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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to Cool People Did Cool Stuff You Were?

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Speaker 2: A podcast that is part four of a six part

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Speaker 2: or so. If you are just tuning in for part four,

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Speaker 2: I don't understand your brain. I'm your host, Margaret Kiljoy,

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Speaker 2: and my guest today and last week and next week

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Speaker 2: is Mia.

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Speaker 3: Walm, the Ons in Future podcast guest.

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Speaker 2: Exactly today we're talking about. Oh wait, I almost forgot

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Speaker 2: the rest of the introductions. The thing that Sophie always

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Speaker 2: says it, Margaret, if you don't write it down in

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Speaker 2: your scripture, nen forget. And I'm always like, I'm not

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Speaker 2: going to forget.

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Speaker 3: Did that happen?

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Speaker 2: I get? No, I actually scripted this entire exchange. That's

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Speaker 2: not true the host. No, I'm the host. The producer

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Speaker 2: is Sophie Kai. Sophie allegedly, Hi, I wonder if people

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Speaker 2: can tell I've had more sugar than usual today.

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Speaker 1: What was your snack during the break? Oh?

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Speaker 2: My sactuary in the break was terrible. It was literally

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Speaker 2: a couple of basil leaves off of a hydroponic basil

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Speaker 2: plant that I keep in my kitchen. It doesn't have

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Speaker 2: any caloric value. I just couldn't find any other snacks.

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Speaker 2: I love basil.

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Speaker 1: I was like, I was like, I support that, I

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Speaker 1: really do. I was like, should I do that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, I got one of the little I'm not

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Speaker 2: going to say the brand because they're not paying me,

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Speaker 2: but they want me to I will. I like their stuff.

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Speaker 2: I got one of those little hydroponic kitchen ones that

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Speaker 2: you just like put the little pod in and you

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Speaker 2: can grow different herbs. Yeah. It works great. I've used it.

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Speaker 2: It's like the fourth time I've grown plants in it.

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Speaker 1: You're like really influencing me.

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Speaker 2: It's a being able to just like reach over and

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Speaker 2: like grab a couple of leaves of basil and put

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Speaker 2: it on whatever I'm making. It even turns the like

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Speaker 2: if you're someone who only eats ramen for dinner, you

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Speaker 2: can spice it up with the new Margaret's not going

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Speaker 2: to say the name of the brand unless they pay her.

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Speaker 2: Mm hm, So you know, not kind of like it.

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Speaker 2: But what I don't like is almost everything we're going

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Speaker 2: to talk about today.

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Speaker 1: Who's who's our sound engineer and who wrote our theme song?

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Speaker 2: You're trying to say I didn't finish my intro Daniel

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Speaker 2: as our audio engineer. I want to say high Daniel

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Speaker 2: high Danel. Oh my god, we didn't say high Danel

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Speaker 2: last time. Good okay, all right, and our themes music

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Speaker 2: does to.

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Speaker 4: Limit your sugar and record days of you already live

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Speaker 4: it limit you know your your.

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Speaker 2: Carbonation intake no carbonation? Yeah no, and make sure I

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Speaker 2: think it's good. Is a whole new world. It's I

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Speaker 2: literally have my feed up for the first time ever.

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Speaker 2: Your position is completely different.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm just gonna go for it. It's a whole

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Speaker 2: new Margaret.

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Speaker 1: You're doing great.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not Magpie. It's bad Pie.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 2: Wow goes push right through that one. So I gotta go. Actually, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I understand. I'll just podcast two room.

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Speaker 3: Who was that?

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, I'll tell you who it was, but

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Speaker 2: it would get me in trouble again because it wasn't Magpie.

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Speaker 2: You said that. So where we last left our anti heroes,

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Speaker 2: they had had a revolution that was like the method

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Speaker 2: of the revolution was pretty cool. It didn't put power

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Speaker 2: into the hands of the Soviets quite far enough for

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Speaker 2: a lot of people's minds, and it started the counter revolution.

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Speaker 2: It started being like we're just the state now. Then

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Speaker 2: come November nineteen seventeen, you have the October Revolution, and

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Speaker 2: the fun thing to do is read eight different accounts

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Speaker 2: where some of them call it a coup, and some

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Speaker 2: people were like, it wasn't a coup, and then other

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Speaker 2: people were like, it was a coup, but it was fine.

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Speaker 2: It's kind of a coup. This particular revolution was not

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Speaker 2: like a huge popular uprising as much as it was

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Speaker 2: professional soldiers the guns, storming the halls of power, and

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Speaker 2: that's usually what gets called a coup, and a lot

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Speaker 2: of those people doing the coup, the professional soldiers with

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Speaker 2: guns were the anarchists. And it wouldn't have necessarily been

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Speaker 2: a bad idea if the Bolsheviks that weren't up to

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Speaker 2: no good, because this is not overthrowing the revolutionary government.

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Speaker 2: This is throwing one half of the revolutionary government that

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Speaker 2: is more democratic, overthrowing the less democratic one and whatever.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and Kresky's gotten like like Kerensky's the person who's

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Speaker 3: in charge of the visional Government's gotten like increasingly like

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Speaker 3: shitty in the in the sort of period after this,

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Speaker 3: so it's like, it's not it's not the most indefensible

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Speaker 3: idea in theory anyone's ever had, But yeah, if it

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Speaker 3: hadn't been the Bolsheviks. You know, like if it had

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Speaker 3: literally been about power to the Soviets, I'm not sure

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Speaker 3: I would have been anti. Yeah, yeah, great revolution. Ten

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Speaker 3: out of ten. We did it, folks. We saved human history.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, time machine. So the most powerful Soviet in the

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Speaker 2: country was the Petrograd Soviet, Petrograd being with it called

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Speaker 2: Saint Petersburg, which went Saint Petersburg, Petrograd, Leningrad, Saint Petersburg.

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Speaker 2: That's the order, I think, But I'm just going to

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Speaker 2: keep calling Saint Petersburg throughout the whole thing for my

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Speaker 2: own brain. And the Bolsheviks had recently engineered to become

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Speaker 2: a majority power within that Soviet, and this Soviet voted

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Speaker 2: to overthrow the provisional government. So they did. The anarchists,

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Speaker 2: especially sailors out of the naval base of Kronstadt, were

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Speaker 2: the shock troops. A coalition of pro Soviet forces took

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Speaker 2: over the Winter Palace where the provisional government was run

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Speaker 2: out of, under the banner of all power to the Soviets.

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Speaker 2: This included Bolsheviks, anarchists, and left s rs. This was

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Speaker 2: organized by the Military Revolutionary Council. Four of the sixty

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Speaker 2: six people on that Council Anarchists. One historian I read

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Speaker 2: was basically like, whoever had tried to well, it was

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Speaker 2: a direct quote, whoever had tried to overthrow the provision

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Speaker 2: Oh wait, no, it isn't a direct Quote's as weak

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Speaker 2: as fuck. It's definitely me paraphrasing sugar time. Okay, So

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Speaker 2: one historian was like, you know, whoever tried to overthrow

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Speaker 2: the provisional government would have succeeded. That shit was weak

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Speaker 2: as fuck. If zaras had been organized, they could have

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Speaker 2: fucking overthrown the provisional government. And anyone could vote Mia,

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Speaker 2: you and I and Sophie as long as we had

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Speaker 2: Daniel and non women's help, could probably have overthrown the

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Speaker 2: provisional government of Revolutionary Russia.

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Speaker 3: I love our odds. They seem really good.

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Speaker 2: You know, better than any other particular government I've tried

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Speaker 2: to overthrow. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and now I'm just like really confident I could

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Speaker 4: overthrow a government.

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Speaker 2: I believe in you. Yeah, That's that's why I'm here

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Speaker 2: at cool Zone media like, I, oh yeah, do you

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Speaker 2: all still sell always be Cooen shirts?

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Speaker 5: I don't know.

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Speaker 4: Robert's the one I'm supposed to be in charge of

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Speaker 4: doing merch stuff, and uh, that's all I'll say about that.

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Speaker 2: All right, Well, if Robert's specialty is that shirt, my

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Speaker 2: specialty is unsourced anecdotes, where at least I flagged that

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Speaker 2: is an unsourced anecdote. One time, like fifteen years ago,

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Speaker 2: I was hanging out with his older anarchist friend of

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Speaker 2: mine who had spent a lot of time in Soviet

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Speaker 2: influenced countries, like right after the fall of the Soviet Union,

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Speaker 2: and spent a lot of time in Bulgaria in particular,

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Speaker 2: And he was the one who first told me the

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Speaker 2: story of the Russian Revolution, and there was a part

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Speaker 2: I remember vividly of him telling me this. During the

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Speaker 2: October Revolution, they're having all these meetings between all the

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Speaker 2: various factions. It wasn't necessarily just a Bolshevik coup, right,

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Speaker 2: It was all of these different groups that got together

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Speaker 2: that were all power of the Soviets, and so they

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Speaker 2: had these meetings to figure out how they were going

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Speaker 2: to run things and share power. And the anarchists were like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: we're with you, but we like hate power. So we're

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Speaker 2: just going to stand guard outside to make sure no

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Speaker 2: counter revolutionary is common, you know, mess with you and

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Speaker 2: It was during one of those meetings when the Bolsheviks

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Speaker 2: sort of did their internal coup within the Soviets and

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Speaker 2: took power over all the Soviets, which they always intended

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Speaker 2: to disenfranchise. So that was the lesson I learned from that.

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Speaker 2: Maybe don't sit that meeting out. Yeah, but again I

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Speaker 2: don't have a source on that, besides my friend told

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Speaker 2: me years ago, and he learned it from people have

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Speaker 2: been organizing illegally as anarchists for generations in the USSR.

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Speaker 2: So it's kind of an oral history at this point.

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Speaker 2: And I want to talk about the leader of the

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Speaker 2: anarchist forces that storm the Winter Palace because he's kind

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Speaker 2: of fun. His name was anatotly Jeleeshmikoff. Prior to the

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Speaker 2: October Revolution in nineteen seventeen, the anarchists were doing what

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Speaker 2: anarchists do. Like in the middle of nineteen seventeen, you know,

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Speaker 2: they squatted a rich person's villa in Saint Petersburg and

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Speaker 2: turned it into a social center. I know, and I

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Speaker 2: don't think it was abandoned. I think they expropriated this

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Speaker 2: villa in the middle of Saint Petersburg.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and.

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Speaker 2: It was complete with a Baker's union and offering childcare

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Speaker 2: to the neighborhood. Oh my god, nothing has ever changed,

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Speaker 2: I know, and sometimes we're great. I love this for us.

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Speaker 2: And they did this despite that both the provisional government

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Speaker 2: and the Petrograd Soviet did not want them doing this

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Speaker 2: because they didn't want them expropriating this rich person's villa yet, right,

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Speaker 2: because they were like going too far, too fast for

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Speaker 2: his participation in that. When they so the it was

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Speaker 2: raided by the Kerensky right Anatolely Juleshnikov was arrested by

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Speaker 2: the provisional government and was sentenced to fourteen years for

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Speaker 2: having stolen a villa from a rich person during an

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Speaker 2: anti capitalist revolution.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, very great, great revolutionary government. You got their incredible job.

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Speaker 3: That's ours, Like, yeah, doing great, honey. Fortunately, one thing

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Speaker 3: anarchists were really good at back then was escaping Russian prison.

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Speaker 3: So he escaped Russian prison and he cooperated with the

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Speaker 3: Bolsheviks for the October Revolution. Slightly less incredible, I know,

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Speaker 3: but I see why he did it. But I'm going

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Speaker 3: to skip ahead and talk a little bit more about

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Speaker 3: him because he's interesting. He's going to fight alongside the

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Speaker 3: Bolsheviks and the Red Army time and time again because

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Speaker 3: he believed an anarchist revolution. Spoiler alert, there's going to

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Speaker 3: be a civil war, and once it breaks out, Leon Trotsky,

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Speaker 3: the now Bolshevik, brings back a bunch of Czarist officers

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Speaker 3: and Czarist methods of running an army. We'll talk more

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Speaker 3: about that later, like corporal punishment and officers getting better

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Speaker 3: treatment than everyone else. And so anarchists like Anatole are

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Speaker 3: going to revolt within the Red Army. But later he's

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Speaker 3: going to rejoin the Red Army to defeat the White Army.

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Speaker 3: The man, I'm really okay, well whatever, And he gets

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Speaker 3: killed in action on July twenty sixth, nineteen nineteen, and

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Speaker 3: the Bolsheviks tried to claim him. They were like, well,

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Speaker 3: he's in a Red Army. He's like, our guy is a Bolshevik.

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Speaker 3: He's a hero, he's a war hero. Everyone loves him,

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Speaker 3: patriot loves Russia. You know, I'm pretty sure that he

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Speaker 3: never became a Bolshevik. The reason is is the following

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Speaker 3: quote from him. Whatever may happen to me and whatever

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Speaker 3: they say of me, know well that I am an

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Speaker 3: anarchist that I fight as one, and whatever my fate

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Speaker 3: I will die an anarchist, you know, a incredibly anarchist line.

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Speaker 3: B This is like one of the other things that

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Speaker 3: I remember, like my first reading of the Russian Revolution.

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Speaker 3: It's like one of the issues the anarchists have is

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Speaker 3: that they actually believe in the revolution, and so all

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Speaker 3: of the most prominent anarchists go fight, and so they

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Speaker 3: all end up dying because they went to go fight

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Speaker 3: in the revolution, and all the Bolshevik leaders were like, Okay,

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Speaker 3: I'm going to sit here in this committee yep, and

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Speaker 3: I am never going here like in a friend of

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Speaker 3: an army, and so they lived through it. I remember

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Speaker 3: when I first became an anarchist to my roommate in college.

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Speaker 3: I was like analyzing the situation and was like, you

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Speaker 3: all are just the political berserkers for every other group,

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Speaker 3: and I was like, no, we're not. And then I

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Speaker 3: started reading in history for my job and old college roommate,

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Speaker 3: you're right, and we shouldn't be. But we take more

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Speaker 3: risks than a lot of people. And we also specifically

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Speaker 3: don't seek like glory and fame with our names, so

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Speaker 3: we're often forgotten about and I don't know, I mean,

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Speaker 3: like that's the whole tragedy of this particular revolution, not

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Speaker 3: how we were treated specifically, but like, okay, but I'm

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Speaker 3: gonna to finish out anatoly. He wrote poetry too, and

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Speaker 3: honestly pretty good poetry. I read a lot of these

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Speaker 3: old revolutionist poets and or revolutionaries who are also writing

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Speaker 3: some poetry, and like, it's pretty mid overall, right. But

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Speaker 3: he wrote a poem in prison. Here's an excerpt that

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Speaker 3: I really like Falcon Falcon, when you chance to fly

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Speaker 3: into the limitless and mountainous space, don't forget to give

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Speaker 3: the clouds my greetings, tell all that I shall break

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Speaker 3: my chains, that my life in jail is only a

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Speaker 3: twilight nap, only a spectral daydream. That's really, I don't know,

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Speaker 3: it's courteous.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And he wrote that while he was imprisoned by

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Speaker 2: this provisional government revolutionary government.

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Speaker 3: You know, ah love a provisional government. Yeah, nothing effort

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Speaker 3: has gone wrong.

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Speaker 2: No, No, I mean, you know, it's like, I get

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Speaker 2: why they tried to have a provisional government in the meantime.

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Speaker 2: I think that the Soviets were always the better plan.

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Speaker 2: But then again, you know how things go. Anyway back

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Speaker 2: to nineteen seventeen, ever, since the February Revolution, people have

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Speaker 2: been promised a Constituent Assembly, which would be the democratic

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Speaker 2: government the republic that they were promised, And the Bolsheviks

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Speaker 2: are initially all about this even after the October Revolution,

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Speaker 2: at least as best as I can tell, because like,

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Speaker 2: they don't care about bottom up power. They care about power,

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Speaker 2: and they're like, all right, whatever, you know. But they

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Speaker 2: had a problem with the Constituent Assembly, which is that

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Speaker 2: forty million people voted and less than ten million of

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Speaker 2: them voted Bolshevik. Yeah, that's not enough Bolshevik. The SRS

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Speaker 2: swept that election and more than sixty percent of people

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Speaker 2: voted in it. Russia clearly wanted the SRS. That said,

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Speaker 2: the Bolsheviks did do the best among military on the

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Speaker 2: Western Front, because the Bolsheviks were the ones promising to

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Speaker 2: bring them home and among the urban proletariat, which is

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Speaker 2: their main base. And so they form a Constituent Assembly

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Speaker 2: and it went really well, and Russia became a republic.

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Speaker 2: And wait, no, here is the worst thing that anarchists

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Speaker 2: have ever done history that I can find. Do you

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Speaker 2: know what's gonna do you know the do you know

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Speaker 2: this part?

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Speaker 3: I actually am not sure what you're talking for.

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Speaker 2: So, the Constituent Assembly is elected and they meet in

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Speaker 2: January nineteen eighteen, and the Bolsheviks and the anarchists together

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Speaker 2: broke it up with force. Oh, I didn't know the

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Speaker 2: anarchists were involved in that. Yeah, the Bolshevik broke up

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Speaker 2: the Constituent Assembly because they had lost the election and

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Speaker 2: had less than twenty five percent of the seats, you know.

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Speaker 2: And the anarchists did it because they believed all power

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Speaker 2: to the Soviets. They were trying to have a Soviet

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Speaker 2: Revolution in which all power was held by decentralized people,

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Speaker 2: you know, by these decentralized decision making bodies. But in

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Speaker 2: doing so, they sided with the Bolsheviks in this process,

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Speaker 2: and this proved a mistake with deadly consequences for the anarchists.

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Speaker 2: Pretty much right away, the Bolsheviks did a couple things

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Speaker 2: to show where they were going. They turned the executive

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Speaker 2: committee of the Pan Russian Congress of Soviets into a

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Speaker 2: body that stood as a government over the other Soviets.

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Speaker 2: Prior to that, basically this like Pan Russian Congress of Soviets,

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Speaker 2: the like larger federation right or Congress, had the executive

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Speaker 2: body of it had kind of just been the executive

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Speaker 2: body of like internal affairs, like hey, when are we

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Speaker 2: meeting next and stuff like that. Right, Yeah, So then

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Speaker 2: they turned it into a government, and there's a pyramid

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Speaker 2: of power. This committee was delegates elected by delegates, elected

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Speaker 2: by delegates, so it is even less accountable than the

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Speaker 2: Constituent Assembly that they'd just broken up. Soon they formed

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Speaker 2: the Council of People's Commissars with Lenin as the chairman.

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Speaker 2: And then they didn't do anything that they promised. This

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Speaker 2: is gonna be so shocking to you. They didn't do

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Speaker 2: anything they promised. They're supposed to distribute land to the toilers,

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Speaker 2: you know, the factories and the land to the toilers, right, Instead,

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Speaker 2: they nationalized it, so farmers became essentially wage workers at

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Speaker 2: state run farms, rather than what everyone had been fighting for,

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Speaker 2: which was distributing land to the peasants so that they

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Speaker 2: could work the land. Yeah, factory committees, for a very

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Speaker 2: brief period, managed to control industry, you know, like Soviets,

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Speaker 2: like the power to the Soviets that people have been fighting.

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Speaker 2: Lenin distrusted them. By January nineteen nineteen, Lenin opposed them.

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Speaker 2: He said that the revolution required quote precisely in the

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Speaker 2: interests of socialism, that the masses unquestionably obey the single

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Speaker 2: will of the leaders of the labor process.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. That's one of my favorite Lenin quotes to pull

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Speaker 3: out because it's it makes it clear, like just so

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Speaker 3: incredibly clear what the actual stakes of like not just

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Speaker 3: this revolution, but like every subsequent revolution that's going to

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Speaker 3: happen in like you know, like the Hungarian Revolution, a

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Speaker 3: lot of the Spanish Revolution, there's a lot of the

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Speaker 3: revolutions in nineteen sixty eight. It's like the stakes are

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Speaker 3: like is is are you the worker going to have

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Speaker 3: to unquestionably submit to the will of one guy?

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Speaker 5: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Or are you going to democratically manage your affairs? And

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Speaker 3: this is one of these interesting things where both Lenin

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Speaker 3: and the capitalists are in complete agreement with this. This is

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Speaker 3: something that and this is something about World War two, right,

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Speaker 3: is that in World War two, the US, the Nazis,

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Speaker 3: and the Soviets are all in complete agreements that you

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Speaker 3: the worker should unquestionably submit yourself to the will of

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Speaker 3: the single individual in the factory. All of them completely

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Speaker 3: agree about this. They're all taking planning, like all of

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Speaker 3: their planning stuff they're all taking this from each other.

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Speaker 3: It's like, this is the moment where Lenin is like

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Speaker 3: stops lying basically like where he stops like it's really

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Speaker 3: it's like the greatest mask off moment in history, and

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Speaker 3: no one remembers it. It's so wild. It's like he

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Speaker 3: just he just gave a villain bottle lock and everyone's

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Speaker 3: just I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I've just been baffled by this for many years. No

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Speaker 2: it I mean, this is the betrayal of the revolution.

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Speaker 2: The revolution was about, and that's why, in retrospect the

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Speaker 2: Constituent Assembly offered more power to workers. It still wasn't good.

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Speaker 2: I understand why people fought for the Soviets, you know,

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Speaker 2: but Lenin Shure didn't like them. He also specifically referred

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Speaker 2: to workers control as petty bourgeoisie and a a narcos

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Speaker 2: syndiclus deviation. It's so funny that he think it's like

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Speaker 2: because like Lenin Lenin's entire theory is it a class

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Speaker 2: at petit bourgeois revolutionaries must lead the social revolution, and

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Speaker 2: then when actual workers do something, he's like, this is

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Speaker 2: actually petit bourgeois. It's like, what what class do you

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Speaker 2: belong to? Vlendim your lenin, like what are.

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Speaker 3: We doing here?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, totally. It's like how to hang out in

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Speaker 2: the weeds for a minute. It's like Marx would always

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Speaker 2: call Prudon like bourgeois. Marx was bourgeois and prud was

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Speaker 2: was proletarian like by like actual like birth and class

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Speaker 2: and jobs they worked. Like, Yeah, prud On the first

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Speaker 2: Western anarchist or whatever. I don't have very high good

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Speaker 2: feelings about. If you want to know he sucks. Talk

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00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:48,000
Speaker 2: shit about prud On, you can listen to Paris Commune episode.

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Speaker 2: But he sure taught himself to read by being a printer.

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Speaker 2: The working class job, yea, and Marx had a pH

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Speaker 2: d and lived off the largest of Angles, a factory owner.

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Speaker 2: So like, you know, yeah, but opinions about Irish women

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Speaker 2: that I don't approve of anyway, I'll just keep vaguely

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Speaker 2: mentioning that every like ten episodes until I start a

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Speaker 2: podcast about bad people.

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Speaker 1: That's a terrible idea.

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Speaker 2: Bad people did bad stuff.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, would never sell, never couldn't get past legal No.

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Speaker 2: Yeah that's true, get sued by Angles as a state.

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Speaker 2: It's actually just a podcast about Angles anyway. Well, you

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Speaker 2: know who else loved. All power to the Soviets, our sponsor,

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Speaker 2: the seven hundred Soviets of Russia, who want you to

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Speaker 2: buy goods from the small farmers who they empower. Here

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Speaker 2: are the ads for.

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Speaker 5: Them, and we're back.

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Speaker 3: So.

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Speaker 2: The other thing the Bolsheviks did right away, even before

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Speaker 2: busting up the Constituent Assembly, was they formed the Cheka,

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Speaker 2: a secret police group. And it's called the like pre

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Speaker 2: KGB and it's like roughly true, but the Czecha is

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Speaker 2: more than a secret police force. They're also just like

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Speaker 2: the the storm troopers. They're the like, yeah, behind the soldiers,

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Speaker 2: when the soldiers go into war, there's going to be

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Speaker 2: cheko with machine guns to kill everyone who runs away

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Speaker 2: from the war.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: That's like, that's these guys. Checha stands for the All

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Speaker 2: Russian Emergency Commission from Combating counter Revolution and Sabotage only

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Speaker 2: you know the Russian abbreviation of it. It was created

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Speaker 2: in large part to combat other leftist organizations that wanted

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Speaker 2: to take power share power with them. Its leader was

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Speaker 2: this guy named Dirzinski, who's a Polish aristocrat who became

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Speaker 2: a Bolshevik and who was nicknamed Iron Phoenix. Sorry that

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Speaker 2: would have been cooler Iron Felix. Actually, Iron Felix is

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Speaker 2: kind of cooler than Iron Fietix.

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Speaker 3: Yes, that's not bad.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Iron Phoenix sounds like a second rate Marvel character.

401
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Speaker 2: Iron Felix is a third rate Marvel character and therefore

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Speaker 2: one of the weird ones who's bisexual and like kind

403
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Speaker 2: of cool. The check has started their repression of the

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Speaker 2: Left even before they just disbanded the Constituent Assembly. They

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Speaker 2: arrested a bunch of srs, including an electric delegate to

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Speaker 2: the Constituent Assembly, in December nineteen seventeen. By January, Bolsheviks

407
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Speaker 2: are doing this like food requisitioning thing where they go

408
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Speaker 2: around demand food from the peasants, and then in March

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Speaker 2: nineteen eighteen they formally sign a peace treaty with Germany.

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Speaker 2: It is not inherently bad. I'm just describing what happens

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Speaker 2: in history. And there's a whole bunch more of this,

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Speaker 2: And since it's part of World War One, there is

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Speaker 2: so much you can read about this if you want.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you can. You can bury yourself in yeah, in

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Speaker 3: books written about this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you could take a bath in books of this.

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Speaker 2: Just pages like hanging out like instead of hanging out

418
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Speaker 2: with money, you know, like you're supposed to for photos.

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Speaker 2: It should just be pictures of god World War One

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Speaker 2: history books about Russia. Anyway, Russia was like, we want

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Speaker 2: to get out of this war, and Germany was like

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Speaker 2: all right, fine, but then we get all the Baltic states,

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Speaker 2: Poland in Ukraine, and Russia was like, wait, really, but

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Speaker 2: we we like those places, and Germany was like really,

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Speaker 2: And then there was some invading and some shooting involved,

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Speaker 2: and Russia was like, all right, fine, fuck it, you

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Speaker 2: can have those places. And this kicks off some of

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Speaker 2: the wildest stuff about the whole Revolution, including, most notably

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Speaker 2: to me and my interests, the struggle for Ukraine that

430
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:48,000
Speaker 2: led to millions of people living the actual revolution promised

431
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 2: by the Soviets, freely elected assemblies at the local level

432
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:57,879
Speaker 2: coordinating together for mutual aid in defense the dreaded anarchism.

433
00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:01,440
Speaker 2: This was the first consciously and large scale social experiment

434
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,040
Speaker 2: in history, and it lasted for several years, but always

435
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:06,679
Speaker 2: at war. And I'm going to get a little bit

436
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 2: more into it further in this episode, but there's going

437
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,760
Speaker 2: to be a whole four parter about it. But basically,

438
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:13,680
Speaker 2: at this point, Ukraine is like, well, we don't want

439
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:16,920
Speaker 2: to be Germany. So they declared what they called neither

440
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:19,639
Speaker 2: war nor peace, which was no more imperialist war but

441
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:23,000
Speaker 2: fuck military occupation. And the Bolsheviks didn't like it because

442
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 2: uncontrollable revolutionary guerrillas was was worse to Lenin than giving

443
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 2: Ukraine to the German Empire. At this point, the SRS

444
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:33,680
Speaker 2: are like, we're fucking done with you Bolsheviks. You keep

445
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:36,399
Speaker 2: arresting and killing us and stuff, and we're not big

446
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:41,080
Speaker 2: fans of that. And basically they're like, you Bolsheviks are

447
00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:44,480
Speaker 2: just German proxies. And this is starting to get like

448
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:50,000
Speaker 2: calling Lenin and op is like getting some traction in Russia,

449
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,359
Speaker 2: which makes sense because I.

450
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:55,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, they did. They did. They did send him on

451
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:59,400
Speaker 3: a train with a pile of money to do exactly

452
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 3: what he did. Yeah, Like, it's not not it's not

453
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:09,359
Speaker 3: that that didn't happen. It's just right, slightly more complicated

454
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:14,040
Speaker 3: than right totally. And so the Srs leave the government.

455
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 2: I think this means that they stepped out from the

456
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:17,560
Speaker 2: Soviets at this point, because that's the only government left.

457
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,920
Speaker 2: By April nineteen eighteen, like three months after they'd relied

458
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,960
Speaker 2: on anarchists to be the shock troops breaking up the

459
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:29,600
Speaker 2: Constituent Assembly and relied on the Cronstadt sailors to do

460
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:33,440
Speaker 2: the October Revolution. And all of this, the Checha starts

461
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 2: killing the anarchists in Saint Petersburg and Moscow in April

462
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 2: nineteen eighteen through eight hundred anarchists are killed without a

463
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:44,120
Speaker 2: trial in an attempt to liquidate all anarchist organizations. Anarchists

464
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:48,880
Speaker 2: in Bolsheviks are BFF no longer, although unfortunately they whatever,

465
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:50,840
Speaker 2: they form a little bit of an alliance again later

466
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:55,920
Speaker 2: and Leon Trotsky, well before he met an ice Pick,

467
00:25:56,440 --> 00:26:00,360
Speaker 2: helped run this particular set of repressions. He ran propaganda

468
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,200
Speaker 2: that all these veterans of the revolution, the hardiest fighters

469
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:07,200
Speaker 2: were bandits and criminals because the anarchists were expropriating the rich,

470
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:09,120
Speaker 2: which was again the point.

471
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 3: Of the revolution doing the revolution.

472
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:14,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, On April twelfth, nineteen eighteen, alone, the Czecha attack

473
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:18,200
Speaker 2: twenty six anarchist centers in Moscow. Up to this point,

474
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:21,199
Speaker 2: as the Red Army was consolidating, like getting together a

475
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 2: Red Army, it too operated under revolutionary conditions. Like actual

476
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:29,439
Speaker 2: revolutionary conditions, Officers were elected by the people that they represented.

477
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:33,160
Speaker 2: There were soviets for the soldiers, and while officers were

478
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:35,919
Speaker 2: in charge, they weren't seen as better or higher like

479
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:39,879
Speaker 2: you need. Most people, including most anarchist group throughout history,

480
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,680
Speaker 2: have felt that a hierarchy is important during the heat

481
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:46,720
Speaker 2: of battle, right. However, that doesn't make the person who's

482
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 2: telling you what to do better than you, and that

483
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 2: was what people cared about, which makes sense. In June

484
00:26:56,040 --> 00:27:01,040
Speaker 2: nineteen eighteen, Trotsky ended the worker control over the Red Army.

485
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 2: No more elected officers, no more equality. Brought back not

486
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:08,239
Speaker 2: only aristocratic hierarchical systems with like the checho watching no

487
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 2: matter what you're doing, like they're always watching, waiting for

488
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:11,880
Speaker 2: you to step out of line. Officers got good pay

489
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:14,879
Speaker 2: in food. Anyone who spoke out against the party was shot.

490
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 2: That's a big sign that things are bad.

491
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 3: Yeah.

492
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 2: This was also mass recruitment of old Czarist officers. At

493
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,119
Speaker 2: the beginning of this process, it soon meant that seventy

494
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 2: five percent of officers in the Red Army were former

495
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 2: Czarist officers. By the end of the Civil War, that

496
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 2: number goes up to eighty three percent. And this particularly

497
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 2: matters in Russia because under the Czar, the officer class

498
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 2: was a separate social class compared to the rank and

499
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 2: file soldiers. So this is Trotsky not just bringing back

500
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 2: what he considers military efficiency. It is bringing back the

501
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:53,679
Speaker 2: aristocracy as a separate class and giving them guns and

502
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:56,240
Speaker 2: telling them that they're better than the peasants again, only

503
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:58,919
Speaker 2: now they're communists who are better than the peasants instead

504
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 2: of nobles who are better than the peasants.

505
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you'd think that, like you know, I mean,

506
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:07,119
Speaker 3: this has been something that through throughout sort of the

507
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:09,879
Speaker 3: history of Marxism, right, Like one of the deals that

508
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,439
Speaker 3: these people cut all the time is like will ally

509
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:14,919
Speaker 3: with like the national bourgeois because we need to do

510
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:18,159
Speaker 3: a revolution to overthrow feudalism. And the Bolsheviks are like,

511
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 3: not only are we like, not only are we doing

512
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 3: this kind of revolution, we're bringing we're bringing like the

513
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:27,160
Speaker 3: feudal aristocracy back and putting them.

514
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 2: In charge of our army. Is like, what are you

515
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:33,639
Speaker 2: people doing? And it's like just like on some level,

516
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:35,359
Speaker 2: I'm like, well, these are the officers who know how

517
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 2: to run an army, right, But when you make them

518
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 2: also better than people, that's when you then also are

519
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 2: making them the aristo aristos.

520
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 3: Again, that army was terrible.

521
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 2: That's a good point.

522
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 3: A different thing. Yeah, it's like this to be a different

523
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 3: thing if you're bringing back like okay, like the German army, right,

524
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 3: like no, this is that army was like I don't know,

525
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 3: maybe theal it's like one of like bottom of three armies.

526
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 3: The entirety of World War One. Terrible.

527
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, like dreadful stuff. It's a really good point. And

528
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 2: especially because like a lot of it, because it was

529
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 2: an aristocratic army even more than I think a lot

530
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 2: of the other places. The officers were just officers because

531
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 2: they were rich goods. Yeah, and like if you had

532
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 2: a like various types of like middle class job, you

533
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 2: got an officership. I read a couple examples of this

534
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 2: and didn't write them into the script. So in contrast

535
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 2: in the anarchist armies at the time, and I was

536
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:32,960
Speaker 2: always kind of curious about this because you're like, you

537
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 2: read about these anarchist armies, and you read about these

538
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 2: anarchist generals, and you're like, well, how does that work?

539
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 2: And the answer is it works like how the Soviets

540
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,719
Speaker 2: were promised to work, people vote and then they like

541
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 2: when they need to create pyramids of power, the power

542
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 2: of those pyramids is at the base, but some of

543
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 2: the decision making in times of wars at the top.

544
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:56,920
Speaker 2: But it's like entirely always everyone's recallable. So if you're

545
00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 2: fucking up as a leader, people are like, well, we

546
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:01,480
Speaker 2: don't want you anymore. And so you have a bunch

547
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 2: of famous leaders of the anarchist militaries, including and I'll

548
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 2: talk more about them than other episodes, but Maria Nikki

549
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 2: Farova and Nester Makhno Olga Tatua, and they'd all been

550
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 2: elected by their peers. And also two of those three

551
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 2: names are women. They've been elected by their peers because

552
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 2: they were good at leading in battle, and I don't know,

553
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 2: in many cases they turned the course of the war

554
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 2: because there's a war now. The Bolsheviks have taken power,

555
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 2: but not everyone wants them to, so civil war breaks out.

556
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 2: The boring way to describe this war, the way that

557
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 2: you read in the boring version, is that it's the

558
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 2: reds versus the Whites, the Communists versus the Czarists. The

559
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 2: more accurate way, which sounds more like something out of

560
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:47,479
Speaker 2: the Battle of Five Armies in Tolkien and therefore is cooler,

561
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:51,480
Speaker 2: is that there was the Red Army composed of Bolsheviks

562
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 2: and anarchists and others. There was the Black Army in

563
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 2: Ukraine composed of anarchists. There was the Green Army, which

564
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 2: was the sort of brotherhood of without banners from Game

565
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 2: of Thrones. These are the massive peasant armies who are like,

566
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 2: we fucking hate the Bolsheviks, we also fucking hate the Czarists.

567
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 2: We just fucking let us love heaver Land in peace.

568
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 2: And these sometimes are affiliated with the SRS, but not

569
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 2: like formally. And on top of that, you have almost

570
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 2: every chunk of people have independence movements, not just even

571
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:17,480
Speaker 2: the ones that are like now seen as nations, but

572
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 2: a lot of like the ethnic nations that are within

573
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 2: what is now Russia, have all these different nationalist armies.

574
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 2: And then you have the Western occupiers and so like

575
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:29,680
Speaker 2: you know, Germany and Ukraine, and then you also have

576
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 2: the other Western powers who throw in a bunch of armies,

577
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 2: including Japan who's like come in and trying to take Nanchuria.

578
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:36,880
Speaker 2: And we'll talk about that in a second. So like

579
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:40,600
Speaker 2: in Ukraine, you have the anarchist Black Army, the Bolshevikian

580
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 2: anarchist Red Army, the Ukrainian Nationalists, the German occupiers, and

581
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:49,280
Speaker 2: the Tsarist White Army. One might say a battle of

582
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 2: five armies.

583
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 3: Ah.

584
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 2: In the broader Civil war, there's also other forces trying

585
00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 2: to intervene against the revolution, most notably the UK and

586
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 2: the US and the France, which are so reporting the

587
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 2: White Army because they want to get Russia back into

588
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 2: the war against Germany, and Japan, which is supporting the

589
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 2: White Army in Siberia because they're always trying to land

590
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 2: grab Manchuria for their empire, and they actually I don't

591
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 2: know whether, like historically, this is like the only place

592
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 2: I've personally run across Japan is being presented as one

593
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 2: of the Western powers. But is that in any way normal.

594
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 2: There's two sources I read that referred to it as

595
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 2: one of.

596
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 3: These because so Japan's on Japan's on the Allied side

597
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 3: of the war, okay, And so yeah, they're also one

598
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 3: of the Western parts. Yeah, and by part of Japan's

599
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 3: like I don't know, villain arc I guess is that they,

600
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:43,040
Speaker 3: like Italy, are pissed off the end of the war.

601
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 3: They don't get enough territory becaus as part of what

602
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 3: drives both Italy and Japan into what's eventually going to

603
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 3: well into fascist governments and then eventually into what's going

604
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 3: to become the Axis because okay, also that I mean

605
00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 3: that process is complicated and fraud. But yeah, that's the

606
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 3: really high up bird's eye. Yeah, I guess, I like

607
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 3: what's happening there.

608
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 2: I was like, there's so many places that I don't

609
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:11,520
Speaker 2: totally understand some of the contexts. I'm really glad that

610
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 2: me as the guest. And that's a good example. And yeah,

611
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 2: and they're the majority of about forty percent of the

612
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:21,640
Speaker 2: Western power of troops that are committed to defending the

613
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 2: White Army come from Japan, but they never go into

614
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 2: Western Russia. They stop at.

615
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:29,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's only about the occupying armies. Everyone talks

616
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 3: about how like, oh, there's like twelve countries sent armies.

617
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 3: It's like, okay, the US sent like five thousand troops

618
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 3: to archangel and they sat there for a few months

619
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 3: and they left, Like it wasn't as serious of an

620
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 3: attempt to like conquer Russia restore the White Army as

621
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 3: you would have thought there there would have been except

622
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 3: for Japan, who sends a shit ton of troops and

623
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 3: is but also doesn't care about what's really going on,

624
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 3: and like, right, that other part of Russia and like

625
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 3: the other like basically effectively on a different continent, right, like.

626
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:08,880
Speaker 2: You know, like yeah, yeah, no, it makes sense to me.

627
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:11,080
Speaker 2: And I know about one hundred and eighty thousand troops

628
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:14,479
Speaker 2: all told from all the different countries when but yeah,

629
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 2: like I'm under the impression that there was never a

630
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 2: really serious attempt and they weren't very well coordinated with

631
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:23,360
Speaker 2: each other them and most of them are kind of

632
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:25,880
Speaker 2: just sitting in this. They'll be in a city and

633
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 2: they'll just like sit there, yeah, and they won't like

634
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:34,440
Speaker 2: go out and do offensives because the commitment level is really.

635
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:36,160
Speaker 3: Not that high. And also like I shall also like it,

636
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:38,520
Speaker 3: but like I don't know, because I get very mad

637
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 3: about people talking about this issharies. It's like if by

638
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 3: by World War One standards, one hundred and eighty thousand

639
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 3: troops is like nothing, right, totally, like it's like seven guys. Yeah,

640
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 3: and again that one hundred and forty one hundred and

641
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:53,720
Speaker 3: eighty thousand, like eighty thousand of them are just Japan, right,

642
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:56,880
Speaker 3: So yeah, sorry, this is my no, no totally bears

643
00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 3: about this revolution is that, like, it's not that the

644
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 3: Western Allies weren't trying to oversol the government, but they

645
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 3: weren't trying anywhere near as hard as they could have,

646
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:06,040
Speaker 3: or they would have if World War One hadn't been

647
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:07,440
Speaker 3: like going on.

648
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. So the White Army is the main antagonist

649
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 2: force that people talk about, or I guess protagonist force

650
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 2: depending on who's writing. There are three separate White armies,

651
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 2: and they're all kind of doomed, like they weren't gonna win,

652
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:28,600
Speaker 2: at least according to again more than one thing I

653
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:32,840
Speaker 2: read about this, partly because they have nothing to offer ideologically,

654
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 2: like their whole thing is like, I don't know, not

655
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 2: the Bolsheviks will sort the rest out later, probably something

656
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:42,239
Speaker 2: pretty right wing, but huh. And the three armies also

657
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 2: don't coordinate well together, and so they kind of get

658
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 2: smashed one at a time because they're a little bit

659
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:53,160
Speaker 2: separately timed, and often they are smashed by the anarchists.

660
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 2: Juleshnikov and Makno take out the Southern White Army in Ukraine,

661
00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:01,960
Speaker 2: defeeding two of the White generals there. And in Ukraine,

662
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 2: the anarchists have kind of classic militaries, like there's a

663
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 2: I mean there's an anarchist country of sort right in

664
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:10,719
Speaker 2: Ukraine that with seven million people, that supplies them, and

665
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:14,480
Speaker 2: they fight and win battles against the whites. In Siberia,

666
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 2: the anarchists were also very strong, but they were less organized,

667
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:20,799
Speaker 2: and they were less building a new society and more

668
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:25,480
Speaker 2: running a gorilla war because it's a low population density,

669
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 2: mountains and forests. Yeah, the Civil war actually lasts longest

670
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 2: in Siberia, and anarchist guerrillas beat the White army in Siberia,

671
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 2: or at least are a major part of it. It's

672
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:37,200
Speaker 2: like the source I read was like and then the

673
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:39,560
Speaker 2: anarchists and named several of them, like beat the White army,

674
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 2: And then I'm like, well now I'm moving that an

675
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:43,759
Speaker 2: anarchist source. So of course it says like the anarchist Yeah, yea.

676
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:47,400
Speaker 2: In Ukraine, I feel reasonably confident about saying that. In Siberia,

677
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 2: I don't have as much information, but they certainly helped

678
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 2: or did it all, I don't know. Each time anarchists

679
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 2: succeeded at defeating the whites, they were immediately shot by

680
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:02,160
Speaker 2: the Reds because ufulness had come to an end. The

681
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:04,880
Speaker 2: Bolsheviks wrote most of the history since they won. A

682
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:09,360
Speaker 2: historian named Igor Pushivalov put it quote. For many decades,

683
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:13,080
Speaker 2: Soviet historians diligently suppressed the presence of non communist forces

684
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:15,439
Speaker 2: and the partisan movement. In the years of the Civil War,

685
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:19,760
Speaker 2: left communist forces fighting against the whites were virtually deprived

686
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:22,799
Speaker 2: of recognition as revolutionaries on the basis that their conceptions

687
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:26,279
Speaker 2: of revolution and social justice differed from those of the communists.

688
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 2: But the true story is otherwise. It was far from

689
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:32,400
Speaker 2: the case that all the workers and peasants fought for

690
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:35,440
Speaker 2: their rights under the red banner, or if they did so,

691
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:39,480
Speaker 2: it was not always a communist symbol. The socialist revolutionaries

692
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:42,239
Speaker 2: had a red banner with a slogan, in struggle you

693
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 2: will gain your rights. A considerable portion of the toilers

694
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:48,320
Speaker 2: just went into battle under the black banner of freedom,

695
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 2: justice and the memory of the victims of capital, the

696
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 2: banner of the anarchists. The reds were victorious not because

697
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 2: the majority of the people went with them, but because

698
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 2: the majority went against the whites. In those years, this

699
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:05,680
Speaker 2: was obvious even for many communists. As early as October

700
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:08,680
Speaker 2: nineteen eighteen, one of the leaders of the Siberian Communists

701
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 2: AA Melesnikoff reported to the Bolsheviks, Unfortunately, the uprising is

702
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 2: beginning without our leadership. It's the most Bolshevik light of

703
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:20,359
Speaker 2: all time.

704
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:20,880
Speaker 1: I know.

705
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 2: Unfortunately we're winning, but it's not us.

706
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:27,359
Speaker 3: Yeah.

707
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:34,080
Speaker 2: So in June nineteen eighteen, the Bolsheviks declare war communism,

708
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 2: which is an economic thing. And you know what else

709
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 2: is an economic decision?

710
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:40,239
Speaker 5: Is it?

711
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 3: Decision not to buy the products and services to support

712
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 3: this podcast? It's a poor one.

713
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:49,400
Speaker 2: It's as bad as war communism. You are supporting if

714
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 2: you don't support American capitalism. Those are the only two options.

715
00:38:54,760 --> 00:39:09,960
Speaker 2: So you'd better do it. Here they go, and we're back.

716
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 2: War communism, to put it bluntly, is not communism. It

717
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:18,880
Speaker 2: has almost no relationship to the concept of communism. Instead

718
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:21,360
Speaker 2: of workers and peasants controlling factories and farms, it is

719
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:25,239
Speaker 2: distant bureaucrats. There's strict discipline for all the workers. I mean,

720
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:28,839
Speaker 2: it's just autocracy, right, Is there any other like it

721
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:33,880
Speaker 2: is longer? Yeah, oh sorry, you'll probably get to this, okay,

722
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 2: and then and then come in with it. If I

723
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 2: don't longer work days, striking becomes a capital crime all peasants.

724
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 2: Christ I did know that part. Yeah, by killing strikers,

725
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:47,400
Speaker 2: all peasant goods are appropriated by the state, not just

726
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:49,840
Speaker 2: people who own more than they can use, but anyone,

727
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:53,160
Speaker 2: anything is appropriated by the state. This was worse than

728
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:56,440
Speaker 2: anything Thezar had done to his serfs. Millions died of starvation,

729
00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:59,719
Speaker 2: and many would revolt, and the aristocratic Red Army would

730
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 2: come in and put those rebellions down. The party is

731
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:05,879
Speaker 2: now allowed to veto any decision by any Soviet. All

732
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 2: power to the Soviets did not last a year. That's

733
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:09,920
Speaker 2: my war communism. What am I missing?

734
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:11,279
Speaker 3: Yeah?

735
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 5: Why?

736
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:12,759
Speaker 3: I mean, this is like the thing I wants to

737
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:16,919
Speaker 3: emphasize about this specifically is, you know, the one thing

738
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:23,680
Speaker 3: that revolutionary theorists had learned from the original French Revolution

739
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:27,360
Speaker 3: was that you cannot have a revolution that functions just

740
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 3: by armies of urban workers going into the countryside and

741
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 3: taking everyone' stuff at gunpoint. Yeah, and like, like this

742
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 3: is very specifically so Kpotan, who we've been talking about.

743
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:38,600
Speaker 3: His book The Conquest of Bread is his sort of,

744
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:41,839
Speaker 3: you know, depiction of what the what a revolution looks

745
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:43,680
Speaker 3: like and how and why and the sort of moral

746
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:46,279
Speaker 3: justification for it. And he is very very sophific about

747
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 3: this of like, okay, so, like, if you have an

748
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 3: urban revolution, you've taken one city, right, you have to

749
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:56,239
Speaker 3: go into the countryside and give like finished goods to

750
00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:58,719
Speaker 3: the peasants, and then they will give you food if

751
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:01,759
Speaker 3: you are like nice to them and make deals with them.

752
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:04,719
Speaker 3: And the Bolsheviks are like, okay, hold on, but what

753
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:08,880
Speaker 3: if instead of that, we sent literally enormous armies of

754
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:11,920
Speaker 3: like systematized bandits into the countryside and we took all

755
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:14,680
Speaker 3: these people's food at gunpoint, Like what if? And then

756
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:17,879
Speaker 3: like spend all this time complaining about peasant uprisings. Yeah,

757
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:21,239
Speaker 3: it's like, you know, if only, if only there was

758
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:25,400
Speaker 3: a guy who was there, literally who was like I

759
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 3: wrote a book telling you how to avoid this problem.

760
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:33,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, Kirpacken's literally that. I think we end up talking

761
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 2: about it in this script. I can't remember. He's like

762
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:38,440
Speaker 2: in conversation with Lenin. He doesn't like Lenin. Lenin is

763
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 2: like trying to be like, oh, Kropackett and I are

764
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:43,040
Speaker 2: like best friends, don't worry, but like Korpakin is like

765
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 2: writing him like what the hell are you doing letters

766
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:48,240
Speaker 2: all the time? But he's he's willing to talk to him.

767
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think Krpakin in a letter I think it

768
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 3: was it was one of the anders. I think it

769
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:56,400
Speaker 3: was Schapawkin literally said in a letter of Lenin, Lenin

770
00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 3: is not a revolutionary. Revolutionaries have principles, Lenin has none.

771
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:02,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's scripakn So.

772
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:04,400
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, they're not getting along.

773
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:08,680
Speaker 2: Great, No, no, it's another Lenin lie that they're getting along.

774
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:11,360
Speaker 2: And at this point probably Lenin doesn't even bother with

775
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 2: that lie, right, he only bothers when he's like trying

776
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:16,000
Speaker 2: to use the anarchists, although he is again actually even

777
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:18,200
Speaker 2: though he's like run around and killed all the anarchists,

778
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:20,440
Speaker 2: now that the whites attack, he's like, oh yeah, like

779
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:25,080
Speaker 2: we're like all friends. But in July nineteen eighteen, the

780
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:27,920
Speaker 2: SRS try to rebel against the Bolsheviks and they are

781
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:32,040
Speaker 2: defeated and the party was criminalized, and the Bolsheviks now

782
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 2: say that they are the only party that can participate

783
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:37,759
Speaker 2: in government. And frankly, the anarchist should have joined the

784
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:40,879
Speaker 2: SRS in that fight. Yeah, But like I know, I'm

785
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:44,560
Speaker 2: armchair generally from a one hundred years in the future.

786
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:51,360
Speaker 2: But what's going to happen is that the anarchists are

787
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:52,920
Speaker 2: going to be are going to stand alone because they

788
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:57,040
Speaker 2: were with the bad guys for too long and put

789
00:42:57,080 --> 00:42:59,319
Speaker 2: down all the other people who could have stood with them.

790
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:02,839
Speaker 2: Somewhere along the way in nineteen eighteen, the first concentration

791
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:05,200
Speaker 2: camps are set up, soon leading to the Gulag system.

792
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:10,800
Speaker 2: Stalin will become famous for. August nineteen eighteen, Lenin declares

793
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:15,440
Speaker 2: quote mass terror against revolts. There are mass executions of

794
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:18,960
Speaker 2: peasants and workers. There are mass executions of sex workers.

795
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:21,640
Speaker 2: Because Lenin said that these are the reason that discipline

796
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 2: is so low among the soldiers. And he also would

797
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:29,239
Speaker 2: do things like, hey, while we're at it, kill one

798
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:32,680
Speaker 2: hundred random peasants, just so people know we are fucking scary.

799
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:38,120
Speaker 2: Which is the most Czarrest asked thing. This is the

800
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:40,719
Speaker 2: country that gives us the word decimate, where you just

801
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 2: kill one and ten of the soldiers to try and

802
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:43,319
Speaker 2: make them all bab.

803
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:44,480
Speaker 3: I thought it was a Roman thing.

804
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:47,080
Speaker 2: Oh maybe not. I don't know. I read a Tolstoy

805
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:50,040
Speaker 2: story once. Eh, I read a Tolstoy story, I promise,

806
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:53,880
Speaker 2: and it talks about decimation. But it's probably a Roman thing.

807
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:57,080
Speaker 2: But I mean, I think or maybe wrote about it,

808
00:43:57,120 --> 00:43:58,360
Speaker 2: and that's a fiction story, and I'm not.

809
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:01,160
Speaker 1: Two toll stoys. I think that's two SIPs of whatever

810
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:02,439
Speaker 1: you choose to drink.

811
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:08,760
Speaker 2: Either way, it sucks. Don't kill one hundred random peasants

812
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 2: to scare the rest, don't mass execute sex worker, don't

813
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:13,320
Speaker 2: kill a single sex worker.

814
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:16,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, I will say I've heard a lot of argument

815
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:20,239
Speaker 3: over whether that over whether Okay, So the question is

816
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:23,560
Speaker 3: it's not a question of whether Lenin ordered it. The

817
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:27,319
Speaker 3: question is whether it actually happened. And I've seen a

818
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:30,759
Speaker 3: bunch of conflicting reports about it. But at the very

819
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:34,319
Speaker 3: least they at the very least they tried, like like

820
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 3: they wanted to. I don't know if they ever actually

821
00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:40,520
Speaker 3: did it, because but again, this is one of these

822
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:45,759
Speaker 3: things that's been like lost to the haze of it's

823
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:50,360
Speaker 3: everyone's conflicting accounts are mutually irreconcilable, and it's impossible to

824
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:53,560
Speaker 3: tell who's telling the truth totally. You just have to

825
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:55,799
Speaker 3: sort of Yeah.

826
00:44:55,280 --> 00:45:01,319
Speaker 2: That particular one is from an account of Matelonian anarchists

827
00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:04,759
Speaker 2: celebrating the one hundredth anniversary. Is from a piece they

828
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:07,240
Speaker 2: wrote about the counter revolution of the Bolsheviks. That particular

829
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:10,480
Speaker 2: that's my source for it, so I don't know, you know.

830
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:14,120
Speaker 2: In September nineteen eighteen, the Czecha openly decide on their

831
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:17,479
Speaker 2: policy of red terror against counter revolutionaries, which means anyone

832
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:21,799
Speaker 2: who's not a Bolshevik. Folks don't take this line down,

833
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:24,399
Speaker 2: of course, and revolts against the Bolsheviks keep picking up.

834
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:28,839
Speaker 2: Fanya Koplan was a Jewish sr woman who had been

835
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:32,319
Speaker 2: doing some maximalist stuff. When she was sixteen nineteen oh six.

836
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:35,799
Speaker 2: She and her partner were like building bombs to Bomzaris

837
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:39,120
Speaker 2: leaders back then, but one went off prematurely. She spent

838
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:42,000
Speaker 2: eleven years in Siberia, going mostly blind, until she was

839
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:47,319
Speaker 2: free during the February Revolution, and on August thirtieth, nineteen eighteen, she,

840
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:51,720
Speaker 2: as she puts it, quote, my name is Fanya Kaplan.

841
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:55,560
Speaker 2: Today I shot Lenin. I did it on my own.

842
00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:58,080
Speaker 2: I will not say from whom I obtained my revolver.

843
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:01,400
Speaker 2: I will give no details. I've resolved to kill Lenin

844
00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:04,320
Speaker 2: long ago. I consider I'm a trader to the revolution.

845
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:08,400
Speaker 2: I was exiled to Actui for participating in an assassination

846
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:12,000
Speaker 2: attempt against a Zarist official in Kiev. I spent eleven

847
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:14,960
Speaker 2: years at hard labor. After the revolution, I was freed.

848
00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:17,960
Speaker 2: I favored the Constituent Assembly and am still for it.

849
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:23,240
Speaker 2: So by most versions of this story, she shoots Lenin

850
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:25,440
Speaker 2: three times with the handgun that actually wasn't a revolver,

851
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:27,720
Speaker 2: but it was like the first handgun operator with a slide.

852
00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:30,879
Speaker 2: Any gun nerds, it's an FNM one nine zero zero.

853
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:33,960
Speaker 2: She got him in the neck and the shoulder and

854
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:36,640
Speaker 2: punctured his lungs. He recovered, but he never made a

855
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:39,200
Speaker 2: full recovery, and Fanya's bullets were likely part of what

856
00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:41,560
Speaker 2: brought Lenin too an early grave in nineteen twenty four.

857
00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:45,520
Speaker 2: There's another version of the story where she took credit

858
00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:47,279
Speaker 2: for the crime and she was there ready to do

859
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:50,600
Speaker 2: the crime, but a different woman who wasn't blind did

860
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:53,320
Speaker 2: the shooting, and then they caught her and she was like, yep,

861
00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:54,279
Speaker 2: it was me.

862
00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:55,799
Speaker 3: I definitely did it.

863
00:46:55,880 --> 00:47:01,160
Speaker 2: That's so funny, principled as hell. Either way, Yeah, it

864
00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:05,160
Speaker 2: may may or her memory be eternal. She was caught,

865
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:07,880
Speaker 2: immediately refused to give up her comrades and was executed.

866
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:09,719
Speaker 2: She got a bullet to the back of her head

867
00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:11,880
Speaker 2: and then her body shoved into a barrel and burned

868
00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:16,279
Speaker 2: Jesus and then partly in response to that, you have

869
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 2: the red tear. In two months, they killed ten to

870
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:22,520
Speaker 2: fifteen thousand people. By nineteen twenty two they killed around

871
00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:26,120
Speaker 2: one point five million people. It's around this point, not

872
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:30,400
Speaker 2: nineteen twenty two, but you know nineteen where am I

873
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:33,839
Speaker 2: at nineteen eighteen? And in nineteen eighteen Ukrainian anarchists start

874
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:35,560
Speaker 2: doing their thing and talked tobim a little bit morem

875
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:37,160
Speaker 2: I'm talking about a little bit more even, I promise

876
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:39,120
Speaker 2: you a four part are about them, mostly about Maria

877
00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:42,920
Speaker 2: Niki Ferova because she's amazing, but she's so cool. Yeah,

878
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:45,960
Speaker 2: and ooh, arguments about sources as relates to that one.

879
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:49,840
Speaker 2: That's why we're not doing too much about her yet. Anyway,

880
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:52,680
Speaker 2: I'm like talking with someone who's trying to get me

881
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:54,680
Speaker 2: in touch with the Ukrainian anarchist to be like, no,

882
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:57,880
Speaker 2: this is actually how she died or whatever. That's besides

883
00:47:57,960 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 2: the point. I'm talking about a woman that most of

884
00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:02,840
Speaker 2: you don't know who I'm talking about, but the Ukrainian

885
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:06,800
Speaker 2: anarchists seven million people in South Ukraine declare the free territory.

886
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:09,759
Speaker 2: This is an anarchist society where power is held by communes.

887
00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:14,319
Speaker 2: Militias were free and decentralized. Land was collectivised, workers took

888
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:17,960
Speaker 2: control of their factories. Education was modernized along the lines

889
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:20,440
Speaker 2: of Francisco Ferrar, who we did a whole series of

890
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:25,600
Speaker 2: episodes about. There is no party control of Soviets, including

891
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:30,960
Speaker 2: anarchist control. This is anarchist in form, so there's political pluralism.

892
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:33,680
Speaker 2: Even the Bolsheviks are allowed to print their papers in

893
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:39,000
Speaker 2: anarchist Ukraine. The organization is basically you have regional congresses

894
00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:42,719
Speaker 2: of peasants, workers and insurgents called the Free Soviets, which

895
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:46,440
Speaker 2: then have a more central military Revolutionary Council that people

896
00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:49,840
Speaker 2: sometimes argue was technically a government, usually Bolsheviks trying to

897
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:54,400
Speaker 2: argue that anarchists isn't real. You can't possibly have anarchism. Yeah,

898
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:58,840
Speaker 2: but a Bolshevik who hated the Ukrainian anarchists said the

899
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 2: following about them at the time. Quote, these organs of

900
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:06,480
Speaker 2: power the Free Soviet were very primitive. There was no

901
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:10,360
Speaker 2: central organ of government. There was only the Military Revolutionary Soviet,

902
00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:12,920
Speaker 2: which was at once a sort of parliament and central

903
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:16,759
Speaker 2: military agency dealing with both military and civil matters. This

904
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:20,479
Speaker 2: agency had a wide range of functions, but in performing these,

905
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:23,799
Speaker 2: it presented itself only as a steering body and had

906
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:26,920
Speaker 2: no rights of its own, all power being vested in

907
00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:30,640
Speaker 2: the local organs. Everything boiled down to each village in

908
00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:36,000
Speaker 2: each district, directing itself with complete independence, which really doesn't

909
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:38,640
Speaker 2: sound like a state when you put it like that. No,

910
00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:43,759
Speaker 2: and it's just like but it also sounds functional, you know. Yeah,

911
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:46,000
Speaker 2: And what I love about it is that the Bolsheviks

912
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:48,359
Speaker 2: of the time are like, that's scarcely a government at all,

913
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:52,960
Speaker 2: whereas Bolshevik apologists today are like, oh, Makos, Ukraine is

914
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:56,879
Speaker 2: totally a state. Everyone makes states. There's no escaping it. Yeah,

915
00:49:57,400 --> 00:49:59,479
Speaker 2: something is is kind of the tangent. But I wanted

916
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:02,560
Speaker 2: to talk about this of all of the sort of

917
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:05,760
Speaker 2: weird stuff that marks us do to define a state,

918
00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:09,680
Speaker 2: to like avoid having to deal with the thing that

919
00:50:09,719 --> 00:50:12,080
Speaker 2: they created. Like so like in Lenin's Satan Revolution, he

920
00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:13,600
Speaker 2: has this thing or like a state is like it's

921
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:17,120
Speaker 2: a special armed body. Okay, now, so.

922
00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:20,560
Speaker 3: Think about those eight He never explains what that is, right,

923
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:23,279
Speaker 3: he just says a special armed body. That doesn't mean anything. Yeah,

924
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:26,080
Speaker 3: it means nothing. And his argument is that like Okay,

925
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:28,080
Speaker 3: So the the sort of social estate isn't going to

926
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:29,680
Speaker 3: be a special armed body because it just it is

927
00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:33,120
Speaker 3: the proletaria blah blah, bah blah blah. But there's this

928
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:35,680
Speaker 3: issue with it, which is that one of the things

929
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:38,480
Speaker 3: Lenin like this is very explicit about this is that

930
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:41,959
Speaker 3: under like in like the lower phases of socialism or whatever,

931
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:43,960
Speaker 3: which is the first thing you set up, the state

932
00:50:44,040 --> 00:50:45,320
Speaker 3: is still going to be your landlord.

933
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:46,160
Speaker 2: Okay.

934
00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:48,920
Speaker 3: And so if you think that through for about five seconds, right,

935
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:51,520
Speaker 3: you can tell that everything they're saying is a lie

936
00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:54,360
Speaker 3: because in order for the state to be your landlord,

937
00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:57,320
Speaker 3: there has to be a special armed body that collects rent,

938
00:50:57,600 --> 00:51:01,040
Speaker 3: right totally, because otherwise how can like, you know, if

939
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:03,960
Speaker 3: the state really is simply sort of the manifestation of

940
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:07,760
Speaker 3: the political will, the proletariat or whatever, what is collecting

941
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:11,279
Speaker 3: rent from you? Yeah, And if you look at that

942
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:12,799
Speaker 3: and you look at this as like, oh no, he's

943
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:16,480
Speaker 3: lying about all of this, yeah, because there has to

944
00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:20,319
Speaker 3: be something else that's that's going to collect rent from

945
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:22,240
Speaker 3: all these pleny. As it turns out, like the Bullshviks

946
00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:25,040
Speaker 3: don't even follow at all the stuff they wrote in

947
00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:27,920
Speaker 3: the in statean Revolution right, like, there's no cheka in

948
00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:31,920
Speaker 3: the state revolution. I mean there is in real life.

949
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:34,920
Speaker 2: It was an appeal to get the other radical groups

950
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:39,000
Speaker 2: on board, is yeah, the way that I read it

951
00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:42,920
Speaker 2: referred to. You know, I'm not a specific expert on that,

952
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:45,239
Speaker 2: but yeah, yeah, And the Bullsheviks were good at this, right,

953
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:47,879
Speaker 2: Like they stole the sr's land reform policy, and then

954
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:51,120
Speaker 2: they stole the sort of anarchisty like all powder the Soviets.

955
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:54,840
Speaker 3: Thing, and that gets you to this moment of everyone

956
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:57,440
Speaker 3: arguing about whether or not this is a state because

957
00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:00,279
Speaker 3: that was something that originally the Bolsheviks claimed to care

958
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:01,279
Speaker 3: a lot about and.

959
00:52:01,239 --> 00:52:08,799
Speaker 2: Then yeah, stopped. And what the anarchists in Ukraine did

960
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:11,440
Speaker 2: when they set up this society, what they didn't do,

961
00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:15,279
Speaker 2: despite everyone involved in the organizing openly calling themselves anarchists,

962
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:18,040
Speaker 2: like the people who set it up, is they did

963
00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:21,279
Speaker 2: not call the society that they set up anarchists. It

964
00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:24,839
Speaker 2: was politically pluralist using anarchist organizational ideas set up by

965
00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:31,680
Speaker 2: anarchists and get your red string out. How do they start? Well,

966
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:35,400
Speaker 2: even before any of this other shit, like in nineteen seventeen,

967
00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:39,960
Speaker 2: I think they adopted the preamble of the constitution of

968
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:43,040
Speaker 2: the United States based labor Union. Get out your banko

969
00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:46,760
Speaker 2: guards under your drinks, the industrial workers of the world. Bye,

970
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:50,160
Speaker 2: I did not know that that's so cool, which means

971
00:52:50,719 --> 00:52:53,359
Speaker 2: Lucy Parsons born a slave in the US South, You've

972
00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:56,880
Speaker 2: done it again. Might be the most influential figure in

973
00:52:56,880 --> 00:53:00,760
Speaker 2: anarchist history, if not in terms of incredileary of agitation,

974
00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:04,160
Speaker 2: speech and the construction of organizations. And if you go

975
00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:06,120
Speaker 2: back to the very first episode of the show, it's

976
00:53:06,160 --> 00:53:10,920
Speaker 2: about the Haymarket murders, which we might run nawish or

977
00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:14,200
Speaker 2: maybe even ran recently. Again, we're going to rerun that

978
00:53:14,239 --> 00:53:18,719
Speaker 2: one around May Day. Anyway. The Maknivists, as they end

979
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:22,480
Speaker 2: up getting called, refer to their goals because Makno the

980
00:53:22,600 --> 00:53:25,640
Speaker 2: guy who kind of ended up being the general or whatever.

981
00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:29,720
Speaker 2: They refer to their goals like this. The toilers themselves

982
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:32,520
Speaker 2: must freely choose their soviets which will carry out the

983
00:53:32,560 --> 00:53:36,320
Speaker 2: will and desire of the toilers. That is, administrative soviets,

984
00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:40,840
Speaker 2: not state soviets. The land, factories, mills, mines, railways, and

985
00:53:40,880 --> 00:53:44,520
Speaker 2: other popular riches must belong to the toilers who work

986
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:48,359
Speaker 2: in them. That is, they must be socialized and how

987
00:53:48,400 --> 00:53:52,960
Speaker 2: did they do it? Well, quote, an uncompromising revolution and

988
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:56,719
Speaker 2: a direct struggle against all the arbitrariness, lies and oppression,

989
00:53:56,800 --> 00:54:00,520
Speaker 2: whatever their source, a struggle to the death, struggle for

990
00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:04,319
Speaker 2: free speech and for the righteous cause, a struggle with

991
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:08,000
Speaker 2: weapons in hand. Only through the abolition of all rulers,

992
00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:10,560
Speaker 2: through the destruction of the whole foundation of their lies

993
00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:15,040
Speaker 2: in state as well as political and economic affairs. Only

994
00:54:15,080 --> 00:54:17,800
Speaker 2: through the destruction of the state by means of social revolution,

995
00:54:18,239 --> 00:54:21,759
Speaker 2: can we attain a genuine worker, peasants Soviet order and

996
00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:26,600
Speaker 2: arrive at socialism. That I know, it's just like, well,

997
00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:28,600
Speaker 2: that's what I'm so good, that's what I believe in,

998
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:33,799
Speaker 2: Like I'm in you know. I mean, of course I

999
00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:38,040
Speaker 2: was in. But and by nineteen nineteen, the Civil War

1000
00:54:38,120 --> 00:54:40,759
Speaker 2: is raging. There's conscription in the Red Army, and the

1001
00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:44,000
Speaker 2: Czecha are just wandering around the country killing deserters in Russia.

1002
00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:48,000
Speaker 2: Some deserters go home. There's like millions of deserters who

1003
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:51,080
Speaker 2: are leaving the army. Right, some deserters go home and

1004
00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:53,640
Speaker 2: they form these green armies of peasants who are trying

1005
00:54:53,640 --> 00:54:55,879
Speaker 2: to defend their areas from both the whites and the Bolsheviks.

1006
00:54:57,680 --> 00:55:02,200
Speaker 2: So the Cheka didn't just execute desertings soldiers. They kidnapped

1007
00:55:02,239 --> 00:55:05,280
Speaker 2: the families of deserting soldiers and then killed family members

1008
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:07,800
Speaker 2: until the soldiers returned to face justice themselves.

1009
00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:08,480
Speaker 3: Oh my god.

1010
00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:13,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, the civil wars going badly though, and the Bolsheviks

1011
00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:16,120
Speaker 2: need allies, so they're like, hey, SRS, you're like no

1012
00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:20,919
Speaker 2: longer illegal, can you can you can you get your help?

1013
00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:24,280
Speaker 2: So the SRS come out of hiding. So the Czecha

1014
00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:26,600
Speaker 2: started arresting all the SR leadership now that they're not

1015
00:55:26,600 --> 00:55:30,080
Speaker 2: in hiding anymore. And this is like kind of you

1016
00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:32,560
Speaker 2: get this period where the anarchists are now fighting the

1017
00:55:32,560 --> 00:55:36,680
Speaker 2: White armies again, even though the Bolsheviks have turned against them.

1018
00:55:36,840 --> 00:55:40,120
Speaker 2: In March twelfth to March fourteenth and nineteen nineteen, in

1019
00:55:40,200 --> 00:55:43,759
Speaker 2: only one city, the Cheka murdered two thousand to four

1020
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:47,560
Speaker 2: thousand striking workers, as well as the Red Army soldiers

1021
00:55:47,600 --> 00:55:50,359
Speaker 2: who had thrown down with the striking workers. Because the

1022
00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:54,120
Speaker 2: Red Army has a morale problem when they fight leftists.

1023
00:55:55,040 --> 00:55:56,840
Speaker 2: They don't have a moral problem when they fight the

1024
00:55:56,920 --> 00:56:00,480
Speaker 2: right wing. No, we need to sign up or like

1025
00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:03,680
Speaker 2: shooting factory workers, like what is it, Yeah, what kind

1026
00:56:03,719 --> 00:56:06,160
Speaker 2: of proletary and revolution are you running? Well, you're shooting

1027
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:09,719
Speaker 2: striking workers, like, yeah, what are we doing here? And

1028
00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:12,480
Speaker 2: so the Cheka as they're murdering all of these strikers,

1029
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:15,640
Speaker 2: two thousand and four thousand of them. They some of

1030
00:56:15,640 --> 00:56:17,600
Speaker 2: them are killed by firing squad, but they decided to

1031
00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:19,840
Speaker 2: save the bullets and they were tied to rocks and

1032
00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:25,360
Speaker 2: thrown into the freezing river Jesus. On March sixteenth, nineteen nineteen,

1033
00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:28,880
Speaker 2: the Checha attacked a striking factory. The workers were demanding

1034
00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:31,920
Speaker 2: non starvation food rations, freedom of the press, the end

1035
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:35,360
Speaker 2: of red terror, the end of special privileges for party members.

1036
00:56:36,280 --> 00:56:39,560
Speaker 2: Nine hundred were arrested, two hundred were executed without a trial.

1037
00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:46,040
Speaker 2: And these are specific examples among many others. The Chech

1038
00:56:46,040 --> 00:56:49,640
Speaker 2: in particular were torturers as well. They boiled people alive,

1039
00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:54,440
Speaker 2: they flayed people, they buried people alive. And you know

1040
00:56:54,480 --> 00:56:58,759
Speaker 2: that they did the Orwell trick. Literally no, they would

1041
00:56:58,840 --> 00:57:01,000
Speaker 2: put a rat in a metal two tube, press it

1042
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:03,520
Speaker 2: against a prisoner's body, and then light a fire under

1043
00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:05,640
Speaker 2: the tube, so the rat has to eat its way

1044
00:57:05,640 --> 00:57:11,200
Speaker 2: through the prisoner to escape the fire. What Jesus In

1045
00:57:11,239 --> 00:57:14,760
Speaker 2: May nineteen nineteen, they try and fail to execute Makno

1046
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:18,320
Speaker 2: and Ukraine. By June nineteen nineteen, the Bolsheviks tried to

1047
00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:21,560
Speaker 2: criminalize and execute anarchists in Ukraine. They were like, oh,

1048
00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:25,040
Speaker 2: we don't like you anymore. Right, Trotsky said, I'd rather

1049
00:57:25,160 --> 00:57:27,840
Speaker 2: Ukraine fall to the whites than be held by the anarchists.

1050
00:57:28,840 --> 00:57:32,320
Speaker 2: Especially by that fall, when the Ukrainian anarchists had successfully

1051
00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:35,720
Speaker 2: beaten back the Whites, the Bolsheviks were like, yeah, we

1052
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:39,760
Speaker 2: don't need them anymore. In May nineteen twenty, ten thousand

1053
00:57:39,800 --> 00:57:43,120
Speaker 2: rebels in southern Siberia, the Altai and Thomsk regions. They

1054
00:57:43,160 --> 00:57:46,480
Speaker 2: start fighting against the White Army, but they're not doing

1055
00:57:46,480 --> 00:57:48,720
Speaker 2: it like how the Red Army wants. They're actually fighting

1056
00:57:48,720 --> 00:57:51,959
Speaker 2: for work or control in Soviets. So the Red Army

1057
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:55,880
Speaker 2: criminalizes the Altai on Anarchists Federation and starts fucking them

1058
00:57:55,920 --> 00:57:59,400
Speaker 2: up too. In June nineteen twenty, women workers in the

1059
00:57:59,400 --> 00:58:01,320
Speaker 2: city of tul go on strike for the right to

1060
00:58:01,360 --> 00:58:04,520
Speaker 2: have Sundays off work, and they are sent to concentration camps.

1061
00:58:05,080 --> 00:58:05,880
Speaker 3: Oh my god.

1062
00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:10,280
Speaker 2: On August nineteenth, nineteen twenty, the tambof peasant rebellion kicks off. See,

1063
00:58:10,320 --> 00:58:12,200
Speaker 2: the Red Army was in town and they were beating

1064
00:58:12,280 --> 00:58:14,480
Speaker 2: up old men in order to scare villagers to give

1065
00:58:14,560 --> 00:58:17,760
Speaker 2: their grain to the government like you do. So fifty

1066
00:58:17,840 --> 00:58:20,080
Speaker 2: thousand people got together to fight the Bolsheviks and the

1067
00:58:20,120 --> 00:58:23,760
Speaker 2: whites alike. This spread. By January nineteen twenty one, there

1068
00:58:23,800 --> 00:58:26,320
Speaker 2: were seventy thousand people fighting back the Communists to defend

1069
00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:30,120
Speaker 2: their territory, demanding regional autonomy. It took one hundred thousand

1070
00:58:30,120 --> 00:58:32,760
Speaker 2: Red Army soldiers and a fuck ton of chemical weapons

1071
00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:37,160
Speaker 2: and taking hossages Chris to put that rebellion down. In

1072
00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:40,080
Speaker 2: the end of that rebellion, two hundred and forty thousand

1073
00:58:40,080 --> 00:58:42,160
Speaker 2: people died, most of them noncombatants.

1074
00:58:42,280 --> 00:58:43,880
Speaker 3: God.

1075
00:58:45,160 --> 00:58:48,200
Speaker 2: The final battles against the White Army happened in November

1076
00:58:48,280 --> 00:58:52,840
Speaker 2: nineteen twenty at least in Ukraine, I don't remember elsewhere.

1077
00:58:53,920 --> 00:58:56,840
Speaker 2: After that, the Red Army summoned Makno and the other

1078
00:58:56,920 --> 00:59:01,080
Speaker 2: Ukrainian anarchist commanders to a meeting, and Makno's like, that

1079
00:59:01,160 --> 00:59:02,960
Speaker 2: sounds like a trap. Remember how you tried to kill

1080
00:59:03,000 --> 00:59:07,480
Speaker 2: me last year. Yeah, So he didn't go. Everyone who

1081
00:59:07,480 --> 00:59:12,520
Speaker 2: did go was murdered by the Cheka. Then the Red

1082
00:59:12,600 --> 00:59:15,600
Speaker 2: Army did a sneak attack invasion of the anarchist country,

1083
00:59:15,600 --> 00:59:17,520
Speaker 2: despite the state and revolution saying that everyone has a

1084
00:59:17,600 --> 00:59:20,560
Speaker 2: right to secede, but their own troops kept deserting to

1085
00:59:20,640 --> 00:59:24,760
Speaker 2: join the anarchists, which is pretty cool. But after ten

1086
00:59:24,800 --> 00:59:27,840
Speaker 2: months of battle, the Red Army defeated the Black Army.

1087
00:59:28,280 --> 00:59:30,840
Speaker 2: Makhno himself was injured, but made his way across the

1088
00:59:30,880 --> 00:59:34,360
Speaker 2: River de Nestere into Romania in August nineteen twenty one.

1089
00:59:36,120 --> 00:59:38,840
Speaker 2: And that's how we'll leave it for the week. The

1090
00:59:38,840 --> 00:59:41,240
Speaker 2: Bolsheviks have just won the civil war by using and

1091
00:59:41,280 --> 00:59:44,200
Speaker 2: betraying their allies and using and betraying the working class.

1092
00:59:44,680 --> 00:59:47,920
Speaker 2: A middle class intellectual vanguard pretending to speak for the workers,

1093
00:59:48,040 --> 00:59:51,600
Speaker 2: used them to gain power, and then instituted themselves as

1094
00:59:51,640 --> 00:59:55,400
Speaker 2: the new ruling class to be obeyed. Absolutely war communism,

1095
00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:58,240
Speaker 2: and everything was for the state. No trade between city

1096
00:59:58,280 --> 01:00:04,280
Speaker 2: and countryside, no freedom whatso ever. What will happen, Well, spoiler,

1097
01:00:04,800 --> 01:00:07,520
Speaker 2: the last heart in revolutionaries, both striking workers and well

1098
01:00:07,600 --> 01:00:10,640
Speaker 2: armed soldiers will make a noble and doomed stand on

1099
01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:15,240
Speaker 2: the ice, well behind the ice, at the fortress of Kronstadt.

1100
01:00:15,880 --> 01:00:18,200
Speaker 2: It will be beautiful, it will be short lived, it

1101
01:00:18,240 --> 01:00:21,080
Speaker 2: will be doomed. It will be the Cronchat rebellion, the

1102
01:00:21,120 --> 01:00:23,840
Speaker 2: whole reason we're doing all these episodes, and we'll talk

1103
01:00:23,880 --> 01:00:25,360
Speaker 2: about it next week.

1104
01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:30,320
Speaker 3: I wanted to do a woo, but this is just

1105
01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:32,200
Speaker 3: a this is this is a this is this is

1106
01:00:32,200 --> 01:00:35,520
Speaker 3: that I know eis this is a this is Oh god,

1107
01:00:35,600 --> 01:00:41,160
Speaker 3: I've been I've been secretly summoned into a Bastard's episode.

1108
01:00:41,520 --> 01:00:41,800
Speaker 3: I know.

1109
01:00:41,840 --> 01:00:44,440
Speaker 2: And it's like, because I I want to do a

1110
01:00:44,440 --> 01:00:46,720
Speaker 2: lot more stuff around this period. And I was like

1111
01:00:46,800 --> 01:00:49,520
Speaker 2: both the readers and also I just needed to get

1112
01:00:49,520 --> 01:00:51,560
Speaker 2: way more background because I've read a ton of books

1113
01:00:51,600 --> 01:00:54,520
Speaker 2: about Ukrainian anarchism, but I hadn't read a ton of

1114
01:00:54,520 --> 01:00:57,360
Speaker 2: books about the Russian Civil War and the revolutions, and

1115
01:00:57,400 --> 01:01:02,280
Speaker 2: so like I believe in con text, you know, Oh

1116
01:01:02,320 --> 01:01:05,040
Speaker 2: really yeah, so this is really just I'm doing six

1117
01:01:05,080 --> 01:01:07,000
Speaker 2: parts of context so I can finally start talking about

1118
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:07,720
Speaker 2: these other things.

1119
01:01:08,680 --> 01:01:12,120
Speaker 1: I just really want to know if you have had

1120
01:01:12,120 --> 01:01:13,400
Speaker 1: a sugar crash yet.

1121
01:01:13,960 --> 01:01:18,080
Speaker 2: No, no, I don't understand why. It's a whole new me.

1122
01:01:18,240 --> 01:01:21,760
Speaker 2: I'm never going back. You can't make me go back, Magpie.

1123
01:01:21,960 --> 01:01:27,200
Speaker 2: I'm taking over pure sugar Land. Okay, what happened was.

1124
01:01:27,800 --> 01:01:29,600
Speaker 2: I was driving a lot this last weekend. And I

1125
01:01:29,600 --> 01:01:32,360
Speaker 2: don't normally consume caffeine because I'm a different version of XVX,

1126
01:01:32,360 --> 01:01:34,320
Speaker 2: where I do drink alcohol, but I don't drink caffeine.

1127
01:01:34,360 --> 01:01:36,200
Speaker 2: So I do also have one drug, just like straight

1128
01:01:36,280 --> 01:01:39,280
Speaker 2: edge people. But it's not actually a rule for me.

1129
01:01:39,320 --> 01:01:40,760
Speaker 2: I don't have caffeine. Ages don't do it. But I

1130
01:01:40,760 --> 01:01:41,960
Speaker 2: had to drive a whole bunch. I to wake up

1131
01:01:41,960 --> 01:01:43,480
Speaker 2: before thirty in the morning to go to this library

1132
01:01:43,520 --> 01:01:45,280
Speaker 2: and association assigned books for my new book that's coming

1133
01:01:45,320 --> 01:01:47,960
Speaker 2: out called A Sapling Cage. It comes out February September

1134
01:01:47,960 --> 01:01:51,960
Speaker 2: twenty fourth from Femruary Press. Yeah and no, what I

1135
01:01:51,960 --> 01:01:55,439
Speaker 2: was enjoying, okay anyway, And so I had to consume caffeine.

1136
01:01:55,520 --> 01:01:57,240
Speaker 2: And I don't know how to consume caffeine because I

1137
01:01:57,240 --> 01:02:01,040
Speaker 2: don't really understand coffee. So I got these cliff blocks,

1138
01:02:01,160 --> 01:02:04,040
Speaker 2: these energy blocks. This is not an ad for oh no,

1139
01:02:04,240 --> 01:02:06,600
Speaker 2: And they have like some caffeine in them, oh no,

1140
01:02:06,680 --> 01:02:09,280
Speaker 2: And so I ate some of them and then but

1141
01:02:09,320 --> 01:02:12,320
Speaker 2: they're basically just candy. They're just caffeine candy presented as

1142
01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:16,000
Speaker 2: like energy bar, but it's not even bar form it's

1143
01:02:16,040 --> 01:02:20,400
Speaker 2: like gel form and or like cube form. And then

1144
01:02:21,560 --> 01:02:23,480
Speaker 2: I found out that a bunch of the flavors that

1145
01:02:23,560 --> 01:02:26,480
Speaker 2: came in the box I got didn't have caffeine. So

1146
01:02:26,600 --> 01:02:31,000
Speaker 2: today I ate a lot of them. But they didn't

1147
01:02:31,040 --> 01:02:36,600
Speaker 2: have caffeine, but they had sugar. Oh no, And that

1148
01:02:37,480 --> 01:02:39,040
Speaker 2: explains my mood.

1149
01:02:39,960 --> 01:02:42,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, go run outside with Rintrough for the next hour.

1150
01:02:42,600 --> 01:02:43,360
Speaker 1: Just keep doing it.

1151
01:02:43,360 --> 01:02:44,360
Speaker 2: It's probably a good idea.

1152
01:02:45,520 --> 01:02:47,480
Speaker 1: It's gonna be great. Yeah, do you have anything you

1153
01:02:47,520 --> 01:02:48,080
Speaker 1: want to plug?

1154
01:02:49,160 --> 01:02:51,480
Speaker 3: Yeah? I have a podcast called could Happen Here? I

1155
01:02:51,480 --> 01:02:53,560
Speaker 3: just realized I don't think I've ever explained what it

1156
01:02:53,680 --> 01:02:56,000
Speaker 3: is in the last four episodes.

1157
01:02:56,920 --> 01:02:57,120
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1158
01:02:57,160 --> 01:03:01,640
Speaker 2: The one sentence thing is it's about things falling apart.

1159
01:03:01,360 --> 01:03:03,000
Speaker 3: And how to put them back together again. So it's

1160
01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:05,040
Speaker 3: a combo of the dystopia beat and the how do

1161
01:03:05,080 --> 01:03:08,680
Speaker 3: you combat the dystopia beat. It's a good Yeah. I

1162
01:03:08,680 --> 01:03:10,080
Speaker 3: have no idea when this is going to be coming out.

1163
01:03:10,080 --> 01:03:11,800
Speaker 3: Who knows what's going to be coming out on that

1164
01:03:11,880 --> 01:03:12,720
Speaker 3: podcast that week.

1165
01:03:12,800 --> 01:03:17,000
Speaker 4: We don't plan this forehead, but I do highly recommend

1166
01:03:17,160 --> 01:03:20,640
Speaker 4: the Agenda forty seven series the entire team put out

1167
01:03:20,960 --> 01:03:22,720
Speaker 4: that will be out by the time this drops.

1168
01:03:23,000 --> 01:03:25,000
Speaker 1: Go check that out. It's really important.

1169
01:03:26,760 --> 01:03:29,680
Speaker 2: Excited about that, although I'm nervous about it. I have

1170
01:03:29,760 --> 01:03:32,160
Speaker 2: a book it's called a Sapling Cage. It comes out

1171
01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:36,320
Speaker 2: The Sapling Cage, The Sapling Cage. It comes out from

1172
01:03:36,400 --> 01:03:39,840
Speaker 2: Feminist Press September twenty fourth, and it is the best

1173
01:03:39,840 --> 01:03:41,600
Speaker 2: book I've ever written. I've written a bunch of books,

1174
01:03:41,600 --> 01:03:44,120
Speaker 2: but this is my debut novel. I mostly write a

1175
01:03:44,160 --> 01:03:46,200
Speaker 2: little bit ADHD. I don't know if anyone who listens

1176
01:03:46,240 --> 01:03:49,120
Speaker 2: to my podcast could ever figure that out, And so

1177
01:03:49,160 --> 01:03:50,600
Speaker 2: I used to have a lot of hard time writing

1178
01:03:50,640 --> 01:03:53,000
Speaker 2: long form fiction. So I I've written a lot of novellas.

1179
01:03:53,600 --> 01:03:59,000
Speaker 2: This one's a novel, whole novel, and it's about a

1180
01:03:59,040 --> 01:04:02,520
Speaker 2: trans witch who fights against the enclosure of the magical

1181
01:04:02,560 --> 01:04:05,520
Speaker 2: comments that's not actually what is what it's about, but

1182
01:04:05,600 --> 01:04:08,200
Speaker 2: it's a I think magic is being enclosed and she

1183
01:04:08,240 --> 01:04:10,960
Speaker 2: fights against it. And you can pre order it probably

1184
01:04:10,960 --> 01:04:13,040
Speaker 2: in June. But I'm really excited about so I'm just

1185
01:04:13,080 --> 01:04:16,280
Speaker 2: gonna be talking about it a lot. Yay and everyone

1186
01:04:16,280 --> 01:04:20,840
Speaker 2: else can hear from me next week, where we finally

1187
01:04:20,840 --> 01:04:23,120
Speaker 2: talk about the thing that I promised you two weeks ago.

1188
01:04:28,560 --> 01:04:31,040
Speaker 4: Cool people who did cool Stuff is a production of

1189
01:04:31,080 --> 01:04:34,200
Speaker 4: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts on cool Zone Media,

1190
01:04:34,360 --> 01:04:37,600
Speaker 4: visit our website coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out

1191
01:04:37,680 --> 01:04:41,080
Speaker 4: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

1192
01:04:41,120 --> 01:04:41,880
Speaker 4: your podcasts.