Speaker 1: In this week's classic episode, we would like to present
Speaker 1: to you a very strange story that is at least
Speaker 1: partially true. And there's a story of a conspiracy halfway
Speaker 1: around the world, conspiracy that takes place in the darkest
Speaker 1: depths of classified institutions throughout the U. S. S R.
Speaker 1: If you're a longtime listener to the show, then you
Speaker 1: have doubtlessly heard of the United States program known as
Speaker 1: MK Ultra, and you've read any number of books, You've
Speaker 1: seen any number of documentaries about the us IS classified
Speaker 1: experiments with things like allegations of esp or psychic powers.
Speaker 1: But did you know that the U. S s R
Speaker 1: had its own program and so in form of paraspsychological
Speaker 1: research they called the psycho tronics, And like the US,
Speaker 1: they experimented in this field for a number of years.
Speaker 1: In fact, the some version of the Soviet era program
Speaker 1: continued until two thousand and three, at least officially. In
Speaker 1: today's Classic, we dive deep into the strange, twisted story
Speaker 1: of psychotronics from UFOs two, ghosts and government cover ups.
Speaker 1: History is writtled with unexplained events. You can turn back
Speaker 1: now or learn the stuff they don't want you to now. Hello, everyone,
Speaker 1: and welcome back to the show. My name is Matt
Speaker 1: the theyve been Actually, my real name is Ben, and
Speaker 1: I promise I won't do that accent anymore. Uh, Matt,
Speaker 1: I can always tell when things are about to get
Speaker 1: serious on our show, whether it's our video or audio,
Speaker 1: because you've got the E. You've got the E smoke going.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, sorry about that. No, it's cool. It
Speaker 1: reminds me of the caterpillar in Alice in Wonderlands. Oh wow,
Speaker 1: that's the look. I'm going for. Caterpillar with a hookah?
Speaker 1: Is that the That's that explains so much about our
Speaker 1: profile picks that we've been working on. Uh, we are
Speaker 1: talking today about two of my favorite subjects, government secrets
Speaker 1: and the search for psychic powers or just fringe science. Right,
Speaker 1: we're fans of that, Yes, anything on the fringe. You
Speaker 1: and I grew up loving The X Files, loving Twilight Zone,
Speaker 1: Outer Limits. Yeah, we even sat through a couple of
Speaker 1: the downer seasons of Fringe. Yeah it happened, it was.
Speaker 1: I'm on the fifth season, by the way, you should know.
Speaker 1: How are you still watching it? Yeah? I kin't finished it. Okay, well,
Speaker 1: please don't spoil it. I won't tell me. Hey, you
Speaker 1: know what, the writers did a good, good enough job
Speaker 1: spoiling fresh help. Don't tell me that. Oh no, I'm kidding.
Speaker 1: It's it's one man's opinion. But when we are talking
Speaker 1: about these things, we naturally go to one of the
Speaker 1: coolest subjects we've talked about in a while, which was
Speaker 1: the Soviet version of m k Ultra. I mean, that's
Speaker 1: what we called on the show, right, Yeah, Well, it's
Speaker 1: also the Soviet version of Project Stargate. Yeah, it's it's
Speaker 1: got a lot of similarities to the weirdness that our
Speaker 1: own the US government was doing. Now, what was Project Stargate.
Speaker 1: Project Stargate was basically, again trying to make psychic soldiers
Speaker 1: in the US, trying to figure out a way to
Speaker 1: unlock this weird mind body connection that was considered pseudoscience
Speaker 1: by even a lot of people who were doing it.
Speaker 1: But but they wanted to make sure that it wasn't real,
Speaker 1: you know, So that perhaps we talked about in the
Speaker 1: episode that if if it is real and we just
Speaker 1: aren't spending the money to research it and one of
Speaker 1: our enemies does, then we're in a whole heap of trouble. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And when we when we're talking about psychic powers, I
Speaker 1: don't know about you, guys, I like specifics. We're specifically
Speaker 1: talking about UM. One of one of the biggest things
Speaker 1: they researched on the u S side was out of
Speaker 1: body experience. Is it possible to train people to train
Speaker 1: soldiers or intelligence operatives to travel remotely and to somehow
Speaker 1: perceive things thousands of kilometers away? Yeah, remote viewing man,
Speaker 1: that was one of the biggest pushes. Yeah, that's the
Speaker 1: term remote viewing. Ingo Swan one of the biggest guys
Speaker 1: in this UM and I used to when I was
Speaker 1: a kid. I had those Time Life mystery books that
Speaker 1: talked about Ingo Swan at length. And it's interesting because
Speaker 1: Swan maintains that he really has a legitimate ability to
Speaker 1: do this, and other people have worked with him have
Speaker 1: argued the same thing, but not all of them, And
Speaker 1: quite a few people have said, well, the reason that
Speaker 1: this was shut down is because ultimately we just found
Speaker 1: out that there was no real ability to do this,
Speaker 1: or that even if this ability existed, it was not
Speaker 1: applicable or useful. Yeah, and it wasn't accurate enough, right,
Speaker 1: which is kind of what UM sony was. It Sony
Speaker 1: kind of Sony said, when they shut down, there's their
Speaker 1: ESP program. Yep, true story, you guys, Sony had an
Speaker 1: ESP program. That's the story for another day, and they
Speaker 1: used it in in all of their CD technologies. As
Speaker 1: we see, it's crazy it actually says ESP on there
Speaker 1: you remember that having that No, that's perfect. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: a good point because it's it's uh, it's range. We
Speaker 1: that's one of the things that you and I didn't
Speaker 1: believe when we first started reading it. We were convinced
Speaker 1: that ESP stood for some other acronym, you know, like
Speaker 1: Electronic Sound provider or something like that. Yeah, but this
Speaker 1: this one was a real ESP program, and the US
Speaker 1: of course had them as well. Uh, the Soviet ideas
Speaker 1: were very different. Um. Now, a lot of this that
Speaker 1: comes to us comes from recently to classify documents, and
Speaker 1: they are just the the tip of a red iceberg here. Huh.
Speaker 1: I know, but they are. I just I wrote it
Speaker 1: down earlier, so I wanted to try it out. But
Speaker 1: these these programs, um if the information we're getting can
Speaker 1: be trusted, began in nineteen seventeen, which is the year
Speaker 1: of the Russian Revolution, so it predates the US US
Speaker 1: are and that's interesting to continue to two thousand three officially,
Speaker 1: which is even more interesting to me. And they did
Speaker 1: research in a different way. Their research was meant to
Speaker 1: be a little more quantitative rather than qualitative, right, so
Speaker 1: they measured the UM. They they wanted to walk away
Speaker 1: with concrete numbers and compare and compile and analyze, uh,
Speaker 1: these pieces of data so that they could figure out
Speaker 1: if there was really something going on. And a lot
Speaker 1: of their experiments focused not so much on remote viewing
Speaker 1: as they did on UM. The idea of electro magnetic
Speaker 1: or electrochemical fields. Yeah, yeah, exactly. That it's that that
Speaker 1: free energy that's been searched for since we figure since
Speaker 1: man has figured out that there is energy or there's
Speaker 1: some kind of ectricity or power that you can harness
Speaker 1: in the environment, and there's so many people who have
Speaker 1: looked for it and failed to find it, at least
Speaker 1: in my opinion, Tesla arguing, yeah, and uh, we we
Speaker 1: know that the we know that the governments of the
Speaker 1: time in the USSR was on board with a lot
Speaker 1: of this stuff. And you can see some fascinating photographs
Speaker 1: of devices that people have built with the idea that
Speaker 1: they would harness this energy through things called serpan um
Speaker 1: strange looking things. They look like thermos is almost Yeah.
Speaker 1: They handles their cylindrical with these handles, don't know. Some
Speaker 1: of them were strapped two people. Some of them were
Speaker 1: simply held, uh. The idea being that if all living
Speaker 1: things emanate this field in some way, then we could
Speaker 1: build something that would aggregate and apply or direct this energy.
Speaker 1: And they were directing it with the with the hope
Speaker 1: of doing things like, um, having plants grow faster was one.
Speaker 1: Producing neurological effects, so having someone's brain function be affected
Speaker 1: in some way, which is frighteningly vague. Yeah, I know, yeah,
Speaker 1: oh man, but that that would be great if you
Speaker 1: could somehow really send out in an enhancing intelligence ray
Speaker 1: with some device that was strapped onto you. I guess
Speaker 1: you need a group of people and if it worked
Speaker 1: the way they thought it would work, right, Yeah, they
Speaker 1: did think it was a cumulative effect. Um. But they
Speaker 1: also they also focused on you know, this was one
Speaker 1: of their most interesting areas of focus and something that
Speaker 1: the US wasn't really focused on. They also used these
Speaker 1: torsion generators. We do have to point out that the Russians,
Speaker 1: or rather the Soviets at this time did have UH
Speaker 1: psychics that they would conduct tests on, and those tests
Speaker 1: would be some of the same stuff we hear in
Speaker 1: the United States, you know. Uh, the idea of whether
Speaker 1: or not clairvoyance existed, which was not proven satisfactorily. The
Speaker 1: idea whether or not there would be UM an ability
Speaker 1: to predict the future. It's also not proven very well.
Speaker 1: Uh telekinesis, which as much as I wanted to be real,
Speaker 1: was not proven. Um. Again, if you believe that any
Speaker 1: of those things truly are real right now listening to
Speaker 1: this podcast, um. And I don't mean to sound like
Speaker 1: an extreme skeptic, because I'm certainly not. As soon as
Speaker 1: I have evidence that shows me that any of those
Speaker 1: things are real, I'm down because I I want to believe,
Speaker 1: just like the old X Files. But you should really
Speaker 1: talk to or listen to James Randy because the guy
Speaker 1: makes some really great points just about how he's offering
Speaker 1: craploads of money to anybody that can prove this stuff.
Speaker 1: Oh that's right, Yes, the famous one million dollars for
Speaker 1: proof of any UH psychic, parapsychological or paranormal phenomenon by
Speaker 1: James Randy and it's a little bit controversial. In fact,
Speaker 1: I'd like to do a podcast on that maybe in
Speaker 1: the future. I'm gonna be totally honest with you, though
Speaker 1: this is a part where we might differ. I think
Speaker 1: that it is quite possible that in the future we
Speaker 1: will come to understand a scientific explanation or what we
Speaker 1: perceive um occasionally to be psychic powers. I don't know
Speaker 1: what I don't. I don't think somebody's gonna go, oh,
Speaker 1: telekinesis is real and we just discovered it in I
Speaker 1: think that's preposterous, but could be some kind of fourth
Speaker 1: dimensional time distortion. Right. We understand so little about the
Speaker 1: nature of consciousness, the nature of physics, especially at a
Speaker 1: very small and very large level that we are we
Speaker 1: we don't even we don't even have gravity figured out.
Speaker 1: I mean, if you think about the potential span of
Speaker 1: human history, my friend, we are still in the dark ages.
Speaker 1: So I think I'm gonna be a little more optimistic
Speaker 1: about it. We don't we don't have the tools yet
Speaker 1: to discover the explanations behind a lot of these things
Speaker 1: UM or the explanations behind a lot of these reports.
Speaker 1: We do know that there are quite a few mundane
Speaker 1: things that can explain stuff like the feeling of deja
Speaker 1: vu has a fairly there's a fairly solid theory of
Speaker 1: what happens in our brain that makes us perceive that. Right.
Speaker 1: They didn't have this when they were doing a lot
Speaker 1: of these Cold War experiments, right, and Uh, they had
Speaker 1: some enemies. We talked about the Academy of Russian Scientists
Speaker 1: hated these programs because they, you know, this was centralized funding.
Speaker 1: So they said, you government are taking funding for real
Speaker 1: science and applying it to pseudo science. Right. But there's
Speaker 1: a I think there was a bit of cynicism in
Speaker 1: some of these programs. We do know that the Soviets
Speaker 1: also sent people to uh Shangra Law to out to
Speaker 1: search the the steps and and uh comb through Tibet
Speaker 1: for um. I think propaganda purposes more than anything else.
Speaker 1: I don't think they were really out to discover some
Speaker 1: ancient secrets so much as they were to discover some
Speaker 1: brilliant marketing. Yeah. That would have been just a little
Speaker 1: icing on the cake if they had actually discovered something crazy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And there's an interesting part here when we talk about this, uh,
Speaker 1: when we talk about what they did discover, because here's
Speaker 1: the weird part. We don't know, I don't have any idea,
Speaker 1: isn't that always? Man? That is the case so often
Speaker 1: with us, just because we there's so much information that's
Speaker 1: withheld uh from everyone that we kind of get up
Speaker 1: against this wall. And just for if you're a new
Speaker 1: listener perhaps to the show, we really trying to not
Speaker 1: speculate as much as give you the information that is
Speaker 1: there and then you know, go maybe a couple inches
Speaker 1: over that line, just to let you know what we think.
Speaker 1: There's uh yeah. And in this respect, there are some
Speaker 1: things that we can say about Russian UM or Soviet
Speaker 1: research in these fields. We know that, for instance, we
Speaker 1: know that both a former defense minister and uh Putin
Speaker 1: himself have talked about the future of unconventional weapons. We
Speaker 1: also know that in the West research on these directed
Speaker 1: energy weapons UH is occurring. We know that the technology
Speaker 1: exists to give people the sensation that they are hearing voices,
Speaker 1: which is freaky, right. You have me to that one
Speaker 1: man that gives me not We we know it's it's
Speaker 1: fairly obvious that the actual bleeding edge or cutting edge
Speaker 1: of technology is several years at minimum ahead of what
Speaker 1: the public thinks it is. Like one of the latest
Speaker 1: revelations that just came out, which will be a few
Speaker 1: weeks old now when this publishes, which we posted to
Speaker 1: our Facebook earlier today, was that the n s A
Speaker 1: doesn't need an Internet connection to hack a computer anymore.
Speaker 1: It just needs a radio signal, just needs a radio
Speaker 1: wave and a little gadget about the size of a
Speaker 1: briefcase that some unsuspecting dude is carrying around. Oh but
Speaker 1: don't worry, it's not in the United States, right, Sorry
Speaker 1: everybody else. Yeah, but the but the point we're making
Speaker 1: is that it is completely possible that some of this
Speaker 1: fringe research into really crazy stuff lead to applicable results.
Speaker 1: I like the comparison. I wanted to ask you what
Speaker 1: you about this comparison met um so in alchemy right
Speaker 1: way back in the dark ages, right them the weird
Speaker 1: hippie uh cultish father of chemistry, alchemy, people were conducting
Speaker 1: experiments to see what would happen to try to create
Speaker 1: life with a homolocus or it might pronounce that yes,
Speaker 1: and trying to explain magic in some ways, trying to
Speaker 1: change everything into gold and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: Um And in most cases these alchemists did not discover
Speaker 1: what they thought they were discovering, but they discovered other
Speaker 1: things because they were curious and they didn't mind getting
Speaker 1: their hands a little dirty and gold leafed. Right. No, really, Ben,
Speaker 1: we really just need more curiosity, I think, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: So they discovered things not necessarily what they meant to discover,
Speaker 1: but they did find valuable innovations because they were curious
Speaker 1: and they were attempting to be methodical. I think the
Speaker 1: same thing could happen here. I mean, history is lousy
Speaker 1: with examples of people who accidentally discovered something while they
Speaker 1: were doing something else, Like the guy who invented the
Speaker 1: microwave didn't mean to cook food with it. That chocolate
Speaker 1: bar just melted. Yeah, exactly. And we have just a
Speaker 1: small inkling of what is actually being discovered. And we
Speaker 1: know we bring up the active denial system right in
Speaker 1: in our video and uh, it's it's freaky, it's a
Speaker 1: pain ray. Uh. We still don't know what Russia might
Speaker 1: have on the other side. And it's strange that governments
Speaker 1: could change but the same documents would remain classified, isn't it.
Speaker 1: And essentially it's so weird to me the idea that
Speaker 1: a government would change, but your your armed forces are
Speaker 1: going to be fairly similar unless they're involved in whatever
Speaker 1: whatever uprising occurs to change the government if an uprising occurs.
Speaker 1: So if the KGB just took over, yeah, it's really
Speaker 1: interesting with thinking about Sorry, my brain just went somewhere
Speaker 1: completely different, but just the changing of guard between different governments. Um,
Speaker 1: how much of that underlying research or that underlying UM
Speaker 1: technology would still exist? And I would say that it
Speaker 1: probably would. Oh yeah, we well we know that, uh,
Speaker 1: we know that in the case of nuclear technology, um,
Speaker 1: there were proliferating nukes and know how that we're spreading
Speaker 1: around as NATO and Russia self work to stop the
Speaker 1: transmission of those UM worked finger quotes stop finger quotes,
Speaker 1: but you know they made the plight noises. We wanted
Speaker 1: to let everybody know that there's a there's this great
Speaker 1: document that we read Unconventional Research in USS are in
Speaker 1: Russia A short overview. It's free online right now. You
Speaker 1: can just go and google it. The author's name is
Speaker 1: Serge Kernbach, that's S. E. R G E. And in
Speaker 1: this document you will find a list of the stuff
Speaker 1: that we know they tried, a list of the funding
Speaker 1: and some of the notable scientists. Um, that's where the
Speaker 1: rabbit hole begins. That's the ground surface. You can find
Speaker 1: much more interesting stuff in. My favorite part about that
Speaker 1: article are the pictures. Yeah, because that's what I deal with,
Speaker 1: and I was able to use a bunch of them
Speaker 1: in our episode. Yeah. But we're able to find the
Speaker 1: serpan exactly. Um, And we want your thoughts on this.
Speaker 1: Do you think that government's continue psychic research? Do you
Speaker 1: think it was a big financial boom doggle and people
Speaker 1: are just paranoid. Do you think that you have evidence
Speaker 1: of psychic powers? Because if it checks out, we'll hope
Speaker 1: you win that million dollars. Um. But what we should
Speaker 1: also put up a link on our on our website
Speaker 1: that has uh has some more information about the James
Speaker 1: Randy Prize. I have a blog post about it from earlier,
Speaker 1: so you can check it out there. Um. And the
Speaker 1: very last thing I have to do, Matt, could I
Speaker 1: read you some listener mail? Oh? Please do? He says, Hey,
Speaker 1: Ben and Matt, my name's Hugh. First off, I want
Speaker 1: to thank you for providing a superlative source of irudition
Speaker 1: regarding stuff they don't want you to know, nice prodigious
Speaker 1: appropriation for the wide range of topics addressed, as well
Speaker 1: as the obvious in depth research conducted. Uh that was interesting. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: thanks for stepping it up vocabulary wise, there are you. Secondly,
Speaker 1: I wonder if you'd be interested in covering their knowing
Speaker 1: complicity IBM played in the nihilation of millions of Nazi
Speaker 1: concentration camp prisoners during World War Two. Now, this is
Speaker 1: something that you and I have talked about before, right Matt, Yes,
Speaker 1: yes we have, and uh, it's a It's another one
Speaker 1: of those heavy subjects. But I'm interested as much as
Speaker 1: you is. I'd like to tackle it as well. I
Speaker 1: think it's a great suggestion. Hugh calls it a slam
Speaker 1: dunk topic at the risk of being bromtic, and he's
Speaker 1: got some great citations here about books written UH many
Speaker 1: by Edwin Black Um. One that might be interesting to
Speaker 1: you listeners out there IBM in the holocaust of the
Speaker 1: strategic alliance between Nazi Germany America's most powerful corporation. Now,
Speaker 1: one thing that we do know about this is that
Speaker 1: the um the role of private corporations in the rise
Speaker 1: of the Nazi Party is an ugly part of history.
Speaker 1: That is also completely true. Also, though there were merit,
Speaker 1: there were American sympathizers with the Nazi Party who weren't
Speaker 1: just in in um highly placed influential positions of corporations,
Speaker 1: but we're also active politicians with popular support. UM. Now,
Speaker 1: of course, to be completely fair, in many cases, especially
Speaker 1: a lot of politicians cases, they had no idea what
Speaker 1: the Nazi Party was going to become and later go
Speaker 1: on to do. But this is an interesting topic and
Speaker 1: we love digging into the historical stuff. They don't want
Speaker 1: you to know. How what do you think, mat should
Speaker 1: we check it out? I think we we should. And
Speaker 1: we're coming right off the heels of talking about the
Speaker 1: eugenics programs that some Americans, with the help of some
Speaker 1: moneyed interests like basically set up in parts of Europe,
Speaker 1: including Germany. Oh yeah, that's an interesting detail. For everyone
Speaker 1: who hasn't seen our introduction video on eugenics in America,
Speaker 1: wole nice, I can't think of a better way to
Speaker 1: uh in this show here. Please check us out on iTunes.
Speaker 1: If you listen to to our podcast via iTunes, help
Speaker 1: us out and give us a rating if you're feeling charitable.
Speaker 1: Uh so that we can continue doing this podcast as
Speaker 1: well as our video show Matt. Where can people find us?
Speaker 1: You can always find us on Facebook and Twitter. We
Speaker 1: are at conspiracy stuff on both of those and that's
Speaker 1: the end of this classic episode. If you have any
Speaker 1: thoughts or questions about this episode, you can get into
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Speaker 1: of the best is to give us a call. Our
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