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Speaker 1: As media.

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Speaker 2: Hi everyone, it's me today. It's James and I'm joined

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Speaker 2: by Jake Taylor and Azalea and they're all from the

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Speaker 2: Blue Ridge Community Bail Fund and we've asked them to

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Speaker 2: come on today. We're recording this on what's it now,

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Speaker 2: the sixth of November twenty twenty three. And the reason

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Speaker 2: we wanted to talk about bail funds today was that

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Speaker 2: we're almost exactly a year out from the election, and

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Speaker 2: we're also in the middle of a massive protest movement

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Speaker 2: against the Israeli bombing of Palestine. I attended a Free

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Speaker 2: Palestine protest today. Lots of you will have attended them

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Speaker 2: over the weekend. Normally, in this kind of current political climate,

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Speaker 2: when people protest about things, or when there are elections,

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Speaker 2: leads to an increased protest movement, which generally leads to

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Speaker 2: more state clap down on the protest movement, which means

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Speaker 2: people getting arrested, which means people get bailed out. And

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Speaker 2: we have like a year until the election, so it's

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Speaker 2: a good time to maybe talk about organizing. To hear

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Speaker 2: from people who have been doing this for a while.

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Speaker 2: Some of you will remember bailfronds through twenty twenty some

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Speaker 2: of you went. Some of you will not be in

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Speaker 2: countries where this is a relevant concept, but I feel

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Speaker 2: think it's a very important one to talk about. So

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Speaker 2: I'd like each of you guys to introduce yourselves, if

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Speaker 2: you could, I.

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Speaker 3: Can get started. I'm Jake Wiener. This is my second

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Speaker 3: time on. I was previously on talking about a CBP

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Speaker 3: one app and immigrants surveillance of the border. In my

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Speaker 3: day job, I'm a lawyer at the Electronic Privacy Information

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Speaker 3: Center in Washington, DC. I'm also a UVA logger AD.

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Speaker 3: I've lived in Charlottesville on and off since twenty seventeen,

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Speaker 3: and I've been on the board of the Bail Fund

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Speaker 3: for about a year and a half now.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. My name is Taylor and I've lived in Charlesto

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Speaker 4: pretty much my whole life for work. I'm a carpenter

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Speaker 4: and I've been on the Bail Fund here since twenty

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Speaker 4: twenty a couple of months. I wasn't here for the start,

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Speaker 4: but joined quickly after it got founded.

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Speaker 1: And I think, Yeah, I'm Azalea.

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Speaker 5: I'm a twoall at Uba law I'm originally from Chicago,

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Speaker 5: grew up in a very proud Mexican Mexican American community.

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Speaker 5: I have lived in the Pacific, Northwest, North Carolina, most

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Speaker 5: recently DC, so various cities and places throughout the country.

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Speaker 2: Nice, excellent, We've got so I think to start off with,

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Speaker 2: just in case we've got folks who are not in

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Speaker 2: the US, or maybe I'm not familiar, can one if

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Speaker 2: you explain to us what bail is?

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Speaker 3: Yeah. So, in the American legal system, we have a

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Speaker 3: pretty unique concept, which is, after you're arrested for a crime,

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Speaker 3: or if you're detained as an immigrant, you are they

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Speaker 3: going to go in front of a magistrate who will

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Speaker 3: decide whether you get out of jail right now or

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Speaker 3: whether you have to wait. And most countries in the world,

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Speaker 3: that's surely a question of how likely you are to

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Speaker 3: show up to court and how dangerous you might be

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Speaker 3: to the community. Right Obviously, they're not going to let

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Speaker 3: out someone who's just like killed eight people. That seems

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Speaker 3: like it might be a little unsafe. In America, we

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Speaker 3: do things a little differently. In almost every state and

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Speaker 3: almost every municipality, we have cash bail, which means when

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Speaker 3: you go in front of a magistrate, they will decide

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Speaker 3: how much money you need to pay. To get out

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Speaker 3: of jail. And theoretically this is to ensure that you

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Speaker 3: show up to court. So when you go to court,

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Speaker 3: your case gets finalized, then you're going to get that

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Speaker 3: bail money back. For most defenses, bail is really low.

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Speaker 3: We're talking about five hundred one thousand up to maybe

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Speaker 3: five thousand dollars for misdemeanors of a nonviolent felonies. Now, obviously,

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Speaker 3: if you are a person of means, that's really easy

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Speaker 3: to come up with some money, have a family member

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Speaker 3: come post it, or to go get a bail bondsman.

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Speaker 3: If you go to a bail bondsman, they are going

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Speaker 3: to charge you about ten percent of the cost of

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Speaker 3: your bonds. So if you have a five thousand dollars bond,

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Speaker 3: that's about five hundred bucks. You're not going to get

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Speaker 3: that money back, but then you don't have anything out

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Speaker 3: of pocket. But for a lot of people, the criminal

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Speaker 3: legal system mostly arrests people for crimes of poverty and

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Speaker 3: drug addiction. Is that's the majority of people who go

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Speaker 3: through the system. They do not have the money to

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Speaker 3: go get a bail bondsman, which is so we regularly

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Speaker 3: get calls from people who don't have one hundred five

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Speaker 3: hundred dollars to get out of jail. That's where the

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Speaker 3: bail fund comes in. We pay people's bonds, no questions asked.

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Speaker 5: Nice I'd also like to add that, in addition to

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Speaker 5: a lot of drug charges, a lot of ways that

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Speaker 5: people end up in jail is through traffic stock ups

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Speaker 5: and traffic violations. Something as minor as a back tail

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Speaker 5: light not being fully lit and that then gives officers

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Speaker 5: pays an excuse to proceed from there. So something as

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Speaker 5: simple as you know, you didn't get to go to

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Speaker 5: the mechanic to have your back tail light fixed, can

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Speaker 5: lead to all sorts of issues down the road of

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Speaker 5: ending up at shail, unfortunately in this wonderful country.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's yeah, it's certainly pretty mess to death line,

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Speaker 2: it's good that we have you guys to help kind

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Speaker 2: of while we're working on having a better system, I

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Speaker 2: guess we can make this one a little bit less painful,

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Speaker 2: especially for people who are not people of means. So

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Speaker 2: with your bail fund, perhaps you could explain, like, obviously,

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Speaker 2: some of those better amounts you've posted, even the once

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Speaker 2: you said that were relatively low, there's still a lot

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Speaker 2: of money. So you guys have had the bail fund

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Speaker 2: for three and a bit years now, How did you

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Speaker 2: go about starting a bail fund? And then I guess

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Speaker 2: what are the different roles that ETV plays within it?

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Speaker 4: Now? Sure I can talk about a little bit how

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Speaker 4: it got started. It got started in twenty twenty. I'm

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Speaker 4: not one hundred percent sure, but it's about the spring

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Speaker 4: or the summer, and it was pretty much right around

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Speaker 4: the time, you know, George Floyd got murdered and all

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Speaker 4: the protest was going on. It was started by a

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Speaker 4: group of four or five law students at UVA, and

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Speaker 4: since the founding they've all graduated and moved on to

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Speaker 4: other things. But that was the time when it was

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Speaker 4: it was relatively easy. There was a lot of people

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Speaker 4: donating money, so we were able to raise quite a

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Speaker 4: bit of money at that time. And the way the

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Speaker 4: bonds work is that we paid the bond and then

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Speaker 4: as the case as the person goes through the court

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Speaker 4: system and the case gets finalized, money gets returned to

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Speaker 4: us and we're able to use that money to post

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Speaker 4: bonds again. And so with even a relatively small amount

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Speaker 4: I believe we have now we have forty thousand dollars.

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Speaker 4: We're able to post a lot of bonds, up to

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Speaker 4: nearly two hundred thousand dollars so far in bonds posted,

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Speaker 4: and so that's like it's a self sustaining process. Like

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Speaker 4: it can sometimes take up to a year to get

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Speaker 4: the money back. But instead of you know, paying the

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Speaker 4: money and it being gone forever with the bail bondsmen like,

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Speaker 4: we're able to continuously do this and get a lot

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Speaker 4: done with a little bit of money relatively.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. You can keep

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Speaker 2: it moving through the system, I guess. So when you

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Speaker 2: guys like that, you said you had that forty grand, right,

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Speaker 2: where did that come from? How how did you guys

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Speaker 2: obtain that forty grand?

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Speaker 4: Just donations from individuals pretty much? Yeah, I think, like

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Speaker 4: I think there were some larger donations in the five

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Speaker 4: thousand dollars range from organizations at the time, but and

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Speaker 4: then since then it's kind of trickled in, you know,

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Speaker 4: and I think I've donated my money sometimes it's yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very important thing. So perhaps you could can

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Speaker 2: you give us a just we get it like get

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Speaker 2: it in at the top the episode, is there a

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Speaker 2: link where people can donate they'd like to.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we absolutely need your donations. Bail funds around the

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Speaker 3: country have had fundraising dry up, and right now we

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Speaker 3: have a wait list, like people are in jail because

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Speaker 3: we don't have enough money, So please donate to us.

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Speaker 3: We're on PayPal at PayPal dot me e slash Blue

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Speaker 3: Ridge Bail. We're also on gofund me at Blue Redge

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Speaker 3: Community Bail Fund, and that information is on our Instagram,

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Speaker 3: which is Ridge Bail Nice at Ridge Bail Perfect.

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Speaker 2: So I think you were talking about that, like a

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Speaker 2: lot of bail funds have dried up since twenty twenty,

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Speaker 2: and I know that, like I've seen that in a

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Speaker 2: lot of places. So there was this real little like

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Speaker 2: growth in organizing in twenty twenty, right, and then obviously

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Speaker 2: there's been like it just people have burnt out, people

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Speaker 2: have been incarcerated in a number of things. It's made

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Speaker 2: that movement hard to sustain. That we don't necessarily need

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Speaker 2: to go into. But what I do want to talk

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Speaker 2: about is like how you guys have been able to

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Speaker 2: sustain your bail fund and keep helping people out and

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Speaker 2: doing this important work. So perhaps you could explain the

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Speaker 2: different roles that people play in a bail fund that

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Speaker 2: people are thinking like, oh, this needs to exist in

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Speaker 2: my community, Like what roles do you have, what kinds

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Speaker 2: of people do you need?

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Speaker 4: Sure, yeah, I think you know a lot of bill

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Speaker 4: funds can be strectured differently. But the way ours works

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Speaker 4: and we're relatively small, and one of our works is

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Speaker 4: we have a group of six of us that's on

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Speaker 4: the actual board and we handle like the logistics. So

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Speaker 4: I'm the chair, Jake's the treasurer azially as a board

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Speaker 4: member at large, but we all kind of share the

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Speaker 4: same responsibilities, which is we answer the phone, which is

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Speaker 4: one of the biggest parts when people call us either

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Speaker 4: from the jail or from the street, like family members

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Speaker 4: and someone in jail. And then when we get a call,

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Speaker 4: you know, we'll we look up the case, call the

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Speaker 4: jail to find out and then then with the next

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Speaker 4: step is posting the bond. And so we have a

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Speaker 4: list of volunteers that their job is just to go

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Speaker 4: to physically go to the jail with the cash to

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Speaker 4: post the bond and sometimes you know, one of the

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Speaker 4: board members will do there. So so yeah, it can

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Speaker 4: be yeah, and then as far as like keeping the

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Speaker 4: organization running well, Like I said, all the original board

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Speaker 4: members are gone and I've been the longest running member.

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Speaker 4: But we do have a lot of law students, like

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Speaker 4: half our board as law students, and that presents own

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Speaker 4: challenges because they graduate and leave, but it also like

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Speaker 4: brings fresh people into the organization. And then you know me,

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Speaker 4: I live in charlesvillem here forever, which helps kind of

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Speaker 4: continue with the institutional knowledge.

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Speaker 2: Sure. Yeah, having that longevity I think is important.

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Speaker 5: And Melissa, Jake and Taylor have done an incredible job

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Speaker 5: sustaining the Bill Fund, and those of us who are

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Speaker 5: law students just kind of come in and out and

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Speaker 5: try to support the best we can and the limited

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Speaker 5: time that we're here. Those of us who the week

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Speaker 5: after the three years, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure it's still very important to have all those

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Speaker 2: people on your time energy commitment. So like, just by existing, right,

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Speaker 2: the bail Fund kind of points out that this is

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Speaker 2: a system that is broken or it certainly doesn't work

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Speaker 2: to serve people. So perhaps we could explain a little

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Speaker 2: bit of that, Like in the absence of a bail fund,

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Speaker 2: how do things look for people who are incarcerated?

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Speaker 4: Right?

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Speaker 2: Like what you spoke a little bit about bail bondsman,

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Speaker 2: but like perhaps you could talk about like the amount

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Speaker 2: of bails and people would post for oh, it would

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Speaker 2: be the amount of how it's calculated, like what it

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Speaker 2: would be, and like what that would mean in terms

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Speaker 2: of people being in prison, and like how long they

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Speaker 2: might expect to stay in prison just because it couldn't

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Speaker 2: afford that bail or in being incarcerated. I should not

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Speaker 2: say prism.

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Speaker 3: I guess, yeah, folks are in jail.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So the one of the cruelest parts of the American

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Speaker 3: criminal justice system from an ill legal system, there's not

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Speaker 3: much justice is that your freedom is contingent on having wealth.

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Speaker 3: So bail is for most offenses, as I've said, is

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Speaker 3: quite low, and it's very not only is it they're

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Speaker 3: difficult to post if you don't have anyone, but it's

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Speaker 3: also you know, people are locked up because they don't

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Speaker 3: have five hundred dollars. We I've gotten calls from people

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Speaker 3: who have literally said, I don't have one hundred dollars

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Speaker 3: and I don't have anyone on the outside, and I've

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Speaker 3: been sitting in jail for three months for sometimes for

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Speaker 3: an offense that when they go to court was maybe

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Speaker 3: only a month of jail time. People routinely will spend

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Speaker 3: six months a year in jail for offenses that their

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Speaker 3: total amount of jail time was a couple months, and

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Speaker 3: you don't get compensated for that. Like if you spend

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Speaker 3: a year in jail for which means that you did

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Speaker 3: eleven months that you didn't have to do, the state

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Speaker 3: doesn't like cut you a check. That's like, hey, we

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Speaker 3: destroyed your life for eleven months for no reason. And

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Speaker 3: one of the things that is just like the most

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Speaker 3: heartbreaking about doing this work but is also sometimes like

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Speaker 3: it makes you feel really good, is the way that

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Speaker 3: caging people just like ruins their lives. It's incredibly hard

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Speaker 3: to talk to people in jail from the outside. It's

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Speaker 3: very expensive. So when you're in jail, you are not talking.

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Speaker 3: You're like not talking to your loved ones. You're not

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Speaker 3: able to sustain a job, you're probably losing housing. It's destroying,

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Speaker 3: you know, the life that you have on the outside.

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Speaker 3: But the flip side is like we've gotten calls from

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Speaker 3: folks who have said, like, hey, you bonded me out

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Speaker 3: and now I got a new job, I got a

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Speaker 3: new place to live, like I'm doing great, which is

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Speaker 3: incredibly meaningful, and Taylor can probably talk a little more

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Speaker 3: about what being in jail is like.

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Speaker 4: Thank Street. So I think one of the things that

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Speaker 4: like really drew me to this work was like I'm

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Speaker 4: an abolitionist, and but when I was younger, I spent

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Speaker 4: two years in jail. I was twenty three, twenty three

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Speaker 4: to twenty five. I was in jail for selling drugs,

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Speaker 4: and I think, like, yeah, really, that's like something that

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Speaker 4: really motivates me now to do this stuff. It's it's crazy,

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Speaker 4: like Jake said, yeah, we've had people that one guy

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Speaker 4: called and thought that we were a bailbondsman and then

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Speaker 4: found out like on the phone, he's like, oh, I

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Speaker 4: didn't know you guys like would pay my bond for free.

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Speaker 4: It was a five hundred dollars bond, so he would

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Speaker 4: have to pay fifty dollars to a bail bondsman And

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Speaker 4: he didn't call us for several days because he thought

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Speaker 4: he has fifty dollars. So it's like, you know, I like,

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Speaker 4: it's you know, we spent all this time like thinking

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Speaker 4: about like leftist stuff and like, but it's it's eye

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Speaker 4: opening to see people that are stuck in jail, like

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Speaker 4: for a lack of one hundred dollars, you know, like

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Speaker 4: and that's it. Think it out and so I think, yeah,

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Speaker 4: like and then sometimes people call us and they're like,

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Speaker 4: I have nobody. There's nobody out outside that can help them.

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Speaker 4: So it's that kind of stuff. It is upsetting, Like, yeah,

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Speaker 4: it's like crazy to see this like system set up

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Speaker 4: like this, but it's like it's one of the things

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Speaker 4: that like really motivates me to keep doing this work.

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Speaker 4: Is like, man, it's so rewarding when you get those calls.

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Speaker 4: And and also I think to expand as something that

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Speaker 4: Jake said about the bail system, it's like it's the magistrates.

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Speaker 4: When you go in front of the magistry to get

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Speaker 4: the bond. There's no the magsties have no oversight, they're

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Speaker 4: not elected. It's you know, we kind of just joke

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Speaker 4: like it's a vibe based system, like they just can

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Speaker 4: issue a bond for however much they feel like. And

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Speaker 4: so this is where you're really going to see like

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Speaker 4: the structural racism and like the classes and really come

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Speaker 4: crashing down on people, you know, in front of this system.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, one thing that I'd like to add because

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Speaker 3: I think people don't really realize is so a magistrate

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Speaker 3: is working under a judge. They're basically a judge is

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Speaker 3: like an appointed position or elected. You have to be

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Speaker 3: a lawyer, you have to have a fair amount of

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Speaker 3: legal education. Your magistrate is just some dude, like the

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Speaker 3: most some dude person you've ever met. They have no

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Speaker 3: training required, They have no like legal training requirements. Many

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Speaker 3: of them are like fresh out of the army, may

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Speaker 3: like maybe went to college, maybe didn't. So you're talking

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Speaker 3: about someone who has no particular expertise in evaluating people,

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Speaker 3: looking at someone for a few minutes and deciding how

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Speaker 3: dangerous they are to the community and making up in

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Speaker 3: their head how much that person can probably pay to

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Speaker 3: get out. Yeah.

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Speaker 5: I spent the summer my first year, after summer after

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Speaker 5: first year of law school at the Lynchburg Public Defender Office,

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Speaker 5: So I got to review a lot of bodycam footage

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Speaker 5: and the way it worked with the magistrate. A lot

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Speaker 5: of the times was that a police officer would give

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Speaker 5: a report, an incident report, read it aloud, swear them in.

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Speaker 5: They'd say, this is true, this is what happened. They

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Speaker 5: would give their full report, and basically that's how it

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Speaker 5: was determined whether bail would be or how much bail

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Speaker 5: would be set to. It was heartbreaking and it was

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Speaker 5: very it happened very quickly, like it was all based

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Speaker 5: on the police officer's report and what they just decided

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Speaker 5: to spew in five minutes or less.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's yeah, it's it's a pretty messed up system.

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Speaker 2: I think some states have like bail guidelines, right, if

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Speaker 2: I'm not mistaken, like I think California has like you know,

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Speaker 2: if you did this, if if you're accused of this offense,

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Speaker 2: and then your bail goes in this bucket, and then

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Speaker 2: you know if it adds up depending on offenses or

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Speaker 2: conspiracy or whatever.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a really good point. Like the thing about

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Speaker 4: bail is this different like in every state on some

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Speaker 4: states you know have maybe like more progressive quote unquote, yeah,

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Speaker 4: I mean, but some have, some don't.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, yeah, I was going to say, like California

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Speaker 2: has a reputation being progressive. San Diego has charged some

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Speaker 2: of the most insanely high bail amounts I've ever seen.

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Speaker 5: Although we all aspire to do what Illinois just did

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Speaker 5: at the beginning of this year, which was to eliminate

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Speaker 5: bail all together. It would just or cash bail all together.

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Speaker 5: It would just be based on whether you can be

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Speaker 5: released or not.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that would be nice. It is just to be

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Speaker 2: clear that the bail isn't like it's not like the

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Speaker 2: state keeps the money unless you don't show up. Like

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Speaker 2: it is it a revenue generator for states. Who's just

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Speaker 2: purely like a sort of punitive thing that they think

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Speaker 2: has some kind of value. In that regard, it's purely punitive.

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Speaker 3: The idea truly is to make sure that you show

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Speaker 3: up to your court case. And in the US it's

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Speaker 3: often used as a prox for dangerousness. So when you're

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Speaker 3: going from a magistrate, you got three options. Number one

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Speaker 3: is you get out on personal recognizance. If you're a

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Speaker 3: nice white boy like me, you're getting personal recognizance almost certainly.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Option two is you're gonna have to pay cash bail,

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Speaker 3: and that amount is decided by the magistrate, as you said,

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Speaker 3: possibly on a schedule, possibly just whatever the magistrate feels like.

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Speaker 3: And then option three is you might get no bond,

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Speaker 3: which is to say that it doesn't matter how much

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Speaker 3: money you have, you're not getting out of jail. And

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Speaker 3: in like a functioning criminal legal system that just on

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Speaker 3: its own terms like worked. This is not an abolitionist perspective.

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Speaker 3: Cash bail is unnecessary. The magistrate should be deciding and

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Speaker 3: the judge should be deciding whether you are a threat

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Speaker 3: to the community or whether you're not, and that should

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Speaker 3: be like the only option. The other thing I'll throw

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Speaker 3: in here is that paying money is not the best

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Speaker 3: way to make sure that people should up the core.

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Speaker 3: There's extensive data from the immigration system and from the

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Speaker 3: legal system that the number one best way to make

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Speaker 3: sure people show up to their courte is to give

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Speaker 3: them an attorney.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, which is a whole other thing we can

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Speaker 2: get into with the immigration So I think that's a

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Speaker 2: really good kind of example of some a good deep

377
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Speaker 2: dive into what bail is. So essentially, like a bail

378
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Speaker 2: fund can make it so that there is not this

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Speaker 2: financial burden or this financial barrier to freedom. Right, Well,

380
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Speaker 2: you haven't meaned yet to be convicted of any crime.

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Speaker 2: It's not necessarily like an abolitionist thing to exist, but

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Speaker 2: like it helps at least move us towards a less cruel,

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Speaker 2: a less unjust system, I suppose. So I want to

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Speaker 2: talk about like a little bit of the like nuts

385
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Speaker 2: and bolts of what it takes to run a bail fund.

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Speaker 2: But before we do that, we are twenty two minutes

387
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Speaker 2: in so talking thouts and bolts. We need to pay

388
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Speaker 2: our bills. So this is an advert. It's probably not

389
00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:14,720
Speaker 2: so that you need here, it is anyway, right, we're back.

390
00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:18,159
Speaker 2: I hope you've bought whatever it was, MRIs or gone

391
00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:20,720
Speaker 2: a very good dog, coins or I don't know, Hoover.

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Speaker 2: So let's talk about the that Like, like, if you're

393
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Speaker 2: listening to this and you're in your car on your

394
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Speaker 2: way home or whatever time you're listening on a long

395
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Speaker 2: road trip, you're thinking, I would like to be the person.

396
00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:37,399
Speaker 2: Maybe you're a law student yourself, or you're formerly incarcerated person,

397
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Speaker 2: or you've had family members go through the system and

398
00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:44,920
Speaker 2: you're like, hell, yeah, this shit sucks, and I would

399
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Speaker 2: like to help make it a little bit less sucky.

400
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Speaker 2: When you're like, I'm thinking here, when you established a

401
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Speaker 2: bail fund, like, is it a five oh one C three,

402
00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:58,000
Speaker 2: do you need like certain like do you I know

403
00:21:58,119 --> 00:21:59,760
Speaker 2: for five O one C three you need certain people,

404
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:02,000
Speaker 2: certain number of people doing certain jobs on your board.

405
00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:05,480
Speaker 2: That kind of stuff, like what are the like concrete

406
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Speaker 2: steps that one has to take to go from this

407
00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:11,359
Speaker 2: sucks to the chair of the bail fund and I

408
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Speaker 2: can help you.

409
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Speaker 4: Yeah, I can talk a little bit about that. So

410
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Speaker 4: we are five on one three C five one C three,

411
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Speaker 4: but we were posting bonds before we had like the

412
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Speaker 4: official status. So I think truly like all you need

413
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Speaker 4: is some motivation and some money and there you know,

414
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Speaker 4: there are bail funds that post ten to fifteen bonds

415
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Speaker 4: a week, and there's bill funds that post one bond

416
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Speaker 4: a month because that's all they can do. And I

417
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Speaker 4: think like as our organization has grown and matured, we've

418
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Speaker 4: gotten way more organized. And we started out it was

419
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Speaker 4: it was pretty chaotic and people it was poorly organized,

420
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Speaker 4: but we were still posting the bonds and I think

421
00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:55,480
Speaker 4: from day one we've been good about that and so

422
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Speaker 4: like you can definitely start and you'll learn as we've

423
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:01,560
Speaker 4: learned as we go, and you know, we've refined everything.

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Speaker 4: But like I said, it just it takes some motivation

425
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Speaker 4: and a little bit of money and then maybe JA

426
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:09,240
Speaker 4: can talk to them too about the finder details.

427
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Speaker 3: Yeah, so I think Taylor's absolutely right. I'm going to

428
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:17,159
Speaker 3: give some recommendations that I would say are how to

429
00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:19,800
Speaker 3: set up your structure in a durable way. But I

430
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Speaker 3: would also point people the National Bail Fund Network, which

431
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:26,520
Speaker 3: can provide resources and advice for this type of thing. Yeah,

432
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Speaker 3: so basically what you need to run your bail fund

433
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Speaker 3: is you need a group of people. The load, honestly

434
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Speaker 3: is just like too much for one person, both emotionally

435
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:37,760
Speaker 3: and literally. You need people to share this work with

436
00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:41,720
Speaker 3: for it to be sustainable. I recommend that you set

437
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 3: up a five oh one C three nonprofit. This will

438
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,720
Speaker 3: help shield your volunteers from legal liability and it means

439
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:50,760
Speaker 3: you could take tax deductible donations. The way that you

440
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:52,480
Speaker 3: set that up is going to depend on your state.

441
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:55,680
Speaker 3: In Virginia, you register it with the State Corporation Commission,

442
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:59,359
Speaker 3: which means you need a like president, which is Taylor,

443
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:02,320
Speaker 3: and you need a treasurer and then a couple of

444
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:04,679
Speaker 3: their potentially a couple of their board members. These are

445
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,879
Speaker 3: the people who own technically the five oh one C

446
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:11,159
Speaker 3: three and you just need those people on your documents.

447
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 3: You can use their address, but we recommend that you

448
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:16,879
Speaker 3: set up a PO box for getting mail. It just

449
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 3: makes things a little easier means you don't have to

450
00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,320
Speaker 3: like hand your personal address over to a magistrate.

451
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:24,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, makes you as doxible as well.

452
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:29,199
Speaker 3: Yes, And I recommend setting up a dedicated bank account

453
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:33,240
Speaker 3: and go to a bank that makes it has good

454
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:36,200
Speaker 3: hours so that you can readily withdrail with draw cash

455
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,040
Speaker 3: because you can only postpond in cash, which is its

456
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:42,600
Speaker 3: own insanity. So one thing we deal with is like

457
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:45,240
Speaker 3: the bank being closed and then having to wait a

458
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:46,800
Speaker 3: couple of days, you know, day and a half to

459
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:47,720
Speaker 3: be able to post.

460
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:48,400
Speaker 2: Yeah.

461
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 3: We also recommend a Google Voice phone number so that

462
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:56,760
Speaker 3: multiple people can receive phone calls at the same time. Right,

463
00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:59,080
Speaker 3: we can have four people on a Google Voice and

464
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:02,119
Speaker 3: that means the if I'm working tailor can answer the phone.

465
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:05,600
Speaker 3: We split it up by weeks, so we have a

466
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 3: point person each week who is responsible for answering the

467
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:11,120
Speaker 3: phone mainly, but that doesn't mean you're the only person

468
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:13,360
Speaker 3: who answers that week. It's just sort of you want

469
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,960
Speaker 3: to be more heads up. You also are going to

470
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 3: want a decision making structure. We use a consensus based model,

471
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 3: do most of our discussions in a signal thread, but

472
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 3: then we also meet about once a month and if

473
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 3: we have some issue that comes up, we can meet

474
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:36,679
Speaker 3: more often, and you need ideally a way to connect

475
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,800
Speaker 3: to volunteers. So we've had good luck with the law school,

476
00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:42,359
Speaker 3: but we're expanding beyond that, you know, trying to be

477
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,439
Speaker 3: a bit of different institutions in the community and recruit

478
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:49,520
Speaker 3: folks to volunteer for us. You want to do some

479
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:51,960
Speaker 3: amount of vetting of your volunteers. You know, they should

480
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,879
Speaker 3: be in an affinity network or have a way that

481
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 3: you can ensure that they're not going to walk away

482
00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:57,920
Speaker 3: with a five grand in cash.

483
00:25:57,760 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 4: That you hand them.

484
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,119
Speaker 3: Doesn't have to be extensive, but it's good to be

485
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:03,720
Speaker 3: smart about.

486
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:04,520
Speaker 2: Yeah.

487
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,960
Speaker 3: And one thing that we found really helpful is having

488
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:10,520
Speaker 3: business cards because that means you can hand it to

489
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 3: the magistrate and they can get your address right, they

490
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 3: can put you the name of the bail fund down.

491
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 3: A problem that we've had is not all magistrates recognizing

492
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,920
Speaker 3: the bail fund, which but you really want to have

493
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:30,160
Speaker 3: a peel box and that business card so that when

494
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:32,959
Speaker 3: you get checks back from the court system, they come

495
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:34,120
Speaker 3: to a centralized place.

496
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, and then anyone could drop in and

497
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:38,479
Speaker 2: to pust it into the bank account.

498
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:42,639
Speaker 3: And then the last thing that you want is website

499
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,360
Speaker 3: and a fundraising infrastructure. So as we said at the top,

500
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,680
Speaker 3: right now we're using GoFundMe and PayPal, but any way

501
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:50,879
Speaker 3: that you make this work is great, and we can

502
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 3: definitely do better and we'll be expanding. That's basically it.

503
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:56,440
Speaker 3: Though it's really not that much, Yeah, but that's great.

504
00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 2: I think it's like so often like a thing that

505
00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 2: I've seen just being sort of on the left in

506
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:08,440
Speaker 2: various movements since I was younger. It's like we reinvent

507
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 2: the wheel every four or five years, you know. So

508
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 2: just having those things that you guys have learned, you know,

509
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 2: like using Google Voice and having a bank with good hours,

510
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 2: I think that saves someone from having to fall down

511
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 2: those same holes again. So that's really valuable. I wonder that,

512
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 2: like you talked a little bit about legal liability, which

513
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:31,119
Speaker 2: we don't necessarily need to go into, but like there

514
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 2: must is there. Like I mean, there have been some

515
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 2: obviously heavily politicalized arrests in the last few months in

516
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:41,880
Speaker 2: the United States. Do you guys face like personal blowback

517
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 2: or blowback against a group when if you're able to

518
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,199
Speaker 2: bail someone out where their arrest has been heavily reported

519
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 2: on or politicized, because that's something people need to be

520
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 2: aware of.

521
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 4: I think that's a great question. Where we are, there's

522
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,280
Speaker 4: really we have a to the bomb for anything that's

523
00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:03,920
Speaker 4: like political protests related. But there is a bail fund

524
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 4: that's about an hour away, much bigger than ours, that

525
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 4: in twenty twenty eight was doing like every night bail

526
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:13,639
Speaker 4: support jail support. So yeah, that's like an example of

527
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 4: you know, just way different bailpunes operate. And then so

528
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 4: basically we have not ever faced any kind of political

529
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 4: blowback or any issues, but it's definitely something that we're prepared.

530
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:30,359
Speaker 4: We think about because it can't happen. There's badline in story,

531
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:35,160
Speaker 4: and there's definitely cases around the country where like prosecutors

532
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 4: have taken aim at bail funds. You know, Atlanta of

533
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:42,480
Speaker 4: course was a really really yeah big one, but they

534
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 4: think so yeah, everything to.

535
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 3: Add maybe, yeah, I will say that it's certainly a

536
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 3: possibility that your bail fund becomes the target of both

537
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 3: like institutional and like a kind of right wing moral panic.

538
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 3: These things happen, It's I think relatively unlikely, but that

539
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 3: doesn't mean you shouldn't be prepared for it, and I

540
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:08,239
Speaker 3: think that when you kind of address that, and if

541
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 3: you end up in the media or getting heat for it,

542
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:17,040
Speaker 3: the most important thing that you can do is reflect

543
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:20,200
Speaker 3: the fact that the bail fund is not responsible for

544
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 3: what happens when people get out, because we don't decide

545
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 3: if you're getting out of jail. We will work on

546
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 3: a first come, first serve basis. When someone calls us,

547
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 3: we post their bail, no questions asked. And that's because

548
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 3: there's already been a decision of whether this person is

549
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 3: safe to be released, and that decision is made by

550
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 3: the magistrate.

551
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, so any.

552
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 3: Responsibility falls on the criminal legal system, it does not

553
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 3: fall on us. I think it's important to say that

554
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 3: you never hear this blowback coming towards bail bondsman, even

555
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 3: though they get out way more people and more dangerous

556
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 3: people than we do.

557
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 1: Yeah.

558
00:29:55,640 --> 00:30:01,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's definitely the case. So I wonder, like, what

559
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 2: other issues you have faced hardships and you spoke about

560
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 2: a couple of them, are there other things like that

561
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 2: you've I know, for instance, like i've obviously as part

562
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 2: of my reporting, or maybe not obviously, but some people

563
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 2: apparently don't bother to do it. But I communicate with

564
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 2: incarcerated people when they'm writing about them because it seems

565
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:24,719
Speaker 2: like a reasonable thing to do, and I am very

566
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 2: aware of how annoying, expensive, time consuming, and just generally

567
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 2: totally inadequate the system is of communication with people, even

568
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 2: people who are not convicted of any crime. So I

569
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 2: don't know if that's something you've encountered, if there are

570
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:42,480
Speaker 2: other sort of hardships that you guys have had to

571
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 2: deal with, perhaps if there are ways you've worked out

572
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 2: to get around them or to at least make them

573
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 2: less difficult, then that would be great people to hear too.

574
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 4: The communication thing is a huge problem, yeah, exactly. You know,

575
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 4: most of the calls we get are from people that

576
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:02,480
Speaker 4: are acturr in the jail and they can only call

577
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 4: us and we cannot call them. So you know, they

578
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 4: call us and we have to just say okay, like

579
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 4: you need to call back in a couple of hours,

580
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 4: and then you know, they have lockdowns, they can't get

581
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 4: to the phone, all sorts of things. So the worst

582
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, they probably one of the worst things

583
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 4: that ever happened was someone called and I called the jail,

584
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 4: and the jail was like, oh, they can be released today.

585
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 4: And so the guy calls back and I'm like, hey, man,

586
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 4: you're going to get released today. We're going to have

587
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 4: a volunteer go out and post this bond, Like you

588
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:34,920
Speaker 4: don't need to call me back, Like if you want to,

589
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 4: you can, but it's it's all rolling right, yeah, And

590
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 4: then I call the jail to triple check everything, and

591
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 4: they say, oh, you know, we have to hear back

592
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 4: from the court. The court has to approve this, and

593
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,280
Speaker 4: they're like closing in thirty minutes, so it's not going

594
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 4: to happen today. And so now like I have no

595
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 4: way to call this guy and tell him that he's

596
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 4: actually not going to get out today because of a

597
00:31:56,760 --> 00:32:00,680
Speaker 4: bureaucratic issue, and I just have to wait until he

598
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 4: just like can't take anymore. And then calls And that

599
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:07,720
Speaker 4: was really unpleasant situas it's really unfortunate, and you know,

600
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 4: he was not happy. He was not happy, and I mean,

601
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 4: you know, he took a little bit out on me,

602
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 4: but it wasn't a case of him actually be mad

603
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:16,680
Speaker 4: at me.

604
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:16,960
Speaker 1: You know.

605
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:19,480
Speaker 4: I think that's something that's really cool, is like no

606
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 4: one we deliver bad news all the time, you know,

607
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:24,480
Speaker 4: we say you can't get out because of X Y Z.

608
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 4: And no one's ever like actually mad at us. You know,

609
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 4: they might be like annoyed for a second because you know,

610
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 4: I'm on the phone delivering the bad news, but every

611
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 4: time at the end they're like, thanks so much, like

612
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 4: I appreciate you. So we haven't had any like I mean, yeah,

613
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 4: I think nothing really super negative has happened. It's just

614
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 4: like you said, the communication huge problem. When it's family

615
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:49,680
Speaker 4: members going from not in jail, it's a little more

616
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 4: easy to deal with. You can call them back.

617
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 2: Yeah.

618
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll jump in on communication just for a minute. Yeah,

619
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 3: because this is an issue that I work on at

620
00:32:58,440 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 3: my day job.

621
00:32:59,520 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 1: Yeah.

622
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:05,959
Speaker 3: The paid prison phone system is one of the worst

623
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 3: parts of American life. It is incredibly expensive to call people,

624
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 3: and the phone systems work really poorly, and they're actually

625
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 3: getting worse. So for us, like the main jail that

626
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 3: we work with, Middle River Regional Jail, used to use

627
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 3: a phone provider called GTL who is one of the

628
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 3: biggest in the country, and that was pricey, but like

629
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 3: we could reliably get calls. They just switched over to

630
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 3: a different provider who makes money in a different way.

631
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:40,719
Speaker 3: They provide tablets to the prison, and as a result

632
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 3: of that, all our phone calls are now made coming

633
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 3: from the prison like social room on a tablet, which

634
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 3: means sometimes it's too loud to hear the person calling,

635
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 3: and about fifteen percent of the time the call just

636
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 3: drops when you pick it up. So the system makes

637
00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 3: it really difficult to correspond with people. Result, a couple

638
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 3: of things that we do are sharing the phone responsibility.

639
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,840
Speaker 3: Not promising people things when we can't deliver them is

640
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:13,160
Speaker 3: super important, and like that's mostly a problem because the

641
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:16,320
Speaker 3: phone system works so badly and we can't communicate with people.

642
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:19,920
Speaker 3: And then the biggest thing is like giving yourself grace

643
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:24,120
Speaker 3: when you miss the phone when something goes wrong, because

644
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:28,399
Speaker 3: it's emotionally very taxing to know that someone desperately wants

645
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 3: to speak with you because they're potentially at the worst

646
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:33,879
Speaker 3: point in their entire life and need to get out,

647
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:38,279
Speaker 3: and you've missed a phone call. So it's, yeah, it's

648
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:40,400
Speaker 3: really important to be kind to yourself in those situations.

649
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you went to stick around.

650
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 5: And one more thing that I was surprised to find

651
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:51,719
Speaker 5: out about the phone system is how much recording and

652
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:55,759
Speaker 5: reviewing of recording goes on through those phone calls. I

653
00:34:56,000 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 5: witnessed so many prosecute commonwealth attorneys bring up something from

654
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 5: phone calls when folks were actually in trial or for

655
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 5: sentencing hearings or this is later down the road. But

656
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 5: the fact that they could pull up those recordings from

657
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:18,320
Speaker 5: a year before, two years before they were calling a

658
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 5: loved one, a family member, just incredible. How much access

659
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:24,800
Speaker 5: there is to that and lack of privacy.

660
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's very dehumous.

661
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 4: I gotta jump in on that. Yeah, you end up

662
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 4: in jail, do not say anything about your case on

663
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:37,240
Speaker 4: the phone. Oh and don't talk to the guards about

664
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 4: why you're innocent, because I've seen that people do that.

665
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 4: It's not good advice. Don't do it. Don't talk about

666
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:45,080
Speaker 4: the case ever.

667
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:49,759
Speaker 3: Yeah. One way that we address that is by telling

668
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 3: people upfront that we postpond no questions asked, and like

669
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 3: telling people like, it doesn't matter what your situation is,

670
00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:59,440
Speaker 3: where if we have the money and you can get out,

671
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:00,879
Speaker 3: we're gonna post Yeah.

672
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, it's not your job to adjudicate, Like you said,

673
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 2: if someone's safe or unsafe, or innocent or guilty. That

674
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 2: that's what the state purported to be doing, Like your

675
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:11,319
Speaker 2: job is just to make sure that someone's not too

676
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 2: poor to be free. So on the subject of like

677
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 2: the sheer finances are they, I know, like certainly here

678
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 2: I've seen and I have no idea what the sort

679
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:35,279
Speaker 2: of I know San Diego does have. California has these

680
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:38,600
Speaker 2: bail guidelines so that they can't just set whatever bail

681
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:40,320
Speaker 2: they want. But like in twenty twenty, we saw some

682
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:42,239
Speaker 2: sky high bails and I don't know if it was

683
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 2: just because it was like fucky mail fund of it,

684
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 2: it was just because that was what the guidelines allowed,

685
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 2: or some combination thereof. But do you guys have a

686
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:54,880
Speaker 2: Like we can't because if you said you're dealing with

687
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:58,719
Speaker 2: forty thousand, right, like, if you drop ten thousand on

688
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:00,719
Speaker 2: one individual, that obviously means that there are a lot

689
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:03,360
Speaker 2: of people with five hundred dollars who can't have to

690
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 2: stay in jail. So do you have like a cap

691
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 2: on your individual bail amounts for that reason? Yeah?

692
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:13,000
Speaker 3: Tailold you want to take.

693
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:15,360
Speaker 4: This, Yeah, yeah, so yeah, we have a cap. We

694
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 4: pay up to five thousand dollars, So five thousand dollars

695
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 4: or less and that Yeah, it's exactly what you said.

696
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:26,839
Speaker 4: Like otherwise, you know, we would be totally broke an

697
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 4: out of money, and even you know, two five thousand

698
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 4: dollars bonds in a row, and then you know, yeah,

699
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:34,480
Speaker 4: we're pretty screwed. So and then I think that's a

700
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 4: you know, it brings up something else, that jig and

701
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 4: we're talking about like it's we have it's important to

702
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 4: stick to that limit if we one time we posted

703
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:48,400
Speaker 4: a bond up to twelve thousand dollars for somebody, and

704
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 4: you know, I think it was a combination of many

705
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:52,759
Speaker 4: factors that led us to do that. But at the

706
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 4: end of the day, it can be very hard just

707
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 4: to tell someone no. Because it was like he had

708
00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 4: a five thousand dollars bond and then separate court, I

709
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:03,440
Speaker 4: got another one and so it was you know, we

710
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:06,080
Speaker 4: already told him to pay the one bond. Anyway, long

711
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:10,080
Speaker 4: story is short, We had twelve thousand dollars tied up

712
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:12,439
Speaker 4: on this guy and then he didn't show up to court.

713
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:15,919
Speaker 4: And if that's that's when you can lose the money,

714
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:20,439
Speaker 4: then people don't show up to court, so as well, Yeah,

715
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 4: fortunately for us, Unfortunately for him, he did get re

716
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:30,320
Speaker 4: arrested on another charge and when that happens, there's like

717
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:33,160
Speaker 4: a ninety day period where if the person gets caught,

718
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:36,800
Speaker 4: then we get the money back. And that's where like

719
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:40,360
Speaker 4: we are prints. Our policy is like we're not going

720
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 4: to do anything if the person runs, like we're not

721
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 4: going to do anything to try to get it back.

722
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:47,480
Speaker 4: We're not going to revoke anybody's bond. But like a

723
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:50,719
Speaker 4: billboonbsman might try to like find you if you run. Yeah,

724
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:53,640
Speaker 4: but so are kind of our joke was kind of like, well,

725
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 4: we hope that we hope the guy just gets away completely,

726
00:38:57,239 --> 00:38:59,279
Speaker 4: but if he's not going to get away, maybe get

727
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:00,520
Speaker 4: caught with any days.

728
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:07,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, But the best thing is if people would contribute

729
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 1: and donate, we could be able to allocate for so

730
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:14,759
Speaker 1: many more people and not have people spend time in

731
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 1: jail where things like mental health conditions worsen because prison

732
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:24,279
Speaker 1: guards are and jail guards are not paying attention, where

733
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:27,200
Speaker 1: you don't have access to an attorney easily, where when

734
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:29,440
Speaker 1: you show up to your.

735
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:30,239
Speaker 2: Day in.

736
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:35,960
Speaker 5: Court, you don't have an orange jumpsuit on, and that's

737
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:39,480
Speaker 5: not factoring into the judge's mind. So please please donate

738
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:42,680
Speaker 5: for all those reasons to our built fund.

739
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:46,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, if we have more money. That's something we talked

740
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:48,200
Speaker 4: about a lot of times. If we have more money,

741
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:50,880
Speaker 4: we would be able to raise the on the on

742
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:53,279
Speaker 4: out we could post, but it's just not feasible right now.

743
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:56,120
Speaker 2: In terms of donation, it's a great thing. I was

744
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 2: just thinking, like good because it keeps going around and

745
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:01,279
Speaker 2: around and around. Right, It's not like you know, you

746
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:03,120
Speaker 2: give a donation once and you get someone a thing

747
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:05,120
Speaker 2: and you change their life, like you could potentially change

748
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 2: dozens of hundreds of people's hold true Digg tree.

749
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:10,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely cool.

750
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:12,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I will add on how we address our

751
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,320
Speaker 3: lack of funds. The other system that we have in

752
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:19,320
Speaker 3: place is a weight list. So people call us and

753
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:21,480
Speaker 3: we can tell them, hey, you're on the wait list.

754
00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:23,239
Speaker 3: They'll call back all the time and be like, hey,

755
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:25,239
Speaker 3: if I moved up the wait list. Sometimes people call

756
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:27,480
Speaker 3: it multiple times a day and they're like, oh, any

757
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:32,439
Speaker 3: movement my number four? Now this is kind of wild.

758
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:35,960
Speaker 3: But having the wait list and we go like in

759
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:39,399
Speaker 3: strict weight list order, with the exception that if someone

760
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:41,920
Speaker 3: has an under five hundred dollars five hundred dollars or less,

761
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 3: we'll just post that because if we're sitting around waiting

762
00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:48,320
Speaker 3: for someone to get money back from the courts. For

763
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:50,759
Speaker 3: a five thousand dollars bond, that's next in line, we

764
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 3: could have forty five hundred bucks. And so for the

765
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:59,760
Speaker 3: super low bonds where the issue is like purely purely poverty,

766
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:04,640
Speaker 3: we make an exception. But you run into that kind

767
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:07,160
Speaker 3: of ethical question all the time running the bill phone,

768
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:10,239
Speaker 3: like how do we make the best decisions? It's going

769
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:13,160
Speaker 3: to help you know people in the best way and

770
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:15,839
Speaker 3: then accords with our values the most that can get

771
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 3: pretty heated and intense. And having a setup of folks

772
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:23,239
Speaker 3: where like you really respect each other and like each other,

773
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:27,280
Speaker 3: I think is really important to not let that spire

774
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:29,800
Speaker 3: out of control. It helps that, you know, Taylor and

775
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:33,279
Speaker 3: Melissa and I have been friends for many years and

776
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 3: we can like hang out and talk about this and

777
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:36,320
Speaker 3: then like Taylor and I can go out and go

778
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:37,000
Speaker 3: for a bike ride.

779
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 5: Nice.

780
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:41,320
Speaker 3: So having those relationships I think is really important.

781
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:42,839
Speaker 2: Yeah.

782
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:46,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, And don't get too competitive over board games like

783
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 5: wings when somebody wins and still being able to talk

784
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 5: at the end of that.

785
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:57,400
Speaker 2: It seems like a direct experience. One then.

786
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:06,480
Speaker 4: We are an abolitionist like principles, you know, and but

787
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:09,080
Speaker 4: I think almost like you know, I've talked one of

788
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:11,319
Speaker 4: their builtments that I know of. They have some sort

789
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 4: of system I'm not super familiar with, like prioritizing someone

790
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:17,480
Speaker 4: that maybe they consider to be higher risk in the

791
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:20,480
Speaker 4: prison system to get out first, and I think that

792
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 4: that's a really a really appealing thing. But it's it's

793
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:27,239
Speaker 4: just like kind of Jake touched on earlier, Like that's

794
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 4: just adding like another layer of judgment, Like then we

795
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:33,759
Speaker 4: become these like arbiters of who is in jail and

796
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:36,360
Speaker 4: who's not in jail and as much and so like

797
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:41,319
Speaker 4: almost almost counterintuitively, like having this system first come, first serve,

798
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:44,360
Speaker 4: I think is like the most abolitionist thing we can do.

799
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 2: Yes, I can see that. Yeah, yeah, and it certainly

800
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:51,120
Speaker 2: reduces a load on you and making most difficult choices, which.

801
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:53,320
Speaker 4: It helps with that.

802
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 1: Yeah.

803
00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:57,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, we were talking about the system, and like I

804
00:42:57,160 --> 00:43:01,120
Speaker 2: want to bring that up because the system is like

805
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:04,359
Speaker 2: you know, I cover not a lot of criminal justice,

806
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 2: but a decent bit, and it is incredibly confusing. It's convoluted.

807
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:11,239
Speaker 2: It's like they've got these old ass names that you

808
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:13,759
Speaker 2: don't understand, and then the Ghiara and Virginia, so you

809
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:15,680
Speaker 2: have a whole other layer of weird stuff going on,

810
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:21,360
Speaker 2: like with names and so. Like if someone's thinking of

811
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:23,839
Speaker 2: something this and they're like, I want this to happen,

812
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:26,000
Speaker 2: but I do not understand how to navigate this system?

813
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:27,839
Speaker 2: Does that mean that they need someone with a little

814
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:32,080
Speaker 2: more legal experience? Like can you explain how as like

815
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:36,279
Speaker 2: someone who isn't Obviously some of both, at least two

816
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:37,520
Speaker 2: of you have. I suppose all of you have some

817
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:39,520
Speaker 2: experience with the legal system in one way or another

818
00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:41,480
Speaker 2: and understand it a little better because of that. But

819
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:44,200
Speaker 2: if someone has been fortunate enough not to have to

820
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:49,279
Speaker 2: interact with the criminal law system, are they like do

821
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:52,000
Speaker 2: they need a law student or a lawyer to start

822
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:54,399
Speaker 2: a bail fund or like how does one go about

823
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:55,760
Speaker 2: learning to navigate that system?

824
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:58,839
Speaker 4: I suppose yeah, they definitely not. You do not need

825
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:01,440
Speaker 4: to have legal experience. I think it was kind of

826
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 4: a just a random chance that it was a law

827
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:07,319
Speaker 4: of students that found in this one. Basically, like you said,

828
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:10,400
Speaker 4: it's extremely confusing system and the only way you're going

829
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:12,839
Speaker 4: to learn how it all works is just by going

830
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:17,800
Speaker 4: and posting the bonds, Like the system is possible, Like

831
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:20,600
Speaker 4: the bond system we're just like a family member going

832
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:24,080
Speaker 4: to post someone's bond, So like it's set up and

833
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:26,080
Speaker 4: then it is possible for like your loved one to

834
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:29,719
Speaker 4: post your bond. And we just started off the experience.

835
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:32,279
Speaker 4: You know, you just go, you call it. You would

836
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:34,080
Speaker 4: just call the jail and say where do I post

837
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:36,719
Speaker 4: this bond and they'll tell you. You know, you come

838
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:39,000
Speaker 4: to the magistrate. This is where the magistrates is located.

839
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:42,279
Speaker 4: And then you know, you go with the cash and post,

840
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:44,600
Speaker 4: and like there will be every like we work in.

841
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:48,719
Speaker 4: It's ten courts, five different jurisdictions, and then you each

842
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:51,919
Speaker 4: have two court systems, and I swear almost every single

843
00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:55,920
Speaker 4: court does things somewhat differently. And the way we just

844
00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:58,200
Speaker 4: get on the phone and call them, you know, be

845
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:01,440
Speaker 4: really polite, just figure it all out and write it

846
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:02,840
Speaker 4: down so that we know in the future.

847
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:05,759
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, I'll tell you.

848
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:09,120
Speaker 3: Like you can learn these systems over time, and that's

849
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:12,160
Speaker 3: really worth doing because in a moment of crisis, like

850
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:15,640
Speaker 3: mass arrests during a protest movement, knowing how to navigate

851
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:19,440
Speaker 3: the system in a quick and reliable way is really valuable.

852
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:22,680
Speaker 3: It makes it way easier to get people out. And

853
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:25,919
Speaker 3: so I would like pitch even if you don't feel

854
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:28,160
Speaker 3: really strongly about getting people out of jail, but you

855
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 3: want to be helpful in a time of crisis, Like

856
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:34,640
Speaker 3: learning the legal system as a non lawyer is doable.

857
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:37,880
Speaker 3: I will also say that, like, you don't learn how

858
00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:39,959
Speaker 3: to do this stuff in law school. I didn't learn

859
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:43,320
Speaker 3: how to post a bond, how to like file a

860
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:46,920
Speaker 3: KPIST any of this crazy stuff that we have to do.

861
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:50,960
Speaker 3: Virginia is truly like one of the worst states in

862
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:54,040
Speaker 3: the country. I talked to a public defender who's worked

863
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 3: in courts and Louisiana and was like, yeah, a Virginia

864
00:45:57,280 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 3: court system is worse and more unfathomable, which is not

865
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 3: if you know anything about New Orleans legal system is

866
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 3: not great, but you can you know, you can learn

867
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:15,760
Speaker 3: an incredible amount and then that skill just becomes valuable

868
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:19,200
Speaker 3: in a number of different areas. One of the most

869
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:23,879
Speaker 3: powerful ways that you can help people is even when

870
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:26,520
Speaker 3: you're not able to postpond for them, knowing how to

871
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:29,359
Speaker 3: look up someone's case, tell them what their charges are,

872
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 3: tell them what is happening to them is incredibly helpful.

873
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:37,480
Speaker 3: Because the majority of people we talk to have some

874
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:40,160
Speaker 3: idea of why they're in jail, but they don't know

875
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:43,719
Speaker 3: the details, and that means that they don't know like

876
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:47,120
Speaker 3: why they're not getting out, and just being able to

877
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:50,160
Speaker 3: give people a little bit of certainty is really important.

878
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:53,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's a very valuable thing you can do.

879
00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:56,120
Speaker 2: And yeah, I think this whole thing has been a

880
00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:59,239
Speaker 2: very valuable insight into how to build a mail fund,

881
00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:02,200
Speaker 2: I guess, And is there anything else do you guys

882
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:04,960
Speaker 2: think that we didn't cover in the grand scheme of

883
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:09,520
Speaker 2: being bail friend entrepreneurs. I don't know what the right

884
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:11,800
Speaker 2: phrase is that bail fund found.

885
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:15,280
Speaker 5: Is just the importance of making sure to be rooted

886
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:17,480
Speaker 5: in the community. I think that's going to be the

887
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:21,839
Speaker 5: best way, not only to fundraise in the long term,

888
00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:26,000
Speaker 5: because you can have even five dollars if it's reoccurring

889
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:29,680
Speaker 5: from some community members. You get to know what's happening,

890
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:35,200
Speaker 5: what's something that's a reoccurring problem throughout the community, and

891
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:38,680
Speaker 5: just making sure to listen to that and to be

892
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:40,280
Speaker 5: able to navigate going forward.

893
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:45,879
Speaker 4: I think one thing that I think is I found

894
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:48,840
Speaker 4: so interesting about doing this bill fund is that it

895
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:53,359
Speaker 4: spans it really crosses completely or even like I would

896
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:56,040
Speaker 4: say it transcends politics. Like I think that all of

897
00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:59,279
Speaker 4: the board members are in here politically motivated, you know,

898
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:03,200
Speaker 4: we're abolitionists or you know, against the current court system.

899
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:08,680
Speaker 4: But the people's lives, like across every political spectrum have

900
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:12,520
Speaker 4: been ruined by prison in jail. And I think one time,

901
00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:14,879
Speaker 4: like I think the most interesting example that Billy drove

902
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 4: his home was I was at work. I was at

903
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:19,440
Speaker 4: the lumber yard, you know, and I think, you know

904
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:21,480
Speaker 4: the people, the salesman at the lumber yard, I think

905
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:23,160
Speaker 4: they would follow them more if I was going to

906
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:25,720
Speaker 4: stereotype them, I would say, to you on the conservative side.

907
00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:29,759
Speaker 4: And the one guy, the salesman was he had heard

908
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:31,800
Speaker 4: about that I did this. I think he saw Facebook

909
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:33,680
Speaker 4: that posted about it and he was like that is

910
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:35,839
Speaker 4: He's like, this is just the coolest thing ever, man,

911
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:37,759
Speaker 4: Like I think it's so awesome, you know, Like he's

912
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:42,239
Speaker 4: like people are just locked up for like bullshit and yeah,

913
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:44,480
Speaker 4: and I think, you know, we've had volunteers that I

914
00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:47,480
Speaker 4: think people were like knew him or like why. I

915
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:50,279
Speaker 4: think he's like almost like a Republican and just going

916
00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:52,600
Speaker 4: out and posting these bonds and I think that it's uh,

917
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:56,480
Speaker 4: like I said, Yeah, it's just fascinating that it does transcend.

918
00:48:57,680 --> 00:48:59,560
Speaker 4: It transcends the politics a little bit.

919
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:02,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think anyone who's had to interact with the

920
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:06,239
Speaker 2: criminal justice system, I like, I haven't a chucte with

921
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:09,240
Speaker 2: the American one, but like, if they've had in their family,

922
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:11,319
Speaker 2: if they've had it in there, you know, and their

923
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:15,120
Speaker 2: friend group or whatever, realizes how dehumanizing and unjust it

924
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:18,040
Speaker 2: it is. And especially like if they're working people, right,

925
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:20,600
Speaker 2: they are not people of massive means, They'll have seen

926
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:22,880
Speaker 2: how how hard it can weigh. And you're trying to

927
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:25,120
Speaker 2: come up with money to bond someone out who you

928
00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:28,120
Speaker 2: care about, even if they'd end up not being found guilty,

929
00:49:28,239 --> 00:49:31,239
Speaker 2: and so like, it can be a very broad based thing,

930
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:35,600
Speaker 2: and I think it's certainly something that like I saw

931
00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:37,959
Speaker 2: a lot of people giving money to bailfund's in twenty twenty,

932
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:40,279
Speaker 2: who look, I may not have you know, they weren't

933
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:42,400
Speaker 2: necessarily people who are also out in the streets. Like

934
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:44,400
Speaker 2: it's a way for people to be part of a movement.

935
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:47,440
Speaker 2: It's a way for people to who feel that like

936
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:50,480
Speaker 2: this is unjust, even if yeah, they might not share

937
00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:52,800
Speaker 2: abolitionist politics or whatever. I think it's something that a

938
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:54,640
Speaker 2: lot of people would want to get behind.

939
00:49:56,680 --> 00:49:59,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll say that. For me, the most meaningful part

940
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:03,080
Speaker 3: of this work is having the opportunity to treat people

941
00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:06,040
Speaker 3: with dignity when they are in a system that absolutely

942
00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:08,600
Speaker 3: gives them no dignity. The police do not treat people

943
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:11,239
Speaker 3: with dignity, the judges in the courts do not treat

944
00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:14,120
Speaker 3: people with dignity, and your jailers are not going to

945
00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:17,560
Speaker 3: treat you with dignity. So having the opportunity to answer

946
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:21,120
Speaker 3: a phone and be kind to someone, to listen to them,

947
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:24,160
Speaker 3: and to do small things for them. Call their family,

948
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:26,560
Speaker 3: let their family know that they're locked up, let their

949
00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:30,080
Speaker 3: family know that someone is working on getting them out.

950
00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:34,800
Speaker 3: Oftentimes I will get a call from someone and we

951
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:36,919
Speaker 3: aren't able to post, but I can call their mom

952
00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:40,120
Speaker 3: and talk their mom through getting a bail Bondsman. I've

953
00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:42,919
Speaker 3: had people like cry on the phone with me because

954
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:46,320
Speaker 3: they've said I felt so helpless not being able to

955
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:48,680
Speaker 3: get my son out of jail, and getting a call

956
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:52,400
Speaker 3: from you made a huge difference. So I think, I

957
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:54,600
Speaker 3: just like, if you can do this, you can get

958
00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:57,040
Speaker 3: together with your friends and form a bail fund and

959
00:50:57,320 --> 00:51:01,959
Speaker 3: in a really concrete way improve their lives and treat

960
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:04,319
Speaker 3: them with dignity, and that's such a radical thing.

961
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:09,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's really cool. Yeah, right, so I think the

962
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:11,319
Speaker 2: wrap up, we should bet, we should again remind people

963
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:13,680
Speaker 2: where they can give you their money. So how would

964
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:14,480
Speaker 2: people go about doing that?

965
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:18,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, please do, please don't it to the Blue Ridge

966
00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:23,279
Speaker 3: Community Bail Fund. We are on PayPal at PayPal, dot

967
00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:28,759
Speaker 3: me slash blue Ridge Bail. Ridge is ri dge. We're

968
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:30,600
Speaker 3: on GoFundMe. You can find us on of the Blue

969
00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:34,399
Speaker 3: Ridge Community Bail Fund. We are on Instagram at Ridge

970
00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:38,320
Speaker 3: Bail and we also have a website, Blue Ridge Bailfund

971
00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:39,000
Speaker 3: dot org.

972
00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:42,719
Speaker 4: I think so you can google Blue Ridge Community Bail

973
00:51:42,760 --> 00:51:46,480
Speaker 4: Fund will show up. And yeah, if anybody is interested

974
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:48,680
Speaker 4: in starting a bail fund and wants to ask us

975
00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:51,640
Speaker 4: any questions like please do, we would love to talk

976
00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:52,000
Speaker 4: about it.

977
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:56,759
Speaker 5: We've learned a lot through just reaching out to other

978
00:51:56,920 --> 00:51:59,880
Speaker 5: bail funds, even if they're not in the state of Virginia,

979
00:52:00,239 --> 00:52:03,200
Speaker 5: of how they reformed, what worked for them, what didn't.

980
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:08,520
Speaker 5: Just having a thirty minute conversation gives sometimes wonderful ideas

981
00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:09,720
Speaker 5: on how to go forward.

982
00:52:12,239 --> 00:52:14,440
Speaker 2: That's great, Thank you so much. Guys, I think that's

983
00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:16,520
Speaker 2: pretty good. Anything else you want to share before we go?

984
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:22,600
Speaker 2: I think we're good at Thanks so much, Thank you

985
00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:23,319
Speaker 2: for having us.

986
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:24,280
Speaker 4: Thanks.

987
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:31,600
Speaker 5: It could Happen Here as a production of cool Zone Media.

988
00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:34,520
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

989
00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:36,759
Speaker 1: cool zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the

990
00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:40,200
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

991
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:42,920
Speaker 5: You can find sources for It could Happen Here, updated

992
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:47,000
Speaker 5: monthly at cool zonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.