Speaker 1: My name is Clay and Nucleman. This is a production
Speaker 1: of the bear Grease podcast called the bear Grease Render
Speaker 1: where we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the
Speaker 1: scenes of the actual bear Grease podcast presented by f
Speaker 1: HF Gear, American made purpose built hunting and fishing gear
Speaker 1: that's designed to be as rugged as the places we explore. Guys,
Speaker 1: We've got an exclusive bear Grease discount code for f
Speaker 1: h F Gear that's fish Hunt Fight Gear. I've been
Speaker 1: using their products for the last year and I love
Speaker 1: carrying my gear in a chest rig or my binos
Speaker 1: in their bino arness. It's easier and more accessible than
Speaker 1: a backpack and it doesn't get in the way when
Speaker 1: I'm riding my mule. For a limited time, you can
Speaker 1: head over to f h F gear dot com forward
Speaker 1: slash bear Grease and listeners to this yere podcast get
Speaker 1: a discount on purchases for your f h F Gear
Speaker 1: system and you can see how I build my gear system.
Speaker 1: So go to f h F gear dot com forward
Speaker 1: slash bear Grease for a special code. If you're buying
Speaker 1: stuff from f h F Gear, check it out fish
Speaker 1: Hunt Fight f h F Gear say that again, I
Speaker 1: think we should make a podcast that's dichrontal Render participants
Speaker 1: because there's a growing number. Is there is there strife
Speaker 1: on the team, Well, classic clueless leadership strife on the team. Well,
Speaker 1: is a fat dog you have? We're barely hanging on.
Speaker 1: Just say, there's been some meetings in private players only
Speaker 1: meeting cover. We're just forming a union. We've ununized. He speaking,
Speaker 1: Welcome to the bear Groose Render. Speaking of the render,
Speaker 1: what do you guys think at the last render when
Speaker 1: we got booted out without notice? What time? It's stung
Speaker 1: a little, it's stung, taken a whole week off. This
Speaker 1: is a safe place. Okay, we're gonna talk about what's
Speaker 1: on our hearts. Okay. It's kind of like watching your
Speaker 1: kids go to family Christmas somewhere else and hey, listen,
Speaker 1: I had I had some very I had some very
Speaker 1: good feedback from uh from that one. And then I
Speaker 1: had also some guys that were like, never let those
Speaker 1: guys on there again. Bring back the guys we love.
Speaker 1: And that was you guys, It was we really like
Speaker 1: those guys there. I listened to a lot of it.
Speaker 1: It was nice of them to fill in. I'll say
Speaker 1: that we'll see. What people don't understand is that when
Speaker 1: you're in show biz, you gotta do what show biz
Speaker 1: has to do. We had been hunting and we had
Speaker 1: to make a render, and that that was part of
Speaker 1: the plan from the beginning is at different times we
Speaker 1: would have a full new crew, well like if I
Speaker 1: was somewhere in a camp and I would just fill
Speaker 1: it in. So it was. It was super fund it
Speaker 1: and five minutes into it, I thought, this is Clay's fault,
Speaker 1: because clearly you had made them so uncomfortable that they, hey, okay,
Speaker 1: we had been really I guess we had been pounding
Speaker 1: the dirt for days days and uh and we we
Speaker 1: really were tired. But it was it was great. It
Speaker 1: was great Mark, and having all the guys on there
Speaker 1: was fun. I had a lot of people say they
Speaker 1: really liked it. But it's great to have everybody back. Hey,
Speaker 1: let me do uh, let me let me do. Introductions.
Speaker 1: Josh Spillmaker, Josh Landbridge spillmaker to my left. Good to
Speaker 1: see Josh. It's good to be seen. Honestly. Hey, we're
Speaker 1: gonna play some music later, like real live music, and
Speaker 1: you're a part of it. Hey, we have one guest
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna come back to him as is our
Speaker 1: as is our custom. To Josh's left, Dr Daniel Rupe. Everybody, Hey,
Speaker 1: Dan Rupe has been killing some deer. Did you know that, Dad? Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's He's killed two deer in our meetings. We talked
Speaker 1: several things between Dan and I hope. Well, congrats on
Speaker 1: the deer. So this is your first year bow hunting
Speaker 1: in a while though, first year bo hunt probably twelve
Speaker 1: or thirty. Really, yeah, I knew about one of them.
Speaker 1: I didn't know about the other one I got. I
Speaker 1: got a little dough the other night, about four nights ago.
Speaker 1: I almost took all out here driving up here tonight. Really, yeah,
Speaker 1: don't we just so the freezers as of tonight we
Speaker 1: just this afternoon week. It's a big deal to kill
Speaker 1: a deer with a bow man. I'm so thankful. It's
Speaker 1: been really fun. I've got a good friend of mine
Speaker 1: gives me a little spot to hunt on, and yeah,
Speaker 1: just wonderful. That's awesome. Yeah, that's really good. It's hard
Speaker 1: to find a good friend. To Dan's left, it's been
Speaker 1: a while since you've been here in a while. It's
Speaker 1: been probably four or five weeks. You know there's been
Speaker 1: a couple of Gary Newcomb for president campaigns going on.
Speaker 1: Did you were you were of this? I wasn't you know.
Speaker 1: I've applied for unemployment but didn't work. It didn't work
Speaker 1: for president. I'll put a sticker on my car. Have
Speaker 1: you done any hunting none? You know. I've been shooting
Speaker 1: my bow. I got my equipment ready, I've got my
Speaker 1: scent lock ready to go. But when I get up
Speaker 1: in the morning, I think, why am I doing this? Man?
Speaker 1: And so you don't go, huh, you just stay home? Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I really have plans of killing the monster buck
Speaker 1: this year. Good. Did you hear the shout out that
Speaker 1: you got from Mark Kenyon? No? I mean yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: So so my dad Gary nucolemb and Mark Kenyon whose
Speaker 1: meat eaters white Tail Guru, his his his podcast and
Speaker 1: what he does is is branded Underwired to Hunt, and
Speaker 1: he has one of the top white tailed podcasts in
Speaker 1: the country, if not the top white tail podcast. So
Speaker 1: me and Mark always have this fun thing going where
Speaker 1: he is like a guru. He's like a he's like
Speaker 1: a gear nerd in tactics. I mean like his his
Speaker 1: mind is like a like a gearbox. When it comes
Speaker 1: to all this stuff. What Mark wouldn't know is that
Speaker 1: my mind used to be that way, and I was
Speaker 1: liberated in my mind used to be that way because
Speaker 1: Gary Newcom's mind is that way. And so I grew
Speaker 1: up under the white Tailed Jedi Master, Ultimate sent Control,
Speaker 1: Ultimate tree Stands, set up, Ultimate gear Guy, Ultimate bow Tinker.
Speaker 1: I mean all that leftover stuff from years ago. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then Dad gave a bunch stuff to Josh. Josh
Speaker 1: stole a lot of that stuff. I didn't flashlight. I
Speaker 1: admit I stole the flashlight for six years, but I
Speaker 1: gave it give back six years. So Dad used to
Speaker 1: be what still is, big time in the gear and
Speaker 1: and Dad and I have talked about this private least
Speaker 1: we've worked through this. But that kind of impacted me
Speaker 1: into not really liking gear. Gears like gears, like gears
Speaker 1: like uh, necessary evil, You're like the prodigal son. Maybe.
Speaker 1: So I said all that to say Mark and Dad
Speaker 1: got along great. Yeah. Yeah, I thought a lot of Mark.
Speaker 1: That whole crew was just extremely nice. I mean I
Speaker 1: just enjoyed every one of those guys. Yeah. Yeah. By
Speaker 1: the way, Mark said he might get me a piece
Speaker 1: of gear. Oh, yeah, and he said, if I don't
Speaker 1: get it, to tell you, okay, So Mark, I need
Speaker 1: to tell Mark to get you some gear. So the
Speaker 1: way this, the way this worked is we hunted down
Speaker 1: around where Dad lives for a film that you'll see
Speaker 1: one day through Meat Eater of Mark hunting public land
Speaker 1: down in the mountains. So I didn't even tell Mom
Speaker 1: and Dad too many specifics about when we were gonna
Speaker 1: be down in their hometown because we weren't gonna have
Speaker 1: time to go see him. So I didn't want them
Speaker 1: to think much about us be in there. So we
Speaker 1: go there Dan and at like eight o'clock we were delayed.
Speaker 1: It was like eight o'clock at night, and we were
Speaker 1: about to have to go out in the woods and
Speaker 1: set up our full camp and in camp in the dark,
Speaker 1: and then break it all down and go hike back
Speaker 1: in at daylight. And so I said, you know what,
Speaker 1: I bet we could stay with Juju. And so I
Speaker 1: called my mom and I was like, what are you doing, Juju?
Speaker 1: And she's like, oh, we're just you know, getting ready
Speaker 1: for bad or whatever. She said. You know, I was like,
Speaker 1: how would you feel about six of us coming and
Speaker 1: stay in the night with you right now, And she
Speaker 1: said the prodigal son. She said, what do you think
Speaker 1: the calf? What would a southern mom say if that happened? Well,
Speaker 1: come on, okay, well she said that. She expressed some
Speaker 1: worries to have y'all eaten. Yes, I don't have any food.
Speaker 1: I hadn't cooked, play stuff like that. And I was like, Juji,
Speaker 1: we're we've already eaten, We're full. We don't need any food.
Speaker 1: I don't have any food. Juju, we don't need any food.
Speaker 1: We're not hungry, don't but I just don't have much food. Juju,
Speaker 1: we don't need any food. Did she have food when
Speaker 1: you got there? Anyway? She had a little bit, she did.
Speaker 1: She scratched so much. Is she talking about the house
Speaker 1: being a mess? Okay? I wasn't gonna say, but yeah,
Speaker 1: she's like, yep, she's like, the house is a mess.
Speaker 1: And the house was perfectly clean. And so we went
Speaker 1: over and stayed with mom and dad. It was it
Speaker 1: was a lot of fun. Oh yeah, it was nice.
Speaker 1: We really enjoyed it. And then we stayed on the
Speaker 1: tail end of the trip to five days later. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we came back and stayed at night and all the
Speaker 1: guys just loved Mom and Dad had a good times.
Speaker 1: We actually recorded the Render at their house, taking to
Speaker 1: his spirits one time. Oh really you've been down it? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: years ago. Well i've been down there. I'll go down
Speaker 1: to see Gary. Okay, we're but friends with Mark Kenyon.
Speaker 1: Mark and I go way back. I've never bet um
Speaker 1: marks like the sun I never had. Hey, we've got it.
Speaker 1: We've got a great podcast. I'm very excited about this.
Speaker 1: We're going to talk about the third and final kind
Speaker 1: of Southwest themed podcast. So this podcast was not just
Speaker 1: about Warner Glenn. It was about the Borderland's Jaguar. We're
Speaker 1: gonna that's where we're going. So if you're new to
Speaker 1: the Render, which there's a lot of people that might
Speaker 1: be new to this. We produce a documentary style podcast.
Speaker 1: I haven't introduced our guests. Goodness gracious, you know. Okay,
Speaker 1: I've got to finish what I was gonna say and
Speaker 1: then we'll come back. So the bear Grease Podcast is
Speaker 1: a documentary style podcast that we you know, just put
Speaker 1: a ton of energy and effort into. The bear Grease
Speaker 1: Render is this informal gathering of p literally we talk
Speaker 1: about we we So this is the Bear Grease render
Speaker 1: you're listening to. Okay, to Gary's left, my lovely wife,
Speaker 1: Missy Newcomb always good to be here? Yeah, good to
Speaker 1: be here? Great. Okay. Our mystery guest is my long
Speaker 1: time friend. We go to church together. We're neighbors. Tyrell Dennison.
Speaker 1: Welcome toy Ay you glad to be here. Man, this
Speaker 1: is uh. I knew this day would come that you
Speaker 1: would be on the render. It's nice to be here.
Speaker 1: I'm glad has gotten has been pretty instrumental in my world,
Speaker 1: career world. He really was. Ty was the one who,
Speaker 1: like seven years ago, did you know this, Josh? We
Speaker 1: were producing that bare Horizon video for for Bear Hunting Magazine.
Speaker 1: If people have not watched, they should go back and
Speaker 1: watch because man, I'm embarrassed with some of that stuff.
Speaker 1: I love it. I still watch videos some really good content. Well,
Speaker 1: so we were producing bare Horizon videos, that's what we
Speaker 1: call it. I think we started thought it was fantastic.
Speaker 1: What are you talking about? Yeah? Some of it was good,
Speaker 1: um and better than a couple of renders of her,
Speaker 1: So listen, listen Dan. Then we just had him on
Speaker 1: like video and like embedded him on our website. That's
Speaker 1: what I didn't even know what video was then. That's
Speaker 1: that's what you did back in those days. But I mean,
Speaker 1: I didn't know what video was until he said, hey,
Speaker 1: you can watch these videos. Okay, yeah, it's just a
Speaker 1: way to implant a video on a on a web page.
Speaker 1: Well then Ty one day walked up to me and said, Clay,
Speaker 1: you need to put your videos on YouTube. And I
Speaker 1: was like, nah. I mean this was like, is like
Speaker 1: seven years ago. So I was like, man, YouTube is
Speaker 1: for like cell phone videos and low quality content, and
Speaker 1: I said, not anymore. He said, he said, this is
Speaker 1: the direction that the market's going. You gotta put your
Speaker 1: stuff on YouTube. And he was adamant about it. And
Speaker 1: I did it, and within like a month, I had
Speaker 1: a viral video on YouTube. It was when that bear
Speaker 1: touched my arrow and that video jump started the Bear
Speaker 1: Hunting Magazine YouTube channel, which built it out. Anyway, so
Speaker 1: tid Innison has been influential and tis always really good
Speaker 1: at giving me feedback. One and I barely understand YouTube,
Speaker 1: Like I'm not someone who's like following YouTuber. Like the
Speaker 1: fact that people can just create content on YouTube like
Speaker 1: in their rooms. Still like breaks my brain. I'm just like,
Speaker 1: I don't know how people make millions on YouTube, But
Speaker 1: I had seen enough quality content in like my areas
Speaker 1: of interest where I knew like, oh, there's there's stuff
Speaker 1: here besides just guys with their with their webcam talking
Speaker 1: about what's been going on on the internet these days
Speaker 1: amongst the kiddos. And it's like, there's actually some really
Speaker 1: nice stuff around here. Yeah, and so it's just like, man,
Speaker 1: it it'll it'll get out there and people will share
Speaker 1: it for sure. And so and yeah, I was glad
Speaker 1: to hear that it took off because it was it
Speaker 1: was good stuff you need to get out there. It
Speaker 1: still is, Yeah, nothing to be ashamed of on that
Speaker 1: YouTube channel. Well, I've learned inside of media is that
Speaker 1: you do stuff and then you go back and look
Speaker 1: at it and it's like a different version of who
Speaker 1: you are and you're kind of But no, there's there's
Speaker 1: some there's some real good bear hunts on. There's some
Speaker 1: good white tail hunts too. Speaking of white tail hunts,
Speaker 1: I have something I want to show you guys. I
Speaker 1: have a little something to show you boys. Oh look
Speaker 1: at that Look at that guy, look at that sucker,
Speaker 1: that is a skull, a non typical skull. This is
Speaker 1: so this. By the time this render comes out, I
Speaker 1: will have put this picture on YouTube, the YouTube on
Speaker 1: the Instagram. This deer was walking around about twenty six
Speaker 1: hours ago. I killed that deer in Oklahoma yesterday. This
Speaker 1: is the one you've you were going after for days.
Speaker 1: No negative negative. There was a different one that was
Speaker 1: a different buck. This this was This is the first
Speaker 1: time I hunted this property in Oklahoma. So let me
Speaker 1: tell you what we've been doing for the last seven days.
Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon, Spencer, New Hearth, Tony Peterson, and myself have
Speaker 1: been hunting. We're basically Meat Eater is making a white
Speaker 1: tail series that's gonna come out like in two weeks.
Speaker 1: We're going to produce a bunch of episodes that document
Speaker 1: our hunts. And we were hunting in four different states.
Speaker 1: Were actually hunted in I think six different states between
Speaker 1: the four of us in the last week. In the
Speaker 1: last week, Yeah, I killed that deer on the last
Speaker 1: day of the hunt. Man. Who can describe that rack
Speaker 1: to somebody? It's the one side is really clean and
Speaker 1: it just has a typical five point typical five points side.
Speaker 1: The other side looks like something out of a sci
Speaker 1: fi fantasy movie. Yeah, well actually doesn't. Let's a live
Speaker 1: measuring of that time. How long is that spike? So
Speaker 1: basically it has one very clean, typical five point side.
Speaker 1: The left side is just a spike of one to
Speaker 1: three four or five six points, and the two bottom
Speaker 1: ones are are like horizontal. Yeah, that from the base
Speaker 1: fourteen and a half inches thirteen and a quarter inches,
Speaker 1: that's thirteen and a quarter Would that be the main beam?
Speaker 1: You know, it would be a judgment called that would
Speaker 1: probably say it's the main beam, but okay, and then
Speaker 1: this would be like the brow time. Right here, we'll
Speaker 1: go from the burr. That's about twelve inches. So you're
Speaker 1: gonna see pictures this on Instagram and on Instagram it
Speaker 1: looks like a hundred It's it's not that big. It's
Speaker 1: a This was a three year old deer. I don't
Speaker 1: even know what filter you used to make the deer
Speaker 1: look bigger. It was just it's just pictures make deer
Speaker 1: look about twenty inches bigger than they are. They just
Speaker 1: always do. But app called Antler me, Hey that's a
Speaker 1: good looking deer. I mean I was expecting it to
Speaker 1: be less than that. Based on what you said, I'm
Speaker 1: I'm very impressed with that animal. Man. It was a
Speaker 1: big it was a big body deer and all he
Speaker 1: came in. We had hunted seven days and I never
Speaker 1: even saw a buck. I would have shot in seven
Speaker 1: full days of hunting and good places. I hunted three
Speaker 1: and a half days in Arkansas, three and a half
Speaker 1: days in southeast Oklahoma, and Uh, I hunted with my
Speaker 1: friend Alvin Grigg, who he and he and his wife
Speaker 1: like a week ago. I got they he heard what
Speaker 1: I was trying to do, and he said, hey, come
Speaker 1: hunt our place. Super generous and that I went down
Speaker 1: there and they rolled the red carpet for me, And
Speaker 1: he hadn't hunted much out there, so he didn't really
Speaker 1: know the you know, he hadn't been out there much
Speaker 1: this year, and but he knew the good pinch points
Speaker 1: on this property and um and anyway, I killed that
Speaker 1: deer after three days and we hadn't seen very many
Speaker 1: deer until this deer came in. But man, he marched
Speaker 1: in just like on a mission, and UH shot him
Speaker 1: about twenty two yards just afternoon, hit him far back. Dad.
Speaker 1: I told Alvin, I said, when I was a boy
Speaker 1: learning how to bow hunt. Well, you know what I
Speaker 1: told I told him when we were young, you preached
Speaker 1: us not to hit him in the shoulder. And to
Speaker 1: this day I'm I'm over forty years old, and I
Speaker 1: if I hit a deer a little off, it's slightly back.
Speaker 1: I've killed a lot of deer with a liver shot,
Speaker 1: and it's because I have deep and deeply ingrained into
Speaker 1: my default substructure of action is to aim far back
Speaker 1: from the shoulder, which produces a liver shot. Deer liver shot,
Speaker 1: Dere's no big deal. You just give him two plus hours,
Speaker 1: sometimes longer longer. And but that deer around d twenty
Speaker 1: yards and was dead as a hammer. It bled very little, though,
Speaker 1: because it was a broadside shot and we were hunting
Speaker 1: these little post oak trees in southeast Oklahoma, and so
Speaker 1: we couldn't get up very high, and the deer was
Speaker 1: slightly kind of up a little bit of a grade.
Speaker 1: So I was almost shooting like straight at it. And
Speaker 1: so the area went in. The entry and exit were
Speaker 1: at the same level, and so by the time he
Speaker 1: filled up with blood that it just didn't bleed much.
Speaker 1: That's how it stuck in that tree almost flat. That
Speaker 1: photo that you put on I guess Facebook, And there's
Speaker 1: your arrows sticking in the tree. What it was that
Speaker 1: negative just shot a tree. The arrow was not sticking
Speaker 1: in the tree. I just held the arrow out. I
Speaker 1: was just holding the arrow. You may want to look
Speaker 1: at that again. No, oh, my goodness. Was it was fading?
Speaker 1: Was it? What was it doing? Okay, so I'll tell
Speaker 1: you the whole I'll tell you the whole story. It
Speaker 1: was a pinch point on the back of a big
Speaker 1: field corner where the deer come through. They were they
Speaker 1: were they were coming through the back side of that
Speaker 1: corner and they were feeding. I mean, it's just it's
Speaker 1: just the way we hunt down. That's the only buck
Speaker 1: that you saw. There was. There was one other eight
Speaker 1: point buck that I would have shot. It's it's too
Speaker 1: long a story, and you'll hear it in the video
Speaker 1: when when we played the hunt. But I spooked a
Speaker 1: buck that was tending the dough when we came in
Speaker 1: there at like two o'clock in the afternoon. So anyway,
Speaker 1: it was a good hunt. There were multiple deer killed.
Speaker 1: I think I can say this between the four of us,
Speaker 1: there were five bucks killed in seven days. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: it be a lot of action. You know, if I'm
Speaker 1: listening to this, I want to know what kind of
Speaker 1: bow you were shooting, what kind of air, what kind
Speaker 1: of broadhead were you know, saddle were you know, you know,
Speaker 1: what were you hunting out of? Uh? Yeah, I'd like
Speaker 1: to know that. Okay, even though I know most of
Speaker 1: it you were in it. Well, I I was in
Speaker 1: a a new tethered saddle. We we hunted in those
Speaker 1: things all week long. I mean we we made multiple
Speaker 1: all day sits in a tethered saddle. Now, forgive me,
Speaker 1: I'm not moved into the saddle realm yet. Are all
Speaker 1: saddles tethered or is a brand? There? They are multiple
Speaker 1: brands of saddles. Tethered is a brand, and they as
Speaker 1: I understand that, we're kind of they were kind of
Speaker 1: they were kind of the leader that kind of reintroduced
Speaker 1: saddle hunting to the world. Saddle hunting used to I
Speaker 1: mean people have saddle hunted for a long time, but
Speaker 1: used to it was kind of this. It was it
Speaker 1: was just kind of like this quirky thing that you know,
Speaker 1: you're weird neighbor didn't limited your ability to shoot a bow?
Speaker 1: It makes it better. I think it does. I mean,
Speaker 1: just you have more radius around that tree. You can
Speaker 1: almost shoot. If it was just a perfectly straight tree,
Speaker 1: you could you could pretty much shoot three d sixty
Speaker 1: degrees around that tree, probably three forty. There's probably a
Speaker 1: little window, but you can spin all the way around
Speaker 1: the tree. And you just have to get comfortable kind
Speaker 1: of hanging off of it. But it it. I mean
Speaker 1: I I just put on a saddle and went hunting
Speaker 1: and was fine. So it's not like you have to
Speaker 1: practice a ton, but you do have to get used
Speaker 1: to it. You have to get used to kind of
Speaker 1: hanging and just how it works and getting making it comfortable.
Speaker 1: And you're not scooting up like you are in a climber,
Speaker 1: Like how are you getting up there? So you gotta
Speaker 1: use you gotta use sticks, or you have to have
Speaker 1: a method of getting up a tree. So you still
Speaker 1: have to get up a tree. That what it does
Speaker 1: is eliminates you having to have multiple tree stands, and
Speaker 1: it eliminates you having to go in and hang a
Speaker 1: stand like the day before, or you know, you're carrying
Speaker 1: in something real heavy. You carry a saddle and some sticks,
Speaker 1: but it's you know, it sounds magical, but you know,
Speaker 1: you it's hard to climb a tree, no matter what
Speaker 1: you're doing. Humans weren't made in climb tree is very good.
Speaker 1: It's hard to climb a tree. It's pretty wiry, aren't
Speaker 1: you to clubs? I mean, twelve year old meat that
Speaker 1: I was pretty well suited for it. I did it
Speaker 1: quite a bit. Yeah. And do you have a like
Speaker 1: a traditional safety harness on as well? That's your safety.
Speaker 1: You can't you can't come out of it, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know. The older I get, the more nervous
Speaker 1: I get. I want to be up high. I love
Speaker 1: being up high. I get nervous when I'm up there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I like being up high. But inevitably, inevitably, when I
Speaker 1: get twenty feet up in a tree, I'm gonna drop something.
Speaker 1: You drop it, and then I'm gonna go back down,
Speaker 1: and then I gotta go back up. So sixteen ft
Speaker 1: feet is the sweet spot. Sixteen returns after that? How
Speaker 1: high do you like to get? You know? And and
Speaker 1: you know, when I was younger, I love to hunt
Speaker 1: at twenty four, you know, I think that if you do,
Speaker 1: if you do twenty to twenty four and you do
Speaker 1: a little bit of cent control, you can get away
Speaker 1: with lots of stuff. When you get down fifteen sixteen seventeen.
Speaker 1: I mean, you gotta be playing a win all the time. Time.
Speaker 1: You've gotta be real cautious. You get twenty four, you
Speaker 1: don't even have to turn the volume down on your
Speaker 1: YouTube videos. That's right, That's right. But I mean that's
Speaker 1: been my experience. Yeah. And this guy that we've talked
Speaker 1: about that has killed so many big bucks in another state,
Speaker 1: I mean he likes to hunt it thirty ft I
Speaker 1: didn't have to get yeah right, yeah, yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: thirty thirty ft. You know he loves to talk about
Speaker 1: scentlock and how good it is. Well, it's you can
Speaker 1: at thirty feet. He can eat a pizza. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, so I love this guy. He hunts kind
Speaker 1: of the way I hunt, except he successful. And I'm
Speaker 1: not to take a cup of coffee up there with
Speaker 1: but uh, you know, when he tells me what he does,
Speaker 1: I mean there's a lot. There's a lot of stuff
Speaker 1: I do. And he likes to hunt food like I
Speaker 1: like to hunt. And he's better at betting areas. He's
Speaker 1: really good. That's that's the real key to seems to
Speaker 1: be right now is to on how to get in
Speaker 1: bedding areas and the edge of betting areas. And I've
Speaker 1: never been too good at that. Well, this is part
Speaker 1: of the world that we live in is so thick.
Speaker 1: There's betting could be everywhere. A lot of the places
Speaker 1: these guys are hunting. It's just so different than here.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's agricultural fields, big open timber in the
Speaker 1: thickets or the crp. It's very defined and it's like
Speaker 1: the dear bed here. They feed here, and that is
Speaker 1: just not the way it is. And those are gonna
Speaker 1: wash toll mountains at all. It's just not so. But
Speaker 1: you're shooting the prime boat, Yeah, shooting the prime A
Speaker 1: prime six. I'm shooting uh G five dead meat broad heads.
Speaker 1: I like them. They fly good. As an expandable head.
Speaker 1: I used for for years I was fixed blade hardcore.
Speaker 1: This year I started shooting those and and they shoot good.
Speaker 1: You told me fifteen years ago to only use expandable
Speaker 1: that he that was I remember he was that was
Speaker 1: back in the day and then he went all See.
Speaker 1: When I met Clay and started hunting with him, he
Speaker 1: was all fixed blade. So he taught me out of expandables,
Speaker 1: and now he's back to expand the season. It's like,
Speaker 1: it's like, why don't we go through all the places
Speaker 1: where I flip flopped in my life? According to all
Speaker 1: you guys eyes, No, no, my buddy, my buddy Chris Roberts.
Speaker 1: When he first started hunting with me, Dad, I was hardcore,
Speaker 1: sent control, you know, keep your clothes and plastic bags,
Speaker 1: use bacon, soda, use you know before I know, I know,
Speaker 1: you know not. Don't put on your clothes in your truck.
Speaker 1: I mean hardcore. I can't I you do not do
Speaker 1: that anymore? How many times I wrote you did this morning.
Speaker 1: We don't want to have this conversation. I wrote in
Speaker 1: Gary Newcome's jeep for years in my underwear to the
Speaker 1: stand that was just that was just a practical job.
Speaker 1: That was yeah, believe well, I really I don't know
Speaker 1: that this is a place the platform for this debate.
Speaker 1: But I basically going back to what or what I
Speaker 1: said about Dad, like he Dad was just methodical with
Speaker 1: everything he did, and that's the reason he was good
Speaker 1: a good bow hunter. He's still around off this, I
Speaker 1: uh no about twelve thirteen, fifteen years ago, about the
Speaker 1: time man you didn't hunt and we're off away. I
Speaker 1: I just scratched all sin control, all sink control, and
Speaker 1: went straight up woodsman Josh Spillmaker. And uh turns out
Speaker 1: I kill more dear now than I did then. I
Speaker 1: don't I don't know if it's a spurious correlation, meaning
Speaker 1: a correlation that's really not connected. Maybe I've gotten better
Speaker 1: places to hunt, maybe I've got here. Doesn't mean we
Speaker 1: don't know what a correlation is. Clay, Yeah, yeah, up.
Speaker 1: Now you say it's just just just just hunting the wind. Like,
Speaker 1: if there's a south wind, you're hunt in a place
Speaker 1: where the deer gonna be north of you. It's just
Speaker 1: that simple. If there's a north wind, you're hunting the
Speaker 1: place where the deer gonna be south of you, and
Speaker 1: you just play the wind. Because what what I found
Speaker 1: was I would I would do my sent control to
Speaker 1: the to the highest level that I was possible, that
Speaker 1: was possible for me and my skill set to do,
Speaker 1: and I'd go hunting and deer would still smell me.
Speaker 1: So I was like, why am iote devoting my whole
Speaker 1: life to this? And now Dad, you tell them why
Speaker 1: you do it? Though? Because there's a good argument for
Speaker 1: scent control. Using scent control stuff, I like to say
Speaker 1: that it's a hoax and it is the biggest way
Speaker 1: for outdoor companies to sell you a product that you
Speaker 1: have no way of knowing if it works or not
Speaker 1: because you can't smell that good with your nose. It's
Speaker 1: the perfect it's a good business to be in. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's just true. I mean it's like I'm gonna sell
Speaker 1: you a product and you don't know if it works
Speaker 1: or not, and most of the time it doesn't because
Speaker 1: you're in sent control and deer still smell you. But
Speaker 1: you see what I'm saying. You know, baking soda works,
Speaker 1: and you know if you wash your clothes and laundry detergent,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know you're putting all kinds of You know,
Speaker 1: I've got some soap that's unscented and it smells less
Speaker 1: scented than my scented soap. Okay, let me tell you something.
Speaker 1: I will. You're you're worried about your clothes, the deer
Speaker 1: worried about your soul. Since when do you don't care
Speaker 1: about Listen? I don't even know who you are. Listen
Speaker 1: to this. Listen to this, Listen this a deer isn't
Speaker 1: scared of your shirt, is scared of you, and you
Speaker 1: smell like a human, So it would essentially be like putting,
Speaker 1: so you're trying to wash the human off of you.
Speaker 1: It would be essentially like taking a burlap sack and
Speaker 1: filling it full of cow dung and then being worried
Speaker 1: about the burlap sack like sent control on the burlap side.
Speaker 1: It's like, you're not that burlap sack is not gonna
Speaker 1: see Okay, okay, what if? What if instead of trying
Speaker 1: to wash the sent off, I just go like a
Speaker 1: full on fourteen year old boy and just blast myself
Speaker 1: with ax body spree. You can't smell the human for
Speaker 1: all the ax body sprea. Like this is cover that, yeah,
Speaker 1: cover set instead of this, we go cover set chocolate
Speaker 1: as now I do. I do believe in some cover sense.
Speaker 1: I've seen some cover sense that worked pretty good or
Speaker 1: confused or or slow deer's spook response down to this day.
Speaker 1: Every hunt this week, I try it out some new stuff,
Speaker 1: this Dan Fitzgerald, dear Dander, and I would I would
Speaker 1: pour it out on the ground underneath my stand so
Speaker 1: that when deer cut my wind, they would smell human,
Speaker 1: but they would also smell an attractant, a deer related
Speaker 1: attractant and synthetic stuff. And uh, I have seen that
Speaker 1: slow a deer's spook response down enough, and I've seen
Speaker 1: him walk through it to not necessarily with this stuff
Speaker 1: that I didn't see. It happened this week. Okay, So
Speaker 1: I've seen it work with dough estris back when we
Speaker 1: could use real dough estris and even the synthetic stuff.
Speaker 1: I've had a dough come directly down when I had
Speaker 1: poured a big swab of dough estris onto the ground.
Speaker 1: So my that dough sent strong, unnaturally strong dose sents
Speaker 1: on the ground. A deer cuts my wind. The dough
Speaker 1: just locks up and just goes into Holy cow, what's happening.
Speaker 1: I smell a human, but then she's like and I
Speaker 1: smell a deer and kind of freaks out for a
Speaker 1: while and then moves on through past your scenter. I've
Speaker 1: seen it happen. Not common most of the time they spook.
Speaker 1: I want to hear, that's the whole thing. I'm not.
Speaker 1: What I'm saying is not the whole truth. I know that.
Speaker 1: Let's hear. Why would you use sent control tell me
Speaker 1: what it would work if you're a terrible hunter. Is
Speaker 1: the reason I'm being honest with you. I mean, when
Speaker 1: I first started hunting, I really didn't even hardly know
Speaker 1: what a deer track looked like, you know, I just knew.
Speaker 1: Some guys told me about it, taught me how to
Speaker 1: shoot a bowl. They couldn't kill deer. So I looked
Speaker 1: at it like a chess game. I thought, this is
Speaker 1: gonna be like a chess game. And I thought, you know,
Speaker 1: I've gotta be clean. I gotta be able to shoot
Speaker 1: my bowl. But as time went on, I saw a
Speaker 1: very few deer that I spooked. I mean, I cannot.
Speaker 1: I had a big ten point. Then I knew where
Speaker 1: my win was going, and he came under my standing.
Speaker 1: By the way I was asleep, I was sound asleep,
Speaker 1: and I looked open. One eye had ever find me
Speaker 1: as I looked at it, and so I knew he
Speaker 1: was going straight into my wind. I mean, so I'm
Speaker 1: not a stupid about wind and about cent, and I
Speaker 1: knew he was gonna he was gonna spook in a minute,
Speaker 1: because I had a doge come in and hit my
Speaker 1: wind and I was only about eighteen feet up but anyway,
Speaker 1: if you're twenty to twenty four feet and you're in
Speaker 1: pretty flat ground, you can get away with lots of stuff.
Speaker 1: And usually when you're hunting big bucks, you don't know
Speaker 1: which way they're coming from. I mean, you think you know,
Speaker 1: but they'll surprise you. So why not be clean. If
Speaker 1: you've got the energy and the time and the desire
Speaker 1: to do it, maybe it'll work. Well, it wore, it
Speaker 1: will help. And if you listen to John, he says,
Speaker 1: if you're wearing a beard, you've got long hair, forget it.
Speaker 1: Go hunt however you want to, because it don't work.
Speaker 1: I would love to debate that guy. Hey, no, don't
Speaker 1: even say that, Clay. I mean, I mean this guy
Speaker 1: has killed. This guy is one of the best hunters
Speaker 1: in the stinking country. And I mean if you hunt
Speaker 1: thirty feet up, well, I mean, hey, you're you'd be
Speaker 1: taken on the wrong bulldog with this guy. I'm telling you,
Speaker 1: he knows his stuff. Now you know, you don't have
Speaker 1: to you don't have to do all this stuff, but
Speaker 1: it sure doesn't hurt anything, and a lot of times
Speaker 1: it helps. It's just it's just part of my Bailey wick.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I mean you can, you can go at it.
Speaker 1: So there's so many ways to skin a cat. Well,
Speaker 1: my my deal was I realized that I was spending
Speaker 1: you know, you only have so much energy in your
Speaker 1: life to spend towards hunting, and I was spending thirty
Speaker 1: of my energy towards scent control and it wasn't the
Speaker 1: limiting factor of my hunting. So I became a better
Speaker 1: hunter and in other places and spent less money more time. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I mean, if in the perfect world you would
Speaker 1: utilize some level of scent control and perhaps it would
Speaker 1: reduce your human odor. You know, if you study carbon
Speaker 1: and what it'll do, you almost know it works. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's into it. You know, it's just activated carbon. It's
Speaker 1: just just a crazy good. So if you understand what
Speaker 1: it's doing, and you understand how to activate it, and
Speaker 1: you got yourself covered, but you don't cover your head, well,
Speaker 1: I mean they're gonna smell you, so you cover your head.
Speaker 1: Then you go, well is your face covered? So I
Speaker 1: don't go to that extreme. I don't cover my face.
Speaker 1: But there's so many different ways to do it. And
Speaker 1: talking about this, so you know who knows which is
Speaker 1: no beard, no hair, no beard, no hair, and cover
Speaker 1: your entire body and wear rubber boots. And if you
Speaker 1: got the energy to do it, it doesn't you know
Speaker 1: what a long time ago and I've been doing. And
Speaker 1: what Mark Kenyon says, he says, it's simply and it's
Speaker 1: the same thing Dad says, is that if it might
Speaker 1: help you, if it might make a buck stay there
Speaker 1: for five seconds longer before he spooks. Because there is
Speaker 1: an argument to be made, and I've yet to hear
Speaker 1: a single human give me a scientific reason that this
Speaker 1: is true. And I don't believe it that a smaller
Speaker 1: amount of scent would spook a deer any more than
Speaker 1: a larger amount of sent Because that's that is the
Speaker 1: that is the thing that we're saying. We're saying you can't.
Speaker 1: We're saying like, if you use sent control products, then
Speaker 1: you're reducing your human odor. So so a deer comes
Speaker 1: down when and he still smells a human, he just
Speaker 1: smells less human. What's less volume. It's a gas, so
Speaker 1: it dissipates the further out. Again, what Clay Nucom says
Speaker 1: is that it don't matter if he smells a little
Speaker 1: human or a lot of human, He's gonna spook just
Speaker 1: the same about nine of the time I made that
Speaker 1: number up, number one, number two. Do you see what
Speaker 1: I'm saying? Though, I see what you're saying. But the
Speaker 1: more the less there is, and the further it dissipates,
Speaker 1: there's a chance he might nothing. Well, I'm going off.
Speaker 1: I'm going off. I want to say decades, probably thirteen
Speaker 1: years of messing around with scent control, and I have
Speaker 1: used the Ozone products, okay, just begged them to work.
Speaker 1: I mean, I wanted Ozone to work so bad because
Speaker 1: it was gonna be my silver bullet. And it just
Speaker 1: I have dear smell me all the time. When I
Speaker 1: use Ozon. It makes an odor, It creates its own odor,
Speaker 1: and it might not be a human odor, but a
Speaker 1: buck goes, Wait a minute, I've never smelt that before,
Speaker 1: So I'm getting out of here. I mean, and I've
Speaker 1: I've heard that before. It definitely you you smell it
Speaker 1: when it's going. And I heard a real good bow hunter,
Speaker 1: a guy that I know that's killed three deer, white
Speaker 1: til deer with a bow, who's killed multiple two deer.
Speaker 1: And you'd never know his name. He's not he's not
Speaker 1: a public figure. And he told me that Ozon is
Speaker 1: a joke. I mean, he's a stone cold killer. You
Speaker 1: know who. You know who I'm talking about, And uh,
Speaker 1: I mean he's the one. He said that stuffs a joke.
Speaker 1: And then I I've tried it for several years. My
Speaker 1: point is, and I don't I don't have any trouble. Uh,
Speaker 1: I mean this is what I think. Like now, I
Speaker 1: still you will see me. I I used scent shield
Speaker 1: this week, sprayed down my clothes a little bit. Just
Speaker 1: I call it witchcraft because you're doing something that you
Speaker 1: know doesn't work. Post baking soda witchcraft banking soda number
Speaker 1: one is in the Bible, so you're gonna want to
Speaker 1: think about that. I think witchcraft is too for what
Speaker 1: it's worth. You know what Gary says about the activated
Speaker 1: charcole is true. I have a friend who has a
Speaker 1: propensity to make a pretty significant odor himself. Have you
Speaker 1: guys ever heard of the product? Subtle but Negative are
Speaker 1: activated carbon sheets that go in your drawers. Wow, we're
Speaker 1: talking furniture drawers or not furniture. Hey, I love I
Speaker 1: love the sick control conversation. I don't want it to
Speaker 1: sound like I'm trying to stir up trouble, but it
Speaker 1: bothers me that there's no way that we can prove it.
Speaker 1: I mean I could, I could do a whole I
Speaker 1: could talk to you for an hour, NonStop about all
Speaker 1: the reasons why commercial scent control products pretty much don't work.
Speaker 1: So anyway, I know I'm burning all these bridges. I
Speaker 1: would I would care about the commercial ones. It's wash
Speaker 1: your clothes and baking soda. Use some of that soap
Speaker 1: that doesn't have a whole lot of it. I dare
Speaker 1: you to put baking soda in my beard. Hey, let's
Speaker 1: talk about Borderline's jaguars. Did they use a lot of
Speaker 1: seat control? You know what? There's there is some theories
Speaker 1: on predators ability to minimize scent. You know, in the
Speaker 1: animal kingdom, animals use scent for communication, So like a
Speaker 1: buck in the rut, he increases his odor so that
Speaker 1: his scent picture is bigger, and YadA, YadA, and uh,
Speaker 1: I've heard it said that the predators can kind of
Speaker 1: like turn down their scent. We know that a white
Speaker 1: tail fawn and these fonds when they're born, they're born
Speaker 1: like basically scentless, um less, older, and their mother cleans
Speaker 1: them for a minute so less oder pequal's advantage. I
Speaker 1: just disproved myself. Hey, go ahead, Okay, here's here's what
Speaker 1: I would say. I would love for someone to convince
Speaker 1: me that I'm wrong, So please do That's what I'm saying, Well,
Speaker 1: why is the burden on us? But I mean it's
Speaker 1: reviews are going to go wild? Yes, yes, I would
Speaker 1: love for someone with a scientific answer that had thirty
Speaker 1: years of experience that wasn't on on their own uh
Speaker 1: spurious correlations. I was about to defend Clay. I don't
Speaker 1: know if I want to do it now, but I
Speaker 1: was gonna say, like in the defensive you're you're bringing
Speaker 1: that up. The reduction is sent is to uh stave
Speaker 1: off predators, not to be a predat there. So you're
Speaker 1: saying that the the funds have less of a sense,
Speaker 1: that they are less susceptible to predators, are less detectable,
Speaker 1: rather than you being the predator. Reducing your sense you're
Speaker 1: you're right and reducing your sin is good. It's gonna
Speaker 1: be good. One more flip flop. I can't. I don't
Speaker 1: even know who you are. Hey, Borderland's Jaguars, Dan, what
Speaker 1: do you think? I thought it was great? I loved
Speaker 1: hearing more from Warner Glenn. I think that was fantastic.
Speaker 1: I see anytime you hear that guy. I think it
Speaker 1: was very interesting too. Here just the whole idea of
Speaker 1: there being an animal out there that's basically called the
Speaker 1: one that eats us psychologically that well, that doesn't happen
Speaker 1: a whole lot to people and an animal. I mean,
Speaker 1: there's kind of these freaking encounters, but there's an animal
Speaker 1: that's name that that's a fear of us. Yeah, either
Speaker 1: of us? Pretty wild. I thought you were just being dramatic.
Speaker 1: I didn't realize until I listened to the podcast, but
Speaker 1: I saw that on the title of the when it
Speaker 1: popped up on my phone, and I thought it's a
Speaker 1: little melodramatically. It's what the that tribe in Amazon they
Speaker 1: called the jaguaria. They called it either of us. But
Speaker 1: in in modern times, in at least in the United States,
Speaker 1: there's never I'm quite certain there's never been a documented
Speaker 1: jaguar attack in the United States, but down in Central
Speaker 1: America and stuff like, it's it's for real, a lot
Speaker 1: of the American jaguars vegan, h Josh, what do you think, Well,
Speaker 1: I thought it was I thought it was really good.
Speaker 1: I love hearing the science, but you know, I'm kind
Speaker 1: of with Dan too. I love hearing Warner that guys
Speaker 1: like that are are disappearing and to uh hear stories
Speaker 1: about That's what. The thing that I like about him
Speaker 1: is the pursuit that he has of of the thing
Speaker 1: that he does with with uh for the mountain lions
Speaker 1: and you know, finding the jaguar and stuff, but to
Speaker 1: really draw in family, to to talk about bringing people together,
Speaker 1: just the you can tell the passion and the care
Speaker 1: and the concern that he has for the animal, the way,
Speaker 1: just the way that he talked about it with such reverence.
Speaker 1: He's not a He's not a doesn't have a blood
Speaker 1: lust for animals. He really has a passion for these
Speaker 1: animals and you know, conservation and an awareness. Even even
Speaker 1: the way that he's like, I didn't know if I
Speaker 1: should go public with this, you know, just shows an
Speaker 1: incredible respect for the people around him, for the animal itself,
Speaker 1: for conservation, and it was it was very very interesting
Speaker 1: to listen to. I really enjoyed it. I wanna I
Speaker 1: want to clarify something, so I put this picture so
Speaker 1: in Warner Glenn's house, he has a huge probably I
Speaker 1: bet it's six ft long five ft tall, original painting
Speaker 1: that a really good artist did of the picture that
Speaker 1: he took at the jaguars. The jaguars in the pose
Speaker 1: that he saw the jaguar, but the artist, you know,
Speaker 1: put a little Warner Glenn down in the corner riding
Speaker 1: his mule. Yeah. If you see that, there's Warner Glenn
Speaker 1: down there with a dog, and um um I had
Speaker 1: so I made an Instagram post and said, Warner Glenn
Speaker 1: documented the first live jaguar in the United States. And people,
Speaker 1: several people were like, uh no, he didn't. There were
Speaker 1: so many killed in Arizona and so many killed in Texas,
Speaker 1: and people were like, you may want to go back
Speaker 1: and read that, and I was like, okay, listen to
Speaker 1: what was said. He documented the first live one. So
Speaker 1: if someone shows up with a dead one in the
Speaker 1: back of his truck, that is not a documentation of
Speaker 1: a live jaguar. That is a dead jaguar. It was
Speaker 1: the first documentation of a live jaguar in the United States,
Speaker 1: meaning he took a photo, went back and showed the
Speaker 1: photo to people, and that animal was still alive. So
Speaker 1: that's all it was. But they didn't. They hadn't documented
Speaker 1: one in what's the lifespan of a jaguar? You know,
Speaker 1: that's a good question. I don't know. Probably probably about
Speaker 1: like black bear. I doubt they lived twenty years in
Speaker 1: the wild. Probably like a cat. I mean, like like
Speaker 1: a tom cat, you know, lived twelve years or something.
Speaker 1: Just this idea that there could be a animal like
Speaker 1: that that lives. I mean, a jaguar is a jungle animal.
Speaker 1: It's just such a wild thing. What do you think
Speaker 1: of it? Dan? Oh? I thought it was very interesting,
Speaker 1: and uh, of course Warner Glenn was interesting to listen to.
Speaker 1: And you know, he wouldn't satisfied with your comment that
Speaker 1: the first live jaguar that was seen. He he broke
Speaker 1: it down further. What did he say? He said, I
Speaker 1: can't remember really correct, but he said, it's alive, it
Speaker 1: was wild, it was wild in nature. In other words,
Speaker 1: you can see them in captivity. You could see dead first.
Speaker 1: So so he he wasn't happy with your simple alive.
Speaker 1: He went into he said, wild jaguars. He did two
Speaker 1: or three different breakpounds, so I mean he he eliminated
Speaker 1: the zoo, he you know, so I thought, you know,
Speaker 1: he's he's a detailed guy. I mean he's he's really
Speaker 1: paying attention to details. But what caught me about the
Speaker 1: whole thing was kind of surprising, really as much interesting
Speaker 1: content as there was. But what stuck with me is
Speaker 1: the fringe animals. I mean, to me, that was just
Speaker 1: like Daniel Boone all over again. I mean, you've got
Speaker 1: an animal that's that has been created this way, where
Speaker 1: you got a bunch of little crazy guys out here
Speaker 1: and their job is to go find the boundary of
Speaker 1: where we can survive. I mean, I've never even heard
Speaker 1: thought of that. I mean, that's crazy in the way
Speaker 1: you brought it out. These were like the pot what
Speaker 1: you used the frontiers? Yeah, and I go why that
Speaker 1: he was pretty thinking cool you think about Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: glad you said that. Think about it. A jaguar, he
Speaker 1: has no concept that he is on the northern range
Speaker 1: of his species. He doesn't know that in Brazil and
Speaker 1: in Bolivia and Venezuela is the core of his Like
Speaker 1: if I went down there, there'd be a bunch of
Speaker 1: us there. This jaguars just living his life. And he
Speaker 1: goes north into the United States and there just comes
Speaker 1: a point when he's just like, I gotta go back south,
Speaker 1: you know, and there there might be some functional things
Speaker 1: that happen, like he runs into cities less game, more arid,
Speaker 1: you know, whatever the conditions. But but he has this,
Speaker 1: he has this metric inside of him that's default where
Speaker 1: there comes a point when he goes no further and
Speaker 1: he goes back to just about every time I get
Speaker 1: to our in laws. Every time we get to my
Speaker 1: in laws house, it's like, no go back south South
Speaker 1: in Michigan. Well I play. It's a it's really a
Speaker 1: tremendous survival technique. It's like, you know, we can all
Speaker 1: live here in this tremendous jungle forest and just you know,
Speaker 1: be having a great life. But what happens if the
Speaker 1: forest has gone? So, I mean I need to expand
Speaker 1: my territory where that we can survive regardless of what happens.
Speaker 1: And so it's in eight within some of those guys
Speaker 1: to be the frontiersman that's gonna go out in and
Speaker 1: find that fringe area, find out where the border is,
Speaker 1: and and it's that's how they stay alive. That's how
Speaker 1: they have survived. Well, there there have been jaguars documented
Speaker 1: as far north as the Grand Canyon And hey, did
Speaker 1: you hear me call out you and Aunt Ali? Oh? Yeah, Hey, okay,
Speaker 1: I I've got I gotta say this in this book.
Speaker 1: So I wanted to talk about this book. I wasn't
Speaker 1: able to. I just couldn't fit it into the to
Speaker 1: the Beargrease podcast. But there's a book called Borderland's Jaguars
Speaker 1: by David E. Brown and Carlos Lopez Gonzalez. Incredible book.
Speaker 1: Sometimes you pick up these smaller books like this and
Speaker 1: you know you might be unimpressed with kind of the
Speaker 1: writing and the structure of the book. This is like
Speaker 1: a top notch, a top shelf academic book. Most of
Speaker 1: the information that I got from the for the podcast
Speaker 1: came from this book, Borderland's Jaguars. You mean yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that was good. That was really good. Where did you
Speaker 1: hear about Deli from? Yeah? I've heard about Deli for years.
Speaker 1: If you're in the hound community, you've heard of daily.
Speaker 1: I thought he was hands down my favorite part of
Speaker 1: this podcast storytelling. I was curious and when when he started,
Speaker 1: I just thought, we're on earthically, where does he find
Speaker 1: these people? Did you hear about him? I bet? I
Speaker 1: bet you liked him? That, did you. Yeah, yeah, he
Speaker 1: was so Daily was is considered, you know, one of
Speaker 1: the best line hunters of all time. And it's so
Speaker 1: hard to say. I told uh. I told Steve or
Speaker 1: Nello the other day about Warner Glenn before I interviewed him,
Speaker 1: and I said, Warner Glenn is one of the best
Speaker 1: dry ground line and hunters in the world. And Steve said,
Speaker 1: why did dry ground line hunters get to why did
Speaker 1: they all of a sudden get like they're the best
Speaker 1: in the world. And I stopped. I was like, you
Speaker 1: know of them, We say that all the time. But
Speaker 1: Daily is known as this great hunter. But he was.
Speaker 1: He was for sure known as the lead man in
Speaker 1: catching jaguars in Mexico. And I mean, if you want
Speaker 1: to talk about some wild stuff, talk about going to
Speaker 1: Mexico with a pack of hounds and these custom boats.
Speaker 1: Did you hear him say, we had these little canoes
Speaker 1: actually a flat bottom boat with plywood and plastic Glassless
Speaker 1: called it plastic glass, he told her. I said it
Speaker 1: on the podcast. But he told the story hunting story
Speaker 1: like he was calling a horse race. We were coming
Speaker 1: down through there and the dogs said, that little curved
Speaker 1: dog should he hippy ippy ippy it and I knew
Speaker 1: that that jaggar was a coming. And then we went
Speaker 1: down through there and there he was up in a tree.
Speaker 1: And now while farmer he was, I mean he his
Speaker 1: his voice would ascend and then decent. He did not
Speaker 1: sound Texan. He sounded straight out of Arkansas. Yeah, I thought,
Speaker 1: what a guy. Hey, they're fifteen hours of tapes that
Speaker 1: you can get of Deli telling Stories Brett Vaughan. You
Speaker 1: can buy it from my buddy, Brett Vaughan hundred born
Speaker 1: hundred years too late as his Instagram handle. I mean,
Speaker 1: I have the tapes. Brett just sent me some, but
Speaker 1: I haven't listened to him all. That jaguar call was something,
Speaker 1: wasn't it. It sounded good, empty melan And and what
Speaker 1: did he pull through a piece of leather with rosin,
Speaker 1: some kind of rosin on the leather? Ty? What? What
Speaker 1: did anything stand out to you inside of it? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I definitely can relate to what everyone else has said
Speaker 1: also thought about just conceptually, there comes a point because
Speaker 1: we you know, as the jaguar has kind of gone
Speaker 1: up and further away out of Mexico, you know, it's
Speaker 1: strong in the iconography of Mexico, but you don't see
Speaker 1: it at that borderline. And you mentioned how it's like
Speaker 1: when you see something rare but it's not super rare,
Speaker 1: there's a place for it in the iconography, and it's
Speaker 1: like this like treasured moment. You saw the thing that
Speaker 1: we don't get to see a lot of, and then
Speaker 1: when it's super rare, to your point, it's just like
Speaker 1: somebody shoves back up to the camp finders, like I
Speaker 1: saw jaguar and just like shut up talking about you
Speaker 1: ate some old mushrooms. You didn't see it, jaguaron, And
Speaker 1: so it doesn't even make it into the iconography. And
Speaker 1: so that was really cool to tie that back even
Speaker 1: to the black Panther like storylines from all the way
Speaker 1: back with the first Burgrease and and so like just
Speaker 1: looking at how wildlife and experiences are are like captured
Speaker 1: within cultural cultural things, and then like there even comes
Speaker 1: a point where it stops like it it becomes so
Speaker 1: rare that it just doesn't even get captured or it's
Speaker 1: even considered like it's yeah, it's not even sacred, it's
Speaker 1: just not plausible. So why even you know, there's a
Speaker 1: lot to be there's a lot that's weighing on the
Speaker 1: fact that the tribes of the southwestern United States don't
Speaker 1: have jaguar iconography and their culture because there are groups
Speaker 1: of there there there there's a group right now and
Speaker 1: I don't know all the details of it, but they
Speaker 1: have talked about jaguar quote reintroduction. There's a group that
Speaker 1: believes that there can be that that southwest Arizona, Southeast Arizona,
Speaker 1: southwest New Mexico could could hold sixty two hundred jaguars,
Speaker 1: and they talked about releasing them into that area, which
Speaker 1: would which would be wild in in the in the
Speaker 1: the biologist and everybody that I know is saying, like,
Speaker 1: why would we do that? They've never been here that much.
Speaker 1: And that's what that's what Jim Heffelfinger was saying, is
Speaker 1: he's like, and Jim Heffelfinger is a biologist, and he's like,
Speaker 1: there's just evidence that they were ever here in great number.
Speaker 1: And what Warner Glenn was saying was that if that happens,
Speaker 1: it just shuts down that part of the world for ranchers,
Speaker 1: for hunters, for people living off the land. And his
Speaker 1: point was well taken, and I liked it, and I
Speaker 1: wanted to put it in there, as he said, yeah,
Speaker 1: let's protect that cat, put it on the endangered species list,
Speaker 1: which it has been for forty years, fifty years, whatever.
Speaker 1: But he said that critical habitat regulation lock stuff down
Speaker 1: so much. If de incentivizes people from even wanting them there,
Speaker 1: he said, then people shoot showing it may sound normal
Speaker 1: to think, well, of course Warner Glenn didn't shoot that jaguar.
Speaker 1: It wasn't normal. I mean people shoot jaguars. I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't have proof of that, but there's in Mexico
Speaker 1: they for sure due to this day. I mean, that's
Speaker 1: the biggest threat to him down in Mexico. Is like
Speaker 1: Jim said, people these small time cattle ranchers jars call them.
Speaker 1: Was it I want to say, what you call it?
Speaker 1: Reciprocity killings or something like italiatory. Yeah, like that even
Speaker 1: that kind of colors the nature of it when you
Speaker 1: recognize like they're not killing it for sport, they're killing
Speaker 1: it for retaliation because it's coming on their livelihood. But
Speaker 1: then they're just like, no, we gotta protect them. It's
Speaker 1: just like there's a there's definitely pretty sure that the
Speaker 1: Maupo Borderlands Group and I could be wrong on this,
Speaker 1: alex Um is. Uh, there are there are groups. There
Speaker 1: are groups that pay landowners if they lose livestock to jaguars,
Speaker 1: like like so it's like, Okay, you lost a cow,
Speaker 1: don't go kill the jaguar. Let me pay you for
Speaker 1: the cow the replacement costs for it. So that is
Speaker 1: a big part of kind of the creative conservation that's
Speaker 1: going on. But where does that funding come from? And um,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not a jaguar expert. I learned all
Speaker 1: this in the last two months, you know. I mean,
Speaker 1: so it's not like this is something this is all
Speaker 1: new to me as well. But it's fascinating that we
Speaker 1: have a big cat in in North America that is
Speaker 1: like that. Did you notice that when you asked Jim
Speaker 1: if he had ever seen any documentation for a black panther,
Speaker 1: he did not directly answer the question. M M. Do
Speaker 1: you think he had? You think he did? I mean,
Speaker 1: simple no, Hey, I now remember what I was gonna
Speaker 1: say about this book. I'm kind of just going off
Speaker 1: memory here. In this book, there is a map of
Speaker 1: the United States and it was made a long long
Speaker 1: time ago, and it's shaded in places where jaguars were
Speaker 1: in the United States during this time. The entire state
Speaker 1: of Texas was I gotta find it because it wasn't
Speaker 1: the entire state of Texas. But the jaguar distribution from
Speaker 1: this map, and and biologists now would say that that
Speaker 1: map asn't accurate, but back in those days they believed it.
Speaker 1: And the jaguar distribution went up and almost touched Arkansas.
Speaker 1: M So if there was a melanistic jaguar, you could
Speaker 1: have almost been an in the alley. I mean, you
Speaker 1: can't argue with you. Okay, they saw one? How long
Speaker 1: was its tail? How long did its tail? Sound? Well?
Speaker 1: It said it like it was the length of their body?
Speaker 1: What is had I not? Had I not heard that? Though?
Speaker 1: Like I'm from Rancis Passage. Here it is right here?
Speaker 1: Look here, okay, okay. Range of Jaguar in North and
Speaker 1: Central America nineteen three, with the aid of the U.
Speaker 1: S Biological Survey, that jaguar range comes up all the
Speaker 1: way into southeast Oklahoma and touches the Red River in
Speaker 1: southwest Arkansas. I mean, read it and weep. Alex. Did
Speaker 1: you ever seen Alex a hat? We're bros. I haven't.
Speaker 1: I don't have hats. Anymore there could, Okay, but Jim
Speaker 1: Halfelfinger says that there has never been a melanistic jaguar
Speaker 1: documented below deep deep South Mexico. There's yeah, yeah, there's
Speaker 1: never been one above it. So black jaguar. Economy Stretch.
Speaker 1: So Rancis Past, Texas is where I grew up, and
Speaker 1: the high school mascot was panthers as panthers, and the
Speaker 1: panther was a black panthers. You know, a person in
Speaker 1: a black panthers it was in the case. But here's
Speaker 1: what's funny is in the most like remarkably South Texas
Speaker 1: thing ever, there was a seafood restaurant called the Big Fisherman,
Speaker 1: and outside the Big Fisherman was whoever owned that place
Speaker 1: was basically like Tiger King from the nineteen eighties, because
Speaker 1: there was a ton of wild animals and big cats
Speaker 1: and everything. And had you asked me before you told
Speaker 1: me there weren't black panthers, I said, yeah, I saw
Speaker 1: in a cage outside of the Big Fisherman waiting to
Speaker 1: go in and eat fried shrimp. But like, just because
Speaker 1: the iconography of it was still built into my head,
Speaker 1: my high school mascot was a black panther there was
Speaker 1: black panthers. They're at the Big Fisherman. Like all of
Speaker 1: this was just baked in. It's just like this is
Speaker 1: what it was. And so now I'm just like buried
Speaker 1: in lies. I don't know what's the truth anymore. And
Speaker 1: you know what, listen to these podcasts again reminded me
Speaker 1: of something that I had completely forgotten about circa nineteen
Speaker 1: eighties six this my mom worked with this guy. My
Speaker 1: mom worked for DuPont in Texas in in Clear Clear Lake, Texas,
Speaker 1: I think Baytown, Texas. This guy we lived in this
Speaker 1: town called Alvin, Texas, and this guy lived there. He
Speaker 1: and he was a big like kind of he had
Speaker 1: he had like Clydesdale's and he had some some other
Speaker 1: interesting and I think he had some al pacas and stuff.
Speaker 1: But he had a jaguar. He had a jaguar and
Speaker 1: he had a conversion van and he'd ride around with
Speaker 1: this pet jaguar in a cage in the back of
Speaker 1: his van. I saw it with my own eyes, that
Speaker 1: underwear not in No, he the cat didn't care what
Speaker 1: I felt like, how long and or curly was his mullet.
Speaker 1: He wasn't. Actually, he was kind of like kind of
Speaker 1: looked like Grizzly Adams, and he was he was kind
Speaker 1: of a cool guy. He'd he'd put his team of
Speaker 1: Clyde Sdales together and he'd ride this wagon with Clyde
Speaker 1: Sdales through town. Yeah, but yeah, he had a jaguar.
Speaker 1: I remember going. He said, you want to see my cat?
Speaker 1: And he took me. Oh wow, this is not the
Speaker 1: kind of guy you wanna. How old were you? I
Speaker 1: was ten? And uh yeah. He'd opened up the back
Speaker 1: of his van and he had a cape like a
Speaker 1: kind of like a dog kennel in there with a
Speaker 1: jaguar in there. Impressive. Impressive. Hey, Okay, I think I
Speaker 1: think it's time. I've been sitting on some original music
Speaker 1: for some time, deep in the bowels of your soul. Hey, okay,
Speaker 1: me and me and Josh and Tye are gonna play
Speaker 1: some music. Okay. I wrote a song I want to
Speaker 1: publicly say this that has diaguars in it. I have
Speaker 1: no dreams of being a talented musician. Okay. We like
Speaker 1: to play music because it's just fun. I have seen
Speaker 1: some people that like take music kind of serious and
Speaker 1: maybe they're not very good, and you're like, so that's
Speaker 1: not me. Okay. I realized I'm not very good. Okay,
Speaker 1: but I do. I do like music and I enjoy
Speaker 1: playing it. I wrote a serious song about Warner Glenn
Speaker 1: and I what do you mean by serious? I mean,
Speaker 1: like all the other songs that we've really like, like
Speaker 1: Oh Captain, Oh Captain, and the Bulldozer song, like they
Speaker 1: were parodies. They were jokes. It was funny. But the
Speaker 1: Captain song was great, it was great. Well, those were
Speaker 1: those were jokes songs. And so there's there's a line
Speaker 1: that you crossed when you start writing serious songs, essentially
Speaker 1: saying all this for me, I you know, Clay is
Speaker 1: just about an inch away. When you started writing a
Speaker 1: serious song. I was concerned that maybe I had a
Speaker 1: YouTube diva on in my house, and I got super nervous.
Speaker 1: I gonna started doing this, but this is that's not
Speaker 1: what he's doing here. So I wrote a song. It's
Speaker 1: called the Ballad of Warner Glenn. Okay, And I didn't
Speaker 1: I don't feel like I had a choice to write
Speaker 1: this song. I really was impact by meeting Warren Glenn
Speaker 1: and I sat down and wrote the song and like
Speaker 1: a very short amount of time and Todd is going
Speaker 1: to play the stand up bass and Josh is gonna
Speaker 1: help a on guitar and we're gonna sing this song. Dan,
Speaker 1: you're ready here, I'm ready. I could just stare at well.
Speaker 1: Dan's the only one that hadn't heard it. Dad's heard
Speaker 1: it a little bit. But uh yeah, we're gonna do it.
Speaker 1: I can get out to Cowbell if y'all want me to.
Speaker 1: We're down south on the border of Mexico, rattle snakes,
Speaker 1: lots of bendets, where the cactus grow, dirt and spurs,
Speaker 1: fed the hounds and let him go as a boy.
Speaker 1: Argent told him where the Big Tom's Road, Open country
Speaker 1: where the jaguar strolls saddle is six hand you when
Speaker 1: the desert sun blows. Nobody ever told him this wretched
Speaker 1: life was a hard road to hold. Hiding the rising
Speaker 1: sun behind the cheer of cowas folds, He's mounted and
Speaker 1: moving and going for an all day mule back stroll,
Speaker 1: open country where the jaguar strolls lyne track in the dirt,
Speaker 1: seven miles into Where did he go? Got a pack
Speaker 1: of wild walker dogs that are philosophers like the road hounds,
Speaker 1: worth the dirt like a farmer works as rose up
Speaker 1: the canyon, round the rock, chasing the ghosts of a shadow,
Speaker 1: Open country where the jaguar strolls. The only catching if
Speaker 1: he crosses the plateau, chase him over the rim rock,
Speaker 1: and old hood pays him in a hole. It's not
Speaker 1: a line he seeks, but a wildness he can't control.
Speaker 1: Who I'm talking about? This corner of Glen and the
Speaker 1: black Crow, Open country where the jaguar strolls. Open country
Speaker 1: and sage makes the old man's heart grow a poet
Speaker 1: in the saddle, but his words don't overflow. He fought
Speaker 1: a long man and feeded guilty just so you know,
Speaker 1: sweat some bullets and sleepless nights. But they let him
Speaker 1: go Open country where the jaguar strolls. Unlesser man would
Speaker 1: have thrown another blow. But Warner new to solve his problems,
Speaker 1: he had to grow. Invited his enemies to the table
Speaker 1: and their faces glowed, broke some bread, all were fed,
Speaker 1: and the rooster crowd Open country where the jaguash rolls. Hey,
Speaker 1: that was awesome, open country. Hey. I want to read
Speaker 1: these lyrics because if you, if you followed along on
Speaker 1: these three podcasts, it makes this is this is a
Speaker 1: story it's a story of a lion hunt the way
Speaker 1: down south on the border of Mexico. I mean Warner
Speaker 1: Glenn literally lives on the Mexican border. Rattlesnakes, lots of
Speaker 1: band deetles where the cactus grow. He gets, He gets horses,
Speaker 1: snake bit and dogs snake. When I was down there
Speaker 1: with him for a day, he was like, watch out
Speaker 1: for rattlesnakes, dirt and spurs, feed the hounds and let
Speaker 1: him go. I mean, the man's life revolves around his dogs.
Speaker 1: And I noted when he wrote his mule just on
Speaker 1: an average day, like when I rode with him, he
Speaker 1: put on his spurs, which I don't always wear my spurs,
Speaker 1: but he put on his spurs, dirt and spurs, feed
Speaker 1: the hounds and let him go. And as a boy,
Speaker 1: Marvin taught him where the big Tom's rove. Marvin is
Speaker 1: his dad, and Marvin that he hunts the same ground
Speaker 1: as dad did. I mean he he the exact same ground. Um.
Speaker 1: And then open country where the jaguar stroll. That's the
Speaker 1: that's the chorus. Open country is the phrase that they like.
Speaker 1: When I went down there, I heard multiple people say
Speaker 1: open country, and then I tuned in. I was like, Ah,
Speaker 1: that's what you guys say. That that means something their
Speaker 1: books called open country. Warner says it all the time,
Speaker 1: open country where the jaguar stroll. It defines that landscape.
Speaker 1: This this visitor from the south satella six hand mule
Speaker 1: when the desert sun glows, so that means early in
Speaker 1: the morning. Nobody ever told him the stretched life was
Speaker 1: a hard road to home. Man. I'll tell you what.
Speaker 1: When I think of a guy like Warner, Glenn hunting
Speaker 1: as long as he has, I think about then I
Speaker 1: said it on the podcast, but I think about the
Speaker 1: number of times he hooked up his trailer in the dark,
Speaker 1: woke up at two literally two am to go feed
Speaker 1: his mules lotus dogs, drive two hours, get the mules out,
Speaker 1: and then be where he needs to go by sunrise
Speaker 1: to look for a track, hiding the rising sun behind
Speaker 1: the Cherrica was folds. Warner is one of these guys
Speaker 1: that wakes up like early every single day Cherracha was
Speaker 1: as the mountains that they live in and hunt, so
Speaker 1: hiding the rising sun behind the cheer cause fold. He's
Speaker 1: mounted and moving and going for an all day buble
Speaker 1: back stroll. Line, tracking the dirt seven miles in, But
Speaker 1: where did he go? They ride a tremendous amount, you
Speaker 1: know when they're riding these on these hunts. And this
Speaker 1: is my favorite line. He's got a pack of white
Speaker 1: walker dogs that are philosophers, like the row. Hounds worked
Speaker 1: the dirt like a farmer works as Rose up a canyon,
Speaker 1: around the rock, chasing the ghost of a shadow. I
Speaker 1: like that line. A lot hounds worked the dirt like
Speaker 1: a farmer works as rose. Yeah, they only catch him
Speaker 1: if he crosses the plateau, chasing him over the rim rock,
Speaker 1: and old Hook bays him in the whole. Hook is
Speaker 1: his favorite dog, the twelve year old dog. You know,
Speaker 1: it's not a line he seeks, but a wildness he
Speaker 1: can't control. I think that's true. I mean, like when
Speaker 1: I when I think of the things that I'm after,
Speaker 1: like a big buck in a mountain, I mean like
Speaker 1: I want antlers, I want meat, But really what I
Speaker 1: want to do is interact with a wild place. That's
Speaker 1: really what you're after, you know, And in a in
Speaker 1: a hunter, being able to interact with a wild place
Speaker 1: by taking something from it is like super human and
Speaker 1: super intimate. Um. So it's not a line he steaks,
Speaker 1: but a wildness he can't control. Who I'm talking about
Speaker 1: is Warner Glenn the black crow? What's the black crow? Where?
Speaker 1: Who I'm talking about his Warner Glen and the black Crow.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying Warner Glenn is like he's like part
Speaker 1: of the landscape, like a black crow. Just that's right.
Speaker 1: Open country and stage makes the old man's heart grow
Speaker 1: a poet in the saddle. But his words don't know.
Speaker 1: That was my other favorite line. Yeah, favorite line. He
Speaker 1: followed all man and pleaded guilty, just so you know it.
Speaker 1: Sweat some bullets and sleepless nights, but they let him go.
Speaker 1: What good cowboys story doesn't have a little squad part.
Speaker 1: It's about a quarter country, so a lesser man with
Speaker 1: throwing another blow. But Warner new to solve his problems,
Speaker 1: he had to grow, invite his enemies to the table,
Speaker 1: and the faces glowed broken bread all were fed in
Speaker 1: the rooster croad. I like that last, that last chorus.
Speaker 1: First we're uh yeah, we're done with the Warner Glenn series.
Speaker 1: So thanks Warner Glenn. Yeah yeah, it was good, really good,
Speaker 1: really good. I hope he lives a lot longer. He
Speaker 1: talked about I remember talking about this might be our
Speaker 1: last season him and old Dog. Yeah, I have my doubts.
Speaker 1: He's got a lot of life lift him. I can
Speaker 1: tell you that closing thoughts, Dan that Warner Glenn is
Speaker 1: pretty concerned about scent control covers the dogs in baking soda.
Speaker 1: Uh Ti, thanks for coming man, Yeah, you bet. I
Speaker 1: was glad to do it, and I've enjoyed the series
Speaker 1: on Warner Glenn for sure. He's he's a He's a
Speaker 1: kind of person that hearing about their life like just
Speaker 1: kind of sparks sparks in you a desire to get
Speaker 1: out there and do it more and not get kind
Speaker 1: of caught up. You know, I'm uh, I hunt and everything,
Speaker 1: but I'm on a computer my almost you know, all
Speaker 1: my working day and everything, and there's there's something in
Speaker 1: you that's not fulfilled. And so to hear about people
Speaker 1: who make their living that kind of way, it's just like,
Speaker 1: you know, that's that may not be for me, but
Speaker 1: it definitely drives me to want to make sure that
Speaker 1: I'm staying in touch with the things that that are
Speaker 1: tied to that so that I'm not just kind of
Speaker 1: getting caught up in computers and college football and such nonsense.
Speaker 1: Dad thoughts, Oh, it's just awesome, you know, great guy
Speaker 1: legend in a neat animal. Love the animal, the big head,
Speaker 1: the strong jawl, can bend a what a half inch?
Speaker 1: Half Still I'm going uh huh, it likes to eat us.
Speaker 1: So very interesting, very very even formative. Hey, the next
Speaker 1: Burgar's podcasts are gonna be really cool. More coming. I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna tell you what it is, though. Thankfully, guys
Speaker 1: want to call me, I'll tell you. Yeah, Josh, Josh
Speaker 1: was there? Keep the Wild Places wild? Hey we miss Brent?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, come back to Yeah Brent, I forgot to
Speaker 1: say Brent wasn't here. Yeah, yeah, and uh Warner Glenn's
Speaker 1: daughter was extremely interesting. Yeah I enjoyed a Yeah, Kelly,
Speaker 1: yeah for sure. All right, thank you guys. Sent control
Speaker 1: or no sent control, Love you all,