1 00:00:01,080 --> 00:00:04,080 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class from house 2 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 1: stuff Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:17,239 Speaker 1: I am tra c V Wilson and I'm Holly Frying. Recently, 4 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:21,439 Speaker 1: I got to spend one entire night at a lovely 5 00:00:22,239 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: historic hotel. Yeah, and you know where that was. I do, 6 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:27,640 Speaker 1: because you brought me back a postcard and I didn't. 7 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 1: We're going to talk about that postcard to day. It's 8 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 1: called the Grove Parking and it's celebrated it's hundredth birthday 9 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:39,240 Speaker 1: on July twelve of this year, which is and like 10 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 1: any grand hotel, uh, it has quite a history. And 11 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 1: this is kind of an across the board weird one 12 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:48,920 Speaker 1: in terms of all the things that it pulls in 13 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 1: because there's real medicine, there's there's patent medicine, they're famous 14 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:58,560 Speaker 1: writers and inventors several wards, even a ghost story. And 15 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 1: I cannot count the number of other podcast episodes in 16 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:07,319 Speaker 1: our archive that in some way high end the history 17 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 1: of the Grove park In. Yeah. And I was actually 18 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:12,039 Speaker 1: surprised at how many people know about it. I know, 19 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 1: this may just be ignorant on my part, Like I 20 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 1: know about it because it's in the South and uh, 21 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 1: you know friends, it's close enough distance that I have friends, 22 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:22,479 Speaker 1: and like, that's a fancy getaway they've done. But when 23 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:24,399 Speaker 1: I posted a picture of the postcard that you sent 24 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 1: me because it made me laugh and was hilarious, like 25 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 1: friends from all over, like, oh is that from the 26 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 1: Grove Park in I love that place, and like how 27 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 1: do you even know about? Yeah? But if many many 28 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:35,840 Speaker 1: more people did, then I would have anticipated yeah. And 29 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 1: and full disclosure, I did work there briefly for some 30 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 1: time ago. It is also situated in my favorite place 31 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 1: in the world, which is Ashville, North Carolina. So we're 32 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 1: gonna talk today about its history, all of the weird 33 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 1: engineering marvels that went into building it, and how strangely 34 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 1: like today the growth working is this luxury resort and 35 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 1: spa with a golf course and this big sports complex 36 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 1: and all kinds of fancy amenities. They're just amenities, it 37 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 1: really is. When I heard that people plan it as 38 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 1: they're like fancy getaway, Like people will do it for 39 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:11,680 Speaker 1: like an anniversary or should there's even a honeymoon or 40 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 1: just you know, one of those we need to treat 41 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:17,360 Speaker 1: ourselves to luxury, right, And they I had a gift 42 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 1: card from when my brother and sister in law got 43 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:23,799 Speaker 1: married that helped us pay the one night that we've 44 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 1: spent there. Um. It was definitely fancy, and but all 45 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:28,639 Speaker 1: of that fanciness started in a weird It started in 46 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 1: a kind of a weird way because we would not 47 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 1: have the Grove park In if there were not too 48 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 1: serious diseases in the world, which are malaria and tuberculosis. 49 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 1: That is not for any humanitarian reason, but we're going 50 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:46,320 Speaker 1: to get into that. Why we have malaria and tuberculosis 51 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 1: to thank for the existence of the Grove park in 52 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:53,359 Speaker 1: this luxury area. So the Grove park In is named 53 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 1: after E. W. Grove, who is the man whose money 54 00:02:56,800 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 1: helped build the Grove park In and whose name it carries. 55 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:02,920 Speaker 1: Uh And he was born on December twenty three of 56 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 1: eighteen fifty and he was born in a town roughly 57 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 1: sixty miles outside the city of Memphis, and he grew 58 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:12,120 Speaker 1: up on a farm. He moved to Arkansas for a 59 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 1: while and then eventually he moved back to Tennessee, UH 60 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 1: and took on an apprenticeship at a pharmacy in the 61 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:21,400 Speaker 1: town of Paris, Tennessee, which he eventually bought and he 62 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:23,840 Speaker 1: ended up running it himself right, and he wanted to 63 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:26,359 Speaker 1: distinguish himself from all the other pharmacists in the world, 64 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:28,800 Speaker 1: and in the late eighteen hundreds he started on a 65 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 1: plan that he thought might do that, which was to 66 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 1: make a tasteless version of quinine. And that's the medicine 67 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 1: that was used to treat malaria and is notoriously horrible 68 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: tasting it. I've never had to take quinine for any 69 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 1: reason either, but I have heard that one of those 70 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 1: things older relatives like to tell you about how horrible 71 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 1: it is if they've ever had to have it. Uh So, 72 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 1: just a brief on malaria. It's a parasitic illness and 73 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 1: it can range from very mild infection to causing fatality. 74 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 1: And on the mile end of the spectrum, you know, uh, 75 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 1: you would experience cycles of feeling cold, hot, sweaty, kind 76 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 1: of like a fluey situation. Yeah, that's sort of the 77 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 1: classic malaria presentation. But if it's not treated, it can 78 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 1: cause respiratory complications, low blood pressure, clotting problems, hypoglycemia, and 79 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:19,240 Speaker 1: all kinds of other effects. And as we said, it 80 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:22,360 Speaker 1: can be fatal. And at this point in history, malaria 81 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 1: was a very real and huge problem in the American South. 82 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:30,120 Speaker 1: Because the land was swampier, there were consequently more mosquitoes, right, 83 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:32,360 Speaker 1: I mean, we still deal with that during the summers. 84 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 1: We do. We're just not dangerous. Actually, I have a 85 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:38,839 Speaker 1: fear of getting malaria, even though it's no longer endemic 86 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 1: in the South, because most of the time when people 87 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 1: get malaria, and like the people still contract malaria in 88 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 1: the United States every year and they don't recognize it. 89 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 1: They don't recognize it. But it's also usually what happens 90 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:52,480 Speaker 1: is someone has traveled to a place where malaria is prevalent, 91 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:56,279 Speaker 1: they've gotten malaria there, brought it back with them, and 92 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:59,919 Speaker 1: then that's been transmitted to somebody else by mosquitoes. So 93 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 1: the reason that I have a fear of getting malaria 94 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 1: is because we live in a city where there's a 95 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 1: major international airport hub and latins. So that that's why 96 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 1: I have that fear. So back then, when there was 97 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 1: a lot of malaria action happening in the American South, 98 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 1: if you got malaria, you pretty much had to take 99 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 1: quinine forever to manage it. There was no other effective 100 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 1: treatment for malaria. And what quinine did was it inhibited 101 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:29,479 Speaker 1: the parasites that caused malaria, and they would bring a 102 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:33,280 Speaker 1: person's fever down, but it didn't actually eradicate the disease. 103 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:36,360 Speaker 1: So if you stopped taking quinine and there were still 104 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:39,720 Speaker 1: malaria parasites in your body, that they could multiply and 105 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 1: the symptoms would come back. And of course taking quinine 106 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 1: forever uh was terrible because, as we mentioned, it was 107 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 1: made from the extremely bitter bark of the Andean Uh 108 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 1: sacona tree and tasted horrible. People would mix it with limitar, 109 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:59,039 Speaker 1: lime or alcohol or almost anything else to try to 110 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 1: make it more palatable because it was really awful to 111 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 1: choke down, right, And that's where tonic water comes from, 112 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 1: and the gin and tonic neither of which are effective 113 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:11,279 Speaker 1: as a treatment or prevention of malaria in any way, 114 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 1: but that that is why we have quinine and tonic water. 115 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 1: So Grove wanted to come up with a better solution 116 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 1: than having this bitter tasting thing that you had to 117 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 1: take for a long time, and his first attempt was 118 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:25,160 Speaker 1: this prescription Druggs named fever LN, and that was quinine 119 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 1: crystals that were suspended in a liquid, and this was 120 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 1: relatively tasteless. It was harder to taste the quinine when 121 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:35,039 Speaker 1: it was suspended in this liquid, but you had to 122 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: have a prescription to get it, so it was not 123 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 1: something he could just go in mass market. Yeah, and 124 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:46,679 Speaker 1: then next came so exciting Groves Tasteless Chill Tonic, which 125 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 1: built on that original formula by adding sugar, lemon flavor 126 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:54,039 Speaker 1: and other ingredients. And it wasn't exactly tasteless, but it 127 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:57,040 Speaker 1: did taste better than straight quinine, and it could sold 128 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 1: could be sold over the counter, and it was, and 129 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 1: it did very well, and did extremely well. According to 130 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 1: a particularly delightful advertisement, which is also the postcard I 131 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 1: brought back for Holly um the in the picture of 132 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 1: a pig with a baby face and it's like human 133 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 1: baby's heads, human baby's cartoony baby pig, but I shown 134 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 1: baby face on a pig, and it says that the 135 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 1: tonic quote makes children an adults as fattest pigs. So, 136 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 1: according to this advertisement, it sold one and a half 137 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 1: million bottles in a year. It even claimed to out 138 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 1: sell Coca Cola, although we do not really have hard 139 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 1: sales statistics from that era to go on with that claim. 140 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 1: I love that postcard so much it's it's cooky and weird. 141 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 1: It's just you can't look at it without giggle. I 142 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 1: can't look at it without giggling. And it's like instant 143 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 1: mood lift. So groves Little Pharmacy was not nearly big 144 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 1: enough to support this rapidly climbing popularity of the chill tonic, 145 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 1: so he founded the Paris Medicine Company in eight seven, 146 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 1: and that come and he incorporated in eighteen eighty nine, 147 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 1: and eventually the increasing demand for this product drove him 148 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 1: to move the entire business to St. Louis in so 149 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 1: he would have better access to manufacturing facilities. So, thanks 150 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 1: to improvements in mosquito control and flood control, malaria gradually 151 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 1: started to wane. And this led to two things. And 152 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:24,679 Speaker 1: number one, since people didn't need chill tonic the treat 153 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 1: or prevent malaria anymore, it sort of became marketed as 154 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:32,320 Speaker 1: this cure all and the Paris Medicine Company started diversifying 155 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 1: its company's products that had already started doing this, but 156 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:37,079 Speaker 1: it really kicked that into a higher gear to put 157 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 1: out more kinds of products than just ChIL tonic, some 158 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 1: of which were similarly medically dubious like chill tonic had 159 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 1: an actual purpose, but then it became marketed as the 160 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 1: sort of it will revigorize your blood or something non legitimate. 161 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 1: Same thing with these other products. They weren't quite up 162 00:08:56,520 --> 00:08:59,959 Speaker 1: to today's medical standards, will honest, the need for chill 163 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:03,560 Speaker 1: Sonic dropped off. The new flagship product for the company 164 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 1: became Groves Laxative bromo Coinine, which was a tablet that 165 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:11,080 Speaker 1: was billed as the original one day cold cure. It 166 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 1: contained acetanilide, which is an actual drug that the body 167 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 1: will convert into a seat of menafin, so it did 168 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 1: have pharmacologically active ingredients, although acetanilide also has dangerous side effects, 169 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:25,000 Speaker 1: and the claim that the drug would cure colds by 170 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 1: quote opening the bowels and actively killing cold germs was 171 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 1: really pretty bogus. It was not founded in truth. And 172 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:36,200 Speaker 1: you can't see these products and they're packaging and advertisements 173 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:38,440 Speaker 1: because they are on display at the Grove Park in 174 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:41,719 Speaker 1: even today, the part their historical display. I had kind 175 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 1: of forgotten that whole aspect of it until we wandered 176 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:47,440 Speaker 1: around this corner and found the display case of like 177 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 1: wacky clearly not legitimate medical products. Yeah, so this pharmaceutical 178 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:57,400 Speaker 1: venture is how Grove met Fred Loring Seeley, who would 179 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:01,200 Speaker 1: later be instrumental in building the growth park in Seely 180 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:04,440 Speaker 1: worked for pharmaceutical company Parke Davis, and that's the company 181 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 1: that Grove had turned to when he was trying to 182 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:10,720 Speaker 1: perfect his cold tablets. Seely also became groves son in 183 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 1: law when he married Evelyn Grove, who was E. W. 184 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:17,840 Speaker 1: Grove's daughter, and Grove's pharmaceuticals made him an extremely wealthy man, 185 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:20,560 Speaker 1: but his life had its share of hardships. It was 186 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 1: not all easy going. His first wife died in eight four, 187 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 1: and three of the four children they had had together 188 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 1: died in infancy, and his daughter, Evelyn was the only 189 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 1: one that survived. He did remarry and he had two 190 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 1: more children, one of whom died of diphtheria when she 191 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 1: was very very young. He also worked really hard to 192 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:43,080 Speaker 1: make this fortune. He worked himself into exhaustion and he 193 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:46,719 Speaker 1: developed chronic ron caius and that prompted his doctor's to 194 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:49,840 Speaker 1: tell him to spend some of each year recovering his 195 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:53,080 Speaker 1: health in Asheville, North Carolina, and at one point they 196 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:55,080 Speaker 1: told him that he just needed to stay in Asheville 197 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:58,960 Speaker 1: until further notice, and so at this point Seely took 198 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:02,199 Speaker 1: over running a lot of pharmaceutical business, and Grove while 199 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 1: he was recovering, started buying lots of property in Asheville. 200 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:08,480 Speaker 1: As his health got better, he started developing real estate 201 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 1: in Asheville and in Atlanta. And so the Grove park 202 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 1: In is one of the many, many properties in Asheville 203 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 1: and Atlanta that Seely or Grove or both of them 204 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:21,080 Speaker 1: had a hand in developing. And so that is the 205 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 1: malaria element of how his fortune was made. And leading 206 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:27,720 Speaker 1: up to the Grove park In, we are now moving 207 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:32,600 Speaker 1: into the tuberculosis portion podcast. We talked about tuberculosis a 208 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:34,960 Speaker 1: lot on this podcast lately. It really has come up 209 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 1: over and over, even when we select topics that we 210 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:39,199 Speaker 1: think are in no way related to tuberculosis. It was 211 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:41,720 Speaker 1: just pop up in the research somewhere. Um, but this 212 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 1: one is really there's a lot of tuberculosis elements to 213 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:49,480 Speaker 1: talk about. Uh So, during this era, Ashville was struggling 214 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:52,960 Speaker 1: with whether it should be a tourist destination or more 215 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 1: of a health destination for people recovering from illnesses, and 216 00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 1: either could have been lucrative for the city. And it 217 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:02,560 Speaker 1: was really easily suited to cover both of those bases. 218 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 1: It's in a beautiful part of the Blue Ridge Mountains, 219 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 1: and it has relatively mild winters thanks to being surrounded 220 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:11,360 Speaker 1: by all those mountains. It's kind of kind of bowl. Yeah, 221 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 1: it kind of closes it off from some of the 222 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:14,800 Speaker 1: harsher weather that could move in a lot of snow 223 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 1: and stuff kind of goes around instead of hitting Ashville directly. 224 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:22,199 Speaker 1: So in particular, areas like Asheville were increasingly home to 225 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 1: tuberculosis sanatoriums. So in those years before the discovery of streptomycin, 226 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 1: the treatment for tuberculosis was really centered on rest and 227 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:35,839 Speaker 1: nutritious food and breathing some kind of air that people 228 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 1: thought was wholesome in some way. And Mountain Air was 229 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 1: on like the Good Air List of the good types 230 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:45,080 Speaker 1: of air that maybe would help you fight off tuberculosis. 231 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 1: And so this part of North Carolina had already become 232 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 1: home to tuberculosis sanatoriums, and recovery in one of these 233 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:55,200 Speaker 1: sanatoriums took a really long time. Sometimes people would stay 234 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 1: there for months and months. My grandmother actually stayed at 235 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 1: one in Black Mountain, North Carolina, which is a little 236 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 1: bit east of Asheville when she was a child. But 237 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:08,760 Speaker 1: bringing in sanatoriums had the potential to also drive away 238 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:12,199 Speaker 1: residents who were fearful for their own health. Having a 239 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 1: bunch of people with tuberculosis move in could be a 240 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 1: little unsettling. Somebody that was hale and hardy did not 241 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 1: really want to risk exposure, especially since the only treatment, 242 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:24,559 Speaker 1: which was like a lot of people died of tuberculosis, 243 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 1: and the only treatment was like this month's long stay 244 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 1: being you know, cared for and resting and eating wholesome food, 245 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:35,640 Speaker 1: like it could really take months and months up to 246 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 1: a year sometimes. Yeah, And so this fear of the 247 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:44,120 Speaker 1: residents was part of why Grove bought four eight acres 248 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 1: of land, including part of the western slope of Sunset Mountain, 249 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:50,959 Speaker 1: in nine and it was both an investment in land 250 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:53,320 Speaker 1: and a protection of the value of the other property 251 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 1: that he already owned. He bought it in part so 252 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 1: that no one would buy it and build a sanitorium there. 253 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 1: He said so in a letter to Ceiley about two 254 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 1: months after the sale was completed. No, we're not speculating 255 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:07,960 Speaker 1: on that motive. You straight up said, I don't want 256 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 1: I don't want anybody to build a sanatorium here. Later on, 257 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:14,559 Speaker 1: he also had the habit of buying tuberculosis sanatoriums when 258 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:17,640 Speaker 1: they went up for sale and tearing them down, or 259 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 1: when he had property of his own to sell, he 260 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:26,480 Speaker 1: would put this no sanatoriums clause in the sales documentation. 261 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 1: He was really not in favor. Yeah, he was systematically 262 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 1: trying to rid Asheville of the tuberculosis sanatoriums. Yeah, by 263 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 1: using his his well out as a real estate purchaser 264 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 1: and holder. So now let's get back to when E. W. 265 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 1: Grove finally decided to put a hotel on this giant 266 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 1: tract of land he had bought. Yeah, he wasn't uh 267 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 1: really on top of that idea that he didn't jump 268 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 1: on the thought of building an inn there right away, 269 00:14:57,360 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 1: And in fact, the first time an investor came to 270 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 1: him with that idea, he turned them down. But by 271 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:05,360 Speaker 1: nineteen eleven he had started to envision this beautiful hotel 272 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 1: on the slope of the mountain that he had bought. 273 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 1: And he and Seely had gone their separate ways for 274 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: a little while after an apparent disagreement over how to 275 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 1: run Paris Pharmaceuticals. This is a recurring theme in their 276 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:19,480 Speaker 1: relationship they had lots of disagreements on how to run things. 277 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 1: In the meantime, Seely had gone to Atlanta to start 278 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:25,440 Speaker 1: a newspaper that was called The Atlanta Georgian. But by 279 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 1: nineteen eleven Seeli Seely was back in Asheville, shopping around 280 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:33,840 Speaker 1: for an architect for the inn and working from photos 281 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 1: of the similarly rustic Old Faithful Inn in Yellowstone as 282 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 1: an inspiration. A number of architects and designers submitted proposals 283 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 1: for the hotel, but Grove was not really happy with 284 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 1: any of them. Henry Ives Cob of New York did 285 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 1: submit a plan that looked somewhat like what the Grove 286 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:53,880 Speaker 1: park in ultimately ended up looking like, uh, using rough 287 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 1: gray boulders and a red roof, And in the end 288 00:15:56,840 --> 00:16:00,160 Speaker 1: it was Seely himself and not an architect, Hughes mine 289 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 1: what the hotel would look like. He came up with 290 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 1: a sketch that Grove liked, and in turn Grove put 291 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 1: him in charge of the project, working with Cobb, and 292 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 1: gave him a salary and thirteen acres of land to 293 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 1: build a home on, and they selected a site on 294 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 1: the slope of the mountain, and it was one that 295 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:17,600 Speaker 1: had a great view, but it was off the ridge 296 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 1: so it would be less affected by snow than other positions. 297 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 1: And it was also near the actual country club, which 298 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 1: already had its own golf course, so they were hoping 299 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 1: the guests would be able to use that as well. 300 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:31,640 Speaker 1: Like that they could work on a partnership deal. So 301 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 1: we already mentioned that Feely and Grove often did not 302 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 1: work well together. Seely and Cobb did not work well 303 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 1: together either, and ultimately Cobb was dismissed from the project, 304 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 1: and this left Seely free to work directly with JW. Mckibbon, 305 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:50,520 Speaker 1: who was an architectural engineer and construction supervisor John Oscar Mills, 306 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 1: who Grove had worked with previously on some developments in Atlanta, 307 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 1: and they wrote ground on July nine, with the plan 308 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 1: of opening the following July first, which almost happened. That's 309 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 1: a tight build schedule. It's an extremely especially considering the 310 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:08,120 Speaker 1: scope of what they were doing and the technology available 311 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:10,359 Speaker 1: at the time, and building on the slope of a mountain, 312 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:13,120 Speaker 1: Building on the slope of a mountain where weather happens, 313 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:15,359 Speaker 1: even though it is relatively mild. Yeah, it's not a 314 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 1: lot of time to try to build a whole hotel. Yeah, 315 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:20,920 Speaker 1: considering when it was built. Uh, that hotel and its 316 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 1: construction was really an engineering feat. The only typical thing 317 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:28,160 Speaker 1: about it was the excavation. Uh. They used a steam shovel, 318 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 1: although they were only able to use one. One steam 319 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:36,720 Speaker 1: shovel did the whole. The exterior was built with local 320 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 1: granite stones from surrounding mountains and some of them weighed 321 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:42,959 Speaker 1: many many tons individually and these were hauled to the 322 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 1: site primarily using mules and wagons. A lot of these 323 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:50,280 Speaker 1: wagons actually came from Asheville's T. S. Morrison and Company, 324 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:54,359 Speaker 1: which ran from to two thousand and six. It was 325 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 1: very sad when it closed down very recent It had 326 00:17:57,240 --> 00:17:59,119 Speaker 1: gone from being the kind of place where you know, 327 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:02,080 Speaker 1: the local farmers and and people would buy all their 328 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:05,399 Speaker 1: general supplies to the sort of touristy kind of place 329 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:08,879 Speaker 1: that uh cells nostalgia the form of like wind up 330 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:11,639 Speaker 1: ten toys and stuff. And then it just wasn't sustaining. 331 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 1: I guess. Yeah, there were changes to downtown. It didn't 332 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:16,879 Speaker 1: it didn't survive anymore, and they I think the owners 333 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:20,520 Speaker 1: were ready to retire, but back to this construction project, 334 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:22,879 Speaker 1: so they had to get these rocks up to the site, 335 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:25,680 Speaker 1: and to do it, about fourteen wagons would be connected 336 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:28,960 Speaker 1: together to form a train, and a packard truck then 337 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 1: towed them up the mountain. And this sounds really primitive, 338 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:35,840 Speaker 1: but it was actually pretty effective. It could move forty 339 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:38,800 Speaker 1: tons of rock with each load, and it was an 340 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:41,679 Speaker 1: impressive enough engineering feat that it was actually featured in 341 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 1: national publications at the time. So they were able to 342 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:49,159 Speaker 1: leverage power, the power of the truck and use the 343 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:52,360 Speaker 1: load bearing of the wagons in a way that made 344 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 1: doable unique and really uh in the end enabled the 345 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:59,639 Speaker 1: construction of the facility. Yeah, Italian stonemason's cut and shaped 346 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 1: the st owns to fit together, but they left they 347 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 1: left all of the visible faces of the stones natural. 348 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:07,399 Speaker 1: So when you look at the h the walls that 349 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 1: are made of these stones, they have a very rough 350 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:12,879 Speaker 1: hewn look. They look like boulders just stacked up together 351 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:14,840 Speaker 1: to make a hotel. But in fact, on the backside 352 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:17,640 Speaker 1: their cut to fit. Yeah, that's cool. On the inside, 353 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:21,120 Speaker 1: they fit together. The hair doesn't come in. About four 354 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 1: dred men did the work of fitting those stones together 355 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:26,439 Speaker 1: and doing all the interior work. Some of the workers 356 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 1: were local, but Mills also brought some of them with 357 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:32,879 Speaker 1: him from Atlanta, and those sort of displaced workers that 358 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 1: were there from Atlanta were housed in a circus tent. 359 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:39,639 Speaker 1: Just kind of another weird and wonderful factoid about GPS 360 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:43,520 Speaker 1: the roofs. There were five different roofs that it took 361 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:46,359 Speaker 1: to cover the whole in and they were made to 362 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 1: be fireproof. At this point in history, hotel fires were 363 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:52,840 Speaker 1: a huge problem in terms of both monetary cost and 364 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:57,400 Speaker 1: the cost of human life. Uh often fires and hotels 365 00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 1: were huge and had a lot of fatalities. Plus, thanks 366 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 1: to its location up on the side of this mountain, 367 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:06,359 Speaker 1: in the lack of today's firefighting equipment, if the Grove 368 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:09,000 Speaker 1: park In had caught fire early in its history, it 369 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 1: probably would have been a total loss. There wouldn't have 370 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 1: been much they could do about it. So their whole 371 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:14,960 Speaker 1: goal was to make it so that it would be 372 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 1: as fire resistant as possible. So they made these five 373 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:20,679 Speaker 1: roofs to cover all the parts of the hotel with 374 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:24,720 Speaker 1: a solid layer of concrete that was poured over forms 375 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:28,440 Speaker 1: and supports, and the poor went on continually twenty four 376 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:30,960 Speaker 1: hours a day until they were done, so there wouldn't 377 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:34,200 Speaker 1: be any steams for water to leak through. It's kind 378 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:39,440 Speaker 1: of ingenious, but also seems like the hard way, Like 379 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:43,520 Speaker 1: there's part of it and I know you know only 380 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:45,720 Speaker 1: nominal amounts about construction, but there's part of me it's like, 381 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:48,000 Speaker 1: couldn't they have figured out an easier way? But I 382 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:51,440 Speaker 1: don't know. Once all that concrete cured, though, the whole 383 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:55,359 Speaker 1: thing was sealed, and then they put a layer of 384 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:59,440 Speaker 1: timbers and roofing felt uh, and then the distinctive red 385 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:02,320 Speaker 1: tile roof topped it all off, and that meant there 386 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:05,119 Speaker 1: was there while this was this layer of wood. It 387 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:07,720 Speaker 1: was like green timbers that wouldn't burn as well, and 388 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:10,680 Speaker 1: there was this huge layer of concrete between them and 389 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:15,680 Speaker 1: other would like a firewall. So another unique bit of 390 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:18,280 Speaker 1: the way the hotel was constructed is that the elevators 391 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 1: and the historic part of the end are built inside 392 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 1: the fireplaces. Purportedly, this was to shield guests from the noise. 393 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:28,919 Speaker 1: So if they're not in the fire part of the fireplaces, 394 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,679 Speaker 1: they're kind of behind that part in the huge stone 395 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 1: walls of the fireplaces. So when you want to take 396 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:38,920 Speaker 1: the elevator, you go and stand in this little alcove 397 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:43,680 Speaker 1: that is adjacent to the fireplace. The strange historic elevator 398 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 1: comes and takes you up to your room. That's very fascinating. 399 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:50,160 Speaker 1: I haven't been, so I'm trying to picture it. It's 400 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:52,200 Speaker 1: hard to picture, and it's hard enough to picture even 401 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 1: if you were staying there, Like do I walk through 402 00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 1: the fire Yeah, we would be waiting for the elevator 403 00:21:59,920 --> 00:22:04,960 Speaker 1: and people would come and be like for the fire 404 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 1: elevator that is inside the fireplace. The fireplaces are enormous 405 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:13,960 Speaker 1: and beautiful. You could walk right in, you could, yeah. Uh. 406 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 1: Much of the furnishings and the fixtures there came from 407 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:19,439 Speaker 1: Roycroft Community, which is an arts and crafts community in 408 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 1: New York. And the arts and crafts movement started in 409 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:25,240 Speaker 1: England and the Victorian era in part as a response 410 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 1: to the Industrial Revolution. Uh. And it drew heavily from 411 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:31,119 Speaker 1: the writings of John Ruskin and William Morris, and it 412 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:35,640 Speaker 1: combined workmanship and handcrafting with this thread of anti industrial sentiment. 413 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 1: There wasn't one set type of design to it, but 414 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:41,919 Speaker 1: there was a lot of emphasis on simplicity, on skill, 415 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:45,520 Speaker 1: and on quality. Uh. And as a testament to how 416 00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:47,960 Speaker 1: those ideals have held up, there are many of the 417 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 1: original Roycroft pieces and other arts and Craft's antiques still 418 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 1: in use at the Grove Park in so they have 419 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:57,159 Speaker 1: lasted more than a hundred years. UH. And in the 420 00:22:57,280 --> 00:22:59,880 Speaker 1: US UH, the arts and crafts movement is also called 421 00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:01,760 Speaker 1: them mission style, So if you hear someone referred to 422 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:06,480 Speaker 1: mission style stuff. Second, as a side note to our 423 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:10,600 Speaker 1: podcast archives, the Chicago Arts and Craft Society started at 424 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 1: Hull House, so if you listen to Jane Adams episode, 425 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:18,200 Speaker 1: it's all tied together. So the Great Hall, which is 426 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:21,840 Speaker 1: basically the lobby of the hotel, had a rough hewn 427 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:25,320 Speaker 1: local granite interior that matched the exterior of the building, 428 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:29,160 Speaker 1: with huge support pillars in the center and then immense 429 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:33,160 Speaker 1: fireplaces on either end. And there are quotes from famous 430 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:37,359 Speaker 1: authors and philosophers inscribed in various stones around the hall. 431 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:40,680 Speaker 1: And as Tracy hinted at earlier, they did not quite 432 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:44,320 Speaker 1: make their July first deadline for opening. The opening banquet 433 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 1: was actually held on July twelfth, nine with about four 434 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:51,399 Speaker 1: hundred guests, including then Secretary of State William Jennings Bryan, 435 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:55,120 Speaker 1: who included in his address the quote, today we stand 436 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:57,720 Speaker 1: in this wonderful hotel not built for a few but 437 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:00,840 Speaker 1: for the multitudes that will come and go. I congratulate 438 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:04,000 Speaker 1: these men they have built for the ages. I think 439 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:07,439 Speaker 1: it's a lovely sentiment. And on that note, how about 440 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,920 Speaker 1: we take a second and talk about our sponsor, lumosity 441 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:13,359 Speaker 1: dot com. I think that sounds like a grand idea. 442 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:16,560 Speaker 1: You know what lumosity dot com did this morning to me? 443 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 1: Did it make you feel slow and old? Does that sometimes? 444 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:24,280 Speaker 1: But also lots of giggles usually? Yeah, I've improved a 445 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:27,760 Speaker 1: lot since the last time we talked about lumosity this podcast. 446 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 1: This time it gave me, uh, the the exercise I 447 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 1: love and hate, which is the one with the adorable 448 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,199 Speaker 1: penguins that have to go through a maze that the 449 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:38,200 Speaker 1: maze keeps turning and your controls turn at the same time. 450 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:41,160 Speaker 1: A hard time with that one. Yeah, it's tricky. Yeah. 451 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:43,680 Speaker 1: So this is how I've been spending some time exercising 452 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,760 Speaker 1: my brain. You and I both exercised their bodies, So 453 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:51,000 Speaker 1: lumosity exercises your brain too. And since you can set 454 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:53,640 Speaker 1: up your own system of what areas of your brain 455 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:55,840 Speaker 1: you want to focus on in terms of types of 456 00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:57,960 Speaker 1: skills that your brain can do, it's kind of like 457 00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:01,240 Speaker 1: having a personal trainer for your brain. Yeah, you can 458 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 1: really focus on whatever you are you feel you're lacking in, 459 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:10,160 Speaker 1: whether it's memory recall or um. Yeah, are being able 460 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:13,840 Speaker 1: to solve problems quickly and creatively. You you can kind 461 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:17,960 Speaker 1: of focus on anyone or multiples of those. It's based 462 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 1: on the idea of neuroplasticity, which is this idea that 463 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:24,480 Speaker 1: your brain continues to build skills in shape itself even 464 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 1: as you get older, and it gives you customized workouts 465 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:30,439 Speaker 1: online and so they are like exercises, but they are 466 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:33,119 Speaker 1: also fun like games, which is why there are adorable 467 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:35,200 Speaker 1: penguins that are trying to get to a little fish 468 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 1: at the end of a maze. And it doesn't take 469 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:40,159 Speaker 1: very long. It's just a couple of minutes a day, 470 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:43,919 Speaker 1: and you will notice improvement in, uh, the way your 471 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:47,400 Speaker 1: brain handles these tasks. Yes, you can track. There's a 472 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 1: Brain Performance Index where you can track your score and 473 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:52,640 Speaker 1: see how well you're doing and how your skills are 474 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:56,920 Speaker 1: building up in various aspects of how you think and 475 00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:00,440 Speaker 1: solve problems. I've been using it We've mentioned and before 476 00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:04,159 Speaker 1: and my useless meeting time and it is between two meetings. 477 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:06,640 Speaker 1: It's about ten minutes long. It does not usually take 478 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 1: any longer than that. Uh, and wow, do I feel 479 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 1: less deficient in brain power when I look at my 480 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,440 Speaker 1: skills now versus last time a few weeks ago that 481 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 1: we talked about It minor edge up slowly, I've made 482 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 1: great strides in my memory. Go to lumosity dot com today, 483 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,960 Speaker 1: click the start training button to create your own program 484 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 1: and then start playing your first game. That's lumosity dot 485 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:33,600 Speaker 1: com and tell them you heard it on how stuff works. 486 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:36,480 Speaker 1: And now we will get back to what happened at 487 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,720 Speaker 1: the end once it opened. So things went pretty well 488 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,120 Speaker 1: for the Growth park Ends first year. It looked like 489 00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:46,119 Speaker 1: the hotel was going to be a huge success, but 490 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:51,600 Speaker 1: then reality intervened and on Joe Archduke Ferninand of Austria 491 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:55,920 Speaker 1: was assassinated and World War One soon followed. In the end, 492 00:26:56,200 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 1: the war years were really financially precarious for the Grove 493 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,719 Speaker 1: park In. That is not surprising in any way. It 494 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 1: did manage to stay open, although it was not always 495 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:10,280 Speaker 1: profitable during that time. But after World War One ended, 496 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,159 Speaker 1: the Grove park In became a popular destination for the 497 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,720 Speaker 1: well off, and many of its guests were there for 498 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:20,320 Speaker 1: lengthy days of rejuvenation and relaxation, so that Mountain Air 499 00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:23,879 Speaker 1: was considered healthy for many reasons, not just to cure 500 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:27,560 Speaker 1: a specific disease, but it was generally, you know, considered 501 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:30,080 Speaker 1: a healthful place to spend some time. Yeah. Ashville still 502 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:34,040 Speaker 1: has that reputation. Yeah, And after ongoing disputes with Grove Seeley, 503 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:36,880 Speaker 1: uh leased the hotel from him and took over its 504 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 1: management and established it as a place where businessmen, businessmen 505 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:44,440 Speaker 1: and perhaps their wives but preferably not their children could 506 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:47,040 Speaker 1: come to rest and recuperate from the strain of their lives. 507 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:52,240 Speaker 1: They kept it meticulously, meticulously clean. There was a lot 508 00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:57,040 Speaker 1: of effort put into keeping the place absolutely spotless, and 509 00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:00,480 Speaker 1: they also served what they considered to be wholesome food. 510 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 1: But it was also clearly not for sick people. There 511 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:07,920 Speaker 1: was a lot of focus in those earlier years about 512 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:10,600 Speaker 1: how this was about a place to come and you know, 513 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:15,280 Speaker 1: refresh yourself if you've been having some chronic insomnia or 514 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:17,520 Speaker 1: you're stressed out all the time. But it was not 515 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:21,680 Speaker 1: intended for sick people, which they That was clearly stated 516 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:27,920 Speaker 1: often and it did not want that association. Um At 517 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:30,480 Speaker 1: the same time, though for the first few years of 518 00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:33,160 Speaker 1: its operation, people would check into their room and find 519 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:35,480 Speaker 1: a bottle of Groves tasteless chill tonic and a shot 520 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:40,640 Speaker 1: glass on the bedside table of each room. Um. So, well, 521 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,920 Speaker 1: it was not for sick people or little people are children. 522 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 1: They wanted to keep it a quiet place for adults 523 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,600 Speaker 1: to just relax, to relax. They were they were making 524 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:54,600 Speaker 1: it a spa calling it that. Yet yeah, that one 525 00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,560 Speaker 1: of the people who was a visitor here. Another another 526 00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 1: podcast connection is John Harvey Kellogg. Um, it did have 527 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:05,080 Speaker 1: some of the same elements as the Battle Creek Uh 528 00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:07,920 Speaker 1: facility that John Harvey Kellogg was running, but with not 529 00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:11,720 Speaker 1: nearly as heavy an emphasis on all of the various 530 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,320 Speaker 1: pseudo medical treatments that John Harvey Kellogg had going on there. 531 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:18,760 Speaker 1: So the relationship between Celely and Grove we have mentioned 532 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:23,040 Speaker 1: was always um a little adversarial and head buddy. But 533 00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:25,800 Speaker 1: it fell apart completely after more than twenty years when 534 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:28,760 Speaker 1: Grove basically wrote Seeley out of his will and he 535 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:31,960 Speaker 1: even tied up Evelyn's own inheritance that was his daughter 536 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,560 Speaker 1: who was married to Seeley, so that she couldn't leave 537 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 1: any of her inheritance from Grove to Seeley if she 538 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:40,560 Speaker 1: died before her husband did. Groves Will also made it 539 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,120 Speaker 1: very clear that he wanted Seeley out of Grove Park. 540 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 1: So after Seeley's lease on the hotel was up, he 541 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 1: was just going to have to go. There would be 542 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:51,160 Speaker 1: no renewal. Yeah, As for what caused this rift, I 543 00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:54,040 Speaker 1: don't think there was any one thing. They were both 544 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 1: extremely particular and extremely exact and very determined. So if 545 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,280 Speaker 1: each of them set their mom mind to something different, 546 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:03,960 Speaker 1: they didn't agree on what they had, you know, set 547 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:07,120 Speaker 1: their minds on, they would really quickly start to just 548 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 1: go head to head over it. Plus, each of them 549 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:12,880 Speaker 1: seemed to be kind of jealous of the other's relationship 550 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:19,720 Speaker 1: with Evelyn. It's such sad uh in n Seely's least ended. 551 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 1: And in that same year E. W. Grove died, So 552 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:25,600 Speaker 1: Seeli ended his work at the Grove Park on the 553 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:28,240 Speaker 1: eve of the Great Depression, and he turned his attention 554 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:32,240 Speaker 1: to other businesses he'd started, including woodworking and textile manufacturing, 555 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:37,480 Speaker 1: including built more industries. So, even though groves Will had 556 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 1: specified very clearly that his Asheville holdings were not to 557 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:44,280 Speaker 1: be sold in a whole or in part, soon after 558 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:47,440 Speaker 1: all this happened, his son, who was E. W. Grove Jr. 559 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:51,160 Speaker 1: And the hotels general manager, William Curran, decided eventually not 560 00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:54,160 Speaker 1: long after this happened, to sell it. They did find 561 00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:58,080 Speaker 1: a buyer, but the End fell on really hard times 562 00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:00,280 Speaker 1: almost right away and wound up to fall saying on 563 00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:03,040 Speaker 1: both of its mortgages during the Great Depression, and the 564 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:06,240 Speaker 1: history of the Grove varies a lot for the next 565 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,320 Speaker 1: couple of decades. For a few months during World War Two, 566 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:12,760 Speaker 1: the End was an internment facility UH and the first 567 00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:16,120 Speaker 1: group of people interned there were diplomats from Hungary, Bulgaria 568 00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:19,000 Speaker 1: and Italy, and as these diplomats were released, they were 569 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:23,360 Speaker 1: then replaced with German and Japanese internees. So during this 570 00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:25,760 Speaker 1: time the only guests of the Crow Partner were people 571 00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:29,320 Speaker 1: that were forced to be there. They were not they 572 00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:32,800 Speaker 1: were prisoners. And when it when it was more of 573 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:35,600 Speaker 1: a diplomatic facility, the security was a lot more lax 574 00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:38,680 Speaker 1: than once it was a German and Japanese internees. Those 575 00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:42,840 Speaker 1: generally were not diplomats, they were regular people who were 576 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:46,720 Speaker 1: being interned because of where they were from or where 577 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 1: their families were from. So then beginning in October of 578 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:53,000 Speaker 1: nineteen forty two, the growth Park started to house injured 579 00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:56,040 Speaker 1: seamen from the U. S. Navy. This went on until 580 00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,120 Speaker 1: the spring of nine, and then in nineteen forty four 581 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,480 Speaker 1: it became one of distribution centers for United States soldiers 582 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:06,200 Speaker 1: returning from combat during World War Two. So returning soldiers 583 00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:08,800 Speaker 1: would get a furlough to go visit their homes and families, 584 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:10,680 Speaker 1: and then they'd spend up to fourteen days and the 585 00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:14,800 Speaker 1: distribution centers getting physical exams, filling out paperwork, that kind 586 00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:17,800 Speaker 1: of thing. And also in nineteen forty four, for around 587 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:22,520 Speaker 1: a month, Philippine president in exile Manuel el Quizon also 588 00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:27,600 Speaker 1: temporarily ran the government from the Grove Park in After 589 00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:31,400 Speaker 1: World War Two, once it was functioning as an inn 590 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:34,520 Speaker 1: again rather than all of these other roles it had 591 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,640 Speaker 1: taken on during the war, the end really started to 592 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:40,960 Speaker 1: show its age. It gradually fell into disrepair and it 593 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:43,479 Speaker 1: went through a series of owners and managers until it 594 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:46,240 Speaker 1: was bought by an entrepreneur named Charles A. Salmon's in 595 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:50,880 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty five. Salmon's invested in renovations and modernization, and 596 00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,560 Speaker 1: it was a project so big that the hotel closed 597 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:56,840 Speaker 1: for the winter to get it all done. The goal 598 00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:00,400 Speaker 1: of this was to end quote modernize, so many of 599 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 1: the original furnishings and fixtures were altered or replaced since 600 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:06,440 Speaker 1: at this point Arts and Crafts, dick Core and the 601 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:10,720 Speaker 1: whole look that it had been put in was really 602 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,680 Speaker 1: out of favor. So when the growth Park reopened, it 603 00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:16,200 Speaker 1: was as a seasonal resort that had a very fifties 604 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:18,280 Speaker 1: look and feel, and there was even a newly built 605 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:22,400 Speaker 1: motor lodge on the property, and Salmon's continued to add 606 00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:25,120 Speaker 1: on to the facility and remodel it over the years. 607 00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:28,040 Speaker 1: He bought the golf course from the Country Club of 608 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:31,640 Speaker 1: Asheville that they had specifically placed it in close proximity 609 00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:36,080 Speaker 1: to back when they chose the lot, so then uh 610 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:38,920 Speaker 1: without a golf course. The Country Club of Ashville then 611 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:41,479 Speaker 1: bought another golf course that had recently been put up 612 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:44,960 Speaker 1: for sale and that all went down in After the 613 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:48,560 Speaker 1: death of his first wife, Charles Salmon's later married a 614 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:51,440 Speaker 1: woman named Elaine who had a lot of experience in 615 00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:54,800 Speaker 1: hotel management. She had some ideas about what to do 616 00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:56,760 Speaker 1: with the Grove Park in and it was she who 617 00:33:56,840 --> 00:34:00,320 Speaker 1: convinced her husband to really restore the hotel to its 618 00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:03,120 Speaker 1: historic splendor and get rid of all the fifties era 619 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:07,000 Speaker 1: motor lodge trappings that had been modernized into it. She 620 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:09,160 Speaker 1: also thought the hotel was going to need space for 621 00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:12,319 Speaker 1: meetings and conferences to be able to stay competitive, but 622 00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:14,840 Speaker 1: they would really have to put all of those elements 623 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,600 Speaker 1: in in a way that matched the rest of the 624 00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:22,600 Speaker 1: historic hotel. And this massive multimillion dollar effort all started 625 00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 1: in ninety eight and it essentially was ongoing throughout the 626 00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:29,520 Speaker 1: nineteen eighties. It involved demolition of previous editions that had 627 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:33,239 Speaker 1: grown dated, a total renovation of the whole property, and 628 00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:36,920 Speaker 1: construction of two new wings, the Salmons and the Vanderbilt Wings. 629 00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:41,040 Speaker 1: Great pains were taken to modernize while still keeping the 630 00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:44,640 Speaker 1: historic feel. So while the facilities were modern, the look 631 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:47,640 Speaker 1: of it was historic. Uh. And they even went right 632 00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:51,440 Speaker 1: down to using period appropriate color palettes in the historic rooms. 633 00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:55,120 Speaker 1: So for the decor, Elaine Salmon's bought an extensive collection 634 00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:57,600 Speaker 1: of arts and crafts antiques. Yeah, some of the stuff 635 00:34:57,640 --> 00:34:59,879 Speaker 1: that they still had and had in storage brought out. 636 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,360 Speaker 1: Then she also bought new stuff that was really old stuff. 637 00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:08,280 Speaker 1: When Charles Sammons died in his financial advisers really tried 638 00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:11,080 Speaker 1: to convince his wife to sell the hotel. They had 639 00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:13,920 Speaker 1: bought several hotels over the years, and they had gotten 640 00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:16,359 Speaker 1: you know buyers for most of them, but they had 641 00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:19,719 Speaker 1: held onto the growth park in She refused, and what 642 00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:21,840 Speaker 1: she wanted to do was to make it a world 643 00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:25,880 Speaker 1: class resort and spa, so she kept pouring more money 644 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:29,560 Speaker 1: into restoring and refurbishing the historic main inn in n 645 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:32,920 Speaker 1: the palm courts and the historic main inn was restored 646 00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:35,680 Speaker 1: to how it had looked in thirteen and this even 647 00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:39,319 Speaker 1: included meticulously removing layers and layers of old paint and 648 00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:43,960 Speaker 1: then using photographs of the original area and comparing it 649 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:45,640 Speaker 1: to what they had on earth so that they could 650 00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:48,360 Speaker 1: replicate the centil work that had been done in the 651 00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:53,080 Speaker 1: original decor uh. The entire roof, including the concrete layer, 652 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:56,920 Speaker 1: was replaced in nine after leaking became a problem, and 653 00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:00,160 Speaker 1: it was replaced with clay tile to look exactly like 654 00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:05,000 Speaker 1: the original. Construction of a spa started in and it 655 00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:08,000 Speaker 1: was built almost entirely underground so it wouldn't block the 656 00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:11,360 Speaker 1: view from the hotel. The spot opened in two thousand 657 00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:13,920 Speaker 1: one and in two thousand two, the golf course was 658 00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:16,759 Speaker 1: restored to its original design, which had been done by 659 00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:21,080 Speaker 1: golf course designer Donald Ross. Elaine Salmons died in two 660 00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:24,280 Speaker 1: thousand nine, and there wasn't really anyone in the Salmon's 661 00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:28,000 Speaker 1: family who wanted to take up the hotel and its operations. 662 00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:30,960 Speaker 1: She had clearly been very devoted to She was extremely 663 00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:33,520 Speaker 1: to be hard to find anybody to fill her when 664 00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:37,200 Speaker 1: I was working there. She was still living when I 665 00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:39,400 Speaker 1: was working there, and when she would visit the hotel, 666 00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:42,799 Speaker 1: we all had to be extra extra. We had to 667 00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:44,880 Speaker 1: be on the ball all the time. We had to 668 00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:48,240 Speaker 1: be exceptionally on the ball. MS Salmon's was on the property, 669 00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:52,400 Speaker 1: of course. Uh So the property was purchased by KSL 670 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:57,040 Speaker 1: Resorts in and it is now the Omnigrove Park. Yeah, 671 00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:00,880 Speaker 1: that is very recent. So because this hotel has been 672 00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:04,840 Speaker 1: around so long and has had just so much of 673 00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:08,040 Speaker 1: a great history, there are many many prominent guests who 674 00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:10,960 Speaker 1: have visited there at some point in another. There are 675 00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:15,600 Speaker 1: so many presidents and diplomats, famous entertainers like Harry Houdini 676 00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:19,040 Speaker 1: also the subject of a prior podcast, and many prominent 677 00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:24,680 Speaker 1: industrialists from earlier eras of American history. William Howard Taft 678 00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:27,160 Speaker 1: stayed for a time before his death in nineteen thirties 679 00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:30,560 Speaker 1: he tried to recover from heart disease. Both Franklin d 680 00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:34,160 Speaker 1: and Eleanor Roosevelt visited separately, and as part of a 681 00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:37,239 Speaker 1: side note, Ceely and his wife Evelyn, who as we 682 00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:40,720 Speaker 1: said was groves daughter, met Herbert Hoover and his wife 683 00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:44,440 Speaker 1: lou in China, and all four of them narrowly escaped 684 00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:50,360 Speaker 1: the Boxer rebellion adventures with Grove and Seely. Henry Ford, 685 00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:53,480 Speaker 1: Thomas Edison and Harvey Firestone were all fond of the 686 00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:56,479 Speaker 1: inn and they would actually hang out there together. They're 687 00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:59,400 Speaker 1: even pictures on display of the three of them outside 688 00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:02,440 Speaker 1: the inn after a camping trip that are still displayed 689 00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:05,440 Speaker 1: in the hotel. And many of these, uh you know, 690 00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:09,239 Speaker 1: sort of notable characters were people that Seeley had met 691 00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:12,759 Speaker 1: during his newspaper days. And one of the most well 692 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:16,080 Speaker 1: known long term guests and also the topic of a 693 00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:20,760 Speaker 1: past history podcast was f Scott Fitzgerald, and he stayed 694 00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:23,040 Speaker 1: for months at a time in the mid thirties. At 695 00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:25,040 Speaker 1: first this was for the sake of his own health, 696 00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:27,279 Speaker 1: and then later it was to be near Zelda, who 697 00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,640 Speaker 1: was hospitalized for mental illness at Highland Hospital in Nashville, 698 00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:33,320 Speaker 1: and that's where she later tragically died in a fire. 699 00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:38,480 Speaker 1: Uh More recently, President Barack and First Lady Michelle Obama 700 00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:40,960 Speaker 1: have visited, and the golf clubs and basketball that he 701 00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:43,440 Speaker 1: played with while he was there are on display. We 702 00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:45,760 Speaker 1: were just kind of funny. Yeah, we we were giggling 703 00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:48,120 Speaker 1: over that because we kept finding the displays that were 704 00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:50,600 Speaker 1: like and then when pere's the President Barack Obama was here, 705 00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:53,600 Speaker 1: here are the golf clubs that he played with. Here's 706 00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:56,960 Speaker 1: the basketball that he played with. There are many things 707 00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:01,200 Speaker 1: that many famous people had at them or where there 708 00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:04,319 Speaker 1: aren't around the hoell um so recent I think that's 709 00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:06,759 Speaker 1: probably why it's funny. It was very funny to me. 710 00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:10,160 Speaker 1: Um there there are walls of pictures of all kinds 711 00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:16,080 Speaker 1: of notable figures, including many past presidents of many political affiliations. 712 00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:20,200 Speaker 1: So it is not just that makes it funny, so 713 00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:22,000 Speaker 1: funny too. It would be like if you left the 714 00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:23,759 Speaker 1: studio and I took a piece of paper you had 715 00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:26,240 Speaker 1: written a note on, and I was like, here, Tracy 716 00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:32,279 Speaker 1: Wilson wrote a note, except I'm not president uh, and 717 00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:36,839 Speaker 1: then uh to wrap up tell us the ghosts ghost story. So, yes, 718 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:40,799 Speaker 1: all good old inns have a ghost story, and the 719 00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:43,319 Speaker 1: one at the Grove Park is the Pink Lady. The 720 00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:45,960 Speaker 1: story goes that the Pink Lee is a woman who 721 00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:48,280 Speaker 1: fell to her death from one of the upper floors 722 00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:50,759 Speaker 1: of the Palm Court. So the Palm Court is sort 723 00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:54,520 Speaker 1: of the central room area of the historic and it's 724 00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:57,279 Speaker 1: built like an atrium, and so the rooms are around 725 00:39:57,320 --> 00:39:59,279 Speaker 1: the side and there's a long drop down into the 726 00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:03,200 Speaker 1: bottom if you're on one of the upper floors. So allegedly, 727 00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:06,719 Speaker 1: sometime during the nineteen twenties, a woman fell from one 728 00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:09,600 Speaker 1: of these upper floors and died, although we're not really 729 00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:13,319 Speaker 1: sure who this might have been. Um Now she is 730 00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:15,799 Speaker 1: said to haunt room five forty five, although in a 731 00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:19,239 Speaker 1: very friendly way. Everyone describes her as a you know, 732 00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:24,040 Speaker 1: a benevolent ghost who is playful and likes children, not 733 00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:27,719 Speaker 1: a nice creepy way like the previous errors of the 734 00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:29,880 Speaker 1: inn where they ask guests to not bring your children 735 00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:31,840 Speaker 1: and bring your kids. He's okay with it now. It 736 00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:34,400 Speaker 1: is fine to bring children to the Grove Park. There 737 00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:36,759 Speaker 1: are no signs everywhere about how you had better not 738 00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:38,719 Speaker 1: be a sick person if you were coming to stay there. 739 00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:42,480 Speaker 1: Um that the whole Now, it's definitely you know, a 740 00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:45,319 Speaker 1: nice place for people and families to come and take 741 00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:48,680 Speaker 1: a visit, uh with lots of gracious people. I'm not 742 00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:50,840 Speaker 1: trying to sound like an ad for them, but I 743 00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:53,480 Speaker 1: felt that to be true while I worked there, and 744 00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:55,399 Speaker 1: I felt that to be true recently when I got 745 00:40:55,400 --> 00:41:01,799 Speaker 1: to stay there. I wonder if many many people request five, Well, 746 00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:06,520 Speaker 1: they don't really announce this is the haunted room. You 747 00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:09,200 Speaker 1: can find that on the internet though that a lot 748 00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:11,840 Speaker 1: of the rooms in the historic main Inn have little 749 00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:15,040 Speaker 1: labels on them of like the famous historical person that 750 00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:17,160 Speaker 1: stayed in that room, especially if the person stayed there 751 00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:20,719 Speaker 1: for a really long time. Uh So, the room that 752 00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:22,719 Speaker 1: we got to stay in was just down the hall 753 00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:25,360 Speaker 1: from the suite of the suite of rooms that f 754 00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:28,959 Speaker 1: Scott Fitzgerald stayed in, which was kind of I found 755 00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:31,640 Speaker 1: that to be kind of cool. We pretty much the 756 00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:33,640 Speaker 1: whole time we were there, when we were not eating food, 757 00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:36,440 Speaker 1: we were wandering around the hotel looking at all of 758 00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:38,800 Speaker 1: these historical things. Because even though I worked there for 759 00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:40,800 Speaker 1: two years, I didn't get to you know, walk around 760 00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:43,799 Speaker 1: and look at historical from the case of the employees, 761 00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:47,360 Speaker 1: are really cool places. Never get to appreciate those places. 762 00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:50,319 Speaker 1: I was underground. So um, if you were interested in 763 00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:52,720 Speaker 1: all of this, uh, there is a book by Bruce 764 00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:55,160 Speaker 1: Johnson called Built for the Ages, A History of the 765 00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:58,040 Speaker 1: Grove Park in that includes just pages and pages of 766 00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:02,040 Speaker 1: historical photograph the whole thing being built. Um, all kinds 767 00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:04,520 Speaker 1: of interesting facts about the history of the hotel that 768 00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:07,839 Speaker 1: we did not go into here. It's it's basically from 769 00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:11,120 Speaker 1: start to finish, the whole thing lovely, lovely black and 770 00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:14,560 Speaker 1: white pictures of people in there, you know, twenties attire, 771 00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:18,880 Speaker 1: hanging out with the Grove Park. So, yes, that is 772 00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:21,200 Speaker 1: the Grove Park. If I were an extremely rich person, 773 00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:23,719 Speaker 1: you would go there frequently. I would, But I am not, 774 00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:29,040 Speaker 1: and so go there. I go there on the generosity 775 00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:31,960 Speaker 1: of other people. I did get to stay there when 776 00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:35,239 Speaker 1: I was working there one time because I I won 777 00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:40,239 Speaker 1: a stay at the holiday party. That's a big deal. Okay, 778 00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:43,640 Speaker 1: So I have some listener mail. Correctly you share it, 779 00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:47,440 Speaker 1: I will. This is from Gregory. Gregory says Holly and Tracy. Hi, 780 00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:49,960 Speaker 1: I'm a big fan of your podcast. You both make 781 00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:54,000 Speaker 1: my commute to and from work much more bearable. Thank you, Greg, 782 00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:57,359 Speaker 1: actually says Greg at the bottom, so I actually call 783 00:42:57,400 --> 00:42:59,920 Speaker 1: him Greg. I also listened to your show all Right 784 00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:02,440 Speaker 1: Around with my four year old son Thor. We were 785 00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:06,400 Speaker 1: recently listening to your episode about the Flannon Aisle lighthouse disappearance, 786 00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:10,440 Speaker 1: and he has been talking about it ever since. We 787 00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:12,799 Speaker 1: talked about it all of the time, and he keeps 788 00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:15,160 Speaker 1: coming up with his own theories about what happened to 789 00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:17,440 Speaker 1: the three workers. Here are a few that he asked 790 00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:21,440 Speaker 1: me to submit for your consideration. The workers met some 791 00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:23,600 Speaker 1: mermaids and went to live with them. I think that 792 00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:26,920 Speaker 1: sounds fun a und of that breathing problem. It sounds 793 00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:28,279 Speaker 1: like a great way to go. We'll just get the 794 00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:30,279 Speaker 1: sea witch to take care of that for us, an 795 00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:33,840 Speaker 1: exchange for something that makes us crucially individual with I 796 00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:36,440 Speaker 1: was singing in the Futurama solution which is non delightful. 797 00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:38,520 Speaker 1: That seemed to work. O we could we could have 798 00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:41,279 Speaker 1: gilly weed from Herry Potter. Yeah, there are options, so 799 00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:47,080 Speaker 1: back it's growing sla. The next choice was less delightful. 800 00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:51,320 Speaker 1: A sea monster at them. Well yeah, and then the 801 00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:55,760 Speaker 1: next one is a mummy took them. Huh. Seafery mummies 802 00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:57,839 Speaker 1: not so well known, but I'm not willing to rule 803 00:43:57,880 --> 00:43:59,920 Speaker 1: it out. Well, if if they had proper, you know, 804 00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:03,640 Speaker 1: desiccant on board, they could probably deal with that. And 805 00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:07,040 Speaker 1: then my personal favorite, someone dressed up as a mummy 806 00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:10,000 Speaker 1: or a werewolf or a sea monster and kidnapped them 807 00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:11,839 Speaker 1: and then he hasn't got the seas. Thor is also 808 00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:15,719 Speaker 1: a fan of Scooby Doo. Thanks for making a great 809 00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:17,560 Speaker 1: show and for giving my son and I have something 810 00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:20,000 Speaker 1: to talk about. Greg. This is seriously one of the 811 00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:25,960 Speaker 1: most delightful. Thank you Thor for having these wonderful ideas 812 00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:28,480 Speaker 1: about the plan and I'll lighthouse and thank you Greg 813 00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:31,840 Speaker 1: for sharing them with us. That's how history semesteries are solved, 814 00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:36,040 Speaker 1: first brain storming possibilities and then seeing how they could 815 00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:38,600 Speaker 1: have played out well. And I love the idea of 816 00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:42,560 Speaker 1: of of parents and kids talking about whatever they've been 817 00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:45,200 Speaker 1: listening to her watching. I remember when I was a kid, 818 00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:47,000 Speaker 1: my mom and I would go to the movies. One 819 00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:49,320 Speaker 1: of my favorite things was apt in the movie talking 820 00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:52,640 Speaker 1: to my mom about a movie. M Yeah, we would 821 00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:54,440 Speaker 1: do that on the way home. It was just me 822 00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:56,799 Speaker 1: and my mom. For some reason, my brother I guess 823 00:44:56,840 --> 00:44:58,680 Speaker 1: would be camping with my dad or something. I don't know. 824 00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:02,520 Speaker 1: I don't remember my brother being president during this talk, right, 825 00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:07,120 Speaker 1: did have one? I do have one? My brother is 826 00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:10,759 Speaker 1: in the present tense. I should thank him again for 827 00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:15,440 Speaker 1: contributing to your stay and helping make it a feasible 828 00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:18,799 Speaker 1: for us to spend a night there. So, okay, if 829 00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:20,960 Speaker 1: you would like to write to us, there are so 830 00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:23,120 Speaker 1: many ways you can do so. We are at History 831 00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:26,560 Speaker 1: Podcast at Discovery dot com. We're also on Facebook at 832 00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:29,240 Speaker 1: facebook dot com slash history class stuff, and on Twitter 833 00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:32,200 Speaker 1: at missed in History. Our tumbler is at missed in 834 00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:35,120 Speaker 1: History dot tumbler dot com. And after we're done here, 835 00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:36,960 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go pen a bunch of group park and 836 00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:40,920 Speaker 1: stuff on pinteres. If you would like to learn a 837 00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:43,640 Speaker 1: little more of the kookier side of what we talked 838 00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:46,680 Speaker 1: about today, go to our website and put the word 839 00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:50,240 Speaker 1: Ashville in the search bar. You will find an article 840 00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:53,640 Speaker 1: called how the five day weekend works, which, if you 841 00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:56,839 Speaker 1: know anything about Asheville, it is not surprising at all 842 00:45:56,960 --> 00:46:00,839 Speaker 1: that that idea originated. There. You can learn a whole 843 00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:03,279 Speaker 1: lot more about that and many many other subjects at 844 00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:09,960 Speaker 1: our website, which is how stuff works dot com for 845 00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:12,400 Speaker 1: more on this and thousands of other topics. Because it 846 00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:25,200 Speaker 1: has stuff works dot com. Audible dot com is the 847 00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:29,440 Speaker 1: leading provider of downloadable digital audio books and spoken word entertainment. 848 00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:32,760 Speaker 1: Audible has more than one thousand titles to choose from 849 00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:35,440 Speaker 1: to be downloaded to your iPod or MP three player. 850 00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:39,120 Speaker 1: Go to audible podcast dot com slash history to get 851 00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:41,680 Speaker 1: a free audio book download of your choice when you 852 00:46:41,719 --> 00:46:42,480 Speaker 1: sign up today.