WEBVTT - Kay Bailey Hutchison Talks NATO

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.

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<v Speaker 2>It's your Bloomberg Brief, Danny Berger here in New York.

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<v Speaker 1>The Bank of America Investor Summit is underway in Dubai,

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<v Speaker 1>with European defense mending in sharp focus.

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<v Speaker 2>Bloomberg's Guy Johnson.

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<v Speaker 1>Has a timely conversation and a special guest to bring us.

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<v Speaker 1>Good morning, Guy, Good morning, Danny, Thank you very much. Indeed, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm joined by Kay Bailey Hutchinson, former United States Permanence

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<v Speaker 1>Representative to NATA, A perfect person to talk to as

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<v Speaker 1>we see such turbulence, particularly around bad Alliance, but particularly

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<v Speaker 1>around the Transatlantic relationship. More broadly, Europe feels like it's

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<v Speaker 1>on its own at the moment. Is that your view

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<v Speaker 1>as well?

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<v Speaker 3>No, not at all. I do think that the President

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<v Speaker 3>has been very direct about Europeans doing more, especially in defense,

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<v Speaker 3>but also in the regular Victoria Breena, I know he's

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<v Speaker 3>talking about that, but uh, the NATO UH bond is

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<v Speaker 3>very strong, and I think it's strong because all of

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<v Speaker 3>us are in it. The thirty two allies have made

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<v Speaker 3>a commitment and I think we will not walk away

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<v Speaker 3>from that. So I don't think Europe has on its

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<v Speaker 3>own although I do understand the hard feelings about some

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<v Speaker 3>of the harshness of the comments.

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<v Speaker 1>The the the incoming Givin Chancellor said yesterday that he

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<v Speaker 1>feels that Europe needs to be independent of the United States.

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<v Speaker 1>Does Europe need to be independent of the United States?

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<v Speaker 1>Does it need to be a relationship more of equals

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<v Speaker 1>because it has felt like an unequal relationship Europe has

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<v Speaker 1>existed under the US security un bretherins. Does that ultimately

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<v Speaker 1>needs a change?

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<v Speaker 2>Now?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I do think that I and really every president

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<v Speaker 3>with whom I've served has said the same thing. Europe

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<v Speaker 3>needs to do more for its own defense, and I

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<v Speaker 3>think that is being said in a different way.

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<v Speaker 2>But again, we do.

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<v Speaker 3>Know that we'd like to have an equal partner UH

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<v Speaker 3>with Europe in defense because our security depends on our

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<v Speaker 3>being together. M Really, the G twenty nations in general

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<v Speaker 3>should be together, UH if we're going to face foes

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<v Speaker 3>like Russia, like North Korea, like Iran, and then UH

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<v Speaker 3>potentially an adversary in China. I think UH, economic unity

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<v Speaker 3>is going to be our whole card, and we need

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<v Speaker 3>to do that with Europe and with the other strong

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<v Speaker 3>nations with economies that can make a difference with China

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<v Speaker 3>or with any of our other uh potential adversary.

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<v Speaker 1>Y You, I'm sure talks to a lot of people

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<v Speaker 1>that you work with over the years about what Europe

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<v Speaker 1>needs to do. What do you think Europe does need

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<v Speaker 1>to do? Is it three percent? Is it four percent?

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<v Speaker 1>Does Europe have the capability if it wants it to

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<v Speaker 1>even spend that money to use that money effectively? What

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<v Speaker 1>is your assessments of what is required and what Europe

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<v Speaker 1>should do right now?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I think Europe needs to do more in its

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<v Speaker 3>own defense building its military for one thing, and the

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<v Speaker 3>German military in particular has not been able to do offense.

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<v Speaker 3>They have a military of defense, but we need offense

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<v Speaker 3>for deterrence. So I think we do need for Europe

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<v Speaker 3>to spend more on capabilities. And now I think a

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<v Speaker 3>lot of the capabilities are going to be technology, and

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<v Speaker 3>technology is the new thing for all of us, and

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<v Speaker 3>we are going to be investing as we always do.

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<v Speaker 3>We have always made security a priority, but Europe is not.

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<v Speaker 3>They have had other priorities economic uh, trade, UH, social spending.

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<v Speaker 3>And now if they make it a priority, they can

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<v Speaker 3>do it, and I think it will be important for

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<v Speaker 3>them to build up so that it is a strength

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<v Speaker 3>for our alliance.

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<v Speaker 1>I if if European spending goes up, can US spending

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<v Speaker 1>go down?

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<v Speaker 2>Is it a zero? Some games? That the way the

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<v Speaker 2>right way of thinking about it. Now.

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<v Speaker 3>No, the US will not lower our level of spending.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean we're talking now about cutting the budget only

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<v Speaker 3>in places where it's.

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<v Speaker 2>There's sch waste.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, yes, we'll do that, but no, we're not

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<v Speaker 3>gonna go down in our efforts to make sure that

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<v Speaker 3>America is secure. And I don't think anyone uh in

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<v Speaker 3>the administration, certainly not in Congress UH believes that we

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<v Speaker 3>should lessen our defenses in some way?

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<v Speaker 1>Dy dy, do you understand the Trump p Moscow pivot,

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<v Speaker 1>the the Washington Moscow pivot that seems to don away

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<v Speaker 1>at the moment.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't understand it. I do know that sometimes, uh,

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<v Speaker 3>the administration will do something for effect or for some

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<v Speaker 3>purpose that we don't see yet. Uh W We'll have

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<v Speaker 3>to be somewhat patiently.

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<v Speaker 2>So you're willing to give them the benefits of the

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<v Speaker 2>doubt right now?

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<v Speaker 3>Well not, I'm not a I don't give them the

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<v Speaker 3>benefit of the doubt. About Russia. I think Russia, it's

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<v Speaker 3>very clear. Uh. Russia invaded a sovereign nation and Ukraine

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<v Speaker 3>has fought valiantly. I think our interest is that we

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<v Speaker 3>not let Putin have a free hand to do something

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<v Speaker 3>like this, which would embolden him to do more. He

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<v Speaker 3>did this with Georgia, he did it on Crimea. Now

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<v Speaker 3>he's doing it with the donbos Uh part of Ukraine.

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<v Speaker 3>And if he gets by we're doing something like this,

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<v Speaker 3>he will go into the next country that he can

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<v Speaker 3>come ever and take over. So I don't think that

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<v Speaker 3>we will have a lasting piece if Russia gets its

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<v Speaker 3>way and there is no price to pay.

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<v Speaker 1>If there are peacekeeping troops put into Ukraine post some

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<v Speaker 1>sort of a peace settlements that the talking europe and

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<v Speaker 1>certainly kissed Armer and Emmanuel Macaron be talking about this

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<v Speaker 1>in their trips to Washington. The idea is that you

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<v Speaker 1>basically put European peace on the ground with European added

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<v Speaker 1>with the US air defense maybe as as cover. Is

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<v Speaker 1>that a reasonable plan, Is that something you could think

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<v Speaker 1>might be actually viable.

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<v Speaker 3>I think that it's certainly a point to negotiate Yuh,

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<v Speaker 3>that it would be with an American support system. We

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<v Speaker 3>did this in Afghanistan for instance, the Europeans were there,

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<v Speaker 3>they were active, they were very important at Framework nations.

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<v Speaker 1>UH.

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<v Speaker 3>But we were doing the air cover, we were doing

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<v Speaker 3>uh much that was needed that couldn't be done uh

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<v Speaker 3>by the Europeans. I think certainly there is a negotiation there.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know where yuh uh that ends, but I

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<v Speaker 3>think ah a peacekeeping uh place in the dawn boss

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<v Speaker 3>or Carimea uh is certainly a part of a negotiation.

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<v Speaker 3>And I think there may be some purpose in the

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<v Speaker 3>way this has started. I don't see it myself, but

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<v Speaker 3>it it could end up being uh A a good end.

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<v Speaker 3>I think a good end would be a lasting piece.

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<v Speaker 3>A lasting piece would mean that, of course Ukraine is rebuilt,

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<v Speaker 3>hopefully by Russia, by the Russian assets that were held

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<v Speaker 3>in Europe and the United States, but also uh that

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<v Speaker 3>there be a the capability to show putin that he

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<v Speaker 3>cannot do this in the next country and then the

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<v Speaker 3>next country.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you think the Ukraine should pay for some of

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<v Speaker 1>that's a city with its mineral rights.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you think that is a reasonable trade?

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<v Speaker 3>I think uh. I I don't know what is being asked.

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<v Speaker 3>I really don't. I mean, that's being sort of close

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<v Speaker 3>help so I don't know what is a reasonable UH.

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<v Speaker 3>I w I wanna make sure that Ukraine gets the

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<v Speaker 3>benefit UH of their resources, and I think it is

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<v Speaker 3>important that there be uh a development of that. But

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<v Speaker 3>how that's worked out, I think is to be determined.

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<v Speaker 1>Tiber hutch Kate Bailey Hutcheson, Thank you very much, indeed,

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<v Speaker 1>very nice to see you. Thanks for stopping by to

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<v Speaker 1>see us. We greatly appreciate it.

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<v Speaker 3>Thank you,