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Speaker 1: In this week's classic episode, we would like to present

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Speaker 1: to you a very strange story that is at least

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Speaker 1: partially true. And there's a story of a conspiracy halfway

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Speaker 1: around the world, conspiracy that takes place in the darkest

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Speaker 1: depths of classified institutions throughout the U. S. S R.

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Speaker 1: If you're a longtime listener to the show, then you

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Speaker 1: have doubtlessly heard of the United States program known as

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Speaker 1: MK Ultra, and you've read any number of books, You've

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Speaker 1: seen any number of documentaries about the us IS classified

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Speaker 1: experiments with things like allegations of esp or psychic powers.

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Speaker 1: But did you know that the U. S s R

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Speaker 1: had its own program and so in form of paraspsychological

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Speaker 1: research they called the psycho tronics, And like the US,

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Speaker 1: they experimented in this field for a number of years.

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Speaker 1: In fact, the some version of the Soviet era program

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Speaker 1: continued until two thousand and three, at least officially. In

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Speaker 1: today's Classic, we dive deep into the strange, twisted story

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Speaker 1: of psychotronics from UFOs two, ghosts and government cover ups.

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Speaker 1: History is writtled with unexplained events. You can turn back

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Speaker 1: now or learn the stuff they don't want you to now. Hello, everyone,

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Speaker 1: and welcome back to the show. My name is Matt

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Speaker 1: the theyve been Actually, my real name is Ben, and

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Speaker 1: I promise I won't do that accent anymore. Uh, Matt,

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Speaker 1: I can always tell when things are about to get

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Speaker 1: serious on our show, whether it's our video or audio,

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Speaker 1: because you've got the E. You've got the E smoke going.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, sorry about that. No, it's cool. It

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Speaker 1: reminds me of the caterpillar in Alice in Wonderlands. Oh wow,

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Speaker 1: that's the look. I'm going for. Caterpillar with a hookah?

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Speaker 1: Is that the That's that explains so much about our

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Speaker 1: profile picks that we've been working on. Uh, we are

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Speaker 1: talking today about two of my favorite subjects, government secrets

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Speaker 1: and the search for psychic powers or just fringe science. Right,

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Speaker 1: we're fans of that, Yes, anything on the fringe. You

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Speaker 1: and I grew up loving The X Files, loving Twilight Zone,

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Speaker 1: Outer Limits. Yeah, we even sat through a couple of

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Speaker 1: the downer seasons of Fringe. Yeah it happened, it was.

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Speaker 1: I'm on the fifth season, by the way, you should know.

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Speaker 1: How are you still watching it? Yeah? I kin't finished it. Okay, well,

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Speaker 1: please don't spoil it. I won't tell me. Hey, you

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Speaker 1: know what, the writers did a good, good enough job

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Speaker 1: spoiling fresh help. Don't tell me that. Oh no, I'm kidding.

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Speaker 1: It's it's one man's opinion. But when we are talking

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Speaker 1: about these things, we naturally go to one of the

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Speaker 1: coolest subjects we've talked about in a while, which was

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Speaker 1: the Soviet version of m k Ultra. I mean, that's

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Speaker 1: what we called on the show, right, Yeah, Well, it's

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Speaker 1: also the Soviet version of Project Stargate. Yeah, it's it's

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Speaker 1: got a lot of similarities to the weirdness that our

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Speaker 1: own the US government was doing. Now, what was Project Stargate.

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Speaker 1: Project Stargate was basically, again trying to make psychic soldiers

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Speaker 1: in the US, trying to figure out a way to

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Speaker 1: unlock this weird mind body connection that was considered pseudoscience

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Speaker 1: by even a lot of people who were doing it.

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Speaker 1: But but they wanted to make sure that it wasn't real,

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Speaker 1: you know, So that perhaps we talked about in the

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Speaker 1: episode that if if it is real and we just

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Speaker 1: aren't spending the money to research it and one of

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Speaker 1: our enemies does, then we're in a whole heap of trouble. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And when we when we're talking about psychic powers, I

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Speaker 1: don't know about you, guys, I like specifics. We're specifically

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Speaker 1: talking about UM. One of one of the biggest things

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Speaker 1: they researched on the u S side was out of

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Speaker 1: body experience. Is it possible to train people to train

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Speaker 1: soldiers or intelligence operatives to travel remotely and to somehow

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Speaker 1: perceive things thousands of kilometers away? Yeah, remote viewing man,

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Speaker 1: that was one of the biggest pushes. Yeah, that's the

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Speaker 1: term remote viewing. Ingo Swan one of the biggest guys

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Speaker 1: in this UM and I used to when I was

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Speaker 1: a kid. I had those Time Life mystery books that

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Speaker 1: talked about Ingo Swan at length. And it's interesting because

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Speaker 1: Swan maintains that he really has a legitimate ability to

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Speaker 1: do this, and other people have worked with him have

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Speaker 1: argued the same thing, but not all of them, And

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Speaker 1: quite a few people have said, well, the reason that

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Speaker 1: this was shut down is because ultimately we just found

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Speaker 1: out that there was no real ability to do this,

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Speaker 1: or that even if this ability existed, it was not

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Speaker 1: applicable or useful. Yeah, and it wasn't accurate enough, right,

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Speaker 1: which is kind of what UM sony was. It Sony

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Speaker 1: kind of Sony said, when they shut down, there's their

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Speaker 1: ESP program. Yep, true story, you guys, Sony had an

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Speaker 1: ESP program. That's the story for another day, and they

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Speaker 1: used it in in all of their CD technologies. As

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Speaker 1: we see, it's crazy it actually says ESP on there

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Speaker 1: you remember that having that No, that's perfect. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: a good point because it's it's uh, it's range. We

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Speaker 1: that's one of the things that you and I didn't

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Speaker 1: believe when we first started reading it. We were convinced

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Speaker 1: that ESP stood for some other acronym, you know, like

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Speaker 1: Electronic Sound provider or something like that. Yeah, but this

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Speaker 1: this one was a real ESP program, and the US

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Speaker 1: of course had them as well. Uh, the Soviet ideas

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Speaker 1: were very different. Um. Now, a lot of this that

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Speaker 1: comes to us comes from recently to classify documents, and

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Speaker 1: they are just the the tip of a red iceberg here. Huh.

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Speaker 1: I know, but they are. I just I wrote it

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Speaker 1: down earlier, so I wanted to try it out. But

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Speaker 1: these these programs, um if the information we're getting can

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Speaker 1: be trusted, began in nineteen seventeen, which is the year

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Speaker 1: of the Russian Revolution, so it predates the US US

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Speaker 1: are and that's interesting to continue to two thousand three officially,

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Speaker 1: which is even more interesting to me. And they did

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Speaker 1: research in a different way. Their research was meant to

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Speaker 1: be a little more quantitative rather than qualitative, right, so

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Speaker 1: they measured the UM. They they wanted to walk away

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Speaker 1: with concrete numbers and compare and compile and analyze, uh,

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Speaker 1: these pieces of data so that they could figure out

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Speaker 1: if there was really something going on. And a lot

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Speaker 1: of their experiments focused not so much on remote viewing

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Speaker 1: as they did on UM. The idea of electro magnetic

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Speaker 1: or electrochemical fields. Yeah, yeah, exactly. That it's that that

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Speaker 1: free energy that's been searched for since we figure since

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Speaker 1: man has figured out that there is energy or there's

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Speaker 1: some kind of ectricity or power that you can harness

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Speaker 1: in the environment, and there's so many people who have

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Speaker 1: looked for it and failed to find it, at least

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Speaker 1: in my opinion, Tesla arguing, yeah, and uh, we we

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Speaker 1: know that the we know that the governments of the

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Speaker 1: time in the USSR was on board with a lot

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Speaker 1: of this stuff. And you can see some fascinating photographs

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Speaker 1: of devices that people have built with the idea that

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Speaker 1: they would harness this energy through things called serpan um

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Speaker 1: strange looking things. They look like thermos is almost Yeah.

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Speaker 1: They handles their cylindrical with these handles, don't know. Some

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Speaker 1: of them were strapped two people. Some of them were

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Speaker 1: simply held, uh. The idea being that if all living

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Speaker 1: things emanate this field in some way, then we could

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Speaker 1: build something that would aggregate and apply or direct this energy.

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Speaker 1: And they were directing it with the with the hope

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Speaker 1: of doing things like, um, having plants grow faster was one.

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Speaker 1: Producing neurological effects, so having someone's brain function be affected

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Speaker 1: in some way, which is frighteningly vague. Yeah, I know, yeah,

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Speaker 1: oh man, but that that would be great if you

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Speaker 1: could somehow really send out in an enhancing intelligence ray

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Speaker 1: with some device that was strapped onto you. I guess

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Speaker 1: you need a group of people and if it worked

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Speaker 1: the way they thought it would work, right, Yeah, they

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Speaker 1: did think it was a cumulative effect. Um. But they

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Speaker 1: also they also focused on you know, this was one

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Speaker 1: of their most interesting areas of focus and something that

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Speaker 1: the US wasn't really focused on. They also used these

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Speaker 1: torsion generators. We do have to point out that the Russians,

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Speaker 1: or rather the Soviets at this time did have UH

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Speaker 1: psychics that they would conduct tests on, and those tests

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Speaker 1: would be some of the same stuff we hear in

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Speaker 1: the United States, you know. Uh, the idea of whether

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Speaker 1: or not clairvoyance existed, which was not proven satisfactorily. The

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Speaker 1: idea whether or not there would be UM an ability

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Speaker 1: to predict the future. It's also not proven very well.

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Speaker 1: Uh telekinesis, which as much as I wanted to be real,

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Speaker 1: was not proven. Um. Again, if you believe that any

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Speaker 1: of those things truly are real right now listening to

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Speaker 1: this podcast, um. And I don't mean to sound like

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Speaker 1: an extreme skeptic, because I'm certainly not. As soon as

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Speaker 1: I have evidence that shows me that any of those

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Speaker 1: things are real, I'm down because I I want to believe,

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Speaker 1: just like the old X Files. But you should really

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Speaker 1: talk to or listen to James Randy because the guy

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Speaker 1: makes some really great points just about how he's offering

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Speaker 1: craploads of money to anybody that can prove this stuff.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's right, Yes, the famous one million dollars for

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Speaker 1: proof of any UH psychic, parapsychological or paranormal phenomenon by

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Speaker 1: James Randy and it's a little bit controversial. In fact,

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Speaker 1: I'd like to do a podcast on that maybe in

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Speaker 1: the future. I'm gonna be totally honest with you, though

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Speaker 1: this is a part where we might differ. I think

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Speaker 1: that it is quite possible that in the future we

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Speaker 1: will come to understand a scientific explanation or what we

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Speaker 1: perceive um occasionally to be psychic powers. I don't know

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Speaker 1: what I don't. I don't think somebody's gonna go, oh,

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Speaker 1: telekinesis is real and we just discovered it in I

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Speaker 1: think that's preposterous, but could be some kind of fourth

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Speaker 1: dimensional time distortion. Right. We understand so little about the

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Speaker 1: nature of consciousness, the nature of physics, especially at a

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Speaker 1: very small and very large level that we are we

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Speaker 1: we don't even we don't even have gravity figured out.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if you think about the potential span of

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Speaker 1: human history, my friend, we are still in the dark ages.

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Speaker 1: So I think I'm gonna be a little more optimistic

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Speaker 1: about it. We don't we don't have the tools yet

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Speaker 1: to discover the explanations behind a lot of these things

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Speaker 1: UM or the explanations behind a lot of these reports.

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Speaker 1: We do know that there are quite a few mundane

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Speaker 1: things that can explain stuff like the feeling of deja

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Speaker 1: vu has a fairly there's a fairly solid theory of

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Speaker 1: what happens in our brain that makes us perceive that. Right.

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Speaker 1: They didn't have this when they were doing a lot

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Speaker 1: of these Cold War experiments, right, and Uh, they had

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Speaker 1: some enemies. We talked about the Academy of Russian Scientists

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Speaker 1: hated these programs because they, you know, this was centralized funding.

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Speaker 1: So they said, you government are taking funding for real

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Speaker 1: science and applying it to pseudo science. Right. But there's

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Speaker 1: a I think there was a bit of cynicism in

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Speaker 1: some of these programs. We do know that the Soviets

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Speaker 1: also sent people to uh Shangra Law to out to

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Speaker 1: search the the steps and and uh comb through Tibet

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Speaker 1: for um. I think propaganda purposes more than anything else.

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Speaker 1: I don't think they were really out to discover some

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Speaker 1: ancient secrets so much as they were to discover some

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Speaker 1: brilliant marketing. Yeah. That would have been just a little

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Speaker 1: icing on the cake if they had actually discovered something crazy. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And there's an interesting part here when we talk about this, uh,

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Speaker 1: when we talk about what they did discover, because here's

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Speaker 1: the weird part. We don't know, I don't have any idea,

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Speaker 1: isn't that always? Man? That is the case so often

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Speaker 1: with us, just because we there's so much information that's

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Speaker 1: withheld uh from everyone that we kind of get up

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Speaker 1: against this wall. And just for if you're a new

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Speaker 1: listener perhaps to the show, we really trying to not

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Speaker 1: speculate as much as give you the information that is

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Speaker 1: there and then you know, go maybe a couple inches

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Speaker 1: over that line, just to let you know what we think.

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Speaker 1: There's uh yeah. And in this respect, there are some

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Speaker 1: things that we can say about Russian UM or Soviet

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Speaker 1: research in these fields. We know that, for instance, we

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Speaker 1: know that both a former defense minister and uh Putin

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Speaker 1: himself have talked about the future of unconventional weapons. We

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Speaker 1: also know that in the West research on these directed

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Speaker 1: energy weapons UH is occurring. We know that the technology

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Speaker 1: exists to give people the sensation that they are hearing voices,

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Speaker 1: which is freaky, right. You have me to that one

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Speaker 1: man that gives me not We we know it's it's

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Speaker 1: fairly obvious that the actual bleeding edge or cutting edge

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Speaker 1: of technology is several years at minimum ahead of what

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Speaker 1: the public thinks it is. Like one of the latest

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Speaker 1: revelations that just came out, which will be a few

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Speaker 1: weeks old now when this publishes, which we posted to

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Speaker 1: our Facebook earlier today, was that the n s A

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Speaker 1: doesn't need an Internet connection to hack a computer anymore.

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Speaker 1: It just needs a radio signal, just needs a radio

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Speaker 1: wave and a little gadget about the size of a

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Speaker 1: briefcase that some unsuspecting dude is carrying around. Oh but

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Speaker 1: don't worry, it's not in the United States, right, Sorry

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Speaker 1: everybody else. Yeah, but the but the point we're making

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Speaker 1: is that it is completely possible that some of this

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Speaker 1: fringe research into really crazy stuff lead to applicable results.

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Speaker 1: I like the comparison. I wanted to ask you what

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Speaker 1: you about this comparison met um so in alchemy right

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Speaker 1: way back in the dark ages, right them the weird

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Speaker 1: hippie uh cultish father of chemistry, alchemy, people were conducting

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Speaker 1: experiments to see what would happen to try to create

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Speaker 1: life with a homolocus or it might pronounce that yes,

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Speaker 1: and trying to explain magic in some ways, trying to

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Speaker 1: change everything into gold and all that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 1: Um And in most cases these alchemists did not discover

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Speaker 1: what they thought they were discovering, but they discovered other

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Speaker 1: things because they were curious and they didn't mind getting

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Speaker 1: their hands a little dirty and gold leafed. Right. No, really, Ben,

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Speaker 1: we really just need more curiosity, I think, yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: So they discovered things not necessarily what they meant to discover,

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Speaker 1: but they did find valuable innovations because they were curious

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Speaker 1: and they were attempting to be methodical. I think the

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Speaker 1: same thing could happen here. I mean, history is lousy

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Speaker 1: with examples of people who accidentally discovered something while they

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Speaker 1: were doing something else, Like the guy who invented the

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Speaker 1: microwave didn't mean to cook food with it. That chocolate

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Speaker 1: bar just melted. Yeah, exactly. And we have just a

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Speaker 1: small inkling of what is actually being discovered. And we

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Speaker 1: know we bring up the active denial system right in

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Speaker 1: in our video and uh, it's it's freaky, it's a

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Speaker 1: pain ray. Uh. We still don't know what Russia might

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Speaker 1: have on the other side. And it's strange that governments

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Speaker 1: could change but the same documents would remain classified, isn't it.

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Speaker 1: And essentially it's so weird to me the idea that

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Speaker 1: a government would change, but your your armed forces are

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Speaker 1: going to be fairly similar unless they're involved in whatever

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Speaker 1: whatever uprising occurs to change the government if an uprising occurs.

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Speaker 1: So if the KGB just took over, yeah, it's really

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Speaker 1: interesting with thinking about Sorry, my brain just went somewhere

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Speaker 1: completely different, but just the changing of guard between different governments. Um,

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Speaker 1: how much of that underlying research or that underlying UM

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Speaker 1: technology would still exist? And I would say that it

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Speaker 1: probably would. Oh yeah, we well we know that, uh,

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Speaker 1: we know that in the case of nuclear technology, um,

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Speaker 1: there were proliferating nukes and know how that we're spreading

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Speaker 1: around as NATO and Russia self work to stop the

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Speaker 1: transmission of those UM worked finger quotes stop finger quotes,

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Speaker 1: but you know they made the plight noises. We wanted

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Speaker 1: to let everybody know that there's a there's this great

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Speaker 1: document that we read Unconventional Research in USS are in

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Speaker 1: Russia A short overview. It's free online right now. You

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Speaker 1: can just go and google it. The author's name is

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Speaker 1: Serge Kernbach, that's S. E. R G E. And in

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Speaker 1: this document you will find a list of the stuff

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Speaker 1: that we know they tried, a list of the funding

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Speaker 1: and some of the notable scientists. Um, that's where the

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Speaker 1: rabbit hole begins. That's the ground surface. You can find

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Speaker 1: much more interesting stuff in. My favorite part about that

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Speaker 1: article are the pictures. Yeah, because that's what I deal with,

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Speaker 1: and I was able to use a bunch of them

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Speaker 1: in our episode. Yeah. But we're able to find the

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Speaker 1: serpan exactly. Um, And we want your thoughts on this.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that government's continue psychic research? Do you

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Speaker 1: think it was a big financial boom doggle and people

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Speaker 1: are just paranoid. Do you think that you have evidence

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Speaker 1: of psychic powers? Because if it checks out, we'll hope

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Speaker 1: you win that million dollars. Um. But what we should

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Speaker 1: also put up a link on our on our website

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Speaker 1: that has uh has some more information about the James

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Speaker 1: Randy Prize. I have a blog post about it from earlier,

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Speaker 1: so you can check it out there. Um. And the

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Speaker 1: very last thing I have to do, Matt, could I

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Speaker 1: read you some listener mail? Oh? Please do? He says, Hey,

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Speaker 1: Ben and Matt, my name's Hugh. First off, I want

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Speaker 1: to thank you for providing a superlative source of irudition

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Speaker 1: regarding stuff they don't want you to know, nice prodigious

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Speaker 1: appropriation for the wide range of topics addressed, as well

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Speaker 1: as the obvious in depth research conducted. Uh that was interesting. Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: thanks for stepping it up vocabulary wise, there are you. Secondly,

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Speaker 1: I wonder if you'd be interested in covering their knowing

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Speaker 1: complicity IBM played in the nihilation of millions of Nazi

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Speaker 1: concentration camp prisoners during World War Two. Now, this is

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Speaker 1: something that you and I have talked about before, right Matt, Yes,

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Speaker 1: yes we have, and uh, it's a It's another one

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Speaker 1: of those heavy subjects. But I'm interested as much as

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Speaker 1: you is. I'd like to tackle it as well. I

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Speaker 1: think it's a great suggestion. Hugh calls it a slam

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Speaker 1: dunk topic at the risk of being bromtic, and he's

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Speaker 1: got some great citations here about books written UH many

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Speaker 1: by Edwin Black Um. One that might be interesting to

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Speaker 1: you listeners out there IBM in the holocaust of the

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Speaker 1: strategic alliance between Nazi Germany America's most powerful corporation. Now,

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Speaker 1: one thing that we do know about this is that

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Speaker 1: the um the role of private corporations in the rise

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Speaker 1: of the Nazi Party is an ugly part of history.

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Speaker 1: That is also completely true. Also, though there were merit,

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Speaker 1: there were American sympathizers with the Nazi Party who weren't

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Speaker 1: just in in um highly placed influential positions of corporations,

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Speaker 1: but we're also active politicians with popular support. UM. Now,

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Speaker 1: of course, to be completely fair, in many cases, especially

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Speaker 1: a lot of politicians cases, they had no idea what

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Speaker 1: the Nazi Party was going to become and later go

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Speaker 1: on to do. But this is an interesting topic and

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Speaker 1: we love digging into the historical stuff. They don't want

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Speaker 1: you to know. How what do you think, mat should

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Speaker 1: we check it out? I think we we should. And

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Speaker 1: we're coming right off the heels of talking about the

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Speaker 1: eugenics programs that some Americans, with the help of some

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Speaker 1: moneyed interests like basically set up in parts of Europe,

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Speaker 1: including Germany. Oh yeah, that's an interesting detail. For everyone

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Speaker 1: who hasn't seen our introduction video on eugenics in America,

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Speaker 1: wole nice, I can't think of a better way to

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Speaker 1: uh in this show here. Please check us out on iTunes.

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Speaker 1: If you listen to to our podcast via iTunes, help

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Speaker 1: us out and give us a rating if you're feeling charitable.

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Speaker 1: Uh so that we can continue doing this podcast as

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Speaker 1: well as our video show Matt. Where can people find us?

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Speaker 1: You can always find us on Facebook and Twitter. We

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Speaker 1: are at conspiracy stuff on both of those and that's

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Speaker 1: the end of this classic episode. If you have any

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Speaker 1: thoughts or questions about this episode, you can get into

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Speaker 1: contact with us in a number of different ways. One

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Speaker 1: of the best is to give us a call. Our

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Speaker 1: number is one eight three three std w y t K.

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Speaker 1: If you don't want to do that, you can send

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Speaker 1: us a good old fashioned email. We are conspiracy at

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Speaker 1: i heart radio dot com. Stuff they Don't Want you

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Speaker 1: to Know is a production of I heart Radio. For

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