WEBVTT - Elephants: The Best Animals?

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Stuff you should know from how Stuff Works

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<v Speaker 1>dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark,

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<v Speaker 1>There's Charles w Chuck, Bryan Jerry. We're just feeling wacky

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<v Speaker 1>or here. You want to know why? Why? Because this

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<v Speaker 1>is the stuff you should know about. Maybe the greatest

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<v Speaker 1>animal walking the planet. And I'm including human beings elephants.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm big on elephants. YEA love elephants. Might be emily

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<v Speaker 1>spirit animals. She hasn't decided yet. Yeah, I can say,

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<v Speaker 1>is really Oh yeah, wow, they have the same spirit

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<v Speaker 1>animal that's gonna eat. Yeah, I know. I like that.

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't know that. I didn't know you mean was

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<v Speaker 1>an elephant or she is big time into elephant elephantist.

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<v Speaker 1>M Um, all right, Charles, are you ready for this? Yes?

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<v Speaker 1>And really quickly. Because we love elephants. We want to

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<v Speaker 1>go on a safari one day. You know I've mentioned before,

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<v Speaker 1>but now I know and we'll get to this later.

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<v Speaker 1>I was like, man, I want to I want to

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<v Speaker 1>swim with those things. Don't do it, No, I shouldn't

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<v Speaker 1>do it. Don't write them, Nope, don't do any of

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<v Speaker 1>those things where you see people on Facebook bragging about

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<v Speaker 1>writing and getting bade by elephants. Don't do it. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>it's true, Like that's not ethical or humane because we'll

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<v Speaker 1>just say it now. The reason why is because too,

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<v Speaker 1>elephants are wild animals. They're not domesticated. Although they display

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<v Speaker 1>some really bizarre affectionate behavior towards humans there that can

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<v Speaker 1>make you think they are domesticated, there's still wild animals.

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<v Speaker 1>So to train them to basically ensure that they're not

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<v Speaker 1>ever going to you know, stomp a person or something

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<v Speaker 1>like that, you have to take them as as babies

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<v Speaker 1>and what's called crushing their spirit and just basically scare

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<v Speaker 1>them so bad or beat them physically, right, that's part

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<v Speaker 1>of the process of crushing their spirit. Like yeah, beat them,

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<v Speaker 1>the rate them, starve them, tie their legs together, keep

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<v Speaker 1>them in a pen all to basically teach them that

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<v Speaker 1>humans are in charge and that they should be scared

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<v Speaker 1>to death of of doing anything untoward toward a human.

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<v Speaker 1>That's how you can write an elephant, or how you

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<v Speaker 1>can bathe with an elephant or um, you me wanted

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<v Speaker 1>a painting by an elephant, Like, there's elephants that make paintings.

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<v Speaker 1>There's one here in Atlanta, okay, that makes paintings. So

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<v Speaker 1>we researched it right before we were about to order,

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<v Speaker 1>and she's like, wait a minute, let me just see

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<v Speaker 1>if this is okay. And it turns out that they

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<v Speaker 1>basically use the same techniques. To to make an elephant

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<v Speaker 1>do what human wants it to, you have to be

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<v Speaker 1>very cruel to them usually, So there you go. People

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<v Speaker 1>don't do it. Yeah, it was a weird intro. It

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<v Speaker 1>was in my crawl. Uh, obviously it was in yours

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit. But let's talk about elephants, the good stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>There are three species. You probably grew up thinking like

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<v Speaker 1>I did, that there's the African elephant and the Asian elephant.

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<v Speaker 1>Sure that everybody knows that. But now they have broken

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<v Speaker 1>down the African element element the elephant into two camps,

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<v Speaker 1>the bush elephant and the forest elephant, both African and

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<v Speaker 1>like I said, for many many years, and you will

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<v Speaker 1>still see in a lot of places, um just two species.

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<v Speaker 1>But that is that is not true anymore. No one

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<v Speaker 1>to three um so, and the bush elephant and the

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<v Speaker 1>forest elephant are so closely related that if they if

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<v Speaker 1>they run up against one another because some of their

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<v Speaker 1>their habitats kind of overlap, they could reproduce and have babies,

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<v Speaker 1>which no problem whatsoever. But the Asian elephant is so

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<v Speaker 1>distantly related to them, even though they seem, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>it's just another kind of elephant, it's an elephant that

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<v Speaker 1>they probably they could receivably have a kid. And actually

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<v Speaker 1>one was born in a zoo in the seventies, but

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<v Speaker 1>he died after like I think twelve days of an infection.

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<v Speaker 1>UM that they probably aren't really supposed to aren't supposed

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<v Speaker 1>to breed, I guess, is how you'd put it, right,

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<v Speaker 1>have offspring. Yeah, so, uh, we're gonna be talking about

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<v Speaker 1>all three, um not interchangeably. We'll we'll point out when

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<v Speaker 1>we're talking about what but the African bush elephant, those

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<v Speaker 1>are the biggest ones. They have the biggest ears um

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<v Speaker 1>or at least larger than the Asian elephants, and both

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<v Speaker 1>sexes for the African bush elephants are more likely to

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<v Speaker 1>have tusks. UM. Some male Asian elephants have tusks, but

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<v Speaker 1>they're not as prominent. That's where you see the smaller tusks.

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<v Speaker 1>And then all three species have five toes on the

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<v Speaker 1>front feet, but the African bush elephant has three toes

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<v Speaker 1>on the rear. Asian l elephants have four toes on

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<v Speaker 1>the rear on each foot. There's a lot of different

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<v Speaker 1>toes going on, a lot of different toes uh. And

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<v Speaker 1>the African forest elephant is generally about the same shape

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<v Speaker 1>as his bush bush friend, but they have straighter tusks

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<v Speaker 1>because they're going It makes sense they're going through the

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<v Speaker 1>forest so their tests don't stick way out and get

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<v Speaker 1>caught on every other tree that they're walking by. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>And I thought this was really interesting. Um, the the

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<v Speaker 1>African um forest elephants are so elusive that like they

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<v Speaker 1>don't they have no idea how many there are, all

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<v Speaker 1>of the all the ideas about their behavior and the

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<v Speaker 1>stuff that they do is just assumptions made based on

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<v Speaker 1>the bush elephant that they're related to. They're that good

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<v Speaker 1>at like keeping away from humans. I just think that's amazing. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>And they have they're a little bit smaller um than

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<v Speaker 1>the uh than they're they're ends on the savannah, but

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<v Speaker 1>they have the same toe arrangement as the Asian elephant, right,

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<v Speaker 1>which is interesting. So the I I had never really

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<v Speaker 1>thought about it, but like, um, a lot of the elephants,

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<v Speaker 1>when I think of elephants. I never realized I was

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<v Speaker 1>thinking of two different species, but they really do. Like

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<v Speaker 1>the Asian elephant and the African bush elephant, they have

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of differences that you can just very quickly

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<v Speaker 1>see which is which kind Like the Asian elephant has

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<v Speaker 1>kind of like the rounded dome head, and they have

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<v Speaker 1>kind of a hump back um and they are a

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<v Speaker 1>little smaller. And then the African bush elephants they're very,

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<v Speaker 1>very big with the big old ears, and they have

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<v Speaker 1>basically what's called like a saddle back. It's kind of

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<v Speaker 1>flatish or maybe even concave a little bit too. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>and here's here's one of the facts of the show

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<v Speaker 1>for me is there's like fifty and here, and there's

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<v Speaker 1>so many but elephants have. They have tuskness like we

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<v Speaker 1>have handedness. They use their right or their left tusk

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<v Speaker 1>more often than the other. And if you ever wonder

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<v Speaker 1>which tusk is the more dominant one, look and see

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<v Speaker 1>which one shorter, because that's the one that gets worn

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<v Speaker 1>down quicker. I thought that was amazing, pretty neat. I

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<v Speaker 1>just figured they were interchangeable. Yep, nope, yep nope. So

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<v Speaker 1>like it's really kind of I had to stop and

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<v Speaker 1>put myself into this like standing like imagine myself standing

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<v Speaker 1>next to these elephants for like measurements for the average Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>you're like, what six ft? Yeah just about I'm pretty good.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm like a human dollar bill, you know, a dollar

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<v Speaker 1>bills like a little about six inches. Same thing here,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm six ft. Okay, so just stand me next to something.

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<v Speaker 1>You'd be like, it's about six ft. Don't you know

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<v Speaker 1>about the dollar bill? Well? No, is that used as

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<v Speaker 1>a measuring device when you're short of ruler? Yeah, it's

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<v Speaker 1>about six inches. What if you have no cash but

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<v Speaker 1>you do have a ruler, then you're can you spend

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<v Speaker 1>the ruler and a and a hat shop? You could

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<v Speaker 1>consuerably trade it. Remember that guy who traded he moved.

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<v Speaker 1>We went from a paper clip to like a house

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<v Speaker 1>trading up. Oh yeah, that guy. That guy could turn

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<v Speaker 1>a ruler into cash. He and soy Bombs share an

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<v Speaker 1>apartment now and uh an upstate New York bomb. All right,

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<v Speaker 1>so let's talk about the size of these ladies and

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<v Speaker 1>men because okay, so everybody, imagine me standing next to

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<v Speaker 1>an elephant, and you'll really drive all this home. Yes, right,

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<v Speaker 1>so An African forest elephant is Josh's height up to

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<v Speaker 1>about eight feet at the shoulder. Yeah, okay, yeah, you

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<v Speaker 1>don't measure from the top of the dome. Um. I

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<v Speaker 1>wonder why they do that with animals. That's always kind

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<v Speaker 1>of the case, right, because I think if the animals, like, well,

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<v Speaker 1>I want to seem taller, they could just lift their

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<v Speaker 1>head up very high, you know, or if they're trying

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<v Speaker 1>to keep a low profile, they keep their head down

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<v Speaker 1>so the shoulder it's tough to you know, like when

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<v Speaker 1>they're having their kindergarten class picture taken. Right. Uh, the

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<v Speaker 1>African bush elephant is taller. It's about eight to ten

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<v Speaker 1>feet at the shoulder. That's the biggest one. Yeah, four

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<v Speaker 1>to six tons, two to five tons on the forest.

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<v Speaker 1>African and then Asian is seven to nine ft about

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<v Speaker 1>three to five short tons. And we should say there's

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of variation in size here because I think

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<v Speaker 1>one of these experts said that the the outliers can

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<v Speaker 1>be as big as twenty taller or larger overall than

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<v Speaker 1>the average, which is huge variation. Yeah, there's I think

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<v Speaker 1>the record for an Asian elephant. And remember there, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>at the shoulders seven to nine ft. That's still pretty

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<v Speaker 1>pretty good size. But the record was eleven and a

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<v Speaker 1>quarter feet. And that's a big elephant. Like can you

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<v Speaker 1>imagine that's almost two of me. Yeah, like me standing

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<v Speaker 1>on my own shoulders, maybe squatted you own just a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit at the shoulder. That's how big that elephant was.

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<v Speaker 1>And when you when you're talking short tons, that's two

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<v Speaker 1>thousand pounds. So like an African bush elephant can get

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<v Speaker 1>on average up to twelve thousand pounds. That's a big

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<v Speaker 1>boy or a girl. Yeah, the boys are a little

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<v Speaker 1>bit bigger. Um, and they live a long long time.

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<v Speaker 1>Here's sort of some inspiring and sad facts. They can

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<v Speaker 1>live fifty seventy years. Uh. They've found and recorded at

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<v Speaker 1>least one elephant that lived to be eighty six that

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<v Speaker 1>has set the record, which is just amazing. But here's

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<v Speaker 1>the saddest thing. Um, if you are a zoo elephant,

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<v Speaker 1>you live maybe less than half as long. So I

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<v Speaker 1>have to say this. The RSPCA in West SUS six England,

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<v Speaker 1>UM has been there. Their numbers have been controversial before,

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<v Speaker 1>but in this two thousand and eight study they they

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<v Speaker 1>they took hundred African and Asian elephants that lived in

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<v Speaker 1>European zoos over the course of forty five years. And

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<v Speaker 1>this is what they came up with. So, I mean

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<v Speaker 1>even in the article that people weren't necessarily contesting this data.

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<v Speaker 1>But I think the way that they explained it was

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<v Speaker 1>that this was old data and so it gave you

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<v Speaker 1>a good idea of how long elephants lived in captivity,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, a few decades ago, back before they knew

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<v Speaker 1>more about keeping them in zoos. Yeah, and here's what

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<v Speaker 1>it says. It said, UM thirty six years and a

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<v Speaker 1>national park in Kenya, UM seventeen years in a zoo.

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<v Speaker 1>But it looks to me like, unless I'm reading this wrong,

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<v Speaker 1>that UM elephants that work in timber camps. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>they're very strong, so they are still using in timber

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<v Speaker 1>camps to haul wood uh in trees and things. They

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<v Speaker 1>actually live longer than zoo elephants. Yeah. So the timber

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<v Speaker 1>elephants of Burma, of Me and mar are very well

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<v Speaker 1>taken care of from what I understand, like they're they're

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<v Speaker 1>considered semi captive and for like the last hundred years

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<v Speaker 1>or so, UM, the people of Burma have you use

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<v Speaker 1>them to basically move huge trees right to pull them

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<v Speaker 1>out of the forest for like logging and stuff. But

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<v Speaker 1>they're really well cared for. There's like government veterinarians that

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<v Speaker 1>do health checks and each elephant has their own log

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<v Speaker 1>and from what I saw, which just seems mind blowing

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<v Speaker 1>to me, because there they're, you know, um, being held

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<v Speaker 1>captive in a way to work for humans. And so

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<v Speaker 1>just based on you know, our our track record of

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<v Speaker 1>using animals like that, I it's just weird to me

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<v Speaker 1>that they would be very well taken care of. But

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<v Speaker 1>supposedly they are. UM, and they're considered semi captive because

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<v Speaker 1>at night they're allowed to just kind of wander around

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<v Speaker 1>and go free in the forest and they interact with

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<v Speaker 1>wild Asian elephants and that's how they actually reproduce. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>they're they're not like there's no kind of reproductive oversight.

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<v Speaker 1>It's just go wild, you know. And UM, they apparently

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<v Speaker 1>live very long because they're very well taken care of.

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<v Speaker 1>And here is a little for you. When they get

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<v Speaker 1>pregnant in those working camps, they get maternity leave for

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<v Speaker 1>about a year. Yes, So a couple of more quick

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<v Speaker 1>facts and then we'll take a break. Um, little BB

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<v Speaker 1>Elephants are cared for by their mothers until they are

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<v Speaker 1>anywhere between thirteen and twenty years old. So it's almost like, well,

0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:27.120
<v Speaker 1>not quite, but it's almost like the human experience a

0:13:27.160 --> 0:13:29.040
<v Speaker 1>little bit. Yeah, you know somewhere in there. I doubt

0:13:29.040 --> 0:13:32.079
<v Speaker 1>if you're sitting your thirteen year old off, but if

0:13:32.080 --> 0:13:34.800
<v Speaker 1>you're a terrible parent, maybe let's say it's you know,

0:13:34.840 --> 0:13:37.040
<v Speaker 1>thirteen to twenty. Let's say that's eighteen years. It's about

0:13:37.080 --> 0:13:40.080
<v Speaker 1>like a high school age. Uh. And that's also when

0:13:40.120 --> 0:13:43.679
<v Speaker 1>they reach sexual maturity. It takes about twenty to twenty

0:13:43.720 --> 0:13:47.960
<v Speaker 1>two months of gestation, which is the longest longest gestational

0:13:48.040 --> 0:13:51.240
<v Speaker 1>period of any animal. I'm sorry, any mammal and a

0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:53.800
<v Speaker 1>little bb elephant ways between a hundred and fifty and

0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:58.000
<v Speaker 1>two fifty pounds. It's pretty cute. We take a break, Yes,

0:13:58.240 --> 0:14:21.600
<v Speaker 1>all right, more pounded facts right after this, Chuck. I

0:14:21.640 --> 0:14:23.760
<v Speaker 1>just think it's adorable that both of our wives got

0:14:23.800 --> 0:14:27.560
<v Speaker 1>us into elephants. We're gonna have to take us safari together.

0:14:28.240 --> 0:14:30.400
<v Speaker 1>We should do that, although that's very dangerous, Like we

0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:34.200
<v Speaker 1>don't even fly to you know, Tennessee together. We feared

0:14:34.240 --> 0:14:35.880
<v Speaker 1>that the plane will go down and the podcast will

0:14:35.880 --> 0:14:39.360
<v Speaker 1>be over. I guess we could trade off. Then it

0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:42.400
<v Speaker 1>would be pretty amazing story though, Like the podcast would

0:14:42.400 --> 0:14:44.480
<v Speaker 1>go down in history. If you and I were eaten

0:14:44.520 --> 0:14:47.240
<v Speaker 1>by tigers would be kind of it would be a

0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:49.760
<v Speaker 1>heck of a way to go. Well, Emily, and you

0:14:49.800 --> 0:14:51.680
<v Speaker 1>make it just take it over, there you go, and

0:14:51.720 --> 0:14:54.080
<v Speaker 1>it would just all be about animals. They should do

0:14:54.200 --> 0:14:57.760
<v Speaker 1>something together sometime, you know, you like, like they should

0:14:58.320 --> 0:15:01.440
<v Speaker 1>read listener mail or something like bad or or or

0:15:01.760 --> 0:15:03.400
<v Speaker 1>they should just start their own show called stuff you

0:15:03.400 --> 0:15:07.560
<v Speaker 1>should Know about our husbands. There you go, people, good idea.

0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:10.040
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if we would know, we would not.

0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:13.000
<v Speaker 1>They'd be like, you think they're so great, Let's tell

0:15:13.040 --> 0:15:16.360
<v Speaker 1>you about these slobs. No no, no, no, no, these puts.

0:15:16.800 --> 0:15:22.000
<v Speaker 1>So there should be a ding sound because these puts

0:15:22.280 --> 0:15:26.120
<v Speaker 1>on every show from now on. Alright, Elephants eat a

0:15:26.200 --> 0:15:28.160
<v Speaker 1>hundred to six hundred pounds of food in a day

0:15:28.240 --> 0:15:31.680
<v Speaker 1>and drink between sixteen and forty gallons of water. Say

0:15:31.680 --> 0:15:34.200
<v Speaker 1>that again, brother, A hundred to six hundred pounds of

0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:38.920
<v Speaker 1>food in a day. Um, and they are eating and

0:15:38.960 --> 0:15:41.840
<v Speaker 1>I love this. They basically spend their day when they're

0:15:41.880 --> 0:15:45.000
<v Speaker 1>awake fourteen to sixteen hours a day, just sort of

0:15:45.040 --> 0:15:48.400
<v Speaker 1>looking to eat and drink. Yeah, which is it stinks

0:15:48.600 --> 0:15:51.040
<v Speaker 1>like if you think about it, the reason why they

0:15:51.040 --> 0:15:53.760
<v Speaker 1>have to eat that much is not because they're so big,

0:15:54.240 --> 0:15:57.120
<v Speaker 1>but because, well it is in part but mostly because

0:15:57.400 --> 0:16:02.360
<v Speaker 1>they're herbivores and they're digestives. To some is ridiculously inefficient.

0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:06.040
<v Speaker 1>Like if if elephants are as intelligent as they appear

0:16:06.080 --> 0:16:08.440
<v Speaker 1>to be, and probably even more than they appear to

0:16:08.480 --> 0:16:10.520
<v Speaker 1>be once we start to like learn more about them,

0:16:10.560 --> 0:16:13.000
<v Speaker 1>I think all it's gonna do is just provide it

0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:18.240
<v Speaker 1>as cascading series of woes. Um. They like, if they

0:16:18.320 --> 0:16:21.560
<v Speaker 1>didn't have to spend so much of their time looking

0:16:21.640 --> 0:16:24.320
<v Speaker 1>for food, what would they be doing? Maybe they would

0:16:24.400 --> 0:16:27.880
<v Speaker 1>learn to paint on their own. Maybe. So the reason

0:16:27.960 --> 0:16:30.680
<v Speaker 1>why they're they're um, they eat so much again is

0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:33.360
<v Speaker 1>because they don't digest a lot of that food, and

0:16:33.440 --> 0:16:40.680
<v Speaker 1>so undigested stuff comes out as poop and such frequency

0:16:40.720 --> 0:16:43.000
<v Speaker 1>that you can actually make paper out of it. There's

0:16:43.080 --> 0:16:45.600
<v Speaker 1>elephant poop paper. People use it and they get the

0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:48.080
<v Speaker 1>fiber out of the elephant poop to make paper with.

0:16:49.120 --> 0:16:53.120
<v Speaker 1>That's how how undigested so much of their food is. Yeah,

0:16:53.200 --> 0:16:55.520
<v Speaker 1>they eat like you said, they are herbivore, so they

0:16:55.600 --> 0:16:59.240
<v Speaker 1>all kinds of plants. Um. They love fruit. I imagine

0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:02.760
<v Speaker 1>that's like the sweet sweet nectar when compared to you know,

0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:07.080
<v Speaker 1>like dry bamboo. Um. And they can study their poop

0:17:07.240 --> 0:17:10.560
<v Speaker 1>and learn a lot from their poop, just like most animals. Well,

0:17:10.560 --> 0:17:13.239
<v Speaker 1>elephants don't study their own poop. How do you know

0:17:14.480 --> 0:17:18.080
<v Speaker 1>they might? Now, of course scientists study it and they can.

0:17:18.119 --> 0:17:20.960
<v Speaker 1>They can learn a lot by you know, because like

0:17:21.000 --> 0:17:24.439
<v Speaker 1>you said, those African forest elephants, they're very elusive in

0:17:24.440 --> 0:17:26.120
<v Speaker 1>the forest and you can't find them, but you can't

0:17:26.119 --> 0:17:28.800
<v Speaker 1>find their poop everywhere. Yeah, you can tell their anus

0:17:28.800 --> 0:17:32.399
<v Speaker 1>size from the their poop size, which sounds hilarious and

0:17:32.480 --> 0:17:36.040
<v Speaker 1>it is. But you also can tell like the age

0:17:36.480 --> 0:17:39.800
<v Speaker 1>and the general size of the elephant based on their

0:17:39.840 --> 0:17:42.639
<v Speaker 1>anus size, which you find based on their poop size.

0:17:43.160 --> 0:17:46.760
<v Speaker 1>That's right. Plus you can make a banging paper out

0:17:46.760 --> 0:17:50.280
<v Speaker 1>of it too. Sure. Uh. The range, the African bush

0:17:50.320 --> 0:17:53.560
<v Speaker 1>elephants have a very wide range across Africa. Um south

0:17:53.600 --> 0:17:57.240
<v Speaker 1>of the Sahara Desert and the forest elephant are in

0:17:57.480 --> 0:18:00.960
<v Speaker 1>rainforest that's the name. Uh. Near the equator sort of

0:18:01.000 --> 0:18:05.760
<v Speaker 1>around Cameroon is where they're largely centered as far as Asian.

0:18:05.840 --> 0:18:08.800
<v Speaker 1>They're all over Southeast Asia. Um, they have some in

0:18:08.880 --> 0:18:12.119
<v Speaker 1>China even, but India is really where you're going to

0:18:12.200 --> 0:18:16.520
<v Speaker 1>find the most Asian elephants. Um see Thailand and Anesia, Sumatra,

0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:19.679
<v Speaker 1>Sri Lanka they each have more than a thousand. And

0:18:19.720 --> 0:18:21.639
<v Speaker 1>we already talked about Burma a little bit. They have

0:18:21.680 --> 0:18:26.200
<v Speaker 1>the second largest total population worldwide, I guess, except for India.

0:18:26.520 --> 0:18:30.159
<v Speaker 1>They have the the largest captive population though of at

0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:33.199
<v Speaker 1>least five thousand, all working in those government timber camps,

0:18:33.400 --> 0:18:36.359
<v Speaker 1>which again I'm just I'm sure somebody's gonna write and

0:18:36.359 --> 0:18:39.200
<v Speaker 1>be like, h don't they're not taking very well care

0:18:39.200 --> 0:18:41.920
<v Speaker 1>of But I didn't see anything like that, which I'm

0:18:41.960 --> 0:18:44.520
<v Speaker 1>just astounded by. I don't know if that's coming across

0:18:44.640 --> 0:18:47.959
<v Speaker 1>or not, but I'm really astounded. Yeah, and if you

0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:52.240
<v Speaker 1>listen to our episode, um, well, I guess it's either

0:18:52.280 --> 0:18:55.440
<v Speaker 1>from last week or it'll be next week. And then

0:18:55.480 --> 0:18:59.720
<v Speaker 1>I'm predicting the future about elephants swimming in the which

0:18:59.760 --> 0:19:03.080
<v Speaker 1>one set lock nest lock nests. They do love to swim,

0:19:03.119 --> 0:19:06.240
<v Speaker 1>and they are very floaty, they're very buoyant. Um, they

0:19:06.280 --> 0:19:08.720
<v Speaker 1>won't you're not gonna find an elephant drowned in the water.

0:19:09.560 --> 0:19:12.000
<v Speaker 1>They can not only swim, but if they get tired,

0:19:12.640 --> 0:19:16.080
<v Speaker 1>they can just float bob. Yeah, they can bob in

0:19:16.119 --> 0:19:20.679
<v Speaker 1>the water and they apparently an elephant has been recorded

0:19:20.720 --> 0:19:25.920
<v Speaker 1>as swimming forty eight kilometers thirty miles. Pretty amazing and

0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:31.440
<v Speaker 1>six hours at a stretch. That's pretty nuts. And baby

0:19:31.480 --> 0:19:33.720
<v Speaker 1>elephants one of the one of the greatest things you

0:19:33.720 --> 0:19:37.359
<v Speaker 1>can do is sit around and watch baby elephants splashing

0:19:37.480 --> 0:19:41.640
<v Speaker 1>in kittie pools on YouTube. They love it. They love

0:19:41.720 --> 0:19:45.280
<v Speaker 1>to swim. Yeah, let's talk about the trunk. Because when

0:19:45.359 --> 0:19:48.000
<v Speaker 1>you see an elephant and you watch this, if you'd like,

0:19:48.040 --> 0:19:50.679
<v Speaker 1>really study an elephant for a while, you look at

0:19:50.680 --> 0:19:55.359
<v Speaker 1>that trunk. It's it's it's amazing. It looks like a

0:19:55.400 --> 0:20:01.120
<v Speaker 1>completely separate living thing almost sometimes it Yeah, but it's

0:20:01.119 --> 0:20:03.240
<v Speaker 1>a nose. It's basically their upper lip and their nose

0:20:03.320 --> 0:20:06.520
<v Speaker 1>combined together in this elongated form. Yeah. But when they

0:20:06.560 --> 0:20:08.080
<v Speaker 1>you know, you watch an elephant, a lot of times

0:20:08.080 --> 0:20:10.960
<v Speaker 1>they're just standing still. But this trunk is doing so

0:20:11.000 --> 0:20:13.200
<v Speaker 1>many crazy looking things. I see what you mean. Yeah,

0:20:13.200 --> 0:20:16.000
<v Speaker 1>it just looks like its own, like its own animal,

0:20:16.040 --> 0:20:21.720
<v Speaker 1>almost like um the thing from the Adams Family, the

0:20:21.840 --> 0:20:25.600
<v Speaker 1>disembodied hand, That's exactly what I was thinking, or the

0:20:25.600 --> 0:20:28.920
<v Speaker 1>the alien hands syndrome guy from our short lived TV show,

0:20:29.119 --> 0:20:33.479
<v Speaker 1>right right, basically the same thing, right exactly. Uh. And

0:20:33.640 --> 0:20:35.679
<v Speaker 1>one of the big theories is is that trunk and

0:20:35.680 --> 0:20:38.720
<v Speaker 1>this makes a lot of sense to me evolutionarily speaking,

0:20:39.280 --> 0:20:45.120
<v Speaker 1>is that trunk developed um as compensation. Basically, I can

0:20:45.160 --> 0:20:48.400
<v Speaker 1>reach things higher without having to grow, or I can

0:20:48.440 --> 0:20:50.840
<v Speaker 1>get things on the ground without having to crouch down

0:20:50.840 --> 0:20:53.199
<v Speaker 1>and put my head on the ground, which makes me

0:20:53.320 --> 0:20:56.480
<v Speaker 1>very very vulnerable to attack. So I have this big, long,

0:20:56.600 --> 0:20:59.640
<v Speaker 1>extended nose that can go get stuff on the ground

0:20:59.720 --> 0:21:01.280
<v Speaker 1>or up above me, and I can still sort of

0:21:01.280 --> 0:21:05.000
<v Speaker 1>be safe. Yes, Okay, So it's a knows that you

0:21:05.040 --> 0:21:08.520
<v Speaker 1>can use to get things with, including water. Apparently it

0:21:08.560 --> 0:21:11.000
<v Speaker 1>holds up to two gallons of water in the trunk,

0:21:11.200 --> 0:21:17.399
<v Speaker 1>just in the trunk. Um. But it's also really um dextrous.

0:21:17.440 --> 0:21:21.000
<v Speaker 1>I guess it has a hundred thousand muscles in it,

0:21:21.160 --> 0:21:24.679
<v Speaker 1>both fast twitch and slow twitch. So I've read that

0:21:24.720 --> 0:21:27.520
<v Speaker 1>an elephant can pull a limb off of a tree

0:21:27.560 --> 0:21:30.520
<v Speaker 1>with its trunk or pluck a blade of grass out

0:21:30.560 --> 0:21:33.479
<v Speaker 1>of the ground like it's it can it can do

0:21:33.520 --> 0:21:37.560
<v Speaker 1>it all. Basically, it can deal cards whatever. But you

0:21:37.600 --> 0:21:41.080
<v Speaker 1>shouldn't train an elephant to deal cards. No, just put

0:21:41.119 --> 0:21:44.359
<v Speaker 1>the cards down and walk away. And if it happens,

0:21:44.359 --> 0:21:47.919
<v Speaker 1>it happens. That is that is the motto of dealing

0:21:47.920 --> 0:21:53.440
<v Speaker 1>with elephants. UM. And initially, you know, evolution might have said, hey,

0:21:53.640 --> 0:21:56.240
<v Speaker 1>use these great things to drink water out of. But

0:21:56.359 --> 0:21:58.440
<v Speaker 1>like we said, and we'll continue to hammer this home.

0:21:58.840 --> 0:22:02.080
<v Speaker 1>Elephants are super smart. So they said, hey, I've got

0:22:02.080 --> 0:22:07.919
<v Speaker 1>this really long fifth arm that has two hundred thousand

0:22:08.000 --> 0:22:10.520
<v Speaker 1>muscles in it, So I can get food, and I

0:22:10.560 --> 0:22:13.600
<v Speaker 1>can bathe myself, and I can pick up dust and

0:22:13.680 --> 0:22:15.560
<v Speaker 1>mud and put it all over my body if I

0:22:15.560 --> 0:22:17.239
<v Speaker 1>don't want to get sunburned, or if I want to

0:22:17.600 --> 0:22:20.080
<v Speaker 1>have a sort of low fi insect repellent, or I

0:22:20.080 --> 0:22:22.880
<v Speaker 1>can communicate with my buddy over there with my trunk. Yeah,

0:22:22.960 --> 0:22:24.720
<v Speaker 1>there's a lot of stuff they do with their trunk

0:22:24.800 --> 0:22:27.160
<v Speaker 1>that we're starting to figure out. There's a group called

0:22:27.200 --> 0:22:32.320
<v Speaker 1>Elephant Voices UM and they have an elephant gestures database

0:22:32.400 --> 0:22:36.760
<v Speaker 1>based on decades of studying elephants up close. UM and

0:22:36.840 --> 0:22:41.040
<v Speaker 1>they have a really complex and intricate um basically a

0:22:41.119 --> 0:22:43.480
<v Speaker 1>sign language that includes more than just their trunk, but

0:22:43.520 --> 0:22:45.880
<v Speaker 1>their trunk plays a big role in it too. Yeah.

0:22:45.880 --> 0:22:50.760
<v Speaker 1>There's one example on this article, flop trunk on head um,

0:22:50.840 --> 0:22:54.560
<v Speaker 1>and that is an elephant basically raising the head vertically

0:22:55.160 --> 0:22:58.119
<v Speaker 1>and then flipping their trunk really high up in the

0:22:58.119 --> 0:23:00.399
<v Speaker 1>air and letting it PLoP down on their head. That

0:23:00.520 --> 0:23:04.760
<v Speaker 1>is a very specific play based gesture, kind of a

0:23:04.840 --> 0:23:07.800
<v Speaker 1>joyful play. Yeah. Like if you see an elephant doing that,

0:23:08.040 --> 0:23:11.040
<v Speaker 1>they're having a good time. Yeah. The the Elephant Gestures

0:23:11.119 --> 0:23:14.800
<v Speaker 1>Database the names of the different things the gestures sound

0:23:14.840 --> 0:23:18.639
<v Speaker 1>like they were all written by Nell Flop trunk on

0:23:18.760 --> 0:23:23.080
<v Speaker 1>head at least chicken make so I've got another factor

0:23:23.160 --> 0:23:27.040
<v Speaker 1>the podcast for you ready, all right, baby elephants suck

0:23:27.119 --> 0:23:32.679
<v Speaker 1>their trunks like human babies suck their thumbs. That amazing.

0:23:33.280 --> 0:23:36.359
<v Speaker 1>I mean, forget about it, man, I can't even with

0:23:36.480 --> 0:23:41.159
<v Speaker 1>the stuff I know. Uh. And in Tim Burton's going

0:23:41.200 --> 0:23:43.760
<v Speaker 1>to ruin it all with a new Dumbo movie. Oh

0:23:43.920 --> 0:23:47.159
<v Speaker 1>is it live action or you know? He's yeah, I

0:23:47.200 --> 0:23:49.760
<v Speaker 1>think it's live action and c G. I why he's

0:23:49.760 --> 0:23:53.880
<v Speaker 1>gonna ruin it? Sure he is, poor Tim Burton, He's

0:23:53.920 --> 0:23:59.000
<v Speaker 1>the ruiner of things. You ruined everything. You ruiner Elephants.

0:23:59.040 --> 0:24:01.480
<v Speaker 1>All elephants are jen ended in Africa and then spread

0:24:01.520 --> 0:24:06.560
<v Speaker 1>throughout the world from there, including North America, across like

0:24:06.640 --> 0:24:10.240
<v Speaker 1>everything else, across the Bearing straight Land Bridge or Ice

0:24:10.280 --> 0:24:12.960
<v Speaker 1>Bridge depending on when it was, and then all the

0:24:13.000 --> 0:24:15.119
<v Speaker 1>way into South America from there. Yeah, that you can

0:24:15.200 --> 0:24:18.280
<v Speaker 1>make a pretty strong case that they drew humans into

0:24:18.359 --> 0:24:22.640
<v Speaker 1>North America because they migrated first and humans probably followed

0:24:22.680 --> 0:24:29.640
<v Speaker 1>them as hunters over like millions of years later. Oh yeah,

0:24:30.080 --> 0:24:34.560
<v Speaker 1>so um, the this is weird. So the the mammoth

0:24:34.960 --> 0:24:40.399
<v Speaker 1>and the elephant share a common ancestor, their most recent

0:24:40.440 --> 0:24:45.240
<v Speaker 1>common ancestors six million years in the past, which means

0:24:45.280 --> 0:24:48.760
<v Speaker 1>that elephants and mammoths coexisted at the same time. Like

0:24:48.760 --> 0:24:51.359
<v Speaker 1>elephants have been around a really long time. It's just

0:24:51.880 --> 0:24:55.520
<v Speaker 1>I guess when they moved out of Africa, um, and

0:24:55.560 --> 0:24:58.719
<v Speaker 1>beyond Asia up into you know the Russian steps in

0:24:58.720 --> 0:25:01.880
<v Speaker 1>Siberia and across the Lambridge, and then back down into

0:25:01.920 --> 0:25:04.480
<v Speaker 1>North America and then eventually South America. They took them

0:25:04.600 --> 0:25:07.560
<v Speaker 1>like many different forms, but the wooly mammoth is the

0:25:07.560 --> 0:25:10.959
<v Speaker 1>one you typically think of. But there were elephants at

0:25:11.000 --> 0:25:13.880
<v Speaker 1>the same time, there were also mammoths, and then there

0:25:13.880 --> 0:25:16.600
<v Speaker 1>were other kinds of mammoths besides the wooly mammoth, which

0:25:16.720 --> 0:25:20.400
<v Speaker 1>I think we did a wooly mammoth episode. We did

0:25:20.440 --> 0:25:24.160
<v Speaker 1>do a wooly mammoth episode. Um, if you say so,

0:25:24.440 --> 0:25:26.600
<v Speaker 1>we did, and they were all over. There was also

0:25:26.840 --> 0:25:29.840
<v Speaker 1>a type of mammoth, or not even a mammoth. It

0:25:29.880 --> 0:25:32.960
<v Speaker 1>was just a different type of elephant called a gampa

0:25:33.040 --> 0:25:36.879
<v Speaker 1>theater um that was in South America. And if you

0:25:36.880 --> 0:25:38.520
<v Speaker 1>look at a gampa theater I think it was a

0:25:38.560 --> 0:25:40.840
<v Speaker 1>little bigger than the elephants of today, but it just

0:25:40.880 --> 0:25:44.120
<v Speaker 1>looks like an elephant. And um, they used to hunt

0:25:44.160 --> 0:25:47.320
<v Speaker 1>them down in South America and hunted them to extinction.

0:25:47.359 --> 0:25:50.280
<v Speaker 1>They think possibly a combination of that and climate change.

0:25:50.440 --> 0:25:53.360
<v Speaker 1>But you don't think of elephants in and the America's

0:25:53.400 --> 0:25:56.480
<v Speaker 1>But there definitely were some here for a very long

0:25:56.520 --> 0:25:59.040
<v Speaker 1>time that climate change can't be real, Josh, because it's

0:25:59.040 --> 0:26:02.840
<v Speaker 1>snowed last week, right, Well, yeah, exactly. I mean just

0:26:02.920 --> 0:26:05.439
<v Speaker 1>imagine that it hadn't snowed and we would all know

0:26:05.480 --> 0:26:09.119
<v Speaker 1>that climate change is for real. Um, So there is

0:26:09.200 --> 0:26:12.800
<v Speaker 1>a or was rather a naturalist in the eighteenth century

0:26:12.840 --> 0:26:15.639
<v Speaker 1>France name. And this is a great name. You want

0:26:15.640 --> 0:26:18.560
<v Speaker 1>to say it? Actually you're a French expert. Oh, I

0:26:18.720 --> 0:26:24.800
<v Speaker 1>wasn't expected this. George Louis Leclerc, the Comte de Bouffon.

0:26:26.760 --> 0:26:28.440
<v Speaker 1>Was that his title? Is that what that means? Yeah?

0:26:28.440 --> 0:26:32.040
<v Speaker 1>He was the Count of Boufonka, which I'd be like,

0:26:32.080 --> 0:26:36.200
<v Speaker 1>can I get another count Chip instead of Bouffon. Don't

0:26:36.200 --> 0:26:39.400
<v Speaker 1>know what's wrong with buff It's so so, It's okay,

0:26:39.760 --> 0:26:43.280
<v Speaker 1>it's it's a a kind of a garish word, you

0:26:43.320 --> 0:26:46.360
<v Speaker 1>know what I'm saying. Sure it sounds like Bufont. Yeah,

0:26:46.480 --> 0:26:49.520
<v Speaker 1>and like he wants at Bouffont herity these days? Nobody,

0:26:49.720 --> 0:26:53.600
<v Speaker 1>nobody except the B fifty two and maybe that lady

0:26:53.640 --> 0:26:58.560
<v Speaker 1>from the old um. Now what was the name of

0:26:58.600 --> 0:27:05.119
<v Speaker 1>that steakhouse? The local steakhouse outback steaks? No, what's the

0:27:05.119 --> 0:27:08.760
<v Speaker 1>other one? Longhorn? Do you remember the ads of the

0:27:08.840 --> 0:27:12.400
<v Speaker 1>nineties with the lady with the Buffont Yeah you do.

0:27:12.600 --> 0:27:14.639
<v Speaker 1>I really don't. What was her deal? She was just

0:27:14.720 --> 0:27:18.080
<v Speaker 1>like a proto hipster lady. It was. Yeah, it was

0:27:18.119 --> 0:27:22.280
<v Speaker 1>on the Longhorn commercials. Very interesting, man. Now I could

0:27:22.320 --> 0:27:25.399
<v Speaker 1>go for a steak, Yeah, me too. Um. All right,

0:27:25.520 --> 0:27:31.160
<v Speaker 1>so where were we right? The eighteenth century century naturalist Um,

0:27:31.359 --> 0:27:35.959
<v Speaker 1>he wrote a lot in about natural history, and he

0:27:36.000 --> 0:27:39.400
<v Speaker 1>loved the elephant, and he was really knocked out by

0:27:39.680 --> 0:27:44.399
<v Speaker 1>the intelligence of why's that funny? Just the idea of

0:27:44.480 --> 0:27:46.719
<v Speaker 1>him being like, man, I am knocked out by that

0:27:46.880 --> 0:27:50.320
<v Speaker 1>is far out man. Um. He was knocked out by

0:27:50.359 --> 0:27:54.960
<v Speaker 1>the brain and the intelligence of the elephant. And he

0:27:55.000 --> 0:27:58.600
<v Speaker 1>said it approaches near to man and understanding as much

0:27:58.640 --> 0:28:02.399
<v Speaker 1>at least as matter can approach to mind, which I

0:28:02.640 --> 0:28:05.080
<v Speaker 1>understood the first half of that. I think in eighteenth

0:28:05.080 --> 0:28:09.239
<v Speaker 1>century speak, that means these dudes are really smart. And

0:28:09.280 --> 0:28:12.280
<v Speaker 1>I mean like he wasn't just you know, making stuff

0:28:12.359 --> 0:28:14.879
<v Speaker 1>up here like this is he was onto something because

0:28:15.320 --> 0:28:19.600
<v Speaker 1>elephants are extremely intelligent from what we can tell. And

0:28:19.640 --> 0:28:22.080
<v Speaker 1>again we're just learning more and more about him. And

0:28:22.119 --> 0:28:25.360
<v Speaker 1>as we learn more about him and start like study

0:28:25.480 --> 0:28:27.399
<v Speaker 1>the way that they interact with one another and how

0:28:27.400 --> 0:28:30.239
<v Speaker 1>they interact with us, we're like, well, these are some

0:28:30.320 --> 0:28:33.159
<v Speaker 1>of the sharpest animals on the planet. Yeah, they have

0:28:33.440 --> 0:28:38.120
<v Speaker 1>different personalities. Uh, each elephant has its own personality, and

0:28:38.400 --> 0:28:40.640
<v Speaker 1>you know you've heard about an elephant not forgetting they

0:28:40.720 --> 0:28:44.560
<v Speaker 1>do have a great memory and great recognition ability. And

0:28:44.600 --> 0:28:47.920
<v Speaker 1>this story, everyone, I love. This story is kind of

0:28:47.960 --> 0:28:51.880
<v Speaker 1>the best thing ever. In at a sanctuary in uh

0:28:51.960 --> 0:28:56.480
<v Speaker 1>Tennessee that was a resident elephant named Jenny. They introduced

0:28:56.480 --> 0:29:01.240
<v Speaker 1>a new lady named Shirley, an Asian eleph and they

0:29:01.440 --> 0:29:04.840
<v Speaker 1>went berserk for one another. They were checking each other out,

0:29:04.880 --> 0:29:09.640
<v Speaker 1>they were slapping trunks, they were really animated. Uh. They

0:29:09.760 --> 0:29:14.480
<v Speaker 1>described it as euphoria bellowing, and then Jenny starts bellowing,

0:29:14.880 --> 0:29:17.560
<v Speaker 1>and they said that I've never experienced anything that intense

0:29:17.600 --> 0:29:21.680
<v Speaker 1>without it being aggression. They did so a little digging, uh.

0:29:21.720 --> 0:29:25.160
<v Speaker 1>And it turns out that twenty three years earlier, for

0:29:25.240 --> 0:29:28.080
<v Speaker 1>just a few months, Jenny and Shirley were in the

0:29:28.120 --> 0:29:32.160
<v Speaker 1>same circus together and they saw each other twenty three

0:29:32.240 --> 0:29:35.880
<v Speaker 1>years later and we're like, girl, what do you what

0:29:35.920 --> 0:29:37.880
<v Speaker 1>have you been up to? Well? I think is cool

0:29:37.920 --> 0:29:40.360
<v Speaker 1>about that story in addition to the fact that like

0:29:40.400 --> 0:29:43.680
<v Speaker 1>they remembered each other after twenty three years, but that

0:29:44.000 --> 0:29:46.040
<v Speaker 1>also it says so much about them that they were

0:29:46.040 --> 0:29:49.960
<v Speaker 1>able to form a bond like that just a few months.

0:29:49.960 --> 0:29:52.080
<v Speaker 1>In just a few months. Yeah, I think this has

0:29:52.080 --> 0:29:55.600
<v Speaker 1>a tremendous amount about elephants and elephants society. What a story.

0:29:56.000 --> 0:30:00.440
<v Speaker 1>I love it, ye so um because they have these

0:30:00.520 --> 0:30:04.840
<v Speaker 1>kind of relationships with one another. They have really complex

0:30:05.360 --> 0:30:11.160
<v Speaker 1>um as puts it, very rich um societies and families

0:30:11.400 --> 0:30:14.360
<v Speaker 1>and groups that they live in, their their their social

0:30:14.440 --> 0:30:18.960
<v Speaker 1>networks are very rich and complex, right, And one of

0:30:19.000 --> 0:30:22.880
<v Speaker 1>the ways, um, I mean, like, I didn't realize this,

0:30:22.920 --> 0:30:27.200
<v Speaker 1>but I came across this in researching this article. Apparently,

0:30:27.240 --> 0:30:29.840
<v Speaker 1>like if you see like a bunch of deer hanging around,

0:30:29.960 --> 0:30:33.400
<v Speaker 1>or some birds flying together, they're not like buddies or friends.

0:30:33.400 --> 0:30:37.640
<v Speaker 1>They don't know one from another. Typically don't say that,

0:30:38.240 --> 0:30:40.360
<v Speaker 1>but I mean, I hadn't really thought about that before.

0:30:40.360 --> 0:30:43.360
<v Speaker 1>I was just a second back. Always assumed at least

0:30:43.360 --> 0:30:46.040
<v Speaker 1>they were they knew each other by smell or something

0:30:46.120 --> 0:30:49.040
<v Speaker 1>like that. But from what I saw, I can't remember

0:30:49.080 --> 0:30:50.840
<v Speaker 1>where I saw it, but they were they were saying like,

0:30:50.880 --> 0:30:55.040
<v Speaker 1>it's atypical for animals to recognize one another as individuals,

0:30:55.880 --> 0:30:59.720
<v Speaker 1>and the elephants definitely do and as as evidenced by

0:30:59.760 --> 0:31:02.320
<v Speaker 1>that story. But that kind of lends evidence to the

0:31:02.360 --> 0:31:05.840
<v Speaker 1>idea that elephants are self aware, which is a growing

0:31:05.880 --> 0:31:09.160
<v Speaker 1>awareness among humans that elephants seem to be self aware.

0:31:09.320 --> 0:31:11.360
<v Speaker 1>And one way we test animals to see if they're

0:31:11.400 --> 0:31:14.240
<v Speaker 1>self aware is called the mirror test, which is kind

0:31:14.240 --> 0:31:16.800
<v Speaker 1>of a test. I think we can improve on it,

0:31:16.840 --> 0:31:21.120
<v Speaker 1>but it does it does suggest that the possibility that

0:31:21.160 --> 0:31:25.479
<v Speaker 1>the animal sees itself as an individual. Yeah, so this

0:31:25.560 --> 0:31:29.120
<v Speaker 1>was developed by Gordon Gallup Jr. Seventy So I definitely

0:31:29.160 --> 0:31:32.080
<v Speaker 1>think there's an update that we need here. We need

0:31:32.080 --> 0:31:35.840
<v Speaker 1>this uh two point o version. But they did. They

0:31:35.840 --> 0:31:40.520
<v Speaker 1>test a lot of animals. Um apes, great apes, dolphins, orcas,

0:31:40.560 --> 0:31:44.400
<v Speaker 1>and magpies have passed this test, along with one Asian

0:31:44.440 --> 0:31:47.480
<v Speaker 1>elephant named Happy. And what they do is they get

0:31:47.480 --> 0:31:50.440
<v Speaker 1>a mirror. They take the animal and put a red

0:31:50.480 --> 0:31:54.400
<v Speaker 1>mark and paint this red mark and let's say, on

0:31:54.440 --> 0:31:57.240
<v Speaker 1>their face something that they can't see without a mirror.

0:31:57.920 --> 0:32:01.200
<v Speaker 1>They hold up the mirror and if the animal looks

0:32:01.200 --> 0:32:04.880
<v Speaker 1>at the mirror and then doesn't like like, if they

0:32:04.960 --> 0:32:06.400
<v Speaker 1>did this to me, I would throw my poop at

0:32:06.440 --> 0:32:09.400
<v Speaker 1>the mirror and smash the mirror. But if the animal

0:32:09.440 --> 0:32:11.880
<v Speaker 1>doesn't do that and they actually touch their own face,

0:32:12.800 --> 0:32:16.360
<v Speaker 1>then they understand that they're seeing themselves and not some

0:32:16.480 --> 0:32:20.080
<v Speaker 1>other weird animal across from them. Right, they see they

0:32:20.200 --> 0:32:23.760
<v Speaker 1>realize that they're seeing their reflection in That shows self

0:32:23.760 --> 0:32:27.120
<v Speaker 1>awarenes if they if they laugh at how silly they look,

0:32:27.160 --> 0:32:30.800
<v Speaker 1>then that really shows self awareness, maybe even self consciousness,

0:32:30.840 --> 0:32:33.320
<v Speaker 1>you know. Yeah, and it takes human children a couple

0:32:33.320 --> 0:32:35.640
<v Speaker 1>of years to pass this test. We should say, yes,

0:32:35.800 --> 0:32:40.480
<v Speaker 1>did you I So there's apparently not all the great

0:32:40.560 --> 0:32:45.160
<v Speaker 1>apes past the test that guerrillas don't, which is weird.

0:32:45.320 --> 0:32:49.000
<v Speaker 1>But they think that possibly guerrillas don't because making eye

0:32:49.000 --> 0:32:53.160
<v Speaker 1>contact in um, the guerrilla world is such an aggressive

0:32:53.200 --> 0:32:56.080
<v Speaker 1>act that they just don't look at themselves in the

0:32:56.120 --> 0:32:58.800
<v Speaker 1>mirror enough to see that they have that mark on

0:32:58.840 --> 0:33:01.040
<v Speaker 1>their face. That's what they think. Yeah, and this doesn't

0:33:01.080 --> 0:33:03.440
<v Speaker 1>you know, this isn't like we said, it's pretty low fi.

0:33:03.560 --> 0:33:06.520
<v Speaker 1>It's not some you can't say this is proof that

0:33:06.560 --> 0:33:09.560
<v Speaker 1>they are self aware and sentient. But um, it's a

0:33:09.560 --> 0:33:13.560
<v Speaker 1>pretty cool test it is. Plus also, dogs don't pass it,

0:33:13.600 --> 0:33:16.760
<v Speaker 1>which automatically means that it's a failure of a test

0:33:17.320 --> 0:33:20.320
<v Speaker 1>because Momo herself proves that all and all dogs are

0:33:20.320 --> 0:33:23.880
<v Speaker 1>self aware and smart, imperfect in every way. Yeah, and

0:33:23.880 --> 0:33:26.320
<v Speaker 1>they also do point out with dogs like their their

0:33:26.440 --> 0:33:29.160
<v Speaker 1>best Uh, the way they see the world is through

0:33:29.200 --> 0:33:31.800
<v Speaker 1>their nose and so maybe this isn't the best test

0:33:31.840 --> 0:33:35.680
<v Speaker 1>for them, right, so they could do a cent version

0:33:35.720 --> 0:33:37.760
<v Speaker 1>maybe right. I don't know how you would do it.

0:33:37.800 --> 0:33:40.080
<v Speaker 1>I've been trying to figure it out for days with

0:33:40.160 --> 0:33:43.560
<v Speaker 1>Momo just in my head. But yeah, I'll eventually experiment

0:33:43.600 --> 0:33:46.160
<v Speaker 1>on mo and then well, there is another test that

0:33:46.200 --> 0:33:49.080
<v Speaker 1>they use to kind of show self awareness and the

0:33:49.200 --> 0:33:53.160
<v Speaker 1>idea of individual identity, and that's the third party relationships. Yeah,

0:33:53.160 --> 0:33:56.280
<v Speaker 1>this is pretty cool. So um they I guess they.

0:33:56.360 --> 0:34:00.200
<v Speaker 1>It says they accidentally drive a jeep in between an

0:34:00.200 --> 0:34:04.920
<v Speaker 1>elephant and her her offspringer baby, and the elephant might

0:34:04.960 --> 0:34:07.520
<v Speaker 1>not notice because she's busy doing something else. But if

0:34:07.560 --> 0:34:12.080
<v Speaker 1>another elephant trumpets to the mom elephant to say, hey,

0:34:12.120 --> 0:34:15.200
<v Speaker 1>there's a jeep between you and your baby, that elephant

0:34:15.239 --> 0:34:17.839
<v Speaker 1>is indicating that it's aware that that mom and that

0:34:17.920 --> 0:34:22.080
<v Speaker 1>baby are related, that they have a relationship that has

0:34:22.120 --> 0:34:25.440
<v Speaker 1>nothing to do necessarily with that third elephant who warned

0:34:25.440 --> 0:34:31.480
<v Speaker 1>the mom. That's not supposed to exist among non sentient beings.

0:34:32.280 --> 0:34:34.320
<v Speaker 1>And by the way, if all this talk about sentience

0:34:34.360 --> 0:34:37.120
<v Speaker 1>and self awareness among animals is floating your boat. We

0:34:37.200 --> 0:34:40.440
<v Speaker 1>did a two part series on animal rights that touched

0:34:40.440 --> 0:34:43.360
<v Speaker 1>on this heavily. Yeah, that's right, because it was a

0:34:43.360 --> 0:34:47.160
<v Speaker 1>famous case where they were trying to get a personhood

0:34:47.200 --> 0:34:50.439
<v Speaker 1>and human rights for a chimp. Right, yeah, the Non

0:34:50.680 --> 0:34:54.759
<v Speaker 1>Human Rights Project. They moved on to elephants, including the

0:34:54.840 --> 0:34:58.719
<v Speaker 1>elephant Happy that passed the mirror test, and right now

0:34:58.760 --> 0:35:01.520
<v Speaker 1>Happy is in the Bronx Zoo, and the Non Human

0:35:01.640 --> 0:35:06.720
<v Speaker 1>Rights Projects position is basically like, um, an elephants range

0:35:07.400 --> 0:35:12.480
<v Speaker 1>is like at least a hundred times what the exhibit

0:35:12.560 --> 0:35:16.239
<v Speaker 1>that Happy lives in is. It's like an acre. And

0:35:16.719 --> 0:35:18.879
<v Speaker 1>their range is so wide that in a single day,

0:35:18.960 --> 0:35:22.880
<v Speaker 1>Happy in Africa would probably walk about a hundred acres.

0:35:23.280 --> 0:35:27.200
<v Speaker 1>But Happy as an acre, and Happy is a sentient

0:35:27.400 --> 0:35:30.600
<v Speaker 1>being and deserves better, and so they're trying to spring

0:35:30.640 --> 0:35:34.879
<v Speaker 1>her by making her and by by bestowing personhood through

0:35:34.920 --> 0:35:38.080
<v Speaker 1>the courts. And they actually got a habeas corpus issued,

0:35:38.600 --> 0:35:40.640
<v Speaker 1>which you only do that for humans. And then the

0:35:40.680 --> 0:35:43.680
<v Speaker 1>only other time it's it's happened is with chimps through

0:35:43.719 --> 0:35:46.400
<v Speaker 1>the Non Human Rights Project. Uh, and it's up in

0:35:46.440 --> 0:35:49.480
<v Speaker 1>the air. But the judge basically said, hey, uh, you

0:35:49.520 --> 0:35:53.480
<v Speaker 1>guys need to show whether or not you're unlawfully imprisoning

0:35:53.520 --> 0:35:58.440
<v Speaker 1>ascension being a person basically. Yeah, so that's where it

0:35:58.440 --> 0:36:00.800
<v Speaker 1>stands right now. All right, let's take a break and

0:36:00.880 --> 0:36:03.319
<v Speaker 1>contemplate that for a couple of hours, and then we'll

0:36:03.920 --> 0:36:06.160
<v Speaker 1>dust ourselves off, come back and talk a little bit

0:36:06.200 --> 0:36:09.680
<v Speaker 1>about the difference between male and female elephants and more

0:36:09.680 --> 0:36:32.560
<v Speaker 1>about their social component right after this. So this is

0:36:32.600 --> 0:36:35.160
<v Speaker 1>fun when you talk about the male and female elephants.

0:36:35.560 --> 0:36:40.680
<v Speaker 1>This whole episode is fun. So males leave when they're

0:36:41.000 --> 0:36:44.120
<v Speaker 1>young teenagers. They leave earlier than the little ladies do.

0:36:44.719 --> 0:36:47.879
<v Speaker 1>They set off on their own. UM. They might move

0:36:47.920 --> 0:36:50.400
<v Speaker 1>from group to group. They may join up with another family,

0:36:50.520 --> 0:36:56.480
<v Speaker 1>but by and large they usually get around and live alone. UM.

0:36:56.520 --> 0:37:00.239
<v Speaker 1>But they do, they do form groups when they need to. UM.

0:37:00.280 --> 0:37:02.600
<v Speaker 1>It's not permanent, you know, it could change, and it

0:37:02.719 --> 0:37:06.720
<v Speaker 1>is a static situation. UM. Kind of like going between

0:37:06.760 --> 0:37:09.840
<v Speaker 1>different groups and different groups of males getting together. But

0:37:09.880 --> 0:37:11.759
<v Speaker 1>when they do get together, the males, there is a

0:37:11.800 --> 0:37:16.440
<v Speaker 1>definite hierarchy involved, um, seniority based on size and age.

0:37:17.040 --> 0:37:20.279
<v Speaker 1>And that hierarchy is really important, UM to kind of

0:37:20.320 --> 0:37:23.719
<v Speaker 1>maintain order when it comes to like who gets the

0:37:23.760 --> 0:37:26.959
<v Speaker 1>water first and stuff like that. Right or where where

0:37:27.040 --> 0:37:29.640
<v Speaker 1>which way we're gonna walk to go find water or

0:37:29.719 --> 0:37:32.240
<v Speaker 1>something like that. There needs to be somebody in charge.

0:37:32.480 --> 0:37:36.120
<v Speaker 1>But supposedly when when there's plenty of water and everybody's

0:37:36.160 --> 0:37:38.279
<v Speaker 1>got all the food they need or whatever, that's that

0:37:38.440 --> 0:37:43.239
<v Speaker 1>hierarchy can break down pretty easily. Um, but also informally

0:37:43.320 --> 0:37:45.880
<v Speaker 1>not like it. It breaks down in like society just

0:37:45.920 --> 0:37:49.040
<v Speaker 1>crumbles among this group of males, and it breaks down

0:37:49.040 --> 0:37:52.000
<v Speaker 1>because it's not necessary, which is kind of neat. And

0:37:52.200 --> 0:37:56.400
<v Speaker 1>apparently the groups of males that hang out together are

0:37:56.520 --> 0:38:01.320
<v Speaker 1>um are likened to a group of old drinking buddies.

0:38:01.920 --> 0:38:05.480
<v Speaker 1>They're just rowdy. Yeah, it's kind of funny, rough housing

0:38:05.560 --> 0:38:09.359
<v Speaker 1>and all that kind of stuff. Males occasionally will go

0:38:09.520 --> 0:38:11.560
<v Speaker 1>through something it's kind of like being in heat. It

0:38:11.640 --> 0:38:18.200
<v Speaker 1>sounds like called must well well done m us th

0:38:18.520 --> 0:38:22.360
<v Speaker 1>h uh. And this is when they just their testosterone

0:38:22.440 --> 0:38:26.800
<v Speaker 1>goes through the roof and they are like, I need

0:38:27.160 --> 0:38:31.040
<v Speaker 1>to mate, Like yesterday I got the itch. I got

0:38:31.040 --> 0:38:33.880
<v Speaker 1>a severe itch and I can't scratch it with my

0:38:33.920 --> 0:38:37.920
<v Speaker 1>tusk because they're fixed. Rough housing with my drinking buddies

0:38:38.000 --> 0:38:41.480
<v Speaker 1>isn't helping. None of that is helping. Um. And when

0:38:41.480 --> 0:38:46.600
<v Speaker 1>they're going through this must phase, UM, they actually, like

0:38:46.680 --> 0:38:51.200
<v Speaker 1>all the other male elephants recognize this and say, hey, um,

0:38:51.320 --> 0:38:54.880
<v Speaker 1>freddie over. There's as you can tell, guys, is he's

0:38:54.920 --> 0:38:57.960
<v Speaker 1>really feeling it. So why don't we let him drink first?

0:38:58.440 --> 0:39:00.799
<v Speaker 1>And why don't we just kind of go where he

0:39:00.840 --> 0:39:03.680
<v Speaker 1>wants to go? Right now, he's leaking a trail of

0:39:03.880 --> 0:39:07.680
<v Speaker 1>urine everywhere. That's literal physical warning to the rest of

0:39:07.800 --> 0:39:10.640
<v Speaker 1>us to stay back. Yeah, and to a little cent

0:39:10.800 --> 0:39:14.640
<v Speaker 1>for for ladies to say, well, well, well let me

0:39:14.680 --> 0:39:17.040
<v Speaker 1>follow this trail and see where it goes. It smells

0:39:17.080 --> 0:39:22.759
<v Speaker 1>like sex panthers a hundred percent of the time. What

0:39:22.960 --> 0:39:26.440
<v Speaker 1>is the half it works? Half the time? Half the

0:39:26.440 --> 0:39:29.920
<v Speaker 1>time it works? I don't remember. I should know that

0:39:30.280 --> 0:39:33.400
<v Speaker 1>we both should chuck. We both just failed spectacularly. Oh

0:39:33.600 --> 0:39:36.040
<v Speaker 1>and occasionally, uh, and this is kind of what I've

0:39:36.040 --> 0:39:38.360
<v Speaker 1>seen is the only times when elephants really get aggressive

0:39:38.400 --> 0:39:42.200
<v Speaker 1>with one another. But um, if it gets pretty extreme, um,

0:39:42.239 --> 0:39:45.800
<v Speaker 1>and these male elephants there's a couple of them, um

0:39:45.840 --> 0:39:48.680
<v Speaker 1>going through must they will they will go at it

0:39:49.040 --> 0:39:53.160
<v Speaker 1>to um to get the lady. They will go each other. Um.

0:39:53.200 --> 0:39:55.239
<v Speaker 1>And you know, no one wants to talk about that

0:39:55.800 --> 0:39:58.839
<v Speaker 1>because it's everyone wants to think elephants are always getting along,

0:39:59.239 --> 0:40:01.279
<v Speaker 1>but sometimes when there's a couple of dudes around that

0:40:01.320 --> 0:40:04.520
<v Speaker 1>are both super rebbed up, they can get in a

0:40:04.600 --> 0:40:08.160
<v Speaker 1>fight over a lady to the death sometimes. And I

0:40:08.200 --> 0:40:11.319
<v Speaker 1>think you kind of said it, but males mostly live

0:40:11.440 --> 0:40:14.120
<v Speaker 1>on their own, and they do form these groups, and

0:40:14.160 --> 0:40:16.840
<v Speaker 1>they do have friendships and bonds with other males, but

0:40:16.880 --> 0:40:20.960
<v Speaker 1>they are very frequently found like traveling by themselves, probably

0:40:20.960 --> 0:40:23.839
<v Speaker 1>to avoid stuff like that. But if you're bummed out

0:40:23.880 --> 0:40:26.840
<v Speaker 1>by the fact that elephants will kill other elephants to

0:40:26.840 --> 0:40:31.719
<v Speaker 1>to have access to females, you can take heart and

0:40:31.800 --> 0:40:36.520
<v Speaker 1>that elephants aren't territorial at all. They don't have territory.

0:40:36.840 --> 0:40:40.080
<v Speaker 1>And when different groups of elephants, whether it's males and

0:40:40.760 --> 0:40:45.160
<v Speaker 1>uh groups of females or different groups of um of

0:40:45.239 --> 0:40:47.360
<v Speaker 1>the same sex or whatever, you have a bunch of

0:40:47.360 --> 0:40:49.720
<v Speaker 1>different groups of elephants coming together in the same place,

0:40:49.920 --> 0:40:53.680
<v Speaker 1>they basically have a party, a jamboree. Do Like, if

0:40:53.719 --> 0:40:55.719
<v Speaker 1>it's a body of water or a place where there's

0:40:55.719 --> 0:40:58.080
<v Speaker 1>a lot of fruit or some reason for a bunch

0:40:58.120 --> 0:41:01.880
<v Speaker 1>of elephants who don't know one another get together. It's

0:41:02.360 --> 0:41:05.439
<v Speaker 1>not only a party, but at that party you can

0:41:05.480 --> 0:41:09.520
<v Speaker 1>have like Shirley's in, uh, who is it? And Jenny's going,

0:41:09.960 --> 0:41:12.560
<v Speaker 1>oh my god, I haven't seen you in twelve years.

0:41:13.080 --> 0:41:14.800
<v Speaker 1>What are you up to? Is that your little baby?

0:41:15.800 --> 0:41:18.560
<v Speaker 1>It's the sweetest thing. Yeah, they like they get really

0:41:18.600 --> 0:41:21.600
<v Speaker 1>excited when they see old friends. They'll do like pirouettes

0:41:22.360 --> 0:41:25.400
<v Speaker 1>pe poop. Sometimes they pee and poop out of excitement

0:41:25.400 --> 0:41:28.879
<v Speaker 1>to see one another, which is adorable. Yeah, and is

0:41:29.080 --> 0:41:33.000
<v Speaker 1>um kind of lone wolf. As the males can be, Um,

0:41:33.080 --> 0:41:36.240
<v Speaker 1>the females are really um. This is when you really

0:41:36.320 --> 0:41:42.719
<v Speaker 1>like get the heartwarm, going, heartwarm, heart warm, heartworm. They'll

0:41:42.760 --> 0:41:45.080
<v Speaker 1>give you heartwarm thinking about this is when it can

0:41:45.120 --> 0:41:50.160
<v Speaker 1>warm your heart. Because females they lived very much and organized, uh,

0:41:50.200 --> 0:41:53.319
<v Speaker 1>in an organized way. They live in family groups. There

0:41:53.360 --> 0:41:57.600
<v Speaker 1>are mothers sometimes three generations all together and their little

0:41:57.600 --> 0:42:02.000
<v Speaker 1>pups and their aunts and their moms and grandmas. There

0:42:02.080 --> 0:42:04.520
<v Speaker 1>might be up to thirty of them together with all

0:42:04.560 --> 0:42:08.000
<v Speaker 1>their kids. And they're all led, which is usually the

0:42:08.000 --> 0:42:10.719
<v Speaker 1>oldest one, but not always. But they're led by a matriarch.

0:42:10.760 --> 0:42:13.279
<v Speaker 1>And the matriarch is the one that's like, let's go

0:42:13.400 --> 0:42:17.840
<v Speaker 1>this way. Um, not because I just am older and smarter,

0:42:17.960 --> 0:42:21.319
<v Speaker 1>but I actually have experience that I can remember that

0:42:21.400 --> 0:42:25.000
<v Speaker 1>will help lead us to safety. Yeah, which is pretty spectacular.

0:42:25.040 --> 0:42:29.040
<v Speaker 1>It's another thing that's that's remarkable about elephants is that

0:42:29.320 --> 0:42:33.319
<v Speaker 1>the matriarchs lead by experience. There was this um this

0:42:33.640 --> 0:42:40.640
<v Speaker 1>drought in Tanzania, and the different herds led by matriarchs,

0:42:40.640 --> 0:42:43.560
<v Speaker 1>they were old enough to remember the last drought back

0:42:43.600 --> 0:42:47.319
<v Speaker 1>in nineteen fifty eight to nineteen sixty one, the ones

0:42:47.360 --> 0:42:50.759
<v Speaker 1>that had lived through that before as younger, younger elephants

0:42:51.400 --> 0:42:54.719
<v Speaker 1>um they remembered how the herd survived, and so their

0:42:54.719 --> 0:42:58.759
<v Speaker 1>herd was likelier to survive that drought than herds that

0:42:58.800 --> 0:43:01.840
<v Speaker 1>were led by younger atriarchs that hadn't lived through that

0:43:01.920 --> 0:43:05.279
<v Speaker 1>previous drought. So they remember this stuff and they they

0:43:05.360 --> 0:43:09.279
<v Speaker 1>lead their their herds based on this past experience and

0:43:09.320 --> 0:43:11.560
<v Speaker 1>the wisdom that they gained from it. Let's just say

0:43:11.560 --> 0:43:15.920
<v Speaker 1>it through from wisdom. They lead by wisdom, they do.

0:43:16.160 --> 0:43:22.160
<v Speaker 1>And some matriarchs are very confident, uh, they are very um.

0:43:22.200 --> 0:43:24.440
<v Speaker 1>Some are very vigilant though, and a little more nervous.

0:43:24.440 --> 0:43:26.759
<v Speaker 1>It kind of depends on who your matriarch is. Some

0:43:26.800 --> 0:43:29.600
<v Speaker 1>are very maternal, and you know when they they send

0:43:29.600 --> 0:43:31.839
<v Speaker 1>the signal for everyone to go. They're like, well, let's

0:43:31.840 --> 0:43:36.319
<v Speaker 1>wait because Janice's little pup is still bathing, so let's

0:43:36.320 --> 0:43:40.200
<v Speaker 1>all hang out. Uh. Then some of them are more

0:43:40.280 --> 0:43:42.439
<v Speaker 1>like no, no, no, come on, get get out of water.

0:43:42.800 --> 0:43:46.120
<v Speaker 1>We're going. We're leaving now, come on, Janice, I'm going

0:43:46.160 --> 0:43:50.000
<v Speaker 1>with or without you. Janice is like, what a bummer? Uh?

0:43:50.040 --> 0:43:54.080
<v Speaker 1>And then they're together also for a very practical reason. Um,

0:43:54.120 --> 0:43:56.760
<v Speaker 1>they help each other out. They babysit for one another

0:43:57.520 --> 0:44:02.759
<v Speaker 1>God's sake. M h. I love that they babysit for

0:44:02.800 --> 0:44:06.520
<v Speaker 1>each other, Josh. I know they like the mom can

0:44:06.560 --> 0:44:09.440
<v Speaker 1>go off and forage for food for pup and know

0:44:09.640 --> 0:44:11.960
<v Speaker 1>that the pup is being watched by some of her

0:44:12.000 --> 0:44:16.399
<v Speaker 1>herd members. Her family members is what they're called. That's right.

0:44:16.880 --> 0:44:21.520
<v Speaker 1>If a matriarch dies, Um, there's a little short time

0:44:21.560 --> 0:44:24.239
<v Speaker 1>where they're like, all right, who's who's who's next? Who's

0:44:24.239 --> 0:44:28.960
<v Speaker 1>gonna step up? They have ranked choice voting. That's how

0:44:29.040 --> 0:44:31.799
<v Speaker 1>advanced they are. They're more advanced than every state in

0:44:31.800 --> 0:44:37.239
<v Speaker 1>the Union besides main Um. A lot of times, like

0:44:37.280 --> 0:44:40.239
<v Speaker 1>we said, it's the oldest remaining female, like she would

0:44:40.239 --> 0:44:42.840
<v Speaker 1>be next up, but sometimes it is not. Sometimes it

0:44:42.920 --> 0:44:46.280
<v Speaker 1>is the matriarch's daughter. Um, and she will just assume

0:44:46.440 --> 0:44:50.719
<v Speaker 1>the position of mom of her mother as matriarch. Yeah,

0:44:50.920 --> 0:44:54.400
<v Speaker 1>kind of like she like, um, oh, what is that

0:44:54.440 --> 0:45:00.400
<v Speaker 1>called where where you like become king or queen because

0:45:00.440 --> 0:45:04.239
<v Speaker 1>your father and mother was king or queen. I can't

0:45:04.280 --> 0:45:09.200
<v Speaker 1>remember what it's called. But yeah, basically, uh, that that

0:45:09.200 --> 0:45:12.880
<v Speaker 1>that can that exists in the elephant society, if that

0:45:12.880 --> 0:45:16.560
<v Speaker 1>that elephant happens to be like suited for the job

0:45:16.960 --> 0:45:19.280
<v Speaker 1>and if there's an issue, if there's a dispute, whereas

0:45:19.360 --> 0:45:22.000
<v Speaker 1>some elephants are like, actually, I don't think she's ready yet.

0:45:22.040 --> 0:45:25.480
<v Speaker 1>I'm not gonna follow her. I'm gonna follow Janie, and

0:45:25.560 --> 0:45:28.839
<v Speaker 1>Janis will be like far out. That's it. Like the

0:45:28.920 --> 0:45:31.839
<v Speaker 1>Janis and the other elephants that want to follow her,

0:45:31.880 --> 0:45:34.680
<v Speaker 1>they go off on their own family. There's no battle,

0:45:34.680 --> 0:45:37.680
<v Speaker 1>there's no there's no fight to the death over dominance.

0:45:37.680 --> 0:45:39.879
<v Speaker 1>It's just like all right, we'll see later. And then

0:45:40.000 --> 0:45:42.560
<v Speaker 1>they may see each other later at that clearing or

0:45:42.719 --> 0:45:46.080
<v Speaker 1>at that watering hole and be just happy as pie

0:45:46.160 --> 0:45:49.760
<v Speaker 1>to see one another. And they may also even travel together,

0:45:49.840 --> 0:45:53.200
<v Speaker 1>but just at a much greater distance, but within communicating

0:45:53.239 --> 0:45:56.120
<v Speaker 1>distance to like warn one another and kind of basically

0:45:56.200 --> 0:45:58.799
<v Speaker 1>keep up the same pace, but they just keep their

0:45:58.800 --> 0:46:03.360
<v Speaker 1>distance more. Yeah. They they'll growl at one another. They'll trumpet, um,

0:46:03.400 --> 0:46:06.640
<v Speaker 1>they'll grunt, they will uh, they will stomp their feet,

0:46:07.400 --> 0:46:11.080
<v Speaker 1>they will flick their ears, that will use their trunks. Um,

0:46:11.120 --> 0:46:14.840
<v Speaker 1>they will angle their heads and tusks and switch their tails.

0:46:14.840 --> 0:46:18.120
<v Speaker 1>These are all communications. Uh. And while they are stomping,

0:46:18.200 --> 0:46:19.920
<v Speaker 1>and while they do have those big, sturdy feet, they're

0:46:19.920 --> 0:46:22.919
<v Speaker 1>also really sensitive. So if an elephant is just standing still,

0:46:22.960 --> 0:46:26.680
<v Speaker 1>it can feel the vibrations in the ground of something

0:46:26.920 --> 0:46:29.719
<v Speaker 1>far away or someone calling them from far away, through

0:46:30.160 --> 0:46:32.960
<v Speaker 1>through the ground through their feet, like the rumbling through

0:46:32.960 --> 0:46:37.160
<v Speaker 1>the ground of an elephant growling like miles away. Yeah,

0:46:37.680 --> 0:46:40.520
<v Speaker 1>and they also that trunk. I forgot to mention. It's

0:46:40.680 --> 0:46:44.520
<v Speaker 1>they have a really sensitive sense of smell. Supposedly they

0:46:44.520 --> 0:46:47.880
<v Speaker 1>can smell water up to twelve miles away, and that

0:46:48.000 --> 0:46:51.440
<v Speaker 1>they've water has no smell, right, They've been shown to

0:46:51.480 --> 0:46:56.840
<v Speaker 1>smell storms up to like a hundred and fifty miles away. Yeah, amazing,

0:46:57.000 --> 0:46:59.560
<v Speaker 1>pretty amazing. I don't know if we've gotten this across

0:46:59.680 --> 0:47:02.359
<v Speaker 1>or not, but elephants are pretty amazing. We do that

0:47:02.360 --> 0:47:05.080
<v Speaker 1>with all our animal podcasts. I know, I love it.

0:47:05.400 --> 0:47:07.319
<v Speaker 1>Should do one about like, I don't know, what's a

0:47:07.320 --> 0:47:12.000
<v Speaker 1>boring animal that's not so impressive. Let's see, let's see

0:47:12.520 --> 0:47:14.799
<v Speaker 1>they're all great. Yeah, I really can't think of a

0:47:14.840 --> 0:47:20.040
<v Speaker 1>boring animal. Like, there's something fascinating about every animal. Yeah,

0:47:20.200 --> 0:47:21.840
<v Speaker 1>I was gonna say frogs, but I was like, oh, no,

0:47:21.920 --> 0:47:25.440
<v Speaker 1>frogs turned out to be pretty fascinating. Frogs are the best. No,

0:47:25.600 --> 0:47:29.719
<v Speaker 1>elephants are the best. Uh. There's this one researcher that

0:47:30.000 --> 0:47:34.120
<v Speaker 1>um firmly believes that elephants have a sense of humor. Uh.

0:47:34.160 --> 0:47:37.000
<v Speaker 1>And she said she was recalling how they play and

0:47:37.040 --> 0:47:40.640
<v Speaker 1>they would charge her car and she thought they were

0:47:40.640 --> 0:47:45.560
<v Speaker 1>tripping and falling and tusk the ground and they kept

0:47:45.600 --> 0:47:48.520
<v Speaker 1>doing it and she was like, no, I know what

0:47:48.560 --> 0:47:53.080
<v Speaker 1>they're doing. Now. They're they're pratt falling. They're pretending to

0:47:53.160 --> 0:47:56.719
<v Speaker 1>fall in front of the car and having a good

0:47:56.760 --> 0:47:59.520
<v Speaker 1>time doing it. Yeah, like they pretended they were charging

0:47:59.560 --> 0:48:02.560
<v Speaker 1>her car. Are in the sanctuary, and like within they

0:48:02.680 --> 0:48:05.320
<v Speaker 1>tripped right before it. And it happened enough times that

0:48:05.400 --> 0:48:12.279
<v Speaker 1>she realized that they were they were joking. Yeah, it's amazing. Uh.

0:48:12.440 --> 0:48:15.440
<v Speaker 1>What else, Well, this is you know the saddest thing

0:48:15.480 --> 0:48:18.719
<v Speaker 1>because everyone knows that elephants mourn. We've all seen the

0:48:18.800 --> 0:48:21.200
<v Speaker 1>videos and it is true. And I think in our

0:48:21.239 --> 0:48:24.320
<v Speaker 1>grief episode, I told the story of Domini, the elephant

0:48:24.360 --> 0:48:28.839
<v Speaker 1>who basically died of a broken heart from grief. Don't

0:48:28.920 --> 0:48:35.080
<v Speaker 1>retell that story, but um, they very famously grieve. Um.

0:48:35.120 --> 0:48:39.280
<v Speaker 1>There will be extended morning periods for groups of elephants.

0:48:39.800 --> 0:48:44.280
<v Speaker 1>There are grieving rituals over corpses. Uh. And they also

0:48:44.320 --> 0:48:47.879
<v Speaker 1>suffer PTSD if they witness violence. So if they see

0:48:47.880 --> 0:48:52.120
<v Speaker 1>a poacher kill and d tuscan elephant, they will have

0:48:52.719 --> 0:48:56.440
<v Speaker 1>literal PTSD and stress syntones. So one thing I saw

0:48:56.600 --> 0:49:01.200
<v Speaker 1>it was like that PTSD is that it's tough to

0:49:01.280 --> 0:49:05.799
<v Speaker 1>compare it to human PTST, but that there are like

0:49:06.080 --> 0:49:11.440
<v Speaker 1>real pronounced effects on them UM usually related to stress,

0:49:11.560 --> 0:49:15.560
<v Speaker 1>but also apparently related to not having been brought up

0:49:16.120 --> 0:49:19.640
<v Speaker 1>in their society, so that when they when they like

0:49:19.760 --> 0:49:23.120
<v Speaker 1>wouldn't say like an orphan that survives a culling and

0:49:23.280 --> 0:49:27.640
<v Speaker 1>is raised like outside of elephant society. It's just not

0:49:27.960 --> 0:49:30.960
<v Speaker 1>quite right when you compare it to an elephant that

0:49:31.040 --> 0:49:35.760
<v Speaker 1>was raised by elephants, you know, throughout its to maturity

0:49:36.040 --> 0:49:38.680
<v Speaker 1>and that they frequently call it things like PTSD or

0:49:38.719 --> 0:49:41.640
<v Speaker 1>things like that, but it's like it's almost its own thing.

0:49:42.320 --> 0:49:45.760
<v Speaker 1>But again, if you did that to a deer or

0:49:45.800 --> 0:49:49.120
<v Speaker 1>a bird or something, it's not going to have that

0:49:49.239 --> 0:49:52.799
<v Speaker 1>same effect. It's it's not I hate to say it,

0:49:52.800 --> 0:49:55.720
<v Speaker 1>but it doesn't appear to be smart enough to suffer

0:49:56.440 --> 0:50:02.640
<v Speaker 1>psychological damage from a traumatic experience. Yeah, I mean, don't

0:50:02.680 --> 0:50:05.960
<v Speaker 1>feel sorry for the deer. He was probably quite glad.

0:50:06.320 --> 0:50:08.839
<v Speaker 1>You should still feel sorry for the deer for what

0:50:08.880 --> 0:50:11.560
<v Speaker 1>we do to deer. No, well, yeah, that's a whole

0:50:11.560 --> 0:50:14.680
<v Speaker 1>another that's whole other story. I bought these little things

0:50:14.680 --> 0:50:16.520
<v Speaker 1>that go on the front of my car that's supposedly

0:50:17.360 --> 0:50:19.160
<v Speaker 1>keep deer away, but I don't know if they work.

0:50:19.360 --> 0:50:21.759
<v Speaker 1>I've seen him the giant hands that clap and saying,

0:50:21.840 --> 0:50:24.719
<v Speaker 1>oh the wait, dear. I don't even know how this

0:50:24.760 --> 0:50:27.319
<v Speaker 1>thing works, and it very well may not work at all.

0:50:28.000 --> 0:50:29.839
<v Speaker 1>But the way I put it to Emily, I was like,

0:50:30.080 --> 0:50:33.440
<v Speaker 1>unless these actually attract deer, then it's worth like the

0:50:33.480 --> 0:50:36.720
<v Speaker 1>five dollars that it costs. Just just give it a shot.

0:50:37.320 --> 0:50:41.640
<v Speaker 1>Do you remember those those hats um that like had

0:50:41.680 --> 0:50:45.520
<v Speaker 1>a cord it would clap, do you remember that. Sure,

0:50:45.960 --> 0:50:48.680
<v Speaker 1>my dad had one of those? Did he really? Oh? Man,

0:50:49.040 --> 0:50:51.400
<v Speaker 1>did he ever have the hat with the two uh,

0:50:51.560 --> 0:50:54.080
<v Speaker 1>the beers on both sides. He wasn't quite cool enough

0:50:54.120 --> 0:50:55.680
<v Speaker 1>for that one, but he was cool enough for the

0:50:55.680 --> 0:50:59.040
<v Speaker 1>clapping hat. Okay, I think that's the opposite of cool.

0:50:59.160 --> 0:51:03.480
<v Speaker 1>Actually think so too the herbal Elvius. So we we

0:51:03.560 --> 0:51:07.520
<v Speaker 1>mentioned before about um how to interact with elephants, and

0:51:08.760 --> 0:51:11.640
<v Speaker 1>the only way that we found to interact with elephants

0:51:11.680 --> 0:51:14.880
<v Speaker 1>ethically is if you go on an ethical safari and

0:51:14.960 --> 0:51:19.879
<v Speaker 1>observe them from afar through your binoculars or you know there,

0:51:20.520 --> 0:51:22.280
<v Speaker 1>if you're in the car and you can see them. Great.

0:51:22.800 --> 0:51:27.040
<v Speaker 1>But if you see something that's advertised as an elephant sanctuary,

0:51:27.320 --> 0:51:32.040
<v Speaker 1>say something, yeah, I mean sanctuary. There's no law that

0:51:32.520 --> 0:51:35.600
<v Speaker 1>dictates when you can use that word. And when travelers

0:51:35.640 --> 0:51:38.560
<v Speaker 1>hear that word, they think, oh, well, this means this

0:51:38.680 --> 0:51:43.920
<v Speaker 1>is where elephants go to be taken care of because

0:51:43.960 --> 0:51:46.839
<v Speaker 1>it's a sanctuary. I see it's right there on the sign, right.

0:51:46.960 --> 0:51:49.400
<v Speaker 1>It's not necessarily what that means. That elephant that you

0:51:49.520 --> 0:51:52.520
<v Speaker 1>ride or bathe in the pool with may have been

0:51:53.320 --> 0:51:56.000
<v Speaker 1>had its spirit crushed by being kept in that tiny

0:51:56.000 --> 0:51:58.680
<v Speaker 1>pin and starved and beaten for weeks at a time.

0:51:59.440 --> 0:52:02.960
<v Speaker 1>This found or of the UK group called Action for

0:52:03.040 --> 0:52:09.920
<v Speaker 1>Elephants UK, Maria Mossman. She basically says, any any place

0:52:10.000 --> 0:52:15.040
<v Speaker 1>that advertises unnatural behavior just stay away from because they're

0:52:15.040 --> 0:52:19.120
<v Speaker 1>not like elephants shouldn't be doing tricks for humans. And

0:52:19.200 --> 0:52:22.640
<v Speaker 1>that includes like bathing with the elephants, which does sound awesome,

0:52:22.640 --> 0:52:25.440
<v Speaker 1>and elephants do bathe and they love to swim and frolic.

0:52:25.880 --> 0:52:29.120
<v Speaker 1>But the big problem with that is that in a

0:52:29.160 --> 0:52:31.799
<v Speaker 1>sanctuary where that's how you get the people to come,

0:52:32.600 --> 0:52:34.120
<v Speaker 1>that means you have to keep the elephant in the

0:52:34.160 --> 0:52:37.680
<v Speaker 1>water all day and let people climb all over it

0:52:37.760 --> 0:52:42.120
<v Speaker 1>all day. That's just genuinely unnatural. It's unnatural for human

0:52:42.200 --> 0:52:45.719
<v Speaker 1>to ride an elephant like you just there. It's really

0:52:45.760 --> 0:52:48.680
<v Speaker 1>easy to step back once you think in the broad

0:52:48.840 --> 0:52:52.600
<v Speaker 1>term of unnatural behavior, all of this, all of the

0:52:53.000 --> 0:52:57.560
<v Speaker 1>starts to to become quite clear. You know what you

0:52:57.600 --> 0:53:00.400
<v Speaker 1>should and shouldn't do with an elephant, or you know,

0:53:00.880 --> 0:53:04.319
<v Speaker 1>participate in with an elephant, and instead just let it

0:53:04.400 --> 0:53:06.880
<v Speaker 1>do its elephant thing and observe it from afar and

0:53:06.920 --> 0:53:09.600
<v Speaker 1>appreciate it from afar Yeah. I saw a video the

0:53:09.640 --> 0:53:11.440
<v Speaker 1>other day though, of a black lab that was best

0:53:11.480 --> 0:53:14.440
<v Speaker 1>friends with an elephant. I didn't see that one, and

0:53:14.600 --> 0:53:16.200
<v Speaker 1>I just I don't I don't know the background of

0:53:16.239 --> 0:53:19.200
<v Speaker 1>this elephant. But this black lab was climbing all over

0:53:19.239 --> 0:53:22.000
<v Speaker 1>it and jumping off in the water, and they they

0:53:22.000 --> 0:53:24.560
<v Speaker 1>look like they were having a good time. It's unnatural

0:53:25.400 --> 0:53:28.560
<v Speaker 1>that dog should be punished for doing it. It wasn't natural,

0:53:28.600 --> 0:53:32.120
<v Speaker 1>but it wasn't a human. It was a dog. Um

0:53:32.440 --> 0:53:35.759
<v Speaker 1>Labs they're great. They're they're pretty great too. Uh, as

0:53:35.800 --> 0:53:41.560
<v Speaker 1>far as there um their threats, obviously, all three species

0:53:41.560 --> 0:53:44.640
<v Speaker 1>are in decline. It's super sad. Their range, which is

0:53:45.640 --> 0:53:49.000
<v Speaker 1>um a great range like you're talking about, has been

0:53:49.840 --> 0:53:55.080
<v Speaker 1>encumbered upon by humans for centuries and thousands of years.

0:53:55.160 --> 0:53:58.960
<v Speaker 1>Even there, Uh, they just don't have as much room

0:53:59.000 --> 0:54:03.000
<v Speaker 1>thanks to people and deforestation and fences and roads and

0:54:03.000 --> 0:54:06.920
<v Speaker 1>oil pipelines and things. And then there's the poaching problem

0:54:07.120 --> 0:54:10.280
<v Speaker 1>of killing elephants for their tusks and now their skin.

0:54:10.960 --> 0:54:14.600
<v Speaker 1>That's a new thing. It's just horrific to think about. Yeah,

0:54:14.920 --> 0:54:18.239
<v Speaker 1>brand new as of like two thousand thirteen, some I

0:54:18.280 --> 0:54:21.600
<v Speaker 1>believe a Chinese entrepreneur said, hey, you know it would

0:54:21.600 --> 0:54:24.800
<v Speaker 1>be cool as if I started a trend for beads

0:54:25.120 --> 0:54:28.120
<v Speaker 1>jewelry made out of elephants skin. Let me do that.

0:54:28.280 --> 0:54:31.200
<v Speaker 1>And now all of a sudden, the number of elephants

0:54:31.239 --> 0:54:35.360
<v Speaker 1>that are killed for their skin jumped in Burma, just

0:54:35.480 --> 0:54:38.880
<v Speaker 1>over the border from China, from ten a year in

0:54:38.880 --> 0:54:42.480
<v Speaker 1>two thousand twelve to sixty one in two thousand and sixteen.

0:54:43.440 --> 0:54:45.560
<v Speaker 1>And they'd already their skin had already been used in

0:54:45.600 --> 0:54:50.600
<v Speaker 1>traditional Chinese medicine to cure gastritis and ulcers and regrows

0:54:50.600 --> 0:54:54.359
<v Speaker 1>skin allegedly, um, which accounts for that ten and two

0:54:54.400 --> 0:54:57.720
<v Speaker 1>thousand twelve. But apparently the jewelry really caused this jump

0:54:58.520 --> 0:55:01.440
<v Speaker 1>over the last few years. Yeah, China looks like they

0:55:01.480 --> 0:55:04.880
<v Speaker 1>have granted licenses to import at least thirty five elephants

0:55:04.880 --> 0:55:08.600
<v Speaker 1>for skinning over the last couple of years. So that's

0:55:08.600 --> 0:55:11.640
<v Speaker 1>just awful. It really is a great way to end

0:55:11.640 --> 0:55:15.400
<v Speaker 1>the show. Yeah, and there's I mean, they're not endangered

0:55:15.480 --> 0:55:18.360
<v Speaker 1>from what I understand. I think they're listed as vulnerable

0:55:18.400 --> 0:55:22.400
<v Speaker 1>by the World Wildlife Foundation, but they um, their numbers

0:55:22.440 --> 0:55:26.640
<v Speaker 1>have gone down dramatically. In nineteen thirty there were ten

0:55:26.719 --> 0:55:30.600
<v Speaker 1>million wild elephants in Africa, there's four hundred and fifteen

0:55:30.640 --> 0:55:34.960
<v Speaker 1>thousand today then and just in a decade, I believe

0:55:35.640 --> 0:55:39.440
<v Speaker 1>in the two thousands, they dropped by a hundred and

0:55:39.480 --> 0:55:43.920
<v Speaker 1>eleven thousand in just one decade. Um. And in some places,

0:55:43.960 --> 0:55:48.000
<v Speaker 1>I mean most of it's poaching. Um, some countries still

0:55:48.040 --> 0:55:54.080
<v Speaker 1>have like it's legal to trade in ivory um South Africa, Zimbabwe, Botswana,

0:55:54.160 --> 0:55:57.759
<v Speaker 1>Namibia and as wat teeny which you may know and

0:55:57.840 --> 0:56:02.319
<v Speaker 1>love Formuly Swaziland. It's legal to trade in elephant ivory

0:56:02.360 --> 0:56:05.840
<v Speaker 1>in the US, the UK, Japan, and Thailand. It's legal

0:56:05.880 --> 0:56:10.160
<v Speaker 1>to trade an antique elephant ivory um that was you know,

0:56:10.280 --> 0:56:14.279
<v Speaker 1>brought into market before they start they enacted laws against it.

0:56:14.680 --> 0:56:18.279
<v Speaker 1>But um, that's that's pretty much the biggest threat. And

0:56:18.320 --> 0:56:21.600
<v Speaker 1>then also, like you said, their habitat encroachment, Like if

0:56:21.640 --> 0:56:25.960
<v Speaker 1>you build a pipeline, the elephants just don't step over pipelines.

0:56:26.440 --> 0:56:29.120
<v Speaker 1>They're like, oh, okay, well, our our range just got

0:56:29.120 --> 0:56:32.080
<v Speaker 1>cut in half. And again their range is enormous, like

0:56:32.120 --> 0:56:36.200
<v Speaker 1>an African bush elephant, their home range is like to

0:56:36.480 --> 0:56:40.920
<v Speaker 1>almost three million acres. They'll walk hundreds of acres in

0:56:40.920 --> 0:56:43.680
<v Speaker 1>a single day. So I mean even keeping one in

0:56:43.719 --> 0:56:45.960
<v Speaker 1>the zoo. Even if you're keeping it alive, Even if

0:56:46.000 --> 0:56:48.000
<v Speaker 1>you keep it alive for a while, like you're really

0:56:48.120 --> 0:56:52.400
<v Speaker 1>robbing it of its experience. Even in a large sanctuary,

0:56:52.400 --> 0:56:54.839
<v Speaker 1>you're still robbing it of a lot of its experience too.

0:56:54.880 --> 0:56:58.520
<v Speaker 1>It's basically like we we we need to preserve and

0:56:58.560 --> 0:57:01.719
<v Speaker 1>sustain their home ranges. It's really the best way to

0:57:01.719 --> 0:57:05.200
<v Speaker 1>to to keep them around. It's like the whale shark.

0:57:05.320 --> 0:57:07.440
<v Speaker 1>It's like you're used to the ocean. How about this

0:57:07.640 --> 0:57:11.640
<v Speaker 1>large pool exactly. We've got a real problem with that.

0:57:11.640 --> 0:57:13.919
<v Speaker 1>That's another episode we did our zoos Good or Bad

0:57:13.960 --> 0:57:16.400
<v Speaker 1>for animals? Yeah, man, that was That was a good one.

0:57:16.680 --> 0:57:20.320
<v Speaker 1>I got one last thing which got so you remember

0:57:20.400 --> 0:57:22.520
<v Speaker 1>that that thing that went around It was like on

0:57:22.560 --> 0:57:26.120
<v Speaker 1>Twitter for a while it was, um, elephants, sea humans

0:57:26.920 --> 0:57:29.800
<v Speaker 1>and think we're cute the way that we see puppies

0:57:29.840 --> 0:57:32.120
<v Speaker 1>and think they're cute. No, I don't remember that. Oh

0:57:32.200 --> 0:57:37.760
<v Speaker 1>it was huge, massive, totally made up. All right, Well

0:57:37.760 --> 0:57:41.800
<v Speaker 1>I'm glad I didn't see it. Yeah, Okay, well I

0:57:41.800 --> 0:57:46.560
<v Speaker 1>guess that's it. Thanks for bursting that bubble. I couldn't

0:57:46.600 --> 0:57:50.200
<v Speaker 1>just let that stay in No, of course not. Um. So, yeah,

0:57:50.240 --> 0:57:53.640
<v Speaker 1>there's a good Snopes article about that that's worth checking out. Um,

0:57:54.000 --> 0:57:57.080
<v Speaker 1>but that doesn't mean that they don't actually think we're cute.

0:57:57.280 --> 0:58:00.680
<v Speaker 1>It's just never been proven. How about that If you

0:58:00.680 --> 0:58:03.560
<v Speaker 1>want to know more about elephants, go learn more about elephants.

0:58:03.600 --> 0:58:05.800
<v Speaker 1>Are definitely worse things you could do with your time.

0:58:05.840 --> 0:58:10.800
<v Speaker 1>And since I said that it's listener mail time, I'm

0:58:10.840 --> 0:58:12.760
<v Speaker 1>gonna call this a bit of a Maya Kalpa. On

0:58:12.800 --> 0:58:17.800
<v Speaker 1>our Central Park episode, when we spoke about Robert Moses. UM,

0:58:17.840 --> 0:58:20.720
<v Speaker 1>I don't remember like saying this guy was the best

0:58:20.760 --> 0:58:23.680
<v Speaker 1>thing ever or anything, but there was a darker history

0:58:23.680 --> 0:58:25.640
<v Speaker 1>there that I we did not know about, and we'd

0:58:25.640 --> 0:58:28.520
<v Speaker 1>like to correct that. Yes, we heard from a few people.

0:58:28.600 --> 0:58:31.320
<v Speaker 1>He said, Uh, and this is from Joe Kennedy. He said,

0:58:31.320 --> 0:58:33.959
<v Speaker 1>if you do some deeper research on Robert Moses will

0:58:33.960 --> 0:58:36.240
<v Speaker 1>discovered the troubling and true effect he had and continues

0:58:36.280 --> 0:58:39.280
<v Speaker 1>to have on the racial and socio economic segregation and

0:58:39.320 --> 0:58:41.800
<v Speaker 1>trenched in our cities. I won't fled your email with

0:58:41.800 --> 0:58:44.400
<v Speaker 1>a book length argument, but many books and papers have

0:58:44.400 --> 0:58:46.400
<v Speaker 1>been written on the topic, many of them mentioning Robert

0:58:46.400 --> 0:58:50.200
<v Speaker 1>Moses specifically. UM, I would ask that you take a

0:58:50.200 --> 0:58:53.919
<v Speaker 1>deeper dive into this particular character. Uh, if nothing else,

0:58:53.960 --> 0:58:55.960
<v Speaker 1>and for your own opinions and views of his effect

0:58:56.240 --> 0:58:59.320
<v Speaker 1>on our country and racial tensions that persist throughout I've

0:58:59.320 --> 0:59:01.760
<v Speaker 1>never written to a podcast or radio show or website

0:59:01.760 --> 0:59:03.840
<v Speaker 1>of any kind, really, but I thought this is important

0:59:03.840 --> 0:59:06.080
<v Speaker 1>to point out because it's all too common that people

0:59:06.120 --> 0:59:09.200
<v Speaker 1>who have committed heinously racist and hateful ax in this

0:59:09.360 --> 0:59:12.040
<v Speaker 1>history of our country are excused on the basis of

0:59:12.040 --> 0:59:15.160
<v Speaker 1>being a product of their times, we're having done good elsewhere,

0:59:15.680 --> 0:59:20.000
<v Speaker 1>or whatever other excuses propped up to protect their character. Uh.

0:59:20.040 --> 0:59:21.920
<v Speaker 1>And listen, guys, I have listened to enough of your

0:59:21.920 --> 0:59:24.240
<v Speaker 1>shows to know that you were smart guys with broad,

0:59:24.360 --> 0:59:27.080
<v Speaker 1>educated worldviews. It seemed like you were morally good people.

0:59:27.120 --> 0:59:29.920
<v Speaker 1>So I'm not suggesting anything other than a little more

0:59:29.960 --> 0:59:33.280
<v Speaker 1>research on this specific character. Uh, just so you know

0:59:33.320 --> 0:59:36.440
<v Speaker 1>for yourselves. Thanks for the show, guys, and your endless

0:59:36.480 --> 0:59:40.080
<v Speaker 1>hours of entertainment and education. I truly enjoyed them. That

0:59:40.160 --> 0:59:42.760
<v Speaker 1>is Joe Kennedy, And we heard from other people, but uh,

0:59:42.960 --> 0:59:46.080
<v Speaker 1>we appreciate you bringing that to light fort sure. Yeah, thanks, Joe,

0:59:46.120 --> 0:59:49.000
<v Speaker 1>appreciate and everybody who wrote in to say, uh, he's

0:59:49.000 --> 0:59:53.480
<v Speaker 1>actually a villain. Yeah, yeah, we just I And actually

0:59:53.520 --> 0:59:56.640
<v Speaker 1>i'd heard about him before separately. I didn't connect the

0:59:56.640 --> 0:59:59.040
<v Speaker 1>two and realize that that was the same guy. Yeah,

0:59:59.240 --> 1:00:04.000
<v Speaker 1>we dropped the ball, Chuck. We'll try and do better everybody. Okay, uh, well,

1:00:04.040 --> 1:00:05.560
<v Speaker 1>if you want to get in touch with us to

1:00:05.600 --> 1:00:07.800
<v Speaker 1>tell us how we can do better, we always love

1:00:07.880 --> 1:00:10.640
<v Speaker 1>to improve, So do that. Do it nicely, but do it.

1:00:11.280 --> 1:00:13.520
<v Speaker 1>You can go to onto our website Stuff you Should

1:00:13.560 --> 1:00:16.439
<v Speaker 1>Know dot com and check out our social links there.

1:00:16.560 --> 1:00:19.120
<v Speaker 1>I have a website called the Josh Clark Way dot com.

1:00:19.200 --> 1:00:21.200
<v Speaker 1>Check that out too, and you can send us an

1:00:21.200 --> 1:00:29.800
<v Speaker 1>email to Stuff Podcast at how stuff Works dot com

1:00:29.800 --> 1:00:32.240
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1:00:32.280 --> 1:00:44.000
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