1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:05,040 Speaker 1: Well, the raids started this morning at around seven am. 2 00:00:05,519 --> 00:00:09,720 Speaker 1: Fifteen properties were searched this morning in seven of the 3 00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:12,600 Speaker 1: German of the sixteen German states, so that is a 4 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 1: pretty big operation where some one hundred and seventy offices 5 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:17,680 Speaker 1: were involved altogether. 6 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:21,919 Speaker 2: In May twenty twenty three, German police conducted a massive 7 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 2: raid on the homes of leaders in the climate group 8 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 2: Last Generation. 9 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 3: Our website you might have been taken down as several 10 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:32,640 Speaker 3: technical devices have been confiscated and accounts are blocked. 11 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:35,199 Speaker 2: It doesn't mean that the resistance will stop. It was 12 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:40,560 Speaker 2: a pretty rapid escalation. Last Generation had only just started 13 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:45,000 Speaker 2: staging protests in January twenty twenty two. The group N 14 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:47,879 Speaker 2: is just seven young people in Germany who went on 15 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:50,239 Speaker 2: a hunger strike trying to get the front runners in 16 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 2: the twenty twenty one national election to talk just talk 17 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 2: about climate change. After three weeks and multiple hospital visits, 18 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 2: only two of the activists remained on their hunger strike, 19 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 2: and they managed to get the presumed winner of the election, 20 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:08,279 Speaker 2: Olaf Schultz, to agree to host a public discussion about 21 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 2: the issue. Almost seventy percent of Germans believe they are 22 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 2: more concerned than their government about climate change today and 23 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 2: as a result have become pretty pessimistic about the government's 24 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:23,840 Speaker 2: ability to pull through on its climate commitments. So in 25 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 2: late January twenty twenty two, activists with Last Generation began 26 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:34,120 Speaker 2: blocking roads. Within months, a prominent conservative politician, Frank Schaeffler, 27 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 2: was sounding the alarm about them being extremists and terrorists, 28 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 2: and multiple other politicians joined in. When Last Generation activists 29 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 2: painted the headquarters of his party, the FDP, Schaffler compared 30 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 2: them to the RAF or Red Army Faction, also known 31 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 2: as the bottommine Off Gang. The RAF was a far 32 00:01:56,360 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 2: left terrorist group that routinely kidnapped, bombed, and n assassinated 33 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 2: its targets beginning in the nineteen sixties. Because sure, throwing 34 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:09,640 Speaker 2: mashed potatoes at a painting is totally the same thing. 35 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:16,279 Speaker 3: Hold On bens Stamp. 36 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 4: Told them, Alice, well, boy, yeah, I was tapped, did 37 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 4: tip him. 38 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 3: I'm commanded. 39 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 2: That's the stunt that drew international attention to Last Generation 40 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 2: throwing mashed potatoes at amne. The activist talking there says 41 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 2: people are starving, people are freezing, people are dying, and 42 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:43,280 Speaker 2: you're worried about tomato soup or mashed potatoes on a 43 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:50,519 Speaker 2: painting Schaffler called the stunt terrorism. It'd be easy to 44 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:54,359 Speaker 2: laugh off if German media hadn't started repeating the RAF 45 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:59,079 Speaker 2: thing pretty quickly. Here's Spiegel TV covering the spray paint 46 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:03,399 Speaker 2: incident and saying some are concerned about Last Generation being 47 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:04,279 Speaker 2: a green. 48 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 4: RAF gets off by the FDP laws depolit four Denka 49 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:16,919 Speaker 4: in the klima short sneer fabul from Spinstan Grunen. If 50 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 4: debtvik would have gone to write on TI media was 51 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 4: optimal faviet pa. 52 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 2: Pretty quickly, Schaffler started referring to Last Generation as a 53 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:32,360 Speaker 2: quote criminal organization and used his position in the German 54 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 2: Parliament or Bundestag to call for the group to be investigated, 55 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 2: particularly with respect to their donations. As media coverage continued 56 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 2: and raids like the one you heard at the beginning 57 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 2: of this episode started to happen, police were beginning to 58 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 2: sound an awful lot like Schaeffler. 59 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 5: Seven suspects between the ages of twenty two and thirty 60 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 5: eight are accused of forming or supporting a criminal organization, 61 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 5: and of course that is quite a heavy accusation here 62 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 5: that can also be charged with five years up to 63 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:08,120 Speaker 5: five years in prison. Well, the main accusation is that 64 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 5: those suspects that I've just mentioned have organized fundraising to 65 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 5: finance further crimes for the last generation. 66 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 2: Schaffler hasn't historically been a super powerful guy in German politics. 67 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 2: He's best known for being the guy who didn't want 68 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:27,840 Speaker 2: to bail out Greece during the twenty eleven deck crisis, 69 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 2: a move that saw him ousted from Parliament for four years. Today, 70 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:36,719 Speaker 2: in addition to stoking fear and anger towards last generation, 71 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 2: he's been credited with blocking a climate bill that the 72 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:45,480 Speaker 2: government had unanimously passed. It would require that all newly 73 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 2: installed heating systems are powered by at least sixty five 74 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 2: percent renewable energies by next year, effectively banning oil and 75 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:58,680 Speaker 2: gas in new buildings. Schaffler has stalled its passage and 76 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:01,359 Speaker 2: the gas lobby has been spending a lot of money 77 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:03,920 Speaker 2: to fight it, so it was once a done deal 78 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 2: is now uncertain. One possible reason for Shaffler's sudden turn 79 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 2: as a big anti climate guy is what he did 80 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 2: with his time off from parliamentary politics. He started a 81 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 2: libertarian think tank, the Prometheus Institute, and he managed to 82 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 2: get it into a powerful global network of like minded 83 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 2: think tanks. The Atlas Network. 84 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 6: Well, Atlas Network is, as a name suggests, a network, 85 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:36,039 Speaker 6: and it's global. 86 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 7: We work all around the world. 87 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:38,600 Speaker 8: We're based in the US. 88 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:41,840 Speaker 7: We have about one hundred and fifty nine partners in 89 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:44,920 Speaker 7: the United States right now, and the bulk of our 90 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:47,239 Speaker 7: partners are outside Adlas Network. 91 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 3: It connects people from all over the world defending the 92 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 3: idea of human dignity, defending human rights and personal liberties. 93 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 2: This is a little intro video to the Atlas Network 94 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:06,480 Speaker 2: from the organization's YouTube channel in twenty twenty one. The 95 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:10,360 Speaker 2: network was formed in nineteen eighty one. But to understand 96 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 2: what it is and why it's so powerful, we've got 97 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 2: to go back in time a few decades to the fifties, 98 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 2: to the first of these think tanks, the Institute for 99 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:24,560 Speaker 2: Economic Affairs, and the guy who started it, Anthony Fisher. 100 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 9: So Fisher was, like most of the major protagonists of 101 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 9: the movement, was born to a quite wealthy family. 102 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 2: This is Jeremy Walker, a senior lecturer at the University 103 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:40,840 Speaker 2: of Technology, Sydney who's written more about the Atlas Network 104 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 2: than anyone. 105 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:46,480 Speaker 9: He went to Eton, the e Late School across the 106 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 9: river from Windsor Palace, and I went to Cambridge. He 107 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 9: was wealthy enough that he and his brother bought an 108 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 9: airplane for the fun that he came from a family 109 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 9: of mine owners. 110 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 2: Fisher joined the Royal Air Force and was shocked that 111 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 2: when Britain finally had an election at the end of 112 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 2: World War II, the public voted for the more left 113 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 2: leaning Labor Party. To Fisher, they represented exactly the sort 114 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 2: of slippery slope to socialism he'd been fighting in Germany. 115 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 2: He read the reader's digest version of a book called 116 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:21,240 Speaker 2: The Road to Serfdom by economist Frederick Hayek, who also 117 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 2: blamed socialism for all of society's problems, and sought Hayek out. 118 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 2: At the time, he was a professor at the London 119 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 2: School of Economics. Fisher told Hayek he was considering getting 120 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:37,880 Speaker 2: into politics to do something about this situation, and Hayek 121 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 2: advised him against it. 122 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 9: Hiak said, there's no point going into politics. That we 123 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:46,680 Speaker 9: need to do is change what the intellectuals think, like 124 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 9: the teachers, the journalists days of the paper who had 125 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 9: piped away for public acceptance of Keynesianism and the idea 126 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 9: of welfare state. 127 00:07:57,720 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 2: Fisher would later go on to talk about this as 128 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 2: waging the war of ideas. In nineteen fifty four, Hayak 129 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 2: invited him to be part of a network of neoliberal 130 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 2: thought leaders called the montpellerin Society. 131 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 9: That's very interesting in that letter that he wrote says, 132 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 9: we don't do propaganda. That's not what we do in 133 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 9: the montpellerin Society. It's a kind of intellectual society where 134 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 9: we debate economics and policy problems of the day to 135 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 9: defend an advanced liberalism against this tide of socialism which 136 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 9: is washing over the world. 137 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:35,959 Speaker 2: Fisher took Kyek's advice to heart, and instead of launching 138 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 2: a political campaign, he started a research institution, the Institute 139 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 2: of Economic Affairs in the UK in nineteen fifty five. 140 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 2: It fashions itself as the UK's original free market think tank. Ironically, 141 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 2: the money that paid for the IEA initially came from 142 00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 2: the fortune that Fischer had amassed by bringing the idea 143 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 2: of key chicken farming from the US to Britain. Because 144 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:08,920 Speaker 2: nothing says freedom like cajuns and animals. The IA pottered 145 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:12,079 Speaker 2: along for a few years, putting out research papers, and 146 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 2: then something happened to elevate its status in the world. 147 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 9: The early sixties. Shell comes on board and starts to vacuum. 148 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 9: They finance him as well as BP, and then things 149 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:26,319 Speaker 9: start to change. They start to, you know, begin to 150 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:27,200 Speaker 9: have some influence. 151 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:32,080 Speaker 2: I'm Ami Westervelt and this has drilled the real free 152 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:36,080 Speaker 2: speech threat. How big oil helped Fisher take over Britain 153 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:38,599 Speaker 2: and ultimately the world. What it all has to do 154 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:42,199 Speaker 2: with the crackdown on climate protests today after the break. 155 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:51,439 Speaker 9: So, the thing with the think tank method was it 156 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:55,560 Speaker 9: allowed corporations to say things that they couldn't say themselves 157 00:09:55,679 --> 00:10:00,079 Speaker 9: without appearing to be merely speaking to their particular of 158 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 9: a interesting profit. 159 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 2: This is Jeremy Walker again. I think thanks are so 160 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 2: ubiquitous today that sometimes it's easy to forget that they've 161 00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 2: actually had and continue to have a pretty major impact 162 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 2: on society and public policy in a lot of ways. 163 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 2: That began with Fisher and the IEA. 164 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:22,960 Speaker 9: By the seventies, they're having a real impact, right, They're 165 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 9: getting a lot of press. And the way that it 166 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:28,679 Speaker 9: would work was they would get these professors to write short, 167 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 9: digestible articles whatever it would be about. 168 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:32,839 Speaker 3: You. 169 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:36,480 Speaker 9: Often those things around currency conversion or of things that 170 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 9: were fairly technical to the non economists. But then these 171 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:41,839 Speaker 9: wealthy donors to the IA would then buy like you 172 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:44,439 Speaker 9: copies and send them to all the schools and the universities. 173 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:48,840 Speaker 2: But to accomplish that whole corporation speaking without people knowing 174 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 2: that it's them thing, the IEA kept those wealthy donors hidden. 175 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:57,320 Speaker 2: The research papers seem like just original research. They weren't 176 00:10:57,360 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 2: coming out of a university, but they were on par 177 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 2: with university research and often written by professors. Longtime listeners 178 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:09,959 Speaker 2: of this podcast might hear echoes in this strategy the 179 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 2: approach that early pr pioneer Ivy Lee took when the 180 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:16,959 Speaker 2: Pennsylvania Railroad was trying to combat new regulations in the 181 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 2: US at the turn of the century. Lee created the 182 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 2: Bureau of Railway Economics. He staffed it with legit and 183 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:28,319 Speaker 2: credible economists and put out dry white papers on the 184 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:33,080 Speaker 2: broader economic impacts of things like safety requirements or increased 185 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 2: wages for rail workers. The press, not knowing that the 186 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:40,760 Speaker 2: research was paid for by the rail company, quoted from 187 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 2: it like it was entirely independent research. In Fisher's case, 188 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 2: the work the IEA was doing wasn't just for the 189 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 2: benefit of one particular industry or company. He wanted to 190 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 2: change how a large segment of society viewed how the 191 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 2: economy and the government should work period. 192 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:05,840 Speaker 9: Adept never disclosing the sources of their funding, the corporate 193 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:09,920 Speaker 9: backers and so on. That was key to the whole operation. 194 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 2: For oil companies, the think tank approach was part of 195 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:15,320 Speaker 2: a broader propaganda strategy. 196 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 9: The same time as Shell and BP were sponsoring the 197 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 9: Institute of Economic Affairs to business propaganda to the British 198 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 9: electorate against the post war welfare state, they were also 199 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 9: financing the British Secret Intelligence Service overseas, the MI six, 200 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 9: to do propaganda in all of the countries in the 201 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 9: Middle East and Africa where they had operations. So in 202 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:43,200 Speaker 9: a sense, yeah, that work. Companies are sponsoring two kinds 203 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 9: of propaganda, one. 204 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:47,360 Speaker 10: Which was civil and directed at the electorate in Britain 205 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 10: and another one which was linked to the British Secret 206 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:55,440 Speaker 10: services policy to maintain friendly governments towards the British oil 207 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:55,960 Speaker 10: companies in. 208 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 9: The Middle East. 209 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 2: Fisher and his work at the IEA was key to 210 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 2: those efforts. 211 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:07,040 Speaker 9: So around the early seventies, Fisher becomes very much in demand, 212 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:09,080 Speaker 9: and they can see that what he's doing is having 213 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 9: a big impact. 214 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 2: Meanwhile, Fisher's farming business was not doing so well. Having 215 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 2: sold the chicken farming business, Fisher invested in a new venture, 216 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 2: turtle farming in the Cayman Islands. As he had done 217 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:29,079 Speaker 2: with chicken. Fisher thought he could use captive farming methods 218 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 2: with turtles to create a cheap source of protein for 219 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 2: people all over the world. But some pesky environmentalists got 220 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 2: in the way and ruined it all. They got politicians 221 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 2: across the world to ban turtle products and the venture 222 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 2: went belly up. Fisher lost a lot of his farming fortune, 223 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:52,599 Speaker 2: all of which made the success of the IEA that 224 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:54,319 Speaker 2: much more important to him. 225 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 9: He came to the United States in nine seventy and 226 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:06,560 Speaker 9: did it, speaking to her where he exhorted American business 227 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:10,319 Speaker 9: to fight back against this apocalyptic tide of regulation and 228 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 9: social movements and stuff, you know, the environment movement, all 229 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:16,719 Speaker 9: the social movements of the sixties, and he had the 230 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 9: method for how they could do that. He was invited 231 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 9: out by the Institute of Humane Studies, which was founded 232 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:28,880 Speaker 9: by Baldy Harper, who was also a Montpella and Society member. 233 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:32,480 Speaker 2: Today, the group Uncoke My Campus, which advocates for getting 234 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 2: dark money in general and Coke family money in particular 235 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 2: out of universities, describes the Institute for Humane Studies as 236 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:44,600 Speaker 2: a recruitment arm for the Coke network. It's a campus 237 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:48,160 Speaker 2: program based at George Mason University that acts as a 238 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 2: sort of talent pipeline for Coke think tanks, front groups, 239 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 2: and advocacy projects. Back in nineteen seventy, though, it was 240 00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:58,320 Speaker 2: still just getting started and looking for a way to 241 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 2: further the conservative car in the US, which is what 242 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:03,720 Speaker 2: led them to invite Fisher over. 243 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:07,160 Speaker 9: And they invited him out, and then the main sponsor 244 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:10,960 Speaker 9: was Charles Coke, who also controlled the board, and Fisher 245 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:13,960 Speaker 9: did a tour in the States in nineteen seventy, including 246 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:17,160 Speaker 9: tobacco executives and so forth. So the IA starts this 247 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 9: correspondence with the IHS, and so this disconnects Coke and 248 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 9: his lieutenants to the IA. Around nineteen seventy. 249 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 2: The conversations between Fisher's IEA and Coke's IHS built the 250 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 2: foundation for Fisher to go beyond Thatcherism and go international. 251 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 2: A few years later, Fisher got invited to Canada, and 252 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 2: it's there that he ended up starting his first think 253 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 2: tank outside the UK. 254 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:52,480 Speaker 9: In nineteen seventy four, Fisher is invited to Canada to 255 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:56,360 Speaker 9: establish the Fraser Institute. It's very difficult to find anything 256 00:15:56,440 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 9: much out about that, but the Fraser Institute certainly was 257 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:06,320 Speaker 9: connected very much to the question of the development of 258 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 9: oil and gas in Canada. 259 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 2: The world's major oil companies continued to back Fisher in 260 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:16,480 Speaker 2: all of his various endeavors as he started to branch. 261 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:19,200 Speaker 9: Out all of the major oil companies. Obviously there's Shell there, 262 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 9: but there's also the American oil companies. At the same time, 263 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:26,520 Speaker 9: the North Sea oil is being opened up, and this 264 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 9: is a big deal because this breaks the OPEC cartel. 265 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:33,640 Speaker 9: And so Fisher gets invited to Canada. They set up 266 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 9: the Fraser Institute around the time that the Tasan oil 267 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 9: is being developed. And again on the early boards, you've 268 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:43,560 Speaker 9: got people from Imperial Oil just Exon subsidiary in Canada. 269 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 9: You've got the Royal Bank of Canada and the Corporate Board, 270 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 9: which is the biggest investor in oil and gas in Canada. 271 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 2: There was a lot going on for the oil industry 272 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 2: at this moment in time. It's the mid seventies, so 273 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:58,280 Speaker 2: right around the time that people in other countries start 274 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:01,400 Speaker 2: inviting fisher to come and start think tanks. You've got 275 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 2: multiple Middle East countries kicking US and European oil companies out. Suddenly, 276 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:11,720 Speaker 2: after profiting from the resources in those countries for decades, 277 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 2: they had to start looking for new oil, and they 278 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 2: were getting desperate to find some. Then you get the 279 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:23,160 Speaker 2: Arab oil embargo in nineteen seventy three as a response 280 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 2: to the US providing military aid to Israel, and that 281 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:30,120 Speaker 2: kicks off an energy crisis. At the same time, oil 282 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:32,879 Speaker 2: company scientists are starting to put out papers about the 283 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 2: greenhouse effect in this big potential looming problem for the industry, 284 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:41,440 Speaker 2: and you've got a bunch of new environmental regulations being 285 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 2: passed both in the US and all over the world. 286 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 2: So industry is really on its back foot. We've covered 287 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:50,640 Speaker 2: before how much they started to lean on pr during 288 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:54,239 Speaker 2: this period to deal with this whole situation. Walker has 289 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:57,320 Speaker 2: documented how they also started to lean on the think 290 00:17:57,400 --> 00:17:59,160 Speaker 2: tank approach during this time. 291 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 9: So with all of this new environmental regulation coming to 292 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:08,320 Speaker 9: oil companies, as well as public support for nationalization of 293 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 9: domestic oil and gas. And there's also at the same 294 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:16,719 Speaker 9: time a huge kind of deep mistrust of transnational corporations, 295 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:20,879 Speaker 9: So the whole critique of transitional corporations in the developing 296 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:24,800 Speaker 9: world and in the West, you have this great attention 297 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:30,440 Speaker 9: to companies providing arms no more like Dow and so 298 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 9: on that had also been highlighted by Retel Cousins book 299 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:36,520 Speaker 9: The Salt Springs. So they've got all of these threats 300 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:38,719 Speaker 9: coming toward them, and so they can't go out there 301 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 9: and do what might have been done in the fifties 302 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:44,040 Speaker 9: and hire Ronald Reagan and have the General Electric Hour 303 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 9: on a TV show. They can't do anything in their 304 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 9: own names, right, And so this is where the Fisher 305 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:51,040 Speaker 9: method comes in. 306 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 2: After Canada, Fisher got invited to Australia to set up 307 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:57,680 Speaker 2: a think tank there and then back to the US 308 00:18:57,880 --> 00:18:58,920 Speaker 2: to set up two more. 309 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:04,640 Speaker 9: And Fisher quite literally describes what he does after from 310 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 9: the mid seventies, Ons is establishing i EA clones, right, 311 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 9: so just taking the method and then reproducing it. It's 312 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:20,240 Speaker 9: been getting invited by very wealthy businessman corporations to produce 313 00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:23,400 Speaker 9: this new method of influencing public opinion and pushing back 314 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:28,320 Speaker 9: against these movements for public control of oil rents and 315 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:32,200 Speaker 9: public control pollution in Australia. 316 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:35,440 Speaker 2: Fisher helped to found that the Center for Independent Studies 317 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:38,840 Speaker 2: with the help of a wealthy businessman who is now 318 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:39,840 Speaker 2: a household name. 319 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:44,280 Speaker 9: He's invited by a man called John Beneathan, who ran 320 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 9: one of Rupert Murdoch's newspapers in Adelaide, which is where 321 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:53,879 Speaker 9: Rupert Murdoch's corporate empire begins. In South Australia. 322 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 2: In the early nineteen seventies, Australians were calling for nationalizing oil, 323 00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:03,680 Speaker 2: coil and gas, passing environmental regulation, and passing legislation that 324 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 2: protected Aboriginal land rights for the first time. Murdoch used 325 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 2: his media empire to campaign against all of it, and 326 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:15,720 Speaker 2: eventually that campaign was successful, triggering a constitutional crisis in 327 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:20,520 Speaker 2: nineteen seventy five that put conservatives in power. But businessmen 328 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:23,879 Speaker 2: and wealthy elites in the country were worried that public 329 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:26,960 Speaker 2: sentiment was not really on their side, and that is 330 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 2: where Fisher came in. 331 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:31,440 Speaker 9: This is what Fisher did was just basically target the 332 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 9: people who were scared, who had the most to fear, 333 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:37,000 Speaker 9: who lay in bed awake, wearing going to be kidnapped 334 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 9: by revolutionary Marxists or whatever they were worried about, and 335 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:45,560 Speaker 9: just play on these anxieties and then paint this apocalyptic 336 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:50,200 Speaker 9: scene for them, you know, of massive inflation and strikes, 337 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:55,879 Speaker 9: and you know government debt and taxation and punishment of 338 00:20:56,520 --> 00:21:00,080 Speaker 9: rich people. And they would hand him some money and 339 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:03,159 Speaker 9: I'm here then ask them for more connections. It was 340 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:08,240 Speaker 9: Fisher that really did the work of galvanizing capitalists to 341 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:12,600 Speaker 9: the cause of the need to have a new institute 342 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:15,119 Speaker 9: in Australia like the IA, and it was called the 343 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:18,080 Speaker 9: Center of Independent Studies, and the founding brands for that 344 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:24,080 Speaker 9: came from the Murdoch Press, from Shell, DHP, Rio Tinto. 345 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:29,399 Speaker 2: In the US, Fisher helped to start two new institutes. 346 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:32,879 Speaker 2: There was the Pacific Research Institute in California, which was 347 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:36,840 Speaker 2: meant to deal with environmental regulation. In fact, its original 348 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 2: name was the Center for Economic and Environmental Analysis, idea 349 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 2: being to consistently remind people that compromises needed to be 350 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:47,920 Speaker 2: made on environmental issues in order to ensure that the 351 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 2: economy would continue to grow. But the environmental movement wasn't 352 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:55,920 Speaker 2: the only social movement causing trouble in the US at 353 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:59,399 Speaker 2: the time. US business leaders wanted their own version of 354 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:02,680 Speaker 2: the Thatcher Revolution, something that would push back on all 355 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 2: of the social movements of the sixties. So in nineteen seventy. 356 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 9: Eight he established with William Caissey, who went on to 357 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 9: run Reagan's election campaign and then was CII director. Under Reagan, 358 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 9: they established the Manhattan Mistitute. 359 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:22,840 Speaker 2: It's pretty incredible how often Fisher turns up at all 360 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 2: these key moments in history. But for our purposes, it's 361 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:30,440 Speaker 2: particularly interesting to note that environmentalists were a problem for 362 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:34,919 Speaker 2: him the whole way through, from his failed turtle farming 363 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:38,720 Speaker 2: venture in the Cayman Islands to the regulations that environmentalists 364 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:41,639 Speaker 2: were pushing in the early seventies, to the formation of 365 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 2: an entire institute to deal with it, the Pacific Research Institute. 366 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:49,119 Speaker 2: Shortly after he started it, he began looking for funding 367 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 2: and support to turn his little collection of IEA clones 368 00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:56,800 Speaker 2: into a cohesive entity, a network of think tanks that 369 00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:59,920 Speaker 2: could work together and inform each other, and also act 370 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:04,000 Speaker 2: as an incubator for more think tanks. The Atlas Network 371 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:08,000 Speaker 2: was founded in nineteen eighty one. Almost immediately, Fisher began 372 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:12,200 Speaker 2: turning his attention to Europe and Latin America, two areas 373 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:16,440 Speaker 2: where a tendency towards socialism had been concerning business interests 374 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:17,920 Speaker 2: for a long time. 375 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 11: Fisher started the Atlas Economic Research Foundation to replicate this 376 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:28,639 Speaker 11: success of his first effort in this field, the Instead 377 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:32,440 Speaker 11: of Economic Affairs in the United Kingdom. He saw that 378 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:36,960 Speaker 11: how after decades of serious work, it influenced the country 379 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:41,560 Speaker 11: and the world, so he wanted to replicate success and 380 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 11: also tried to win some policy battles. 381 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,960 Speaker 2: This is Alejandro Chaflin. He was eventually tapped to run 382 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:51,480 Speaker 2: the Atlas Network and he ran it from nineteen ninety 383 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:53,560 Speaker 2: one until twenty eighteen. 384 00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,080 Speaker 11: He saw thought that many things tanks working on the 385 00:23:56,160 --> 00:24:00,080 Speaker 11: same topic were more effective than a single voice of 386 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:04,360 Speaker 11: producing research that is rigorous enough as to be used 387 00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:08,600 Speaker 11: at universities but also accessible to the educated lamb, and 388 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:12,840 Speaker 11: in that way helped change public opinion and finally change 389 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,040 Speaker 11: policy in different corners of the globe. 390 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:19,440 Speaker 2: Chaffwin started out as the Atlas Network's Latin America director. 391 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:23,640 Speaker 11: I had a vision to bring more think tanks from 392 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:27,800 Speaker 11: the Americas to the freedom movement, and when he met me, 393 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:32,119 Speaker 11: who came from Latin America, he again appointed me like 394 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:36,040 Speaker 11: director of Latin American affairs and let me go was 395 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 11: very young. He sent me to Sea donors to raise 396 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:42,399 Speaker 11: funds to create a program, and that has led to 397 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:48,879 Speaker 11: Atlas becoming perhaps the leading supporter of think tanks in 398 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:49,639 Speaker 11: the America. 399 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:54,200 Speaker 2: At one point, Chafwin was asked to explain who the 400 00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:57,880 Speaker 2: audience was for Atlas Network, and he boiled it down 401 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 2: to one word. One of the very first think tanks 402 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:09,440 Speaker 2: created by this newly formed Atless network was the Institute 403 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 2: for Liberty and Democracy in Peru. It was started the 404 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 2: same year the Atlas Network started in nineteen eighty one, 405 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 2: and its founder was a well known economist, Hernando de Soto. 406 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,159 Speaker 2: De Soto came up with a theory that wound up 407 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:27,800 Speaker 2: reverberating throughout the Atlas Network universe. It's a really good 408 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:30,800 Speaker 2: example of just how much these think tanks talk to 409 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 2: each other and how ideas spread. 410 00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:37,920 Speaker 12: Reda dit Ceo gira la masonia nuisabata. 411 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 2: Here he is giving a TED talk in twenty eleven 412 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:47,679 Speaker 2: explaining his strategy for dealing with indigenous environmental activism. 413 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 12: Wequa internationalist I Coolo hi Is stays having los in 414 00:25:58,800 --> 00:25:59,920 Speaker 12: diaz Nolezu. 415 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,120 Speaker 2: He says one of the consequences of treating Indigenous people 416 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:12,280 Speaker 2: like they're straight out of the movie Avatar is that 417 00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 2: they don't have property rights, and that various international environmental 418 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:21,960 Speaker 2: organizations argue that indigenous people don't want property rights, that 419 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 2: they prefer to wander through the forest, but that when 420 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,240 Speaker 2: he and his team went to see for themselves, what 421 00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:33,119 Speaker 2: they found was extreme poverty in indigenous communities. For DeSoto, 422 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:37,560 Speaker 2: the solution is property titles, property rights, which would then 423 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:41,760 Speaker 2: let indigenous people make money off their land, and in particular, 424 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:45,960 Speaker 2: off of selling or extracting the resources from it. This 425 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,959 Speaker 2: is perhaps unsurprisingly something that a lot of Atlas Thing 426 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:54,359 Speaker 2: Tank members in the US have argued as well. Naomi 427 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:58,080 Speaker 2: Schaeffer Riley, a senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, 428 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,320 Speaker 2: has argued that the reason Indigenous people in the US 429 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 2: experience higher poverty rates is because they don't have property rights, 430 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 2: and expressly not because of anything to do with colonialism. 431 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:12,960 Speaker 2: DeSoto came up with his version of this theory after 432 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:17,720 Speaker 2: a bloody standoff between indigenous environmental activists and police in 433 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:19,600 Speaker 2: Peru in two thousand and nine. 434 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:23,040 Speaker 13: Dozens of people are estimated to have been killed, and 435 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:26,840 Speaker 13: clashes between police and indigenous activists protesting oil and mining 436 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 13: projects in the northern Peruvian Amazonian province of Bagua. 437 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:35,239 Speaker 2: Indigenous leaders were protesting the encroachment on their land by 438 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:40,439 Speaker 2: various interests, including timber mining and oil and gas. 439 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:45,119 Speaker 13: I Witness accounts indicate the police fired live ammunition and 440 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:46,520 Speaker 13: tear gas into the crowd. 441 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,879 Speaker 2: DeSoto argues that the solution to all of this is 442 00:27:51,040 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 2: just to cut indigenous groups in on the profits. It's 443 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,639 Speaker 2: all very well, he says, not to drag indigenous people 444 00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:14,800 Speaker 2: into globalization, not to pull them under the law, but 445 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 2: the result is that their resources are going to be 446 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 2: extracted and other people will get rich off of them 447 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:25,560 Speaker 2: instead of the indigenous people themselves. In other words, there 448 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,800 Speaker 2: is no world in which extraction is not the point. 449 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:31,640 Speaker 2: We're going to get into this mindset and more depth 450 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,879 Speaker 2: in an upcoming episode, but for now, it's important to 451 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:38,440 Speaker 2: understand that this is the sort of paradigm colonizers have 452 00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:43,000 Speaker 2: been trying to impose on indigenous people for centuries, so 453 00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 2: not exactly a novel economic theory. This idea shows up 454 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:51,360 Speaker 2: in Canada a couple of years later, when conservatives put 455 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 2: out a bunch of papers in the wake of indigenous 456 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 2: led protests. The McDonald Laurier Institute, another Atlas Network think 457 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:02,800 Speaker 2: tank and a partner of the Freezer Institute, is the 458 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:04,400 Speaker 2: source we have. 459 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:07,760 Speaker 8: You go back over fifty sixty years in mining sector 460 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,280 Speaker 8: and indigenous communities did not always get along well. There 461 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 8: were actually some serious problems that emerged sort of over time. 462 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 8: We know now that indigenous communities must be key partners 463 00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:18,600 Speaker 8: in the mining process. 464 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:25,640 Speaker 2: More recently, starting around twenty nineteen, mcgott Wade, the leader 465 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:30,720 Speaker 2: of Atlas's Center for African Prosperity, began repeating a lot 466 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:34,680 Speaker 2: of these same talking points in discussions about climate action 467 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 2: and development in Africa. 468 00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 14: My first company, we had started a nonprofit because my 469 00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 14: goal was how can I help replicate whatever success I 470 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:47,640 Speaker 14: was able to have. How can I help many of 471 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:51,920 Speaker 14: the magots or my male counterparts from Africa do exactly 472 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 14: what I did with whatever product they deemed to. 473 00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:54,160 Speaker 3: Do it with. 474 00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,440 Speaker 2: How could I help with that? And it is doing 475 00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:58,040 Speaker 2: that journey. 476 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 14: But I eventually even I learned about the work of 477 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:04,040 Speaker 14: Hernando de Soto, and when I heard about his work, 478 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:06,960 Speaker 14: he was right there telling me, Magatt, what you went 479 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:10,720 Speaker 14: through is not an anecdote. This is very very something 480 00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:14,640 Speaker 14: very systemic about this, and it is called economic freedom. 481 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:21,520 Speaker 2: Atlas Network members are not just loosely affiliated organizations. They 482 00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:25,280 Speaker 2: meet up frequently throughout the year in both regional and 483 00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:31,760 Speaker 2: international events, liberty forums. They show up on each other's podcasts, 484 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:37,400 Speaker 2: They publish papers together. In the nineties, Chaffwin bragged about 485 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,240 Speaker 2: how the Atlas Network was an early adopter of the 486 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:44,920 Speaker 2: Internet in order to stay connected and share ideas more easily. 487 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:48,360 Speaker 2: There's also a ton of overlap between people who work 488 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:52,600 Speaker 2: for the mothership, the Atlas Network organization, and people who 489 00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:55,600 Speaker 2: work for various member think tanks, with folks moving in 490 00:30:55,800 --> 00:31:00,160 Speaker 2: and out of those orbits pretty frequently. Chaffwin himself, when 491 00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,400 Speaker 2: he left the Atlas Network in twenty eighteen, went on 492 00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:06,480 Speaker 2: to lead an Atlas Network member think tank called the 493 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:11,800 Speaker 2: Actin Institute. The Actin Institute is the home of another 494 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:16,440 Speaker 2: really good example of how ideas spread through the Atlas Network. 495 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:20,120 Speaker 2: It has pushed a sort of religious form of climate 496 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:24,320 Speaker 2: denial for a really long time. It has often talked 497 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 2: about environmentalists and climate activists as being religiously driven a cult, 498 00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:32,560 Speaker 2: that sort of thing. This is an idea that you 499 00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:35,960 Speaker 2: start to see reverberate through the ATLAS network. In fact, 500 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:39,480 Speaker 2: we just heard Bella Debrera with the Institute for Public 501 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:43,400 Speaker 2: Affairs and ATLAS member think tank in Australia talking that 502 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:48,000 Speaker 2: way in last week's episode. The Heritage Foundation and the 503 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:51,480 Speaker 2: Cato Institute in the US talk this way too, and 504 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,840 Speaker 2: the Cornwall Alliance, a group of faith based think tanks 505 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:58,200 Speaker 2: incubated by the Actin Institute, put out a twelve part 506 00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:02,640 Speaker 2: series of videos on this topic called Resisting the Green Dragon. 507 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:05,120 Speaker 2: Here's a snippet from the trailer. 508 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 6: In what has become one of the greatest deceptions of 509 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:14,640 Speaker 6: our day, radical environmentalism is striving to put America and 510 00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:20,400 Speaker 6: the world under its destructive control. This so called green 511 00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:24,520 Speaker 6: Dragon is seducing your children in our classrooms and popular culture. 512 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:28,600 Speaker 6: It's less for political power now extends to the highest 513 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:32,680 Speaker 6: global levels, and its twisted view of the world elevates 514 00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:36,040 Speaker 6: nature above the needs of people of even the poorest 515 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:40,479 Speaker 6: and the most helpless. With millions falling prey to its 516 00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:41,880 Speaker 6: spiritual deception. 517 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:45,200 Speaker 2: The time is now to stand and resist. 518 00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:52,000 Speaker 8: The religious and political environmental movement, what we call the 519 00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:55,680 Speaker 8: Green Dragon, has become one of the greatest threats to society. 520 00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:57,200 Speaker 2: And the Church in our day. 521 00:32:57,800 --> 00:32:59,680 Speaker 15: Taking care of the earth sounds like a good idea 522 00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:02,880 Speaker 15: because it is a good idea. What most Christians don't 523 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:08,160 Speaker 15: understand is that environmentalism is a whole worldview. It offers 524 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 15: its own doctrines of God, of creation, of humanity, of sin, 525 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:13,760 Speaker 15: and of redemption. 526 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:16,600 Speaker 2: I think the fear mongering is and again a lot 527 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:20,000 Speaker 2: of this stuff ends up making its way into public 528 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:24,800 Speaker 2: policy discussions and legislation. In twenty nineteen, for example, an 529 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:28,960 Speaker 2: Atlas Network group called Policy Exchange in the UK put 530 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:33,680 Speaker 2: out a paper about extinction rebellion. It was called Extremism Rebellion, 531 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,320 Speaker 2: and it talked about how extinction rebellion were extremists and 532 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:40,640 Speaker 2: terrorists and potentially dangerous, and that something needed to be 533 00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:45,400 Speaker 2: done about this new form of radical climate protest. Here's 534 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:47,880 Speaker 2: one of the authors of that paper, Richard Wolton, who 535 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:51,720 Speaker 2: was a senior fellow with Policy Exchange, advocating for a 536 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:56,520 Speaker 2: nationwide police response to extinction rebellion and for new legislation 537 00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:58,120 Speaker 2: around protest. 538 00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,360 Speaker 7: Engaged in organized criminality on the law scale, and their 539 00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:06,680 Speaker 7: sort of tactics is one of civil resistance, a civil 540 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:12,200 Speaker 7: resistance model that is based on illegal action so I 541 00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:16,480 Speaker 7: think what we saw of the weekend with the blockading 542 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:21,840 Speaker 7: of the various news print outlets was a form of anacheism. Effectively, 543 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:25,880 Speaker 7: it was rather typical. This is a group that rejects 544 00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:29,440 Speaker 7: democracy and the liberal free market economy and explicitly sinks 545 00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:30,359 Speaker 7: to overturn both. 546 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:34,160 Speaker 2: Just a couple of years later, the UK passed a 547 00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:40,040 Speaker 2: new policing bill explicitly to deal with extinction rebellion style tactics, 548 00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:44,040 Speaker 2: and in twenty twenty three, at a summer garden party 549 00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:48,279 Speaker 2: for Policy Exchange, UK Prime Minister Rishi Sunak thanked them 550 00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,600 Speaker 2: for helping to draft that bill. Similar things have happened 551 00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:56,360 Speaker 2: in the US, where industry drafted legislation that was created 552 00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:59,720 Speaker 2: in the week of the Standing Rock protests was spread 553 00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:04,200 Speaker 2: to multiple states by another Atleas Network group, the American 554 00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:10,000 Speaker 2: Legislative Exchange Council or ALEC. Sometimes it's less explicit than 555 00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:14,320 Speaker 2: writing legislation. Here's Magot weigh again at an Atlas Network 556 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:18,360 Speaker 2: Liberty forum, talking about how she has managed to shift 557 00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:23,600 Speaker 2: the conversation around climate action, particularly at the international level. 558 00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:27,040 Speaker 14: It's not that we don't care about the climate change. 559 00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:30,640 Speaker 14: I certainly care about Earth. I care about the environment. 560 00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:35,040 Speaker 14: I am known for that, right, but on Earth we 561 00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:37,920 Speaker 14: also have these people. So you cannot tell me, especially 562 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:40,160 Speaker 14: if you're telling me that you care about black lives, 563 00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:43,200 Speaker 14: that black lives matter, Well, how about the fact that 564 00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:47,080 Speaker 14: you're about to mess up the place where ninety percent 565 00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:50,680 Speaker 14: of a representative of a black race lives, namely Africa. 566 00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:54,279 Speaker 14: And so this led me to having my OpEd being 567 00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:57,200 Speaker 14: published on the in the Water Journal. It's called the 568 00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:00,279 Speaker 14: cup twenty six Plan to Keep Africa Poor. So I 569 00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:05,160 Speaker 14: am saying this because this is a winnable part of 570 00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:05,760 Speaker 14: your argument. 571 00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:12,120 Speaker 2: This is really interesting because weeds talking points here don't 572 00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:16,000 Speaker 2: just mirror how the fossil fuel industry talks about Africa, 573 00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:18,960 Speaker 2: but have also started to show up all over the 574 00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:23,720 Speaker 2: conservative universe. Here she is sharing her message on Jordan 575 00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:25,799 Speaker 2: Peterson's podcast. 576 00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:28,719 Speaker 14: Oh Gee, Climate Change. I'm not even gonna go and 577 00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:33,840 Speaker 14: argue the scientific argument. I'm not. Your solution right now 578 00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:37,600 Speaker 14: is to tell me we stop all carbon emission, we 579 00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:42,360 Speaker 14: stop all fossil fuels right now, right now. But Jorda, 580 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:44,120 Speaker 14: what does that mean if we did that? What does 581 00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:45,080 Speaker 14: that mean if we did that? 582 00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:48,239 Speaker 10: Porn people will freeze in the dark and bake in 583 00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:49,760 Speaker 10: the sun while they starve. 584 00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:53,640 Speaker 14: Thank you, you just signed a death warrant for one 585 00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:58,080 Speaker 14: point three billion people, of them one billion black people, 586 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:00,480 Speaker 14: and you just told me that that matter. 587 00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:07,240 Speaker 2: And now, leading up to this year's Conference of the Parties, 588 00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:11,839 Speaker 2: the annual UN Climate Conference, the fossil fuel industry's main 589 00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:16,160 Speaker 2: message is essentially what Wade is saying, we can't deny 590 00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:20,640 Speaker 2: africa fossil fuel development, that moving off fossil fuels too 591 00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:25,960 Speaker 2: quickly will condemn Africa to poverty. We've debunked this idea 592 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:29,960 Speaker 2: many times in this podcast. What they're doing here is 593 00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:33,239 Speaker 2: cherry picking certain things and cramming them together into a 594 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:36,800 Speaker 2: simple message that resonates. But there are a lot of 595 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:40,959 Speaker 2: holes in this argument. For a start, if fossil fuel 596 00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:44,160 Speaker 2: development were the fix for energy poverty or any other 597 00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:47,000 Speaker 2: kind of poverty, than Nigeria, which has been in the 598 00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:50,640 Speaker 2: oil business for longer than any other African country and 599 00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:54,960 Speaker 2: is today the continent's largest producer, would not still be 600 00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:59,520 Speaker 2: last in the world on energy access. The fact is 601 00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:04,360 Speaker 2: a ussing both poverty and climate change is complicated, and 602 00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:07,080 Speaker 2: no one is really doing a great job of it 603 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:11,320 Speaker 2: so far. That leaves space for a simple message like 604 00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:16,520 Speaker 2: wades climate advocates just don't care about poor people to resonate, 605 00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:20,359 Speaker 2: especially when it's then repeated over and over again by 606 00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:25,239 Speaker 2: a whole ecosystem of talking heads. It's a perfect illustration 607 00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:28,880 Speaker 2: of how Fisher always talked about the think tank strategy, 608 00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:31,920 Speaker 2: that it was about getting certain ideas into the public 609 00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:35,839 Speaker 2: discourse and then leaning on influential people to repeat those 610 00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:40,160 Speaker 2: ideas and push them forward until they eventually became policy 611 00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:45,320 Speaker 2: or international diplomacy. The way many of the Atlas network 612 00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:49,040 Speaker 2: think tanks talked about youth climate protests in twenty nineteen 613 00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:52,879 Speaker 2: is another great example. It turned up in a lot 614 00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:59,160 Speaker 2: of countries, especially Australia, Canada and Sweden. Here's Joanne Tran, 615 00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:02,960 Speaker 2: a young and that the Australian Taxpayers Alliance sent to 616 00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:05,920 Speaker 2: Sky News to talk about how dumb it is to 617 00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:06,880 Speaker 2: miss school. 618 00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:10,640 Speaker 8: Just can you tell us basically, why did you decide 619 00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:13,080 Speaker 8: you wanted to stay in school on Friday. 620 00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:15,320 Speaker 16: One of the main reasons why I didn't go to 621 00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:18,239 Speaker 16: the strike on Friday was because I fundamentally disagree with 622 00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:21,680 Speaker 16: what the organization that was organizing the strike were advocating for. So, 623 00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:24,439 Speaker 16: for example, one of their policies was one hundred percent 624 00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:30,520 Speaker 16: renewables and just economically like unviable projects like that. And secondly, 625 00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:32,200 Speaker 16: I just think that we need to have a much 626 00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:35,000 Speaker 16: more informed debate about this issue. And I just don't 627 00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:38,000 Speaker 16: think a bunch of kids who don't understand the impacts 628 00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:40,840 Speaker 16: of what they're advocating for, waving around posters telling the 629 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:44,279 Speaker 16: Prime Minister to go f himself is the most is 630 00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:46,520 Speaker 16: the best? Is the informed debate that we need in 631 00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:49,960 Speaker 16: this country. And frankly, you know, just them skipping school 632 00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:50,680 Speaker 16: says a lot. 633 00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:56,760 Speaker 2: In this way. Even when Atlas Network think tanks aren't 634 00:39:56,880 --> 00:40:01,680 Speaker 2: rating legislation that criminalizes protest, they really helped to create 635 00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:06,400 Speaker 2: the conditions for legislation like that to pass. The example 636 00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:09,040 Speaker 2: we started with in Germany is a good one. You 637 00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:12,680 Speaker 2: also see this happening in Australia, and rapid crackdown on 638 00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:18,840 Speaker 2: climate protests has gone almost unnoticed even by politicians that 639 00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:23,759 Speaker 2: supposedly support climate action, because so much has happened in 640 00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:27,480 Speaker 2: the media, because there's been so much public discussion about 641 00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:31,000 Speaker 2: how radical these activists are, or how annoying, or how 642 00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:34,720 Speaker 2: these kids should just be in school when legislation passes 643 00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:38,680 Speaker 2: that criminalizes their activism. A lot more people in the 644 00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:41,800 Speaker 2: public are willing to just sort of shrug and accept it. 645 00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:44,399 Speaker 2: Here's Jeremy Walker again. 646 00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:47,640 Speaker 9: I'll throw something out into the public sphere which you'll 647 00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:50,560 Speaker 9: get a little bit depressed, and then before you know it, 648 00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:52,440 Speaker 9: a law has been. 649 00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:54,080 Speaker 2: Written. 650 00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:56,920 Speaker 9: By now you have the criminalization of what was previously 651 00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:58,920 Speaker 9: seen as legitimate civil protest. 652 00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:07,320 Speaker 2: That's it for this time. If you missed last week's 653 00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:10,719 Speaker 2: episode on Australia, go back and listen. It's very much 654 00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:14,239 Speaker 2: tight into everything we were talking about today. You will 655 00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:17,920 Speaker 2: hear lots of other examples in countries where the Alice 656 00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:21,440 Speaker 2: Network is very active throughout this season as well, so 657 00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:25,320 Speaker 2: come back for that, and of course we'll be covering 658 00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:32,479 Speaker 2: lots of other topics throughout this season too. The Real 659 00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:36,399 Speaker 2: Free Speech Threat is a cross border reporting project from 660 00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:41,120 Speaker 2: our newly expanded Drilled Global team. Our senior editor for 661 00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:43,440 Speaker 2: the series is Alan Brown. 662 00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:47,719 Speaker 17: Sarah Ventry and Martin Seltz Austweak as senior producers. Sound 663 00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:51,520 Speaker 17: design and scoring also by Martin Saltz Austweek, who composed 664 00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:53,200 Speaker 17: much of the music in news episode. 665 00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:57,719 Speaker 2: Peter Duff is our audio engineer. Additional reporting for this 666 00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:03,120 Speaker 2: episode was contributed by Jeff Demi Key, Juliana Marulo, Lindall Rollins, 667 00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:04,400 Speaker 2: and Marlow Starling. 668 00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:09,560 Speaker 17: Fact checking by woudn Jan, Legal review by James Wheeton. 669 00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:13,840 Speaker 17: Our artwork is by Matt Fleming. Our theme song is 670 00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:17,080 Speaker 17: but in the Hand by four Known. 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If you'd like to support our work, 683 00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:58,440 Speaker 2: please leave us a rating or review, share. 684 00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:00,960 Speaker 17: Links to our stories, or upgrade to a paid newsletter 685 00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:04,440 Speaker 17: or podcast subscription for access to add free early release 686 00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:08,399 Speaker 17: episodes and bonus content. Thanks for listening, and we'll see 687 00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:09,040 Speaker 17: you next week.