of it,

1412
01:11:10,360 --> 01:11:12,479
Speaker 1: where you know what, we're trying to grow a deer herd,

1413
01:11:12,760 --> 01:11:15,519
Speaker 1: then then this is not good at all. Um. The

1414
01:11:15,600 --> 01:11:17,920
Speaker 1: slip side is, you know about every other fon born

1415
01:11:18,120 --> 01:11:20,439
Speaker 1: is a buck fon. So if you're looking to bring

1416
01:11:20,520 --> 01:11:23,040
Speaker 1: the most bucks into a deer herd, the way to

1417
01:11:23,080 --> 01:11:25,200
Speaker 1: do it is to have the most fonds hit the

1418
01:11:25,240 --> 01:11:28,880
Speaker 1: ground in the spring and survived till fall. So there's

1419
01:11:28,880 --> 01:11:31,439
Speaker 1: a really big picture that is just the productivity rate

1420
01:11:31,520 --> 01:11:33,439
Speaker 1: of the deer herd. You know, people want to see deer,

1421
01:11:33,479 --> 01:11:36,000
Speaker 1: they want to shoot deer, and as these fond recruitment

1422
01:11:36,120 --> 01:11:38,280
Speaker 1: rates drop, that just means there's going to be fewer

1423
01:11:38,360 --> 01:11:41,639
Speaker 1: deer there to see and to shoot. And that's being

1424
01:11:41,680 --> 01:11:46,160
Speaker 1: impacted by increasing part of the populations, a loss of habitat.

1425
01:11:46,560 --> 01:11:48,720
Speaker 1: You know, there's lots of things that play into that,

1426
01:11:49,400 --> 01:11:51,640
Speaker 1: but the important part of it is for people to

1427
01:11:51,720 --> 01:11:55,120
Speaker 1: recognize that that's way fewer today than it used to

1428
01:11:55,160 --> 01:11:58,479
Speaker 1: be in the past. So the average hunter for most

1429
01:11:58,520 --> 01:12:00,920
Speaker 1: part just does not need to shoot or tenno shoot

1430
01:12:00,960 --> 01:12:03,320
Speaker 1: as many animals deer today as they could have ten

1431
01:12:03,400 --> 01:12:05,920
Speaker 1: to fifteen years ago. So or at least for everyone

1432
01:12:06,000 --> 01:12:08,800
Speaker 1: you do shoot today, the impact on that deer hurt

1433
01:12:08,960 --> 01:12:11,320
Speaker 1: is much greater than it would have been in the past.

1434
01:12:12,280 --> 01:12:16,080
Speaker 1: Is something is conducting some type of survey on your

1435
01:12:16,120 --> 01:12:19,479
Speaker 1: own individual property to try to understand what the faun

1436
01:12:19,560 --> 01:12:22,400
Speaker 1: recruitment rate on your own in your own area is.

1437
01:12:22,680 --> 01:12:24,680
Speaker 1: Figuring out how to do that a pretty important thing

1438
01:12:24,760 --> 01:12:26,400
Speaker 1: for the average deer hunter because I think you know,

1439
01:12:26,720 --> 01:12:29,240
Speaker 1: it's pretty serious deer managers. There's a lot of guys

1440
01:12:29,320 --> 01:12:31,800
Speaker 1: that do that, um, but I don't know if the

1441
01:12:32,000 --> 01:12:35,080
Speaker 1: random guy that hunts five acres but maybe it doesn't

1442
01:12:35,320 --> 01:12:36,800
Speaker 1: do a ton of food plots and stuff. I don't

1443
01:12:36,800 --> 01:12:38,679
Speaker 1: know if that type of person is actually paying attention

1444
01:12:38,720 --> 01:12:41,000
Speaker 1: to things like fun recruitment rate and how that might

1445
01:12:41,040 --> 01:12:43,360
Speaker 1: impact how many deer they kill. Would you recommend that

1446
01:12:43,960 --> 01:12:46,880
Speaker 1: more people start doing that? Oh, I absolutely would. And

1447
01:12:46,960 --> 01:12:49,479
Speaker 1: a cool thing about it is that it's free. It

1448
01:12:49,520 --> 01:12:51,160
Speaker 1: doesn't count you anything. To do, and it and it

1449
01:12:51,240 --> 01:12:53,519
Speaker 1: doesn't take any more time because you just do it

1450
01:12:53,600 --> 01:12:56,280
Speaker 1: while you're hunting. And I'll tell you that I think

1451
01:12:56,439 --> 01:12:59,439
Speaker 1: everybody should should do an observation right every time they

1452
01:12:59,479 --> 01:13:02,560
Speaker 1: go hunt, regardless if you're hunting on five acres or

1453
01:13:02,760 --> 01:13:05,360
Speaker 1: ten or a thousand or ten thousand. And you know

1454
01:13:05,520 --> 01:13:08,080
Speaker 1: I am in north central Pennsylvania. We share our property

1455
01:13:08,120 --> 01:13:10,439
Speaker 1: with lots of friends and family members. And but where

1456
01:13:10,479 --> 01:13:13,160
Speaker 1: the rules is, every day you go hunting, you keep

1457
01:13:13,200 --> 01:13:15,719
Speaker 1: tracking how many hours you hunted and how many bucks

1458
01:13:15,760 --> 01:13:18,560
Speaker 1: does and fons you saw and uh and that's it.

1459
01:13:18,680 --> 01:13:20,559
Speaker 1: So you know, it's very simple to do. It doesn't

1460
01:13:20,600 --> 01:13:23,080
Speaker 1: cost anything. I get that data from all the guys

1461
01:13:23,120 --> 01:13:25,880
Speaker 1: on our farm throughout the whole year, and that allows

1462
01:13:25,960 --> 01:13:27,880
Speaker 1: me then to just see, like at the end of

1463
01:13:27,920 --> 01:13:31,400
Speaker 1: the year, from an observation standpoint, you know, how many

1464
01:13:31,439 --> 01:13:33,479
Speaker 1: bucks did we see, how many fons, how many doughes,

1465
01:13:33,560 --> 01:13:35,720
Speaker 1: And that allows me to figure out about how many

1466
01:13:36,080 --> 01:13:40,200
Speaker 1: fons per dough we had. And then the important part

1467
01:13:40,280 --> 01:13:42,120
Speaker 1: is that I compare that to what we had last

1468
01:13:42,240 --> 01:13:44,600
Speaker 1: year and the year before and five years ago and

1469
01:13:44,680 --> 01:13:46,960
Speaker 1: ten years ago and now. So that gives me a

1470
01:13:47,120 --> 01:13:50,920
Speaker 1: really good feel for you know, what is the reproductive

1471
01:13:51,280 --> 01:13:53,840
Speaker 1: or the recruitment rate on our place? Is it going

1472
01:13:53,960 --> 01:13:56,280
Speaker 1: up or is it going down? And I use that

1473
01:13:56,479 --> 01:13:59,360
Speaker 1: every year when I set a target dough harvest, I

1474
01:13:59,520 --> 01:14:01,599
Speaker 1: use that for that a lot when we pick out,

1475
01:14:01,640 --> 01:14:03,720
Speaker 1: you know, are we gonna shoot three dolls this year

1476
01:14:03,840 --> 01:14:07,519
Speaker 1: or five or twenty so so yeah, whether you won't land,

1477
01:14:07,560 --> 01:14:10,360
Speaker 1: you have public land or whatever. I stry to encourage

1478
01:14:10,439 --> 01:14:13,479
Speaker 1: hunters to just keep tracking that. It is the perfect

1479
01:14:13,520 --> 01:14:16,080
Speaker 1: way to figure out, you know, are you likely having

1480
01:14:16,240 --> 01:14:18,880
Speaker 1: more ponds are fewer ponds uh than in the past,

1481
01:14:19,240 --> 01:14:21,400
Speaker 1: and then allow you to make good choices as a

1482
01:14:21,479 --> 01:14:24,600
Speaker 1: hunter to to shoot the right number of dolls. I

1483
01:14:24,720 --> 01:14:27,040
Speaker 1: think a big takeaway from me and hopefully for a

1484
01:14:27,120 --> 01:14:29,160
Speaker 1: lot of people listening. You know, just over the last

1485
01:14:29,200 --> 01:14:32,519
Speaker 1: couple of years, as we've seen things changing with you know,

1486
01:14:32,680 --> 01:14:35,160
Speaker 1: our herds being slightly less productive, not being able to

1487
01:14:35,200 --> 01:14:37,920
Speaker 1: reproduce this quickly and recruit those fonds up into the

1488
01:14:37,960 --> 01:14:42,120
Speaker 1: adult population, with habitat loss in live places, with large

1489
01:14:42,200 --> 01:14:44,519
Speaker 1: disease issues in some areas. As all these different things

1490
01:14:44,560 --> 01:14:47,720
Speaker 1: are happening, it's seeming more and more often that the

1491
01:14:48,040 --> 01:14:51,240
Speaker 1: one size fits all strategy for hunters is no longer

1492
01:14:51,360 --> 01:14:54,360
Speaker 1: going to work, and I think the responsibility is going

1493
01:14:54,439 --> 01:14:57,559
Speaker 1: to have to continue falling on the individual hunters and managers.

1494
01:14:57,640 --> 01:14:59,960
Speaker 1: We more and more need to take what our state age.

1495
01:15:00,120 --> 01:15:02,360
Speaker 1: She's tell us, use that as a guideline, of course,

1496
01:15:02,400 --> 01:15:04,160
Speaker 1: but then say, okay, what does that mean on my

1497
01:15:04,240 --> 01:15:08,479
Speaker 1: individual property, and start making more more informed decisions. I guess,

1498
01:15:08,520 --> 01:15:11,800
Speaker 1: based on what we're seeing on the ground, Um, exactly,

1499
01:15:12,240 --> 01:15:15,240
Speaker 1: that is exactly right. And I hope that that's something

1500
01:15:15,400 --> 01:15:17,680
Speaker 1: that that I can do a better job of and

1501
01:15:17,720 --> 01:15:19,439
Speaker 1: that everyone can try to try to learn a little

1502
01:15:19,439 --> 01:15:20,639
Speaker 1: bit more. I think a lot of it comes down

1503
01:15:20,640 --> 01:15:22,720
Speaker 1: to education, right, trying to fair Okay, how do I

1504
01:15:22,920 --> 01:15:24,920
Speaker 1: figure out these things? But I think once you pass

1505
01:15:25,120 --> 01:15:27,240
Speaker 1: that for those first couple of steps, it's in an

1506
01:15:27,320 --> 01:15:29,519
Speaker 1: easy habit to fall into and then um, you know,

1507
01:15:29,560 --> 01:15:31,680
Speaker 1: allows you to make better decisions as a hunter. No one,

1508
01:15:31,720 --> 01:15:33,479
Speaker 1: no one's gonna pull the trigger, but you, your your

1509
01:15:33,520 --> 01:15:36,840
Speaker 1: state agency isn't pulling the trigger. Um, your neighbor isn't

1510
01:15:36,880 --> 01:15:39,320
Speaker 1: pulling the trigger for you. That that's on you, um,

1511
01:15:39,439 --> 01:15:41,880
Speaker 1: and it's on me and all of us. So I think, um,

1512
01:15:42,439 --> 01:15:44,400
Speaker 1: I think maybe that that's a big message I hope

1513
01:15:44,479 --> 01:15:46,280
Speaker 1: we can all take from this is that there's a

1514
01:15:46,320 --> 01:15:48,040
Speaker 1: lot of things going on today and we need to

1515
01:15:48,080 --> 01:15:51,720
Speaker 1: take responsibility for as much as we can. That's right.

1516
01:15:51,760 --> 01:15:54,519
Speaker 1: I've ended the last few seasons with unused do tags

1517
01:15:54,520 --> 01:15:57,160
Speaker 1: in my pocket that from our place, and I certainly

1518
01:15:57,200 --> 01:15:59,040
Speaker 1: couldn't have used and hand the opportunity to use, but

1519
01:15:59,400 --> 01:16:02,000
Speaker 1: just chow with not to because of the situation we

1520
01:16:02,080 --> 01:16:05,400
Speaker 1: were in where five to ten years ago, uh, we

1521
01:16:05,560 --> 01:16:08,360
Speaker 1: fought tooth and nail to the last day to fill

1522
01:16:08,520 --> 01:16:10,800
Speaker 1: every day tag we had from everybody that hunted our

1523
01:16:10,840 --> 01:16:13,240
Speaker 1: place just to make sure that we were doing right

1524
01:16:13,320 --> 01:16:15,880
Speaker 1: by deer. And it's a very different situation for us today.

1525
01:16:15,960 --> 01:16:18,559
Speaker 1: And even though I could still shoot as many those

1526
01:16:18,600 --> 01:16:20,680
Speaker 1: on our farm as I could have five and ten

1527
01:16:20,760 --> 01:16:24,400
Speaker 1: years ago, I shoot far less because of the situation

1528
01:16:24,439 --> 01:16:28,759
Speaker 1: we're in. Yeah, So this is this has been great stuff.

1529
01:16:28,920 --> 01:16:31,720
Speaker 1: And there's about twenty tho other things that like to

1530
01:16:31,760 --> 01:16:34,000
Speaker 1: talk to you about, but I know we don't have time. Um,

1531
01:16:34,160 --> 01:16:36,920
Speaker 1: But for people who want to learn more about some

1532
01:16:36,960 --> 01:16:39,080
Speaker 1: of these different resources we've talked about, or the white

1533
01:16:39,120 --> 01:16:42,160
Speaker 1: Tail report that was recently um, you know put out there,

1534
01:16:42,200 --> 01:16:44,519
Speaker 1: where can they go to get that kind of information, Kip,

1535
01:16:45,240 --> 01:16:47,480
Speaker 1: So they can go right to our website at QDMA

1536
01:16:47,640 --> 01:16:50,599
Speaker 1: dot com. Um, we do these annual wait till reports

1537
01:16:50,840 --> 01:16:53,679
Speaker 1: each year. They're all on there. They're all free downloads

1538
01:16:53,720 --> 01:16:56,080
Speaker 1: for folks, so in addition to all the other cool

1539
01:16:56,120 --> 01:16:58,240
Speaker 1: deer stuff they can grab. But yeah, just go reach

1540
01:16:58,240 --> 01:17:01,320
Speaker 1: to QDMA dot com and get what they need. Definitely,

1541
01:17:01,479 --> 01:17:04,120
Speaker 1: I highly highly recommend anyone listening as well, if if

1542
01:17:04,160 --> 01:17:07,519
Speaker 1: you aren't a member all the Quality Deer Management Association yet,

1543
01:17:08,160 --> 01:17:10,640
Speaker 1: even if you're not interested in targeting mature boxer or

1544
01:17:10,680 --> 01:17:12,439
Speaker 1: doing any of these larger things, if if you want

1545
01:17:12,439 --> 01:17:15,720
Speaker 1: to do nothing but learn more, joining the cut May

1546
01:17:15,800 --> 01:17:17,479
Speaker 1: dot com is a great place to start. They're just

1547
01:17:17,920 --> 01:17:21,880
Speaker 1: full of tremendous resources, their magazine, their website. Uh, people

1548
01:17:21,960 --> 01:17:25,160
Speaker 1: like Kip just there's so many opportunities to learn more

1549
01:17:25,200 --> 01:17:28,040
Speaker 1: about deer and deer hunting and how to be a

1550
01:17:28,120 --> 01:17:30,880
Speaker 1: more responsible deer hunter and manager in a world where

1551
01:17:30,880 --> 01:17:33,840
Speaker 1: I think that's that's more new than ever. So please

1552
01:17:33,880 --> 01:17:36,160
Speaker 1: join the Kuti May if you haven't already. And Kip,

1553
01:17:36,320 --> 01:17:38,559
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you so much for your time here today.

1554
01:17:38,600 --> 01:17:40,920
Speaker 1: This is this has been fascinating and I appreciate you

1555
01:17:40,960 --> 01:17:43,360
Speaker 1: sharing with us. All right, Thank you, Mark, always good

1556
01:17:43,360 --> 01:17:45,320
Speaker 1: to talk with you. You have a good day. Thanks

1557
01:17:45,320 --> 01:17:48,640
Speaker 1: a lot you too. All right, Well, as I expected,

1558
01:17:48,720 --> 01:17:51,240
Speaker 1: that was a great conversation and I certainly learned a

1559
01:17:51,280 --> 01:17:54,240
Speaker 1: lot and hope you did too. Before we wrap things up, though,

1560
01:17:54,479 --> 01:17:56,040
Speaker 1: we do need to give a big thank you to

1561
01:17:56,120 --> 01:17:58,639
Speaker 1: our partners who helped keep this podcast on the air.

1562
01:17:58,880 --> 01:18:02,479
Speaker 1: So thank you to say could Gear, Trophy, Ridge Bear Archery,

1563
01:18:02,600 --> 01:18:07,000
Speaker 1: Redneck Blinds, huntera maps Ozonics, Lacrosse Boots, and the White

1564
01:18:07,040 --> 01:18:11,080
Speaker 1: Tailed Institute of North America. And that said, most importantly,

1565
01:18:11,479 --> 01:18:13,760
Speaker 1: thank you to everyone out there tuning in today. We

1566
01:18:13,960 --> 01:18:16,320
Speaker 1: really appreciate it. I hope you found this chat with

1567
01:18:16,439 --> 01:18:19,960
Speaker 1: kept informative and empowering as we discussed more and more

1568
01:18:20,000 --> 01:18:22,519
Speaker 1: of the future of white tails is on our shoulders,

1569
01:18:22,760 --> 01:18:27,240
Speaker 1: so let's take that responsibility seriously. Until next time, stay

1570
01:18:27,880 --> 01:18:29,120
Speaker 1: Wired to Hunt,