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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know from how Stuff Works

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Speaker 1: dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark,

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Speaker 1: There's Charles w Chuck, Bryan Jerry. We're just feeling wacky

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Speaker 1: or here. You want to know why? Why? Because this

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Speaker 1: is the stuff you should know about. Maybe the greatest

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Speaker 1: animal walking the planet. And I'm including human beings elephants.

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Speaker 1: I'm big on elephants. YEA love elephants. Might be emily

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Speaker 1: spirit animals. She hasn't decided yet. Yeah, I can say,

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Speaker 1: is really Oh yeah, wow, they have the same spirit

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Speaker 1: animal that's gonna eat. Yeah, I know. I like that.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know that. I didn't know you mean was

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Speaker 1: an elephant or she is big time into elephant elephantist.

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Speaker 1: M Um, all right, Charles, are you ready for this? Yes?

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Speaker 1: And really quickly. Because we love elephants. We want to

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Speaker 1: go on a safari one day. You know I've mentioned before,

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Speaker 1: but now I know and we'll get to this later.

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Speaker 1: I was like, man, I want to I want to

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Speaker 1: swim with those things. Don't do it, No, I shouldn't

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Speaker 1: do it. Don't write them, Nope, don't do any of

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Speaker 1: those things where you see people on Facebook bragging about

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Speaker 1: writing and getting bade by elephants. Don't do it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's true, Like that's not ethical or humane because we'll

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Speaker 1: just say it now. The reason why is because too,

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Speaker 1: elephants are wild animals. They're not domesticated. Although they display

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Speaker 1: some really bizarre affectionate behavior towards humans there that can

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Speaker 1: make you think they are domesticated, there's still wild animals.

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Speaker 1: So to train them to basically ensure that they're not

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Speaker 1: ever going to you know, stomp a person or something

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Speaker 1: like that, you have to take them as as babies

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Speaker 1: and what's called crushing their spirit and just basically scare

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Speaker 1: them so bad or beat them physically, right, that's part

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Speaker 1: of the process of crushing their spirit. Like yeah, beat them,

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Speaker 1: the rate them, starve them, tie their legs together, keep

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Speaker 1: them in a pen all to basically teach them that

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Speaker 1: humans are in charge and that they should be scared

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Speaker 1: to death of of doing anything untoward toward a human.

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Speaker 1: That's how you can write an elephant, or how you

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Speaker 1: can bathe with an elephant or um, you me wanted

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Speaker 1: a painting by an elephant, Like, there's elephants that make paintings.

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Speaker 1: There's one here in Atlanta, okay, that makes paintings. So

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Speaker 1: we researched it right before we were about to order,

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Speaker 1: and she's like, wait a minute, let me just see

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Speaker 1: if this is okay. And it turns out that they

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Speaker 1: basically use the same techniques. To to make an elephant

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Speaker 1: do what human wants it to, you have to be

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Speaker 1: very cruel to them usually, So there you go. People

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Speaker 1: don't do it. Yeah, it was a weird intro. It

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Speaker 1: was in my crawl. Uh, obviously it was in yours

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Speaker 1: a little bit. But let's talk about elephants, the good stuff.

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Speaker 1: There are three species. You probably grew up thinking like

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Speaker 1: I did, that there's the African elephant and the Asian elephant.

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Speaker 1: Sure that everybody knows that. But now they have broken

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Speaker 1: down the African element element the elephant into two camps,

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Speaker 1: the bush elephant and the forest elephant, both African and

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Speaker 1: like I said, for many many years, and you will

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Speaker 1: still see in a lot of places, um just two species.

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Speaker 1: But that is that is not true anymore. No one

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Speaker 1: to three um so, and the bush elephant and the

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Speaker 1: forest elephant are so closely related that if they if

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Speaker 1: they run up against one another because some of their

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Speaker 1: their habitats kind of overlap, they could reproduce and have babies,

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Speaker 1: which no problem whatsoever. But the Asian elephant is so

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Speaker 1: distantly related to them, even though they seem, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's just another kind of elephant, it's an elephant that

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Speaker 1: they probably they could receivably have a kid. And actually

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Speaker 1: one was born in a zoo in the seventies, but

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Speaker 1: he died after like I think twelve days of an infection.

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Speaker 1: UM that they probably aren't really supposed to aren't supposed

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Speaker 1: to breed, I guess, is how you'd put it, right,

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Speaker 1: have offspring. Yeah, so, uh, we're gonna be talking about

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Speaker 1: all three, um not interchangeably. We'll we'll point out when

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Speaker 1: we're talking about what but the African bush elephant, those

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Speaker 1: are the biggest ones. They have the biggest ears um

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Speaker 1: or at least larger than the Asian elephants, and both

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Speaker 1: sexes for the African bush elephants are more likely to

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Speaker 1: have tusks. UM. Some male Asian elephants have tusks, but

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Speaker 1: they're not as prominent. That's where you see the smaller tusks.

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Speaker 1: And then all three species have five toes on the

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Speaker 1: front feet, but the African bush elephant has three toes

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Speaker 1: on the rear. Asian l elephants have four toes on

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Speaker 1: the rear on each foot. There's a lot of different

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Speaker 1: toes going on, a lot of different toes uh. And

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Speaker 1: the African forest elephant is generally about the same shape

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Speaker 1: as his bush bush friend, but they have straighter tusks

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Speaker 1: because they're going It makes sense they're going through the

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Speaker 1: forest so their tests don't stick way out and get

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Speaker 1: caught on every other tree that they're walking by. Yes,

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Speaker 1: And I thought this was really interesting. Um, the the

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Speaker 1: African um forest elephants are so elusive that like they

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Speaker 1: don't they have no idea how many there are, all

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Speaker 1: of the all the ideas about their behavior and the

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Speaker 1: stuff that they do is just assumptions made based on

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Speaker 1: the bush elephant that they're related to. They're that good

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Speaker 1: at like keeping away from humans. I just think that's amazing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And they have they're a little bit smaller um than

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Speaker 1: the uh than they're they're ends on the savannah, but

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Speaker 1: they have the same toe arrangement as the Asian elephant, right,

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Speaker 1: which is interesting. So the I I had never really

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Speaker 1: thought about it, but like, um, a lot of the elephants,

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Speaker 1: when I think of elephants. I never realized I was

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Speaker 1: thinking of two different species, but they really do. Like

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Speaker 1: the Asian elephant and the African bush elephant, they have

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Speaker 1: a lot of differences that you can just very quickly

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Speaker 1: see which is which kind Like the Asian elephant has

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Speaker 1: kind of like the rounded dome head, and they have

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Speaker 1: kind of a hump back um and they are a

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Speaker 1: little smaller. And then the African bush elephants they're very,

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Speaker 1: very big with the big old ears, and they have

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Speaker 1: basically what's called like a saddle back. It's kind of

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Speaker 1: flatish or maybe even concave a little bit too. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and here's here's one of the facts of the show

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Speaker 1: for me is there's like fifty and here, and there's

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Speaker 1: so many but elephants have. They have tuskness like we

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Speaker 1: have handedness. They use their right or their left tusk

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Speaker 1: more often than the other. And if you ever wonder

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Speaker 1: which tusk is the more dominant one, look and see

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Speaker 1: which one shorter, because that's the one that gets worn

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Speaker 1: down quicker. I thought that was amazing, pretty neat. I

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Speaker 1: just figured they were interchangeable. Yep, nope, yep nope. So

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Speaker 1: like it's really kind of I had to stop and

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Speaker 1: put myself into this like standing like imagine myself standing

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Speaker 1: next to these elephants for like measurements for the average Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're like, what six ft? Yeah just about I'm pretty good.

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Speaker 1: I'm like a human dollar bill, you know, a dollar

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Speaker 1: bills like a little about six inches. Same thing here,

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Speaker 1: I'm six ft. Okay, so just stand me next to something.

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Speaker 1: You'd be like, it's about six ft. Don't you know

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Speaker 1: about the dollar bill? Well? No, is that used as

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Speaker 1: a measuring device when you're short of ruler? Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: about six inches. What if you have no cash but

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Speaker 1: you do have a ruler, then you're can you spend

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Speaker 1: the ruler and a and a hat shop? You could

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Speaker 1: consuerably trade it. Remember that guy who traded he moved.

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Speaker 1: We went from a paper clip to like a house

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Speaker 1: trading up. Oh yeah, that guy. That guy could turn

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Speaker 1: a ruler into cash. He and soy Bombs share an

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Speaker 1: apartment now and uh an upstate New York bomb. All right,

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Speaker 1: so let's talk about the size of these ladies and

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Speaker 1: men because okay, so everybody, imagine me standing next to

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Speaker 1: an elephant, and you'll really drive all this home. Yes, right,

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Speaker 1: so An African forest elephant is Josh's height up to

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Speaker 1: about eight feet at the shoulder. Yeah, okay, yeah, you

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Speaker 1: don't measure from the top of the dome. Um. I

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Speaker 1: wonder why they do that with animals. That's always kind

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Speaker 1: of the case, right, because I think if the animals, like, well,

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Speaker 1: I want to seem taller, they could just lift their

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Speaker 1: head up very high, you know, or if they're trying

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Speaker 1: to keep a low profile, they keep their head down

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Speaker 1: so the shoulder it's tough to you know, like when

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Speaker 1: they're having their kindergarten class picture taken. Right. Uh, the

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Speaker 1: African bush elephant is taller. It's about eight to ten

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Speaker 1: feet at the shoulder. That's the biggest one. Yeah, four

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Speaker 1: to six tons, two to five tons on the forest.

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Speaker 1: African and then Asian is seven to nine ft about

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Speaker 1: three to five short tons. And we should say there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of variation in size here because I think

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Speaker 1: one of these experts said that the the outliers can

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Speaker 1: be as big as twenty taller or larger overall than

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Speaker 1: the average, which is huge variation. Yeah, there's I think

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Speaker 1: the record for an Asian elephant. And remember there, you know,

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Speaker 1: at the shoulders seven to nine ft. That's still pretty

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Speaker 1: pretty good size. But the record was eleven and a

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Speaker 1: quarter feet. And that's a big elephant. Like can you

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Speaker 1: imagine that's almost two of me. Yeah, like me standing

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Speaker 1: on my own shoulders, maybe squatted you own just a

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Speaker 1: little bit at the shoulder. That's how big that elephant was.

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Speaker 1: And when you when you're talking short tons, that's two

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Speaker 1: thousand pounds. So like an African bush elephant can get

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Speaker 1: on average up to twelve thousand pounds. That's a big

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Speaker 1: boy or a girl. Yeah, the boys are a little

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Speaker 1: bit bigger. Um, and they live a long long time.

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Speaker 1: Here's sort of some inspiring and sad facts. They can

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Speaker 1: live fifty seventy years. Uh. They've found and recorded at

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Speaker 1: least one elephant that lived to be eighty six that

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Speaker 1: has set the record, which is just amazing. But here's

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Speaker 1: the saddest thing. Um, if you are a zoo elephant,

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Speaker 1: you live maybe less than half as long. So I

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Speaker 1: have to say this. The RSPCA in West SUS six England,

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Speaker 1: UM has been there. Their numbers have been controversial before,

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Speaker 1: but in this two thousand and eight study they they

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Speaker 1: they took hundred African and Asian elephants that lived in

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Speaker 1: European zoos over the course of forty five years. And

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Speaker 1: this is what they came up with. So, I mean

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Speaker 1: even in the article that people weren't necessarily contesting this data.

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Speaker 1: But I think the way that they explained it was

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Speaker 1: that this was old data and so it gave you

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Speaker 1: a good idea of how long elephants lived in captivity,

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Speaker 1: you know, a few decades ago, back before they knew

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Speaker 1: more about keeping them in zoos. Yeah, and here's what

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Speaker 1: it says. It said, UM thirty six years and a

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Speaker 1: national park in Kenya, UM seventeen years in a zoo.

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Speaker 1: But it looks to me like, unless I'm reading this wrong,

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Speaker 1: that UM elephants that work in timber camps. You know,

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Speaker 1: they're very strong, so they are still using in timber

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Speaker 1: camps to haul wood uh in trees and things. They

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Speaker 1: actually live longer than zoo elephants. Yeah. So the timber

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Speaker 1: elephants of Burma, of Me and mar are very well

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Speaker 1: taken care of from what I understand, like they're they're

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Speaker 1: considered semi captive and for like the last hundred years

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Speaker 1: or so, UM, the people of Burma have you use

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Speaker 1: them to basically move huge trees right to pull them

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Speaker 1: out of the forest for like logging and stuff. But

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Speaker 1: they're really well cared for. There's like government veterinarians that

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Speaker 1: do health checks and each elephant has their own log

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Speaker 1: and from what I saw, which just seems mind blowing

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Speaker 1: to me, because there they're, you know, um, being held

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Speaker 1: captive in a way to work for humans. And so

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Speaker 1: just based on you know, our our track record of

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Speaker 1: using animals like that, I it's just weird to me

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Speaker 1: that they would be very well taken care of. But

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Speaker 1: supposedly they are. UM, and they're considered semi captive because

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Speaker 1: at night they're allowed to just kind of wander around

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Speaker 1: and go free in the forest and they interact with

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Speaker 1: wild Asian elephants and that's how they actually reproduce. Um,

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Speaker 1: they're they're not like there's no kind of reproductive oversight.

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Speaker 1: It's just go wild, you know. And UM, they apparently

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Speaker 1: live very long because they're very well taken care of.

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Speaker 1: And here is a little for you. When they get

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Speaker 1: pregnant in those working camps, they get maternity leave for

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Speaker 1: about a year. Yes, So a couple of more quick

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Speaker 1: facts and then we'll take a break. Um, little BB

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Speaker 1: Elephants are cared for by their mothers until they are

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Speaker 1: anywhere between thirteen and twenty years old. So it's almost like, well,

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Speaker 1: not quite, but it's almost like the human experience a

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Speaker 1: little bit. Yeah, you know somewhere in there. I doubt

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Speaker 1: if you're sitting your thirteen year old off, but if

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Speaker 1: you're a terrible parent, maybe let's say it's you know,

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Speaker 1: thirteen to twenty. Let's say that's eighteen years. It's about

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Speaker 1: like a high school age. Uh. And that's also when

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Speaker 1: they reach sexual maturity. It takes about twenty to twenty

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Speaker 1: two months of gestation, which is the longest longest gestational

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Speaker 1: period of any animal. I'm sorry, any mammal and a

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Speaker 1: little bb elephant ways between a hundred and fifty and

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Speaker 1: two fifty pounds. It's pretty cute. We take a break, Yes,

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Speaker 1: all right, more pounded facts right after this, Chuck. I

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Speaker 1: just think it's adorable that both of our wives got

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Speaker 1: us into elephants. We're gonna have to take us safari together.

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Speaker 1: We should do that, although that's very dangerous, Like we

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Speaker 1: don't even fly to you know, Tennessee together. We feared

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Speaker 1: that the plane will go down and the podcast will

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Speaker 1: be over. I guess we could trade off. Then it

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Speaker 1: would be pretty amazing story though, Like the podcast would

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Speaker 1: go down in history. If you and I were eaten

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Speaker 1: by tigers would be kind of it would be a

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Speaker 1: heck of a way to go. Well, Emily, and you

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Speaker 1: make it just take it over, there you go, and

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Speaker 1: it would just all be about animals. They should do

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Speaker 1: something together sometime, you know, you like, like they should

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Speaker 1: read listener mail or something like bad or or or

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Speaker 1: they should just start their own show called stuff you

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Speaker 1: should Know about our husbands. There you go, people, good idea.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if we would know, we would not.

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Speaker 1: They'd be like, you think they're so great, Let's tell

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Speaker 1: you about these slobs. No no, no, no, no, these puts.

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Speaker 1: So there should be a ding sound because these puts

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Speaker 1: on every show from now on. Alright, Elephants eat a

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Speaker 1: hundred to six hundred pounds of food in a day

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Speaker 1: and drink between sixteen and forty gallons of water. Say

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Speaker 1: that again, brother, A hundred to six hundred pounds of

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Speaker 1: food in a day. Um, and they are eating and

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Speaker 1: I love this. They basically spend their day when they're

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Speaker 1: awake fourteen to sixteen hours a day, just sort of

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Speaker 1: looking to eat and drink. Yeah, which is it stinks

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Speaker 1: like if you think about it, the reason why they

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Speaker 1: have to eat that much is not because they're so big,

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Speaker 1: but because, well it is in part but mostly because

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Speaker 1: they're herbivores and they're digestives. To some is ridiculously inefficient.

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Speaker 1: Like if if elephants are as intelligent as they appear

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Speaker 1: to be, and probably even more than they appear to

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Speaker 1: be once we start to like learn more about them,

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Speaker 1: I think all it's gonna do is just provide it

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Speaker 1: as cascading series of woes. Um. They like, if they

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Speaker 1: didn't have to spend so much of their time looking

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Speaker 1: for food, what would they be doing? Maybe they would

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Speaker 1: learn to paint on their own. Maybe. So the reason

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Speaker 1: why they're they're um, they eat so much again is

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Speaker 1: because they don't digest a lot of that food, and

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Speaker 1: so undigested stuff comes out as poop and such frequency

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Speaker 1: that you can actually make paper out of it. There's

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Speaker 1: elephant poop paper. People use it and they get the

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Speaker 1: fiber out of the elephant poop to make paper with.

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Speaker 1: That's how how undigested so much of their food is. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they eat like you said, they are herbivore, so they

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Speaker 1: all kinds of plants. Um. They love fruit. I imagine

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Speaker 1: that's like the sweet sweet nectar when compared to you know,

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Speaker 1: like dry bamboo. Um. And they can study their poop

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Speaker 1: and learn a lot from their poop, just like most animals. Well,

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Speaker 1: elephants don't study their own poop. How do you know

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Speaker 1: they might? Now, of course scientists study it and they can.

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Speaker 1: They can learn a lot by you know, because like

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Speaker 1: you said, those African forest elephants, they're very elusive in

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Speaker 1: the forest and you can't find them, but you can't

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Speaker 1: find their poop everywhere. Yeah, you can tell their anus

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Speaker 1: size from the their poop size, which sounds hilarious and

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Speaker 1: it is. But you also can tell like the age

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Speaker 1: and the general size of the elephant based on their

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Speaker 1: anus size, which you find based on their poop size.

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Speaker 1: That's right. Plus you can make a banging paper out

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Speaker 1: of it too. Sure. Uh. The range, the African bush

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Speaker 1: elephants have a very wide range across Africa. Um south

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Speaker 1: of the Sahara Desert and the forest elephant are in

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Speaker 1: rainforest that's the name. Uh. Near the equator sort of

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Speaker 1: around Cameroon is where they're largely centered as far as Asian.

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Speaker 1: They're all over Southeast Asia. Um, they have some in

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Speaker 1: China even, but India is really where you're going to

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Speaker 1: find the most Asian elephants. Um see Thailand and Anesia, Sumatra,

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Speaker 1: Sri Lanka they each have more than a thousand. And

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Speaker 1: we already talked about Burma a little bit. They have

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Speaker 1: the second largest total population worldwide, I guess, except for India.

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Speaker 1: They have the the largest captive population though of at

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Speaker 1: least five thousand, all working in those government timber camps,

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Speaker 1: which again I'm just I'm sure somebody's gonna write and

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Speaker 1: be like, h don't they're not taking very well care

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Speaker 1: of But I didn't see anything like that, which I'm

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Speaker 1: just astounded by. I don't know if that's coming across

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Speaker 1: or not, but I'm really astounded. Yeah, and if you

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Speaker 1: listen to our episode, um, well, I guess it's either

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Speaker 1: from last week or it'll be next week. And then

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Speaker 1: I'm predicting the future about elephants swimming in the which

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Speaker 1: one set lock nest lock nests. They do love to swim,

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Speaker 1: and they are very floaty, they're very buoyant. Um, they

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Speaker 1: won't you're not gonna find an elephant drowned in the water.

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Speaker 1: They can not only swim, but if they get tired,

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Speaker 1: they can just float bob. Yeah, they can bob in

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Speaker 1: the water and they apparently an elephant has been recorded

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Speaker 1: as swimming forty eight kilometers thirty miles. Pretty amazing and

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Speaker 1: six hours at a stretch. That's pretty nuts. And baby

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Speaker 1: elephants one of the one of the greatest things you

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Speaker 1: can do is sit around and watch baby elephants splashing

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Speaker 1: in kittie pools on YouTube. They love it. They love

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Speaker 1: to swim. Yeah, let's talk about the trunk. Because when

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Speaker 1: you see an elephant and you watch this, if you'd like,

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Speaker 1: really study an elephant for a while, you look at

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Speaker 1: that trunk. It's it's it's amazing. It looks like a

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Speaker 1: completely separate living thing almost sometimes it Yeah, but it's

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Speaker 1: a nose. It's basically their upper lip and their nose

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Speaker 1: combined together in this elongated form. Yeah. But when they

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Speaker 1: you know, you watch an elephant, a lot of times

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Speaker 1: they're just standing still. But this trunk is doing so

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Speaker 1: many crazy looking things. I see what you mean. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it just looks like its own, like its own animal,

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Speaker 1: almost like um the thing from the Adams Family, the

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Speaker 1: disembodied hand, That's exactly what I was thinking, or the

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Speaker 1: the alien hands syndrome guy from our short lived TV show,

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Speaker 1: right right, basically the same thing, right exactly. Uh. And

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Speaker 1: one of the big theories is is that trunk and

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Speaker 1: this makes a lot of sense to me evolutionarily speaking,

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Speaker 1: is that trunk developed um as compensation. Basically, I can

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Speaker 1: reach things higher without having to grow, or I can

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Speaker 1: get things on the ground without having to crouch down

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Speaker 1: and put my head on the ground, which makes me

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Speaker 1: very very vulnerable to attack. So I have this big, long,

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Speaker 1: extended nose that can go get stuff on the ground

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Speaker 1: or up above me, and I can still sort of

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Speaker 1: be safe. Yes, Okay, So it's a knows that you

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Speaker 1: can use to get things with, including water. Apparently it

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Speaker 1: holds up to two gallons of water in the trunk,

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Speaker 1: just in the trunk. Um. But it's also really um dextrous.

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Speaker 1: I guess it has a hundred thousand muscles in it,

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Speaker 1: both fast twitch and slow twitch. So I've read that

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Speaker 1: an elephant can pull a limb off of a tree

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Speaker 1: with its trunk or pluck a blade of grass out

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Speaker 1: of the ground like it's it can it can do

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Speaker 1: it all. Basically, it can deal cards whatever. But you

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Speaker 1: shouldn't train an elephant to deal cards. No, just put

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Speaker 1: the cards down and walk away. And if it happens,

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Speaker 1: it happens. That is that is the motto of dealing

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Speaker 1: with elephants. UM. And initially, you know, evolution might have said, hey,

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Speaker 1: use these great things to drink water out of. But

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Speaker 1: like we said, and we'll continue to hammer this home.

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Speaker 1: Elephants are super smart. So they said, hey, I've got

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Speaker 1: this really long fifth arm that has two hundred thousand

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Speaker 1: muscles in it, So I can get food, and I

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Speaker 1: can bathe myself, and I can pick up dust and

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Speaker 1: mud and put it all over my body if I

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Speaker 1: don't want to get sunburned, or if I want to

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Speaker 1: have a sort of low fi insect repellent, or I

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Speaker 1: can communicate with my buddy over there with my trunk. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of stuff they do with their trunk

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Speaker 1: that we're starting to figure out. There's a group called

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Speaker 1: Elephant Voices UM and they have an elephant gestures database

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Speaker 1: based on decades of studying elephants up close. UM and

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Speaker 1: they have a really complex and intricate um basically a

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Speaker 1: sign language that includes more than just their trunk, but

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Speaker 1: their trunk plays a big role in it too. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: There's one example on this article, flop trunk on head um,

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Speaker 1: and that is an elephant basically raising the head vertically

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Speaker 1: and then flipping their trunk really high up in the

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Speaker 1: air and letting it PLoP down on their head. That

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Speaker 1: is a very specific play based gesture, kind of a

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Speaker 1: joyful play. Yeah. Like if you see an elephant doing that,

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Speaker 1: they're having a good time. Yeah. The the Elephant Gestures

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Speaker 1: Database the names of the different things the gestures sound

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Speaker 1: like they were all written by Nell Flop trunk on

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Speaker 1: head at least chicken make so I've got another factor

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Speaker 1: the podcast for you ready, all right, baby elephants suck

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Speaker 1: their trunks like human babies suck their thumbs. That amazing.

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Speaker 1: I mean, forget about it, man, I can't even with

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Speaker 1: the stuff I know. Uh. And in Tim Burton's going

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Speaker 1: to ruin it all with a new Dumbo movie. Oh

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Speaker 1: is it live action or you know? He's yeah, I

402
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Speaker 1: think it's live action and c G. I why he's

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Speaker 1: gonna ruin it? Sure he is, poor Tim Burton, He's

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Speaker 1: the ruiner of things. You ruined everything. You ruiner Elephants.

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Speaker 1: All elephants are jen ended in Africa and then spread

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Speaker 1: throughout the world from there, including North America, across like

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Speaker 1: everything else, across the Bearing straight Land Bridge or Ice

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Speaker 1: Bridge depending on when it was, and then all the

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Speaker 1: way into South America from there. Yeah, that you can

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Speaker 1: make a pretty strong case that they drew humans into

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Speaker 1: North America because they migrated first and humans probably followed

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Speaker 1: them as hunters over like millions of years later. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: so um, the this is weird. So the the mammoth

414
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Speaker 1: and the elephant share a common ancestor, their most recent

415
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Speaker 1: common ancestors six million years in the past, which means

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Speaker 1: that elephants and mammoths coexisted at the same time. Like

417
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:51,359
Speaker 1: elephants have been around a really long time. It's just

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Speaker 1: I guess when they moved out of Africa, um, and

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Speaker 1: beyond Asia up into you know the Russian steps in

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Speaker 1: Siberia and across the Lambridge, and then back down into

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Speaker 1: North America and then eventually South America. They took them

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Speaker 1: like many different forms, but the wooly mammoth is the

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Speaker 1: one you typically think of. But there were elephants at

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Speaker 1: the same time, there were also mammoths, and then there

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Speaker 1: were other kinds of mammoths besides the wooly mammoth, which

426
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:20,400
Speaker 1: I think we did a wooly mammoth episode. We did

427
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:24,160
Speaker 1: do a wooly mammoth episode. Um, if you say so,

428
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 1: we did, and they were all over. There was also

429
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 1: a type of mammoth, or not even a mammoth. It

430
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 1: was just a different type of elephant called a gampa

431
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:36,879
Speaker 1: theater um that was in South America. And if you

432
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:38,520
Speaker 1: look at a gampa theater I think it was a

433
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 1: little bigger than the elephants of today, but it just

434
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:44,120
Speaker 1: looks like an elephant. And um, they used to hunt

435
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 1: them down in South America and hunted them to extinction.

436
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 1: They think possibly a combination of that and climate change.

437
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:53,360
Speaker 1: But you don't think of elephants in and the America's

438
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,480
Speaker 1: But there definitely were some here for a very long

439
00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 1: time that climate change can't be real, Josh, because it's

440
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 1: snowed last week, right, Well, yeah, exactly. I mean just

441
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:05,439
Speaker 1: imagine that it hadn't snowed and we would all know

442
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:09,119
Speaker 1: that climate change is for real. Um, So there is

443
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 1: a or was rather a naturalist in the eighteenth century

444
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,639
Speaker 1: France name. And this is a great name. You want

445
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 1: to say it? Actually you're a French expert. Oh, I

446
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 1: wasn't expected this. George Louis Leclerc, the Comte de Bouffon.

447
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:28,440
Speaker 1: Was that his title? Is that what that means? Yeah?

448
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 1: He was the Count of Boufonka, which I'd be like,

449
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:36,200
Speaker 1: can I get another count Chip instead of Bouffon. Don't

450
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,400
Speaker 1: know what's wrong with buff It's so so, It's okay,

451
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 1: it's it's a a kind of a garish word, you

452
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:46,360
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. Sure it sounds like Bufont. Yeah,

453
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 1: and like he wants at Bouffont herity these days? Nobody,

454
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 1: nobody except the B fifty two and maybe that lady

455
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 1: from the old um. Now what was the name of

456
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 1: that steakhouse? The local steakhouse outback steaks? No, what's the

457
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 1: other one? Longhorn? Do you remember the ads of the

458
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:12,400
Speaker 1: nineties with the lady with the Buffont Yeah you do.

459
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:14,639
Speaker 1: I really don't. What was her deal? She was just

460
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 1: like a proto hipster lady. It was. Yeah, it was

461
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 1: on the Longhorn commercials. Very interesting, man. Now I could

462
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:25,399
Speaker 1: go for a steak, Yeah, me too. Um. All right,

463
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:31,160
Speaker 1: so where were we right? The eighteenth century century naturalist Um,

464
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:35,959
Speaker 1: he wrote a lot in about natural history, and he

465
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:39,400
Speaker 1: loved the elephant, and he was really knocked out by

466
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:44,399
Speaker 1: the intelligence of why's that funny? Just the idea of

467
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:46,719
Speaker 1: him being like, man, I am knocked out by that

468
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 1: is far out man. Um. He was knocked out by

469
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:54,960
Speaker 1: the brain and the intelligence of the elephant. And he

470
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 1: said it approaches near to man and understanding as much

471
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:02,399
Speaker 1: at least as matter can approach to mind, which I

472
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 1: understood the first half of that. I think in eighteenth

473
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:09,239
Speaker 1: century speak, that means these dudes are really smart. And

474
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 1: I mean like he wasn't just you know, making stuff

475
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:14,879
Speaker 1: up here like this is he was onto something because

476
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 1: elephants are extremely intelligent from what we can tell. And

477
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 1: again we're just learning more and more about him. And

478
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:25,360
Speaker 1: as we learn more about him and start like study

479
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:27,399
Speaker 1: the way that they interact with one another and how

480
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:30,239
Speaker 1: they interact with us, we're like, well, these are some

481
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,159
Speaker 1: of the sharpest animals on the planet. Yeah, they have

482
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 1: different personalities. Uh, each elephant has its own personality, and

483
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 1: you know you've heard about an elephant not forgetting they

484
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 1: do have a great memory and great recognition ability. And

485
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 1: this story, everyone, I love. This story is kind of

486
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 1: the best thing ever. In at a sanctuary in uh

487
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 1: Tennessee that was a resident elephant named Jenny. They introduced

488
00:28:56,480 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 1: a new lady named Shirley, an Asian eleph and they

489
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 1: went berserk for one another. They were checking each other out,

490
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:09,640
Speaker 1: they were slapping trunks, they were really animated. Uh. They

491
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 1: described it as euphoria bellowing, and then Jenny starts bellowing,

492
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 1: and they said that I've never experienced anything that intense

493
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 1: without it being aggression. They did so a little digging, uh.

494
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 1: And it turns out that twenty three years earlier, for

495
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 1: just a few months, Jenny and Shirley were in the

496
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:32,160
Speaker 1: same circus together and they saw each other twenty three

497
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 1: years later and we're like, girl, what do you what

498
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 1: have you been up to? Well? I think is cool

499
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 1: about that story in addition to the fact that like

500
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 1: they remembered each other after twenty three years, but that

501
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 1: also it says so much about them that they were

502
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 1: able to form a bond like that just a few months.

503
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 1: In just a few months. Yeah, I think this has

504
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:55,600
Speaker 1: a tremendous amount about elephants and elephants society. What a story.

505
00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 1: I love it, ye so um because they have these

506
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 1: kind of relationships with one another. They have really complex

507
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 1: um as puts it, very rich um societies and families

508
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 1: and groups that they live in, their their their social

509
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 1: networks are very rich and complex, right, And one of

510
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 1: the ways, um, I mean, like, I didn't realize this,

511
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 1: but I came across this in researching this article. Apparently,

512
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 1: like if you see like a bunch of deer hanging around,

513
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 1: or some birds flying together, they're not like buddies or friends.

514
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 1: They don't know one from another. Typically don't say that,

515
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 1: but I mean, I hadn't really thought about that before.

516
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 1: I was just a second back. Always assumed at least

517
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 1: they were they knew each other by smell or something

518
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 1: like that. But from what I saw, I can't remember

519
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 1: where I saw it, but they were they were saying like,

520
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:55,040
Speaker 1: it's atypical for animals to recognize one another as individuals,

521
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 1: and the elephants definitely do and as as evidenced by

522
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 1: that story. But that kind of lends evidence to the

523
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 1: idea that elephants are self aware, which is a growing

524
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 1: awareness among humans that elephants seem to be self aware.

525
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 1: And one way we test animals to see if they're

526
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 1: self aware is called the mirror test, which is kind

527
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 1: of a test. I think we can improve on it,

528
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 1: but it does it does suggest that the possibility that

529
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:25,479
Speaker 1: the animal sees itself as an individual. Yeah, so this

530
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 1: was developed by Gordon Gallup Jr. Seventy So I definitely

531
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 1: think there's an update that we need here. We need

532
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 1: this uh two point o version. But they did. They

533
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 1: test a lot of animals. Um apes, great apes, dolphins, orcas,

534
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:44,400
Speaker 1: and magpies have passed this test, along with one Asian

535
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 1: elephant named Happy. And what they do is they get

536
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 1: a mirror. They take the animal and put a red

537
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:54,400
Speaker 1: mark and paint this red mark and let's say, on

538
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 1: their face something that they can't see without a mirror.

539
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 1: They hold up the mirror and if the animal looks

540
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 1: at the mirror and then doesn't like like, if they

541
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 1: did this to me, I would throw my poop at

542
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 1: the mirror and smash the mirror. But if the animal

543
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 1: doesn't do that and they actually touch their own face,

544
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:16,360
Speaker 1: then they understand that they're seeing themselves and not some

545
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 1: other weird animal across from them. Right, they see they

546
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 1: realize that they're seeing their reflection in That shows self

547
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 1: awarenes if they if they laugh at how silly they look,

548
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 1: then that really shows self awareness, maybe even self consciousness,

549
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, and it takes human children a couple

550
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 1: of years to pass this test. We should say, yes,

551
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:40,480
Speaker 1: did you I So there's apparently not all the great

552
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 1: apes past the test that guerrillas don't, which is weird.

553
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:49,000
Speaker 1: But they think that possibly guerrillas don't because making eye

554
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:53,160
Speaker 1: contact in um, the guerrilla world is such an aggressive

555
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 1: act that they just don't look at themselves in the

556
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 1: mirror enough to see that they have that mark on

557
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 1: their face. That's what they think. Yeah, and this doesn't

558
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:03,440
Speaker 1: you know, this isn't like we said, it's pretty low fi.

559
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 1: It's not some you can't say this is proof that

560
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 1: they are self aware and sentient. But um, it's a

561
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 1: pretty cool test it is. Plus also, dogs don't pass it,

562
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 1: which automatically means that it's a failure of a test

563
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 1: because Momo herself proves that all and all dogs are

564
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 1: self aware and smart, imperfect in every way. Yeah, and

565
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 1: they also do point out with dogs like their their

566
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 1: best Uh, the way they see the world is through

567
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 1: their nose and so maybe this isn't the best test

568
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:35,680
Speaker 1: for them, right, so they could do a cent version

569
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 1: maybe right. I don't know how you would do it.

570
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 1: I've been trying to figure it out for days with

571
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:43,560
Speaker 1: Momo just in my head. But yeah, I'll eventually experiment

572
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:46,160
Speaker 1: on mo and then well, there is another test that

573
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 1: they use to kind of show self awareness and the

574
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 1: idea of individual identity, and that's the third party relationships. Yeah,

575
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 1: this is pretty cool. So um they I guess they.

576
00:33:56,360 --> 00:34:00,200
Speaker 1: It says they accidentally drive a jeep in between an

577
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 1: elephant and her her offspringer baby, and the elephant might

578
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 1: not notice because she's busy doing something else. But if

579
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 1: another elephant trumpets to the mom elephant to say, hey,

580
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 1: there's a jeep between you and your baby, that elephant

581
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:17,839
Speaker 1: is indicating that it's aware that that mom and that

582
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 1: baby are related, that they have a relationship that has

583
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 1: nothing to do necessarily with that third elephant who warned

584
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 1: the mom. That's not supposed to exist among non sentient beings.

585
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:34,320
Speaker 1: And by the way, if all this talk about sentience

586
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 1: and self awareness among animals is floating your boat. We

587
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:40,440
Speaker 1: did a two part series on animal rights that touched

588
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:43,360
Speaker 1: on this heavily. Yeah, that's right, because it was a

589
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:47,160
Speaker 1: famous case where they were trying to get a personhood

590
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:50,439
Speaker 1: and human rights for a chimp. Right, yeah, the Non

591
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 1: Human Rights Project. They moved on to elephants, including the

592
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:58,719
Speaker 1: elephant Happy that passed the mirror test, and right now

593
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 1: Happy is in the Bronx Zoo, and the Non Human

594
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:06,720
Speaker 1: Rights Projects position is basically like, um, an elephants range

595
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 1: is like at least a hundred times what the exhibit

596
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:16,239
Speaker 1: that Happy lives in is. It's like an acre. And

597
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:18,879
Speaker 1: their range is so wide that in a single day,

598
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:22,880
Speaker 1: Happy in Africa would probably walk about a hundred acres.

599
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 1: But Happy as an acre, and Happy is a sentient

600
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 1: being and deserves better, and so they're trying to spring

601
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:34,879
Speaker 1: her by making her and by by bestowing personhood through

602
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 1: the courts. And they actually got a habeas corpus issued,

603
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 1: which you only do that for humans. And then the

604
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 1: only other time it's it's happened is with chimps through

605
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:46,400
Speaker 1: the Non Human Rights Project. Uh, and it's up in

606
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 1: the air. But the judge basically said, hey, uh, you

607
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:53,480
Speaker 1: guys need to show whether or not you're unlawfully imprisoning

608
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:58,440
Speaker 1: ascension being a person basically. Yeah, so that's where it

609
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:00,800
Speaker 1: stands right now. All right, let's take a break and

610
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:03,319
Speaker 1: contemplate that for a couple of hours, and then we'll

611
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 1: dust ourselves off, come back and talk a little bit

612
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 1: about the difference between male and female elephants and more

613
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 1: about their social component right after this. So this is

614
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 1: fun when you talk about the male and female elephants.

615
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:40,680
Speaker 1: This whole episode is fun. So males leave when they're

616
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 1: young teenagers. They leave earlier than the little ladies do.

617
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:47,879
Speaker 1: They set off on their own. UM. They might move

618
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,400
Speaker 1: from group to group. They may join up with another family,

619
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:56,480
Speaker 1: but by and large they usually get around and live alone. UM.

620
00:36:56,520 --> 00:37:00,239
Speaker 1: But they do, they do form groups when they need to. UM.

621
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 1: It's not permanent, you know, it could change, and it

622
00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:06,720
Speaker 1: is a static situation. UM. Kind of like going between

623
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:09,840
Speaker 1: different groups and different groups of males getting together. But

624
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:11,759
Speaker 1: when they do get together, the males, there is a

625
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:16,440
Speaker 1: definite hierarchy involved, um, seniority based on size and age.

626
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:20,279
Speaker 1: And that hierarchy is really important, UM to kind of

627
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:23,719
Speaker 1: maintain order when it comes to like who gets the

628
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:26,959
Speaker 1: water first and stuff like that. Right or where where

629
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 1: which way we're gonna walk to go find water or

630
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:32,240
Speaker 1: something like that. There needs to be somebody in charge.

631
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 1: But supposedly when when there's plenty of water and everybody's

632
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:38,279
Speaker 1: got all the food they need or whatever, that's that

633
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:43,239
Speaker 1: hierarchy can break down pretty easily. Um, but also informally

634
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:45,880
Speaker 1: not like it. It breaks down in like society just

635
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:49,040
Speaker 1: crumbles among this group of males, and it breaks down

636
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 1: because it's not necessary, which is kind of neat. And

637
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:56,400
Speaker 1: apparently the groups of males that hang out together are

638
00:37:56,520 --> 00:38:01,320
Speaker 1: um are likened to a group of old drinking buddies.

639
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 1: They're just rowdy. Yeah, it's kind of funny, rough housing

640
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:09,359
Speaker 1: and all that kind of stuff. Males occasionally will go

641
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:11,560
Speaker 1: through something it's kind of like being in heat. It

642
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:18,200
Speaker 1: sounds like called must well well done m us th

643
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:22,360
Speaker 1: h uh. And this is when they just their testosterone

644
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:26,800
Speaker 1: goes through the roof and they are like, I need

645
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 1: to mate, Like yesterday I got the itch. I got

646
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:33,880
Speaker 1: a severe itch and I can't scratch it with my

647
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:37,920
Speaker 1: tusk because they're fixed. Rough housing with my drinking buddies

648
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:41,480
Speaker 1: isn't helping. None of that is helping. Um. And when

649
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:46,600
Speaker 1: they're going through this must phase, UM, they actually, like

650
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 1: all the other male elephants recognize this and say, hey, um,

651
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:54,880
Speaker 1: freddie over. There's as you can tell, guys, is he's

652
00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:57,960
Speaker 1: really feeling it. So why don't we let him drink first?

653
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:00,799
Speaker 1: And why don't we just kind of go where he

654
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 1: wants to go? Right now, he's leaking a trail of

655
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 1: urine everywhere. That's literal physical warning to the rest of

656
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:10,640
Speaker 1: us to stay back. Yeah, and to a little cent

657
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 1: for for ladies to say, well, well, well let me

658
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 1: follow this trail and see where it goes. It smells

659
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:22,759
Speaker 1: like sex panthers a hundred percent of the time. What

660
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:26,440
Speaker 1: is the half it works? Half the time? Half the

661
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:29,920
Speaker 1: time it works? I don't remember. I should know that

662
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:33,400
Speaker 1: we both should chuck. We both just failed spectacularly. Oh

663
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 1: and occasionally, uh, and this is kind of what I've

664
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:38,360
Speaker 1: seen is the only times when elephants really get aggressive

665
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 1: with one another. But um, if it gets pretty extreme, um,

666
00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:45,800
Speaker 1: and these male elephants there's a couple of them, um

667
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:48,680
Speaker 1: going through must they will they will go at it

668
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:53,160
Speaker 1: to um to get the lady. They will go each other. Um.

669
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:55,239
Speaker 1: And you know, no one wants to talk about that

670
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,839
Speaker 1: because it's everyone wants to think elephants are always getting along,

671
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:01,279
Speaker 1: but sometimes when there's a couple of dudes around that

672
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 1: are both super rebbed up, they can get in a

673
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:08,160
Speaker 1: fight over a lady to the death sometimes. And I

674
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:11,319
Speaker 1: think you kind of said it, but males mostly live

675
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:14,120
Speaker 1: on their own, and they do form these groups, and

676
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:16,840
Speaker 1: they do have friendships and bonds with other males, but

677
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 1: they are very frequently found like traveling by themselves, probably

678
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:23,839
Speaker 1: to avoid stuff like that. But if you're bummed out

679
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:26,840
Speaker 1: by the fact that elephants will kill other elephants to

680
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:31,719
Speaker 1: to have access to females, you can take heart and

681
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 1: that elephants aren't territorial at all. They don't have territory.

682
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:40,080
Speaker 1: And when different groups of elephants, whether it's males and

683
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 1: uh groups of females or different groups of um of

684
00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:47,360
Speaker 1: the same sex or whatever, you have a bunch of

685
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:49,720
Speaker 1: different groups of elephants coming together in the same place,

686
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 1: they basically have a party, a jamboree. Do Like, if

687
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:55,719
Speaker 1: it's a body of water or a place where there's

688
00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 1: a lot of fruit or some reason for a bunch

689
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:01,880
Speaker 1: of elephants who don't know one another get together. It's

690
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:05,439
Speaker 1: not only a party, but at that party you can

691
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 1: have like Shirley's in, uh, who is it? And Jenny's going,

692
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 1: oh my god, I haven't seen you in twelve years.

693
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:14,800
Speaker 1: What are you up to? Is that your little baby?

694
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:18,560
Speaker 1: It's the sweetest thing. Yeah, they like they get really

695
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 1: excited when they see old friends. They'll do like pirouettes

696
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:25,400
Speaker 1: pe poop. Sometimes they pee and poop out of excitement

697
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:28,879
Speaker 1: to see one another, which is adorable. Yeah, and is

698
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 1: um kind of lone wolf. As the males can be, Um,

699
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:36,240
Speaker 1: the females are really um. This is when you really

700
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:42,719
Speaker 1: like get the heartwarm, going, heartwarm, heart warm, heartworm. They'll

701
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:45,080
Speaker 1: give you heartwarm thinking about this is when it can

702
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 1: warm your heart. Because females they lived very much and organized, uh,

703
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:53,319
Speaker 1: in an organized way. They live in family groups. There

704
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 1: are mothers sometimes three generations all together and their little

705
00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 1: pups and their aunts and their moms and grandmas. There

706
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:04,520
Speaker 1: might be up to thirty of them together with all

707
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 1: their kids. And they're all led, which is usually the

708
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:10,719
Speaker 1: oldest one, but not always. But they're led by a matriarch.

709
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:13,279
Speaker 1: And the matriarch is the one that's like, let's go

710
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:17,840
Speaker 1: this way. Um, not because I just am older and smarter,

711
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:21,319
Speaker 1: but I actually have experience that I can remember that

712
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 1: will help lead us to safety. Yeah, which is pretty spectacular.

713
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:29,040
Speaker 1: It's another thing that's that's remarkable about elephants is that

714
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:33,319
Speaker 1: the matriarchs lead by experience. There was this um this

715
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 1: drought in Tanzania, and the different herds led by matriarchs,

716
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:43,560
Speaker 1: they were old enough to remember the last drought back

717
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:47,319
Speaker 1: in nineteen fifty eight to nineteen sixty one, the ones

718
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:50,759
Speaker 1: that had lived through that before as younger, younger elephants

719
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:54,719
Speaker 1: um they remembered how the herd survived, and so their

720
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:58,759
Speaker 1: herd was likelier to survive that drought than herds that

721
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:01,840
Speaker 1: were led by younger atriarchs that hadn't lived through that

722
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:05,279
Speaker 1: previous drought. So they remember this stuff and they they

723
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:09,279
Speaker 1: lead their their herds based on this past experience and

724
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 1: the wisdom that they gained from it. Let's just say

725
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:15,920
Speaker 1: it through from wisdom. They lead by wisdom, they do.

726
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:22,160
Speaker 1: And some matriarchs are very confident, uh, they are very um.

727
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:24,440
Speaker 1: Some are very vigilant though, and a little more nervous.

728
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:26,759
Speaker 1: It kind of depends on who your matriarch is. Some

729
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:29,600
Speaker 1: are very maternal, and you know when they they send

730
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:31,839
Speaker 1: the signal for everyone to go. They're like, well, let's

731
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:36,319
Speaker 1: wait because Janice's little pup is still bathing, so let's

732
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:40,200
Speaker 1: all hang out. Uh. Then some of them are more

733
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:42,439
Speaker 1: like no, no, no, come on, get get out of water.

734
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:46,120
Speaker 1: We're going. We're leaving now, come on, Janice, I'm going

735
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:50,000
Speaker 1: with or without you. Janice is like, what a bummer? Uh?

736
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:54,080
Speaker 1: And then they're together also for a very practical reason. Um,

737
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:56,760
Speaker 1: they help each other out. They babysit for one another

738
00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:02,759
Speaker 1: God's sake. M h. I love that they babysit for

739
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 1: each other, Josh. I know they like the mom can

740
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:09,440
Speaker 1: go off and forage for food for pup and know

741
00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:11,960
Speaker 1: that the pup is being watched by some of her

742
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:16,399
Speaker 1: herd members. Her family members is what they're called. That's right.

743
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 1: If a matriarch dies, Um, there's a little short time

744
00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:24,239
Speaker 1: where they're like, all right, who's who's who's next? Who's

745
00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:28,960
Speaker 1: gonna step up? They have ranked choice voting. That's how

746
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:31,799
Speaker 1: advanced they are. They're more advanced than every state in

747
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:37,239
Speaker 1: the Union besides main Um. A lot of times, like

748
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:40,239
Speaker 1: we said, it's the oldest remaining female, like she would

749
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:42,840
Speaker 1: be next up, but sometimes it is not. Sometimes it

750
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:46,280
Speaker 1: is the matriarch's daughter. Um, and she will just assume

751
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:50,719
Speaker 1: the position of mom of her mother as matriarch. Yeah,

752
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:54,400
Speaker 1: kind of like she like, um, oh, what is that

753
00:44:54,440 --> 00:45:00,400
Speaker 1: called where where you like become king or queen because

754
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:04,239
Speaker 1: your father and mother was king or queen. I can't

755
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:09,200
Speaker 1: remember what it's called. But yeah, basically, uh, that that

756
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:12,880
Speaker 1: that can that exists in the elephant society, if that

757
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 1: that elephant happens to be like suited for the job

758
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:19,280
Speaker 1: and if there's an issue, if there's a dispute, whereas

759
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:22,000
Speaker 1: some elephants are like, actually, I don't think she's ready yet.

760
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:25,480
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna follow her. I'm gonna follow Janie, and

761
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:28,839
Speaker 1: Janis will be like far out. That's it. Like the

762
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:31,839
Speaker 1: Janis and the other elephants that want to follow her,

763
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:34,680
Speaker 1: they go off on their own family. There's no battle,

764
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:37,680
Speaker 1: there's no there's no fight to the death over dominance.

765
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:39,879
Speaker 1: It's just like all right, we'll see later. And then

766
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:42,560
Speaker 1: they may see each other later at that clearing or

767
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:46,080
Speaker 1: at that watering hole and be just happy as pie

768
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:49,760
Speaker 1: to see one another. And they may also even travel together,

769
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:53,200
Speaker 1: but just at a much greater distance, but within communicating

770
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 1: distance to like warn one another and kind of basically

771
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:58,799
Speaker 1: keep up the same pace, but they just keep their

772
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:03,360
Speaker 1: distance more. Yeah. They they'll growl at one another. They'll trumpet, um,

773
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:06,640
Speaker 1: they'll grunt, they will uh, they will stomp their feet,

774
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:11,080
Speaker 1: they will flick their ears, that will use their trunks. Um,

775
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:14,840
Speaker 1: they will angle their heads and tusks and switch their tails.

776
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:18,120
Speaker 1: These are all communications. Uh. And while they are stomping,

777
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:19,920
Speaker 1: and while they do have those big, sturdy feet, they're

778
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:22,919
Speaker 1: also really sensitive. So if an elephant is just standing still,

779
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:26,680
Speaker 1: it can feel the vibrations in the ground of something

780
00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:29,719
Speaker 1: far away or someone calling them from far away, through

781
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:32,960
Speaker 1: through the ground through their feet, like the rumbling through

782
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:37,160
Speaker 1: the ground of an elephant growling like miles away. Yeah,

783
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:40,520
Speaker 1: and they also that trunk. I forgot to mention. It's

784
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:44,520
Speaker 1: they have a really sensitive sense of smell. Supposedly they

785
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:47,880
Speaker 1: can smell water up to twelve miles away, and that

786
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:51,440
Speaker 1: they've water has no smell, right, They've been shown to

787
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:56,840
Speaker 1: smell storms up to like a hundred and fifty miles away. Yeah, amazing,

788
00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:59,560
Speaker 1: pretty amazing. I don't know if we've gotten this across

789
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:02,359
Speaker 1: or not, but elephants are pretty amazing. We do that

790
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:05,080
Speaker 1: with all our animal podcasts. I know, I love it.

791
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:07,319
Speaker 1: Should do one about like, I don't know, what's a

792
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:12,000
Speaker 1: boring animal that's not so impressive. Let's see, let's see

793
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:14,799
Speaker 1: they're all great. Yeah, I really can't think of a

794
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:20,040
Speaker 1: boring animal. Like, there's something fascinating about every animal. Yeah,

795
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:21,840
Speaker 1: I was gonna say frogs, but I was like, oh, no,

796
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:25,440
Speaker 1: frogs turned out to be pretty fascinating. Frogs are the best. No,

797
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:29,719
Speaker 1: elephants are the best. Uh. There's this one researcher that

798
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:34,120
Speaker 1: um firmly believes that elephants have a sense of humor. Uh.

799
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:37,000
Speaker 1: And she said she was recalling how they play and

800
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:40,640
Speaker 1: they would charge her car and she thought they were

801
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:45,560
Speaker 1: tripping and falling and tusk the ground and they kept

802
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 1: doing it and she was like, no, I know what

803
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:53,080
Speaker 1: they're doing. Now. They're they're pratt falling. They're pretending to

804
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:56,719
Speaker 1: fall in front of the car and having a good

805
00:47:56,760 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 1: time doing it. Yeah, like they pretended they were charging

806
00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:02,560
Speaker 1: her car. Are in the sanctuary, and like within they

807
00:48:02,680 --> 00:48:05,320
Speaker 1: tripped right before it. And it happened enough times that

808
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:12,279
Speaker 1: she realized that they were they were joking. Yeah, it's amazing. Uh.

809
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:15,440
Speaker 1: What else, Well, this is you know the saddest thing

810
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:18,719
Speaker 1: because everyone knows that elephants mourn. We've all seen the

811
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:21,200
Speaker 1: videos and it is true. And I think in our

812
00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:24,320
Speaker 1: grief episode, I told the story of Domini, the elephant

813
00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:28,839
Speaker 1: who basically died of a broken heart from grief. Don't

814
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:35,080
Speaker 1: retell that story, but um, they very famously grieve. Um.

815
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:39,280
Speaker 1: There will be extended morning periods for groups of elephants.

816
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:44,280
Speaker 1: There are grieving rituals over corpses. Uh. And they also

817
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:47,879
Speaker 1: suffer PTSD if they witness violence. So if they see

818
00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:52,120
Speaker 1: a poacher kill and d tuscan elephant, they will have

819
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:56,440
Speaker 1: literal PTSD and stress syntones. So one thing I saw

820
00:48:56,600 --> 00:49:01,200
Speaker 1: it was like that PTSD is that it's tough to

821
00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:05,799
Speaker 1: compare it to human PTST, but that there are like

822
00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:11,440
Speaker 1: real pronounced effects on them UM usually related to stress,

823
00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:15,560
Speaker 1: but also apparently related to not having been brought up

824
00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 1: in their society, so that when they when they like

825
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:23,120
Speaker 1: wouldn't say like an orphan that survives a culling and

826
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:27,640
Speaker 1: is raised like outside of elephant society. It's just not

827
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:30,960
Speaker 1: quite right when you compare it to an elephant that

828
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:35,760
Speaker 1: was raised by elephants, you know, throughout its to maturity

829
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:38,680
Speaker 1: and that they frequently call it things like PTSD or

830
00:49:38,719 --> 00:49:41,640
Speaker 1: things like that, but it's like it's almost its own thing.

831
00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:45,760
Speaker 1: But again, if you did that to a deer or

832
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:49,120
Speaker 1: a bird or something, it's not going to have that

833
00:49:49,239 --> 00:49:52,799
Speaker 1: same effect. It's it's not I hate to say it,

834
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:55,720
Speaker 1: but it doesn't appear to be smart enough to suffer

835
00:49:56,440 --> 00:50:02,640
Speaker 1: psychological damage from a traumatic experience. Yeah, I mean, don't

836
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:05,960
Speaker 1: feel sorry for the deer. He was probably quite glad.

837
00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:08,839
Speaker 1: You should still feel sorry for the deer for what

838
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:11,560
Speaker 1: we do to deer. No, well, yeah, that's a whole

839
00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:14,680
Speaker 1: another that's whole other story. I bought these little things

840
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:16,520
Speaker 1: that go on the front of my car that's supposedly

841
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:19,160
Speaker 1: keep deer away, but I don't know if they work.

842
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:21,759
Speaker 1: I've seen him the giant hands that clap and saying,

843
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:24,719
Speaker 1: oh the wait, dear. I don't even know how this

844
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:27,319
Speaker 1: thing works, and it very well may not work at all.

845
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:29,839
Speaker 1: But the way I put it to Emily, I was like,

846
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:33,440
Speaker 1: unless these actually attract deer, then it's worth like the

847
00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:36,720
Speaker 1: five dollars that it costs. Just just give it a shot.

848
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:41,640
Speaker 1: Do you remember those those hats um that like had

849
00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:45,520
Speaker 1: a cord it would clap, do you remember that. Sure,

850
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:48,680
Speaker 1: my dad had one of those? Did he really? Oh? Man,

851
00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:51,400
Speaker 1: did he ever have the hat with the two uh,

852
00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:54,080
Speaker 1: the beers on both sides. He wasn't quite cool enough

853
00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:55,680
Speaker 1: for that one, but he was cool enough for the

854
00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:59,040
Speaker 1: clapping hat. Okay, I think that's the opposite of cool.

855
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:03,480
Speaker 1: Actually think so too the herbal Elvius. So we we

856
00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:07,520
Speaker 1: mentioned before about um how to interact with elephants, and

857
00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:11,640
Speaker 1: the only way that we found to interact with elephants

858
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:14,880
Speaker 1: ethically is if you go on an ethical safari and

859
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:19,879
Speaker 1: observe them from afar through your binoculars or you know there,

860
00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:22,280
Speaker 1: if you're in the car and you can see them. Great.

861
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:27,040
Speaker 1: But if you see something that's advertised as an elephant sanctuary,

862
00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:32,040
Speaker 1: say something, yeah, I mean sanctuary. There's no law that

863
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:35,600
Speaker 1: dictates when you can use that word. And when travelers

864
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:38,560
Speaker 1: hear that word, they think, oh, well, this means this

865
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:43,920
Speaker 1: is where elephants go to be taken care of because

866
00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:46,839
Speaker 1: it's a sanctuary. I see it's right there on the sign, right.

867
00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:49,400
Speaker 1: It's not necessarily what that means. That elephant that you

868
00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:52,520
Speaker 1: ride or bathe in the pool with may have been

869
00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:56,000
Speaker 1: had its spirit crushed by being kept in that tiny

870
00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:58,680
Speaker 1: pin and starved and beaten for weeks at a time.

871
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:02,960
Speaker 1: This found or of the UK group called Action for

872
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:09,920
Speaker 1: Elephants UK, Maria Mossman. She basically says, any any place

873
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:15,040
Speaker 1: that advertises unnatural behavior just stay away from because they're

874
00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:19,120
Speaker 1: not like elephants shouldn't be doing tricks for humans. And

875
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:22,640
Speaker 1: that includes like bathing with the elephants, which does sound awesome,

876
00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:25,440
Speaker 1: and elephants do bathe and they love to swim and frolic.

877
00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:29,120
Speaker 1: But the big problem with that is that in a

878
00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:31,799
Speaker 1: sanctuary where that's how you get the people to come,

879
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:34,120
Speaker 1: that means you have to keep the elephant in the

880
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:37,680
Speaker 1: water all day and let people climb all over it

881
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:42,120
Speaker 1: all day. That's just genuinely unnatural. It's unnatural for human

882
00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:45,719
Speaker 1: to ride an elephant like you just there. It's really

883
00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:48,680
Speaker 1: easy to step back once you think in the broad

884
00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:52,600
Speaker 1: term of unnatural behavior, all of this, all of the

885
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:57,560
Speaker 1: starts to to become quite clear. You know what you

886
00:52:57,600 --> 00:53:00,400
Speaker 1: should and shouldn't do with an elephant, or you know,

887
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:04,319
Speaker 1: participate in with an elephant, and instead just let it

888
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:06,880
Speaker 1: do its elephant thing and observe it from afar and

889
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:09,600
Speaker 1: appreciate it from afar Yeah. I saw a video the

890
00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:11,440
Speaker 1: other day though, of a black lab that was best

891
00:53:11,480 --> 00:53:14,440
Speaker 1: friends with an elephant. I didn't see that one, and

892
00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:16,200
Speaker 1: I just I don't I don't know the background of

893
00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:19,200
Speaker 1: this elephant. But this black lab was climbing all over

894
00:53:19,239 --> 00:53:22,000
Speaker 1: it and jumping off in the water, and they they

895
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:24,560
Speaker 1: look like they were having a good time. It's unnatural

896
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:28,560
Speaker 1: that dog should be punished for doing it. It wasn't natural,

897
00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:32,120
Speaker 1: but it wasn't a human. It was a dog. Um

898
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:35,759
Speaker 1: Labs they're great. They're they're pretty great too. Uh, as

899
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:41,560
Speaker 1: far as there um their threats, obviously, all three species

900
00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:44,640
Speaker 1: are in decline. It's super sad. Their range, which is

901
00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:49,000
Speaker 1: um a great range like you're talking about, has been

902
00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:55,080
Speaker 1: encumbered upon by humans for centuries and thousands of years.

903
00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:58,960
Speaker 1: Even there, Uh, they just don't have as much room

904
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:03,000
Speaker 1: thanks to people and deforestation and fences and roads and

905
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:06,920
Speaker 1: oil pipelines and things. And then there's the poaching problem

906
00:54:07,120 --> 00:54:10,280
Speaker 1: of killing elephants for their tusks and now their skin.

907
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:14,600
Speaker 1: That's a new thing. It's just horrific to think about. Yeah,

908
00:54:14,920 --> 00:54:18,239
Speaker 1: brand new as of like two thousand thirteen, some I

909
00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:21,600
Speaker 1: believe a Chinese entrepreneur said, hey, you know it would

910
00:54:21,600 --> 00:54:24,800
Speaker 1: be cool as if I started a trend for beads

911
00:54:25,120 --> 00:54:28,120
Speaker 1: jewelry made out of elephants skin. Let me do that.

912
00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:31,200
Speaker 1: And now all of a sudden, the number of elephants

913
00:54:31,239 --> 00:54:35,360
Speaker 1: that are killed for their skin jumped in Burma, just

914
00:54:35,480 --> 00:54:38,880
Speaker 1: over the border from China, from ten a year in

915
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:42,480
Speaker 1: two thousand twelve to sixty one in two thousand and sixteen.

916
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:45,560
Speaker 1: And they'd already their skin had already been used in

917
00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:50,600
Speaker 1: traditional Chinese medicine to cure gastritis and ulcers and regrows

918
00:54:50,600 --> 00:54:54,359
Speaker 1: skin allegedly, um, which accounts for that ten and two

919
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:57,720
Speaker 1: thousand twelve. But apparently the jewelry really caused this jump

920
00:54:58,520 --> 00:55:01,440
Speaker 1: over the last few years. Yeah, China looks like they

921
00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:04,880
Speaker 1: have granted licenses to import at least thirty five elephants

922
00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:08,600
Speaker 1: for skinning over the last couple of years. So that's

923
00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:11,640
Speaker 1: just awful. It really is a great way to end

924
00:55:11,640 --> 00:55:15,400
Speaker 1: the show. Yeah, and there's I mean, they're not endangered

925
00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:18,360
Speaker 1: from what I understand. I think they're listed as vulnerable

926
00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:22,400
Speaker 1: by the World Wildlife Foundation, but they um, their numbers

927
00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:26,640
Speaker 1: have gone down dramatically. In nineteen thirty there were ten

928
00:55:26,719 --> 00:55:30,600
Speaker 1: million wild elephants in Africa, there's four hundred and fifteen

929
00:55:30,640 --> 00:55:34,960
Speaker 1: thousand today then and just in a decade, I believe

930
00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:39,440
Speaker 1: in the two thousands, they dropped by a hundred and

931
00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:43,920
Speaker 1: eleven thousand in just one decade. Um. And in some places,

932
00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:48,000
Speaker 1: I mean most of it's poaching. Um, some countries still

933
00:55:48,040 --> 00:55:54,080
Speaker 1: have like it's legal to trade in ivory um South Africa, Zimbabwe, Botswana,

934
00:55:54,160 --> 00:55:57,759
Speaker 1: Namibia and as wat teeny which you may know and

935
00:55:57,840 --> 00:56:02,319
Speaker 1: love Formuly Swaziland. It's legal to trade in elephant ivory

936
00:56:02,360 --> 00:56:05,840
Speaker 1: in the US, the UK, Japan, and Thailand. It's legal

937
00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:10,160
Speaker 1: to trade an antique elephant ivory um that was you know,

938
00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:14,279
Speaker 1: brought into market before they start they enacted laws against it.

939
00:56:14,680 --> 00:56:18,279
Speaker 1: But um, that's that's pretty much the biggest threat. And

940
00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:21,600
Speaker 1: then also, like you said, their habitat encroachment, Like if

941
00:56:21,640 --> 00:56:25,960
Speaker 1: you build a pipeline, the elephants just don't step over pipelines.

942
00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:29,120
Speaker 1: They're like, oh, okay, well, our our range just got

943
00:56:29,120 --> 00:56:32,080
Speaker 1: cut in half. And again their range is enormous, like

944
00:56:32,120 --> 00:56:36,200
Speaker 1: an African bush elephant, their home range is like to

945
00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:40,920
Speaker 1: almost three million acres. They'll walk hundreds of acres in

946
00:56:40,920 --> 00:56:43,680
Speaker 1: a single day. So I mean even keeping one in

947
00:56:43,719 --> 00:56:45,960
Speaker 1: the zoo. Even if you're keeping it alive, Even if

948
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:48,000
Speaker 1: you keep it alive for a while, like you're really

949
00:56:48,120 --> 00:56:52,400
Speaker 1: robbing it of its experience. Even in a large sanctuary,

950
00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:54,839
Speaker 1: you're still robbing it of a lot of its experience too.

951
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:58,520
Speaker 1: It's basically like we we we need to preserve and

952
00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:01,719
Speaker 1: sustain their home ranges. It's really the best way to

953
00:57:01,719 --> 00:57:05,200
Speaker 1: to to keep them around. It's like the whale shark.

954
00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:07,440
Speaker 1: It's like you're used to the ocean. How about this

955
00:57:07,640 --> 00:57:11,640
Speaker 1: large pool exactly. We've got a real problem with that.

956
00:57:11,640 --> 00:57:13,919
Speaker 1: That's another episode we did our zoos Good or Bad

957
00:57:13,960 --> 00:57:16,400
Speaker 1: for animals? Yeah, man, that was That was a good one.

958
00:57:16,680 --> 00:57:20,320
Speaker 1: I got one last thing which got so you remember

959
00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:22,520
Speaker 1: that that thing that went around It was like on

960
00:57:22,560 --> 00:57:26,120
Speaker 1: Twitter for a while it was, um, elephants, sea humans

961
00:57:26,920 --> 00:57:29,800
Speaker 1: and think we're cute the way that we see puppies

962
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:32,120
Speaker 1: and think they're cute. No, I don't remember that. Oh

963
00:57:32,200 --> 00:57:37,760
Speaker 1: it was huge, massive, totally made up. All right, Well

964
00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:41,800
Speaker 1: I'm glad I didn't see it. Yeah, Okay, well I

965
00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:46,560
Speaker 1: guess that's it. Thanks for bursting that bubble. I couldn't

966
00:57:46,600 --> 00:57:50,200
Speaker 1: just let that stay in No, of course not. Um. So, yeah,

967
00:57:50,240 --> 00:57:53,640
Speaker 1: there's a good Snopes article about that that's worth checking out. Um,

968
00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:57,080
Speaker 1: but that doesn't mean that they don't actually think we're cute.

969
00:57:57,280 --> 00:58:00,680
Speaker 1: It's just never been proven. How about that If you

970
00:58:00,680 --> 00:58:03,560
Speaker 1: want to know more about elephants, go learn more about elephants.

971
00:58:03,600 --> 00:58:05,800
Speaker 1: Are definitely worse things you could do with your time.

972
00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:10,800
Speaker 1: And since I said that it's listener mail time, I'm

973
00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:12,760
Speaker 1: gonna call this a bit of a Maya Kalpa. On

974
00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:17,800
Speaker 1: our Central Park episode, when we spoke about Robert Moses. UM,

975
00:58:17,840 --> 00:58:20,720
Speaker 1: I don't remember like saying this guy was the best

976
00:58:20,760 --> 00:58:23,680
Speaker 1: thing ever or anything, but there was a darker history

977
00:58:23,680 --> 00:58:25,640
Speaker 1: there that I we did not know about, and we'd

978
00:58:25,640 --> 00:58:28,520
Speaker 1: like to correct that. Yes, we heard from a few people.

979
00:58:28,600 --> 00:58:31,320
Speaker 1: He said, Uh, and this is from Joe Kennedy. He said,

980
00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:33,959
Speaker 1: if you do some deeper research on Robert Moses will

981
00:58:33,960 --> 00:58:36,240
Speaker 1: discovered the troubling and true effect he had and continues

982
00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:39,280
Speaker 1: to have on the racial and socio economic segregation and

983
00:58:39,320 --> 00:58:41,800
Speaker 1: trenched in our cities. I won't fled your email with

984
00:58:41,800 --> 00:58:44,400
Speaker 1: a book length argument, but many books and papers have

985
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:46,400
Speaker 1: been written on the topic, many of them mentioning Robert

986
00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:50,200
Speaker 1: Moses specifically. UM, I would ask that you take a

987
00:58:50,200 --> 00:58:53,919
Speaker 1: deeper dive into this particular character. Uh, if nothing else,

988
00:58:53,960 --> 00:58:55,960
Speaker 1: and for your own opinions and views of his effect

989
00:58:56,240 --> 00:58:59,320
Speaker 1: on our country and racial tensions that persist throughout I've

990
00:58:59,320 --> 00:59:01,760
Speaker 1: never written to a podcast or radio show or website

991
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:03,840
Speaker 1: of any kind, really, but I thought this is important

992
00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:06,080
Speaker 1: to point out because it's all too common that people

993
00:59:06,120 --> 00:59:09,200
Speaker 1: who have committed heinously racist and hateful ax in this

994
00:59:09,360 --> 00:59:12,040
Speaker 1: history of our country are excused on the basis of

995
00:59:12,040 --> 00:59:15,160
Speaker 1: being a product of their times, we're having done good elsewhere,

996
00:59:15,680 --> 00:59:20,000
Speaker 1: or whatever other excuses propped up to protect their character. Uh.

997
00:59:20,040 --> 00:59:21,920
Speaker 1: And listen, guys, I have listened to enough of your

998
00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:24,240
Speaker 1: shows to know that you were smart guys with broad,

999
00:59:24,360 --> 00:59:27,080
Speaker 1: educated worldviews. It seemed like you were morally good people.

1000
00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:29,920
Speaker 1: So I'm not suggesting anything other than a little more

1001
00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:33,280
Speaker 1: research on this specific character. Uh, just so you know

1002
00:59:33,320 --> 00:59:36,440
Speaker 1: for yourselves. Thanks for the show, guys, and your endless

1003
00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:40,080
Speaker 1: hours of entertainment and education. I truly enjoyed them. That

1004
00:59:40,160 --> 00:59:42,760
Speaker 1: is Joe Kennedy, And we heard from other people, but uh,

1005
00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:46,080
Speaker 1: we appreciate you bringing that to light fort sure. Yeah, thanks, Joe,

1006
00:59:46,120 --> 00:59:49,000
Speaker 1: appreciate and everybody who wrote in to say, uh, he's

1007
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:53,480
Speaker 1: actually a villain. Yeah, yeah, we just I And actually

1008
00:59:53,520 --> 00:59:56,640
Speaker 1: i'd heard about him before separately. I didn't connect the

1009
00:59:56,640 --> 00:59:59,040
Speaker 1: two and realize that that was the same guy. Yeah,

1010
00:59:59,240 --> 01:00:04,000
Speaker 1: we dropped the ball, Chuck. We'll try and do better everybody. Okay, uh, well,

1011
01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:05,560
Speaker 1: if you want to get in touch with us to

1012
01:00:05,600 --> 01:00:07,800
Speaker 1: tell us how we can do better, we always love

1013
01:00:07,880 --> 01:00:10,640
Speaker 1: to improve, So do that. Do it nicely, but do it.

1014
01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:13,520
Speaker 1: You can go to onto our website Stuff you Should

1015
01:00:13,560 --> 01:00:16,439
Speaker 1: Know dot com and check out our social links there.

1016
01:00:16,560 --> 01:00:19,120
Speaker 1: I have a website called the Josh Clark Way dot com.

1017
01:00:19,200 --> 01:00:21,200
Speaker 1: Check that out too, and you can send us an

1018
01:00:21,200 --> 01:00:29,800
Speaker 1: email to Stuff Podcast at how stuff Works dot com

1019
01:00:29,800 --> 01:00:32,240
Speaker 1: for more on this and thousands of other topics. Is

1020
01:00:32,280 --> 01:00:44,000
Speaker 1: it how stuff Works dot com.