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Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey there and welcome back to the Book of Joe podcast.

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Speaker 1: It is me Tom Verducci and of course Joe Madden

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Speaker 1: on the other side.

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Speaker 2: Joe.

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Speaker 1: It's probably going to be an all WBC edition year

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Speaker 1: after a thrilling final and actually entire tournament at the WBC,

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Speaker 1: I don't think it could have worked out much better.

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Speaker 1: It could have worked that much better for the United

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Speaker 1: States team. We'll get into that in a minute. But yes,

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Speaker 1: Venezuela are the champions of the WBC. Actually the first

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Speaker 1: time with the six iterations of the WBC that Venezuela

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Speaker 1: comes out on top. As you know, Joe, a baseball

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Speaker 1: crazy country, it was.

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Speaker 2: It was quite the site.

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Speaker 1: First of all, give me give me your reactions on

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Speaker 1: you know, obviously it's a bit of an ups here,

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Speaker 1: but you know you've had players from Venezuela, many players

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Speaker 1: over the years that you know about historically great players

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Speaker 1: come from that country.

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Speaker 2: Your reaction to Venezuela being the WBC champs.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's it's not a surprise in a

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Speaker 3: sense because, like you're suggesting, they've had a great history

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Speaker 3: of baseball baseball players all Latin America has I mean,

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Speaker 3: any any of the Latin America teams to win that thing.

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Speaker 4: It's just it's never going to surprise.

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Speaker 3: I mean, of course, the United States being uh maybe

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Speaker 3: a larger potential supply of talent just based on population alone. However,

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Speaker 3: these these folks down there, when they start out as kids, man,

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Speaker 3: it's it's it's it's all they want to do. It's

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Speaker 3: all their parents want them to do. It's a way,

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Speaker 3: particularly from the Dominican like the Islands, maybe some Puerto

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Speaker 3: Rico and of course in under in Venezuela. But it's

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Speaker 3: a way too, you know, financial uh largesse. It's you're

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Speaker 3: going to make a name for yourself. You're going to

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Speaker 3: make some doughn you to do it while you're doing

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Speaker 3: something you love to do, and that is to play baseball.

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Speaker 3: So none of this, I hope nobody is really shocked

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Speaker 3: by that. I mean, the fact that the United States

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Speaker 3: has all these you know, wonderful big names, and maybe

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Speaker 3: the names aren't as large man for man with Venezuela,

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Speaker 3: but there's still really good baseball players. And furthermore, the

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Speaker 3: tournament's just a small snapshot. I mean, it's the beginning

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Speaker 3: of the year. You could see offensively, some guys really

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Speaker 3: weren't in the groove yet. So you're gonna have all

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Speaker 3: that to consider. And that's really the time for David

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Speaker 3: the slagliathe would be at this moment of the year

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Speaker 3: when people really haven't had a chance to get everything together. So, yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's a great history that they have. You could start

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Speaker 3: recontisting of Louis Aparicio first, right, or maybe Ozzie Gee

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Speaker 3: and second short stops. But it's not a surprise. They

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Speaker 3: played well. They pitched well.

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Speaker 4: At the end.

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Speaker 3: They of the kid from the Cubbies through the ball

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Speaker 3: really really well. So it's up for anybody to grab

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Speaker 3: right there, because these are really good baseball players.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I know there's and we'll get into this,

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Speaker 1: there's always going to be criticism of the USA team

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Speaker 1: when they do not win, and some of that criticism is, well,

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Speaker 1: they don't want it as badly enough because obviously when

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Speaker 1: you watch these games, they just you know, there's cultural

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Speaker 1: differences just in the way they play baseball and the

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Speaker 1: way they respond to playing baseball.

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Speaker 2: They are not going to be.

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Speaker 1: As emotional as extroverted some of the Latin American countries.

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Speaker 1: It's just a difference of style. It doesn't mean I

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Speaker 1: don't think it means they care less Joe. But I

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Speaker 1: will say there's a difference to where their motivation is

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Speaker 1: coming from last night, after the game, being on the field,

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Speaker 1: I can tell you. And I don't know what's second here,

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Speaker 1: but I have never seen so many people I'm talking

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Speaker 1: about players and staff and coaches crying on a baseball

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Speaker 1: field after a win. I mean not just tears, I

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Speaker 1: mean flat out sobbing. They've got to use the sleeve

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Speaker 1: of their shirt to dry the tears. I cannot fathom

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Speaker 1: any victory for the United States team that would generate

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Speaker 1: the same reaction. And that's what I'm getting at here, folks.

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Speaker 1: It's just different. It's such a part of the culture.

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Speaker 1: It's the first time Venezuela has won the WBC. You

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Speaker 1: can throw in the fact everything that's been going on

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Speaker 1: in the country in the last seven or eight years,

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Speaker 1: the political upheaval, the economy. You know, it's tough for

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Speaker 1: a lot of these guys now for their families to

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Speaker 1: even get visas to come to the United States. Geopolitically, yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot there in the background. These are very

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Speaker 1: resilient people playing in very uncertain times, and you know

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Speaker 1: that is a factor in this. But the bottom line is,

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Speaker 1: I just can't fathom the USA being coming from a

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Speaker 1: motivation of hearts, right, not just competitively, but from the

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Speaker 1: heart that would elicit such an emotional reaction. It's one

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Speaker 1: thing if you're a Team USA and you rise to

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Speaker 1: the expectations that are put upon you, which are enormous, right.

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Speaker 2: I mean, we talked about the USA. It's either win

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Speaker 2: or bust all the time.

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Speaker 1: For the most of the time anyway, with these sports,

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Speaker 1: especially at WBC and Venezuela, is not just meeting expectations.

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Speaker 1: Of course, they want to win as well. You know

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Speaker 1: they're they're playing for thirty million people back home. So again,

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Speaker 1: I can't fathom a situation where Team USA would be

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Speaker 1: crying on a baseball field the way I thought.

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Speaker 2: I saw the authentic tiers of the Venezuelan team last

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Speaker 2: night after that win.

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Speaker 4: No question.

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Speaker 3: I mean, first of all, you look before the game,

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Speaker 3: I mean, you got you guys had a shot in

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Speaker 3: the dugout where the.

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Speaker 4: Venezuelan guys were dancing.

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Speaker 3: A rise was just in the middle of the whole

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Speaker 3: group there and they had like a little wash pit

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Speaker 3: going on, and they're all clapping and they're they're dancing

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Speaker 3: away and they're getting ready for the game, and they're there.

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Speaker 3: That's their method of getting themselves psyched up and loose.

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Speaker 4: And it's fun.

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Speaker 1: Man.

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Speaker 3: I've been around these fellas that it's really a lot

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Speaker 3: of fun. And it's a lot of what we did

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Speaker 3: with the Cubs and the Rays, et cetera. Whereas on

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Speaker 3: the other side, it's more like bringing your you know,

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Speaker 3: your briefcase and button down and make sure you you know,

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Speaker 3: your hair has come properly. That kind of It's just different.

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Speaker 3: It's different culture, that's really what it comes down to.

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Speaker 3: So to evaluate one or the other I think is wrong.

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Speaker 3: It's just the way it is culturally. And you're suggesting

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Speaker 3: they're the people of Venezuela, and these players had a

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Speaker 3: lot going on right now beyond just a baseball game,

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Speaker 3: and it impacts them and impacts their families and impacts

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Speaker 3: their moms and grandmoms. I mean, these guys go deep

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Speaker 3: with their family roots the Latin America world, and I

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Speaker 3: really appreciate that about them. And I've always felt the

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Speaker 3: strong affinity to this group because you know it's a

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Speaker 3: raised Catholic as you were in Pennsylvania and Italian Polish.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I've always used to talk to the guys

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Speaker 3: about this, my Puerto Rican brothers back in the day.

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Speaker 3: How when I meet their families, it was so familiar

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Speaker 3: to me. So there's there's a lot, there's a lot

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Speaker 3: going on there. And just to take it to another step,

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Speaker 3: I think as a kid growing up in Venezuela or

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Speaker 3: Dominican or whatever, there's not as much diverse, many diverse interests.

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Speaker 4: I mean, when you're a young and.

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Speaker 3: Growing up in those in those countries, you want to

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Speaker 3: play baseball. You want to play Major League baseball, not

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Speaker 3: just baseball, professional baseball.

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Speaker 4: Your goal is to get to that very the very top.

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Speaker 4: So it's different.

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Speaker 3: I mean a lot of kids in this country are

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Speaker 3: you don't want to grow up to be doctors, lawyers, whatever,

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Speaker 3: But kids down there, I want to grow up to

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Speaker 3: be major League baseball players.

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Speaker 4: It's just it's just the way it is.

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Speaker 3: Whether you want to agree with it or not, it's

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Speaker 3: just true. And so's it's it has a different power

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Speaker 3: about it that maybe our power regarding becoming a Major

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Speaker 3: League baseball player. Always wanted to be we did you

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Speaker 3: know whatever, But it's just different, and okay, how do

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Speaker 3: you understand it?

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Speaker 4: Go there?

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Speaker 3: Go there, Go there, and walk the streets. First time

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Speaker 3: I went to the Dominican Republic in the eighties, I

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Speaker 3: was like blown away by the haves and the have not.

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Speaker 3: So it was no middle class whatsoever. It was just

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Speaker 3: people that had dirt floors and people had a couple

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Speaker 3: bucks in the middle. There's no such thing as the

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Speaker 3: middle class. But they were the happiest people I've ever met,

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Speaker 3: and that really I walked away from that experience thinking

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Speaker 3: that also and meaning that you really cannot miss what

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Speaker 3: you've never had. So there's there's so many lessons I

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Speaker 3: learned by going down there. With the one thing it was,

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Speaker 3: I love the people. And so when you watch them

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Speaker 3: celebrate at the conclusion of a game yesterday like that,

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Speaker 3: believe me, it is sincere and it is just dripping

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Speaker 3: with passion. That's all they got right there. If they're crying,

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Speaker 3: they mean it, and there's nothing is done for show

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Speaker 3: right there. And there was a lot of time to

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Speaker 3: the recent events, I'm certain in the past couple of months,

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Speaker 3: and so again, don't be surprised at a team like

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Speaker 3: that one.

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Speaker 4: Don't be upset that America loss. They just for a brief.

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Speaker 3: Period of time they played better baseball and they pitched

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Speaker 3: really well, and they became the champs.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, there's no question.

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Speaker 1: That's a great point that baseball is the national sport

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Speaker 1: in Venezuela. You just cannot say that about baseball in

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Speaker 1: America these days.

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Speaker 2: Maybe you did one hundred years ago.

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Speaker 1: And if you're a good athlete growing up now in

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Speaker 1: the USA, you've got multiple choices right now that you

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Speaker 1: don't have a choice in Venezuela. But the pull toward

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Speaker 1: baseball is so strong it's just the natural thing to do.

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Speaker 1: It's part, as you mentioned, of every family growing up.

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Speaker 1: Let me ask the big question here, Joe. And this

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Speaker 1: is not just related to the final, in which the

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Speaker 1: USA had three hits, Race Harper had two, the rest

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Speaker 1: of the lineup was one for twenty six. It was

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Speaker 1: not just that last game. Last five games, you know,

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Speaker 1: after the US no longer saw teams like Great Britain

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Speaker 1: and Brazil walking the ballpark. They scored twenty runs in

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Speaker 1: five games, twenty runs in five games and hit two

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Speaker 1: twenty three. This is a team that lineup that they

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Speaker 1: started in the final are playing under major league contracts

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Speaker 1: worth one point five billion dollars. These are nine players

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Speaker 1: in the US lineup last night that hit two hundred

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Speaker 1: and fifty five home runs in last year's major league season.

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Speaker 1: That's more than twenty nine of the thirty teams in

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Speaker 1: Major League Baseball. They did not hit, period. I know, Joe,

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Speaker 1: you mentioned you know it's a small sample size. I

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Speaker 1: get that. I'm not dismissing it. I do think it's

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Speaker 1: the laziest excuse in the world. If I'm Team USA,

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Speaker 1: I need to do an autopsy into this.

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Speaker 2: Why does this team not hit.

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Speaker 1: In the WBC? As the manager Mark de Rosas said, Oh,

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Speaker 1: I don't know what happened.

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Speaker 2: Man.

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Speaker 1: We had these exhibition games in Arizona and we were

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Speaker 1: just crushing the ball and it just stopped.

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Speaker 4: Listen.

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Speaker 1: I don't know that there's a definitive answer here, but

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Speaker 1: I want to get your take, Jaw, any kind of

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Speaker 1: a theory that you might have on why this team

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Speaker 1: did not click even come close to it offensively?

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean, these pictures really turned it up. I mean,

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Speaker 3: and they saw some really good arms here towards the

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Speaker 3: end of this event.

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Speaker 4: Early on, probably they weren't.

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Speaker 3: When you're not faced with, like, really when it take

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Speaker 3: all kind of a competition, the games that were playing

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Speaker 3: before that didn't mean anything, and so there was a

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Speaker 3: different looseless of different attitude about it at different everything

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Speaker 3: and even now they were being pitched to was completely different.

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Speaker 4: It was just not things just that were not ramped up.

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Speaker 4: They were not turned up.

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Speaker 3: The dial was not just blazing at the highest possible level,

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Speaker 3: which it was eventually when you get to the to

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Speaker 3: these kind of games.

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Speaker 4: So they the pitching they saw.

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Speaker 3: Prior to this, where they were just absolutely lamb basting,

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Speaker 3: it was not the same pitching they saw more recently.

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Speaker 3: And that's just fact. The games the games, and you're

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Speaker 3: in the dugout all the time. You could feel this stuff.

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Speaker 3: Go to sit in a spring training game and feel

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Speaker 3: what that feels like, and then go feel sit in

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Speaker 3: that dugout during that game and see what that feels like.

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Speaker 3: And I just think normally the pitchers are going to

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Speaker 3: be a little bit ahead right now if in fact

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Speaker 3: they do turn up the dial, and they did. You know,

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Speaker 3: you're watching this stuff and you're seeing all these different

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Speaker 3: pictures different countries, And of course, I mean a lot

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Speaker 3: of these guys that pitt really well for Venezuela or

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Speaker 3: Puerto Rico, whatever, Dominica. They they're major league pitch. They

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Speaker 3: got some good stuff. Brother, so they just turned it up.

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Speaker 3: They turned it up sooner, And I don't know, maybe

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Speaker 3: from the Americans perspective, I'm not that they expected anything.

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Speaker 3: I'm not saying that they did. These are good guys

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Speaker 3: and they prep whatever. But I don't know it does

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Speaker 3: it mean a little bit more to a Venezuelan kid that,

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Speaker 3: you know, like we just talked about geopolitically, all the

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Speaker 3: things that have been occurring in their country they're representing,

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Speaker 3: and listen, though we're Venezuela.

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Speaker 4: We're proud, we are we are great, and we.

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Speaker 3: Want people to take noticees I mean as a go

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Speaker 3: beyond just the game itself. I don't know, but just

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Speaker 3: from a baseball perspective, when pitchers turn it up the

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Speaker 3: dial and it's this early in the year and they

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Speaker 3: turn it up that high, I'm just saying, I do

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Speaker 3: believe it'd be a different outcome later in the year

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Speaker 3: when these guys, these these hitters had more opportunity to

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Speaker 3: really get battle tested against better stuff during the course

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Speaker 3: of the year. It's just like get out of bed

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Speaker 3: at eight o'clock in the morning and all of a

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Speaker 3: sudden you got to just start swinging away. It's not

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Speaker 3: it's not the same. So I think the way this

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Speaker 3: this this tournament set up, it's it's it's ripe for

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Speaker 3: this kind of an upset. Whereas if it happened later

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Speaker 3: in you and guys were maybe more fully engaged and

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Speaker 3: had everything together with their swings and they head their

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Speaker 3: feel down, it might have turned out a little bit differently.

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Speaker 4: We'll never know that.

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Speaker 3: But I just think it's the fact that the pitching

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Speaker 3: right now just turned it up and they just they

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Speaker 3: just beat our guys who just were not quite in

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Speaker 3: midseason form yet.

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Speaker 1: Well, you're right about the pitching, I mean, especially we

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Speaker 1: got here to the semi finals. In the final, the

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Speaker 1: three last games here, the scores were four to two,

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Speaker 1: two to one, and three to two. I mean, small,

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Speaker 1: just thrillers of games one after the other because of it,

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Speaker 1: but I wanted to go through one at bat Joe,

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Speaker 1: which sort of typifies, you know, the US not hitting.

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Speaker 1: It's the sixth inning and the US is down two

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Speaker 1: to nothing, and there's two outs.

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Speaker 2: Bryce Harper gets a base hit.

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Speaker 1: Aaron Judge comes to the plate as the tying run

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Speaker 1: of the game against Jose Buteaux of the Mets, but

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Speaker 1: to falls behind two and oh. He's behind two and

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Speaker 1: oh to Aaron Judge in a two run game. Sal

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Speaker 1: Perez calls time out, runs out to the mound. Labor

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Speaker 1: Torres comes in from second base. The longest male meeting

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Speaker 1: you've ever seen, because the umpires just don't allow those

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Speaker 1: in the major leagues to go that long the way

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Speaker 1: they do now with the emphasis on the pitch. Timer

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Speaker 1: and Perez goes back there to the plate. Buteau's next

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Speaker 1: pitch is a slider that is center cut. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you couldn't put it on a tee. Aaron Judge takes

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Speaker 1: it for strike one. Next pitch another slider out of

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Speaker 1: the zone. Easy take. It's three to one. The next

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Speaker 1: pitch is a center cut fastball, sinker middle middle. Aaron

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Speaker 1: Judge takes it three to two. Next pitch is a

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Speaker 1: slider center cut. Again, the third center cut pitch all mistakes.

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Speaker 1: He's not trying to throw the ball in the middle

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Speaker 1: of the plate to and Judge. It turns out. Perez

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Speaker 1: went out there and said, hey, listen, if we walk them,

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Speaker 1: we walk them. But we can't let this guy beat us.

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Speaker 1: And he grounds out the third base. I really caught

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Speaker 1: my attention. I'm not sure what he's thinking there. I

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Speaker 1: checked the numbers here, Aaron judge actually in two zero

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Speaker 1: counts on pitches that are in the strike zone, takes

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Speaker 1: more than he swings, which I hadn't realized until I

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Speaker 1: looked that up. And then the three to one fastball.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he must have been I don't know how

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Speaker 1: you do this, been sitting on a slider three and

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Speaker 1: one because he let a center cut fastball pass by

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Speaker 1: down two, three to one.

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Speaker 2: And you know, again maybe we can too give the

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Speaker 2: deal out of this, Joe.

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Speaker 1: But I know you talked about the drum dance and

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Speaker 1: chance before the game there. That is, you know, a

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Speaker 1: very popular in Latin America. The tambod I say call it.

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Speaker 1: It's just this traditional dance that they have based on

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Speaker 1: f ro Venezuelan roots, and it's kind of as Omar

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Speaker 1: Lopez told me, that's the way they play baseball, attack, attack,

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Speaker 1: whereas to me, the US style is walking home run.

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Speaker 1: You know, bring them the strike zone. You know, the

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Speaker 1: kind of passive aggressiveness when you get your pitch hit it.

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Speaker 1: In this case he didn't, but more likely to take

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Speaker 1: a pitch than the Latin American guys when it comes

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Speaker 1: to strikes in the zone. I just thought that won

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Speaker 1: at bat and listen, the game didn't turn on one

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Speaker 1: at BT, but the fact that he didn't pull the

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Speaker 1: trigger on two cookies in hitters counts.

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Speaker 2: I just I shook my head. I was really surprised.

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Speaker 4: You make me think.

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Speaker 3: About Jimmy Edmonds and Garrett Anderson at times back in

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Speaker 3: the day, when they get ahead an account like that,

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Speaker 3: they would just sometimes they would just do the a

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Speaker 3: statue of liberty, just stand there because they thought the

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Speaker 3: pitch would never throw them a strike right there, or

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Speaker 3: they didn't didn't want to end up chasing a shrike

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Speaker 3: ball kind of a situation. So I don't know, I mean,

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Speaker 3: from his perspective, maybe he just thought there's no way

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Speaker 3: they're going to throw me a really good strike I

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Speaker 3: get or maybe I get too big, I get too

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Speaker 3: eager right here. That would be a conversation to have

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Speaker 3: with him specifically, But I've had guys do that, and

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Speaker 3: it was frustrating exactly that, and it would ask Jimmy

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Speaker 3: and Ga. I mean they would just sometimes just literally

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Speaker 3: actually say that did not expect them to throw a

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Speaker 3: strike right there. I thought they would not come after

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Speaker 3: me in that moment, And I would almost bet to

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Speaker 3: a certain extent, maybe Judge expects that kind of.

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Speaker 4: Treatment at times.

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Speaker 3: But you're right, I mean the two oh count it

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Speaker 3: was a breaking ball though, you said one of them

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Speaker 3: breaking ball.

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Speaker 4: What was his fastball?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the first one was a third straight slider, and

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Speaker 1: then the three to one fastball was the only fastball

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Speaker 1: he saw in the sequence.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it could be like just guessing a little bit,

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Speaker 3: or just like I'm saying, not expecting a pitch to

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Speaker 3: be thrown for a strike and or just willing to

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Speaker 3: accept as walk and moving along.

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Speaker 4: I mean, who knows. I mean, there's so many different things.

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Speaker 3: And then I did I remember the ground ball the

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Speaker 3: third base kind of a rollover ground ball look like

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Speaker 3: a decent pitch too. Again, it's just it's personally these

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Speaker 3: the way these guys approach things and how they see

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Speaker 3: things and how they've been you know, they probably discussed

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Speaker 3: things with either their hitting coach or another veterans somebody

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Speaker 3: that they've spoken to in the past about situational hitting

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Speaker 3: and what to look for. There's so much stuff going

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Speaker 3: on there, so I mean, it actually be a good conversation.

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Speaker 3: I don't know that you'd ever be able to have

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Speaker 3: that with Aaron, but there's definitely probably a method to

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Speaker 3: its madness. It's worked pretty well to this point. But

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Speaker 3: in a situation like that, you would think they're gonna

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Speaker 3: jump over a perceived cookie. But these guys, it's their method,

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Speaker 3: it's their way.

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Speaker 4: Edmnd Martinez would never swing it the first pitch.

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Speaker 3: You just throw the strike, one strike, one strike, one,

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Speaker 3: but heads up it was the seventh inning and you

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Speaker 3: wanted to do the same thing with the runner in

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Speaker 3: scoring position. They all have their methods and so it

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Speaker 3: could be frustrating to watch sometimes, but it's kind of

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Speaker 3: part of their process and they stay with it.

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Speaker 1: Really interesting stuff. Hey, we're gonna take a quick break.

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Speaker 1: When we get back, I want to talk to Joe

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Speaker 1: about managing these WBC teams. Man, it is a difficult,

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Speaker 1: difficult job, and there's a lot of things that you

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Speaker 1: don't know about it that you should know about it.

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Speaker 1: And we'll get it to that right after this on

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Speaker 1: the Book of Joe.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to the Book of Joe. This is our

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Speaker 2: WBC wrap up edition.

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Speaker 1: It just caused so much attention and excitement around the

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Speaker 1: baseball world. The ratings were terrific for the WBC, it's

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Speaker 1: really grown every year. We had the greatest collection of

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Speaker 1: talent we've ever seen. The WBC sign up for the US,

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Speaker 1: it was really important early on to get Aaron Judge

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Speaker 1: and Paul Skins on board. And when guys like that

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Speaker 1: sign up, you're gonna get a lot of other stars

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Speaker 1: to come.

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Speaker 2: So every team was just loaded with stars. It was

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Speaker 2: a great event.

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Speaker 1: And part of the problem for managers, Joe as you

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Speaker 1: know this, because you've had teams leave. Our guys leave

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Speaker 1: camp to go play in this exhibition, if you will.

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Speaker 1: In March, when you try to get ready for a

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Speaker 1: season and you're not really generally at full tilt, you know,

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Speaker 1: how do you handle their ramp up? And listen, these

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Speaker 1: guys are ramped up. I mean we saw that the energy,

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Speaker 1: the emotions in the ballpark. Just about every pitcher out there.

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Speaker 1: Nolan McLain, young guy throwing harder than he's ever thrown

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Speaker 1: in his life. Pitching in the Final at WBC Earlier,

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Speaker 1: Yamamoto from the Dodgers pitching for Team Japan, throwing as

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Speaker 1: hard as he did March, as he did last year

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Speaker 1: in the World Series. So with that mind, teams are

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Speaker 1: skittish about this. And quick story for you that you know.

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Speaker 1: Omar Lopez, the Venezuelan manager, was up with the staff

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Speaker 1: until three o'clock in the morning game planning against McLain

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Speaker 1: and the USA pitching staff goes to bed, wakes up.

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Speaker 2: Eight thirty has flown.

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Speaker 1: His phone is blowing up from Major League executives telling

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Speaker 1: him which guys he can use and which guys he

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Speaker 1: can't use. The Tigers, for instance, they said, and Manuel DeJesus,

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Speaker 1: one of their left handers who's pitching for his eighth organization,

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Speaker 1: twenty nine years old, he pitched the last couple of

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Speaker 1: years in Korea, pitched on Saturday through forty one pitch

437
00:21:04,478 --> 00:21:06,838
Speaker 1: and the Tiger said you can't use him today. Imagine

438
00:21:06,838 --> 00:21:09,758
Speaker 1: you're a kid from Venezuela playing for the World Baseball Championship.

439
00:21:09,998 --> 00:21:12,798
Speaker 1: You're basically a journeyman guy, and the club is said,

440
00:21:12,838 --> 00:21:15,678
Speaker 1: you can't pitch because you need more rest after throwing

441
00:21:15,838 --> 00:21:18,278
Speaker 1: x amount of pitches based on whatever algorithm they have

442
00:21:18,438 --> 00:21:21,878
Speaker 1: that the rest of us don't. And they the Cubs

443
00:21:21,918 --> 00:21:25,278
Speaker 1: called and they said, our closer Daniel Palencia pitched yesterday.

444
00:21:25,478 --> 00:21:29,598
Speaker 1: You can't use him today. And Balmar Lopez, wait a second.

445
00:21:30,518 --> 00:21:32,318
Speaker 1: You know this kid wants to pitch. He told me

446
00:21:32,438 --> 00:21:35,878
Speaker 1: last night. He feels good, he wants to pitch. And

447
00:21:35,958 --> 00:21:38,398
Speaker 1: the Cubs then said, well, what are the other guys

448
00:21:38,438 --> 00:21:42,478
Speaker 1: doing who pitched yesterday, and sly Omar said, well, we've

449
00:21:42,478 --> 00:21:45,078
Speaker 1: got clearance for these guys to pitch. Well, the Cubs

450
00:21:45,278 --> 00:21:48,078
Speaker 1: the Mariners did say that Edward Bizardo, who pitched the

451
00:21:48,118 --> 00:21:50,678
Speaker 1: day before, was good, but had had to be limited

452
00:21:50,718 --> 00:21:52,798
Speaker 1: to one inning, one clean inning, no up and down,

453
00:21:53,438 --> 00:21:56,318
Speaker 1: no more than three outs, so he wasn't totally lying.

454
00:21:56,638 --> 00:21:59,078
Speaker 1: And then the Cubs said, okay, well we'll let We'll

455
00:21:59,158 --> 00:22:02,038
Speaker 1: let him pitch, but only only in the case where

456
00:22:02,038 --> 00:22:03,918
Speaker 1: you just laid out here, if you have a chain

457
00:22:03,998 --> 00:22:06,798
Speaker 1: has to win the WBC, So only the ninth inning,

458
00:22:07,158 --> 00:22:10,638
Speaker 1: and only in a safe situation can Polentia pitch. And

459
00:22:10,678 --> 00:22:14,278
Speaker 1: that turned out to be huge because that's exactly what happened.

460
00:22:14,718 --> 00:22:17,398
Speaker 1: And then the other side, the USA lost this game,

461
00:22:18,278 --> 00:22:21,478
Speaker 1: very close game, obviously without using their best reliever.

462
00:22:21,838 --> 00:22:24,518
Speaker 2: And Mason Miller, Now, why is that?

463
00:22:24,678 --> 00:22:27,798
Speaker 1: Well, the padres said, Mason Miller, even after the day off,

464
00:22:28,678 --> 00:22:30,998
Speaker 1: cannot pitch. First of all, you can't pitch in the

465
00:22:31,038 --> 00:22:32,558
Speaker 1: middle of an inning. You can't drop him in the

466
00:22:32,558 --> 00:22:34,798
Speaker 1: middle of inning. You can't have him throw more than

467
00:22:34,798 --> 00:22:36,998
Speaker 1: twenty five pitches. And the only way you can use

468
00:22:37,078 --> 00:22:38,918
Speaker 1: him is if you have a lead. You cannot use

469
00:22:38,958 --> 00:22:41,358
Speaker 1: him in a tie game. So Mark de Rosa couldn't

470
00:22:41,358 --> 00:22:43,518
Speaker 1: bring his best reliever into the game in a tie game,

471
00:22:43,798 --> 00:22:46,598
Speaker 1: and he lost without getting to Mason Miller. Now he

472
00:22:46,638 --> 00:22:49,718
Speaker 1: had Garrett Whitlock on the mound, who's red Sox said

473
00:22:49,718 --> 00:22:52,718
Speaker 1: you can use him in a tie game, and he

474
00:22:52,798 --> 00:22:54,598
Speaker 1: just was not sharp at all, and he had been

475
00:22:54,598 --> 00:22:57,358
Speaker 1: sharp with the entire tournament his first couple of addings.

476
00:22:57,438 --> 00:23:00,198
Speaker 1: So a lot of these things going on, but behind

477
00:23:00,238 --> 00:23:02,238
Speaker 1: the scenes, especially with pitching.

478
00:23:03,198 --> 00:23:05,078
Speaker 2: And I'm telling you, yeah, yeah, you know, I talked to.

479
00:23:05,038 --> 00:23:07,478
Speaker 1: A lot of these managers, Joe, and you now hard

480
00:23:07,558 --> 00:23:11,278
Speaker 1: the job as anyway in running a staff. Now you're

481
00:23:11,278 --> 00:23:15,278
Speaker 1: trying to please thirty different organizations with different agendas about

482
00:23:15,278 --> 00:23:16,158
Speaker 1: what to do with guys.

483
00:23:16,398 --> 00:23:17,238
Speaker 2: So when you sit down.

484
00:23:17,318 --> 00:23:19,878
Speaker 1: You watch a game in the WBC, man be careful

485
00:23:19,918 --> 00:23:22,558
Speaker 1: about what you're second guessing because there's probably things behind

486
00:23:22,558 --> 00:23:23,758
Speaker 1: it you have no idea about.

487
00:23:24,358 --> 00:23:26,358
Speaker 3: And that bleeds over to the regular season, because what

488
00:23:26,398 --> 00:23:28,038
Speaker 3: you just described happens every day.

489
00:23:28,358 --> 00:23:29,358
Speaker 4: It happens every day.

490
00:23:29,838 --> 00:23:32,478
Speaker 3: It's just the difference is that it's with your team

491
00:23:32,598 --> 00:23:36,678
Speaker 3: and your bullpen in this situation, and before the game

492
00:23:36,718 --> 00:23:39,878
Speaker 3: you're basically told who you can and cannot use. And

493
00:23:39,878 --> 00:23:41,438
Speaker 3: then even to the point where a lot of times

494
00:23:41,478 --> 00:23:44,758
Speaker 3: they'll they'll try to choreograph it before the game regarding

495
00:23:44,798 --> 00:23:46,798
Speaker 3: you want to use different guys. Now, I would imagine

496
00:23:46,798 --> 00:23:50,118
Speaker 3: that if you've done it for a while, I mean manage,

497
00:23:50,318 --> 00:23:54,278
Speaker 3: you should easily almost like match up the matchups that

498
00:23:54,358 --> 00:23:56,518
Speaker 3: your front office wants to create for you. The difference

499
00:23:56,518 --> 00:23:59,158
Speaker 3: would be that before the game begins, they'll come down

500
00:23:59,198 --> 00:24:01,558
Speaker 3: to your office and tell you cannot pitch that night,

501
00:24:01,598 --> 00:24:05,078
Speaker 3: even though the pitchers had been playing for years. What

502
00:24:05,158 --> 00:24:07,598
Speaker 3: happens is the relief pitchers get out, they go through

503
00:24:07,598 --> 00:24:10,078
Speaker 3: the routine, they're out there with the bullpen coach, and

504
00:24:10,078 --> 00:24:11,958
Speaker 3: they're out there and they start playing catch, and then

505
00:24:11,998 --> 00:24:14,398
Speaker 3: the pitching coach wanders by and they start talking about,

506
00:24:14,438 --> 00:24:16,638
Speaker 3: you know, for tonight, how do you feel, And of

507
00:24:16,638 --> 00:24:18,558
Speaker 3: course you look at the numbers, how many pitches they've

508
00:24:18,558 --> 00:24:20,718
Speaker 3: thrown over the last couple of days, how manys they've pitched,

509
00:24:21,238 --> 00:24:24,358
Speaker 3: et cetera, et cetera, and then from that you develop

510
00:24:24,598 --> 00:24:27,358
Speaker 3: a plan for that night based on is this guy.

511
00:24:27,238 --> 00:24:27,998
Speaker 4: Available or not?

512
00:24:28,238 --> 00:24:31,918
Speaker 3: And that was always done via the bullpen slash pitching

513
00:24:31,918 --> 00:24:34,918
Speaker 3: coach or both these guys in conjunction with the pitcher himself.

514
00:24:35,198 --> 00:24:36,838
Speaker 3: And then they come to the manager and they say

515
00:24:36,838 --> 00:24:38,438
Speaker 3: so and so is uper He's down for tonight.

516
00:24:38,598 --> 00:24:39,678
Speaker 4: Okay, he's a.

517
00:24:39,638 --> 00:24:42,158
Speaker 3: Little stiff, he needs an extra day, or you would

518
00:24:42,158 --> 00:24:45,118
Speaker 3: hear something like if you get him up, you got

519
00:24:45,158 --> 00:24:46,398
Speaker 3: to get him in. But if you get him up

520
00:24:46,398 --> 00:24:47,998
Speaker 3: and don't put him in, he can't get him up again.

521
00:24:48,038 --> 00:24:49,958
Speaker 3: He's down for the day. You hear that, that was

522
00:24:49,998 --> 00:24:52,478
Speaker 3: a different thoughts you would hear from the pitching coach,

523
00:24:52,838 --> 00:24:55,038
Speaker 3: bullpen coach and the pitcher. So then you, as a

524
00:24:55,078 --> 00:24:58,238
Speaker 3: manager'd be able to create your game plan for the day.

525
00:24:58,318 --> 00:24:59,718
Speaker 4: I've been doing it for years.

526
00:24:59,758 --> 00:25:01,558
Speaker 3: I was doing it for years in the minor leagues

527
00:25:01,558 --> 00:25:04,678
Speaker 3: when nobody ever told you anything about really, how many

528
00:25:04,678 --> 00:25:06,478
Speaker 3: pitches you could throw anybody, or how often you can

529
00:25:06,558 --> 00:25:07,998
Speaker 3: use a relief pitcher. You used to do that on

530
00:25:07,998 --> 00:25:09,798
Speaker 3: your own. I used to keep my own charts and

531
00:25:09,878 --> 00:25:12,638
Speaker 3: add my own little methods of member of pitches, throwner

532
00:25:12,718 --> 00:25:15,598
Speaker 3: of inningstone, number of days in a row, throne. I've

533
00:25:15,598 --> 00:25:19,518
Speaker 3: always had my own little cocktail for that, as well

534
00:25:19,558 --> 00:25:22,798
Speaker 3: as you know, the conversation with the player. Sometimes I

535
00:25:22,798 --> 00:25:24,198
Speaker 3: would just go up to a guy and say, listen,

536
00:25:24,238 --> 00:25:26,798
Speaker 3: it's a sneaker's day. Brother, don't even talk, don't even try,

537
00:25:26,878 --> 00:25:29,558
Speaker 3: you're out put your sneakers on that set. And other

538
00:25:29,678 --> 00:25:31,718
Speaker 3: days I could be convinced it's based on the numbers

539
00:25:31,718 --> 00:25:35,398
Speaker 3: are vague. But what happens now is that they come

540
00:25:35,438 --> 00:25:37,598
Speaker 3: downstairs and I'm telling you it's it's true, and it's

541
00:25:37,718 --> 00:25:40,918
Speaker 3: well you just described there's exactly what happens, only that

542
00:25:41,038 --> 00:25:44,798
Speaker 3: this was like a variety of multiple organizations checking in,

543
00:25:44,798 --> 00:25:47,878
Speaker 3: whereas about just one organization checking in about a variety

544
00:25:47,878 --> 00:25:51,038
Speaker 3: of different pictures on your staff. So yes, it's very

545
00:25:51,038 --> 00:25:54,198
Speaker 3: difficult for managers. But the way it's set up right now,

546
00:25:54,318 --> 00:25:56,318
Speaker 3: it's part of the landscape. It's it's the furniture in

547
00:25:56,358 --> 00:25:57,798
Speaker 3: the living room and that's how it's going to work.

548
00:25:57,798 --> 00:26:02,478
Speaker 3: And the managers know that some guys probably look for it.

549
00:26:02,478 --> 00:26:04,518
Speaker 3: They want the guidance a little bit more. There's maybe

550
00:26:04,558 --> 00:26:07,198
Speaker 3: not so much, but regardless, that's just the way it is.

551
00:26:07,278 --> 00:26:09,958
Speaker 3: It's just like Bruce Hornsby said, so what you just

552
00:26:09,998 --> 00:26:15,318
Speaker 3: described there is absolutely believable, and you're right. So when

553
00:26:15,318 --> 00:26:19,198
Speaker 3: it comes down to second guessing, folks understand that sometimes

554
00:26:19,318 --> 00:26:21,638
Speaker 3: hands are tied, or most of the times they are.

555
00:26:22,438 --> 00:26:25,358
Speaker 3: And when it comes down to just maybe going I

556
00:26:25,358 --> 00:26:28,678
Speaker 3: don't want to say offscript because it doesn't happen very often,

557
00:26:28,718 --> 00:26:31,558
Speaker 3: but to go and I don't even want to use

558
00:26:31,598 --> 00:26:33,158
Speaker 3: the word rogue, but just to do what you think

559
00:26:33,238 --> 00:26:35,438
Speaker 3: is the right thing to do. It better work because

560
00:26:35,438 --> 00:26:37,638
Speaker 3: if it doesn't work, sometimes you're going to have a

561
00:26:37,758 --> 00:26:39,278
Speaker 3: long conversation after the game.

562
00:26:39,638 --> 00:26:41,318
Speaker 1: The other thing I wanted to get to Joe is

563
00:26:41,358 --> 00:26:42,878
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if you saw the end of the

564
00:26:42,998 --> 00:26:44,038
Speaker 1: US Dominican game.

565
00:26:44,118 --> 00:26:44,918
Speaker 2: It was a great game.

566
00:26:44,958 --> 00:26:47,798
Speaker 1: It was tense throughout one up being a two to

567
00:26:47,838 --> 00:26:51,518
Speaker 1: one final, and Miller was on the mound. Mason Miller

568
00:26:51,558 --> 00:26:54,078
Speaker 1: is on the mound, and the tying run actually got

569
00:26:54,078 --> 00:26:56,918
Speaker 1: to third base with Heroldo Perdomo in the batter's box,

570
00:26:56,918 --> 00:26:59,198
Speaker 1: who's one of the tougher guys to strike out in baseball,

571
00:26:59,598 --> 00:27:02,478
Speaker 1: had an epic at bat against Mason Miller.

572
00:27:02,518 --> 00:27:03,918
Speaker 2: I mean, just Mason Miller.

573
00:27:04,118 --> 00:27:06,038
Speaker 1: I don't know how anybody gets a hit off this guy,

574
00:27:06,078 --> 00:27:08,758
Speaker 1: and very actually very few people, do you know. He

575
00:27:09,878 --> 00:27:12,958
Speaker 1: throws about fifty to fifty percentage of sliders and fastballs,

576
00:27:12,958 --> 00:27:15,478
Speaker 1: and the fastballs well over one hundred and the slider

577
00:27:15,678 --> 00:27:18,278
Speaker 1: is just off the table. Most of his strikeouts come

578
00:27:18,318 --> 00:27:21,878
Speaker 1: on the slider, and Prodomo is just spoiling pitches. He's

579
00:27:21,998 --> 00:27:24,438
Speaker 1: spitting on the spoiling pitches, just hanging in there. Eight

580
00:27:24,558 --> 00:27:26,878
Speaker 1: nine pitches and here comes the last pitch of three

581
00:27:26,878 --> 00:27:30,118
Speaker 1: to two curveball which he takes. It's a slider, which

582
00:27:30,158 --> 00:27:34,358
Speaker 1: he seemed to recognize, and it's well below the strike zone.

583
00:27:34,478 --> 00:27:37,118
Speaker 2: It is not a borderline pitch. It is well below

584
00:27:37,198 --> 00:27:37,718
Speaker 2: the zone.

585
00:27:38,198 --> 00:27:40,358
Speaker 1: Will Smith behind the plate does a nice job of

586
00:27:40,718 --> 00:27:43,038
Speaker 1: trying to catch it as early as he can, reaching

587
00:27:43,118 --> 00:27:46,198
Speaker 1: out before it drops any further. And then the hand

588
00:27:46,238 --> 00:27:48,838
Speaker 1: moves up actually all the way to the top of

589
00:27:48,878 --> 00:27:51,318
Speaker 1: the strike zone, almost certainly above the midway point of

590
00:27:51,358 --> 00:27:53,358
Speaker 1: the strike zone. I'm not going to give him credit

591
00:27:53,438 --> 00:27:56,278
Speaker 1: for presenting or framing that pitch other than reaching out

592
00:27:56,318 --> 00:27:59,158
Speaker 1: before it drops so far, But Corey Blazer's the home

593
00:27:59,158 --> 00:28:02,758
Speaker 1: plate umpire punched him out, called it strike three. Oh

594
00:28:02,798 --> 00:28:06,358
Speaker 1: my goodness, I felt so bad for Perdomo, for a

595
00:28:06,438 --> 00:28:09,158
Speaker 1: hitter to work that hard against such a great pitcher

596
00:28:09,198 --> 00:28:11,918
Speaker 1: in that bat and have the umpire decide not just

597
00:28:11,998 --> 00:28:15,918
Speaker 1: the bat but the game. It just made me and

598
00:28:15,918 --> 00:28:20,158
Speaker 1: I'm sure many other people, Joe say, thank goodness ABS

599
00:28:20,238 --> 00:28:20,758
Speaker 1: is coming.

600
00:28:20,918 --> 00:28:23,758
Speaker 2: The challenge system. It was not used in the WBC.

601
00:28:24,878 --> 00:28:26,798
Speaker 1: You're going to see it starting next week in Major

602
00:28:26,878 --> 00:28:29,318
Speaker 1: League Baseball once we get going here in the regular

603
00:28:29,318 --> 00:28:32,998
Speaker 1: season opening day, so that we will not have games

604
00:28:33,438 --> 00:28:37,718
Speaker 1: and where people are talking about the umpire blowing a

605
00:28:37,878 --> 00:28:40,998
Speaker 1: call rather than the players deciding a game. If you

606
00:28:41,038 --> 00:28:43,678
Speaker 1: were ever on the fence about ABS, I'm not sure

607
00:28:43,678 --> 00:28:47,398
Speaker 1: why you ever would be. Just look at that pitch,

608
00:28:47,678 --> 00:28:50,558
Speaker 1: see how that game ended, and you tell me that

609
00:28:50,638 --> 00:28:51,918
Speaker 1: ABS is not a good thing.

610
00:28:52,518 --> 00:28:55,438
Speaker 3: Well, that's if in fact the team has a challenge

611
00:28:55,478 --> 00:29:00,718
Speaker 3: left correct, that is true, that could be possibly right one,

612
00:29:01,118 --> 00:29:03,478
Speaker 3: and yeah, then you're out of luck. That's what's going

613
00:29:03,518 --> 00:29:05,998
Speaker 3: to start speaking too, like you eventually turning it over

614
00:29:06,118 --> 00:29:09,278
Speaker 3: entirely to the ABA system and the umpire just downparting

615
00:29:09,358 --> 00:29:12,358
Speaker 3: the game in a sense. Foul balls, whatever, check swings

616
00:29:12,398 --> 00:29:15,078
Speaker 3: and those kind of thing. Yeah, I mean I saw

617
00:29:15,118 --> 00:29:17,518
Speaker 3: the pitch that he did do a nice job of

618
00:29:17,598 --> 00:29:18,718
Speaker 3: receiving the pitch.

619
00:29:19,598 --> 00:29:20,638
Speaker 4: It is frustrating.

620
00:29:21,118 --> 00:29:23,318
Speaker 3: And again when you when it's an ending kind of that,

621
00:29:23,518 --> 00:29:25,438
Speaker 3: it's like, that's like an end of the season call

622
00:29:25,518 --> 00:29:28,638
Speaker 3: right there, although it at the end of the WBC call,

623
00:29:29,038 --> 00:29:32,598
Speaker 3: It's tough. It's really tough. I mean, for years we

624
00:29:32,598 --> 00:29:35,918
Speaker 3: were able to complain about it after the game, you know,

625
00:29:35,918 --> 00:29:38,718
Speaker 3: you would talk among one another and reassure one another

626
00:29:38,798 --> 00:29:40,638
Speaker 3: that it was a ball, it was a bad call,

627
00:29:40,678 --> 00:29:43,198
Speaker 3: et cetera, et cetera. But you always turned the page.

628
00:29:43,478 --> 00:29:45,518
Speaker 3: You just had to turn the page. I had no

629
00:29:45,718 --> 00:29:49,398
Speaker 3: choice but to turn the page. And who knows how

630
00:29:49,398 --> 00:29:52,198
Speaker 3: many times that happened. I remember one game we lost

631
00:29:52,238 --> 00:29:53,598
Speaker 3: in Texas.

632
00:29:53,878 --> 00:29:54,958
Speaker 4: I think we've talked about this.

633
00:29:55,038 --> 00:29:58,118
Speaker 3: Joe Nathan's at whatever three hundred save I think it

634
00:29:58,158 --> 00:30:00,998
Speaker 3: might have been to pitch this Zobras was so far

635
00:30:01,158 --> 00:30:05,198
Speaker 3: outside and down on the ground. I even went up

636
00:30:05,198 --> 00:30:06,438
Speaker 3: to the second We've talked about it some one of

637
00:30:06,438 --> 00:30:08,238
Speaker 3: the second based on party says you got to change that.

638
00:30:08,918 --> 00:30:11,118
Speaker 3: It was like, was that bad? It was that it

639
00:30:11,198 --> 00:30:14,118
Speaker 3: was that bad. That was the last pitch of the game.

640
00:30:14,518 --> 00:30:17,278
Speaker 3: So for years we've put up with this kind of stuff.

641
00:30:18,518 --> 00:30:21,558
Speaker 3: I guess again, with the way the world works right now,

642
00:30:21,558 --> 00:30:23,478
Speaker 3: we have to be perfect about everything. And I'm not

643
00:30:23,678 --> 00:30:25,758
Speaker 3: I'm not disputing what you just said because it is

644
00:30:25,758 --> 00:30:28,918
Speaker 3: available to us now. But for years we've gone through

645
00:30:28,958 --> 00:30:31,958
Speaker 3: those kind of things or moments where it has not

646
00:30:32,078 --> 00:30:35,918
Speaker 3: been spoken about nearly enough or or often enough, or

647
00:30:35,998 --> 00:30:39,038
Speaker 3: pointed out like you just did, because we just there

648
00:30:39,078 --> 00:30:40,998
Speaker 3: was no recourse. There was no recourse to it. So

649
00:30:41,558 --> 00:30:43,758
Speaker 3: I've seen it. It was a tough one, it was

650
00:30:43,758 --> 00:30:47,358
Speaker 3: a close pitch, it was down. However, for years we've

651
00:30:47,438 --> 00:30:48,838
Speaker 3: just been able to turn the page.

652
00:30:49,478 --> 00:30:51,998
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I give credit to the Jamaican team because

653
00:30:52,038 --> 00:30:55,878
Speaker 1: that's exactly what their position was after the game. They

654
00:30:55,918 --> 00:30:58,798
Speaker 1: were I thought, very classy about it. In this case,

655
00:30:58,798 --> 00:31:00,598
Speaker 1: there were no more pages to turn. You're out of

656
00:31:00,638 --> 00:31:03,878
Speaker 1: the tournament, right right right. I thought there was respond

657
00:31:04,078 --> 00:31:07,558
Speaker 1: to it was terrific. You know, as you know, Joe,

658
00:31:07,598 --> 00:31:09,918
Speaker 1: a lot of times you will say, you know, it

659
00:31:09,958 --> 00:31:11,838
Speaker 1: really is not one pitch. Don't put yourself in that

660
00:31:11,878 --> 00:31:15,278
Speaker 1: position where you can lose, you know, on the flip

661
00:31:15,318 --> 00:31:17,478
Speaker 1: of a call or a bounce of a ball. But

662
00:31:17,918 --> 00:31:20,558
Speaker 1: it did happen. But again, very impressive with the way

663
00:31:20,598 --> 00:31:23,038
Speaker 1: they handled it. And Joe, we've got to talk about

664
00:31:23,078 --> 00:31:26,398
Speaker 1: Team Italy. They almost shocked the world. They made a

665
00:31:26,478 --> 00:31:29,758
Speaker 1: run to the semifinals here and it was just really

666
00:31:29,838 --> 00:31:34,158
Speaker 1: impressive watching that team play. Vinnie Passedpentino. Oh my goodness,

667
00:31:35,038 --> 00:31:38,158
Speaker 1: he's the captain of the team. He's the heart and soul.

668
00:31:38,278 --> 00:31:41,398
Speaker 1: Ned Coletti, the general manager, been around baseball for more

669
00:31:41,438 --> 00:31:43,638
Speaker 1: than forty years, told me he's one of the greatest

670
00:31:43,718 --> 00:31:45,358
Speaker 1: leaders that he has ever been around.

671
00:31:45,758 --> 00:31:46,318
Speaker 2: This is the team.

672
00:31:46,358 --> 00:31:48,718
Speaker 1: Obviously, he saw it a lot, the videos of them

673
00:31:48,838 --> 00:31:51,958
Speaker 1: celebrating home runs with shots of espresso in the dugout.

674
00:31:52,158 --> 00:31:54,158
Speaker 1: Then he pretty much runs that the kiss on the

675
00:31:54,238 --> 00:31:58,518
Speaker 1: cheeks on the home runs. He hands out bottles of wine,

676
00:31:58,958 --> 00:32:01,078
Speaker 1: really good bottles of wine, by the way, Joe, I mean,

677
00:32:01,118 --> 00:32:02,798
Speaker 1: we're talking about like one hundred and forty hundred and

678
00:32:02,798 --> 00:32:05,878
Speaker 1: fifty bucks of wine to give to the pitcher and

679
00:32:05,878 --> 00:32:08,238
Speaker 1: the player of the game. And they're not always necessarily

680
00:32:08,638 --> 00:32:11,478
Speaker 1: you know, the best necessarily the most important or a

681
00:32:11,558 --> 00:32:14,478
Speaker 1: key contributor passing out those bottles of wine.

682
00:32:14,278 --> 00:32:14,918
Speaker 2: After the game.

683
00:32:15,878 --> 00:32:19,758
Speaker 1: When they've traveled from Arizona to Houston and Houston to Miami.

684
00:32:20,558 --> 00:32:23,838
Speaker 1: They cranked the music and they were all singing. Everybody

685
00:32:23,838 --> 00:32:27,838
Speaker 1: on the plane, entire plane, singing along to Andrea Bocelli

686
00:32:28,278 --> 00:32:31,318
Speaker 1: or Frank Sinatra. They slipped in a little Billy Joel

687
00:32:31,358 --> 00:32:35,598
Speaker 1: as well. So just congratulations to the Team Italy. You know,

688
00:32:36,278 --> 00:32:38,838
Speaker 1: as you know, Joe, there's only like one hundred thousand

689
00:32:38,918 --> 00:32:42,838
Speaker 1: maybe not even people who play baseball in the entire country.

690
00:32:42,878 --> 00:32:45,038
Speaker 1: They do have a professional league there, but you know,

691
00:32:45,078 --> 00:32:49,198
Speaker 1: it's it's all soccer. But people were actually following baseball.

692
00:32:49,758 --> 00:32:51,798
Speaker 1: They got great ratings for the semi final there.

693
00:32:51,798 --> 00:32:52,438
Speaker 2: Over in Italy.

694
00:32:52,518 --> 00:32:56,118
Speaker 1: The sports pages there devoted page one stories to baseball,

695
00:32:56,158 --> 00:32:59,678
Speaker 1: which literally had never happened before they became a thing,

696
00:32:59,878 --> 00:33:03,798
Speaker 1: which you hope maybe there's kids now in Italy who think,

697
00:33:04,278 --> 00:33:06,158
Speaker 1: you know what that looks like a pretty cool game.

698
00:33:06,438 --> 00:33:08,518
Speaker 1: Maybe I'll pick up a glove, you'll pick up a bat,

699
00:33:08,638 --> 00:33:13,118
Speaker 1: see what this game is like. So congratulations Team Italy.

700
00:33:13,158 --> 00:33:15,718
Speaker 1: I just think that's the best side of the WBC

701
00:33:15,838 --> 00:33:18,518
Speaker 1: we know about the teams that are obviously just completely

702
00:33:18,558 --> 00:33:19,478
Speaker 1: in love with this game.

703
00:33:20,038 --> 00:33:22,358
Speaker 2: But the original goal of this game was to.

704
00:33:22,518 --> 00:33:26,758
Speaker 1: Grow the game internationally, and stories like this really are

705
00:33:26,798 --> 00:33:28,278
Speaker 1: at the heart of that mission.

706
00:33:28,678 --> 00:33:30,518
Speaker 4: And I loved all of that. I did.

707
00:33:30,598 --> 00:33:32,798
Speaker 3: I love the espresso machine and the Doug. I love

708
00:33:32,838 --> 00:33:34,438
Speaker 3: the kiss on the cheeks. I don't know if any

709
00:33:34,478 --> 00:33:36,158
Speaker 3: but it was beautiful to watch.

710
00:33:36,198 --> 00:33:37,478
Speaker 4: It looks like it reminded me.

711
00:33:37,398 --> 00:33:39,438
Speaker 3: A lot of Riz actually, So I was watching that

712
00:33:39,438 --> 00:33:43,918
Speaker 3: whole thing unfold. I've done clinics in Italy several times,

713
00:33:43,998 --> 00:33:46,918
Speaker 3: and it started in the mid nineties and it was

714
00:33:46,958 --> 00:33:49,518
Speaker 3: a small little group there that was very interested in baseball.

715
00:33:49,518 --> 00:33:52,678
Speaker 3: I went back again after that, and so I was

716
00:33:52,718 --> 00:33:54,158
Speaker 3: either it was in Florence, I was.

717
00:33:54,118 --> 00:33:56,838
Speaker 4: In Milano in a town called row Rho.

718
00:33:57,278 --> 00:34:00,158
Speaker 3: Did clinics with kids, like young kids too, just to

719
00:34:00,318 --> 00:34:02,278
Speaker 3: and again they were trying to grow the game. But

720
00:34:02,358 --> 00:34:04,118
Speaker 3: this is the one thing that I think could really

721
00:34:04,478 --> 00:34:07,758
Speaker 3: be a difference maker for them. But above all, what

722
00:34:07,838 --> 00:34:10,118
Speaker 3: you just described right there, I mean that I just

723
00:34:10,198 --> 00:34:13,118
Speaker 3: hope they don't become too serious about it. I mean

724
00:34:13,118 --> 00:34:15,878
Speaker 3: they were having fun. You're supposed to have fun. You're

725
00:34:15,918 --> 00:34:17,798
Speaker 3: supposed to have fun. I mean, that's what it is.

726
00:34:18,438 --> 00:34:20,318
Speaker 3: We forget to have fun. I mean a lot of

727
00:34:20,638 --> 00:34:22,398
Speaker 3: a lot of the way we're doing professional sports that

728
00:34:22,438 --> 00:34:24,758
Speaker 3: we're legislating fun out of the game, where we're just

729
00:34:25,758 --> 00:34:29,358
Speaker 3: it's becoming a little bit too heavy handed and a

730
00:34:29,398 --> 00:34:30,838
Speaker 3: little bit too of everything.

731
00:34:31,278 --> 00:34:33,878
Speaker 4: So I love the idea that I loved everything they did.

732
00:34:34,358 --> 00:34:36,878
Speaker 3: Francisco Civili and I our friends. I was very happy

733
00:34:37,398 --> 00:34:38,958
Speaker 3: for his success right there. I hope he does get

734
00:34:38,958 --> 00:34:42,198
Speaker 3: an opportunity to manage. There was so many cool things

735
00:34:42,278 --> 00:34:44,318
Speaker 3: about that, and the fact that you know, we are

736
00:34:44,358 --> 00:34:46,438
Speaker 3: half I'm half a tiny anyway, it might be full,

737
00:34:46,478 --> 00:34:48,558
Speaker 3: I'm not sure. But as well, it was just fun

738
00:34:48,638 --> 00:34:51,438
Speaker 3: fun to watch, Okay, so it was fun to watch,

739
00:34:51,838 --> 00:34:55,798
Speaker 3: and so yes, all the above. Sometimes if you've never

740
00:34:55,838 --> 00:34:57,958
Speaker 3: done it before, you need pressure release valves.

741
00:34:57,958 --> 00:34:58,238
Speaker 4: You don't.

742
00:34:58,278 --> 00:35:00,998
Speaker 3: You don't need to apply more pressure. There's enough of

743
00:35:01,038 --> 00:35:04,398
Speaker 3: you. You just describe what happened in the United States losing,

744
00:35:04,478 --> 00:35:07,318
Speaker 3: Venezuela winning, And there's kind of like a different attitude

745
00:35:07,358 --> 00:35:09,678
Speaker 3: between both sides and regards how we approach the day.

746
00:35:09,878 --> 00:35:11,438
Speaker 4: The people of Latin America.

747
00:35:11,238 --> 00:35:13,558
Speaker 3: Absolutely live the day they do, and that's one of

748
00:35:13,638 --> 00:35:15,518
Speaker 3: the things I learned by going to the Dominican back

749
00:35:15,518 --> 00:35:19,598
Speaker 3: in the day. Was how they approached the day. It

750
00:35:19,638 --> 00:35:22,438
Speaker 3: was just different in so many wonderful ways. And sometimes

751
00:35:22,438 --> 00:35:25,158
Speaker 3: we're a little bit tight about things, and then you

752
00:35:25,238 --> 00:35:30,158
Speaker 3: look at their approach to Monday or Tuesday was it's

753
00:35:30,198 --> 00:35:33,278
Speaker 3: so cool. So anyway, I'm happy for all the success.

754
00:35:33,318 --> 00:35:35,958
Speaker 3: I think it's great. I really would love to see

755
00:35:35,998 --> 00:35:39,278
Speaker 3: Italy become even more involved and we do grow the

756
00:35:39,318 --> 00:35:42,078
Speaker 3: game in Europe. I've done clinics all over Europe. Actually

757
00:35:42,638 --> 00:35:44,118
Speaker 3: it was wonderful. It was just for me. It was

758
00:35:44,118 --> 00:35:47,438
Speaker 3: a cultural experience besides this baseball experience. But if the

759
00:35:47,478 --> 00:35:50,358
Speaker 3: game could grab a football, I'll volunteer right now to

760
00:35:50,478 --> 00:35:53,798
Speaker 3: work for the Barcelona anythings Barcelona ever gets the team,

761
00:35:54,638 --> 00:35:56,398
Speaker 3: I will be a clubby for Barcelona.

762
00:35:57,078 --> 00:36:00,638
Speaker 1: That's great stuff. Yeah, I forgot forgot to mention too.

763
00:36:00,718 --> 00:36:04,598
Speaker 1: They have a home run jacket. It's Armani in Armani

764
00:36:04,678 --> 00:36:07,918
Speaker 1: jacket and Savelli. I was really impressed with Francisco. I

765
00:36:07,918 --> 00:36:10,398
Speaker 1: think he should be a major league manager one day.

766
00:36:11,878 --> 00:36:14,998
Speaker 1: One of these connectors. You know, just a great communicator,

767
00:36:16,078 --> 00:36:20,358
Speaker 1: loves the game, and you know, he had just a

768
00:36:20,398 --> 00:36:23,918
Speaker 1: good way about him in terms of keeping the game fun.

769
00:36:24,118 --> 00:36:25,598
Speaker 2: I mean, I first.

770
00:36:25,518 --> 00:36:27,318
Speaker 1: Personally got a kick out of the fact that watching

771
00:36:27,518 --> 00:36:29,798
Speaker 1: being down the dugout there and watching Team Italy they

772
00:36:29,798 --> 00:36:32,878
Speaker 1: were all on the top row. If you go to

773
00:36:32,918 --> 00:36:36,158
Speaker 1: a major League game, hardly any of the position players

774
00:36:36,198 --> 00:36:38,238
Speaker 1: are ever on the top row. They're all sitting down,

775
00:36:38,278 --> 00:36:40,798
Speaker 1: They're all in their iPads. They're all looking at the

776
00:36:40,878 --> 00:36:43,358
Speaker 1: last pitch. It's I tell people all the time, it's

777
00:36:43,358 --> 00:36:46,198
Speaker 1: like going to the Firestone Library at Princeton. They're all reading.

778
00:36:46,838 --> 00:36:49,158
Speaker 1: You know, they're not talking to each other. You know,

779
00:36:49,198 --> 00:36:51,878
Speaker 1: what is the pitcher throwing? Instead of asking the guy

780
00:36:51,878 --> 00:36:54,918
Speaker 1: who just bat it, It'll go look at the iPad. Well,

781
00:36:54,958 --> 00:36:58,118
Speaker 1: Tim Italy didn't have the iPads throughout the pool play

782
00:36:58,238 --> 00:37:01,518
Speaker 1: a Major League Baseball gave them the iPads for the

783
00:37:01,558 --> 00:37:04,918
Speaker 1: SAM semi final games. They weren't using it, but the

784
00:37:04,958 --> 00:37:07,798
Speaker 1: same deal. They were actually talking to each other about baseball.

785
00:37:07,918 --> 00:37:10,398
Speaker 1: You could call it analog baseball. It was awesome to

786
00:37:10,438 --> 00:37:13,758
Speaker 1: say nice it was American Legion baseball. It was very

787
00:37:13,798 --> 00:37:17,878
Speaker 1: authentic and oh, I mean just the communication that went on.

788
00:37:17,918 --> 00:37:20,598
Speaker 1: You could see these how close these guys bonded over

789
00:37:20,678 --> 00:37:23,518
Speaker 1: baseball and to see the game played that way, it's

790
00:37:23,598 --> 00:37:24,278
Speaker 1: just refreshing.

791
00:37:25,518 --> 00:37:27,318
Speaker 2: And by the way, it's a good call on Rizzo

792
00:37:27,398 --> 00:37:27,998
Speaker 2: on your part.

793
00:37:28,118 --> 00:37:31,438
Speaker 1: At Jason Zillow is their PR director for the Yankees

794
00:37:31,478 --> 00:37:34,678
Speaker 1: and for Team Italy actually because he's worked with riz

795
00:37:34,758 --> 00:37:38,078
Speaker 1: with the Yankees. He said, I can't believe that Vinnie

796
00:37:38,198 --> 00:37:42,038
Speaker 1: actually makes Anthony Rizzo look like an introvert.

797
00:37:43,758 --> 00:37:48,078
Speaker 3: He's that loll that's funny, it's awesome. And then analog

798
00:37:48,198 --> 00:37:51,038
Speaker 3: baseball brother, you just you just coined it.

799
00:37:51,078 --> 00:37:53,238
Speaker 4: That is beautiful. That is a T shirt waiting to

800
00:37:53,278 --> 00:37:55,678
Speaker 4: happen right there. I love all of that.

801
00:37:55,758 --> 00:37:59,718
Speaker 3: You're right about the pads, the iPads, and oh my god,

802
00:37:59,838 --> 00:38:02,478
Speaker 3: I mean, nobody watches anything anymore, and that's that's the

803
00:38:02,518 --> 00:38:04,598
Speaker 3: game is being played out there. There's everything to be

804
00:38:04,678 --> 00:38:06,678
Speaker 3: learned out there and very little to be learned on

805
00:38:06,718 --> 00:38:09,678
Speaker 3: that pad and with its through conversation. Why do the

806
00:38:09,718 --> 00:38:12,038
Speaker 3: Italians live so long? Because they sit on street corners

807
00:38:12,038 --> 00:38:14,678
Speaker 3: and cafes and they drink coffee all night and they

808
00:38:14,678 --> 00:38:16,878
Speaker 3: sip a little bit of wine. But from when I ran,

809
00:38:16,918 --> 00:38:19,318
Speaker 3: a big part of their longevity process is the fact

810
00:38:19,358 --> 00:38:21,518
Speaker 3: that they just communicate so well with one another.

811
00:38:22,158 --> 00:38:22,958
Speaker 4: And why would a.

812
00:38:22,878 --> 00:38:24,998
Speaker 3: Baseball team not be successful in the same way if

813
00:38:24,998 --> 00:38:28,518
Speaker 3: we just communicate with one another. But brother, I swear

814
00:38:28,518 --> 00:38:31,798
Speaker 3: to God, I love analog Baseball. I love that line.

815
00:38:33,078 --> 00:38:34,678
Speaker 3: I'm gonna use it. I'm gonna tell you straight up,

816
00:38:34,678 --> 00:38:36,678
Speaker 3: but I'm always gonna give you credit for it. That

817
00:38:36,838 --> 00:38:38,478
Speaker 3: is a beautiful thing. I love that.

818
00:38:39,038 --> 00:38:40,558
Speaker 2: I don't need credit. I just need one of the

819
00:38:40,598 --> 00:38:41,278
Speaker 2: T shirts.

820
00:38:41,998 --> 00:38:44,958
Speaker 3: Okay, well we could that is you know, that is

821
00:38:44,998 --> 00:38:47,198
Speaker 3: a great That is a great name for like even

822
00:38:47,238 --> 00:38:51,438
Speaker 3: like a podcast or something like that. Analog Baseball. There's

823
00:38:51,438 --> 00:38:53,758
Speaker 3: a lot we can do with that. And furthermore, before

824
00:38:53,758 --> 00:38:56,958
Speaker 3: we he cuts me off, we and this whole thing.

825
00:38:56,998 --> 00:38:58,838
Speaker 3: We did play golf the other day. Tommy did come

826
00:38:58,878 --> 00:39:01,478
Speaker 3: down and we played golf. Tommy had not played golf

827
00:39:01,598 --> 00:39:05,358
Speaker 3: all winter. I mean, I guess hit a simulator. I'm

828
00:39:05,398 --> 00:39:07,638
Speaker 3: here to tell you, folks. He crushed the ball. He

829
00:39:07,678 --> 00:39:10,638
Speaker 3: played extremely well, and of course he had never played before.

830
00:39:11,318 --> 00:39:13,478
Speaker 3: We had a nice spout. It was went back and

831
00:39:13,518 --> 00:39:17,318
Speaker 3: forth the whole way. It was outstanding. But this fella

832
00:39:17,438 --> 00:39:21,078
Speaker 3: hits the ball far. He's very strong as a nice

833
00:39:21,158 --> 00:39:23,798
Speaker 3: iron game. And just want to say that out loud.

834
00:39:24,198 --> 00:39:25,758
Speaker 3: So if you're gonna go out there and bet with

835
00:39:25,798 --> 00:39:28,918
Speaker 3: reduce he heads up. Even if he hasn't played for months,

836
00:39:28,918 --> 00:39:30,478
Speaker 3: he could still hit it far and straight.

837
00:39:30,718 --> 00:39:32,918
Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks for blowing my cover there. Now I'm gonna

838
00:39:32,918 --> 00:39:34,278
Speaker 1: have to give strokes.

839
00:39:34,038 --> 00:39:36,918
Speaker 3: Dude, I'm serious. I was like shocked he came out

840
00:39:36,958 --> 00:39:39,438
Speaker 3: of the shoot the first toll. He drives it over

841
00:39:39,478 --> 00:39:41,598
Speaker 3: that hill on the side and it's way down there.

842
00:39:41,958 --> 00:39:45,398
Speaker 3: Damn that think went farther than I thought. It's like

843
00:39:45,478 --> 00:39:48,878
Speaker 3: it's it's like easy gas. He's got easy gas. Folks.

844
00:39:49,118 --> 00:39:51,758
Speaker 2: Well, you were a gracious host, Joe, terrific course.

845
00:39:51,798 --> 00:39:54,958
Speaker 1: By the way, I had really a great time, great track,

846
00:39:55,078 --> 00:39:58,318
Speaker 1: kind of that old Florida feel, which I love. Uh

847
00:39:58,798 --> 00:40:01,118
Speaker 1: So that was a special Dick. Glad we got that

848
00:40:01,198 --> 00:40:04,358
Speaker 1: in absolutely. Hey, we're gonna take a quick break and

849
00:40:04,398 --> 00:40:06,918
Speaker 1: when we get back, Joe, I'm not sure you heard

850
00:40:06,918 --> 00:40:09,398
Speaker 1: about it, but Major League Baseball is going to try

851
00:40:09,438 --> 00:40:12,838
Speaker 1: out some more rule changes in the minor leagues.

852
00:40:12,958 --> 00:40:15,078
Speaker 2: They're coming to a minor league team near you. What

853
00:40:15,198 --> 00:40:18,038
Speaker 2: are they? Wow, we'll talk about those right after this.

854
00:40:29,798 --> 00:40:31,958
Speaker 2: Welcome back to the Book of Joe. Yeah, Joe, I

855
00:40:31,998 --> 00:40:34,758
Speaker 2: mentioned these rule changes, and it's kind.

856
00:40:34,558 --> 00:40:37,998
Speaker 1: Of cool that Baseball is using the minor leagues as

857
00:40:38,078 --> 00:40:41,638
Speaker 1: their lab right, you can break things there and get

858
00:40:41,678 --> 00:40:42,238
Speaker 1: away with it.

859
00:40:42,358 --> 00:40:43,478
Speaker 2: I have no problem with that.

860
00:40:43,878 --> 00:40:46,038
Speaker 1: They're going to try out, I think at Triple A

861
00:40:46,198 --> 00:40:50,998
Speaker 1: actually using technology to determine check swings. Now, this may

862
00:40:50,998 --> 00:40:53,158
Speaker 1: have kept you at more games over the years, Joe,

863
00:40:53,718 --> 00:40:56,278
Speaker 1: where they're gonna say if the bat goes more than

864
00:40:56,918 --> 00:41:00,118
Speaker 1: forty five degree angle, that will be considered a swing.

865
00:41:00,238 --> 00:41:02,518
Speaker 1: As you know, the swing is not defined. There is

866
00:41:02,598 --> 00:41:06,118
Speaker 1: no formal, hard definition of a swing in the rule book.

867
00:41:06,478 --> 00:41:08,438
Speaker 1: I tell people all the time what the umpires do,

868
00:41:08,518 --> 00:41:10,358
Speaker 1: and they're the ones who taught me this as a

869
00:41:10,398 --> 00:41:12,558
Speaker 1: rule of thumb. They look down the foul line and

870
00:41:12,598 --> 00:41:17,038
Speaker 1: if the barrel crosses above a parallel line with the

871
00:41:17,038 --> 00:41:19,958
Speaker 1: foul line, then they'll determine that as a swing because

872
00:41:19,958 --> 00:41:23,558
Speaker 1: the baseline umpires are literally standing on the line, unless

873
00:41:23,638 --> 00:41:27,198
Speaker 1: obviously there's a guy on first base. But I kind

874
00:41:27,198 --> 00:41:30,038
Speaker 1: of liked trying that out and see how it works.

875
00:41:30,238 --> 00:41:33,598
Speaker 1: I mean, it is, it's the course, it's the generator

876
00:41:33,638 --> 00:41:36,718
Speaker 1: of so many arguments, Joe. It's such a hard call

877
00:41:36,798 --> 00:41:42,318
Speaker 1: for umpires to make. It happens so fast, and managers

878
00:41:42,358 --> 00:41:44,158
Speaker 1: and players are so adamant that they did or they

879
00:41:44,198 --> 00:41:47,278
Speaker 1: didn't depending on the you know, way their offense defense.

880
00:41:47,998 --> 00:41:49,398
Speaker 1: I kind of like the fact I want to see

881
00:41:49,398 --> 00:41:51,798
Speaker 1: how this works out. I have nothing against you know,

882
00:41:51,838 --> 00:41:54,838
Speaker 1: we just talked about analog baseball, but in this case,

883
00:41:54,918 --> 00:41:57,318
Speaker 1: I think it may be proper to use it.

884
00:41:57,358 --> 00:41:58,798
Speaker 2: What do you think, big fan.

885
00:41:59,078 --> 00:42:00,158
Speaker 4: I've been on this for a while.

886
00:42:00,198 --> 00:42:03,158
Speaker 3: I mean i've been That is one of my biggest

887
00:42:03,158 --> 00:42:06,038
Speaker 3: pet peeves was the check swing. My first ejection as

888
00:42:06,078 --> 00:42:08,518
Speaker 3: an interim manager was in Baltimore on a check swing.

889
00:42:09,678 --> 00:42:12,918
Speaker 3: We needed more with the advancement of technology. I thought

890
00:42:12,958 --> 00:42:15,038
Speaker 3: that's one of the first places we should have looked

891
00:42:15,078 --> 00:42:18,158
Speaker 3: at because that's such the nebulous call right there, and

892
00:42:18,198 --> 00:42:20,878
Speaker 3: more so than a ball that Will Smith caught well

893
00:42:20,958 --> 00:42:23,518
Speaker 3: underneath the strike zone to end the game on a

894
00:42:23,598 --> 00:42:27,078
Speaker 3: check swing that was either absolutely a swing or absolutely

895
00:42:27,078 --> 00:42:27,358
Speaker 3: not a.

896
00:42:27,318 --> 00:42:29,558
Speaker 4: Swing, that would bother me even more. I think. So

897
00:42:29,638 --> 00:42:31,718
Speaker 4: I love this, I absolutely love it. I read about it.

898
00:42:31,718 --> 00:42:34,878
Speaker 3: It's something and their definition that they that was written

899
00:42:34,918 --> 00:42:37,478
Speaker 3: down about the what the angles.

900
00:42:37,038 --> 00:42:38,638
Speaker 4: Of forty five three angle? Is that? What it is

901
00:42:39,238 --> 00:42:41,758
Speaker 4: right that exeeds? Okay, I'm good.

902
00:42:41,798 --> 00:42:43,678
Speaker 3: I mean there's a place to start, It's a good

903
00:42:43,678 --> 00:42:46,078
Speaker 3: place to start. And then you could refine it from

904
00:42:46,078 --> 00:42:47,638
Speaker 3: there as you move it along. But I'm all on

905
00:42:47,718 --> 00:42:51,398
Speaker 3: board with the check swing becoming a little bit more,

906
00:42:51,518 --> 00:42:53,478
Speaker 3: not a little bit, we're a lot more, hopefully defined,

907
00:42:53,518 --> 00:42:55,638
Speaker 3: because that used to bother me as much as anything.

908
00:42:55,998 --> 00:42:58,598
Speaker 2: The other one is moving second base.

909
00:42:58,878 --> 00:43:03,838
Speaker 1: Yeah, it sounds really weird, right, But if you took

910
00:43:04,358 --> 00:43:07,238
Speaker 1: string and connected all the bases and the diamond shape

911
00:43:07,238 --> 00:43:10,158
Speaker 1: that they're laid out in, you would see that second

912
00:43:10,158 --> 00:43:12,678
Speaker 1: base is not it. Basically it's lined up in the

913
00:43:12,678 --> 00:43:14,878
Speaker 1: middle of the strings. What they want to do is

914
00:43:14,918 --> 00:43:17,758
Speaker 1: move the base closer to home plate so that the

915
00:43:17,918 --> 00:43:22,438
Speaker 1: entire base is within those strings, if you will, those

916
00:43:22,478 --> 00:43:23,478
Speaker 1: imaginary strings.

917
00:43:23,478 --> 00:43:24,598
Speaker 2: Hopefully you see the picture.

918
00:43:24,638 --> 00:43:28,958
Speaker 1: But if you do that, obviously moving the base closer

919
00:43:29,838 --> 00:43:32,398
Speaker 1: to the other bases, so the distance between first and

920
00:43:32,558 --> 00:43:35,558
Speaker 1: second base, which got closer by what an inch and

921
00:43:35,598 --> 00:43:38,278
Speaker 1: a half when they went to bigger bases now would

922
00:43:38,278 --> 00:43:39,238
Speaker 1: get even closer.

923
00:43:39,318 --> 00:43:43,638
Speaker 2: I forget what the math is, just.

924
00:43:43,638 --> 00:43:46,678
Speaker 1: A few inches, but a few inches could be a lot, obviously,

925
00:43:47,638 --> 00:43:49,558
Speaker 1: So they're going to try that out to move second

926
00:43:49,598 --> 00:43:52,758
Speaker 1: base entirely, as they say, within the infield.

927
00:43:52,838 --> 00:43:54,638
Speaker 2: And it's always been on the dirt. We know that.

928
00:43:54,798 --> 00:43:59,038
Speaker 1: But in terms of the geometric diamond that the bases

929
00:43:59,158 --> 00:44:01,958
Speaker 1: do form, it would be entirely within that. I think

930
00:44:01,998 --> 00:44:04,558
Speaker 1: the idea here, Joe, is that the stole base rate

931
00:44:04,718 --> 00:44:07,998
Speaker 1: actually the success rate anyway. And I think also the

932
00:44:07,998 --> 00:44:11,598
Speaker 1: attempts went down slightly and maybe teams have learned to

933
00:44:11,638 --> 00:44:15,318
Speaker 1: defend the stolen base better. They also talked about limiting

934
00:44:15,558 --> 00:44:19,838
Speaker 1: the step offs to one per batter plate appearance, which

935
00:44:19,878 --> 00:44:22,198
Speaker 1: I don't like. I think you need to have second one.

936
00:44:23,198 --> 00:44:25,078
Speaker 1: But give me your thought on moving the base, because

937
00:44:25,118 --> 00:44:28,638
Speaker 1: it sounds weird. I don't think that's a small thing.

938
00:44:28,718 --> 00:44:32,998
Speaker 1: I do think that would really increase the stolen base percentage.

939
00:44:33,038 --> 00:44:35,118
Speaker 1: How much you don't know until you actually try it.

940
00:44:35,438 --> 00:44:38,198
Speaker 3: Yeah, we move fences, and you move the mound up

941
00:44:38,238 --> 00:44:41,438
Speaker 3: and down a little bit by moving bases. I mean,

942
00:44:41,478 --> 00:44:43,998
Speaker 3: that's like at the heart of its that baseball diamond

943
00:44:44,638 --> 00:44:48,758
Speaker 3: is going to be restructured in some way. I just

944
00:44:48,758 --> 00:44:51,838
Speaker 3: don't like the idea of the attempt to make things easier. Okay,

945
00:44:52,278 --> 00:44:55,758
Speaker 3: that's how I see it. For years and the stolen

946
00:44:55,798 --> 00:44:59,358
Speaker 3: based leaders and the champions of all time have worked

947
00:44:59,358 --> 00:45:02,558
Speaker 3: from this particular grid, and now that everybody's working from

948
00:45:02,558 --> 00:45:05,718
Speaker 3: a different grid, for me, it would be about more

949
00:45:05,798 --> 00:45:08,118
Speaker 3: tolerance if you do get thrown out. I mean, why

950
00:45:08,118 --> 00:45:10,838
Speaker 3: do you have to be safe? I mean, seriously, why

951
00:45:10,878 --> 00:45:12,558
Speaker 3: don't you get why do you why didn't you get?

952
00:45:12,598 --> 00:45:14,758
Speaker 3: Why do you get some better instructors in there possibly

953
00:45:14,838 --> 00:45:16,718
Speaker 3: or teach these guys how to do it. But I

954
00:45:16,718 --> 00:45:18,358
Speaker 3: don't like the idea of limited throwovers.

955
00:45:18,358 --> 00:45:18,678
Speaker 4: I don't.

956
00:45:18,718 --> 00:45:21,158
Speaker 3: I don't like anything that impacts strategy, and this impacts

957
00:45:21,478 --> 00:45:24,718
Speaker 3: strategy for me if you're talking about one less step

958
00:45:24,718 --> 00:45:30,598
Speaker 3: off whatever. So I I'm sure it'll become innocuous over time,

959
00:45:30,598 --> 00:45:34,318
Speaker 3: which things normally do become if you don't fight for

960
00:45:34,358 --> 00:45:36,278
Speaker 3: it now. And if it doesn't really matter now, it's

961
00:45:36,318 --> 00:45:37,638
Speaker 3: not going to matter five years from now.

962
00:45:37,638 --> 00:45:40,798
Speaker 4: That's that's been moved. So I'm just.

963
00:45:40,878 --> 00:45:46,238
Speaker 3: Anti impacting game in game strategy. I'm not into making

964
00:45:46,278 --> 00:45:49,438
Speaker 3: things necessarily easier for the sake of just making them easier,

965
00:45:49,438 --> 00:45:53,798
Speaker 3: because you want people to be better at something. It's

966
00:45:53,838 --> 00:45:55,958
Speaker 3: been harder for a long time for a reason. Okay,

967
00:45:55,998 --> 00:45:58,358
Speaker 3: so now there's no more Ricky Henderson to hire, But

968
00:45:58,358 --> 00:46:00,958
Speaker 3: there's got to be somebody out there, bring somebody in

969
00:46:01,118 --> 00:46:04,798
Speaker 3: that really is able to teach this better. I mean

970
00:46:04,838 --> 00:46:07,358
Speaker 3: stealing of the basis, And then of course, how much

971
00:46:07,478 --> 00:46:09,798
Speaker 3: do you pay attention to your analytical guys and how

972
00:46:09,878 --> 00:46:12,278
Speaker 3: much when somebody gets thrown out is it going to.

973
00:46:12,238 --> 00:46:13,718
Speaker 4: Cause you sleepless nights?

974
00:46:13,918 --> 00:46:16,358
Speaker 3: I mean, because that's really what happens, and not even

975
00:46:16,358 --> 00:46:18,998
Speaker 3: realizing the fact that you are active on the basis

976
00:46:18,998 --> 00:46:21,278
Speaker 3: that you do try things, on the basis that you

977
00:46:21,318 --> 00:46:24,638
Speaker 3: do take big leads or whatever, really causes the other

978
00:46:24,678 --> 00:46:28,118
Speaker 3: team to hurry up sometimes or maybe to prepare even more.

979
00:46:28,198 --> 00:46:31,158
Speaker 3: Sometimes it gives them more to think about sometimes because

980
00:46:31,438 --> 00:46:34,518
Speaker 3: of all of the fact that there's even a threat

981
00:46:34,518 --> 00:46:36,438
Speaker 3: to do this. Now I know they're trying to create

982
00:46:36,478 --> 00:46:38,118
Speaker 3: even a greater threat, which I mean they might just

983
00:46:38,158 --> 00:46:39,998
Speaker 3: throw up their hands because we've talked about this too

984
00:46:39,998 --> 00:46:42,758
Speaker 3: analytically speaking, I mean I've known, I mean for years

985
00:46:42,758 --> 00:46:45,558
Speaker 3: they never even worried about that, because the analytical people

986
00:46:45,558 --> 00:46:48,638
Speaker 3: aren't so much worried about that the stolen base as

987
00:46:48,718 --> 00:46:50,918
Speaker 3: much as you getting as the pitcher getting the hitter out.

988
00:46:51,238 --> 00:46:52,798
Speaker 3: So I mean, I'm all over the place of this.

989
00:46:52,918 --> 00:46:55,158
Speaker 3: But that's how it's been for me, how it's been

990
00:46:55,198 --> 00:46:57,038
Speaker 3: explained to me in the past. I just think it's

991
00:46:57,518 --> 00:46:59,758
Speaker 3: don't be messing with the games that much. I mean

992
00:46:59,798 --> 00:47:02,438
Speaker 3: when you start changing the not the field. I mean,

993
00:47:02,438 --> 00:47:05,318
Speaker 3: the defenses have always been altered, but the diamond itself

994
00:47:05,638 --> 00:47:07,598
Speaker 3: and the distance of a mound, which has not been

995
00:47:07,638 --> 00:47:11,078
Speaker 3: altered to this point. At least, let's leave it alone.

996
00:47:11,798 --> 00:47:13,198
Speaker 3: I think it's been fine the way it's spin.

997
00:47:13,598 --> 00:47:15,318
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't argue with you on that.

998
00:47:16,398 --> 00:47:17,958
Speaker 1: I think one of the things they may be worried

999
00:47:17,998 --> 00:47:20,118
Speaker 1: about is time of game starting to creep up a

1000
00:47:20,158 --> 00:47:22,158
Speaker 1: little bit, because don't forget we just talked about the

1001
00:47:22,198 --> 00:47:25,278
Speaker 1: ABS system. Listen, on average, in the minor leagues, there

1002
00:47:25,278 --> 00:47:29,118
Speaker 1: are only four challenges per game. It's like three minutes

1003
00:47:29,158 --> 00:47:32,718
Speaker 1: maybe not even like two minutes added time to a game,

1004
00:47:32,758 --> 00:47:34,598
Speaker 1: but it's added. And then if you're going to check

1005
00:47:34,638 --> 00:47:37,278
Speaker 1: on check swings, now that's maybe another minute.

1006
00:47:37,358 --> 00:47:39,398
Speaker 2: And one other rule by the way, maybe this is

1007
00:47:39,438 --> 00:47:40,278
Speaker 2: a good one. I don't know.

1008
00:47:40,798 --> 00:47:43,718
Speaker 1: If your PitchCom doesn't work, and we see this happen

1009
00:47:43,758 --> 00:47:45,878
Speaker 1: a lot, right, especially believers who come into the game,

1010
00:47:46,118 --> 00:47:48,718
Speaker 1: Oh I can't hear anything. Usually happens when the pitch

1011
00:47:48,758 --> 00:47:53,318
Speaker 1: timer is running down, and if that happens, you'll be

1012
00:47:53,398 --> 00:47:56,438
Speaker 1: charged with a mound visit now, So your it department

1013
00:47:56,478 --> 00:47:58,718
Speaker 1: better be on top of things and have those things charged.

1014
00:47:59,038 --> 00:48:03,358
Speaker 3: God, oh my god. Yeah, listen, it is what it is.

1015
00:48:04,798 --> 00:48:08,398
Speaker 3: I again, it's very very basically simply. I mean, if

1016
00:48:08,438 --> 00:48:10,838
Speaker 3: the game has been gone going on one or two

1017
00:48:10,838 --> 00:48:12,798
Speaker 3: minutes longer, that's not a big deal.

1018
00:48:12,838 --> 00:48:14,198
Speaker 4: I don't think it's about the pace of the game.

1019
00:48:14,198 --> 00:48:17,358
Speaker 3: They've already addressed that the superstar is in place, the

1020
00:48:17,398 --> 00:48:20,878
Speaker 3: pitch clock is in place. That's the superstar. Now all

1021
00:48:20,918 --> 00:48:23,558
Speaker 3: this other stuff is not necessary. After you've done that,

1022
00:48:23,998 --> 00:48:25,758
Speaker 3: the pace of the game has been picked up. And

1023
00:48:25,798 --> 00:48:29,038
Speaker 3: that was the problem if you're in a dugout as

1024
00:48:29,078 --> 00:48:31,598
Speaker 3: a manager, as a coach, as a player, in the

1025
00:48:31,598 --> 00:48:35,118
Speaker 3: interminable moments where a guy would not throw the baseball

1026
00:48:35,118 --> 00:48:37,038
Speaker 3: in the moundtery but not get into batter's box as

1027
00:48:37,078 --> 00:48:39,598
Speaker 3: a hitter, those are the things that would really kind

1028
00:48:39,638 --> 00:48:41,238
Speaker 3: of like fry you.

1029
00:48:41,238 --> 00:48:41,638
Speaker 4: A little bit.

1030
00:48:41,678 --> 00:48:43,838
Speaker 3: And also I'll even go with the trips to the

1031
00:48:43,878 --> 00:48:45,998
Speaker 3: mount because guys would just go out there all the

1032
00:48:45,998 --> 00:48:48,078
Speaker 3: time and that would just drive you nuts too. So

1033
00:48:48,358 --> 00:48:50,838
Speaker 3: just pace, just keep your eye on the pace of

1034
00:48:50,878 --> 00:48:54,358
Speaker 3: the game, not so necessarily about the length of the game,

1035
00:48:54,598 --> 00:48:57,798
Speaker 3: because the game is wonderful as it is, and if

1036
00:48:57,798 --> 00:49:00,718
Speaker 3: it just continues to flow, nobody's going to notice that

1037
00:49:00,718 --> 00:49:03,078
Speaker 3: it's an extra five or six or seven minutes longer.

1038
00:49:03,478 --> 00:49:05,478
Speaker 2: It's a great point. It is all about the pace.

1039
00:49:05,678 --> 00:49:07,038
Speaker 1: It's not the time of the game, is the pace

1040
00:49:07,078 --> 00:49:09,478
Speaker 1: of the action of the game and baseball. I mean, listen,

1041
00:49:09,518 --> 00:49:13,358
Speaker 1: it's the best thing that happened to baseball since Harry M.

1042
00:49:13,358 --> 00:49:15,598
Speaker 1: Stevens have been to the hot Dog at a cold day,

1043
00:49:15,638 --> 00:49:17,838
Speaker 1: and I think it was Polo Grounds about one hundred

1044
00:49:17,838 --> 00:49:18,638
Speaker 1: and twenty years ago.

1045
00:49:19,118 --> 00:49:19,758
Speaker 2: It really is.

1046
00:49:19,838 --> 00:49:21,798
Speaker 1: And Joe, you and I are both fans of nineteen

1047
00:49:21,838 --> 00:49:26,518
Speaker 1: eighty style baseball, liberal arts style baseball. Right, you'll be

1048
00:49:26,558 --> 00:49:29,078
Speaker 1: happy to know that Major League baseball average time of

1049
00:49:29,118 --> 00:49:31,078
Speaker 1: a nine in a game for the past three years

1050
00:49:31,198 --> 00:49:33,838
Speaker 1: has been no longer than two hours and forty minutes.

1051
00:49:33,918 --> 00:49:37,038
Speaker 1: And that's the first time it has happened since the

1052
00:49:37,078 --> 00:49:41,118
Speaker 1: early nineteen eighties. So you have now a whole generation

1053
00:49:41,198 --> 00:49:43,678
Speaker 1: of people who now are just discovering baseball, or maybe

1054
00:49:43,718 --> 00:49:46,758
Speaker 1: they're getting back to it, who can really enjoy the

1055
00:49:46,798 --> 00:49:50,158
Speaker 1: game without this narrative which we had for I don't

1056
00:49:50,158 --> 00:49:52,558
Speaker 1: know twenty years, that baseball is boring and.

1057
00:49:52,558 --> 00:49:53,438
Speaker 2: It takes too long.

1058
00:49:53,838 --> 00:49:57,798
Speaker 1: If you've noticed that narrative is dead done and it's

1059
00:49:57,838 --> 00:49:59,598
Speaker 1: all because of the pitch time or the pace of game.

1060
00:49:59,758 --> 00:50:02,398
Speaker 1: So I'm glad you brought that up. About the pace

1061
00:50:02,438 --> 00:50:06,838
Speaker 1: of the game. We saw it in WBC. We saw it,

1062
00:50:06,958 --> 00:50:09,278
Speaker 1: We see it during the season. The pace is terrific.

1063
00:50:09,758 --> 00:50:13,438
Speaker 3: You're referencing analog baseball, I believe, as being so interesting.

1064
00:50:13,678 --> 00:50:15,158
Speaker 4: There you go, that's that's what it is.

1065
00:50:15,238 --> 00:50:19,318
Speaker 3: I mean, baseball eight not as interesting as analog baseball,

1066
00:50:19,358 --> 00:50:21,318
Speaker 3: is much more interesting than than digital baseball.

1067
00:50:21,318 --> 00:50:22,518
Speaker 4: I agree with that one hundred percent.

1068
00:50:22,678 --> 00:50:26,318
Speaker 1: All right, Well, now we've reached, as the WBC, the end,

1069
00:50:26,398 --> 00:50:29,318
Speaker 1: but the end only of this episode. We've got a

1070
00:50:29,318 --> 00:50:32,238
Speaker 1: Major League Baseball regular season right around the corner, which

1071
00:50:32,278 --> 00:50:34,038
Speaker 1: is amazing to me because I feel like I just

1072
00:50:34,078 --> 00:50:37,118
Speaker 1: went through the postseason, Joe, in the last two weeks exactly.

1073
00:50:37,158 --> 00:50:38,998
Speaker 4: I know you have you have, man, but.

1074
00:50:38,998 --> 00:50:42,118
Speaker 1: The games have been great, like postseason environments. I'll take it,

1075
00:50:42,158 --> 00:50:45,078
Speaker 1: and maybe not every March, but every three years.

1076
00:50:45,118 --> 00:50:48,358
Speaker 2: It's perfect. So what do you have to end this one?

1077
00:50:48,918 --> 00:50:49,718
Speaker 2: As our closer?

1078
00:50:49,958 --> 00:50:54,758
Speaker 3: The passion that was displayed yesterday at the conclusion, you've

1079
00:50:54,798 --> 00:50:56,758
Speaker 3: already we've talked about that and you brought it up

1080
00:50:56,798 --> 00:51:00,718
Speaker 3: really well. So you watch the way these folks react

1081
00:51:00,798 --> 00:51:03,478
Speaker 3: to and it just made me think about Boulder Collegians

1082
00:51:03,558 --> 00:51:07,478
Speaker 3: nineteen seventy five, Salem Angels nineteen eighty two, and I

1083
00:51:07,478 --> 00:51:09,558
Speaker 3: have Angels two thousand and two, Tampa Bay Raised and

1084
00:51:09,678 --> 00:51:12,678
Speaker 3: finish it, but it was two thousand and eight, and

1085
00:51:12,718 --> 00:51:16,678
Speaker 3: then of course the Cubs in twenty sixteen, and forever

1086
00:51:16,878 --> 00:51:18,438
Speaker 3: it is composed of nows.

1087
00:51:19,838 --> 00:51:20,118
Speaker 4: I love.

1088
00:51:20,198 --> 00:51:22,638
Speaker 3: That's Emily Dickinson. It's a poem she had written. So

1089
00:51:22,878 --> 00:51:25,438
Speaker 3: all these people involved, whether you were talking about players,

1090
00:51:25,438 --> 00:51:28,398
Speaker 3: are specifically you're talking about fans in the stack because

1091
00:51:28,398 --> 00:51:31,398
Speaker 3: they kept cutting away and you know a lot of

1092
00:51:31,478 --> 00:51:34,038
Speaker 3: Venezuelan fans there, And I just cannot help but think

1093
00:51:34,118 --> 00:51:37,558
Speaker 3: that it is far more reaching than just winning a

1094
00:51:37,598 --> 00:51:41,038
Speaker 3: baseball game for that particular group, based on the recent

1095
00:51:41,118 --> 00:51:44,398
Speaker 3: history what happened in their country. So there these are

1096
00:51:44,478 --> 00:51:48,198
Speaker 3: moments that you'll never ever, never ever forget, And it's forever.

1097
00:51:48,238 --> 00:51:52,198
Speaker 3: It's composed of nows. So I have that T shirt

1098
00:51:52,198 --> 00:51:54,158
Speaker 3: that I made years ago that I wear often still

1099
00:51:54,158 --> 00:51:56,918
Speaker 3: and I love it. That made all your surrealisms come true,

1100
00:51:57,438 --> 00:52:00,118
Speaker 3: And that was a surrealistic moment for all those people yesterday,

1101
00:52:00,598 --> 00:52:02,398
Speaker 3: and so another way of saying it forever, it is

1102
00:52:02,438 --> 00:52:04,838
Speaker 3: composed of nows and I really love that.

1103
00:52:04,998 --> 00:52:06,638
Speaker 2: It's a great way to end it. Love that line.

1104
00:52:06,638 --> 00:52:09,478
Speaker 1: I've actually never heard that one before, but that is

1105
00:52:09,518 --> 00:52:13,838
Speaker 1: a fitting and poetic way to end not just this episode,

1106
00:52:13,878 --> 00:52:18,118
Speaker 1: but really a terrific WBC. Congratulations to Venezuela. It was

1107
00:52:18,198 --> 00:52:21,678
Speaker 1: a great tournament obviously for the country. But if you're

1108
00:52:21,678 --> 00:52:24,638
Speaker 1: a baseball fan, my goodness, what a show. Got to

1109
00:52:24,678 --> 00:52:27,558
Speaker 1: be happy with it opening day right around the corner

1110
00:52:27,598 --> 00:52:30,398
Speaker 1: of Joe. Yes, sir, looking forward to another year of

1111
00:52:30,798 --> 00:52:32,638
Speaker 1: Major League baseball with you right here at the Book

1112
00:52:32,638 --> 00:52:32,918
Speaker 1: of Joe.

1113
00:52:32,918 --> 00:52:33,718
Speaker 2: We'll see you next time.

1114
00:52:33,918 --> 00:52:35,678
Speaker 3: Thank you, brother, same here and watch out for those

1115
00:52:35,678 --> 00:52:43,438
Speaker 3: Atlanta Hawks. See you, guys.

1116
00:52:39,278 --> 00:52:48,438
Speaker 1: And The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

1117
00:52:48,678 --> 00:52:53,558
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1118
00:52:53,758 --> 00:52:55,558
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.