WEBVTT - How to Build a Bail Fund 0:00:01.760 --> 0:00:07.280 As media. 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:12.040 Hi everyone, it's me today. It's James and I'm joined 0:00:12.039 --> 0:00:15.120 by Jake Taylor and Azalea and they're all from the 0:00:15.120 --> 0:00:17.640 Blue Ridge Community Bail Fund and we've asked them to 0:00:17.640 --> 0:00:19.960 come on today. We're recording this on what's it now, 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:24.200 the sixth of November twenty twenty three. And the reason 0:00:24.239 --> 0:00:26.720 we wanted to talk about bail funds today was that 0:00:26.840 --> 0:00:29.920 we're almost exactly a year out from the election, and 0:00:29.920 --> 0:00:33.800 we're also in the middle of a massive protest movement 0:00:33.880 --> 0:00:38.599 against the Israeli bombing of Palestine. I attended a Free 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:41.720 Palestine protest today. Lots of you will have attended them 0:00:41.720 --> 0:00:47.080 over the weekend. Normally, in this kind of current political climate, 0:00:47.080 --> 0:00:51.199 when people protest about things, or when there are elections, 0:00:51.440 --> 0:00:54.720 leads to an increased protest movement, which generally leads to 0:00:54.800 --> 0:00:57.680 more state clap down on the protest movement, which means 0:00:57.680 --> 0:01:01.360 people getting arrested, which means people get bailed out. And 0:01:01.560 --> 0:01:04.360 we have like a year until the election, so it's 0:01:04.400 --> 0:01:06.880 a good time to maybe talk about organizing. To hear 0:01:06.880 --> 0:01:08.880 from people who have been doing this for a while. 0:01:09.120 --> 0:01:12.000 Some of you will remember bailfronds through twenty twenty some 0:01:12.040 --> 0:01:14.800 of you went. Some of you will not be in 0:01:14.880 --> 0:01:17.479 countries where this is a relevant concept, but I feel 0:01:17.480 --> 0:01:20.000 think it's a very important one to talk about. So 0:01:20.880 --> 0:01:23.160 I'd like each of you guys to introduce yourselves, if 0:01:23.160 --> 0:01:24.520 you could, I. 0:01:24.440 --> 0:01:28.240 Can get started. I'm Jake Wiener. This is my second 0:01:28.319 --> 0:01:31.720 time on. I was previously on talking about a CBP 0:01:31.840 --> 0:01:35.280 one app and immigrants surveillance of the border. In my 0:01:35.360 --> 0:01:37.959 day job, I'm a lawyer at the Electronic Privacy Information 0:01:38.040 --> 0:01:41.679 Center in Washington, DC. I'm also a UVA logger AD. 0:01:42.040 --> 0:01:44.880 I've lived in Charlottesville on and off since twenty seventeen, 0:01:45.600 --> 0:01:48.000 and I've been on the board of the Bail Fund 0:01:48.120 --> 0:01:49.680 for about a year and a half now. 0:01:50.200 --> 0:01:52.760 Yeah. My name is Taylor and I've lived in Charlesto 0:01:52.800 --> 0:01:55.640 pretty much my whole life for work. I'm a carpenter 0:01:55.840 --> 0:01:59.640 and I've been on the Bail Fund here since twenty 0:01:59.680 --> 0:02:02.840 twenty a couple of months. I wasn't here for the start, 0:02:02.880 --> 0:02:06.160 but joined quickly after it got founded. 0:02:06.280 --> 0:02:10.400 And I think, Yeah, I'm Azalea. 0:02:10.760 --> 0:02:14.600 I'm a twoall at Uba law I'm originally from Chicago, 0:02:15.240 --> 0:02:19.320 grew up in a very proud Mexican Mexican American community. 0:02:20.440 --> 0:02:24.920 I have lived in the Pacific, Northwest, North Carolina, most 0:02:24.960 --> 0:02:29.960 recently DC, so various cities and places throughout the country. 0:02:30.639 --> 0:02:34.400 Nice, excellent, We've got so I think to start off with, 0:02:34.560 --> 0:02:36.520 just in case we've got folks who are not in 0:02:36.560 --> 0:02:39.600 the US, or maybe I'm not familiar, can one if 0:02:39.600 --> 0:02:41.760 you explain to us what bail is? 0:02:42.480 --> 0:02:47.200 Yeah. So, in the American legal system, we have a 0:02:47.240 --> 0:02:51.760 pretty unique concept, which is, after you're arrested for a crime, 0:02:52.840 --> 0:02:56.640 or if you're detained as an immigrant, you are they 0:02:56.639 --> 0:02:59.639 going to go in front of a magistrate who will 0:02:59.639 --> 0:03:03.120 decide whether you get out of jail right now or 0:03:03.160 --> 0:03:07.040 whether you have to wait. And most countries in the world, 0:03:07.200 --> 0:03:09.760 that's surely a question of how likely you are to 0:03:09.800 --> 0:03:12.560 show up to court and how dangerous you might be 0:03:12.600 --> 0:03:15.040 to the community. Right Obviously, they're not going to let 0:03:15.080 --> 0:03:19.400 out someone who's just like killed eight people. That seems 0:03:19.440 --> 0:03:21.800 like it might be a little unsafe. In America, we 0:03:21.840 --> 0:03:25.920 do things a little differently. In almost every state and 0:03:25.919 --> 0:03:31.200 almost every municipality, we have cash bail, which means when 0:03:31.240 --> 0:03:33.200 you go in front of a magistrate, they will decide 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:36.520 how much money you need to pay. To get out 0:03:36.680 --> 0:03:40.720 of jail. And theoretically this is to ensure that you 0:03:40.760 --> 0:03:43.480 show up to court. So when you go to court, 0:03:43.800 --> 0:03:45.760 your case gets finalized, then you're going to get that 0:03:45.760 --> 0:03:50.720 bail money back. For most defenses, bail is really low. 0:03:50.840 --> 0:03:54.080 We're talking about five hundred one thousand up to maybe 0:03:54.080 --> 0:04:00.920 five thousand dollars for misdemeanors of a nonviolent felonies. Now, obviously, 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:03.840 if you are a person of means, that's really easy 0:04:04.200 --> 0:04:06.600 to come up with some money, have a family member 0:04:06.600 --> 0:04:09.520 come post it, or to go get a bail bondsman. 0:04:09.560 --> 0:04:11.640 If you go to a bail bondsman, they are going 0:04:11.680 --> 0:04:13.760 to charge you about ten percent of the cost of 0:04:13.800 --> 0:04:16.760 your bonds. So if you have a five thousand dollars bond, 0:04:16.800 --> 0:04:18.560 that's about five hundred bucks. You're not going to get 0:04:18.600 --> 0:04:20.280 that money back, but then you don't have anything out 0:04:20.279 --> 0:04:24.720 of pocket. But for a lot of people, the criminal 0:04:24.800 --> 0:04:27.680 legal system mostly arrests people for crimes of poverty and 0:04:27.720 --> 0:04:30.159 drug addiction. Is that's the majority of people who go 0:04:30.160 --> 0:04:33.240 through the system. They do not have the money to 0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:36.320 go get a bail bondsman, which is so we regularly 0:04:36.400 --> 0:04:39.640 get calls from people who don't have one hundred five 0:04:39.720 --> 0:04:43.400 hundred dollars to get out of jail. That's where the 0:04:43.400 --> 0:04:46.919 bail fund comes in. We pay people's bonds, no questions asked. 0:04:48.520 --> 0:04:51.640 Nice I'd also like to add that, in addition to 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:56.800 a lot of drug charges, a lot of ways that 0:04:57.040 --> 0:05:00.320 people end up in jail is through traffic stock ups 0:05:00.320 --> 0:05:04.840 and traffic violations. Something as minor as a back tail 0:05:04.920 --> 0:05:09.560 light not being fully lit and that then gives officers 0:05:09.880 --> 0:05:13.600 pays an excuse to proceed from there. So something as 0:05:13.600 --> 0:05:15.760 simple as you know, you didn't get to go to 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:20.200 the mechanic to have your back tail light fixed, can 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:23.080 lead to all sorts of issues down the road of 0:05:23.680 --> 0:05:27.120 ending up at shail, unfortunately in this wonderful country. 0:05:27.680 --> 0:05:31.240 Yeah, it's yeah, it's certainly pretty mess to death line, 0:05:31.240 --> 0:05:33.520 it's good that we have you guys to help kind 0:05:33.520 --> 0:05:36.919 of while we're working on having a better system, I 0:05:36.920 --> 0:05:38.840 guess we can make this one a little bit less painful, 0:05:38.920 --> 0:05:41.960 especially for people who are not people of means. So 0:05:43.160 --> 0:05:47.240 with your bail fund, perhaps you could explain, like, obviously, 0:05:47.240 --> 0:05:49.360 some of those better amounts you've posted, even the once 0:05:49.400 --> 0:05:51.960 you said that were relatively low, there's still a lot 0:05:52.000 --> 0:05:55.559 of money. So you guys have had the bail fund 0:05:55.640 --> 0:05:58.919 for three and a bit years now, How did you 0:05:59.200 --> 0:06:02.760 go about starting a bail fund? And then I guess 0:06:02.960 --> 0:06:05.320 what are the different roles that ETV plays within it? 0:06:05.360 --> 0:06:08.320 Now? Sure I can talk about a little bit how 0:06:08.320 --> 0:06:11.800 it got started. It got started in twenty twenty. I'm 0:06:11.800 --> 0:06:15.360 not one hundred percent sure, but it's about the spring 0:06:15.560 --> 0:06:17.640 or the summer, and it was pretty much right around 0:06:17.960 --> 0:06:20.320 the time, you know, George Floyd got murdered and all 0:06:20.360 --> 0:06:22.960 the protest was going on. It was started by a 0:06:22.960 --> 0:06:26.480 group of four or five law students at UVA, and 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:29.599 since the founding they've all graduated and moved on to 0:06:29.640 --> 0:06:33.080 other things. But that was the time when it was 0:06:33.160 --> 0:06:35.279 it was relatively easy. There was a lot of people 0:06:35.320 --> 0:06:37.200 donating money, so we were able to raise quite a 0:06:37.240 --> 0:06:40.880 bit of money at that time. And the way the 0:06:40.960 --> 0:06:44.360 bonds work is that we paid the bond and then 0:06:44.600 --> 0:06:46.840 as the case as the person goes through the court 0:06:46.880 --> 0:06:49.599 system and the case gets finalized, money gets returned to 0:06:49.680 --> 0:06:52.200 us and we're able to use that money to post 0:06:52.279 --> 0:06:56.440 bonds again. And so with even a relatively small amount 0:06:56.600 --> 0:06:59.320 I believe we have now we have forty thousand dollars. 0:06:59.440 --> 0:07:02.400 We're able to post a lot of bonds, up to 0:07:02.720 --> 0:07:05.799 nearly two hundred thousand dollars so far in bonds posted, 0:07:06.400 --> 0:07:09.320 and so that's like it's a self sustaining process. Like 0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:12.000 it can sometimes take up to a year to get 0:07:12.040 --> 0:07:16.000 the money back. But instead of you know, paying the 0:07:16.000 --> 0:07:18.360 money and it being gone forever with the bail bondsmen like, 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:21.120 we're able to continuously do this and get a lot 0:07:21.160 --> 0:07:23.400 done with a little bit of money relatively. 0:07:23.760 --> 0:07:25.840 Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. You can keep 0:07:25.880 --> 0:07:30.240 it moving through the system, I guess. So when you 0:07:30.280 --> 0:07:33.200 guys like that, you said you had that forty grand, right, 0:07:33.200 --> 0:07:34.960 where did that come from? How how did you guys 0:07:34.960 --> 0:07:36.000 obtain that forty grand? 0:07:37.080 --> 0:07:40.320 Just donations from individuals pretty much? Yeah, I think, like 0:07:40.560 --> 0:07:43.800 I think there were some larger donations in the five 0:07:43.800 --> 0:07:46.880 thousand dollars range from organizations at the time, but and 0:07:46.920 --> 0:07:49.040 then since then it's kind of trickled in, you know, 0:07:49.200 --> 0:07:54.760 and I think I've donated my money sometimes it's yeah. 0:07:54.880 --> 0:07:57.680 Yeah, it's very important thing. So perhaps you could can 0:07:57.720 --> 0:07:59.440 you give us a just we get it like get 0:07:59.440 --> 0:08:00.720 it in at the top the episode, is there a 0:08:00.720 --> 0:08:02.320 link where people can donate they'd like to. 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:07.760 Yeah, we absolutely need your donations. Bail funds around the 0:08:07.760 --> 0:08:10.760 country have had fundraising dry up, and right now we 0:08:10.800 --> 0:08:12.680 have a wait list, like people are in jail because 0:08:12.680 --> 0:08:15.680 we don't have enough money, So please donate to us. 0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:20.520 We're on PayPal at PayPal dot me e slash Blue 0:08:20.600 --> 0:08:24.120 Ridge Bail. We're also on gofund me at Blue Redge 0:08:24.120 --> 0:08:28.520 Community Bail Fund, and that information is on our Instagram, 0:08:28.640 --> 0:08:32.880 which is Ridge Bail Nice at Ridge Bail Perfect. 0:08:33.520 --> 0:08:36.360 So I think you were talking about that, like a 0:08:36.360 --> 0:08:39.080 lot of bail funds have dried up since twenty twenty, 0:08:39.120 --> 0:08:40.960 and I know that, like I've seen that in a 0:08:40.960 --> 0:08:43.839 lot of places. So there was this real little like 0:08:44.240 --> 0:08:47.640 growth in organizing in twenty twenty, right, and then obviously 0:08:47.679 --> 0:08:51.559 there's been like it just people have burnt out, people 0:08:51.600 --> 0:08:53.760 have been incarcerated in a number of things. It's made 0:08:53.800 --> 0:08:56.200 that movement hard to sustain. That we don't necessarily need 0:08:56.240 --> 0:08:57.679 to go into. But what I do want to talk 0:08:57.679 --> 0:08:59.440 about is like how you guys have been able to 0:08:59.480 --> 0:09:02.520 sustain your bail fund and keep helping people out and 0:09:02.600 --> 0:09:05.840 doing this important work. So perhaps you could explain the 0:09:05.840 --> 0:09:08.800 different roles that people play in a bail fund that 0:09:08.880 --> 0:09:10.840 people are thinking like, oh, this needs to exist in 0:09:10.840 --> 0:09:13.240 my community, Like what roles do you have, what kinds 0:09:13.240 --> 0:09:14.160 of people do you need? 0:09:15.120 --> 0:09:17.680 Sure, yeah, I think you know a lot of bill 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:21.480 funds can be strectured differently. But the way ours works 0:09:21.559 --> 0:09:23.880 and we're relatively small, and one of our works is 0:09:23.880 --> 0:09:26.360 we have a group of six of us that's on 0:09:26.400 --> 0:09:30.480 the actual board and we handle like the logistics. So 0:09:30.559 --> 0:09:34.040 I'm the chair, Jake's the treasurer azially as a board 0:09:34.040 --> 0:09:35.560 member at large, but we all kind of share the 0:09:35.559 --> 0:09:39.240 same responsibilities, which is we answer the phone, which is 0:09:39.400 --> 0:09:42.400 one of the biggest parts when people call us either 0:09:42.520 --> 0:09:45.800 from the jail or from the street, like family members 0:09:45.840 --> 0:09:49.440 and someone in jail. And then when we get a call, 0:09:49.559 --> 0:09:53.160 you know, we'll we look up the case, call the 0:09:53.200 --> 0:09:56.520 jail to find out and then then with the next 0:09:56.520 --> 0:09:58.760 step is posting the bond. And so we have a 0:09:58.800 --> 0:10:01.800 list of volunteers that their job is just to go 0:10:01.920 --> 0:10:05.920 to physically go to the jail with the cash to 0:10:05.960 --> 0:10:08.199 post the bond and sometimes you know, one of the 0:10:08.240 --> 0:10:12.640 board members will do there. So so yeah, it can 0:10:12.679 --> 0:10:16.920 be yeah, and then as far as like keeping the 0:10:17.040 --> 0:10:19.880 organization running well, Like I said, all the original board 0:10:19.880 --> 0:10:22.840 members are gone and I've been the longest running member. 0:10:23.480 --> 0:10:25.679 But we do have a lot of law students, like 0:10:25.720 --> 0:10:28.839 half our board as law students, and that presents own 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:31.280 challenges because they graduate and leave, but it also like 0:10:31.640 --> 0:10:35.440 brings fresh people into the organization. And then you know me, 0:10:35.600 --> 0:10:38.080 I live in charlesvillem here forever, which helps kind of 0:10:38.280 --> 0:10:40.160 continue with the institutional knowledge. 0:10:40.840 --> 0:10:43.360 Sure. Yeah, having that longevity I think is important. 0:10:44.440 --> 0:10:48.240 And Melissa, Jake and Taylor have done an incredible job 0:10:48.640 --> 0:10:51.440 sustaining the Bill Fund, and those of us who are 0:10:51.480 --> 0:10:53.720 law students just kind of come in and out and 0:10:53.920 --> 0:10:56.840 try to support the best we can and the limited 0:10:56.840 --> 0:11:00.400 time that we're here. Those of us who the week 0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:03.280 after the three years, Yeah. 0:11:03.120 --> 0:11:05.079 I'm sure it's still very important to have all those 0:11:05.120 --> 0:11:11.439 people on your time energy commitment. So like, just by existing, right, 0:11:11.480 --> 0:11:13.320 the bail Fund kind of points out that this is 0:11:13.920 --> 0:11:17.680 a system that is broken or it certainly doesn't work 0:11:17.720 --> 0:11:20.640 to serve people. So perhaps we could explain a little 0:11:20.679 --> 0:11:23.800 bit of that, Like in the absence of a bail fund, 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:28.120 how do things look for people who are incarcerated? 0:11:28.200 --> 0:11:28.320 Right? 0:11:28.360 --> 0:11:30.680 Like what you spoke a little bit about bail bondsman, 0:11:30.760 --> 0:11:32.880 but like perhaps you could talk about like the amount 0:11:32.920 --> 0:11:35.560 of bails and people would post for oh, it would 0:11:35.600 --> 0:11:38.640 be the amount of how it's calculated, like what it 0:11:38.640 --> 0:11:41.560 would be, and like what that would mean in terms 0:11:41.559 --> 0:11:44.280 of people being in prison, and like how long they 0:11:44.360 --> 0:11:46.360 might expect to stay in prison just because it couldn't 0:11:46.480 --> 0:11:50.280 afford that bail or in being incarcerated. I should not 0:11:50.280 --> 0:11:50.800 say prism. 0:11:50.840 --> 0:11:52.760 I guess, yeah, folks are in jail. 0:11:53.080 --> 0:11:53.320 Yeah. 0:11:54.160 --> 0:11:58.520 So the one of the cruelest parts of the American 0:11:58.600 --> 0:12:01.520 criminal justice system from an ill legal system, there's not 0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:06.120 much justice is that your freedom is contingent on having wealth. 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:11.440 So bail is for most offenses, as I've said, is 0:12:11.520 --> 0:12:15.080 quite low, and it's very not only is it they're 0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:19.280 difficult to post if you don't have anyone, but it's 0:12:19.320 --> 0:12:22.400 also you know, people are locked up because they don't 0:12:22.400 --> 0:12:25.800 have five hundred dollars. We I've gotten calls from people 0:12:25.880 --> 0:12:29.080 who have literally said, I don't have one hundred dollars 0:12:29.080 --> 0:12:32.120 and I don't have anyone on the outside, and I've 0:12:32.120 --> 0:12:35.679 been sitting in jail for three months for sometimes for 0:12:35.720 --> 0:12:37.839 an offense that when they go to court was maybe 0:12:37.840 --> 0:12:41.840 only a month of jail time. People routinely will spend 0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:46.560 six months a year in jail for offenses that their 0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:49.760 total amount of jail time was a couple months, and 0:12:50.000 --> 0:12:52.920 you don't get compensated for that. Like if you spend 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:55.800 a year in jail for which means that you did 0:12:55.840 --> 0:12:57.960 eleven months that you didn't have to do, the state 0:12:58.000 --> 0:13:00.680 doesn't like cut you a check. That's like, hey, we 0:13:01.640 --> 0:13:07.080 destroyed your life for eleven months for no reason. And 0:13:07.480 --> 0:13:09.320 one of the things that is just like the most 0:13:09.320 --> 0:13:13.720 heartbreaking about doing this work but is also sometimes like 0:13:13.760 --> 0:13:17.080 it makes you feel really good, is the way that 0:13:17.160 --> 0:13:21.920 caging people just like ruins their lives. It's incredibly hard 0:13:22.000 --> 0:13:25.319 to talk to people in jail from the outside. It's 0:13:25.440 --> 0:13:29.640 very expensive. So when you're in jail, you are not talking. 0:13:29.720 --> 0:13:32.920 You're like not talking to your loved ones. You're not 0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:38.679 able to sustain a job, you're probably losing housing. It's destroying, 0:13:38.760 --> 0:13:41.800 you know, the life that you have on the outside. 0:13:42.080 --> 0:13:44.640 But the flip side is like we've gotten calls from 0:13:44.679 --> 0:13:46.760 folks who have said, like, hey, you bonded me out 0:13:46.920 --> 0:13:50.560 and now I got a new job, I got a 0:13:50.679 --> 0:13:52.680 new place to live, like I'm doing great, which is 0:13:52.679 --> 0:13:56.360 incredibly meaningful, and Taylor can probably talk a little more 0:13:56.360 --> 0:13:58.439 about what being in jail is like. 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:02.319 Thank Street. So I think one of the things that 0:14:02.360 --> 0:14:05.000 like really drew me to this work was like I'm 0:14:05.000 --> 0:14:07.920 an abolitionist, and but when I was younger, I spent 0:14:08.040 --> 0:14:11.520 two years in jail. I was twenty three, twenty three 0:14:11.520 --> 0:14:15.160 to twenty five. I was in jail for selling drugs, 0:14:16.240 --> 0:14:18.640 and I think, like, yeah, really, that's like something that 0:14:18.720 --> 0:14:24.440 really motivates me now to do this stuff. It's it's crazy, 0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:27.320 like Jake said, yeah, we've had people that one guy 0:14:27.480 --> 0:14:30.800 called and thought that we were a bailbondsman and then 0:14:31.160 --> 0:14:33.040 found out like on the phone, he's like, oh, I 0:14:33.280 --> 0:14:35.480 didn't know you guys like would pay my bond for free. 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:38.040 It was a five hundred dollars bond, so he would 0:14:38.040 --> 0:14:40.560 have to pay fifty dollars to a bail bondsman And 0:14:40.600 --> 0:14:44.400 he didn't call us for several days because he thought 0:14:44.400 --> 0:14:47.440 he has fifty dollars. So it's like, you know, I like, 0:14:47.560 --> 0:14:50.480 it's you know, we spent all this time like thinking 0:14:50.520 --> 0:14:53.480 about like leftist stuff and like, but it's it's eye 0:14:53.560 --> 0:14:56.240 opening to see people that are stuck in jail, like 0:14:56.360 --> 0:14:58.680 for a lack of one hundred dollars, you know, like 0:14:59.320 --> 0:15:01.960 and that's it. Think it out and so I think, yeah, 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:04.280 like and then sometimes people call us and they're like, 0:15:04.360 --> 0:15:08.080 I have nobody. There's nobody out outside that can help them. 0:15:08.200 --> 0:15:11.800 So it's that kind of stuff. It is upsetting, Like, yeah, 0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:14.400 it's like crazy to see this like system set up 0:15:14.440 --> 0:15:16.360 like this, but it's like it's one of the things 0:15:16.360 --> 0:15:18.600 that like really motivates me to keep doing this work. 0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:21.440 Is like, man, it's so rewarding when you get those calls. 0:15:21.720 --> 0:15:23.960 And and also I think to expand as something that 0:15:24.040 --> 0:15:29.360 Jake said about the bail system, it's like it's the magistrates. 0:15:29.360 --> 0:15:31.280 When you go in front of the magistry to get 0:15:31.320 --> 0:15:34.400 the bond. There's no the magsties have no oversight, they're 0:15:34.440 --> 0:15:37.440 not elected. It's you know, we kind of just joke 0:15:37.560 --> 0:15:40.840 like it's a vibe based system, like they just can 0:15:40.920 --> 0:15:43.240 issue a bond for however much they feel like. And 0:15:43.280 --> 0:15:44.760 so this is where you're really going to see like 0:15:44.800 --> 0:15:48.760 the structural racism and like the classes and really come 0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:52.640 crashing down on people, you know, in front of this system. 0:15:52.720 --> 0:15:56.120 So yeah, one thing that I'd like to add because 0:15:56.120 --> 0:15:59.720 I think people don't really realize is so a magistrate 0:15:59.760 --> 0:16:03.000 is working under a judge. They're basically a judge is 0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:05.720 like an appointed position or elected. You have to be 0:16:05.760 --> 0:16:07.440 a lawyer, you have to have a fair amount of 0:16:07.520 --> 0:16:11.720 legal education. Your magistrate is just some dude, like the 0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:16.280 most some dude person you've ever met. They have no 0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:20.040 training required, They have no like legal training requirements. Many 0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:23.000 of them are like fresh out of the army, may 0:16:23.280 --> 0:16:25.960 like maybe went to college, maybe didn't. So you're talking 0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:29.520 about someone who has no particular expertise in evaluating people, 0:16:30.320 --> 0:16:33.400 looking at someone for a few minutes and deciding how 0:16:33.520 --> 0:16:36.480 dangerous they are to the community and making up in 0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:39.400 their head how much that person can probably pay to 0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:42.800 get out. Yeah. 0:16:42.360 --> 0:16:47.640 I spent the summer my first year, after summer after 0:16:47.720 --> 0:16:51.920 first year of law school at the Lynchburg Public Defender Office, 0:16:51.920 --> 0:16:54.880 So I got to review a lot of bodycam footage 0:16:55.400 --> 0:16:58.120 and the way it worked with the magistrate. A lot 0:16:58.200 --> 0:17:01.320 of the times was that a police officer would give 0:17:01.320 --> 0:17:05.440 a report, an incident report, read it aloud, swear them in. 0:17:05.600 --> 0:17:08.959 They'd say, this is true, this is what happened. They 0:17:08.960 --> 0:17:12.280 would give their full report, and basically that's how it 0:17:12.320 --> 0:17:15.280 was determined whether bail would be or how much bail 0:17:15.280 --> 0:17:19.760 would be set to. It was heartbreaking and it was 0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:23.040 very it happened very quickly, like it was all based 0:17:23.480 --> 0:17:27.480 on the police officer's report and what they just decided 0:17:27.520 --> 0:17:29.679 to spew in five minutes or less. 0:17:30.680 --> 0:17:34.520 Yeah, that's yeah, it's it's a pretty messed up system. 0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:37.239 I think some states have like bail guidelines, right, if 0:17:37.240 --> 0:17:39.760 I'm not mistaken, like I think California has like you know, 0:17:39.840 --> 0:17:42.040 if you did this, if if you're accused of this offense, 0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:44.880 and then your bail goes in this bucket, and then 0:17:45.480 --> 0:17:48.119 you know if it adds up depending on offenses or 0:17:48.119 --> 0:17:49.359 conspiracy or whatever. 0:17:50.200 --> 0:17:52.639 Yeah, that's a really good point. Like the thing about 0:17:52.680 --> 0:17:55.880 bail is this different like in every state on some 0:17:55.960 --> 0:18:00.640 states you know have maybe like more progressive quote unquote, yeah, 0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:03.840 I mean, but some have, some don't. 0:18:03.840 --> 0:18:08.719 And yeah, yeah, I was going to say, like California 0:18:08.720 --> 0:18:11.639 has a reputation being progressive. San Diego has charged some 0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:14.000 of the most insanely high bail amounts I've ever seen. 0:18:15.440 --> 0:18:18.520 Although we all aspire to do what Illinois just did 0:18:18.840 --> 0:18:21.800 at the beginning of this year, which was to eliminate 0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:26.000 bail all together. It would just or cash bail all together. 0:18:26.400 --> 0:18:31.040 It would just be based on whether you can be 0:18:31.160 --> 0:18:31.800 released or not. 0:18:32.080 --> 0:18:35.199 Yeah, that would be nice. It is just to be 0:18:35.240 --> 0:18:38.800 clear that the bail isn't like it's not like the 0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:42.639 state keeps the money unless you don't show up. Like 0:18:43.119 --> 0:18:45.840 it is it a revenue generator for states. Who's just 0:18:45.880 --> 0:18:48.200 purely like a sort of punitive thing that they think 0:18:48.240 --> 0:18:52.320 has some kind of value. In that regard, it's purely punitive. 0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:55.280 The idea truly is to make sure that you show 0:18:55.359 --> 0:18:58.640 up to your court case. And in the US it's 0:18:58.640 --> 0:19:03.399 often used as a prox for dangerousness. So when you're 0:19:03.440 --> 0:19:06.040 going from a magistrate, you got three options. Number one 0:19:06.440 --> 0:19:08.680 is you get out on personal recognizance. If you're a 0:19:08.760 --> 0:19:12.520 nice white boy like me, you're getting personal recognizance almost certainly. 0:19:12.960 --> 0:19:13.200 Yeah. 0:19:14.480 --> 0:19:17.440 Option two is you're gonna have to pay cash bail, 0:19:17.920 --> 0:19:21.280 and that amount is decided by the magistrate, as you said, 0:19:21.400 --> 0:19:25.320 possibly on a schedule, possibly just whatever the magistrate feels like. 0:19:26.440 --> 0:19:28.560 And then option three is you might get no bond, 0:19:28.640 --> 0:19:30.639 which is to say that it doesn't matter how much 0:19:30.680 --> 0:19:33.879 money you have, you're not getting out of jail. And 0:19:34.080 --> 0:19:37.960 in like a functioning criminal legal system that just on 0:19:38.119 --> 0:19:42.600 its own terms like worked. This is not an abolitionist perspective. 0:19:43.760 --> 0:19:46.800 Cash bail is unnecessary. The magistrate should be deciding and 0:19:46.840 --> 0:19:50.120 the judge should be deciding whether you are a threat 0:19:50.160 --> 0:19:52.760 to the community or whether you're not, and that should 0:19:52.800 --> 0:19:55.680 be like the only option. The other thing I'll throw 0:19:55.720 --> 0:19:58.960 in here is that paying money is not the best 0:19:59.000 --> 0:20:00.479 way to make sure that people should up the core. 0:20:00.840 --> 0:20:04.240 There's extensive data from the immigration system and from the 0:20:04.600 --> 0:20:06.840 legal system that the number one best way to make 0:20:07.000 --> 0:20:08.840 sure people show up to their courte is to give 0:20:08.880 --> 0:20:09.560 them an attorney. 0:20:10.359 --> 0:20:13.239 Yeah, yeah, which is a whole other thing we can 0:20:13.240 --> 0:20:17.159 get into with the immigration So I think that's a 0:20:17.200 --> 0:20:20.440 really good kind of example of some a good deep 0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:24.400 dive into what bail is. So essentially, like a bail 0:20:24.480 --> 0:20:26.359 fund can make it so that there is not this 0:20:26.520 --> 0:20:30.159 financial burden or this financial barrier to freedom. Right, Well, 0:20:30.240 --> 0:20:32.920 you haven't meaned yet to be convicted of any crime. 0:20:34.119 --> 0:20:37.280 It's not necessarily like an abolitionist thing to exist, but 0:20:37.520 --> 0:20:40.760 like it helps at least move us towards a less cruel, 0:20:40.920 --> 0:20:45.520 a less unjust system, I suppose. So I want to 0:20:45.560 --> 0:20:49.040 talk about like a little bit of the like nuts 0:20:49.080 --> 0:20:51.760 and bolts of what it takes to run a bail fund. 0:20:52.560 --> 0:20:55.200 But before we do that, we are twenty two minutes 0:20:55.240 --> 0:20:57.680 in so talking thouts and bolts. We need to pay 0:20:57.680 --> 0:20:59.760 our bills. So this is an advert. It's probably not 0:20:59.840 --> 0:21:14.720 so that you need here, it is anyway, right, we're back. 0:21:15.320 --> 0:21:18.159 I hope you've bought whatever it was, MRIs or gone 0:21:18.200 --> 0:21:20.720 a very good dog, coins or I don't know, Hoover. 0:21:22.400 --> 0:21:26.960 So let's talk about the that Like, like, if you're 0:21:26.960 --> 0:21:28.439 listening to this and you're in your car on your 0:21:28.440 --> 0:21:31.560 way home or whatever time you're listening on a long 0:21:31.680 --> 0:21:33.680 road trip, you're thinking, I would like to be the person. 0:21:33.840 --> 0:21:37.399 Maybe you're a law student yourself, or you're formerly incarcerated person, 0:21:37.520 --> 0:21:42.240 or you've had family members go through the system and 0:21:42.359 --> 0:21:44.920 you're like, hell, yeah, this shit sucks, and I would 0:21:45.040 --> 0:21:48.280 like to help make it a little bit less sucky. 0:21:49.640 --> 0:21:52.000 When you're like, I'm thinking here, when you established a 0:21:52.000 --> 0:21:54.040