WEBVTT - Heavy Metal Pt I

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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<v Speaker 2>What are your name? And welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh,

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<v Speaker 2>there's Chuck. It's just the two of us, and I

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<v Speaker 2>think we should greet all the metal heads listening by.

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<v Speaker 1>Saying, shwing, Wow, you ready for this one?

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<v Speaker 2>Huh? I am. I'm pretty psyched. I'm not going to lie.

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<v Speaker 2>I haven't been this nervous since maybe we did soccer.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I agree. I mean, we might as well issue

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<v Speaker 1>the cover the CoA for the entire two parter. We're

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<v Speaker 1>gonna miss a lot. This is about heavy metal, and

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<v Speaker 1>anytime you're doing a big genre like this, it's really

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<v Speaker 1>hard to satisfy everybody. So we will not name specifically

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<v Speaker 1>your favorite band most likely.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, yeah, there's a pretty good chance. We are

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<v Speaker 2>also probably going to walk by some amazing fact. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>don't call us stupid. When you email in to tell us,

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<v Speaker 2>just tell us be like, guys, get this. Yeah, that's

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<v Speaker 2>the kind of email we like to get.

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<v Speaker 1>That's the kind of email that gets read on the air.

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<v Speaker 1>It's like, Hey, I know you can't get to everything,

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<v Speaker 1>but you missed this kind of really cool thing. Let

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<v Speaker 1>me tell you about it.

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<v Speaker 2>Way to use a carrot rather than a stick.

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<v Speaker 1>Chuk So it is just really intimidating. I agree because

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<v Speaker 1>and I want to chat just at the jump here

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<v Speaker 1>about our metalness because I am not a metal head.

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<v Speaker 1>My metal experience is largely from high school as a

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<v Speaker 1>gen xer in the eighties hair metal.

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<v Speaker 2>So same here, buddy.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, that's good. So my top five metal bands, and

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<v Speaker 1>I've gotten since into like Black Sabbath and stuff like

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<v Speaker 1>that a little bit more. But my top five metal

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<v Speaker 1>bands look like this, and that tells you a lot

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<v Speaker 1>about what kind of metal fan I am. Sabbath number one,

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<v Speaker 1>Ozzy number too, okay, Motley Crue, then Rat, and then

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<v Speaker 1>the Scorpions.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh really, Rat huh they were pretty good.

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<v Speaker 1>Rat's awesome.

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<v Speaker 2>Scorpions were good too. That whole Winds a Change thing, Man,

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<v Speaker 2>that's a stirring song.

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<v Speaker 1>That's probably my least favorite. But those are the bands

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<v Speaker 1>that I love. I listen on, you know, I got

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<v Speaker 1>sometimes you get a free serious XM a couple of

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<v Speaker 1>weeks or whatever.

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<v Speaker 2>Lucky.

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<v Speaker 1>I got very addicted to the hair Nation channel.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, man, that stuff still plays really well.

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<v Speaker 1>It does. I love it, and I even like all

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<v Speaker 1>the kind of corny stuff from then, like put on

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<v Speaker 1>that White Lion song and watch watch Me Go to

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<v Speaker 1>Town that song. Wait, yeah, I love that.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah that is good. Yeah, I know all those songs too.

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<v Speaker 2>I would even take a little further and say I

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<v Speaker 2>like Dokin. Okay, I want to make a joke about

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<v Speaker 2>liking Winger, but there are some Winger songs that I

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<v Speaker 2>kind of liked, but like Far and Away and I

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<v Speaker 2>Will I Will die on this hill. The best hair

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<v Speaker 2>metal band of all time was Poison. I mean, no

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<v Speaker 2>questions asked.

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<v Speaker 1>Would you say Poison?

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<v Speaker 2>Poison? You know why?

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<v Speaker 1>Go ahead? What now? You tell me why, and then

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<v Speaker 1>I'll tell you what's funny?

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, fair enough. So the reason why I say Poison

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<v Speaker 2>is the best hair metal band of all time is

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<v Speaker 2>because they were highly talented, but they were also totally

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<v Speaker 2>in on the cheesiness of the whole thing too. You

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<v Speaker 2>think they did not take themselves too seriously. You can

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<v Speaker 2>make an argument that every rose has its thorns pretty

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<v Speaker 2>meant pretty seriously. Yeah, But I mean, like I want

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<v Speaker 2>action tonight, Yeah, nothing but a good time. Like those

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<v Speaker 2>dudes were not like trying to be serious. There's no

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<v Speaker 2>shout at the devil or anything like that. They were

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<v Speaker 2>just partying. Yeah, I mean they were the perfect hair

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<v Speaker 2>metal band to me.

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<v Speaker 1>You can't write a song called unskinny Bob and claim

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<v Speaker 1>to be like a serious band, right exactly. That's a

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<v Speaker 1>good point, Like Gasoline, you want to help me, that's

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<v Speaker 1>right exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, So what was funny?

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<v Speaker 1>What was funny is is at some point we're going

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<v Speaker 1>to talk about, you know, how sort of white male

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<v Speaker 1>most metal is. And Olivia, who helped us with this,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, was able to source some some women in metal,

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<v Speaker 1>including full bands, and she didn't find Vixen. I was like,

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<v Speaker 1>wait a minute, that was Vixen, And then I typed

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<v Speaker 1>into Google search female heavy metal or hair metal bands

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<v Speaker 1>and instead Vixen and Poison.

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<v Speaker 2>That's hilarious. You got that one wrong, Ai.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that was pretty funny. What are your top five?

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<v Speaker 1>Do you have a working top five? And not the

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<v Speaker 1>joke that you sent me via text?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah? So mine's actually changed in the last couple of days.

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<v Speaker 2>I have to say, Oh, it used to be time, wasn't.

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<v Speaker 2>I listened to most of my metal in like eighth

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<v Speaker 2>ninth grade, probably around the same time you did. I

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<v Speaker 2>was like Metallica just unquestionably is my number one metal band.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, I think and Justice for All is maybe

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<v Speaker 2>the perfect metal album.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I like that early stuff. I like to Ride

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<v Speaker 1>the Lightning and Master Puppets. That was good.

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<v Speaker 2>I do too, but I didn't like those until I

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<v Speaker 2>was old. Actually, within the last several years I started

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<v Speaker 2>listening to those two. I was like, damn, these are

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<v Speaker 2>really good too. It's just different. It's way less produced, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>way more you know, like it's just more thrash, right yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>But so that kind of goes to show you my taste,

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<v Speaker 2>Like I like Metallic as their most produced good album. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>So that's that's there. They're unquestionably my favorite. Black Sabbath

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<v Speaker 2>is probably number two or a close at their Heels

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<v Speaker 2>Nipping at their Heels as Poison, Okay. I really like Helmet,

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<v Speaker 2>which is the alt metal band from the nineties.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, I love Helmet.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, Helmet was great. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>I guess I didn't really think about alt metal, but sure.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, okay, so yeah, I'm having to include them this. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I think kind of a revelation, like I'm I'm having

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<v Speaker 2>to include alt metal here right right, I can't. Maybe

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<v Speaker 2>Anthrax would probably be number five, right, especially in eighth grade,

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<v Speaker 2>I loved Anthrax.

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<v Speaker 1>So not Iron Maiden. That surprises me.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh god, why did I do that? Yeah? No Iron Maiden. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm sorry. You're right, Chuck, thank you. I was even

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<v Speaker 2>going through my my Apple music folder still look to

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<v Speaker 2>refresh myself. I've got like five Iron Maiden albums in

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<v Speaker 2>there too, so I'm not sure how they got left out.

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<v Speaker 2>Let's say Maiden's number two then.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, that's great. I have been listening to the Iron

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<v Speaker 1>Maiden lately. You know, I was an MTV kid, so

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<v Speaker 1>I know that was my big influence. So I know

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<v Speaker 1>the Iron Maiden songs that had big videos, but I

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<v Speaker 1>never really dove in and kind of the same with

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<v Speaker 1>Judas Priest, even though I have gotten way more into

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<v Speaker 1>them lately and I think I mentioned I'm going to

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<v Speaker 1>actually see them later this year. And that was the

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<v Speaker 1>other thing is like I was way more into other music,

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<v Speaker 1>like in the eighth, the ninth and tenth grade, that's

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<v Speaker 1>when I was really started listening to like in Excess

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<v Speaker 1>and The Smiths and Ram and The Cure. Yeah, so

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<v Speaker 1>that was my jam. But like if you were an

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<v Speaker 1>MTV kid and a radio kid like you. You kind

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<v Speaker 1>of listened to all that stuff, but I wasn't the

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<v Speaker 1>one going to see those you know, I never saw

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<v Speaker 1>Ozzie live and stuff like that. Like those those kids

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<v Speaker 1>in my high school kind of scared me.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well they could be kind of scary. Yeah, I

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<v Speaker 2>think that's one of the reasons they were into it

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<v Speaker 2>for sure. Yeah. So just to update my list though, Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>Talk is still number one. Yeah, Black Sabbath or sorry

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<v Speaker 2>I remade, still number two. Sabbath is in there somewhere.

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<v Speaker 2>But there's a couple new bands that I'm like. These

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<v Speaker 2>guys are really good. Gojira, which is a French I

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<v Speaker 2>think they like they transcend a bunch of different sub genres.

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<v Speaker 2>So let's just say they're a French metal band and

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<v Speaker 2>they're very good. They actually played at the Summer Olympic

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<v Speaker 2>opening ceremonies. You remember the dudes who were like thrashing

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<v Speaker 2>when ye like standing on the bilink. That's Gojira. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>I really like Godflesh. I don't know how I missed

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<v Speaker 2>them because I was into industrial in high school too.

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<v Speaker 1>They're they're industrial medal.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I love them right, Yeah, And then I'm really

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<v Speaker 2>now into High on Fire. Have you heard of them?

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<v Speaker 1>I heard of them, but I don't know anything about it.

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<v Speaker 2>They're amazing, Okay, I like everything. I've heard of them,

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<v Speaker 2>and they're playing in Baltimore in mid August. Oh you

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<v Speaker 2>me and I are seriously you got to go maybe,

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<v Speaker 2>Oh I like them that much?

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<v Speaker 1>Now, yeah, you just you're being COI because you don't

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<v Speaker 1>want all the High on Fire people to be.

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<v Speaker 2>Like, where's Josh. All right, let's get down to business,

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<v Speaker 2>shall we.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Like I said, Livia helped us out with this,

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<v Speaker 1>and so she starts off with the definition from the

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<v Speaker 1>Encyclopedia Britannica, which you know, it's kind of silly, but

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<v Speaker 1>sometimes we do that because like it's kind of hard

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<v Speaker 1>to define metal, as we'll see. And I have a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of nitpicks with a lot of these bands that

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<v Speaker 1>I don't consider metal that are in this material.

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<v Speaker 2>But oh yeah, a lot of them. I mean there

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<v Speaker 2>are a few, but a lot.

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<v Speaker 1>We'll see as we go. Okay, all right, maybe you

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<v Speaker 1>just keep a time or a dinger or something.

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<v Speaker 2>Clicker, clicker there, there you go.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, But Britannica says it's a genre that includes a

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<v Speaker 1>group of related styles that are intense, virtuostic, and powerful,

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<v Speaker 1>and includes distorted electric guitar. The virtuostick really rings to

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<v Speaker 1>me because one thing like, there's no metal band that

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't have a great guitar player, maybe two, maybe three, you.

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<v Speaker 2>Know, yeah, no, I agree, And are you taking a

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<v Speaker 2>shot at me with the maybe three part?

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<v Speaker 1>No, not taking a shot like Iron Maiden has three.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they have three guitarists, man, and you can hear it. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>you can totally tell, Like, yeah, Maiden, it is pretty great.

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<v Speaker 2>We'll talk a little more about Maiden in depth in

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<v Speaker 2>a second, right, But I think you just kind of

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<v Speaker 2>laid it out there, like there's that's as tight a

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<v Speaker 2>definition as you can really kind of corral all of

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<v Speaker 2>metal into. Just because there's so much varied stuff. It's

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<v Speaker 2>like a really fractured genre of music. Yeah, there's subgenres

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<v Speaker 2>of subgenres, and there's probably subgenres of subgenres of subgenres.

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<v Speaker 2>Like that's how niche some of this stuff is. Like

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<v Speaker 2>if the average person came along and listened to you know,

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<v Speaker 2>some similar subgenres are closely really related subgenres, they would

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<v Speaker 2>not be able to tell the difference. Some of the subgenres,

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<v Speaker 2>like are pretty different, and the average person could tell

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<v Speaker 2>the difference, but when it gets super niche you really

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<v Speaker 2>have to be a fan to be able to be like,

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<v Speaker 2>oh no, this is this is technical thrash, yeah, death core,

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<v Speaker 2>you know.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, for sure. There is another little bit from

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<v Speaker 1>the Grammys, because now the Grammys has awards for this

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<v Speaker 1>kind of thing, where they mentioned dark lyrics that may

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<v Speaker 1>focus on social issues or fantasy and myth. That's kind

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<v Speaker 1>of important because I found when I was nitpicking and

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<v Speaker 1>these are just this is just Chuckstam opinion. But sometimes

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<v Speaker 1>the difference was very small as far as like, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>all the trappings of metal, but I still don't consider

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<v Speaker 1>it metal because maybe a very nitpicky reason, but you know,

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<v Speaker 1>if you're singing it's heavy gets are and you're singing

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<v Speaker 1>about Lord of the Rings, chances are you're heavy metal.

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<v Speaker 1>Except your led Zeppelin to me, is not heavy metal.

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<v Speaker 1>They're hard rock as far as I'm concerned.

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<v Speaker 2>No, led Zeppelin is always has always said like, we're

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<v Speaker 2>not heavy metal. We never have been. We're like blues rock,

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<v Speaker 2>hard rock, maybe heavy rock. I don't know, but they've

0:11:20.559 --> 0:11:23.079
<v Speaker 2>always said we're not heavy metal, even though like most

0:11:23.360 --> 0:11:26.640
<v Speaker 2>metal historians will point to them, at least to some degree,

0:11:26.800 --> 0:11:29.520
<v Speaker 2>is one of the founders or progenitors of heavy metal

0:11:29.559 --> 0:11:29.959
<v Speaker 2>for sure.

0:11:30.160 --> 0:11:32.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and also want to point out the Grammy's miss something.

0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:34.920
<v Speaker 1>They said that when they were focusing on the lyrics

0:11:35.000 --> 0:11:37.400
<v Speaker 1>dark lyrics that may focus on social issues or fantasy

0:11:37.400 --> 0:11:41.120
<v Speaker 1>and myth, they forgot or girls, girls, girls.

0:11:41.160 --> 0:11:42.559
<v Speaker 2>Right for sure, because hair.

0:11:42.400 --> 0:11:44.640
<v Speaker 1>Metal not a lot of social issues, not a lot

0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:47.040
<v Speaker 1>of fantasy, not a lot of myth. That was a

0:11:47.120 --> 0:11:50.839
<v Speaker 1>specific period in the eighties where they were mostly singing

0:11:50.880 --> 0:11:53.160
<v Speaker 1>about girls, and sometimes in a very gross way.

0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:58.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, for sure. I mean it's definitely the world's definitely

0:11:58.120 --> 0:12:01.160
<v Speaker 2>evolved past the hair metal view of the world.

0:12:01.400 --> 0:12:02.559
<v Speaker 1>Yeah for sure.

0:12:03.160 --> 0:12:06.040
<v Speaker 2>Still fun poison, still just wants nothing but a good

0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:07.439
<v Speaker 2>time everybody.

0:12:07.520 --> 0:12:08.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:12.240
<v Speaker 2>So we did talk about led Zeppelin. There's actually what's

0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:14.559
<v Speaker 2>known is the Unholy Trinity of hard rock, and led

0:12:14.640 --> 0:12:16.040
<v Speaker 2>Zeppelin's considered one of them.

0:12:16.120 --> 0:12:16.679
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I agreed.

0:12:17.559 --> 0:12:20.280
<v Speaker 2>And yes, no one's going to say, like, I don't know,

0:12:20.320 --> 0:12:22.960
<v Speaker 2>they're not hard rock, it's just are they Are they

0:12:23.000 --> 0:12:26.120
<v Speaker 2>heavy metal or were they just help helpful and laying

0:12:26.120 --> 0:12:27.920
<v Speaker 2>the groundwork for heavy metal? And like you said, one

0:12:27.920 --> 0:12:30.040
<v Speaker 2>of the things that led Zeppelin did. They were singing

0:12:30.080 --> 0:12:33.520
<v Speaker 2>about Lord of the Rings before, you know, before Orlando

0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:34.839
<v Speaker 2>Bloom was even born.

0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:38.960
<v Speaker 1>Right, Uh yeah, I mean there's a guy that Libya

0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:40.920
<v Speaker 1>found named Jack Mannon of the Metal Hall of Fame

0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:43.800
<v Speaker 1>who said that, you know, they have lyrics related to

0:12:43.840 --> 0:12:47.360
<v Speaker 1>the occult high fantasy like Lord of the Rings of War,

0:12:47.559 --> 0:12:52.600
<v Speaker 1>distorted guitar, a loud, long haired, you know, great lead singer,

0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:56.920
<v Speaker 1>and like again all those things is fair are fairly metal,

0:12:56.960 --> 0:12:59.000
<v Speaker 1>but I just I don't know, there's something about it.

0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:01.520
<v Speaker 1>They're just more hard blues rock to me.

0:13:02.040 --> 0:13:03.960
<v Speaker 2>For sure, And a lot of other groups from the

0:13:04.000 --> 0:13:07.319
<v Speaker 2>sixties you would kind of lump led Zeppelin in with

0:13:07.480 --> 0:13:10.280
<v Speaker 2>because they were all starting to experiment with really distortion

0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:13.840
<v Speaker 2>heavy guitar. Yeah, but they were blues rock for sure,

0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:17.839
<v Speaker 2>like Cream the Yardbirds, which actually like gave birth to

0:13:17.920 --> 0:13:22.319
<v Speaker 2>led Zeppelin, it turns out. Yeah, Jimmy Hendrix was another one. Yeah,

0:13:22.360 --> 0:13:26.480
<v Speaker 2>he has a metal tie in though. Lemmy Killmeister was

0:13:26.480 --> 0:13:29.200
<v Speaker 2>a roadie for Jimmy Hendrix before he went on to

0:13:29.280 --> 0:13:30.760
<v Speaker 2>found the band Motorhead.

0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:33.600
<v Speaker 1>I was today years old, did not know that?

0:13:34.000 --> 0:13:35.040
<v Speaker 2>Isn't that a great little fact?

0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:36.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah? That's really great.

0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:38.280
<v Speaker 2>Man, can you imagine those two together on acid?

0:13:38.440 --> 0:13:44.800
<v Speaker 1>No? Yes, Actually, Deep Purple is the second of the

0:13:44.880 --> 0:13:47.960
<v Speaker 1>Unholy Trinity of Rock. They were formed the nineteen sixty eight,

0:13:49.280 --> 0:13:51.560
<v Speaker 1>but again a little more like prog rock to me.

0:13:54.120 --> 0:13:56.760
<v Speaker 1>I think by their fourth album, which was Deep Purple

0:13:56.840 --> 0:13:59.360
<v Speaker 1>in rock is when they replaced their singer with a

0:13:59.400 --> 0:14:02.160
<v Speaker 1>guy named Ian Yllen and their basis with a guy

0:14:02.240 --> 0:14:06.000
<v Speaker 1>named Roger Glover. They got a little heavier then. But

0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:10.000
<v Speaker 1>you know, they they might be classified as a proto

0:14:10.040 --> 0:14:13.280
<v Speaker 1>metal because of their guitar player, Richie Blackmore, who was

0:14:13.320 --> 0:14:15.960
<v Speaker 1>a legend who went over to be He went on

0:14:16.000 --> 0:14:18.280
<v Speaker 1>to be the to form the band Rainbow, which was

0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:19.520
<v Speaker 1>definitely metal.

0:14:20.200 --> 0:14:22.840
<v Speaker 2>Is it. I've seen people say no, it's definitely hard rock,

0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:24.920
<v Speaker 2>because I was like, no, this sounds a lot like

0:14:24.960 --> 0:14:26.320
<v Speaker 2>metal to me. I like them.

0:14:26.520 --> 0:14:28.720
<v Speaker 1>I thought Rainbow was metal. But again, these are just

0:14:28.800 --> 0:14:30.880
<v Speaker 1>our nitpicking definitions.

0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:33.080
<v Speaker 2>But that's a good I mean, that's a good point.

0:14:33.120 --> 0:14:36.040
<v Speaker 2>That's a good demonstration, like you can really get metal

0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:40.240
<v Speaker 2>fans arguing by just saying confidently, like no, Rainbow's metal.

0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:42.880
<v Speaker 2>People will start arguing with you, for sure.

0:14:43.120 --> 0:14:46.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And then Sabbath comes along and to me, they're

0:14:46.440 --> 0:14:48.400
<v Speaker 1>very much sort of the birth of metal, And I

0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:50.120
<v Speaker 1>think a lot of that has to do like the

0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:52.160
<v Speaker 1>difference between them and led Zeppelin. To me, even though

0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:55.640
<v Speaker 1>there are a lot of similarities, is Ozzie's voice was

0:14:56.280 --> 0:14:59.360
<v Speaker 1>just he had a very sinister, kind of creepy sounding voice,

0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:02.640
<v Speaker 1>and their music just sounded more sinister than led Zeppelin.

0:15:02.600 --> 0:15:05.200
<v Speaker 2>And that just sounded like they were like the stuff

0:15:05.240 --> 0:15:08.920
<v Speaker 2>they sang about. Yeah, especially today, you're like, yeah, that's metal.

0:15:09.360 --> 0:15:13.280
<v Speaker 2>But when you look back at what the time they

0:15:13.280 --> 0:15:16.200
<v Speaker 2>were coming out of, we're talking like the free love,

0:15:16.800 --> 0:15:20.400
<v Speaker 2>hippie sixties. Oh yeah, they came right out of that.

0:15:20.600 --> 0:15:24.000
<v Speaker 2>And so a lot of people point to Black Sabbath

0:15:24.080 --> 0:15:26.120
<v Speaker 2>not just as like the birth of heavy metal, but

0:15:26.160 --> 0:15:29.160
<v Speaker 2>the end of the sixties, like the thing that said like, hey,

0:15:29.160 --> 0:15:32.520
<v Speaker 2>we're going in a much different direction and it's not

0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:35.320
<v Speaker 2>nearly as pleasant and colorful as you guys have been

0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:36.040
<v Speaker 2>taking things.

0:15:36.200 --> 0:15:39.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, for sure, of course we're talking about the dearly departed,

0:15:39.960 --> 0:15:44.680
<v Speaker 1>recently departed Ozzy Osbourne. Yeah, rip Tony Iomi guitar player

0:15:44.760 --> 0:15:47.240
<v Speaker 1>Geezer Butler was a bassis in bill Ward on drums,

0:15:47.960 --> 0:15:51.320
<v Speaker 1>and they were originally a blues band called Earth Blues Company.

0:15:52.360 --> 0:15:55.800
<v Speaker 1>Eventually you become Earth only Earth or from Birmingham, England.

0:15:55.840 --> 0:15:58.960
<v Speaker 1>As you'll see, that'll be a recurring motif here. And

0:15:59.360 --> 0:16:02.200
<v Speaker 1>the name Black Sabbath came from the fact that it

0:16:02.240 --> 0:16:03.480
<v Speaker 1>sounds like Geezer Butler.

0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:04.440
<v Speaker 2>Again.

0:16:04.520 --> 0:16:08.120
<v Speaker 1>Their bass player had sleep paralysis.

0:16:08.920 --> 0:16:10.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it does sound like that, doesn't it.

0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:11.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, what happened?

0:16:11.960 --> 0:16:14.600
<v Speaker 2>He dreamt that there was a dark figure standing at

0:16:14.600 --> 0:16:16.720
<v Speaker 2>the foot of his bed, and so he wrote a song.

0:16:17.400 --> 0:16:19.800
<v Speaker 2>They named it. He wrote a song about that, and

0:16:19.840 --> 0:16:22.600
<v Speaker 2>they named it Black Sabbath. And the Black Sabbath is

0:16:22.640 --> 0:16:26.560
<v Speaker 2>taken from a Bors Karloff movie about a talking boat

0:16:26.560 --> 0:16:29.800
<v Speaker 2>that wins a regatta for a group of orphans. Karloff

0:16:29.840 --> 0:16:33.600
<v Speaker 2>does the voice of the boat. And they ended up

0:16:33.600 --> 0:16:37.600
<v Speaker 2>having to change their name because some other band was like,

0:16:37.640 --> 0:16:40.320
<v Speaker 2>hey man, we're Earth, and then I'm sure another band

0:16:40.360 --> 0:16:42.160
<v Speaker 2>was like, no, we're Earth, and then it just kept

0:16:42.200 --> 0:16:45.040
<v Speaker 2>going on from there. Either way. Sabbath saw the writing

0:16:45.080 --> 0:16:47.360
<v Speaker 2>on the wall, so they were like, well, our favorite

0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:49.720
<v Speaker 2>song in the song that everybody like, so Mosta's Black Sabbath.

0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:53.160
<v Speaker 2>Let's just call ourselves that. So their debut album was

0:16:53.200 --> 0:16:57.720
<v Speaker 2>Black Sabbath by Black Sabbath, featuring the song Black Sabbath.

0:16:57.800 --> 0:16:58.960
<v Speaker 2>They were one of those.

0:16:59.000 --> 0:17:02.080
<v Speaker 1>That's right, and they you know, I'm gonna sort of

0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:05.240
<v Speaker 1>pepper in some you know, rolling Stone ticket for what

0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:06.760
<v Speaker 1>it's worth. But they have a list of their top

0:17:06.760 --> 0:17:10.560
<v Speaker 1>one hundred metal bands, and fun fact, either Ozzi or

0:17:10.600 --> 0:17:14.080
<v Speaker 1>Saba or I'm sorry metal albums, either Ozzie or Sabbath

0:17:14.160 --> 0:17:15.880
<v Speaker 1>have four of the top fifteen.

0:17:16.320 --> 0:17:19.080
<v Speaker 2>Not bad, not bad at all. No, Ozzy's definitely a

0:17:19.080 --> 0:17:23.760
<v Speaker 2>medal god. Which is interesting because Black Sabbath as a band,

0:17:24.200 --> 0:17:26.879
<v Speaker 2>just like led Zeppelin, it said we're not heavy metal,

0:17:26.920 --> 0:17:29.520
<v Speaker 2>or we weren't heavy metal, right, it's not what we were.

0:17:29.880 --> 0:17:32.560
<v Speaker 2>And again most people are like you you are sorry

0:17:32.600 --> 0:17:34.240
<v Speaker 2>to well, you're definitely metal.

0:17:34.400 --> 0:17:34.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:17:34.760 --> 0:17:39.440
<v Speaker 2>But apparently Rob Halford, the lead singer Judas Priest, Yeah,

0:17:39.520 --> 0:17:41.919
<v Speaker 2>I guess he was on WTF with Mark Maron at

0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:45.199
<v Speaker 2>some point and he said, hey, Sabbath has always said like,

0:17:45.240 --> 0:17:47.560
<v Speaker 2>we weren't the first metal band. Well, Judas Priest was

0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:50.960
<v Speaker 2>founded the same year. Yeah, so we'll gladly take that

0:17:51.080 --> 0:17:53.479
<v Speaker 2>title is the first metal band. And you can make

0:17:53.480 --> 0:17:57.000
<v Speaker 2>a pretty good case if Sabbath says no, give it

0:17:57.040 --> 0:17:59.560
<v Speaker 2>to Judas Priest. Yeah.

0:17:59.600 --> 0:18:01.800
<v Speaker 1>I don't think I realized they formed at the same time.

0:18:02.680 --> 0:18:06.639
<v Speaker 1>That's interesting. And I also think Ozzie's post Sabbath career

0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:10.080
<v Speaker 1>is just Ozzy Osbourne was as metal as metal gets.

0:18:10.080 --> 0:18:12.000
<v Speaker 1>So there may be a little bit of like kind

0:18:12.000 --> 0:18:13.639
<v Speaker 1>of joining those two things together.

0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:17.639
<v Speaker 2>That's possible, Yeah, for sure. Yeah, Heydy gone like the

0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:21.240
<v Speaker 2>way of George Benson or Chuck Man g Own. People

0:18:21.320 --> 0:18:24.560
<v Speaker 2>might leave, might leave. Uh oh yeah, that's right. Wow,

0:18:24.760 --> 0:18:27.040
<v Speaker 2>they're just popping up all over the place, or doing

0:18:27.080 --> 0:18:28.120
<v Speaker 2>the opposite of that, I guess.

0:18:28.280 --> 0:18:31.879
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they're popped there. Yeah, lank laying down right.

0:18:32.160 --> 0:18:35.399
<v Speaker 2>So most people, though, say they'll give Black Sabbath a

0:18:35.440 --> 0:18:38.960
<v Speaker 2>pass on their first debut, their debut album say like, okay,

0:18:39.000 --> 0:18:41.120
<v Speaker 2>that was kind of bluesy, and it is, but it's

0:18:41.119 --> 0:18:44.879
<v Speaker 2>still pretty metally. But they're like your second album Paranoid, Sorry,

0:18:44.920 --> 0:18:48.160
<v Speaker 2>that is definitely metal. War Pigs is about as metal

0:18:48.200 --> 0:18:50.000
<v Speaker 2>as metal gets still to this day.

0:18:50.440 --> 0:18:52.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean Paranoid is ranked as the number one

0:18:52.720 --> 0:18:54.840
<v Speaker 1>metal album of all time by Rolling Stone, So there

0:18:54.840 --> 0:18:55.080
<v Speaker 1>you go.

0:18:55.400 --> 0:18:57.520
<v Speaker 2>Well, then there's no arguing with that.

0:18:58.840 --> 0:19:00.760
<v Speaker 1>I agree, and I think we should take a break

0:19:01.080 --> 0:19:05.399
<v Speaker 1>and maybe come back and talk about a very unfortunate

0:19:05.480 --> 0:19:08.240
<v Speaker 1>kind of legendary incident that happened to Black Sabbath early

0:19:08.280 --> 0:19:35.760
<v Speaker 1>in their career. Right after this, all right, so we're

0:19:35.840 --> 0:19:40.959
<v Speaker 1>back with part two of six of the Heavy Metal Duology,

0:19:41.080 --> 0:19:44.600
<v Speaker 1>and I promised a little bit of talk about a

0:19:44.640 --> 0:19:48.600
<v Speaker 1>famous incident, a very sad one involving Black Sabbath early

0:19:48.600 --> 0:19:51.640
<v Speaker 1>in their career, and that is when Tony Iomi, their

0:19:51.640 --> 0:19:57.080
<v Speaker 1>brilliant left handed guitar player, was a teenager. He worked

0:19:57.080 --> 0:19:59.320
<v Speaker 1>at a steel mill in Birmingham, England. He was on

0:19:59.400 --> 0:20:02.880
<v Speaker 1>his last ship. Apparently he was heading out on tour

0:20:03.240 --> 0:20:05.680
<v Speaker 1>with the band, and he came home on a lunch

0:20:05.680 --> 0:20:08.920
<v Speaker 1>break and almost didn't even go back, and his mom said,

0:20:09.680 --> 0:20:13.119
<v Speaker 1>get your butt back there. You got to finish your job, boy,

0:20:13.800 --> 0:20:16.119
<v Speaker 1>and he went, okay, mom, and he went back and

0:20:16.200 --> 0:20:20.320
<v Speaker 1>proceeded to lose the ends of his middle finger and

0:20:20.600 --> 0:20:25.200
<v Speaker 1>ring finger on his right hand. But remember he's a

0:20:25.280 --> 0:20:27.679
<v Speaker 1>left handed guitar player, so if it was the other

0:20:27.720 --> 0:20:29.919
<v Speaker 1>way around, he could still hold the pick and probably

0:20:29.920 --> 0:20:32.439
<v Speaker 1>be okay. But this is the hand that is on

0:20:32.520 --> 0:20:36.120
<v Speaker 1>the neck, so he was missing a large, large portions

0:20:36.119 --> 0:20:37.879
<v Speaker 1>of his digits that make that pretty vital.

0:20:38.440 --> 0:20:40.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I also read that this was the first time

0:20:40.640 --> 0:20:43.080
<v Speaker 2>he used a metal press because the guy who normally

0:20:43.080 --> 0:20:46.120
<v Speaker 2>did it was out, and so they had Tony Iomi

0:20:46.920 --> 0:20:50.400
<v Speaker 2>cover his shift for the first time ever, like last

0:20:50.600 --> 0:20:53.359
<v Speaker 2>shift ever before he goes out on tour. Like, that's

0:20:53.440 --> 0:20:56.320
<v Speaker 2>just crazy that that happened. But that was actually a

0:20:56.359 --> 0:20:59.320
<v Speaker 2>gift to metal in a lot of ways because he

0:20:59.400 --> 0:21:04.480
<v Speaker 2>had to basically adapt. Apparently Django Reinhardt lost like some

0:21:04.520 --> 0:21:06.680
<v Speaker 2>fingers or a hand or something crazy like that.

0:21:06.800 --> 0:21:09.800
<v Speaker 1>It was a fire that basically he only had use

0:21:09.840 --> 0:21:12.760
<v Speaker 1>of two fingers on his fretting hand.

0:21:13.080 --> 0:21:17.080
<v Speaker 2>Okay, well, somebody told that story to Tony Iomi and

0:21:17.160 --> 0:21:19.199
<v Speaker 2>it inspired him to just get back in there. He

0:21:19.240 --> 0:21:23.359
<v Speaker 2>made prosthetics himself for his fingers. Apparently they worked so

0:21:23.359 --> 0:21:26.880
<v Speaker 2>so so instead he had to adapt by he loosened

0:21:26.920 --> 0:21:32.439
<v Speaker 2>the strings by downtuning, so everything had a deeper, like

0:21:32.520 --> 0:21:35.760
<v Speaker 2>heavier sound to it. The same notes that standard tuning

0:21:35.760 --> 0:21:38.760
<v Speaker 2>would produce, it had a deeper sound. He wasn't necessarily

0:21:38.760 --> 0:21:40.240
<v Speaker 2>doing it for the deeper sound. He was doing it

0:21:40.280 --> 0:21:43.679
<v Speaker 2>because the looser strings were easier for him to bend

0:21:44.040 --> 0:21:46.159
<v Speaker 2>with what he had left of his fingers. That was

0:21:46.200 --> 0:21:48.560
<v Speaker 2>a huge development that came out of the loss of

0:21:48.600 --> 0:21:50.159
<v Speaker 2>those fingertips.

0:21:49.600 --> 0:21:52.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah for sure. Also he switched to lighter strings, he

0:21:52.840 --> 0:21:56.280
<v Speaker 1>couldn't play as fast. So that's why Black Sabbath has

0:21:56.359 --> 0:22:01.159
<v Speaker 1>that terrific just sort of grungy slog. And it's not

0:22:01.200 --> 0:22:03.440
<v Speaker 1>like kept that kind of fast metal. It's because Tony Iomi,

0:22:03.600 --> 0:22:05.400
<v Speaker 1>you know, he, like you said, he made these things

0:22:05.400 --> 0:22:08.920
<v Speaker 1>out of wax and leather, and if he played fast enough,

0:22:08.960 --> 0:22:12.680
<v Speaker 1>they would fly off his finger, and so he had

0:22:12.680 --> 0:22:14.239
<v Speaker 1>to kind of slow it down, and that's why they

0:22:14.280 --> 0:22:16.160
<v Speaker 1>had that sort of deep, sludgy grind.

0:22:16.880 --> 0:22:18.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. One of the other things I love about Sabbath

0:22:18.840 --> 0:22:22.560
<v Speaker 2>too is they like their studio albums contain like mess ups,

0:22:22.720 --> 0:22:25.919
<v Speaker 2>like blatant mess ups, like they'll just like miss the

0:22:25.920 --> 0:22:28.320
<v Speaker 2>beat on drums or something like that once in a while,

0:22:28.359 --> 0:22:30.840
<v Speaker 2>and they just kept going and released it on the album.

0:22:30.880 --> 0:22:32.240
<v Speaker 2>I love that about them.

0:22:32.480 --> 0:22:35.520
<v Speaker 1>I'd listen right before we recorded. I have the one

0:22:35.600 --> 0:22:39.480
<v Speaker 1>hundred and eighty gram versions of their their debut, which

0:22:39.680 --> 0:22:42.679
<v Speaker 1>has the most terrifying album cover of all time. To me,

0:22:43.160 --> 0:22:48.320
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, oh, I think so. And Masters of or

0:22:48.440 --> 0:22:50.639
<v Speaker 1>I think Master of Reality or is it Masters I

0:22:50.640 --> 0:22:53.400
<v Speaker 1>can't remember, And then I ordered I realized I didn't

0:22:53.400 --> 0:22:55.080
<v Speaker 1>even have paranoid, so I ordered.

0:22:55.000 --> 0:23:00.159
<v Speaker 2>Oh, really nice stat nice work, Chuck. Yeah. Yeah, that's

0:23:00.320 --> 0:23:02.600
<v Speaker 2>that's something. We'll talk a little more about album art later,

0:23:02.680 --> 0:23:07.800
<v Speaker 2>but that's definitely something that's missing in the day and

0:23:07.840 --> 0:23:11.200
<v Speaker 2>age of like listening to stuff digitally. Yeah, you don't

0:23:11.200 --> 0:23:14.640
<v Speaker 2>have that record album to like look at while you're listening,

0:23:14.680 --> 0:23:16.600
<v Speaker 2>and that's like part of the experience, right.

0:23:16.640 --> 0:23:17.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:23:17.560 --> 0:23:20.199
<v Speaker 2>But I will say that I noticed recently I was

0:23:20.240 --> 0:23:24.280
<v Speaker 2>listening to Somewhere in Time Iron Maiden album, and the

0:23:24.359 --> 0:23:28.239
<v Speaker 2>album art on my iPhone moves now, so Eddie, like

0:23:28.480 --> 0:23:31.640
<v Speaker 2>they show him like shooting the guy who's just out

0:23:31.680 --> 0:23:34.320
<v Speaker 2>of frame. You just see his hand. Wow, eyes light up,

0:23:34.400 --> 0:23:37.080
<v Speaker 2>like it's really cool. We're downloading the album just to

0:23:37.119 --> 0:23:39.480
<v Speaker 2>see that alone, let alone for the music. So I'm

0:23:39.480 --> 0:23:41.920
<v Speaker 2>glad that that developed, but it's still not quite the

0:23:41.920 --> 0:23:45.480
<v Speaker 2>same as holding like a record album like cover and

0:23:45.560 --> 0:23:46.320
<v Speaker 2>looking at it.

0:23:46.600 --> 0:23:50.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, for sure. The seventies also included, of course, Judas Priests.

0:23:50.520 --> 0:23:54.040
<v Speaker 1>As you mentioned, Iron Maiden started in nineteen seventy five

0:23:54.600 --> 0:23:57.320
<v Speaker 1>with a different lead singer. That's if you're not super

0:23:57.359 --> 0:23:59.359
<v Speaker 1>into Iron Maiden and you just kind of remember the

0:23:59.480 --> 0:24:02.920
<v Speaker 1>eighties music videos with the great Bruce Dickenson up front

0:24:03.520 --> 0:24:07.199
<v Speaker 1>their first two records, Killers and Just I think it

0:24:07.240 --> 0:24:08.399
<v Speaker 1>was self titled, right.

0:24:09.600 --> 0:24:12.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Iron Maiden and then Killers and they were both

0:24:12.440 --> 0:24:15.439
<v Speaker 2>it was Paul Diano was their first lead singer.

0:24:15.600 --> 0:24:16.520
<v Speaker 1>I like those records.

0:24:17.000 --> 0:24:18.720
<v Speaker 2>Let's talk a little bit about Maiden right now. You

0:24:18.720 --> 0:24:21.080
<v Speaker 2>want to, Yeah, you want to get into it, yeah,

0:24:21.160 --> 0:24:26.200
<v Speaker 2>because it's really pretty much impossible to overstate the influence

0:24:26.240 --> 0:24:30.360
<v Speaker 2>that Iron Maiden had on you metal, you.

0:24:30.320 --> 0:24:33.680
<v Speaker 1>Know, yeah, Like no, I agree, Like if you if you.

0:24:33.800 --> 0:24:35.920
<v Speaker 2>Ask some of the people who make up the Big

0:24:35.960 --> 0:24:42.480
<v Speaker 2>four of thrash bands Metallica, Megadeth, Slayer, and Anthrax, they're

0:24:42.520 --> 0:24:45.280
<v Speaker 2>basically like, we wouldn't we wouldn't exist if it weren't

0:24:45.280 --> 0:24:47.639
<v Speaker 2>for Iron Maiden. Like, we loved Maiden so much we

0:24:47.720 --> 0:24:50.000
<v Speaker 2>decided to form our own band. We were inspired to

0:24:50.040 --> 0:24:52.680
<v Speaker 2>form our own band, and it just keeps going down

0:24:52.720 --> 0:24:56.000
<v Speaker 2>the line. Band after band after band started out loving

0:24:56.040 --> 0:24:59.720
<v Speaker 2>Iron Maiden. It's such a great entree into heavy metal

0:24:59.800 --> 0:25:02.000
<v Speaker 2>music because it's so listenable.

0:25:01.600 --> 0:25:02.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, totally melodic.

0:25:03.160 --> 0:25:05.480
<v Speaker 2>The lyrics are really interesting, Like the themes of the

0:25:05.560 --> 0:25:10.080
<v Speaker 2>songs are really varied. And I was evidence of this.

0:25:10.640 --> 0:25:13.399
<v Speaker 2>The poster art alone can't get you into Iron Maiden.

0:25:13.480 --> 0:25:16.360
<v Speaker 2>Like I had my room covered in Iron Maiden posters

0:25:16.359 --> 0:25:17.960
<v Speaker 2>before I listened to them at all.

0:25:18.400 --> 0:25:20.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean we should talk about that for a second.

0:25:20.880 --> 0:25:23.399
<v Speaker 1>Then their mascot is Eddie. If you've ever seen an

0:25:23.440 --> 0:25:27.200
<v Speaker 1>Iron Maiden album cover or poster or live video where

0:25:27.200 --> 0:25:29.800
<v Speaker 1>they have big, you know, giant Eddie walking around and

0:25:29.840 --> 0:25:33.720
<v Speaker 1>stuff like a puppet, I guess he's their mascot. And

0:25:33.840 --> 0:25:37.280
<v Speaker 1>he was drawn by a guy named Derrek Riggs, and

0:25:37.960 --> 0:25:40.720
<v Speaker 1>he was originally he was called Eddie the Head and

0:25:40.760 --> 0:25:44.840
<v Speaker 1>then just the Head, but in their British accent, the

0:25:45.080 --> 0:25:46.920
<v Speaker 1>ed they like dropped their h's.

0:25:47.240 --> 0:25:47.920
<v Speaker 2>Oh is that right?

0:25:47.960 --> 0:25:50.439
<v Speaker 1>It just became ed and Eddie is how they eventually

0:25:50.480 --> 0:25:51.240
<v Speaker 1>wound up with Eddie.

0:25:51.600 --> 0:25:54.320
<v Speaker 2>Very nice, and he's been on every single of the

0:25:54.960 --> 0:25:58.720
<v Speaker 2>seventeen albums that they've released, most of the singles, apparently

0:25:58.760 --> 0:26:01.600
<v Speaker 2>not all. I don't know why, but he's usually kind

0:26:01.640 --> 0:26:07.160
<v Speaker 2>of like altered to represent whatever that particular album is about, right.

0:26:07.280 --> 0:26:12.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, for sure, Like he was an inmate in a

0:26:12.280 --> 0:26:15.440
<v Speaker 1>mental institution for peace of mind. I do love the

0:26:15.440 --> 0:26:18.399
<v Speaker 1>cover of Power Slave when he's he's a pharaoh in

0:26:18.480 --> 0:26:19.840
<v Speaker 1>the desert. Pretty cool.

0:26:20.400 --> 0:26:24.320
<v Speaker 2>Apparently when they toured that album, they had like a

0:26:24.359 --> 0:26:29.440
<v Speaker 2>thirty foot like actual build of that as the backdrop

0:26:29.520 --> 0:26:30.680
<v Speaker 2>for their stage show.

0:26:30.880 --> 0:26:31.640
<v Speaker 1>Of course they did.

0:26:31.680 --> 0:26:34.840
<v Speaker 2>Why would you not exactly, you know, but yeah, Eddie

0:26:34.880 --> 0:26:37.520
<v Speaker 2>was bossed, just Eddie alone, And he's a good example

0:26:37.560 --> 0:26:40.199
<v Speaker 2>of why the loss of like an album cover is

0:26:40.200 --> 0:26:43.080
<v Speaker 2>really like a big deal, because man, it doesn't get

0:26:43.119 --> 0:26:45.040
<v Speaker 2>any better than Iron Maiden album covers.

0:26:45.240 --> 0:26:49.000
<v Speaker 1>No agreed. They came out in nineteen seventy five, and

0:26:49.680 --> 0:26:52.520
<v Speaker 1>I believe it or not, def Leppard was also debuting

0:26:52.560 --> 0:26:55.880
<v Speaker 1>along with Motorhead and they were grouped together as what's

0:26:55.880 --> 0:26:58.800
<v Speaker 1>called the new wave of British heavy metal, and that

0:26:58.960 --> 0:27:02.560
<v Speaker 1>was sort of happy happening concurrently with the punk scene,

0:27:02.560 --> 0:27:04.760
<v Speaker 1>which is interesting because punk and metal to me are

0:27:04.840 --> 0:27:07.600
<v Speaker 1>very different, but there are some sort of tendrils that

0:27:07.640 --> 0:27:09.280
<v Speaker 1>work through both of those kinds of music.

0:27:09.960 --> 0:27:13.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and that's where those first two albums definitely, they

0:27:13.520 --> 0:27:17.600
<v Speaker 2>were definitely influenced. Paul Deano was definitely influenced by punk,

0:27:17.720 --> 0:27:20.560
<v Speaker 2>so it was a lot more it was a lot

0:27:20.600 --> 0:27:24.479
<v Speaker 2>closer to hardcore than the albums that Bruce Dickinson helmed.

0:27:24.880 --> 0:27:27.000
<v Speaker 2>Starting with their third album, Number of the Beast, which

0:27:27.040 --> 0:27:29.760
<v Speaker 2>is when the band just broke through and became metal Gods.

0:27:29.800 --> 0:27:31.240
<v Speaker 2>That was back in nineteen eighty two.

0:27:31.640 --> 0:27:35.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Dickinson brought that sort of operatic flourish the theatrical

0:27:36.480 --> 0:27:38.800
<v Speaker 1>like some of us. I was listening today and sometimes

0:27:38.880 --> 0:27:41.920
<v Speaker 1>he literally goes like from and that kind of thing,

0:27:42.600 --> 0:27:44.920
<v Speaker 1>which is like, you gotta love it. He really leaned into.

0:27:44.680 --> 0:27:49.040
<v Speaker 2>It, for sure, and like, I don't know how I like,

0:27:49.280 --> 0:27:51.520
<v Speaker 2>I'm not such a fan that I know who actually

0:27:51.520 --> 0:27:55.639
<v Speaker 2>writes the songs. I've always presumed Bruce Dickinson did, but

0:27:55.760 --> 0:27:58.440
<v Speaker 2>usually it turns out to be like the guitarist or

0:27:58.440 --> 0:28:02.399
<v Speaker 2>something like that. But they're songs are really really interesting

0:28:02.760 --> 0:28:06.040
<v Speaker 2>and they're really varied, like they cover history a lot,

0:28:06.320 --> 0:28:08.480
<v Speaker 2>like there's a song about World War two pilots called

0:28:08.520 --> 0:28:13.280
<v Speaker 2>Aces High, the song about Alexander the Great, about white

0:28:13.480 --> 0:28:18.640
<v Speaker 2>Europeans and Americans overrunning Native Americans in North America run

0:28:18.640 --> 0:28:21.000
<v Speaker 2>to the Hills. That's on number of the.

0:28:20.920 --> 0:28:22.080
<v Speaker 1>Beasts two great song.

0:28:22.680 --> 0:28:26.439
<v Speaker 2>They have some really like uplifting, encouraging messages in their songs,

0:28:26.480 --> 0:28:29.679
<v Speaker 2>like can I play with Madness in Wasted Years? They

0:28:29.720 --> 0:28:32.480
<v Speaker 2>even have a song about the loneliness of a long

0:28:32.480 --> 0:28:35.560
<v Speaker 2>distance runner and that's what it's about. Yeah, and it's

0:28:35.680 --> 0:28:39.840
<v Speaker 2>really it's a great song, like it they follow the

0:28:39.920 --> 0:28:42.080
<v Speaker 2>pace and like the slow down and then the speed

0:28:42.160 --> 0:28:44.360
<v Speaker 2>up again once he gets a second win. Like, oh,

0:28:44.360 --> 0:28:47.440
<v Speaker 2>it's a really well done song, but it's about a

0:28:47.520 --> 0:28:51.080
<v Speaker 2>long distance runner running a marathon by himself. Yeah.

0:28:51.120 --> 0:28:53.480
<v Speaker 1>One of the things I haven't gotten around to yet

0:28:53.480 --> 0:28:56.520
<v Speaker 1>in my recent documentary Binge is I know there's a

0:28:56.520 --> 0:28:58.480
<v Speaker 1>really good Iron Maiden documentary that came out I think

0:28:58.560 --> 0:29:01.440
<v Speaker 1>last year or semi recently, and I haven't checked that

0:29:01.440 --> 0:29:03.760
<v Speaker 1>out yet, but that's on the list, like even higher

0:29:03.760 --> 0:29:04.600
<v Speaker 1>now sure.

0:29:05.200 --> 0:29:07.920
<v Speaker 2>And if you're like, well, okay, how big is Iron Maiden,

0:29:08.360 --> 0:29:11.920
<v Speaker 2>Well we've got a few stats for you, one chuck back.

0:29:11.960 --> 0:29:17.960
<v Speaker 2>In twenty twelve, the Queen's sixty year Jubilee, the UK

0:29:18.120 --> 0:29:20.560
<v Speaker 2>held some polls to say, like to figure out what

0:29:20.600 --> 0:29:22.880
<v Speaker 2>the best of the best was of the last sixty years.

0:29:23.360 --> 0:29:27.160
<v Speaker 2>The best British record album of the last sixty years,

0:29:27.400 --> 0:29:32.080
<v Speaker 2>voted by citizens of the UK was Number of the

0:29:32.080 --> 0:29:33.480
<v Speaker 2>Beast Iron Maiden.

0:29:33.640 --> 0:29:35.400
<v Speaker 1>So just best record.

0:29:35.480 --> 0:29:39.160
<v Speaker 2>The best record the Beatles were from Britain. Don't forget

0:29:39.560 --> 0:29:42.240
<v Speaker 2>all of those guys who were the progenitors of heavy

0:29:42.320 --> 0:29:45.960
<v Speaker 2>metal were from Britain. Iron Maiden's Number of the Beast

0:29:46.040 --> 0:29:48.720
<v Speaker 2>was voted the number one record in the last sixty

0:29:48.800 --> 0:29:50.040
<v Speaker 2>years in Great Britain.

0:29:50.480 --> 0:29:53.760
<v Speaker 1>All right, here's my statement on that. Okay, I don't

0:29:53.800 --> 0:29:56.280
<v Speaker 1>doubt you. I just want to know a little bit

0:29:56.320 --> 0:30:00.720
<v Speaker 1>more about the robustness of this pole and like, Okay,

0:30:01.320 --> 0:30:05.000
<v Speaker 1>it's shocking to me that that would be number one

0:30:05.120 --> 0:30:08.360
<v Speaker 1>over like the Stones or the Beatles or letwipl or

0:30:08.360 --> 0:30:10.560
<v Speaker 1>just bands that were just way, way, way more popular.

0:30:10.880 --> 0:30:13.520
<v Speaker 2>I totally get you, and I triple check that to

0:30:13.600 --> 0:30:16.640
<v Speaker 2>make sure that that was not just like some misinformed

0:30:16.680 --> 0:30:18.640
<v Speaker 2>fan like that.

0:30:18.680 --> 0:30:20.680
<v Speaker 1>I just want to see the I want to see

0:30:20.680 --> 0:30:22.400
<v Speaker 1>where they took this poll, like how it was done.

0:30:22.400 --> 0:30:23.160
<v Speaker 1>That's why I don't want to know.

0:30:23.480 --> 0:30:26.280
<v Speaker 2>But they they got almost ten percent of the vote,

0:30:26.560 --> 0:30:27.720
<v Speaker 2>so it's pretty good.

0:30:28.200 --> 0:30:29.600
<v Speaker 1>You're like it was in the parking lot of an

0:30:29.600 --> 0:30:30.680
<v Speaker 1>Iron Maiden show.

0:30:33.240 --> 0:30:36.040
<v Speaker 2>So they've also sold one hundred and thirty million copies

0:30:36.080 --> 0:30:40.040
<v Speaker 2>of their seventeen albums. I means bad. Even Lady Gaga's

0:30:40.040 --> 0:30:40.560
<v Speaker 2>a fan.

0:30:40.480 --> 0:30:42.960
<v Speaker 1>Right, yeah, I mean I think she was knocked out

0:30:43.000 --> 0:30:47.880
<v Speaker 1>by their fandom or standem because she was like what

0:30:47.920 --> 0:30:49.720
<v Speaker 1>I see in an Iron Maidens fan base is what

0:30:49.800 --> 0:30:53.800
<v Speaker 1>I want for myself. Like they are so wholly dedicated,

0:30:54.560 --> 0:30:57.000
<v Speaker 1>and that's something I think that's true for a lot

0:30:57.000 --> 0:30:59.000
<v Speaker 1>of metal bands, but they seem to be even more

0:30:59.040 --> 0:31:00.480
<v Speaker 1>so than a lot of metal bands.

0:31:00.720 --> 0:31:03.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I mean like world wide. If you go

0:31:03.880 --> 0:31:07.000
<v Speaker 2>to South America, they can fill a stadium every night

0:31:07.040 --> 0:31:11.040
<v Speaker 2>for a month. Like people around the world love Iron Maiden.

0:31:11.280 --> 0:31:13.320
<v Speaker 2>I just think it's great because they're a great band.

0:31:13.600 --> 0:31:17.120
<v Speaker 2>There's not a bunch of controversy. Controversy, they're not like

0:31:17.880 --> 0:31:22.520
<v Speaker 2>preoccupied with like bringing the full the full power of

0:31:22.560 --> 0:31:25.680
<v Speaker 2>Satan to bear on his non believers, like right, They're

0:31:25.720 --> 0:31:28.600
<v Speaker 2>just actually a lot of their stuff is pretty encouraging,

0:31:28.880 --> 0:31:31.400
<v Speaker 2>at the very least super interesting. So they're they like,

0:31:31.800 --> 0:31:34.320
<v Speaker 2>they're just a good band to be beloved worldwide.

0:31:34.360 --> 0:31:38.640
<v Speaker 1>I think totally agree. I still think I'm Judas Priest more.

0:31:38.640 --> 0:31:42.000
<v Speaker 1>I was listening to British Steel today and they're they're

0:31:42.040 --> 0:31:43.520
<v Speaker 1>both great. They're kind of side by side for me.

0:31:43.560 --> 0:31:47.640
<v Speaker 2>Actually, Okay, I have to like add to my original

0:31:47.640 --> 0:31:49.800
<v Speaker 2>top five maybe even current top five. I really like

0:31:49.840 --> 0:31:52.600
<v Speaker 2>Motorhead a lot. Yeah, I don't own a Motorhead T shirt.

0:31:52.640 --> 0:31:55.520
<v Speaker 2>I really haven't heard much beyond their Asus Spades album,

0:31:55.760 --> 0:31:57.880
<v Speaker 2>but I love what I hear a Motorhead. I like

0:31:57.920 --> 0:32:00.400
<v Speaker 2>their whole jam. They're another band that says like, we're

0:32:00.400 --> 0:32:01.240
<v Speaker 2>not heavy metal.

0:32:02.280 --> 0:32:05.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's true, but they were kind of the progenitors

0:32:05.760 --> 0:32:07.520
<v Speaker 1>of speed metal. I think in a lot of ways.

0:32:08.880 --> 0:32:10.960
<v Speaker 1>You know, the Scorpions came out in sixty five, and

0:32:11.000 --> 0:32:16.520
<v Speaker 1>Hanover I know, recommended the sales of Sharon as a

0:32:16.680 --> 0:32:19.120
<v Speaker 1>very amazing YouTube thing to go watch if you want

0:32:19.120 --> 0:32:23.200
<v Speaker 1>to see some pre eighties Scorpions. Okay, def Leppard came

0:32:23.240 --> 0:32:25.600
<v Speaker 1>out in seventy seven. See this is where Olvia has

0:32:25.600 --> 0:32:27.640
<v Speaker 1>a couple listed like Van Halen and Blue Oyster Cult

0:32:27.720 --> 0:32:31.560
<v Speaker 1>and Aerosmith and ac DC that I don't think any

0:32:31.640 --> 0:32:32.720
<v Speaker 1>of those bands are metal.

0:32:33.040 --> 0:32:35.920
<v Speaker 2>Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa whoa. You don't think Van Halen

0:32:36.000 --> 0:32:36.479
<v Speaker 2>is metal?

0:32:36.960 --> 0:32:38.080
<v Speaker 1>Not at all?

0:32:38.400 --> 0:32:39.600
<v Speaker 2>Oh, I disagree with you.

0:32:40.280 --> 0:32:42.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think they're not metal at all.

0:32:43.120 --> 0:32:45.680
<v Speaker 2>All Right, I'm gonna say that I think that they

0:32:46.000 --> 0:32:47.000
<v Speaker 2>qualify as metal.

0:32:48.280 --> 0:32:52.200
<v Speaker 1>Interesting, have you ever heard David Lee Roth I have?

0:32:53.120 --> 0:32:55.560
<v Speaker 1>I have ice cream?

0:32:55.600 --> 0:32:58.920
<v Speaker 2>Man. Yes, I know that they have other stuff, but

0:32:59.040 --> 0:33:02.600
<v Speaker 2>I'm saying, like, think they're like the stuff that sounds

0:33:02.640 --> 0:33:03.760
<v Speaker 2>like metal is metal.

0:33:04.200 --> 0:33:05.960
<v Speaker 1>I don't think it sounds like metal at all. I

0:33:06.000 --> 0:33:06.960
<v Speaker 1>just think they're a rock band.

0:33:07.200 --> 0:33:08.360
<v Speaker 2>Have you heard Panama?

0:33:09.520 --> 0:33:11.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that didn't sound metal to me at all.

0:33:11.360 --> 0:33:14.080
<v Speaker 2>I'm just kidding, Okay. I can't think of a single

0:33:14.520 --> 0:33:16.520
<v Speaker 2>metal metal song of theirs.

0:33:16.800 --> 0:33:18.480
<v Speaker 1>I think it's mostly just.

0:33:18.200 --> 0:33:21.640
<v Speaker 2>Just Eddie van Halen's playing that. I'm like, that's metal, man.

0:33:22.120 --> 0:33:25.680
<v Speaker 1>Oh see, not to me, that's just virtue virtuostic, right,

0:33:26.080 --> 0:33:30.200
<v Speaker 1>rock guitar lead to me? I mean. And also, just

0:33:30.240 --> 0:33:32.640
<v Speaker 1>you know, they didn't sing about those things. There was

0:33:32.680 --> 0:33:36.120
<v Speaker 1>no darkness, there was no you know, the way they dress,

0:33:36.200 --> 0:33:39.120
<v Speaker 1>like Eddie van Halen wore overalls on stage.

0:33:39.440 --> 0:33:45.959
<v Speaker 2>Hey, Randy Rhodes wore a polka dot like Chippendale's vest. Right,

0:33:46.160 --> 0:33:48.880
<v Speaker 2>So let's not get into that, all right.

0:33:48.920 --> 0:33:54.000
<v Speaker 1>So anyway, just my opinion, I knew that, But let's

0:33:54.000 --> 0:33:56.040
<v Speaker 1>talk about just the I mean, I guess this is

0:33:56.080 --> 0:33:59.680
<v Speaker 1>a nice segue into the words heavy metal, because, like

0:33:59.720 --> 0:34:01.640
<v Speaker 1>I said, people can nitpick this stuff to death what

0:34:01.760 --> 0:34:06.880
<v Speaker 1>heavy rock was or when it transitioned into metal. There's

0:34:06.920 --> 0:34:12.239
<v Speaker 1>a sociologist named Dina Weinstein that Livia found that tried

0:34:12.280 --> 0:34:14.880
<v Speaker 1>to kind of root out the origins of the little

0:34:15.080 --> 0:34:18.520
<v Speaker 1>literal phrase heavy metal. It was born to be Wild

0:34:18.560 --> 0:34:22.520
<v Speaker 1>by Steppenwolf, you know, heavy metal, thunder, But that wasn't

0:34:22.520 --> 0:34:24.520
<v Speaker 1>talking about music. That was talking about cars and.

0:34:24.480 --> 0:34:29.600
<v Speaker 2>Stuff, right, I don't know. Could it could have influenced

0:34:29.640 --> 0:34:31.680
<v Speaker 2>it to some degree or whatever, but it doesn't seem

0:34:31.760 --> 0:34:34.920
<v Speaker 2>like the direct answer. Yeah, yeah, it's me. William S

0:34:34.960 --> 0:34:38.480
<v Speaker 2>Burrows apparently puts up a pretty good argument for the

0:34:38.520 --> 0:34:42.839
<v Speaker 2>guy who coined heavy metal, or at least put it

0:34:42.880 --> 0:34:45.960
<v Speaker 2>out there, and that it was adopted to eventually describe

0:34:46.440 --> 0:34:48.520
<v Speaker 2>that genre of music. It's not at all what he

0:34:48.600 --> 0:34:51.520
<v Speaker 2>was doing. He had a character from his Nova trilogy

0:34:51.560 --> 0:34:55.719
<v Speaker 2>called Uranium Willy, the heavy metal Kid. Okay, I don't

0:34:55.760 --> 0:34:58.080
<v Speaker 2>know enough about William S Burrow's writing to know if

0:34:58.120 --> 0:35:02.640
<v Speaker 2>like Uranium Willy was like metal in the metal sense. Yeah,

0:35:02.719 --> 0:35:05.360
<v Speaker 2>but he also had a drug called heavy metal that

0:35:05.440 --> 0:35:07.800
<v Speaker 2>appeared in some of his other works, not Naked Lunch,

0:35:08.120 --> 0:35:11.880
<v Speaker 2>but in other works. That to me makes a You

0:35:11.880 --> 0:35:14.440
<v Speaker 2>could make a pretty good argument that I would buy

0:35:14.920 --> 0:35:18.640
<v Speaker 2>that that ultimately maybe led to the use of heavy

0:35:18.680 --> 0:35:21.040
<v Speaker 2>metal to describe heavy metal. Yeah.

0:35:21.080 --> 0:35:24.160
<v Speaker 1>I think both of those things had put it out

0:35:24.160 --> 0:35:27.560
<v Speaker 1>into this public consciousness as two words that can be

0:35:27.600 --> 0:35:31.000
<v Speaker 1>said together, but for my money, you got to go

0:35:31.040 --> 0:35:35.759
<v Speaker 1>with Lester Bangs. This was in nineteen seventy and I

0:35:35.800 --> 0:35:37.399
<v Speaker 1>think he was running for Rolling Stone at the time.

0:35:37.440 --> 0:35:41.239
<v Speaker 1>But the legendary rock critic and writer, in one of

0:35:41.239 --> 0:35:44.080
<v Speaker 1>his reviews in nineteen seventy said he was complaining it

0:35:44.120 --> 0:35:45.879
<v Speaker 1>was a negative thing. He said, all the heavy metal

0:35:45.960 --> 0:35:49.000
<v Speaker 1>robots of years past, of the year past. When he

0:35:49.000 --> 0:35:51.279
<v Speaker 1>was talking about the albums of nineteen seventy, he was

0:35:51.280 --> 0:35:55.799
<v Speaker 1>talking about nineteen sixty nine. And he proceeded by a

0:35:55.800 --> 0:35:59.200
<v Speaker 1>few months a guy named Mike Saunders, eventually known as

0:35:59.239 --> 0:36:03.080
<v Speaker 1>Metal Mike, who described Humble Pie as a noisy, unmelodic,

0:36:03.120 --> 0:36:06.360
<v Speaker 1>heavy metal laden poop rock band.

0:36:07.120 --> 0:36:11.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, thank you for changing s to poop. Yeah, but

0:36:11.000 --> 0:36:12.920
<v Speaker 2>deserve the moral purity of our podcast.

0:36:13.560 --> 0:36:16.840
<v Speaker 1>They both use the words heavy metal to describe music,

0:36:16.880 --> 0:36:19.200
<v Speaker 1>I think for the first time in nineteen seventy.

0:36:20.360 --> 0:36:23.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but they were, Yeah, they were negative reviews. That

0:36:24.440 --> 0:36:27.040
<v Speaker 2>that's possible, I think. Dina Weinstein says like that's a

0:36:27.080 --> 0:36:29.919
<v Speaker 2>real possibility. But she put something out that I thought

0:36:29.960 --> 0:36:32.400
<v Speaker 2>was pretty interesting too. She pointed out that a lot

0:36:32.520 --> 0:36:35.480
<v Speaker 2>of these bands came from Birmingham, England, and Detroit, Michigan,

0:36:35.520 --> 0:36:39.880
<v Speaker 2>which apparently were very similar at the time. They're very polluted, dirty, industrial,

0:36:39.920 --> 0:36:43.240
<v Speaker 2>working class cities, and that the fans of heavy metal

0:36:44.239 --> 0:36:48.279
<v Speaker 2>also hailed from those areas too, where areas like them,

0:36:48.560 --> 0:36:51.600
<v Speaker 2>and that they would be familiar with like the feel

0:36:51.800 --> 0:36:58.120
<v Speaker 2>of heavy metal like that, not the feel, what's the

0:36:58.160 --> 0:37:00.479
<v Speaker 2>word I'm looking for, the.

0:37:01.920 --> 0:37:04.520
<v Speaker 1>Sensibility, No, more like the.

0:37:06.360 --> 0:37:09.240
<v Speaker 2>Just like what the term can kind of bring to mind,

0:37:10.000 --> 0:37:12.759
<v Speaker 2>you know what I'm saying and associating that with music. Yeah,

0:37:12.800 --> 0:37:17.920
<v Speaker 2>somebody from you know, super nice Town, USA who's experienced

0:37:17.960 --> 0:37:22.040
<v Speaker 2>with metal is the nails holding their white picket fence together.

0:37:22.239 --> 0:37:24.000
<v Speaker 2>They might not be able to be like, yeah, heavy

0:37:24.040 --> 0:37:27.200
<v Speaker 2>metal really describes this music, but the kids in Detroit

0:37:27.239 --> 0:37:29.600
<v Speaker 2>and Birmingham probably could. And I thought that was an

0:37:29.600 --> 0:37:30.320
<v Speaker 2>interesting point.

0:37:30.719 --> 0:37:33.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, for sure. Absolutely. Oh geez, look at where we are.

0:37:33.680 --> 0:37:35.960
<v Speaker 1>Why don't we take another break, Okay, and we'll come

0:37:36.000 --> 0:37:39.080
<v Speaker 1>back and talk about how the genre started to grow

0:37:39.120 --> 0:37:42.160
<v Speaker 1>and sort of split into subgenres right after this.

0:37:42.160 --> 0:38:12.760
<v Speaker 2>This is gonna be fun, okay, Chuck. So, the early

0:38:12.840 --> 0:38:16.239
<v Speaker 2>seventies or the mid seventies to early eighties gave us

0:38:16.280 --> 0:38:19.880
<v Speaker 2>the British Wave, the New British wave of heavy metal

0:38:20.040 --> 0:38:22.719
<v Speaker 2>right laid the foundation. You would call most of that

0:38:23.200 --> 0:38:26.040
<v Speaker 2>just heavy metal, like it's just so classic. They don't

0:38:26.040 --> 0:38:29.160
<v Speaker 2>even fit into subgenres. They just gave the world heavy metal.

0:38:29.440 --> 0:38:32.879
<v Speaker 2>From that point, it just started to split. And one

0:38:32.920 --> 0:38:35.600
<v Speaker 2>of the ways that it started to split was by spreading,

0:38:36.200 --> 0:38:39.080
<v Speaker 2>and it didn't spread through radio. Radio was afraid of

0:38:39.120 --> 0:38:42.440
<v Speaker 2>heavy metal almost from the outset. So bands were forced

0:38:42.440 --> 0:38:44.799
<v Speaker 2>to basically say, let's just get out on the road,

0:38:44.960 --> 0:38:48.839
<v Speaker 2>Let's go to our fans rather than relying on other

0:38:48.880 --> 0:38:52.799
<v Speaker 2>people to help boost our popularity. And so touring in

0:38:53.120 --> 0:38:56.240
<v Speaker 2>massive tours became just a part of being a heavy

0:38:56.239 --> 0:38:59.760
<v Speaker 2>metal band, especially in the early eighties. Throughout the eighties,

0:39:00.560 --> 0:39:02.960
<v Speaker 2>and they would make stage shows that people would talk

0:39:03.000 --> 0:39:06.240
<v Speaker 2>about four years afterwards, like we talked about the Iron

0:39:06.239 --> 0:39:09.520
<v Speaker 2>Maiden nineteen eighty three Power Slaver eighty four or five

0:39:10.040 --> 0:39:13.000
<v Speaker 2>Power Slave Tour and what their stage show looked like,

0:39:13.000 --> 0:39:14.640
<v Speaker 2>Like that's the kind of stuff they were doing.

0:39:14.880 --> 0:39:17.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, for sure. The eighties. Of course, that's when hair

0:39:17.560 --> 0:39:20.440
<v Speaker 1>metal comes onto the scene, and that's when I'm an

0:39:20.520 --> 0:39:22.920
<v Speaker 1>MTV that's when I started getting into it a little bit.

0:39:22.920 --> 0:39:26.839
<v Speaker 1>Despite my early alternative music leanings and also loving like

0:39:26.880 --> 0:39:29.360
<v Speaker 1>Billy Joel at the time, stuff like that. Sure, so

0:39:29.400 --> 0:39:31.319
<v Speaker 1>I was all over the place. But you know, Rat

0:39:31.320 --> 0:39:35.480
<v Speaker 1>comes along, Motley Crue comes along, your band Poison Cinderella

0:39:35.520 --> 0:39:38.680
<v Speaker 1>another band that I love. I mean, we could go

0:39:38.680 --> 0:39:41.920
<v Speaker 1>through them, La Guns, White Snake, Hanoi, Rocks, Slaughter, Skid Row,

0:39:41.960 --> 0:39:47.360
<v Speaker 1>Doc and Wasp Warrant Warrant, Quiet Riot, Twisted Sister. And

0:39:47.400 --> 0:39:51.520
<v Speaker 1>we have to mention this band because it was kind

0:39:51.560 --> 0:39:54.960
<v Speaker 1>of the beginnings of some really dark metal. And that

0:39:55.040 --> 0:39:58.400
<v Speaker 1>has a band called Merciful Fate, Yeah, from lead singer

0:39:58.680 --> 0:40:02.080
<v Speaker 1>King Diamond, who later after Merciful Fate. I think the

0:40:02.160 --> 0:40:05.160
<v Speaker 1>Merciful Fate was nineteen eighty to eighty four, and then

0:40:05.160 --> 0:40:08.839
<v Speaker 1>after that King Diamond, which is obviously stage name, went

0:40:08.880 --> 0:40:11.960
<v Speaker 1>on to form the band King Diamond, and they were

0:40:12.320 --> 0:40:15.759
<v Speaker 1>very dark, sort of darker metal and used what's known

0:40:15.800 --> 0:40:17.919
<v Speaker 1>as corpse paint, like the black and white makeup paint

0:40:17.920 --> 0:40:22.120
<v Speaker 1>on a space. Yes, and very influential early I guess

0:40:22.280 --> 0:40:23.080
<v Speaker 1>dark metal.

0:40:23.360 --> 0:40:26.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah for sure. The other band that typically gets pointed

0:40:26.680 --> 0:40:32.279
<v Speaker 2>to is the basis of death metal in particular is Possessed.

0:40:32.400 --> 0:40:35.280
<v Speaker 2>They were from San Francisco, Okay. They released an album

0:40:35.280 --> 0:40:37.960
<v Speaker 2>called Seven Churches in nineteen eighty five. That was another

0:40:37.960 --> 0:40:40.360
<v Speaker 2>one that I was like, where was I What was

0:40:40.360 --> 0:40:43.080
<v Speaker 2>I doing? Yeah, this is right in my wheelhouse? Like

0:40:43.920 --> 0:40:46.040
<v Speaker 2>how did I not hear possessed? How did I not

0:40:46.080 --> 0:40:49.440
<v Speaker 2>hear a venom? Like? I did not this stuff did

0:40:49.440 --> 0:40:52.880
<v Speaker 2>not cross my path. And this it's like actual legit

0:40:53.560 --> 0:40:56.640
<v Speaker 2>death metal, but it's from nineteen eighty five. Death metal

0:40:56.680 --> 0:40:59.880
<v Speaker 2>wouldn't really start to take off until the later eighties

0:41:00.040 --> 0:41:03.040
<v Speaker 2>early nineties. Yeah, and we should just say death metal

0:41:03.080 --> 0:41:07.120
<v Speaker 2>is like that, like you know, the growling like lyrics

0:41:07.120 --> 0:41:08.960
<v Speaker 2>that you just can't understand. You have to read the

0:41:09.040 --> 0:41:12.319
<v Speaker 2>lyrics while you're listening. Yeah, that is death metal. That's

0:41:12.400 --> 0:41:16.080
<v Speaker 2>like the key characteristic of death metal that anybody could

0:41:16.080 --> 0:41:18.480
<v Speaker 2>come along and be like, oh, that's different than the

0:41:18.520 --> 0:41:20.120
<v Speaker 2>other stuff I'm listening to because of.

0:41:20.080 --> 0:41:22.520
<v Speaker 1>This, Yeah, for sure. And you know why you didn't

0:41:22.520 --> 0:41:23.759
<v Speaker 1>know about it is because you had to know the

0:41:23.800 --> 0:41:25.920
<v Speaker 1>person who knew about it, because it wasn't on the radio.

0:41:26.360 --> 0:41:29.240
<v Speaker 1>Stuff like that wasn't even on MTV. I mean, maybe

0:41:29.840 --> 0:41:32.080
<v Speaker 1>maybe you might see something like that as a deep

0:41:32.080 --> 0:41:35.600
<v Speaker 1>cut on Headbanger's Ball later on, hosted by the Great

0:41:35.680 --> 0:41:39.360
<v Speaker 1>Ricky rockman. But otherwise you just had to know the

0:41:39.400 --> 0:41:40.920
<v Speaker 1>dude who was like, hey, man, have you heard this?

0:41:41.400 --> 0:41:45.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And so they gave birth to Morbid Angel. Autopsy

0:41:45.480 --> 0:41:50.120
<v Speaker 2>Cannibal Corpse is a very very famous death metal band

0:41:50.160 --> 0:41:52.640
<v Speaker 2>from the late eighties and it just keeps going on

0:41:52.680 --> 0:41:57.040
<v Speaker 2>and on and on. Our longtime listener, I think she

0:41:57.080 --> 0:41:58.600
<v Speaker 2>still listens. I haven't talked to her in a while.

0:41:58.800 --> 0:42:02.840
<v Speaker 2>Alisa White Gloves from the band Arch Enemy, Uh huh,

0:42:02.920 --> 0:42:06.360
<v Speaker 2>she listens, or she used to. But Arch Enemy is

0:42:06.440 --> 0:42:12.920
<v Speaker 2>a melodic Swedish death metal band. Yeah, it's just a

0:42:12.920 --> 0:42:15.959
<v Speaker 2>bunch of subgenres put into one. But if you listen

0:42:16.000 --> 0:42:20.440
<v Speaker 2>to Elisa singh she's doing that death metal like guttural singing. Yeah,

0:42:20.480 --> 0:42:23.279
<v Speaker 2>it's just part of death metal, no matter what that

0:42:23.480 --> 0:42:24.720
<v Speaker 2>genres carved into.

0:42:25.160 --> 0:42:28.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, for sure, not fully my thing. I was into

0:42:29.120 --> 0:42:31.840
<v Speaker 1>a little bit of industrial metal that camera around in

0:42:31.880 --> 0:42:34.880
<v Speaker 1>the mid eighties. Ministry, of course is the band that

0:42:34.920 --> 0:42:37.839
<v Speaker 1>comes to mind from Chicago, who were a little more

0:42:37.840 --> 0:42:41.000
<v Speaker 1>of a synthpop They were not what they became for

0:42:41.040 --> 0:42:44.120
<v Speaker 1>sure early on, but they kind of led the way

0:42:44.120 --> 0:42:47.480
<v Speaker 1>for the industrial music scene in the mid eighties. When

0:42:47.520 --> 0:42:49.719
<v Speaker 1>their eighty six album Twitch came out.

0:42:50.200 --> 0:42:54.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and that's I went in that direction toward industrial

0:42:54.320 --> 0:42:57.120
<v Speaker 2>in addition to new wave stuff like I really like

0:42:57.280 --> 0:43:03.040
<v Speaker 2>Nitzer Ebb and met Beat, Manifesto, Skinny Puppy. None of

0:43:03.080 --> 0:43:06.080
<v Speaker 2>those will qualify as metal, but I guess Ministry kind

0:43:06.080 --> 0:43:09.080
<v Speaker 2>of bridge. That was the bridge between metal and just

0:43:09.120 --> 0:43:13.000
<v Speaker 2>straight up industrial. Godflesh they were another one that was

0:43:13.520 --> 0:43:18.480
<v Speaker 2>no question industrial metal. And again, go listen to Godflesh's

0:43:18.520 --> 0:43:20.880
<v Speaker 2>I Guess first album. I can't remember what it's called,

0:43:21.080 --> 0:43:23.640
<v Speaker 2>but it's like a black background with a white minimalist

0:43:24.120 --> 0:43:28.719
<v Speaker 2>kind of face all up in your face, and you'll

0:43:28.719 --> 0:43:30.839
<v Speaker 2>be like, wait, this is metal, And if you listen

0:43:30.880 --> 0:43:33.120
<v Speaker 2>to it, you'll say, yes, this is metal. There's a

0:43:33.160 --> 0:43:36.319
<v Speaker 2>drum machine and you're like, okay, well that seems like cheating. No,

0:43:36.520 --> 0:43:38.680
<v Speaker 2>they use a drum machine because no human being could

0:43:38.719 --> 0:43:41.640
<v Speaker 2>play drums at this slow a pace and not like

0:43:41.719 --> 0:43:44.880
<v Speaker 2>fall asleep or die from boredom. Right, So they have

0:43:44.960 --> 0:43:51.640
<v Speaker 2>a really slow tempo but with traditional like distortion and

0:43:51.719 --> 0:43:55.680
<v Speaker 2>guitars and singing that you would associate with metal, and

0:43:55.680 --> 0:43:57.680
<v Speaker 2>you put it all together and it is really good.

0:43:58.200 --> 0:44:01.879
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I saw a cool interview with the great Mike

0:44:01.960 --> 0:44:04.480
<v Speaker 1>Patten of Faith No More and mister Bungle, one of

0:44:04.640 --> 0:44:08.040
<v Speaker 1>the greatest singers ever in any genre, and he was

0:44:08.040 --> 0:44:11.080
<v Speaker 1>singing the Praises of Godflesh and I went and listened

0:44:11.080 --> 0:44:12.399
<v Speaker 1>to a little bit of it and I was like, man,

0:44:12.440 --> 0:44:14.520
<v Speaker 1>this is like very very heavy stuff.

0:44:14.680 --> 0:44:17.359
<v Speaker 2>It is. Oh, it's super super dark. But they were

0:44:17.360 --> 0:44:20.880
<v Speaker 2>from Birmingham too, so this is like, so Birmingham is

0:44:20.920 --> 0:44:24.600
<v Speaker 2>to metal what Manchester was to britpop. Yeah. Yeah, Like

0:44:24.680 --> 0:44:27.360
<v Speaker 2>it just was this center And what's crazy is it

0:44:27.400 --> 0:44:29.200
<v Speaker 2>was a center for a really long time. I think

0:44:29.200 --> 0:44:33.200
<v Speaker 2>there's still bands coming out of Birmingham that are no bad. Yeah.

0:44:33.280 --> 0:44:36.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. The Grammys got on board in nineteen eighty nine

0:44:36.920 --> 0:44:39.560
<v Speaker 1>and all the wrong ways. They introduced the Best hard

0:44:39.640 --> 0:44:44.040
<v Speaker 1>Rock slash Metal Performance and Metallica's and Justice for All

0:44:44.600 --> 0:44:49.240
<v Speaker 1>very famously lost out to Jethrotl. They had a comeback

0:44:49.239 --> 0:44:54.840
<v Speaker 1>album called Crest of a Knave and everybody immediately was like, Grammys,

0:44:55.320 --> 0:44:57.640
<v Speaker 1>You've never seen more out of touch with what's going

0:44:57.640 --> 0:45:00.959
<v Speaker 1>on in the world and so pretty qui. They were like, oh,

0:45:01.040 --> 0:45:03.799
<v Speaker 1>maybe we'll split the categories and the next year it

0:45:03.840 --> 0:45:07.320
<v Speaker 1>was hard Rock, a hard Rock Award and a Metal Award.

0:45:07.600 --> 0:45:10.480
<v Speaker 1>But they even mess that up. Like, you know, bands

0:45:10.520 --> 0:45:14.120
<v Speaker 1>like Soundgarden one the metal category and stuff like that,

0:45:14.200 --> 0:45:15.919
<v Speaker 1>and like they're not metal either.

0:45:16.160 --> 0:45:18.680
<v Speaker 2>Well, the Grammys aren't really known for being super in

0:45:18.719 --> 0:45:21.640
<v Speaker 2>touch with underground stuff. And that's it's interesting because the

0:45:21.680 --> 0:45:26.120
<v Speaker 2>reason why groups like Soundgarden won the Metal Grammy at

0:45:26.120 --> 0:45:28.960
<v Speaker 2>the time was because grunge just took over. It actually

0:45:28.960 --> 0:45:34.840
<v Speaker 2>pushed metal right out of the limelight or like basically

0:45:35.080 --> 0:45:38.839
<v Speaker 2>starting January first, nineteen ninety, grunge just took over and

0:45:38.840 --> 0:45:41.640
<v Speaker 2>it stayed that way for years, and the metals started

0:45:41.640 --> 0:45:45.240
<v Speaker 2>to kind of come back in a way. New metal

0:45:45.360 --> 0:45:48.080
<v Speaker 2>came along in the mid to late nineties, so like

0:45:48.160 --> 0:45:52.680
<v Speaker 2>you had slip Knot and cornco Park, I guess qualifies

0:45:52.840 --> 0:45:55.000
<v Speaker 2>I'm not either, but I know a lot of people are.

0:45:55.239 --> 0:45:59.520
<v Speaker 2>Like a lot of people got back into metal thanks

0:45:59.520 --> 0:46:02.040
<v Speaker 2>to these guys. They basically they were like, hey, you

0:46:02.160 --> 0:46:05.319
<v Speaker 2>like you like grunge, you like alternative, We're gonna help

0:46:05.360 --> 0:46:08.840
<v Speaker 2>transition you back to metal. And then there was a

0:46:08.920 --> 0:46:12.680
<v Speaker 2>something called the New wave of American heavy metal starting

0:46:12.719 --> 0:46:15.520
<v Speaker 2>in the early two thousands that took back over from

0:46:15.640 --> 0:46:19.120
<v Speaker 2>new metal and brought it back to like legit serious metal,

0:46:19.200 --> 0:46:22.480
<v Speaker 2>like as I Lay Dying, Lamb of God, and of

0:46:22.480 --> 0:46:24.959
<v Speaker 2>course High End Fire and a bunch of other bands

0:46:24.960 --> 0:46:28.160
<v Speaker 2>that are still coming out in America and around the world.

0:46:28.200 --> 0:46:31.080
<v Speaker 2>So metal came back. Whether you like new metal or not,

0:46:31.239 --> 0:46:34.760
<v Speaker 2>you can thank them for bringing metal back from obscurity

0:46:34.960 --> 0:46:39.120
<v Speaker 2>in the late nineties early two thousands. Thank you, Corn, Yeah,

0:46:39.160 --> 0:46:40.040
<v Speaker 2>thanks a lot. Corn.

0:46:41.000 --> 0:46:43.080
<v Speaker 1>Alt metal was a thing too in the in the

0:46:43.200 --> 0:46:45.200
<v Speaker 1>late nineties and kind of early two thousands. I think

0:46:45.200 --> 0:46:47.439
<v Speaker 1>people consider a Tool kind of an alt metal band,

0:46:48.040 --> 0:46:50.799
<v Speaker 1>a band called System of a Down. I listened to

0:46:50.800 --> 0:46:53.560
<v Speaker 1>some Tool, but they're another band that has a very

0:46:53.719 --> 0:46:57.640
<v Speaker 1>very very hardcore loyal following, yeah, for sure. And then

0:46:57.719 --> 0:47:01.000
<v Speaker 1>progressive metal that kind of I've been around in the eighties,

0:47:01.000 --> 0:47:02.919
<v Speaker 1>like a band like Queen's Reich, who I never really

0:47:03.080 --> 0:47:08.319
<v Speaker 1>liked that much, could probably be considered prog metal, as

0:47:08.320 --> 0:47:10.560
<v Speaker 1>well as a band called Dream Theater, who are also

0:47:10.960 --> 0:47:14.120
<v Speaker 1>very popular and very have fans that are like super loyal.

0:47:15.120 --> 0:47:18.600
<v Speaker 2>I remember listening to Queen's reck Operation mind Crime as

0:47:18.640 --> 0:47:20.279
<v Speaker 2>like a twelve year old and being like, I don't

0:47:20.280 --> 0:47:24.160
<v Speaker 2>get it. Yeah, this is where the crime way too

0:47:24.239 --> 0:47:25.920
<v Speaker 2>grown up for me, right exactly?

0:47:26.560 --> 0:47:29.360
<v Speaker 1>You know what the crime is? These lyrics.

0:47:29.560 --> 0:47:33.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Pantera was another one that actually kept metal alive

0:47:33.640 --> 0:47:37.640
<v Speaker 2>during the grunge years. They I did not know this.

0:47:37.719 --> 0:47:41.200
<v Speaker 2>Pantera started out the Cowboys from Hell, started out as

0:47:41.200 --> 0:47:44.719
<v Speaker 2>a glam rock band, spandex, big hair and everything, and

0:47:44.760 --> 0:47:48.200
<v Speaker 2>eventually they shifted into more of a metal sound, and

0:47:48.280 --> 0:47:50.840
<v Speaker 2>they were one of the pioneers of what's called groove metal,

0:47:51.080 --> 0:47:54.800
<v Speaker 2>which is essentially what it sounds like. It's catchier metal.

0:47:54.840 --> 0:47:58.520
<v Speaker 2>I think there's more refrains to it, and I'm just

0:47:58.640 --> 0:48:01.719
<v Speaker 2>speaking musically. It's not it has nothing to do with

0:48:01.760 --> 0:48:03.920
<v Speaker 2>like jam bands or anything like that. It's just as

0:48:03.920 --> 0:48:06.560
<v Speaker 2>far as metal goes. It's probably the groovyest version of

0:48:06.600 --> 0:48:08.040
<v Speaker 2>metal you could you could do.

0:48:08.880 --> 0:48:10.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think that's pretty accurate.

0:48:11.320 --> 0:48:13.520
<v Speaker 2>A couple other things, Chuck. Did we talk about the

0:48:13.560 --> 0:48:14.040
<v Speaker 2>Big Four?

0:48:15.239 --> 0:48:18.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we talked about the Big Four earlier of thrash bands,

0:48:18.719 --> 0:48:23.360
<v Speaker 1>which of course Metallica, Megadeath, Anthrax, and Slayer.

0:48:24.200 --> 0:48:27.640
<v Speaker 2>Were you into Slayer or Megadeth or Metallica or Anthrax, No,

0:48:27.840 --> 0:48:28.120
<v Speaker 2>I was.

0:48:28.200 --> 0:48:30.120
<v Speaker 1>I got into Metallica at one point when I lived

0:48:30.120 --> 0:48:32.279
<v Speaker 1>in New Jersey because a friend of mine listened to them,

0:48:32.480 --> 0:48:34.640
<v Speaker 1>and so I listened to Master Puppets and Ride the

0:48:34.719 --> 0:48:38.400
<v Speaker 1>Lightning and Injustice for All like those are great records,

0:48:39.200 --> 0:48:40.959
<v Speaker 1>a little bit of Anthrax here and there, but those

0:48:41.040 --> 0:48:44.840
<v Speaker 1>generally weren't my thing. Definitely never really listened to Megadeath.

0:48:45.760 --> 0:48:48.360
<v Speaker 1>I know Dave Mustaine has a has a reputation in

0:48:48.400 --> 0:48:52.040
<v Speaker 1>the industry. He was let go of from Metallica, yeah,

0:48:52.080 --> 0:48:55.040
<v Speaker 1>and hasn't stopped complaining about it for forty three years.

0:48:55.360 --> 0:48:57.680
<v Speaker 2>I saw an interview with him that he's where he

0:48:57.840 --> 0:49:01.400
<v Speaker 2>said like I own that, Like I was, like I

0:49:01.400 --> 0:49:04.400
<v Speaker 2>had to quit drinking because I was so just agro

0:49:04.520 --> 0:49:07.440
<v Speaker 2>and violent whenever I did. But yeah, he was not

0:49:07.480 --> 0:49:10.000
<v Speaker 2>happy about it. But metal fans are happy because he

0:49:10.080 --> 0:49:14.279
<v Speaker 2>went on to found Megadeath basically to spite Metallica, and

0:49:14.320 --> 0:49:16.759
<v Speaker 2>they became huge in their own right. But I was

0:49:16.800 --> 0:49:19.520
<v Speaker 2>never into them. I really want to be into Slayer,

0:49:19.920 --> 0:49:23.040
<v Speaker 2>Like I have Rain and Blood on my phone, which

0:49:23.080 --> 0:49:24.839
<v Speaker 2>is not a super metal thing to say, but it's

0:49:24.880 --> 0:49:28.359
<v Speaker 2>the truth, and I just like I can listen to it,

0:49:28.400 --> 0:49:30.880
<v Speaker 2>but I'm not like, damn, this is good, Like I

0:49:31.160 --> 0:49:33.440
<v Speaker 2>just can't get into Slayer. I've never really been into

0:49:33.480 --> 0:49:35.360
<v Speaker 2>Mega Deaths, but despite trying to.

0:49:37.360 --> 0:49:39.319
<v Speaker 1>When he left, he said, I'll show you, guys, I'll

0:49:39.320 --> 0:49:41.880
<v Speaker 1>go on to found a band that will never be

0:49:41.960 --> 0:49:43.520
<v Speaker 1>as good or as popular as you will be.

0:49:44.480 --> 0:49:46.560
<v Speaker 2>It's got Seriously, I hope it doesn't stick in his

0:49:46.600 --> 0:49:49.279
<v Speaker 2>crawl because that is that would be hard to get over.

0:49:50.000 --> 0:49:51.960
<v Speaker 1>I think he's kind of well known in the industry.

0:49:51.960 --> 0:49:54.520
<v Speaker 1>There's a couple of metal people that a lot of

0:49:54.560 --> 0:49:57.359
<v Speaker 1>metal people don't like. Dave Mustain is one, and then

0:49:57.520 --> 0:50:02.200
<v Speaker 1>Lars Ulrich, the drummer from Metallica, is another. Even Metallica fans,

0:50:02.239 --> 0:50:04.440
<v Speaker 1>there's a lot of them that are like, god, Lars,

0:50:04.480 --> 0:50:06.680
<v Speaker 1>just shut up. Interesting.

0:50:06.960 --> 0:50:09.760
<v Speaker 2>What do you think about Yeah, he does, Yeah, because

0:50:09.800 --> 0:50:13.520
<v Speaker 2>some of them are so like vocal about their opinions

0:50:13.520 --> 0:50:16.040
<v Speaker 2>and how awesome they are and how terrible other bands are.

0:50:16.360 --> 0:50:16.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:50:16.600 --> 0:50:19.239
<v Speaker 2>Sure, yeah, I'm sure. How about this, Let's say we

0:50:19.280 --> 0:50:21.400
<v Speaker 2>wrap it up talking a little bit about black metal,

0:50:21.520 --> 0:50:23.719
<v Speaker 2>and then we'll move on to part two.

0:50:24.080 --> 0:50:25.799
<v Speaker 1>What do you think that sounds good?

0:50:25.920 --> 0:50:29.080
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so we can't wrap before we talk about black metal,

0:50:29.120 --> 0:50:32.800
<v Speaker 2>which was something that also emerged out of thrash, or

0:50:32.840 --> 0:50:34.719
<v Speaker 2>actually I think it emerged out of death metal, to

0:50:34.719 --> 0:50:37.760
<v Speaker 2>tell you the truth. But where death metal is like guttural,

0:50:40.040 --> 0:50:45.600
<v Speaker 2>black metal is screaming. Essentially, it's just a higher pitched

0:50:45.640 --> 0:50:50.080
<v Speaker 2>of not understandable lyrics. You have to read the lyrics

0:50:50.120 --> 0:50:53.600
<v Speaker 2>along with it. But it is so death metal is

0:50:53.640 --> 0:50:57.680
<v Speaker 2>like gory and like just go look at Cannibal Corpses

0:50:57.719 --> 0:51:00.520
<v Speaker 2>Butchered at Birth album covering. You'll get an idea of

0:51:00.520 --> 0:51:04.400
<v Speaker 2>what death metal is about. Yeah, black metal is legit

0:51:04.920 --> 0:51:10.840
<v Speaker 2>the kind of satanic metal that the censors of the

0:51:10.920 --> 0:51:15.160
<v Speaker 2>nineteen eighties and the pastors of the satanic panic were

0:51:15.280 --> 0:51:18.920
<v Speaker 2>actually scared of that didn't exist yet. Black metal is

0:51:19.040 --> 0:51:20.440
<v Speaker 2>that so.

0:51:20.360 --> 0:51:22.799
<v Speaker 1>Does like is Merciful Fate and King Diamond do they

0:51:23.080 --> 0:51:24.280
<v Speaker 1>are they thrown into that group.

0:51:25.360 --> 0:51:29.719
<v Speaker 2>I think the progenitors of black metal were Venom all

0:51:29.719 --> 0:51:33.120
<v Speaker 2>the way back in nineteen eighty one. They were actually

0:51:33.120 --> 0:51:35.799
<v Speaker 2>part of the new wave of British heavy metal. They

0:51:36.080 --> 0:51:38.520
<v Speaker 2>like they had a picture of Baphomet in an upside

0:51:38.560 --> 0:51:42.719
<v Speaker 2>down star on the cover, right, so I could see

0:51:42.800 --> 0:51:47.000
<v Speaker 2>suburban parents being actually scared of Venom. Bathory from Sweden

0:51:47.040 --> 0:51:49.160
<v Speaker 2>they were another one from nineteen eighty four, and then

0:51:49.200 --> 0:51:52.640
<v Speaker 2>Mayhem is the one that like took black metal into

0:51:52.680 --> 0:51:56.839
<v Speaker 2>like the actual like this is kind of scary realm

0:51:57.360 --> 0:51:59.600
<v Speaker 2>and because they actually did stuff in real life that

0:51:59.640 --> 0:52:05.160
<v Speaker 2>involved like death and suicide and murder and church arson

0:52:05.200 --> 0:52:09.120
<v Speaker 2>and stuff like that. It was like the Norwegian black

0:52:09.120 --> 0:52:14.640
<v Speaker 2>metal in particular there scene at least it was kind

0:52:14.640 --> 0:52:18.279
<v Speaker 2>of dangerous. It's really just you can't say that that's

0:52:18.320 --> 0:52:18.880
<v Speaker 2>not true.

0:52:19.280 --> 0:52:21.560
<v Speaker 1>Well, yeah, like you said, there was a literal murder

0:52:21.600 --> 0:52:25.759
<v Speaker 1>in the band Mayhem, and I will issue a huge

0:52:25.800 --> 0:52:29.359
<v Speaker 1>trigger warning and encourage you not to go look this up.

0:52:30.040 --> 0:52:32.880
<v Speaker 1>But you can't talk about Mayhem without talking about the

0:52:34.120 --> 0:52:36.880
<v Speaker 1>worst album cover of all time. Down of the Black

0:52:36.920 --> 0:52:41.160
<v Speaker 1>Hearts is a photograph. It was a bootleg album but

0:52:41.400 --> 0:52:43.880
<v Speaker 1>became very famous because it showed a photograph that the

0:52:43.920 --> 0:52:48.600
<v Speaker 1>band took of an image of their lead singer right

0:52:48.640 --> 0:52:54.800
<v Speaker 1>after he had died by suicide by shotgun. And it's awful. Yeah,

0:52:54.920 --> 0:52:56.920
<v Speaker 1>no other way to describe it, but just horrific.

0:52:57.080 --> 0:52:59.520
<v Speaker 2>It's essentially a close up and it's exactly what you

0:52:59.520 --> 0:53:02.080
<v Speaker 2>would think it looked like. But like that was their

0:53:02.160 --> 0:53:05.279
<v Speaker 2>album cover, a bootleg, like you said, true, but the

0:53:06.520 --> 0:53:10.920
<v Speaker 2>picture was taken by one of Mayhem's band members, Uronymous,

0:53:11.480 --> 0:53:14.040
<v Speaker 2>and apparently arrange the scene to make it a better

0:53:14.080 --> 0:53:18.839
<v Speaker 2>looking photo, and hadn't even like contacted the cops yet

0:53:18.880 --> 0:53:22.880
<v Speaker 2>to say like, hey, my friend killed himself. He was

0:53:22.920 --> 0:53:26.080
<v Speaker 2>taking pictures of it instead, so like this was like

0:53:26.160 --> 0:53:29.520
<v Speaker 2>this was this is black metal. Well there, it's also

0:53:29.800 --> 0:53:33.959
<v Speaker 2>rife with white supremacists and I'm not so I don't.

0:53:34.320 --> 0:53:37.839
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure positive that there are black metal bands out

0:53:37.840 --> 0:53:41.839
<v Speaker 2>there that are not down with all of that. Yea,

0:53:41.880 --> 0:53:45.359
<v Speaker 2>they are still really good, but I would guess that

0:53:45.360 --> 0:53:48.120
<v Speaker 2>they're not the majority. And I don't mean to put

0:53:48.160 --> 0:53:50.320
<v Speaker 2>down the whole thing and sound like a pearl clutching

0:53:50.800 --> 0:53:53.200
<v Speaker 2>like parent, because I'm not. I'm just trying to get

0:53:53.239 --> 0:53:59.480
<v Speaker 2>across like how like legitimate what these guys are saying is,

0:54:00.080 --> 0:54:01.919
<v Speaker 2>and like if you read the lyrics, they're like, Wow,

0:54:02.000 --> 0:54:05.200
<v Speaker 2>this is really nuts, man, it's cool. And I don't

0:54:05.239 --> 0:54:09.520
<v Speaker 2>actually know where these guys fall, like if they're white

0:54:09.520 --> 0:54:13.600
<v Speaker 2>supremacists or anything, but I know that they are exemplary

0:54:14.080 --> 0:54:19.120
<v Speaker 2>of Norwegian or Scandinavian black metal called Emperor, and they

0:54:19.160 --> 0:54:22.160
<v Speaker 2>have a song called The Loss and the Curse of Grace.

0:54:22.239 --> 0:54:25.759
<v Speaker 2>I think it's got a great video, like it's it's

0:54:25.800 --> 0:54:28.799
<v Speaker 2>a really cool song. Read the lyrics along with the

0:54:28.880 --> 0:54:32.239
<v Speaker 2>song and you'll be like, Okay, I understand black metal

0:54:32.719 --> 0:54:34.799
<v Speaker 2>that's a great entree to it. I think, all right,

0:54:34.880 --> 0:54:38.040
<v Speaker 2>I'll do it, Okay, but I don't I'm not really

0:54:38.040 --> 0:54:41.160
<v Speaker 2>into the sound because I've read that it's deliberately meant

0:54:41.200 --> 0:54:47.040
<v Speaker 2>to be noisy and put off people like me. Squares, Yeah,

0:54:47.480 --> 0:54:52.040
<v Speaker 2>just let's just say it. Yes, squares who are from Scandinavia.

0:54:52.160 --> 0:54:56.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, all right, that's a super sized part one.

0:54:56.640 --> 0:54:58.719
<v Speaker 1>I think we'll probably have the supercized part two. And

0:54:59.480 --> 0:55:02.120
<v Speaker 1>there's also going to be a fun little short stuff

0:55:02.160 --> 0:55:03.880
<v Speaker 1>this week. So I guess we should just call this

0:55:04.000 --> 0:55:07.520
<v Speaker 1>metal week. And we don't do listener mails at the

0:55:07.600 --> 0:55:10.520
<v Speaker 1>end of a part one, right, No, no.

0:55:10.600 --> 0:55:10.959
<v Speaker 2>We don't.

0:55:11.160 --> 0:55:12.919
<v Speaker 1>So take us home, baby.

0:55:12.719 --> 0:55:15.400
<v Speaker 2>Okay you ready. Yeah, we are gonna stop. We are

0:55:15.400 --> 0:55:18.440
<v Speaker 2>gonna stop. We are gonna we are gonna we are

0:55:18.480 --> 0:55:21.480
<v Speaker 2>gonna stop. Stop stop stop, we are gonna stop here.

0:55:26.440 --> 0:55:29.279
<v Speaker 1>Stuff you should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

0:55:29.400 --> 0:55:33.560
<v Speaker 1>more podcasts my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

0:55:33.680 --> 0:55:35.480
<v Speaker 1>or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.