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Speaker 1: Body Backs with Joseph Scott Morgan. There's something about wintertime

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Speaker 1: in the Deep South. It can be cool outside, but

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Speaker 1: still the sun warns your face. I'm February the fifteenth,

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Speaker 1: two thousand and two. Lady was out walking her dog

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Speaker 1: along country lane in rural Georgia, one of those places

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Speaker 1: that's got pine trees on either side of the road,

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Speaker 1: beautiful cobalt blue skies above her. Not a care in

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Speaker 1: the world. Now, She's walking along with her dog and

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Speaker 1: enjoying the perfect day. She looks over to her right

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Speaker 1: and she notices something glinting in the sun. It's a

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Speaker 1: human skull, bleached white. Lord only knows how long it

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Speaker 1: had been there. That discovery by that woman led to

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Speaker 1: one of the most horrific events in the history of

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Speaker 1: the state of Georgia. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this

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Speaker 1: is Bodybacks with me today is my good friend Jackie Howard,

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Speaker 1: executive producer of Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Jackie, have

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Speaker 1: you ever heard about anything like this in your entire life?

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Speaker 1: And I'm talking about the Tri State Crematory. No, Joe,

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Speaker 1: I have not. It has been, as you said, twenty

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Speaker 1: years since this gruesome discovery was made in February of

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Speaker 1: two thousand and two. Nearly three hundred and fifty decomposing

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Speaker 1: bodies were found on the property of a crematorium in Noble,

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Speaker 1: Georgia that is up in the mountains of North Georgia,

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Speaker 1: up above Rome. It's a very small town and the

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Speaker 1: Tri State Crematorium had been in business since the early

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Speaker 1: seventies and it served a number of funeral homes in Georgia,

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Speaker 1: Alabama in Tennessee. What was found was instead of performing

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Speaker 1: services that he was hired to do, the owner, Ray

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Speaker 1: Brent Marsh, would not perform the cremation services, but rather

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Speaker 1: he just stacked bodies and stored the bodies there on

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Speaker 1: the property. Families were given concrete in the urns they requested,

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Speaker 1: They did not receive the remains of their family and

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Speaker 1: loved ones. And I have so many questions for you, Joe,

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Speaker 1: but what I want to start off with is talking

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Speaker 1: about cremation. Most people really don't understand it other than

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Speaker 1: to know that bodies are burned. So what is cremation

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Speaker 1: and how are bodies prepared to be cremated? Yeah, Jackie,

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Speaker 1: you know the public at large as no interest in it. Well,

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Speaker 1: let me rephrase that the public at large doesn't want

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Speaker 1: to know anything about it because it's absolutely gruesome when

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Speaker 1: you begin to talk about it, you know, you think

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Speaker 1: about the total and complete development of a human remain

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Speaker 1: to get it rendered down into ash all that's left behind.

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Speaker 1: And you know, you take a body and after it's

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Speaker 1: been rendered down, you can put it into an urn.

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Speaker 1: And many people have them in their homes. But how

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Speaker 1: do you get to that point? And let me dispel

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Speaker 1: one thing right up front. Not every funeral home has

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Speaker 1: a crematory. This is a very specific operation. As a

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Speaker 1: matter of fact, you have to meet very stringent EPA

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Speaker 1: standards in order to operate one owned and operate one.

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Speaker 1: And so what happens in the funeral industry is that

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Speaker 1: you will have a regular funeral home and they will

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Speaker 1: essentially subcontract with a crematory that will perform this function. Now,

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Speaker 1: once these bodies are received at the crematory, they're prepared

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Speaker 1: simply by placing the body on essentially a conveyor belt,

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Speaker 1: and they're conveyed into this giant crematory, which you know,

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Speaker 1: for lack of a better term, it's a huge oven,

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Speaker 1: is essentially what it is now what makes it so

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Speaker 1: effective is that it is completely sealed, all right. And

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Speaker 1: when it's sealed within this environment, there are these little

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Speaker 1: gas jets that are positioned all around the interior of

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Speaker 1: this thing. And what happens is it's supplied by natural

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Speaker 1: gas like a gas line that's running into the crematory.

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Speaker 1: This thing is initiated and it has to remain sustained

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Speaker 1: at a temperature of about seventeen to eighteen hundred degrees

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Speaker 1: spahreheit for a protracted period of time. Now understand that

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Speaker 1: the length of time that a cremation takes is many

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Speaker 1: times totally and completely dependent upon the size of the body.

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Speaker 1: Let's just be very frankier. If you've got a very

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Speaker 1: small person, it's not going to take as long as

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Speaker 1: it would be for somebody that is, say, very very large.

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Speaker 1: So there is some skill involved in this. Now, once

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Speaker 1: the body is essentially rendered down in the crematory, it

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Speaker 1: is belt fed out out of the oven itself and

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Speaker 1: it goes through an auger. If you will just imagine

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Speaker 1: a great turning screw and this will make What it

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Speaker 1: does is it actually reduces the larger burned pieces down

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Speaker 1: to a particulate particulate remain, which is powdered almost And

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Speaker 1: you know, because you have to understand that, for instance,

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Speaker 1: when you're talking about bone, bone is not resilient as

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Speaker 1: resilient as teeth. For instance, teeth are not bone. Teeth

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Speaker 1: will survive a cremation many times. So the idea is

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Speaker 1: to try to render it down as far as you

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Speaker 1: possibly can. And to the untrained eye, most people would

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Speaker 1: not be able to be able to discern between say,

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Speaker 1: something that they're told is a cremaine, and that's the

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Speaker 1: term that's actually used like remains if a body has

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Speaker 1: been cremated, they're referred to as cremines. That and concrete dust,

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Speaker 1: which in the case of Raybrant Marsh, he was actually

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Speaker 1: taking concrete dust and filling earns with them and giving

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Speaker 1: us back to families. Now, you know, in addition to that,

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Speaker 1: it is stated that he would burn wood periodically to

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Speaker 1: kind of render it down as well, to give it

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Speaker 1: kind of a charret appearance, and he would commingle mix

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Speaker 1: that with this concrete dust, seal it up and hand

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Speaker 1: it back to the family and say here the cremains

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Speaker 1: of your loved one. So after the body is rendered down,

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Speaker 1: Joe is everything including the bones and teeth decimated. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it is, Jackie, and that's one of the reasons that

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Speaker 1: that it will go through this auguring process. There will

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Speaker 1: be larger pieces that still remain, but they're very fragile.

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Speaker 1: So the auger after it's you know, after these cremains

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Speaker 1: have passed through the oven, will go through the auger

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Speaker 1: process and it will render them down even further to

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Speaker 1: the point where they're powder, all right, and we're talking

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Speaker 1: about things like moane, we're talking about things like teeth.

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Speaker 1: So that enables the operator to actually take this dust,

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Speaker 1: if you will, and it is dust. It's very very

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Speaker 1: fine for folks at home that don't know or have

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Speaker 1: a hard time conceptualizing this literally if you will, the

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Speaker 1: next time you're around baby powder, talcum powder, just take

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Speaker 1: some of that and render it out into your hand.

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Speaker 1: And crim means are generally just a tad bitten more

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Speaker 1: course than talcum powder. So yeah, it reduces it all

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Speaker 1: the way down. Is it white or gray white? Like

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Speaker 1: we think of having, you know, ash from your fireplace,

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Speaker 1: Generally it's going to have some level of carbon in it,

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Speaker 1: so it will have it'll be more gray, if you will,

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Speaker 1: and sometimes you can pick up on kind of darker

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Speaker 1: elements that will appear black, but there it's very particulate.

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Speaker 1: The fire burns at such a high rate and for

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Speaker 1: such a sustained period of time that most of the

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Speaker 1: time the elements that are left behind are going to

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Speaker 1: have kind of a gray appearance. It's not gonna be

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Speaker 1: white like talc or like snow. It will have kind

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Speaker 1: of a gray appearance to them. So let's just say

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Speaker 1: an average body six feet, I don't know, two hundred pounds.

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Speaker 1: How long is that going to take? I mean, are

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Speaker 1: we talking about days and days? I know you talked

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Speaker 1: about it's obviously going to be different with a child

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Speaker 1: as far as an adult, but just in general about

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Speaker 1: how long does it take our person Because we have

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Speaker 1: so many bodies here that we're not cremated. I'm just

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Speaker 1: trying to get an idea of if they had been,

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Speaker 1: how much time would that have taken. Well, you can

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Speaker 1: probably account. You know, you have to think about prep.

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Speaker 1: You know, what has to go into this taking the

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Speaker 1: body down to the bare essence. Some of these bodies

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Speaker 1: will in fact have been autopsy perhaps and you may

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Speaker 1: have had and people don't realize this. You may have

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Speaker 1: had bodies that had previously been embombed while in order

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Speaker 1: to preserve them. So you know, while families begin to

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Speaker 1: try to think, you know, lots of times families can't

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Speaker 1: make like a snap decision at the time of death.

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Speaker 1: So sometimes bodies funeral homes will go ahead in bomb bodies,

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Speaker 1: and then the families will say, you know what, I

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Speaker 1: think that we're going to go ahead and go down

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Speaker 1: the cremation route. So with that said, every case it

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Speaker 1: is going to be variable. You begin to think about

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Speaker 1: bone density again, you know, tissue thickness, all these sorts

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Speaker 1: of things. But on average it's going to take you

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Speaker 1: roughly one to two hours in order to render body

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Speaker 1: completely down. Okay, what about metal in your body? Fillings, implants,

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Speaker 1: screws from accidents that have been repaired, you know, break

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Speaker 1: your leg, you get a screw through, right, Yeah about

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Speaker 1: metals like that, Yeah, and you'll you'll still have things

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Speaker 1: like pins that are put in from surgery. You know,

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Speaker 1: some of these things are stainless steel, and they'll still

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Speaker 1: be a remnant of that. Many times the operators will

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Speaker 1: go through and they will pick out these items. And

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Speaker 1: one of the things that actually is very interesting about

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Speaker 1: this case, you know, aside from how horrific it is,

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Speaker 1: is that it has been stated by Ray Brent Marsh's

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Speaker 1: attorney on a couple of occasions that he and his father,

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Speaker 1: who had previously operated this facility to try state crematory,

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Speaker 1: they had been exposed to fillings in teeth as they

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Speaker 1: were being burned down. These filings contained mercury. And so

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Speaker 1: what can happen with the exposure to mercury is that

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Speaker 1: you will have instant of this toxic effect on the

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Speaker 1: brain and your ability to perceive things in judgment, and

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Speaker 1: all these sorts of things come into play. And you know,

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Speaker 1: the attorney has said on a couple of occasions that

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Speaker 1: there were unhealthy levels of this substance and Ray Brinton

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Speaker 1: Marsh's blood work over a period of time. But you

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Speaker 1: know that that rationale, that reasoning was not something that

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Speaker 1: was considered by the coordinates case at the risk of

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Speaker 1: being morbid more morbid than usual. Joe, what about this smell?

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Speaker 1: Is there a smell or is it burning at such

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Speaker 1: a high temperature that it burns that smell off. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm just trying to think of people who work in

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Speaker 1: the facility, what are they going to be exposed to. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: the first thing you're going to be exposed to is

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Speaker 1: the intense heat in this environment. And you know, I've

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Speaker 1: been in several crematories over the course of my career,

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Speaker 1: and there's not necessarily an adverse smell when you when

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Speaker 1: you walk in or anything like that because it's so contained,

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Speaker 1: but you can I think probably for me, even me

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Speaker 1: as a death investigator spent around thousands and thousands of

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Speaker 1: dead bodies, there was something ominous to me when I

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Speaker 1: would go in here. I remember one of the last

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Speaker 1: times I ever went into a crematory, the oven had

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Speaker 1: been off for probably three hours when I arrived, and

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Speaker 1: I was going there to examine a body that was

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Speaker 1: to be cremated, and Zachie, I got to tell you,

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Speaker 1: the radiating heat from the oven itself absolutely just struck

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Speaker 1: me in the face. It's one of those moments in

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Speaker 1: time where you know, we talk about being struck backwards

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Speaker 1: by smell. We have something that's that's offensive that we smell,

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Speaker 1: and that of course has happened to me many times

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Speaker 1: on cases involving severe decomposed bodies. But there was something

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Speaker 1: about this environment when you go in there that residual heat.

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Speaker 1: You can feel it and it just kind of gets

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Speaker 1: all over you. And it did for me. You know,

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Speaker 1: it impacted me and I never could get past that

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Speaker 1: because you know, I didn't go to crematories like weekly

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Speaker 1: or anything like that, but I did visit them from

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Speaker 1: time to time. The heat is what always got to me,

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Speaker 1: because you know, I knew what was I knew about

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Speaker 1: the process. I knew what was going on, and so

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Speaker 1: you're in this environment and this radiating heat is kind

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Speaker 1: of getting all over you at that moment time and

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Speaker 1: you know, at least in your mind you're connecting, you're

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Speaker 1: connecting these events together. You know what has just transpired there.

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Speaker 1: So you know, in the case of tries to crematory,

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Speaker 1: it was essentially a single person operation. I think that

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Speaker 1: Ray Brinton Marsh's mother helped administrate the facility, but he

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Speaker 1: was the one that was solely responsible. By this time,

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Speaker 1: his father, who was elderly, was already bedridden in sickness,

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Speaker 1: so Marsh was operating this by himself. He would take

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Speaker 1: these bodies from the funeral home and the way it

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Speaker 1: would happen is that he had contracted or had contracts

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Speaker 1: with these funeral home that would say, hey, mister marsh

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Speaker 1: we need to bring a body down to you and

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Speaker 1: have it cremated. We need it back at this prescribed

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Speaker 1: time the family is expecting range. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no problem.

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Speaker 1: He would go retrieve it from maybe a funeral home

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Speaker 1: or a hospital, take it to his crematory, and of

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Speaker 1: course he would feign having cremated the body. The next thing,

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Speaker 1: you know, he's got an urn that he returns to

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Speaker 1: the funeral home. He doesn't give it directly to the family,

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Speaker 1: gives it to the funeral home. So now you've involved

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Speaker 1: these funeral homes in this process where the funeral home,

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Speaker 1: unbeknownst to them, they're receiving these cremains and then they're

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Speaker 1: handing them off to the family, you know, and of

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Speaker 1: course accepting the money for the process. And this would

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Speaker 1: happen time and time again. Jackie. There's some indication that

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Speaker 1: these cases that we're talking about, and I don't know

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Speaker 1: that they've ever found all of the bodies, there's some

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Speaker 1: indication that this may have been going on since hold

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Speaker 1: onto your hat here, since the mid nineties, per apps,

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Speaker 1: that these bodies have been accumulating since that period of time.

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Speaker 1: And one fact that we have to consider, Joe, that

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Speaker 1: these families forgive and concrete dust. Most people are so

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Speaker 1: unfamiliar with what they should be receiving from the funeral

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Speaker 1: home that if they look in the urn, they're really

247
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Speaker 1: not going to know the difference. No, they're they're not.

248
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Speaker 1: That's not, that's not that's not even on somebody's rate.

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Speaker 1: I mean, who goes into a funeral home and actually

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Speaker 1: thinks that they're having a wool pulled over their eyes

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Speaker 1: when it comes to the remains of the loved one?

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Speaker 1: I mean, just try to do the math on that,

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Speaker 1: just for a second, to hear and sound of my voice.

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Speaker 1: You know, who who among us would actually think that

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Speaker 1: you're being deceived by somebody that is being entrusted, arguably

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Speaker 1: with one of the most sacred, if you will, precious

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Speaker 1: things that we have, and that's our loved ones, the

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Speaker 1: remains of our loved ones. You know that we for

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Speaker 1: for eons, you know, we we've you know, as humans,

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Speaker 1: we've practiced honoring the dead. I think it just let's

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Speaker 1: just absorb that, just for a second, honoring the dead.

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Speaker 1: You know that the dead are essentially the most defenseless

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Speaker 1: among us, if you will, uh, the dead having a voice.

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Speaker 1: And I'll tell you this too. You know, over the

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Speaker 1: course of my career, I made in excess probably of

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Speaker 1: two thousand in person death notifications. And one of the

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Speaker 1: things that really has resonated with me over the years

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Speaker 1: is that you know, people that have illness, you know sicknesses,

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Speaker 1: they go through divorces, um, they have bad marriages, all

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Speaker 1: these sorts of things. It's it's really hard to take

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Speaker 1: the measure of anybody that's going through grief, how vulnerable

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Speaker 1: you are. You're You're like, you're like a weak little child,

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Speaker 1: uh that that needs care. And I'm talking about the

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Speaker 1: families that remain these people, these grieving families are literally

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Speaker 1: the most vulnerable people at that moment time in our society.

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Speaker 1: These grieving families are probably the easiest to be preyed upon.

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Speaker 1: I remember sitting at my desk. I was still working

278
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Speaker 1: for the Medical Examiner's Office in Atlanta as a senior investigator,

279
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Speaker 1: and I remember sitting at my desk when the news

280
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Speaker 1: broke about this case. And at that point in time,

281
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Speaker 1: when the news broke about tri State Crematory, we knew

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Speaker 1: that there were a lot of bodies up in that

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Speaker 1: area of Georgia that they had discovered. But I don't

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Speaker 1: think that that at that moment time that I could

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Speaker 1: even take the measure of it in my mind, because

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Speaker 1: this had never happened before. It had literally never happened.

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Speaker 1: I don't know of any agency that it had ever

288
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Speaker 1: been faced with a set of circumstances like this. You know,

289
00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:15,679
Speaker 1: what do you do with three hundred plus bodies that

290
00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:20,159
Speaker 1: are suddenly thrust upon you in this tiny, tiny little county.

291
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Speaker 1: You just made a major point show and you probably

292
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Speaker 1: didn't even catch it yourself right then, you said three

293
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Speaker 1: hundred plus of bodies. We should note that in total,

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Speaker 1: three hundred thirty four bodies were recovered. The bodies were

295
00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:38,000
Speaker 1: being stored and piled in a storage shed, in vaults,

296
00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:41,800
Speaker 1: and scattered inside and outside of the property. Three hundred

297
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Speaker 1: and thirty four bodies were recovered. How many weren't. That's

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Speaker 1: a big question, isn't, Jackie. You know, because when you're

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Speaker 1: talking about essentially, and I mean this in the truest

300
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Speaker 1: sense of the word, you know, you hear the term

301
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Speaker 1: disintegration and people don't really give it much thought. But

302
00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:06,240
Speaker 1: a cremation probably comes closer to disintegration more so than

303
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Speaker 1: anything else. When we begin to think about human bodies,

304
00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:12,600
Speaker 1: you're literally disintegrating the body. You're pulling it apart. It's

305
00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:15,879
Speaker 1: coming apart at a molecular level, so that nothing is

306
00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:19,200
Speaker 1: left to imagine this. If a strong wind came by,

307
00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:22,760
Speaker 1: it could blow cremains away. That gives you an idea.

308
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Speaker 1: So how much more so when we begin to consider

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Speaker 1: you know, you had mentioned how many had been found

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Speaker 1: at that moment time, and reflect back to what I

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Speaker 1: had said, there was some indication this may have been

312
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Speaker 1: going on since the mid ninety I don't know how

313
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Speaker 1: many cases he was doing every single year, but you

314
00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:42,200
Speaker 1: begin to do the math on this, and the numbers

315
00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:45,399
Speaker 1: could potentially be astronomical. There may very well still be

316
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Speaker 1: family members out there that have never given this a

317
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Speaker 1: second thought. They didn't even know that they were attached

318
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Speaker 1: in this way to this man's business. They may have

319
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Speaker 1: that urned sitting up on the mantelpiece or in a

320
00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:07,200
Speaker 1: m an honored spot in their home, on a shelf somewhere,

321
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Speaker 1: you know, where every day they walk by and they

322
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Speaker 1: just they just assume that their loved one's body is

323
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Speaker 1: in there. So, you know, when you begin to think

324
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Speaker 1: about what happens to these bodies. You know, these bodies

325
00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:21,959
Speaker 1: were actually laying out. Not all of them were in vaults,

326
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Speaker 1: which we can get into, but many of these bodies

327
00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:30,919
Speaker 1: were actually laying out on the bare ground, on bare earth,

328
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Speaker 1: and not just not just individually singularly. There are some

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Speaker 1: reports that these bodies were stacked, and I heard one

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Speaker 1: description where an individual said, just you know, bear with

331
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Speaker 1: me here and try to wrap your mind around this

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00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:50,960
Speaker 1: stacked like cordwood. That is when somebody says that that's

333
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:54,160
Speaker 1: like you, you're, you know, the firewood that you've cut

334
00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:56,960
Speaker 1: for the next year to go in, you know, to

335
00:20:57,080 --> 00:20:59,760
Speaker 1: burn over the year. That these bodies are stacked like cordwood,

336
00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:03,960
Speaker 1: just laying about, and they're everywhere. They're absolutely everywhere over

337
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:06,240
Speaker 1: this huge piece of property that's kind of got a

338
00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:09,280
Speaker 1: wooden barrier to it, if you will, where you couldn't

339
00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:13,160
Speaker 1: really see beyond the woods. It just happened that this

340
00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:17,800
Speaker 1: lady was walking down the road with her dog and

341
00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:21,000
Speaker 1: she happened to see the skull. Now, there had allegedly

342
00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:24,439
Speaker 1: been whispers in the air for years and years that

343
00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:27,320
Speaker 1: something was not quite right, that there were things going

344
00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:29,560
Speaker 1: on around there, but no one had ever taken the

345
00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:31,520
Speaker 1: time to go out and look, and it actually took

346
00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:34,960
Speaker 1: a private citizen walking down the road to find the skull.

347
00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:37,639
Speaker 1: And you asked this question, I think, how did the

348
00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:41,399
Speaker 1: skull wind up in view that close to the road. Well,

349
00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:46,719
Speaker 1: my default position on this is the following. It's the

350
00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:50,640
Speaker 1: fact that they're scavengers coming onto that property. Jackie. You've

351
00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:53,960
Speaker 1: got wild dogs, you've got coyotes, you've got any other

352
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,800
Speaker 1: kind of animals that will take remains and to them

353
00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:00,399
Speaker 1: their food, and they will drag remains all over. So

354
00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:04,119
Speaker 1: that's why I'm saying that logistically, it's a nightmare if

355
00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:06,680
Speaker 1: you're out there trying to recover the remains and you're

356
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:11,400
Speaker 1: trying to account for everything that's out there. Lord only

357
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:13,760
Speaker 1: knows how many bodies have been drug off over the years.

358
00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:17,199
Speaker 1: I bet probably folks in that area could still go

359
00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:18,840
Speaker 1: out there and it would not surprise me in the

360
00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:22,600
Speaker 1: least bit in the adjacent wooded area that human remains

361
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:25,000
Speaker 1: would still be found to this day. So in a

362
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:28,040
Speaker 1: shit and scattered in and outside of the property, and

363
00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:32,000
Speaker 1: in the vaults, we know that bodies decay. Number one,

364
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:34,840
Speaker 1: would they have decayed inside the vault just as normal

365
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:38,160
Speaker 1: or are they sealed since they're in a vacuum. Would

366
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:41,280
Speaker 1: that have made a difference? And what would the scene

367
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:46,080
Speaker 1: have looked like with all of these bodies. It's very basic.

368
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:48,880
Speaker 1: You know, you're gonna have flies, you're gonna have maggots,

369
00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:51,800
Speaker 1: you're gonna have a smell. I mean, and you're talking

370
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:54,840
Speaker 1: about a number of bodies that really it would have

371
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:59,120
Speaker 1: been hard to miss these kind of decompositional markers. Yeah,

372
00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:02,040
Speaker 1: I think. So, you know, you begin to think about that,

373
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Speaker 1: and the only thing I can really kind of hang

374
00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:08,520
Speaker 1: my hat on here scientifically is that there would be

375
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,480
Speaker 1: a foul odor. But an average citizen that was going

376
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:13,719
Speaker 1: down the road might catch a whiff of that smell

377
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:16,680
Speaker 1: and they say, oh, well, I know where I am.

378
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:20,680
Speaker 1: I'm by the crematory. That's probably normal. I gotta tell

379
00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:24,360
Speaker 1: you it ain't normal, all right, And yeah, the smell

380
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:28,520
Speaker 1: would have been affecting to a great degree. You go

381
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,240
Speaker 1: in and you have these bodies that are and you know,

382
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:34,480
Speaker 1: you'd mentioned the vaults, and if folks aren't familiar with

383
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,199
Speaker 1: what my vault flat, some people will say crips. Some

384
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,199
Speaker 1: people will say vault. If you're ever going down the

385
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:41,800
Speaker 1: highway and you see a flatbed truck going down the road,

386
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:45,040
Speaker 1: it'll have these big concrete boxes on it many times,

387
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:47,080
Speaker 1: and you'll see this lid that's fitted on, that's fit

388
00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:50,440
Speaker 1: on top. Those are actually the vaults that are dropped

389
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,760
Speaker 1: into the ground at a dug grave. And remember coffins

390
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:56,280
Speaker 1: are not just simply you know, you just don't dig

391
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:58,520
Speaker 1: a hole and stick the coffin in the ground. They

392
00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:01,600
Speaker 1: put a concrete vault in the ground and then lower

393
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,480
Speaker 1: the casket into the vault, and then a lid is

394
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:07,639
Speaker 1: placed on the ball. Now, this is not vacuum sealed

395
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:12,280
Speaker 1: in any way. In Ray Brinton Marsh's case, he had

396
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:15,359
Speaker 1: several of these vaults that were around the property. I

397
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:19,639
Speaker 1: think they found four that I know of that. And

398
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,120
Speaker 1: these things are big, I mean, they're they're you know,

399
00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:25,240
Speaker 1: from a three dimensional standpoint. You know, you look at

400
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 1: one of these things that's probably i don't know, probably

401
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:31,679
Speaker 1: four feet wide, it's over six feet in length, and

402
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:35,960
Speaker 1: it's probably i don't know, maybe four feet deep. You

403
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:38,680
Speaker 1: take this thing and you can just kind of compress

404
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 1: bodies into this thing, and it works much like you

405
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,840
Speaker 1: might think of mulching in your yard. You know, people

406
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:51,480
Speaker 1: mulch decaying vegetual matter. You begin to stack these bodies

407
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,680
Speaker 1: on top of one another and there and there's heat.

408
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:57,200
Speaker 1: Remember we're talking about the Deep South, and it didn't

409
00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:58,560
Speaker 1: have to be to the Deep South. You could have

410
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:00,639
Speaker 1: done this up north as well. It's gets hot up

411
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 1: there too, and then you put the lid on top

412
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:07,200
Speaker 1: of it. That increases kind of the level of heat

413
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 1: that's contained in there because you've got you've got this

414
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 1: process that's going on in decomposition where it's kind of

415
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:18,399
Speaker 1: generating its own heat and it impacts everything else around it.

416
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:21,920
Speaker 1: So at the end of the day, when you take

417
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 1: the lids off of these vaults, and this is quite

418
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:28,159
Speaker 1: amazing when you think of it. You take the lids

419
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:31,800
Speaker 1: off these vaults, the body's on top that we're last

420
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 1: laying in there. You might get still recognize that that's

421
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 1: a body, but as you go deeper. As you go deeper,

422
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 1: now you're getting into essentially what becomes a stew. It's

423
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:49,440
Speaker 1: actually a stew. This is almost like a slow cooking

424
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 1: process where everything is beginning to render down and drop

425
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:55,399
Speaker 1: down and drop down. We have a term for this

426
00:25:55,480 --> 00:26:01,479
Speaker 1: in forensic anthropology that these practitioner referred to and it's

427
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 1: called stratification, where you know, when remains are buried, and

428
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 1: you know, from a geological standpoint, you can see stratification

429
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,120
Speaker 1: where things are laid on top of things and things

430
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:15,920
Speaker 1: become stratified. There's different layers to them, and here you've

431
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 1: got an intense example of that. Now, what happens is

432
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 1: that as a result of these bodies being stratified, they

433
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 1: begin to come apart. And as they come apart, remember

434
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 1: we don't have any soft tissue in place any longer

435
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 1: that are holding that's holding skeleton together. Now you've just

436
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 1: got this kind of really disgusting soup that's at the bottom,

437
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:41,879
Speaker 1: and the remains begin to commingle. So you'll have skeletal

438
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 1: remains that over period of time. You can't really appreciate

439
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:49,400
Speaker 1: it in the short period, but over period of time

440
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:51,880
Speaker 1: they actually begin to roll a little bit in there,

441
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:56,880
Speaker 1: they'll they'll adjust, particularly in this kind of thick, viscous

442
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:59,359
Speaker 1: fluid that's down at the bottom, and you have this

443
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,640
Speaker 1: commingling of remains, So you have all of these skeletons

444
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 1: that are mixed together. So when you look at it,

445
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:07,399
Speaker 1: you can just you know, just from that, you know

446
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:09,879
Speaker 1: the human body's got over two hundred bones in it.

447
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 1: So if you've got fifteen bodies that are stacked on

448
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 1: top of, you know, one another, and there do the math?

449
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 1: Do the math get an idea as to what you're

450
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 1: talking about relative to all of the skeletal elements that

451
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:26,959
Speaker 1: are commingling one one another. How do you go about

452
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 1: kind of separating all of this. That's what made this

453
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 1: such an overwhelming task. Where all of the people at

454
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 1: the scene, Joe, we know that it was an anonymous

455
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:40,600
Speaker 1: tip that brought police into this investigation. How would they

456
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 1: have linked that skull back to the crematory. The only

457
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 1: answer I really have for that, Jackie, is proximity. You know,

458
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 1: you put you put two and two together, because you

459
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:53,879
Speaker 1: know the authorities, the people that lived in this area

460
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:58,680
Speaker 1: and this little isolated rural area of Georgia. People know

461
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 1: that travel up down that road, that live in proximity

462
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:04,639
Speaker 1: to this location. Certainly the authorities, I'm sure, probably know

463
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:08,200
Speaker 1: that the crematory is there. So you find a skull

464
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:11,920
Speaker 1: lying on the ground and you're going to put these

465
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 1: two factors together. You don't have to be an investigator

466
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 1: to do that. Your point of origin is going to

467
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:19,360
Speaker 1: be within a stone strow of that skull. And then

468
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:22,399
Speaker 1: when you get investigators out there, they're going to know

469
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:27,920
Speaker 1: or at least have a rudimentary understanding regarding human remains

470
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 1: and how far safe. For instance, a scavenger will go

471
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:33,959
Speaker 1: with a bit of human remain. You know, they're not

472
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 1: going to go a long, long ways away. So if

473
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 1: you think about that skull, the remainder of that body

474
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 1: probably would be within fifty yards of that point at

475
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 1: which you found the skull, unless unless there had been

476
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 1: some kind of huge rain storm and the body had

477
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 1: been completely disarticulated and things get washed away. But that's

478
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 1: that's an anomaly that normally doesn't happen. And in this

479
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 1: particular case, when they found that skull, all they had

480
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 1: to do is think, well, my gosh, you know, just

481
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 1: through that woodline is a crematory. I think that we

482
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 1: can probably begin our investigation there. And I'm sure that

483
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 1: when they rolled up they began to ask questions and

484
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, can you imagine being that investigator.

485
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 1: You look out and maybe you see a foot, maybe

486
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 1: you see a hand, maybe you see an entire intact body,

487
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 1: and suddenly you realize what you're in the middle of

488
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 1: and it was an absolute hellscape. So far, Joe, two

489
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty six of the three hundred and thirty

490
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,960
Speaker 1: four bodies that were recovered have been identified, So at

491
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 1: this point you're looking at DNA. They obviously would go

492
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 1: to their families and say we found this body part.

493
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 1: Did you contract with the crematory for services? Is that

494
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 1: how it was working to identify those bodies? Yeah. The GBI,

495
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 1: which the GBI is the primary investigative body within the

496
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 1: state of Georder. They're the state police. You know, you've

497
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 1: got the state troopers that handle highway things that go

498
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:00,040
Speaker 1: on like that, and then you have the GBI, the

499
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 1: Georgia Bureau of Investigation, and they're the ones that took

500
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 1: the lead on this case from this perspective of trying

501
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 1: to peace solve this together. And of course at this

502
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 1: point in time, this is what's kind of odd about

503
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 1: this case and kind of sets it apart, you know,

504
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 1: different than things that maybe I talk about regularly on

505
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 1: body bags, this case, when you begin to bore down

506
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 1: into it, you're not talking about a homicide. Now some

507
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 1: of these bodies, I don't know, some of these people

508
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 1: could have been victims of homicide. At some point in time,

509
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 1: but they wound up with a funeral home. Okay, I'm

510
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 1: not saying that that none of these bodies were the

511
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 1: victim of a homicide before they got to the funeral home.

512
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 1: That you know that that is probably a case. However,

513
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 1: in this particular case, as it centers around Marsh and

514
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 1: the Tristate Crematory, you're not talking about a true death investigation. Now.

515
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 1: The mission here is to try to get the bodies identified.

516
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,280
Speaker 1: We're not we're not thinking about like we normally do

517
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,720
Speaker 1: in medical legal terms, causing manner of death, you know,

518
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 1: which I talk a lot about on body backs. This

519
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 1: is an identification effort at this point in time. So

520
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 1: you're relying upon things like dental x rays if any

521
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 1: of the bodies are visually identifiable. I'm sure that they

522
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 1: took facial photographs of many of these bodies, some ones

523
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 1: that could still be recognizable, any kind of jewelry that

524
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 1: they may have had. And this is kind of a

525
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:30,400
Speaker 1: curious thing. I know that some of the bodies that

526
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 1: and this is kind of this is really particularly ghastly.

527
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 1: Some of these bodies that were out there were actually

528
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 1: identified by hospital bracelets that they had on the wrist.

529
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 1: And let me break this down to you. When somebody

530
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 1: dies in a hospital, they still have their patient ID

531
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 1: on their wrist. The body is removed from the room

532
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:57,239
Speaker 1: and it goes to perhaps the hospital morgue, or they

533
00:31:57,320 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 1: might just if they don't have a morgue, they have

534
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 1: what's called a cool room, and then you wait for

535
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 1: the service to come and pick up the body. This

536
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 1: is how little care this person took, all right. He

537
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 1: would load the body into the back of the hearse,

538
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 1: drive it to the crematory out on the property, and

539
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 1: then can you imagine he just drags the body out

540
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 1: of the back of the hearse and discards it out

541
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,440
Speaker 1: on the open ground, maybe still wearing. And I do

542
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 1: know this for a fact. There were somebodies that were

543
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:28,240
Speaker 1: out there that still had hospital gowns on and they

544
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 1: still had identity, those plastic identity bracelets around their wrist.

545
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 1: I even know of a case where they found this

546
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 1: is particularly horrible, found the body of an infant commingled

547
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 1: with adult bodies. You imagine that just laying there and

548
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 1: around the little ankle of the baby there was a

549
00:32:47,040 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 1: hospital identifier. I've walked into homes where entire families have

550
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 1: been slaughtered in one evening, and Yeah, I felt like

551
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:18,720
Speaker 1: I had the way of the world on me as

552
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 1: an investigator because there were so there was so much

553
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 1: evidence at the scene that I had to consider. I

554
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 1: had to examine all of these bodies. I had to

555
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:32,960
Speaker 1: actually contextualize everything. I don't for me, I cannot even

556
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 1: imagine what it would take in order to begin on

557
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 1: a case like this when you look out over this

558
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:46,479
Speaker 1: piece of property and you cannot turn your head to

559
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 1: the left of the right without seeing a corpse. Let's

560
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about the people who would have

561
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 1: handled this kind of assignment. What type of investigators were sent.

562
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 1: I do know this was a federal investigation because it

563
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 1: was across state lines, So what kind of personnel would

564
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:10,319
Speaker 1: have been deployed to handle this situation. Let's go back

565
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 1: in time just a little bit, and remember we're talking

566
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:16,960
Speaker 1: about February two thousand and two. You know, in September

567
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:19,720
Speaker 1: of two thousand and one, just a couple of months

568
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 1: before the Twin Towers had come down. As a matter

569
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:25,239
Speaker 1: of fact, at this point in time, in February two

570
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 1: thousand and two, they still had not completely finished process

571
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:31,600
Speaker 1: in all of the bodies it would still be several

572
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:36,320
Speaker 1: months after that and up in New York when this occurred,

573
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:42,839
Speaker 1: it triggered an organization within the federal government that's called

574
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 1: d morton. Many people have never heard of this organization,

575
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 1: but it's it's kind of interesting, particularly from a medical

576
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 1: legal standpoint, but d mort is an acronym that actually

577
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:55,920
Speaker 1: stands for a Disaster and Mortuary Operational Response Teams. And

578
00:34:56,480 --> 00:35:01,760
Speaker 1: these teams are made up of medical legal death investigators,

579
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 1: forensic pathologists, X ray technicians, mortuary service personnel, dentist from

580
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:12,840
Speaker 1: many people across the spectrum in medical legal death investigation.

581
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:17,279
Speaker 1: Their sole purpose is to go out in mass fatality

582
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:22,840
Speaker 1: events and begin to east together what had happened and

583
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 1: try to identify bodies. You know, Jackie, some of the

584
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:30,759
Speaker 1: people that were out at the scene had just returned

585
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:35,920
Speaker 1: from Ground zero and can you imagine the horror that

586
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:39,239
Speaker 1: they had witnessed up there and then that come down

587
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:44,080
Speaker 1: to Georgia and before their very eyes here is something

588
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:47,840
Speaker 1: that is obviously not at the level of Ground zero,

589
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 1: but still horrific to look at. So when the switch

590
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:56,759
Speaker 1: is flipped for these people to respond, it's only going

591
00:35:56,760 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 1: to happen. And actually the state medical examiner requested assistance

592
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 1: with this. It's only going to happen if you have

593
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:10,239
Speaker 1: such a volume of bodies that it outpaces the resources

594
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 1: of the state. They don't have any way to handle this.

595
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:16,719
Speaker 1: So it would have been where these individuals would have

596
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:19,720
Speaker 1: gone out in teams. They were broken them down into teams.

597
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:22,000
Speaker 1: They would have searched a grid. They would have done

598
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:24,319
Speaker 1: a grid search over the entire area and begin to

599
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:26,600
Speaker 1: try to put this thing together so that they can

600
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:30,960
Speaker 1: come up with identifications for everybody. And it's at this

601
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:35,120
Speaker 1: point in time that you would have people like mortuary

602
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 1: services people that would begin to coordinate with all of

603
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:42,759
Speaker 1: these contracted funeral homes around the area to try to

604
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:48,959
Speaker 1: track down how many bodies had been sent to try

605
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:52,320
Speaker 1: state crematory from the various funeral homes. Can you imagine

606
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 1: what a nightmare would be, say, for instance, if a

607
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:56,920
Speaker 1: funeral home was now closed that may have been opened

608
00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 1: ten years earlier. The trail suddenly goes cold for you

609
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 1: at that point in time, and you're left scratching their

610
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 1: head because it's completely different than a normal investigation where

611
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 1: we have an unidentified body. You know where the corners

612
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 1: going out there? The medical examiner's going out there, and

613
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,040
Speaker 1: we're kind of the first on the scene at this

614
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:19,719
Speaker 1: point in time. The body, these bodies that you have

615
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:23,400
Speaker 1: before you have already passed through several hands at this point,

616
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:26,759
Speaker 1: so you're having to backtrack on everything. And then when

617
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 1: you put this factor in there, this huge number of bodies,

618
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:35,400
Speaker 1: it increases exponentially as far as the amount of labor

619
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:38,800
Speaker 1: that it takes to try to solve these cases. How

620
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:43,480
Speaker 1: long would it take to complete an investigation like this

621
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:48,320
Speaker 1: with the number of bodies that were recovered and the

622
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:52,160
Speaker 1: size of the area that had to be investigated, It'd

623
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:54,840
Speaker 1: be daunting, to say the very least. A lot of

624
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 1: it's going to be dependent upon what the level of

625
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 1: decay is with a particular body, or how intact the

626
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:05,319
Speaker 1: body still is that you're you know, you have to

627
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:08,960
Speaker 1: focus on one body at a time, and so you know,

628
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:11,719
Speaker 1: you're looking at a body that may, for instance, be

629
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:14,279
Speaker 1: in an advanced state of decomposition. You might only have

630
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:17,319
Speaker 1: skeletal remains that are left. You might only have a

631
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 1: partial skeleton. What are you going to do if, say,

632
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:24,760
Speaker 1: from the pelvis down that's all that remains, the upper torso,

633
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:28,360
Speaker 1: the arms, small small bones, of the hand, the ribs,

634
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 1: the vertebra are scattered about, and the skull is missing, say,

635
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 1: for instance, like the skulls they found out by the road,

636
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 1: you know, and so it comes in degrees, and they

637
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:42,280
Speaker 1: would have in the way this is organized, the scene

638
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:44,400
Speaker 1: would have been sectioned off when it comes to the

639
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:49,360
Speaker 1: processing area. The processing area is completely separate, say, for instance,

640
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:53,759
Speaker 1: from the crime scene itself or the scenes where these

641
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 1: bodies are found. They're going to have an area that's

642
00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:58,239
Speaker 1: set up over there that they've got portable X ray,

643
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 1: they've got portable topsy services that are there. They've got

644
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 1: a separate records area, they've actually got believed or not.

645
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 1: They've actually got dental stations over there, so that they

646
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:11,839
Speaker 1: would take a skull, for instance, and there would be

647
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:16,600
Speaker 1: a forensic odentologist or dentist standing there with their tools

648
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 1: looking at teeth very very carefully and making annotations about

649
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:25,399
Speaker 1: everything that's going on, orally with a body to see

650
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:30,240
Speaker 1: if there's any restorations Ofmalgam's missing teeth, if the person

651
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 1: had some kind of say, for instance, had evidence of

652
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:36,879
Speaker 1: a root canal, or if they had evidence of say

653
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:39,760
Speaker 1: a bridge that was in place, or dentures for instance,

654
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:42,359
Speaker 1: they would look at everything to try to gather as

655
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:46,479
Speaker 1: much information as they could about that one remain and

656
00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 1: begin to piece this together, and you try to essentially

657
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 1: breathe life into the debt at this point in time

658
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 1: to tell their history and everything is important. You know,

659
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:58,400
Speaker 1: all surgery scars or perhaps if all you have are

660
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:01,800
Speaker 1: skeletal remains you've mentioned early, they're rendering down of bodies

661
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 1: that might have pins that have been in place, say

662
00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:07,040
Speaker 1: in bones, for instance, as a result of some kind

663
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:11,799
Speaker 1: of orthopedic surgery. That's going to be essential information at

664
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:15,239
Speaker 1: this point in time. So every bit of information and

665
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 1: data that you can come across relative to these bodies

666
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:21,160
Speaker 1: is going to be essential if you want to bring

667
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:23,120
Speaker 1: this thing to an end. So again, Joe, we know

668
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:27,359
Speaker 1: that over one hundred bodies were not identified. What happens now?

669
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:30,120
Speaker 1: You know, if our listeners wish to, they can still

670
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:34,680
Speaker 1: go to the GBI website and there is a section

671
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:39,279
Speaker 1: and this gives you. This gives you an idea where

672
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:43,840
Speaker 1: it's exactly it's I think we're two weeks past it,

673
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 1: but the twenty year anniversary just happened relative to tri

674
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:54,640
Speaker 1: state to give you an idea of how seriously. The

675
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:58,440
Speaker 1: GBI takes this. They have an entire web page on

676
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:01,520
Speaker 1: their website that is devoted to strictly the Tri State

677
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 1: Crematory case, and anybody that wants to can go through

678
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:08,520
Speaker 1: there and look at the list of the remains that

679
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 1: still to this day remain unidentified. And again, this is

680
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:20,440
Speaker 1: something that is almost counterintuitive to the way we normally

681
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:24,839
Speaker 1: conduct investigations because if we come across just so our

682
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:29,320
Speaker 1: listeners can grasp this, if we come across a body,

683
00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:34,720
Speaker 1: an individual body that we're working a case on, and

684
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 1: we try very very diligently to get that person identified,

685
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 1: we are looking specifically for a family Jackie. Everybody that's

686
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:47,840
Speaker 1: out there and at some point in time been previously

687
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 1: accounted for. It had already been identified at some point

688
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:56,080
Speaker 1: in time in the history of those remains. The problem

689
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:58,960
Speaker 1: is is that the families are no longer aware of it.

690
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:02,799
Speaker 1: They just assumed that their loved one was cremated and

691
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:04,960
Speaker 1: they've moved on with their life at this point in time.

692
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:09,640
Speaker 1: So I don't know how much success that there will

693
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:12,560
Speaker 1: be in trying to get the remainder of these bodies,

694
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:16,360
Speaker 1: which there are quite a number of. At the end

695
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:19,160
Speaker 1: of the date how much success they will happen getting

696
00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:22,600
Speaker 1: these remains identified. As you were talking, Joe, I did

697
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 1: what you said. I went to the GBI website and

698
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:30,319
Speaker 1: that is GBI dot Georgia dot gov forward slash Tri

699
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:39,959
Speaker 1: Tri dash State dash Crematory dash U I d GBI

700
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:46,480
Speaker 1: dot Georgia dot gov slash Tri dash State dash Crematory

701
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 1: dash UID. I would suggest that anybody that is from

702
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:56,520
Speaker 1: the Tri state area Georgia, Tennessee, Alabama that may have,

703
00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:01,120
Speaker 1: um you know, suffered a loss in their family and

704
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:05,719
Speaker 1: their family member had been cremated, I would suggest at

705
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 1: least take a look, just take a look and see

706
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:11,359
Speaker 1: what is on that list, because you never know, you

707
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 1: might be the answer to one of these big questions

708
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:17,960
Speaker 1: that remains, and that is who in fact are these individuals.

709
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:21,759
Speaker 1: Because as time has gone on, people have forgotten about

710
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 1: this case, and you know, reflectively we look back at

711
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:28,239
Speaker 1: it and it is a case that is going to

712
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:31,520
Speaker 1: live with everybody I think that was out at that scene.

713
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:34,800
Speaker 1: It still impacts them to this day and that community

714
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:42,800
Speaker 1: up there will never ever be the same. Joseph Scott

715
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:46,000
Speaker 1: Morgan and this body backs