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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: What are your name? And welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh,

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Speaker 2: there's Chuck. It's just the two of us, and I

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Speaker 2: think we should greet all the metal heads listening by.

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Speaker 1: Saying, shwing, Wow, you ready for this one?

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Speaker 2: Huh? I am. I'm pretty psyched. I'm not going to lie.

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Speaker 2: I haven't been this nervous since maybe we did soccer.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree. I mean, we might as well issue

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Speaker 1: the cover the CoA for the entire two parter. We're

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Speaker 1: gonna miss a lot. This is about heavy metal, and

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Speaker 1: anytime you're doing a big genre like this, it's really

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Speaker 1: hard to satisfy everybody. So we will not name specifically

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Speaker 1: your favorite band most likely.

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Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, there's a pretty good chance. We are

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Speaker 2: also probably going to walk by some amazing fact. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: don't call us stupid. When you email in to tell us,

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Speaker 2: just tell us be like, guys, get this. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 2: the kind of email we like to get.

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Speaker 1: That's the kind of email that gets read on the air.

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Speaker 1: It's like, Hey, I know you can't get to everything,

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Speaker 1: but you missed this kind of really cool thing. Let

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Speaker 1: me tell you about it.

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Speaker 2: Way to use a carrot rather than a stick.

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Speaker 1: Chuk So it is just really intimidating. I agree because

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Speaker 1: and I want to chat just at the jump here

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Speaker 1: about our metalness because I am not a metal head.

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Speaker 1: My metal experience is largely from high school as a

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Speaker 1: gen xer in the eighties hair metal.

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Speaker 2: So same here, buddy.

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Speaker 1: Okay, that's good. So my top five metal bands, and

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Speaker 1: I've gotten since into like Black Sabbath and stuff like

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Speaker 1: that a little bit more. But my top five metal

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Speaker 1: bands look like this, and that tells you a lot

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Speaker 1: about what kind of metal fan I am. Sabbath number one,

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Speaker 1: Ozzy number too, okay, Motley Crue, then Rat, and then

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Speaker 1: the Scorpions.

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Speaker 2: Oh really, Rat huh they were pretty good.

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Speaker 1: Rat's awesome.

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Speaker 2: Scorpions were good too. That whole Winds a Change thing, Man,

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Speaker 2: that's a stirring song.

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Speaker 1: That's probably my least favorite. But those are the bands

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Speaker 1: that I love. I listen on, you know, I got

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Speaker 1: sometimes you get a free serious XM a couple of

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Speaker 1: weeks or whatever.

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Speaker 2: Lucky.

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Speaker 1: I got very addicted to the hair Nation channel.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, man, that stuff still plays really well.

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Speaker 1: It does. I love it, and I even like all

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Speaker 1: the kind of corny stuff from then, like put on

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Speaker 1: that White Lion song and watch watch Me Go to

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Speaker 1: Town that song. Wait, yeah, I love that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah that is good. Yeah, I know all those songs too.

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Speaker 2: I would even take a little further and say I

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Speaker 2: like Dokin. Okay, I want to make a joke about

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Speaker 2: liking Winger, but there are some Winger songs that I

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Speaker 2: kind of liked, but like Far and Away and I

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Speaker 2: Will I Will die on this hill. The best hair

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Speaker 2: metal band of all time was Poison. I mean, no

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Speaker 2: questions asked.

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Speaker 1: Would you say Poison?

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Speaker 2: Poison? You know why?

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Speaker 1: Go ahead? What now? You tell me why, and then

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you what's funny?

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Speaker 2: Okay, fair enough. So the reason why I say Poison

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Speaker 2: is the best hair metal band of all time is

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Speaker 2: because they were highly talented, but they were also totally

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Speaker 2: in on the cheesiness of the whole thing too. You

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Speaker 2: think they did not take themselves too seriously. You can

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Speaker 2: make an argument that every rose has its thorns pretty

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Speaker 2: meant pretty seriously. Yeah, But I mean, like I want

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Speaker 2: action tonight, Yeah, nothing but a good time. Like those

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Speaker 2: dudes were not like trying to be serious. There's no

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Speaker 2: shout at the devil or anything like that. They were

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Speaker 2: just partying. Yeah, I mean they were the perfect hair

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Speaker 2: metal band to me.

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Speaker 1: You can't write a song called unskinny Bob and claim

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Speaker 1: to be like a serious band, right exactly. That's a

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Speaker 1: good point, Like Gasoline, you want to help me, that's

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Speaker 1: right exactly.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So what was funny?

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Speaker 1: What was funny is is at some point we're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about, you know, how sort of white male

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Speaker 1: most metal is. And Olivia, who helped us with this,

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Speaker 1: you know, was able to source some some women in metal,

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Speaker 1: including full bands, and she didn't find Vixen. I was like,

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Speaker 1: wait a minute, that was Vixen, And then I typed

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Speaker 1: into Google search female heavy metal or hair metal bands

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Speaker 1: and instead Vixen and Poison.

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Speaker 2: That's hilarious. You got that one wrong, Ai.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that was pretty funny. What are your top five?

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Speaker 1: Do you have a working top five? And not the

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Speaker 1: joke that you sent me via text?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? So mine's actually changed in the last couple of days.

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Speaker 2: I have to say, Oh, it used to be time, wasn't.

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Speaker 2: I listened to most of my metal in like eighth

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Speaker 2: ninth grade, probably around the same time you did. I

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Speaker 2: was like Metallica just unquestionably is my number one metal band.

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Speaker 2: Oh okay, I think and Justice for All is maybe

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Speaker 2: the perfect metal album.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I like that early stuff. I like to Ride

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Speaker 1: the Lightning and Master Puppets. That was good.

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Speaker 2: I do too, but I didn't like those until I

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Speaker 2: was old. Actually, within the last several years I started

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Speaker 2: listening to those two. I was like, damn, these are

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Speaker 2: really good too. It's just different. It's way less produced, yeah,

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Speaker 2: way more you know, like it's just more thrash, right yeah.

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Speaker 2: But so that kind of goes to show you my taste,

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Speaker 2: Like I like Metallic as their most produced good album. Okay,

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Speaker 2: So that's that's there. They're unquestionably my favorite. Black Sabbath

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Speaker 2: is probably number two or a close at their Heels

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Speaker 2: Nipping at their Heels as Poison, Okay. I really like Helmet,

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Speaker 2: which is the alt metal band from the nineties.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I love Helmet.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Helmet was great. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I guess I didn't really think about alt metal, but sure.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, so yeah, I'm having to include them this. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I think kind of a revelation, like I'm I'm having

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Speaker 2: to include alt metal here right right, I can't. Maybe

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Speaker 2: Anthrax would probably be number five, right, especially in eighth grade,

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Speaker 2: I loved Anthrax.

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Speaker 1: So not Iron Maiden. That surprises me.

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Speaker 2: Oh god, why did I do that? Yeah? No Iron Maiden. Okay,

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry. You're right, Chuck, thank you. I was even

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Speaker 2: going through my my Apple music folder still look to

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Speaker 2: refresh myself. I've got like five Iron Maiden albums in

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Speaker 2: there too, so I'm not sure how they got left out.

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Speaker 2: Let's say Maiden's number two then.

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Speaker 1: Okay, that's great. I have been listening to the Iron

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Speaker 1: Maiden lately. You know, I was an MTV kid, so

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Speaker 1: I know that was my big influence. So I know

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Speaker 1: the Iron Maiden songs that had big videos, but I

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Speaker 1: never really dove in and kind of the same with

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Speaker 1: Judas Priest, even though I have gotten way more into

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Speaker 1: them lately and I think I mentioned I'm going to

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Speaker 1: actually see them later this year. And that was the

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Speaker 1: other thing is like I was way more into other music,

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Speaker 1: like in the eighth, the ninth and tenth grade, that's

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Speaker 1: when I was really started listening to like in Excess

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Speaker 1: and The Smiths and Ram and The Cure. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: that was my jam. But like if you were an

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Speaker 1: MTV kid and a radio kid like you. You kind

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Speaker 1: of listened to all that stuff, but I wasn't the

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Speaker 1: one going to see those you know, I never saw

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Speaker 1: Ozzie live and stuff like that. Like those those kids

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Speaker 1: in my high school kind of scared me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well they could be kind of scary. Yeah, I

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Speaker 2: think that's one of the reasons they were into it

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Speaker 2: for sure. Yeah. So just to update my list though, Okay,

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Speaker 2: Talk is still number one. Yeah, Black Sabbath or sorry

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Speaker 2: I remade, still number two. Sabbath is in there somewhere.

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Speaker 2: But there's a couple new bands that I'm like. These

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Speaker 2: guys are really good. Gojira, which is a French I

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Speaker 2: think they like they transcend a bunch of different sub genres.

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Speaker 2: So let's just say they're a French metal band and

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Speaker 2: they're very good. They actually played at the Summer Olympic

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Speaker 2: opening ceremonies. You remember the dudes who were like thrashing

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Speaker 2: when ye like standing on the bilink. That's Gojira. Okay,

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Speaker 2: I really like Godflesh. I don't know how I missed

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Speaker 2: them because I was into industrial in high school too.

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Speaker 1: They're they're industrial medal.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I love them right, Yeah, And then I'm really

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Speaker 2: now into High on Fire. Have you heard of them?

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Speaker 1: I heard of them, but I don't know anything about it.

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Speaker 2: They're amazing, Okay, I like everything. I've heard of them,

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Speaker 2: and they're playing in Baltimore in mid August. Oh you

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Speaker 2: me and I are seriously you got to go maybe,

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Speaker 2: Oh I like them that much?

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Speaker 1: Now, yeah, you just you're being COI because you don't

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Speaker 1: want all the High on Fire people to be.

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Speaker 2: Like, where's Josh. All right, let's get down to business,

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Speaker 2: shall we.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Like I said, Livia helped us out with this,

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Speaker 1: and so she starts off with the definition from the

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Speaker 1: Encyclopedia Britannica, which you know, it's kind of silly, but

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Speaker 1: sometimes we do that because like it's kind of hard

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Speaker 1: to define metal, as we'll see. And I have a

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Speaker 1: lot of nitpicks with a lot of these bands that

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Speaker 1: I don't consider metal that are in this material.

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Speaker 2: But oh yeah, a lot of them. I mean there

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Speaker 2: are a few, but a lot.

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Speaker 1: We'll see as we go. Okay, all right, maybe you

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Speaker 1: just keep a time or a dinger or something.

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Speaker 2: Clicker, clicker there, there you go.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, But Britannica says it's a genre that includes a

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Speaker 1: group of related styles that are intense, virtuostic, and powerful,

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Speaker 1: and includes distorted electric guitar. The virtuostick really rings to

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Speaker 1: me because one thing like, there's no metal band that

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Speaker 1: doesn't have a great guitar player, maybe two, maybe three, you.

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Speaker 2: Know, yeah, no, I agree, And are you taking a

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Speaker 2: shot at me with the maybe three part?

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Speaker 1: No, not taking a shot like Iron Maiden has three.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they have three guitarists, man, and you can hear it. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: you can totally tell, Like, yeah, Maiden, it is pretty great.

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Speaker 2: We'll talk a little more about Maiden in depth in

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Speaker 2: a second, right, But I think you just kind of

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Speaker 2: laid it out there, like there's that's as tight a

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Speaker 2: definition as you can really kind of corral all of

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Speaker 2: metal into. Just because there's so much varied stuff. It's

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Speaker 2: like a really fractured genre of music. Yeah, there's subgenres

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Speaker 2: of subgenres, and there's probably subgenres of subgenres of subgenres.

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Speaker 2: Like that's how niche some of this stuff is. Like

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Speaker 2: if the average person came along and listened to you know,

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Speaker 2: some similar subgenres are closely really related subgenres, they would

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Speaker 2: not be able to tell the difference. Some of the subgenres,

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Speaker 2: like are pretty different, and the average person could tell

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Speaker 2: the difference, but when it gets super niche you really

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Speaker 2: have to be a fan to be able to be like,

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Speaker 2: oh no, this is this is technical thrash, yeah, death core,

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Speaker 2: you know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, for sure. There is another little bit from

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Speaker 1: the Grammys, because now the Grammys has awards for this

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Speaker 1: kind of thing, where they mentioned dark lyrics that may

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Speaker 1: focus on social issues or fantasy and myth. That's kind

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Speaker 1: of important because I found when I was nitpicking and

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Speaker 1: these are just this is just Chuckstam opinion. But sometimes

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Speaker 1: the difference was very small as far as like, you know,

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Speaker 1: all the trappings of metal, but I still don't consider

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Speaker 1: it metal because maybe a very nitpicky reason, but you know,

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Speaker 1: if you're singing it's heavy gets are and you're singing

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Speaker 1: about Lord of the Rings, chances are you're heavy metal.

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Speaker 1: Except your led Zeppelin to me, is not heavy metal.

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Speaker 1: They're hard rock as far as I'm concerned.

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Speaker 2: No, led Zeppelin is always has always said like, we're

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Speaker 2: not heavy metal. We never have been. We're like blues rock,

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Speaker 2: hard rock, maybe heavy rock. I don't know, but they've

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Speaker 2: always said we're not heavy metal, even though like most

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Speaker 2: metal historians will point to them, at least to some degree,

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Speaker 2: is one of the founders or progenitors of heavy metal

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Speaker 2: for sure.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and also want to point out the Grammy's miss something.

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Speaker 1: They said that when they were focusing on the lyrics

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Speaker 1: dark lyrics that may focus on social issues or fantasy

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Speaker 1: and myth, they forgot or girls, girls, girls.

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Speaker 2: Right for sure, because hair.

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Speaker 1: Metal not a lot of social issues, not a lot

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Speaker 1: of fantasy, not a lot of myth. That was a

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Speaker 1: specific period in the eighties where they were mostly singing

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Speaker 1: about girls, and sometimes in a very gross way.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. I mean it's definitely the world's definitely

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Speaker 2: evolved past the hair metal view of the world.

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Speaker 1: Yeah for sure.

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Speaker 2: Still fun poison, still just wants nothing but a good

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Speaker 2: time everybody.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So we did talk about led Zeppelin. There's actually what's

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Speaker 2: known is the Unholy Trinity of hard rock, and led

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Speaker 2: Zeppelin's considered one of them.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I agreed.

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Speaker 2: And yes, no one's going to say, like, I don't know,

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Speaker 2: they're not hard rock, it's just are they Are they

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Speaker 2: heavy metal or were they just help helpful and laying

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Speaker 2: the groundwork for heavy metal? And like you said, one

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Speaker 2: of the things that led Zeppelin did. They were singing

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Speaker 2: about Lord of the Rings before, you know, before Orlando

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Speaker 2: Bloom was even born.

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Speaker 1: Right, Uh yeah, I mean there's a guy that Libya

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Speaker 1: found named Jack Mannon of the Metal Hall of Fame

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Speaker 1: who said that, you know, they have lyrics related to

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Speaker 1: the occult high fantasy like Lord of the Rings of War,

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Speaker 1: distorted guitar, a loud, long haired, you know, great lead singer,

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Speaker 1: and like again all those things is fair are fairly metal,

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Speaker 1: but I just I don't know, there's something about it.

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Speaker 1: They're just more hard blues rock to me.

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Speaker 2: For sure, And a lot of other groups from the

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Speaker 2: sixties you would kind of lump led Zeppelin in with

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Speaker 2: because they were all starting to experiment with really distortion

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Speaker 2: heavy guitar. Yeah, but they were blues rock for sure,

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Speaker 2: like Cream the Yardbirds, which actually like gave birth to

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Speaker 2: led Zeppelin, it turns out. Yeah, Jimmy Hendrix was another one. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: he has a metal tie in though. Lemmy Killmeister was

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Speaker 2: a roadie for Jimmy Hendrix before he went on to

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Speaker 2: found the band Motorhead.

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Speaker 1: I was today years old, did not know that?

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Speaker 2: Isn't that a great little fact?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? That's really great.

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Speaker 2: Man, can you imagine those two together on acid?

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Speaker 1: No? Yes, Actually, Deep Purple is the second of the

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Speaker 1: Unholy Trinity of Rock. They were formed the nineteen sixty eight,

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Speaker 1: but again a little more like prog rock to me.

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Speaker 1: I think by their fourth album, which was Deep Purple

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Speaker 1: in rock is when they replaced their singer with a

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Speaker 1: guy named Ian Yllen and their basis with a guy

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Speaker 1: named Roger Glover. They got a little heavier then. But

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Speaker 1: you know, they they might be classified as a proto

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Speaker 1: metal because of their guitar player, Richie Blackmore, who was

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Speaker 1: a legend who went over to be He went on

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Speaker 1: to be the to form the band Rainbow, which was

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Speaker 1: definitely metal.

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Speaker 2: Is it. I've seen people say no, it's definitely hard rock,

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Speaker 2: because I was like, no, this sounds a lot like

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Speaker 2: metal to me. I like them.

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Speaker 1: I thought Rainbow was metal. But again, these are just

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Speaker 1: our nitpicking definitions.

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Speaker 2: But that's a good I mean, that's a good point.

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Speaker 2: That's a good demonstration, like you can really get metal

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Speaker 2: fans arguing by just saying confidently, like no, Rainbow's metal.

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Speaker 2: People will start arguing with you, for sure.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And then Sabbath comes along and to me, they're

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Speaker 1: very much sort of the birth of metal, And I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of that has to do like the

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Speaker 1: difference between them and led Zeppelin. To me, even though

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Speaker 1: there are a lot of similarities, is Ozzie's voice was

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Speaker 1: just he had a very sinister, kind of creepy sounding voice,

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Speaker 1: and their music just sounded more sinister than led Zeppelin.

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Speaker 2: And that just sounded like they were like the stuff

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Speaker 2: they sang about. Yeah, especially today, you're like, yeah, that's metal.

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Speaker 2: But when you look back at what the time they

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Speaker 2: were coming out of, we're talking like the free love,

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Speaker 2: hippie sixties. Oh yeah, they came right out of that.

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Speaker 2: And so a lot of people point to Black Sabbath

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Speaker 2: not just as like the birth of heavy metal, but

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Speaker 2: the end of the sixties, like the thing that said like, hey,

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Speaker 2: we're going in a much different direction and it's not

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Speaker 2: nearly as pleasant and colorful as you guys have been

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Speaker 2: taking things.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, of course we're talking about the dearly departed,

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Speaker 1: recently departed Ozzy Osbourne. Yeah, rip Tony Iomi guitar player

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Speaker 1: Geezer Butler was a bassis in bill Ward on drums,

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Speaker 1: and they were originally a blues band called Earth Blues Company.

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Speaker 1: Eventually you become Earth only Earth or from Birmingham, England.

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Speaker 1: As you'll see, that'll be a recurring motif here. And

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Speaker 1: the name Black Sabbath came from the fact that it

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Speaker 1: sounds like Geezer Butler.

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Speaker 2: Again.

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Speaker 1: Their bass player had sleep paralysis.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it does sound like that, doesn't it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, what happened?

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Speaker 2: He dreamt that there was a dark figure standing at

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Speaker 2: the foot of his bed, and so he wrote a song.

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Speaker 2: They named it. He wrote a song about that, and

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Speaker 2: they named it Black Sabbath. And the Black Sabbath is

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Speaker 2: taken from a Bors Karloff movie about a talking boat

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Speaker 2: that wins a regatta for a group of orphans. Karloff

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Speaker 2: does the voice of the boat. And they ended up

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Speaker 2: having to change their name because some other band was like,

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Speaker 2: hey man, we're Earth, and then I'm sure another band

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Speaker 2: was like, no, we're Earth, and then it just kept

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Speaker 2: going on from there. Either way. Sabbath saw the writing

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Speaker 2: on the wall, so they were like, well, our favorite

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Speaker 2: song in the song that everybody like, so Mosta's Black Sabbath.

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Speaker 2: Let's just call ourselves that. So their debut album was

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Speaker 2: Black Sabbath by Black Sabbath, featuring the song Black Sabbath.

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Speaker 2: They were one of those.

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Speaker 1: That's right, and they you know, I'm gonna sort of

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Speaker 1: pepper in some you know, rolling Stone ticket for what

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Speaker 1: it's worth. But they have a list of their top

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Speaker 1: one hundred metal bands, and fun fact, either Ozzi or

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Speaker 1: Saba or I'm sorry metal albums, either Ozzie or Sabbath

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Speaker 1: have four of the top fifteen.

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Speaker 2: Not bad, not bad at all. No, Ozzy's definitely a

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Speaker 2: medal god. Which is interesting because Black Sabbath as a band,

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Speaker 2: just like led Zeppelin, it said we're not heavy metal,

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Speaker 2: or we weren't heavy metal, right, it's not what we were.

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Speaker 2: And again most people are like you you are sorry

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Speaker 2: to well, you're definitely metal.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But apparently Rob Halford, the lead singer Judas Priest, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I guess he was on WTF with Mark Maron at

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Speaker 2: some point and he said, hey, Sabbath has always said like,

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Speaker 2: we weren't the first metal band. Well, Judas Priest was

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Speaker 2: founded the same year. Yeah, so we'll gladly take that

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Speaker 2: title is the first metal band. And you can make

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Speaker 2: a pretty good case if Sabbath says no, give it

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Speaker 2: to Judas Priest. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I don't think I realized they formed at the same time.

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Speaker 1: That's interesting. And I also think Ozzie's post Sabbath career

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Speaker 1: is just Ozzy Osbourne was as metal as metal gets.

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Speaker 1: So there may be a little bit of like kind

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Speaker 1: of joining those two things together.

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Speaker 2: That's possible, Yeah, for sure. Yeah, Heydy gone like the

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Speaker 2: way of George Benson or Chuck Man g Own. People

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Speaker 2: might leave, might leave. Uh oh yeah, that's right. Wow,

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Speaker 2: they're just popping up all over the place, or doing

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Speaker 2: the opposite of that, I guess.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they're popped there. Yeah, lank laying down right.

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Speaker 2: So most people, though, say they'll give Black Sabbath a

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Speaker 2: pass on their first debut, their debut album say like, okay,

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Speaker 2: that was kind of bluesy, and it is, but it's

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Speaker 2: still pretty metally. But they're like your second album Paranoid, Sorry,

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Speaker 2: that is definitely metal. War Pigs is about as metal

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Speaker 2: as metal gets still to this day.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean Paranoid is ranked as the number one

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Speaker 1: metal album of all time by Rolling Stone, So there

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Speaker 1: you go.

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Speaker 2: Well, then there's no arguing with that.

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Speaker 1: I agree, and I think we should take a break

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Speaker 1: and maybe come back and talk about a very unfortunate

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Speaker 1: kind of legendary incident that happened to Black Sabbath early

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Speaker 1: in their career. Right after this, all right, so we're

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Speaker 1: back with part two of six of the Heavy Metal Duology,

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Speaker 1: and I promised a little bit of talk about a

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Speaker 1: famous incident, a very sad one involving Black Sabbath early

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Speaker 1: in their career, and that is when Tony Iomi, their

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Speaker 1: brilliant left handed guitar player, was a teenager. He worked

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Speaker 1: at a steel mill in Birmingham, England. He was on

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Speaker 1: his last ship. Apparently he was heading out on tour

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Speaker 1: with the band, and he came home on a lunch

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Speaker 1: break and almost didn't even go back, and his mom said,

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Speaker 1: get your butt back there. You got to finish your job, boy,

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Speaker 1: and he went, okay, mom, and he went back and

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Speaker 1: proceeded to lose the ends of his middle finger and

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Speaker 1: ring finger on his right hand. But remember he's a

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Speaker 1: left handed guitar player, so if it was the other

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Speaker 1: way around, he could still hold the pick and probably

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Speaker 1: be okay. But this is the hand that is on

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Speaker 1: the neck, so he was missing a large, large portions

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Speaker 1: of his digits that make that pretty vital.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I also read that this was the first time

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Speaker 2: he used a metal press because the guy who normally

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Speaker 2: did it was out, and so they had Tony Iomi

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Speaker 2: cover his shift for the first time ever, like last

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Speaker 2: shift ever before he goes out on tour. Like, that's

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Speaker 2: just crazy that that happened. But that was actually a

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Speaker 2: gift to metal in a lot of ways because he

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Speaker 2: had to basically adapt. Apparently Django Reinhardt lost like some

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Speaker 2: fingers or a hand or something crazy like that.

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Speaker 1: It was a fire that basically he only had use

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Speaker 1: of two fingers on his fretting hand.

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Speaker 2: Okay, well, somebody told that story to Tony Iomi and

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Speaker 2: it inspired him to just get back in there. He

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Speaker 2: made prosthetics himself for his fingers. Apparently they worked so

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Speaker 2: so so instead he had to adapt by he loosened

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Speaker 2: the strings by downtuning, so everything had a deeper, like

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Speaker 2: heavier sound to it. The same notes that standard tuning

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Speaker 2: would produce, it had a deeper sound. He wasn't necessarily

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Speaker 2: doing it for the deeper sound. He was doing it

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Speaker 2: because the looser strings were easier for him to bend

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Speaker 2: with what he had left of his fingers. That was

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Speaker 2: a huge development that came out of the loss of

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Speaker 2: those fingertips.

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Speaker 1: Yeah for sure. Also he switched to lighter strings, he

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00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:56,280
Speaker 1: couldn't play as fast. So that's why Black Sabbath has

433
00:21:56,359 --> 00:22:01,159
Speaker 1: that terrific just sort of grungy slog. And it's not

434
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:03,440
Speaker 1: like kept that kind of fast metal. It's because Tony Iomi,

435
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:05,400
Speaker 1: you know, he, like you said, he made these things

436
00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:08,920
Speaker 1: out of wax and leather, and if he played fast enough,

437
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:12,680
Speaker 1: they would fly off his finger, and so he had

438
00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:14,239
Speaker 1: to kind of slow it down, and that's why they

439
00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:16,160
Speaker 1: had that sort of deep, sludgy grind.

440
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:18,800
Speaker 2: Yeah. One of the other things I love about Sabbath

441
00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:22,560
Speaker 2: too is they like their studio albums contain like mess ups,

442
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:25,919
Speaker 2: like blatant mess ups, like they'll just like miss the

443
00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:28,320
Speaker 2: beat on drums or something like that once in a while,

444
00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:30,840
Speaker 2: and they just kept going and released it on the album.

445
00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:32,240
Speaker 2: I love that about them.

446
00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:35,520
Speaker 1: I'd listen right before we recorded. I have the one

447
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:39,480
Speaker 1: hundred and eighty gram versions of their their debut, which

448
00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,679
Speaker 1: has the most terrifying album cover of all time. To me,

449
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:48,320
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh, I think so. And Masters of or

450
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:50,639
Speaker 1: I think Master of Reality or is it Masters I

451
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:53,400
Speaker 1: can't remember, And then I ordered I realized I didn't

452
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 1: even have paranoid, so I ordered.

453
00:22:55,000 --> 00:23:00,159
Speaker 2: Oh, really nice stat nice work, Chuck. Yeah. Yeah, that's

454
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:02,600
Speaker 2: that's something. We'll talk a little more about album art later,

455
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:07,800
Speaker 2: but that's definitely something that's missing in the day and

456
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:11,200
Speaker 2: age of like listening to stuff digitally. Yeah, you don't

457
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:14,640
Speaker 2: have that record album to like look at while you're listening,

458
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 2: and that's like part of the experience, right.

459
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:17,240
Speaker 1: Yeah.

460
00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,199
Speaker 2: But I will say that I noticed recently I was

461
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:24,280
Speaker 2: listening to Somewhere in Time Iron Maiden album, and the

462
00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:28,239
Speaker 2: album art on my iPhone moves now, so Eddie, like

463
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,640
Speaker 2: they show him like shooting the guy who's just out

464
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:34,320
Speaker 2: of frame. You just see his hand. Wow, eyes light up,

465
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:37,080
Speaker 2: like it's really cool. We're downloading the album just to

466
00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:39,480
Speaker 2: see that alone, let alone for the music. So I'm

467
00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:41,920
Speaker 2: glad that that developed, but it's still not quite the

468
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:45,480
Speaker 2: same as holding like a record album like cover and

469
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:46,320
Speaker 2: looking at it.

470
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:50,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. The seventies also included, of course, Judas Priests.

471
00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 1: As you mentioned, Iron Maiden started in nineteen seventy five

472
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:57,320
Speaker 1: with a different lead singer. That's if you're not super

473
00:23:57,359 --> 00:23:59,359
Speaker 1: into Iron Maiden and you just kind of remember the

474
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,920
Speaker 1: eighties music videos with the great Bruce Dickenson up front

475
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:07,199
Speaker 1: their first two records, Killers and Just I think it

476
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:08,399
Speaker 1: was self titled, right.

477
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:12,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, Iron Maiden and then Killers and they were both

478
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:15,439
Speaker 2: it was Paul Diano was their first lead singer.

479
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:16,520
Speaker 1: I like those records.

480
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:18,720
Speaker 2: Let's talk a little bit about Maiden right now. You

481
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 2: want to, Yeah, you want to get into it, yeah,

482
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:26,200
Speaker 2: because it's really pretty much impossible to overstate the influence

483
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:30,360
Speaker 2: that Iron Maiden had on you metal, you.

484
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:33,680
Speaker 1: Know, yeah, Like no, I agree, Like if you if you.

485
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:35,920
Speaker 2: Ask some of the people who make up the Big

486
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 2: four of thrash bands Metallica, Megadeth, Slayer, and Anthrax, they're

487
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 2: basically like, we wouldn't we wouldn't exist if it weren't

488
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:47,639
Speaker 2: for Iron Maiden. Like, we loved Maiden so much we

489
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:50,000
Speaker 2: decided to form our own band. We were inspired to

490
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:52,680
Speaker 2: form our own band, and it just keeps going down

491
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 2: the line. Band after band after band started out loving

492
00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:59,720
Speaker 2: Iron Maiden. It's such a great entree into heavy metal

493
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 2: music because it's so listenable.

494
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally melodic.

495
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:05,480
Speaker 2: The lyrics are really interesting, Like the themes of the

496
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 2: songs are really varied. And I was evidence of this.

497
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:13,399
Speaker 2: The poster art alone can't get you into Iron Maiden.

498
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,360
Speaker 2: Like I had my room covered in Iron Maiden posters

499
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 2: before I listened to them at all.

500
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:20,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean we should talk about that for a second.

501
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:23,399
Speaker 1: Then their mascot is Eddie. If you've ever seen an

502
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:27,200
Speaker 1: Iron Maiden album cover or poster or live video where

503
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 1: they have big, you know, giant Eddie walking around and

504
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:33,720
Speaker 1: stuff like a puppet, I guess he's their mascot. And

505
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 1: he was drawn by a guy named Derrek Riggs, and

506
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 1: he was originally he was called Eddie the Head and

507
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 1: then just the Head, but in their British accent, the

508
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:46,920
Speaker 1: ed they like dropped their h's.

509
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:47,920
Speaker 2: Oh is that right?

510
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,439
Speaker 1: It just became ed and Eddie is how they eventually

511
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:51,240
Speaker 1: wound up with Eddie.

512
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 2: Very nice, and he's been on every single of the

513
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 2: seventeen albums that they've released, most of the singles, apparently

514
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 2: not all. I don't know why, but he's usually kind

515
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:07,160
Speaker 2: of like altered to represent whatever that particular album is about, right.

516
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, Like he was an inmate in a

517
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,440
Speaker 1: mental institution for peace of mind. I do love the

518
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:18,399
Speaker 1: cover of Power Slave when he's he's a pharaoh in

519
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 1: the desert. Pretty cool.

520
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 2: Apparently when they toured that album, they had like a

521
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:29,440
Speaker 2: thirty foot like actual build of that as the backdrop

522
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:30,680
Speaker 2: for their stage show.

523
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:31,640
Speaker 1: Of course they did.

524
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 2: Why would you not exactly, you know, but yeah, Eddie

525
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 2: was bossed, just Eddie alone, And he's a good example

526
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:40,199
Speaker 2: of why the loss of like an album cover is

527
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 2: really like a big deal, because man, it doesn't get

528
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 2: any better than Iron Maiden album covers.

529
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 1: No agreed. They came out in nineteen seventy five, and

530
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 1: I believe it or not, def Leppard was also debuting

531
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,880
Speaker 1: along with Motorhead and they were grouped together as what's

532
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 1: called the new wave of British heavy metal, and that

533
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 1: was sort of happy happening concurrently with the punk scene,

534
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 1: which is interesting because punk and metal to me are

535
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 1: very different, but there are some sort of tendrils that

536
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 1: work through both of those kinds of music.

537
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's where those first two albums definitely, they

538
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 2: were definitely influenced. Paul Deano was definitely influenced by punk,

539
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 2: so it was a lot more it was a lot

540
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:24,479
Speaker 2: closer to hardcore than the albums that Bruce Dickinson helmed.

541
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 2: Starting with their third album, Number of the Beast, which

542
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 2: is when the band just broke through and became metal Gods.

543
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 2: That was back in nineteen eighty two.

544
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:35,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, Dickinson brought that sort of operatic flourish the theatrical

545
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 1: like some of us. I was listening today and sometimes

546
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,920
Speaker 1: he literally goes like from and that kind of thing,

547
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:44,920
Speaker 1: which is like, you gotta love it. He really leaned into.

548
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 2: It, for sure, and like, I don't know how I like,

549
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 2: I'm not such a fan that I know who actually

550
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:55,639
Speaker 2: writes the songs. I've always presumed Bruce Dickinson did, but

551
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:58,440
Speaker 2: usually it turns out to be like the guitarist or

552
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:02,399
Speaker 2: something like that. But they're songs are really really interesting

553
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:06,040
Speaker 2: and they're really varied, like they cover history a lot,

554
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:08,480
Speaker 2: like there's a song about World War two pilots called

555
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 2: Aces High, the song about Alexander the Great, about white

556
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:18,640
Speaker 2: Europeans and Americans overrunning Native Americans in North America run

557
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 2: to the Hills. That's on number of the.

558
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 1: Beasts two great song.

559
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:26,439
Speaker 2: They have some really like uplifting, encouraging messages in their songs,

560
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:29,679
Speaker 2: like can I play with Madness in Wasted Years? They

561
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:32,480
Speaker 2: even have a song about the loneliness of a long

562
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 2: distance runner and that's what it's about. Yeah, and it's

563
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 2: really it's a great song, like it they follow the

564
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 2: pace and like the slow down and then the speed

565
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 2: up again once he gets a second win. Like, oh,

566
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 2: it's a really well done song, but it's about a

567
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 2: long distance runner running a marathon by himself. Yeah.

568
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 1: One of the things I haven't gotten around to yet

569
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 1: in my recent documentary Binge is I know there's a

570
00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:58,480
Speaker 1: really good Iron Maiden documentary that came out I think

571
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 1: last year or semi recently, and I haven't checked that

572
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 1: out yet, but that's on the list, like even higher

573
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:04,600
Speaker 1: now sure.

574
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 2: And if you're like, well, okay, how big is Iron Maiden,

575
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 2: Well we've got a few stats for you, one chuck back.

576
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 2: In twenty twelve, the Queen's sixty year Jubilee, the UK

577
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 2: held some polls to say, like to figure out what

578
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 2: the best of the best was of the last sixty years.

579
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 2: The best British record album of the last sixty years,

580
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 2: voted by citizens of the UK was Number of the

581
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 2: Beast Iron Maiden.

582
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 1: So just best record.

583
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 2: The best record the Beatles were from Britain. Don't forget

584
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 2: all of those guys who were the progenitors of heavy

585
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:45,960
Speaker 2: metal were from Britain. Iron Maiden's Number of the Beast

586
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 2: was voted the number one record in the last sixty

587
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 2: years in Great Britain.

588
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 1: All right, here's my statement on that. Okay, I don't

589
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 1: doubt you. I just want to know a little bit

590
00:29:56,320 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 1: more about the robustness of this pole and like, Okay,

591
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 1: it's shocking to me that that would be number one

592
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 1: over like the Stones or the Beatles or letwipl or

593
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 1: just bands that were just way, way, way more popular.

594
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 2: I totally get you, and I triple check that to

595
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 2: make sure that that was not just like some misinformed

596
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 2: fan like that.

597
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 1: I just want to see the I want to see

598
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 1: where they took this poll, like how it was done.

599
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 1: That's why I don't want to know.

600
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 2: But they they got almost ten percent of the vote,

601
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 2: so it's pretty good.

602
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 1: You're like it was in the parking lot of an

603
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 1: Iron Maiden show.

604
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 2: So they've also sold one hundred and thirty million copies

605
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 2: of their seventeen albums. I means bad. Even Lady Gaga's

606
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 2: a fan.

607
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, I mean I think she was knocked out

608
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:47,880
Speaker 1: by their fandom or standem because she was like what

609
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:49,720
Speaker 1: I see in an Iron Maidens fan base is what

610
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:53,800
Speaker 1: I want for myself. Like they are so wholly dedicated,

611
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 1: and that's something I think that's true for a lot

612
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 1: of metal bands, but they seem to be even more

613
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 1: so than a lot of metal bands.

614
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I mean like world wide. If you go

615
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 2: to South America, they can fill a stadium every night

616
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 2: for a month. Like people around the world love Iron Maiden.

617
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 2: I just think it's great because they're a great band.

618
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 2: There's not a bunch of controversy. Controversy, they're not like

619
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 2: preoccupied with like bringing the full the full power of

620
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 2: Satan to bear on his non believers, like right, They're

621
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 2: just actually a lot of their stuff is pretty encouraging,

622
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 2: at the very least super interesting. So they're they like,

623
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 2: they're just a good band to be beloved worldwide.

624
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 1: I think totally agree. I still think I'm Judas Priest more.

625
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 1: I was listening to British Steel today and they're they're

626
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 1: both great. They're kind of side by side for me.

627
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 2: Actually, Okay, I have to like add to my original

628
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 2: top five maybe even current top five. I really like

629
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 2: Motorhead a lot. Yeah, I don't own a Motorhead T shirt.

630
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 2: I really haven't heard much beyond their Asus Spades album,

631
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 2: but I love what I hear a Motorhead. I like

632
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 2: their whole jam. They're another band that says like, we're

633
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:01,240
Speaker 2: not heavy metal.

634
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true, but they were kind of the progenitors

635
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 1: of speed metal. I think in a lot of ways.

636
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 1: You know, the Scorpions came out in sixty five, and

637
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 1: Hanover I know, recommended the sales of Sharon as a

638
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 1: very amazing YouTube thing to go watch if you want

639
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:23,200
Speaker 1: to see some pre eighties Scorpions. Okay, def Leppard came

640
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 1: out in seventy seven. See this is where Olvia has

641
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 1: a couple listed like Van Halen and Blue Oyster Cult

642
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:31,560
Speaker 1: and Aerosmith and ac DC that I don't think any

643
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 1: of those bands are metal.

644
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 2: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa whoa. You don't think Van Halen

645
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:36,479
Speaker 2: is metal?

646
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:38,080
Speaker 1: Not at all?

647
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 2: Oh, I disagree with you.

648
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:42,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think they're not metal at all.

649
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 2: All Right, I'm gonna say that I think that they

650
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 2: qualify as metal.

651
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 1: Interesting, have you ever heard David Lee Roth I have?

652
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 1: I have ice cream?

653
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 2: Man. Yes, I know that they have other stuff, but

654
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 2: I'm saying, like, think they're like the stuff that sounds

655
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 2: like metal is metal.

656
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 1: I don't think it sounds like metal at all. I

657
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 1: just think they're a rock band.

658
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 2: Have you heard Panama?

659
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, that didn't sound metal to me at all.

660
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 2: I'm just kidding, Okay. I can't think of a single

661
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 2: metal metal song of theirs.

662
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 1: I think it's mostly just.

663
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,640
Speaker 2: Just Eddie van Halen's playing that. I'm like, that's metal, man.

664
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 1: Oh see, not to me, that's just virtue virtuostic, right,

665
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:30,200
Speaker 1: rock guitar lead to me? I mean. And also, just

666
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 1: you know, they didn't sing about those things. There was

667
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 1: no darkness, there was no you know, the way they dress,

668
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 1: like Eddie van Halen wore overalls on stage.

669
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:45,959
Speaker 2: Hey, Randy Rhodes wore a polka dot like Chippendale's vest. Right,

670
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 2: So let's not get into that, all right.

671
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 1: So anyway, just my opinion, I knew that, But let's

672
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 1: talk about just the I mean, I guess this is

673
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 1: a nice segue into the words heavy metal, because, like

674
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 1: I said, people can nitpick this stuff to death what

675
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 1: heavy rock was or when it transitioned into metal. There's

676
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:12,239
Speaker 1: a sociologist named Dina Weinstein that Livia found that tried

677
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:14,880
Speaker 1: to kind of root out the origins of the little

678
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 1: literal phrase heavy metal. It was born to be Wild

679
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 1: by Steppenwolf, you know, heavy metal, thunder, But that wasn't

680
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 1: talking about music. That was talking about cars and.

681
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 2: Stuff, right, I don't know. Could it could have influenced

682
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 2: it to some degree or whatever, but it doesn't seem

683
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,920
Speaker 2: like the direct answer. Yeah, yeah, it's me. William S

684
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 2: Burrows apparently puts up a pretty good argument for the

685
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:42,839
Speaker 2: guy who coined heavy metal, or at least put it

686
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 2: out there, and that it was adopted to eventually describe

687
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 2: that genre of music. It's not at all what he

688
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 2: was doing. He had a character from his Nova trilogy

689
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:55,719
Speaker 2: called Uranium Willy, the heavy metal Kid. Okay, I don't

690
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:58,080
Speaker 2: know enough about William S Burrow's writing to know if

691
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 2: like Uranium Willy was like metal in the metal sense. Yeah,

692
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:05,360
Speaker 2: but he also had a drug called heavy metal that

693
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:07,800
Speaker 2: appeared in some of his other works, not Naked Lunch,

694
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:11,880
Speaker 2: but in other works. That to me makes a You

695
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:14,440
Speaker 2: could make a pretty good argument that I would buy

696
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 2: that that ultimately maybe led to the use of heavy

697
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 2: metal to describe heavy metal. Yeah.

698
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:24,160
Speaker 1: I think both of those things had put it out

699
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 1: into this public consciousness as two words that can be

700
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 1: said together, but for my money, you got to go

701
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 1: with Lester Bangs. This was in nineteen seventy and I

702
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:37,399
Speaker 1: think he was running for Rolling Stone at the time.

703
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:41,239
Speaker 1: But the legendary rock critic and writer, in one of

704
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:44,080
Speaker 1: his reviews in nineteen seventy said he was complaining it

705
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:45,879
Speaker 1: was a negative thing. He said, all the heavy metal

706
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 1: robots of years past, of the year past. When he

707
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:51,279
Speaker 1: was talking about the albums of nineteen seventy, he was

708
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:55,799
Speaker 1: talking about nineteen sixty nine. And he proceeded by a

709
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 1: few months a guy named Mike Saunders, eventually known as

710
00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 1: Metal Mike, who described Humble Pie as a noisy, unmelodic,

711
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:06,360
Speaker 1: heavy metal laden poop rock band.

712
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you for changing s to poop. Yeah, but

713
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 2: deserve the moral purity of our podcast.

714
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:16,840
Speaker 1: They both use the words heavy metal to describe music,

715
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:19,200
Speaker 1: I think for the first time in nineteen seventy.

716
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, but they were, Yeah, they were negative reviews. That

717
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 2: that's possible, I think. Dina Weinstein says like that's a

718
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:29,919
Speaker 2: real possibility. But she put something out that I thought

719
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:32,400
Speaker 2: was pretty interesting too. She pointed out that a lot

720
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:35,480
Speaker 2: of these bands came from Birmingham, England, and Detroit, Michigan,

721
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:39,880
Speaker 2: which apparently were very similar at the time. They're very polluted, dirty, industrial,

722
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:43,240
Speaker 2: working class cities, and that the fans of heavy metal

723
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:48,279
Speaker 2: also hailed from those areas too, where areas like them,

724
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 2: and that they would be familiar with like the feel

725
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 2: of heavy metal like that, not the feel, what's the

726
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:00,479
Speaker 2: word I'm looking for, the.

727
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 1: Sensibility, No, more like the.

728
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:09,240
Speaker 2: Just like what the term can kind of bring to mind,

729
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,759
Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying and associating that with music. Yeah,

730
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:17,920
Speaker 2: somebody from you know, super nice Town, USA who's experienced

731
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 2: with metal is the nails holding their white picket fence together.

732
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 2: They might not be able to be like, yeah, heavy

733
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:27,200
Speaker 2: metal really describes this music, but the kids in Detroit

734
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 2: and Birmingham probably could. And I thought that was an

735
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:30,320
Speaker 2: interesting point.

736
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. Absolutely. Oh geez, look at where we are.

737
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 1: Why don't we take another break, Okay, and we'll come

738
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 1: back and talk about how the genre started to grow

739
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 1: and sort of split into subgenres right after this.

740
00:37:42,160 --> 00:38:12,760
Speaker 2: This is gonna be fun, okay, Chuck. So, the early

741
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:16,239
Speaker 2: seventies or the mid seventies to early eighties gave us

742
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:19,880
Speaker 2: the British Wave, the New British wave of heavy metal

743
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:22,719
Speaker 2: right laid the foundation. You would call most of that

744
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 2: just heavy metal, like it's just so classic. They don't

745
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 2: even fit into subgenres. They just gave the world heavy metal.

746
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:32,879
Speaker 2: From that point, it just started to split. And one

747
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 2: of the ways that it started to split was by spreading,

748
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 2: and it didn't spread through radio. Radio was afraid of

749
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:42,440
Speaker 2: heavy metal almost from the outset. So bands were forced

750
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:44,799
Speaker 2: to basically say, let's just get out on the road,

751
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:48,839
Speaker 2: Let's go to our fans rather than relying on other

752
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:52,799
Speaker 2: people to help boost our popularity. And so touring in

753
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:56,240
Speaker 2: massive tours became just a part of being a heavy

754
00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:59,760
Speaker 2: metal band, especially in the early eighties. Throughout the eighties,

755
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:02,960
Speaker 2: and they would make stage shows that people would talk

756
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:06,240
Speaker 2: about four years afterwards, like we talked about the Iron

757
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 2: Maiden nineteen eighty three Power Slaver eighty four or five

758
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:13,000
Speaker 2: Power Slave Tour and what their stage show looked like,

759
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 2: Like that's the kind of stuff they were doing.

760
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. The eighties. Of course, that's when hair

761
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:20,440
Speaker 1: metal comes onto the scene, and that's when I'm an

762
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 1: MTV that's when I started getting into it a little bit.

763
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:26,839
Speaker 1: Despite my early alternative music leanings and also loving like

764
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:29,360
Speaker 1: Billy Joel at the time, stuff like that. Sure, so

765
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:31,319
Speaker 1: I was all over the place. But you know, Rat

766
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:35,480
Speaker 1: comes along, Motley Crue comes along, your band Poison Cinderella

767
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:38,680
Speaker 1: another band that I love. I mean, we could go

768
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:41,920
Speaker 1: through them, La Guns, White Snake, Hanoi, Rocks, Slaughter, Skid Row,

769
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:47,360
Speaker 1: Doc and Wasp Warrant Warrant, Quiet Riot, Twisted Sister. And

770
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 1: we have to mention this band because it was kind

771
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:54,960
Speaker 1: of the beginnings of some really dark metal. And that

772
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:58,400
Speaker 1: has a band called Merciful Fate, Yeah, from lead singer

773
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:02,080
Speaker 1: King Diamond, who later after Merciful Fate. I think the

774
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:05,160
Speaker 1: Merciful Fate was nineteen eighty to eighty four, and then

775
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:08,839
Speaker 1: after that King Diamond, which is obviously stage name, went

776
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,960
Speaker 1: on to form the band King Diamond, and they were

777
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:15,759
Speaker 1: very dark, sort of darker metal and used what's known

778
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:17,919
Speaker 1: as corpse paint, like the black and white makeup paint

779
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 1: on a space. Yes, and very influential early I guess

780
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:23,080
Speaker 1: dark metal.

781
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 2: Yeah for sure. The other band that typically gets pointed

782
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:32,279
Speaker 2: to is the basis of death metal in particular is Possessed.

783
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:35,280
Speaker 2: They were from San Francisco, Okay. They released an album

784
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:37,960
Speaker 2: called Seven Churches in nineteen eighty five. That was another

785
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:40,360
Speaker 2: one that I was like, where was I What was

786
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:43,080
Speaker 2: I doing? Yeah, this is right in my wheelhouse? Like

787
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:46,040
Speaker 2: how did I not hear possessed? How did I not

788
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:49,440
Speaker 2: hear a venom? Like? I did not this stuff did

789
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:52,880
Speaker 2: not cross my path. And this it's like actual legit

790
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 2: death metal, but it's from nineteen eighty five. Death metal

791
00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:59,880
Speaker 2: wouldn't really start to take off until the later eighties

792
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:03,040
Speaker 2: early nineties. Yeah, and we should just say death metal

793
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:07,120
Speaker 2: is like that, like you know, the growling like lyrics

794
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:08,960
Speaker 2: that you just can't understand. You have to read the

795
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:12,319
Speaker 2: lyrics while you're listening. Yeah, that is death metal. That's

796
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 2: like the key characteristic of death metal that anybody could

797
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:18,480
Speaker 2: come along and be like, oh, that's different than the

798
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:20,120
Speaker 2: other stuff I'm listening to because of.

799
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:22,520
Speaker 1: This, Yeah, for sure. And you know why you didn't

800
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:23,759
Speaker 1: know about it is because you had to know the

801
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:25,920
Speaker 1: person who knew about it, because it wasn't on the radio.

802
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:29,240
Speaker 1: Stuff like that wasn't even on MTV. I mean, maybe

803
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 1: maybe you might see something like that as a deep

804
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 1: cut on Headbanger's Ball later on, hosted by the Great

805
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:39,360
Speaker 1: Ricky rockman. But otherwise you just had to know the

806
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:40,920
Speaker 1: dude who was like, hey, man, have you heard this?

807
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:45,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so they gave birth to Morbid Angel. Autopsy

808
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:50,120
Speaker 2: Cannibal Corpse is a very very famous death metal band

809
00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 2: from the late eighties and it just keeps going on

810
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 2: and on and on. Our longtime listener, I think she

811
00:41:57,080 --> 00:41:58,600
Speaker 2: still listens. I haven't talked to her in a while.

812
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:02,840
Speaker 2: Alisa White Gloves from the band Arch Enemy, Uh huh,

813
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:06,360
Speaker 2: she listens, or she used to. But Arch Enemy is

814
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:12,920
Speaker 2: a melodic Swedish death metal band. Yeah, it's just a

815
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:15,959
Speaker 2: bunch of subgenres put into one. But if you listen

816
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:20,440
Speaker 2: to Elisa singh she's doing that death metal like guttural singing. Yeah,

817
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:23,279
Speaker 2: it's just part of death metal, no matter what that

818
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:24,720
Speaker 2: genres carved into.

819
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, not fully my thing. I was into

820
00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:31,840
Speaker 1: a little bit of industrial metal that camera around in

821
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:34,880
Speaker 1: the mid eighties. Ministry, of course is the band that

822
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:37,839
Speaker 1: comes to mind from Chicago, who were a little more

823
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:41,000
Speaker 1: of a synthpop They were not what they became for

824
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 1: sure early on, but they kind of led the way

825
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:47,480
Speaker 1: for the industrial music scene in the mid eighties. When

826
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:49,719
Speaker 1: their eighty six album Twitch came out.

827
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:54,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's I went in that direction toward industrial

828
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:57,120
Speaker 2: in addition to new wave stuff like I really like

829
00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:03,040
Speaker 2: Nitzer Ebb and met Beat, Manifesto, Skinny Puppy. None of

830
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 2: those will qualify as metal, but I guess Ministry kind

831
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:09,080
Speaker 2: of bridge. That was the bridge between metal and just

832
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:13,000
Speaker 2: straight up industrial. Godflesh they were another one that was

833
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:18,480
Speaker 2: no question industrial metal. And again, go listen to Godflesh's

834
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:20,880
Speaker 2: I Guess first album. I can't remember what it's called,

835
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 2: but it's like a black background with a white minimalist

836
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:28,719
Speaker 2: kind of face all up in your face, and you'll

837
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:30,839
Speaker 2: be like, wait, this is metal, And if you listen

838
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:33,120
Speaker 2: to it, you'll say, yes, this is metal. There's a

839
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:36,319
Speaker 2: drum machine and you're like, okay, well that seems like cheating. No,

840
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 2: they use a drum machine because no human being could

841
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:41,640
Speaker 2: play drums at this slow a pace and not like

842
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:44,880
Speaker 2: fall asleep or die from boredom. Right, So they have

843
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 2: a really slow tempo but with traditional like distortion and

844
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:55,680
Speaker 2: guitars and singing that you would associate with metal, and

845
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 2: you put it all together and it is really good.

846
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:01,879
Speaker 1: Yeah. I saw a cool interview with the great Mike

847
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:04,480
Speaker 1: Patten of Faith No More and mister Bungle, one of

848
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:08,040
Speaker 1: the greatest singers ever in any genre, and he was

849
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:11,080
Speaker 1: singing the Praises of Godflesh and I went and listened

850
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:12,399
Speaker 1: to a little bit of it and I was like, man,

851
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:14,520
Speaker 1: this is like very very heavy stuff.

852
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:17,359
Speaker 2: It is. Oh, it's super super dark. But they were

853
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:20,880
Speaker 2: from Birmingham too, so this is like, so Birmingham is

854
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 2: to metal what Manchester was to britpop. Yeah. Yeah, Like

855
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:27,360
Speaker 2: it just was this center And what's crazy is it

856
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 2: was a center for a really long time. I think

857
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 2: there's still bands coming out of Birmingham that are no bad. Yeah.

858
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:36,680
Speaker 1: Yeah. The Grammys got on board in nineteen eighty nine

859
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:39,560
Speaker 1: and all the wrong ways. They introduced the Best hard

860
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 1: Rock slash Metal Performance and Metallica's and Justice for All

861
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:49,240
Speaker 1: very famously lost out to Jethrotl. They had a comeback

862
00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:54,840
Speaker 1: album called Crest of a Knave and everybody immediately was like, Grammys,

863
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:57,640
Speaker 1: You've never seen more out of touch with what's going

864
00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:00,959
Speaker 1: on in the world and so pretty qui. They were like, oh,

865
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:03,799
Speaker 1: maybe we'll split the categories and the next year it

866
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:07,320
Speaker 1: was hard Rock, a hard Rock Award and a Metal Award.

867
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:10,480
Speaker 1: But they even mess that up. Like, you know, bands

868
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:14,120
Speaker 1: like Soundgarden one the metal category and stuff like that,

869
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:15,919
Speaker 1: and like they're not metal either.

870
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:18,680
Speaker 2: Well, the Grammys aren't really known for being super in

871
00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:21,640
Speaker 2: touch with underground stuff. And that's it's interesting because the

872
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:26,120
Speaker 2: reason why groups like Soundgarden won the Metal Grammy at

873
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 2: the time was because grunge just took over. It actually

874
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:34,840
Speaker 2: pushed metal right out of the limelight or like basically

875
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:38,839
Speaker 2: starting January first, nineteen ninety, grunge just took over and

876
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:41,640
Speaker 2: it stayed that way for years, and the metals started

877
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:45,240
Speaker 2: to kind of come back in a way. New metal

878
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:48,080
Speaker 2: came along in the mid to late nineties, so like

879
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 2: you had slip Knot and cornco Park, I guess qualifies

880
00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:55,000
Speaker 2: I'm not either, but I know a lot of people are.

881
00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:59,520
Speaker 2: Like a lot of people got back into metal thanks

882
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 2: to these guys. They basically they were like, hey, you

883
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:05,319
Speaker 2: like you like grunge, you like alternative, We're gonna help

884
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:08,840
Speaker 2: transition you back to metal. And then there was a

885
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:12,680
Speaker 2: something called the New wave of American heavy metal starting

886
00:46:12,719 --> 00:46:15,520
Speaker 2: in the early two thousands that took back over from

887
00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:19,120
Speaker 2: new metal and brought it back to like legit serious metal,

888
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:22,480
Speaker 2: like as I Lay Dying, Lamb of God, and of

889
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:24,959
Speaker 2: course High End Fire and a bunch of other bands

890
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:28,160
Speaker 2: that are still coming out in America and around the world.

891
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:31,080
Speaker 2: So metal came back. Whether you like new metal or not,

892
00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:34,760
Speaker 2: you can thank them for bringing metal back from obscurity

893
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:39,120
Speaker 2: in the late nineties early two thousands. Thank you, Corn, Yeah,

894
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:40,040
Speaker 2: thanks a lot. Corn.

895
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:43,080
Speaker 1: Alt metal was a thing too in the in the

896
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:45,200
Speaker 1: late nineties and kind of early two thousands. I think

897
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:47,439
Speaker 1: people consider a Tool kind of an alt metal band,

898
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:50,799
Speaker 1: a band called System of a Down. I listened to

899
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:53,560
Speaker 1: some Tool, but they're another band that has a very

900
00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:57,640
Speaker 1: very very hardcore loyal following, yeah, for sure. And then

901
00:46:57,719 --> 00:47:01,000
Speaker 1: progressive metal that kind of I've been around in the eighties,

902
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:02,919
Speaker 1: like a band like Queen's Reich, who I never really

903
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:08,319
Speaker 1: liked that much, could probably be considered prog metal, as

904
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:10,560
Speaker 1: well as a band called Dream Theater, who are also

905
00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:14,120
Speaker 1: very popular and very have fans that are like super loyal.

906
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:18,600
Speaker 2: I remember listening to Queen's reck Operation mind Crime as

907
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:20,279
Speaker 2: like a twelve year old and being like, I don't

908
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:24,160
Speaker 2: get it. Yeah, this is where the crime way too

909
00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:25,920
Speaker 2: grown up for me, right exactly?

910
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:29,360
Speaker 1: You know what the crime is? These lyrics.

911
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:33,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, Pantera was another one that actually kept metal alive

912
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:37,640
Speaker 2: during the grunge years. They I did not know this.

913
00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:41,200
Speaker 2: Pantera started out the Cowboys from Hell, started out as

914
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:44,719
Speaker 2: a glam rock band, spandex, big hair and everything, and

915
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:48,200
Speaker 2: eventually they shifted into more of a metal sound, and

916
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:50,840
Speaker 2: they were one of the pioneers of what's called groove metal,

917
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:54,800
Speaker 2: which is essentially what it sounds like. It's catchier metal.

918
00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:58,520
Speaker 2: I think there's more refrains to it, and I'm just

919
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:01,719
Speaker 2: speaking musically. It's not it has nothing to do with

920
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:03,920
Speaker 2: like jam bands or anything like that. It's just as

921
00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:06,560
Speaker 2: far as metal goes. It's probably the groovyest version of

922
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:08,040
Speaker 2: metal you could you could do.

923
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:10,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's pretty accurate.

924
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:13,520
Speaker 2: A couple other things, Chuck. Did we talk about the

925
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:14,040
Speaker 2: Big Four?

926
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:18,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, we talked about the Big Four earlier of thrash bands,

927
00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:23,360
Speaker 1: which of course Metallica, Megadeath, Anthrax, and Slayer.

928
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 2: Were you into Slayer or Megadeth or Metallica or Anthrax, No,

929
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:28,120
Speaker 2: I was.

930
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:30,120
Speaker 1: I got into Metallica at one point when I lived

931
00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:32,279
Speaker 1: in New Jersey because a friend of mine listened to them,

932
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:34,640
Speaker 1: and so I listened to Master Puppets and Ride the

933
00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:38,400
Speaker 1: Lightning and Injustice for All like those are great records,

934
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:40,959
Speaker 1: a little bit of Anthrax here and there, but those

935
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:44,840
Speaker 1: generally weren't my thing. Definitely never really listened to Megadeath.

936
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:48,360
Speaker 1: I know Dave Mustaine has a has a reputation in

937
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:52,040
Speaker 1: the industry. He was let go of from Metallica, yeah,

938
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:55,040
Speaker 1: and hasn't stopped complaining about it for forty three years.

939
00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:57,680
Speaker 2: I saw an interview with him that he's where he

940
00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:01,400
Speaker 2: said like I own that, Like I was, like I

941
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:04,400
Speaker 2: had to quit drinking because I was so just agro

942
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:07,440
Speaker 2: and violent whenever I did. But yeah, he was not

943
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:10,000
Speaker 2: happy about it. But metal fans are happy because he

944
00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:14,279
Speaker 2: went on to found Megadeath basically to spite Metallica, and

945
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:16,759
Speaker 2: they became huge in their own right. But I was

946
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:19,520
Speaker 2: never into them. I really want to be into Slayer,

947
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:23,040
Speaker 2: Like I have Rain and Blood on my phone, which

948
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:24,839
Speaker 2: is not a super metal thing to say, but it's

949
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:28,359
Speaker 2: the truth, and I just like I can listen to it,

950
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:30,880
Speaker 2: but I'm not like, damn, this is good, Like I

951
00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:33,440
Speaker 2: just can't get into Slayer. I've never really been into

952
00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:35,360
Speaker 2: Mega Deaths, but despite trying to.

953
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:39,319
Speaker 1: When he left, he said, I'll show you, guys, I'll

954
00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:41,880
Speaker 1: go on to found a band that will never be

955
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:43,520
Speaker 1: as good or as popular as you will be.

956
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:46,560
Speaker 2: It's got Seriously, I hope it doesn't stick in his

957
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:49,279
Speaker 2: crawl because that is that would be hard to get over.

958
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:51,960
Speaker 1: I think he's kind of well known in the industry.

959
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:54,520
Speaker 1: There's a couple of metal people that a lot of

960
00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:57,359
Speaker 1: metal people don't like. Dave Mustain is one, and then

961
00:49:57,520 --> 00:50:02,200
Speaker 1: Lars Ulrich, the drummer from Metallica, is another. Even Metallica fans,

962
00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:04,440
Speaker 1: there's a lot of them that are like, god, Lars,

963
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:06,680
Speaker 1: just shut up. Interesting.

964
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:09,760
Speaker 2: What do you think about Yeah, he does, Yeah, because

965
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:13,520
Speaker 2: some of them are so like vocal about their opinions

966
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:16,040
Speaker 2: and how awesome they are and how terrible other bands are.

967
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:16,560
Speaker 1: Yeah.

968
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:19,239
Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, I'm sure. How about this, Let's say we

969
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:21,400
Speaker 2: wrap it up talking a little bit about black metal,

970
00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:23,719
Speaker 2: and then we'll move on to part two.

971
00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:25,799
Speaker 1: What do you think that sounds good?

972
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:29,080
Speaker 2: Okay, so we can't wrap before we talk about black metal,

973
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:32,800
Speaker 2: which was something that also emerged out of thrash, or

974
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:34,719
Speaker 2: actually I think it emerged out of death metal, to

975
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:37,760
Speaker 2: tell you the truth. But where death metal is like guttural,

976
00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:45,600
Speaker 2: black metal is screaming. Essentially, it's just a higher pitched

977
00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:50,080
Speaker 2: of not understandable lyrics. You have to read the lyrics

978
00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:53,600
Speaker 2: along with it. But it is so death metal is

979
00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:57,680
Speaker 2: like gory and like just go look at Cannibal Corpses

980
00:50:57,719 --> 00:51:00,520
Speaker 2: Butchered at Birth album covering. You'll get an idea of

981
00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:04,400
Speaker 2: what death metal is about. Yeah, black metal is legit

982
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:10,840
Speaker 2: the kind of satanic metal that the censors of the

983
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:15,160
Speaker 2: nineteen eighties and the pastors of the satanic panic were

984
00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:18,920
Speaker 2: actually scared of that didn't exist yet. Black metal is

985
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:20,440
Speaker 2: that so.

986
00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:22,799
Speaker 1: Does like is Merciful Fate and King Diamond do they

987
00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:24,280
Speaker 1: are they thrown into that group.

988
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:29,719
Speaker 2: I think the progenitors of black metal were Venom all

989
00:51:29,719 --> 00:51:33,120
Speaker 2: the way back in nineteen eighty one. They were actually

990
00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:35,799
Speaker 2: part of the new wave of British heavy metal. They

991
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:38,520
Speaker 2: like they had a picture of Baphomet in an upside

992
00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:42,719
Speaker 2: down star on the cover, right, so I could see

993
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:47,000
Speaker 2: suburban parents being actually scared of Venom. Bathory from Sweden

994
00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:49,160
Speaker 2: they were another one from nineteen eighty four, and then

995
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:52,640
Speaker 2: Mayhem is the one that like took black metal into

996
00:51:52,680 --> 00:51:56,839
Speaker 2: like the actual like this is kind of scary realm

997
00:51:57,360 --> 00:51:59,600
Speaker 2: and because they actually did stuff in real life that

998
00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:05,160
Speaker 2: involved like death and suicide and murder and church arson

999
00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:09,120
Speaker 2: and stuff like that. It was like the Norwegian black

1000
00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:14,640
Speaker 2: metal in particular there scene at least it was kind

1001
00:52:14,640 --> 00:52:18,279
Speaker 2: of dangerous. It's really just you can't say that that's

1002
00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:18,880
Speaker 2: not true.

1003
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:21,560
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, like you said, there was a literal murder

1004
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:25,759
Speaker 1: in the band Mayhem, and I will issue a huge

1005
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:29,359
Speaker 1: trigger warning and encourage you not to go look this up.

1006
00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:32,880
Speaker 1: But you can't talk about Mayhem without talking about the

1007
00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:36,880
Speaker 1: worst album cover of all time. Down of the Black

1008
00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:41,160
Speaker 1: Hearts is a photograph. It was a bootleg album but

1009
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:43,880
Speaker 1: became very famous because it showed a photograph that the

1010
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:48,600
Speaker 1: band took of an image of their lead singer right

1011
00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:54,800
Speaker 1: after he had died by suicide by shotgun. And it's awful. Yeah,

1012
00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:56,920
Speaker 1: no other way to describe it, but just horrific.

1013
00:52:57,080 --> 00:52:59,520
Speaker 2: It's essentially a close up and it's exactly what you

1014
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:02,080
Speaker 2: would think it looked like. But like that was their

1015
00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:05,279
Speaker 2: album cover, a bootleg, like you said, true, but the

1016
00:53:06,520 --> 00:53:10,920
Speaker 2: picture was taken by one of Mayhem's band members, Uronymous,

1017
00:53:11,480 --> 00:53:14,040
Speaker 2: and apparently arrange the scene to make it a better

1018
00:53:14,080 --> 00:53:18,839
Speaker 2: looking photo, and hadn't even like contacted the cops yet

1019
00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:22,880
Speaker 2: to say like, hey, my friend killed himself. He was

1020
00:53:22,920 --> 00:53:26,080
Speaker 2: taking pictures of it instead, so like this was like

1021
00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:29,520
Speaker 2: this was this is black metal. Well there, it's also

1022
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:33,959
Speaker 2: rife with white supremacists and I'm not so I don't.

1023
00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:37,839
Speaker 2: I'm sure positive that there are black metal bands out

1024
00:53:37,840 --> 00:53:41,839
Speaker 2: there that are not down with all of that. Yea,

1025
00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:45,359
Speaker 2: they are still really good, but I would guess that

1026
00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:48,120
Speaker 2: they're not the majority. And I don't mean to put

1027
00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:50,320
Speaker 2: down the whole thing and sound like a pearl clutching

1028
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:53,200
Speaker 2: like parent, because I'm not. I'm just trying to get

1029
00:53:53,239 --> 00:53:59,480
Speaker 2: across like how like legitimate what these guys are saying is,

1030
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:01,919
Speaker 2: and like if you read the lyrics, they're like, Wow,

1031
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:05,200
Speaker 2: this is really nuts, man, it's cool. And I don't

1032
00:54:05,239 --> 00:54:09,520
Speaker 2: actually know where these guys fall, like if they're white

1033
00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:13,600
Speaker 2: supremacists or anything, but I know that they are exemplary

1034
00:54:14,080 --> 00:54:19,120
Speaker 2: of Norwegian or Scandinavian black metal called Emperor, and they

1035
00:54:19,160 --> 00:54:22,160
Speaker 2: have a song called The Loss and the Curse of Grace.

1036
00:54:22,239 --> 00:54:25,759
Speaker 2: I think it's got a great video, like it's it's

1037
00:54:25,800 --> 00:54:28,799
Speaker 2: a really cool song. Read the lyrics along with the

1038
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:32,239
Speaker 2: song and you'll be like, Okay, I understand black metal

1039
00:54:32,719 --> 00:54:34,799
Speaker 2: that's a great entree to it. I think, all right,

1040
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:38,040
Speaker 2: I'll do it, Okay, but I don't I'm not really

1041
00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:41,160
Speaker 2: into the sound because I've read that it's deliberately meant

1042
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:47,040
Speaker 2: to be noisy and put off people like me. Squares, Yeah,

1043
00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:52,040
Speaker 2: just let's just say it. Yes, squares who are from Scandinavia.

1044
00:54:52,160 --> 00:54:56,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, all right, that's a super sized part one.

1045
00:54:56,640 --> 00:54:58,719
Speaker 1: I think we'll probably have the supercized part two. And

1046
00:54:59,480 --> 00:55:02,120
Speaker 1: there's also going to be a fun little short stuff

1047
00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:03,880
Speaker 1: this week. So I guess we should just call this

1048
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:07,520
Speaker 1: metal week. And we don't do listener mails at the

1049
00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:10,520
Speaker 1: end of a part one, right, No, no.

1050
00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:10,959
Speaker 2: We don't.

1051
00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:12,919
Speaker 1: So take us home, baby.

1052
00:55:12,719 --> 00:55:15,400
Speaker 2: Okay you ready. Yeah, we are gonna stop. We are

1053
00:55:15,400 --> 00:55:18,440
Speaker 2: gonna stop. We are gonna we are gonna we are

1054
00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:21,480
Speaker 2: gonna stop. Stop stop stop, we are gonna stop here.

1055
00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:29,279
Speaker 1: Stuff you should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

1056
00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:33,560
Speaker 1: more podcasts my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1057
00:55:33,680 --> 00:55:35,480
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.