WEBVTT - “I LEFT THE MENNONITE COMMUNITY” 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:03.960 Oh, hello this man? 0:00:04.920 --> 0:00:08.479 Hi? Who is this? Who? Oh? 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:08.880 Man? 0:00:09.440 --> 0:00:09.680 Hey? 0:00:10.039 --> 0:00:13.200 Kick? Hey is John? How are you doing? 0:00:14.040 --> 0:00:17.119 John? What's up? John? How's how's life? Brother? Have we 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:18.000 ever spoken before? 0:00:19.400 --> 0:00:23.439 No, man, I tripped over your thing. I was like 0:00:23.520 --> 0:00:27.200 doom scrolling on some terrible political crap and there is 0:00:27.320 --> 0:00:30.480 like this green guy talking about people and I think 0:00:30.520 --> 0:00:33.239 some of the was tightened boogers under their desk, and 0:00:33.360 --> 0:00:34.680 I could not get enough. 0:00:34.960 --> 0:00:39.840 Rock and roll, Man, rock and roll. 0:00:40.040 --> 0:00:41.159 I'll tell you. 0:00:41.240 --> 0:00:42.160 Yeah, go ahead. 0:00:43.040 --> 0:00:47.000 I'm just gonna say I have been spiraling on like 0:00:47.159 --> 0:00:50.000 trying to like help people and give them advice. And 0:00:50.040 --> 0:00:51.760 one of the big things have been telling everybody's dude, 0:00:51.800 --> 0:00:53.720 you got this problem, you should go to therapy. I've 0:00:53.720 --> 0:00:57.920 never gone to therapy, and I'm listening to you constantly say, 0:00:58.560 --> 0:01:02.280 you know, I'm a good dude in a green whatever. 0:01:02.920 --> 0:01:05.520 Maybe you could talk to someone who actually gets into 0:01:05.560 --> 0:01:08.039 this more. And I was like, that's a great point. 0:01:08.800 --> 0:01:11.520 I've been doing therapy for the past like three months 0:01:11.600 --> 0:01:15.959 and it has been bomb ass great, really so happy dude. 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:20.120 Yeah, oh that's awesome. What how has it been helpful 0:01:20.120 --> 0:01:22.280 for you? Well? 0:01:22.560 --> 0:01:27.160 I think first off, when someone gives you an opportunity 0:01:27.200 --> 0:01:29.280 to listen a lot. It gives you enough rope to 0:01:29.280 --> 0:01:32.000 start kind of hanging yourself. Yeah, so when I say 0:01:32.040 --> 0:01:35.160 something and I'm like, well, I'm a good person, but 0:01:35.200 --> 0:01:37.319 then I start like listening all the behaviors I have 0:01:37.400 --> 0:01:39.399 and it's like, okay, well I'm kind of compromising my 0:01:39.480 --> 0:01:44.040 values there. Yeah, it kind of puts a bigger spotlight 0:01:44.080 --> 0:01:46.720 on it. And I have a therapist who's really good 0:01:46.920 --> 0:01:50.480 just like letting me do that. And I'm pretty just 0:01:50.680 --> 0:01:54.720 talk a million miles an hour anyway, So dude, the 0:01:54.800 --> 0:01:56.400 number of times she just kind of says, well, you 0:01:56.520 --> 0:01:59.800 just said this and this, which one are you? And 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:02.240 it's like, well, and not that I have to choose 0:02:02.240 --> 0:02:08.040 one necessarily, but I realized I'm a very complex, contradictory person, 0:02:08.560 --> 0:02:10.040 and not necessarily in a bad way. 0:02:10.960 --> 0:02:14.359 And it says, here, you're you're forty one years old. 0:02:14.440 --> 0:02:17.360 This is your first time doing therapy in all forty 0:02:17.360 --> 0:02:18.960 one years. 0:02:19.080 --> 0:02:24.079 Yeah, I had I had a stint where growing up, 0:02:24.080 --> 0:02:26.960 I had a lot of problems with depression and I 0:02:27.040 --> 0:02:29.080 ended up with I guess it was a doctor and 0:02:29.120 --> 0:02:33.359 they did prescribe me some anti depressives that honestly were 0:02:33.440 --> 0:02:36.200 very helpful and kind of kickstarted me and got me 0:02:36.240 --> 0:02:38.600 out of my bedroom because I was just laying around 0:02:38.639 --> 0:02:42.280 at a fetal position all the time. And I thought, well, 0:02:42.320 --> 0:02:44.239 you know, that cured that I don't really need to 0:02:44.280 --> 0:02:46.560 talk about my feelings or my family or you know, 0:02:47.120 --> 0:02:49.080 am I in love with my mother or whatever weird 0:02:49.120 --> 0:02:55.160 psychologist crap. And I just kind of plowed ahead. So meanwhile, 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:59.520 it seemed like a good idea and talk. I just 0:02:59.560 --> 0:03:01.799 have too many any fears that I'm going to talk 0:03:01.840 --> 0:03:04.320 to someone who's gonna judge me, or they don't get 0:03:04.360 --> 0:03:07.440 where I'm from, or they're just gonna give me bad 0:03:07.480 --> 0:03:10.919 advice and you know, probably doesn't get covered by insurance 0:03:11.040 --> 0:03:13.840 or blah blah blah and be a waste of time. 0:03:14.360 --> 0:03:18.160 They're gonna make it worse. So I've just kind of 0:03:18.160 --> 0:03:20.440 been doing self help books like a mofo for like, 0:03:20.560 --> 0:03:23.240 I don't know, twenty years, and it's fun to read, 0:03:23.720 --> 0:03:25.520 and you know a lot of that's very applicable. 0:03:26.160 --> 0:03:34.400 So man, I mean, well, I'm curious. I guess what 0:03:34.400 --> 0:03:36.760 what are you working on? What are you trying to change? 0:03:38.520 --> 0:03:38.760 Will? 0:03:40.720 --> 0:03:44.800 Most of it's trying to stop and recognize where I'm 0:03:44.840 --> 0:03:50.920 at or what I actually want, you know, Like, I'm single, 0:03:51.640 --> 0:03:53.920 and I've been really bad at being single, Like it 0:03:53.960 --> 0:03:56.080 feels so much better to just have someone next to 0:03:56.080 --> 0:03:58.920 you who can support you, say you're attractive. 0:03:59.520 --> 0:04:02.720 You know, what does that? What does that mean? What 0:04:02.760 --> 0:04:04.560 does that mean? Being bad at being single? Do you 0:04:04.640 --> 0:04:07.160 mean do you mean you're like you just don't like it? 0:04:08.360 --> 0:04:10.320 Yeah, I just get really anxious, you know, I just 0:04:10.360 --> 0:04:12.640 want to fix that. It's a problem. I shouldn't be single. 0:04:12.640 --> 0:04:15.840 I'm kind of a lover, Like I just walk around 0:04:15.880 --> 0:04:17.840 and tell people how great they are all day. It's 0:04:18.000 --> 0:04:22.960 it's like the best thing mm hm. But meanwhile, the 0:04:23.000 --> 0:04:25.280 part where I'm alone, it's like I kind of have 0:04:25.400 --> 0:04:28.760 this picture of like the atomic family being the perfect ideal. 0:04:30.000 --> 0:04:31.880 That really stood out to me when I got divorced 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:35.920 and realized I had brushed the dream or whatever, which 0:04:35.960 --> 0:04:38.800 I had to ask myself, like, well, the dream was 0:04:39.640 --> 0:04:42.680 a husband and wife who hated each other and we're 0:04:42.800 --> 0:04:45.320 screaming at each other, and I, you know, it was 0:04:45.400 --> 0:04:49.680 a terrible household to be so choosing do I want 0:04:49.720 --> 0:04:52.039 to look like something out of a seventies family poster 0:04:52.760 --> 0:04:55.919 or but scream? You know, you know when everyone leaves, 0:04:56.400 --> 0:04:58.640 or do I want to learn how to you know, 0:04:58.960 --> 0:05:02.120 have boundaries and have a little bit of self respect, 0:05:02.480 --> 0:05:05.880 you know, be alone and I kind of go with it, 0:05:05.920 --> 0:05:08.040 Oh I should be alone? And then like I get 0:05:08.080 --> 0:05:09.960 impatient with it and I just run and finds out 0:05:09.960 --> 0:05:11.560 it make me feel better about myself. 0:05:12.400 --> 0:05:16.159 How long you've been single for since uh, the divorce 0:05:16.240 --> 0:05:17.400 or I guess I don't know if you I don't 0:05:17.440 --> 0:05:19.280 know if there were anyone in between. But how long 0:05:19.279 --> 0:05:20.880 you've been Singapore in these days? 0:05:21.680 --> 0:05:24.679 It's been a journey. Like my first marriage was ten years, 0:05:24.680 --> 0:05:27.359 the second one was like three and a half years. 0:05:27.400 --> 0:05:32.080 And I've dated a few people since. I think that's 0:05:32.120 --> 0:05:34.720 the longest I have not dated somebody. And it's been 0:05:34.760 --> 0:05:39.200 about five months now something like that time. 0:05:39.400 --> 0:05:43.599 But the longest you've not dated somebody since since uh? 0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:44.680 I was married? 0:05:45.560 --> 0:05:48.360 Okay, how old were you when you started dating the 0:05:48.400 --> 0:05:49.120 woman you married? 0:05:50.560 --> 0:05:53.320 I was, this is the first person I ever dated. 0:05:54.040 --> 0:05:55.760 We were like twenty. 0:05:56.400 --> 0:05:59.719 Wow, okay, yeah yeah. 0:05:59.480 --> 0:06:01.200 And so I came from it. 0:06:01.800 --> 0:06:02.359 Go ahead. 0:06:02.720 --> 0:06:06.479 It was normal to get married at twenty for that group, 0:06:06.680 --> 0:06:08.520 Like by twenty one, you should have a couple of 0:06:08.600 --> 0:06:12.720 kids and be appropriating like crazy. 0:06:12.760 --> 0:06:13.880 What is that group. 0:06:15.760 --> 0:06:21.800 Oh so my parents were kind of interestingly enough, not 0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:29.360 Christians growing up necessarily, but they both became non denominational Christians, 0:06:29.520 --> 0:06:32.320 and then they became Southern Baptist Christians, and then they 0:06:32.360 --> 0:06:36.600 became Menonites, which are kind of like Amish, but like 0:06:37.080 --> 0:06:40.480 they have cars, they use computers, but they like don't 0:06:40.480 --> 0:06:44.560 do video games or CDs or that kind of thing. 0:06:44.680 --> 0:06:47.520 The women wear head coverings and dresses, and the men 0:06:47.640 --> 0:06:51.320 go and do construction work and do simple living kind 0:06:51.320 --> 0:06:55.440 of thing. I was pretty tempted. I will say simple 0:06:55.520 --> 0:06:58.240 living takes a lot of the complexities out of your 0:06:58.240 --> 0:07:02.719 life and gives you a lot more community. But I'm 0:07:02.760 --> 0:07:05.839 just not quite a Nebraska is not quite my speed 0:07:05.920 --> 0:07:06.480 or lifestyle. 0:07:07.279 --> 0:07:11.440 How old were you when you sort of deflected away 0:07:11.440 --> 0:07:18.440 from that community. 0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:22.720 So I probably when I was about twenty two, So 0:07:22.920 --> 0:07:26.680 for about four years I wasn't officially men and like 0:07:26.720 --> 0:07:30.040 I wasn't in the club, but like I wore what 0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:35.440 they wore, and I kind of followed the rules. And meanwhile, 0:07:36.360 --> 0:07:38.440 I felt like I wanted to be a little more 0:07:38.480 --> 0:07:42.040 immersed in the world. Like they're a little more about 0:07:42.120 --> 0:07:44.880 kind of living their own life. They're not like commune 0:07:45.000 --> 0:07:48.880 kind of stuff, but they're they're definitely separated from most 0:07:48.920 --> 0:07:53.080 of society, and I'm more of a people person. So 0:07:53.680 --> 0:07:57.200 that's kind of where I wanted to go, get into 0:07:57.960 --> 0:08:02.520 child education and counsel and I ended up doing like 0:08:02.560 --> 0:08:06.760 an after school program with kids that lived in projects 0:08:06.800 --> 0:08:08.080 in rural Wyoming. 0:08:09.280 --> 0:08:11.119 Well, yeah, where'd you? Where did you go? Right after 0:08:11.200 --> 0:08:13.880 you when you were twenty two, right when you decided 0:08:13.920 --> 0:08:16.720 you did not want to be a Mennonite? I almost said, well, 0:08:17.120 --> 0:08:22.040 who's a good character from Curby? But go ahead, I need. 0:08:21.880 --> 0:08:26.000 To catch up on that. So my family men and 0:08:26.080 --> 0:08:28.200 knights are not like all over the place. So they 0:08:28.240 --> 0:08:32.920 found a local chapter that was in Nebraska, and like 0:08:32.960 --> 0:08:35.800 I said, Nebraska wasn't my speed. I ended up moving 0:08:35.800 --> 0:08:37.959 to Wyoming, which we. 0:08:37.960 --> 0:08:39.720 Had lived there a bit before. 0:08:40.400 --> 0:08:42.920 So I ended up in the middle and we like 0:08:43.000 --> 0:08:44.840 to call Wyoming nowhere and I was literally in the 0:08:44.840 --> 0:08:47.920 middle of it. So it's just kind of rural area. 0:08:47.960 --> 0:08:50.760 I lived on an Indian reservation and just kind of 0:08:51.040 --> 0:08:54.079 hung out with simple folks out there. 0:08:55.960 --> 0:08:58.920 And what was the deal with your wife? Was she 0:08:59.120 --> 0:09:03.400 also from Was she also a Metonite? And did she 0:09:03.559 --> 0:09:04.720 come with you to do all. 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:10.760 This, So she was she was a nurse, so she 0:09:10.840 --> 0:09:12.440 was not a mend and I and it wasn't like 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:17.720 forbidden love or anything. And we kind of had seen 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:20.360 each other from across the way. And I don't know, 0:09:20.960 --> 0:09:23.319 she read. When you're in a rural town and someone 0:09:23.400 --> 0:09:25.200 reads books, it's kind of like, oh my god, there's 0:09:25.200 --> 0:09:28.360 like ten of us. Not to say that rural America 0:09:28.440 --> 0:09:31.839 is illiterate, but most of my peers were wrestling and 0:09:31.880 --> 0:09:34.920 playing football and high five and and stuff. And I 0:09:35.000 --> 0:09:36.719 don't know. She was someone who just wanted to talk 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:39.240 about her feelings. And we had a lot in common 0:09:39.280 --> 0:09:41.880 that way. And so it's if everyone else is that 0:09:41.960 --> 0:09:44.000 different from you and that one person is that much 0:09:44.040 --> 0:09:46.520 the same, it's like, well man, we must be like 0:09:46.600 --> 0:09:48.840 perfect for each other because we both read books. And 0:09:48.920 --> 0:09:50.080 that was a little silly. 0:09:52.360 --> 0:09:56.520 And so did she come with you when you left Nebraska? 0:09:58.000 --> 0:09:58.320 Yeah? 0:09:58.360 --> 0:10:02.760 So yeah, we actually, uh there was a small junior 0:10:02.800 --> 0:10:05.760 college in Wyoming, and I worked their IT department and 0:10:05.800 --> 0:10:10.080 she there was a nursing program there, so she actually 0:10:10.080 --> 0:10:13.480 got to uh to practice and be in the area, 0:10:13.520 --> 0:10:18.559 and she's actually still there. I left and moved to Oregon, So. 0:10:20.679 --> 0:10:23.040 I mean So look, I'm sure you talked about this 0:10:23.040 --> 0:10:25.800 a billion times and you don't have to. You don't 0:10:25.840 --> 0:10:27.120 have to talk about it if you don't want to. 0:10:27.200 --> 0:10:31.520 But you know what, how how do you think things deteriorated? 0:10:32.960 --> 0:10:33.240 Man? 0:10:33.400 --> 0:10:37.640 Yeah, I appreciate the flexibility or the choice, but I'm 0:10:37.640 --> 0:10:40.400 a very open book about it. And if anything else, 0:10:40.840 --> 0:10:44.760 I actually just talked to someone about this because they 0:10:44.800 --> 0:10:47.440 also were a Christian who just went through a divorce 0:10:47.480 --> 0:10:48.760 and they were sitting there trying to figure out how 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:50.800 they're going to sec care of their children. You know, 0:10:50.880 --> 0:10:53.760 they were no longer contributing member of society because they 0:10:53.800 --> 0:10:57.280 broke their valve. And you know, I like to speak 0:10:57.280 --> 0:11:00.199 of it and say, like, we do things that hurt people, 0:11:00.720 --> 0:11:03.520 and you hurt ourselves sometimes and it's not the end 0:11:03.559 --> 0:11:06.680 of the world. You trip and fall over, you do 0:11:06.800 --> 0:11:09.160 have to get up. And and meanwhile, like I tripped 0:11:09.160 --> 0:11:13.319 and fell over partly because well, I ended up in 0:11:13.679 --> 0:11:19.440 an emotional affair where one of my wife's friends really 0:11:19.520 --> 0:11:23.120 liked getting attention from me and it felt weird and 0:11:23.600 --> 0:11:26.720 just kind of shrugged it off. And I at the 0:11:26.760 --> 0:11:31.240 same time was partnered with somebody that was not I 0:11:31.360 --> 0:11:34.720 wouldn't say she was asexual, but we did not have 0:11:36.360 --> 0:11:39.920 physical intimacy and that was kind of tough. So in 0:11:40.040 --> 0:11:41.959 came her friend to try to fix us, and it 0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:45.800 ended up being a huge manipulation play and it hurts 0:11:46.120 --> 0:11:49.720 all three of us, Like it was what do you. 0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:50.800 What do you? What do you? What do you mean? 0:11:50.880 --> 0:11:52.760 What do you mean when you say the friend came 0:11:52.840 --> 0:11:54.240 in to try to fix you? 0:11:55.920 --> 0:12:01.760 Well, so we we were having really terrible sex and 0:12:02.320 --> 0:12:06.800 my partner wasn't having an orgasm and I could kind 0:12:06.800 --> 0:12:09.600 of tell, and I was like, hey, I I saved 0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:12.680 myself for marriage because I wanted to give you a 0:12:12.720 --> 0:12:15.040 great relationship and part of that as a physical one. 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:18.880 And she really just didn't want to open up about it, 0:12:18.920 --> 0:12:21.160 and she was very uncomfortable talking to me about it, 0:12:21.720 --> 0:12:24.040 and so she kind of confided in her friend that, 0:12:24.600 --> 0:12:28.960 you know, while she really cared about me, the physical 0:12:29.320 --> 0:12:33.520 sexual part was something was she wasn't necessarily comfortable with. 0:12:33.559 --> 0:12:37.440 She didn't know what to do. And this person was like, oh, yeah, 0:12:37.480 --> 0:12:39.240 I've had sex all the time, it's great. Let me 0:12:39.440 --> 0:12:41.640 let me try to help you out. And she kind 0:12:41.640 --> 0:12:43.880 of tried to help both of us out, but it 0:12:44.000 --> 0:12:45.920 ended up being she just kind of wanted to get 0:12:45.920 --> 0:12:47.360 my attention. I think. 0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:52.160 That when she says, let me help you out. When 0:12:52.160 --> 0:12:56.240 she says let me help you out, what is what 0:12:56.400 --> 0:12:58.920 is that? Is she being like let me fuck your 0:12:59.040 --> 0:13:02.800 husband said get let me, let's do it? What what 0:13:02.920 --> 0:13:04.760 is that? What does help you out? Man? 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:09.720 So it was really like, because she was older, it 0:13:09.760 --> 0:13:11.760 was more like, let me talk to you about it 0:13:11.880 --> 0:13:14.360 or try to explain some of this. And so she 0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:16.680 was trying to like introduce her to toys or you know, 0:13:16.720 --> 0:13:20.480 self pleasure some of this other stuff. So on paper, no, 0:13:20.760 --> 0:13:22.800 she was not like, oh, let me just reach over 0:13:22.880 --> 0:13:27.680 and jerk them off while you watch. But over time 0:13:27.960 --> 0:13:31.840 there became more opportunities, well my opportunities. But she made 0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:33.720 these places where like, oh, how about you and I 0:13:33.760 --> 0:13:35.600 talked about this a little bit. Let's let's just talk 0:13:35.600 --> 0:13:37.600 about this a little more. And what I like, Oh, 0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:40.160 by the way, here's how I enjoy having sex. Or 0:13:40.200 --> 0:13:43.120 I'm going to start touching myself and you can see 0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:46.320 how it works. And it was like I at that 0:13:46.400 --> 0:13:50.199 point knew what was happening was totally wrong, but I 0:13:50.520 --> 0:13:52.560 mean I enjoyed it. I was like, Hey, this woman 0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:54.920 is sexually aroused the family. 0:13:56.120 --> 0:14:01.080 There's a Family Guy episode where I don't know if 0:14:01.080 --> 0:14:02.320 you know what I'm talking about, but there's a Family 0:14:02.360 --> 0:14:07.960 Guy episode where Peter and Lois buy this like Couples Counseling, 0:14:09.400 --> 0:14:15.079 uh videotape and they're they're in bed together watching the 0:14:15.200 --> 0:14:21.440 videotape and uh, the woman on the videotape says, now, 0:14:21.480 --> 0:14:24.240 this is the part where the wife can leave the 0:14:24.320 --> 0:14:26.400 room and I'm just going to talk to the husband, 0:14:26.720 --> 0:14:29.520 and so Lois leaves the room and then the rest 0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:32.200 of the tape is just the woman like taking off 0:14:32.280 --> 0:14:35.240 all of her clothes and it's a porn and this 0:14:35.360 --> 0:14:40.840 kind of this kind of reminds me of that Family episode. 0:14:41.040 --> 0:14:44.080 Yeah, I'm not gonna lie. I have always kind of 0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:48.280 been attracted to older women, Like my first crushes were 0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:52.280 like Mary Poppins and my friend's moms, And so this 0:14:52.320 --> 0:14:54.480 part where this older woman was like, oh, I'll kind 0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:56.120 of talk to you about sex, and then also like 0:14:56.200 --> 0:14:59.240 I'm gonna wear super low cut tops and just flirt 0:14:59.320 --> 0:15:01.320 with you a lot and like say you're special. But 0:15:01.400 --> 0:15:04.640 all like this is and believe me, I know exactly 0:15:04.680 --> 0:15:06.920 the episode you're talking about, and that definitely I was like, 0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:10.360 oh my god, that was supposed to be a stupid joke, 0:15:10.400 --> 0:15:11.760 and it's like it's literally real. 0:15:12.600 --> 0:15:18.640 So now when when you say when you say emotional affair, 0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:20.840 does that mean like, I mean did you? Did you 0:15:20.880 --> 0:15:23.640 and this older woman have sex? Man? 0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:27.280 I you know, not that I actually wish I should did, 0:15:27.360 --> 0:15:29.440 but I kind of figure I got in enough trouble 0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:33.600 I might as well have. I literally didn't though, No, 0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:38.200 no like physical end pleasure whatsoever. I really didn't want 0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:42.160 to sleep with another woman other than my wife, and 0:15:42.240 --> 0:15:44.000 I really. 0:15:45.360 --> 0:15:46.040 Like to do that. 0:15:46.320 --> 0:15:49.440 Okay, so you did. You did not cheat on your wife. 0:15:50.720 --> 0:15:53.080 Not not with my penis, And it's that's true. 0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:56.040 So it was just so it was just you were 0:15:56.040 --> 0:16:00.640 forming this emotional connection with this woman. Yeah, way that 0:16:01.720 --> 0:16:05.360 your wife did not know about, right. 0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:08.640 I mean they kind of talked about it. Like there 0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:11.280 is one point where I was watching TV and they 0:16:11.280 --> 0:16:13.920 were having some kind of like sexy pillow party in 0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:16.000 the other room and they're like, then you should come 0:16:16.080 --> 0:16:17.920 join us, and I was like, oh, no, no way 0:16:17.920 --> 0:16:19.800 am I going in there. And they both grabbed me 0:16:19.880 --> 0:16:21.960 and they were like wrestling with me, and I was like, 0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:26.240 this is ridiculous, and I guess they're just trying to 0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:29.680 mess with me. So from stuff like that, I would 0:16:29.680 --> 0:16:31.600 ask my wife like, does that say normal to you? 0:16:31.640 --> 0:16:31.840 Like that? 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:36.600 That seems like a bit much like again the Family 0:16:36.640 --> 0:16:40.040 Guy episode, it's like, is this was was your was. 0:16:39.960 --> 0:16:44.240 Your was your wife? Was your wife also into this woman? 0:16:47.320 --> 0:16:55.080 I don't know a lot about my ex's sexual interests, 0:16:55.120 --> 0:16:59.200 to be honest, like could she be uh, somewhere on 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:02.680 the spectrum just you know, not just sis gien? Possibly, 0:17:03.200 --> 0:17:05.280 but she really never opened up to me about it, 0:17:05.320 --> 0:17:09.720 so I don't know, but I wouldn't rule it out. 0:17:10.240 --> 0:17:12.960 I mean I kind of wondered, like because she didn't 0:17:12.960 --> 0:17:15.560 seem to be really into me, but like she liked me. 0:17:15.720 --> 0:17:17.159 We were really good friends. 0:17:19.480 --> 0:17:22.800 So this led to the end of that marriage. 0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:27.520 Yeah, it did not work out after that, the part 0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:32.440 where our friend started touching herself and having orgasms in 0:17:32.480 --> 0:17:34.719 front of me, I was like, Okay, that's wrong, We've 0:17:34.760 --> 0:17:38.000 actually gone too far. And meanwhile I was like, there's 0:17:38.000 --> 0:17:39.800 no way I can tell my wife about this, And 0:17:39.840 --> 0:17:42.119 I hid it from her for about six months, but 0:17:42.240 --> 0:17:44.280 it bothered me so bad that one day I just 0:17:44.680 --> 0:17:49.600 like came out and she was mortified and really upset, 0:17:49.800 --> 0:17:52.920 and I think her explanations like not telling me was 0:17:52.960 --> 0:17:57.800 even worse than the fact that it happened. And meanwhile 0:17:57.920 --> 0:18:00.360 there was it was very difficult to find and any 0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:03.840 kind of trust, for we didn't have a lot of tools. Frankly, 0:18:03.880 --> 0:18:05.840 we were both very immature children at the time. 0:18:06.800 --> 0:18:09.480 How old are you, guys. 0:18:09.440 --> 0:18:14.040 Boy, boy, that must have all fallen apart together for 0:18:14.119 --> 0:18:17.960 nine years. I was probably like twenty nine to thirty 0:18:18.200 --> 0:18:21.000 by the time it all blew up, And I would 0:18:21.040 --> 0:18:24.879 say that my relationship and marriage was pretty unhealthy, so 0:18:24.920 --> 0:18:27.720 I didn't do a lot of growing from twenty to thirty. 0:18:28.080 --> 0:18:30.960 I mentioned you mentioned at the beginning of this call 0:18:31.040 --> 0:18:33.160 that there was a lot of like screaming and fighting 0:18:33.240 --> 0:18:35.000 and stuff. Was that this marriage or was that the 0:18:35.000 --> 0:18:35.679 second one? 0:18:36.800 --> 0:18:40.520 You know, it was kind of more my second. But 0:18:40.880 --> 0:18:42.399 I would say that there was a lot of times 0:18:42.480 --> 0:18:45.720 where I just didn't know how to emotionally regulate. That 0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:48.240 was not something that I learned how to do until 0:18:48.280 --> 0:18:54.080 I was like thirty five. I'd say that it's crazy 0:18:54.080 --> 0:18:55.760 how many books are out there that have like really 0:18:55.760 --> 0:18:59.159 basic information on just the breathing, you know, that can 0:18:59.240 --> 0:19:01.040 help a ton with that kind of stuff. 0:19:01.480 --> 0:19:03.879 You didn't feel like you knew how to emotionally regulate 0:19:03.960 --> 0:19:08.359 until you were thirty five. Yeah, I had idea, well 0:19:08.400 --> 0:19:12.400 what do you well, Well, I guess, well, what how 0:19:12.400 --> 0:19:14.639 do you define emotionally regulating? 0:19:16.320 --> 0:19:18.880 Well, A lot of it for me is being able 0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:22.520 to understand when I'm not happy, if something displeases me. 0:19:23.160 --> 0:19:24.320 I mean, at first, it's just. 0:19:24.240 --> 0:19:26.760 Going to annoy me. Eventually, if I leave it there, 0:19:27.440 --> 0:19:28.000 it's going to. 0:19:27.960 --> 0:19:28.720 Drive you crazy. 0:19:29.119 --> 0:19:31.520 I mean, I have a daughter and as an example, 0:19:31.600 --> 0:19:33.800 like a kid starts playing on a recorder and the 0:19:33.840 --> 0:19:36.159 first two times you hear a tweet, you know, you're like, okay, 0:19:36.920 --> 0:19:39.719 I guess she needs to learn this thing for a practice. 0:19:40.000 --> 0:19:42.119 By the time she's walking up to you, she's blown 0:19:42.200 --> 0:19:44.560 the thing in your ear and you're like, bro, you 0:19:44.640 --> 0:19:47.240 gotta stop, and you start yelling. It's like, well, I 0:19:47.240 --> 0:19:50.040 probably should have said something a minute ago, like the 0:19:50.040 --> 0:19:52.159 first three tweets where it was just too loud. We 0:19:52.200 --> 0:19:55.040 should have had a conversation and being able to look 0:19:55.040 --> 0:19:58.600 into yourself and say, you know, I really don't like this, 0:19:58.600 --> 0:20:01.440 this is not okay. This you know, compromises my values 0:20:01.640 --> 0:20:05.000 or you know, I feel disrespected. You can say that 0:20:05.080 --> 0:20:08.159 right up front. And I was a very non confrontational person, 0:20:08.880 --> 0:20:10.920 and my dad was the only person taught me how 0:20:10.960 --> 0:20:13.600 to confront people, and it was by screaming. So I 0:20:13.680 --> 0:20:17.119 either don't say anything about it or I lose my ships. 0:20:17.520 --> 0:20:21.680 And I had to find the medium ground to say 0:20:21.760 --> 0:20:24.639 I am not happy, but also I'm not freaking the 0:20:24.640 --> 0:20:31.760 fuck out right now that that's kind of like the crisis. 0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:37.120 The ability to identify and communicate your feelings. 0:20:37.840 --> 0:20:38.159 Yeah. 0:20:38.480 --> 0:20:47.520 Yeah, And so him her judgment, when did you have 0:20:47.560 --> 0:20:48.200 your kid? 0:20:49.760 --> 0:20:52.480 I had my kid and that was the second marriage actually, 0:20:53.880 --> 0:20:58.400 so I would have been about thirty's I'm bad at math. 0:20:58.600 --> 0:21:01.480 She's nine years old. Years ago, I had a baby. 0:21:02.440 --> 0:21:05.480 Okay, is it just the wandi of it? Does she 0:21:05.560 --> 0:21:06.560 have a brother or sister? 0:21:08.480 --> 0:21:12.400 Her mom has a son and daughter, so she has 0:21:12.520 --> 0:21:15.720 a brother and sister, but she's the only child that 0:21:15.800 --> 0:21:16.520 I have. 0:21:17.480 --> 0:21:19.560 Okay, how is being a father? 0:21:21.080 --> 0:21:24.200 Oh dude? You know, I never wanted to pro create, 0:21:24.280 --> 0:21:27.000 really like, it never occurred to me that I should 0:21:27.040 --> 0:21:32.600 have more little knees walking around. But my partner really 0:21:32.640 --> 0:21:34.920 wanted one. It was very important to her, and I thought, hey, 0:21:34.920 --> 0:21:40.040 why not? And meanwhile, I wouldn't say it changes you 0:21:40.080 --> 0:21:43.080 as a person in terms of like some parents will say, like, well, 0:21:43.119 --> 0:21:45.119 you don't know, tell your parents, Like, actually most of 0:21:45.160 --> 0:21:48.119 it's pretty common sense and it doesn't like give you 0:21:48.200 --> 0:21:51.640 like special ability to do like parenting calculus that other 0:21:51.680 --> 0:21:55.000