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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to stuff

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Speaker 1: I've never told you protection by her radio and today

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Speaker 1: we are so happy to once again be joined by

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Speaker 1: the fabulous, the fantastic Bridgete Todd. Welcome Bridget, Thanks for

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Speaker 1: having me.

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Speaker 2: Always a pleasure to hang out with.

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Speaker 1: You, gals, Yes, it always is, and we know you're

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Speaker 1: so busy, so we're so happy we can make this

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Speaker 1: work even when the topics at hand are not so great.

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Speaker 1: But before we get into that loaded question, as always,

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Speaker 1: how have you been, Brigitte?

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Speaker 2: Oh, things are okay.

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Speaker 3: It's pride here in d C, DC celebrating the fiftieth

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Speaker 3: anniversary of Pride in DC. So it's world pride being

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Speaker 3: celebrated here in d C. So it's been a more

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Speaker 3: even with looming large figure who also lives in DC,

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Speaker 3: we're still trying to away to have a good time

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Speaker 3: here or something.

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Speaker 2: Things have been a little cheery. How are you to

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Speaker 2: doing it?

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Speaker 1: I think we're I'm doing I'm doing well. I'm going

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Speaker 1: to find a doctor, Bridget And this is news for me.

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Speaker 1: I haven't been to the doctor forever, but I'm going

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Speaker 1: to go. I'm going to take that Steph and also

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Speaker 1: I've just been having fun with.

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Speaker 2: Friends, So what has been keeping you from going to

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Speaker 2: the doctor. Just we don't have to talk about.

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Speaker 4: The way you started that felt like we had an

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Speaker 4: intervention with you or so NI any time, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: No, no, no, I just I think a lot of people,

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Speaker 1: unfortunately can relate. I haven't had a good experience going

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Speaker 1: to the doctor, and so I and I also wait

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Speaker 1: and till I'm like absolutely convinced maybe I might actually

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Speaker 1: be on death door before I'm going. But I've actually

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Speaker 1: had like two panic attacks recently that I thought I

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Speaker 1: was on death stoor and I still didn't go, And

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Speaker 1: I was like, this is probably a sign. This is

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Speaker 1: you should really you should really go and check and

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Speaker 1: make sure these are actually big texts. But yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: steps baby steps ahead.

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Speaker 3: And I have to say, like, nothing makes me feel

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Speaker 3: more like I am being the adult, grown woman I am,

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Speaker 3: like when I take care of the medical thing I've

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Speaker 3: been avoiding for a long time and I finally make

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Speaker 3: that appointment.

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Speaker 2: So just think, just focus on that.

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Speaker 3: How good you're gonna feel once you actually book the appointment,

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Speaker 3: talk to a medical professional. You know you're gonna be

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Speaker 3: treating yourself.

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Speaker 1: Right, Yes, I Thank you, Brigitte. This has been a

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Speaker 1: long time coming to be on this, but uh, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to do it, and I'm going to take it

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Speaker 1: as a positive. I'm doing it.

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Speaker 4: Hm, it's self.

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Speaker 2: Care Annie, Yeah, hold you accountable on this.

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Speaker 4: I like that this is like an intervention again. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: I think, Uh, for me and for doctors, it's always

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Speaker 4: the fear that I'm gonna go and they're gonna tell

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Speaker 4: me there's nothing wrong with me and I'm making things

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Speaker 4: up in my head.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 4: It's one of those things that it's like, doesn't really

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Speaker 4: make sense, but at the same time, but you know

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Speaker 4: the history of doctors and what they say to women

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Speaker 4: in general. You know how that goes. We know how

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Speaker 4: that goes.

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Speaker 2: Uh.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, for myself, is that actually nice day. It's

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Speaker 4: been a nice day for a few days. The rain

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Speaker 4: has stopped in Atlanta for a little bit. It's gotten cool.

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Speaker 4: I have a little mini garden, Bridget I have a

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Speaker 4: little mini garden, and I've gotten at least five cherry tomatoes.

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Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, very proud of this.

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Speaker 3: How it's so when having your own garden, it'll be

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Speaker 3: so much work and so much money and so much effort.

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Speaker 3: And you're like, oh, I got one blueberry.

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Speaker 4: I was like, I held onto it, took little pictures.

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Speaker 4: It was like, it is the cutest, most perfect tomato ever.

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Speaker 4: I will say it was a starter plant from Costco,

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Speaker 4: not a sponsor. Yeah, I love Costco. But I'm still

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Speaker 4: proud of it. I still feel like we did it

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Speaker 4: even though it was already kind of there before we

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Speaker 4: bought it.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I was a tomato.

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Speaker 3: Like those tomato plants don't want tom fool you like,

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Speaker 3: they're actually lay pretty labor intensive in terms of kind

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Speaker 3: of foods that you can grow on a small garden.

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Speaker 3: So you actually started with a high bar. So the

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Speaker 3: fact that you got any kind of thing that you

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Speaker 3: could eat at all, it's really you know, you should

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Speaker 3: feel good about that five.

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Speaker 4: So you know, I count that as a win over here.

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Speaker 1: I think that is a win. But this is probably

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Speaker 1: one of the most depressing transitions I've ever made, speaking

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Speaker 1: of not believing women. We do have a topic today

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Speaker 1: that is full of that kind of those kind of

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Speaker 1: tropes that we hear a lot, and it's a lot

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Speaker 1: to go through. So bridget what are we talking about today?

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Speaker 3: I have to give a pretty big trigger warning because

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Speaker 3: it is the Sean Diddy Comb's trial. As folks probably know,

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Speaker 3: he was arrested back in twenty twenty four, because currently

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Speaker 3: the trial is ongoing. As soon as he was arrested,

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Speaker 3: as soon as I saw the news, I thought, oh,

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Speaker 3: this is about to be a storm of like disinformation,

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Speaker 3: half truth, is online, gendered tropes, all the things that

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Speaker 3: we know kind of go hand in hand with this

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Speaker 3: kind of thing. And I've actually been following how this

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Speaker 3: has been playing out since his arrest, and so now

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Speaker 3: that the trial is happening, I feel like it's a

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Speaker 3: great time to sort of get into all of it.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and all of it encompasses quite a lot, and

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Speaker 1: I think for some people people that can feel kind

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Speaker 1: of like easy to dismiss because he feels kind of,

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Speaker 1: at least to me, like that was a long time ago,

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Speaker 1: that guy. But actually no, and actually it does matter

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Speaker 1: a lot. Can you talk about that?

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Speaker 2: Oh? Absolutely right.

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Speaker 3: So it seems like every day there's a new celebrity

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Speaker 3: wrongdoing story out there in the news. But I would

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Speaker 3: argue that this trial is more than this one celebrity

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Speaker 3: did something bad for a few reasons. One that it's

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Speaker 3: a colmb's is a very very powerful figure. Again, if

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Speaker 3: you're a younger listener, you might think of him as

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Speaker 3: a little bit of a throwback, but he is definitely

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Speaker 3: more than a musician. He is one of the most

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Speaker 3: powerful figures in Hollywood. His influence reaches far beyond entertainment.

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Speaker 3: From media. He used to have a TV He used

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Speaker 3: to be the owner of a TV news channel called Revolt,

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Speaker 3: which is still around, but they have My understanding is

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Speaker 3: that that Diddy is no longer at the helm that

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Speaker 3: had a pretty important partnership with NBC's Universal and Comcast.

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Speaker 3: He's very influential, involved in politics, used to have a

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Speaker 3: very sort of well regarded voting initiative, very involved in tech.

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Speaker 3: Fun fact is that he was when Elon Musk decided

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Speaker 3: to take over Twitter. Shawn Comes is one of his

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Speaker 3: early investors, and I was reading a book about this,

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Speaker 3: and early on some of the black leadership was like, ooh,

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Speaker 3: we're a little bit worried about how Elon Musk might

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Speaker 3: moderate racial slurs on the platform. And to kind of

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Speaker 3: quell concerns about this, he was like.

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Speaker 2: Elon Musk was like, oh, well, do you know Diddy

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Speaker 2: Puff and I are personal friends. We text a lot.

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Speaker 3: Kind of like doing the I have a black friend,

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Speaker 3: and that black friend is Shawn Combs, right, and so

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Speaker 3: I share that to share Shawn Colmes was this is

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Speaker 3: this incredibly influential person who sits at the crossroads of

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Speaker 3: all these different types of power that goes so beyond music.

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Speaker 3: I've been rewatching old episodes of the Real Housewives of

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Speaker 3: New York, like first season, second season, third season. The

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Speaker 3: amount of times that Seawn Holmes comes up on this

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Speaker 3: show about sort of well to do New York white

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Speaker 3: ladies who are all wealthy when they go to the Hamptons,

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Speaker 3: they're like, oh, you're going to the diddy party later. Like,

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Speaker 3: he is such a figure in so many different circles,

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Speaker 3: and that's clearly intentional, right, Like, that's clearly a way

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Speaker 3: for him to sort of become this powerful figure that

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Speaker 3: no one would ever believe these horrible things about because

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Speaker 3: he hobnobs with such you know, powerful wealthy people. And

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Speaker 3: so I would argue that this story with Combs, it's

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Speaker 3: really not just about celebrity scandals. It's really about power,

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Speaker 3: how it's held, how it's protected, and how social media

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Speaker 3: can really be used to shape the narrative and also

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Speaker 3: reinforce really harmful attitudes and tropes that silence victims and

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Speaker 3: then shield the elite from accountability when they do something wrong.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I have been reading about these statistics around

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Speaker 1: bots that are used in cases like this and just

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Speaker 1: building up this social media anger and presenting usually a

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Speaker 1: very misogynistic viewpoint to get people to believe like, oh,

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Speaker 1: this is the truth and this is what everyone thinks,

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Speaker 1: so you should think that as well. And this is

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Speaker 1: not the first time we've seen this in big celebrity cases.

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Speaker 2: Oh. Absolutely.

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Speaker 3: And it's interesting that you mentioned bots because there's been

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Speaker 3: so much reporting an analysis after the fact with the

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Speaker 3: Johnny Depp amber Herd trial about the way that specifically

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Speaker 3: bots were used in an effort to shape public opinion.

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Speaker 2: I would argue very successfully.

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Speaker 3: But again, that was another example of like a highly

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Speaker 3: coordinated PR campaign with this big digital component that was

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Speaker 3: really about sort of turning the public opinion against amber

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Speaker 3: Heard that really relied on these misogynistic tropes and really

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Speaker 3: kind of gave a platform to people who will take

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Speaker 3: any excuse to tear down a woman in public. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I'll be curious to see how the trial with Sean

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Speaker 3: Combs plays out.

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Speaker 2: I feel like the ways that we're.

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Speaker 3: Seeing this trial play out online, I would actually argue

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Speaker 3: that like most people have gleaned that Sean Combs has

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Speaker 3: done something wrong, Like it's not taking the way that

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Speaker 3: I think it used to take when people would sort

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Speaker 3: of have these online smear campaigns.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 4: It's interesting because cases like these have always had been rumors,

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Speaker 4: you know, like the truth is kind of insinuated from jump,

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Speaker 4: but you always hear like the rumors at hand. There

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Speaker 4: are things that have been mentioned. As a person who

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Speaker 4: was in social work, one of the things that we

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Speaker 4: would talk about often is when we see campaigns or

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Speaker 4: when we see trials that go into civil lawsuits and

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Speaker 4: everybody that like whole beginning jump of people being like

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Speaker 4: defensive and being like, oh, they're just trying to get money.

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Speaker 4: And I remember that being a thing for Cassie as well,

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Speaker 4: Like when she was spart coming out, She's like, why

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Speaker 4: didn't they go the police? You know that aged old

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Speaker 4: like really bad take on that ideal that it was

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Speaker 4: something really bad, he would have been arrested by now, right,

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Speaker 4: And it feels interesting that this type of case has

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Speaker 4: come into such a way that people are just having

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Speaker 4: to really question that conversation about like, oh, it's not

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Speaker 4: just rumors.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, there have definitely been rumors about this for

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Speaker 3: a long time. And to your point, Sam, like, according

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Speaker 3: to the government, the reason why shn Colms has been

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Speaker 3: able to avoid arrest for this long is precisely what

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Speaker 3: he's being charged with. That he used his influence and

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Speaker 3: his businesses and his power and his money to silence

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Speaker 3: victims and essentially engage in a sex trafficking, fraud and

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Speaker 3: corrosion ring. So the things that he is being charged

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Speaker 3: with these being charged with civil charges from mostly women

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Speaker 3: and some men, who are accusing him of a wide

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Speaker 3: range of sexual crimes, and five criminal counts, one of racketeering,

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Speaker 3: one of conspiracy, two counts of sex trafficking by force,

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Speaker 3: fraud or coercion, and two counts of transportation to engage

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Speaker 3: in prostitution. So those five criminal charges are what the

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Speaker 3: bulk of this trial is about. So basically, the government

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Speaker 3: says that Sean Combs has been using its business enterprise

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Speaker 3: to conduct a criminal sex trafficking and kidnapping ring, and

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Speaker 3: that he was using money and power to intimidate victims

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Speaker 3: and to cover up these crimes.

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Speaker 2: For a really long time. One thing that I just

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Speaker 2: want to like.

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Speaker 3: Say super clearly is that if there was one narrative

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Speaker 3: I've seen sort of being pushed in this trial is

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Speaker 3: that he is being accused of being freaky, Like, oh,

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Speaker 3: he's being like the reason why he's being on trial

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Speaker 3: right now is because of freaky sex parties, party gatherings

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Speaker 3: that he would call quote freak offs. But I want

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Speaker 3: to be very clear, he is not facing charges for

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Speaker 3: being freaky or having freaky sex or freaky parties, and

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Speaker 3: not for nothing. Everybody knows that real freaky people create

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Speaker 3: a culture of consent, so that wouldn't even.

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Speaker 2: Be what this is. He is being accused of being.

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Speaker 3: The ring leader of this like massive criminal enterprise that

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Speaker 3: involved subjecting people to a pattern of physical and sexual abuse,

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Speaker 3: according to federal prosecutors, and so investigators are saying that

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Speaker 3: over a span of years, Combs would apply his victims

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Speaker 3: with drugs and even resort to violence and intimidation to

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Speaker 3: force them into these days long sex sessions. He did

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Speaker 3: not act alone, according to federal prosecutors. However, no one

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Speaker 3: else has been criminally charged in this case. Yet, according

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Speaker 3: to the government, Combs allegedly had assistants, managers, and security

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Speaker 3: staff who would make sure that women and male sex

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Speaker 3: workers were present at these hotel days long sex sessions,

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Speaker 3: and that the hotels would be staged and stocked with

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00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:38,199
Speaker 3: supplies like lubricant and baby oil. Which do we remember

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Speaker 3: another man accused of gross behavior who also allegedly had

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Speaker 3: a thing for baby oil.

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Speaker 2: Where baby oi oil not go?

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Speaker 1: Yes, unfortunately, Hugh Heckner.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I'll take this opportunity to remind folks that

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Speaker 3: baby oial should not be used as a sexon lubricant.

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Speaker 3: And if you are using baby oil as a sexual lubricant,

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Speaker 3: it's no good for anybody. And it just it just

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Speaker 3: I find it so curious that both of these men

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Speaker 3: accused of sexual misconduct and sexual crimes apparently both had

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Speaker 3: a thing for baby oil.

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Speaker 2: I don't know what's going on there.

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Speaker 3: Somebody can write an interesting essay about what's going on there,

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Speaker 3: But don't you find that curious?

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Speaker 4: I wonder if it's like to me, I'm like, it

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Speaker 4: just seems like misinformation. They're inability to actually research what

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Speaker 4: isn't isn't effective and just go on this lorics look

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Speaker 4: at this like they accidentally sent stumbled upon it my mind,

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Speaker 4: like they are just like, oh, baby oil, Yeah, yeah, Okay,

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Speaker 4: this does it. And just for anybody who does use that,

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Speaker 4: go see a doctor.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I mean I use oil cleanser on my face when

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Speaker 3: I when I'm wearing face paint or sunscreen.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to think about what that does.

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Speaker 3: Internally, right, Like, no, not a good thing to be

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Speaker 3: used for sexual lubricant.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I feel like the best it's a sad spectrum

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Speaker 1: because I think the best answer would be misinformation and

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Speaker 1: the worst answer would be knowing that it causes pain

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Speaker 1: and or just some infantilizing. With the baby oil part.

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Speaker 3: That's also my thinking that there must be some kind

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00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:27,760
Speaker 3: of you know, association with baby oil, and like, I

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00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:29,880
Speaker 3: don't know, something is going on there.

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Speaker 1: Something is going on there, and it had been happening,

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Speaker 1: as Samantha said, there had been rumors, there have been

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Speaker 1: people kind of talking about what was going on here,

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Speaker 1: but it took some people speaking up being vocal about

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Speaker 1: it before we're finally getting this trial. So can you

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Speaker 1: talk about that?

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 3: So, the person who was sort of the main voice

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Speaker 3: at the center of a lot of what's going on

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Speaker 3: is R and B Singer.

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Speaker 2: Cassie Ventura.

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00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:03,800
Speaker 3: Was in a personal and professional relationship with Sean Combs

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Speaker 3: for over a decade, and her civil lawsuit was the

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00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:10,760
Speaker 3: watershed suit that preceded all the other charges. In November

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00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:13,960
Speaker 3: twenty twenty three, Cassie filed a federal lawsuit against Comb's

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00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:17,600
Speaker 3: alleging years of physical, sexual, and emotional abuse. Her lawsuit

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00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:21,440
Speaker 3: also named Combs's businesses so bad Boy Entertainment, bad Boy Records,

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Speaker 3: Epic Records, and Comb's Enterprises. After only a day so

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00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:29,960
Speaker 3: she came forward with these charges. It was like hours later.

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Speaker 3: They settled these charges out of court, but her willingness

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Speaker 3: to come forward really opened the floodgates for a dozen

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Speaker 3: other lawsuits against Combs and so Cassie's lawsuit alleged that

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Speaker 3: this was just the beginning of Combs's coercion and abuse, which.

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Speaker 2: She says I took over her life.

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Speaker 3: You know, Sam, you were talking about kind of rumors

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Speaker 3: and whispers. I'm a music person, I'm an R and

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Speaker 3: B person, and I remember when Cassie first came on

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Speaker 3: the scene, there was a little bit of a feeling

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Speaker 3: of you know, she had this one great debut album.

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Speaker 3: Then there was a very long time until she released

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Speaker 3: another album, and there was a question of like, oh,

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Speaker 3: it seems strange that her career didn't take off more

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Speaker 3: considering that she's in a personal and professional partnership. Was

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Speaker 3: one of the most important names in music. People will

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Speaker 3: be like, what's going on with her career? Well, this

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00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:18,000
Speaker 3: lawsuit really gives us a little bit of a glimpse

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Speaker 3: into what might have been going on, because she says

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Speaker 3: that her abuse by Combs essentially took over her life.

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Speaker 3: He would force her to take illicit drugs and force

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Speaker 3: her to participate in these days long sex sessions with

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Speaker 3: male sex workers, where Combs would film her and physically

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Speaker 3: assault her. The lawsuit said that when he would attack

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Speaker 3: her physically these this was often witnessed by Combs as

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Speaker 3: staff like employees of.

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Speaker 2: Bad Boy Entertainment, and she would scream out.

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Speaker 3: You know, there's a very compelling piece of testimony she

336
00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:51,800
Speaker 3: gave where she's crying on a plane and she says,

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00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:55,359
Speaker 3: doesn't anybody see this? And nobody intervenes, and so she

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00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:58,639
Speaker 3: says that that's basically what she was up against four.

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Speaker 2: Years and we don't.

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Speaker 3: Actually we have to take Cassie's word for it, because

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Speaker 3: we saw evidence of this with our own eyes. Earlier

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00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:08,560
Speaker 3: this year, CNN published footage of Combs attacking Cassie in

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Speaker 3: a hotel lobby. Prosecutors alleged that there was a male

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00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:14,960
Speaker 3: sex worker still in their hotel room at the time

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00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:18,800
Speaker 3: of their surveillance video recording. Cassie testified that this video

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Speaker 3: was shot in a by hotel security.

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00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:24,359
Speaker 2: Footage when she was in the middle of one of

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00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:26,160
Speaker 2: these sessions in their.

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Speaker 3: Hotel and she was just like, I got to get

350
00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:31,440
Speaker 3: out of here and left. And in this video you

351
00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:33,760
Speaker 3: see her walk out of a hotel room, hit the

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Speaker 3: elevator button.

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Speaker 2: Combs comes into.

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Speaker 3: The scene and really attacks her, knocks her down and

355
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Speaker 3: drags her back into the room.

356
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Speaker 2: It's horrifying to watch. So initially, when.

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00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:48,359
Speaker 3: Cassie came forward, Combs was doing exactly Annie what you

358
00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:51,840
Speaker 3: were saying, where he said, Oh, she's just lying, she

359
00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:54,680
Speaker 3: just wants a pay day, YadA, YadA, YadA. Well, then

360
00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:58,080
Speaker 3: this footage came out and he basically would I guess.

361
00:18:58,119 --> 00:18:59,920
Speaker 3: I guess they were like, oh, we gotta settle this one.

362
00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:03,240
Speaker 3: I can no longer pretend like this didn't happen. The

363
00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:07,119
Speaker 3: reason why that footage took so long to become public.

364
00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:10,240
Speaker 3: Was that Diddy allegedly paid off hotel security to keep

365
00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:12,240
Speaker 3: that footage buried until we saw it on CNN.

366
00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:16,160
Speaker 4: It was really interesting because I remember when Gussie first

367
00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:18,760
Speaker 4: came out with that lawsuit and there were so many

368
00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:22,680
Speaker 4: people co going and defending Diddy and talking about how

369
00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:25,119
Speaker 4: she was just all about the money and why she

370
00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:29,440
Speaker 4: doing this now that she's gotten like broke since leaving

371
00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:32,000
Speaker 4: him or whatever whatnot. But I too, growing up in

372
00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:35,840
Speaker 4: the R and B Era and the loving PDD and

373
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Speaker 4: the whole crew, Like remember when she first came out

374
00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:43,119
Speaker 4: with her first song and then watched her become his girlfriend,

375
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:45,480
Speaker 4: I guess. And then as I was really huge into

376
00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:48,880
Speaker 4: like making of the band, I loved Dannity Kane had

377
00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:51,679
Speaker 4: that first album, still remember it really well, and then

378
00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:54,600
Speaker 4: saw Dawn with that, I was like, wait a minute,

379
00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:57,080
Speaker 4: what's happening? And this was so freshly after j Low

380
00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:00,159
Speaker 4: that it just seemed odd. The timing was weird. He

381
00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:03,280
Speaker 4: was doing way too much, seemingly, and I remember thinking

382
00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:06,400
Speaker 4: Cassie was like, you're actually kind of good. Why aren't

383
00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:10,639
Speaker 4: you singing? Oh exactly, You're just now his girlfriend. Like

384
00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:13,280
Speaker 4: that was such an odd jump. And also seeing Dawn

385
00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:16,680
Speaker 4: because during that time, I remember there was a lot

386
00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:17,520
Speaker 4: of drama.

387
00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:21,960
Speaker 3: Yes, So I also watched all the iterations of Making

388
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Speaker 3: the Band and Don Richards.

389
00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:25,320
Speaker 2: Of Danny Kin.

390
00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:29,119
Speaker 3: So Danny Kane was the girl music group that was

391
00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:32,840
Speaker 3: formed in the third iteration of MTV's Making the Band,

392
00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:36,359
Speaker 3: which was a show where Diddy would put together a

393
00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:39,000
Speaker 3: music group and then if they worked out, they would

394
00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:40,679
Speaker 3: get signed to his record label.

395
00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:44,639
Speaker 2: And so Don Richards from Danny Kane.

396
00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:49,840
Speaker 3: I so before Cassie ever came forward, Don had been

397
00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:52,520
Speaker 3: speaking out about what a bad guy did he was,

398
00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:54,560
Speaker 3: And I feel like she was really.

399
00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:56,040
Speaker 2: Treated like a crazy psycho.

400
00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:58,399
Speaker 3: People would be like, oh, this woman is so difficult,

401
00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:00,359
Speaker 3: Like did he gave gave her a chance?

402
00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:01,600
Speaker 2: And this is how she repays him?

403
00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:04,960
Speaker 3: Like I feel like that's really how people framed her.

404
00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:07,920
Speaker 3: And I mean, well, we see who was telling the truth,

405
00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:11,720
Speaker 3: because down went from just speaking up about this to

406
00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:13,760
Speaker 3: having people tell her that she was crazy or making

407
00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:17,879
Speaker 3: it up, to testifying in a federal court during this trial.

408
00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:22,040
Speaker 3: So yeah, we see how crazy she was. Like obviously

409
00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:24,000
Speaker 3: she wasn't making this up because here we are having

410
00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:25,560
Speaker 3: a federal court court case about it.

411
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:29,479
Speaker 4: Aubrey also was painted as a villain, and she was

412
00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:32,960
Speaker 4: like at the very beginning and everybody was calling her

413
00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:36,719
Speaker 4: the drama queen and why the group failed was because

414
00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:40,680
Speaker 4: of Aubrey. But then like as again comes about because

415
00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:42,920
Speaker 4: she played They played her as the diva cache, they

416
00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:46,680
Speaker 4: played her as the over the top princess and big

417
00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:50,560
Speaker 4: villain in this conversation too, And she was the loudest

418
00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:56,840
Speaker 4: one before, like especially watching down being on on Sean

419
00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:59,359
Speaker 4: Combe's arms. She was like, this is weird, this is

420
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:01,520
Speaker 4: not cool. They did all these things, and it turned

421
00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:03,320
Speaker 4: out she was the only one that did not sign

422
00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:06,879
Speaker 4: the NDA out of the group. So she was very,

423
00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:11,159
Speaker 4: very loud about. She didn't ever accuse, but she was

424
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:13,600
Speaker 4: just like, this is not what you think it is.

425
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:15,159
Speaker 4: And she was really loud about that.

426
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:17,879
Speaker 3: She put out a thing in People magazine, And to

427
00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:20,440
Speaker 3: be clear, she was not subpoenaed or called to testify

428
00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:22,160
Speaker 3: in the current trial, but she put out a piece

429
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:24,400
Speaker 3: in People magazine, I think just a couple of days

430
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:26,240
Speaker 3: ago where she said, I have been speaking the truth

431
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:29,679
Speaker 3: about Diddy for twenty years, and you're absolutely right. The

432
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:34,840
Speaker 3: way that she was so easily painted as a delusional

433
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:37,480
Speaker 3: drama queen diva, and it's like, oh, well, we see

434
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:39,919
Speaker 3: who was delusional because one of us is going in

435
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:41,679
Speaker 3: front of a federal court right now and it's not

436
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:42,479
Speaker 3: Aubrey Hodet.

437
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:43,840
Speaker 2: Okay, right right.

438
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:46,159
Speaker 4: There's so much to be said in this case. It

439
00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:49,920
Speaker 4: was again following up the initial part was like they're

440
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:52,879
Speaker 4: all lying, they're just trying to pay. And Dinny was

441
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:56,280
Speaker 4: doing a kind of good job in painting Cassie as

442
00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:59,119
Speaker 4: that as well. I remember, like for the first like

443
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:04,840
Speaker 4: second until that video was released, people were like, yeah,

444
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:07,520
Speaker 4: this is another he said, she said, and she's causing

445
00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:11,280
Speaker 4: this drama again all these things, and then as it

446
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:13,520
Speaker 4: comes about and that video comes out, everybody's like, oh

447
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:17,520
Speaker 4: never mind, Oh never mind. And then you don't really

448
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:21,200
Speaker 4: know because they did settle that case out of court

449
00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:22,920
Speaker 4: and it was so quick and everybody's like, oh, yeah,

450
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:24,600
Speaker 4: she got her pay, she got her pay. We don't

451
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,600
Speaker 4: know what, we know, something's gone down. And then trying

452
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:29,639
Speaker 4: to figure out what was in that that was so

453
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,199
Speaker 4: even more damning than that one video that There's a

454
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:35,560
Speaker 4: lot to be said about what was in her testimony.

455
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:36,320
Speaker 2: Totally.

456
00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:40,000
Speaker 3: Her testimony has been heartbreaking, some of them, I mean

457
00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:42,600
Speaker 3: I and she's not the only person who's testified, has

458
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 3: been a lot of people testifying. But essentially, she says

459
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:49,560
Speaker 3: that she was forced into these drug fueled sexual encounters

460
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:52,080
Speaker 3: with male escorts. That I mean, the things that she

461
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:54,400
Speaker 3: says went on during these events, I mean, I won't

462
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:56,480
Speaker 3: get into all of it here, but it is well,

463
00:23:56,600 --> 00:24:00,960
Speaker 3: just call it unpleasant. And that importantly Holmes would film

464
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 3: this and then use those videos as a way to

465
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:09,240
Speaker 3: further extort her into complying. And so her mother, Regina Ventura,

466
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:15,440
Speaker 3: testified that at one point, did he essentially blackmailed her

467
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:18,919
Speaker 3: mom into paying him twenty thousand dollars. Now, mind you

468
00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:22,040
Speaker 3: Didny is a very wealthy man. You have Cassie Ventura's

469
00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 3: mother being forced to pay him twenty thousand dollars because

470
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,880
Speaker 3: he was angry that for a brief while Cassie left

471
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:31,679
Speaker 3: him and started a brief relationship with rapper Kid Cuddy,

472
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:37,880
Speaker 3: and did he a parent allegedly told Cassie Venturer's mother, Regina,

473
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 3: if you do not pay me twenty thousand dollars, I

474
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:44,920
Speaker 3: will release these TAPESA one of the releases.

475
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:46,200
Speaker 2: He said, was going to be on Christmas Day.

476
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:48,480
Speaker 3: So Cassie's mom and her husband said they had to

477
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:50,959
Speaker 3: take out a home equity loan to fulfill that payment

478
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:53,359
Speaker 3: to Colmbs because it was the only way they can get.

479
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 2: The money right.

480
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:57,560
Speaker 3: And so it is so not only was her testimony

481
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:01,680
Speaker 3: completely heartbreaking, you know when it comes to these sort

482
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:05,679
Speaker 3: of gendered tropes that were seeing play out online, the

483
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 3: way that people are responding to what Cassie is saying,

484
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:12,959
Speaker 3: it is also difficult because you know when people say

485
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 3: why didn't she leave, It's like, well, he was extorting

486
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,640
Speaker 3: her mom, right, Like we saw a video of her

487
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:22,520
Speaker 3: trying to leave and he physically attacks her and dragged

488
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:25,200
Speaker 3: her back into the room. So when people ask these

489
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:27,920
Speaker 3: questions of like, well, why didn't she leave, it's.

490
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:29,960
Speaker 2: Like I could, I could understand why.

491
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,120
Speaker 3: That would be difficult, Like he physically would not let

492
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:36,399
Speaker 3: her Sam. Cassie was nineteen when they met and Diddy

493
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:40,359
Speaker 3: was thirty seven, so she was a child when they met.

494
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:44,400
Speaker 2: And it's just it breaks my heart that she.

495
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 3: Cross paths with someone who was such a powerful abuser

496
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:53,080
Speaker 3: for so long. Like some of the testimonies she gives

497
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 3: is the way that he impacted her career, that she

498
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 3: would do things and say things just to keep him calm,

499
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:03,200
Speaker 3: because he basically had the power to blow up her life,

500
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:07,200
Speaker 3: her professional life, her family life, and so she talks

501
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,479
Speaker 3: about how she basically would say and do anything just

502
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:14,360
Speaker 3: to keep him from doing something erratic, doing something dangerous,

503
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:18,159
Speaker 3: hurting her family. One of the pieces of testimony that

504
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 3: I also found pretty compelling is that the rapper kid

505
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 3: Cutty at one point she briefly left Diddy and started

506
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 3: a brief relationship with him, and he testified that when

507
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 3: this happened, did he broke into his home unwrapped Christmas

508
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 3: gifts so we're under his Christmas tree, and locked his

509
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:37,200
Speaker 3: dog into a bathroom, and then shortly thereafter his car

510
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 3: was firebombed, right, and so he went to Ditty's.

511
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:42,760
Speaker 2: He believes Diddy did this.

512
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 3: He went to Diddy's hotel room to talk about it,

513
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:47,439
Speaker 3: and according to this testimony, he said that it was

514
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 3: pretty clear that Diddy was not going to let Cassie

515
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 3: sort of be free and have a relationship with somebody else,

516
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 3: and that essentially they broke off their relationship because Cassie

517
00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:00,240
Speaker 3: said it was not safe for them to truck, try

518
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:01,920
Speaker 3: to be with each other, try to do anything because

519
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:04,360
Speaker 3: this was the means that Diddy would go to control

520
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,119
Speaker 3: her behavior and prevent her from seeing somebody else. And

521
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 3: so yeah, when people get into this, this this, I mean,

522
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:12,399
Speaker 3: the trompe is really tired.

523
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,400
Speaker 2: As it is. But when people ask like, why didn't.

524
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 3: She leave, that's a pretty good reason why someone won't leave. Firebombings,

525
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 3: twenty thousand dollars payoffs from your mom putting her house

526
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:26,119
Speaker 3: at collateral for a loan to pay off a millionaire,

527
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:27,880
Speaker 3: Like I can understand why she didn't.

528
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 4: Leave, right, I mean honestly, not that I'm not saying

529
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 4: this is a thing, but like when people are dying

530
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,720
Speaker 4: around him, his like peer group, including his ex wife,

531
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 4: including a partner, including several other people. I know these

532
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:46,200
Speaker 4: are all alleged, and there's a lot of rumors about that.

533
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 4: Just that's enough. Even if the whle he said was

534
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 4: do you notice what happens to these people, whether it's

535
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 4: a threat or whether it's just yeah, bad karma or

536
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 4: bad whatever he wants to say, that'd be enough. That'd

537
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 4: be enough to be like, I'll stick around, It's okay.

538
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:04,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, I can only imagine how terrifying that would be

539
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 3: and the feeling of, you know, when she briefly was

540
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:14,440
Speaker 3: in a relationship with kid Cutty. She testified that Shan

541
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:19,359
Speaker 3: Colmbs told her that she and kid Cutty were putting

542
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:22,960
Speaker 3: themselves at physical risk by doing this, and he said, specifically,

543
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:25,960
Speaker 3: it won't be at my hands, but you will, like

544
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 3: something bad will happen to you. And you know, diddyou

545
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:33,240
Speaker 3: is someone who does have people close to him that

546
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 3: have met bad means, I'll put it that way, and

547
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 3: so I can understand.

548
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 2: Why this is how she felt.

549
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 3: I mean, that would be really, really terrifying, and so yeah,

550
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 3: it just goes to show that that trope, for so

551
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 3: many reasons, doesn't really apply, and it just flies in

552
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 3: the face of what we know about abuse. You know,

553
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 3: abusers often are using emotional manipulation, they're isolating people, they're

554
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 3: controlling their partners. You also can feel more connected to

555
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 3: your abuse because he's like trauma bonded because you met

556
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 3: him when you were nineteen a child.

557
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 2: Cassie testifies to that.

558
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 3: She says that a lot of the times that during

559
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 3: their relationship, when he would do this behavior that was

560
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 3: so horrible to her.

561
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 2: It was confusing because.

562
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 3: You know, they had been in a relationship for over

563
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 3: a decade, so she still felt affection and love for him,

564
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 3: and I can only imagine how confusing that would be.

565
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 3: So this kind of fear of physical violence or other

566
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:28,680
Speaker 3: forms of retribution, we know keeps victims of abuse trapped

567
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 3: in relationships. And yeah, Cassie speaks to the way that

568
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:32,960
Speaker 3: this was a huge motivating factor for.

569
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 1: Her, as we've been speaking to this whole time. Unfortunately,

570
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 1: this is not necessarily new, these tropes, and I think

571
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 1: a lot of women when there's a big trial like this,

572
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 1: we kind of brace ourselves because we know we're gonna

573
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 1: see these things play out. And now that we're seeing

574
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 1: kind of changing technology around bots and AI, perhaps it's

575
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 1: gotten intensified. But you also said some of it it's

576
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 1: a little a little different. So what are some of

577
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 1: these other tropes that we're seeing.

578
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, well there's a good old fashioned gold digger trope

579
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 3: which has come up quite a bit during this trial.

580
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 3: Combs's lawyer said this in his opening statement, quote, when

581
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 3: you hear from the witnesses who testify here, who will

582
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 3: tell you that they were victimized, and you ask yourself,

583
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:36,000
Speaker 3: what is your motive?

584
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 2: For many of them, the answer is simple money.

585
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 3: And so he referred to Cassie's civil suit seeking damages

586
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:43,959
Speaker 3: against Combs as a money grab.

587
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 2: The defense lawyer.

588
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 3: Then asked this question of the jury, quote, how many

589
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 3: millions of reasons is this witness swearing to tell the

590
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 3: truth and nothing but the truth have to lie. But

591
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:57,040
Speaker 3: you know, we've talked about this before. Cassie already settled

592
00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 3: her civil suit with Diddy.

593
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 2: He's settled. Like, she filed that suit by two pm

594
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 2: and by three pm.

595
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 3: They were like, let's just here's here you go. You're right,

596
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:09,720
Speaker 3: let's just not And so first of all, come on, now,

597
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 3: like you wouldn't do You wouldn't do that, You would

598
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 3: not settle so quickly if this was some sort of

599
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 3: a financial extortion situation. And at this point that civil

600
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 3: suit was already settled, So why would she continue to

601
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:24,600
Speaker 3: do this? If this were like all about money? That

602
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 3: civil suit has already been settled. And I guess that's

603
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 3: always the first thing people say when this kind of

604
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 3: thing happens is, oh, it's a money grab. In what

605
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 3: way are all of these people who are testifying making money?

606
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 3: Like one of the people who testifies is Cassie's former

607
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 3: good friend who said that, like, you know, many years ago,

608
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 3: did he attacked her trying to figure out who Cassie

609
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 3: was cheating with. I'm putting cheating in quotes because who

610
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 3: knows what was going on? And she testified that did

611
00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 3: he held a wooden coat hanger up to her throat

612
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 3: and was like strength her and that she when she

613
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 3: told Cassie about it, Cassie was like, oh, something big

614
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 3: of a deal, Like you're exaggerating what happened, YadA YadA, YadA,

615
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 3: and it ruined their friendship. She signed it, She signed

616
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 3: an NDA, and she was like, I never spoke to

617
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:12,840
Speaker 3: either of them again.

618
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 2: She in her testimony, she was like, I just want

619
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 2: to go on with my life. Somebody like that.

620
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:20,720
Speaker 3: What would she have to gain financially from testifying to

621
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:23,360
Speaker 3: what happened? Right, Like, she has not spoken to either

622
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:23,960
Speaker 3: of these people in.

623
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 2: A very long time. She signed an NDA. She was

624
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 2: silent for years.

625
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 3: What will these have financial impetus for somebody to blow

626
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 3: up their life by testifying?

627
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 2: Financially there isn't one.

628
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 4: There are others who have testified that didn't get anything

629
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 4: and are looking pretty ugly because we know when this

630
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:44,520
Speaker 4: type of trap, especially when there's a lot of abuse

631
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 4: as well as trauma as well as kind of like

632
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 4: the whole Stockholm syndrome. They become a part of the

633
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 4: problem as well, which is a whole different conversation and

634
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:55,800
Speaker 4: like a layered onion that you have to get into

635
00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 4: because there could be charges because of this. Of course,

636
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 4: there's probably plea deals for to flying against p Diddy

637
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 4: slash Shawn Combs, but the actuality is like when they

638
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 4: start talking about these are the things I had to

639
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 4: do for him, it doesn't look good, like there's no

640
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 4: reason to do those for themselves.

641
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 3: Yes, staf former staffers of Diddy who say, oh yeah,

642
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:19,960
Speaker 3: I remember him attacking Cassie physically her crying out, saying

643
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 3: somebody help me.

644
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 2: And I just looked the other way.

645
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 3: Who would be paying them to say these things publicly

646
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 3: if they didn't actually happen. Like the people who say this,

647
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 3: I'm so curious for them to finish the thought of

648
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 3: like being paid by who Who is the person who

649
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 3: was like writing the check? So they were doing these

650
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 3: things because they were on staff being paid by Diddy.

651
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 3: Who would be paying them now to speak up about

652
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:44,400
Speaker 3: what they did when these things make them look terrible?

653
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I also think it's interesting that Cassie's so young.

654
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 1: When Sean Combs met her, and we were automatically like

655
00:33:57,160 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 1: framing it in the way, she must have been in

656
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:03,440
Speaker 1: it for the money instead of thinking about like the

657
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 1: opposite side of it. We were like, oh no, she

658
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:11,080
Speaker 1: this like a nineteen year old must have been thinking

659
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 1: about this money though.

660
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 3: Annie, So I have like a perhaps unpopular opinion about this,

661
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:21,440
Speaker 3: and I will stand by and defend. I fully understand

662
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:23,640
Speaker 3: that a nineteen year old and a thirty seven year

663
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:27,920
Speaker 3: old being consentually together is not illegal if it's above

664
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,759
Speaker 3: the age of consent. But come on, now, what about

665
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,759
Speaker 3: a thirty seven year old man have to be doing?

666
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:36,319
Speaker 3: Like what would a thirty seven year old adult be

667
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 3: doing with a nineteen year old? Like, I don't care

668
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:40,480
Speaker 3: what anybody says. I'm not saying it's against the law,

669
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 3: but I am saying, like if my thirty seven year

670
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:45,920
Speaker 3: old friend was like, hey, meet my new girlfriend. She's nineteen,

671
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 3: I don't have an opinion about that. I fully understand

672
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:51,960
Speaker 3: this is it's not breaking the law. I'm still going

673
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,279
Speaker 3: on the record and saying I don't love it, and

674
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:56,279
Speaker 3: then that we should be looking at that thirty seven

675
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 3: year old man like what's going on that you're trying

676
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 3: to start a relationship with a nineteen year old, right?

677
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:03,800
Speaker 4: I mean he kind of proved what he was doing

678
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:05,720
Speaker 4: and it had nothing to do with love or being,

679
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:08,719
Speaker 4: you know, being so head over heels about someone. It

680
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 4: was to show off and show control, which is what

681
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:13,840
Speaker 4: he did. Like I remember clearly at one of the

682
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:18,480
Speaker 4: MTV Awards and her coming out again with Dawn on

683
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 4: Shawn Combs's arms and then being having to be dressed

684
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:25,439
Speaker 4: up in him, like showing them off as again as

685
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 4: if his property and being like, look what I did,

686
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:30,840
Speaker 4: like trying to change her image. I remember her initial

687
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:34,279
Speaker 4: video to when she was in her early twenties and

688
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:38,359
Speaker 4: being established with Shawn Combs, like how her so much

689
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:41,200
Speaker 4: of her change and it was him taking credit as

690
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 4: much as he was taking credit for these bands that

691
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:47,720
Speaker 4: he supposedly created in their images and making sure that people,

692
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 4: including the audience and including all of the crowd, knew

693
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:54,799
Speaker 4: that it was his ownership and that that's what he

694
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:57,279
Speaker 4: was the proudest of. And people took that as a thing.

695
00:35:57,320 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 4: They really were like, Yeah, yeah, he's the man, because

696
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:02,359
Speaker 4: he's not only this guy, but he can control these

697
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 4: young girls and he can get him. You know, it

698
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:07,239
Speaker 4: was played out and he was very proud of that,

699
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:09,879
Speaker 4: and we see that often in these kind of dynamics

700
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 4: in general.

701
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, So when this when the charges were first popping up,

702
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:17,840
Speaker 3: people found this old interview with the rapper Young Jack,

703
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 3: who was talking about being out with Cassie and Diddy,

704
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:24,920
Speaker 3: and that Diddy, according to him, jumped up on a

705
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 3: bar during a party in twenty eighteen and said, quote, Yo, Cassie, tomorrow,

706
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:31,960
Speaker 3: I want you to shave the side of your head,

707
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:34,880
Speaker 3: and that Young Jack says that he recalls being shocked

708
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 3: by this request. He turned to Cassie and asked if

709
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 3: she was were they going to go through with it,

710
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:41,719
Speaker 3: and Cassie reportedly responded, well, whatever Sean wants me to do,

711
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:44,839
Speaker 3: I'm going to do. And so as you remember that,

712
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 3: I mean, Cassie is a gorgeous woman. So it kind

713
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:52,759
Speaker 3: of I don't mean it almost weirdly backfired because it

714
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 3: started a trend. And this was like women were wearing

715
00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:57,720
Speaker 3: the half shaved head because it was like, oh, Cassie

716
00:36:57,760 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 3: looks so good, I'll never forget go into a hair

717
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,440
Speaker 3: stylist and asking for that, and she was like, honey,

718
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 3: you're no Cassie, but I.

719
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 2: Yeah. She was like, I don't think it's a good

720
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:07,880
Speaker 2: look for you.

721
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna She refused to do it, and so

722
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 3: according to young Jack, Cassie did shave the side of

723
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 3: her head and sent him a picture the next day

724
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:19,799
Speaker 3: to prove it right. And so the reason why he

725
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:22,359
Speaker 3: maybe wanted to be with somebody so young was because

726
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:25,640
Speaker 3: he was looking for somebody moldable that he could control,

727
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:27,920
Speaker 3: and then he could make a show of controlling like that,

728
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 3: like not just controlling her behind closed doors, making a

729
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 3: show of how much control he had over these things

730
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:36,319
Speaker 3: that are so intimate, like the way that black women

731
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:40,000
Speaker 3: wear our hair, Like that's a that's a very intimate

732
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 3: emotional thing, and I can imagine somebody wanting to make

733
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:47,000
Speaker 3: a show out of that. They can control you down

734
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:49,440
Speaker 3: to these things that are so tied to our identities

735
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:50,880
Speaker 3: and who we are, like our hair.

736
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 4: Right, I mean the whole I've got her name. She

737
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:58,600
Speaker 4: was the choreographer for making the band. They got into

738
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:00,800
Speaker 4: a huge fight, oh yeah, and then they had to

739
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 4: cut it real quick. But like it showed his true

740
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:07,239
Speaker 4: side and true characteristics of him being really controlling and

741
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 4: over the top with his anger issues slash control issues.

742
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:13,600
Speaker 3: I'm so glad you brought this up. And I have

743
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 3: to like, I'm a little complicit in this myself, because,

744
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 3: as I said, I watched every season of Making the Band.

745
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:22,719
Speaker 3: There was a time where it was iconic television. And

746
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:25,560
Speaker 3: if you watch that show, you remember that he made

747
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 3: the band walk all the way from Lower Manhattan to

748
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:32,440
Speaker 3: Brooklyn and back to get him a slice of cheesecake

749
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:35,279
Speaker 3: in the middle of the night, which, like, I've made

750
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 3: that walk, it is a long walk, and that when

751
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 3: they brought the cheesecake to him, he didn't even eat it.

752
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:42,920
Speaker 3: And I remember watching this and being like, Wow, he's

753
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 3: really teaching them a lesson.

754
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:45,759
Speaker 2: This is great TV. It wasn't great TV.

755
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 3: It was controlling behavior of a power hungry narcissist.

756
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:51,719
Speaker 2: And it's interesting to me.

757
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:55,239
Speaker 3: The way that these things, looking back on these things now,

758
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:57,239
Speaker 3: they seem so much darker. I mean, obviously I didn't

759
00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:58,600
Speaker 3: know what was going on with Diddy then, I had

760
00:38:58,640 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 3: not heard those allegations.

761
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:00,760
Speaker 2: I was in and You're high.

762
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 3: But the way that his controlling, over the top behavior

763
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 3: was glamorized and sold back to us as this is

764
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 3: how the industry really is like, these people who want

765
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 3: to be in the music industry need to understand and

766
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 3: get on board.

767
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 2: But the way that did he wants to do things.

768
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:20,960
Speaker 3: I cringe thinking about how I consumed that as entertainment

769
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:22,720
Speaker 3: when I was younger.

770
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 4: All right, and I had small hopes that I could

771
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:26,360
Speaker 4: be a part of a band. Maybe I could be

772
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:28,759
Speaker 4: I could sing, and I can dance and train like that.

773
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:32,759
Speaker 3: Yes, we that was glamorized to the point where you

774
00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 3: they had you watching it, wish wishing you could walk

775
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:37,799
Speaker 3: to Brooklyn for Cheesecakeman, this monster.

776
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 2: I'll do I'll do it, you know.

777
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:52,839
Speaker 4: With all of this in conversation though, and I've had this,

778
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:56,480
Speaker 4: I've had this specific topic with a lot of different women,

779
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 4: especially when it comes to like domestic violence and uh

780
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:02,360
Speaker 4: intimate violence when we talk about when it comes to

781
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 4: the racial aspect of this as well. I have talked

782
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:08,920
Speaker 4: to several different black women who are so strong talking

783
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:11,640
Speaker 4: about they never wanted to report it, They never wanted

784
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:13,560
Speaker 4: to talk about it because if they did, they would

785
00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:16,440
Speaker 4: put one more black man under a system that we

786
00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 4: know is going to be unfair from jump, like, there's

787
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 4: no doubt about it. But then on top of because

788
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:24,240
Speaker 4: when you look at the comparison of the white man

789
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:26,840
Speaker 4: versus black men who are going to be severely punished

790
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 4: and who is going to be the scapegoat of all

791
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 4: of everything, Like, there's this level of moment where they're like,

792
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:34,920
Speaker 4: do I really want to do this? Am I a

793
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:38,560
Speaker 4: part of the system if I actually tell the truth

794
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:42,239
Speaker 4: and try to get justice. There's a whole level on that.

795
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:46,000
Speaker 4: And Sean Combs has become like R Kelly too was

796
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:47,919
Speaker 4: one of those like, yeah, you're just doing this because

797
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:49,440
Speaker 4: he's black type of conversation.

798
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 3: Absolutely, and I feel that any time like a famous

799
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:56,719
Speaker 3: man end of sentence, but also famous black men especially

800
00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:01,160
Speaker 3: is it is a tough conversation because you know, I

801
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:04,920
Speaker 3: do think in the black community there's this attitude that

802
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:08,240
Speaker 3: we are supposed to protect powerful abusers because they are black.

803
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 3: And I think what they are what folks who are

804
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:12,839
Speaker 3: upholding is what they're really saying is that not that

805
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:17,160
Speaker 3: we want better for all for everybody, everybody dess better. No, No,

806
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:19,919
Speaker 3: what they're actually saying is black men should be able

807
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:23,160
Speaker 3: to abuse people with impunity the same way that powerful

808
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:25,480
Speaker 3: white men do. And that and that is that that

809
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 3: is the future that they want and so like that

810
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:31,719
Speaker 3: feels or looks like progress to them, and that's not

811
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:34,279
Speaker 3: what I want. I want a future where no man

812
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 3: is allowed to do this kind of thing without consequences

813
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:38,399
Speaker 3: and being held accountable. But I think that's what they're

814
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:41,400
Speaker 3: actually saying, right There is a I don't want to

815
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 3: get into a whole thing, but there is a famous

816
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:46,879
Speaker 3: black man who I cannot stand, and I have many

817
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:48,360
Speaker 3: reasons why I can outstand him, but one of the

818
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:50,600
Speaker 3: reasons why I can outstand him is that he has

819
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 3: a whole flew of sexual misconduct allegations in his past

820
00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:58,879
Speaker 3: and that nobody ever really brings them up that much.

821
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 3: And when I post about it on social media every

822
00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:05,200
Speaker 3: single time, there is at least one and usually more

823
00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:08,239
Speaker 3: people in my comments being like, well, Trump get gets

824
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:08,719
Speaker 3: away with it.

825
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:10,680
Speaker 2: You know, they like the Trump president.

826
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:13,840
Speaker 3: And what they're really saying is like, our guys, black

827
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:17,719
Speaker 3: men should be able to break the law and be

828
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 3: horrible without consequences, just like white men, and that it

829
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 3: is not a future that I want. That it's not

830
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:24,880
Speaker 3: what a quality looks like to me. That is not

831
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:27,200
Speaker 3: what progress looks like to me. And I think it's

832
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:29,799
Speaker 3: interesting that you bring up r Kelly, because it is

833
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 3: a thing that we see, you know, men who are

834
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 3: powerful who are also abusers. Oftentimes they are doing things

835
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:40,839
Speaker 3: that make you think of them in a positive light,

836
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 3: precisely so that they can, you know, create the conditions

837
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:47,759
Speaker 3: where they can keep doing things without accountability.

838
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:48,000
Speaker 2: Right.

839
00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:50,360
Speaker 3: In an episode that we did of my podcast, There

840
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:52,719
Speaker 3: Are No Girls on the Internet, we were covering Epstein,

841
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:54,680
Speaker 3: and one of the things about Epstein was that he

842
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:57,919
Speaker 3: would do these things to ingratiate himself in the upper

843
00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 3: echelons of the tech world, like making big donations to

844
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:05,160
Speaker 3: MIT's renowed Media Lab and other respected institutions, to shield

845
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:09,239
Speaker 3: himself from his vast crimes. Right, so Bill Cosby did

846
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:12,279
Speaker 3: the same thing. R Kelly did the same thing, did he?

847
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:15,240
Speaker 3: You know, he was known for this iconic white party

848
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:17,719
Speaker 3: that was like a who's who of a list celebrities.

849
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:19,960
Speaker 3: He donates to all the right causes. He gave a

850
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:22,839
Speaker 3: million dollars to his alma mater, Howard University here in DC.

851
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:26,400
Speaker 3: All of these things that are basically meant to shield

852
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:29,240
Speaker 3: him from being called out. And even his attorney said

853
00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:31,839
Speaker 3: this in a statement when when Cassie was first coming

854
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 3: forward with the relegations. His attorney said, Sean did Hey

855
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:39,360
Speaker 3: Combs is a music icon, self made entrepreneur, loving family man,

856
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:42,080
Speaker 3: and proven philanthropists who have spent the last thirty years

857
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:45,080
Speaker 3: building an empire, adoring his children, and working to uplift

858
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:48,239
Speaker 3: the black community. So basically, it's I've done all these

859
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:49,600
Speaker 3: great things for my community.

860
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:52,320
Speaker 2: How could I ever be an abuser? And I think that's.

861
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:54,719
Speaker 3: Exactly why they do these things, and so that when

862
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:57,560
Speaker 3: someone comes and says, he did this horrible thing to me,

863
00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:01,480
Speaker 3: they can point to this record of you know, philanthropy

864
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 3: and uplifting a community to say that, no, he did it.

865
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 3: That's exactly I mean, it's such an old playbook. It's

866
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:07,719
Speaker 3: exactly what his attorney did.

867
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 4: It's so gross because it is it's that whole level

868
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:13,920
Speaker 4: of like his good days outweigh his bad days. We

869
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:16,360
Speaker 4: just need to sacrifice some of these people for the

870
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:19,640
Speaker 4: betterment of the community. And that's been a thing everywhere

871
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 4: in the church, even like we look at the amount

872
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:27,920
Speaker 4: of abuse that happens within churches and within you know, priesthoods,

873
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:30,799
Speaker 4: they are so willing to not only do so they

874
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:33,560
Speaker 4: don't look bad, but they also because but they've done

875
00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:35,920
Speaker 4: really well and they've done good for the community and

876
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:39,600
Speaker 4: actually not remembering. But these are the underlying issues that

877
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:41,880
Speaker 4: this is who he really is, whether you want to

878
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:44,239
Speaker 4: believe it or not. The abuse and the control is

879
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:47,719
Speaker 4: who he is. He just has a great amount of

880
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:49,920
Speaker 4: money to be able to prove otherwise.

881
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:52,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean we saw.

882
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 3: It's it's funny that you say this because when he

883
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:59,000
Speaker 3: really when that video of him attacking Cassie from the

884
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 3: hotel surveillance put it came forward, he made one but

885
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:04,719
Speaker 3: before things is really snowballed and it was like, okay,

886
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:06,560
Speaker 3: this is there's nothing you can say.

887
00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:09,360
Speaker 2: He made one of those grainy videos.

888
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:12,080
Speaker 3: That a celebrity makes where he was like, listen, that

889
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:14,160
Speaker 3: person that you saw in that video, that's not who

890
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:16,239
Speaker 3: I am. And it's like, actually, was who you are?

891
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:19,000
Speaker 3: It wasn't your clone. Okay with you, homie, Like that's you.

892
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:19,880
Speaker 3: You do these things.

893
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:22,799
Speaker 2: We saw what you do. Like, don't try to tell

894
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:26,279
Speaker 2: me that wasn't you. You've grown this and that that's you.

895
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:28,920
Speaker 2: We see who you are. You've shown us we are

896
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 2: who you are.

897
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:35,240
Speaker 1: Yes, And it's also interesting bringing up the religious aspect

898
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:39,360
Speaker 1: just in terms of I feel like this whole idea

899
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:44,799
Speaker 1: of younger people. But women in this case can't. They

900
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:48,880
Speaker 1: can't control themselves, and men, grown men can't control themselves

901
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:54,279
Speaker 1: around them, and so really, whose fault is this? This

902
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 1: is like kind of another troupe, like literally the adult man.

903
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:03,880
Speaker 1: But that's something we see online is sort of this

904
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:07,600
Speaker 1: idea of like, oh, but she she was she was

905
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:10,400
Speaker 1: consenting though she kind of wanted this whole thing, or

906
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:11,160
Speaker 1: like she.

907
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:14,399
Speaker 3: Was fast, you know, And yes, I just I guess

908
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:17,040
Speaker 3: that's my sort of overall point is that we have

909
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:21,920
Speaker 3: all of these ready made tropes and excuses that are

910
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:28,839
Speaker 3: so repeatable that really, I mean, they just absolve men

911
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:32,359
Speaker 3: of their own behavior and I'm just so sick of it,

912
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:35,560
Speaker 3: and yeah, it just it has to change. And I

913
00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:38,880
Speaker 3: think that it's not surprising to me that we're seeing

914
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:40,720
Speaker 3: all of this kind of stuff play out in court

915
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 3: because did He obviously has hired lawyers to say these things.

916
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:46,400
Speaker 3: I get it, but we don't people don't have to

917
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:50,279
Speaker 3: repeat them on the internet. Right, I'm not gonna begrudge

918
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:52,960
Speaker 3: did He getting the best you know, lawyer that he

919
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 3: can to truck. You know, it isn't until we've been guilty.

920
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:57,600
Speaker 3: Totally get it, But that doesn't mean that we should

921
00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:02,040
Speaker 3: be giving credence to these tropes that are so gendered

922
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:05,640
Speaker 3: and so misogynistic that absolve people of their wrongdoing. I

923
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:08,200
Speaker 3: think that's my bigger point is that the way that

924
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:11,440
Speaker 3: these tropes are so easily and often repeated online whenever

925
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:14,839
Speaker 3: there's a high profile case like this, I believe it

926
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:17,600
Speaker 3: trickles down into our everyday lives. And so when someone

927
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 3: who's not an A lister like Cassie is accusing someone

928
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 3: who is not an A lister like Diddy of this

929
00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:26,000
Speaker 3: kind of wrongdoing, I think the same way that that

930
00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:28,880
Speaker 3: we're poised and primed to hear these tropes like this

931
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:32,200
Speaker 3: play out in a high profile celebrity case, it's going

932
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:33,960
Speaker 3: to happen in these cases that are not high profile

933
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:36,480
Speaker 3: celebrities as well, and so we should really when we

934
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:39,040
Speaker 3: hear them, we should program ourselves to check them and

935
00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:41,200
Speaker 3: then push back on them because so often they're just

936
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:42,800
Speaker 3: not true.

937
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:51,200
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, so many problems. Well, what's next with the trial?

938
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:54,840
Speaker 3: So the trial is ongoing, and according to Rolling Stone,

939
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:58,320
Speaker 3: Combs is already working on a pardon from President Trump

940
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:01,560
Speaker 3: if he's convicted. Several long time friends and allies of

941
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:04,680
Speaker 3: Combs have began making connections with Trump's team with the

942
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:08,000
Speaker 3: hopes of laying the groundwork for presidential pardon if Combs

943
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:11,720
Speaker 3: is in fact found guilty on the charges par rolling Stone.

944
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:14,200
Speaker 3: Combs's team is hoping to appeal to Trump by drawing

945
00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:18,240
Speaker 3: a comparison between their shared stories two successful businessmen allegedly

946
00:48:18,239 --> 00:48:21,120
Speaker 3: targeted by federal prosecutors in the Southern District of New

947
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:26,200
Speaker 3: York with baseless accusations of sexual assault. Combs and Trump

948
00:48:26,239 --> 00:48:29,600
Speaker 3: have reportedly maintained a friendly personal relationship for over a decade,

949
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 3: and just recently Trump was asked about this, and he said,

950
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:35,239
Speaker 3: you know, nobody's asked if I'll pardon, did he But

951
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:37,839
Speaker 3: if he doesn't get a fair trial, I'll certainly look

952
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:38,200
Speaker 3: at it.

953
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:40,439
Speaker 2: So I honestly, you never know, it might work.

954
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:44,880
Speaker 4: Oh, it probably will, Like I I just didn't he already, Yeah,

955
00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:47,200
Speaker 4: I remember correctly. There was a segment when he's like

956
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:50,880
Speaker 4: trying to prove that he knows black people. Yes, like

957
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:52,120
Speaker 4: I know buff Daddy.

958
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:52,680
Speaker 2: We're friends.

959
00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:54,080
Speaker 4: Yeah.

960
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:55,800
Speaker 3: Wouldn't be the worst thing in the world for Trump

961
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:57,919
Speaker 3: to have another name to throw out when he's trying

962
00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:00,719
Speaker 3: to say all these different black people you know, one

963
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:03,600
Speaker 3: of my favorite quotes, of his favorite quotes of is

964
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:06,400
Speaker 3: when he was like, I have a wonderful relationship with

965
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:09,080
Speaker 3: the Blacks, And I remember thinking, like, that's how you

966
00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:10,680
Speaker 3: know you have a bad relationship when you call that,

967
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:12,839
Speaker 3: when you call us the blacks?

968
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:16,920
Speaker 4: You know, Oh my god, sure am I trying to

969
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:22,840
Speaker 4: kill a lot of them? It's all good. Wow. And

970
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:27,360
Speaker 4: this is the saddest part is I feel like puffs lawyers.

971
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:30,919
Speaker 4: I keep calling him puff because why not is that

972
00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:34,880
Speaker 4: this is probably the best route for them going to

973
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:35,720
Speaker 4: get in a pardon.

974
00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:36,399
Speaker 2: Yeah.

975
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:38,960
Speaker 3: I mean, we could do a whole episode about this.

976
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:44,160
Speaker 3: Trump just pardoned to other reality stars the Chris Lies

977
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:50,040
Speaker 3: for tax evasion. I again, I think it's a good play.

978
00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:53,600
Speaker 3: I think if I were on Diddy's team and I

979
00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:57,000
Speaker 3: was being paid to ensure that he did not face accountability,

980
00:49:57,160 --> 00:49:59,719
Speaker 3: I would say, yeah, honestly, the chargest thing. Let's just

981
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:01,759
Speaker 3: let that play out. Let's take it to the top.

982
00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:04,560
Speaker 3: President Trump, I think, I mean, I honestly do think

983
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 3: if he is convicted of these charges, I would not

984
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:11,280
Speaker 3: be surprised if Trump actually did pardon him. Because Joe

985
00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:15,120
Speaker 3: Exotic from Tiger King has been begging Trump for a pardon.

986
00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:16,920
Speaker 2: He did not get that pardon.

987
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:21,239
Speaker 3: And I think that the thing is Trump likes the celebrity,

988
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:25,120
Speaker 3: the convicted celebrities who are like project wealth in a

989
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:25,600
Speaker 3: way that.

990
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:28,200
Speaker 2: Sean Kings does. Wealth and influence in power. That's what

991
00:50:28,239 --> 00:50:29,120
Speaker 2: he likes, right.

992
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:33,239
Speaker 4: I think he just pardoned the a sheriff in Virginia,

993
00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:39,719
Speaker 4: and his constituents are very pissed about that. They're like, no, yeah,

994
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:41,239
Speaker 4: part is like what you think you were.

995
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:44,560
Speaker 3: Of course he did, like he's a fellon himself. Of

996
00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:48,480
Speaker 3: course He's like, oh yeah, criminals people.

997
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 4: This is my consistuents, these are my people.

998
00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:52,520
Speaker 2: Yeah.

999
00:50:52,560 --> 00:50:56,919
Speaker 1: And I think going back to your point earlier about

1000
00:50:56,960 --> 00:51:02,040
Speaker 1: watching this show and seeing p Diddy at the time

1001
00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:05,480
Speaker 1: being like, hey, walk into walk this far with cheesecake

1002
00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:08,760
Speaker 1: and I'm not going to eat it, and we were like, yeah,

1003
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:12,240
Speaker 1: I feel like you could make a pretty easy jump

1004
00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:17,000
Speaker 1: to Trump being on the Apprentice and having that behavior

1005
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:21,680
Speaker 1: and being real terrible. And I was being like, but

1006
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:24,080
Speaker 1: he knows what he's doing, not me, but you know,

1007
00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:27,960
Speaker 1: in general people and now look who's president.

1008
00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:28,680
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1009
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:29,520
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1010
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:35,640
Speaker 3: I have long believed that the overlap between the rise

1011
00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 3: of reality TV fame and the rise.

1012
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:40,000
Speaker 2: Of political power of people like Trump.

1013
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:43,560
Speaker 3: That is, I mean, that's there's a thread there.

1014
00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:45,680
Speaker 2: I guess I'll put it that way. I totally agree.

1015
00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:51,560
Speaker 1: Yes, well again, we would love to keep talking because

1016
00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:54,239
Speaker 1: so many other questions come to mind, And I know

1017
00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:56,879
Speaker 1: you've spoke about this on your own podcast right about

1018
00:51:56,880 --> 00:52:00,560
Speaker 1: AI and how it's kind of yes contribut to this.

1019
00:52:00,680 --> 00:52:01,759
Speaker 2: Thank you for reminding me.

1020
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:04,239
Speaker 3: So if folks want to hear more about the way

1021
00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:06,920
Speaker 3: that this trial is playing out online, we did a

1022
00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:08,880
Speaker 3: whole episode of my podcast, There Are No Girls on

1023
00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:13,520
Speaker 3: the Internet about the intersection of Diddy, conspiracy theories and AI.

1024
00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:20,040
Speaker 3: Spoiler alert, AI is being used to turbocharge incorrect, inaccurate

1025
00:52:20,080 --> 00:52:23,560
Speaker 3: information and narratives about this trial. If you have seen

1026
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:27,359
Speaker 3: a story online saying that they played a video.

1027
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:29,600
Speaker 2: Of prints during the trial, that's not true.

1028
00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:32,759
Speaker 3: If you heard if you heard that Ashton Cutcher testified,

1029
00:52:32,840 --> 00:52:36,560
Speaker 3: that's not true. President Obama, Oprah, that's not true all AI.

1030
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:38,640
Speaker 3: Listen to the podcast for more.

1031
00:52:38,719 --> 00:52:40,320
Speaker 2: It is. It is truly wild.

1032
00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:42,520
Speaker 4: Oh no, it's going to be like a Pizzagate type

1033
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:42,839
Speaker 4: of thing.

1034
00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:45,720
Speaker 3: Yes, oh no, I mean, if you ask the Internet,

1035
00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:49,319
Speaker 3: every celebrity under the sun somehow is all in the

1036
00:52:49,320 --> 00:52:54,080
Speaker 3: courtroom testifying, and then no other like, no reputable news

1037
00:52:54,160 --> 00:52:55,359
Speaker 3: outlet is writing about it.

1038
00:52:55,400 --> 00:52:56,160
Speaker 2: Isn't that interesting?

1039
00:52:56,360 --> 00:52:56,520
Speaker 1: Right?

1040
00:52:56,600 --> 00:52:57,560
Speaker 4: And there are eating children?

1041
00:52:57,840 --> 00:52:58,080
Speaker 2: Yes?

1042
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:06,839
Speaker 1: Wow, well, thank you Bridget. Listeners definitely go check that out.

1043
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:12,480
Speaker 1: But Bridget, where can the listeners find you In the meantime.

1044
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:13,600
Speaker 2: While listen to my podcast.

1045
00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:15,080
Speaker 3: There are our girls on the internet and you can

1046
00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:17,959
Speaker 3: follow me on social media on Instagram at Bridget Marie

1047
00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:21,600
Speaker 3: and DC, on TikTok at Bridget Marie and DC, and

1048
00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:22,400
Speaker 3: on YouTube.

1049
00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:24,480
Speaker 2: There are no girls on the internet.

1050
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:28,000
Speaker 1: Yes, and please go do that listeners. If you have

1051
00:53:28,120 --> 00:53:30,520
Speaker 1: not already, if you would like to contact us, you can.

1052
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:32,879
Speaker 1: Our email is Hello at stuff Wenever Told You dot com.

1053
00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:34,560
Speaker 1: You can find us on Blue Sky. I'm also a

1054
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:36,759
Speaker 1: podcast or on Instagram and TikTok at Stuff I Never

1055
00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:39,239
Speaker 1: Told You, prost on YouTube. You have a te public store,

1056
00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:40,520
Speaker 1: and we have a book you can get wherever you

1057
00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:42,719
Speaker 1: get your books. Thanks as always here at super Duced

1058
00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:45,600
Speaker 1: Christina or executive producer My Ander, contributor Joey. Thank you

1059
00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:47,920
Speaker 1: and thanks to you for listening Stuff I Never Told

1060
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:49,600
Speaker 1: You Production I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my

1061
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:51,040
Speaker 1: Heart Radio, you can check out the heart Radio ap

1062
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:53,000
Speaker 1: Apple podcasts where you listen to your favorite shows.

1063
00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:03,239
Speaker 4: No Yeah,